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Squaring stock: Jointer Plane vs Foreplane

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18K views 42 replies 14 participants last post by  jmartel  
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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I am looking to start woodworking with hand tools exclusively. I have gotten very good with cutting mortises by hand over the last year. I can cut them almost perfectly square.

I want to be able to square my own rough stock without power machinery and am looking for hand planes. I have experience using only a no.4 plane for mostly small sections of work (smoothing).

When flattening a board's face by hand i have read your suppose to start with a foreplane to remove stock quickly,then move to a jointer-plane to get it nice and flatter. My question is can i get by with only 1 of them?

I figure the jointer-plane would give a flatter surface because its longer, but am not sure. I want to buy my planes new or in good condition used, and buying both would be too expensive. I want to get into all hand tool use not only because it seems very rewarding but because of my lack of space and money for a shop right now.
 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
The length of the plane is not the only factor that's important; how you sharpen the iron is just as important (if not more) to the job at hand. You want a jack (or fore) plane's iron to have a large camber, to remove stock quickly. The jointer (or try) plane's iron should have less camber, to flatten the board and remove the high spots left by the jack plane. Finally, the smoothing plane's iron should have little or no camber, to leave the smoothest surface. (It's like golf clubs; the longer ones not only have longer shafts, but the club face is also more vertical; with planes, the right length is important, but the shape of the cutting iron is just as important, if not more so).

Ian Kirby (I think) recommends buying a size 5 or 5 1/2 plane and several cutting irons. You would then sharpen each iron to perform the job required (thicknessing, flattening, or smoothing). You could use a size 6 plane, instead; and I've even heard that some old masters used a No. 7 for everything.

Here's a good article on how bench planes work together:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2-CoarseMediumFine.pdf
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
Also, if you don't mind doing a little work to tune them up, you can buy an old Stanley jointer for about $75, an old jack plane for about $35, and an old smoother for about $30 (these are eBay prices; you can pay more, but if you're patient, you should be able to buy at these prices); you might spend another $50 for something to remove rust, and a sandpaper-and-glass system to flatten the soles. It'll take a few hours to flatten and tune them up, but you'll have the right three planes and won't have to constantly worry about switching out irons on a single plane.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is the line-up I've been using the past couple of days to square up some stock

Image


That's a Stanley #5c, #7c, and #4 1/2 (#4 works too). In that order. I hit it on the diagonals with the #5 to roughly even it out, then I retract the iron a little and make a few passes lengthwise. After that I use the #7 lengthwise until I get a full shaving all the way down whatever I'm squaring up. Then I switch to the #4 1/2 to smooth it out, and or correct any twist that may be present.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
Coarse, medium and fine translates to jack, jointer and smoother. Or 5, 8 and 4. Go w/ pre-war Stanley planes and it won't have to break the bank. Most do not need lapping or evaporust baths. Just iron, chibbreaker and cap work and they're good to go. Good luck!
 
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#9 ·
Is there anyway to use a jointer-plane todo the work of a foreplane/ no. 5/6? different angle blade, etc?
I can only afford one and want to get something that works out the box (sharpening/honing is the only thing i want to do when i get it).

Also can a hand held Power plane substitute the foreplane for initial roughing?
 
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#10 ·
You can use a jointer to do the rough work, but you'll want an extra iron and you will probably need to play with the frog to get the type of cut you want. The extra iron will cost at least $20, so I would suggest getting a nice used Stanley #7 and a nice Stanley #6. IMHO, the extra $40 or so will be worth the time and aggravation saved. There are several of us here that sell planes and most of us would ship tools ready to work when you get them. If you buy a #7 of ebay, you will probably pay $80-100 and then you're going to need to clean it, tune it and work the iron. Then you'll need to buy the second iron. If you check with DonW or some of the other guys here (including me), you could probably get both planes for around $150. Whichever way you decide to go, don't forget about getting sharpening supplies. Also, you might want to check out the dvd's "Hand Plane Basics" and /or "Coarse, Medium, Fine". Both are by Chris Schwartz.
 
#15 ·
I just sold a decent #7 here for $70. It would have done what you wanted. I've got several #4, #5 and I think there's a Union #6 listed.

I hate changing blades. It drives me nuts, and I don't understand why people do it for the price of vintage stanley planes. That's my opinion, and we all work different, so I'm not judging others, I'm stating when I work, I want to grab a plane and use it.

Dave and others above gave some good advice. If you can only afford 1 veritas plane, then buy 3 vintage stanley's.
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
I think camber is important when a jack plane is used to reduce the thickness of a board. If you use a jack plane like a jointer or smoother, it probably doesn't matter.

When reducing the thickness of a board, you push the plane either straight across the grain or diagonally across it. The cambered iron works like a cross-cut saw, in that the edges of the iron sever the fibers of the wood rather than shearing them off. If you push a jack plane with a straight iron across a board, the iron will lift and tear the fibers rather than actually cutting them. A cambered iron, whether on a jack plane or a scrub plane, make a lot of sense for planing across the grain.

Camber on a jointer or a smoother helps too, but since these planes are usually pushed along the grain, the camber (or rounded corners) helps to reduce plane tracks rather than to cross-cut the fibers.
 
M
#17 ·
I have several planes & the one I find most useful & use the most is a LN #6.I find the #5 too light and the #7 too long for general use. I primarily work with Oak. I also prefer a high angle plane that you can adjust the depth of the cut on the fly as you start to plane, it's a matter of control.I also use a small amount of camber. You would be surprised at how fast you can true up a board across grain.
 
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#19 ·
Chris, a 7 does the same as an 8. The 8 is just bigger. I'm not sure what you mean by "cross grain work". If you're trying to dimension stock, you should be planing somewhat across the grain, as Brett described above. Personally, I go about 30 degrees across the grain when smoothing.
 
#22 ·
Chris

First from my experience there is a difference between making a board Flat or Square. There are specific planes for each one.

To make a long board flat you will need a Stanley or Equilient #7 or #8. For boards that are shorter ie less then 30" you can use a #5 or #6.

For making a Square shoulder or tennon you will need a Shoulder plane stanley #90, #92, or #93
These get into flat areas that need squaring.

Hope it helps
Arlin
 
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#23 ·
I am just looking for something to flatten faces of boards and straighten edges, thicknessing can be done with my lunchbox planer i have. Some of the stuff in this thread has confused me a little. Do i really need multiple planes for making boards true?

Could I buy a #7 and get away with just that for flattening faces and straightening edges ? (with a straight iron/no camber)

Thanks for all the help guys
 
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#25 ·
By flattening i meant "jointing", doing what a power jointer would do, face , and edges. That basically what i am trying to find a hand plane for.

I don't understand what resizing is, is is thicknessing ? I thought camber was for removing large amounts of wood in less time than a straight iron?
 
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