You might want to visit Paul Sellers site, about how he does this sort of thing...

My eyes just are not good enough for any teeth finer that 9 ppi...

Question ....do you have a saw vise?

As they tend to make things a bit easier...

whether is is a huge wentworths, or...

Something like this, that you can clamp just about anywhere..
"Leveling saw teeth" aka Jointing a saw...

 

I've watched Seller's video on basic sharpening a few times. Paul is a really good teacher and I've learned a lot from him when it comes to hand tools. To answer your question, I do not have a saw vise so my plan is to clamp the saw plate between a couple of appropriately sized boards and the hold the whole thing in my bench vise. I've used this approach on a couple of other saws and had good results. If I ever run across an actual saw vise, I'll snag it if I can justify the expense. Some of these things must be made of gold for the price some ask!

 

Yikes! These things can be cheap! I was just on eBay and see these things for $25. I think I'll get one!

 

I think you should hang it up on the wall and invest your money in a saw ready to use. There’s many great saw makers for woodworkers t9 choose from. Too many for us to ignore

 

I'd definitely sharpen that saw. No, you don't need to (or even want to) try any shortcuts to shaping the teeth, the secret is just using a sharp file of the correct size. With small teeth like that you can file them into shape very quickly. As Bandit said, do it exactly as Paul Sellers demonstrates and you'll get great results.

The only additional thing I do that really helps in seeing what you're doing and keeping track of where you are on small teeth like that is too color the tooth line at every step of the sharpening process with a big magic marker. This helps a ton. Filing removes the color so you are always sure which teeth you've done and which you haven't. It also makes it very clear when you've removed all the flat spots from jointing and you're done sharpening and your teeth are an even height. I do this on all saws and it makes it so much easier to get good results.

I don't know what the tooth count is on yours but I use the Lee Valley Bahco "needle" sized files for very small teeth like that. Check their helpful file size chart for what you need.

Keep us posted.

Jack

 

I see what you mean, but I believe thats aw can certainly be saved. Give this article a close read or two.

Welcome to Vintage Saw's Saw Filing Treatise

Also, watch this one:

These two have helped me immensely on learning to rehab and sharpend saw teeth. In the case of yours, it probably depends on how much time you're willing to invest. I essentially rehabbing a backdrop saw i similar condition to yours using these methods, but it took about four hours spread over a few days.

I leveled with a file until the tallest teeth were just nubs, and then recut them. Once that was done, I did it all over again, maybe a total of three full passes before the toothline was level. Then I spent another period of time refining and setting the teeth. It took a while but was fully worth it.

I made own saw vise, but probably would rather buy one than build another (or build a better one). I also use a magnifying visor so I can see the teeth, no matter their size. Worth every penny.

 

Thanks all.

I just got through making a saw vise and will watch Paul Sellers again before I start as well as the source RParker suggested. The first thing I'm going to do is get the correct files. My goal is to limit power tool use as much as possible and concentrate on hand tools. Therefore, learning to sharpen hand saws confidently and correctly will be of great benefit.

 

Glad to hear you're going to give it a go!

"learning to sharpen hand saws confidently and correctly will be of great benefit."

Absolutely. Sharp tools solve most of the problems folks run into initially learning to do hand tool work. Besides, even if you buy a shiny, brand new saw you'll need to sharpen it at some point and most saws you buy new will even benefit from a good sharpening before you use them the first time (just like chisels or planes or anything else).

Let us know how it goes!

Jack

 

I suggest you get a copy of “Set and File” from Lost Art Press. Excellent photos and saw filing text. Backsaws should be straight but if the teeth spacing is even, you can joint the saw in stages. If it’s messed up, you’ll be starting from scratch and the book covers that as well. Good luck!

 

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and info! I've ordered new files, mine are old and not really appropriate for the task at hand, and have already filed off the teeth to make a nice jointed plate. Once I've recut and sharpened the teeth, I'll post a pic with cutting results.

As an aside, I've been a woodworker for many years and mostly relied on power tools. Years ago, I took a dovetail class with Paul Sellers when he was still in Waco, TX. It was in this class that I learned what sharp truly meant and have been addicted to really sharp tools ever since. I bought a few Lie Neilsen saws a while back and have really enjoyed using them but as will all tools that are actually used, it's time to start looking at sharpening them .This has been the driving factor in wanting to rehab my old saw before I start messing with my expensive tools.

Again, thanks for all the input and I'll post results when I'm done.

 

The "User"Collection in my shop...

 

I'm not fully clear on file sizing. They're all equilateral triangles with 60 deg angles. So why does the size matter? Do smaller files have sharper corners?
I've kind of given up on saw sharpening, because my results are marginal at best, even when using the right size (as recommended by the file maker) file, angle, etc. Mr. Sellers would be disappointed in me.

 

Yes, smaller files have finer, sharper corners which matter more on smaller saw teeth. But the real difference in size for saw sharpening is because sharpening the teeth wears (dulls) two faces of the file at once so you want the file to be sized so that the full depth of the saw tooth you’re sharpening reaches less than half way up either face of the file. That way, when you turn the file to sharpen with the other two corners you’ll be sharpening with file teeth that are fresh and haven’t been worn yet.

“I've kind of given up on saw sharpening, because my results are marginal at best”

Saw sharpening, like any other skill takes a little practice. Go to Goodwill or a garage sale and get a really junk saw that you don’t care about and practice on it. It usually only takes a few times to get good enough results to encourage you to keep trying.


Jack

 

Yes, files have corresponding lyrics different corners - smaller files for smaller teeth but still rounded enough to retain the gullet between teeth. You basically want a file where the tooth depth is not quite halfway up the side of the file. That way, when you wear out one corner, the teeth are only worn partway up the sides. When you can turn the file to get a fresh corner, you'll still have fresh teeth on the part that is now cutting into the gullet. If my file is less than half that depth, then I'll always be wearing into the section that would have been useful when you turn the file to a fresh corner.

For example, if the depth a a saw tooth is 3/16" (an arbitrary depth), I'd want a file a where any of the sides is at least 3/8" or more wide (maybe 7/16" or so).

Does that make sense?