# What are the odds?



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Over the years there have been a few posts on here reminding us all to unplug when changing blades, bits, etc. Yesterday I was changing the bit in my router table and remembered I hadn't unplugged. I started to think about that thought. In ten plus years of woodworking I have never, ever had a piece of equipment turn itself on. Never…ever. I'm betting we have a better chance of being hit by lightning or dying in an auto accident than losing a finger or two in a machine that has magically turned itself on. Not only turned itself on but right at the moment we are changing a blade or bit. Should we quit dancing in the rain or driving to the store? What are the odds? Let's hear from the Safety Sallys out there…


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

What are the odds it turns itself on if it's unplugged? Whatever, they're your fingers.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

I have never had a piece of equipment magically turn itself on, but I have had a switch failure that failed in the on position. Reached down and flipped the switch on my old Delta contractor saw to off and it kept on running. Flipped the switch back and forth and it just kept running like the Energizer Bunny. I can well imagine a switch that is about to fail like that being bumped as you change the blade and all of a sudden the saw is on.

Do I always unplug? No. Should I always unplug? I believe so.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

The odds are very slim, but the consequences are severe, so it's your call.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

What are the odds of getting hit by a car, crossing the street? Better not cross. Better not fly, or eat oysters, or enjoy a fine cigar, either…


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## Nicky (Mar 13, 2007)

Not sure where you may be going with this but…

I don't worry about equipment "magically turning on"

We had our grandson over for the weekend. I was sanding and did not hear him come in my shop. I did hear him turn on the band saw. No one hurt. Shop is not baby proofed. Maybe just another reason for it being a good practice.

I've never heard of an accident discussed in terms of it being smart or unavoidable.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

> What are the odds it turns itself on if it s unplugged? Whatever, they re your fingers.
> 
> - nailbanger2


Probably about the same…


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

> What are the odds of getting hit by a car, crossing the street? Better not cross. Better not fly, or eat oysters, or enjoy a fine cigar, either…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I agree…


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## RichardHillius (Oct 19, 2013)

> What are the odds of getting hit by a car, crossing the street? Better not cross. Better not fly, or eat oysters, or enjoy a fine cigar, either…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


The odds of getting hit crossing a street blind at a jog without slowing down are a lot higher than if you look both ways before you run out into traffic. They are your fingers and you can do what you want but for me the couple seconds it takes to unplug a machine doesn't seem like a big deal given the risk if lightening does decide to strike that one time and you bump into that switch just right to turn it on.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I think it depends on the machine, A router bit change no, but a bandsaw might be a different story, after saying that I'm going to continue playing it safe.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I can count the number of times that one of my machines has accidentally started on one hand - oh, wait, make that two hands.


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## upinflames (Jun 24, 2012)

I think the odds are astronomical, in both my shops the large machines are hard wired, the smaller stuff is plugged in. In 37 years, not a single machine has " magically turned on" by itself or "accidentally hit the switch".

If you're worried about hitting the switch accidentally it may be time to rethink where it's mounted….but then again, I did not stay at the holiday inn last night…....


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

What are the odds? Probably better than one outta 10 … 
.
.
.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

> What are the odds? Probably better than one outta 10 …
> .
> .
> .
> ...


Someone has to hit the jackpot.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

Yeah, Buddy! High Five!!! Wait, I mean … 
.
.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Bottom line,... "you got to asked yourself, Do ya feel lucky punk. Well do ya."

Or as another cultural Icon once said , "stupid is as stupid does."

It only takes an extra second or 3 to do it right.


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## Gixxerjoe04 (Jan 31, 2014)

My craftsman router table has the switch in a bad spot, it has been switch on when reaching under to put the wrench on it to change bits, of course I had it unplugged. But dang if I hadn't, would have been missing some skin.


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## mudflap4869 (May 28, 2014)

Do whatever feels right to YOU. It's no fingers off my hand. As for me I would rather feel safe than stupid. I saw my dads hand and my brothers after they had tried to work on saws that were still plugged in. They both admitted that they were stupid to think that they imfalable.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I think the risk is associated with an unexpected event rather than a spontaneous turn on.

Something like a curious person wondering about a power switch…

Seems more plausible - still a question of odds though…


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

about 30years ago i entered my shop early one morning to find one of our saws running. It was a delta cont. saw.

The single pole switch was in the off position. I can't explain it but i have never forgot it.

Things do happen.

Machinery that have magnetic switch gear? ......Probably could not happen based on theory.

It is a very rare thing that i unplug machines to change blades

I have to admit it would be good practice to unplug, especially in a teaching environment,,,,,but lets face it, its harder to bend over and unplug than it is just to change the blade.

Again, i do unplug in rare situations, depends on what I'm doing and how long I'm gonna be doing it.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

> Yeah, Buddy! High Five!!! Wait, I mean …
> .
> .
> 
> ...


Joe, when was the last time you took your ring off?


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

> Bottom line,...
> 
> It only takes an extra second or 3 to do it right.
> 
> - BurlyBob


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## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

I was using the shaper at work for only the second time. I was reaching underneath to put the locking pin in place so I could remove the nut and blades/bits on top. Somehow, it turned on. I must have hit the switch, but I still don't know how, since one of my hands was under/inside the machine and the other was on top (near the bit of course). No harm done so I got lucky. It sucked to know that I didn't get injured just because I was lucky not to have my fingers one inch further back on the top of the table or have my other hand a little further back inside the table. I don't like just being lucky. I like to have a little more control than that. At home, I unplug my tools. At work that's not an option with most of the tools due to the way they are wired in. Yeah, I know I did something stupid and hit the button with my knee, elbow, or something and it didn't just turn on by itself. The odds against a machine turning on by itself are so high and the odds of it turning on by itself while my hands are on it are even higher, so I agree that's out of the question and not what happened. I still think if unplugging something is an option, I will do it, because I can make mistakes and if I can protect myself from my own stupidity that easily, then why not?


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

The odds that your saw out of millions of saws turns on without any help from you, AND right when you're changing a blade must be something like a trillion, trillion, trillion to one. I'll take those odds…


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## Daruc (Apr 20, 2015)

Probably about the same as your microwave exploding while you are looking through the window watching your food cook, but how many of you do that?
Probably about the same as your pilot crashing the airplane your on because he's drunk, but how many of you meet the pilot first to see?
Probably not as high as texting while driving and getting in a crash , but how many of you still do.

Point is there are lots of dangerous things we do, and never worry about the odds, you can only worry about the things you choose to worry about. Pick your poison!
I honestly don't worry about my table saw, 
but I do unplug my router. That's just to easy to accidentally hit the switch.


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## Luthierman (Jun 4, 2015)

This thread makes me want to have a lock out option like they do in factories, as it is a P.I.T.A for me to unplug some of my tools. Some are located against a wall with loads of crap around them that would have to be moved every time. I need a disconnect before the switch and after the plug.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Switches fail open. Switches fail closed. Rarely does it fail in the middle.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

just from reading the above posts, the odds adds up to quite a bit higher than a trillion, trillion, trillion to one…

but it is hard to unplug…. so who cares about odds anyways…


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

The odds of magical starts are probably zero to none as magic is simply deception.

But, all man made devices fail eventually. Why take the risk? Do you change the lawn mower blade with the spark plug wire attached too?


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

August 2013 It dosent necessarly need power!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Protecting ourselves from ourselves …...

Nowadays the mindset of both government and society is "safety and security", and for some, its "whatever it takes". And often its taken to extremes to bring the risk to zero.

Thank God I'm still free to buy a non-SawStop, to ride around without seatbelts, and to not unplug my machines.

Anybody is free to unplug their machine and eliminate the 1/1,000,000 or whatever chance it will spontaneously turn on.

So lets talk risk factors. For those who do unplug, do you also forego the bacon cheeseburger for lunch?, or shun the Krispy Kreme for breakfast?


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Interesting responses which cover the full spectrum from unplug to the chances are so remote who cares.

I spent a lifetime working in a heavy equipment environment. The rules were simple…"Lock Out…Tag Out". Before you worked on any equipment, it was locked out by turning the power out and locking it in the off position. Also, you had to tag the lock with your name so others would know who had locked it out.

It was amazing how many people thought it was too much effort to lock equipment out. In addition to the safety issue, not locking out was subject to severe disciplinary action.

At home, everyone makes their own choices. "Do you feel lucky today…....."


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

OK…..I would not rather pull the plug many times for my router. I looked and you can get outlet switches or one can use a power strip. Do you think this is just as good as unplugging?

As an edit…....after reading this, I just ordered a lighted switch outlet power strip made by Woods. This will make it easy to shut power off with a light to confirm it is off.

I like the odds in my favor.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

My brother-in-law's mail carrier's cousin's boss won the lottery and used some of the money to build a woodworking shop. One Friday the 13th, he was unplugging his table saw. At that instant, the shop was simultaneously struck by lightning and hit by a falling piece of space junk. He was startled and tripped over his black cat. Sadly, he fell against a wall and a protruding nail entered his brain via his eye socket.

This is why I never unplug anything.


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## yvrdennis (Jun 14, 2015)

My wife once leaned on my table saw and it started by itself. I contacted the manufacturer and they quickly sent me a replacement for the on/off switch. They thought it was dodgy and the vibration of her touching the saw was enough to start it. Since then I have been pretty careful to unplug before putting my fingers in harm's way.

Oh, and I do eat hamburgers, but I have never understood donuts for breakfast. ;-)


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Let me put it to you this way…the odds of a saw starting by itself when you are changing a blade are smaller than a troll daring to post on this site while sheriff JeffP is on the job. : )


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I don't unplug, I add another interrupt switch in the path, a double switch by way of power strip.


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## InstantSiv (Jan 12, 2014)

Better safe than sorry.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

It's not going to happen magically, but there are a couple plausible ways already mentioned such as a curious kid, bumping the switch, or switch failure. All electrical components eventually fail.

Basics of risk management are avoid the risks that are easily avoidable and particularly those that are high loss if they occur. This fits that situation perfectly. You're not missing out on anything but about 30 seconds or less to unplug it, and the potential costs of failure are high. It's not like you have to give up something valuable to unplug it like giving up woodworking. That would be a choice most of us wouldn't make in order to avoid the risk, but unplugging is so minimal. But really there's no need to debate it, do what you want to. Don't feel like unplugging it, then don't.



> What are the odds of getting hit by a car, crossing the street? Better not cross. Better not fly, or eat oysters, or enjoy a fine cigar, either…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


You can't avoid any of those risks without giving up enjoying the thing as well. In this case you can avoid the risk and still use the machine to make whatever you want.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

30+ years around woodworking machines, I've never known of one to turn on by itself. In the same time I've never heard anyone volunteer that they know of a machine turning on by itself. But if you bring up the subject, suddenly dozens of people have witnessed it. I'm pretty sure those same people have all witnessed a sawdust pile spontaneously combust, a dust collector explode, and have an aunt or uncle in Canada that had died waiting in line for socialized medicine.

edit; this reminds me of a This Old House episode where the landscape guy is showing how to sharpen a mower blade. Step 1, he says, is to pull the spark plug wire to ensure the mower doesn't start up. Yeah, another way to ensure the mower doesn't start is to not yank the starter rope.


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## UpstateNYdude (Dec 20, 2012)

> Over the years there have been a few posts on here reminding us all to unplug when changing blades, bits, etc. Yesterday I was changing the bit in my router table and remembered I hadn t unplugged. I started to think about that thought. In ten plus years of woodworking I have never, ever had a piece of equipment turn itself on. Never…ever. I m betting we have a better chance of being hit by lightning or dying in an auto accident than losing a finger or two in a machine that has magically turned itself on. Not only turned itself on but right at the moment we are changing a blade or bit. Should we quit dancing in the rain or driving to the store? What are the odds? Let s hear from the Safety Sallys out there…
> 
> - DKV


"Hi I'm a troll, feed me your annoyance and sadness for my own stupidity"

That's all I got from this thread.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> Interesting responses which cover the full spectrum from unplug to the chances are so remote who cares.
> 
> I spent a lifetime working in a heavy equipment environment. The rules were simple…"Lock Out…Tag Out". Before you worked on any equipment, it was locked out by turning the power out and locking it in the off position. Also, you had to tag the lock with your name so others would know who had locked it out.
> 
> ...


If I am working on anything electrical on my own house, I trip the associated breaker and lock the service panel closed. I have had a family member flip a breaker on once, in spite of being told that I was working on the wiring (changing an outlet). Fortunately, it was after I was finished. A little scolding ensued, and my process upgraded.

As far as equipment "turning itself on", I don't have that concern in my shop. Anything I work on is unplugged before I start, except the drill press. That has a guarded switch that requires reaching in to flip the switch. Of course, all my equipment is portable, so they have plugs, unlike some built in equipment. If I ever get to that point, there will be a disconnect above any stationary machine.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

> Interesting responses which cover the full spectrum from unplug to the chances are so remote who cares.
> 
> I spent a lifetime working in a heavy equipment environment. The rules were simple…"Lock Out…Tag Out". Before you worked on any equipment, it was locked out by turning the power out and locking it in the off position. Also, you had to tag the lock with your name so others would know who had locked it out.
> 
> ...


You will die a most boring life…


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

> Over the years there have been a few posts on here reminding us all to unplug when changing blades, bits, etc. Yesterday I was changing the bit in my router table and remembered I hadn t unplugged. I started to think about that thought. In ten plus years of woodworking I have never, ever had a piece of equipment turn itself on. Never…ever. I m betting we have a better chance of being hit by lightning or dying in an auto accident than losing a finger or two in a machine that has magically turned itself on. Not only turned itself on but right at the moment we are changing a blade or bit. Should we quit dancing in the rain or driving to the store? What are the odds? Let s hear from the Safety Sallys out there…
> 
> - DKV
> 
> ...


Upstate, it is impossible that you are a troll. JeffP got rid of them all…


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

DKV. ...not likely that I will live a boring life….it certainly hasn't been so far.

I saw first hand what happens with the failure to lock out…you may call it boring but seeing someone who just smashed there fingers or lost a finger due to not locking out is anything but boring. In the plant which I worked people lost their loves due to not locking out. Bad accidents happen when people do not lock out where I worked.

Perhaps people getting injured is boring to you…...

Even though this is a DKV thread, the issue of safety is important and a reminder no matter how it is presented is worthwhile.

Everyone is free to do as they please in their own shops, I wish you the best and hope that no one gets injured.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

> So lets talk risk factors. For those who do unplug, do you also forego the bacon cheeseburger for lunch?, or shun the Krispy Kreme for breakfast?
> 
> - rwe2156


Certainly


> edit; this reminds me of a This Old House episode where the landscape guy is showing how to sharpen a mower blade. Step 1, he says, is to pull the spark plug wire to ensure the mower doesn t start up. Yeah, another way to ensure the mower doesn t start is to not yank the starter rope.
> 
> - Rick M.


You can either pull the starter rope or spin the blade. They work equally well, using the rope is a little easier on the hand and fingers ;-)


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Rob. That's a good lookin piece of sausage you have there. Though I don't recommend setting it in dusty areas before the next bite.

I fix switches, contacts, contactors, relays, starters etc all the time. Not too worried.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Arr Gee you spotted a fake !

Well done I will send you my personal copy of Teds CD of plans, as it seems DKV is not intersted in them.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

I thought it was a carrot.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

DKV, has anyone ever seen a router turn on by itself if it is unplugged. That's a perfect batting average. How long does it take to unplug a router? Why not play it safe?

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Hendrik (Sep 20, 2008)

There was a time when I didn't unplug machines for blade and bit changes. Then one day I was doing something in my workshop and my table saw turned on by itself! I wasn't doing anything on the saw, but it sure made me think about all the blade changes with the saw still plugged in, as well as often rotating the blade with my fingers to line a tooth up to a cut line. It turns out the switch was faulty.

After that, I started unplugging for all blade changes. I also installed a receptacle for the saw directly on the saw cabinet so that I don't have to walk anywhere to unplug it. So it's literally 2 seconds to unplug.

I'm sure the odds are super slim, but my personal experience made me change my practices. Anyone can win the lottery once in a lifetime.

Hendrik
Passion for Wood


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## Goatlocker (Dec 31, 2012)

It is not always about something turning on magically. It is about that off chance that you bump the start switch or something else hits it. It is just good practice to remove the chance of it happening. I can understand your point with the odds of something magically turning on but I know for myself that I am not willing to take the chance. Your hands …...your choice…..


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I have to hit mine with a hammer to get it to run.
Sometimes when it stops if I forget to turn the switch off, it will "magically" start again.

DKV there's a reason for everything.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

I unplug the the power tool when I know my fingers will be uncomfortably too close to the blade, it just makes me sort of feel mentally safe.


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

I ALWAYS unplug! ALWAYS! When it comes to power tools, can we be TOO safe? Remember, Mr. Murphy likes to help out from time to time. Another note, not a saw but my DeWalt sander turned itself on once. I just finished sanding a piece and sat it down. About a moment later it started dancing on my work bench.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

What is the cost to unplug?

If it is inconvenient to do so, it might be time to do a little reconfiguration of your shop setup.


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

When I change bits in my router table, I actually have TWO switches that are turned off - the one in the router itself and the one on the plug - so sometimes I don't unplug it.

I always unplug the table saw when changing blades but not when I'm just shifting from the riving knife to the dust collecting blade guard (on the sawstop that change is tool-free and fast). I still keep fingers and parts away from the blade for those few seconds, though, because with my luck the blade will start spinning the one time I don't.

For those who don't unplug when changing blades, have you ever considered adding a second power switch near the saw to get some extra safety without slowing down the blade change? If the odds were 1 in a million for a single switch failure they'd be one in a trillion with two.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

As I've said before lads…I've been trying to be more careful. I've got a grandson coming up. I dread the odd accident and am taking efforts to ensure his safety. pretty much everything in thing he could touch in the way of power tools, will be shut off at the power box. so far I've only got one grand son and one great grand son. I what to love them both and be someone that they remember fondly.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

When I worked full time in a shop the saws were hardwired. I got used to it. And I didnt search out a small shank dia lock to lock the switch out. Throw the breaker?-that could take out multiple machines thus production drops thus I am looking for another job. I dont think so.

Router?-maybe but only because My hands are near the switch while I am turning the wrenches.

I dont think the question here is as much about the machine turning on magically in as much as one hitting the go switch accidentally.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

In a one man shop, the issue is not as great. Where you have more than one, I was taught (drilled into everyone), "Lock Out….Tag Out". Failure to follow this could lead to firing.

In your own shop, it is up to you how you want to handle it. After this thread started, I put a switch in line with my router table and my saw has a switch beside the normal on off switch.

Maybe a bit paranoid but makes me more comfortable.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

The interesting thing that I seem to be missing--

When you change the bit, you lock the chuck - or you are not going to loosen the nut. At this point, your fingers are not there. Once the chuck is locked and the motor is turned on - you fry the windings. Now don't get me wrong, you have have a nasty fire in this case but the overload should trip. If the lock doesn't hold the motor, this may be a product safety issue that you need to address - and not a router that I want in my shop.

I have accidentally turned on the router (remote switch) when I was not ready for it to be on but I was not changing the bit.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> The interesting thing that I seem to be missing--
> 
> When you change the bit, you lock the chuck - or you are not going to loosen the nut. At this point, your fingers are not there. Once the chuck is locked and the motor is turned on - you fry the windings. Now don t get me wrong, you have have a nasty fire in this case but the overload should trip. If the lock doesn t hold the motor, this may be a product safety issue that you need to address - and not a router that I want in my shop.
> 
> ...


That is interesting, I never thought the lock was to hold back the motor, just my using the wrench. I think I would prefer it broke off and could be replaced over it burning out the motor.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

^^ For that reason many more expensive, full sized routers have no spindle lock, only two identical wrenches, one to hold the spindle and one to loosen or tighten the collet.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

> The interesting thing that I seem to be missing--
> 
> When you change the bit, you lock the chuck - or you are not going to loosen the nut. At this point, your fingers are not there. Once the chuck is locked and the motor is turned on - you fry the windings. Now don t get me wrong, you have have a nasty fire in this case but the overload should trip. If the lock doesn t hold the motor, this may be a product safety issue that you need to address - and not a router that I want in my shop.
> 
> ...


Any lock that would shear off when a motor started from a static position would shear off under the force of changing the bit.


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## jobewan (Sep 22, 2015)

What if lightening should hit the house, travel through your infrastructure, down the plug into the router, arc out and fry you? Ever think of that? Probably not! I always check the weather before every bit change. Never know.

Like anything - its a habit. If you create good habits and have a focus on safety, which unplugging any device before you work on it should entail, then you have a leg up on keeping all of your appendages. I know it is "just a couple of seconds" but that is not the point. It keeps safety in your mind, and might cause you to think twice before you do something else that is much more dangerous. Just my very inexpensive perspective.

JB


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

What if lightening should hit the house, travel through your infrastructure, down the plug into the router, arc out and fry you? Ever think of that? Probably not! I always check the weather before every bit change. Never know.


> - jobewan


It happens more often that you think. It's happened to me twice. Both time I survived without any permanent damage.


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## Dave10 (May 29, 2012)

I get nicked enough by tools that aren't electric. Happily the plug is easily within reach when I have to change the bit in my router or table saw. My bandsaw plugs into a power strip and I turn it off as well as the tool switch. I do take my chances a bit with the drill press, trusting the tool switch alone.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I have kids in my shop. (Especially a 3-year-old.) Everything is either locked or unplugged or both. If it's on an extension cord, I unplug both ends! I don't use my power jointer anymore because my 3-year-old keeps turning the outfeed handwheel and it's a pain to get the outfeed table back co-planar with the blades. If I ever get it right again, I'm going to remove the handwheel, but I digress…

... and I unplug when I change blades or bits - except the drill-press. Well, I also don't take the battery pack off the cordless drill before changing bits, but that would be easy. Maybe I should.

-Paul


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

> ... and I unplug when I change blades or bits - except the drill-press. Well, I also don t take the battery pack off the cordless drill before changing bits, but that would be easy. Maybe I should.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


Naw ;-) I use the drill's power to tighten and loosen the keyless chuck. Works great.


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## newwoodbutcher (Aug 6, 2010)

In my shop that would be a lot of unplugging and re-plugging. This practice would soon fall by the wayside.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Takes half a second to unplug something. A trip to the E.R. from my house is half an hour.


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## gsimon (Aug 12, 2012)

my barber was wiring a stove vent for his tenant and the kid came in and turned on the switch out of habit and my barber was electrocuted on his forehead. He's alright but the event was not totally in his control
I always unplug because at times i go on autopilot too
cheers
greg


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

> Naw ;-) I use the drill s power to tighten and loosen the keyless chuck. Works great.
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor


I do the same.


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## splatman (Jul 27, 2014)

I did not know a router could be turned on with the spindle locked. My Ryobi router, with the spindle lock engaged, will not turn on at all.

Also, said router is plugged in only when I use it, because it draws 1 watt in standby. Found out one day 1/2-decade ago, when I touched it, it was warm, so I plugged it into my Kill-A-Watt, and it registered 1 watt.

Do I unplug my TS when changing blades? Probably sometimes. Cannot remember if I did last time. My TS has a switch that you have to pull to turn on. Bumping it will only turn it off. Unless it gets snagged somehow.

I'm with Ocelot when it comes to changing drill bits.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I installed switches for the equipment. The blower has to be on before the table saw will work. If the tablesaw switch is on when you turn on the blower, the breaker trips. I could change this but it is a nice fail safe. The router is in a table that I made and is plugged into a switched receptacle on the side. It is easy to unplug and plug in. When the switch is off, it is off.


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## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

> My brother-in-law s mail carrier s cousin s boss won the lottery and used some of the money to build a woodworking shop. One Friday the 13th, he was unplugging his table saw. At that instant, the shop was simultaneously struck by lightning and hit by a falling piece of space junk. He was startled and tripped over his black cat. Sadly, he fell against a wall and a protruding nail entered his brain via his eye socket.
> 
> This is why I never unplug anything.
> 
> - ChuckV


What did he expect, what kind of idiot leaves a protruding nail at head height?


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## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

If the odds of the machine shorting and turning itself on / you knocking the switch on are the same as winning the lottery remember that some idiot wins the lottery nearly every week.

I'd probably last about 5 mins with power tools without losing something important, cut myself on a dinky mini hand plane last week, damn thing is only about 3inch long.


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## Dave10 (May 29, 2012)

> What did he expect, what kind of idiot leaves a protruding nail at head height?
> 
> - MikeB_UK


Maybe the protruding nail was where he hung his safety glasses.


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## HornedWoodwork (Jan 28, 2015)

Like lots of unexamined advice this one makes all the sense in the world until you really think about what could actually go wrong. Machines simply do not magically turn on. You shouldn't really flaunt this advice however because it costs you almost nothing to head it and it costs you so much if it proves true. Machines don't turn themselves on, but you can brush the power button just right and fire one up at the wrong time.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

There is proof otherwise - there is a case where a certain model of microwave oven would actually come on by itself and actually catch fire. This was recalled.


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## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

> What are the odds it turns itself on if it s unplugged? Whatever, they re your fingers.
> 
> - nailbanger2


I couldn't have said it better!


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> ... and I unplug when I change blades or bits - except the drill-press. Well, I also don t take the battery pack off the cordless drill before changing bits, but that would be easy. Maybe I should.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> ...


Yup.

However, there are documented reports of toasters and microwave ovens turning on and/or catching fire after a lighting strike. If people want to ignore a possibility, they are welcome to do so. The problem is that there is this macho set in the population who just want to prove how manly they are, while risking those around them either by testosterone or ignorance, or a combination thereof. You know who you are. ;^)


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

I do not want to find out


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

> ... and I unplug when I change blades or bits - except the drill-press. Well, I also don t take the battery pack off the cordless drill before changing bits, but that would be easy. Maybe I should.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> ...


Aw come on now, you don't need to be in the hyper testosteroned macho crowd to hold the chuck of a battery drill under power when changing bits, do you? Nearly everyone is doing it on most construction sites ;-)


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Ha ha. Someone who was electrocuted cannot, by very definition, be "alright" afterwards. LOL.

This conversation has been stuck in my head for a while. Not sure why. It just seems so hypocritical to me how people have jumped on the OP For being stupid yet…

Who unplugs a drill press when changing a bit?
Who unplugs a lathe when chucking a blank?
Who unplugs the bandsaw when changing a blade? Ok, that was a joke.
Do you unplug a corded drill when changing bits?

Drills have tremendous torque and could do serious damage if turned on with a key in the chuck. What if the lathe turned on while you were cranking away with the chuck key?

I don't unplugs the ts when changing a blade and I definitely don't need someone telling me I'm stupid because of it.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

What exactly is so difficult about unplugging something? If you have ever lost a finger you would bet your ass that you would rather take a couple seconds to unplug something instead of putting up with the phantom throbbing of your missing fingers.

My grandfather lost two fingers in a joiner accident about 1980, brought the fingers up to the house, my grandmother got stick and he had to drive her and himself to the hospital. It really didn't bother him too much until that night when they started throbbing where the skin was ironed over his stumps and held in place by some pretty stout rubber bands like banded sausages.

Who would have thought a cell phone could turn on an oven? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ring-of-fire-cell-phone-turns-on-oven/


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

So,mare you saying that you'd unplug a lathe when tightening a chuck? You seriously would unplug a drill press when changing a bit? You're honestly telling me that when switching a corded drill between a counter sink and the drill bit, back and forth, you unplug it every time? Not buying it.


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

> So,mare you saying that you d unplug a lathe when tightening a chuck? You seriously would unplug a drill press when changing a bit? You re honestly telling me that when switching a corded drill between a counter sink and the drill bit, back and forth, you unplug it every time? Not buying it.
> 
> - toddbeaulieu


I would say a drill is a bit safer because they are not an on/off but a variable speed switch. The key for my drill press is made so that it pops out as soon as you release pressure from it via a spring loaded plunger.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

You've made your personal assessments and safety decisions, I accept that. It's your choice. Would you be willing to hold the chuck key in while I turn on the machine? Of course you wouldn't. I get more sawdust in my eyes in the shower than any place else. It's unreal. When I rinse my head after a long day it's unreal how often something washes right down in my eye. I should wear goggles in the shower. But I don't, I take the risk.


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

I've seen a table saw turn on by itself when I was using it as a workbench. It was a 50 year old saw with a bad switch.
Prior to that, I never unplugged the saw or router.
Since then, I always do.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

I did install a foot switch in my router table and love the two stage turn on. Admittedly I'd use the same setup for all my large machines if I could.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think the thread is a word of caution and take it however you want.

After reading this thread quite awhile ago, I looked around my shop and made one change to my router table. I put in a box with a switch above it and the switch has a light in it to tell you when it is on. It is very easy to flip the switch when changing a bit. Is it necessary? no…is likely it would come on by itself…probably not…am I a little nuts…yes.

After working in the steel mill for many years I still hear someone telling me LOCK OUT…TAG OUT.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Back about eighty, my four year old son cured himself of touching switches in my shop. My belt sander was sitting on top of a surface and he reached up and pulled the trigger. It took off, pulled from his hand and ran off the surface in a flash. From the looks of things, it was his first heart attack. He survived it (so did the sander) and never touched a switch, without permission, again.



> Not sure where you may be going with this but…
> 
> I don t worry about equipment "magically turning on"
> 
> ...


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Climbing a ladder to a ceiling plug doesn't seem practical to me. Neither does adding an extension cord (120 or 240) to be able to do so. Add to that, I've been in many a factory with equipment which is hard wired. In short, it isn't always an option.

Just sayin.



> What exactly is so difficult about unplugging something? If you have ever lost a finger you would bet your ass that you would rather take a couple seconds to unplug something instead of putting up with the phantom throbbing of your missing fingers.
> 
> My grandfather lost two fingers in a joiner accident about 1980, brought the fingers up to the house, my grandmother got stick and he had to drive her and himself to the hospital. It really didn t bother him too much until that night when they started throbbing where the skin was ironed over his stumps and held in place by some pretty stout rubber bands like banded sausages.
> 
> ...


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Murphy's Law always in present. I saw a sign in an office: Compared to me, Murphy was an optimist.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> ... and I unplug when I change blades or bits - except the drill-press. Well, I also don t take the battery pack off the cordless drill before changing bits, but that would be easy. Maybe I should.
> 
> -Paul
> 
> ...


I do that. Doesn't cojones grandes for that.


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

Don't be working on a machine with a magnetic start when North Korea or Russia pulls the trigger on a Nuke , The resulting EMP just might start the machine. Not Magic but it could happen.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Russia isn't that stupid and North Korea's highly improbable.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Isn't that the opposite of the desired effect of an EMF attack?



> Don t be working on a machine with a magnetic start when North Korea or Russia pulls the trigger on a Nuke , The resulting EMP just might start the machine. Not Magic but it could happen.
> 
> - Richard


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## zzzzdoc (Mar 6, 2010)

My house has been hit by lightning 5 times.

Personally, I unplug…


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

*+1 Hendrik*

Thanks for the idea of making the receptacle on the saw itself. Mine is across the wall and I do unplug it but it makes better sense to have it closer.


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## Hendrik (Sep 20, 2008)

You're welcome, woodbutcherbynight. It sure makes life easier, as I must unplug my table saw at least 5 or 6 times per day-sometimes more.

Merry Christmas,

Hendrik


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## KellyB (Mar 1, 2015)

> Takes half a second to unplug something. A trip to the E.R. from my house is half an hour.
> 
> - dhazelton


Yep. And then there's trying to work with all the splints, bandages, stitches, etc. Something about an ounce of prevention. And the irritating repetitive chant in the back of the mind, "If only I had listened…"

It is a small thing which can save a lot of heartache…and handache, given it's still attached.


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## martyoc (Nov 21, 2015)

When the grandkids are in the shop "helping" me I either unplug equipment or throw the breakers. They like using some of the hand tools, especially planes, and I don't want to discourage their interest. But I won't risk an injury to them when they flip a switch to see what happens - kids are curious. Otherwise I leave them plugged while I change blades, bits, etc.


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## KWood75 (Dec 2, 2015)

I've been struck by lightning once but I haven't had a power tool turn itself on yet.

I did almost get bit by a miter saw a few years ago. I unplugged it to move it but got distracted for a few seconds. I picked up the miter saw with the guard resting on my leg. My finger hit the trigger and it turned on. I look over and my 3 year old son had somehow got in the garage without me noticing and plugged it back in! Luckily, the guard did its job and I wasn't cut.

I always unplug saws, routers and anything else with a spinning device attached that can do damage.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

My router table has a switch that I have turned on by accident. That is the only tool in my shop that gets unplugged every time. The bandsaw gets unplugged when changing blades but that is about it. Table saw never. Jointer never. Planer only when changing/flipping blades.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Jack, look into a foot switch for the table. I have a paddle switch and a foot switch and LOVE that setup.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Hand tool shop….what is there to unplug?


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

You really should flip the breaker when you replace an overhead bulb. Don't take the risk.


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## Mustang67 (Feb 22, 2014)

Yeah, I unplug my power equipment when changing blades, or bits. But I also cross the street and fly and eat oysters. Why when there's a risk? Because there's a reward. I get where I want to go or enjoy a meal. But I don't consider the second I save by not unplugging enough of a reward no matter how low the risk. So, I'll continue to unplug. Don't think that'll make my life boring, but if it earns me Safety Sally, then so be it.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

To all, it is your time, to spend it as you like. Routers scare the poop out of me. I have worked with power tools since high school, as a hands on G contractor/builder and in my shop, never a stitch or loss of anything, and yes I have made some compromising cuts. At 63, I still unplug when changing blades/bits, drill press I do not. 
I did a stupid thing on my B day 2.5 years ago, nothing to do with machinery, but I knew better, and it bit me in the rear, spent the next 3 hours in the ER and many trips to the infectious wound center for the next 3 months once a week. About 3 hours out of my retirement time each trip and kept me tied up from traveling.
So you all do as you wish, its your time, I prefer to spend 10 seconds to unplug and plug in, and not spend hours in the ER and follow up.


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## eflanders (May 2, 2013)

As a former factory maintenance foreman I can attest to the fact that machines do in deed turn on automatically. It usually happens due to a faulty magnetic switch. In shops that have more than one worker in it I have also seen people turn on machines not knowing someone was in a dangerous position. Retrieving cut-off and mutilated body parts is not a fun job! Repairing machines that have caused bodily harm isn't fun either! There is a valid reason to unplug and to lock-out.


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