# a little confused about watco danish oil



## Peter5

I use Watco Danish oil to finish pretty much everything, and for the longest time I was only using one or two coats and loved the way it looked. But, everyone kept telling me I should use at least three coats. So I started going to three, and I'm finding that the sheen is much slicker and shinier, which is OK but not really my preference. The bigger problem though is that I'm finding that I end up with the wood feeling tacky, as if the oil isn't drying completely. Is this simply because I'm failing to adequately wipe away the excess on each coat? Further, what can I do about it? Obviously I could sand, but I'm wondering if I could use Howard's restore-a-finish instead. Any advice, as always, is much appreciated!


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## AJLastra

Peter

Any time your topcoat feels tacky, the first thing you need to consider is whether you have let the coats under it dry well enough. One of the issues with "oil/varnish" blends is, if in fact the finish DOES contain oil, whether the oil dries thoroughly. If not, and you apply additional coats on top of undried oil, you;re going to have a sticky mess. That said, Watco is a wiping varnish with very little if any oil in it. Wiping varnishes tend to dry a bit faster than traditional alkyd varnish because the solvent used in making it may be naptha or tolulene. Not sure what the solvent for Watco is, off the top of my head. My first thought is that the last coat is tacky because the previous coat didnt dry enough. you can speed up dry time by using a box fan to circulate air around your work piece. Dont direct the air directly at the piece. If (when) the piece dries, you;ll likely have dust nibs and debris to level sand out. That's routine with varnish.


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## Peter5

That makes sense, but the can says that it's ready for recoat in 30 minutes (I believe, I could be misremembering). So would you just sand with some 400 grit at this point?


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## teejk

It's been awhile since I used Watco but I would check the can again about drying time. It used to require a minimum of 8 hours before a top finish meaning it takes some time to set-up. And as I recall, the best way to get rid of the "tacky" was a fresh coat of the product wiped off immediately (it was it's own solvent). Somehow I think you'll end up not happy if you touch it with sandpaper.


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## rockindavan

If you don't want a higher sheen I would use a purely oil finish. I use teak oil but there are a bunch out there. Personally I haven't seen any difference in protection between teak oil and danish oil. One thing you should do is wipe the surface down with some towels. The oil will soak into the wood, especially in defects, then after you are done wiping it down it will creep back up. You have to make sure you wipe these spots or they can dry as glossy spots. With danish oil I wipe it down a bunch of times over a couple of days to take away the tackiness as it dries.


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## Peter5

Interesting, that makes sense. And yes, I'd like to avoid sandpaper if at all possible.


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## AJLastra

30 minutes in ideal conditions…...........and many of us simply dont finish in conditions that are 72 degrees and 40% humidity. That being said, you CAN try sanding it. But be prepared.  If the varnish isnt dried through, it will corn…you'll get gunk on the paper and it will glog. I would sand it DRY. Dont add more liquid of any kind. You might be tempted to wipe it down with solvent. DONT. Applying mineral spirits or naptha could cut through the coat you have applied and dissolve the coats under it. Sand it until you get a surface that doesnt feel tacky. To build up your successive coats on top of this sanded surface, I would strongly recommend you apply a coat of Zinseer SEalcoat, 2lb cut clear shellac before you put another coat of varnish on that piece. The shellac will form a barrier coat between what you have layed down already and the next series of top coats. If, for some reason, the last coat of Watco was in some way contaminated, didnt bind, etc, the shellac will seal the previous coats and it will be like starting over again with your next coat of varnish. At the same time, you will have put another layer of protection, granted a thin one, on your work piece by using a shellac barrier coat. you will know if the previous coats are dry if you simply sniff the piece. It shouldnt smell like varnish if its dry.


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## AJLastra

Peter, what a previous poster has said is a good thought too. Wipe it down and see if the finish comes to the surface again. I have a feeling you might have put on successive coats before the previous one dried. It will dry eventually, but it will take a bit longer than you probably anticipated.


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## Doss

My experience is that if you don't have a completely controlled environment to let it cure, then it's always going to take longer than it says. I usually check it to make sure as I know the problems with applying successive coats of a finish before the previous coats have cured sufficiently.

I think last time I used Watco (in the winter down in the South), I was allowing at least 1 hour of dry time and then one full night's set up before applying a wipe-on poly on it. I sanded in each coat (walnut) using 1000-2000 grit sandpaper.

I applied 3 or 4 coats and it was not shiny (the sanding may have had a lot to do with that). It was very shiny after the 2 coats of wipe-on poly though.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Excellent post, great answers. My only wierd experience was just as rockindavan says, and it was on my workbench for it's annual re-apply of Watco's. A day after I applied, it was kinda tacky. I was pretty nervous, didn't understand because I hadn't seen it before. Used a hard rag (no lint was the goal) to remove what looked like silvery excess, two days later went into the shop and the finish was hard as a rock, and looked great. I'm wiping over time and staying patient from this point in my use of Watco's. Hope your problem isn't more severe. Good luck!~


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## Fuzzy

Give it more time … WATCO is a very thin finish … no where near as thick as a brushed on, full strength poly. If poly will dry & cure fully, your WATCO most certainly will also. If you try to mechanically "work" the finish, you will, in all probability have a mess on your hands. Attempting to remove an uncured finish WILL be something you don't ever want to attempt.

The only advice I have to question in the previous responses would be that, in one comment, you are advised to add more WATCO in order to take advantage of the solvents contained therein to soften or reamalgamate the uncured finish you are dealing with … yet in another, you are cautioned against using a solvent to attempt removal of the excess WATCO. Again, I wouldn't attempt either without just giving it more time … LOTS of time. The first coat or two is largely absorbed into the wood so it feels dry, even if it's not … additional coats tend to sit closer to the surface, on top of those first few penetrating coats, so they tend to act more like a poly than a penetrating finish, causing them to take longer to cure/dry. Ten coats of WATCO still wouldn't be as thick as a coat of full strength poly, so they WILL dry, in time.

Did I mention to give it more time ???


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## AJLastra

Fuzzy,

did you mention give it more time? HAHAHA!! I agree. It would be reeeeeeal tricky to try to remove the undried topcoat and if Peter waits, he will likely have his finish dry just fine. May take a while though Pete but it'll save ya a lot of aggravation trying to "fix" the problem. I STill think it wont hurt to circulate air around that work piece. I read a series of posts not too long ago on WoodWeb where a professional cabinet shop was applying varnish on some sample boards and the area of the shop where they kept the samples was pretty cold. they left them there over night, damp with varnish. when they came back the next day, the boards were bone dry despite thefact that the temp IN THE SHOP in the area where the samples were kept was under 40 degrees. Point is: solvent will flash off regardless of the air temp if you add circulating air which helps finishes like varnish and shellac dry faster. It works well with lacquer too. Water bornes are more finicky as we all know.


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## Fuzzy

I absolutely agree that ambient air movement speeds up drying/curing to a great extent. I was taught in a root cause analysis seminar to always look at both extremes to see if there is any correlation to the question at hand. In this case it is simple … if you apply the finish and place the piece in a very small. tightly closed environment, it will dry, eventually, but it will take forever. OTOH, if you place it out in a windstorm, it will dry more quickly, although the finish may suffer from quality issues. So … it stands to reason that SOME air movement, at least sufficient to move away the evaporated solvents is a good thing.


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## teejk

Like I said, I haven't used Watco for years. I think they were bought out by the same company that owns Min-wax and they actually disappeared for a while. It was my sole stain product before that but I tried it once after they came back to life and I knew something was different. So my comment about it being its own solvent related to the "old" Watco.

just an "aside"...if you don't plan on a poly top-coat, I am a big fan of Johnson paste wax…when I think I have totally cleaned off all stain residue, a few coats of that stuff will yield a rag that tells me I was wrong.


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## ClintSearl

Wipe it down with naptha. That'll make it dry.

BTW, 90+% of all the oil finishes, except pure BLO (which is only good for starting fires) and pure tung oil, are blends of BLO, a resin like alkyd or urethane, metalic driers, and solvent. The other 10% use processed tung oil instead of or with BLO. Also, there's no such thing as "teak oil." The naturally occurring oleoresin in teak is never extracted.


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## Dusty56

MSDS *Watco "Teak" Oil*
PRODUCT NAME: 67100 Watco Marine Teak Oil

MSDS NO. 67100 COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS

*Hydrotreated distilate, light *21-30 68410-97-9 No PEL established

*Solvent naphtha (petroleum) medium aliphatic *1-10 64742-88-7 No PEL established

*Linseed Oil, Acid Refined* 1-10 8001-26-1 No PEL established

*Cobalt Compounds* <1 7440-48-4 0.1 mg/m3 TWA


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## Dusty56

Hydrotreated distilate, light = Kerosene


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## Fuzzy

TEAK OIL is made FOR Teak … not FROM it !!! Just a matter of semantics.


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## rockindavan

I second fuzzy. People get too caught up in trying to correct the convoluted nomenclature that the finish industry has set in motion. Most finishes don't say exactly what is in the can, but instead give names that will sell better like wipe on poly instead of varnish that is essentially watered down. Teak oil may not be made from teak, but thats the label written on the can, is easy to remember, and its the only thing that Menard's folk will understand to point you in the right direction. Its up to you to know whats in your finish.


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## ClintSearl

TEAK OIL is NOT FOR teak, as teak has its own oil. TEAK OIL is for rubes who think because Watco gives it an exotic name it has mystical properties that justify paying five times as much as the BLO that's in it is worth.


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## brtech

If you have owned teak furniture for a while, as I have, you know that while teak starts out not needing oil, it doesn't stay that way. Now, to be sure, lots of teak furniture is veneered teak, and it's finish needs are a lot different from solid teak, but solid teak dries out too.


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## Fuzzy

*TEAK OIL* ... by any brand name is supposed to supplement/replenish/enhance the natural oils in woods such as Teak, Rosewood, Zebrawood as they degrade and turn gray from exposure to the elements. It helps inhibit mold, mildew, and UV deterioration. Of course, it can be used on any wood at the user's discretion, but I have to disagree that WATCO or any other manufacturer (and there are several) has given it an "EXOTIC" name ("TEAK OIL" is exotic


> ) or made any claims of "MYSTIC PROPERTIES" (what claims are you referring to


) in order to sucker unsuspecting folks into it's purchase. The few reviews I've been able to dig up were very positive, with the users seemingly quite happy with their purchase of the product.

It is true that some TEAK OILS contain Linseed Oil … and some contain Tung Oil … all of them appear to contain additional resins and UV inhibitors to boost their performance. If you want simple Linseed Oil, yes, it can be bought at a fraction of the price … if you want the additional resins & other ingredients, you'll pay the price for them … that doesn't make the product a ripoff for those who want it. These products have been around as long as I can remember, and if they were in fact a ripoff, I doubt they would have survived the test of time, regardless of what they are called.

I would assume that any good oil based protectant (PENOFIN comes to mind … not too exotic … *PEN*etrating *O*il *FIN*ish) might very well perform in much the same manner, and possibly at a cost slightly less than the commonly marketed TEAK OILS, but until I see a credible side-by-side comparison, I will refrain from "bashing" either product or the users of same, based on it's name.

From : http://www.ehow.com/how_5007095_use-teak-oil.html
"Teak wood is noted for its beauty. Much of the unique coloring of teak actually comes from oil in the wood itself. As it ages and weathers, the oils change and the appearance of the original wood grays. Although some prefer the silvering affects of time on teak wood, others prefer to use teak oil to maintain the original luster and color of the wood. With careful application you can preserve the rich hues of teak wood with teak wood oil."


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## ClintSearl

Raw tung oil or a processed tung oil finish like Waterlox is a good treatment for weathered teak if a resin (film) finish isn't wanted. BLO is a poor substitute.


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## Fuzzy

BLO is a poor substitute for BLO … pure garbage in my opinion … BUT … WATERLOX IS a resinous finish that builds a film rather quickly, in fact.

Tung Oil is an ingredient of WATERLOX, but WATERLOX isn't simply a brand name for Tung Oil … it also contains other resins & solvents.


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## Dusty56

I love WATERLOX on Walnut : )
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/26952


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## ClintSearl

Fuzzy….In my research, I have not been able to find a credible reference to an oil that is extracted from teak wood, i.e. Teak Oil. The link you posted includes a link, http://www.ehow.com/how_7433678_finish-teak-oil.html , that says, "Generally, teak oils contain boiled linseed oil or tung oil as the main ingredients." This plus lack of evidence otherwise convinces me that the term, Teak Oil, is no more than a marketing gimmicK to confuse and influence consumers to pay a premium for a product that contains commodity BLO, or at best tung oil. Period.


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## Dusty56

RE: what's the dif btwn tung, linseed and teak OILs?
Wed, Apr 16, 08 at 7:41

There isn't a simple and clean answer to this one.

"Teak oil" is just oil that's being marketed for use on teak. According to Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing, "teak oil," may be straight mineral oil, or a mix of mineral oil and wax, or a mixture of linseed oil and varnish, none of which have properties that make them especially suited to use on teak. In other words, it's strictly a marketing term.

Real tung oil has particular properties, but most of what's sold as "tung oil" contains little or no real tung oil. Different brands contain different mixtures of stuff and therefore have different properties.


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## ClintSearl

Check out my blog, and comments, on the subject of Finishes and Finishing for an excellent working description of what there is to choose from. And remember, TEAK OIL is a myth!


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## Fuzzy

I suppose then, by your definition, Baby Oil, Motor Oil, Gun Oil are all just marketing gimmicks because they are not derived from Babies/Motors/Guns ???

I think I very clearly stated that TEAK OIL was NOT made FROM TEAK … but, rather FOR TEAK.


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## 280305

Fuzzy - Is that true about Baby Oil?


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## Fuzzy

So I am told … hehehe


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## rockindavan

I think people are getting a little over zealous about teak oil. We get it, it isn't actually teak oil. Fuzzy got it right on, its just not actual type of oil, but a brandish name a particular concoction of oils and various other ingredients. And so what if its a few bucks more than the generic tubs, I know I like how it looks and I doubt I use more than a quart a year.


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## Dusty56

How about Whale oil ? Where does that come from ? LOL


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## Fuzzy

Whale Oil is also know as … ready ???

*SPERM OIL !!!*


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## Peter5

Well, I never dreamed I'd spark such a vigorous conversation with this question. So here's what happened: the tackiness went away with more time to dry as you all suggested. But there were some spots that were not smooth to touch because the oil had been thrown on too thick or not wiped up well enough. So I sanded those spots with 400 grit, then used some Howard's Restore-a-finish over it and it looked and felt great. So basically, everything worked out great. Thanks again everyone for weighing in on this.


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## Doss

Finishes are a topic that I think will always cause a lot of discussion simply because there are so many different ones for different applications and different looks. Not only that, they sometimes differ due to simply how they are applied from drying times, application process, or prep steps.

I like oils though simply b/c of their ease of use and how they have turned out for me in the past.


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## teejk

Peter

Stains I have used (old Watco/Minwax/Zar etc.) usually specified a 15/20 minute MAX at which time you need to remove the excess (that max is liberal and in my experience the color won't change much after 10 minutes but still allows you time to remove the excess before it becomes a sticky mess).

I don't think I've ever been able to measurably change the color of a piece with longer times or repeated coats.

I guess it comes down to choosing the proper color to begin with and use a test piece. You would have saved a lot of work and money I think.


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## Doss

I don't think I've ever been able to measurably change the color of a piece with longer times or repeated coats.

Maybe you haven't, but I have. It really depends on the product you're using and the wood you're applying it too. Some woods take to stain really well and some don't.

A lot of products used change the color drastically after one coat and then not so much after successive coats (sounds like your experience). I'd say this is true with most products actually. Some though, have a nice predictable build for each extra coat you put on. I find those to be the medium to darker stains. Light stains don't seem to build a lot of color after the initial coat.

I


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## SteveTaylor

Had the same problem while "learning" through trial and error…before I found woodworking sites and realized that my mistakes had been made by coutless others before me. My most memorable mistake was applying 3 coats BLO in a 40 degree unheated garage in 3 days before Christmas 2 hours apart and then expecting it to be dry the next day and ready to wrap under the Christmas tree….It was a little gunky.

For those projects that I don't want to touch with sandpaper, I also finish an identically prepared piece of scrap wood and let dry under the same conditions. When I can sand the test piece and get dust rather than gunk, I know the project is ready. (I still let it sit another 2-3 days to ccount fo Murphy).

Steve


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## Gshepherd

I use General Finishes Natural Danish Oil….. My method is as follows on all my projects…. Everyone has their own way but 1 common issue we all agree on is getting each coat dry before adding any more…..

I sand to 100 grit…. I vacuum very well and use a very damp rag of (MS) to wipe off the area I am fixing to put the first coat on. ( I do this cause I have this vision it will pull the oil deeper into the wood) I will put the first coat on and maintain a wet surface for at least 15 min. Then wipe off excess and keep checking for 3-4 hours for any seepage back and keep wiping it off and when I am satisified there is no more seepage back I leave it alone for 12- 24 hrs. When I know it is completely dry I will hit it with 120 then do it again, Sandpaper will tell you if it is dry or not, then 150,180,220,240.320,400…..Lightly of course, when I am at 400 I will do several light coats without sanding any more. This may be a lot of steps for lot of people to make but it works for me and I am sticking to it. Your first coat will penatrate the deepest and it gets less and less as you go up in sandpaper. End grain I will sand to 220 then put on first coat. Then depending what the use of the project I may use a paste wax and do several coats….. Or spray a tougher final coat…. I am very close to being done with my Nail Gun wall Cabinet and I am doing this same procedure as described.  Just a couple of coats will give pleasant viewing pleasure but lets face it we are trying to bring out the grain and mostly protect it. I love this type of finish because you can easily touch it up later on and scratches happen if they don't then it is not being used…... If it is not being used then why make it?


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## carolisnewatthis

I am finishing an unfinished trestle table that will eventually be an outside table. I have applied several coats of Danish Oil to the base and am getting ready to begin the tabletop. I have seen several references to using wax to finish. I understand that makes it difficult to re stain when the time comes. I saw a reference to Johnson Wax. Does this waxalso need to be sanded off before reapplying stain in the future? Thanks for the help!


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## carolisnewatthis

Steve, what a great idea using a scrap piece to test dryness if you don't want to sand the project! Thanks for the tip!


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## Woodmaster1

Watco is owned by Rustoleum. I just finished a project with one coat of dark walnut watco. I waited the recommended 72 hrs. And applied 3 coats of Minwax wipe on poly satin. Looks great.


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## lumberjoe

I use danish oil on everything and my finishes aways come out fantastic. Here are some good tips that took me a while to figure out:

1 - Instructions on the can suck. 
Sand your piece and wipe it down with mineral spirits. Pour some danish oil right out of the can onto your piece and smear it around with a rag. You want a slick surface, but no puddles. Get a nice even coating. Keep an eye on it for 20 minutes or so and touch up any spots that dry quickly. Walk away for 24 hours

The next day, wipe some on with a rag. You don't want to go too heavy, just enough to get everything coated. Walk away for 48 to 72 hours. It's going to be tacky for a while. Don't touch it or even look at it. Anything you do to try to make it better will end up making it worse. Indirect airflow will help speed this up a bit if available.

If it is a casual use piece that won't be handled a lot, you are done. Danish oil is not a film building finish. Caking on only results in a tacky mess and won't add any more protection.

2 - If it is something that will get used a lot, apply a few coats of wipe on poly. I make a lot of tables. I generally only poly the tops and leave the legs and aprons just danish oil.

I've found that semi-gloss arm-r-seal thinned about 10% with mineral spirits looks AWESOME over Danish oil. It still has somewhat of a natural look but offers a lot more protection.

This is Ash (pore filled) with 2 coats of danish oil and 4 coats of arm-r-seal applied as above, then buffed with paste wax. Very little if any sheen, but protected and looks nice


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## Stevebro

wow, thanks to all for an informing and entertaining discussion of danish oil. I too had drying problems, can said 30 minutes first coat, then 15 minutes 2nd coat. Alas, i believed it as I am a danish oil virgin, watco used to be held in high esteem. 
Thanks to all for answer, new technique, and info about watco.
2 questions:
1. Does watco still make their own products in their own plant?
2. What other brands of danish and tung oil do people love to use?

thanks again, Stephen


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## davegutz

The guy in the following link has carried oil finishing to a new level. He explains the tackiness mentioned in the original post and how to avoid/correct it.

http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/oil_finishes.pdf


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## hydro

I use the Watco Danish Oil on lots of projects, but I do not use it as described on the can. I have found that on open grain woods you can get considerable "bleed out" of the pores after a while, and if you don't chase them they harden and are a bugger to work out.

I do the first coat as described above, watching to get even saturation, give it a little while to get somewhat tacky, then I wipe off the excess while it is still liquid. You have about 30-60 minutes to do this, depending on temperature.

A simple solution for the bleed out problem is to dissolve some paste wax in a separate can of finish and use this for the second and subsequent coats. The wax stabilizes the oil and keeps it from bleeding out the pores. It helps to warm the finish and shake it up before using, and I use an old coffee maker bottom heat plate to warm the can of finish. An added advantage to this is that it gives the finish a nice sheen when rubbed out.


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## Tomwlkr

Hello! I made furniture for years, strictly amature but pretty good at it, them I retired and moved South, no basements. Havent done woodworking in 20 yrs, now trying to get back to it. I'm refinnishing an antique rifle stock and have never used Danish oil, but thats what I have available, any suggestions?


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## OSU55

Amazing amount of discussion for a simple finishing technique. This blog might help. The only reason a do finish feels tacky is the user did not wipe it off thoroughly. If the do gets too tacky during wipe off, just add a bit more and move it around, which thins the tacky portion, and wipe off. I didnt read any mention of wet sanding with a do finish - excellent way to get a great finish, but as I say in the blog, the same can be done with poly and end up with a much tougher finish.


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