# Using Hide Glue to assemble face frames and rail and stile joints on cabinet doors



## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

I'm getting prepared to build a set of cabinets to use in our kitchen remodel project.

I'm considering using hide glue on the mortise and tendon joints of the face frames and also on the stub tendon joint on the coped rail and stile joint on the cabinet doors.

I'm looking at both the liquid hide glue from Titebond and also at hot hide glue (I have a heating pot to use to heat and maintain the temperature of the hot hide glue).

The face frames and doors will be made from solid cherry lumber.

I'm thinking of using hide glue because of ease of cleanup of any squeeze out.

Looking for experience and advice on using this type of glue for this application. And, if it's a bad idea, which type of glue do YOU think should be used in this case?

Thanks,

Herb


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I think it's a great idea Herb. I use hide glue almost exclusively and recommend it highly. Liquid hide glue will give you more open time for assembly but will require longer clamping. If you are able to work quickly in assembly, HHG will give you very fast tack and need minimal clamping. In either case the joints will be reversible (just in case you make a little mistake and need to take something apart) and can be cleaned up with water and a cloth or Scotchbrite pad.
Check out this blog. http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/5437


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I've used it on a large face frame cabinet for the longer assembly time and it worked fine. The longer clamp time was the only thing I didn't like. The reversible feature and the fact that it doesn't interfere with finishes make it a good glue to use. For me it was the liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue), I've never used the HHG.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Roughly how long is "longer clamp times"?


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I can't speak for Tightbond LHG but with Old Brown Glue, overnight.
With HHG it would only be minutes.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I can t speak for Tightbond LHG but with Old Brown Glue, overnight.
> With HHG it would only be minutes.
> 
> - shipwright


Thanks for the response.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Yeah, I left mine in the clamps for 24 hours (as I recall) which was certainly overkill but I think the common recommendation is overnight.


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the input.

Paul and Fred, particularly appreciate your experience and expertise.

AlaskaGuy, that's a great follow up question, thanks for asking it for me.

Think I'll have to make up some samples of frame and doors and experiment with both LHG and HHG to see which way will work out best for me…

Paul, how long is typical open time with HHG?

Thanks again for the input and I'll probably post a blog with my experiments and results.

Herb


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Open time with HHG a varies with a number of factors. It is important that your glue is not too thick, likely the most common novice mistake. The water holds the heat and glue that is too thick will have a shorter open time. The initial tack in HHG comes from cooling so when the glue's temperature drops below ~115/120F it starts to gel and you are about out of "safe" time. This will be affected by the shop temperature and the material temperature. Sometimes you can heat the pieces to be joined a little, warm up the shop, or increase the temperature of your glue from the normal 140 degrees to 150 or even 160.. 
In reasonable shop conditions you should have around two minutes with 140 degree glue but you will need to do some experimentation. The main thing is that if the glue is not liquid enough to squeeze out of the joint, it is too cool. Take it apart and do it again.
Hope this helps.


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

Paul,

Thanks again for the expert advice.

I'll definitely have to experiment and get it down to a workable solution. I would be ok with the longer open time on the LHG but 24 hours in clamps or even overnight would be quite a haul since I have roughly 24 frames and also about the same number of rail and stile doors, can't see spending a couple of months gluing up frames and doors…

So I take it that once the HHG has cooled enough to "grab" that the assemblies can be removed from the clamps and set aside to cure with just normal caution in handling?

I'll put a link to the blog here once I have something worth blogging about.

Thanks again for the info.

Herb


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Right Herb, once the HHG has cooled (a half hour would be lots) it will take a fair amount of force to move it, especially if it is a trapped joint like M&T. Handled carefully it should be fine at that point and the next day it will be full strength from the second phase of its cure, drying.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I've never used hide glue. I really appreciate all this information. I'll definitely buying some of that Old Brown Glue next time I'm in Boise. Thanks again.


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