# Curly Maple Finishing Plans, would like input



## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

Hey all,

I am going to be starting a project pretty soon, and while I did an insane amount of research beforehand, I really want to double check my plan to make sure I am on the right track.

A little background - I build hifi speakers, varying from small bookshelf to large towers. Normally, I have constructed my cabs from 3/4MDF and then veneered. I have been pleased with the results I have gotten some with traditional stains, and most recently, a nice set of bedroom speakers finished with aniline dye and natural danish oil on some heavy flaked quartersawn white oak veneers.

But for this next project, the cabs were constructed of 3/4 maple ply, with solid wood curvy maple baffles. I am building these for my brother in law as his birthday present. He is a cellist, and as such, I am trying to replicate a finish similar to an old cello.

In researching finishing techniques for this idea, I quickly decided the traditional violin or cello finishing approach was not going to work. Custom made varnishes recommended have really long dry times and I simply don't have that ability. Also, the varnishes used for cellos and violins require sun time, and as its winter and my shop is in the basement, that is not really an option either.

From what I had learned in talking with some people about this, the recommended plan was a 4 stage process using transtint aniline dyes. The first would be the amber color. Mixed into a 50/50 mixture of denatured alcohol and lacquer thinner, I would apply the amber dye to the wood, allow to dry, scuff with 400, and reapply. I would do this 3 or 4 times. Next I was told to seal with a dewaxed shellac to seal the amber color in. Next I would mix up some reddish brown dye with the same 50/50 mixture. I would apply coats, sanding in between each. I plan on finishing with General Finishes Arm-R-Seal Urethane Topcoat in Satin finish. The idea was the amber would give the grain that warm amber color, while the reddish brown would color it similar to a cello or violin, popping the curvy maple. Areas that I sanded back down would reveal more of the amber color, giving me a similar finish to that of a violin or cello.

Does this sound like a good course of action to achieve the goal I have in mind? I plan to finish the rest of the cabinets with only the reddish brown dye- and typically the sides of a cello are darker than the face. I also have milled F Scrolls into the front baffle, about 1/16, and plan to dye those black to mimic the F Scrolls found on the front of a cello.

I am excited to get started on this project, and have all the materials needed on hand. Looking to begin finishing next weekend, and this weekend I plan to finish assembly of the cabinets.

Any and all insight is greatly appreciated.

JD


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Only you will be able to judge whether that does what you want. $ coats of dye sounds like a lot to me, it varies in intensity depending on how dilute you mix the color. Im any case, one thing I want to mention. If you use Transtint dissolved in alcohol, and try to top that with shellac be aware of one thing: the shellac (if wiped or brushed) may well redissolve the dye and streak it all over, it will be mixed with the shellac. You can spray the shellac on and not have that problem. If spraying isn't an option, maybe use a powdered dye that is designed to be dissolved in water. Then top that with shellac, you won't have the possibility of streaking or smearing. You may also have a problem topping shellac with a dye dissolved in alcohol/lacquer thinner (don't know what the purpose of the lacquer thinner is, either). That may redissolve the shellac and at least make it not so level. Maybe testing all these out on scrap or the back of your baffles might be a good idea first. Don't see any problem putting Arm-R Seal on this once completed, but you might want to use dewaxed shellac. There is some possibility of problems with urethane finishes not adhering to waxy shellac.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Would something like this be what you are looking for?










The finish is a multistep process which I have come up with based on a lot of trial and error. First sand the stock to 180 grit sandpaper. I use a random orbit sander and a Porter Cable multi tool for the raised panels. Wet the stock with water then sand again when dry. To get the curl to come through on curly maple you have to use a dye. I use Moser's Medium Walnut water soluable dye (it is a powder that you can get from Bartley's Furniture Kits website). I mix this using two cups of water to 3/4 teaspoon of dye powder. After this dries lightly sand with slowed down random orbit sander (400 grit) then put on a second coat and sand again (400 grit). Follow this with a coat of boiled linseed oil diluted with equal parts of mineral spirits (I use a rag for this). Let this coat dry at least 24 hours then put on a coat of Seal Coat diluted with equal parts of alcohol (I use a chip brush for this). After this dries rub down with 00 steel wool or use the random orbit sander using 600 grit (you can get this from Klingspors). Follow this coat with successive coats of polyurethane diluted with equal parts of mineral spirits (I rag this on until I get the sheen that I want). The cabinets have three coats. Finally, lightly sand the final coat with a slowed down random orbit sander with 1000 grit (Klingspor's again). Rub down the entire surface with Minwax Finishing wax applied with 0000 steel wool and buff. Rather lengthy but hope this helps.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Send me a message if you would like further details.


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## Ghidrah (Jan 20, 2015)

I find Tung oil adds depth to any wood big time figured or not. The 1st pic is quilted maple, purple heart and reclaimed mahogany. The 2nd pic is very old reclaimed mahogany. The mahogany used in both were once part of a customers dropleaf table from the 60s; you can see the walnut plugs filling in the screw holes. I haven't had any luck with varnish over the Tung oil but much success with shellac and clear poly.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

I have a few random thoughts:
1. Maple is very prone to splotching so test your complete finishing schedule on samples before attacking your project.
2. Dissolve the TransTint in water because an alcohol solution will dry very quickly and it will be difficult to avoid darker lines where you overlap when applying.
3. If you pre-wet and sand lightly, the water based TT will not raise the grain.
4. Use dewaxed shellac to seal the various colors and prevent getting a "muddy" effect.
5. If the Arm-R-Seal is oil based, you will need another coat of shellac after the final TT coat and before the first Arm-R-Seal coat.

Good luck with your project and please post pix when complete.


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## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

Really appreciate all the input guys.

Previously when using transtint dyes, I was working with smaller pieces, so the alcohol/lacquer thinner mix worked well as it dried very quickly. (This is one option of the instructions on transtint's website)

It seems their option 2 will be better suited for my project as these are considerably larger. This option is a 50/50 mix of denatured alcohol and water. Apparently it helps minimize the grain raising too much.

Roger, those cabinets are absolutely beautiful. I envy whomever gets to have those within their house. The look I am going for is similar in grain pop, but a bit different. I found a picture online that shows what I am trying to achieve.

Gidrah- those too look fantastic. Mahogany has some very similar characteristics, but unfortunately it already has that reddish brown color to the wood. Something I will keep in mind if I ever build more of this style speaker though.










As you can see in the picture above, the color varies from a golden amber, to a reddish brown.

Based on feedback you all have given, it seems I need to switch up methods so to not pull up previous finishes in the layers.

So what about this for an idea to try to achieve this look.

Sand the surface properly and apply the golden amber dye- using 50/50 mix of alcohol and water.

Allow to dry and sand back to proper amount.

Add reddish brown tint to wiping varnish, very diluted. Wipe on finish, allowing to dry, scuff and apply subsequent coats, allowing finish to build, perhaps scuffing more heavily in some areas to reveal more of the amber if necessary, but continue compounding the reddish brown wiping varnish until I achieve the depth and color I am looking for?

To my understanding this is how they build up the varnish finish and color on violins and cellos.

The thought behind my process would be because the amber dye is applied via water, the lacquer should leave it alone. Could be wrong there….


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Roger, that is a great set of cabinet doors and explanation on your system to get the doors to pop.

Sure wish we could buy material like that in Western Canada, it is far from common here.

Enjoyed the post and answers, All the best!


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## Ghidrah (Jan 20, 2015)

I get all my curly and quilted maple from "Northwest Timber" Jefferson OR.

JDCrae

That is some beautiful wood!


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Jusfine -

Thanks for the compliments. Those cabinets are part of a set that went into our laundry room. You can see the entire set on my LJ web page.


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## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

Anyone have a thought on my plan? Want to make sure before I plow forward

Thanks


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

To accomplish the look you are after I would:

o Use Target Coatings WR4000 stain base. This is a BLO water emulsion providing the look of BLO yet mixable wither water dyes (I use transtint) and it dries much faster than BLO (~ 2 hours). The advantage of it over water or alcohol is longer open time to prevent lap marks and the BLO pops the grain.

o Use dewaxed shellac to seal the stain. I would mix the brown dye with the shellac and spray to get the desired color. Another option would be a light coat of shellac, very light sanding with 600, stain with WR4000 with brown, evaluate color. If more brown was needed, another coat of shellac with brown, If not, seal with shellac. The shellac will help pop the grain more.

o Topcoat


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## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

Really appreciate the reply OSU55. I am in the process of looking up that product now. Thanks again!


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## abie (Jan 28, 2008)

Check the net and ask for how to make curly maple POP!!!


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## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

Alright, so I applied the 3 different dyes, each sanding after and applying a coat of dewaxed shellac.

After the last coat of dye, so I seal with dewaxed shellac before BLO and Arm-R-Seal, or just go right to BLO and then apply the Arm-R-Seal after the BLO has dried fully?

Thanks, will put up some pictures here in the next few days


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Seal the last coat of dye with dilute Seal Coat (dewed shellac) then rub out with steel wool. Forget the BLO and rag on 3 to 4 coats of dilute Arm-R-Seal. Rub out with 0000 steel wool followed by a coat of Minwax Finishing Wax rubbed on with 0000 steel wool and buff.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Forget the BLO. How did you apply the dye? The arm-r-seal will pop the grain. Depending on the dye carrier, you probably don't need the shellac. One advantage of the shellac though is greater depth of the actual finish as well as the look.

Are you completely filling the finish? If so, do that with shellac vs poly (that's what arm-r-seal is). Sand 600 between coats, you can leave the shellac dust in the pinholes - shellac burns-in and will melt the powder left in the holes. You can also drop fill using shellac. Once filled, topcoat with poly. You do not want to fill with solvent poly - you will get witness lines, it does not burn-in. If not filling the finish, you could go straight to poly. Thin the 1st coat ~25%, subsequent coats ~10%. Nib sand between coats with 600.


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## barada83 (Feb 25, 2015)

Probably too late to help anyone but I like doing a two stage dye process. I use black dye first along a lightly sanded, no more than 220 without preraising. After you black dye, knock the raised grain and sand off the superficially absorbed dye leaving the black dye in the deepest absorbing grain. Then finish with your top color. I have really great grain differentiation without a whole lot of time.


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## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

Wanted to make sure everything dried properly before going any further. Am planning on putting the Arm-R-Seal on tomorrow night. Figure I will do 5 wipe on coats, which should give them plenty of protection.

As far as how I did the dyeing

Step one was a very dark mission brown dye. Mixed with water. Let dry and sanded back until only the curly was brown. Sealed with dewaxed shellac, thin coat, scuffed and then applied amber honey dye. This was also mixed with water,sanded off sealed with dewaxed shellac, and scuffed. Last step was applying the reddish brown. I ended up mixing this with some of the amber honey and brown to get just the right color. Applied until I got the coloring I wanted, let dry, slight scuff and then applied a very thin coat of BLO. My notifications weren't going through, so I ended up going with the BLO before I saw the recommendations not to. I did a super thin coat, wiped off all excess, and now its nice and dry. I plan on rubbing out the last coat as recommended with 0000 steel wool, and then apply a paste wax and buff out

Will start applying the top coat, as recommended tomorrow night. Here are some pictures so you guys can see how everything is coming out. Can't thank ya'll enough for the input








Dark Mission Brown Coat








Sanded back DMB Coat








Amber Honey Dye Coat








Final dye with Reddish Brown/Amber Honey Coat

I have done the cabs in the same manner. Really like how they are coming out.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Beautiful so far…nicely done. Show us the end project when you finish.


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## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

And here is the final result. Crazy amount of man hours in these. But I am quite pleased with the finish I was able to replicate for them.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Excellent. Should give many years of sevice and with appreciated beauty.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Hope they sound as good as they look!


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Excellent! I like the finish. I hope they sound as good as they look!


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## JDCrae (Feb 25, 2015)

Thanks everyone! Have been burning in the drivers over the past week, so I will do some more critical listening and testing this weekend just to make sure everything is good. Thanks again to all for the input!


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## katrina (Apr 28, 2015)

good work


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## TimmyK (Apr 23, 2019)

> Would something like this be what you are looking for?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


RoberM,

Your post above is a few years old, and it doesn't look like Moser's make a Medium Walnut anymore. However, I'm looking to replicate the finish you showed. What would you recommend based upon Moser's current offerings?

Thanks!


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

You could use Transtint, Transfast, or WD Lockwood dye. A medium to dark brown or even black will work.


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