# Foley Belsaw 985 Planer Setup



## desertbull (Sep 3, 2020)

GREATLY APPRECIATE all input.

Just moved entire shop and found a great tool I could really use…a serious planer. It is the 5hp model and my question is simple.

I am going to put an outlet on the new wall but here is the issue…what size of BREAKER would you use? The manual says it is a 30 amp unit. (http://www.belsaw.com/Web%20Manuals_pdf/985%20Manual2.pdf) go to page 12…...

I am going to hook it directly to the panel; the sub-panel is a Siemens brand…..greatly appreciate any/all input. This site is so bad ass!

Thanks!


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

This information is taken from a Square D motor data calculator. For a 5 hp motor, full load current is 28 amps on 240 volts, single phase. It requires 10 awg copper wire, but I would use 8 awg copper. I don't run any wire that close to full load. This is using a properly sized starter, either magnetic or manual, with overload protection. A 60 amp thermal magnetic breaker is what you need. The breaker is larger to provide the inrush current at start up. The breaker is for short circuit protection only. The overloads in the starter provide the over current protection. Should be a great addition to your family. Of tools.


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## desertbull (Sep 3, 2020)

Ibewjon, I cannot thank you sir enough!


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

IME - Tricky question, depends on local codes, and AHJ/inspector. 
Or put another way: 
There is a NEC 430 code answer, and then there are local rules that may allow NEC 210 code use.

A standard breaker for motor can be rated from at either 125% or 175% of FLC per NEC 430 tables, depending on use category. FLC is different than FLA. 
Use category is a hotly debated topic. 
Light duty motors can use lessor 125% value. 
Continuous use HVAC motors are required to use 175% value. 
Commercial installations typically use 175% value, regardless of use category. 
Many AHJ will allow use of smaller breaker than specified by NEC 430 when called out directly by mfg, even though strict interpretation of NEC 430 codes is to use 175% value for induction motors.

The 125% value of 5HP 28A FLC is 35A, next closest size is 40A breaker. Wire this circuit with 8AWG wire, even though 10AWG THHN could be used. This size breaker might tend to have nuisance tripping, depending on motor load.

The 175% of 28A FLC is 49, which means a 50A breaker would preferred value. Most folks would use 8AWG THHN as it's rated for 50A at 75°, or 6AWG MN building wire 60° rated.

Dedicated motor wiring is one of the few areas where can find wire sized smaller than common rules of thumb for household wiring (14AWG-15A, 12AWG-20A, 10AWG-30A, 8AWG-40A). As long as breaker and switch contacts are rated for 75° operation, can use smaller THHN/THWN wire sizes. Of course, using a smaller rated wire is only valid for a motor circuit. If you want to use welder, or make the circuit general purpose; the rules become more complicated.

Confused yet?
Some of the WW equipment mfg manuals will recommend the lessor 125% value, while others the higher 175% value. Even worse, mfg can/will use the name plate FLA, instead of FLC as required by NEC 430 codes. Have seen several overseas produced 5HP WW motors with 22-23A FLA on name plate. Using this value, and light duty 125% code; allows use of 30A breaker on 5HP motor. This breaker will have nuisance trip issues on start up, and is not a good choice. The common values called out by Grizzly and Powermatic 5HP are 175% of FLA, or 40A breaker with 8AWG NM wire (which is what my AHJ approves). This still might experience nuisance trips, depending on motor load; but I almost never see one with WW tools. If installing same tool in commercial building with strict NEC 430 rules, would have to use 50A breaker.

Bottom line: Choice in breaker/circuit value is a toss up between your local electrical inspector interpretation of codes, and actual NEC codes.

Best answer for this question will not be found in forums. But by asking your local building code inspector, or hiring a licensed electrician for permitted installation.

Best Luck.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

And as Captain stated, check with your local inspector. The chart I quoted is based on NEC 430. Where I live, there are no license requirements, and no local inspector. ( A motor can draw up to 3x running current on startup).


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## desertbull (Sep 3, 2020)

Now, THAT was a response Capt Klutz!! I LOVE learning the various ins and outs…many thanks!


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

If you want another dose of code nightmare for motor wiring:

NEC 430 requires motors 1HP+ to have a lockable disconnect within line of sight. Code also requires that any means of disconnect for motor circuit be rated for HP used.

Simple? 
Using plugs/receptacles on motor circuit larger than 1HP is like crossing a field of land mines.

Most AHJ don't inspect non-commercial shop with tools installed. So the discussion of disconnects or motor rated connectors is rare. But in commercial shop, the inspection includes the tool. Most machines include power lock out at machine, but this does not alleviate the need to met code for WIRING to the machine.

First the plug/receptacle:
As ibewjob noted, induction motor draws 3x current on start up. There is also an inductive kick when power is suddenly removed in same range. Motor HP rated connectors are beefier than current only rated connectors to handle this power spike.

Motor rated connectors can be hard to find. Not all mfg bother to test/certify connectors for motor HP, especially the inexpensive overseas brands. Hubbell is one of the few that sell locking connectors with HP rating. Have to refer to catalog to find itty bitty tables with ratings.

One example: 
Hubbell L14-30 has largest 1PH motor rating of standard NEMA locking connectors, and is only rated for 3HP motor, even though current rating is 30A. This seems low when a 3HP motor FLA 13-15A, and NEC 430 FLC is 17A @ 230 1PH. But this is perfect example of why you need motor HP rated connectors, if/when used as disconnecting means.

That last part is key. Providing you never plug/unplug connectors, WHILE motor is operating; you can safely use a current only rated connector. Does not meet code as disconnecting device, but it will be allowed if another means of disconnect is present. 
Now if you accidentally disconnect motor while running with under rated connector, probably damage the connector contacts. If not ruined the 1st time, they will be degraded, and they will not last many connect/disconnect cycles.

BTW - There are no NEMA locking connectors rated for more than 3HP. For larger motors, have to use PIN & SLEEVE type connectors, that typically use IEC standards. Metlric is a common name for this type connection. Hubbell offers them as well. These tend to cost several hundred $$ for each half of connection.

Second disconnect:
A lockable machine disconnect can be the CB panel, if line of sight from tool. If panel is not line of sight, need a separate lockable switch, or plug/receptacle with mechanical interlock for lock out protection. The mechanical interlock on plug/receptacle is mandatory for commercial operations, and another part often overlooked by home shop. Cost being the typical excuse. Hubbell sells the HBLMITL disconnect that incorporates the required mechanical interlock for standard twist lock connectors. These run about $300 each, plus the $80-100 rated connector.

And you thought breaker size was only motor wiring challenge? LOL

PS - Do not forget that NEC codes change over time, most AHJ don't use latest codes, and old tool manuals electrical recommendations are only valid for date printed.

Many old manuals will recommend a 30A circuit for 23A FLA 5HP motor, as they were likely interpreting the NEC 210 code for simple 125% requirement for any motors. Since 2011 NEC update, when article 430 motor codes were clarified to remove ambiguity; this interpretation is not valid for new installation.

Thanks for asking the question and attempting to be safe, not sorry.


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