# My Grizzy Experience



## robdem (Apr 7, 2011)

Just ordered this saw hope this not going to be a problem for me but I think it is going to be 50 50 shot but like u can't afford the 690. Should have saw in about a week I'll let you know how I make out .


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks for the review. Grizzly had almost universally good reviews on LJ's; however over the past 3-4 months there has been a number of reviews specifically commenting on poor customer service from the company. Coincidence? Probably, but will still make me think twice about purchasing from them, rather than a local dealer.


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## yougbuckwoodworker (Sep 29, 2010)

checkto see if grizzle has switch were they manufacture their sawsmaybe they went to china ha well besst of luck to ya


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

I own a few grizzly products and while mine have been outstanding I have bought machines that have been around quite awhile though.

I hope grizzly isn't getting lazy on their quality control becuase they have some good stuff for the price. I can remember the days when the good stuff was made in the USA and it lasted a lifetime. That's probably a broad spectrum, but it appears lots of things today, especially the lower end stuff is made really cheap no matter who makes/brands it.

If you could have waited a bit longer I would have opted for the 1023 or 690. I waited a bit longer for the 1023 just for the sheer fact that hopefully that will be the only TS I will buy in a very long time to come.

Good luck,

Kevin


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

Grizzly has already tools manufactured in China, but I wont be surprise if they move most from Taiwan to China.


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

I have noticed their tech support. Each person has different experiences in specific things.
Some are expert in jointers, some in table saws,bandsaw, etc.


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## Delta356 (Aug 2, 2010)

Thats to bad to here. I agree with (manitario), the last 3-45 months grizzly have been having so-so reviews…
Your next purchase I would look going with a Delta Machinery.. Not only are there machines great, but you get great customer service. (Grizzly Fans please don't eat me…..LOL)

Thanks, Michael Frey
Portland, OR

FREY WOODWORKING INC.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

i wish i could write a good review about grizzly

what would be better is to read one

but "ego" gets in the way and the conversation soon goes south


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Intereesting post. Thx for taking the time. I hope it all works out. I like Grizzly and have there 14 inch band-saw.

But they really made me mad the last time I delt with them. They e-mailed me with a sale on a Oscillating Spindle Sander. I ordered it 5 min after getting the email and got a reply the next day were 3 months back-ordered as there made over-seas. I asked then why send a sale to me? Seems everything is going oversee even Delta. We can only hope for the best. I ended up buying a better machine for less than grizzly in the end but I feel your pain.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Really hate to hear this as I was contemplating ordering a 691. I have a GO555X and never had a problem though.
Did you by any chance change to a better blade? The ones that typically come with the saws (most brands) are not considered top quality.
Please let us know the resolution to this.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Moron, you're quite right. I've inserted my foot in my mouth for the last time in threads like this. All I will offer is a sincere hope that the problem gets resolved. At least you were informed enough to spot it and had the appropriate measuring tools to plead your case. Good luck!


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## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Please read this. I had the EXACT SAME ISSUE. The alignment would change when I raised and lowered the blade.

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2137


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## TrentFysty (Mar 18, 2011)

That's not good to hear that their service was not up to par for you. I had the opposite experience last week. I had an arbor bearing go out on my 1023SLWX. I got online and placed an order for a new bearing and because the bearing caused damage to the arbor when it failed I ordered a new arbor assembly as well. The next afternoon I got an email stating that they were out of stock on the arbor until the end of August. There was no way I could have my saw be down for that time so I got on here and asked what ideas people had. I got the suggestion to go to a machine shop.

Before deciding on a machine shop I thought I would just call Grizzly and see if they had any other options. The customer service rep listened to my problem and was understanding of the fact I couldn't be without a saw for a month. He said he would do what he could to find one for me. I got a call that afternoon that he had one and would send it out right away.

To me, that is excellent customer service. I think the major issue is getting different people with different skill sets and willingness to help. Hopefully it gets better, but have hope that there are still good reps there that do their job well.


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## woodmaker (Jan 12, 2011)

I am fortunate I have never had a problem with a Grizzly tool or customer service.


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

It seems everyone are having problem with the polar bear series.


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## Delta356 (Aug 2, 2010)

(Steven H.) I think there polar Bear Series was there change over to a different tool maker in China (a trail maybe). I believe most of there green colored tools are made by Geetech in Tiawan, but the Polar Bear series are made in China. Geetch has a rep for outsourcing to other countries.

It's amazing how tools by the same maker look the same, but when they are made in a place that has cheaper labor, and materials are cheaper the quality goes down…..

In a international network,,Made in USA is gone….....

Thanks, Michael Frey
Portland, OR

FREY WOODWORKING INC.


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## Danc333 (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow. Thank you for all your support and good wishes. I hope they are able to solve this for me. As for the blade comment from Howie, I was using a Freud General purpose blade to make the measurements. I never even opened the blade that came with the saw. Gillyd , I read you experience before I called tech support the first time. You ended up buying a General didn't you? I guess you spoke to the same guy I did because you went through the exact same procedures I had to, or the both read the same how to help customers manual. My saw went back to Grizzly on Monday. I will update when I hear form them. If the decide to ship me a replacement I will have then check everything before the send it to me. I do not want to go through his again.

Dan


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## robdem (Apr 7, 2011)

Dan ordered the same saw on monday will have it next monday 8 /8 If you could let me know how you make out with the new one .I'am now very worried about buying this saw now hope it was not a mistake . Don't like spending money on a product that is not up to standards. Hope everythinkg works out in the end for you . I'll review my saw next week going to keep my fingers crossed.


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## Danc333 (Jul 25, 2011)

robdem. You will have yours before I get one back. I hope yours is good. I would check the blade alignment before you even unbolt it from the palate. You should be able to determine right away if your blade tracks up and down true or not. For what its worth the date code on mine was 01/2011. I think its a great saw for the money. I have read reviews of people that have saws from prior to this problem and they are great so my hopes are high that at some point I will get a saw in perfect working order. If they send me one without checking it and I have to send it back I'm not sure what I will do. I ordered the one I just sent back on June 21st. I know I didn't set it up right away and I took my time doing so, so I didn't discover the problem right away. I figure it will be 2 weeks until I see a saw again. The possibility of not getting a working saw for another month is something I am thinking about. I don't make a living as a woodworker so my lively hood does not depend on this,, but I bought the saw (and all of the stuff to go with it) so I could redo my kitchen. I want to make all the cabinets myself. We will see what happens and I will post the results.
Good luck and let "us" know how you make out.
Dan


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## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Danc333, yep they took me through the standard procedures of shimming, etc. I understood what they were trying to do, so I just went along with it. Ultimately I had to send a video of the thing happening, which I sent via email. I first sent them pictures, which then they asked later for a video, which once they saw the video they understood. I sent the Grizzly back in the General crate (which I thought was a fun joke), and they refunded my money, shipping, tax, saying the saw was definitely defective. Total time from sending the saw back, to getting money was between 2-3 weeks.

It felt good to be validated knowing that I had a defective saw and it wasn't me being a stupid newbie. I was literally almost pulling my hair out when I was trying to align the fence, and it being my first saw I wasn't sure what was going on.


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## northeaster (Jul 30, 2011)

Please add me to the list of G0715P owners who have experienced this problem, too. Mine is less severe (about 0.007-0.008"), but it is still not optimal. To better see what is going on, I took a series of measurements with a dial indicator. I used the A-Line-It jig to position a Fowler 0.0005" resolution DI in the left miter slot and have posted the graphs here in case anyone would find the information interesting.

Setting the blade to the top of its travel, I found it was quite easy to align it parallel to the left miter slot. Starting there, I lowered the blade by two turns of the adjusting wheel and repeated the measurements (distance from the miter slot to a single point on the blade); I then repeated the process until the blade was low enough that there was so little distance between front and rear measuring points as to make going on meaningless.

To get an idea of how reproducible the problem is, I repeated the process using a second reference point on my aftermarket blade (an Infinity 010-060) and also with the original equipment (OE) blade that came with the saw. I measured the flatness of the blades and their travel by fixing the dial indicator at a single point in the miter slot, then rotating each blade one complete revolution (360 degrees), too.

I'm really a noob, but I thought the measurements showed the following things:

1) Falling out of parallel while lowering the blade on my saw was a fairly gradual thing that occurred over the whole travel of the blade. That is, there isn't a single binding point where everything goes to h…

2) The parallelism problem is very reproducible with blade height: raise and lower it a few times and the numbers don't apparently change much.

3) The problem for me likely has little to do with the arbor or blade (the miter slot to blade distance is good to within +/- 0.0015 for the Infinity blade, though the OE piece is less straight).

After a call to technical service today, I'm still hopeful that Grizzly will cough up a diagnosis and appropriate solution. The person with whom I spoke didn't try to sugarcoat the issue: he said they understood it was a real problem and were working on it (yeah, Congress is working on the budget, too!). However, he also said I should get a call back within the next 2 to 3 days.


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## Danc333 (Jul 25, 2011)

Here is an update. I got an email from Grizzy and they tell me it appears to be a problem with the "tilt leadscrew nut". Which is part 172 on the exploded view in the manual. Maybe someone with a more technical understanding of the mechanics of table saws could explain this better. They told me they ordered a replacement part. Great review and charts northeaster. A very good indication of what is happening. Did you sent Grizzy a copy of those? It seems they now know there is a problem with this model and hopefully the will come up with a fix. I don't think anyone else with this issue has gotten a repaired saw. I think everyone went with and upper model or a different brand. If mine is the first to actually be repaired I hope it solves every bodies problem and can be something the user can fix without having to ship their saw back. It looks like its a $3 part but I'm not sure whats involved in replacing it. Ill report back when they have replaced the defective part and they give me the results.
Dan


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## northeaster (Jul 30, 2011)

Dan, thanks very much for the update. Though customer service wasn't particularly interested in seeing my graphs, it's good to hear Grizzly thinks the problem can be traced to a single part. I hope they're right the first time. That said, I can't understand from looking at the parts diagram how that nut causes the observed issues, either.

Still, if replacing one part is what's required, it seems the absolute worst thing users in the field might have to consider is taking the table top off and inverting it to get at the offending item. To me, that's a lot less trouble than building a crate, getting movers back in to help me extract the machine through a bulkhead door in my basement, and scheduling around more truck freight drivers later.

Obviously depending upon whether the fix is forthcoming, I can still be enthusiastic about the saw. You never know what issues a new piece of equipment may have until it's been in use for a while and I had certainly factored that into my decision to buy during early spring. Overall, I think the reproducibility of the measurements I made suggests it's still generally a fine machine for its price and I look forward to hearing how this turns out for you.

Marty


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## Danc333 (Jul 25, 2011)

Another update. I just received a call from Grizzy telling me they are shipping me a new saw. The reason they gave is, time it will take for the part to arrive and install they don't want me to have to wait that long. They also told me the new saw will be thoroughly checked for alignment prior to shipping. That is not good news for anyone currently having this problem as it seems you will have to ship back you saw for a replacement. I want to add that even though my customer service experience started out poorly, Things have been much different. I am now satisfied with the way thing are being handled. We will see what happens with the new saw. If it arrives to me aligned, and it holds that alignment I think I will be very happy with my purchase. I'll keep you posted when my new saw arrives.
Dan


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## Kennyg (Jan 15, 2011)

I have an 1023RL and am very happy with it. Not to say I was when I received the first one. The carton showed very little damage, but when I uncrated the saw I noticed the dial indicator had been broken so I notified Grizzly and they responded very fast. Unfortunately in the meantime I started noticing more problems the trunion gears were broken. Evidently the saw had been dropped in such a manner the box didn't show any damage, it was all internal. I called customer service and told them the problem and sent them pictures. They gave me the options of replacing the damaged parts or replacing the saw. Uhhh lets see. anyway as soon as they got notification of pick-up they sent me the new saw and I am very happy with, along with my 17" band saw G0513 and 8"x75" Jointer G0586. The people at Grizzly were very friendly and helpful**** . This is a fold down outfeed table I built for my saw due to my limited shop space.


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## Kennyg (Jan 15, 2011)

Sorry new to this photobucket


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## Kennyg (Jan 15, 2011)




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## Kennyg (Jan 15, 2011)




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## Danc333 (Jul 25, 2011)

UPDATE:
Well here's the latest. I was unable to be home when the UPS truck showed up so I had my wife handle the delivery for me. After waiting all day for the truck to show, (thanks to their delivery window of " between 10am and 5pm") the truck showed up at 6:15. My wife immediately called me and said "NO WAY" the package was destroyed and the driver advised her to refuse the delivery and send it back. I knew that I was not getting a factory sealed saw as I was told my saw would be checked for alignment prior to shipping. I'm not sure how it was repackaged after that, but my wife said there where holes and tears in the cardboard and she could see the saw inside. I have contacted Grizzly and told them that the delivery was refused due to excessive damage to the packaging. I was called today with another activity number and was told I will hear from them in the next day or two. I have to say this has been a lesson in frustration. We will see how this is handled and decide what I want to do. If I want to let them try to ship me another saw or refund my money. The reason I will probably let them try again is the cost of this saw. The next step up is around $300 more for something like a General or a JET. I'm hanging in there and at some point I will actually have a new table saw. I'll keep updating. 
Dan


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## northeaster (Jul 30, 2011)

Dan, sorry to hear about the ongoing hassle. Hang in there.

There is more folllowup from Grizzly to me, too, though not definitive. I got a call back within 48 hours of my first direct contact with customer service concerning possible in-field fixes. The statement was, they wanted to confirm their proposed solution (re part #172 from the trunnion diagram) before sending it out to affected users: they anticipated that within 1 to 2 weeks (August 26th, by my reckoning).

Sorry that doesn't help you at this point, but thanks for letting us know how things develop.

Marty


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## robdem (Apr 7, 2011)

Dan got my replacement saw two weeks ago been away and the misfortune of hurricane irene has not let me fine tune saw yet hopeful for tommorrow power is back on here let you know how i make out


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## Russ_Loves_Tools (Apr 15, 2009)

The polar bear series is not manufactured in the same ISO rated factory. ISO provides quality assurance. I.M.O. it's not worth it. Later this year I will be purchasing the G0513X2F 17" Band Saw. My company recently bought a 5hp T.S. that was dead on in every direction. I called their customer service trying to find what box some of the bolts were in and they weren't sure. I told the guy on the phone that I would figure it out. 3 minutes later I received a call from the same guy telling me which box the bolts were in. I would be willing to bet that even Powermatic has support issues every now and then. Go Grizzly!!!


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## northeaster (Jul 30, 2011)

More microreporting, but at least it's another piece of information that should be helpful to people considering the saw and Grizzly products in general. Bottom line is their customer service is still on top of the matter and I expect a reasonable outcome. More specifically:

I got my third call in the last three weeks (from Bruce in customer service) today concerning their progress on resolving this issue. I was told that they'd manufactured their own new part (#172) and installed it in a saw with a parallelism problem of about 0.008". The new part apparently reduced it to 0.002" range and they plan on making a batch of new parts themselves (thank you for not outsourcing to the people who caused the problem!), then sending them out to affected users during the next two to three weeks.

He offered to take back my current saw, but I have reasonable confidence it can be fixed without so much disruption, since my problem is not as severe as that of others and the saw is usable to me in the short term at a fixed blade height.

From my perspective, Grizzly's still on the side of doing the right thing for customers, so I will hang in until there is a positive resolution and return the item if there isn't.


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## robdem (Apr 7, 2011)

Well spent the better part of today setting up go715p . Well i'll will be calling grizzly in the morning .Having same problem with saw alot of blade deflection almost 1/64 of inch.Also when lowering blade from full height can see the hole motor mount with blade on it deflect not sure if anybody has had this problem . Hope the fix northeaster talks about works wil speak to grizzly about this tommorrow. hope I don't have to send saw back but Isaved all the crating material just in case let you guys know how I make out .


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## robdem (Apr 7, 2011)

Just an update called grizzly today told service rep about problem .He was well aware about problems with saw said he was going to but me on list of people that were going to get replacement parts that grizzly was working on.Not very surprised about this seems like they have gotten alot of this calls. Northeaster would like to know wich grizzly store you called so I can speak to same person that you spoke to thanks


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## Danc333 (Jul 25, 2011)

UPDATE!!!!
I have a working saw. So far so good. I spent yesterday setting up my saw and fence. I am happy to report I was able to get my saw set to within .002" of every setting. Although when I raise my blade to its fullest height there is a noticeable shift in the assembly. I have no plans to use my saw with the blade at its maximum height so at this point I am willing to live with that. I will investigate that issue shortly and see if there is something loose. I set my alignment with the blade about 1/4" from its max height. It raises and lowers within .002" I can live with that. the blade to miter slot is within .0015, and miter slot to fence is .001". I am anxious to start cutting things. As I feel right know I got a really good saw for the money. I had reasonable expectations and feel the saw meets those. After a rough start with customer service, things on Grizzy's end have been fine. I can't blame them for what UPS freight did to the first replacement, and after being home to accept delivery of this saw, and seeing the back of the truck, I'm amazed that UPS freight actually delivers anything in one piece. No load straps, no load bars, just a pile of stuff thrown in the back of a trailer. I will give a usage review on this saw and the whole INCRA system I bought to use with it after I have some time with them. I want to thank all the members on this board who have been nothing but supportive and encouraging throughout this ordeal. To those of you waiting for parts or thinking about buying this saw. If you have reasonable expectations this is a good value. Its not a powermatic or a unisaw, It's also not $3000+. Its a good saw at a good price. I think its a great piece of equipment to start enjoying woodworking with. Thanks again
Dan


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## northeaster (Jul 30, 2011)

Well, I am told by Grizzly customer service that there is finally a more definitive answer concerning the parallelism problem. I will relate my experience as best I can to help people make an informed choice about the saw.

I received yesterday a call telling me that Grizzly had measured "a lot" of G071P's (number not specified) and changes of parallelism in the 0.008" range raising and lowering the blade were the norm for this machine. The lead screw fix previously promised did not reproducibly make a substantial difference, so at this point they are essentially declaring victory and walking away. I asked two further questions.

First, what about all the people who previously reported shifts 10x greater than those I have observed (that is, in the 0.070-0.080" range)? My service person said they frankly didn't know what to make of that, having measured a lot of different saws and not seeing those kind of numbers themselves.

Second, how does that compare to 690's or 1023's? He didn't immediately know the answer, but was good enough to snoop around (they generated that data, too) and call me back today. Reportedly, for the cabinet saws, the tolerance was in the 0.002-0.003" range.

Should I be happy with this answer? My immediate take is that, if I make a serious stink about it, I could likely box up my current saw and get a credit for it (this started within the 6 months from purchase interval). Not a guaranteed thing at this point, but likely and worth considering.

The other possibility is realizing I don't spend a lot of time cutting with the blade 4" above the tabletop and simply adjusting the saw so it is parallel in the range I will really be using it (with the blade raised about 0.75-1.75") might make sense. That would allow me to spend the extra $600-1500 dollars (shipping/220V installation/list price difference from next Grizzly or other manufacturers saw up from this one) on something else that would make my woodworking life happier still.

It's not as if this saw is distressingly bad by any means and it otherwise seems solid. Rather, it simply has some of the limitations you would expect of a piece of equipment in this price range. Another example of, "You get what you pay for."

Marty


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## RobertsPlace (Aug 19, 2012)

northeaster (Marty) - what did you end up deciding regarding your table saw?


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