# What saw blade aligning dial indicator to get?



## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm in the market for a dial indicator. I see a lot of guys like the in-line-industries for their PALS kit, and also their "align it basic or delux dial indicators" The basic being $80 and the delux is like $145.

I looked at rockler and could only find the Betterly UNA-GAUGE but its $200 and this generic looking one for $70.









And then there are guys out there that just get a dial indicator and mount it to a board,









Woodpeckers makes one for $80 on incra's website, probably cheaper elsewhere.
http://www.incrementaltools.com/Woodpeckers_Saw_Gauge_p/wpsg-wp.htm

And finally i found the ts-aligner jr which is $134 from this guy http://www.ts-aligner.com/tsalignerjr.htm

I'm just starting out in wood working but a quality tool will last forever, I don't know which route to go.

Thoughts?


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## rkober (Feb 15, 2012)

My $.02 - buy a good quality dial indicator and build you own jigs. I had the same question a few weeks ago myself. However I already owned a good Starrett indicator from my metal shop so it made my decision easier. With that being said I built a jig I can clamp to my miter and it worked fine. I mounted mine horizontal (face up) so the reference point was closer to the table though. I just couldn't get excited about spending money on a tool that I would only use occasionally. However a good dial indicator can be used often so I like a good one.


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

I would use my dial test indicator rather than a dial indicator.










It is not as versatile of a tool but it is made for that type of measurement.


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

Harbor freight. 10 bucks


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## jeepturner (Oct 3, 2010)

Buy a dial indicator with a magnetic base. You will use it for a lot of things besides setting up the table saw. You will not regret having one every time you need one. You can build your own adaptions of the ready made tools. The magnetic base can also be made with the rare earth magnets, but I really like the ease of set up with the store bought magnet and posts for it.


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## KenBry (Sep 13, 2011)

*Buy a dial indicator with a magnetic base.*

I agree 100%


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

+1 on harbor freight.


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## 1yeldud1 (Jan 26, 2010)

The only drawback to using a digital indicator is that it takes batteries - just like a digital pair of calipers - if you can swing a "dial" rather than a digital you will NEVER have to spend money on batteries-I have a pair of digital calipers and it seems like every time I really need to use them I have dead batteries !!! just my two cents worth.


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

I took the cheap route per the suggestion of Tool & Die associate.
The reasons are:

 Cost.
 Frequency of use.
 Measuring differential

Your cheaper instruments is fully capable of repeating the measurements. So HF will do.
Now, say If you are interest in shaving off 0.01 where high precision & accuracy counts then, I wouldn't trust the cheap stuff.


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## ajosephg (Aug 25, 2008)

I think analog is easier to use than digital, and it doesn't need batteries as mentioned above. I'd also vote for one with 1 inch travel so you can use it for other stuff. IMO a HF is good enough for most hobby woodworkers.


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## Bill1225 (Oct 31, 2011)

i use a homemade jig and a general brand dial indicator that cost me $14.99 at sear hardware and it works great.


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

yeah, I knew I shoulda just bought that dial indicator when I was at harbor freight, LOL

Gotta drive 60 miles round trip to buy one now.


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## Danpaddles (Jan 26, 2012)

Good place to save some money, you will not use a cheap one enough to wear it out. A Starrett is great if you work in a production setting, if you are reaching for the indicator 3 times a day. But the one from Harbor freight is 98 percent as accurate, and will outlast you. Unless you drop it.

The fixture is easy, if you build your own, you may even learn a little about jigs along the way. And there are other things you can do with it- I figured out my DP table was off a bit, using a dial indicator. Get the magnet base- it isn't that much more money, and is also very useful.


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## TryAgain (Oct 14, 2009)

This will suit your needs just fine for $30 plus shipping … http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1782

The following photo shows how I configured and used it for my own TS blade-to-miter slot alignment. The included magnetic base is surprisingly powerful … the base/rod/indicator assembly does not move when the magnetic base is placed on the vertical face of my miter gage so the fore/aft blade tip measurements are accurate.










Tom


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## revanson11 (Jan 5, 2012)

You might want to take a look at these guys. I liked what I got from them and I think they are reasonably priced.http://www.in-lineindustries.com/alineit.basic.html


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I liked my HF indicator so much , I bought a second one !! 
They go on sale often as well as the magnetic bases 
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/multipositional-magnetic-base-with-fine-adjustment-5645.html

All I'll ever need precision-wise : )


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

For table saw alignment, you don' need precision but only repeatability and sensitivity. 
(same indication when go away and come back on the same spot; taking into account the slack/backlash of your support in the mitre gauge rail)

Afterall you are not interested in the absolute value but you are only interested in the variation of the indication.

Who has good solutions for reducing the slack/backlash? (Which is the right word I am not a native English speaker)


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

whatever you do don't get the Pinnacle one that WC sells, it sucks….nuff said.


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

Sylvain:

Better miter gauges are adjustable. If it is not tight enough, you make it wider. The low tech way would be to use a hammer to flatten the bar a bit which makes it wider. A bit better would be to drill and tap some holes for set screws that you can adjust. There are more elaborate ways but quickly are more cost and effort than just upgrading the miter gauge.

The tablesaw should be quite repeatable given that the bearings are tight and the trunions are not loose. Setting the alignment should be a once in a lifetime affair for the saw with only a check up once in a while just in case things loosen up or if you change bearings or bushings. If it is coming out of square, you have a more serious issue you should look into.

The biggest problem with repeatability on tablesaws in general use is that people feed too much by hand instead of using proper feed aids such as featherboards, rollers and the like. Then they blame the saw.


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Okay I finally got around to buying a dial indicator from HF and the results are horrible. The blade is off by 70 thousandths. I thought i read on lumberjocks that 2-3 thousands was acceptable. lol

Well I pulled one of the trunion bolts to get the threads checked and then order up a PALS.

Good news is I cut up a 2'x4' sheet of melamine with my new onsrud rip blade and HOLY COW, that thing is smooth, even with the blade being off a bunch.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I have 5 dial indicators because I do metalworking in addition to woodworking. Dialing in a saw blade is not a frequent task, so I wouldn't buy the most expensive DI. You can dial in a blade without a DI with a block of wood and feeler gauges. If your fence is set parallel to the miter gauge slots, use that. Just place a piece of hardwood against the fence and adjust so the leading tooth brushes the wood. Then move the block to the same tooth at the back and using feeler gauges, find the one that fits the best. Whatever you find, will be the deviation and you can now adjust the saw accordingly. The other posts are good also to combine ideas. If you have a jointer, a DI and magnetic base is quite useful.
Make sure you read off the *tooth* and not the plate.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Glad you got it worked out. 
Mine is off by about .009 and once my pals arrive I'll fix it up.

Don't make the mistake I did; I did all adjustments with the motor and belt off, got it within .001 and put the motor and belt on, BAM! .009.

So make your adjustments with the saw in cut ready position.


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

That is a really good point NITEWALKER, I totally would have done it with the motor and belt off.

I pulled a bolt and checked it at the hardware store, 5/16" so now I can order my PALS.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Don't become obsessive. Wood is wood, and each piece will have a personality. 
Wanna buy a "Last Word" Starrett dial indicator? In the original case? Cheap? Flat rate shipping?
Bill


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks but I already bought a dial indicator. Also with how much my blade is out of alignment from the miter slot, its causing the work piece to get pinched between the saw blade and the fence. This could someday make a dangerous situation. I would much rather get it dialed in as best I can while i'm tuning up the saw. Scrubbed the trunion gears and lubed them up, replaced the set screws on the motor mount because the previous owner stripped them out pretty good. going to clean up the top of my saw and then I should be ready to rock.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Bill, you're right about wood moving, so cutting tolerances aren't completely critical, but with the machines we use, alignment and tuning IS critical. We reference off of the surfaces of the machines, and if they're off, the problem areas become amplified throughout the entire machining process.

Examples:
Jointer infeed and outfeed tables and blades, planer tables and blades, tablesaw blade to miter slot, tablesaw blade to fence, crosscut sled fence, router baseplate centering, etc.

One more thing; when aligning my blade, I pick a blade tooth, mark it with a sharpie and use it as my reference checking the blade at the front and back with that tooth. I also don't position the indicator tip right on the tooth; I put it right behind the tooth.


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Hey guys! Well I got my pals today, and when i tried to install it, I found out my saw is really screwed up.

the saw was slanted towards the right, and even when i moved the back trunion all the way to the left and the front trunion all the way to the right, it was still off by 50-60 thousandths.

I dismantled the whole saw, cleaned everything up and tried again, same out of alignment problem.

My only thought now is that I take the trunions off and elongagte the holes that the bolts/studs go through and make them wider in the direction that the trunions need to move.

Has anybody ever had to do this before? I'm not too worried about how to make the holes wider, but rather if anybody has run into a problem by doing this.


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

What kind of saw are you adjusting? I don't see that you mentioned that? That is a very large error even for a cheap saw are you sure you are not missing something in the process that could be causing the error?


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

It's a powermatic 64,and I have loosened both the front and rear trunions, even taken the middle section out where the pulley and saw blade and motor mount to to see if I can get more movement on the front trunion. No luck. I'm pretty sure that's why the previous owner had the fence angled to the right slightly and ultimately why he upgraded to a unisaw.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Are the miter slots parallel to each other ? 
Do you get the same results measuring from both slots to your blade?


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't know if they are parallel, I will test this tonight, and also measure from both slots to the blade and see if it is off by the same amount from side to side.

That's a good point that the miter slots might be out of parallel.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Do you have a large framing square ?


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Yes I do have a large framing square.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Magnetic-Angle-Cube-Gage-Gauge-Level-Table-Saw-/370593885642?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5

Works for me


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Not quite sure how the digital angle finder applies to aligning my saw blade?

But yes I own a wixey digital angle finder and wixey digital protractor. A harbor freight dial indicator and a large framing square.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

when the zero appears on the wixey the table saw blade is 90 degrees.


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm not trying to align the blade angle, i'm trying to align the saw blade with the miter slot and fence so that all are parallel.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

http://www.newwoodworker.com/algntruns.html

I've read that the 64A suffers from table / blade alignment issues. I hope the link above will help you : )
I believe that *waho *thinks that you have a blade angle issue rather than an alignment issue.


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the link Dusty56, I'll give it a good read over.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

ah, parallel

got it. +1 for Dusty56 thanks.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

re; framing square (if known 100% square), place the short leg along the front of your table and see if the miter slots run true / square with the long leg on both sides of both miter slots. Also check the blade(@ 90 degrees) the same way, avoiding contact with the teeth if possible. Of course your saw is unplugged ! : )


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the link, but I did that whole procedure exactly, and even when I move the front trunion to the far left, and the rear trunion to the far right, I still have a blade that angles from the front right, to the rear left.

All of these are while viewing the turnions from the rear of the unit.

I'll check the miter slots for parallelism tonight and then I'll have to get my die grinder out, however I don't have a carbide bit. Might have to take it to my buddy's house.


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## steffen707 (Feb 14, 2012)

Good news, its fixed!

The miter slots were parallel and I took the trunions to my friends house and he used his lathe to widen the holes. I was able to adjust the saw enough to get it within 1-3 thousandths. That's a ton better than 70 thousandths.

Now I need to lubricate everything and torque all the bolts and adjust the fence.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Congratulations !!


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