# one man operation



## woodworkingdrew (Dec 29, 2013)

Is it possible to run a cab/woodworking shop by yourself or do you need employees? Just curious to see what people think- Andrew


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

I think the woodworking shop is a yes.

Cabinet, is probably not bad for assembling and doing the shop work and finishing, but I think you need a helper if you are going to install a kitchen….well more than once anyway.

Cabinets are a volume business, and someone to help cut up sheet goods and crank out operations with speed, I think 2 people is a more realistic minimum.


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## woodworkingdrew (Dec 29, 2013)

Dirt- I agree. I would like to just do the design and fabrication and have a contractor do the install. California has pretty strict rules regarding work over a certain amount


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I heard a saying once behind every successful woodworker is a woman with a good job.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

My sister says my ex-brother in law used to say that. Guess she got tired of supporting the biz ;-)


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

I've been supporting myself and my wife working my 1 man shop since 2006. 
The way it works for me is that I split a shop with a buddy. (Cuts the bills in half)
We both do our own thing but when either one of us needs a hand, whether it's lifting something or installing, there's someone to help.
I think it would be pretty hard to do a lot of things without a helper, but I guess it depends on what your going to do.
I do anything from furniture to built-ins to the odd kitchen every once in a while. 
Everything is commissioned, 
I don't make anything, then try to sell it.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You can do it but it will limit how and what jobs you do.

Especially with a CNC and edgebander one person can
crank out a lot of work.

If you're going to do the cabinetmaker hustle, it's a tough
trade to learn and there's a lot to it. The hours can be
grueling. One way to perhaps enjoy it more and make
more money is to develop proprietary designs which are
too complicated for other shops to knock off.

If you're just competing in the commodity cabinet area
it's not easy. One cabinetmaker I met recently told
me he has his helper do most of the cabinetmaking and he
does the sanding and finishing, confessing that it's hard
to find competent sanding help.

You might consider developing as a finisher and doing refinishing.
You can market to interior designers who always want 
stuff refinished or faux painted… along the way they'll 
ask you to modify things and if they like that eventually
they'll ask for mantles, entertainment centers and so forth.


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

I've got a friend that has been a one man cabinet shop for about 15 years. He's high dollar and builds only one set at a time.

He does it all, design, builds his own doors, turns his own legs, does his own carvings, makes all the trim work, finishing, counter tops, etc. Dovetails his drawers and uses no plywood drawers and no plywood end panels. He gets friends to help him install. He more or less subs nothing out.

He has a 12 week min. build time he tells his clients but can do a small set in 6 weeks. He gets 50% down and has a min. draw of $500.00 a week and bases that on the cost of the cabinets. He's doing a set now where his draw is 1K a week and told me today it should be about a 10 week build. He told me the balance his client will owe him after the install will be about 6K. His draws and final payment are his labor. I didn't ask the price of the cabinets.

He does all of this in a 24' x 40' shop. Owns his building, equipment with very little overhead, pays cash for everything, owns a beautiful home and drives a new truck about every 3 years paid for.

He also told me today he's four sets of cabinets out and he lives in an area where there are several large cabinet shops and doesn't per say bid on a job. He gives his price and holds to it.

He's good and people know it and know his cabinets don't come from nor look like they came from a production shop.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Read Jim Tolpin's book "Working at Woodworking".

I think there's a newer version called "Become a Cabinetmaker" 
or something like that.


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

A 100% 1 man cabinet shop isn't going to happen. A 100% 1 man built kitchen is. The descrepency here is time, 1 man cannot produce enough work to effectively run a cabinet shop do installs and support himself on a reasonable wage.

A good portion of a cabinet shop is out of the shop consulting if you are doing custom cabinets, measuring, talking with clients etc. when your out of the shop doing this no monetary work is getting done, your spending money on gas etc.

Paul


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Working 100% solo long-term is an uphill battle. Nearly every woodworker I've met that has a decent income has help in some form or another. There's a minimum overhead to cover every month and the solo woodworker has to handle administrative tasks, finances, customer relations, design and shop maintenance besides doing the actual money-making work.

Under those conditions, it's not easy to get more than 40 productive hours in a week and even with low overhead, it's not unheard of for the first 20 working hours of the month to go towards paying off rent, insurance and utilities. Then vehicle bills and reinvestment takes another large chunk.

I could solo if I wanted to but only because I'd have help in the form of computerized tools that can be productive without direct input from myself. But you have to save up the money or take a loan to get those tools in the first place.

Starting out alone is fine but long-term, there's usually better return for everybody if multiple people are working towards the same goal. The solo entrepreneur should plan to invest a lot into tools and equipment to compensate for lack of manpower.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

It's rough just building a couple plywood cabs by myself. For myself or friends.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I might have some relevant insite. I am not a one man shop. It is my wife and I. At this time we outsource our bookkeeping, our doors. We hire out installation on very large jobs and do our own installs on smaller jobs. My wife does 40+ hours per week shop and job site. I do less hours than her shop/job site but do tons of other related tasks such as planning, bidding, purchasing, etc… We just purchased a CNC and hope we will improve production as a result, but until now my experience has been purely old iron machines and manual processing.

What am I getting at. Should something happen to my wife. Shop is closed. I'm done. Lock the doors. Her memory alone will kill me. Besides I doubt I could continue efficiently without her.


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## JohnO1955 (May 16, 2012)

I am attempting the same journey - unlike a previous post - I am the one with the full time job too…so my time in the shop is in between everything else. For me the biggest issue is pricing - I don't do cabinets (kitchen) just not enough room etc. I do one job at a time, all commissioned and I am finally starting to get my pricing to the point where I walk away from the job like I didn't work for $8 an hour. Single person shop is very hard - there is so much involved in taking a piece of raw wood from start to finish - I use a couple of friends to help when the volume or weight gets to be too much, so far so good.
I am selective in the work I pick, based on my skill and space…try not to get in over my head (very easy to do).
Last year I did 22 projects (total billing 23K), ranging from a small jewelry box to a set of 8 foot long TV cabinets…didn't make any money (my fault), worked my butt off, but learned a lot.

Always have someone who can help in the background - the best suggestion I saw here was to share a big space - I'm looking to do that soon. Don't be timid about asking for good money - as long as your skill level matches the bill…

John O
www.custommade.com/by/jhostudios


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Andrew,

To answer your question; yes, you can run a Cabinet/woodworking shop by yourself, but the real question is; how much to you want,need or expect to make doing woodworking.

*The disadvantage to running a one man shop is;*

1. When you're not in the shop, your shop is closed.

2. You wear "all" the hats; designing, selling, purchasing supplies, building, finishing, delivery and installations, follow-up, clean-up, maintance and all the administrative duties that go with owning a business
.
3. You have to design and engineer projects to be delivered and installed as a one man band.

4. If something is wrong or there's a problem, you get to take all the blame. (can't blame it on an employee).

5. Scheduling of your time is critical. It has to be a perfect blend of how much time to spend at marketing and sales, designing, material acqusition, administrative duties, actually building projects and of course installations.

6. If you ever decide to sell your business, it's basically worth only what your tools are worth at that time, all the rest of the value in your business is YOU.

7. Vacations, sick time, (yours or your families) or just days off directly affects your business and bottom line.

I know, it sounds like I'm negative about a one man shop, but I'm not. These where all things I had to figure out and accept when I decided to keep my shop as a "one man band".

*For me, the advantages of being a one man shop worked out fine.*

1. It taught me to take total charge of my life; I had to learn to say "no" when I was presented an unrealistic time schedule if I was to get a contract. It was up to me to schedule my time, not someone else or their schedule.

2. I realized my business was "Me". It would be totally up to me if I was to be successful or failed.

3. I had to realize there where only so many hours in a day ( the same 24 as everyone else), so I had better make the best use of it.

4. I love working by myself, I'm not into management or babysitting. I love to take all the credit for a job well done and not afraid to take responsiblity if something is wrong.

5. It was much easier to adjust and adapt when things slowed down. I had one paycheck to worry about!

6. I realized I didn't need employee's to get extra work accomplished. Known as outsourceing.

7. * Pricing, marketing and selling had to be a top priority if I was to make a good living.*

8. For me, it left a real opening to sales and marketing. So many bigger shops had to stay focused on only what they were set-up for. Another words, if they were a cabinet shop, most didn't want to fool with doing a custom home office, bar unit, entertainment centers, etc. They couldn't make a profit if they had to change their everyday set-up of running cabinets.

It left the door wide open for me. Those were the jobs that I could get creative and make the most money at. I didn't have to rely on just one market or "one room" of the home to market to. It gave me the chance to build furniture as well as cabinetry.

Like I said before, it will depend on the individual and how much they need, want or expect to make from their business.

*Here's a simple question you can ask yourself; If you can bill and get paid for 40 hours a week @ a shop labor rate of $50.00/hr. as a one man shop and working 50 weeks in the year, is $100,000/yr. enough? (materials billed seperately).*

Just asking : ) or : (


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Best of luck in your venture. Judging from your other posts re: basic face frame construction, I would suggest you really do your research, and spend you time working out the kinks before you put any money on the line.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I've built a couple of kitchens on the side by myself but that was when I was a much younger man. I couldn't do it now. I'm older and have bad knees and a bad back. I'll still build a large piece every now and then but I have to watch myself. I think that kitchen cabinets is something that a one man shop should stay away from.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

I've been everything from a one man shop building one kitchen a month to a 40 man shop putting out a house full of cabinets a day. One man is usually not enough, but 40 men was too many headaches.
My favorite was just two of us. We were older and didn't want bosses or employees. We both knew our strengths and weaknesses. I did the design, sales and ordering. He did the planning, cutting and organizing of the parts. We worked together to edgeband, assemble and finish and I did the install and collections.


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## woodworkingdrew (Dec 29, 2013)

Bing- I totally agree with your post, I would need to learn more before going into production. I was more or less interested if it was a possibility to run a shop like this. I should also add I have a full time job and enjoy doing woodworking on the side for family and friends.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

One man shop here. I would love to have help, but can't justify it at this point.


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## CTM2012 (Jun 24, 2012)

I am not in business, but i have been talking with a lot of people that are in business for themselves, and are doing well. If you are interested you can check out some of the interviews I've done with craftsmen who are making their living through their work, and in there craft. check it out when you have the opportunity www.craftsmansroad.com and if you have any feedback I would be grateful to know what you think of these interviews. Good luck.


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## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

A one man shop has the highest overhead percentage.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

i do cabs still from time to time 
pushing panels and banding and boring 
and assembling and finishing
is a lot more work than i need

i outsource to this company for the boxes themselves

(they will make them in any size/configuration you might need)
and will even order special ply's 
standard is melamine in a few colors
or MDF for painted ones

i send them an order inquiry
they send me back a quote
to take to the customer
the customer pays for the cabs/delivery

they send me a list of door and drawer front sizes
with each inquiry

i just make the wood parts in whatever style needed
and do the install
while the sides are flat on the table
all hardware is installed

the parts come on pallets ready for assembly
you need to make kicks and supply all hardware

just do get some scribe fillers
so the drawers open in an inside corner
without banging into the knobs

they have dowel and conformat (screws) assembly 
whichever you might like

while they are making the boxes and any parts
i can do the wood

saves allot of back breaking work
and cuts the time down to a few weeks or a month at most

check it out
you might be surprised


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## barringerfurniture (Sep 17, 2013)

It's hard. Everything's hard.


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

Not a cabinet shop but I do have a full time one-man woodworking shop. I'm so far behind on my orders that I can always use help. I have tried different people to help in different ways but it just seems nobody can do the work as efficiently or as high quality as I must have done.

There are so many on-going decisions that must be made regarding things such as how to best use a piece of wood and what is acceptable and what is not. It defeats the purpose if I have to continually look over my helper's shoulder to be sure he's on track.

Plus, I just don't feel like I can wait for any helper to get acceptably proficent on each machine and each operation. I need the help now, not awhile later, after I have sacrificed my time to teach and wasted the hours that could have been productive for both of us. It's a nagging and aggravating problem with seemingly, no good solution.

I have tried farming out some of the work to other woodworkers and woodshops but, there go all the profits for that order.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Yonak, sounds like you could raise your prices. It will help weed out some of the low-paying work and give you more time for the profitable jobs.

Plus, if you outsource and find all your profits are gone, that's a clue you're underbidding. Proper outsourcing should actually save money and not cost more.


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

JAAune, I definitely could stand raise prices and I plan to toward the end of the year. It will help on many fronts.

..But if I try to outsource and he charges the same thing I charge my customer, then that's a sign my prices are on par and I still make no profit.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Yonak, I agree with JAAune, sounds like you could raise your prices. This is not some get rich quick deal at all, and surely you have to work hard for your living doing this, but you need to make enough money on a job to efficiently and effectively complete the job. The budget should be substantial enough to allow for paying outside help when needed. Such as with us, we outsource our doors, in some projects I outsource the installation (only on larger jobs though).

Our current prices are fair market and sufficient. But I will say a lady recently emailed me complaining about the price on our bid and indicated she could get more from another shop for almost 50% our cost. That is very very doubtful unless slaves working for free are doing the job, and even then they would be going without food.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

If a prospect is emailing you to say that, it's because they
don't believe the competitor can deliver. It's whining, and
that's annoying, but it's a sign of a prospect coming to
grips with reality.

There's a book called "How to Sell at Prices Higher Than Your Competitors" 
which is worth a read. Covers arithmetic in detail and 
buyer psychology.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Last year I was called to look at a kitchen remodel and
was surprised to find the people both living in the house
and the kitchen completely torn out.

The "cabinetmaker" they has hired told them he had
a shop but did all the work in their garage. It was a condo
and the neighbors complained. The guy disappeared
leaving a contractor saw, etc. and some plywood.

I reckon he lowballed the bid so bad he figured he
should skip town and lose the tools. The client wondered
if he'd been picked up by the police.

When I told the client how much to finish the job 
(frameless, paint grade, all drawer lowers with concealed
slides).... well, he didn't call me back.

Lesson? they paid too little expecting too much, got
burned, then wanted somebody to come and take
a loss to finish the job.


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## rrww (Aug 12, 2012)

As a disclaimer we produce wood products for a specific industry that closely relate to fancy individual cabinets, we do not do kitchens.

We started this as a hobby 7 years ago and now that its a "real" business we have increased prices over 400% since the early days. At first I had the worst feeling about raising my prices. (You have to afford rent, insurance, equipment upgrades, etc.) Our big selling point at first was our low prices (what a mistake- it didn't work that well) Now that I have done it 3 - 4 times it don't phase me one bit. Each time we raise the price we find that you always loose a few customers, you have a select few couple that complain a little - but pay the bill, and you gain new customers. Increasing our prices has gained us tons of new customers. The customers you loose are generally ones that are shopping by price and don't care about quality & what you offer. Leave those people to buy from home depot - you don't want those anyway. The new customers you gain care about the quality, features and customer service you offer.

We are in a competitive market where we compete with huge companies that raise their prices by 5% - 10% every year, we are doing a 3.5% - 5% increase yearly no one has said anything about these small yearly increases. We don't get greedy with it. We sell on quality of construction & finish, and offering the customer custom options. When we have a sale call we spend 90% of the time talking about features and what we can offer them (educating the customer) - based on their particular situation, and it works most of the time. We don't make a sale to every customer that calls, if I did it means my prices are way too cheap.

Bottom line - raise your prices and see what happens - It just don't pay to be cheap.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

+1 on JAAune, Jerry, Loren and rrww,

All four pretty well sums it up! I've seen a lot more woodworkers fail as a business because they price their work too low, than pricing their work too high. Don't get me wrong, you can difintely price your work too high, but I just think that's in our nature; we want to be able to "make a sale" to everyone we talk to ( doesn't happen), but most of the time it's the lack of "educating" and "selling" more than your prices being too high.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

Yonack "But if I try to outsource and he charges the same thing I charge my customer, then that's a sign my prices are on par and I still make no profit."

That's because you are outsourcing to other retail cabinet shops. Of course they have the same pricing schedule as you. You need to outsource to wholesalers. Company's that make doors, drawer boxes and specialty moldings. Not the guy down the street that does the same stuff you do. Get this magazine and start researching wholesale manufacturers. http://www.freetrademagazines.com/kitchen-bath-design-news-magazine/interior-design-furniture-fashions-magazines/?cid=9304&gclid=Cj0KEQjw3cKeBRDG-KKqqIj4qJgBEiQAOamX_Rc5yI1uzxistI4lpWOIuKEmqFYHrKIIIH2LfJj5A-UaArvE8P8HAQ


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> Yonak, sounds like you could raise your prices. It will help weed out some of the low-paying work and give you more time for the profitable jobs.
> 
> Plus, if you outsource and find all your profits are gone, that s a clue you re underbidding. Proper outsourcing should actually save money and not cost more.
> 
> - JAAune





> Yonack "But if I try to outsource and he charges the same thing I charge my customer, then that's a sign my prices are on par and I still make no profit."
> 
> That s because you are outsourcing to other retail cabinet shops. Of course they have the same pricing schedule as you. You need to outsource to wholesalers. Company s that make doors, drawer boxes and specialty moldings. Not the guy down the street that does the same stuff you do. Get this magazine and start researching wholesale manufacturers. http://www.freetrademagazines.com/kitchen-bath-design-news-magazine/interior-design-furniture-fashions-magazines/?cid=9304&gclid=Cj0KEQjw3cKeBRDG-KKqqIj4qJgBEiQAOamX_Rc5yI1uzxistI4lpWOIuKEmqFYHrKIIIH2LfJj5A-UaArvE8P8HAQ
> 
> - Earlextech


JAAune and Sam, the things I make are not common items. They are dedicated products in a small niche market. My main competition is China.

The only people I can go to are other woodworkers. Indeed, woodworkers who really know what they are doing. I can't go to a guy who's got a drill press in his garage because his work quality will not make the cut. My main advantage over the items made in China is my superior quality. I would lose that advantage if I supply shoddy stuff.

When I ask another woodowrker to help with overflow, he charges me a price which is commensurate with what I charge my customer (understandably, as that is fair price). When I, then, sell it to my customer, I can only charge the fair price.

It seems to me, my best course is to find a young woodworker whom I can train to do things the right way and pay him by the hour but, the problem is, I can't take the time to do that because I'm covered over with work. It's a classic Catch 22.

In my state, woodworking is no longer taught in school. There is plenty of electronics and medical worker training but, I guess, woodworking is considered a hobby art anymore.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

After reading over my reply, I just want to say this : I hate to sound like I'm complaining. I have no reason to. I have it good. I'm not going to hire a young helper, even though, right now, I wish I had help. I'll be retiring in a few years and I'll be raising some prices in the fall and all's good.


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## LeTurbo (Jan 22, 2014)

Hmm. I'm running into this situation now, where I'll have to bring in someone if a few promised jobs come in. A klitchen, a restaurant refit, and two cabinets within two weeks. What I'll do is get someone in just to make the carcasses. The rest, I'll have to look after myself. But fortunately, this "semi-skilled labour" is easily come by locally.

Strangely, all this has happened since I raised prices dramatically. I began taking careful note of time especially, and know I still undercharge on that. But I whop 30% on for materials, and now add 20% to the final total as a profit margin. Things are getting better.

I want to thank Huff especially - go look for his blog here on LJs. He put a new perspective on my pricing policies, and the jobs I take on.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Ive gone both ways on this and equals out the same as far as profit and stress.Now I mainly am a one man shop i got tired of baby sitting all day.One man shop is possible just say goodbye to your free time.Alot less stress and over head without employees.


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