# Just not the same anymore.



## cajunpen (Apr 9, 2007)

Thanks for the review Daniel. I'm in the market for a hand held plunge router and although the 690 isn't a plunge (I don't think anyway) I might just have to pass on the PC brand - I've seen a lot of bad reviews on PC products lately.


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## FloridaUFGator (May 31, 2007)

Well that explains a lot. I just bought their new 24" Dovetail Omnijig while I was at the Atlanta woodworking show and they threw this router in for free (D-Handle and all). I was thinking I was getting a great deal. I haven't even opened the box yet. Thanks for preparing me. Maybe I should sell it on eBay and use the funds for a Festool. It seems that is the only company that isn't cutting corners these days. I know they are extremely expensive but every Festool tool I own is superb and I think worth every penny.

SIDE NOTE: I've already told myself I will NOT buy from PC again. When I bought the Omnijig the PC salesman emphatically promised me it would be on my doorstep in one-week (2 at the very most were his exact words). I bit hook, line and sinker. 5-weeks later and no Omnijig. After several phone calls and emails I finally received it. I will say it is a very impressive dovetail jig but it will be my last purchase from this company (sorry Norm).


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## naperville (Jan 28, 2008)

Danial,
That's too bad. They are both doing the exact same thing? For the past 6 years, I've only bought PC 690 (4 of them) and they all run great and I've never had a problem with them.

Tom


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

I've had the same experience! Belt sander and router…and air guns. Never again!


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

My PC 690 works great 2 of them. I bought 3 used 890's and they all seem to be great.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm glad that I haven't had that problem. I have 4 of them.


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

my 690 is over ten years old still running strong


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## pinkiewerewolf (Mar 14, 2008)

All my tools were stolen a few years ago and with them was my trusty 690. I had used it on 4 log homes for mostly freehand straight routing to protect and run electrical wire and to round over trim. It was a workhorse.
Home Depot was having a sale a couple of months ago with a bundle package that included a free random orbit sander. Since that was stolen also, I opted to buy the package.
Both have worked well.
I think this shows that PC needs to step up the quality control a couple of notches.
Consistancy needs to be the standard, not the exception.
I've been hearing some of these tales lately too and I can't remember where my old 690 was built, but this one was created south of the border. (Motor & base)


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## hobbylogger (Mar 26, 2008)

"wow" This has really hit home with some fellow wood workers, on both sides of the fence. those of you like Dan, and others who are loyal to your 690s, trust me, I am very pleased that your machines are performing as expected. I to still have a 690 that has been my trusted friend for 15 yrs and the only thing I have replaced is the brushes. I use it still. I have used P.C. belt sanders that are older than me that ran like champs, and I'm pushin 50, my point is not to bash P.C. products, but my latest experiences with these valued commodities, has shown a trend not exsclusive to P.C. That trend unfortunetly, is that the days of products out lasting us is coming to a close, and a new genaration of borderline disposable products is rising, why?...."well", thats just the way it is. It's just not the same anymore. thanks you guys for expressing your opinions, It shows that we do care about the same things after all, and thanks to L.J. for giving us this platform.


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## Dominic (Oct 22, 2007)

This is an interesting Bog. I think we all know the profit is not a dirty word and that's why the tool and many other things are disposable. Most of us purchase things, wood, tools, rags ect. and we are all looking for the least expensive for our hard earned monies. This is what happens to Corperations. They are working for our dollars by making their products cheaper. Most of the time cheaper is losting some thing, and thats a product that is no long built to last. That simply means the bearings are not ball bearing any more there oil lite bearings. The cases of some routers care plastic. The switch is not going to stand up to as many on off cycles. The base is of plexiglass not polycarbonate. You can go on and on. This is how a manufacture get business by lowering the cost to win the Purchase order. Did you note that the old router are srill running well and the owners love them. And the new routers are crap. This is why. Next time you purchase a tool look at where its made. We all know. NOT IN THE GOOD OLD USA. Will I spend $380.00 for a sander. NO. But I don't use a sander every day. The other reason you don't want your tools to last forever is that tools change. I've had an old electric Miluwkee drill for 20 years but always pick up my battery Drill first.


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## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

My PC belt sander is a piece of junk, & I bought mine quite a few years ago, thinking it was the best.

The fan blades are made of plastic, that was when it had blades.

I recently bought a cheap one at Harbor Freight, & I like it.


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

Well fellowworker it use to be PC was all I would buy as well …I'm not sure of the time frame but most of the housing and some of the motors are now made overseas not in Jackson Tenn…so if you own a five year or older PC keep it and cherish it because the newer ones just don't compare….Blkcherry


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## RonPage (Apr 9, 2008)

This is just a shame. Over the years, things just keep getting cheaper and cheaper. What's unfortunate is that there'll be a new crop of woodworkers coming up who'll think what they're buying is great…the same people who think McDonald's makes a fabulous hamburger only because they don't know any better.

They'll look back twenty years from now, think how much better the tools were in 2008 and they'll be right. It's only going to get worse.

My stationary tools (band saw, drill press etc) are Craftsman from the 50's, 60's and 70's. I could go on all day about how great they are but wouldn't recommend any new Craftsman tools.

Now Porter Cable? Wow.


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## RonPage (Apr 9, 2008)

Dominic,

I used an old Milwaukee drill to drive screws on a fence today. It has so much torque, I had to lightly feather the trigger.

That thing would twist your head off!


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## kjverlanic (May 28, 2008)

So far all 3 PC 690 we have gotten in the last year or so have been great! We haven't had one problem with any of them. I agree with some that excellence needs to be the standard, not the exception.


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## connors (Feb 8, 2008)

We as consumers get just what we want … cheap products. When we purchase these things that is what we are telling corporate America. All over these forums I hear the same refrain "Whats the best deal on this or that?" All most, NOT ALL, concern themselves with is getting the best deal. Then when they buy from some fly-by-night internet outfit and have a problem with CS, they seem aghast! I read all these "gloats" and am reminded of a school yard after xmas break with all the kids doing "na-na-na-na-na-na" to each other over their toys (read tools) they got!

The bottom line: you can't have it all. Quality or price … you have to choose. America chooses price. Thats why virtually everything is made in China these days.


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

You deserve a better product than that Daniel.


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## Darell (Jul 23, 2008)

Since the wages paid to Chinese workers are virtually non-existant the labor to build a quality tool shouldn't have anythng to do with it's price. It does, though, because the main interest for corporations is profit, not quality or cost. That's why inferior products are being made by "Name Brand" companies. Cheap labor + cheap materials = inferior products at cheap prices and inflated profits for the corporations to enrich the share holders. That's the way of our world and, sadly, it's what we have to llive with.


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## TheHarr (Sep 16, 2008)

Wow, what mind blower! PC quality turning to crap! I've been a loyal PC fan for years because I could count on their quality. I put quality first, followed by price.

Thanks for the warning, it looks like I'll have to abandon my PC loyalilty and look else where for the quality I expect. I'll go the extra bucks for a good performing tool that I can easily find replacement parts and accessories.

Does anyone have any suggestions?
I don't know what to think.
Your buddy, TheHarr


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

I see lots of forums blaming price, price, price for the move to China of all woodworking tools manufacture. But does this make any sense?

Our scrap prices in this country are rising because the Chinese import most of their raw materials to build product. They just don't have the infrastructure to mine, process and distribute their own raw materials yet. So, they buy scrap in our country, ship it across the Pacific, manufacture it into finished goods, ship it back across the Pacific and still manage to sell it for less than stuff manufactured in the USA. Does this make sense? No, part of the equation is missing here - actually, several parts:

1. Chinese companies don't have to support CEO, CFO, etc that make $millions, even $billions. Further, the ratio of management to workers in any Chinese company is approximately 1/2 that of an equivalent American company.
2. Chinese workers aren't taxed to the tune of 50% for all wages they make. In the US taxes, both direct and indirect, have almost reached the level of 50%. That automatically doubles the real cost of any wages in this country.
3. Ever since the signing of NAFTA, companies have been given huge tax breaks to manufacture anything out of the country. That helps offset any costs of shipping and it was written into NAFTA specifically for this reason.

There are signs that this is changing with the recent increase in fuel costs. Many companies that moved manufacturing to China in the days of cheap(er) fuel costs are now moving manufacturing back to the US after the recent rise in fuel costs.

As for getting what we ask for - I would gladly pay more for quality. I find that I can pay more, but I can't get any better quality. All manufacturers have jumped on that Chinese profit wagon. The finish and reliability of all tools in any price range have plummeted as a result. Small wonder: have ever tried to ensure QA across 1/2 a world? My own response to this has been to favor older tools. Although I may spend more reworking and refurbishing an older tool, when I am done I usually have a much better tool.


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## MrWoody (Jan 25, 2008)

I notice no one has mentioned who now owns Delta, Porter Cable.


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## Tinyshop (Sep 1, 2007)

Thank you EEngineer. I wasn't sure how to aproach this part of the equation but now I don't have to!


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