# When you think "shelves" what do they look like?



## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

I have been building a bookshelf for a customer. When she approached me about the job, she said she wanted a bookshelf. I asked a few questions about size, etc, and came back with some design specs and this drawing:









We agreed on the price and I got started. I've been sending her progress pics with each development through the steps of gathering reclaimed lumber, cleaning, drying, milling, and finally the assembly.

All was good until I sent her a near-completion pic today (pic taken before bookend braces were added):









She said "it's beautiful! Where's the back?"?

Now, to me, a shelf if just a shelf, no sides or back (except on this one I was going to add some bookend braces, not in the original drawing). A case, on the other hand, is a shelf that has sides and a back. A cabinet is a case with doors. I thought that's just how it is.

I also thought that my drawing was pretty clear about showing that the sides and back were open, although now when I look at it, I realize I could have added a rear view and/or expressly written that there was no sides or back to the piece.

I explained my thought process to her and we worked out where the confusion had come in. I explained that adding a back would cost more and take more time, as I needed to gather, dry and mill more wood to match the design. This was all fine, and we're back on the same page.

So all is well with the customer, and I'm still building a beautiful shelf, with a back. In the future I will be more careful to talk about what is not being built as well!

*My question to you all is: What is a shelf, a case, a cabinet?* Are my notions in order, or have I just created my own arbitrary definitions of these items?

Thanks for reading!

ps. ~ I'll post a blog or project about this full build once it is delivered


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I think your notions are, essentially, in order.

However, when I think of a shelf, I usually think of something that is secured to a wall. To me, shelves that are contained in a stand alone piece of furniture with its own legs is sort of an oddball thing.

I'm sure the quality of your work is very good. Nonetheless, with the weight of a books on each shelf I would be concerned about this thing leaning without a back and sides or, at the very least, cross bracing.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks Rich! I guess I'm talking more specifically about standalone units like this:









If it is wall mounted or builtin, I'd just call it a wall mounted shelf or a built in shelf.

As for the shelf I built, the bookend braces are diagonal braces, and there are more diagonal braces on the back that aren't in the above picture.


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## JockChris (Dec 15, 2011)

I think if you over load this unit your going to have some racking going on. Not enough bracing as richgreer has noted. On a side note I like it. I would liked the sides to be solid with and open back.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks Chris, glad you like the design!
The photo I used above was not a completion pic. I've definitely got cross bracing in there to control the racking. I'll post more pics when I get em!


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## JockChris (Dec 15, 2011)

cool … can't wait to see it when your done.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks WudnHevn! I do use Sketchup for more complicated projects. Point taken about the contracts - though I actually tend to get too detail oriented in contracts (if that's possible), to the point where I feel like I'm spending too much time on them and need to be doing other things like building stuff! So I've tried to resolve that tendency by just outlining things with drawings and emails. Still working to attain that happy medium, I guess.

To me the sides and back are what makes the difference between the terms "bookshelf" and "bookcase". I've got a couple of what I would call bookshelves in the house, but mostly bookcases


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

True! Luckily she was very cool about the miscommunication. When she asked if a back could be added to this, I told her it would take more time and cost more to salvage and process more reclaimed material suitable for the design.
I also gave her the option starting over and just building an all out bookcase in regular hardwood ply, but she is really into reclaimed and rustic! 
This kinda sucks in a way because I wouldn't mind having these shelves myself! The frame is made of old tongue and groove fir flooring, laminated together into beams. I ripped off most of the shoulders of the grooved sides, which left a cool kind of a racing stripe effect along all the frame edges. I don't know if I'll ever come across similarly patina'ed flooring to be able to do the same thing again!


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

It all depends,


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

@devann - yep those are definitely shelves! ...no wait, maybe they are racks?!

I'm thinking the most relevant lesson for me here is that a 1 word description of a piece of furniture leaves a bit of room for interpretation. I'll try to widen my ears next time!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I would call your design, shelves. When I hear bookshelf, I imagine either a cabinet with three sides enclosed (bookcase) or a single open shelf.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

Shelves can come in many varieties. However BOOK shelves typically have sides and a back in order to keep the books from falling all over the place.

You have curios, which are smaller shelves, which may or may not have a back, but tend to hang on walls. Or they can be short free standing shelves, typically however they are shallow in depth.

Open shelves, for placing various things on have no sides or back, are what you had going on here though. They are typically used for electronics, vase and other such decorative sundries.

Then we could get into styles, but it's best to get to know the customer a bit, go to their house look around and try to define what their style is, or wether they don't really have one, in which case you try to blend their multiple styles together. Granted I'm a carpenter not a designer, but my customers typically can't afford designers so…

Honestly though, if it's a real point of frustration for you, get some books and do some studying. Don't get so hung up on what the customer syntax, so much as what they are asking for.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I probably need to amend what I said a little. In my garage I have a couple of shelving units that are stand alone units with no backs or sides. One is made of steel and has some cross bracing. Another is made of plastic.

It is more accurate for me to say that I consider shelves that are contained in a in-the-house, stand alone piece of furniture with its own legs is sort of an oddball thing. Perhaps, without realizing it, I am thinking of a unit without sides or back to be an in-the-garage or in-the-utility room functional storage device.


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## doncutlip (Aug 30, 2008)

Here's some 'shelves'


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I think your customer, not being a woodworker was not making a distinction between bookshelf and bookcase to her they are the same and have a back. In the drawing that you made it is not clear to me that there is no back. But really a "book storage unit" needs a back. It is interesting how two people can look at the same thing and not see it the same way.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

So the general consensus is that bookshelves and bookcases are the same thing, and both have sides and a back. I guess I was designing for a more minimal, stripped down style, and figured the cross bracing would eliminate need for sides and a back. Books won't fall out the back unless they have round bottoms! I also like furniture that is open and lets more light around the room.

Upon further consideration, I have decided that I like the open design of these shelves so much that I am going to keep them for myself and gather enough additional materials to build her a full bookcase 

So the problem now is, what do I call my sideless, backless bookcase? Perhaps I'll dub this piece "shelf, with books"


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I would agree with you Jesse. My notion of a bookshelf is something open like the one you made. A bookcase to me is something closed in the rear and sides. I have found over the years that people that want you to build something sometimes have a totally different perspective of what they want, and sometimes they dont always use the right terminology. Best to have lots of pictures and written info on how it will be built before you start.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Great question. I don't think we'll ever get to universality on this sort of thing. The burden is on us to communicate, via paper and words, what we are proposing. In this case, calling out a back with a material note or something like that, and getting the client's signature on the design, would have headed off the glitch.

Side note: Are these things (whatever we agree to call them) universally 12" deep? I often get clients requesting that, but then I show them books and unless we're talking railroads, art, aircraft or volcanoes, it's hard to find books that wide. I usually talk them down to 10 inches or so and they are pleased with the gracefulness of the product.

Sorry, I think I'm hijacking here.

Kindly,

Lee


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks, SnowyRiver!

LeeBarker - I went with 12"deep for a couple reasons:
1) A deeper footprint for more stability since it is a standalone unit.
2) I have a few books that poke out past the edges of my 10"deep shelves, so I figure it's better to have more than enough than not enough. I also just like the look of the shelf being deeper than the books, so there is extra shelf space in front of the books. Maybe that has to do with working in an old library with deep shelves when I was younger. I'm also a storage junkie (read "packrat"?), so I tend to set other things on the shelves in front of the books (mugs, stationery, other books that I'm currently referencing and want to keep out in the open…)

HA! I guess I built these shelves for myself after all!


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Lee, I agree with you that we need to be specific in what we describe. It like potatoe or potato. I have learned the best thing to do when describing a project is to spell out every little thing with what is and isn't there.

Jesse, It doesn't matter what you or I or LJ's call, it matters what the paying customer calls it.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

@Puzzleman - Well, she called it beautiful, but she also hasn't paid yet… XD


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I'll throw my hat in the ring and say anything with the word 'book' in it is enclosed. I would categorize what you have made as storage shelves. Nice job, by the way. If they are not moving from where they're put you could just screw them to a wall, preserve the look as is, no braces needed. Two screws thru the bottom of the top shelf and packed out.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks Renners! They are storage shelves, ...for storing books!


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