# Help needed to select a Fire and Security Alarm systems



## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

After what happened last week to Monte and because of another thread, I am thinking about installing a wireless fire, smoke,security system.
My shop is separated from my house and anything can happen in it with out me ever knowing it.
I use a wood stove in my shop and more and more people know about my shop and the tools inside.
I think that little prevention is good idea.
Do you have any experience with such systems?
What are your recommendation?
I am looking at system such as this one on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009ZR4K2S/ref=s9_simh_gw_p60_d0_i6?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1NN97YRT0PK5RHKZ3Y1W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846

Thank you for reading.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

no answer!


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I think a fire alarm would be a nice option, but I have a 64 pound four legged alarm system that protects mine, along with locked gates


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Bert all you really need is this guy right here from Harbor freight.

I use this same thing to protect my cars and cargo trailer out front, works great!

Alarm


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Randy thank you for your answer but,in my shop,I am mostly concerned about fire and my wife would like a security system in the house. 
I have a dog also.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Bert what you posted seems to be a pretty good deal, does it require a monthly service fee for an off site company provider to monitor system?


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Randy, Professional Monitoring Option (Additional Service Required)
This is just an example. There are may such systems on Amazon, some with better ratings.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_72_0?rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3AWireless+Home+Security+System%2Cp_72%3A1248879011&keywords=Wireless+Home+Security+System&ie=UTF8&qid=1390494948&rnid=1248877011


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## gtbuzz (Sep 19, 2011)

Are you wanting something that would dial the fire department too? If that's the case, you'll need something monitored.

If you're willing to go that route, I have a system from SafeMart that I absolutely love. You pay up front for the system, but there's no monthly contracts or anything. It's pretty neat. I accidentally set off the smoke detectors last week when I was cooking something a little too smoky indoors. I was able to disable the alarm, but within 30 seconds they were talking to me on the speaker (it's got 2-way voice) verifying that I had meant to cancel the alarm.

Your situation sounds very much like the one I was in. I really wanted it for fire monitoring more than anything, the security was a throw-in. Feel free to PM me for more details if you're interested. Or I can post here if you want me to. Didn't really want to turn your thread into an ad for someone.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

gtbuzz, please post here so that more people can read it if interested.
Thank you.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I like the concept of the system on Amazon, but the reviews didn't look very favorable. What happened to Monte has prompted me to sit down with my insurance agent to make sure everything will be covered in the event of an accident and if a fire and/or security system would do anything to reduce my premium. In the mean time, I put a second fire extinguisher in my shop for a little more piece of mind.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I also have two large fire extinguisher but I f I am not there to use them they do me no good.
A guess that a sprinkler system then would be an,expensive, solution and it does not protect from breakins


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

My security system is a sticker on the door that says,"this door is locked for your protection". That said, I also have 4 cameras around the house that covers the shop as well. If a break-in occur, it will be captured and stored for 5 days. Downside to that is an intruder might choose to burn the building to get rid of the recording. Neighborhood watch maybe an option. As it relates to fires, I am not sure if you have ever used your fire extinguishers or not; they spit out very little fluid, dust to put out a small fire. In case of Monty, fire extinguishers have no chance to put out a fire with winds over 50 miles an hour. I have a wood stove in the shop as well as in the house. As the shop is concerned, the stove goes on early in the morning and reloaded as needed 4 hours before quitting time. At quitting time, there are just a few coals left in there and everything is closed before leaving the shop. I am contemplating to get an outdoor boiler that serve both the house and the shop; just need 8 G's. A guard dog in that spend the nights at the shop might be your best security system at night; camera is a good choice for days.
Hope that helps.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Bert, I put a security and fire alarm system in my shop. It has a built in cell phone that automatically dials the police and/or fire department if it detects a fire or intrusion. The alarm people also interact with the system. It's the same type of system that I have in my home. It's a reasonable monthly fee and also got me a better rate on my insurance policy.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Charles, which brand , which company?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

I used to do this for a living. here are a couple of pointers:

1. I would recommend to stay away from "wireless" systems. go for a wired sensors system - less maintenance, less chances of failures (low batteries, physical stability/reliability).

2. large (nationwide) monitoring services change an arm and a leg and provide very little to no service when it comes time to repair/maintain your system (sometimes they will overcharge you for additional 'repairs') - try to find a local monitoring service in your home town. chances are you'll get better rates and service- shop around. nobody here could give you this answer.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Sharon, I like the idea of wireless at least between my house and shop as I would not have to pull wires.
I am thinking about doing this myslef


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## C_PLUS_Woodworker (Jun 10, 2010)

Bert

I have a couple of people in my extended family that do this type of work for a living.

There are so many rip-off systems/people in this alarm industry….it is sometimes difficult to tell what is good/effective and what is not.

But, these guys are legit.

I have written up this topic a couple of times previously for people wanting systems, so I am just going to copy/paste some of what I have written in the past. Hence the length of this comment.

Hopefully it will be helpful to some.

And, not everyone will agree with what I have included.
---------------------------------------
I talk with these guys a lot about this stuff every time we are gathered…...........couple times a year.

My areas of interest are:

*Safety for my wife*...........when she is home…....intruder-related….24/7

*Trespassers on our property*........around the house itself and the out-side grounds…..shed and storage buildings, etc.

This is a real serious issue for me. You have been to our home. We are the most remote house in our town….the "first" home out-side trespassers could get into from three directions. This situation is aggravated by easy access on good county roads above and around our property…although they are at a distance. It is hard to believe, but a lot of criminal and drug activity occurs on these remote, rarely traveled but easy-access country roads to nowhere.

There have been several incidents on these roads in just the years we have lived here and I have no reason to believe they will decline in frequency. 2 incidents involved police chases up these roads, where the "bad guys" bailed from their cars and ran to evade the cops. Most chases were UP into the hills, but twice they were chased down towards our property. As a note, also twice, the cops could not find the "bad guys" and came to our home alerting us as to what was going on and to take precautions.

*Fire.* With our log home, we went just the opposite of most owners. We did not install a wood burning stove or fireplace…....our fireplace is gas on fake logs. We have experienced chimney fires, and were also concerned about leaving the home with last night's embers still hot. We do have a wood burning stove in storage, and built the house with features that allow for us to easily bring it in and use it safely, should anything drastic happen to our supply of natural gas during cold months.

I am rambling…......so to the point:

These expert relatives constantly maintain that even the most effective security and alarm systems are regularly…....and sometimes constantly ….rendered ineffective because of the owner's own lack of diligence. Leaving a window open at any time renders the most common type of security system useless. There are ways around this, but they are expensive.

Fire and carbon monoxide alarms are just that…....alarms. They do a good job of alerting people so they can get to safety, but do nothing for fire-suppression. Water or chemical-based in-house fire suppression systems are prohibitively expensive.

Exterior video camera systems…..........quality or cheap systems…....only record what happened…......they do not prevent. My guys always use as examples of this…....the guys that wear a hoodie and keep their heads down during 7-11 robberies. Makes identifying suspects very difficult….........plus, some criminals just do not care if they are on video !!

Cameras on home entrances that show who is at the door are considered very good features, but only if LIVE monitors are easily viewable THROUGHOUT the house. If you have to run into the kitchen to see who is at the front door, that get's old in a hurry and it looses its effectiveness.

Live video of the outside premises are effective at promoting safety…..........IF you are at home….......and IF their motion detectors also set off beepers or alarms within the home …...so that the outside premises can be viewed safely from inside and appropriate actions taken.

Motion detectors within the home are highly recommended….............with the caveat being that they are kept turned on. These can be a hassle if there is regular movement within the house during the night. So, often, people just quit bothering to turn the motion detectors on…........to avoid waking everyone else in the house when one goes to the bathroom. These are HIGHLY recommended for singles or couples that can live with the occasional alarm and (as I was pleased to learn) good motion detectors can be set to NOT monitor small traffic areas used frequently….....like the small distance between a bed and the bathroom.

To sum this up…....what my folks recommend to their customers who want good systems…..... that are as user-proof as possible…..... is a system that:

Has exterior motion detector video that emits a noticeable, but not terribly disturbing sound (to neighbors or occupants) if motion is detected outside. The thinking here is that a trespasser is alerted to the fact that they are now detected and are both on video and "visible" to the occupants of the home who are being simultaneously alerted to their presence. My guys really like this system. It is usually never deactivated by the owner becasue of inconvenience, it lets trespassers know they are being both detected and videoed, and are very effective deterrents to forced entry 24/7. Occupied and non-occupied homes can be protected 24/7 with quality timing features.

Interior high-quality motion detectors (with settings that allow for NO detection in small, often-used portions of the home) are also highly recommended as being effective deterrents, particularly when the detectors are (skillfully) strategically placed throughout the home….... and that "go off" immediately when monitoring doors and windows. These are considered much more effective than the alarms that are physically attached to doors or windows….......as said earlier….......those are routinely deactivated by homeowners because of the many problems (inconvenience) inherent within them (open windows, etc).

Quality Fire-CO detectors do double duty….. They alarm the occupants of a fire….....and they are hard-wired but also cellular to a good piece of phone equipment that calls the local police/fire/911. These really good phone systems have a recorded message that gives the home address and any other quick messages the owner wants the operator to hear. They also keep repeating the information being sent out…........ over and over…...... to ensure the receiver can obtain all the info available in the message.

Their message…....actually, their mantra….....is: Keeping the home-owner SAFE. Safe from fire, Safe from intruders, and Safe from weaknesses in both the system(s) and Safe from operator error-neglect. They believe strongly that deterrents to intruders include (absolute must-haves) several "circles" or "perimeters" of protection. A "Circle" around the house on the exterior, a "Circle" around the occupants from intruders that do get inside and a quality 911 notification system.

So, they believe a quality system includes exterior motion-activated video (with alarms), interior motion detection (with alarms), and 911 call capability.

But, they consider ease of use by the home-owner to be the absolute #1 feature in all their systems. If the home-owner finds the system too difficult or inconvenient to keep the system(s) activated, then they are of no use at all.

The also say…......."save your money from not having monthly fees and spend the money you save on a quality, complete, independent system."...............but that is their business…......so there is undoubtedly some bias there.

Fire suppression systems are prohibitively expensive. Have a few good LARGE fire extinguishers located in the house and around the property, and sign up for the un-frequent but critical scheduled inspections or refills or replacements of your extinguishers. Any good extinguisher company offers this service.

I almost forgot…........they also recommend multiple in-wall Panic Buttons placed in every room and hallway….......that can be "punched" when there is a serious problem….........and that notifies 911 that something is amiss in that residence.

And then they always say…........"Nothing beats a Rottweiler". They say that jokingly, but they consider a dog of any size that will raise hell when something is in the house that should not be there….........invaluable. Maybe the best deterrent of all.

They are now also big fans of systems that can be remotely monitored or modified or turned off or whatever….........through the use of smartphones.

I know that was a long epistle, but it just took me a few minutes to copy into this comment the info I have gathered for years.

So sorry for Monte and the others that have had their shops destroyed lately.

But, as my relatives also say…........that is what good insurance is for. "Things" can be replaced. People…..not so easily.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you Bruce.
You know my Rottweiler, she is not very impressive but she is loud enough.
Thank you again.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Another fire only option that would work whether you're there or not is a halon system made for a boat, if the temperature gets over 165 degrees, the system is activated. The good: They're designed to extinguish a gasoline fueled fire & they can be had fairly inexpensive as pre-owned units. The bad: Your shop is quite a bit larger than the engine compartment of even a larger boat so you'd need more than one, they're expensive new & if you happen to be in the shop when one went off, the lack of oxygen could kill you.


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## lepelerin (Jan 13, 2012)

I would not go wireless for a security system (unless it's a enterprise class system, which is not the case for the amazon you mentioned). Wireless signal can be tempered and easy to hack. You won't know it before it's too late. I used to do ethical hacking for a living at my former job and consumer wireless was so easy to hack that it was even not funny to do. For a security system I would definitively go wired, more robust, more secure. It's security you were talking about, so wireless would introduce a very weak point in your system. How reliable are those wireless boxes? Amazon system might be attractive for the price but in case in a serious emergency do you want to rely on a system that is not reliable. Ask yourself this question. Just my 2 cents.
I use zoneminder for security and everything is hard wired. I never had any issue with it. It even recognizes the cat's neighbor


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

My #1 concern is to know if I have a fire starting in my shop.
Security is a lesser concern.
It would be nice to have both but right now the danger of fire is #1


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## geraldvg (Jul 5, 2013)

Have you considered a web based system with web cam(s) and smoke/heat sensors that would call your cell phone? The same thing would work for your house and with a little work both could be run through the same computer. My guess is a power outage alert could be incorporated if you put a UPS on the computer.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Gerald,no.
More details would be welcome


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## funchuck (Jan 11, 2010)

I use simplisafe. I used ADT for about 8 years, but when I moved, they informed me that I was on an auto renewing yearly contract (even though I pay monthly). I had to cough up the money to finish off the rest of the year. In addition, I could not cancel over the phone or internet and after about 2 hours on the phone, I finally found out that the only way to cancel is by writing them a mail sent by certified mail.

Because of all that trouble, I switched to Simplisafe. I have been very happy with them. Much cheaper (both starting equipment and monthly fees). They offer security, fire, carbon monoxide, and water alarms (and maybe others).

However, all their sensors are wireless. It makes it very easy to install, but I did not know until this thread that they are less reliable. I'm not concerned about hacking though. I really doubt someone will go through the trouble of trying to hack my security system. Personally, I think the alarm will cause a potential burgler to go elsewhere, to an easier target.


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## geraldvg (Jul 5, 2013)

Can't give you any specific details, Bert. I spend a lot of time and effort, however, researching the internet and personal computers and what you can do with them have been a major factor for me since their beginning. On a number of occasions, I have come across articles about web based home security systems. That includes looking into helping my 90+ year old mother live independently in her own home. There are any number of computer applications, some of them freeware, that will interface sensors to personal computers which can be set up to auto send email. About all it would take, if you don't want to go the commercial route, is an enthusiastic high school computer geek, a small budget and a little imagination. I live way out in the boonies, my shop is 400+ feet from my house and, except for the shower, always have my cell phone with me. I've been thinking about doing something like that myself. Just can't see how it would do any good to be able to watch my house/shop burn on the internet - by the time our VFD could there I'd have been better off (less mess to clean up) if it all just burned to the ground. There would, I suppose, be some value to having a recording of a break-in.

If the possibility interests you, I'm sure there must be some home security forums where some real information would be easy to come by.

Wish I could have been more help than to just raise the idea and point you in a direction to investigate.


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Bert you could ask your fire department.


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## gtbuzz (Sep 19, 2011)

Bert

I've got a system from SafeMart. It's a fully monitored system that provides security as well as fire. It's a completely wireless system (all sensors as well as the connection to the monitoring center) and it's a DIY install. Very easy to do, especially for someone that would be browsing this forum. No having to pay some guy to do what you could easily do yourself.

Regarding how I use it to protect my shop, my shop is my garage. Each garage door is wired to a tilt sensor that lets me know when the door is opened closed. In addition, there's also a wireless smoke detector in the garage as well. I like having it in case I do something stupid like toss some wadded up oily rags into the trash rather than letting them air out.

The response time has been quite good too. I've had 2 false alarms (all my fault) and they've responded inside of 1 minute. The base station has an option for 2 way voice (about a $30 add on module, no additional cost) and it works pretty well. As far as cost goes, I pay about $25/mo, but that's because I prepaid a year and they throw in 3 months free. Otherwise it's $29/mo. They have a higher tier that adds the ability to control lights, door locks, thermostats, etc over the Z-Wave protocol, and motion sensors that can take pictures ($39). There's also a $49 tier that adds live video. Honestly, I didn't see that one as being worth it because there are DIY solutions that are free and I don't see monitoring as being an essential part of that.

SafeMart is actually a reseller for Alarm.com, so you may want to check out the Alarm.com website to see if there is a local reseller in your market. I have some in my area, however they were all more expensive than SimpliSafe and as I've said before, the monitoring for me has been top notch so far. Additionally, if I were to move, it's easier to move the SafeMart system for me because I am not under any contract with a local company.

There's other options out there too. SimpliSafe gets a lot of good reviews and is a little cheaper ($25/mo with no prepay), but I had a bad experience with their monitoring when I tried them. To give them credit, they refunded my money when I explained why I was upset. In addition, I really like the SafeMart equipment a lot more. It's all GE stuff, whereas the SafeMart stuff is done in-house and kind of clunky looking. The main panel is a color touch screen vs a keypad with an matrix display. The door sensors were giant and kind of an eyesore, whereas mine are the mechanical plunger type I was able to install in the door frame (magnetic kinds are available too). It wouldn't hurt to check them out to see if they might work for you, but having experienced both, I wouldn't personally recommend SimpliSafe over SafeMart.

There are other DIY online resellers as well, but SimpliSafe and SafeMart were the lowest cost of all the ones available. Others such as Vivint were about $20/mo more - not worth it for basically the same thing.

Like I said, having the system monitored was a very important point for me. If you don't need that, there's other options as well, such as the Iris system from Lowe's. I've found that the up-front cost for these wasn't significantly less, but you don't have to pay monthly fees.

Regarding some of the concerns that people have brought up regarding wireless

I actually think the cellular connection is safer than a landline connection. The cell networks are very reliable now and you can't simply cut the cord at the NID like with a landline. Sure someone could buy some cell signal jamming equipment, but generally someone that's gonna do that is targeting specifically your house and not your random criminal. Chances are there's nothing you can do about that person anyway
I've had zero communications problems with any of my sensors. House is about 2500 sqft. Honestly, I'm not sure what the range on it is though. It might be a concern if your shop is detached and located a couple hundred feet from the base station. I think there are options for additional keypads that can operate as repeaters
I've recently read that there may be a security flaw in the protocol used for communication of the sensors. Obviously there's really no way to say something is hack proof, but your petty criminal isn't going to be involved in this kind of stuff. There's also plenty of ways to trick the completely wired system too, so don't let that fool you into a false sense of security. Also, since my main concern is fire monitoring, it's not as big an issue IMO.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have questions.


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## Picken5 (Jan 12, 2011)

Bert,

There's a bunch of good info offered here-and a bunch I disagree with. I've been in the security industry most of my professional life, and while I'm reluctant to say "I've seen it all" I can say "I've seen a bunch of it."

I agree with most everything offered by C-PLUS-Woodworker said. Good stuff.

Gerald's suggestion of web-based system that'll call your cell phone-not so much. Ask yourself: "If I'm away from home and I get a signal that someone's broken into my home, what am I going to do?" Keep in mind that the industry average for false alarms are pretty close to 98%. Hence, calling the police may not get you much action since many police departments don't take alarm reports seriously unless they're verified. Oh, they'll show up-but you may not be first on their priority list. So, video reported to your phone along with an alarm may work better. If you can say you saw someone breaking in, i.e. you can verify it, they'll usually respond much faster. And consider that video takes up a huge amount of bandwidth compared to what you normally get on your phone. So, it may take while before you can even look at your video.

Also find out what happens when false alarms are reported. Most ciities, counties, etc are now requiring that you get your alarm registered (and pay a fee for that) otherwise you're operating it illegally. Some require it get professionally installed before you can get it registered. And most of them will fine you for false alarms. (I had a retail customer a few years who's false burglar alarm fines one year amounted to more that $2,000.) False alarms are caused by any number of things, but user goofs ("I forgot it was on!") account for a huge percentage of them. And many jurisdictions will stop responding entirely if you've had more false alarms than they consider reasonable.

Another thing, fines for false fire alarms are almost always higher.

Usually, you can't connect your alarm directly to the police or the fire department. Most police & fire departments simply won't allow it. Remember that 98% of alarms are false - they don't want to deal with them. So you may have to hire an alarm monitoring service. The good ones usually won't monitor an alarm system you purchase from Amazon or other retailer. Ask before you buy.

Good luck with your quest.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

I like the NEST. It is a great FIRE alarm and it send a message to your Smart phone in case of fire through your Wireless internet.. They sell thermostats too. They are a bit spendy but it will call your phone in case of fire.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you all for your answers and your help.


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## C_PLUS_Woodworker (Jun 10, 2010)

*Picken5*

Well, gee, I am surprised. Someone actually agrees with something I said. That happens so rarely in my life as to make this a remarkable event. Going to celebrate at McDonald's…......and everyone can get anything they want off the Dollar Menu. Going to splurge….........BIG TIME.

Security really is on a job by job basis, isn't it. Every location has its own different requirements.

And family budgets have to carry weight.

One size fits all big box store systems just do not accomplish "fully" what the owner really needs. And, many times when the real experts spell out what is needed and quote a system to an owner, they get full-on sticker shock.

I know that something is better than nothing…...........and according to my folks…......

That "something" is a dog that barks at anything….......along with outdoor lighting and indoor motion detection.

And obviously fire and CO alarms.

I use fake "Watch Your Ass" security system signs in my yard. Who knows? Maybe it is just to let me find it humorous.

Best to ya.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

No expert here Bert, but my limited research in the past led me to conclude that a hard wired main panel with battery back up (kind of like a UPS, but with lower power draws and longer life) is the way to go. You can then use a mix of wired and wireless sensors. I personally would want it to have the cellular alert option, so a cut phone line wouldn't disable the remote alarm.

These panels don't work with normal Home Depot type smoke detectors though.

PS… I dial 1911 before I dial 911 :^)


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Bert, it's just a local security company. There are several companies here and they all do pretty much the same thing. Nearly every decent size town would probably have several. It's a pretty competitive business so if you shop around you should find reasonable prices. The name of the company that I use is called Ace Security and Protection Co. It's just a local company but they give me very good service and I also trust them. They can also add 24 hour video security service if you like.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I have decided that along with my security system that I am not going to post pictures of what tools that I have or the type of security system that I have or post the location of my shop.

I have concerns about forums where I would discuss the shop and tools and give someone a location to come look for them. Maybe, I am too cautious but if I were looking to steal tools I would troll the forums like this looking for something that would be worthwhile. Am I paranoid? Perhaps…

Enough to say that I have a very good system for security and fire alarms and in addition venomous snakes that are trained to bite anyone who should not be in my house or shop.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Great topic, some good info. Sorry, I have not real experience or answers to offer. I am like everyone else looking at what we can do for future prevention. A fire would put a hurting on us like none other. I know a good insurance policy is likely the best solution. Good inventory is another. We are currently building a new shop, it is out of metal structure and concrete foundation so I would assume it would be less susceptible to a fire then a wood structure would be. And we are putting a sprinkler system in above where we will be storing materials.

As for a security system, we do have a large all black GSD that has some basic home guard instincts, though is a very loving family dog he does appear a bit intimidating. And since we live right next to our shop we have an accurate rifle I hope should deter any intruders. But seriously, being out in the country I don't suspect we will get any intruders.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

That's a all lot of answers.
Thank you all but I am still not sure what I am going to do


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## MAKZ06 (Jun 17, 2013)

Another suggestion for SimpliSafe as mentioned above. If your shop is close enough to your house then you can kill, two birds with one stone. My other system had gotten so old it was no longer supportable so I switched from that system with Ackerman monitoring a couple months ago to SimpliSafe. $14.95 a month for cellular monitoring. No bells and whistles but it does what I was looking for so it was the best value for my situation both for our house and cabin. Various components and sensors are very reasonably priced compared to other systems. You are locked in to using that company though for monitoring. You can't have anyone monitor like you can with many systems. No contract though which is nice too. The Ackerman bastards dinged me with their "zombie" contract when I wanted to cancel. Even though I had completed my two year contract, they charged me for nearly another year because I didn't give them 6 months notice of my intent to cancel prior to when the contract cake up for its "annual automatic renewal"....


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## Picken5 (Jan 12, 2011)

*C-Plus* - Aw shucks. I'd take you up on that McDonalds meal, if I was in your neck of the woods. You also made another good point - i.e. that "security really is on a job by job basis." And not only does each location have different requirements, each situation has different requirements. Most of my clients are security or loss prevention professionals, but I do sometimes come across a client who simply doesn't know what do to. I usually start with a threat assessment-i.e. try to figure out what the threats are and how serious each one is. Once we know that, the general system design get easier and generally has a better chance of success.


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