# Just bought a bunch of Red Oak



## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Well, I saw on craigslist where someone was selling "black walnut" so I drove 30 minutes to the sellers house. She had three stacks of lumber piled up. From left to right is Cedar, Red Oak and Walnut. However, I got confused, because when I looked at the walnut it was all a cream color. There wasn't any "black" in the walnut at all. I guess it was kind of foolish of me to expect any walnut to be black walnut, but I know better now  I understand that black walnut is the prized walnut that everyone raves about, but is there still a value to this "regular" walnut here?










Anyways, the seller was just trying to get rid of it all and was selling everything for $1.50 per board foot so I was bound on buying something. So I ended up getting around 90 BF of Red Oak. The seller said that she had cut down the trees and milled them up about 3 weeks ago so it still has a lot of drying to do. I am going to my shop after work today and stacking them with spacers and painting the ends with latex paint but is there anything else that ya'll would recommend doing? This is my first time drying wood under my own watch.

*EDIT and forgive me for not getting any close up pictures! I didn't think about it until it was too late and I was driving home :-/


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

You need to maintain reasonable air flow. Best to stack outside, protect the wood from direct sunlight, don't stack close to wall or fence which will block the airflow. Use stickers (spacer sticks, typically 3/4" thick), spaced every 16 - 24" apart horizontally. Align stickers vertically to provide support throughout stack. Cover top of stack with old metal roofing or plywood, something to keep the top of stack from getting wet from rain.

Air-dry for six to twelve months, then move into shop, allow to acclimitize.

Good Luck!

Be Careful!

Herb


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## Nomad62 (Apr 20, 2010)

The English walnut I've seen was still a nut brown, not creamy at all; I'd tend to think it may have been something else, sometimes trees are difficult to tell their type. It tends to be brittle and more difficult to dry without damage, but what remains is nice, nice wood. Buck and a half a foot, not bad at all really. Nice score


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## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

Sounds as though if it was from a nut tree on her property it is either Hickory or Pecan (a Hickory kin) both are poplar in Texas. Super hard when dried. Had she milled then 4/4 5/4 or 8/4? If you got room at your place it'd be worth a trip back with a trailer and make her an offer to get some more. IMHO.


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## bold1 (May 5, 2013)

Not familiar with all your trees down there but do you have Butternut? It looks the same as Black Walnut except for the color. An old trick lumbermen use is to stack green B. Walnut and Butternut every other layer till the Walnut color bleeds thru the Butternut(when you cut a sample it's all the way thru). This lets them sell Butternut as high price B. Walnut.


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## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

bold1, Thanks for that tip. Grreat knowledge. Any other trees provide similar stacking, coloring tricks?


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## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks for the info guys! If I had any more cash for wood I would certainly head back there. Maybe she will have some more in a couple of weeks when payday arrives  got it all stacked this weekend and painted the ends with latex paint.










I hope the pic turns out fine. Just uploaded it from my phone


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## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Oops turned out sideways. Try not to break your neck looking at it! Sorry guys


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Don't confuse poplar with popular.
Wod is wood, and if you can use it, go forth my man.
Bill


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

just my point of view, I place the stickers every 24". I just figure it can't hurt.


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## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

I placed them around 24" apart. At least close to that considering the boards were a tad longer than 8'. Have you guys used adjustable straps or just weigh it down with cinder blocks to try to prevent warping? Or is that even necessary?


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

I use 5 stickers for 8' lumber. One at 0, 2, 4, 6, and 8 feet. You want stickers close to the ends of the boards. Stack the best boards on the bottom. You could add a layer of stickers on top of the last layer and add any other dry lumber dead-stacked on top to serve as weight. There is already some cupping, but you cannot do a whole lot about that. Looks like nice lumber.


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## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

This is the amateur woodworker in me so forgive me if this question has an obvious answer, but if some ends have already begin to cup, then will this eventually start cupping throughout the entire board or will it be limited to the ends if proper actions are taken? (painting the ends, weighing it down, etc.)

I know that cracks will spread throughout the entire board so thats why I ask. I wouldn't mind losing a little bit off of the ends but I would hate for all of my wood to be cupped and unusable :-/


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Cupping has more to do with how fast the tree grew and the way it was cut than anything else. 
Quarter or riff sawn will cup less than flat sawn, but as the moisture leaves, the growth rings shrink and cause the cupping.
Not much you can do that I know of except sticker, stack, weigh and/or clamp or band and then just let it do its thing.
All wood is usable, even if severely cupped or twisted. You just have to be selective where you use it and deal with extra steps to get to flat stock. Usually means extra cutting, planing, jointing and culling.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

It's unusual to have a crack spread throughout the entire board. Like Michael mentioned, I typically cut a cupped board in half before planing, then it takes less to get it flat.


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## bannerpond1 (Mar 15, 2013)

crank49, your idea of why boards cup is certainly unique and it's a view not held by me. I quarter saw all the logs off my property and that of neighbors. I not only get better looking wood in general, but I get more stability. Boards will cup opposite to the growth rings of plain sawn boards. That's a fact. They may even cup when they're stickered to dry, the pressure being greater than the weight holding down the boards.

Cutting can induce bowed or twisted wood if the wood was in tension when it was growing. That's why most folks don't want to use a limb for woodworking, not matter how thick it was. The tension in the limb which holds it up against gravity can cause a lot of movement in a board when it dries, or even when it's sawn. That's why it's a no-brainer to use a splitter on your table saw.

Want less cupping? QS your wood. The increased waste is worth the increased value and workability.


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## TomB19 (Jan 4, 2013)

Sometimes it seems like I'm the only person on the planet who still enjoys red oak. It seems like everyone is sick of it, except me. I love it. You made a great score there.

A couple of guys I know are staining it brown. I don't know how they get the red out of it but it looks like brown stained white oak. I like the effect but I still think I prefer leaving the wood natural and just using a clear barrier finish. It is what it is.

I don't make furniture for other people so I can be as barbaric as I like. lol! 

When I read posts on finishing, it really drives home how unsophisticated I am and how awesome the average LumberJock is. I'm not in your league but I'm having a great time building stuff. Anyway, kudos to you.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Dale, I don't see where we are in disagreement. I said quarter sawn or riff sawn will cup less than flat sawn. Then you said you quarter saw for better results.?? Is this not two ways of saying the same thing?

Maybe my use of the term flat sawn where you say plain sawn is different. I have heard both terms used to refer to the same thing. And I agree this is the worst cut method for cupping, especially when near the pith.

Again, I refer to the speed a tree grew and the way it is cut as the cause of cupping. You say it cups opposite the growth rings. The speed the tree grows affects the thickness of the growth rings. Wide rings indicate fast growth and are more prone to cup.

Likewise I said the way it is cut will affect cupping. What is unique about that. If you flat/plain saw it you will have more cupping. that's a fact.


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## bold1 (May 5, 2013)

What you are saying is true, somewhat. When wood dries the water in the cells will not cross the rays (not the growth rings) in the wood. The longer the rays the longer it takes for the water to work out to the surface. As the cells shrink the outer cells, along the rays, shrink faster then the inner cells setting up stress within the fibers. Crotch, knots, and burl will cause larger amounts of stress then straight rays. If lumber is cupping or warping or splitting as it dries, it is drying too fast, no matter how it is sawn. Quarter sawn has shorter rays and does dry more evenly then flat sawn. But dried properly flat sawn should have no more cup or stress the quarter sawn. Quarter sawn because of the short rays is much easier to air dry and tends to expand and contract more evenly when in an assembled piece. Before dry kilns quarter sawn was the Fastest way to get good furniture grade lumber to the market.


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## eao2012 (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks TomB19, I have never used Red Oak before but for 1.50 a bf I just couldn't pass it up! I'm really looking forward to working with it once it has dried. These boards to have some beautiful grain that would look great on a top on an end table I want to make out of it. I love the beauty of wood so I would prefer to keep it natural, unless my fiance wants her end table darker then I may have no choice but to use a dark stain


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

I love red oak. BTW, wood cups toward the bark, maybe that is what bannerpond means by cupping "opposite to the growth rings". This seems counter-intuitive, but it is true.

I believe that the cause of cupping can be complex. Surely tension has an effect. Also, differential drying more on one side than the other. Drying too fast sets up large moisture gradients that cause stress in the board that can also lead to cup.

Maroon, the cupping in your boards is not too bad, and will probably not get any worse. Much of it will plane out or you can rip the wider boards into two pieces for planing and re-glue them back together.


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## bannerpond1 (Mar 15, 2013)

crank, you convinced me that we aren't that far apart, just saying it in a different way. WDHLT15's description seems better than mine. "Cupping toward the bark" is more descriptive than "opposite the growth rings." I see what you mean now about "how it was cut" affecting the tendency to cup, meaning whether it is QS or flat sawn. I didn't mean to come off like some tree professional.


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