# The Secret on What to Build



## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Every woodworker that wants to make a living (or at least, some nice side income) at woodworking wants one question answered: What should I build that will sell?!

In my latest ShopNotes Blog post, I answer that.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I don't know. You make some good points, but I still think you better build something that the consumer is passionate about.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

If you build what is your passion and no one buys it does that not relegate your activities to be a hobby?

I totally agree with passion bringing out the best in you, but the market will tell you what they want to buy.

I don't do woodworking for a living but if I did I would look at what I am good at, what people want to buy and what can I make a profit on would determine what it is I would build.

BTW Pashley, I love your mission desk…a very nice piece.


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## NorthSummitWW (Feb 22, 2012)

Good post, I agree i think woodworking is something you have to put your heart in to, if your making something you're not passionate about it just becomes like any "whatever pays the bills" job. I'm by no means a professional but I would like to make that transition someday and if I can't do it by selling things I enjoy building then I'll keep it as a hobby. Just my two cents.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Chances are, if you are passionate about it, and if the product line is not too unique - like wood gear shift knobs - then others out there are too, and will buy it.

How about salt and pepper mills? Blah? Not for my friend Brad, who does well selling them, and any wonder why?


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

When I first started doing wood working back about 1983 I was making decorative and functioning fireplace bellows. After many attempts I finally could produce them in a reasonable length of time, and offer them for sale at a reasonable price, but sold few. I liked working with wood so I tried other items to make for fun and for sale. I now make cedar boxes with maple images or lettering inlaid into the hinged lids. These boxes sell well. I also make a few toys and they also sell well. I still make bellows and do intarsia and lettering on signs but sell few of those. I have also made large vases and even small wooden flowers but find that there is not much of a market for them. The box sales fund my hobby 100% but I still try new ideas from time to time, and see if they sell. So my answer to the question "What sells?" is: In my case, Boxes and toys priced under $25.


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## lunn (Jan 30, 2012)

I have a wood shop !! Plain and simple. I'm not in busniess nor do i want to be. If it's wood i'll repair it. bring some sorta plans i'll build it. In my spare time i build whatever i want to sell. If i build more than 2 of a item then it's a job and i darn sure don't want that!!! People stop and ask whattcha making I just reply about 50 cents an hour. Example a lady stoped by and asked if i could fix a chair with a broken leg sure! I ended up fixing 10 for her. It adds up. I'd hate to try making a living at it! But i stay busy and make a buck !


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

How does your friend Brad market his product? What are his distribution channels?


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

I agree with the article.. %90. For me if you want to make money, specifically a living from woodworking, passion for the craft is a bonus, and even helpful, but I would argue that what you really need to have a passion for is business!! If you don't find passion for that craft, the woodcraft will likely not pay, but will certainly be rewarding.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

I agree with Joeyinsouthaustin. I enjoy working with wood and consider if lots of fun. I also enjoy business and will talk to every business person I meet trying to pick their brain. I also do the same with marketing people.

I have learned that I have to treat my woodworking as a business, run it as a business and not as a hobby. My goal is to make money through wood working. For every one that says they don't want to make money off their skills is not someone who is trying to make money from woodworking. I can sit on my couch watching the television and not make money. When I am working, I am making a living.

As far as finding something you are passionate about and then making it. You also need to find the market that you can sell this product at. I enjoy making puzzles. Wound up making personalized puzzles. Now I make a living making personalized puzzles. Found the market by doing craft and art shows. Then found the wholesale accounts by doing trade shows. Has it been easy? NO. I have worked more hours than I have ever done before for less pay per hour but I love the wood and the business. Would never trade it.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*RockyTopScott:* I know Brad does a lot of shows, and I think he does quite a bit through his website. His Facebook page is here, and his website here. He sells on Etsy too. I'm sure he can help you….

*joeyinsouthaustin:* Yes, there is no doubt that you have to know how to market; what good is it if you make something for people to buy, and they can't find you? But if they can find you, and you obviously don't have a passion for your work, would good is that as well? I would say marketing is really not all that hard, but developing a passion, and being really good, is.

*Puzzleman:* No, it wasn't easy - if it was, everyone would be doing it. But, you persevered, another trait of a successful person, good for you.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

*pashley* "but I can tell you that a passion for whatever you do will take you to the top" This specific statement is not a realistic conclusion to your lead statement, " I'm speaking about guys that want to make a living at it, not hobby types, not even craft show guys." Because of this qualifier, " you need to build what you are passionate about." The body then speaks of several different types of wood projects, improving those projects, or dedication to a craft or idea, but it does not mention that you have to actually sell these products. Except here, "Have you found that item line that works for you? You'd like me to tell you what to make, what will sell well, wouldn't you? It's what everyone wants to know that sells something - whether it be the "it" toy of the Christmas season, or a livelihood, people want to sell what people want to buy. " People buying really don't give a crap about your passion. They want the object to be good, well crafted, of a value to them, and something they like or need. I totally agree about your premise that you need to have passion behind what you do, but in the very specific context you provided, "how to make a living at woodworking" your passion needs to include a respect for the market place. "people want to sell what people want to buy." Think of it this way. Gordon Ramsay has pointed this out to many chefs in his program Kitchen Nightmares. "I can see that you are passionate about grandmas old Italian recipe's, but there are 30 Italian restaurants in the block, you are not that talented of a chef, and people want more modern versions of the recipe. If you don't change the restaurant will close." It doesn't matter if this chef is more passionate than anyone, his passion is misdirected. He needs to be passionate about owning a restaurant. Not being the chef, not grandma's recipes, but making a living from a restaurant. A carpenter who wants to make a living at woodworking can't just "build what your are passionate about" passion is involved, it is needed, but without respect for the desires of the marketplace, you will not make a living at it. That was what I was trying to point out that I felt was missing from your article. Now success is defined many different ways.. So I would call this statement true to your article, "If you build what you are passionate about, you will be successful" But possibly hungry!! And to be true and honest, I was not able to make a living with the things I am most passionate about, because they are simply not that marketable, but they make a great hobby. I want to point out that I offer this as creative criticism. I like the ideas and the blog, they always make me think, and I like that you are open to discussion, and IMHO good at it. Thanks again.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

23? years later building custom stairs and railing….I can't even fathom not looking forward to going to work every day at 5 in the morning.

There's a large quote on the wall in the shop…

"A true craftsman's best tool is…passion."


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*joeyinsouthaustin:* You are just basically reiterating the "build what the market wants" theme. If it so happens that what they want is a passion of yours, great; if not, tough luck. Citing the restaurant example doesn't really hold up, I don't think. We are not dealing in recipes. I'm guessing some 100 million plus people cook from recipes in the U.S., but how many people make awesome furniture?

But, you will say that you can't be passionate about buggy whips in the age of cars, and you'd be right. But we are not talking about a huge change in technology, only genre - from one to another, i.e., Arts and Crafts to Modern, or a further advancement of a genre - a "New Mission" style….hmmmm, that has a nice ring to it….


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Lots of dudes are passionate about building guitars but it's
a problematic and competitive marketing environment. Furthermore,
being able to make guitars, even very good ones, does little
to equip a craftsman to do casework or even joinery
so some easy woodworking money may be passed-up
because the skilled craftsman is not versatile enough to
do the side jobs.

This is partly why I advocate that for people who want to
start a one-person shop to make furniture, they will
do well to be set up for casework as well…. and not
just in the "have tablesaw" way but also in the hole
drilling and edgebanding way.

I do think it is worthwhile to pursue a specialty far enough
down the road of how to do it technically that for others
to compete at your level becomes a serious problem for
them. Marquetry skills come to mind as the most 
pointed way to separate yourself so completely from
the competition that it becomes literally unfeasible for
customers to shop around to beat your price. Then
you've got something the customer wants (object of desire)
and are also the only way for them to get it.

The passion for the specialty can eventually lead to
developing this level of technical skill where the competitive 
factors are effectively nullified in that your customers
have no option but to buy it from you or not own
the desired object at all, at least to the extent that
you can earn about what a plumber gets and maybe
more. The guy that developed that insane round
expanding yacht table is a good example - the 
engineering commitment to develop the product 
was extraordinary and now he's getting paid for his
investment in the specialty.

Here it is:






"Grit" Laskin is a good guitar builder, but the reason he's
a major figure in the fine acoustic guitar universe is
his superior and inventive inlay skills. I'm sure he
sells an unadorned guitar here and there but it's
mostly about the inlay. Ervin Somogyi is a master of
chip-carved soundboards which nearly puts him,
like Laskin, in a class by himself. Players will debate
about who makes the best-sounding guitars, but
the market will not argue that the guitars from the
masters of decoration are unworthy of collector prices.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I have made several pieces that I thought were great, only to have them sit forever. I want to build nice pieces, but it iseessential that customers are interested in. It is only valuable if someone will buy it.


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## 111 (Sep 2, 2013)

1st, My passion is doing woodworking, I love to take flat stock and turn them into things.

*If I had to make things and try to sell them I don't think I would be happy. 
That's a whole different ball game.*

I have been fortunate to be able to make a living building custom built-ins, pcs of furniture here and there, and knocking out a kitchen every once in a while. It's always different even though it's basicly the same process.

For me commissions is the only way to go. 
You can charge more for a custom pc than you could ever sell the same pc to whoever would buy it.

(I think building "ART" pcs may be an exception to that.)

I don't think there is a secret on what to build. 
The secret is finding the niche, making and selling whatever it is that your passionate about making.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

*Pashley* You are correct. I am repeating that theme, because in the article you advocate that passion alone will overcome market forces, allowing you to make a living. (please take this as criticism of the article, not personal) Boos boards may have grown out of passion, but they also grew off of many things having nothing to do with a passion for cutting boards. They primary growth of the company was through the manufacture of stainless steel commercial kitchen stations, and military contracts for those products starting in WWII and continuing to this day. In fact that is still the largest earner for the business. They have always produced cutting boards, but the current boards they are known for is the product of a diversification strategy into the domestic market, starting in 1980, taking advantage of specific market trends. The use of stainless steel and combination materials in kitchens, the green movement, and table as a kitchen island. Although they started out in the 1800's making cutting boards, *they are actually very passionate about work tables*, and are only now known for cutting boards because there was a market there. I will argue they destroyed the passions of many smaller cutting board manufacturers, who didn't understand what was happening to their marketplace, and now no longer make a living. Their current largest competition is Ikea, whose passion is obviously cutting boards (read sarcasm) You also cite Picasso, who Ironically died poor. I will also argue that the restaurant example is spot on. " I'm guessing some 100 million plus people cook from recipes in the U.S., but how many people make awesome furniture?" Your article isn't discussing how to make awesome furniture. It is discussing what to build in order to make a living from woodworking. You say build what you are passionate about and you will succeed. Using your article as a guide, if someone is passionate enough about building "buggy whips" they will be able to make a living. You have conceded this is simply not true. You can make money, a hobby, but your article is quite specific to making a living. Passion is an ingredient. I stated originally that I agreed with %90 of the article. The truth is if you want to make a living you do need passion for your product, passion for the craft, but you must have respect for the market. I don't find this in the article, which as it is titled claims that it has advice on how to navigate the market. The "build what the market wants" isn't a theme, it is Economics, and it is a science, not a guess or luck.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*joeyinsouthaustin* Thank you for the exhaustive history of Boos.

I am willing to concede that a market - or potential market - must be there for you to be successful commercially. However, isn't it also true the most wildly successful people create markets for their products, in that because it is so different and so good? A good salesman creates a need for his product; if the product is extremely good and unique, and can create it's own demand - if the public is aware of it ( a nod to your marketing point).

The point of my article was not (and did not say) that passion alone will guarantee commercial success. However, I did write, "No, I can't tell you to make cutting boards, side boards, surf boards or head boards - you'll have to figure that out; but I can tell you that a passion for whatever you do will take you to the top…" -Leaving the discretion of what to make up to the maker. Yes, you have to make something the market is now interested in - maybe that is Mission style furniture, maybe it's cutting boards or leather products, but if people didn't take chances on new products - as in melding genres together for instance, as I did with my Modern Mission Desk, product design would never move forward, or if it did it would so incremental and boring. Steve Jobs had a passion for new and cool products - the iPhone, iPod, the Mac operating system (though he generously lifted ideas for that from Xerox), and they were widely embraced - but yes, he also had the means and know-how on how to market them.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I would suggest reading Dan Kennedy's excellent book
No B.S. Marketing to the Affluent


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

I do like that final statement, that you need to have a passion for whatever you do, in order to get to the top, and your welcome. The story of Boos is quite a fascinating one. I believe the secret of what to build in order to make a living at woodworking, is to build a good business around what you are passionate about, and I believe that ultimately you are saying that in the article, if not as directly as it takes for my brain to get it.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*Loren* That looks like a great book, thanks for the recommendations!


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## HowardInToronto (Sep 27, 2013)

Pashley and Joey in South Austin got reeeeeeal close to several key points.

Passion isn't everything. But it is a necessary ingredient.

Think of the last salesperson you dealt with who knew their stuff but didn't convey any verve or flair. Then think of the salesperson who was equally technically proficient and was excited to help you establish contexts you hadn't thought of before. They probably guided you to something that exceeded your original expectations.

THAT's passion. The second person invested in the brain power to continually learn and add to their knowledge. How to do things better. How to improve processes. How to create associations that hadn't existed before.

Everything discussed here is a question of degree. Joey - I disagree - clients DO respond to passion. How much they're willing to pay is another conversation.

And PAshley - can you make a living making buggy whips? Probably not. But you got real close in your comments and I'd like to offer my thoughts, if I may.

For everyone thinking what "products to make," STOP. You're looking through the narrow end of the funnel. Start thinking markets to serve.

So how do buggy whips relate? Find markets that use them. An example might be Civil War re-enactors. They go to huge lengths for historic accuracy of all kinds of all kinds of ancillary gear.

Do I mean buggy whips literally? Nope. I'm suggesting you find a new attitude, a mentality, a way of looking at things - of markets to serve.

So yes, PAshley, reproduction furniture, hip mid-century stuff, art deco, medeieval. Whatever you like, there's probably other people that like it too. But Loren offered very valuable insight in his observations about luthiers. Furniture's only one part of woodworking - there are lots of other disciplines you can be part of. Or dominate, if that's where your interests take you.

Do some basic research. Find markets that interest you. Watch what they're buying. Figure out how to get it to them. Make it a great experience from one end of the process to the other end of the process. Stay in touch with them. Sell them more stuff.

Then you can have as much or as little business as you'd like.

So study the fundamentals of running a woodworking business. Learn what's involved in generating a steady and repeatable income. Think cable bill, car payment or even mortgage payment. Every single month. Then you'll know enough to be able to scale up those new skills to whatever your correct level is.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Well said *HIT* I like the funnel. That is a nice way of putting it. As far as if clients respond to passion: I am going to have to back out of the statement I made a bit. In my experience, some do, some don't, some do because they are looking for it, some do and don't know why, and some could give a crap how the object came to be, so long as it serves their desires. Having it will never hurt, and most always it helps.


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