# sawdust chronicles challenge



## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*need a little advice*

Greetings all.

Well, the plans are coming along, but I've hit a bit of a roadblock. To make the Rubik's cube pedestal I will need six different colors, and they must be different enough to stand out against each other. This could be hard to do if I stick with natural wood, so I've been thinking of going with a single species with a light color such as white oak or maple, then dye it. I want the grain to be obvious, so something transparent is in order, plus, to keep with the "green" part of the build, I want to keep with as natural a material as possible,

Anyone got any suggestions as to wood species, dye material and technique? My experience in this area is just about non existent!

Suggestions for the three woods for the "Louis cube" pattern are also welcome.

I hope to have the SketchUp designs to a good enough state to post in the next day or two.


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## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *need a little advice*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Leather dye - the liquid - works pretty well, and it comes in colors!


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *need a little advice*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Just looking around the shop, the woods that come into view for colors are cherry, maple, walnut, zircote, oak,
juniper, ironwood, purple heart, english walnut, and my stand by beetle killed blue pine, all of these always come
in different shades and tones, that if we had enough money, would make any colored project very simple and
complex at the same time. A quick wipe with a damp cloth will give you an idea of what the finiished color of
the wood will be. I am lucky enough to have two good wood stores close to me, and they do not mind me 
coming to look as long as I do not drool on the wood (Superior Hardwoods & Millwork Inc and Buckeye Hardwood & Lumber Co). Aromatic Cedar looks and smells the same as Juniper. If you do not have a wood
store close to you, I know Woodcraft, one of the advertisers here has wood available, their closest store is in
Spokane -200 miles away, so I have not made it over there yet, but I have read good things about them on 
this site. Picking out wood for a project is always fun for me, until it bumps up against my budget and makes
me think I may just have to go back to work for money so I can afford more fun. Good luck and have fun.


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## bench_dogg (Oct 23, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *need a little advice*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Check out some dye-I have used both WD Lockwood and Trans-tint (bought at rockler), both are good. I have used both mixed with water, a little bit goes a long way, just mix it up and brush it on. If you decide to try this make sure you do some test boards I have found the color varies a bit depending on the top coat and you WILL need a top coat for it to look right. Just using the dye alone looks really ugly but once you put a top coat it really pops the grain and gives a nice shiny translucent finish.


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## BritBoxmaker (Feb 1, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *need a little advice*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Well Tiny, Pau Amarello{yellow), Padauk{red), Purpleheart{purple}, Ebony{black}, Yew (English){orange} and Mahogany{reddy brown}. Garish but thats me. All natural, no dye involved.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *need a little advice*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


In use a lot of water based stains from Home Depot. They can tint it pretty much every color of the rainbow and all shades in between. Of course, being water based, it does raise the grain a bit in certain woods, so you have to deal with that. The stain makes brilliant colors though. If you look at some of my projects, all the reds blues and greens have been done with these stains. As per usual, several thin coats does better than one heavy coat. If you go this route, I highly suggest using some sort of clear topcoat. I have used Minwax oil based poly and Bullseye shellac over this stain with no problems.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *need a little advice*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


All good ideas. However, since I'm in Canada, some are out of the question doe to customs and shipping costs. Have to check out Home Depot's stuff. Maybe get a single color and try it out first. Budget is very limited.

Thanks for the input!


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## waters (Mar 29, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *need a little advice*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Well I've used mixol dyes from woodcraft, they work really well. But if you can't ship them, or budget is an issue, I've heard that RIT fabric dye works well. If you seal it with lacquer after. I don't know how much it costs, but I've seen it in department stores.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*rough patterns*

Louis cube top, half pattern in gray scale.



Rubik's cube pedestal.



These are still rough, but should give an idea of where I'm heading with all this.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *rough patterns*
> 
> Louis cube top, half pattern in gray scale.
> 
> ...


Heading to… no idea where you are heading but it should be fun following…


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *rough patterns*
> 
> Louis cube top, half pattern in gray scale.
> 
> ...


Is the pedestal going to be oriented the same way it is in the design photo? If so, are you going to attach it to a base? Also, are you going to flatten the top and bottom points to make for something solid to attach too? I'm sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself without knowing how you're going to do it. I seen the photo though and thought it would be cool as $#!+ if the pedestal was just like pictured with top on it. 
If it isn't, I'm sorry for all the ridiculous questions.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *rough patterns*
> 
> Louis cube top, half pattern in gray scale.
> 
> ...


Have a look at the next posting to answer most questions.


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## woodspark (May 8, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *rough patterns*
> 
> Louis cube top, half pattern in gray scale.
> 
> ...


Yip, this will keep you out of trouble for some time! Good luck on the build.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*a little clearer now?*

Here's the pedestal attached to the base. Should make things a little clearer.

The pedestal and top will be attached by a thick dowel running through the pedestal from the base to the top.



As usual, comments are welcomed.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *a little clearer now?*
> 
> Here's the pedestal attached to the base. Should make things a little clearer.
> 
> ...


I am still here… watching waiting… looking for the …..final chapter… and the finished item…


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *a little clearer now?*
> 
> Here's the pedestal attached to the base. Should make things a little clearer.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is exactly what I imagined. That is going to be great. Be sure to post plenty of in progress photos.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *a little clearer now?*
> 
> Here's the pedestal attached to the base. Should make things a little clearer.
> 
> ...


Hi all.

Should be getting the wood for the substrate this week. 1/2 inch Baltic birch ply, light yet strong. Figure about a half sheet should do it, with the other half for a table saw cross cut sled that I'll need for this project.


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## jpenme (May 7, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *a little clearer now?*
> 
> Here's the pedestal attached to the base. Should make things a little clearer.
> 
> ...


Hey BT
Thanks for the encouragement on my entry. After looking over yours I htink I'm in trouble. Good luck,.
Jon


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *a little clearer now?*
> 
> Here's the pedestal attached to the base. Should make things a little clearer.
> 
> ...


Hi Jon.

The more the merrier. I think these things are designed to push us to new levels. In my own case, it will be my first veneered project. I've got my fingers crossed… for *both* of us.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*update, September 17*

Hi all.

Well, I picked up a 5×5 sheet of 1/2" Baltic birch plywood yesterday for the substrates and to build a table saw cross cut sled, which I'll need to complete the build. Also picked up a 12×72 inch sheet of maple veneer. There goes $75 of my budget, although about $25 of that will be charged to the sled project, so net is about $50 so far. Another $5 or so will end up in my veneer collection as I won't need more than half of the sheet, even with using some to experiment with dye techniques.

Off to make some sawdust!

Wish me luck.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

BigTiny said:


> *update, September 17*
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> ...


Good luck buddy you made a good deal now we will need to see the finish product.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *update, September 17*
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> ...


You certainly are having fun with this… keep up the posts… along the way.. and enjoy the journey.,...


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*I'll try anything once*

Greetings all.

In an attempt to get the brilliant colors I want for my Sawdust Chronicles challenge build, I've been trying various methods of coloring wood. One of the more unorthodox ways I've tried worked better than I thought it would. *Quite a bit* better to be precise.

Believe it or not, I tried Rit *cloth dye! *Mixed it a little stronger than the directions called for (1 1/2 cups of water per package instead of 2) and tested on some small pieces of maple veneer. Best results came from two coats applied with a small sponge to both sides (in order to minimize the veneer curling up on me). I applied a couple of coats of clear acrylic finish over the dye to seal it and the results were quite good, although not what I was after for my project.

I can see this as a suitable method for special effects where non traditional colors are desired. Another benefit, it's cheap. Here in Winnipeg, it's $2.49 a package, which makes 1 1/2 to 2 cups of solution.

One *warning*: WEAR RUBBER GLOVES! Otherwise you're going to have hands in colors nature never intended for them.

Sorry there are no pictures, but my wife is away for a family wedding and she took our camera with her.


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


This kind of info is just good for everybody. I have used an alcohol soluble aniline die once with very good results but I have to to order it online. I bet that RIT stuff is available at all the fabric outlets. Pics of your color results would be greatly appreciated.


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


I had a amazing accident a few months ago. I was using a veneer softener on some bloodwood veneer, and absentmindedly set one aside on a small piece of maple veneer. IT stuck to it and got pressed flat with the other veneers over night. The next day…. the sap from the bloodwood had stained the maple a pinkish red with the same figured grain patterns as the bloodwood. I am still planning to try this again, in a more controlled manner, but I have started to explore more uses for the veneer softener.

I have also been interested in coloring thanks to other posts here in LJs. Prior, I was more a purist for wood color.. hated staining… well I still hate staining… but color is far more interesting. I tried the alcohol soluble aniline die, and the water soluble…. I tried all chemical combinations possible in my studio, from rubbing alcohol, to salt water, to tung oil…. Veneer softener was absolutely the best for penetration, even after sanding… and once dried it did not bleed into other glued surfaces.. and worked great with most finishes without grain figure loss.. AND most excitingly…. can take colored oil finishes with AMAZING results.


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Oh yes… I also had blue fingers for about 2 weeks. I learned.


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Hey Big Tiny,

When your wifes comes back please post some pictures. We probaly can save some money and get great color with this kind of dye.

how resitant is it to discoloration from light?


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Hi guys.

Well, I'll post a pic or two when able, but the pieces were about the size of a business card and I only tried the scarlet dye, no other colors. I figured it would give me the info I wanted on whether it would do what I wanted or not.

On the issue of coloring, has anyone used lye on oak or cherry? AMAZING! Has the same darkening effect as a couple of centuries of aging.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Another stain is kool-aid, haven't tried it on wood but it works great on shirts


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip AND the warning. It's good to experiment.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


This was an interesting post, BigTiny. Sometimes, doing something unorthodox really teaches people something and pays off big.


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## Chip (Mar 13, 2007)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


I agree with the others Big, experimenting teaches a lot. I've been following this blog with interest. Your enthusiasm in attacking this project head-on is contagious.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *I'll try anything once*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Greetings all.

You guys are going to give me a swelled head if you keep this up. * *

I figure just about *everything *is an experiment to *me *these days, it;s been so long since I did anything in the shop. I've never been one to go the safe route if there was a more interesting one available. I guess I have what some people would call an inquiring mind. (others might say I don't *have *one, you takes your choice.)


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*update*

Greetings all.

Well, I haven't gotten much of anything done this week as my health has taken a rather nasty turn. My back is so sore that I have trouble with the daily grind, let alone working in the shop.

I've been experimenting with veneering, but that's about it.

Keep your fingers crossed for me, okay?


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

BigTiny said:


> *update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Hope you get better soon buddy


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


I got the same problem. I was reaching to scratch my shoulder and got a cramp. 
Then the nec and the back started hurting. 
I use the back roller (foam) and that gets me some relief for a couple of hours.

Good luck with the pain.


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## jpenme (May 7, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Get better soon man. Sorry to here your down


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*another update*

Greetings all.

Well, I've been cutting diamond shapes for the Louis cubes and gluing them onto a piece of paper in preparation for gluing to the substrate for the table top. This is very time consuming, as when you put glue on the veneer it starts to curl up and you have to weight it down until the glue sets, so you only get a dozen or so pieces glued at a time and have to wait an hour or so for the setting process. Boring, but it should be worth it in the end.

This will be my very first marquetry/parquetry ptoject, so I'm anxious to see how it comes out. So far it is taking a lot more time than I thought it would. Such is life, eh?

I hope to have some photos to post tomorrow.

Well, back to the glue pot.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *another update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Try attaching the veneer to a sheet of contact paper.. sticky stuff you use to like shelves.. then glue on the top and flip over…
just a suggestion. I think I read it in the professors blog… Thanks Marty..


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *another update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Too late this time, as it's more than half done on the paper. I've also heard library film is good as it isn't as strong a glue and it's clear so you can see any mistakes.


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## BritBoxmaker (Feb 1, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *another update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Yep, library film is the stuff I use. Available at most good stationery stores.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *another update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


I've never used it but would like to try it. What size(s) does it come in and what lind of price are we talking?

Heck, if it's cheap enough, I may even use it for what it was intended. My private library has several hundred volumes.


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## BritBoxmaker (Feb 1, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *another update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


50 cm x 10 m ( approx 20" x 33' ) in the UK costs £8.50 ($12.75). Probably cheaper in the US. Usually called Book Covering Film.

Tiny, you can take a look at my blog on using it, here


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *another update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


I haven't done veneering yet. 
But one step at the time is what I hear all the time.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*still one more update*

Greetings all.

Well, finally got the camera back from the wife, only to find I hadn't installed the software to use it on our new computer. Took me ages to find the disk. Oh well. finally back in business.

There are two photos here, one of the completed cubes for the top. The other is of a couple of pieces from the same flitch of cherry veneer, one raw and one about a minute after wiping it with a sponge moistened with a 1 to 50 by volume solution of lye in distilled water. Quite the difference, eh? It gets glued to the substrate along with a narrow ebony trim and an ash border about an inch and a half wide tomorrow.



















Paul


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## jackass (Mar 26, 2008)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


*Beutiful Big Tiny. I wasn't aware that lye and distilled water did anything to wood that you would want. I would like to know more about this process when you have time.
Jack *


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Love the cubes! Slick trick with the lye!


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## Maveric777 (Dec 23, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Well, I learned me something new this morning. Thanks for the heads up Tiny. Makes me want to go experiment now.


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## Chip (Mar 13, 2007)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


I've been following this with interest Big. Nice to see it coming together so well. Very exciting!


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


For those interested in the lye treatment, I used a solution of a teaspoonful in a cup of distilled water. If I have the theory right, it reacts with the tannin in wood to do the same thing a lot of normal age and light exposure does, namely to darken those woods containing tannin in higher levels, like cheery, mahogany and oak. It has little effect on non tannin bearing woods like maple and poplar. I applied it with a small sponge, about the same amount as a thinned coat of shellac or like you'd wet wood to raise the grain.
The effect is fairly thin apparently, so you should do most if not all your sanding *before *using the lye. The one good thing is that the wood will darken as much as it ever will, so you don't have to worry about it darkening more in the years to come. You can use lower concentrations for lesser effects, but it may continue to darken with time if you do, much like the untreated variety.
As with any chemical, *extreme* care should be taken when handling lye, as it is both caustic and poisonous. The dust can destroy your lungs. At the very least I would recommend rubber gloves, dust mask and eye protection. Getting the safety sheets on these things is also a good idea.

If you want to try this, please be *very *careful doing so. We can't spare *any *LJs.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Great information as usual.

Jamie
Chaps now installed. Thanks again.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Hi Jamie.

You're quite welcome. Sharing ideas and skills is what this place is all about. I'be never logged on here without learning something. If I can contribute in some small way here, it's just a partial payment for all that I have gotten from the LJ gang.


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *still one more update*
> 
> Greetings all.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information.
Now I feel I need to make one.


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

*Oh well, better luck next time.*

I didn't get it done in time. The old back was protesting too much.

I'll add a few new pics of what is done so far for you all to check out.

I hope to finish it yet, but will have to let my back rest up first. Stay tuned.










Top, top view.










Top, side view.










Blank for Rubik's cube.










Blank and top together for scale comparison.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

BigTiny said:


> *Oh well, better luck next time.*
> 
> I didn't get it done in time. The old back was protesting too much.
> 
> ...


This coming up a treat, Paul…
Hope the back holds up… keep plodding along… can't wait to see it finished..


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *Oh well, better luck next time.*
> 
> I didn't get it done in time. The old back was protesting too much.
> 
> ...


It looks good. Finishing can wait.
Take care of that back, It can be really painfull.


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *Oh well, better luck next time.*
> 
> I didn't get it done in time. The old back was protesting too much.
> 
> ...


Beautiful job, Paul! It will be there when you are ready to finish it. Right now you need to take care of yourself and your back and give your body the rest it is asking you for. I realize how frustrating it can be, but we will all be waiting anxiously when you are ready to proceed. So far it looks wonderful.

Take your time and heal, my friend!

Sheila


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## Chip (Mar 13, 2007)

BigTiny said:


> *Oh well, better luck next time.*
> 
> I didn't get it done in time. The old back was protesting too much.
> 
> ...


You bit off a lot with this project Big. Was wondering how it was coming along and then saw this about your back. Hope it's doing better. Looking forward to seeing more (but please don't rush, let that back heal properly)...


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## BigTiny (Jun 29, 2010)

BigTiny said:


> *Oh well, better luck next time.*
> 
> I didn't get it done in time. The old back was protesting too much.
> 
> ...


Hi Chip.

Back is still giving me problems plus the missus is having troubles with a diabetic ulcer on her foot, so I haven't been in the shop at all lately, but I'll update this when I can.


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