# For a fistful of shekels.



## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

Closest I could find to Festool Green. ; )

And you sir have plenty of class. Anyone who can turn a phrase like you is worthy of his tools….


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Closest I could find to Festool Green. ; )
> 
> - RCCinNC


Close *RCCin* but when it comes to speed, I got it beat








your's only mows down 1 or 2 pedestrians at a time… mine mows millions!

Now the *ROTEX* would wipe the smile of the owner's face.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

well touche mr duck for the rebuttal.you made some good points but for the extra 300+ dollars it still doesn't work for me.not being a duck myself i dont need the duck bill the bosch has a rubber pad on top and with the side handle it is very easy to control.removable cord not needed as most tools dont have that.systainer also not needed since most cases or boxes tools come in get tossed due to space requirements.as far as those versatile pads i believe bosch offers those also,havn't looked into that yet,probably never will.so your point's have failed to sway me sir so i will spend my left over money and buy some wine as RCCinNC suggested.


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

OK - I'm not advocating either way but just a few thoughts:
1) The only unmentioned differences so far between these 2 fine tools is that The RO150 has a RO stroke of 5mm vs 4.5mm for the Bosch. My guess is that this is pretty much a wash. The other item is that the Bosch is over 12% heavier at 5.7# vs 5.07# for the Festool. Just putting his out there for those shopping. 
2) Full disclosure I have a Festool RO90 and A 6" Bosch ROS. I LOVE both and I am a fan of both manufacturers. That said I get tired of the Festool bashers out there, Festool is $$$ but they wouldn't be in business, and as successful if they didn't offer a reason to part with all that hard earned cash. I fully appreciate the law of diminishing returns when investing in tools, cars, audio equipment whatever. If you are a casual user of a tool or have only a limited need for a particular tool then by all means save a few bucks and buy something in the middle of the pack but if you use a tool a lot and it is important for the outcome of your type of work then investing in a higher end - i.e. finer tool makes sense. Nobody sees my tools so they could care less if I'm using a green or red or purple or yellow tool; there is no incentive to spend on an expensive tool other than for the pure enjoyment it may offer or if it allows you to create a better product in the end. To each his (her) own.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

im a festool user myself i own a domino which i love and one of there sanders,in this case i went for the bosch purely for the price difference considering the tools are pretty equal.


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

> im a festool user myself i own a domino which i love and one of there sanders,in this case i went for the bosch purely for the price difference considering the tools are pretty equal.
> 
> - pottz


...and because you could go to the wine store and stock up with the money you saved… Utter genius… ; )


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> im a festool user myself i own a domino which i love and one of there sanders,in this case i went for the bosch purely for the price difference considering the tools are pretty equal.
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


i had said to get more sanding disc's but you knew i meant wine ;-)


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> .... as *most* tools *dont* have that.systainer also *not needed* since…
> - pottz


Most people *don't* have $10,000,000… I suppose your right, they just don't *need* it.

Some cars are *Manwell* while other cars are *Otto*, they both perform similar operations, however, far more people pay *Otto* those extra shekels to do the same task.

Back in 1980, when I used to drive a beat up Holden, I had the chance to drive a real Roll-Royce (an RF friend of the in-laws)... ******************** the drive wasn't 1,000 times better (the cost difference) than the Holden, but even my alcohol soaked brain appreciated the difference and here we are arguing a much smaller fractional difference.
At the end of the day, all the anti Fe*$*tool arguments are about *penny pinching* (ok $ gouging) justification and not the absolute quality of the tool… but then there's no arguing with Philistines. *David* killed *Goliath* with a pebble, but just imagine the damage he could've done with a *SAM*. 


> so i will spend my left over money and buy some wine as RCCinNC suggested.
> - pottz


Now *THAT* is a valid argiument.


> ...and because you could go to the wine store and stock up with the money you saved… Utter genius… ; )
> - RCCinNC


Some may drive in the bottle shop in their beat up VW, while I prefer to purchase my cheap casks from the luxury of my air-conditioned vehicle.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Well said *OWW*, jokes aside, you present a great POV…

It's only the tools I wield that permit me to make some of the stuff I do and not my ability.


> .... I fully appreciate the law of *diminishing returns* when investing in tools, cars, audio equipment whatever….
> - OnhillWW


And to all you skeptics… Of all the people that own a *Mona Lisa*, not too many wouldn't be sitting in front staring at it 24×7.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> im a festool user myself i own a domino which i love and one of there sanders,in this case i went for the bosch purely for the price difference considering the tools are pretty equal.
> - pottz


Bet you think you and *Brad Pitt* are pretty equal, yet your missus married you… go figure.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

why do festool guys get so pissed off by those that dont think there worth the money,maybe because there trying to justify to themselves the money was well spent? hey ive got a couple and it doesn't bother me some think there over priced.in this case as ive said for the two sanders being of equal performance i went with the bosch.hell if it only lasts half as long as the festool im still good.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> why do festool guys get so pissed off by those that dont think there worth the money…
> - pottz


Because we realise this world is *also* populated by *inferior* people.

By the way, why do *pottzy*s get pissed off when they are compared with *Brad Pitt* in the negative.

*PS.* Here's a blank cheque towards your next Fe*$*tool purchase,


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

Kind of ironic given all the Ryobi tools you got LBD… ; )-
And Brad Pitt's got nothing on Pottz. He told me so himself, and I believe him.


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)




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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Kind of ironic given all the Ryobi tools you got LBD… ; )-
> - RCCinNC


That's only 'cause I have a ********************load of bloody *expensive* Ryobi batteries. I keep Ryobi for all those insignificant, pissant tasks that don't matter… much like my few Bosch tools which are hidden behind my Ryobi.


> And Brad Pitt's got nothing on Pottz. He told me so himself, and I believe him.
> - RCCinNC


That's what *Mrs. pottzy* told me… but then again many times I've got into trouble from jealous husbands before demanding to know *under what circumstances* their missus disclosed any info about them… so I won't say it… he can remain the pretty *Mr. PIT*A.


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm not a basher, and I'm not here to bash anyone or Festool but, i can't bring myself to spend the money on a Festool when there are other brands just as good or better. The name on a tool means nothing to me as long as it performs to my expectations, and Festool isn't one of those.

I've never owned a Festool, not because I couldn't afford one, but I found less expensive tools that would do the same job cheaper. When I try to watch a youtube video and the creator starts off saying my Festool this and my Festool that, then it's time for me to leave.

I've had Bosh tools in my personal woodworking shop and the same in our large shop as long as I can remember, so, they must be working for us.

I wrote a review months ago on the Makita track saw. I had tried the Festool, have a friend that has a Festool and I bought the Makita instead of the Festool. Why, because the Makita out performed the Festool hands down at half the price. My personal opinion, and I use my Makita almost everyday with excellence performance.

If I needed one of those sanders, I wouldn't even consider the Festool over the Bosh after reading the reviews. I'll never by one of their Domino tools because I have no plans to ever use dominoes.

To me, Bosh is just an important name more so than Festool in woodworking.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> - RCCinNC


Hope it's electric… can't wait till the cordless *ROTEX* is release.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

I have no vested interest in promoting Fe*$*tool… If only my promotion could make the product cheaper… no, no, no… would only serve in making the owners much bloody richer.

However, there are a few *objections* I have against *objectors*...



> ... I ve never owned a Festool…
> - bruc101


Not having a go *bruc* but often that is the statement that is applicable to most (only most) of the anti-Fe*$*tool proponents…


never used 
cost too much…

BAH pissant argument. By all means spruik the cheaper counterpart, but don't be too anxious to knock a Fe*$*tool on cost.

I have 2 mitre saws, OK I lie, I have 3 but those two are side by side, 









Hitachi on the left (8 yo).
Kapex on the right (3 yo).

They both cut well… I bought the Kapex on a "spare cash" whim and not on a requirement (yeh bloody RF) due to the Hitachi's short comings.
I invite interested visitors in my workshop to try both on some scraps… While the test cuts did not have anyone jumping in their cars making a bee line to a Fe*$*tool retailer, all parties, ranging from the novice to the pro, gravitated to the Kapex without hesitation… now that could mean I have been fooling myself for 5 years (before the Kapex purchase) that the Hitachi was good or the Kapex was way above average. Nearly all freaked out at the 200% price difference, however, even the greatest pessimist contemplated evaluating the worth. The fact that they even considered that speaks heaps.

Any owner opposition to a Fe*$*tool tool is predominantly through a lemon purchase and not from a somewhat satisfied customer… you'll find less % of objection from Fe*$*tool owners than most products and that's not just because of price… I've heard of *Por$€he*'$ never making it out of the showroom before problems.

I say to all, buy your economy tools and sit back and admire your bank statement when you observe your savings sitting in the account in 6 months time earning all that .5% interest, but don't ********************can Fe*$*tool based on cost.

Damn, I gotta stop typing Fe*$*tool with that *$*... it cramps the fingers and is a PITA.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Kind of ironic given all the Ryobi tools you got LBD… ; )-
> And Brad Pitt's got nothing on Pottz. He told me so himself, and I believe him.
> 
> - RCCinNC


thats right aside from his rugged good looks stardom tons of money and beautiful homes and cars,he's got nothing on me. ;-0


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

> Kind of ironic given all the Ryobi tools you got LBD… ; )-
> And Brad Pitt's got nothing on Pottz. He told me so himself, and I believe him.
> 
> - RCCinNC
> ...


It's amazing! Just the same way I see myself! I'll do you better! I've got the good fortune of being bald and 20 lbs. overweight! Ha! Bet Brad Pitt can't say that! I'll bet he doesn't drive a twenty year old stick shift Honda Accord to the Wine Store either. 
Probably owns a lot of Kapex tools too. Poor guy. More's the pity.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Kind of ironic given all the Ryobi tools you got LBD… ; )-
> And Brad Pitt's got nothing on Pottz. He told me so himself, and I believe him.
> 
> - RCCinNC
> ...


well im getting bald and 40lbs over weight so i think ive still got ya. LOL.


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

Yeah Yeah Yeah…rub it in why don't ya. .We can't all have it all man…...; )


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

how the hell did we go from a review to brad pitt comparisons,oh wait the duck.he even high jacks his own threads-lol.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Thank the Viking gods for the Systainers. They help stabilize the attic area of my shop they rest in, as they sit beside the boxes the PC, Boschs and other hand tools came in.

NOTE: It's a real shop, digging around for tolls makes little sense, if efficiency is important.

That aside, I had a Porche. The one which came with VW insignia. Fun, but, a bit older and wiser now, I am much more fond of the more dependable Honda's.

Like the dust collection of the Festools I have, but long to test the Bosch against that.

I don't long for a Festool vac, but wonder how it compares to my around a hundred dollar priced Ridged running through a Dust Deputy, twenty feet of hose and air flow control via holes in the end and PVC over the vac hose with a section removed to raise and lower vac.

NOW, I need to try the Abrinet screen paper and pad to test it against the Festool paper. If it's as good, that pushes Boschs or my Porter Cable variable speed, random orbit polisher-sander nearer the top of the pile and the expensive Festools.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Thank the Viking gods for the Systainers. They help stabilize the attic area of my shop they rest in, as they sit beside the boxes the PC, Boschs and other hand tools came in…
> - Kelly


Right next to all those Bosch boxes with the tools embarassingly still in them I bet.

There was a time when I *loathed* systainers, but then one day, *Odin* answered my prayers when he boomed me down a systainer mobile base. Now they are out in the middle of my shop floor, at easy reach (I actually use my Fe*$*tool tools and not put them on a golden pedestal), and can easily be moved aside with a gentle, well directed, passing of wind… now if you're quick, there's an opening for an old, mature, clever fart.

I won't go out and buy a $100 vac to tell you it's no good, won't be sacrilegious to compare with the Fe*$*tool… I can just lie and say "bull********************" thereby saving a few shekels.
As for Abrinet, all my Fe*$*tool sanders feel very comfortable using it and continually tell me so when we share a cask of vino after a constructive day of *ROS*ing and *ROTEX*ing.


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

> how the hell did we go from a review to brad pitt comparisons,oh wait the duck.he even high jacks his own threads-lol.
> 
> - pottz


But therein lives the joy of it all. Outside of blatant personal disparagement of one poster by another, I hate it when the "subject nazis" take over their little fiefdoms. Brad Pitt or Porsche to bragging about our chromed noggins and need for waist belt extensions makes it all so much more worthwhile. We could do it that way, or be like this:


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

John Cleese. Duck walk.
Carry on….. ; )


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> John Cleese. Duck walk.
> Carry on….. ; )
> 
> - RCCinNC


*Cleese* is going the wrong way…

I can't lift my leg that high, but this is a *Duck walk*... or should I say *March* in *August*...









*PS.* I buy big belts and try to fill them out… and nugget my head as I wear thongs (flip-flops to you Yanks).


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

The only problem Bosch I ever had was a 1/4 sander, which was the worst sander I ever had. Their laser level has been gold, as has the angle finder for doing crown and so on. Even the Bosch belt I bought over forty years ago earned a place in my shop.

Of course, there is the Bosch saber, which is still king in that world, even after Festool copied their invention. If you have to sell the same thing for over twice as much, so have a fraction of the market, you don't get the king's spot, in my less than humble opinion.

I think the two cut about the same and, depending on models, may be near the same for vibration. On later models, I think Fes may have the edge.

That is not to say I don't like the Festool sabers. I do like SOME of them. Having to buy extra bases would not be my thing though. Having to insure I never lost the base giving me the ability to cut and angle doesn't work for me, or a lot of others.

Jumping to Festool, yeah, they're good. We'll see if they last as long as, for one example, my PC variable speed, random orbit sander-polisher, which has lived a commercial life detailing everything from decks to black Mercedes.

Can't say anything about the router. I looks like it would be miserable to use for freehand work, so I've never given it a glance.










As to vacuums, I can speak to a $100.00 vac. I hear Festtools and Feins are quieter, but loud remains loud and needs to be dealt with. If that $100.00 grabs all the dust, why spend $600.00 more?

Many talk about toning down the pull of the vac, so it doesn't suck the sander too hard against the wood and slow the random orbit. My shop vac had that problem, so I ran it through a Dust Deputy, but that didn't tone things down. I added twenty foot of semi ridged hose. That helped and was very practical. Then I drilled three 1/2" holes, over the top of which PVC slips or slides back from, to further reduce or increase pull.

Important add is, SANDPAPER, which was only touched on. I have well over a grand in sandpaper in one form or another (1" belts, 3-1/2" belts, 6" belts, various disks, flapper pads, rolls, sheets, etc.). The Festool was VERY good. Long lasting and it didn't load bad, in part because of the dust collection, but the little PC, when using it with dust collection and paper matching it's ports, does good, though not as good.

You're not the only one who can call bull******************** (respectfully, of course (as you said, you can't say)).

In the end, be it Bosch, PC, Delta, Festool, Fein or any other company, none of them make the best of everything, even when they copy the original. If we have fight hard to defend a lone brand, whether because it comes from der homeland or we were just brought up as Chevy / Ford / Dodge fans means we miss a lot of boats and operating more on emotion than reason.

Out of all this, ONE of the most valuable pieces of info is your Abrinet experience. I assume you use the pads to protect your spendy Hook-and-loop?

Too, it'd be handy to know where you and others find your/their best deals on disks and pads to protect the hook-and-loop.

To date, I've focus on the bigger boxes (gonna use it anyway, so might as well save a few bucks by way of quantity. I've shopped Prime and, I think (big boxes so it was a couple years back) places LIKE "https://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/

I guess it's time to search for Festool sandpaper vs Abrinet screen for post of a review of that.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> ..... You re not the only one who can call bull******************** (respectfully, of course (as you said, you can t say)).....
> - Kelly


Looks like I'm caught out… I actually hate Fe*$*tool… but like to spend money. If the missus can buy shoes for many, many, many, hundreds of shekels for a few hours wear a year… I can lash out on expensive tools….

Just kidding, I like the way Fe*$*tool integrate. Like the way the router will work with the tracksaw track… 
Yeah, I do love making jigs, but if there's one out there that does the job, I'd rather waste my time on something more constructive like drinking.

As for Abranet, I swear by it, however, it does tear easily if you catch an edge. I buy mine in bulk (box of 50) and havent had the chance to compare with the Fe*$*tool version. My old non-Abranet discs I now use on my hand sanding pads.

Like you, I think the money I've spent on sanding consumables may even outweigh my direct Fe*$*tool purchases… a set of flapper pads cost a few hundred when I include shipping (can't be bought here in Australia tha last I looked and stocked up)...


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Back to the pad between the Abrinet screens, do you think they knock down the flow of dust significantly?


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Back to the pad between the Abrinet screens, do you think they knock down the flow of dust significantly?
> - Kelly


I never got my nose close enough to see if I could sniff out the differenece. The closest I have to an accurate meter is a *vino* metering beaker in gallon increments, no micro notches.

Analysing it in layman terms, Abranet should not be as efficient as properly aligned pads as the mesh must (I believe) interfere with the 100% of air flow somewhat, however, any "loss" would be regained from badly aligned holes.

With a poor shop-vac I could imagine clogged paint could impede flow as clogging could build up over the air flow holes which would be impossible using "normal" discs. However, it may just be a case of dropping a grit and cleaning the pads.

The option of leaving the discs on the bench with the hooks up and simply placing the sander on top, makes loading a thoughtless operation with negligible flow sacrifice. Also the mesh permits better compressed air cleaning.

I cannot speak for cheaper brands of tools, however, Fe*$*tool sanders now come with enhanced dust extraction pads with a greater proliferation of smaller holes. The *ROTEX* out of the box,








and a *ROS* later purchase,








I also found I never aligned my 1/3 pads as accurately as I should… but no issue with Abranet,









Now how these small holes integrate into the internals of the sander, I have no idea… it could be just a case of smoke and mirrors, however, I'm prepared to risk it.


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## Hondo03 (Nov 13, 2018)

I feel that you should buy the best quality tool that you can afford. Some people can afford more than others and that's ok. I'm honest enough with myself that if I could afford Festool I would have a garage full of them.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> well touche mr duck for the rebuttal.you made some good points but for the extra 300+ dollars
> - pottz


Having used a Rotex one time, quit after about a minute my right arm (the one holding the cursed thing) went absolutely numb. I already had the far superior Bosch at home. Mine is the older 6" the 1250DEVS. I love it, but my Green tool friend forced me to try his beloved, POS sander, and, well, it messed up my arm for a week, only took a minute. No thanks. Heck, I even have an older Metabo 6", badged as a Rigid. It's also a really good tool, but the Boschh edges it out.

Kelly. I was at a show once, and bought something Bosch, don't really remember the purchase, but the rep threw in a 1/4 sheet sander, said here take this away from here, I'm tired of looking at it. I love that little thing, well as much as you can love a 1/4 sheet sander.

I'm like Pottzy. I too own a Domi-NO, like the tool, hated the price, and don't feel I have come close to recouping it yet. But for the most part I feel there are other much more responsibly priced tools by other makers that are as good, usually better than the green variety in ALL of the other entries they have. Of course when I bought the Domino, they tried to give me a glass of that green cool-aid. I said no thanks…...


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> well touche mr duck for the rebuttal.you made some good points but for the extra 300+ dollars
> - pottz
> 
> Having used a Rotex one time, quit after about a minute my right arm (the one holding the cursed thing) went absolutely numb…
> - therealSteveN


You certainly held it the wrong way… I have never recommended a *Rotex* for the armpit… however, I bet you have the smoothest pit that the missus would be jealous of.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

My dislike for Bosch's 1/4 sheet sander was for a specific one. I know nothing of other models they made.

I gave it a fair chance, which included sending it back to the factory. On it's return, it worked for a couple weeks, then, again, would not hold a sheet.

I might have given it to a friend, with a warning, or I might have Good Will'd it. It was bad enough I even did a review of it:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/reviews/7050



> Kelly. I was at a show once, and bought something Bosch, don t really remember the purchase, but the rep threw in a 1/4 sheet sander, said here take this away from here, I m tired of looking at it. I love that little thing, well as much as you can love a 1/4 sheet sander.
> 
> - therealSteveN


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Inspired by this thread, I bought a box of 180 Abranet disks for the Rotex and its baby sister. I like the paper, but note, with the protective pad, it doesn't pick up dust as well as the Festool disks. Of course, that could change by swapping pad manufacturers, just as swapping filter manufacturers makes the difference between the amount of air that passes freely between two different MERV 11 filters.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> ... with the protective pad, it doesn t pick up dust as well as the Festool disks…
> - Kelly


Sorry *K*, what do you mean by *protective pad*... if the Fe*$*tool discs picks up dust better, I might just have to give them a try once I use up my current Abranet batch… if only I didn't buy Abranet in bulk.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

They are protective pads that mount to your sanding pad, to avoid damaging the spendy little hook-and-loop pads of my Festools.

Many complain of melting the loops/hooks (?) of their pads. I can relate, based on my experiences with my Fein Tool Multimaster. Too much pressure and you have an excuse to make the original pad into a custom one for fine Fein (yeah, just did that) tool sanding.

These are the ones I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LXHJIB0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Of course, the Festool disks work well because they have a lot of holes that line up with the "lot of holes" of the pad.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Thanks *K*... I think I have a couple of those… no idea *where* or *why*, but now I know *what* they are.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

I'm looking into the Rotex, Thanks for the review.


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