# Is Waterlox wipe- or brush-on or wipe-on/wipe-off?



## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

How do you apply Waterlox, brushing, wiping and leaving it, wipe-on/wipe-off? Do you dilute it depending on application technique? Anyone like it better than Arm R Seal, Minwax Wipe-On Poly?

How forgiving is it on vertical, already-assembled pieces like table bases? How forgiving is it on horizontal surfaces? Is the low-voc version recommendable? Does it it still flash off after 30 days?

Thanks!


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## Iguana (Jun 22, 2011)

Wipe on, wait for 5-10 minutes, wipe off. Want to wipe off before it becomes too sticky. No dilution.

Not sure what you mean by forgiving, but I find no difference in application or end result between horizontal and vertical parts.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I've had nothing less than excellent results with Waterlox Original product. 
When in doubt , read the label and follow the manufacturers application schedule : )


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Hmm, that's the thing, I read the instructions (downloaded from their site online). I don't think it says anything about wiping off, but when I've talked to people about it, that's what they've told me. I'll visit Woodcraft todayadn check.

HAS ANYONE USED THE LOW-VOC FORMULA? IS IT REALLY BETTER IN TERMS OF A SHORTER PERIOD OF FLASHING OFF FUMES?

By more 'forgiving' on vertical surfaces I meant not many runs/sags. However, if it's wiped off I guess that does not matter, huh?

Thanks guys!


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Hi , see page 10 at this link : )
Hope it helps with your question ….if I read it correctly , *do not* try to wipe the finish off. Apply it and allow it to soak in and self-level. There's 13 pages to read , but I believe page 10 is most relevant to your question.

http://www.waterlox.com/assets/pdfs/woodworking-guide-FINAL.pdf


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Well there you go. I was very sleepy when reading that doc, LOL! Whoops, missed it. Apparently the guys at a certain wood-related store here in town totally ignore the directions and still get a wonderful finish. Same with other peeps; that's why I was confused-I have read and heard so many people explaining VERY contradicting techniques for applying this finish yet everyone seems to love it. Every time I ask about a finish for tabletops this, Arm R Seal and very lastly Minwax WipeOn Poly get recommended. The one people I've talked to have recommended the most is this one.

Anyhow, I already bought it. I'll experiment later this week. Thanks guys


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I used Waterlox on this Walnut coat rack and it came out just fine : )

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/26952










ps: , those aren't shadows of the coathooks , they're reflections.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Dusty, That coat rack actually came out a lot better than "just fine"


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Thank you , Andy : )* I couldn't capture the "depth" of the finish in the pictures , but it looked like the hooks were sitting in a puddle of water. The Walnut color and grain were really brought to life by the Waterlox.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

There are alot of people who umm don't really know what you're talking about therefore they automatically assume to follow the directions for wipe on poly I guess. I have done both methods of application, but I have never wiped it off, works a little better with a rag, unless you have inside corners.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Large horizontal surface: Wipe it on THICK with a lamb's wool pad like a floor applicator.
Applied this way, 3 coats is PLENTY.

Vertical surface. Wipe it on with a rag. Thinner coats and more of them. DO NOT wipe it off. Just rub it in. You'll need 2 to 3 times as many coats this way, but it won't drip or sag.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Hey Charlie:

Thanks for your suggestions. Have you ever tried brushing it? WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE NEXT QUESTIONS: DOES ANYONE HAVE A FAVORITE BRUSH BRAND FOR WATERLOX? FAVORITE PAD APPLICATOR BRAND, IF THERE ARE ANY DIFFERENCES?

Dusty, that looks great.
I got the low-voc clear/sealer.
I also got the low-voc Satin.

We'll see what happens…


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

Millo, I was introduced to Waterlox by Allan Little. He has some excellent videos on applying the product here:


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Millo* , I haven't tried the low-voc , so let us know how you make out with it. Thanks for the compliment : )
*Charlie* , that island top looks awesome !


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## Iguana (Jun 22, 2011)

This was using the satin product, no sealer. Two coats, wiped on/off:










Different look. I wasn't going for a film buildup, but a soft feel to the wood. It has a soft glow to it that doesn't really come out in the pictures.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Millo, yes, I have brushed it AND I have wiped it on.
For the walnut island top I wanted a good film thickness. My cooktop is set into it and it gets a LOT of use. I have another cabinet I built with a smaller countertop section, still walnut, that I brushed on the first 3 coats and then wiped on 5 or 6 more. The gloss is noticeably less on that smaller top.

Note that ALL of these application methods are fine. I do NOT agree with the wiping OFF part being suggested by some. If you wipe it on as soon as it starts to dry it gets sticky and I think you're asking for trouble. UNLESS there is a specific look you're after AND unless you can experiment a bit to get the technique down, I wouldn't try to put it on heavy and then try to wipe it off. Just wipe it on from the get-go and be done with it. But you NEED to wipe on MANY coats to get a film build sufficient for anything that's going to see some use.

With that said, as you can see, Mark has his technique down. For the piece he's showing and for the look he wanted, he got the wipe on/wipe off to work (and I love that table by the way, Mark. I see some Greene and Greene influence in there?)

Waterlox is a very versatile finish. I use the original. It slowly loses gloss over a period of 6 to 9 months.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

OH! For an applicator pad…. I used a piece of an old white cotton t-shirt , folded and stuffed into a discarded panty hose from my wife. I use that for a LOT of finishes. Even been known to go to the store and buy cheap hosiery just to make pads from.

For a brush I really liked a china bristle for this but any decent bristle would work. Before use I would soak in mineral spirits and then spin dry so it was almost dry again. I massage the bristles to see if I can induce any pullouts to happen BEFORE I start using the finish.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Nice work , Mark : )


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh, Charlie: yes, that looks awesome.

Mark, that is beautiful. Breathtaking. OK, I'm not exactly good at this whole finishing thing and I simply do NOT have a well-ventilated area that is also clean enough, so wipe-on/wpie-off is always welcome.

Guys I'm light years behind from your skills, but hopefully I'll pull this one off.

I read somewhere else about diluting for wiping on/off.

Charlie: I'm finishing another project right now w/ another product and that is the kind of applicator pad (hosiery) I plan to make for the last two coats.

In terms of a bristle brush, I've thought about Gramercy, but wow $. I saw Homestead (Jeff Jewitt) carries another on that also looks interesting, also $. For the moment I'll try the samples with the applicator pad (rag/s inside hosiery).

Thanks a million guys. As usual, very valuable info. If you have more to say, or more projects to show off, please keep it coming.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Drop in at some arts/crafts supply stores. Like Hobby Lobby, Michael's, I know there's a bunch more…

Very often you can get really good quality bristle brushes for less than you can from a woodworking supply place. Not sure why. Good quality as in…. I'm an artist and have had the same 4" wide china bristle for over 20 YEARS. Yeah… that good. 'Course you gotta take care of them. 

I've also been known to use a cheap chip brush as a "throw away" bristle brush. They work fine. You just have to be diligent about getting any pullouts out of them before using them. Only takes a few minutes. Also I use a "rattle box". An 18" square cube with one side open and a 1" dowel running through the middle (just glued into opposing sides). Final step of cleaning a brush is to "rattle" the bristles against that dowel inside the cube. Cube catches splatter. Bristles are nearly dry when done. I'll often put some brush conditioner on a brush I know I won't be using for a while (like months) as I always pretreat a brush with whatever solvent is appropriate to the finish I'm applying anyways. My wife thinks I'm kinda anal about brush cleaning but if I'm going to spend money on a good brush I don't want to find it hard as a carp someplace.


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## Iguana (Jun 22, 2011)

*Charlie*: Just a little G&G influence, yes  The design of the drawer pull/indent and the ebony detail at the bottom of the aprons are mine, but the rest is Blacker house.

















The application technique is dependent on wiping it off quickly. I aim for 5 minutes, but 10 is probably OK if the can is fresh and the ambient conditions aren't too warm. Once it starts to get sticky, you've got about 30 seconds to complete the wipe off.

On this table, I did the application in 7 separate steps (underside, legs, half of the brackets, other half of brackets, aprons, drawer front and top). The can wasn't fresh, and just doing the top (both sides) was at the outer limit of usable time. I used a rag to apply a liberal coat to the bottom of it, flipped it over and did the same on the top. Waited a timed 2 minutes, and started wiping off the bottom. By the time I had worked my way to the last bits of the top, it was dicey. Admittedly, I was taking time around all the little ebony details to ensure there was no pooling, but I didn't think I was being slow.

And it definitely isn't a result suitable for all purposes. It offers better protection than a simple oil finish, but not much more. For something that will have to take a bit of abuse - a table top, kitchen island, door, etc. - I would use the recommend brushing application.

*Millo*: Depending on how much of this you plan on doing, disposable foam brushes work very well for one-time uses.


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Charlie, MArk: thanks for the suggestions on the brushes.

MArk, just wondering: Do you think I can brush some coats, then wipe on/off the last few?


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## Iguana (Jun 22, 2011)

I can see that causing problems. Depending on how the solvent in the new coat dissolves into or softens up the cured coat(s), you might end up with a mess as you wipe it off. And if the cured coat stays hard, wipe on/off won't leave much of anything behind.

The technique works for what I did because it was on raw wood, allowing the oil to soak into the wood. It also helps that the sapele has pores for some Waterlox to sink into, partially filling them by the second coat. You have neither of those to work with by the time you've brushed on 3 or 4 coats.

That being said, I've never tried what you suggested. Maybe try that approach on a sample and see what happens.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I can save you some experimenting here. If you already have 2 or 3 brushed on coats, you CAN wipe on additional coats, BUT (and it's a big but) unless it's a very small piece and you're very fast, don't plan on wiping OFF. Waterlox is made such that one coat burns into the previously applied coat. That's why you don't need to sand between coats (unless you get nibs or something in there). I had 2 coats brushed on, I wiped on 4 more coats. This was on a piece of walnut countertop (no fancy moldings or anything) that was about 33×24. So I could do it real fast.

It was like…. wipe it on…. done. I could not go back and touch anything or it would pull. I sanded that one piece a ew times to correct mistakes while going around the learning curve. 

THEN I did the island top. That got done with a lamb's wool floor applicator. It went on heavy. I had a brush handy to run around the edges to catch any drips. 3 coats and it was done. Sanded lightly between coats 2 and 3. I found that when using the lamb's wool, the best results were achieved by doing the least amount of work. The best results were from getting the right amount of Waterlox on the pad and going from one end to the other on that 8 foot island top. One pass, heavy coverage. No skips. If I ran out before the end of a pass, I'd reload and come back from the other direction so I worked into the wet edge.
I REALLY went heavy on the first coat. I was going for a lot of penetration and fairly high film build.

It's really about how much film thickness you think you need. I knew I wanted a lot for the island top. I had several smaller pieces and brushing those on was fine.

True story: There's a maple plank countertop in my area (like my island top, but in maple). Inch and a quarter thick. Finished with nothing but waterlox original. It has an underslung sink in it. Been in everyday use for 10 or 12 years now and it still looks perfect. No deterioration around the sink at all. I found it AFTER I had done my island top but it gives me a high degree of confidence in using wood for a countertop.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

OH! And on the island top or probably anything you're doing…. I coated the BOTTOM of the island top, then my wife would come out and with nitrile gloves on we'd flip it and I'd do the top surface. Talk about heavy (and SLIPPERY!). Then walk away and let it dry for at least 24 hours before flipping it, doing the bottom and then flipping again and doing the top.

So coat all sides so you don't get differential moisture transfer


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Charlie, thanks a million for your suggestions, and relating your experience with this product. Have you ever brushed or wiped on the satin? Does it easily leave flattening-agent streaks, or is it hard to screw up? I find Arm R Seal satin is easy to screw up on darker woods, or maybe this last can I got is just kinda temperamental.


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