# Grizzly G0715P newbies point of view.



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Gilly
Thanks for the review. I'm a Grizzly tool fan and have had good luck with the 6 or so pieces of equipment I have.
I think many of your Con's are pretty much what's necessary for most new saws set up. I have never owned a Grizzly table saw so I can't say anything about the fence ,but that is a critical part of a table saw. Like all tools no matter the brand there are good ones that come out of factory's and lemons but a good customer service should help cure any problems that might get by their quality control department . Thanks for a well written review particularly for someone who had never owned a table saw before.


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Bad news, after reading http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2090 by Alpiner I decided to check my mitre slot to my blade at other elevations, since I have always set it up at full height. It appears that as I move the blade down, the back side of the blade starts to run out when testing it against the mitre slot. In fact as I drop it down to 1 inch above the table, there is nearly a 1/16th of an inch run out on the back of the blade to the mitre slot. The interesting thing is the front of the blade doesn't change at all, it stays pretty much dead on at all elevations.

How concerned should I be? Any ideas on how I should fix this?

I am dropping the review score to 2 stars until I can fix this.


----------



## mattg (May 6, 2008)

Hey Gilly, I'm no engineer, just a former recovering ASE Certified Auto Tech, and woodworker. I like to fix my own issues on my possessions after watching what some "techs" work on customer's vehicle. After reading both your and Alpiner's, I would look at the torque on nut#103 in the parts diagram. I have a few Grizzly machines, and incorrect torque on fasteners is a issue. I had a set screw loose on my joiner, and it came out and kept the pulley from turning on the cutterhead, after the keyway flew out!! I would check that nut, and the pivot pin since you are having problems with runout at different elevations. Just my opinion.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g0715p_pl.pdf


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Matt, I checked the nut, and you are right as you loosen that nut the problem gets worse, so I tightened it as far as it would go, then I backed it off a quarter turn. Now I am back at square one with the same issue. Thanks so much for the ideas, I want to see if I can fix this without having to work with Grizzly.

What is the pivot pin you are talking about? I am not using the mitre gauge, and that was the only pivot pin I could find in the parts list.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Matt, do you have a foot-pound/newton(?) recommendation for that bolt? This is a popular machine here and I bet it could help a lot of folks out


----------



## Lorraine (May 29, 2011)

This site is awsome and the timing wouldn't be better. I am considering the Grizzly hybrid tablesaw but I am now rethinking my thoughts. One of my reasons for upgrading from my contractors tablesaw to a hybrid was for a better fence. Looks like the Grizzly may not be the answer.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

Miter fences that come with table saws are exactly like the blades that come on bandsaws. You can use them but they aren't worth a damn.

Good choice in the Incra!

I personally like the power switch where I can hit it with my leg. You get used to it after a while and it really comes in handy when things happen that you need two hands for and need to turn off the saw!


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

No matter what brand of saw you buy you my need to make these adjustments this is not anything new or really that unusual. The fact you you have these adjustment is annoying but doable . If It's a real defect then that's a real problem, again almost all brands have saws that have defects or need to be tuned before you use them. I've bought a high end band saw that came with a number of problems some I'm still working on and it had great reviews before I bought it.


----------



## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Gary hit it on the head. I like the shop fox fence that came with my 1023SL which is almost like a biesmeyer clone.

I also agree with Jim here that a few of those things are pretty common on table saws. If you get one right out of the box that is perfect on all aspects then count yourself lucky. Myself, personally I am extremely picky and will try to get it as close to perfect as I can when setting the machines up. It took me about 30 minutes to fix my rip fence to where it's got a 0.001 - 0.002 runout. It came with a 0.008 - 0.009 from the factory, but that wasn't good enough for me.

Honestly, if the box was damanged I'm not sure I would have accepted it to begin with, but you should have noted on the packing slip what was damanged so it's covered by Grizzly.

I own a few grizzly machines and a few other major brands. If you want to get precise you'll find you need to fine tune the adjustements on most machines.

Kevin


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Lorraine, don't let my review discourage you from seriously considering the saw. I have no doubt that I will either be able to correct this myself, or Grizzly will help me fix it by either suggesting a fix or sending a new saw. Its a good saw, and like others had said, every saw has to be calibrated.

I wouldn't be as concerned with this problem if it was happening at all elevations, but the fact that it only happens when I lower the blade concerns me, and add to the fact that it only happens to the back of the blade to a large degree makes me think it might be a production issue.

I believe this is why I was so frustrated with the fence, because I was calibrating it against the blade at full height, then I would lower the blade to the height I would cut the wood and all of a sudden I am 1/16th variance.

I am holding out hope that I can figure out a fix!


----------



## Chipy (Apr 20, 2011)

I have to echo A1Jim point even Powermatic or Jet may have some tweeks that need to be address before regular operation.But if the fence is junk it is junk.As much as I would love to buy PM66 or a Jet it is not in my budget.You will still get years of service from a Grizzly or Shop fox.


----------



## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Hopefully you can get it fixed with minimal effort gillyd. Once you do you will get many years out of it, just do regular maintenance on it.


----------



## zfrme66 (Apr 2, 2011)

Hi Gilly,
Please don't think that a Biesmeyer fence will be the answer for a great fence.I updated to a Bies a few years ago and although it's rugged and can be squared easily,the sides of the fence are not at all flat.Flatness deviates to almost .010 in one spot.I called the company and All I got foe an answer was" Well I can send you another one,but it won't be any better". I was astonished and very ticked off. I never heard of having to shim a $400 fence??
Bob


----------



## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

I fully agree with the blades that come with any new saw and that the "basic" fence usually insn't the best.

What I don't agree with is the suggestion that the blade changing angle to the miter slot as it is raised and lowered is common on new saw. Please don't try to tell me that is considered normal on a new saw to always recalibrate it when raising the blade. My 20 year old emerson doesn't have this problem.

If that 1/16" was toward the fence, then the chance of kickback goes up significantly.

Steve.


----------



## anoldwoodchuck (Feb 13, 2010)

Excellent review and subsequent discussion.


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Yeah at this point I am waiting for Grizzly to get back to me, there is no reason the alignment should change as I move the blade up and down.

Thanks for all the help guys, up to this point I am not sure what else to try.


----------



## mattg (May 6, 2008)

Gilly, look at #132. I think it is what the nut is attached to.


----------



## mattg (May 6, 2008)

If you tighten that nut till it stops, does the problem go away?


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Matt,

If I tighten that nut all the way, it stays pretty much where its at, its when I loosen that nut that the run out starts to get larger. I'm wondering if I used a smaller washer it would allow me to tighten it further and would close the gap, but that is purely speculation on my part.


----------



## mattg (May 6, 2008)

Gilly, just tighten that sucker up, and see if the runout goes away wile the blade is traveling. I think that ear on the motor should be tight, and that the whole assembly pivots on the pivot pin. Call Grizzly, and ask them if that nut should be torqued down. If you tighten it all the way, does it affect the blade travel? Is it harder to crank the blade pulley?


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Matt, yes you are absolutely correct, when I crank that sucker down as far as she'll go it really takes some elbow grease to crank that blade up and down, that is why I had to back it off a quarter turn from full.

I talked to Grizzly today, and they recommended shimming the back left trunnion and that is what I will be doing here in about 5 minutes. I'll let you know how it works out.

You guys rock btw!


----------



## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Gillyd, I was also told to shim the back trunnion the first time I called Grizzly. It made no difference. Or is your problem different than what I experienced per my review? Grizzly verified today that I received a full refund on my returned G0715P. Good luck with yours.


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

OK, there is no way this is going to work. All I am doing is changing where the problem is when I shim one of the back corners. I shimmed the back and the problem reversed itself, the only consistent thing about this you can bet its going to change as you move the blade up and down.

Alpiner, I have a feeling this is the exact same issue you had. Did you have to pay for shipping to have it returned?

I am wondering if I shouldn't buy local (woodsmith store in des moines), that way at least I could get some local help with something strange like this. I guess we'll see how Grizzly does with my situation.

I wouldn't mind going the same route you did Alpiner and buying the 0690 but when I mentioned upgrading to my wife she gave me one of those stares that I think all married men have seen.

Its too bad, cause I really like this saw, but would like it much better if I could actually use it.


----------



## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I was reimbursed everything - the saw, the tax and the shipping. Hopefully you kept all the packing materials. It would be good if you also kept the pallet. UPS can provide the clear wrap, if you ask them, to hold the multi-sided cardboard packing if you don't have a way to band it. You will need to get a RA, return authorization, number from Grizzly. It takes a couple of days, but Grizzly will email an RA form that you can print out. You will need two copies, one to give to the UPS driver, and one for your file. You will need to identify on the form that it's shipped collect for Grizzly to pay.

I'm very satisfied with the G0690, and believe you will be as well. I believe it's of equal quality and less expensive than, say, Jet's cabinet saw. It's very heavy, so I'd recommend a HTC 3000 mobile base vs. Grizzly's Shop Fox. The HTC may still be on sale from either Woodcraft or Rockler, I forget which, for $70, maybe even $60.


----------



## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Check the run out of the blade. If it is parallel at one height of the blade but changes as you drop it down, it may be the blade is not true. Spin it around with an indicator or with a stick close to the teeth to see if it is true. I have a Ryobi thin kerf and you could see it run out as it slowed down. I finally replaced it with a better blade but still thin kerf and it made quite a difference. Original blades are usually throw aways.
I love Grizzly tools and they work good but still I had a key drop out of the drive pulley on my jointer because the set screw came loose. Luckily it did not fall out and I found the key. I replaced the screw with a little blue vibra tite on it and it is good to go.

.........Jim


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Alpiner, I hope they take it back since all of the packaging is long gone in the trash!


----------



## VillageCarver (Mar 5, 2011)

Hi Gillyd,
I've read several reviews about these hybrid saws and it seems that there are 
mixed opinions as with everything else. Seems that the old adage "you get what you pay
for stands here as well". I've asked some to explain to me the difference between a hybrid and 
a full fledged cabinet saw. I've come to the conclusion that a cabinet saw will hold its tolerences
better than a hybrid because of the way the trunion is mounted to the cabinet and that they 
are also easier to adjust if they are out. Am I correct in this?


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi Dan,

I do know its preferred to have cabinet mounted for stability, and when one is mounted that way you also typically get a better motor, its heavier, and an over all better quality of build.

I am looking at the 0690 from grizzly as a replacement. I also live very close to the Woodsmith store, so I am debating again whether to go local or not.


----------



## Simons44 (Jan 9, 2009)

Your review made me nervous about having run out on my G0715P that I haven't noticed. I checked it every 1/2" and no run out that could be detected without a feeler gauge.


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Simon, good to hear. I would caution you to check at different elevations. Maybe that is what you meant by every 1/2 inch. Mine was fine at the top most elevation, but as I lower it, that is when the run out occurs (up to 1/16th of an inch!).

I'm still waiting on grizzly, Monday is when they said they would call me back. They did give me a heads up when I called on Friday that it was looking like it was going to be a return. Depending on what they say, I may go ahead and buy the 0690 + one of their Jointers and have them ship it to me when they come pick up the saw. I'm hoping they would be kind and not charge shipping, since I have gone through some hassle with the 0715P.


----------



## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear your grizzly has these issues. They are a great machine. A year ago February I purchased a Craftsman Hybrid/Contractor #21833, needless to say it had some issues (One just as you are having) Woodcraft referred me to the following:

www.tablesawalignment.com/

It was worth the reading and the tips very helpful


----------



## Simons44 (Jan 9, 2009)

gillyd, I raised the blade to the top and then lowered it and checked every 1/2 inch. What a bummer, sorry to hear about your issues. Please let us know what they tell you.


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

I've sent the pictures they were asking for, I've had to call them every day now to make sure they are following up. I hope the return goes smoother than this last week.

Does anyone think its unreasonable to ask for free shipping if I upgrade to a 0690 table saw and 0452 jointer, I figure they are coming to pick up my saw, so couldn't they throw these two items on the truck when they come?


----------



## Simons44 (Jan 9, 2009)

"I figure they are coming to pick up my saw, so couldn't they throw these two items on the truck when they come?"

I think your logic is off. When a saw is shipped to you, it's not put on 1 truck at Grizzly and that truck is driven to your door. It's put on a truck, driven to a hub, off loaded, reloaded on another truck, driven to your city's hub, off loaded and then put on another truck for delivery. There may be more or less hubs involved depending on your distance from the Grizzly warehouse it ships to/from.

With all that said, if there is a manufacturing problem and it's on their end, not yours then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for free shipping. I would expect free return shipping if there is a problem with the purchased item.


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Well today I purchased a General International 50-260 and a Jet Jointer (JJ-6CSDX 6" DLX) from my local woodsmith store. They are delivering it to my house tomorrow!

After having to call Grizzly again this morning, they told me I'd have to build a crate and put it on a pallet. I had grown upset over the fact that they did not appear to willing to help me (they did not call me back in an entire week after many calls and promises of return calls). I will be taking the GI saw out of the box it was delivered in, and putting the Grizzly in its place, to be sent back to where ever it came from. Maybe they will see the humor in it.

I am resigned to the fact that I would rather enjoy dealing with my local woodsmith store, they have everything there and I will work to build a relationship with them. I do feel comfortable that I will have some local help if necessary and someone I can talk to directly if necessary.

I want to be fair to Grizzly, and I believe that if it wasn't for this defect in the saw, it would be the saw I more than likely would have for many years and would love it! I am actually more upset at their lack of customer service, which I had understood to be second to none. I know others have had great customer service.

None the less I will be writing a review of the GI and Jet Jointer when they come.

Thanks all for helping!


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks for the update. It's disappointing to hear several CS complaints about Grizzly lately, but it's been duly noted. Grizzly sells a lot of tools, so the number of problems will be proportionately higher than a company that sells less, but I can't help but wonder if there's truly a drop in the quality of service, an increase in CS requests that's overwhelming their staff, both, or if it's just random luck of the draw?

GI and Jet are both reputable companies too. The GI50-260 is a 3hp cabinet saw, which is a nice step up from the G0715P…closer to the G1023SL. Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## Szczuldo (Oct 21, 2010)

Looks like this runout issue is something I should check for when I get home tonight. Due to school load I have not been as active with it since the winter. I was planning on getting it back into running shape soon and starting some projects. I'll check this out before hand.

One quick thing. Are you checking the runout with a plate installed or the blade? Reason I ask is the back of the blade at 1" is a lot closer than the back of the blade at full extension.


----------



## paulzall (Jan 13, 2011)

gillyd,
Sorry to hear about your bad luck. It looks like the only way to correct your problem with the G0715P is to replace the motor mount casting, which is probably warped. There is no way to fix it with any "adjustments", shims, etc. Shipping it back was the right choice. (More details are available in comments under alpiner's review.)

Your new saw sounds like a great heavy duty model. I have a Jet 6CSX jointer and it's a very nice machine. I'm sure you'll be happy with yours.
-Paul


----------



## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Update:

Grizzly returned all of my money plus the original shipping cost. I have to give them an A+ for standing behind their product. They did find the saw to be defective.

I am going to upgrade my review from 2 stars to 3 stars just based on the fact that they stood behind their product. I will still consider them for future tools.


----------

