# What's Your Opinion of Sorby Chisels



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Folks, especially you lovers of handtools, what is your opinion of Sorby Cabinetmaker's Bench Chisels. I've been wanting a set of these for a long time and I saw a set on Ebay the other day for an unused 9 piece set of these for $249 but the 1/8 inch chisel was missing. I almost bought this set and probably would have except that I haven't bought anything this expensive on Ebay for a long time and Paypal was the only option so I passed it up because I haven't used Paypal except for twice in 2 years for minor purchases. It was a Buy it Now auction and didn't want to take a chance with Paypal messing up and leading to negative feedback. I have over 450 purchases on my Ebay record with 99% positeve feedback record and don't want to mess it up. So I want to get my Paypal account totally squared away before starting to buy again on Ebay.

Woodcraft wants $470 for this set but you can get it else where for $370. (these are the Sorby beveled chisels with the hexagon handles and the brass ring at top and bottom (no 167-s9 on the webpage).

What is your opinion of these chisels or do you feel like some other brands are equivalent or even better. I would appreciate your advice. This would be a big outlay for me. Right now I have a whole hodgepodge of different chisels that I use. Thanks.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

i have the sorby paring chisels
(set of 4)
blades are 8" long
(over all 15 ")

the steel is excellent
not beaters
the blades are made to 'flex' slightly

sorby is good


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

sorry can´t help you there Helluvawreck

Dennis


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Well, when I look at my collection of chisels I see the same as you- all ages, makes and types. But, they all work and do exactly what I need. I'd guess I'd rather spend my $$ on stuff I don't have or something that breaks and no longer functions. Guess that's why I drive a VW beetle instead of a Cadillac ;^)

Lew


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Sorta depends on what you will use them for. I have a set of 6 bevel edged Marples that serve me well. They are so old that they still have wooden handles. 
My use is trimming mortises, tenons, cleaning grooves and etc. 
A friend has a set of Pfiels that, IMHO, are much better than Sorby. And much better than Marples, too. But then, Lew and I have the same philosophic bent.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Well, I appeciate what you both have said, *Lew* and *Gene*, however, I have had it in my mind to get a set of these (or another good set) for 40 long years so it's not exactly like I haven't waited on a good set for a long time.  I bought my first basic set of woodworking tools 40 years ago the year that I was married and they cost me $1000. I still have and use everyone of those tools.  Most all the other tools that I have acquired over the years have come from Ebay and have been older tools and I have restored them. My wife asked me what I wanted to get for Christmas and I said that I didn't really know but I just happened to see these and my eyes just sort of lit up. I guess it was the little boy in me.  Money for tools has never come to me very easily. It was 15 years after I bought that first set that I began to add to them here and there. After all, money don't come free for nothing except for those who can print it.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

*Patron*, I appreciate your advice. Thanks.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I have some Sorby's - the registered firmer chisels. They can take
a beating but aren't as hard as some other chisels I own and don't
hold a keen edge as long. The chisels you're looking at may be harder
than the registered ones.

I do most of my pounding on the Sorby's or on various plastic-handled
chisels I have. For precision work I usually use Japanese chisels. They
are short so your hands are close to the work, can take a bit of pounding,
take a keen edge.

I've always thought the octagonal-handled Sorby's were elegant looking 
and probably nicely balanced. You won't get one chisel type to do the 
whole range of chopping and paring equally well in all woods.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

Helluvawreck I remember Chris Swarz and his staff made a big beat out on 15-20 cheisel brand
of japanese and western types to so what was best you can find the result and artickel under his blog
there was some western cheisel that hold the edge as good as the japanese cheisel try to look at
that artickle

Dennis


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

You cant get much better. Always a good quality steel.
The 1/8" is a real nuisance. For some reason they can charge as much for it as a 2".
Still it is a necessary chisel for me as well.
I have 2×1/2" and 2×1" in my set as well. I hate stopping half way to sharpen.

Buy Them and enjoy them.

Jamie


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks, *Jamie* and *Dennis*, I certainly have always respected you both for your opinions as well as *Patrons* since I have gotten to know all of you from your posts. 

*Loren*, thanks for your opinion and I will take a look at the Japanese chisels as well.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I'm sort of leaning towards a 4 or 5 pc set of Sorby's and then add another chisel every couple of months until I have the set. It's easier on my budget that ways.


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## docholladay (Jan 9, 2010)

I was in Woodcraft not very long ago and was looking at the Sorby's as well as the Pfeil's. The thing that surprised me about the Sorby's was that it appeared to me that a fair amount of work was going to be required before they would really be sharp. I'm sure the backs are flat, but thy are not polished. Also, the bevel is not polished and would require a bit of honing. The Pfeil's were already polished. For the cost of the Sorby chisels, in my opinion, they should be honed and ready for use right out of the box. I have a set of Marples chisels and the Sorby's did not look any better than the Marples did when they were new. The Marples are a lot less expensive and the ones I have, have served me very well, but it took some work to get them ready for use. Now, all that said, my favorite chisels that I use the most are some antique chisels of various makers that I have found in many varied places. I brought them home and honed and polished them and they just work. Those old tools, just seem to have better steel and I love the feel of those old wooden handlles that have been polished smooth from someone's hands using them.

Doc


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about having a bad mark on eBay  The reason they take Paypal most of the time is eBay requieres them to take it from what I have figured out; another way to nickle and dime everyone, not allowing any other payment form.

Not sure about Sorby, I use mostly old Stanley's I have collected.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

Doc : just a note 2 cherry sell both polished and not polished and from one of the 
stores I know that the polished rekvire a lot more work before the back is flat
becourse the technic they use to polish cheisels etc, make the sides,front and back a little round
and the fore do the store say if you wants polished planeblades or cheisels hten be aware of they
need more work before you can use them and advise people only to buy them if they want polished tool

Dennis


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

I have different old chisels, some beautiful vintage once also, but use most of the time some new bacho (they are really good, and very fair at price), but are not too happy about them most because I'm a vintage kind of guy also, so I'm actually waiting now for a wonderful set of Japanese hand made chisels (7 pcs at app. 400 us $), and cant wait.
It's my feeling that it's a lot about what you use the chisels for, and temperament. If you are on the move you want hard steel that holds the edge the maximum time, and if you are at the workshop doing carpentry, you want some chisels less hard so you can give them a fast strapping and make them razor sharp in a second.
So I think that it's a matter of feeling when you are up in that leauge.
So I look forward to hear about your choice, remember to make a review.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

I looked at your chisels they are really wonderful, so I fully understand why you wished for these for so long.
I think you might find it interesting to read this:
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_bench.htm

And also this:
What you need to know about chisel steel.

Here is a general rundown of the steels commonly found in chisels. Manufacturers generally use High Carbon steel; where different steel like A2 is used, that steel is generally more expensive and will be labeled as such. All these except High Speed Steel burn rather easily when sharpening on a grinder - turn that steel blue from heat, and it loses its temper and must be ground more slowly until the burned, blue steel is ground away.

Today, steels of all types are exceptionally uniform and of high quality, but that wasn't the case a century and more ago, and manufacturers then proudly advertised the special qualities of their steel. As a result, some names like "Crucible" and "Sheffield" dating back as far as the late 1700's are still sometimes currently used.

High Carbon Steel

After the processes were developed and refined during the middle 1800's to reliably produce large quantities of high carbon tool steel inexpensively, such steel became the mainstay of edge tool production that continues today. "Sheffield Steel", "Warranted Cast Steel", modern 01 and other Tool Steels, "Swedish Steel", "Crucible Steel", and others. Many of the chisels made during the late 1800's still serve admirably today; as properly forged and heat treated carbon steel takes an excellent edge while is very easy to resharpen using traditional composite, water or oilstones.

Chrome Vanadium Steel

A modern, shiny tool steel used for mechanic's tools and only occasionally seen in lower grades of chisels. The chromium and vanadium add hardness, toughness and rust resistance, and if properly made, I'm told, they can take a good cutting edge. Unfortunately, the only way I know to determine whether the chisel was properly made is to hone and use it, and of course, by then you've already purchased it. These are more difficult to sharpen than carbon steel, and I'm not sure if it's the steel or the manufacturing process, but in lower tool grades it can be impossible to obtain an "excellent" cutting edge.

High Speed Steel

M2 and other formulations. Chromium, tungsten, molybdenum and vanadium are added to resist softening when the steel is overheated during use or sharpening on a high-speed grinder. Used primarily in drill bits and lathe tools, this steel is expensive, hard, tough, easy and fast to grind, holds its cutting edge longer than carbon steel, but is very difficult to hand hone and doesn't take as fine an edge using typical sharpening stones short of diamond paste on an indexing plate.

A2 Steel

The modern compromise. High carbon steel with chromium and molybdenum added in smaller amounts than some other modern steels, but sufficient to add some toughness, hardness and longer edge life at minimum expense to the quality of the cutting edge and ease of sharpening. I find these harder blades only slightly more difficult to hand hone on traditional stones than carbon steel, and very doable without resorting to the expensive diamond pastes often recommended. I also find A2 blades take a very good edge and hold it as long or slightly longer than my best prewar carbon tools.

Rockwell Hardness

More compromises. The Rockwell index is simply a hardness test of the final, tempered blade. Chisels available today can range from RC 56 (relatively soft) to RC 64 (relatively hard). Softer steel is easier to sharpen but doesn't hold its edge as long as harder steel, which takes longer to sharpen but holds its edge longer. Chisels above the RC 62 range can also be brittle, if not during use then when you accidentally knock one on a concrete floor and find you have a badly chipped edge that must be severely reground, shortening the life of that tool. As a practical matter working at or close to a bench, I find chisels so fast and easy to touch up on the stones, that harder steel with longer edge life isn't necessarily better for me - my preference is the ability to take the sharpest cutting edge I can hone, but hone easily. In my plane irons however, it is real convenient to not have to dismantle, hone, reassemble and adjust any more often than I absolutely have to, and depending on the plane, that preference may take precedence over my very best cutting edge.

Forging - does it make a difference?

I think so, but it can be controversial. One view is that the more the hammer is used in shaping the hot blade as opposed to grinding it, the smaller the crystalline structure of the steel becomes and the better aligned that structure is with the cutting edge, with other benefits in carbon and grain size as well. Older tools and hand-forged tools are better because they have been shaped more by forging than modern tools. The counterargument is that in contrast to the inconsistent-quality steels of the 19th Century, high-quality modern steels benefit most from proper heat treatment, and that poor results come from manufacturer shortcuts taken to cut costs, not lack of forging. The middle ground is that additional forging is more expensive, and a manufacturer going to that expense is more likely to get the rest of it right.

As a practical matter in chisels, the differences are often subtle and subjective, but are certainly there. Almost all my older professional friends in the woodworking trades much prefer the best prewar makes of chisels to new factory chisels, however expensive. Hand forged, best quality steel is the mainstay of legions of knowledgeable Japanese tool woodworkers, and many of today's popular custom tool and knife makers wouldn't still be in business hand-forging edge tools if they didn't have a superior product. 
Found here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?86163-Chisel-Steels

High quality Japanese chisels are between 60-62 rc.

The Bahco chisels I have now are 434 model.

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I have been learning about chisels as i go and have been very happy with some antique ones i got off ebay one at a time. It can bee a crap shoot, but any time I saw some that looked promising I'd buy them. Usually they'd go cheap if the handles were in poor condition from years of storage. I'd turn new handles and have a high grade chisel for cheap!

I have some cheaper ones too that I like for pounding. But my favorite set is not expensive at all. It's the stubby chisel set at woodcraft made by Wood River. They's great for paring because of the short rounded wood handles and the four piece set cost about $35!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

hey, Helluvawreck!
Aside from the Sorby question, if you spend a few minutes in eBay/communities/feedback you will quickly learn one thing once you get past the obnoxious people there: Cardinal Rule#1 Get yourself *TWO* eBay registered IDs…one for selling, one for buying!! If you have problems as a buyer, due to badly performing sellers slapping a neg on you, no problem! The next purchase you make, the seller cannot refuse to do business with you even if your feedback is terrible! Do not let your bad purchasing experiences from angry sellers affect your totally different reputation as a seller. *Your seller ID* must be protected by your integrity and forthright honest dealings. *Your buyer ID* is of no consequence to anybody. Your single Paypal account will work in either account.
Oh, and I do have the largest R. Sorby lathe gouge they make, bought it 20 years ago, it is one awesome tool and I still use it.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I agree with Doc on the high-polish chisels question. High polish strikes
me as an attempt to sell to women buying gifts for men. A tool
doesn't need polish usually, it needs the correct geometry to do its
job.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

*Doc*, I really do appreciate your advice. I have some Pfeil carving tools and I like them a lot and I also did notice the price was substantially less than Sorby. So thanks for the advice.

*Mads*, I haven't had a lecture about steel like that since I was in Mechanical Engineering at Georgia Tech. Thanks for the super post. I sure take it into consideration.

*Jim*, I appreciate your comments as well. I don't know why I quit trading on Ebay. I still have my account. I guess it was sort of habit forming and I thought that I would get out of it for a while so I did. I haven't bought anything there for a couple of years. Right now I have all kinds of chisels on my watch list. I really ought to start back. I once bought a lot of good tools there. I need to rethink on it. Thanks.

*Poopie * , I also appreciate your advice. It sounds very reasonable and might be a good idea. Actually I was more of a buyer than a seller. I bought tons of stuff for our plant. They were mostly, electrical controls, air cylinders, motors, and power transmission stuff. I bought over a 100 tools on Ebay and was quite satisfied with every one of them. I really need to get back into it.

Thanks, *Loren*. Actually, I like the handles on those Sorbys. I never have looked at them in person. I try to get to Woodcraft at least once a year but I really have a hard time going anywhere because of all the time constraints that are on me. I guess that's why I use to trade on Ebay so much.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks, everybody. This has been a very profitable post for me and I really do appreciate all of the responses by you wonderful fellas. It has helped my thinking a lot. I'm sort of leaning towards the older stuff which is the way that I have bought most of my tools. Maybe I'll do a mixture. I'll think on these things.


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