# Hammer K3 Winner Review



## dnick

Congratulations. If I spent that kind of money, I'd expect perfection. Never gonna happen for me.


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## oldnovice

Being from that part of the world … a long time ago … I am always amazed at the amount of engineering and precision the Austrians put into their products. Similar to the Swiss Elu products, Freud from Italy, and other well engineered European products. Unfortunately I don't own any European made products … a little too costly!

I have watched the Hammer videos on many and, apparently the look on my face, made my wife think *I was watching porn*. Boy, was she surprised …!


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## lj61673

Great review and very detailed. This model slider is fast becoming an alternate tablesaw for those not enamored with the SawStop option.
I have yet to read a negative comment on this saw. Great choice.


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## Howardh

I have always thought it a bit odd that no U.S. manufacturers have come up with a true slider of their own. Jet has that sliding table option but it's pretty short and sits a foot away from the blade. I suppose the price point would scare a lot of consumers off but then again, SS is selling a lot of their $3000-$4000 units. They make so much sense. Maybe that's the reason! I look at this type of purchase as a lifetime investment. I should never have to replace it. I'm not into boats, motorcycles or RV's so this is my big ticket hobby. All those other things have to be replaced from time to time but a quality woodworking machine should last for as long as I need it.


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## Domer

I have heard great things about that saw. But my one question is, how do you get it serviced if there is ever a problem. Are there service centers around the country?

Domer


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## Howardh

The have one on both coasts. I have heard they have guys that will travel to your location if it's something serious. Otherwise, if something breaks, they can walk you through the process. They forgot to install the fence micro adjust on mine so they sent me the parts and then included a great tuturial on how it's installed. It took me about an hour.


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## JGM0658

I wish you luck with Felder service. I have a Hammer A3 31 jointer/planer and a 24" Bandsaw, service on both sucked to the point that I am going with Minimax for my slider. They both arrived broken, took 3 months and legal threats to have them fixed, in short from the manager down the CS sucked.

PS, Hammer is made in China, not Austria, only the Felder line is made in Austria.


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## Bertha

Oh man, Howard. You didn't just compare SawStop to a Hammer slider did you? Lol. You're a lucky man to own this saw, but ownership has a price. If I wasn't a vintage junkie, the Hammer is where I'd be looking. Like old novice, I've been salivating over them for a while now. I signed up for their e-mail alerts about a year ago and unlike some other companies with which you've had experience, the sales pressure was very low. They know you want it; no sense in pestering you about it, lol. I'm taking detailed notes of your experience. Thanks!


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## Howardh

Hmm. The Hammer line is definetly made in Austria, not China. I know that for a fact. See this link. http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/products/jointer%E2%80%93planers.html Some folks have had bad service in the past but I haven't so far and I have read from many others that they raved about the service too! I'm sorry yours didn't work out. It seems to be the exception.


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## JGM0658

The link says the felder machines are made in Austria. The only guy that would help me when my machines was down said he checked the crating when the machines came into the warehouse and it said made in China. You do know that hammer is the Felder "cheap" line. Anyhow, I am glad you are happy with your machine and it works as advertised, far as I am concerned I am not touching Felder again with a 10 foot pole. Mini Max seems to always have good CS reviews and I can't see their machines being any worse or lower quality than Felder.


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## Bertha

Man, if I bought a Felder and wasn't happy…well, I wouldn't be happy. I know that Hammer is the Grizzly of Felder but this is the first bad thing I've heard, JGM. I've always loved minimax but I'm usually looking at their planers; don't know a whole lot about their TS. I will by tomorrow though! 
Edit: Dan (from handplanes) has a minimax combo and the surface coming off of that thing is incredible.


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## Viktor

There was an interesting thread about where Hammer is manufactured: 
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/archive/index.php/t-21650.html?s=b74bfa03943471e7f57d89490df6cc0e

The verdict:
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I want to clear up a couple of things that have been put forward at the FOG lately about where HAMMER machines are being produced.
Since the introduction of HAMMER in 1997 several competitors alleged that HAMMER machines are build in the Czech Republic, Bulgarian and lately also in China. 
It is true that not all components are produced at our factory. For example we had to close down our foundry in 2000 because it was too small for the volume we needed and we did not have any space left to expand. However more than 95% of the components of the HAMMER range are being produced and assembled at our factory in Hall in Tyrol, Austria. And most importantly, all machines have to pass through our quality control. I have posted some picture in the Photos section that show the assembly of the HAMMER machines at our factory in Austria. 
We also reserve the right to outsource HAMMER components globally in order to offer the best value possible. This was the case with the limited edition models SP3. We have outsourced several components to a well respected supplier in China. However the finals assembly and the production of the most critical components (fences, electrics, gear drives, knife system, …) was done at our factory in Austria. The outsourcing of these components allowed us to offer the SP3 at a greatly reduced price. The limited edition model SP3 was based on the construction of the A3-31 with some changes and new additions. Also we were testing the market with the new HAMMER colors. 
Since then we have introduced the new HAMMER range in the new colors and other new technical features like a new sliding table, new fences and improved saw and shaper units. Due to the success of the SP3 we continue to use several outsourced components on the new A3-31. This allows us to offer the A3-31 at a bargain price. The rest of the HAMMER line continues to be manufactured entirely in Austria.
If any customer still has doubts about the HAMMER range being produced besides the FELDER and Format-4 machine at our factory in Hall in Tyrol we would like to welcome him/her to see our factory with his/her own eyes.

Best Regards
Wolfgang Geiger
Product Manager, FELDER Group
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But that was in 2005


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## JGM0658

Mini Max was the first one to come out with a single move of the two sheets for their jointer/planer in fact Felder just copied or made a similar design for their A3.

My issue with Felder/hammer was the CS, the machines, once they work are great. But it is like the Damocles sword, I am dreading the day something goes wrong and I have to call these guys to fix it. I try to keep up with the maintenance schedule by myself but you know how it is, sooner or later I will need them and I feel it is going to be a battle once again.

Anyhow, I am sure the K3 is a fine machine, and if Howard is happy with it, then that is all that matters.


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## JGM0658

Thanks for the post Viktor, I take the letter with a grain of salt because it looks like what Chrysler does here in Mexico. I own a Jeep Liberty, everything is made in Mexico, all the parts are shipped back to the US and assembled there, and the Jeep has the tag Made in the USA…..uh huh….


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## Howardh

I checked with Felder and they confirmed all their product lines - Hammer, Felder and Format 4 are made and assembled at their factory in Austria. Nothing Chinese about them. They had no idea where someone would get the idea that the crates say made in China. Maybe it was a cheap knock off. That's been known to happen. The real ones all come from Austria.


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## Domer

All of this sounds good but the question still stands on repair.

Howard, you said that Hammer will come to you if it is major. Is the trip at Hammer's expense on yours? If it is the owner's expense, wouldn't that cost nearly as much as a new saw?

You also said that there is a maintenance schedule for the Hammer. Is that monthly, quarterly, or annually?

I don't remember doing any maintenance on any saw I have owned except to clean it out pretty often. Is there a maintenance program I should be doing on my SawStop?

Domer


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## Howardh

No, I don't think anything was said about a maintenance schedule. That was one of the things I liked about it. It's virtually maintenance free. Just keep it clean. They don't have a lubrication schedule either that I know of. I don't think there can be since you don't want any oil exposed to saw dust. I'll have to ask. They have been using the factory direct distribution for years so I would imagine if there were frequent repair issues, they would have had to do something about it. There really isn't that much that can go wrong. They sell a lot of big machines, the 700 and 900 Felder series and the Format 4 industrial brand to businesses that use them all day, every day in cities without repair facilities so they must be pretty reliable. I never asked the question about who's expense it would be but if something goes wrong under warranty, I'm not paying for it! Isn't this the same problem with Grizzly? How do they handle service issues?


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## JGM0658

They had no idea where someone would get the idea that the crates say made in China.

Their sales person here in Mexico. In fact when I got my A3 31, they sent to me 2 replacements, both were in sorry shape. One, the technician could not adjust the blades to go low enough to the zero setting, the other had a bump on the outfeed table. It really smacked as Chinese quality, unless the Felder distributor here is a fake.

Like I said, you are happy with your saw and that is all that counts, but there is another side of the coin to Felder/Hammer which I am posting. In my case the machine is adequate, but given the price I paid for it and the awful CS I would rate it as 2 stars.


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## Howardh

fair enough. Being in Mexico shouldn't matter but it does smack of something being amiss. I was told every machine that arrives in the US is uncrated, checked, adjusted if necessary and then re-crated for shipping to the customer. Maybe not the case south of the border. If that's the case, Felder should be informed about it.


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## JGM0658

Felder should be informed about it.

I did inform them, wrote a long e mail revisiting all the problems, uncrated, broken, full of dust, untrained technicians, the one that was supposedly trained I had to throw out of the building because he kept arguing with me, I specifically asked them (and paid) for 220V plugs and cord, when they show up here 10 hours late no cord, when the machines are unloaded, jury rigged to run, the guy tells me, "well it works, we are leaving." I said, "really? I don't think so, you will stay here until I make sure the jointer and planer can make a square board" The guy spent 3 hours setting the machine to run properly. Imagine if it had been me doing it? Even so, the fence never worked fine till this day. The band saw arrived with the lever to tilt the bed broken and the rod to raise and lower the guides crooked, they never fixed this, I had to have a machinist make a new lever and to this day every time I raise or lower the guide I have to re adjust the guides.

Then get this, I talked to the manager and tell him all the problems, he said "well, the technician does not want to go back to your site because you threw him out the first time".....So I tell him, "really? so the tail wags the dog at your company?" If one of my employees tells me that he is fired that exact moment.

Anyhow, I am relating all of this so that you understand I am not making all this up, that really the quality and service from Felder (at least in Mexico) is the worst I have ever encountered even for a country known for not having great CS.

I am glad your saw works fine, enjoy it, and keep your fingers crossed that if you ever need them, Felder will give you a better CS than they did to me.


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## Viktor

JGM0658, but Felder product manager (see my post) specifically mentioned A3 31 as being outsourced (China) and the rest of the line made in Austria. So it all seem to add up.


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## thedude50

I have been holding out for the new powermatic but this looks really good Al buy this for me for my birthday


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## JGM0658

So it all seem to add up.

With the exception that no where in their advertisement, web site, sales pitch you are told that. I was initially going for the Felder J/P but the sales guy talked me into the Hammer. And he never mentioned the outsourcing/made in china deal when I specifically asked him if Hammer was also made in Austria, given that while it was cheaper than Felder, it was by no means "cheap" (I told this to the manager and his answer was that the guy was new at that position and did not know much) I would not trust Felder as far as I can throw them.

Bottom line, seems they are better in the US, as I said, enjoy your saw, if it worked right out of the crate you will most likely get to enjoy it for years trouble free.


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## CyberDyneSystems

It looks like a great saw.
Cutting panels is about 30% of what we use the table saw for, so I'd LOVE a good slider.
The options available to add on to a saw all look pretty lame,. this looks like one of the best designs I've seen.

I would love to see more of the slider in action,. and wish we could add a similar option to the SS ICS.


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## Howardh

Ok. To finally set the record straight, the president of FelderUSA is calling me tomorrow to discuss exactly what is the situation regarding origin of manufacture. I'll post a summary of that discussion after the call.


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## cstrang

I was thinking about buying a Hammer jointer/planer combo and i instead bought a Delta planer and Delta jointer and I regret that decision, not because im dissatisfied with my 2 deltas but I think I would love a hammer a lot more. After I started buying Festool i realized more that you get what you pay for and it seems like more and more that you can beat the quality of the Europeans.


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## Howardh

Bingo. Came to the same conclusion a few years ago. Now, all my power hand tools are Festool. Yea, they were expensive, but I just would have spent it on something else (or the LOML would have). Got tired of spending money twice on tools that didn't perform over the long haul. Can't think of single Festool tool I would trade for something else. I will feel the same way about my Hammer purchases. It's a lifetime investment. Hopefully a long lifetime…


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## JGM0658

cstrang, don't be too disappointed. J/P combos have their drawbacks, if you have to do just one piece it is a PITA to joint then open the leaves and turn the handle for the bed to go up and then plane. Sure, when you are doing a batch work it is great, but many time I wish I still had my workbench planer. I tell you what, my delta 6" jointer still sees a lot of use for the small jobs.

As for bang for the buck, Mini max, the REAL Felder line, yeah. Hammer I still don't think you get what you paid for and/or real quality. Then again, maybe it was just my bad luck.


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## roman

Thats a great tool but there is one very difficult concept to get your mind past.

It's a Euro saw, not a "North American" saw. The methodology is somewhat different in that the fence (miter fence) is held in front of the wood/plywood instead of behind the material to be cut. It gives you way more distance and its super accurate and super safe.

Heres a link to better explain and it will show you how the fence is in front of what gets cut.






As for maintenance. I wouldn't be afraid to have a techy come and professionally calibrate your saw, its worth every dime and if you watch him/her, you will learn some really cool tricks. Thats said, I owned/own an Altendorf and after 22 years of solid work, it finally needed to have the arbor bearings replaced……..its a no brainer on the maintenance end

Your gonna love the difference and congrats on the saw.


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## roman

you should after every use/day….clean the sliding bed, both upper and lower. Pitch/dust tends to build up on them. Bostick makes 3 spray lubricants, one for wood on wood, one for wood on steel, and one for steel on steel. They dont build up, are dry lubs and make the slider effortless.


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## roman

There are some good video tutorials on sliding Table Saws, I have an older version of the above.


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## Bertha

I don't know which to be more impressed by: JGM using Damocles sword in casual conversation or Moron owning an Altendorf, lol


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## roman

Thanks Bertha ?


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## Bertha

(?) No, that was definitely a compliment


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## JGM0658

I vote for Moron, reading a book is easy, getting the mula to get an Altendorf is tough…


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## CyberDyneSystems

OMG, that Altendorf is amazing. I had no idea how the blade sizes/riving knife adjustment worked. Switching fro what looks like a 12" or 14" blade, to an 8" with scoring blade. 
And did that fence really move by itself? Nice.

Suddenly my Unisaw and SS look positively primitive.


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## roman

Mine will take an 18" diameter ripping blade. Very intimidating for sure.


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## JGM0658

hmmmm…I guess there was no call from the Felder guy, why am I not surprised. ;-)


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## roman

Felder makes very nice tools, no doubt about it.


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## Howardh

I caught up with the President of Felder USA today. A very pleasant fellow and avid golfer. He was gracious enough to spend about 30 minutes with me on a variety of subjects. He has been with them in this capacity for a couple of years and it sounds like Felder is very appreciative of the N. A. market. *Specifically, all machines manufactured by Felder, and that includes Hammer and Format 4, are assembled in Austria.* Almost all of the critical parts are also made in-house such as bearings, arbors, etrc. Being we are in a global economy, he couldn't say that some parts are sources from other parts of the world. For example, there are certain electrical parts they buy from a German company but they have no way of knowing if that company gets some of their parts in Asia. The bottom line is this: You can feel comfortable knowing when you buy a machine from them, it is overwhelmingly sourced from Austria and 100% assembled in their factory there.


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## Johnwi

I'm new to the forum but have been looking at this saw and the Mini Max SC3W quite a bit. Still not sure on which one to buy. I was find of leaning towards the Hammer. I can't contact the original poster of this review because I don't have 5 posts yet but if you could contact me I would really appreciate it.
Thank you,
John


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## roman

Ive not seen the hammer yet so cant comment nor review but I have seen the minimax and will comment.

SCM makes a good product with a relatively long life span before serious maintenance is required. The maintenance, albeit financially painful is actually quite a relief when you consider the original purchase price (ouch) and you have a brand new machine for 2%, go 5% : )). They make a lot of them yet it is rare to find one second hand, even when you do, there is some ass at an auction who pays more then buying a new one ?

My fav part SCM Mini Max, is that they actually have "teckies" where some of which know their equipment, and the BS stops at the gate. Service delivered to the machine to keep it perfectly calibrated. In the world of high tecky tools,………………..down time sucks big time and the bigger the investment the more choices narrow.

If you are a week end warrior with a week end job as a woodworker, but your real job is a radiologist its an easier decision.


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## bart17

I'm seriously considering a Felder K3 to replace my Inca 2100. 
My one concern is quality of cut. With a sharp Forrest WoodworkerII, the Inca gives a crosscut that looks like a slide from a biology class. Is the cut from a Felder also super smooth? 
It's my one concern about changing saws and I will appreciate any information you might offer.
Thank you for your attention.
Bart


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## Howardh

Update! so now it's been a couple of years since my review and a common question is whether or not I would do it again. That's easy. Yes! I still love it today as much as when I got it. No service issues have come up and it works like a champ. I bit the bullet and purchased the Felder dado unit. Haven't used it all that much but it cuts smooth as glass. Speaking of smooth cuts, the last poster asked about the quality of the cut. I have two Felder 12" blades and a Forrest WWII 10" thin kerf. All of them cut extremely smooth, comparable to my Festool TS 55. The Forrest blade stops very quickly since it it doesn't have the mass of the Felder blades. There are times I wish I had chosen the 78" slider over the 48" but I still don't have the room for the longer slider so all is good. It's fun to show it off to our guests as no one has ever heard of them but everyone is impressed by it's quality appearance and the slider. I'm thinking about a new bandsaw for this year and the Hammer will be at the top of the list for consideration.


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## madnut

late to the comments but I would love to come by and check out the Hammer. I'm in the DFW area as well… I've been thinking about the K3 or the Grizzly G0623x.


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## noone

@Howardh - What is the crosscut capacity on this slider? How would one go about cross cutting a 78" wide panel for built in sides? Could a 78" long panel be supported by the Hammer K3 Winner? My budget is 4K - and I would need dado capability. Am I anywhere in the ballpark here? I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on a shiny new Delta Unisaw and someone mentioned the word slider again so now i'm stuck!


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## Howardh

Mine has a 49" capacity so it's just big enough to crosscut a 4×8 sheet of ply. However, they make much longer sliders, up to 126" long. Mine had the dado prep included. I bought a Hammer dado set - they call it a grooving tool I think - and it works well. I imagine you can go to Freud or whoever and get them to drill out a set to fit the 30 mm arbor with the two 5mm pins. When you the Winner, you get the outrigger table which would make it very easy for a one man shop to handle 4×8 sheets of ply. I opted not to do that since I don't do any full size sheet goods work. There are some accessories that wouldn't work on a slider but for the most part, you don't need them. Miter sleds, etc. I like that you can run a 12" blade but most of the time I use a Forrest WWII thin kerf and with 4hp, it slices right through 8/4 lumber with ease. I believe $4K is doable. They run sales all the time.


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## Tycoch

I just bought a micro-adjuster for my K3 winner but cannot work out how to install it. Can ayone help


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## Tycoch

I just bought a micro-adjuster for my K3 winner but cannot work out how to install it. Can ayone help


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## rock_run_bushcraft

So to freshen up this thread, I recently also purchased a Hammer table saw. She's a beast with a huge engine, over 4hp and pushes a 12 inch blade. This is an incredible machine, I waited till they had their 40th anniversary sales and the price for what I got, just was not as bad as people are making out.


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## McKinlay005

The original up to date variation of the SuperSU app. https://browsys.com the application will be Install on your Android device.


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## DmitriyV

@Howardh - Felder currently sells the Hammer K3 as 48×48, 31×31, and 31×48 (shorter table). Did you have to do something special to get them to configure it as 48×31 (longer table)? The sales rep I am talking do said they don't do that!


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## copythat

> So to freshen up this thread, I recently also purchased a Hammer table saw. She s a beast with a huge engine, over 4hp and pushes a 12 inch blade. This is an incredible machine, I waited till they had their 40th anniversary sales and the price for what I got, just was not as bad as people are making out.
> 
> - Garret D., Rock Run


Do you still like your Hammer? Have you had any issues and how is customer service? Also, how high does the slider sit above the case iron table and does it cause issue for ripping with the fence?


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## Ren09

Hi Howard, I plan to buy Hammer K3 as well FYI I'm not a professional woodworker maybe you can call it serious hobbyists. As I speak with their sales guy he does not recommend me to take that HK3 as he mentioned the motor is easily getting hot and it's not to be used 24/7 and they offered me Felder K700S with 35%ish discounted because it was a display unit. Well, in my case I wouldn't use that often maybe 2-4 hours a day 3 times a week. Another issue is the electrical as it offered 5,5Kw and my workshop is not ready for that and It will cost me extra money(for longer period) and time if I buy that machine. My question is based on your experience using that K3 is it true that the machine prone to heat for daily used or it's just their marketing strategy to sell that display unit as in my country that machine is not popular for hobbyist due to its luxury price? However, it's still offer a good price and don't wanna lose that chance by being grabbed someone else.

My situation is either buying that Felder K700s and spent extra money and effort to prepare the electricity or grab Hammer K3 and add some accessories to match Sliding stroke of the K700s which eventually will have no much different in initial cost. I hope you guys understand what I'm saying.

Sorry for the english as it's not my first language.


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