# I need help on safe table saw ripping



## CTW (Oct 24, 2014)

I am using a cabinet SawStop and yesterday I tried ripping a longer board for the first time. It was approximately 51"-52" long and as I am 5'4" the board was nearly as long as I am tall. I needed to rip two pieces off the board that were approximately 3" wide. I brought the fence over to the right distance and placed a magswitch feather board just to side a short distance back from the blade. The featherboard is the small one, about 7×4". I stood a little to the left so I could reach the power paddle with my knee and I used my left hand to hold the board against the fence and fed the board with my right hand (followed by a push stick). A few inches in into the first cut I noticed that the board was tipping up off the table at the blade. This was before reaching the anti-kickback pawls. I quickly lifted the board with my right hand and made sure it was level on the table. I felt like I was extremely lucky that nothing happened. So when I started the second cut I tried to make sure I did it right, but sure enough I saw the board come up again - just not quite so high and this was when I was very aware and trying not to let this happen.

So before I try this again I need some guidance. 
- Could this be a depth perception issue? (I don't have great depth perception, but I can still parallel park).
- Are there safe hold-downs I could put on my fence to keep me from raising the board?
- Is this simply bad beginners luck and I will somehow learn what to do before I have a wreck?
- Could the featherboard have too tight against the board?

Hopefully somebody can help me figure this out.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Put a featherboard on your fence to keep it from lifting.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Roller stands also help keep things level when using long stock.. both on the infeed and outfeed sides.


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## CTW (Oct 24, 2014)

Thank you Brad. After I posted I found the vertical featherboard by magswitch and I think it may be worth it to purchase. The alternative is not pleasant.


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## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

Is it possible the lumber wasn't totally flat?

If there was a bow in it and you were feeding it with the bow side on the bottom, then the board will end up rocking. This may be why the board was coming up on you.

Obviously, this is not something you want.


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## CTW (Oct 24, 2014)

I believe it was flat, but I didn't specifically check. Now I will be more aware. Thanks.


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## Minorhero (Apr 8, 2011)

Don't feel bad, this is a pretty common problem. When dealing with a lot of board sticking out in front of the blade its is easy to get it starting to ride up. Before the section your hand is on gets to the table you should forgo the push stick to use both hands. Make sure one hand is holding the board steady and the other is holding it down to the table so it doesn't ride up. Once the part of the board you are holding reaches the table, switch to the push stick if the board is narrow enough to need it. That's going to be if there is less room between the blade and the fence then your hand spread wide.

I would say that you are standing on the wrong side of the board. It sounds like you are standing where the off cuts are going. You should be on the side of the fence that doesn't have wood next to it. If you can move your on/off switch over then great. If not, its more important not to be in line of wood that is next to a moving blade.


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## albachippie (Feb 2, 2010)

I pic of your setup would be helpful. Does sound like a twisted board to me though. As you cut sawn timber, or any timber for that matter, the grains you are cutting through change the dynamic of the board, sometimes quite dramatically. It does help to flatten the board first so you know it is flat against the table top.

Sounds like you did everything correctly and safely. Sometimes just being aware of what the timber is doing and compensating for it is all you can do. If it wants to move it will, no matter what we do. I believe in featherboards and safety devices, but, if you have a feather board that is already tight, and the timber wants to spring up, it means you are having to push harder towards the blade because of the extra friction created by the springing timber.

Personally, I set the fence so that the end is in line with the first tooth of the blade when cutting sawn timber. This allows the timber to spring away from the blade un hindered. If it wants to close in on the blade, a little wedge at the opening of the cut helps to ease the cut. I don't use feather boards at work but I do have a very large and sturdy overhead extractor hood which will stop anything that wants to jump up. I do however ALWAYS have the riving knife installed.










Hope this helps,

Garry


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## albachippie (Feb 2, 2010)

> I would say that you are standing on the wrong side of the board. It sounds like you are standing where the off cuts are going. You should be on the side of the fence that doesn t have wood next to it. If you can move your on/off switch over then great. If not, its more important not to be in line of wood that is next to a moving blade.
> 
> - Minorhero


Really?? I may be missunderstanding you here, but, I would have thought, and was taught, and teach others, to stand so you can keep steady pressure on the timber you are feeding into the saw, ie directly in line of the blade. Once you have got passed the riving knife and are at a comfortable stage, you need to keep the timber moving, whilst keeping slight pressure against the fence. How can this be done from the other side of the fence?

I am open to correction here,

Garry


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

One of the primary reasons to get a jointer is to flatten a reference face of a board, then straighten and square an adjacent edge. Every step forward from there will reference off those surfaces. The flat face goes against the saw table, the flat edge goes against the fence. That should make the outcome predictable. Without those two reference points, the results are random depending on any deviations in the board.

Always make sure your blade is sharp and appropriate for the task. Make sure the saw alignment is spot on….fence parallel with blade, riving knife parallel with blade and aligned with the blade, fence is straight, etc. Press downward and toward the fence when feeding the board. I prefer a push shoe over a push stick….or a Gripper. You're already using a featherboard to hold the piece against the fence, but you can also use one to hold the board down to the table.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

The vertical feather board and/or infeed side roller stand sound like the ticket…


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## Bmezz (Aug 12, 2014)

> Don t feel bad, this is a pretty common problem. When dealing with a lot of board sticking out in front of the blade its is easy to get it starting to ride up. Before the section your hand is on gets to the table you should forgo the push stick to use both hands. Make sure one hand is holding the board steady and the other is holding it down to the table so it doesn t ride up. Once the part of the board you are holding reaches the table, switch to the push stick if the board is narrow enough to need it. That s going to be if there is less room between the blade and the fence then your hand spread wide.
> 
> I would say that you are standing on the wrong side of the board. It sounds like you are standing where the off cuts are going. You should be on the side of the fence that doesn t have wood next to it. If you can move your on/off switch over then great. If not, its more important not to be in line of wood that is next to a moving blade.
> With respect, that sounds like dangerous advise to me. How do you control the board from the off side of the fence? Anyhow, sometimes if the blade isn't raised high enough the board will try to climb it. Long rips are inherently dangerous at the beginning and end of the cut. Roller stands, feather boards etc. all help but the most important tool is the one between your ears. All of your senses will inform you of what's going on.
> ...


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## albachippie (Feb 2, 2010)

> With respect, that sounds like dangerous advise to me. How do you control the board from the off side of the fence? Anyhow, sometimes if the blade isn t raised high enough the board will try to climb it. Long rips are inherently dangerous at the beginning and end of the cut. Roller stands, feather boards etc. all help but the most important tool is the one between your ears. All of your senses will inform you of what s going on.
> 
> - Bmezz


I agree


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## Bill7255 (Feb 23, 2012)

Not sure I am following the above on where to stand. I stand just to the left of the blade, so I am not inline with the board against the fence. If a kickback would occur it would be the piece between the fence and blade. This sounds like where you stood. Feather boards are good, there is also "board buddies" that work well. Not sure what blade you were using, but ripping blades work better than combination. I would also check the blade and fence alignment. I have my blade .001 towards the miter slot away from the fence at the back of the blade and my fence .001 away from the slot at the rear. What you don't want is the blade towards the fence to pinch the wood against the fence and blade at the back.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Wood will climb the blade depending on hook angle, number of teeth, sharpness, blade height, feed rate etc. You can lift the back end of the board slightly to force the part being cut down until you get well into the cut. It's a good idea to make sure you have a bit of waste at the beginning and end of your cut. You can simply clamp a piece of wood onto your fence to act as a hold down, don't need to go out and buy specialized tools to do that.


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## Bill7255 (Feb 23, 2012)

> You can simply clamp a piece of wood onto your fence to act as a hold down, don t need to go out and buy specialized tools to do that.
> 
> - dhazelton


That's a darn good idea. Wish I had thought of it, and will use that tip. Thanks


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> You can simply clamp a piece of wood onto your fence to act as a hold down, don t need to go out and buy specialized tools to do that.
> 
> - dhazelton


I'm sure that'd be a help in a pinch, but it behaves a little differently than a featherboard that gives a little once adjusted. I'd think that by the time the top board is close enough to have much downward holding effect, it'd also be creating some extra resistance.


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## Mykos (Jun 27, 2013)

It really sounds to me like an infeed support (either table or rollers) would help out here.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

> Thank you Brad. After I posted I found the vertical featherboard by magswitch and I think it may be worth it to purchase. The alternative is not pleasant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have that thing, and I really like it for exactly this reason. (But as everyone else opined, do make sure your stock is flat.)

Edit: certainly you can clamp scrap to your fence as a hold down. It's just a question of convenience; if you already want/have a mag-switch featherboard (or a different featherboard that can accommodate the vertical hold-down), it's a fast and easy solution.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

> I m sure that d be a help in a pinch, but it behaves a little differently than a featherboard that gives a little once adjusted. I d think that by the time the top board is close enough to have much downward holding effect, it d also be creating some extra resistance.
> 
> - knotscott


I've also found that non-feathering/rolling stock hold-downs tend to wiggle/shift out of position as stock feeds through, just enough that they aren't firmly holding anything by the end of the cut.


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## jakep_82 (Feb 1, 2012)

If you want to be truly safe while making a cut like this, you shouldn't use a table saw. It's much safer to rip the board with a bandsaw, and only use the table saw to clean up the edge. The amount of internal stress in a piece of solid lumber can be surprising, and kickbacks are no fun.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Use a push stick and stand to the left (my knee on the stop), or use the microjig grippr. Have two of them and can walk cuts through the blade hand over hand and keeps positive pressure on both sides of the blade and stops any kickback.

Never stand directly behind the blade infeed point just in case


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

I would use a RIP blade with a wider SET in teeth, perhaps you are using a combination blade ?
I find I get a LIFT effect when I am using panel blades with very little SET. (smoother cut)
Also you might want to lift your blade a bit when cutting.
Outfeed table or rollers are always helpful.


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## CTW (Oct 24, 2014)

Everybody has given me a lot to think about. I did not consider jointing the wood first as I was using dimensional lumber, I thought it was flat enough. I don't have a jointer, but I do have some hand planes and I have flattened a couple of boards that way and then run them through the planer for the other side.

I am building rolling storage carts for my husband's shop and I'm thinking that if I flattened the long boards, I would have to do them all. I did recheck the scraps and cut pieces today from the board I ripped and they appeared level to me, no cups, etc.

I do believe I was standing correctly, I just think I didn't describe it well enough. However, I am have real doubts about how I fed the boards. I think it was such a reach for me that I was compensating by pushing down on the back and lifting the front, but I am not sure. If that is the case, I think that a feather board coming down from the top should be enough to keep that from happening. However, I am going to go through all the posts again tomorrow to make sure I understand all the suggestions.

Thanks, CTW


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

*I did not consider jointing the wood first as I was using dimensional lumber, I thought it was flat enough.*

Jointing first is nice, but not absolutely required. People rip dimensional lumber obtained from the borg all day long just like it came from the store. And you will never see a jointer at a construction site, yet they rip stock that has been sitting out in the weather for weeks and are bowed and twisted to some degree without problems. Once you get used to properly feeding into the machine, the problems you are experiencing will become less of an issue. Until then, featherboards and infeed/outfeed support will be your friend.

Cheers,
Brad


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

If you had to joint or plane every board you had to rip you would NEVER get anything done. Plus you would have to process every board that didn't need it just because you want to keep your pieces all the same size on a project. Hold a board up and sight down the length of it from the end to look for bowing, twists and cupping. Don't try to rip any board that doesn't meet a reasonable definition of straight. This is your first attempt at ripping a board - it can be scary but will get easier with good technique. Yes, if you held the end of the board lower than the table the board will try to climb. If you don't have good outfeed support or don't wish to get your hand near the blade run the board half the length through and shut off the saw keeping the board in place until the blade stops. Then flip the board end over end and do it again. I've done that on jobsites where you have to rip something long and don't have an outfeed roller or second person to help pull it through.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

I tend to rip long stock on my bandsaw, then dimension with the planer. To me, there are short boards and long board that just aren't woth it on the table saw when the BS is much safer.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

> ...However, I am have real doubts about how I fed the boards. I think it was such a reach for me that I was compensating by pushing down on the back and lifting the front, but I am not sure. If that is the case, I think that a feather board coming down from the top should be enough to keep that from happening….


Additional support on the infeed side would be a great help, not just a feather board pushing down. For a board the length you are ripping, good outfeed support would help also.


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## verdesardog (Apr 2, 2011)

need a sharper blade?


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## RJH30518 (Feb 22, 2015)

No one asked how high you have the blade … if it is too low, it can have a tendency to raise the board as it cuts … the "normal" height is one tooth above the board.

It is a common problem-and you also didn't mention which type of wood-hard or soft. A harder wood will have more lift as the blade cuts, since it is harder to get the teeth through the wood.

Since you are using a saw stop, raise the blade a little, and see if the wood stays on the table. But, in general, don't worry about it … it is just what happens.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

The blade may be set too low. There is more tendency for the wood to "ride" up on the blade than when the blade is higher. Then the cutting force is directed more downward than straight back.


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## BlazerGator (Feb 22, 2015)

> This is your first attempt at ripping a board - it can be scary but will get easier with good technique.
> - dhazelton


Quite true. Another benefit of additional support for long boards is it allows you to worry less about the north or south 40 and focus your attention on what's happening at the business end.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

What blade are you using? If it is a blade intended for use on a SCMS or RAS, the negative rake will "lift" the wood.


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## CTW (Oct 24, 2014)

I am using the blade that came with the saw - which is nearly new. I am assuming it is a combination blade. I have been trying to learn so many things that table saw blades have been on the back burner. I spent all day yesterday trying to clean and understand the drill press I received from my father-in-law's estate. I need it now for drilling precisely for dowels and it was the one thing that did not have a manual and like 95% of my tools I had 0% familiararty with it. After I set up a tool it takes quite a bit of rumination before I get the nerve to try it. That is because nobody is here that can check things and advise and it's all the things I don't know that worry me. So the guidance I receive here is very valuable.


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## Pimzedd (Jan 22, 2007)

I agree with those who saw check the blade. You say it is nearly new so that is probably not the problem. However, a dull blade can definitely cause that.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> I am using the blade that came with the saw - which is nearly new. I am assuming it is a combination blade. I have been trying to learn so many things that table saw blades have been on the back burner. ...
> 
> - CTW


Unless you have a premium Titanium Saw Stop blade, you should upgrade it. Most stock blades just aren't worthy of the saw they're on. You'll optimize your saw's potential by getting a better blade ...it's money wisely spent IMHO. Otherwise it's like putting lousy tires on an expensive performance car.


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## CTW (Oct 24, 2014)

Here are the spec's for the blade per Woodcraft:

Blade: 40-tooth, professional grade, 5/8" arbor 
Blade diameter: 10" 
Blade tilt: left 
Blade kerf: 0.118" (3mm) 
Blade plate thickness: 0.078" 
Max. depth of cut, blade at 0º: 3-1/8" 
Max. depth of cut, blade at 45º: 2-1/4" 
Max. rip, left of blade: 12"

CTW


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## albachippie (Feb 2, 2010)

> Unless you have a premium Titanium Saw Stop blade, you should upgrade it. Most stock blades just aren t worthy of the saw they re on. You ll optimize your saw s potential by getting a better blade ...it s money wisely spent IMHO. Otherwise it s like putting lousy tires on an expensive performance car.
> 
> - knotscott


Does the Sawstop require a particular blade to ensure the safety feature actually works? I don't have, nor am I able to buy a Sawstop at present in Europe, but I am just curious?

Garry


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## jak77 (Jan 31, 2013)

Mind you this is just a guess…too slow a feed rate and the board is pinching the blade (internal stress on board) before it reaches the splitter or riving knife.

Put the full blade guard on, loosen the featherboard, make sure your right hand has control of the back of the board and the board is flat on the table and push it through.

I am guilty of some of the same things I think you are doing. Over-analyzing.

Featherboards become helpful when a perfect cut is needed on a small part. Ripping a long board at 3" not necessary.

And is your blade clean? In other words not loaded with pitch from cutting pine.

Good luck and have fun with your new saw.

Garry- no special blade needed

And I agree with Mr. Ron…raise the blade.. the whole "only have the teeth clear the wood" does nothing to help the cut. I personally make sure the gullets clear the wood. Better cuts and better feed rates


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## TimberMagic (Mar 4, 2015)

My saw has an aluminum top, so I cannot use magnetic hold-downs. But I bought the two-pack of GRR-Rippers, and I really like them. Most of the time I am just using one, but on long boards you can use them in a "hand-over-hand" fashion to enable you to keep at least one in contact with the wood at all times.

I also bought a GRR-Ripper brand push block for my jointer. It has hooks that drop down over the back edge of a board, but work like a regular push block when it sits fully on top of the board. I have another brand I use with it. If its anti-slip material goes bad (like my OEM push blocks did) I'll buy anther GRR-Ripper model.


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## sawdust703 (Jul 6, 2014)

`Well, I'd say depth perception has been eliminated. And not to mention the fact that, & this is gonna set the woods afire no doubt, but a high dollar, bragged up saw such as yourn, is no different than any other. Yes, out feed support is important if you're doin' such a process by yourself, but, so is getting the straightest edge to the fence. And IF there were any cup or twist to your board, that should have been face down to the saw deck. Just from experience. You can go out & spend $200 on a shiny new blade if ya want to, but regardless of all that crap, it still comes back to how fast you're attempting to shove it thru that blade, & how straight your edge is followin' the fence. I have never used a feather board to do any thing on my TS. I either run it thru the jointer, or run a hand plane over that fence edge. As far as the blade height, well Sir, the way I set my blade is to lay the material flat on the saw deck, using a tape measure, I measure the height of the material I'm cutting, & and ADD 1/8" to it, that's the height of my blade. You don't need that damn blade comin' up above your cut any further. Its pointless, & asking for trouble. Remember, keep constant pressure against the fence, stand to left of the blade, & always follow the material completely through the cut with constant pressure. Time & more use of your shiny saw will hone your abilities. Just my.02 worth from a HOBBYIST woodworker, & in case you're wondering, I still have all my fingers, & no accidents. Enjoy your day.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

My suggestion might be a bit odd, But it sounds like you might want to consider a feather board on your fence. I've use small piece of lumber and a clamp to keep my long stock from rising. It might not be the most OSHA acceptable but it has worked for me. I give it a little clearance 1/8" to a 1/4" and I've got a roller stand around 18" to 20" from the edge of the table saw. Just a thought


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## SWIDon (Dec 8, 2012)

If you are doing a lot of ripping a set of yellow board buddies come it pretty handy. They are spring loaded to help hold down the stock, are canted slightly to suck the stock against your fence, and the yellow ones have a one way clutch that helps with kickback. I put one ahead and one behind the blade. The one behind must ride on the right side kerf. The one ahead can be adjusted for either. 
A PAIR of roller stands do too (one infeed one outfeed) if you are dealing with much length. A long outfeed table is better than a roller stand but some peoples situations do not allow for that.


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