# off topic



## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

http://www.aol.com/2011/11/22/rocrast-mack-murder-alabama-prison-brutality_n_1109830.html


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

So corrections officers are allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner? That sounds wrong to me. There is some consolation that at least one of the guards is charged with murder.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*"according to witness accounts and prison records."*

That doesn't mean a thing to me…

Those "records" are probably cooked "well done"...

It's a darn shame…


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

It's a true tradedy.
No winners in a system like that.
Mads


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

woodnheven you make it sound like he deserved it ! and you more or less did say that. The penalty for busting a female officers lip and he was wrong throwing a chair a cross the room which caught her after she beat him is not to be beaten to death violently with feet fists and batons by six or so very brave officers. if you had read the whole thing you would have seen there was a pattern long term of abuse and someone else also died at their hands.shameful behaviour I hope he goes to prison for a long time.In anycase the man who died should not have been given 20 years for selling such a small amount of drugs he was an addict himself.Alistair


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

*That's all I read, Too much more to read. *

Translation: I don't need the facts to pronounce judgement.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

This is the era where exceptions are singled out and drilled into people as though they are the rule. No wonder people think their neighbor is too rich and the planet will die if we make another gasoline engine.


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## Porchfish (Jun 20, 2011)

miles125, I could be with you on this ! If I knew which "exceptions" you are speaking of and who it benefits having these "drilled into people" Who are the drillers ? Give us a little more my friend, and I would probably on board with you !


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Miles125: This is the *era where exceptions are singled out and drilled into people as though they are the rule.* No wonder people think their neighbor is too rich and the planet will die if we make another gasoline engine.

Well I don't think you need to think about *exceptions_* when the numbers are much larger than that:

*America spends less than 1% of the federal budget on poverty.*

Total Population: 300 million

Life Expectancy: 77.4

12.7% live below poverty level - 37 million live below poverty level

5.6 million children are in extreme poverty. Extreme poverty means living below $7,870 for a family of 3
11% have food insecurity

9% have no medical insurance

DC has highest national poverty rate at 33%
MA 9.2% poverty, Louisiana 16.7%.

8.6% of whites live in poverty; 25% of blacks.

Among the 21 affluent nations of the world, the USA has the highest number of children living in poverty (18.9%), twice that of the second highest.

US has largest gap between rich and poor of any industrialized nation: bottom 40% live on under $22,000 a year with the USA having the highest number of billionaires in the world: 269.

Since 2000, the number of people below the poverty line has increased by 5 million. We have 37 MILLION (population of CA) in America living below the poverty line. 3.5 million homeless - that's the entire state of OR and 1.3 million are homeless children, with 4% under the age of 5.

Poorest in nation: Pine Ridge Indian Reservation - 85% unemployment, 97% poverty, life expectancy 50, teenage suicide 4 times the national average, infant mortality 5 times the national average. Many families don't have electricity, water or sewer.

Of all the developed nations in the world, the United States has the largest gap between rich and poor.
US ranks 21 on the human poverty list.

17.6 % of children under 18 live in poverty and the highest population of poor are children under the age of 6 where one in five lives below poverty.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

HorizontalMike your post is case in point. You live in the richest and most prosperous country in the world and only see what's lacking. What's your baseline for comparison? Heaven? Because the fact is it don't get any better than America. And the way you can tell is because we need fences to keep people out, not in.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

woodnheaven thats not what you said,
you said

It sure was avoidable, Rocrast didn't have to attack the female guard. If he hadn't we wouldn't be reading about this, would we?
meaning he got what he deserved or he asked for it.You didn't read it all my friend and I am not picking on you but she struck him first he threw a plastic chair and it caught her,which was wrong. He shouldnt have done that but he wasn,t asking for to be brutally beaten to death two wrongs don't make a right.something is far wrong here it's apity you didn't read it seems like this kind of behaviour by the guards was typical. and had been going on for a long time with as I said at least one other death murder of inmates by prison guards is not acceptable. as far as drugs are concerned we need to send the big guys to prison for a long time not nickel and dime addicts who need help 2 years would have been enough beligerrence is not the answer ,clever thinking that works is the answer.The present policy of sending people to prison either for 20 years or 99 years for selling a few dollars worth of a drug desperately trying to keep themselves from withdrawing is not workingAlistair


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## RZH (Nov 20, 2009)

*And the way you can tell is because we need fences to keep people out, not in.*

We got a lot of fences keeping people in:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/us/03prison.html


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Sad story, being beaten and stomped to death is probably a horrible way to go. I would hope that those responsible will all be held accountable for their actions. Just because he is in prison should be no reason or excuse for him to be treated as less than human. Beating a man to death is a savage act no matter how you look at it.


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## RZH (Nov 20, 2009)

*I will defend the system in saying that if you don't show control of a population that is 255% larger than it's supposed to be there could well have been many other deaths to inmates as well as guards.*

*The system * is in violation of the constitution. Society and government have the responsibility to address sentencing laws and prison overcrowding, not making excuses.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-california-reduce-prison-population-30000/story?id=13666195
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24scotus.html?pagewanted=all

*I agree that the sentence may have been long but remember "habitual offender" small fish turn into big fish.*

That is just as likely to happen while in prison, if not more likely, since they are surrounded by criminal role models.

*It's all about choices and if he had made better choices he wouldn't have been there, it would have never happened.*

Yea, it's all that simple. Children living in poverty, poorly educated; they have very clear choices and opportunity. Their circumstance is cast in stone long before they grow up to be adults.


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## RZH (Nov 20, 2009)

Jon,
I don't know Mack's personal situation, but if you were to research the statistics of our prison population in America, I'm confident that you would find that they are mostly poorly educated, economically poor, minority, etc…

*Not many get reformed from going to prison; do you have an answer to fix that? Should we not put them in prison?*

Prison has its place for violent criminals and those that pose a threat to society. No argument there. I don't agree that everyone locked in prison should be there. Society is wasting a lot of resources on this issue.

*Maybe your one that thinks they should have rec rooms with pool tables?*

No, I think, we as a society should look at root causes for our exploding prison population and deal with those issues rather than spending excessive resources on housing non-violent criminals in prison.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

My argument is that what the guy did ,albeit illegal/wrong etc did not warrant being savagely beaten to death by five or six others punching kicking and hitting with batons a very cowardly act.What if your son had been treated like this by prison guards for a very minor offence would that result in no sympathy.
It has nothing to do with sympathy what the guards did was more ilegal than what he did. It seems many times over and got away with it .If this is the kind of beligerent society you would welcome or turn a blind eye to then it's your choice but set in the constitutions laws it states quite clearly that this is not acceptable under your law this is the kind of thing we constantly are blaming China russia middleeastern countries including Turkey with check amnesty internationals records.I cannot believe that an intelligent man like yourself is not horrified by this it says a lot about our slipping standards when we condone or turn a blind eye to acts of torture like this ,didn't we take on Sadam Hussein etc one of the arguments at least accused him of treating his people like this, when we are no better when we publically condem others for the same thing .Sorry I feel strongly about this this system stinks and does not work. Alistair


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

*No sympathy from me. Sorry

Peace*

So this - *I keep God with me throughout the day, how many of you do also?* - is just sanctimonious crap then? WWJD.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*I think Sheriff Joe in Arizona has the correct method of handling the problem.
*
... and it's NOT a Country Club!


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Theres no point saying what if mack did anything to kill someone he didnt he was killed by those in charge who acted themselves highly illegaly who are murderers and they got away with it before .on at least one occasion that's what I find so appalling people hiding the truth like the many, many, peadophiles in the church who instead of facing the law were covered up by the church hierarchy and moved on to do it again sorry wud your not getting it are you the law has to be even handed.I don't think you really care that's what's sad about your answers. Alistair


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

OK Peace Brother lets disagree and remain friends I just hope the murderers get what they deserve.Alistair


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Miles125: HorizontalMike your post is case in point. *You live in the richest and most prosperous country in the world* and only see what's lacking. What's your baseline for comparison? Heaven? Because the fact is it don't get any better than America.

Truth be told, the United States is AT BEST 6-8th place in the world if you are talking about per capita income.

However, if you are talking about what country has the largest prison population, United States really IS NUMBER ONE.

*DO NOTICE THAT MEXICO IS TIED FOR #49. That means that the United States has nearly 423% as many people in jail PER 100,000 citizens than Mexico. America even has 122% more imprisoned citizens than RUSSIA and 216% more than IRAN! And remember that this is PER EACH 100,000 citizens* The United States IS NOT the MOST PROSPEROUS country in the world. Far from it.

PRISON POPULATIONS PER CAPITA:

1 United States: 715 per 100,000 people 
2 Russia: 584 per 100,000 people 
3 Belarus: 554 per 100,000 people 
4 Palau: 523 per 100,000 people 
5 Belize: 459 per 100,000 people 
6 Suriname: 437 per 100,000 people 
7 Dominica: 420 per 100,000 people 
8 Ukraine: 416 per 100,000 people 
9 Bahamas, The: 410 per 100,000 people 
10 South Africa: 402 per 100,000 people 
11 Kyrgyzstan: 390 per 100,000 people 
12 Singapore: 388 per 100,000 people 
13 Kazakhstan: 386 per 100,000 people 
14 Barbados: 367 per 100,000 people 
15 Panama: 354 per 100,000 people 
16 Trinidad and Tobago: 351 per 100,000 people 
17 Thailand: 340 per 100,000 people 
= 18 Latvia: 339 per 100,000 people 
= 18 Estonia: 339 per 100,000 people 
20 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 338 per 100,000 people 
21 Grenada: 333 per 100,000 people 
22 Botswana: 327 per 100,000 people 
23 Swaziland: 324 per 100,000 people 
24 Mongolia: 303 per 100,000 people 
25 Antigua and Barbuda: 278 per 100,000 people 
26 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: 270 per 100,000 people 
27 Namibia: 267 per 100,000 people 
28 Tunisia: 253 per 100,000 people 
29 Taiwan: 250 per 100,000 people 
30 Saint Lucia: 243 per 100,000 people 
31 Lithuania: 234 per 100,000 people 
32 Costa Rica: 229 per 100,000 people 
33 Iran: 226 per 100,000 people 
34 Mauritius: 214 per 100,000 people 
35 Poland: 210 per 100,000 people 
36 Uruguay: 209 per 100,000 people 
37 Seychelles: 207 per 100,000 people 
38 Chile: 204 per 100,000 people 
39 Azerbaijan: 198 per 100,000 people 
40 Romania: 193 per 100,000 people 
41 Uzbekistan: 184 per 100,000 people 
42 Czech Republic: 178 per 100,000 people 
= 43 Jamaica: 176 per 100,000 people 
= 43 Morocco: 176 per 100,000 people 
45 Guyana: 175 per 100,000 people 
46 Israel: 174 per 100,000 people 
47 Libya: 173 per 100,000 people 
48 Honduras: 172 per 100,000 people 
= 49 Brazil: 169 per 100,000 people 
= 49 Mexico: 169 per 100,000 people


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmmm,That same report declares that Cuba has *zero* percent of its population in prison, if I read it right….
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

My hunch is people who habitually quote statistics don't do it for debate with the others. They do it for themselves. It's basically a maintenance program to lie to the self. Because the reality of billions longing to live in America surely requires heavy statistical maintenance to make it not so.


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## retiredandtired (Mar 10, 2011)

how many of the other countries have people locked up or have killed but say they don't do that.


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## TexPenn (Apr 21, 2008)

In the US we have & you have probably heard of the military industrial complex, being run by the same offshore bankers that tell our politicions what to do. Then theres big pharma, big aggra, & so on…. 
Now thay have a new venture…. the prison industrial complex. 
Private prisons owned by the banks & stock holders. If the hotel is empty, the owners & stock holders lose money & the more full it is the more they make. Then they own all the mortgages of the guards & workers homes, own the resturants & hotels that the people visiting the prisoners have to use. & they slave the prisoners making furniture for .10 to .30 an hr & pocket the profits. What do they do with the money??? They use it to lobby our corrupt congress & house to pass BS laws that help keep their hotels way over capacity. If the inmate is still a decent person, they wont be when they get out of their crime school.
Not ready for prison yet? Any town, village or city will gladly sign you up for probation & heafty fine for the smallest infraction. Las vagas is one of the worst. They set up a j-walking sting where they had a guy in a turkey suit to lure people across the street, then give citations to anyone who crossed the street & also for motorists who did not stop. Vagas's motto should be came on vacation - left on probation!
All part of the already in place police state. Cops on every corner & where there isnt one a camera will do. 
For the guy who was killed, I would definately blame over crowding which equates to greed by someone… Bankers, polititions. It will eventually lead to rioting. It hapened at a federal prison in NM in the early 80's or so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_complex

http://www.defendingjustice.org/overview/herzing_pic.html
Please excuse my writing as I am a woodworker, not an english major!!!!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

So Miles125, I guess you ONLY listen to FauxNews and do NOT read for content? Then again, these cop/murderers are in you home state of Alabama. You must be SOoo proud of them huh…..


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*CANADA didn't even make the list?* Maybe that's because our Prisons up here are more like* Country Clubs.*

A large number of the "Guests" live better "In There" than they do out on the streets.

Then we have all the "Bleeding Hearts" groups that are always preaching REFORM! Constitutional Rights! "Yes! They still have the right to vote!" "No steak EVERY Friday night? File a Grievance! Against our Constitutional Rights!

*Pedophile. Murdered 3 Children* (after he---) Given a Life Sentence! Back on the streets in 15 Years.

*SORRY! You do the Crime! You do the time! HARD TIME!* Your RIGHTS?? You don't wanna know where I think you Rights Belong!!

Perhaps it's not the % of Inmates Per Whatever, rather, the Type Of Prison and what goes on there.

Saw a TV Special last week on it. Hanoi Hilton was #2. *#1 was North Korea.* Jammed in like Sardines! Inmates Murdering Inmates was an every day occurence. ONE Toilet for each Cell Block of Thousands, a Hole in the Floor. NO Fresh Water. Look at a Guard the wrong way …..Your Brain just got Air Conditioned!

*KICKER??* Upwards of 60/70% of them in there where still awaiting Trial for a couple of years!

Yea. I know, Communist and all that. So is Russia.

Just dawned on me. How does the Math work when you stress PER 100,000 Population when there is an EXTREME Variance in the Population of all the Countries shown?

i.e. USA 311,000,000+ People. Exceeded only by China and India. CANADA 30,000,000+ People. Russia 139 Million. Mexico 112 Million. N. Korea 24.5 Million.

I'm probably just missing something here MATH and I just don't get along.

Just a quick thought ….. I believe "America" is a Continent not a "Country".


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Another one of *Mikey's* "cut & paste" lists and then edit it to your own liking.
He failed to include the bottom 10 countries of the list because it totally makes the list invalid with conjured up statistics.
Example: Cuba and Zimbabwe and Egypt…..... 0 per 100,000 people
= 155 Comoros: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Ethiopia: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Uganda: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Egypt: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Sudan: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Cuba: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Turkmenistan: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Niger: 0 per 100,000 people 
= 155 Zimbabwe: 0 per 100,000 people

United Arab Emirates: 0 per 100,000 people

Nice try Horizontal, but as usual, you have no credibility in anything you post.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yep, facts are facts and citing one's sources frustrates those Right Baggers that want SOooo much just to prove me wrong (at any price). As far as not including the bottom of the list, well… *the list of countries who imprison LESS than the United States (per 100,000 pop.) includes THE REST OF THE WORLD! DOAH!*

BTW Jim, looks like you are trying to pull a Karl Rove on me:

Rove Tactic #2: Attack Your Opponent's Strengths going after my strength(s) as in my ability to actually find the FACTS behind what I say and NOT just acting on rumors placed in my way…

I know the Republikan playbook and play it right back at ya'll. Kind of frustrating for the rightwing huh… *;-)*


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

@ #23 *So now you want to personally attack my faith?*

I didn't attack it. I questioned it . Note the punctuation. 
Your first line of introduction on this woodworking site is used to declare your faith. Your first posting to the forums is to demonstrate your piety. That's fine, whatever floats your boat. On the internet you can be who ever you want to be.

From what I know of the Christian faith (correct me if I'm wrong), among the principle teachings of it's manifested God are forgiveness, redemption, love/compassion and humankind's commonality as children of God. I'm wondering how those teachings are reconciled with "No sympathy from me" for a child of that God who is beat to death on his knees?


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Mikey just turned this into his "Republikan" thing again.
If the topic were about Stanley tools, he would go ape that the founder was a Republikan Cannibal.
It's gettin old Mikey.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

site your source Mikey otherwise it has zero credibility. we are a nation of laws and when you break the law you go to prison . these guards should get the death penalty for killing someone in their custody they are responsible for his safety and his rehab this case is not over the civil trial will be worth watching as we pay the family for the wrongful death. it is time we stop the madness os spending trillions on the war on drugs when we could legalize it tax it and have education to help people get away from it we could use the saved money and the increased tax revinew to pay for healthcare for the old and the young

on your off topic post about poverty Mikey we could end this if we legalized and taxed the drug users and the producers to pay for feeding the poor remove all the petty dope pushers from prison and the users and let them work it costs 40k a month to house each prisoner lets make that money go toward rehab programs not prison legalize all drugs you cant legislate morality


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

some of the country's with low prison populations kill you if your convicted of a crime they have no prison if you steal they chop off your hand if you kill you die and its quick justice no prisoner rights


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

2 1/2 Dud SAID: site your source Mikey otherwise it has zero credibility.

But Jimmy doesn't WANT me to cite sources, WHAAAaaa! READ *Bush's BRAIN*,. Geez, you would think that a sycophant Right Wingnut would at LEAST read the RepubliKan Handbook on their plan of action.

So 2 1/2 DUD, where is YOUR source for *…country's with low prison populations kill you if your convicted of a crime…*? Dream on…


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

really mike you must stop the name calling it proves you are ignorant. second all you do is argue you in every thread never answer the question that is the topic instead you list irrelevant crap that has 
again an insult its all you can do isn't it Mikey boy I have been to some of these country's i am sure you have never been to the uae or other Muslim country's because there you would spew some of your garbage and die for it in no other country in the world are you free to spew your trash and not be punished by the state in closing Mike call me a name again and i will return the favor and we will come up with a name for you and it wont be kind do you think your funny with the fat jokes mike your no skinny boy yourself and yes Mikey if your going to quote someone don't change the words this out of context and selective editing is unethical your constant plagiarism is that why you lost that teaching job Mikey ?


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Guys, I can't belive you are fighting over this.
I usually never go into these discussions, but…
Is there anyone who can say this is not a sad story for all the involved, the young guy, the guards, the system and the human race at the end.
We talk compassion.
When I read the comments and the arguments I do understand why we get no where these days and why politics rule and win over heartfelt sence from a healthy mind.
If you use this negative energy to solve or helping with imputs to prevent, the criminal rates would fall, please.
Please try and listen to your hearts, I feel sure we can all agree this is a tregedy no matter who is to blame, and that we should try and find understanding to solve this, and not to use it as a reason to fight.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Hey Dud, THIS thread IS about PRISONS. So comparing relative prison populations IS ON-topic.

YOU are off-topic, so I ask AGAIN:
*So 2 1/2 DUD, where is YOUR source for …country's with low prison populations kill you if your convicted of a crime…?*

Or do you mean Alabama?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Mads,
You are correct, unfortunately. All I can say is that after putting up with all the Far Right Ranting for so long, that I have made it a point to respond to the Far Right Ranters in like fashion. The problem is is that most of them are incapable of understanding that they and they alone can start and stop this.

Take the Dud for instance. He probably is a decent guy if he doesn't talk politics, but when he does he does he starts all the name calling and derogatories. I have made it a point to throw that crap back in his face. He doesn't like being on the receiving end yet it has never bothered him BEFORE to be the one spewing it out, all over the place. Only when HIS button gets pushed does he start crying foul. I do NOT even like doing this, but will NOT put up with it from them either. Such is politics in America.

Mads, here is any interesting analysis of Karl Rove's Campaign Playbook. Understanding this allows one to much better understand the Far Right's tactics in a historical perspective. Once those tactics are understood, they can easily be turned 180 degrees and THAT is what upsets all these RepuliKons.

SOURCE: http://www.webster.edu/medialiteracy/journal/FINALKARLROVE.pdf
Tactic #1: Take the Offensive
Tactic #2: Attack Your Opponent's Strengths
Tactic #3: Accuse Your Opponent of What He/She is Going to Accuse You Of
Tactic #4: Go Negative, Then Cry Foul
Tactic #5: The "Big Lie"
Tactic #6: Appeal to Moral Values
Tactic #7 Sell the Bush Persona (or other chosen persona)
Tactic # 8: Sell an Adolescent Worldview
Tactic #9: Exploit the Media
Tactic #10: Create Straw Issues
Tactic #11: Employ Surrogates
Tactic #12: Use Emotional Appeals
Tactic #13: Rely on Expert Testimonials
Tactic #14: Rhetorical Devices
Tactic 15: Use of Language

*Article's Conclusion*
There is no denying that Karl Rove has had a significant impact on the American
political landscape. Further, there is every indication that Rove will extend his influence
over the Republican Party machine in the future. As a result, it is imperative that political
strategists become familiar with the Rovian playbook in order to anticipate these
campaign tactics. Indeed, identifying these tactics should enable strategists to use some
of these Rovian tactics (albeit in an ethical way) on behalf of their candidates.
In general, the most effective ways to counter Rove's political tactics outlined
above include the following:

*Act Preemptively -* A candidate's campaign strategy should be prepared well before
the onset of the campaign. Establish the agenda for the campaign. Immediately
introduce your candidate's strengths and point out your opponent's weaknesses. Try
to anticipate the tactics that would be employed, as well as the exact form that these
Rovian tactics will take.

*Respond in a Timely Fashion -* Given the shrinking news cycle, a candidate must be
prepared to react quickly and decisively to these Rovian tactics. This requires that
they are able to recognize the tactic and know how best to respond

*Embrace the Tactic -* Rather than being put on the defensive, use these tactics as a
vehicle for shedding light on the opponent. It also offers opportunities to call attention
to the candidate's accomplishments and policies.

*Look to popular culture as a resource -* Popular culture can furnish cues and clues
about cultural attitudes, behaviors, values, and preoccupations. Consequently, films,
television programs, and Internet blogs serve as texts that can be very useful in
developing themes and messages that resonate with the public.

*Humor can be a subtle way to attack the argument* without seeming defensive. Humor
is based upon shared understanding; if the audience laughs, they are acknowledging
the basis for the joke.

*Campaign Reform -* is a long-term but essential strategy to combat the Rovian
political machine. Currently, fundraising is essential for purchasing media time and
producing ads, As a result, candidates become entangled with donors, which affects
their campaign platforms. Reforming this system will give all candidates an
independence that will alter the way that they campaign.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

As usual, Mikey finds a "white paper" written by 3 underachieving left wingnuts who are irrelevant, but their fictional prose is just what Mikey ordered.
Google up the 3 of them and then go to "rate my professor" and see what students say about them.

But they wrote about a "Republikon" negatively so Mikey thinks they are experts.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

Surely the modern liberal must have quiet moments when they realize the unraveling of the society coincides with their forty year trip down a rabbit hole that JFK himself wouldn't even recognise as American. But maybe not. We may just be talking about people that simply despise themselves and want to take everyone not so afflicted down with them. I think history will probably refer to them as masochistic bigots.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

The no justice for anyone but the rich system in the US is really quite pathetic. Texass Gov Perry disbanded his commission that was studying their executions when they found he executed an innocent man. Gotta keep that under wraps! Last week Thom Hartman reported a person who lied on a food stamp application to feed her kids got 3 1/2 years while guy who did a multimillion dollar mortgage/foreclosure scam got 2 1/2.

Last week the news reported a random check recalled millions of bags a lettuce because of E coli contamination. That must be a real blow to the extreme right wing wackos on here. Big Gov't cutting into profits in the name of food safety. ;-(( Nobody died or even got sick because of the preemptive strike ;-((

Another interesting note, Hartman also reported on a survey showing FauxNews viewers are 18% less likely to know the truth about events that people who do not watch any TV news!! ;-)) He was focusing on the situation in Egypt When he brought it up.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

The 40 year downward spiral coincides with Arthur Laffer and Reaganomics. Adam Smith and Alexander Hamilton laid out the requirement for a viable capitalist economy. It worked very well for 200 years. What we have now is not capitalist, it is a theocracy. A few monopolies are not capitalism. That takes domestic competition realistic access to markets by new players.

There are very positive signs world wide. There is a revolution at hand. Who knows how hot it will get, but I believe the bastards that have screwed the masses will be coming down real hard. ;-))


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

@topamax are you kidding left wing wackos are the root of over taxation and constant bigger is better government .you claim to be a libertarian yet you spew liberal trash every time you type I think your now a socialist just lie obummer. Why would lettuce upset the rich it didn't it hurt the poor small farmer likely because some uneducated idiot took a dump in the water supply of the lettuce . who are the bastards that are screwing the masses do you have names or is this just another attack on people who are successful more class warfare I thought you said you were successful topa but you sound like a failure with a chip on your shoulder. so which is it are you a success or are you another looser asking for his fair share for contributing nothing I really want to know


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

I'd like to see a list of names of who is running the evil empire, too.

Let's see if the mortgage interest tax deduction survives the next year. I know some people that are not hurting, but will walk away from property the second that gets taken away. Then listen to the RV crowd that claims that as a second home !


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Lance (MissDebbie said I have to call you by your REAL name so you are no longer TheDud),

*Today's top tax rates are historically low*
The highest tax rate on income has been
steadily falling over the past 50 years. In
1960, the top marginal income tax rate
was 90 percent. Today it is just 35
percent, and the Republicans in the
House of Representatives recently
endorsed lowering it further to 25
percent. That would be the lowest top
rate since 1931.

*The U.S. has much lower taxes than other developed countries*
Out of more than 30 countries in the
Organisation for Economic Co-Operation
and Development, the United States
ranks fifth from the bottom in total taxes
paid to all levels of government, as a
share of GDP. Total government revenue
in the United States is nearly 25 percent
lower than the average OECD country.

*The wealthy and superwealthy's tax rates have plunged*
In 2007, the last year before the Great
Recession, millionaires paid just 22
percent of their income in federal income
tax-down nearly 10 percentage points
from the mid-1990s. The richest 400
households in the country-who take in
about $300 million per year on
average-have fared even better. In
2007, they paid less than 17 percent of
their total income in federal income
taxes-down 13 percentage points.

*Tax breaks and tax loopholes have proliferated*
Over the past 25 years, Congress has
introduced billions of dollars worth of
special breaks, subsidies, and loopholes
into the corporate and individual income
tax code. Their total value now exceeds
$1 trillion a year.

And there is MORE where this came from.
SOURCE: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/06/pdf/low_tax_graphs.pdf


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

And to get BACK on topic/thread, consider the following. And while you are thinking about what is listed below, remember the above post how the rich have raped America by skipping out on taxes.

SOURCE: *Too many laws, too many prisoners
Never in the civilized world have so many been locked up for so little *



















In Alabama a petty thief called Jerald Sanders was given a life term for pinching a bicycle. Alabama's judges are elected, as are those in 32 other states. This makes them mindful of public opinion: some appear in campaign advertisements waving guns and bragging about how tough they are.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I never claimed to be a Libertarian nor do I believe in their BS. I have left the Republican party after being an officer because I got tried of being stabbed in the back. Bush the Dumbest was the last straw.

This country has been moved so far right by the campaign to erase the 20th century returning labor to feudalism you do not recognize an independent voice. You label me a liberal because of your own ignorance of fact.

I really do not think much of Obummer, but the facts are he has been trying to cooperate with those who will destroy this country in order to make him a one term president.

The opponents of any government regulations say they only impede profits. There are no small farmers growing lettuce on that scale. Corporate farms whose only concern is the bottom-line grow it. CBS 60 Minutes regularly reports on corps that cover up errors that have life threatening consequences for the public. It is only reasonable the management involved in the recall would much rather see a few people die than absorb the losses of the recall.

The list is too long for me post here. You can start with all the corporate whores in Congress and the Wall Street criminals who have destroyed the economy. Eliot Spitzer had a pretty good list started when he was NY's Atty General. If you have been paying attention to world events in recent years you would know many of them yourself.

Just because I am not a selfish bastard who would destroy every thing and everyone to make a dollar, you label me a liberal?

I have been very successful just about any way you care to define it. Financially I could have and probably should have retired before I was 50. My reputation was legendary among my peers with hundreds of people whom I had never met or heard of knew me and my abilities. I inspired 2 guy's teaching careers because they thought every apprentice who turned out should have my abilities as an electrician. I was credited with preventing the bankruptcy of a major national corporation. Our kids would make any parent proud and are very successful too. I could have joined MENSA and the Sons of the American Revolution, but saw them only as ego trips I didn't need.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Most of you seem to believe the rest of society are a bunch of welfare sucking, lazy losers and you are the only one to have accomplished anything in your life. Admit it, you were born white in the 20th century in America. You had the advantages of an infrastructure to support your business activities provided for you by the government and taxes you hate; or, most of you had living wage jobs with good benefits brought to you by the efforts of organized labor. You enjoyed one the few times in human history with a stable economy and stable political system. You were given free access to the market place not being frozen out by monopoly players. Your market was funded by a large, affluent middle class consumer. You had a reasonable expectation of justice and security.

I hate to deflate your egos, but we won the lottery! Wells Fargo just released a study saying retirement is a luxury of the past. That was my prediction a decade ago when I saw how management was taking all the profits out of the publicly traded companies for themselves.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Calm down guys please. I posted this because what happened to a young guy was murder and I hope that those responsible get what they deserve.I am saying things are wrong when people get massive sentences for small transgressions and others get away with murder.Topomax you're a good guy don't let anyone get you down you're my friend and I say so here publically yopu have a good heart.Alistair


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*scotsman*: You started this by posting some inflammatory nonsense in the first place. I question why you did this, especially when, in other threads, you questioned "*why can't we all just get along*?" knowing that this would result in a bloodbath. [edited for correction]


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Alistair, It never ceases to amaze me the beneficiaries of the late 20th century seem to think they actually did something when they just got lucky ;-) Any time spent doing the most remedial research into the personal lives of their ancestors will prove that beyond the shadow of a doubt. Those wills and estates list things we would box up and donate to charity today.

When the Republican elite finish erasing the 20th century, there will be no benefits for disabled or anyone one else. It has really moved from a political party to a cult that believes they were chosen by God to rule. This is proven by the money they stole from anyone they were able to exploit. What they want the most is access to the last great cash cow, Social Security.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Time to clean the Katbox… No good deed goes unpunished.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

@ topa I must disagree I think your wrong but time will tell as you make predictions about the future post them in a public forum so we will know if your right or not

as for this kid being killed it is a bad deal and the guards should be punished with out a favor of the prison system they betrayed they have killed more than a kid they have killed the trust that the guards will protect the inmates this dosent go on at good prisons like the supermax or even Cochran


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*SuperMax prison is super lax, court cases allege*
From Drew Griffin and James Polk CNN | November 15, 2006
Two California court cases are raising questions about whether prisoners in the nation's toughest prison, SuperMax, are continuing to commit crimes by smuggling coded messages out of the high-security institution. Officially known as Administrative Maximum (ADX) in Florence, Colorado, SuperMax is home to convicted terrorists such as Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph, Unabomber Ted Kaczynski and Ramzi Yousef, who led the first World Trade Center attack. Even though he is serving a life term, Mexican Mafia leader Ruben "Nite Owl" Castro was indicted recently on conspiracy charges that accuse him of continuing to run 18th Street Gang drug sales on the streets of Los Angeles from his SuperMax cell.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

My first biggie was when Nixon went to China. They said, "Big market for American goods." I said, " They do not have any money, but they have unlimited slave labor. Leave them alone."

One thing is for sure, the next generation is going to have a tough time getting a retirement. Market has been flat for the last decade and most likely will be for another. 2020 Dow < = 12500-13000. Interest rates low and inflation staying at 4%+ while the gov't lies to us, US, to keep SS COL increases low. Upper managent still taking nearly 100% of profits out of publically traded companies and the stock holders have no say in the matter. I'm not sure when that will change or if it will. It will take a 70% top tax rate to change it back to preReganomics.

I'm not sure of the date of the revolution, but there are signs the poplulace is waking up. There will be a landslide and justice demanded of a future president just as there was of Roosevlet in the last Great Depression. Obummer apppointed a corpoarte atty as Atty General. With his background he doesn't think they have done anything wrong;-(( Typical atty, "0" ethical values! So, nothing is being done to hold the Wall Street criminals accoutable. If anything brings Obummer down, that will be it.

If we elect a R for the next 2 terms, I think there will be civil war in the US just as we have seen in middle east. You cannot contain millons of people who have no hope and nothing to loose. I do not think enough voters will continue voting against their own best interests to elect R's. But, you never know about a jury or an election ?? ;-((


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Mike the prisoners /100K population is a little tough to reconcile in the Sharia states.
Suppose that when you stone people to death in the streets for REPORTING a rape….suddenly the number of rapists in jail is pretty low.

Also try getting pinched for having some Pot in Pakistan and see if you even see a cell….

Mexico's prison population is low becaue their criminals are all in our prisons here in the US… Unless they are in a sanctuary city like Houston or SanFrancisco.

Simple on the topic issue is that no inmate should be beaten to death

But there are plenty of inmates that should not be breathing…like Manson, a bunch of the gang bangers that you watch when they show inside the supermax prisons, climbing the bars in the guard towers to crap in their hands and throw feces on the guards….rahabilitation from those facilities is a waste of time and resouces.

Been a total of 1277executions since 1976
so about 36/year for the past 35 years

I'm all for hooking up the electrodes on Jerry Sandusky and other pedophiles


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Personally I have no sympathy for the guy - no one forced him to become a career criminal. Everyone knows that criminals who are sent to prison have been arrested several times before they actually end up in there, for the love of god, how many chances do they need before the penny drops.

One guy mentioned poverty, sure that is something a lot of people do not have a choice about, I never grew up with a silver spoon in my mouth and times were often hard as a kid but I never got into crime, some that I know did, not because they were poorer than me but because they wanted to feel the "buzz" some of them even did time. The ones I have met since have regrettted it, and now live full and active family lives but they had their choice then and made the wrong one.

Wonder why there is no crime in the likes of Singapore or some of the arab states?? public floggings and "life" in goal. They too live in poverty but they don't commit crime. Simple message, commit crime and you will live to regret it….in some cases not.

I'm tired and sick to the hilt of the liberal middle classes bleating on about how hard done to the criminals are, what about their victims? who thinks about them? Here in the UK there are 47 agencies set up for the care of offenders…....how many for the victims of crime…..the answer is one. What does that tell us.

A case at court a year or two back had a judge reprimand a victim of a burglary because he had the audacity to attack the intruder in his own home at 3 o'clock in the morning when his family were upstairs asleep. He was told by the judge that he should have let the guy leave. Can you imagine "How are you Mr Burglar, see anything you like? I'm sorry I have worked hard to improve the life of my family so please take what you want just, if you don't mind, please don't take a dump on my front room carpet, if that's OK with you, I'm off back to bed."

I don't feel guilty about working hard to pay my way, pay my dues and respect others and their property, but criminals, what happens to them…...that's their choice.

This comes from another proud Scotsman!


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

+1
Bluekingfisher


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

+2 Topa
-1 Dirt-need sources for your statements, not just fear mongering diatribe.
-1 Bluekingfisher-^ see above


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

I think Jeffrey Dahmer got his justice in prison as well.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

poopie my friend why does this need to end in a bloodbath that should not be so it's a simple case of murder.One law if you like for the convicted crimional i.e he shouldn't sell dope but the guards can kill him for no good reason.I am surprised by a man of your intelligence doesn't see that.A good debate maybe (well marked off topic) but not deserved of calling it a potential bloodbath.keep out if you can't stand the heat but most peole realise what was done was simply wrong illegal and bad.I was outraged by this not because the guy killed in such a way was a good guy but that the law must be seen to work .It seems that once you go to jail your dead meat and no one cares but we should care this is a bad example of justice if you don't recognise that, as most have, then I hope your son never ends up in such a place. Please remember the guy may be of low intelligence and desperate for a fix that does not make him think soberly like you and i do. I am genuinely not sorry to print something that is so wrong it is simply bad policy in the usa, if we treat people like animals then we produce animals.as said it is marked of topic I am only the one who brought it to your attention and most here don't mind that this kind of thing needs to be debated sorry for him or not.Alistair


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Well stated Alistair.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Here ya go mike - - sad that you need proof of Sharia barbarism….and think it must must be some fearmongering.

so -2 for Mikey

http://bikyamasr.com/48967/yemenis-tire-of-al-qaeda/

Drug consumption is strictly forbidden in Islam as any other substance which would diminish one's mental abilities and state of mind bringing one to a state intoxication.

The men were caned 80 times for their disobedience and infraction to God's Laws as reported by "Ansar al Sharia."

Earlier this year, a young boy and a man had their hands cut off for stealing electric cables, leading to the death of the youngest due to the loss of blood due from the severing of his limb.

Several residents in Jaar told local press that they were appalled at such barbarism, as they stressed that the militants were using the Qur'an out of context sullying its laws and teachings by promoting violence.

Ahmed al-Rawhih, Abyan Deputy Governor told reporters that residents were strongly denouncing the flogging, saying: "People are complaining about this terrorist and regressive group which claims to be acting in the name of religion, but it is the one violating religious principles by committing murders and causing thousands of people to be displaced as they flee their homes."

*But the prisons aren't crowded YAY!!!* You just hack off the hand - or give them their 80 lashes and send them home… No jail time.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I had to lol at the title, "Yemenis *tire *of al-Qaeda". Is seeing people getting their hands cut off something that you "tire" of? Hilarious choice of words.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

cr1
+10


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

CR it always serves to remind me what a bunch of whackos are in charge of the indoctrination of the next generation and why I need to stay deeply involved with my kids lest they think the crap they are being taught is real, and are forced to struggle mightily to make ends meet in a world they are not being prepared for.

But it is all taught with the latest methods that somebody wrote down between bong hits at cal tech. "dude education would be so great if (inhale and hold) pffft kids didn't have to like ya know conform to the man…..wait I should write that down, pass me my laptop and doritos"

The above will be amusing to him - - he can be like one of those mcDonalds toys that you just pull back then watch them skitter across the floor and scare the cat….one of lifes little pleasures


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I can't escape the imagery that our Country is one big, angry zit; only now coming to a head.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yep, like al-Qaeda runs ALL Muslim countries. Have another hit Dirt, and watch out for those aliens.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

You got that one right Al!


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

i DONT LIKE TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE BUT THIS GUY WAS DOING TIME HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN KILLED by the guards who are suposed to protect them from eachother and who is the law for the past 3 years i worked i was working at Corchran1 ya with Charles Manson i ASURE YOU HE IS BEING WELL CARED FOR BY THE STATE AND WONT BE KILLED BY GUARDS OR INMATES and if anyone deserves to be beaten to death it is him but 2 crimes are worse than 1 and if you kill your a murder plane and simple


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Lance SAID: "...for the past 3 years i worked i was working at Corchran1[SIC] ya with Charles Manson…"_

*Corcoran State Prison* huh… Well I guess that explains a few things… ;-)


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## TexPenn (Apr 21, 2008)

Dont forget their favorite hires are unstable returning vets with an IQ of under 100


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Ted what is your axe to grind with our returning vets?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

That's OK, I'm a vet with an IQ well above 100, I've seen just what Ted is talking about. Even my buddy, who is a retired police chief and who worked as a guard in a Texas Prison AFTER retirement as well as currently working a Probate Officer, CONFIRMS Ted's comments as well.

FWIW, I bailed after completing the law enforcement academy for the National Park Service for very similar observations/perceptions back in the 80's. Never looked back and have no regrets.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

If THAT is what you call a Federal Law Enforcement job…

Jonathon, maybe YOU are thinking of YOUR local Mayberry RFD, yew 'noz wherez ya groo up atz.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

One of the required core classes: Keeping Yogi and Booboo from Stealing Picanic (sic) Baskets 101

Another: Sign Making e.g. "Moose Knuckles are Strickly Furbidden"

;=)


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yep David,
And the last time I pulled over someone from Georgia I snapped an image for evidence…


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

If anyone ever thinks an officer of the National Park Service doesn't have any juice, test the waters with those guys. Where I'm from, they are certainly not to be taken lightly.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Alright, I get it Jonathan. Is there anything you do respect?


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

No doubt, what is wrong with being a park ranger? Someone has to look out for the wildlife and nature. NatGeo had a show following rangers in california, I found interesting and entertaining. Potentially dangerous job worthy of respect. Besides that, making fun of a person's legal taxpaying profession, is well…less than becoming.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I have enormous respect for them. In the swamps of Louisiana, the last thing you want to do is anger a Wildlife Agent. They didn't have much of a sense of humor and they had a low threshold for putting you in a box. Here in West Virginia, they've been quite competent and helpful on many occasions. Of course, most citizens nowadays would rather watch animals on Xbox than go to a National Park. That doesn't change the inherent importance of the job.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Hey "Wad in Heaven"

What's your "elite" profession…....besides your writeup of "Male, Christian"?


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I guess it would have been funnier if it weren't directed at someone. I'd like to think I've got a decent sense of humor but I get a little too sensitive in these threads on occasion. My bad if that happened here.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Yeah, I guess I thought it was piling on more that just a light hearted jab. Seems like some things should be a little more off limits to me. Such as an legal occupation that pays the bills and puts food on the table.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

in wudnhaven did was protect himself from mike who was trying to prevoke him like he always does I think you guys came in on the end of a heated mikey attack and didnt read that part or just overlooked it wund had every right to fight back with mikey he asks for it then he leaves and your just seeing the aftermath of another heated thread dur to mikey


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Actually I had read all the posts, I read a lot of the stuff on this site. I know you guys are like cats and dogs on the political ideals. I know who gets along and who does not, it just seems like there should be some sort of line. Just my opinion, you can disagree, that is cool. But making fun of a person's vocation seems out of bounds to me, as do other things that have been said by all parties. I will but out of the feud, but being a park ranger or any other legal occupation a man has should not be ridiculed, in my opinion. Carry on…


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

*All I can say (to anyone concerned) is if your offended by it, don't read it.*
I can definitely agree with this. I'm not white knighting anyone, especially Mikey. I just felt like attacks on someone's profession are a bit much, given the current state of affairs, which ever side you're on. Mike and Cr1 might both be bonafide nuts (  ) but I figure they're both trying their best to be gainfully employed. Like you said, though, I don't think anyone's feelings are hurt. I'll admit that I might need to toughen up a bit.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Daayemm! I'm bonerfy'd? Chit and I had already bought the White Silk Jacket 'n tie fer bein' Night'd!

*;-)*

Since YOU ALL are all talkin about dissin' jobs and such…

*wudnhevn*: Mike is a big boy and can handle anything I can dish out.

As far as the hypoChriste that wants to be known as WudnHevn, QUIT HIDING BEHIND YOUR ANONYMITY!... Do you actually HAVE a name? A woodshop?, A location?
I didn't think so… Carry on…

*HYPOCHRISTE [hip-uh-krist] noun*
other variations: hypochristic, hypochristian, hypochristy
a person who pretends to have Christian virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I thought Charlie Manson was in Vacaville….


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Dang, you got me Mike. Should I leave now?

Whu… you tryin' to get me to believe in hypochrist-mas now?


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

back on topic please.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Weird…..... back on topic… on the "off topic thread"......... just kidding MsDebbie. Does sound funny though.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

no Charles is not in vacaville he in at cor 1 and doing just fine thanks for asking and when will mike stop the nonsense answer about the time Charles gets Paroled.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I wonder if there is a rule about if so much of the crap you write gets deleted for vulgarity or name calling you get banned. I am in favor of that rule for as you know Mike must hold the record for this ******************** . you all see his posts disappear ever day you would think the powers that be would get sick of babysitting a 65 year old man.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Cr1, I clicked on the randomsite generator 10 times and it was blocked every time at work, lol. What's the odd that a "random" site is a p0rn site, lol.


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