# Dowel Joinery Survey



## Shelbdog (Dec 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,
I'm trying to learn a little more about dowel joinery. I appreciate those willing to share their experience with dowel or lack of dowel joinery. Thanks for your response in advance.

Microsoft Forms


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

I've used dowels, but I prefer biscuits. A couple of #20's are faster to align and install. Those little dowel transfer gadgets that fit in on hole and have a spike to mark the far side only work so-so. If your holes are fat the error falls into the allignment. If youi don't set the points correctly the first time you can have misplaced marks. With a biscuit cutter your offset is fixed and it's easy to hit your witness lines.


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## Shelbdog (Dec 21, 2012)

MadMark said:


> I've used dowels, but I prefer biscuits. A couple of #20's are faster to align and install. Those little dowel transfer gadgets that fit in on hole and have a spike to mark the far side only work so-so. If your holes are fat the error falls into the allignment. If youi don't set the points correctly the first time you can have misplaced marks. With a biscuit cutter your offset is fixed and it's easy to hit your witness lines.


Thanks for the insight.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

I would say that dowels provide more structural support than biscuits which primarily provide good alignment as cited by MadMark. Of course that will depend on the size and number of dowels and what you are trying to accomplish whether is it alignment of boards being glued together or reinforcing but joints. There is also dowels used to cross lock joints together and often used to pull the joint tight. In some cases, like breadboard ends, they are used to hold the end board on but with oversize holes in the tenon allow for wood movement.

Long commercial dowels are not always precise or uniform in size but dowel pins should be and come pre-grooved to release glue pressure when forced in place. When possible I prefer to use mortise and tenon joints. The newer types of floating tenons are also great but the tools for using them can be expensive....see Festool.

Knowing what your project is would help in giving more specific advice.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend using them in chairs personally but otherwise I have a lot of confidence in dowels.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

not a fan but i do use them when it's the best method. i use biscuits or more so the domino when strength is needed. each has it's merits.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Going back to dowels where I am not doing traditional jointery. My biscuit jointer is for sale. Not precise enough. Biscuits have zero strength and because of their slop, do not align as well as a dowel. Modern glues have allowed us to rethink a lot of things. In any case, both are more for locating than for strength. If you need strength, then traditional joinery is the way to go. I just tried to use my DeWalt bischit for some bathroom trim, and it was far worse than just doing clean scarfs. So, not even good for carpentery ( IMHO of course) 

Now for the help. THere are several pretty clever videos on DIY jigs. Simple blocks and such. THan some really fancy ones like M-Power or Bridge City. I have not had much luck withthe cheap ones, so I diy.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

I use dowels quite often when making projects of solid wood, where a mortice/tennon type joint typically would be used traditionally. With precisely drilled holes, using pre-compressed and grooved dowls, glue on both dowel and in hole they are very strong. Especially projects where I want a strong joint - bot do not want to fuss too much with it.

For work in sheet goods I use a bisquit jointer wich is good for this kind of work - but I find it rather useless in solid wood projects.

It is my impression that dowles have a bad reputation due to a lot of cheap furniture have been made with them that were not properly glued or not made accurate enough. I own (danish) chairs that are 60 years old and have been used ewery day that are put together with only dowels.

Dominoes are a type of dowel and the whole Festool system is nice to use. But with dowels you have more flexibility regarding size and depth - and where there is often room for a domino you can often fit two dowels that are stronger than one domino.

Good luck with your projects!


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

As others have said, biscuits are good for alignment but offer little strength. Dowels used appropriately are very strong. Although opinions will vary, many consider a properly doweled joint at least as strong as a Domino or mortise and tenon joint. 

There are a couple of good tools available; I use and highly recommend the Dowelmax. It is well designed and machined to very precise tolerances, and is very accurate with a little practice. Once you understand the process it is very versatile. I’ve used mine for tables, chests, stools, doors and cabinets. You can visit their website or search on Youtube for videos to give you an idea of the process and capabilities.

If you do decide to give dowels a try, be aware that since the tolerances are tight they are sensitive to humidity. I live close to the coast in San Francisco, and the damp weather will cause the dowels to swell slightly making them harder to insert. A couple of minutes in the microwave will dry them out for a nice fit, and I then store them in a ziplock bag.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Enough with that "biscuits add little strength" canard!

Biscuits are technically a "loose tenon" joint, and depending on the application, can add a LOT of strength. Most folx only think of table top glue ups for biscuits. In _THAT_ application, you're sorta right, the long grain edge joint isn't strengthened much (the biscuit DOES disrupt crack formation). However, in end to long joints, they add considerable strength. You can build hugely strong cabinets with sheet goods and biscuits. They're also great for simple cabinet doors for connecting rails & stiles as butt joints. Cabinet faces connect with biscuits.
Dowels can be a pain to align, those little transfer things don't work well and trying to consistently align dowel pairs can be troublesome with out good jigs and fixtures. A biscuiter, for me, is easier to align and use than a dowel jig and a drill. You ever try to drill vertically in a 1x12? In the middle of the bench?


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I've done biscuits and dowels. I've got a Dowel-it jig, that is really accurate. The only problem is the need to trim down the dowels. That can be time consuming. I'll take a dowel joint or biscuit joint over a Kreg pocket hole any day of the week.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

The poster never said they were building a project, they never asked about which method of joinery was better or stronger, they were taking a survey to see if you have ever used dowel joinery. I'm curious, how many looked at the questionnaire before posting? I have used dowel joinery. A good quality dowel jig makes it easy, but not fool proof.


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

Rarely if ever do I use dowels. I'll pin joints for strength and exposed visual design. But for hidden alignment, I use biscuits and for structural connections I use Dominos. Dowels can be used for both of the aforementioned, but setup is just too hit and miss for me.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

The toughest part about dowels for me is when you have multiple dowels in one piece and you need them to be perfectly aligned side to side. This is particularly difficult in end grain where if it's not perfect you will split the wood. Festool addressed this when they designed the Domino; you typically cut the first (or one) mortise the exact size for alignment side to side, then turn the width selector one notch and subsequent mortises are a tad wider allowing room for error. Perhaps dowel jig makers could adapt this and make a second set of guide holes with an elongated hole.


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## BigMig (Mar 31, 2011)

Dominos are different from dowels in that when dominos are glued in, they have an appreciable area of face-grain-to-face-grain glue surface that makes for a good joint, whereas a dowel has a substantial area of end-grain glue surface.

Think of a dowel as a cylinder of straws stuck together. However, many of the edges are sheared off - making a dowel a lot of end-grain surface. Think about it. The dowel mortice is the same.


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## JRsgarage (Jan 2, 2017)

I used to hate using dowels for the same reasons mentioned above...until I tried the Jessem 8350. Everything seems intuitive by design, easy to layout multi dowels


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

*Depending on the project on hand.* I'll use dowels or biscuits. I use the General Dowel jig. It does a good job for me. I have in stock 1/4",5/16", 3/8" and 1/2" dowels. When I'm making chests, I normally use dowels. I do also use the bead-lock dowel system the Rockler offers.

When using dowels, I prefer the fluted dowels, not the spiral dowels. Easier to blow-out the hole (crack open the wood) when pushing the dowel in place with the spiral dowels.


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

BigMig said:


> Dominos are different from dowels in that when dominos are glued in, they have an appreciable area of face-grain-to-face-grain glue surface that makes for a good joint, whereas a dowel has a substantial area of end-grain glue surface.
> 
> Think of a dowel as a cylinder of straws stuck together. However, many of the edges are sheared off - making a dowel a lot of end-grain surface. Think about it. The dowel mortice is the same.


With respect, I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. A dowel has face grain around it’s circumference with end grain on the ends, just like a domino. I think the ratio would be nearly identical. Same with the mortises.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

Fotodog said:


> With respect, I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. A dowel has face grain around it’s circumference with end grain on the ends, just like a domino. I think the ratio would be nearly identical. Same with the mortises.


I haven’t found much difference between a dowel and A Domino. At the price of a Dowel versus Domino, apply more dowels. M&T is better than both..


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