# Mitre Box of your Dreams



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

With a nod to the Epic Thread, there are hopefully enough hand-tool enthusiasts out there to address a LJ topic area that's lacking: the venerable mitre box. Stanley, Langdon, Goodell Mfg, Miller's Falls, etc. What you got? What you want? Questions? Dreams? Boxes and saws for them, post it all below!

*REFERENCES THAT MAY BE USEFUL:*
-http://tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/index.html
-https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/gallery/millers-falls/langdon/74
-For those of you who follow such things, please note that the Langdon Mitre Box Reference web site is migrating to Wordpress.com from Google Sites.

The URL of the new site is: https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com

-And this post from Doc Bailey on Stanley 150 boxes.

Here's my go-to, a Stanley SW #346, Frame 3:



















How about yours? Love mitreboxes!


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## lysdexic

You have a Stanley SW miter box. A very cool one I might add. Who would a thunk.

Seriously, I don't have a miter box but I have been told the red Millers Falls is the one to get - like the ome that Don and Dan have. I'd like to know why though.


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## cabmaker

Smittey, while I certainly have respect for your post, After trimming many houses my miller fallls rig was finally stolen. That was thirty five years ago. I shortly therafter bought the latest rockwell mitre saw that hit the scene. Then about thirty years ago I bought a used 10 mikita chopsaw (still have it). All of my mitre boxes will have cords on them. enjoy JB


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How about a big honkin' (ugly?) Craftsman? Needs some love:










Saw handle design at it's nearly worst:


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

JB- I have a cast iron 10" Craftsman chorded miter that does the framing cuts. Wouldn't do without it! But I also love working with hand power when the situation permits. Thanks for checking in!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Anyone out there have a resource that explains the "Frame" numbers in the Stanley world of mitres? Has to do with the height of the paired rods, front and back, and as a result the depth of cut possible, but that's all I've discovered to this point…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kat, thanks and it's a blast to use. Not for everything, but it's truly an asset to the shop. Soetimes I see mitres for cheap, other times I'm amazed and their 'value' in the antique stores and flea mkts.


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## DocBailey

Here's a slighter newer version of Smitty's rig-my 1955 Stanley 346









The middle number in the Stanley numbering scheme for these boxes refers to the height of the backsaw (in inches).
The Langdon Acme Millers Falls is also a very nice box. I just sold a very nice example from the '30s. They don't go cheap.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Doc, you've got the full compliment of rods underneath! Excellent, as I hope to find those parts someday… Thanks for the numbering insight as well, i sold an All-Steel that I hope will appear here in a pic someday. It was nice, just had too many…


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## donwilwol

Here is mine. The restore blog


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

An awesome restore, Don. Anyone using one of these?










Wonder if the blade stays true or wants to skew of line in thicker stuff?

For storage, is open shelves the way? Draws? Or ? Don, where's yours live between uses?


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## chrisstef

now ya done it … im gonna have to blow the dust of my old stanley miter box and post some pics tonight. Its been up on a shelf for about a year now …. thanks Smitty, now i gotta do some restoration to keep up with the Jones'.


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## donwilwol

Unfortunately I'm still looking for a home spot. Right now it lives under my table saw, but thats not where its going to stay. If you look in the lower right hand corner of this photo you can see it.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

They're hard to capture in a single frame with detail… Bring it on, love to see and hear the story how you got it!


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## DocBailey

Smitty - not long after I read your post, I stumbled across this - maybe a start on completing your mitre box-just thought I'd throw it out there
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Parts-Grab-Bag-61Gauge-40-Level-358-Miter-Box-Stop-Gage-Plane-Screw-/290692633083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43aea191fb#ht_620wt_1396


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## superdav721

I use a yellow plastic one, but Smitty I am looking for a good one. Thanks for opening this blog. It will give me a good reference point.


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## StumpyNubs

I have one very much like the setup *Smitty *posted. I bought it about fifteen years ago from my family's hardware store, like most of my first tools. Of course, I never use it any more. Maybe I should get it back out and take it for a spin…










*Dave*- I really like this style, but if I was to buy another one, I'd look for a vintage one. It's like hand planes and chisels, using old ones just make you feel like a real woodworker!


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## superdav721

Stumpy that is a nice one. I like the saw!


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## waho6o9

I use this when it's only a couple of miters, and it leaves a clean cut. It's a Jorgensen and I like it.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Those do look like the nicest of the new ones.

Love Jorgensen stuff…


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## DKV

I'm going broke trying to keep up with you guys.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks, Doc. The part is mine, now to find thumbscrews and rods… Assembly continues!


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## racerglen

I started with the plywood variety, then at some point a plastic Stanley showed up..briefly..then this guy..


















He's got a 2×2 screwed to the base, initialy that was to use in the Workmate, but now it just drops in my bench vice as required..I put it in service rescently for the crown mouldings on a case my son's "making" he was out of town at the time and wondered how I'd cut the miters as he has an ex boss that dropped 6 g on kitchen cabnets you can see daylight through the miters..go figure..
And then came..








not sure of the vintage, but it's a Craftsman with a 28" bladed German made Craftsman saw.








The saw has a plywood handle, slightly relieved to fit my tender hand.
The base alows me to put it where ever needed.


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## donwilwol

Glen, that's a nice looking rig. I always try yo look at plywood saw handles as laminated gun stocks. They are an upgrade. I love the greenish Remington laminated stocks.


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## racerglen

But never mind the Remington multi colored plastic of the '60s ?

;-)


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## donwilwol

yea, some of those should be on Daisey BB guns


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That Craftsman is done up nice! Is that original paint, or did you do some rehab to it? And it's amazing you get good results from that Handyman. I think a video tutorial is in order…


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## racerglen

Orriginal paint, just gleaned the years of gunk off.
Ah, video ? You've seen how most of my stills turn out Smitty…
Just make sure the clamping thingie is in the right spot and DO NOT use the offshore brass backed saw..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Now I'm thinking of reshaping the Craftsman saw handle pictured above. Anything would be an improvement, right? And there's a backsaw in the shop that must have come from a small mitre setup, it had a plastic handle. Not greenish, like what was on my Daisy, but rather black. It's actually comfortable to use.


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## racerglen

MY SAW HANDLE ?
I've already done some, but if I were to do anything else it'd be "real" wood..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry, the craftsman handle I have… Yours is definitely an improvement, mine is 'as shipped.' I've got a ziploc ready to go, so if I reshape and sand off the finish I can even get some color into it. Mine's not ply, but solid (I think, anyway).


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## racerglen

The other saw, over on dreams there of, has a solid handle, same medalion as the miter box one..
I did very little to it, but the big guy here required quite a bit of "breaking the edge" before it was anywhere near comfortable.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Went to Arnold, Mo. after work for a like-new Workmate, ended up with that and another mitrebox. Saw is a Disston (26×5), etch reads "Made Expressly For GOODELL-PRATT COMPANY Toolsmiths GREENFIELD-MASS"

No marks on the box, but pistons are very Langdon-like…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Owner explained his mother had the saw wrapped carefully in newspaper from the day it came home from the hardware store from a sharpening, decades ago. Price of that sharpening and pick-up date in grease pencil, on the blade:


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Never seen this before, but front piston can be adjusted outward for wider boards. Loosen the big screw in the center of the pic and slide…










No maker's marks on the mitrebox itself… :-(. Anybody got ideas?


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## lysdexic

What you going to do with that Smitty? How many does that make?


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## jusfine

None of these look like my Festool miter saw, is this where I add the photo?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Go for it, Randy!

Uhm… The answer is six, and I've sold one that's not in that count. Two more will sell, I think…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Goodell-Pratt from 1899-1931, when it was purchased by Millers Falls.


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## ksSlim

Smitty.. Score!! that one is a keeper. Grip better than average, full adjustable pistons, what more can you ask.
Saw even has the big D markings. Miter box only lacks the ultra thin wood filler in the saw track that came shipped with them new.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, man, and does it cut! The sharpen is an awesome job… It also has a rod that locks it at any angle. Very nice box, features better than my Stanley.


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## waho6o9

Beautiful Smitty, I'm glad you got a great saw and miter box. Originals rock!


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## mochoa

How did this thread slip past me. These are cool, I want one.


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## racerglen

Talk to Smitty, he's aparentlyh thinking about selling a couple…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks to DocBailey I'm a bit closer to a complete rod assy on my Stanley mitre…


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## DocBailey

So you snagged that one, huh?-good job!

If you're not already doing so, keep an eye out on your local Craigslist for compatible models. Mitre boxes, while plentiful, are not cheap to ship - but you can often snag a local one cheaply (especially when the saw is long gone) and get the rest of the pieces you need.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's where the thumbscrews came from… ;-)

Now rod material (easy, but what lengths)?


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## DocBailey

Smitty -
Next time I'm over at location where my 346 is at-I'll get some photos of underside and measurements.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sweeey. Thanks, Doc!'


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

(Sweeet…)


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## dbray45

I recently (last year) bought an older (1965 or so) Craftsman Mitre Box that was made by Millers Fall. It came with the original saw that was in serious need of a sharpening. Later I bought a mitrebox saw an it turned out to be an original Langdon mitre saw made by Disston.

This replaced a Ryobi chop saw that wouldn't stay true, which replaced a wonderful Stanley that my sister told me she needed and sent her.

I enjoy using the manual mitre saws.


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## mochoa

So how many of you have fired your electric chop saws now that you have Mitre Box Saws?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I use mine, an older and very heavy 10" Craftsman miter, when framing and that's about it. Sits low in a cabinet, collecting dust most of the time. First choice for cross cuts is RAS, then one of the mitres hanging around the shop depending on what I'm working with.


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## donwilwol

I have to admit I still use mine. I have a 30 year old Makita. Still accurate and fast. It sits next to my RAS.


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## lysdexic

Mauricio, this bench build has convinced me of the value of a sliding miter saw or RAS. I think to get rid of it is conceptually a cool thing to do but, to me, stubbornly impractical. That being said, I still want a nice miter box in the future.


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## mochoa

I'm with you Scott, I want a miter box but I dont think I would get rid of my chop saw. There are just some times where it is the most practical tool for the job.

More than the philosophical idea of getting rid of power tools I just like the idea of decluttering and having a shop that can fit in a small space. And reducing the need for dust collection.

I've had my portable table saw folded up in a corner for a while but dont see getting rid of it until I've mastered my band saw and get that thing cutting dead straight.


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## mochoa

You know if could get my band saw cutting dead straight it would eliminate a lot of the things I use my lunch box planer for too.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The observation I'd make on the RAS / sliding miter saw comment, Scott, would be that the SCMS doesn't do dado cuts and doesn't rip. And I use my RAS for those things (although alot of folks do not).


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## bandit571

If someone lives near this little town where I live, there is a Craftsman Miter box, with TWO saws. One is the big LONG one, the other is a shorty. The box, and both saws @$10. Light gray with red trim, NOT a new one, either. About the only saws he has left, since i cleaned him out two weeks ago.


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## lysdexic

Agreed. Another thing that I decided while cutting those big pieces for the bench top is the dust control with the SCMS is just awful. I accept the fact that this is inherant to the miter saw, but the amout of dust just sucks. Nothing in my shop spews forth like that and the airborne dust gets on everything. I hate using mine for that reason.

If i could get rid of it I would. No love lost.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yeah, dust w/ the RAS is bad, too. I can tell after using it 20 minutes or so that the shop is covered in a fine layer of dust the next day. Hate it, but haven't worked up a solution because I still have aspirations to build a long built-in along the RAS wall with a suck broom built in… So I live with it for now.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bandit - there's a fellah about 90 minutes from me that has $1 on a CL listing for a vintage Stanley Mitre with saw… I'm about to call him and set something up, but I need another of those like I need another hand plane. Wait, I do need another of those… Crap.


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## racerglen

Steady Smitty, steady..
Deep breaths and the urge will slowly…what ? INCREASE ?


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## donwilwol

I may be to old and set in my ways, but if I had to get rid of power tools one at a time, the table saw would be the last to go. Without a doubt.


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## lysdexic

My bandsaw would be the last.


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## dbray45

I am not giving up my RAS. I have this adjusted and cleaned up and works great for crosscuts and dados. The bandsaw is great for what it does. When I go on site, I take my handsaws.


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## mochoa

I have my chopsaw on a rolling cart and I roll it over by the open garage doors whenever I use it. I try to do all my dust making as close to the open doors as possible, and I have fans going to push the dust out.


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## Bertha

Scott, I'm not sure you'd me much happier with the dust control on a RAS. I just let mine blast against the wall and collect what I can in a bucket. My shroud has a 1 1/2 inch port on it, lol. Like auricio, I wheel my CMS outside and let it eject into the ditch. The Kapex does pretty well with dust but…well, you know. 
.
I'm obsessed with manual miter boxes but I've never found one I could afford. currently I have two yellow plastic ones from Lowes. Haters gonna hate.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think the table saw would go before my RAS, but of course neither has to go at all  My stationary power tools, with the exception of the mortiser, are very pedestrian and that's plenty of power / quality / capability for me when it comes to electron killers. Mitre boxes seem to be like hand tools to a majority of active LJs: used, but sparingly. That will change as (when) I use more trims / mouldings on projects, because that's where these boxes excel.


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## dbray45

Al, if I were to get the Stanley back from my sister, I'll sell you my current one for $50 and shipping. It is not likely that is going to happen so don't hold your breath.


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## mochoa

Scott, could you imagine having to cut the legs of your bench without SCMS? However if I had one of these little Miter boxes, I would probably use it a lot for cutting most parts to size.


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## lysdexic

That is one of the things that I kept thinking.

First, I kept thinking "I hate this friggin miter saw as it spewed dust into the shop but aslo as it put a nice, square, finish x-cut on a 5 1/2" x 5 1/2" leg.

Next, I was thinking how I could get by without it. Seriously, it is a space hog. But how could a x-cut larger stock with a back or panel saw but the resulting surface is not that pretty, at least in my hands. The means planing end grain. Again, in my hands the results are not pretty outside my shooting board. Plus the time.

But there are people, Tolpin comes to mind, who live out a RAS or SCMS/CMS. I just don't know how.


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## mochoa

Yeah but on his workbench build he Toplin borrowed a friends jointer, heck I could do without a lot of tools like that!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, Yeah! Scored another mitre box!


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## racerglen

Free, or did the previous owner pay you ?

;-)

(I know, anything that says Stanley ? )


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Fiddy cent, and this bad boy was ALL MINE!


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## lysdexic

Just antoher chance to show off the lamp!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, that is LOL, Mr. Lysdexic…  Had no idea that knife was so easy to twist… Oh, my…


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## lysdexic

What can I say? I have a soft spot for art nouveau light fixtures.


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## Dcase

I have a Langdon Millers Falls box with Disston Saw. I had the saw sharpened for me by a woodworking friend and once sharp this became one of the most used tools in my shop. I now keep the box out on a bench with the saw in it so its always ready to go. Its amazing how accurate the Langdon box is.

I find it most useful for cutting odd angles and miters on small pieces. Here are a few shots of mine sawing through a thicker block of oak.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's my only piece of art noo-voe, too. What's the diff between that and gothic or victorian re: light fixutures?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan - nice! Does your box have a hold lever that actually keeps it in place between the numerous presets? I had an All-Steel that was supposed to do that, but wasn't adjusted (I guess) to make it so. The Goodell-Pratt one I have does it real well…


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## Dcase

Smitty, I am not sure I understand your question. Are you talking about a lever that keeps the saw in place when doing an angled cut?


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## dbray45

On my MF mitre box, there is a lever under the carriage that goes left to right to lock the carriage when not in the preset 5 or 10 degree positions - this allows to lock at any degree position.


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## Dcase

David, my box is the same way. There are machined stops for the common angles and anything else can be locked in place by a lever.


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## dbray45

You know, I was looking at the original Langdon design from 1875 and I think the lever was there when MF made it for Langdon. I have MF one the Sears contracted as a Craftsman (1960s) - As a backup saw, I found an original Langdon saw made by Disston between 1875 and 1885 - or something like that. They never changed the design much at all.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Exactly that. On the MF I had, didn't work too well. It does on my 80s Craftsman:










And does on the G-P as well:










Funny thing is, the Stanley SW 346 doesn't have the capability at all…


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## Dcase

The angle locking lever works really well on my MF box. My only complaint would be that the lever is under the box so you have to reach under to lock it.

My box also came with the original stop for cutting pieces all the same length as well as the crown molding attachment which is used to hold the crown moldings at the right angle. I have never used the crown molding thing but I use the stop all the time. I will try and take some more pictures of my box tonight.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kewl!


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## Dennisgrosen

huuu nice mitters 

I have one of the modern :-( it cut nice and clean …. but .. but …. but it screams like hell
yes its a non powered tool

I like the craftmanssaw Raceglenn posted that most be the closed place for to look in Germany
for one of the old ones 

thanks for sharing foks …... now my weekend is ruined with sleepless nights :-(

Dennis


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## bandit571

I did find a use for one of my miter boxes….









Just think, i have a "newer" all yellow Stanley that can hold three saws this way. Saws were getting a new finish on them….


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is awesome, love it!


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## donwilwol

now see, I would have listed that miter box as a useless tool had I not seen bandits post.


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## affyx

rescued from the rain at the flea market this morning; $5 invested thus far, will take a stab at restoring in the spring. Stanley 360a with WarrentedvSuperior backsaw approx 26×6 saw plate


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## superdav721

Good luck JC and show us some pictures when you get it done.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, JC… Looks like the previous "craftsman" actually slide the angle with the saw in the 'down' position more than once! Ouch!

She's lucky you have her, now… Ditto to pics!


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## affyx

yes the poor thing was abused, it'll be worth a few hours work to see if she can be saved

based on an hour or so with Mr. Google, I think these are from the 50s, not as nice as the 358 or earlier 360 with cast feet and a nicer length stop (both are stamped steel on the A)

The backsaw is just massive, I can't wait to see what's under that rust.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You at least have the nicer quality, flanged saw guides. Those disappeared soon after your model, I think.


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## donwilwol

I'd say it was $5 well spent.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

+1 to what Don said.


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## superdav721

yoda spoke


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## DanKrager

I have one of those! Only mine has a single post at each end like the manual shows. Great setup and I find it quite accurate with well sharpened saw. 
I put mine on a board with extensions and stops and behind the guide I put a pair of blocks with slots to hold the saw during transportation.
Nice buy and good luck with restoration. Looking to see the result.
DanK


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## affyx

thanks - Dan can you post a pic (or 3) of yours?


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## DanKrager

Yes. To my dismay I found it in this condition. I think the chemical I'm using to de-rust is not desireable for this. Its vapors caused this I'm sure. We spray it on concrete pump trucks to derust them so I thought ….



























DanK


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## affyx

Dan, that's a nice board you made for it - thanks for posting the pics


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## LeChuck

Hey, reviving this thread to ask if one of you would be selling a (vintage) miter box…

I decided I need something for good crosscuts and miters, and I don't want to buy a powered miter saw. I'm thinking about an old Stanley 358…with a smooth and sharp saw. Another advantage is that young kids can use it relatively safely.

I used to have a modern Jorgensen and I don't want another one of those


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## dbray45

Watch fleabay - I watch for them there.

As for the saws, I have a couple. One of them really needs to be jointed and retoothed because it is not square with the spine. Happens when sharpened several times and not paying attention.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Craigslist is another decent place to look for mitre boxes. Not a bad choice that you're looking for, either.


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## planepassion

LeChuck, I've picked up my miter boxes up at estate sales and garage sales. These venues have reasonable prices, $7-$25 for me, you get to inspect the boxes for missing/damaged parts AND you avoid the exorbitant shipping costs that come with buying one on Ebay.

If you lived on the east coast, I'd say, you've got lots to choose from when you go the local purchase path. However, Tucson AZ isn't exactly vintage tool heaven. That said, AZ IS a retirement community magnet, and when men retire, they often bring their tools with them. So, I've had decent luck rust hunting when I've been there visiting family. Definitely check out Craig's list, not just for Tucson, but also Phoenix and I predict you'll score a good box.


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## LeChuck

Yeah, I watch eBay but it gets tiring. As for CL, it's really poor for woodworkers out here in my opinion. There is rarely anything interesting (I check out CL multiple times a day). I don't do estate or garage sales, I simply don't have the time and it's not my thing. I wish there was a bit more to be found around here but everything is rare and overpriced. People will post their stuff without changing the prices for months, literally, you can remember almost every single item in the tools classifieds after a while. Antique shops are way overpriced and the stuff just doesn't renew often. So back to eBay


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wonder how JC is making out on that refurb above?

LeChuck, wish I had something for you that I knew you'd want. What I do have is one of the later model Sears / Craftsman boxes as pictured above that I'd be willing to part with. The one of them is very complete. Not the best looker, but does a fine job of cutting and scratches the itch of having a hand mitre box. Shouldn't be too much in shipping, if you're at all interested send me a PM and we'll talk. No big deal if not. Hope you find what you're looking for; an accurate mitre is a great thing.


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## LeChuck

Thanks Smitty, I'll probably hold out a bit for an older 358.

I was looking at one on eBay, planning to bid close to the end, and it went from about $100 to…....$295 plus shipping. I don't know what fool decided to get into a bidding war over that, but it is in no way worth that kind of money even if it's nice. Some folks are a bit crazy. I'll watch out for the right one, or think about the Craftsman 

What's the next old tool that Chris Schwarz is going to make an article on? With some insider info, one could stock up and make a killing.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

$295?? Holy Crap!

Check out this StL-area listing in CL (search CL by ID…)

Posting ID: 3476452505

I'd be willing to play middle man if needed…


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## theoldfart

Smitty,I have a GP similar to yours. The saw is a Simmonds (way better than a Diston !) badged for GP. Any idea where to find the coping attachment?
PS my neighbor found it for me for $25 bucks.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Coping attachment? What is this attachment of which you speak??


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## theoldfart

it allows you to hold a piece of molding at an angle to the back of the box. It fits into the same fitting as the repeatable length stop and has a post that stands straight up. I'm guessing my terminology may be bit off!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, those parts we talked about above, in this thread. Brad (I believe) also posted on the G-P, and was going to machine the parts of which you speak. I'm hoping someday it comes to pass. I look all the time for them on the flea-bay, but I'm convinced if folks have them, they have no idea what they are.

The absolute dimensions of said parts are documented here in LJs, though. Separate thread. If you find it, I'll add the link to the main post above for easy future reference…


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## theoldfart

Thanks, I'll try to post a couple of pics. Mine is identical to your pics except for the Simonds vs Disston.


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## theoldfart

BTW there is a museum here in Western Mass that is basically a collection of Langdon, Gooddell-Pratt, Millers Falls and other local firms. I'm thinking of doing some research there on these boxes


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## paratrooper34

theoldfart, where is this museum? I live in Western MASS and would like to check it out.


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## LeChuck

Yeah, 295. Seems like bidding frenzy to me. I don't do that on eBay. I bid the max I would be ready to pay for something and be done. If someone else gets it for an extra dollar, so be it.


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## donwilwol

and I'm just over the border in NY and didn't know about it.


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## theoldfart

Mike, it's in Greenfield and is open by appointment only. I'll get the info shortly.


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## affyx

Smitty, I haven't done much, too cold for electrolysis, but eBay bidding wars re a nice incentive!

- JC


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## theoldfart

MY GP


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## theoldfart

Mike and Don W check this link out
http://industrialhistory.org
kevin


----------



## Mosquito

Now that I've got my post drill, I'm on the active hunt for a miter box
-

Kevin, that looks great


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

OF, that's beautiful! You have the stop pieces, you dog!!! Man, serious envy here. Wow…


----------



## LeChuck

Hey Smitty, sent you a PM.


----------



## theoldfart

Chris, been having inappropriate dreams about having a post drill. Is it a MF? My neighbor has one stashed in his shop and has been telling me about it for years.


----------



## donwilwol

Kevin, thanks for the link. I'm going to have to make a trip out there this summer.


----------



## CL810

The middle number of the model number refers to depth of the saw below the back: 358 = 5". But does that mean a saw with only 4" won't work in a 358?


----------



## Mosquito

not sure what it is yet. There's no maker mark on it that I've found, but there's a few numbers. I may look into it in the next couple of days.


----------



## runswithscissors

I had one with the tensioned narrow blade, but don't recall the blade. I alway wanted to make it work better, but found it challenging to take off another 1/32" off a miter. I like to creep up on miters, if you know what I mean.

But it occurred to me, they would be great for slicing bread. I think of that every time I'm slicing a big, crusty loaf of fresh bread. They'd leave some crumbs, but the fine teeth would help minimize that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Runswith


----------



## CL810

Will a mitre saw with only 4" below the back work in a Stanley 358? I believe the '5' in the model number references the depth of cut, that is 5" below the back, that the miter saw box is for but I don't know if a '4' will work or not.

Anybody??


----------



## LeChuck

Get a load of this one:

http://r.ebay.com/ZcuziP


----------



## CL810

It does inlcude shipping.


----------



## affyx

free shipping! woot!


----------



## Nighthawk

Use to have a hand mitre box saw set up then I bought a mitre drop saw…!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy crap, that $2,500 buy it now is hard to resist, ain't it??

Come back to the darkside, Nighthawk!


----------



## LeChuck

Yeah, I'm thinking of selling my car for that miter box!


----------



## dbray45

Well, he says it is hard for him to part with - doubt if he will part with it. He also states that you wouldn't find this one in your neighbor's yard sale - got that right (neighbors are smarter than that to buy at that price).

Just sayin


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

$2,500 must be for the psychologist appoints he's planning, to treat separation anxiety.


----------



## planepassion

I've got to thing that the poster misplaced a decimal point. Even at $250 he's pushing it, but $2,500 is just loopy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Almost sent him that question, but just didn't want to poke at him…


----------



## LeChuck

Well, it was a difficult decision but I decided to pass on the $2500 one, but I did end up finding and buying a Craftsman 3650 at a price that I could live with. Seemingly from the late 30s, a rebadged Langdon Acme (with bearings I think). It doesn't have all of the stops and stuff but that I'm sure I can rig some of that myself if needed. Seems complete otherwise and just in need of cleanup and de-rusting. Except the saw itself which probably has a bend, but I can always find a better one later if needed. Photos when it arrives


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

David - Congrats! With bearings would be a neat find, looking forward to the pics!!


----------



## gawthrrw

Interesting thread. I have been looking for one of these for a while now. I found a few in antique stores but they seem to be missing pieces. Will be following this one.


----------



## planepassion

Here's a shot of my user Ingersoll-Rand No. 1124 miterbox…at least until I equip my Goodell Manufacturing Co. miterbox with a suitable miter saw. It cuts accurately and is pretty solid. But no frills nor accoutrements.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice, Brad. Incredibly clean tool, that one is. And seriously, the bells and whistles really only add parts that get lost, I think. When I need repeating cuts on smaller parts, for example, I clamp a stop block in place vs. the extension rod that used to ship with many of these boxes. Won't stop me from trying to find the parts, of course, but you know what I mean.


----------



## planepassion

Yes, I picked it up at Old Towne Arvada's flea-market sale for $15.00. Looks to be from after 1962 when Millers Falls became a division of Ingersoll Rand. The Disston's medallion pegs it in the 1953-1955 era.

It was in such good shape at such a good price that I couldn't pass it up. And you're right about the extension rods and other accessories. I secure material using clamps so that it doesn't move while sawing it. And stop-blocks are second nature now. Though it's a problem when cutting miters. I have to flip the workpiece over to maintain proper-fitting miters.


----------



## Mike2013

Question:

It looks like some of the original mitre boxes (i.e. Stanley, Langdon, Miller's Falls) allow you to lock to any a degree of arc, however, I read an article from Ron Hermon in Popular Woodworking from sometime ago that seemed to suggest that some models only lock to 45, 60, and 90.

In fact, Smitty_Cabinetshop…I picked up that new Stanley thinking that I could lock the guide to lets say a 46 or 47 degree angle, and found that you can only lock in to certain degrees (45, 60, 90, etc).

This seems to be a problem when doing trim carpentry since you can run into so many oustide corners that are not clean 90 degree angles.

I am fairly new to carpentry, so maybe I am missing a trick of the trade…But my assumption is that these earlier models allow you a wider range of degree angle settings and that the tool is the issue.

I guess my question is, does anyone relate to what I am saying and can they give me guidance re: mitre saw selection and/or technique when it comes to mitreing an outside corner that may be in fact 91 or 92 degrees and not a perfect corner?

Thanks!


----------



## LeChuck

For those who have a Langdon/Millers Falls style box that has a metal bed and a metal channel instead of a wood board, do you find that to be a problem? In particular for the quality of cut and tearout at the bottom?


----------



## ksSlim

Mike, it takes a little math but you can do it.

Start by using a piece paper large enough to draw a circle with the radius equal to the distance from the "save edge" of the saw blade.

by laying out the various cardinal angles, one can determine how far to adjust the blad per degree.


----------



## Dcase

Mike, I have a Langdon MF miter box and it has machined locks/stops at the common angles. However there is a manual lock on it so that you can lock it in at any angle you want.

There are a lot of Stanley & Langdon style miter boxes out there and you can usually find them for cheap. I would assume all the miter boxes with this style will lock at any angle you want it to. Doing carpentry your best bet is to get a good block plane. That way you can plane the trim to fit.

LeChuck, I cut a piece of 3/4" MDF to fit my Langdon box and I use that as a sub (zero clearance) base when I am working with small and or thin pieces. I have found that it helps a lot with supporting the work piece. I just clamp the MDF base on with a couple small clamps. When cutting thicker/larger pieces I don't have any issues with the open space.

BTW.. This may have been brought up on this forum already but did you see that LN now makes custom size saws for the old miter boxes… My miter saw still has a ton of life left but part of me wants to order a custom made LN saw for my box.


----------



## donwilwol

David, why would the channel substrate change the cut? I guess i don't understand.

Mike, I had to go look. My Langdon doesn't lock at off angles but that wouldn't stop you from cutting at one. Its not like a chop saw where it will jump around when you hit the switch.


----------



## LeChuck

Don, for the same reason that we use zero clearance inserts on table saws, backing boards etc…to reduce tearout.

Dan, thanks, I wasn't even thinking of small pieces and realize that now, so that's definitely something I would do at least for that purpose.


----------



## donwilwol

I just through a sacrifice piece down if i need it.


----------



## theoldfart

I just milled a small strip to fit in the slot of my GP. I thought I heard someone say that it originally came with a wood filler. When I first started using the mitre box I managed to run the saw into the metal channel


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mike - Dan's suggestion of a block plane is a very good one. The other suggestion I'd make it the use of shim(s) along the back wall of the box.

Fart, may want to set the posts to accomodate the deeper steel you have below the spine of your saw. That'll keep it from hitting the metal channel when it bottoms out.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This ring / lever on the G-P does indeed hold the angle where ever it is.










There are presets, but this is aside from that.

Fart, here are the post 'stand - offs' that can (should) be set to keep the saw from bottoming out.


----------



## planepassion

Thanks Smitty. I didn't know that our Goodel. miter boxes had that feature. It makes sense given the arc of a meter measured in degrees…but it's good to know that we can lock it down.

I have a line on a 26" x 5" miter saw and hope to have it in my hands come Tuesday. If all goes well, I'll switch my Goodell out for the Ingersoll Rand by week's end and have something to report here.


----------



## b2rtch

The asking price for this saw is $25.00.
Is it worth is?
It seems to be in excellent shape. 
Is this a Stanley?
Thank you.
Bert


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The saw is a dead ringer for a couple of Craftsman mitre box saws I have. The channel that's visible on the left of the saw's bed should have a sliding bar in it that is used to hold trim, for example, at a 45 to the back wall of the mitrebox.

All that said, is it a Stanley? The collars that slide up and down will have Stanley embossed in them. Cant tell by the grainy picture. Might be, because the styling is very consistent with a late model Stanley box. Is it worth $25? That's totally up to you, Bert. It's not a gouging price, that much is sure.


----------



## DanKrager

Bert, This looks a lot like mine, probably older. The base seems to be Stanley and the saw is probably Warranted Superior. I wouldn't sell mine for $25.
DanK


----------



## b2rtch

Thank you guys.
Some body else has a very similar miter box for sale and the asking price is $150.00!


----------



## planepassion

Hey guys, I just re-read Ron Herman's "The Forgotten Miter Box," article in Popular Woodworking Magazine's November 2010 issue. Picked up this little tidbit. I didn't know that the hole in the spine toe was so that you could place a cotter pin in it--I thought it was a hanging hole.

The problem I've had on my Ingersoll-Rand miter box with 21" Disston backsaw is that the toe would sometimes come out of the guide housing on the pull stroke. I've solved this problem by putting a cotter pin into the hole.










Interestingly, the main photo of Herman's article features an Intergsoll-Rand miterbox that looks just like mine. And the saw, upon closer inspection is sporting a cotter pin at the toe.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That'd also be smart if you're picking up the box and moving it around the jobsite all… Saw won't fall out!

Good find. I'll check my saws for such a hole.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, this is two ads circa 1927 and 1930 for the GP mitre box. Look familiar?
http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/ads/display_ad.php?picture_file=GP2.jpg
http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/ads/display_ad.php?picture_file=GP4.jpg
kevin
ps still trying to get some info on the Simonds saw vs a Diston. Literature os plentiful on the Diston and even the Harvey Peace saw, however I seem to have an orphan!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"...can be locked at any angle…"

That says it all!  Cool ad!


----------



## theoldfart

Just found out that the Langdon box started out in Northampton, MA just down the street from me. They got bought out by Goodell Pratt and they in turn got eaten by Millers Falls who then was eaten by ….......
DonW and Paratrooper all this info can be had at the museum I posted earlier


----------



## donwilwol

Here is the complete history of Millers Falls, http://oldtoolheaven.com/history/history.htm


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## theoldfart

If you hit the Millers Falls home button it will bring you to a page with both Goodell and Langdon buttons, Click on them and you get their histories as well. They credit The Museum of Our Industrial Heritage, for info as well
kevin


----------



## LeChuck

Do you guys feel that a 28 inch saw (blade length) is too big and inconvenient in use (space usage) or useful?


----------



## ksSlim

Some folks would say "longer the stroke the better the bloke".


----------



## LeChuck

Hehe, thanks for that one


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bigger mouldings to cut, bigger saw is useful. As in, 6 in. or more. That's a big saw, and you'll need space for it. I just did a bit of shop re-org tonight to bring my mitre boxes closer to the bench. Plenty of room for them now.


----------



## JoeLyddon

Very nice!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Why thank you, Joe!


----------



## LeChuck

I wouldn't be cutting mouldings and the saw would be 5 inch below the spine, or so, but just wondering about the length…longer seems better but I'm wondering where I'll put it…


----------



## JoeLyddon

Smitty… You are Welcome!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Take the saw out, hang it all the wall. I don't store mitre saws in the box, that's asking for damage. You can just barely seen the mungo Stanley saw on the wall, behind the wall-mount box in the pic above… That's were it is now, before it was on the back wall, in the dead center of this pic.


----------



## LeChuck

Yeah, that's true. I just like to have a permanent location for tools like that but I guess this just takes too much space.


----------



## planepassion

Smitty, my garage shop isn't roomy enough really for a dedicated miter box space. So I'm toying with mounting the box to 3/4" plywood and adding a cleat so that I can secure it in my workbench front vise. Perhaps even adding a hole to serve as a carrying handle.

By chance, has anyone else done anything similar and if so would you share pictures of your design?

P.S. the 28" x 5" Disston (branded for a Langdon miter box) saw arrived and I'm in the process of rehabbing it now. She's a beaut. But at 28" it IS a long saw. I like the depth a lot because I can deliver a full stroke without pulling the toe out of its housing. Moreover, I can engage a lot more teeth in the cutting.


----------



## racerglen

Brad I mounted my Craftsman to plywood, just screwed on, no cleat so I can 
put it on other surfaces as needed.
I just clamp the plywood down when it's going into service.
Sorry no pics, at (work?)
;-)


----------



## donwilwol

I plan to do the same, just haven't got to it yet. So far I've just been clamping it to the bench.


----------



## carguy460

Brad - my Langdon box was mounted to some ply, along with some door hinges for a fold-up underneath a workbench design. I'll get pics tonight, because it is an interesting idea…this was done by my grandfather, likely in the early 50's. He also put a slot in there to store the saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brad - In #178 above you can see the G-P on the wall, under the cabinet. It's on a solid wood base, sitting on a shelf. When I need it, down comes the saw and the box, with the base clamped to the benchtop (end vise and bench dog). I don't have the space for a dedicated mitre station either.

I had another base made that had a smaller 'cleat' set into a dado across the front of the box base, so it'd work like a bench hook, but I ended up clamping it anyway so got rid of that extra mass and use straight boards now.


----------



## planepassion

Hmmmm. Smitty, your solution sounds simpler. Still, I want to hear about & see pictures of, other people's approach to the problem. It would be good to have that on this thread for posterity.

I appreciate your sharing your experience with the cleat. I like to get "reports from the field" from fellow LJs about things like this. Similar to the Tool well, yes or no forum topic I posted a while ago.

So after mounting the box to a 3/4" plywood base, I can then either clamp it to the top of my workbench (clunky and mixed results for me,) or secure it via the face vise using bench dogs.

The latter option sounds better to me because in addition to securing it tightly, the box will sit a few inches off the front of my bench. That will help overcome any issues with the 28" deep saw hitting the wall on the push stroke.


----------



## donwilwol

Brad, I had a grinder once with 2 pegs in the base so it sat in the dog holes. I can't think of a reason that wouldn't work the same for the miter.

I like this question, because I wasn't sure how I was going to mount mine either.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Couldn't agree more, hope others contribute their experiences as well!

The cleat on the base I described was secured to the bench via leg vise. I liked it, but not that much as it lifted the back of the base from the benchtop. Almost like I needed a tighter angle to the cleat than a straight 90, if that makes sense.

Pegs is a good idea. How did you put it on a shelf when not in use?


----------



## donwilwol

i let it set crooked.


----------



## dbray45

Mine is screwed down to a piece of plywood as well and clamped as required.


----------



## carguy460

Ok, sorry for the bad pics, I don't have time to clean everything off and apply proper lighting…

This was my grandfathers miter box setup…screwed/bolted to thin plywood with some spacers to create a slot for the saw to be stored in. Hinges are on the bottom of the setup, leading me to believe it was a fold under the bench mount…however, he was a union trim carpenter (if I recall) in Kansas City, so it could have been mounted to a toolbox lid…I wish I knew, but he died in '66, so I couldn't ask these crucial questions…



















I like the hinged flip up idea, assuming I had a place for it to be hinged…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love the saw storage. Looks like an All-Steel MF mitre… Very cool!


----------



## DanKrager

If you look back in this thread, I posted pic of my Stanley miter saw on a double plywood base that allows out riggers to slide to the left and to the right to offer support for long stock. There is also a pop up stop on each of those out riggers. The saw is stored vertically (as in on its teeth) in a notched wooden block at toe and heel and held in place for travel with a spring loaded chain over the back. The base can be clamped to a top or locked between dogs.
DanK


----------



## planepassion

CarGuy thanks for sharing. It's cool to see how the old timers constructed their mobile work stations. The slot for the saw makes sense.


----------



## carguy460

Yeah, I really like how he did that with the saw storage. I wish I could have seen it mounted with the hinges. I really need to take them off because it makes the box tilt when I use it on my bench, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm thinking I might want to actually mount it this way someday…hmmm…

On another note, last night I was looking at this setup again and noticed that the "plywood" looked different, almost like it was 2 1/8" pieces of wood glued together…I guess I don't know that much about the history of plywood, was 1/4" ply ever made from just 2 plies?

I need to inspect more closely tonight…again…


----------



## theoldfart

My late entry to storage. In the shop my saws stay in the chest:









For travel I have a guard ( translation , a kerf in a piece of scrap):








Not quite as elegant as some but it serves.
Kevin


----------



## planepassion

That's a pretty saw Kevin. Can't have anything happening to the teeth now can we.

Your tool chest came out quite nicely.


----------



## LeChuck

My Craftsman miter box just arrived yesterday. I haven't had time for photos. Had to sweep and clean my workshop and pick up a whole big bag full of chips before the supposed rains today (water tends to get under my garage door so I didn't want a soup in there). Plus I didn't get the saw yet. It will probably arrive today but I also had a Disston on order that will arrive today as well.

Anyway, it looks nice and tight. All the bearings are there. One of the vertical stops is missing, and the long stop bar is missing as well. That doesn't seem too big of a deal. The 0 degree stop is really tight with no movement but there's a bit of slop at other positions like the 45 degree ones. I need to see if I can fix that. I wonder if I'm going to restore it or not. I kinda like the old patina but then again I could derust, clean and polish all the moving parts and what I can remove (a bit hesitant to take the under carriage apart except for a few nuts and bolts), especially the posts, as that would probably make it work smoothly.

Can't wait to put this to use.


----------



## LeChuck

A usage guide for the Millers Falls boxes:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-borTools/MillersFalls/pubs/mf-MiterBoxes/MF-MiterBox-HowTo.asp


----------



## LeChuck

Here it is before I start fiddling with it…


----------



## theoldfart

David, guide bearings in working order? Mine only has the threaded holes on the top of the posts.
Kevin


----------



## LeChuck

Yah, all 4 bearings are there. It seems to work pretty well, but needs a cleaning.


----------



## LeChuck

Actually I just realized as I was taking it apart, that there are 6 top bearings, 3 in each post. I thought the very top one were just screws at first.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

David, that box rocks!!! Very sweet find, bro, I love it!!!!


----------



## LeChuck

Thanks  I'm happy about it. I've got a few parts in evapo-rust right now and can't wait to use it. Maybe this weekend…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That fat knob at the end of the tension rod is totally unique…


----------



## LeChuck

It's actually flat-ish. It locks very tight and easily at 0 degrees. It also locks well at all intermediate angles. I need to figure out how to have less slop at 45.


----------



## CL810

Has anyone used a Stanley 150? I was reading about it on the Bad Axe website.

How does it perform?


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Can anybody tell me anything about this one? It's a Millers Falls. I already emailed him and told him that I'd take it, for $20 I figure I can't go wrong, no idea on the saw. I've had my eye out for a better older miter box like this one, although I have no idea how old this is, it looks better than the new junk at the box stores.

http://fargo.craigslist.org/tls/3689553815.html


----------



## Mosquito

funny enough I was just looking at that one since I'll be in Fargo this weekend lol

I don't really have any info on it, but for $20 I think you're right, can't go wrong.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's a new MF than I've seen, but then I've not seen a gaggle of them. And what Mos says, for $20 you can't go wrong…


----------



## donwilwol

Christ, the saw is worth $20. It looks newer than mine but pretty close. You'll probably find some info on my blog.


----------



## planepassion

GlennsG, it looks just like my Ingersol- Rand (Millers Falls) miter box. Mine is a model #1124 and was probably manufactured in the early 1980s. I picked it up for $15 several years ago and have mounted it to one of my bench tops. I use it all the time and it works pretty well. I love the box body because it's very solid and easy to clamp workpieces to while cutting. The saw in your picture looks shorter…and so is my saw. So there is a hole in the tip where I put a cotter pin to keep the saw from slipping out of its guides.


----------



## planepassion

It occurs to me that I never posted my "after" pics for the question I posed about mounting my miter box.




























You can also read about the restoration of my Goodell Manufacturing Co. miterbox here.


----------



## GlennsGrandson

Thanks a lot guys!

Hopefully I get it soon and can put up some before/after pictures!


----------



## GlennsGrandson

What makes this setup so special? Is it the combination of Langdon and Disston? Is it the immaculate filing on the saw? Is it the great condition?

Even if it is all of the above, why is it worth $500+?!

Ebay Miter box & Saw - scroll down from the top to see the original listing


----------



## Airframer

I'm a little late to the party here but I'll bite…

Here is my humble little Stanley Miter Box and Saw. It is a newer model but I am loving it. It has a nice and long stroke and cuts fast and straight. Best of all is I paid next to nothing for it!


----------



## donwilwol

Grant, I don't know, but I hope you find out mine is worth $500 as well. I will probably have to sell it.


----------



## planepassion

Yikes $500+ for a vintage miterbox? Seriously? If memory serves, that seller gets lots of bidders. And I believe he does sharpen the saws he sells. Like Don, I don't know. The etching on the saw is there, but faint. Is the Millers Falls Langdon miterbox 1124 that rare?

Airframer, vintage…newer…just-got-it-yesterday…it doesn't matter. What really matters is how accurate the cuts are. And how easy it is to use. It's hard to pass up "next to nothing" for payment. And it looks sturdier than my first miterbox, the Nobex from Lee Valley.

I haven't been able to get it to cut smoothly at all. It "catches" in the cut and is near impossible to cycle back and forth without any issues. I don't know if it's a matter of tension on the top bar…or if the blade is facing the wrong way or what, I just can't get the thing to perform. It cuts square, just not easily.


----------



## Airframer

I have found that if I try to force the saw to cut it will hang up but, if you just move the saw back and forth and just let the saw do the cutting it goes nice and smooth. It's kind of a hand saw trainer of sorts I guess lol.

Good to know Lee Valley has a similar saw. I wonder if their blades would fit the Stanley version?


----------



## CL810

Here's what arrived today.



















No bearings. Does anyone have pics of what kind of bearing I'm looking for?

Also, there is only one rod and no stop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Airframer, good to hear you have good results with that mitre. And I agree it's all about moving the saw vs. cutting wood with these boxes. Let the saw do the work.

Cl810, that's a nice edition of the Stanley mitre! So you have a length of stop rod? That's cool. I've taken apart the frames on mine, no bearings in either frame there. Did yours have a saw with it?

Here's something I'd not seen before in person, so naturally it followed me home: a folding mitre box..


----------



## DocBailey

CL810
Are you saying you don't have any bearings in the uprights? (these would be the bearings upon which the underside of the saw's spine ride).
*IF* that's what you're after, they are hardened steel wheels, held in place by a screw. Each upright has (2) one fore and one aft. You can see one in this photo.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice pic, Doc! Thanks!


----------



## CL810

*Doc* - yes, that's exactly what I meant. Thanks for the pic. I knew there were suppose to be bearings inside but had no idea how.

*Smitty* it did not come with a saw but I had picked this one up several months ago and have been looking for a 246 since then.


----------



## planepassion

CL, having the saw and finding a matching miterbox is much easier in my experience than the reverse. You've got a really good looking saw there.


----------



## CL810

*Doc* - Well, upon examination there may not be bearings in the uprights. There are no screw holes like in your pic.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^That's a familiar sight to me as well.


----------



## 69BBNova

This is my first miter box, picked it up 3-4 hrs ago…

It was close enough that I drove plus it was easy to get there…

I havent done any cleaning at all, after I figured out how to release the blade (lol) while looking it over I noticed the guide bearings and sleeves on the rear bars couldent be moved at all…

I took some Starrett M1 lubricant and sprayed some on a couple of times then went out for a while came back and lightly tapped them with a drift punch and tiny ballpeen, came loose no problem with no binding at all, The blade is still very sharp and looks dead straight…

I'm looking foward to trying it on something.

$12 and one cigarrette going.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Brad. You just have to have patience which I don't have much of but I'm learning!

*Smitty*, I guess it's just metal on metal for us?


----------



## DocBailey

CL810 & Smitty
I guess you really do learn something new everyday (if you're paying attention)-I've got more than a couple mitre boxes, but apparently none of my Stanleys are of the vintage you two seem to have. Have a look at the two images below from Stanley catalogs. The first is from 1953 (note feature No 2); now try to find it on the 1934 catalog page.


----------



## CL810

Ineresting. I wonder how critical the bearings are.


----------



## chrisstef

You guys are gonna make me blow the dust off my stanley miter box and haul home my 28" disston saw thats been i nthe corner of my office for years. I know the miter box needs some serious love but you guys will talk me through it right?


----------



## bandit571

Just a post to get to the bottom of things here. i went from this as a "Mitersaw"









To buying a"new" blade for an older Disston/HK Porter saw









to the install in the tote.









Might be a better "fit" for that yellow miter box? Blade was about $6 or so.


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## CL810

"you guys will talk me through it right"

We'd be better buds if we talked you out of it! Another slippery slope.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Doc, that's good stuff there. Bearings are a later feature, clearly.

Stef, what's taking you so long?

Fine improvement, Bandit.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, and Nova- it's a fine box, I think. At least the one of them I have, is. Yeah, I have a mitrebox problem…


----------



## chrisstef

CL810 - youre right, you guys have been a terrible influence on me, and my wallet.

Smit - i wish i had a solid answer for that buit im lacking such a response. Lazy, inundated, slacker all come to mind . I got it years ago from my uncle, where he got, it lord only knows. I honestly think its missing a few parts but im sure you guys will know more than i will. As for the Disston saw, she needs a cleaning and a bit of Andy's touch to bring her back to life. Its one honkin chunk of spring steel thats for sure.


----------



## Dal300

You guys are also a bad influence on me!

I bought this little item the other day:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hey, looks like my little folder in Post #225!! 

Edit- what is the pin for? Hold the leaves straight?


----------



## DocBailey

A few more observations on bearings (or the lack thereof) ...

We don't know when they first appeared, but it's a cinch the boxes were made for decades without them and worked just fine. In bearing-equipped boxes it appears the main bearing surface bears against the underside of the saw's spine (rather than bearing against the saw plate so as to eliminate/reduce side-to-side movement).
If that's the case, the bearings seem almost superfluous, since when the box is in use, the weight of the saw is borne by the wood being sawed. The uprights serve only to keep the saw perpendicular to the workpiece, and at the correct angle.
One other thought - it may well be possible (and knowing Stanley's penchant for re-using tooling, probable) that if desired, one might be able to swap the saw guide cylinders for later (bearing-equipped) models.


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## Dal300

Smitty- The rod is like you said, to keep the leaves from folding.
It's suppose to be brass and this one may be. I haven't stuck a magnet on it yet.

I have 3 or 4 of these in various stages of decomp. I just wanted a whole one.

They were made by the Alaska Refrigerator Company.


----------



## CL810

Doc, good idea on the parts swap. Adding that to my list.


----------



## LeChuck

On mine, with the bearings, the saw has very little to absolutely no side movement. Per what I've seen from the store, this makes a much more precise 90 or angled cut than your average power miter saw. That said with mine, it seems that the sawing becomes really hard at some point, especially when reaching the bottom of the piece of wood (it makes it a bit difficult since my miter box is not yet attached to anything). It's perhaps due to some binding of the spine, or maybe it is due to the fact that the saw needs to be sharpened. I do not yet have enough experience with hand saws to be sure.

The smoothness of the cut itself is not that good in my opinion, where my Harbor Freight bought ryoba saw or my dozuki have a much, much smoother cut, so perhaps this still points to the saw needing some sharpening.

The miter box needs some tweaking, in particular reaching the point where the saw can use all of its weight, without binding of the posts, and yet stay up when set to the high position.


----------



## planepassion

LeChuck, the smoothness (or lack thereof) could be a function of the rake and fleam versus the sharpness. After sharpening my primary mitersaw at 25 degrees rake and 30 degrees fleam it leaves a very smooth finish. Much more so than my backsaws with 15 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. If you turn your saw teeth up and look along the toothline you should see shiny "flats" atop the teeth if the saw is dull.


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## CL810

This site has some information on stanley miter boxes, parts for sell, manuals, instructions for reconstructing some parts, etc.


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## LeChuck

Thanks for the tips Brad. I'll check my saw. I am using an older Disston but I also have the "Warranted Superior" saw that came with the miter box, and I have not tried that one yet.


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## CL810

.


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## CL810

Finished reconditioning the 246 that I posted 9 days ago. Pretty happy with the result. Now I need to find a second rod and the length stop that goes on the rod. Check your junk drawers everyone and let me know if you have extras you can spare!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, Man, that's sweet!!


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## chrisstef

Splendid work Cl8.

So here i am, asking for mercy from the panel as i stand here ignorant on the ways of the hand mitre saw. I dug out what ive got. From looking around the net im missing a thumb screw but besides that the Stanley 150 is in good shape. Ill need a saw to go along with it. Something medium length with a 4" plate? Talk dirty to me.


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## BrandonW

Cl810, what a wonderful rehab you've done! That thing looks new!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I like the 150, it's one I'd like to take for a test run! But I confess to not having seen one in person, so hopefully there's an owner out there that will chime in.


----------



## JoeLyddon

Super JOB!

Super saw!

Thank you.


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## CL810

*Stef* - I just recently acquired a 150 but I have zero experience with it. This article on Bad Axe Saws' website might be of interest.


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## chrisstef

Much thanks for the article CL810. A $300 saw is just slightly outta the price range for a free mitre box but damn it would be nice. I might cut down a larger 24" Disston that i have kicking around. It coincidentally has 4.5" of depth that was used by Bad Axe as referenced in the article. Just the info i was lookin for brother.


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## CL810

I don't think I'd cut that saw down. At least not yet. His 20" comes up a little short I think.


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## 69BBNova

Picked up a miter box and a couple of handsaws today…

The box is a Millers Fall No.740, its definitly heavy it looked like cast iron before I even picked it up and I'm sure it is, I cant see a etch on the blade yet but the medalion says Warrented Superior…

The handsaws are Craftsman, I think they will be fine for my needs, 7pt rip and 9pt cc…

The blades are sharp and no kinks what so ever although the handsaw are slightly bowed but I think I'll be able to get them straight if I'm carefull.


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## theoldfart

FYI for Stanley mitre box owners in this months Leach tool list:
ST46 Stop assembly for the better quality Stanley miter boxes;
a pile of parts here that are rarely found as they often
got separated from the miter box when the shop was broken
up by the unknowing; if your miter box has some mysterious
holes and screw along the left/right edge, this is what
goes in it; bottom:
http://www.supertool.com/forsale/apr/t47.jpg 
PS just got the ECE 600 mm (23") turning saw w/extra tenon blade. To the man cave to make sawdust!


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## CL810

Am I reading the supertool list right? $65.00 for the length stop rods and coupler?? I didn't even pay that much for the 246 I just refurbed. Tell me, am I out of touch here or is that price crazy?


----------



## theoldfart

Couldn't tell you about the crazy part, but from what I've been hearing about the scarcity of small parts on the Langdon/MF/GP boxes Patrick's price may reflect that type of shortage. He is well regarded by most of the woodworking writers out there and I suspect a lot of us here have purchased tools from him at a reasonable cost.


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## CL810

There's a decent looking 346 on eBay.


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## planepassion

That 346 will play CL810. Could use some TLC from a patient LJ.

Just used my restored Goodell Manufacturing Co. miterbox on a box I'm building for a wedding gift. It cuts like butter (thanks Andy for the 25 degree rake + 30 degree fleam sharpening suggestion!) and I'm impressed with the accuracy of it-the miter angel along with the cut (the edge is square to the face.) I really, really, really love the length of the saw (28" or so) because I can take long strokes that make quick work of the cuts. And the weight of this beast means I can focus on moving the saw back and forth and letting it do all the work.

I did make one mistake with it. I was rotating the saw back and forth to the 45 degree settings to cut miters for the box base. I choose to do that rather than keeping the saw at one 45 degree angle and flipping the wood over to make matching miters. That way, the grain is consistent for the show side and I can also keep one true edge against the box fence.

Anyway, I moved the saw alll the way to the right side. As it turns out, I think that resulted in a 47 degree cut rather than 45. So I learned to use a light touch when swiveling the saw to the 45 degree angle so that it could "snap" into the pre-set 45 degree notch.

To clean up the angle, I used one of the cuttoffs as a 45 degree guide in combination with my shooting board. It worked perfectly and my dry assembly is showing tight miter joints for the first time since I've been cutting them. One small step for miter box, one giant leap for my woodworking skills…


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## 69BBNova

At Smittys request this is my Millers Fall no. 740 miter box, when I bought it, it came with a warrented superior saw which is straight and sharp, (haven't cleaned it yet at all)...

Yesterday I picked up the other miter saw even though they had the wrong maker on it, because I could make out a couple of letters here and there where they should be for a Disston, but when it was sharped they never heard of jointing it (no biggy)...

Today I started to clean up the plate a little and I found whats left of a Langdon Millers Fall etch…

The Miter box cost $25 and I paid $10 for the Disston saw.

I think I'm a pretty happy camper


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## CL810

Nova, it looks to me like you stole them! ;-) Be sure to show us the after pictures.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nova, that's an incredibly strong matchup, well done!! Thanks for the update, and like CL810 says, gotta see 'em cleaned up too!


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## planepassion

Nova, that looks like a monster saw. What's the depth under the spine? Length? And you did quite well in your purchase.


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## 69BBNova

Thanks everyone, believe me I was so happy when I saw the etch, from what little reading I've done its seems like its the "HOLY GRAIL" of miter saws…

The saw is 28" long. as it turns out Disston measures the entire length which actually extends under the handle. otherwise my 3 miters saw are all 26" at the tooth line…

The plate was a bit under 5" at the heel but that part was never sharpened, apparently he only sharpened the first 20-22" so of the plate therefore the toe has 4 1/4" left, and in the end thats what it will be.


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## CL810

Possible great buy on ebay


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## planepassion

Here are some action shots of my Goodell Manufacturing Co. miter box in action when I recently built a wedding box for my buddy's coming nuptials. The pics show me cutting the mitered frame pieces for the base. I like using my F clamps with the big rubber pads to secure the work so as not to mar the box.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good looking stuff, Brad!


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## 69BBNova

Did a little more cleaning on my Langdon Millers Fall saw…

When I start to restore my no. 740 miter box I'll post them both when their done…

The etch is showing up a little better also.


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## planepassion

Wow Nova, that's one monster of a saw. Is that the guts of a clock on the same counter as the saw?


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## Mosquito

I finally scored (I think) at one of the antique shops I go to on a semi frequent basis. Lots of planes that are priced fair compared to eBay prices, but more than I'd want to. But, I was really tempted by a picture frame saw (only cuts 45's) but at $150 I walked away. Then I saw a Lakeside by Wards Master miter saw. Marked $195. Yeah right. Then noticed the "Quick Sale Price" of $75. Hmmm, maybe. Then when I was inspecting it, a guy walked by and said "Oh, all the Jenn and Randy stuff is 15% off with cash, and 10% off with credit card". 15% off of $75; $63.75 well…..

Ok, it followed me home.









The etch is still somewhat legible, and I saw a "No. 84 - 50" on it. Anyone have any thoughts or information in it? The box looks pretty similar to what Brad posted earlier


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## planepassion

Hey Mos. Gonna need more pics. The etching on the saw and closeups of the miter box. If it's a Goodell miterbox the saw guideposts should have markings on them. Might have to work away some of the rust to see it if it's obscuring your view. Congratulations brother! Getting the box along with its saw is a good play. How long is the saw? How deep?


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## Mosquito

I hope to get better pictures up tomorrow, but I got a few more cellphone pictures tonight. I didn't see anything marked on the posts, it's just the design that looks similar


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks G-P-inspired, but can't see the lever that releases and ses cutting angle(s). Good looking box, though! And saw! How does it cut?


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## Mosquito

That's where it differs a bit. The locking lever is a flat lever underneath one of the posts, and there's a lever further back to tighten it down and lock it in place (apart from just the detent that the first lever uses).

Haven't had a chance t use it yet :-/


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## 69BBNova

Good eye Brad…

Yes they are, from a 1920s cast iron case 2 chime ansonia…

Second clock i've ever got working but had a bit of a disaster. The second time I pulled it apart I hadent properly let down a main spring and some gears got damaged (chime side)...

But it was a blessing because this time I checked the mainsprings and I gave up counting how many hairline cracks after about 18". Both are bad…

If it had happened while it was assembled I do think it could have been far worse (just guessing here).


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## BrandonW

Are there any new miter boxes that are any good? I know that Highland Woodworking carries the Nobex miter boxes/saws, but I don't know anything about them. Are there other companies making them? I know Lie-Nielsen has hinted that it's in the works, but nothing yet.


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## Mosquito

Jorgensen makes some similar to the Nobex miter boxes. I've tried one (Jorgenen) and would say don't bother. I'm not a fan of it, and I am not a fan of the small (hack saw style) saw blade. I had a hard time with it deflecting and making a non-straight cut. Which sort of defeats the purpose of buying in the first place…


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## BrandonW

That was my suspicion, Mos. I'll probalby have to just buy a decent vintage one. I had a lower-end, but antique, Stanley one, but I took it apart and never put it back together again and I'm not sure it's worth it.


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## Kreegan

I have the Nobex Champion miter box with the Japanese style blade. I keep intending to write a review of it, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Overall, it's an excellent tool, very accurate, easy to setup and adjust. I've used it for a lot of 90* and 45* cuts in a variety of woods. I haven't had a chance to try the compound miter function yet. I only have 2 real complaints with it. The plastic handle on one of the clamps on the back broke the first time I used it, but it's entirely possible that was my fault for applying too much pressure. The other clamp is fine. And the saw is a bit lightweight in terms of mass. I always have to clamp it to my bench or it dances around when I use it. On a star scale, I'd give it a 4 out of 5.


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## Mosquito

Might give it a quick touch up sharpening, but overall I think it worked quite well. Set it for 45 degrees according to my combination square, and went for it.


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## wormil

Looks good, the true test happens once you have all 4 sides cut!


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## Mosquito

the scrap I was cutting up didn't have enough length to have 4 pieces lol

I still have a spare clock face, and I made a clock in the past with mitered corners (The wood whisperer one) and I may make another one of those as an excuse to test the miter box… they're easy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The G-P doing it's thing.


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## DocBailey

OK - just for fun, let's see if anyone in the viewing audience knows what this is … (and yeah, we all know it's a miter box)


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^It's glorious, that much I'm sure of! Wow! G-P had orange on some tools, but that doesn't look like any G-P I've seen before. It it english?


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## DocBailey

Not English. Also not at all sure that paint's original.


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## theoldfart

That looks like an original Langdon from Northampton Pegging Machine Company


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## DocBailey

No, not a Langdon product.

Time for a clue: "Justus Traut"


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, an original Stanley???


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## DocBailey

Apparently the great-grand-daddy of Stanley mitre boxes!

I'm trying to find/beg/borrow a copy of the Chronicle of the Early American Industries Association from March of 2007 (Vol. 60, No. 1) which supposedly has an article on this box. Here's a teaser outtake I found online:
"On June 8, 1875, Justus Traut filed a patent tor an improved miter box, which would launch the Stanley Rule & Level Co. into the miter box manufacturing business for the next one hundred-plus years. Justus Traut was one of Stanley's inventors and contractors. His patent was granted on June 19, 1877 (Figure l). This miter box was designed to be an improvement to miter boxes that were available at the time by other manufacturers. Traut's miter box featured a cast-iron frame and facing board of one-piece construction (Figure L2). This guaranteed that the frame and the facing board would remain perpendicular and square to one another at all times. Most miter boxes of the era …"

I'd love to read the rest …


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm sure you've seen this, being the owner of such an awesome box, but for others…

http://www.google.com/patents/US192139?pg=PA1&dq=June+19,+1877+traut&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pGapUf7_DO7ligLproCIDA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=June%2019%2C%201877%20traut&f=false


----------



## DocBailey

Yes, I have, but thanks for posting that link Smitty.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Did a saw come with?


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## DocBailey

Yes, but there's no way it's original to the box-It's an 18" Disston No. 4 with a "PHILA" medallion (basically manuf'd in the years between the wars).


----------



## pjped

Hi, I'm new to this thread, and there are some awesome mitre boxes already here! I'm a little embarrassed to admit I found mine like this and did not restore it. Only thing I did was to have Daryl Weir sharpen it.

I've designed a stand for it and will begin building it next week can't wait!

Sorry for so many big pics.
































































Here's my old setup pre-hand tools:


----------



## CL810

That was a great find!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Pete, that's beautiful! Great find, indeed. Love the saw etching…


----------



## DocBailey

Nothing to be embarassed about-that's a beaut!


----------



## planepassion

Pete, your miter box has a lot of beauty and character. I love the identifying model plate, brass appointments and saw-plate etch. Really a good looking tool. Thanks for posting the pics.


----------



## helluvawreck

It's a beautiful old tool. Congratulations.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## theoldfart

Pete, I see a rather interesting blue tool chest in the background. It seems to have a fair size nest of saws


----------



## chrisstef

Pete's been holdin out on us! You dog! You've got a whole pile full of goodies there man.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ So many bright colors in the shop background, too! I agree: MOAR!


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## pjped

Okay guys… My tool chest is made of plywood scraps from a stair company, and some poplar and white pine I had in my shop - purists would not approve - but it works for me for now. Soon after I completed it I purchased ATC and realized I made the whole thing wrong! But the prospect of explaining to my wife that I would need to spend weeks building a new one with proper dovetails while she goes without a new mud/laundry room made me a little reluctant… so it's my only tool chest for a while. Here's my tool chest and some other projects I've done…

Photo album of tool chest

Photo album of Compressor Caddy

Phot album of Mortising Jig

Photo album of Barn Sash

Photo album of misc. hand tool pics

Photo album of hand tool workbench

-Pete


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The vises on that bench are particularly nice, Pete. Well done!


----------



## pjped

Thanks, I got the Sjobergs from Woodcraft at 50% off, through Amazon for more $$ off = final cost $68!
the Columbian vise was being thrown out to the curb and a friend spotted it and gave it to me - very lucky with the vises!


----------



## theoldfart

Pete,
not wrong ! It holds and protects the tools, end of story.  Fine workmanship even if it is painted. (my bad)


----------



## pjped

Thanks Kevin. I still want to build one the traditional way… I like the overall proportions of the ATC better than mine. I'll then use this chest for long term storage.


----------



## theoldfart

I had a lot of FUN building mine, just read the book after I had built the chest!
Didn't leave enough room at the top for saws and the like. I have to be sure the top tray is all the way back.


----------



## pjped

I may have a mitre box problem…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd say you have a 'cutt-offs' problem… 

Nice mitre!


----------



## planepassion

Ah, yes, the cutt-offs problem. I've arrived at the point where I *gasp* throw pieces away. The ones I've bored holes in, tested router settings on and generally worked so much that they're useless for anything but the fire pit…which we don't have.

Pete, that miter box looks really solid. Does it track well with the "piston" support design?


----------



## DocBailey

That's an Ulmia, right?-and they don't come cheap. Great color scheme.


----------



## pjped

Yes, I have a cut-off problem!

The mitre box is an Ulmia 352 essentially unused from the 1970's or '80's.
Peck tool wants $545 for this saw, which is virtually unchanged from mine.
I got it from ebay for $124, in perfect condition with 2 extra blades.

I tested it out, and it is in another league from my older Jorgensen I got from Woodworkers Warehouse. Smooth and precise action, but sized for smaller work.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Heck, the base for that saw is nicer than my good mitre boxes… :>


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Found what appears to be an original box for the portable, fold-out mitre 'box' that's been talked about here. The box was finger jointed, but was missing the sliding lid.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rotation improved (stupid image handling…)

I didn't buy it, because the box itself wasn't worth the price being asked for the box w/ folding mitre. But now I have a challenge to build such a box.


----------



## TerryDowning

Not exactly of my dreams but what I have.

I bought this Nobex 110 14 yrs ago. It works well for smaller items (less than 2 " or so but i have cut larger). As mentioned by others attempting to shave a 32nd or so of the end doesn't go too well since the blade can and does flex.

















An inheritance item recently discovered and given attention since I found this thread. Stanley 115 Year/Type unknown. Minor cleanup is all right now. But it cuts square with my cheapo carcass saw. I''' do some more derusting at a later time but it is servicable and easier to set up than the Nobex. I like the little tabs on the front of the base for bracing against the front edge of a bench they actually work really well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks for posting that #115, haven't seen any in use! I like the tabs as well. Saw that in another post of some kind last week, and thought it was an elegant solution.

Wonder what saw came with the #115 (if any?)


----------



## GregInMaryland

I luckily "won" this saw and mitre box on ebay last week. It is a Stanley 246 with a 26 inch Disston saw that is five inches deep. Since it has a Sweetheart logo, I am thinking that it was made anywhere from 1911 to the early the 1930's. It is unused and the blade is factory sharp.










I tried it on one of the hand plane blanks you see at the bottom left. These blanks are about 2 1/2 inches thick by 3 inches deep and are hard maple/black walnut. Without exaggerating, it was the finest hand cut I have ever made (my free hand sawing skills are not the best). Perfectly square and glue-up ready. I can't wait to use it for real instead of test cuts.

Here is a more detailed writeup I posted on another thread (I didn't realize that this Mitre Box thread existed).

Greg


----------



## theoldfart

Greg, lotta guys drooling right now, outstanding score. 5" under the spine will give you a lot of working room. Maybe a couple of closeups of the saw and etch if there is one.


----------



## GregInMaryland

Here are some closeup pictures of the saw. It looks like to me that it is an 11 ppi saw. There is no etch that I can see. Based on a comparison of the saw's medallion to this page I am guessing that the saw is the 1896-1917 vintage.





































if anyone can help me date this, i would be most appreciative.

Greg


----------



## CL810

Greg - that's a great looking setup.


----------



## WayneC

Shipping is a much as the cost of the box…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1930s-GOODELL-PRATT-MITER-BOX-33-DISSTON-SAW-GREENFIELD-MASS-SERIAL-12858-/271263100221?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f288a6d3d


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## littlecope

I had no idea that there even was a Miter Box/Saw thread going on 'til I happened to see it yesterday…
Nice to see that there's still a few folks who like the things!
Might as well throw mine out there, sorry about he condition, I'm a user not a restorer…









I haven't been able to determine anything about the miter frame, the only markings are on the guides… "Pat'd-3-15-04"...









The Saw itself is a 28" Richardson Brothers Back Saw. With a little research, I found that the Medallion used on this one was used starting in 1878…









I don't know whether they are a "Matched Set" or not… It seems unlikely, because it's said that Disston bought out the Richardson Bros. (along with other companies) to eliminate competition circa. 1890…
I do know that it works like a champ, though the saw is due for a little sharpening…


----------



## GregInMaryland

When the time comes and my saw needs to be sharpened, typically how much does it cost to have it sharpened? My saw is a 26 inch Disston at 11 points per inch.

Thanks.

Greg


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Greg- Search LJs for Second Chance Saw Works and talk to Joe. He does great sharpening work, I'm told, and can give you the answer you're looking for.

Mike, the mitre and saw are AWESOME!!! Very handsome pair, and old, too! Thanks for the pics! Gotta learn more about them, for sure!


----------



## littlecope

Thanks Smitty… 
The miter box is an enigma, but the Saw I was readily able to find information about here...
It seems that the Richardson Bros. saws were highly regarded and one of the Disston's biggest (and best) rivals…
The Disston Co. had the more money though I guess, and had the interesting business practice of, "If you can't lick 'em, buy 'em!!" 
They Conglomerated the R.B. company with several others, and formed the National Saw Co during the 1890's… Which they folded in 1906 so as to complete their monopoly! Dirty Capitalists!!


----------



## WayneC

Stanley 150 on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Cast-Iron-Stanley-No-150-Miter-Saw-Box-7-Cutting-Position-/151108518745?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232ec50359


----------



## Loco

Those are gay ! ;-)~


----------



## chrisstef

And that chic looks like Alice Cooper wielding a dollar store handsaw. Ill keep my buck n a half.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh Gawd, that does look like Alice…


----------



## derekcohen

Here is a small mitrebox (and saw) I built.










Link to all the build details: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/SteamPunkMitrebox.html
(and you get to see my MF 74A)

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## TerryDowning

Wow,

That is a beauty. I never thought of making my own. The rare earth magnets for holding the saw to the guides is truly a modern touch to an otherwise very old tool concept and highly innovative IMHO.

Thanks for sharing the build link as well.

I am very impressed!!

I have added your project to my favorites as I may just try this one day.


----------



## dbray45

Very nice job - that will be a well used and enjoyed tool.


----------



## donwilwol

So I'm in the basement of an antique shop. I see a miter box just like the one in the original post(although a bit dustier) including the distton back saw. I walk back upstairs and say to the proprietor, "how much are you asking for the old Stanley miter saw?". He responds "^its not marked ?". "no I say". "Well, lets go look".

He looks it over, picks it up, moves it around, throws his hands up in the air and says, " how about $20".

I didn't have the strength to dicker.


----------



## chrisstef

The hell with dickerin … you had the smarts to not look a gift horse in the mouth. Thats a steal!


----------



## theoldfart

Sold!!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Didn't happen.
.
.
.
.
(No pictures)


----------



## donwilwol

I got pictures, I just can't figure out how to get them from my windows phone to LJ.


----------



## chrisstef

Prolly gotta download 3 security updates, restart twice and input commands in MS DOS.


----------



## donwilwol

downloaded 2 updates, the 3rd was not for my operating system, rebooted twice, transferred the file to skydive, copied over to photobucket, emailed it to myself on my surface.. plugged my phone in, sync'ed up and wa-la, 20 minutes later here I am.


----------



## DKV

Magic Mitre


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don, the elves will have that whipped into shape in no time at all. Nice score!

TIP: Those racks that were made years ago to adapt file drawers for hanging folders? Well, the rails for those make wonder replacement bars across the tops of old Stanley mitres…


----------



## planepassion

Damn Smitty…hanging file wires to repair a Stanley Miter Box? Now that's ingenuity at work there brother. And an inexpensive one at that considering how hard it is for us non-machinists to fashion replacement parts.


----------



## pjped

I just couldn't pass up on this Ulmia 354 to complement my 352. In pretty good shape, not sure the age.





































and the 352…


----------



## CL810

Pete - nice boxes. I'm intimately familiar with Spaten's Optimator but not Duunkel. How is it?


----------



## pjped

CL810, thanks… I like the Dunkel very much, but for some reason it always gives me a headache. And even from just one bottle.


----------



## WayneC

Nice box. Looks cool.


----------



## terryR

OMG, Pete, where do you just pick up an extra Ulmia? If you ever decide to part with one of them…please PM me!

Oh, Joe at Second Chance Saw Works charges $50 to sharpen a miter saw. If no other work is neded…

DonW, I'll give ya $25 for that combo, and you don't have to get your hands dirty!!!!!


----------



## WayneC

I found a later Stanley 100 picture frame miter box today. Complete with saw in pristine shape. I could get it for $100. Is this a steal?


----------



## CL810

They seem to go for $40 - $75 without the saw on ebay. I've never seen one posted with a saw. Does it take a special back saw?


----------



## lysdexic

I spent $85 for my Stanley 100 at an auction. It has the saw but a busted handle and not of the wooden ruler.

Just a point of reference

EDIT: the handle that is busted is the water faucet looking handle on the miter box.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Not a steal at $100, but for pristine I'd sure consider it as a deal.


----------



## WayneC

Both the saw and box look almost unused. I'm just not sure I would use it enough for it to justify taking up room in the shop.


----------



## racerglen

"Justify ?"..enable thyself Wayne !


----------



## CL810

Anyone looking for a 150 ? $30 BIN and $10 shipping.


----------



## DanielS

I've been using a Stanley 116 for a few months, but have been looking for a larger miter box. I found a Stanley 358 A at a junk store last night.









It came with a 26 inch Borg -Warner-Atkins saw. I've got a 22 inch Disston that I've been using with the smaller box, already sharpened.









I'll probably put the larger saw back after I sharpen it. So far, I see why these boxes used with such long saws and I'm loving the extra capacity of the larger box.


----------



## planepassion

Indeed jaimechimie, the longer stroke that a longer miter saw gives you makes sawing a better experience. And it makes you feel like your sharpening of all those bitty teeth was worthwhile because more of them are getting used. I think you're going to like your newest acquisition.


----------



## planepassion

I have an Ingersoll Rand miter box mounted to one of my shop storage benches. After sharpening it recently, it began to bind in the cut. So I broke out my saw set from Lee Valley (the blue one) left it on the "8" setting and had it done in 5 minutes. That solved the problem, no more binding. However I think that the 8 setting applied too much set because now, by comparison, the kerf really looks big to me now. So I think that next time, I'll use the "10" setting to apply the set.

What experience have you guys had with the set of your miterbox saws?


----------



## planepassion

For those of you looking to pick up a miterbox similar to Smitty's…









http://www.ebay.com/itm/stanley-miter-box-242-Antique-dated-1-2-12-w-Disston-Superior-Saw-Frame-2-Cast-/370897293028?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item565b338ee4#shId


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have two saw sets, guilty of not using either one… :-(


----------



## wormil

Acquired this today, which I'm guessing is a Langdon but I don't see a maker's mark on it though it could be on the bottom or under the side boards. Looks hand riveted. The saw is a Disston, blade is a little over 24".


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely a Langdon. Missing the Coping/Stop attachments. About the same vintage as mine.


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## wormil

Well, according to this website it is a Goodell 1244. Apparently the rivets give it away.

https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/gallery/goodell/all-steel-1306


----------



## theoldfart

I spoke too quickly, Rick is correct. Rick that web site reference is great! There are no labels on mine, and the back saw is a Simonds not a Disston. I know that Simonds stopped making back saws in 1926 so I'm guessing mine is some where between 1925 and 1927


----------



## wormil

Well it comes with a story anyway, it belonged to a man named Walter who recently passed. I bought a Powr-Kraft band saw from his son who quizzed me about some of the other tools. The miter saw he didn't want to sell, wanted to keep something that belonged to his dad. I told him the miter saw might be valuable but couldn't tell without some research and mentioned that if he decided to sell it, I might be interested. As I was leaving he asked me what I would do with an with old miter box and without hesitation I said, "Use it!" And he gave me the miter saw. Said it would have meant something to his dad for the saw to go to someone who will use it rather than set it on a shelf. So I will clean it up and think of of a man named Walter whom I never met but who raised a fine son and took excellent care of his tools.


----------



## theoldfart

Rick, he would be proud to have given it to you himself if he could, i'm sure. Mine came from a neighbor along with a #7 type 9 and a #5 type 10. He knew I was a newbie but all he cared about was that I wanted to learn about hand work and I cared about the tools. Langdon/Goodell were made near my home and their predecessor company started in Northampton near the end of my street!


----------



## CL810

Good people stuff.


----------



## TobyC

From Rick's link.

"The Goodell Manufacturing Company was formed in 1902, was owned in part by the Goodell-Pratt Company, and was located in Greenfield, MA. It produced the "All Steel" and "Greenfield" brands of miter boxes among other things. Millers Falls continued to sell these brands of miter boxes under the Goodell name for many years after its 1932 acquisition of the Goodell companies.

Strictly speaking the early versions of these miter boxes are not Langdons but they are often taken for such. This is partly because the later models look rather like Langdons. With respect to the older models however, the "truss" frames composed of numerous small pieces riveted together, two-piece bed/backstop, flat bar feet, the style of stock holding guides and green paint job are their primary distinguishing characteristics. It would also seem that the early models did not bear identifying product tags or logos. It is unclear just when such badges were added. After WWII, the physical differences between the All Steel and Langdon product lines diminish substantially such that by the 1950's and 1960's there truly is little apparent difference between them."


----------



## terryR

Rick, thanks for sharing that story behind your miter box! Walter raised a fine son, indeed. IMO, you should consider making a small gift for His son…using the miter box of course…

A newbie question for the group…I've never used a miter box, but am looking forward to owning one this Fall…

Is the surface of the wood ready for glue up right from the miter saw, or do you guys still shoot the board'd edges? I assume that might depend on the sharpness of the saw's teeth, and a bit of practice? Any advice is greatly appreciated!


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, usually your working with end grain. If the saw is sharp and minimal set, I can get a pretty smooth surface. Sometimes I have knifed the cut lines for a more perfect edge. i try to avoid relying on glue alone for end grain joints. Not sure if this helps.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Kevin, that makes perfect sense. I was mostly thinking of 45 degree miters for picture frames…but you're right…even this joint needs a spline for strength…


----------



## unclebenny

My dad built 58 houses cutting every piece of trim on a Stanley very similar to the one in docbailey's pic. One of my brothers still has it. Just one of dad's old tools we fight over. And by the way, it still works perfectly.


----------



## wormil

Terry, I plan on making him a memory box.


----------



## planepassion

Rick, a memory box for the son will be a welcome and appreciated gift. It will has special meaning because you used the very tools you acquired to fashion it.

Some action shots of my Goodell Manufacturing Co. all steel miter box. Cutting some false drawer-fronts to length. Plywood must be covered.


----------



## theoldfart

Brad, that box looks mighty shiny still. I'm approaching the time when the saw is going to need to be sharpened since I have a bunch of both red and white oak to cut.


----------



## planepassion

Thank you TOF. I restored it to its original glory and am loving it.


----------



## planepassion

Hey guys, I got a great deal on a MF No. 73C yesterday. It's pristine, came with the manual, and with all its parts…or so I thought. The only missing piece is the Elevator Assembly for the rear saw post. By chance, do any of you have a spare sitting in a parts miterbox that you'd be willing to sell to me?


----------



## Tim457

Thought I'd throw this in here, instead of the hand plane thread. Got this mitre box and I don't know much about these. Can't find any markings on the box assembly, but I don't know where to look either. The Saw says Langdon Mitre Box, Millers Falls in the Etch, but Disston on the spine and the medallion. Medallion puts it at 1896-1917.

Can anyone tell me if I'm missing parts? The guy that had this didn't know anything else about them, and some parts of the tools were spread out among different tool boxes. I didn't know what to look for, but if something's missing he might have them if I move fast.


----------



## donwilwol

tim, scroll through this thread. There is some documentation listed for the Langdon. http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/25753


----------



## Tim457

Thanks Don, those manuals should be helpful even though mine is a little different. Mine has the rotating thumb handle on the front instead of the release like the one you have. I'll keep looking for some identification on it.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, take a looksee here. I think maybe Langdon Improved.
https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home


----------



## Tim457

Awesome, thanks, Kevin, you nailed it. You did say that before and it didn't click. On page 136 of this catalog linked from that site is exactly what I have. And it looks like I have all the parts I can see there so far. I'm still looking for a more detailed breakdown of the parts for it and the naming is confusing with New eventually being dropped.

Now I see I might be missing the length gauge.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, length gauge , coping guide and grooved bottom plate were options. on mine


----------



## Tim457

Here's how little I knew about these, after I saw the pictures I figured out where to look for the tag, and under a bit of grime I see that it is a model 74 with 1909 patent date. The saw may not be original to the miter box, but the guy thought it was and it has the 1896-1917 medallion, so mine is very likely made from 1910-1920 or so. Definitely before MF moved from Millers Falls, MA.

Good to know about the length gauges. They seem easy enough to fabricate. What year is yours? I see the picture of yours, by grooved bottom plate do you mean that groove the saw is riding in? And what's the coping guide? I don't see them listed as a feature in the catalogs.


----------



## theoldfart

I think Brandon made his length and cope guides. I ment the bed being grooved, I'll post a pic tonight. Mine is a Goodell Pratt, successor to Langdon about 1926 to 1928 with a Simonds saw. Just picked up a Diston. Tagged Langdons , same vintage as yours .


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, not a great shot but you should be able to see the ridges on the mitre bed:









The coping attachment holds coping at a 45 degree angle and it mounts in the same place as the length stop. All it is, is a vertical post about 3 to 4" high. 
I gave you the wrong name above, it was Brad that refurbed one of these, look here
http://lumberjocks.com/planepassion/blog/34755


----------



## Tim457

Excellent, thanks. I think on mine that's what the knobs that run in the tracks a couple inches in from each side do. Yours and Brads are moved out to the ends. For mine I think the length gauge is just a piece of steel with a 90 degree bend on one end and a slot in it to go over the bolt from the coping mechanism and the knob tightens down over them onto the bed. Probably not explaining that well but I'm not at my computer to crop a photo.


----------



## theoldfart

Gotta love the adjustable width on mitre boxes 9 3/8 or so









I think I still could go out another inch or so.


----------



## planepassion

TOF, that's some serious kind of cool. Where is the width adjustment on that puppy?


----------



## theoldfart

Brad you will see a screw just behind the front post. It just loosens and the post can be moved in or out.








Edit, a better shot


----------



## Airframer

Soooo…. I just won this for $27 (plus $37 shipping ugh.. ) Shipping seemed high but these are heavy and it is still less than all the others on the bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-STANLEY-NO-358-NO-3-FRAME-MITER-BOX-W-DISSTON-28-INCH-SAW-RARE-SET-/181255501474?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=owPS0roT7gdsRWTr8Y23I5%252BJn0g%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc



















Looks mostly complete.. will know more when it arrives.

Smitty… it's a SW


----------



## theoldfart

Nice score Eric. You will love it and 28" is a big saw.


----------



## terryR

Eric, a SW miter box and Disston saw shipped for $64?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, very nice!

I like the adjustable width on that MF as well. My G-P does that, I recently discovered.


----------



## Airframer

I'm pretty stoked about it. Going to get my arse kicked when it arrives at the house though lol. Need to figure out how to smuggle this into the shop somehow ;-)

My newer Stanley miter box is starting to drift off vertical pretty badly now so it was time to upgrade I think.


----------



## TechRedneck

I always ship to my office ; )


----------



## Airframer

My office is an aircraft hanger on a Navy base.. think my chain of command would frown on that lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, did the mitre show up yet?


----------



## Airframer

Supposed to be next week sometime according to the tracker.. *taps foot


----------



## theoldfart

Tap, TAp, TAP STAMP


----------



## chrisstef

Be careful with all that foot tappin. Especially if you find yourself in an airport bathroom stall.

Nice box Eric.


----------



## theoldfart

In an airport foot tappin isn't the problem, it's the bangin into the stall wall that gets the attention!


----------



## Airframer

*IT'S HERE!*

Stef.. Light the SW signal ;-)

Giant box arrives.. wife answers doorbell and all I here is "Eric? Ummmm… What is this?" lol… Soothed it all out by telling here how much I saved on it (it was on sale honey)..

Anyhoo…

PICS! Gonna need a good cleaning and the saw handle needs some work but all in all can't complain..
































































This plate is salvageable right?


----------



## planepassion

Eric, congratulations. There is nothing like getting acquainted with a "new", farm-fresh, just-as-the-last-craftsman-to-use-it-in the 1930s miter box. Looks like the box will clean up nicely. The sawplate does have heavy pitting, but I would be more concerned about the toothline. Can you post pictures of that?

It's ok if there is some rust there and even a bit of pitting, but I think it comes down to whether you can sand the toothline to base steel. Of course, when you sharpen it, you'll have fresh steel on the business edges of the teeth so that's a plus too.

Now Eric, what were you thinking letting your wife answer the door during your delivery date time window? Better to avoid the conversation in the first place is my suggestion  A suggestion born of personal experience


----------



## Airframer

It couldn't be helped! I had a plate of food on my lap and my Dad was on the phone yammering about football… I was TRAPPED! I did feel a cold chill run up my spine when the bell rang though lol.

I'll get some pics of the tooth line posted soon.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## Airframer

There it is 

Just removed the handle from the saw. The handle is toast and will be replaced. It is a crumbly mess right now. I would like to make a walnut handle for it because that would look sweet with the brass saw nuts and medallion it has.

Red.. got a handle sized chunk of walnut you would be willing to part with?


----------



## planepassion

Smitty, I love the SW Batman searchlight. SW is certainly what calls us to the shop.

Airframer…that is funny. Dad on the phone talking about the Broncos-Chiefs ("I've never seen so many penalties in my…*ding dong**.....footsteps to the door….."Delivery for Airframer mam."......busted…..

Walnut will make a really nice "modification" to the saw. I hope you blog about your making of it.


----------



## planepassion

I like my #1024 Ingersoll-Rand (Millers Falls) miterbox from the 1980s. It's mounted to a nearby benchtop and I make most of my "rough" miter cuts with it. However,...there was one thing I didn't like…










And this, I especially didn't like…









Just not comfortable in the hand. So after preparing myself for a long search, I found this one on Ebay within a week. 24" long x 4", 11 ppi. Filed it with 25 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I wanted to have a more aggressive (i.e. faster) cut than the 30 degrees of rake I have on my "precision" Goodell Manufacturing Company miterbox backsaw.




























It cuts well and I'm much happier with the handle.


----------



## Tim457

Eric I have some walnut I can send you, pm me your address and I'll get it out to you. Red cant spare any I'm sure. 

Brad that saw is pretty sweet, can't see the whole etc, what all does it say? Do you still have the clunker saw? You could try carving the handle to make it fit your hand better.


----------



## planepassion

Tim, the etch reads:
"Millers Falls Co." 
"Millers Falls Mass., USA" 
"Langdon Miter Box".....so between the etch and the medallion, I would date it's manufacture to between 1917-1931.

I do have the clunker and intend to keep it should I ever sell the box. However, I am loath to modify the handle because I want to have the "stock" vintage saw/box combination. On the other hand, because this is my primary miterbox for cuts, it would be nice to have two saws sharpened and tuned to switch out in mid-project as required. Then sharpen them both at the same time. And of course, look to modifying the handle to be more hand friendly. Something to think on.


----------



## Airframer

I started to take pictures (so I can get it back together correctly) and take this apart. When I flipped it over that is when I saw this..



















The repair looks old and appears to be holding pretty good but would have been nice to know this up front. Anything I should be concerned about with this?

Also.. Brad, here are some pics of the toothline for you.



















Tim.. I might take you up on that. I have some cherry that is the correct thickness for a handle but I don't think it would look quite right. I'll send you a message.


----------



## Tim457

Brad, it's the 1980's vintage one right, so keeping it unmodified wouldn't be as critical as say an 1880's vintage one. I'd say go for it and make it comfortable. Lots of craftsmen modified their tools and if done well I've heard it can even improve the value. Someday someone will want a Brad special edition, right? 

Eric, I think cherry is a good choice for a handle, but feel free to the walnut. You'll make better use of it than I will right now, so it'll be good to see it in a project. That repair is pretty glaring and if they didn't put that in the pictures or description that's not so nice and you might see what the seller is willing to do.


----------



## planepassion

Tim, that's a good point on the late-model modification to the saw handle. I did shape a late model handle that had been put on a Disston No. 7 I picked up. But it only came out ok. Hence part of my reluctance. I certainly don't have the file skills of Andy (Brit) nor those of other fine craftspeople on this site. But then again, this project would help me build those skills…

Eric, cherry would make a beautiful handle. I would prefer it myself. However, if you have cherry and walnut scraps lying around you might want to hold each up to the saw in the handle area and see which one is more pleasing to you. Go with what you want.

Airframer….oh boy. That toothline looks terrible. It looks to me like the saw was stored with a toothguard on it which trapped moisture to advance the rate of rust along the toothline. Before doing anything to the saw I would suggest that you take some 220 grit sandpaper and see if you can sand off the rust at the gullet line of the saw teeth. Then check it for pitting. If it's as pitted in that area as it looks, you may want to bag the whole restoration and pick up a replacement. So far it looks like you can salvage the spine and nuts and bolts…which implies that you'd have to craft a new sawplate, plus a handle to go with it. Lots of work and if you'd enjoy it, this would be a great project to do that on because at least part of your new saw would be original to the miterbox.


----------



## DanielS

I found a small miter box at an antique store today. I think it's a langdon 15 1/2. I've never seen a saw like this though. The back is stamped ARyCia cast steel.


----------



## DanielS

[No message]


----------



## Boatman53

Deleted, wrong thread.
Jim


----------



## realcowtown_eric

I luv seeing all the mitre boxes. I thought I was the wierdo for liking them…...but here's a heads up buddies….I went through all 450ish replies looking for images of a mitre saw with the attachment #8 as shown in

This little item attaches to the top of the back saw, and on mitre boxes with the latches on top, youcut yer mitre, lift the saw up and it latches. Fit yer next piece and push the saw forward, thia little cam releases the latch on the front, the saw drops in the front, the back release the back catch and the saw drops on your work.

John posted attachments and I will copy them here
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg595/enyoc/296a0e849b5d83e1f60a504102bbcd86.jpg

Look at that little gizmo just to the right of the handle. That is what I speak of.

Of course your wrist controls the drop.

Makes life so much easier.

Tried to copy and paste the image from the replies that shows this, and failed…maybe I succeded But you can find it on the second image of the instructions someone posted….it's item 8. Once you see it. and moreover once you use it, you will understand how it is often missing (it is so small) , and how essential it is for ease of operation particularly for the 5 and 6" boxes. You can expect to sometimes pay as much or more for this little part than you paid for the mitre saw.

I just used a miter box today to cut down some turned table legs attached to a 7' antique havest table skirt. with the help of a few shims…I got 3 CMS's at hand, but it was easier to move the mitre box and shim to alignment with a manual miter saw than it was to try and fit it on any of them, and I oftentimes use them in apartments, not only are they easier to truck up and down stairs, but they don't spray dust all over the place.
{i know yer curious as to why I would do that, but the bottoms were rotted, and client wanted the table raised to accommodate modern chairs, so I had to cut them off square in order to attach 5" turned leg extensions and achieve his requirements!!!)

Despite being "wayback" machines, they still have a place in efficient operations. And they are oh so quiet!!!

Love the opportunity to delve into the collection and chose the one that fits the bill!

Eric in Calgary


----------



## DanielS

If you look at the saws in post 365, it's there. I didn't realize what it was at the time, so it's in the wrong place. After I downloaded a manual, I realized my mistake. I like how the back latch releases as the angle increases.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jamie, i've not seen a 'crooked-back' backsaw like that before. Is it OEM that way? Very cool and unusual, looks like the blade would drop with the saw in the forward position.


----------



## stefang

I've got one similar that I bought new about 20 years ago to cut floor molding with. It works great enough and I still use it for floor moldings as I can do the cutting in the house, but nowadays I just cut all my other miters in the bandsaw a little outside the line and then finish it with my disk sander. Pretty effortless and dead-on. I use my Japanese saw for the smaller delicate stuff.


----------



## DanielS

Smitty; I don't know if it's original or not. I've only seen a couple of catalogs with miter boxes and none had that kind of saw. I tried it out today after some clean up and it seems to work pretty well. It has a lot of set and isn't very straight, so I won't be doing any super fine work right away.

cowtown; Is this the piece that you're talking about?


----------



## realcowtown_eric

That is indeed the piece of which I spoke…

Do you have one?

Eric


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ it's a hard piece of hardware to come by, for sure. All of them found their way to the bottom of a drawer in shop days gone by, removed when the saw went off to be sharpened or placed in the toolbox. Once separated, it's hard to see what it's for, so they went into the trash. Ahh… And Now I Want One.


----------



## DanielS

That is mine. It was on the saw behind the saw it is attached to, when I bought the setup. Until I found a copy of the picture you linked to, I didn't realize how it was used.


----------



## shampeon

Hmm, $80 and free shipping from the 'bay? Yes please. OVB ("Our Very Best") from Hibbard, Spencer, & Bartlett, with a big honkin' saw.

















I can't find any info on OVB miter/mitre saws. Anybody know who made this one for Hibbard? This one is in fantastic shape, and seems to be complete. The saw plate is quite nice, with only minor pitting, and an etch still visible. I don't think it was used much.

















"Rockey" was really worried about marking this saw, clearly.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Hey all. Is anyone able to identify this Stanley mitre saw? I just bought it on ebay but haven't received it yet and wanted to do some research ($36 including shipping so I'm OK with the risk).





































Thanks for any help


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ian, very cool! Love the pictures too. That badge is incredible!

Ninja, there will be a badge on the right end of that mitrebox with a three-digit number if I'm not mistaken. Looks like a medium box, I have one with the threaded 'disc' in the bed like I see on yours. Don't have the part that goes into said disc, haven't seen one, but it's an older design 'feature.'

I'll get a pic of mine and post it, along with a pic of the badge. Good price, shipped. You looking for a saw?


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Smitty. I've got two lonely saws missing their mitre boxes I picked up for a couple bucks at an auction so I'm going to see if either will fit this box when it arrives. I'm pretty much brand new to all this so I'm more than happy to hear the thoughts of anyone willing to share them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

RE: the three digit number for Stanley models of mitreboxes. One is the size box, another digit is the amount of saw plate under the spine, the third (as I recall) is the length of the saw, last digit. Model 346, for example, is a size 3 box, 4 in. under the spine, 26 inch saw.

Again, as I recall. I think it's talked about on this thread too.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks for that, Smitty. I'll look back through this thread. I'm sure more things will be directly useful to me now that I've got one of these suckers.


----------



## shampeon

Thanks, Smitty.

If anyone has any info on OVB miter boxes, I'd be interested. As far as I can tell, it doesn't match any models of Stanley, Langdon, Millers Falls, or Goodell-Pratt.


----------



## lysdexic

Ian,
I have some information on OVB miter boxes. They look awesome.


----------



## planepassion

That OVB example is a very nice piece from the early 20th century. Love the font they used.

A $36.00 miterbox pickup is very nice.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Brad. Looking forward to getting it and really seeing what I have.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

So that Stanley mitre box finally arrived…broken. Looks like it happened in shipping. The base where the rear guide post attaches broke.



















Turns out it was a Stanley 358. I'm a little bummed. I assume this can be repaired but is it worth doing so? I also assume any value this may have once held is effectively gone, even if it's repaired.


----------



## CL810

Ouch!!! Wasn't it insured?

Edit: just read you bought this for only $36!


----------



## Boatman53

I might be able to help you out Ninja. Let me see what I have in the bone yard. I'll get back to you.
Jim


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Boatman - thank you.

CL810 - no, the seller didn't insure it (I don't recall having the option when I paid for it but I might be wrong). The situation's resolution just became unclear to me…

The seller asked if I wanted a refund. I thanked him for the offer and asked if that would include the return shipping. He didn't respond to that email, he just refunded me the total amount I paid (including original shipping) and closed the case. His listing says he will only issue refunds once the item is returned to him so I'm not sure if he's expecting me to send the item back to him or what (he never answered my question about return shipping which was a big factor in my decision). Not sure what I'm supposed to do here. I'm not trying to screw him over but I don't want to be out the shipping on this thing if there might be some value in its parts or even as a user after a repair. I mean, I still need a mitre saw. I don't cut perfect angles free-hand very well and it's a bit of a hassle and not always possible to break out the CMS (it also ruins the vibe of the shop when everything else is hand tool work).

Ok I'm rambling now. Anyone care to share their opinion on the matter?


----------



## planepassion

Ninja, speaking as someone who has sold a few items on Ebay. Given that the item is broken, and therefore, useless to the seller as a product, he doesn't expect you to ship it back to him. He's already lost $36 and will lose another $40 in shipping… He did the right thing by refunding your money…and he's in all likelihood written the whole thing off as a loss.

Can it be repaired? Yes, it can. We all come across tools that were contemporaneously repaired by their owners at the time. What I don't know is if it is worth your while. I don't know that, if once repaired, it will make straight cuts. Or if the repair will hold. IF you want to repair it, I would track down a metalshop guru to see about welding it. However, I suspect that the break will always bug you and you may be better off continuing your search for a vintage miterbox in good order.


----------



## donwilwol

*NinjaAssassin*, if he shipped it USPS its insured for $50 by default, so if he's smart, he will get his money back.

To bad it got broke.


----------



## donwilwol

So I go out to the shop thinking I have a miter box just like the one NinjaAssassin has. I believe I paid $20 for it. Sure enough there it is. A quick brush to find a model, and hasn't it been welded in the exact same spot? So I've got parts, just not the one you need, at least not in pristine condition.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Brad, thanks for the insight. The break certainly will bug me and I do intend to continue my search for a nice vintage mitre box in good condition. As far as a repair goes, I just found an explanation of brazing cast iron and I wonder if anyone in my area even does that sort of work. I'm going to do a little more research first, but I'm thinking it might not be the worst idea to start out with some JB Weld epoxy and see if that'll hold well enough.

Don, that's a good point. I think it was sent via USPS. He has pictures of the damage, so he may have all the information and documentation he needs to file a claim.


----------



## Boatman53

I got you covered Ninja. I have a #358 it's missing the pivot bolt or whatever it's called and I was planning on parting it out. I might as well start now. Ninja has dibs on the lower arm, anyone else need something from a 358? I'll post pix at lunch time. 
Jim


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## NinjaAssassin

Awesome, thank you Boatman!

Don, thanks for going to take a look. You guys really are a swell bunch.


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## donwilwol

Jim, I am missing the lock mechanism for the front bar.










The lower arm has been welded, but it appears to be working and functional. If anyone wants it for shipping let me know.


----------



## johnstoneb

Jb weld might hold until you try to use it. Brazing it is probably the way to go. Any machine shop or welding shop can braze or weld it. Probably won't cost that much.


----------



## Boatman53

Bad news Ninja… Mine has been cracked and welded also, but nicely done and definitely useable. 
Don do you see anything you need?
Anything anyone wants I will send at no charge to them but I do ask you make a donation to a local food pantry in exchange.
Here is what I've got.































































Jim


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## NinjaAssassin

Boatman, that's extremely generous of you. If you're still offering, I could use the piece you have and the top rail that connects the two posts if no one else needs it. Are you sure I can't at least pay for shipping?


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## Boatman53

You got it Ninja. This is the season of giving and I am glad you can use them. Just pay it forward to someone else that needs something (I'm thinking food pantry but you choose).
Jim


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## NinjaAssassin

Well thank you so much Boatman. Call me Billy. My wife and I will absolutely make an extra donation specifically in response to your generosity. Thank you again!


----------



## chrisstef

Whats the consensus say on a Stanley #60 miter box? I found one buried in the back of the warehouse at the office the other day. Im sure it hasn't been used in a long time around here. Thinking about takin her home with me to pair up with a 28" disston miter saw.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jim - I'm more than happy to take the bottom rod off your hands for 'local donation' consideration. If it's still available…


----------



## Boatman53

It's yours Smitty. There is still a lot left.
Jim


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## TerryDowning

Stef,

I've never used one but if you don't already have a miter box…
Here is what renaissance worker has on his 60

Seems like it might be worth a shot.


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## NinjaAssassin

Jim, the pieces you sent arrived last night. I opened them up a few minutes ago and all is good. Thanks again!


----------



## Boatman53

Billy, thanks for letting me know.
Smitty, your pieces went in the mail today.
Anybody else need any parts from the Stanley 358 miter box shown above?
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jim; the mitre looks forward to becoming 'more complete'. 










I'll be dropping some $ in a SA Red Kettle this Christmas on your behalf, Sir.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Ah yes, almost forgot - the wiffle is taking some groceries to our church's food bank per your request.


----------



## Boatman53

Thanks guys, that's what it is all about. That's one way I can spread it around, and I'm glad to help get some tools back on line.
Jim


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rod came yesterday, pic to be posted soon. The Stanley mitre took another step towards being 'whole' again.










There is a second, shorter rod in the picture (pulled from Cat. 34), but I'll check on a substitute for that piece..


----------



## theoldfart

Good deal on the 'Bay


----------



## Tim457

Nice, looks like the one I have. It's missing the guides that run in those two slots on either side and the length guide, but other than that looks to be in pretty good condition. Curious to see what it goes for.


----------



## donwilwol

Kevin, wasn't that 73 a buy it now when you posted it?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, senior moment, I don't remember!


----------



## planepassion

Hey Guys, Any of you know anything about a Union #2 Miter box? A guy over here is looking for info and I thought the collective wisdom on this thread could enlighten him.










It has an interesting design. Apparently the saw and guide assembly swivels into place over the work.


----------



## chrisstef

Is it Union out of New haven (edit, New Britain) or is it Union Hardware out of Torrington Brad?

Limited internet search comes up with a Perfection miter box made by union hardware out of Torrington CT.


----------



## chrisstef

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/100-yr-old-perfection-miter-box-w-saw-union

http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=94614&submit_thread=1


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I know that saw is a Bishop's Patent adjustable dado saw… Worth in the range of $70 and highly sought after although his seems to have a chunk of the handle missing. Box looks incredible, saw is almost certainly not native to it.


----------



## DaddyZ

I think saw Looks Chopped in a couple of places


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## Bundoman

I wont go so far as to call this one my favorite but I picked this one up for 5 bucks at a garage sale. Not sure if everything is there but thought I would post as this looks to be a Powr-Kraft 100 which as best as I can tell is a Stanley built box. I didnt see another Powrkraft in this thread so thought I would share. I would like a little heavier model in time but this looked like a nice place to start. Restotation planned for spring and I have a 26 inch Disston saw to put in it. It bears very strong resemblance to the Stanley box in post 103. Having trouble getting photobucket to resize tonight so pics are not great. Apologize for that.


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## DanKrager

Bundoman, that looks exactly like a Stanley that I bought new in 1976. About the same condition, too, due to little use and lots of neglect. 
DanK


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## Bundoman

Yeah! This one was found at an open air flea market that opens annually for a fall festival. I do not think that much moves the rest of the year and everything is pretty open to the elements so things get to looking tough in a hurry. I bought the saw vise there too and it looked a little fresher overall.


----------



## theoldfart

If anyone is looking for a GP 
I have the same mitre box with a Simonds saw and I love it.


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## MikeThrockmorton

Mine:










Bought it a long time ago (for a few bucks, back when I thought I was poor and before the 3 kids. Now, my definition of poor is much different) to use to do finish carpentry on my house. Came with wonderfully massive Disston saw:










Nothing unique or in especially good shape (except for the saw).

Was handy though.


----------



## ToddJB

All, I have at Stanley 150 that I found at a previous rental, I know these are not the revered big boys that are mostly found on this thread, but has anyone had good success with them? Should you wax the blade to reduce friction of the guides?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mark at Bad Axe loves the Stanley 150, and he should know… I'd say its definitely something you can run with for smaller jobs at least. Wax is a fine idea. Others might suggest mutton tallow as well.


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## ToddJB

Ha. Thanks Smitty. Mark's was the only praise that I found, as well. But I figured that had more to do with his saw and less about the miter box.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just about any backsaw would work with it. If you have a backsaw, there's a clear path to you being the resident expert on Stanley 150s… And I mean that with all seriousness!


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## ToddJB

I've got a Miller Falls that might work, but I think it might be a little short. I'll have to check it out.


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## Airframer

Cross post from the SW thread.. need a bit o' help with this guy..

Started taking apart my 358 today. So far every screw/bolt has been firmly seized in place lol. I might have to get my torch out for some of them..

In the mean time the saga continues… Got home from work and started back up working on the back upright. I decided to try and unscrew the bar from the base so I could flip the box over and work on the bottom. I gave it a twist and the damn threaded end snapped off!



















And here is the broken set screw on the same upright..










This end of the swing arm has been brazed back on previously so I am really considering just finding another swing arm assembly but in the mean time anyone know where i can find a new upright? *mumblegrumblemumble


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## donwilwol

Man, that sucks Eric, but I can't wait for the ingenious way you come up with to fix it.


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## DanKrager

AF, forgive repetition if I've said this before: A 50-50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid given 10 minutes will eat through the rust and let those bolts go free, no heat required. Blaster is a distant second (by a factor of 10). A bit of shock from a light hammer (no damage) can speed things up some. After nearly 8 hours of trying, including glowing red heat from a rosebud, this was the only mixture that broke loose a badly rusted nut on a ditcher. Everything under the nut was rusted to the 3" shaft along it's 48" length, too, but nearly fell off after the mixture had a chance to work. Good luck. I hope this helps someone…
DanK


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## NinjaAssassin

Well, I need some more help. The weather was pretty nice yesterday and is inexplicably gorgeous today (it's about 61 here in Northern VA) so I spent some time in the shop (first time since before Christmas). Among the few projects I've started, today the biggest one was trying to disassemble the Stanley 358 I've got so I can replace the busted part with the piece Jim (Boatman53) sent me. Well, long story short, lots and lots of penetrating oil was necessary because one side of the box is rusted up pretty nice. So much, in fact, that I busted a thumbscrew.

This is what it should look like…










and this is what it does looks like










Anyone have an extra thumbscrew they'd be willing to sell? More importantly, can anyone share with me the process for removing the part of the screw that's threaded in there?


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## Airframer

I have to perform the same surgical maneuver on my 358 except with one of the uprights and the set screw below it.

I picked up some easy outs yesterday so maybe I can get you some pics in the next couple of days on how to do it.


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## NinjaAssassin

That'd be great if you can. Thanks. After busting the thumbscrew, i put another heavy coat of penetrating oil on every rusted piece and called it a day.

Now the kids are up so that's all the shop time for today.


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## ColonelTravis

Wife picked this up for me at an estate sale today for $10. She'd called me on the phone, asked if I wanted it. I said - any markings, numbers, etchings? She said she had no idea, but sent some photos over the phone that didn't help much but I knew it was vintage and said - for $10 get it!

Here are some pictures after arriving home. Need some help since I'm ignorant about old miter boxes. I believe it's a Stanley? Saw I'm having trouble ID'ing (I mean, is SSW an actual saw company? Or did they make these for others?)


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## planepassion

Well, Colonel, the patent is a Stanly patent. US754625 A. Google patents are a fantastic resource!

The saw looks to be too short to me to be original to the box. I would expect a saw at least 22" long. However,

Sheffield Saw Works appears to be associated with A. C. Atkins & Co.


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## shampeon

I can't say who made the box, Travis, but you practically stole it for $10. The saw was made by Atkins, I'd bet. Nice find.


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## planepassion

Your box appears to be in great shape. It also looks to be an older model, perhaps around the turn of the century, on account of the brass appointments. Just a phenomenal find in general, and a smoking-hot deal at $10.00. Your wife really did you a solid. Something to be admired.


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## ColonelTravis

Ah, thanks Brad for the patent site.

Yeah, I saw that possible Atkins association, didn't know if there were other possibilities. Real happy with this. I wasn't on the lookout for an old miter box but can't wait to clean it all up and use it.

The maroonish color is interesting. Wonder if I can match that.


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## planepassion

Does the maroon look original to the box? Or is it post-production applied?

If you have a graphic artist friend, they may be able to help you match it.


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## ColonelTravis

If it's not original, it's the only paint job on there, but it's interesting how it's caked on like this at this spot on both front feet. Not sure what caused that. Maybe it was more red and changed over time.


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## littlecope

That's identical to the one I have Colonel! (Post #332)
You made me have to go check it for color, and there is definitely traces of that same maroonish-red on it…
Yours is in a lot better shape than mine my Friend, your Wife deserves something really nice for Valentine's Day Sir!!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful!!!


----------



## theoldfart

That's some mitre box Colonel! Should serve you and your heirs for generations to come. Your spouse has a great eye, you owe her big time.


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## ColonelTravis

Oh yeah, Mike, it is. Wish I could figure out the model # for the heck of it, unless it was mentioned earlier and I didn't see it. Magnificent Members of the Mystery Miter Club (MMMMC). Need to come up with a stealthy logo.


----------



## littlecope

I've had no luck finding out who made them…?
Mine is a fine worker though, as I'm sure you'll find yours to be, Enjoy!


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Smitty. Loved your pictures of the mitre box at the start of the thread.

But what I didn't see was the release attachment….shown in this photo just ahead of the handle…
http://hamilton.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=487039214

When you push the saw forward, it triggers the release on the forward latch, the front drops, the slant of the saw triggers the back release….makes life so much easier!!!

If you look closely at the old stanley catalogue images, you will see it there as kind of a little blob.

Now that you guys/gals has seen em, They're oftentimes lost or dissassociated from the saw, but because they are shiny nickle plated, just get put into piles of workshop dross by the unwashed heathen woodbutchers. Good luck finding one….

Eric in Calgary


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric, Thanks. And yeah, I know that release attachment is out there. Heck, one of my saw handles is dimpled where the thing used to clamp to it. I'm looking, brother. And someday…


----------



## Bundoman

Not a super gloat but I think this may be a pretty good deal. I made a completely unscheduled chance stop at a Habitat Restore today just to check it out and look what I found on the shelf!!! It is a Millers Falls 740 miter box. I have been wanting to find one of these reasonable. They named the price at $20 and I did not argue! I found the saw hanging near by with a bunch of other hand saws and had to toss up another $5 for it. It is badged warranted Superior. Not sure how good the saw is and can find no other markings on it. It will need the filed for sure but is pretty clean. The box itself does appear to be missing a few small parts but is not too bad for condition. I should be able to fabricate the stop rods. If I am really lucky, maybe the right bracket can be found. I can make a decent facsimile of it based off of the left side with some work but the real thing would be nice and a whole lot simpler. I may have to post in the swap for these parts although I suspect it may be a long shot. I might be interested if anyone knows of available parts…..


----------



## lysdexic

Alright Brent, that is an awesome find. Really. But it does not come with a proof of accuracy? Does it?

However, I have been following this thread since inception without a thing to offer. Well, I am coming clean. I have a miter box and it's a Craftsman. It exudes quality. The MWTCA wants me to put it on tour along with the tool box they brought up from the Titanic but, alas, I am busy.

Donated by my next door neightbor.


----------



## lysdexic

Mine has a face with rosy cheeks.


----------



## lysdexic

Mine has a base of formaldehyde based MDF with a plastic veneer. Tsup wit that?


----------



## Bundoman

Thank you lysdexic…Now…How much for the sticker???


----------



## lysdexic

I'll give you the whole damn miter saw if you pay for shipping.


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## planepassion

Very nice find Brent. $25.00 is a great price too. And smart thinking to look at the nearby handsaws to locate the companion saw. The warranted Superior brand tended to be the major saw maker's second-line saws. However, their second-line saws were much better than today's first-line saws. I have one and it works just fine.

As for fabricating the brackets, that's doable. I've done that for two different pieces on two different miterboxes that I have. Just find some steel of similar thickness and put your metal-working skills to use.

lysdexic, I'd love that miterbox. But I already have…hmmm…1…2…3…4…of my own. So I'm gonna need to sell off a few before doing that.

I keep coming across miterboxes at estate sales in amazing condition. Can't find much in the way of planes, but saws and miterboxes, you can find in Denver.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Scotty, still got the sawdust? If not, the guarantee is worthless…


----------



## Bundoman

Lysdexic..I do appreciate the good offer but judging by the smily face, AND ROSY CHEEKS, your saw must be happy with you. I hate to get in the middle of such a beautiful thing! Hehehe! I also have three right now in varied states of unclean. I posted the box that I had planned to make my good saw a few days back in here. I tthnk i can make that one go away now. It is a Powr Kraft 100 Wards badged Stanley that needs tanked and scrubbed pretty bad. It could be an OK box,

Brad…as it turns out, I found the back saw first and started looking around to see if a box was around. There were several little wood jobbies and the MF, tucked on the bottom shelf among them. I broke my cardinal rule of no credit cards for tools today as I was not even in shopping mode today but saw the sign and thought what the heck. Not too much doghouse but I did get that "seriously" look from SWMBO when I put it on the kitchen table.

I decided I needed…er…wanted a Langdon style MF box at Christmas. They tend to go above what I prefer to pay on the Bay especially shipped and I rarely see the old ones in the wild, so was surprised when I saw this one today. My usual Illinois haunts seem to have planes and chisels, hammmers ad handsaws, and the picking last fall was exceptional. Hope it warms up soon so cleaning can resume…

Did I mention planes?? Should I look into therapy? Now….where to put that box??


----------



## terryR

^Brent, you don't really need therapy IMO, bud. Just a lot of cleaners and tiny brushes! LOL. There's just something about a bench full of planes that stirs me…

Hey Brad, holler if you need to sell off one of those Ulmia's to make space in the shop. Just sayin'


----------



## planepassion

One picking season? Brent, that is exceptional picking. It would take a decade of looking around Denver to amass that fine collection…at outrageous prices…if at all.

Is that a skew block plane I spy parallel to the front of your bench between the blocks and the bench planes? And a side rabbet plane?


----------



## donwilwol

I'm thinking of starting a therapy session. Just box those suckers up and ship them my way for a down payment.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That mitre does compound mitres, Yo! Have you tried it? Looking at the rust on the blade, I'd suggest not…


----------



## planepassion

Compound miters. Well. That's a new twist. Good eye there Smitty. I've never seen that on a miterbox. Could come in handy from time to time.

Don, Don, Don. The first rule of therapy is that a person has to want to be helped. Look at the pic in #518. Sure, at first it my look like a cry for help. But if I were to observe the patient in the presence of all that loot, I dare say he'd be quite happy. Was probably whistling a happy tune while he set it all up for the pic. SWMBO might be a different story. It may be she who needs therapy  (Just funning with you Brent)


----------



## DanKrager

Brent, I guess you'll have to do therapy by building plane and saw tills with your beautiful miter box. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Scotty, I wouldn't be so quick to give up the compound miter thing, especially if you are focusing on hand tool use. I could almost be tempted to trade a Stanley box for it to see how accurate the sawdust is.
DanK


----------



## DocBailey

Bundoman's post (#518) reminded me of my seldom-visited old tool waiting room where tools sit till I can get around to cleaning them up. 
Here's one I've had waiting in the wings for a while-the biggest size Stanley made, I believe, the #360.
The saw is 28" x 6"




























For decades, this was the DIY cutting station at a long-since-closed lumberyard. Amazingly it has all the pieces except for one of the stock guides. (and of course, the elusive "automatic catch" which attaches to the spine of the saw just ahead of the handle)


----------



## planepassion

The abominable #360. What a behemoth. 28" x 6". Well, that should cover your mitering needs Doc.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Cow, what a monster…


----------



## Bundoman

That big miter is really cool! I did find the compounding option cool on that Craftsman box too, by the way. Brad, I think the block plane you are referring to is actually a lever cap #65. I do have a 140 that I dont believe got to smile for the picture. The side rabbet in an affirmative. I found that one at Goodwill many years ago before internet selling. In true disclosure, there are about 7 planes in this group that I have had for awhile. The Stanley 45 was another and several of the block planes. The rest have come home in the last 13 months or so. It isn't always quite like this but the auction house in town sold out a local collection in summer of 2013 and although I was unable to attend the actual auction, I did find many good deals in area shops through the fall. I do plan to clean and sell a few of these to further my hand tooling set. Scary part of all of this, as some of you may have red when I joined a couple weeks ago, is that I was almost gave this up as a hobby just 3 years ago but slipped right back down the slope when I started unpacking the stuff I had to sell.

I don't know Don…shipping this much weight might go better by freight….too rich for my blood….I have decided that denial is best so I don't have a problem!

I took the picture for the fun of it, and to have a little documentation for homeowners should there be an issue. I like how they look, though! Fifteen degree heatwave today so gonna head out to the shop for a bit and tinker with the miterbox. Plane and saw storage do need increasing for sure. There are ideas in my head.


----------



## Bundoman

Incidently Doc…glad to know others have a stash of rust in que….If you all only knew the half of it! There are chisel handles to turn and saws to sand and another post drill, and, and, and…I hope to level things off a bit to do some building again soon!


----------



## Bundoman

Brad…You might be right on SWMBO. She still likes to go flea marketing with me though! I think she gave up. I might have smiled a little while taking photos but I'm not sayin!


----------



## Bundoman

We had a big heat wave today of 16 whole degrees so I bundled up a little and went to the shop to try and shake the cabin fever a little. O.K….the need to fiddle with this miter bx was pretty convincing!I I scrubbed the blade with 400 grit wet dry and and mineral spirits on a wood block to get off the superficial rust and touched up the teeth with my fledgling saw sharpening skills. It was pretty dull before and I did help it quite a bit.
I have to say that the folks around here were definitely not wrong! This box holds settings and cuts very well. I cut some miters in hard maple scrap and the combo square is saying we are in pretty darn good shape already. I will have to clean fences and bases come spring, and perhaps do a litle more checking but do not plan to fully restore this one as it isn't particularly ugly. I will probably touch up the tables and feet to take care of the rust. Happy!...Cold…but happy!


----------



## arangov3

A lot of great examples here in this thread but the only one that I would like for my self is a DIY.

here is the link if anyone was interested http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/SteamPunkMitrebox.html


----------



## Boatman53

I really like that little box I was watching his posts as he was building it. Very innovative.
Jim


----------



## pjped

Ulmia Mitre Box on ebay - low reserve!


----------



## pjped

No, I'm not bidding… Already got one!


----------



## Bundoman

That little box is pretty sharp looking!!!


----------



## pjped

Someone just won the Ulmia 354 for $59!


----------



## Airframer

That sounds good! Till I noticed "Shipping: $77.43" What the hell.. is it being shipped with lift service?


----------



## pjped

It shows $30.15 on my computer?


----------



## DocBailey

Pete

there's a built-in calculator that uses your zip code and calculates the cost-obviously it will cost more to send it from Massachusetts to Washington (Airframer) then to Long Island (you)

Or were you just kidding?


----------



## Airframer

Yeah, but I still don't think it would cost $77 to ship to me. I bought a Stanley cast iron no 358 with a 28" back saw and it only cost them $20 to ship it to me from NJ.

I think, a lot of times, the sellers are trying to cover any losses by increasing shipping.. Still a nice box and glad shipping wasn't THAT crazy for you.


----------



## pjped

No, I didn't buy it, I already have a 354, but I didn't even think about the different shipping… I', not the sharpest chisel in the drawer!

Someone got a good deal when you see how much Peck Tool is selling them for.


----------



## chrisstef

Looking for a thumbscrew to fit a Stanley 150 miter box.


----------



## ToddJB

Is it an odd size? The ace by my house carries tons of thumb screw options. Or are you looking for an original?

Or you could just do this:

http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/forsale/tools/fs-tools.htm


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## DocBailey

Do you know the size?

If I recall accurately there are two-one I think sets the height of the saw guide and the other possibly sets the thickness of the guide.

If so, then you still have one, correct?

See if it fits the hole you're trying to fill and let us know the thread size.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If not, do you have a #45? or #80? Those have thumbscrews that may be a fit and would then be measurable…


----------



## CL810

Both of the thumbscrews in my 150 are the same. 1/4" 28 tpi.


----------



## chrisstef

Sorry for the tardy response here fellas. I do have the other thumbscrew that fits the collar. I tried it out late last night and that same screw fits in the hole that presses the guide/tension thingy against the saw plate. Ill try that size you had suggested CL810. Thanks gang, ill see if the local hardware store has got some in stock. Im not real concerned about a vintage screw, I just want the old girl functional again.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, you guys have influenced my shop…again. I saw a mitre box at an antique shop today. Really, it's the only antique shop around here I've had any luck at. Anyway, picked up this Stanley no 246:
-








-








-









-

Looks a little late to be a SW. Probably 50s or 60s? And I know Warrented Superior saws aren't anything to brag about. But the toothline is straight as an arrow. I think it'll do just fine with a sharpening job and maybe a new handle.

The box is missing a few little parts, but the slide action is very nice. Anyway, think I did alright for $20. I showed my daughter how it works. I think she's more excited to fix it up than I am;-)

Edit- it's cut off in the pics, but I'm missing the crossbar(easy fix) and one of trip levers(a bit more difficult).


----------



## shampeon

Nice pick up, Red. $20 is a steal, and that looks essentially unchanged from the earlier types.

I've been getting to know my miter box a lot recently for my bench build, and I'm really enjoying its large capacity, the depth stops for tenons, and the precision of the angles. These angled tenon shoulders were simple to execute.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ahhh….here and I thought you were just the pimp daddy of all free hand sawyers Ian. Mitre box….makes sense.


----------



## shampeon

Just the long, angled cuts with the miter box. The rest were free-hand, so pimp still applies. 8^)

My secret: knife walls.


----------



## DocBailey

BRK

If you go back to the first page in this thread and check my post #7 you'll see that the badge on mine looks identical to yours.

I know that mine dates to 1955 when the old timer who sold it to me bought it to do the trim in the house he built that year.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

By golly your right Doc. Although seeing yours makes me realize mine is missing a few more parts than I thought. I still have a lot to learn about these buggers.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

It's a little bit more exoterica, but I note that a lot of the mitre saws shown in the images have somewhat grungy sides. No harm when captured in a mitre box, but freehand, it's a different story.

With shiny reflective sides, it's so easy to set the saw on the corner of a board and look at the reflection in it…when it forms a straight line, the saw is square both ways to the piece, and you can cut with abandon,

This also works with handsaws of most ilks.

Take a chunk of 2by and try it. test the cut with the best square you got. Tell me if you ain't suprised at how close you is to square!!

Eric


----------



## DocBailey

Just thought I'd show the end result of my cleanup of the Stanley 360 mitre box I posted earlier in this thread. I take everything down to the last set screw, clean and wirebrush (brass only), but do not repaint or try to make things look like new.
For the thin-skinned among us: this is not directed at you. This is how I do things.

BEFORE










AFTER





































Still need to make a new sacrificial board and touch up the saw teeth


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Beautiful work, Doc! EDIT: Your cleanup method is my preferred as well.


----------



## upchuck

Doc-
Why didn't you replace the board? Any risk to saw teeth without it?


----------



## swirt

Nice work DocBailey.
I just recently brought this old Craftsman home for $17.









Then got carried away with removing what remained of the flaking original paint and had to paint some of the steel parts… then it looked unfinished so I painted the aluminum base too. 









It has a nice feature in that it requires no base board, though you have to be extra careful to make sure the depth stops are tight and hold their ground.

I am envious though of the length of the guide rods on your Stanley. When I swap out the included Craftsman saw for my older and deeper Disston 4 I am going to lose some capacity.
http://lumberjocks.com/swirt/blog/40453


----------



## DocBailey

Thanks for the kind words, Gentlemen

I just haven't gotten as far as making the new sacrificial board-but if the lower travel limits are set correctly, the saw teeth can't contact the table


----------



## planepassion

Swirt, we must all guard against guide-rod envy.

You did a great job on the restore. I'm curious though. Why are you going to swap out the saw? If I were to guess, I'd say that you don't like the handle. That's been my main objection to the later model miterbox saws. If that's the case, why not make a new handle and carry on with the saw that originally came with the box?


----------



## swirt

Brad I have a slew of reasons but it is primarily #1

Pros:
1) Length of saw stroke: The original saw has roughly 8" of travel while my Disston 4 has more like 13" so it essentially should cut 1/3 faster. (13 inches is a more natural arm movement, 8" is kind of confined.)
2) It is older.. I like older tools. 
3) The tote is much nicer. 
4) My saw till only has so much room and I am not giving up the Disston to replace it with a Craftsman. One of them has to go. 

Cons:
A) I lose about 1" of depth of cut with the Disston. It is rare that I am cutting 4" stock on a miter.


----------



## 7Footer

Beautiful mitre box I found on CL, I don't have $200 to drop on it and frankly I have no idea if its worth that or not… But I'm on the lookout for one I can fix up into a user.

1909 Stanley Mitre Box
Lol, the guy says its a beautiful display piece…


----------



## DaddyZ

Lucky Guys !!!

I bought (2) Miter Boxes hoping to find a saw later.

3-4 years later still no Miter Saw


----------



## DocBailey

7Footer

Just my $.02, but that is too high a price-I bought them from that era unused for half that (saw still in it's paper wrapper, no cuts i the sacrificial board, still covered in cosmoline)

DaddyZ

I take it you mean you can't find one locally, or at a really cheap price, right?
Because I see them all over online.


----------



## DaddyZ

Correct

No buying Online or EBAY for me.

Only Internet Access is at work for me.


----------



## planepassion

DaddyZ, if you can't use the Internet in your search for a miter saw that will work with your boxes then I'm surprised it's only been 3 years of searching.

It took me 6 months of searching online before I found one that would work with my Goodell Manufacturing co miterbox. I needed one that had 5" of depth beneath the spine, so that was one variable that lengthened the search.

You could set up and use an Ebay account at your local library computer station. Might move things on a bit. I'd hate to see your vintage boxes continue to collect dust.

Swirt, all very good reasons indeed. I'm with you on the saw stroke. The short saws give the arm a workout.


----------



## dbray45

DaddyZ - I have a newer saw that I can let go, its from the '60s or so. I am not going to use it and it probably needs sharping (I have 2 other saws that I like and use). PM me if you want it, we can work on a price. It is from a Craftsman Mitre saw - which is a Millers Fall / Langdon. Should fit on any good mitre box


----------



## johnstoneb

This was at my door this afternoon.




























A 2246 It looks complete. I got it for $24.99 plus freight of $31.00. I have a 5"x26" saw that I thought would fit.
The posts that hold the saw have a closed end so now I need to find a box for a 5" saw and a 4"x26" saw for this box.
No one else bid on the box. I have not been able to find out to much about the 2246 miter box It looks complete, from the pictures can anybody see anything that myght be missing other than the saw.
I guess I will have something to do for the next week or so.


----------



## planepassion

Nice pickup John. I especially like that it has all its accessories. And I would attribute that to the fact that they are docked to the miterbox. Yeah, getting the right saw can be a time-consuming affair. You may wish to post a "wanted" forum item requesting it.


----------



## DocBailey

In the 1950s Stanley catalogs, these boxes (2244, 2246, 2358) are sold alongside the older versions (244, 246, 346, 358, 360).
[see my post #557 (above) for an example of a 360]

Again, for those not aware, the numbering system for Bruce's 2246, for example, indicates (using the last two digits) a 4" depth backsaw, by 2*6*" length.
In the case of my 360, the "6" is the depth of the backsaw; the "0" indicates a 30" saw

The 22xx series is somewhat simplified when compared to the construction of the earlier boxes. They were advertised as having a "minimum number of parts." The 2xx and 3xx series, on the other hand, were advertised as being capable of being made compact for carrying by removing the uprights. 
Corresponding models in the 22XX line were actually 2 to 3 dollars more expensive than the 2xx and 3xx series.


----------



## ToddJB

Doc, what would a Stanley 50 1/2 be?


----------



## DocBailey

A 50 1/2 was part of the lower priced "Victor" line of tools, and did not come with a saw.

While perfectly serviceable, I believe, given the size of the frame, that it could not handle as big a saw (or by extension, as large stock) as some other models. It also lacked some of the bells and whistles.

Speaking of frames, I can't recall right now, but I think the first number in the 2XX and 3XX series boxes represents the frame number. On some models (again, see my post #557 above) you will see that the front upright can be placed into one of two holes in the swivel arm to accommodate different saw lengths.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks, Doc. So is it a general rule with these that the higher the # the more "deluxe" you get - withstanding getting into the 1000s?


----------



## DocBailey

I don't know if I 'd go that far …

To me, personally, the 2XX and 3XX boxes are as good as the Stanleys get.

I'd say that as the Stanleys go, you're better off remembering the few numbers that make up the boxes you're interested in.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome. Good to know.


----------



## JayT

Shameless plea for spare parts. I need one of the screw down clamps that hold the connecting bar at the top of the saw guides for a Stanley 246 miter box. Anyone happen to have an extra floating around or have any idea where I could find one?










I could make something that would work, but would prefer to use a correct replacement if possible. If anyone has one that would work, drop me a PM with what you would want for it.


----------



## walden

Great information Doc. I agree about the 2xx and 3xx being better. My brother has a 346 if my memory is correct. He can adjust the posts to make sure it has a perfect cut. I have a 2358 which doesn't have that feature. I lucked out that mine still cuts perfectly, so no need for adjustment.

Also great to know what the numbers mean. Mine came with a 28 inch saw that has 4 5/8 inches under the back. A career carpenter owned it before me, so I'm sure it lost the other 3/8 from filing.


----------



## DocBailey

walden's comment reminds me of a few other pointers on saw sharpening specifically for miter saws …

A thorough jointing of the teeth of miter saws before sharpening is of paramount importance, since 1) all the teeth need to do the same amount of work; and 2) the constraints of the box setup mean that only a certain section of the toothed edge will ever be in contact with the workpiece, and will wear more rapidly than other types of saws.

Also, regardless of how you feel about them in general, sloped gullets make a lot of sense in mitre saw sharpening, due to their ability to hold (and dispose of) sawdust.


----------



## walden

Sorry, party foul on my part. If I'm going to talk about the miter box, I should post a pic. The saw is a Disston.


----------



## DocBailey

That looks great - and you seem to have all the bits-I would say late 1950s or thereabouts


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, Doc. Extreme wisdom on the thread today, you've attained an even higher level of respect from this LJ.


----------



## johnstoneb

Thanks Doc. Do you have any links that a person could go to. I can find info on the 2xx and 3xx but very little on the 22xx and 23xx.
Do you have any idea what the age on mine might be given the label reads Stanley Rule and Level.
I'm just curious this will be a user. I started cleaning tonight took it apart and ran everything through a dishwasher. That cleaned most of the crud off. The paint is pretty good. The board may be the original board.


----------



## DocBailey

*Smitty*
you are far too kind-just a partial brain dump from doing this for so long.
While we are at-thank *you* for starting this thread in the first place!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I hadn't seen a four digit mitrebox from Stanley before Bruce's post and pics. And Walden, that an extremely clean machine, looks awesome.

JayT - I need a closer pic of the part you seek, I might be able to help…


----------



## DocBailey

johnstoneb

It's tough to date these, as they seemed to go unchanged for many years at a time.
Sometimes you get lucky (see the very first post in this thread)-we know when the SW (Sweetheart) era was.
In later years, the metal plate design changed, and still later, the paint scheme changed.

My best guess is that yours is from the 1940s, but that's about as specific as I can be.


----------



## walden

Thanks Smitty. I have been drooling over some of the pics I have seen of your shop. We should all do a road trip to your place. You could charge us for beer and popcorn and give us the tour.


----------



## JayT

Thanks, Smitty. I'll see if I can snap and post one tonight between work and my woodworkers guild meeting.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Walden, it is a well-documented shop… Most Discussed is its sole claim to fame at this point. Maybe it'll be the birthplace of awesome craftwork someday, but not yet.


----------



## WoodAndShop

Here are some photos of Roy Underhill's miter box saws and a couple of mine: http://woodandshop.com/woodworking-hand-tool-buying-guide-handsaws/


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, Joshua. Very nice website, exceptional photos. Well done, thanks for contributing here!


----------



## WoodAndShop

Thanks Smitty! I've put a lot of effort into creating a resource for hand tool woodworkers, so it makes me feel happy to hear that people appreciate it.


----------



## JayT

What the????? I posted a couple photos of the part I was needing about four hours ago. Come back to check the thread and my whole post is gone.

I'll try again.

Here is the part I am needing for the miter box










Here is what the rear one looks like. No, I didn't break it, it was that way when I bought the miter box.


----------



## Airframer

JayT - I may have one available soon. I just bought this SW No 246 and if it arrives in one piece I might be able to send you one from my other box which I have just about determined to not be worth messing with at this point. On my 356 the adjuster arm had been brazed and it wasn't done straight which will considerably effect the use of the miter box so it's a mantle piece I think.

NOW.. what got me excited about this guy was.. for a $79 BIN and free shipping.. see if you guys can spy the exciting thing in this picture…


----------



## DocBailey

It almost appears as though attached to the top tie bar is the elusive trip clamp & screw which attaches to the saw spine just ahead of the handle. It triggers the automatic catch release (which when locked, keeps the saw locked above the workpiece).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's what i see as well… Could it be?

There's also at least one piece of original rod visible to the bottom left.


----------



## Airframer

Good eye Doc! It does appear to be the elusive white whale piece of the vintage Stanley miter boxes lol. Pretty excited about that.


----------



## Airframer

Here is the listing. If you zoom in on some of the pics you can find all sorts of parts that are usually missing. I am reserving any excitement till it actually arrives but it's getting pretty hard to do lol.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291126725081?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## DocBailey

For anyone who wonders what the heck we're talking about (and if we've lost our minds)-here's a picture of the only part on Stanley miter boxes which proves even more elusive than the length stop stand ("tree")

trip clamp & screw


----------



## johnstoneb

Eric that box looks nice. It looks like it is missing the stock guides that hold the lumber in the box but the guide clamps are there and missing one of the original stop rods. Stan Faulin's page has a good parts breakdown on those boxes and also tells you how to make your own stock guides. You've definitely got the piece for the saw.


----------



## johnstoneb

According to Stanley they came out with the 2xxx series miter boxes to cut down on the parts in the box. Below is my 2246 almost completely disassembled. The saw guide that is in the miter arm has a set screw and nut still installed in it and I found I am missing an adjustment screw that adjusts the tension on the miter arm lock. All these parts with the exception of the frame and one brass part in the miter arm are in the Krud Kutter getting derusted. I am trying to find a place in Boise that has citric acid to try on the frame. I am not buying that much Krud Kutter/Evaporust to soak the frame in.










This box and the other 2xxx boxes appear to be almost identical to the 2xx and 3xx boxes until you get to the saw guides and hardware. This is where stanley cut back on the parts.
Stan Faulin has a good site with instruction manuals and parts breakdown on the 2xx & 3xx boxes.
http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/index.htm
That's where I found I needed an adjustment screw to fill the threaded hole in the bottom of the miter arm clamp.


----------



## Slyy

Wow, a lot going on in here the last couple days! Nice to see it. My mother recently found a mitre box that was my dad's, no clue what it's make is (I suspect a late stanley, 70's-80's). Will find out next time I head home.

Joshua, those pictures are great! I've started to have a real hankering for Millers Falls related tools, that mitre box is a beaut!


----------



## racerglen

Bruce, try a "natural" foods store, health food store as well as you'r local you brew it beer shop for the citric acid, mine came from a health food place, 200 grams for just over 3 bucks..and don't tell anyone.."Made in CHINA' WT..F, H..etc..


----------



## johnstoneb

The 2246 is ready for a saw. I got impatient instead of trying a large container and citric acid on the frame and rods. I went with my Krud Kutter container and soaked what would fit and kept the rest wet, after a few minutes I scrubbed with steel wool and kept things soaking or wet. It took about 20 minutes but they came out looking pretty good. The paint is probably over 90%. It is surprising what a littlle lubication in the right places will do. When I first started on this the parts barely moved, there is no lateral movement in the pin locks on the miter arm.




























I had to replace the wood on the table. The old piece looked serviceable but when I started to put it back on it had about a 1/4" of twist in it and some of the screw holes were worn to the point they wouldn't pull it down straight without stripping.
If you look closely you will see it is missing the 2 pricking screws in the frame that are use to hold the wood. and it is missing the adjustment screw in the miter lock that holds the miter arm in the single degree adjustment. Stanley has carried over from the planes their habit of using none standard thread pitches. It looks like it should be 5/16×24NF. That size bolt will start but won't go any farther and when I tried a thread chaser it did the same thing. Guess I will have to look for the actual part.










I am very happy the way this came out. I just need to find a saw and it will be in business.


----------



## DonBroussard

Bruce-Man, that came together REALLY nice! I hope you find a matching saw to make it a complete unit again. Here's my entry for Stupid Question of the Day: What do the 24, 12, 8 and other markings on the angle scale represent? I know they're not degrees.


----------



## johnstoneb

They are for the number of sides a frame or other project would have if cut at that angle. You don't have to work the math for the angle. If it is a six sided box you just put it to six and a pin locks it at that angle.


----------



## DocBailey

John

Nice job bringing that one back to life.

Your last photo shows the underside of the pin that locks the arm into one of the pre-set holes.
That part is screaming "Oil me!" (and any other moving parts).


----------



## theoldfart

Since everyone but me seems to have a Stanley mitre box, i've only got a GP all steel w/Simonds mitre saw, I found this on CL


















Needs some work, and there were a few strange things on it. The first was the bed









The second was 









Pulled the two extra layers off









The restore will have to wait for the bench to be done a;long with another granddaughter project. By the way, it set me back $10.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's the way ya' do it, Kevin! Looks good!


----------



## Airframer

Does anyone know the differences between the frame types (i.e Frame no 2 and frame no 3 etc)? Is it size of design?


----------



## ToddJB

Kev, I'm glad you were finally able to work your way into the clique. Just so you are not looked down upon for being wishy-washy or uncommitted to the club, you can send me the GP… I'm willing to take your former outcast shame.


----------



## theoldfart

The saw by the way









Not seeing an etch, cast steel on the spine.


----------



## theoldfart

Todd, thanks for the support. As to the GP, it's actually much bigger than this one and we've formed an attachment so to speak. We're inseparable!!


----------



## shampeon

Um, someone better call TOF an ambulance.


----------



## johnstoneb

Doc That was a pre cleanup shot. I'm trying to show the adjustment screw that is missing. It has all been lubed up and works smooth.

TOF nice box. It sometimes make you wonder what people were thinking when they do some things.


----------



## DonBroussard

Bruce-Thanks for the "instructional". Now I know what those numbers are for. Do more modern miter boxes have protractor markings along with the "sides" markings? I'm thinking of beginning a quest for a good vintage box and saw pair, and it'd be good to know what to look for. I've seen the trials some of the posters here have gone through looking for original parts to replace missing or broken parts, so I'm trying to get educated before the quest begins.


----------



## DocBailey

Don,
Not sure I know what you mean by the "more modern" boxes, but most of the Stanleys have degrees inscribed along the face of the casting, with "sides" markings cast on the topside of the curved casting.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks for the clarification, Doc. Learned something again. That's what I was referring to about the protractor angles. I was thinking that "more modern" boxes, like in the mid- to late-1900's would be more likely to have both. I'll have to remember to check for both markings when I go shopping.


----------



## ksSlim

Johnstoneb> If that thread is like other Stanley screws/bolts, its a 9/32-24 thread. (Whitworth)


----------



## johnstoneb

It is definitely 5/16. I would guess the thresd pitch at about a 26. I got brave and using my thread chaser ran it through the threads and it pushed things around enough that a 5/16×24 goes in with my fingers. I now have a serviceable lock for all angles not just the presets.

Glen: I did find some citric acid powder at a health food store. I got a pound of it. At the price they wanted when that is gone I'll go online and get it there.


----------



## theoldfart

OK this is it. Last one, I swear.


















Acme 740. The saw is a Diston-Porter, guessing it is some sort of hardware seller


















Saws plenty sharp, no etch


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Porter bought Disston, I believe. It wasn't long after they moved production…


----------



## racerglen

Bruce, yep, taint cheep buying that way, but after I found it thought give it a shot..never did get to my U brew, I understand they've got it as well.


----------



## Airframer

My #246 arrived today! That was QUICK!

Opened the box and was blown away at how clean this is already. It does need a bit of scrubbing but really not much.

PICS!










And YES it has the cam thingy!



















She's a Sweetheart too!  The saw even has the SW logo etch (very faint though.. might try to gun blue that a bit).



















It also came with a couple partial hard to find bits.. will have to fabricate the rest.


----------



## Airframer

I just finished pulling it completely apart (save for the uprights from their bases.. again these are frozen and I think I'll leave them be… don't want a repeat of last time!)

Man these things have about a billion little screws and parts don't they? I had to remember to take a pic of each part as it was coming off so I can remember how it goes back together when I'm done lol.










The wood base is in OK shape but it does have some pretty deep grooves in the more popular angles.. would you guys give it a new one or keep this one in service a bit longer?


----------



## johnstoneb

Looking good. Every one of those parts is necessary. Stanley's engineers must have been really bored when they started the design on the miter boxes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

New boards without cut lines ate like a zero-clearance insert, in a way. Reduces blow-out at the bottom of the cut. Your call, depends in results you desire.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, thing looks like a jigsaw puzzle.Also I'm with Smitty on the new base, it will reduce the blowout.

Are you going to part out the old box? The 244 I picked up does not have the lower depth stops and spings and the like. I would be interested if some to sell.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm gonna start restoring mine tomorrow. Only thing I know I'm missing is one of the little hook/catches that hold the saw up.


----------



## Airframer

I'm still on the fence about what I want to do with my other one. I'm still thinking about getting it in working order eventually but if I ever decide to part it out you guys will know for sure!

Red - If you take it apart like I did.. I STRONGLY urge you to take LOTS of pics for reference later. Literally a ton of tiny screws and bits that all have to go a certain way back together. Also….. if the bolt/screw won't turn DON'T force it! These things snap off quite easily I have found (ask me how I know lol.) I'm going to mix up some of that brake fluid pen oil that was mentioned a while back and see if I can't get the uprights out of their bases. It will bother me to know they are stuck in rust if the rest is all cleaned up..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hadn't planned on completely parting it out as you have. Just enough to clean it up….but we all know how those things go;-)


----------



## Airframer

Yep.. I started and just kept going lol.

Here is the pen oil info I was talking about… you will probably need this at some point..

Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.
Don't forget the April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparison
test.

*They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with
the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a
"scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oil ….. Average load*

None ….................. 516 pounds
WD-40 …............... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ….......... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ….. 127 pounds
Kano Kroil …......... 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix….53 pounds

*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone.*
*Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one
particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now
use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about
as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

Auto Tranny Fluid (Or Brake Fluid.. heard it actually works better) and Acetone FTW.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

How 'bout that timing. Neighbor brought over the mail I missed. My Mitre saw is back from a Wally restore. New Padauk handle on the Warrented Superior. Pimp:


----------



## Airframer

That is a purty lookin' saw! I hope to be able to do that myself but… never sharpened a saw much less a cross cut saw before so this could get interesting. I have a practice plate ready to go though so might have a chance lol.

In other news… I am pleased to report that the box is now 100% disassembled with no breakage this time thanks to this combo..










50/50 mix of Marvel Mystery Oil and Mineral Spirits. Mixed up in a spray bottle, sprayed it on the area and waited about 5 mins.. came right off with very little persuasion.










Handy info for anyone needing to free a rusted part of some type.


----------



## Airframer

Just a heads up for those in the market.. Here is a looker on Ebay right now.. looks to be damn near complete! I spy the trip AND a complete set of rods with the tree..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-360-Mitre-Box-/321382841407


----------



## planepassion

Wow, that baby is in great shape. Nice accoutrements too. Is the saw period and model appropriate? It looks like it's of a a later vintage to me, but I'm not as familiar withh the 360 as I am with others.


----------



## Airframer

Does anyone out there have one of the stop rod trees handy that they could take a straight on photo of with a measurement reference?


----------



## johnstoneb

Hope these are readable. This is off a 2246 should be the same as 246.


----------



## Airframer

Those are perfect! Thanks man!


----------



## Trakem2

My first post to LJs. Here are some before and after pics of my Goodell-Pratt No. 1306 miterbox. It is 100% complete and all original parts! The saw is a Superior Warranted 6" x 30" , I still need to clean up the saw, but its sharp and works well. This miterbox and saw is a lot more accurate than my power mitersaw!


----------



## DocBailey

*Don't quote me, but …*

I'm pretty sure there are two different sizes of trees-one marked "2"; the other "3-4"

They *may* correspond to the frame sizes/numbers.

repeat: this is just a vague memory, but worth checking out (I am not currently near my boxes)


----------



## Airframer

You are correct doc. 1-2 went with the 1XX 2XX frames and the 3-4 went with the 3XX 4XX frames.


----------



## Airframer

Had a bit of luck rust hunting today. Ran across a "Grab Bag" type package of mitre box parts that go to a #358! I can now fix my larger box up too! It looks like they are from a newer style box but other than the swing arm missing the short hole everything lines up.

So who was missing parts from their uprights? I have extras now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I still need one of the little hooks/catches that go on the top. Not a huge deal though.


----------



## Airframer

If you need the front one I have you covered but if you need the rear one you're out of luck there. These arms are actually missing that very one lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric I could use the stops on the uprights, all of mine are missing. PM me if they are available


----------



## JayT

Eric, I am needing one of the crossbar clamps from the top of an upright.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, I need the front one. That'd be sweet.


----------



## Airframer

The three of yous guys.. send me your shipping info and I'll get the parts out to you next week!


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, you 'da man. Thank you sir.


----------



## Airframer

Boom!










Details and More Pics


----------



## racerglen

Shak a lack a laka !
Nice Eric !


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh sure, deck it out with oak even. Here I was trying to stay original looking with some soft maple and amber shellac;-)


----------



## Airframer

It was oak or poplar and I figured oak could take a beating better than poplar could. Also it looks a bit better lol.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Whatever. I'm sick and tired of your pecker measuring contest…..LOL


----------



## Airframer

As long as we can use your miniature rulers I have a chance ;-)


----------



## GMatheson

That turned out great Eric. Just the motivation I needed to start restoring the box I picked up probably over a year ago and have been using as found.










Today I took it all apart.










Pretty sure mine won't turn out as nice but a derusting and some new paint should pretty it up a bit.


----------



## johnstoneb

Nice job Eric.


----------



## tailwagger

Airframer, congrats. Been watching your plight and it's good to see you finally have a prize. Beautiful!

DocBailey, what can you tell me about the number scheme of a 386? Surely not designed for an 8" wide saw? Apologies if already covered. Thanks!

- Kurt, Lincoln, NE


----------



## Airframer

The first number is the frame type, the second number is the saw length and the third number is the amount of saw plate under the spine.

So..
3 - Frame 3
8 - 28" long saw
6 - 6" deep saw

EDIT - Nope it seems you were on the money - it does seem a 26" long 8" deep saw would be a bit odd.. hmm


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a box just like that Greg. Mine's a Lakeside branded one. Have been using it as is, but the locking and swiveling is a little more difficult than it probably needs to be… might have to see what I can see


----------



## tailwagger

AF, I though it was opposite that, that a 358 would be a 5" deep saw?

EDIT: Looks like you caught it, I see your edit now. Such a mystery to me. Maybe you were right after all, and they switched up the number scheme? Or 8" is depth of cut capacity versus saw depth?


----------



## DocBailey

First off, what is a 386??


----------



## tailwagger

Sorry, Stanley No. 386 Miter Box. I've seen claimed to be the Stanley's largest which, judging by those numbers, I would not argue.


----------



## DocBailey

I personally know of no such Stanley number-maybe it's too new for me (post 1960) and they changed the system/meaning of part numbers

Here are (2) pages; the first is from a 1934 catalog-the biggest box is a 460
Later on, in the 1958 catalog, the box shipping with the same saw specs (30" x 6") is called a 360 [I posted pics of mine somewhere back a ways in this thread)


----------



## Airframer

Doc - you may be right about the age and numbering system. This is the only example of one I could find and it is one of the twp tone gray numbers with the red tag (wherever that would age it to)..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-386-miter-box-with-Atkins-Saw-in-excellent-condition-/281299354973

I can't confirm it's a 386 because you can't read the tag in any of the pics but ya never know. Either way that box comes with a 28×5 saw so it would seem the number have been re-ordered during that later production.


----------



## tailwagger

Doc: Good stuff, thanks. I've only seen mention of it in archived blogs. No photos of tags. Not seen one in person.

AF: Yeah, that's why it's on my radar, lol. Was thinking about making him an offer. Growing weary of finding my dream mitre box which would be a 2 1/2 MFC Langdon with bearings. Stanley in earnest now.


----------



## Airframer

Before you make an offer have him send you a pic of the label. In all honesty it is in good condition but you can find 'em MUCH cheaper than $250. The one I just finished up was $70 shipped and my 358 was $25 +$30 shipping (wish I had more locally available ugh..).


----------



## tailwagger

Your nightmares with broken posts in shipping (and repaired posts) scares me a bit. The only reason I'd even offer this guy is he knows what he's doing and is going to break it down for shipping. He probaby wouldn't take what I'd offer though. Would like to get one locally like off craigslist but I'm in a small population state and not a lot of choices. Might wait for MWTC convention. I assume I could pick one up there.


----------



## tailwagger

Crazy. While feeling sorry for myself typing up previous post, got a call back from a guy an hour from here with a clean 358A with Disston for $40. Been a few days and didn't think I'd hear back from him. I'm assuming made in the 70s as I read about one similar purchased new in 1976. Not the sweet vintage of some, but still well made, solid, cast iron. That will be a pleasure to use while I keep a lookout for my dream mitre box.


----------



## Airframer

That sounds like a better deal. Though… that other one WAS 100% complete.. too bad he wants the crazy lady antique store price for it..


----------



## tailwagger

Lol! Yeah, I asked for a photo of the badge.

Here are the seller's images of the 358A I'm picking up tomorrow…


----------



## tailwagger

Trakem2: Can you post larger pics? They are not much bigger than thumbnail size on my browser. Looks like a pretty box worthy of a better look.


----------



## Trakem2

These turned out better, still figuring out this posting thing! LOL!


----------



## WayneC

I like it. I am a Goodell-Pratt fan in general.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And I'm covetous of those accessories… Needed for my G-P to be 'complete.' Very, very nice Randy!

EDIT: First time I've seen one with all bearings in the post heads, too. Wow…


----------



## Trakem2

Got lucky with this one. Purchased from Ebay for $74+$13 shipping and the only bidder! Feel the price was worth it considering it was complete.


----------



## DocBailey

Wow - don't know that I've ever seen one so complete


----------



## tailwagger

Sweet, Randy! I never tire of seeing a great old tool cleaned up and restored. Really nice work. Thanks for reposting!


----------



## tailwagger

Doc and AirFramer: The eBay listing was not accurate. The seller apologized saying his eyes aren't what they used to be. The box is a 358. He included below. I bet the other references I found to a 386 were similar stories of a misread badge. Oh, well. Mystery solved. Sorry for any confusion. Still a nice complete box. Wish it were $75 less.










http://www.ebay.com/itm/281323692986?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Evidently this is one of Chris Schwarz' mitre boxes. Anybody know what kind it is? Besides the obvious LN Saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

He's a big Langdon fan…


----------



## woodchuckerNJ

Nice restore Randy.


----------



## WayneC

New on the bay…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H-Disston-and-sons-Vintage-Mitre-Box-and-Saw-/251521305507?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8fd68ba3


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Went to a garage sale this AM, fella had a new grandkid that was more fun that woodworking so he was getting out of the hobby. Anyway, he had a Stanley Mitrebox that was "restored" that he was asking $130 for. It wasn't worth that by any stretch, but it did have the trigger piece on top of the backsaw… I offered him $20 for that part only, he declined. We talked awhile on other things, then I went back with a $30 offer for the part. He declined again.

Rats.

He'd replaced the deck with pine, and the bed 'rods' were missing. It didn't have the length stop rods or tree, either. How the trigger stayed with the saw that whole time I'll never know. First one I'd seen in the flesh. Maybe next time.


----------



## WayneC

I never reveal what exactly I want to buy if it is an item like that. What is the price of the box. How much each for the items in the box, etc. Only then I will I ask about a specific item.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wayne, I agree.

Had to edit my post above: He wanted $130 for the mitrebox. I just wanted the part…


----------



## ToddJB

Smitty, maybe I don't understand. He was asking $30 for the whole box, but wouldn't take $30 for one piece off of it? Why didn't you just buy the whole thing?


----------



## WayneC

That makes sense…


----------



## ToddJB

Ah. Got it now.


----------



## KenCanDO

I am looking for a part for a Stanley Model 60 miter box. I think a Powrkraft 100 is also interchangeable. I am not sure what the part is called. It is the metal push button (actually you place your thumb on the box in the front and pull up on this lever) that releases the saw so you can swivel it to the left or right. It also locks the saw at the different angles. It is screwed into the bottom of the box and I think it is spring loaded. If anyone has any suggestions on where I could get one I would appreciate it.


----------



## DocBailey

*BRK*

That looks to be a MF Langdon 15 1/2 - the whole thing is about a foot long
tough to find and expen$ive

Good call *Smitty*


----------



## DocBailey

*Tailwagger*

thanks for following up


----------



## johnstoneb

This showed up today. I now have a useable 2246. It's an Atkins No 4 and actually sharp. Just a little surface rust on the back. Will get the citric acid on it in a day or two. Then can adjust the box and make some picture frames.



















Looks pretty good just the way it is.


----------



## Airframer

Well I'll be darned.. here is a mitre box with Part #109 installed (the guide arm plate). This is the first one I have seen with it installed.. might hang on to some epics for referance later..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-STANLEY-Mitre-Box-358-Patented-1-12-04-8-2-04-3-15-04-9-27-04-/151292051519?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2339b5803f


----------



## planepassion

Smitty, nice! I like the way you're working that parts rust hunting. Keep at it. You will succeed.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric, I have a box with that quarter-sized thing on the deck. What is it?


----------



## Airframer

It is listed as Part #109 and called a Swivel Guide Plate (highlighted)



















It is sunk flush into the deck and allows you to move the guide bars to the deck and use it as a stop for crown molding or other assorted complex angled cuts. Super jealous of you having one lol.


----------



## Mosquito

I've seen many shop made planes, a handful of saws made in the shop, but has anyone seen or heard of someone going so far as shop made miter box? 'cause I won't lie, the idea has been rolling around in my head lately for some reason


----------



## lateralus819

Here ya go Mos. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/SteamPunkMitrebox.html

I've been wanting to make one too.


----------



## Airframer

Have you seen this yet Mos?

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/SteamPunkMitrebox.html


----------



## Mosquito

lol ^ nice

Derek's miterbox looks sweet, but I was thinking full size, and not magnetic. Was thinking something similar to a Goodall Pratt design, though that would make things a might bit more difficult


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For my friend Airframer:


----------



## johnstoneb

I finished the cleanup on the saw for my 2246, sanded and put a coat of lacquer on the handle.










Adjusted everything got a fairly tight miter in western red cedar, got some tear out in that soft wood tightest miter I have ever cut.


----------



## Airframer

Smitty - A big you suck for having that little guy lol. I'll probably end up making one but who knows.. might get lucky.

Pretty sure this was stored on the ocean floor but I have a tree.. And the second rod I needed. Complete with 1 seized thumb screw and one broken off screw that will require some use of an easy out once it has soaked a while in pen oil.



















Already got one out with my magic concoction lol..










Onward and upward!


----------



## JayT

Picked up this Stanley 150 miter box with accompanying 14in Disston back saw this past weekend.










Gave it nearly the full Airframer treatment



















When I took the tote off the saw, it was very evident that the spine had been blued. I don't know if Disston sold them that way originally or not, but since it was there, went back with it.










Tote was in good shape, just cleaned off the paint spatters with some steel wool and put on a coat of Danish Oil. HFS a previous owner or a school? Doesn't matter, we kept it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I really have never seen one of those Jay. Looks cool.

I'm guessing it belonged to Herbert Fredrick Schlickdameister. Just a guess.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jay, love that #150, nice refurb. I want one now.


----------



## chrisstef

Ive been using my little 150 for a few weeks now and I like it. Ive got it paired with a 16" Langdon / Disston saw. Its got a little bit of slop in it that ive got to figure out but for quick cuts on small pieces I love it. Im still coveting some of the larger boxes out there. One day.


----------



## JayT

Stef, where's the slop? After fully dis- and re-assembling this one, I might have a couple insights. They are very simple compared to the 2 & 3 series boxes. Next up is refurbing my 246-it's going to take longer.


----------



## chrisstef

I think its in those clamp plates. Ive scabbed a thumbscrew from my #80 to replace the missing one. Im not sure if its not pinching the plate of the saw well enough or whats going on but I noticed a wayward cut in my sacrificial board the other night. I took the whoel thing apart and found some japanning underneath the rear swivel arm and flattened it out much like the sole of a plane so I don't think the problem is there.

Edit: Hmm, now that I see your sacrificial board im not sure if its a problem. I had a cut that was about 1/16 or so off of another cut that I had previously made.


----------



## JayT

A couple things I can think of to check off the top of my head. The left side plate should have a v-shaped flat spring behind it. If that is broken or missing it could wobble. The arm that holds the plates could also be loose inside it's clamp on the right side.

The only other thing would be making sure the swivel mechanism is tight. That was really loose on mine when I picked it up because the two opposing screws weren't set right. That one would be pretty obvious, though.


----------



## chrisstef

Im pretty sure that all of those parts are functional but ill double check it before I use it again. I probably just went full tard on the cut and hacked away like some kind of animal and it got a little out of whack on me.


----------



## JayT

Yeah, the miter stops and lock are not real robust on that little thing. You can't go all caveman on it like you do with hog and Tony.


----------



## planepassion

JT, I'm liking the restoration you did on the Stanley #150. How does it cut? Would love to see some action shots


----------



## JayT

What? We're supposed to actually USE the tools? When did that happen?

Actually, Brad, it cuts pretty decent and will be even better once the saw gets touched up. It's at the kinda sharp stage-sharp enough to cut, but not enough to cut really clean. I'll see about some action shots, it just might be a while.


----------



## GMatheson

So here is a quick update on my miterbox restoration.










Got all the parts polished up.










And giving the rest a coat of paint. I decided to go black instead of the original grey because I thought that a darker base color would contrast better with the bare metal parts and look it should look pretty good with the red bed.










Too bad there wasn't enough paint in the can to finish.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm pretty sure that I'm a millionaire based on these prices. AND shipping's included!


----------



## JayT

For that price, I'd expect it hand delivered by some of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit models.


----------



## theoldfart

Ya Think?


----------



## Airframer

All ya'll waiting on parts they are in the mail finally. Sorry for the delay but I didn't have much time recently to pull everything apart and packaged up *hides*

And in other news…. I think I might actually have a sickness..










The top one is the SW 358 in the restore que finally fully dissasembled and the bottom one is slightly newer parts box to replace the broken bits on the SW.

And here is what the parts box came with.. When it rains…










I also scored a tree for my #246










Only thing left to find/make for the #246 are the hold down bars. I simply cannot help myself now!


----------



## theoldfart

Funny thing about that sickness, the local CL just put up a 346 w/saw but no trees or release. $35. must resist, already have four boxes.
Eric, glad to see you out and about. We wuz worried buddy.


----------



## Tim457

Oh, but for $35, you NEED that one too, OF.

I'm pretty sure if I took apart two mitre boxes at the same time there would not be a chance they would go back together correctly. Even with pictures. Good to have you alive, Eric.


----------



## GMatheson

I will be picking up this little Stanley 150 on Saturday. It should compliment the big Langdon nicely I think.

(Seller's pic)









And I just noticed I forgot to put the restored pic of my Langdon on this thread so to tie up loose ends here it is.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ that is an incredibly fine refurb, Greg. Well done!


----------



## planepassion

Greg, did you build a dedicated miterbox station or is it simply sitting on a garden bench? Beautiful restore!


----------



## GMatheson

Thats my saw bench Brad. I am in the process of building a shelf to store it below my saw till and will be mounting it to a piece of ash. I don't have the room right now for a dedicated station so it will just go back and forth from the shelf to the bench


----------



## DonBroussard

Okay, fellas. I picked this up this morning for about $50.


















Backplate says "Langdon Mitre Box Co.; Millers Falls, Mass.; Patd. Aug. 20, 73"









Medallion says "Disston Phila" with regular saw nuts-no split nuts. 24-½" plate with "Henry Disston and Son, Philada USA, Cast Steel Warranted" on the spine.









Angle is set with the spring-loaded trigger and detents in the base.

Only thing I noticed is that the both feet on the base on the right side are broken. And of course, the saw doesn't match the box. The wooden base needs to be replaced.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.


----------



## shampeon

Very nice, Don. That casting is amazing.


----------



## Tim457

That's awesome Don. My Langdon has a Disston saw like that too. I think the only thing that says Langdon on it is the etch. I'll look when I get home.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Tim. Are you thinking that the Disston could be original to my mitre box?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, look for an etch on the plate. My Diston has a Diston etch and the spine has Langdon on the spine


----------



## DonBroussard

Kevin-Nice clean etch on your saw. Mine has Disston on the spine. I looked for the etch and I did find something, although very faint-but not Langdon. I found Disston in the etch as well as "Stanley Rule and Level". I thought the "DON" I saw was the end of "Langdon" but it was part of "New London". I'll include a picture of the etch but the picture quality is not suitable for framing.










The plot thickens . . .


----------



## theoldfart

Don, yea the saw was with a Stanley box no doubt. Your box is a recreation of the original Langdon from Northampton. Miller Falls/Langdon made them before they moved to Greenfield. I'll get dates for you shortly.

Edit: on second thought you can look here

It's a good reference for Langdon

Second edit. Here is yours


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks again, Kevin-good resource. Looks like I'll be looking for a saw to match the box, AND and box to match the saw I have! I did notice later that my box is missing the two screws on the saw guides to hold the saw in the UP position. Looks like they are ¼-28 screws.

I'll put some effort into cleaning it up and see if I can find a manufacturer's plate with model and/or serial numbers.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, those aren't just screws! They have a spring loaded ball that fits into a groove on the saw support.


----------



## DonBroussard

I thought I read in that resource you linked that they were 1/4-28 screws. Glad I didn't get tv hose screws and make 'em fit! Are those spring-loaded ball things still available as parts?


----------



## theoldfart

Not sure. I can watch the flea markets around here and see if something shows up.

EDIT: Don, i looked at the pics again and I've got it wrong. Those do not look like spring loaded holders. More like just plain screws. Does it look like there is something between the screw and the post? i would think the screw would scar the post over time.


----------



## DonBroussard

Kevin-They look like treaded holes. Maybe there was a piece of leather to keep from buggering up the post?

Just an update on the Langdon box I picked up yesterday. I had noticed while I was there yesterday that there was a Stanley box as well. Out of curiosity, I went back this morning to see if they might have switched the saws. I think they are the same size. Nope. Another Disston medallion but too rusty to see a spine stamp or an etch. I'll keep and clean up the saw I already have until a Landgon-branded saw follows me home.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I'll keep my eyes open in my travels. I have found two or three in the past year!


----------



## DonBroussard

BTW, I did check on those screw holes. They are not through holes, so I'm not really sure what their function is, other than something connects to the supports.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, i'm dense. Those are probably for depth stops. Here's what mine looks like.


----------



## GMatheson

Hard to get a clear pic of the etch but my mitresaw has Disston on the spine and a Langdon Mitre Box Co etch










Here is a better pic of the etch










And one of the full saw










Here is a pic of my post. Has the spring loaded on one side and the depth stop screw on the other










And here is the Stanley 150 I brought home today


----------



## theoldfart

My go to mitre saw is a Simonds badged for GP

















Etch is for GP and the spine is stamped for Simonds
the two bigger saws


----------



## theoldfart

Don, look here on EBay. It's the same box as yours and you can see what originally fit the screw holes


----------



## DonBroussard

I see now. Additional parts missing-mine doesn't have those springs or the support posts nor the cool thumbscrews. I did note that the BIN price was $180. Nice Simonds/GP box as well. Thanks for all the info, Kevin-much appreciated.

Gmath-Nice etch on the Landgon. I'll be looking for a similar one for my box too. BTW, nice Stanley 150.


----------



## 7Footer

I've been on the watch lately for a mitre box but as with most of this vintage tool stuff I'm a newb. This worth taking a look for $45? I'll obviously try and get him down on the price a little bit but it looks pretty decent.. Its a Stanley #358, appears to be mostly complete… What is the 'tree' for? Looks like it's there on the bottom right side in the first pic….


----------



## ToddJB

Looks worth $45 to me.


----------



## ToddJB

It looks to be missing both stock guides.

Edit: Actually I think one stock guide is sitting on the bed there. So maybe just missing one.


----------



## ToddJB

Also, the tree is a depth stop.

View a homemade one here:

http://pith.b10l.com/stanley-358-mitre-box-restoration/


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The tree is worth $25 all by itself. Definitely worth a look!


----------



## Mosquito

I'd say worth a look too


----------



## 7Footer

Sweet, thanks gents. It's still available, now I just gotta make time to go meet the guy.


----------



## Airframer

Definitely worth $45 all day long. I am curious about the apparatus on top of the base board. That doesn't look original to a Stanley box and could be a user addition but I look forward to better pics! Curiouser and curiouser…


----------



## ToddJB

AF, do you not think that's a stock guide?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks more like a guide taken off a Goodell Pratt…


----------



## Airframer

I'd have to agree with Smitty. That doesn't look like the stock hold downs on a Stanley box. Here are some pics of those..

The long one is an original one for a #358 and the short one is one I made for my #246


----------



## Airframer

Doc suggested I cross post this here..

I finally finished my SW #246 Mitre Box. I still need to sharpen the saw up but everything is clean and ready to go so I am calling this done. I spent a lot of time trolling for the hard to find accessories and I was finally able to get this box 100% complete and am pretty excited about that.

I tried to get a pic of the etch but it is too light to get on camera but it does have a SW etch still!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ that there is beautiful…


----------



## theoldfart

Picked up a complete GP with a Diston saw









Has a decent etch


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Agck!! I need those parts!!! ;-)

My search continues…


----------



## theoldfart

Smtty, thought you might say something. :0)


----------



## Buckethead

Smitty, I just picked up a Stanley. Probably overpaid. I can spot a couple screws that have been added, some looseness, which might be fixable, and I don't have that thing you just posted (edit:a few pages back) , although I do have two rods.

I'm looking to find out what pieces are missing. And maybe any other info/tips pertinent to this unit.

Here's a couple shots.




























The saw that came with it, is a Simonds with a Sweetheart logo etching. I presume it is made by Simonds for Stanley. 
It's in decent shape with only minor pitting, but I believe it will require a good sharpening. This is looking like a daunting task. :-/

Edit… I must have been a few pages back. Smitty, you posted a pick of a part you apparently got from Don which is part of the Rod assembly. (Which I have yet to learn the function of)


----------



## Buckethead

Whole nother edit: I just backpedaled and saw the blog that Todd posted. That apparatus is for using the rods as a stop gauge for repeat cuts. Check.

And the site is quirking. It wouldn't let me edit in a pic of the saw. Two saws here, but methinks you guys will know which one.
Oh. And I paid $40 for it including the saw. I suppose not bad.


----------



## ToddJB

Bucket that's not bad at all. Ebay prices are at least double that.


----------



## Airframer

That's a hell of a deal! What model is that? 246 or 358?

If you follow along on my handtool blog I have a few mitre box resto posts and am in the middle of another one right now.. might help you out some.. probably not though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, that's a fine purchase!

Does yours have places for these screw points either side of the work










And the tree piece for rods:










You have the rod coupler:


----------



## Buckethead

It is a 358. I watched you refurb of one of these, Eric, and it is the sole reason I felt groggy enough to take a leap at buying this. Yours was a masterpiece. I'm not sure I'll commit the time and effort to achieve such result. The list of projects grows, but so far, I've just bought some rusty metal.

I'm actually wondering if I should just divest of this by selling it. I just took the totes off both saws, and because there is etching, I'm just using steel wool. This will take forever. I need to focus on joinery if I'm ever going to make any furniture. I think I may have caught the rust bug, so despite it being a satisfactory purchase from the perspective of price, I'm feeling like I don't have the time to mess with it. (Damn. Just had a bout of clarity. Disregard. It'll pass soon enough)

;-)


----------



## Buckethead

Smitty, I think it does have those screw point (holes?). There are two screws sticking out the back









If that is it… But no holes on the front unless they're hidden by the add on wood plate.

What parts are you missing, Smitty?


----------



## Airframer

Today is your lucky day then Bucket…. I happen to have an extra Tree for a 358 . Let me know if you are interested.


----------



## Buckethead

Les doo dis. (Translation: conformative. PM coming)

Mine is missing a thumbscrew at the top.perhaps you've one of those as well?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Only missing the trip piece.


----------



## Buckethead

Is this the piece Eric had gloated over a month or two back? Is it missing on my box?


----------



## Airframer

I can't tell.. this is what a trip looks like..










Also could you take a pic of where you are missing the thumb screw you mentioned? Just so I know which one you are needing.


----------



## Buckethead

There's also what might be missing wing screws at the "spring tensioners"? (If you don't know the term, make one up, right?) the springs don't appear to be original either.










I also must be missing the cattle whomper, or trip, or whatever it's called. ;-)

What function does it perform?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm lacking the cattle whomper, too. Damn…

The saw can be suspended (somewhat precariously) over the work piece; with the trip in place, one hand on the stuff and the other on the saw, the trip releases the saw by mechanically tripping the hold. It's cool. Not critical, just really cool.

The wing nuts at the top ofthe ftat bar are knurled bolts. At the base of the pillars are thumbscrews.


----------



## Buckethead

I hope you didn't giggle seeing my pink dust pan.


----------



## Buckethead

Smitty… I struggle with terminology. I appreciate the help!

Also, I notice that my PC typing has many more mistakes regarding punctuation and capitalization since I've been using the iOS tablet most often. It does too much for us, methinks.


----------



## Woodscrapper

Nice work Airframer on the 246! Has the handle been modified on the Disston backsaw? I have refurbished a Stanley 358 and used it recently in remodeling a bathroom. The saw has all of the original parts. Nothing like using old hand tools to do the job!


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Woodscrapper. Yep the handle had been modified ages ago I recon and I decided to leave it that way.

Bucket - OK, I don't have the thumbscrew you need but you have options. Read this http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/stan-mbox/crossbar.htm he describes some options for replacing that thumb screw if it is missing.


----------



## 7Footer

Not MB of your dreams material, but she'll clean up nice once I get her home and give her a rubdown, not bad for $35 (I think), missing 1 stock guide but looks complete other than that….. Stanley 358



























Edit: and the saw is very sharp, someone definitely sharpened it recently, bonus!


----------



## DonBroussard

I disassembled my Langdon Millers Falls Mitre Box yesterday. Unlike Airframer's Stanley mitre box rehabs, it looks like mine has WAY fewer parts. Without counting screws and the saw itself, I only have a dozen total parts. I know I have a few screws missing (on the mitre box, but I have a few missing too).

i did realize the the cutting platform was hiding two other patent dates on the split back panels. I cleaned the one on the right with a brush attachment in an electric drill. Does anyone have one similar that could tell me what the colors of the back panels, platform and legs were? I'm guessing black. Also, does anyone have the right leg set, or if the leg set from another mitre box will match? The flanges on the right one are both broken-still functional but makes it easier to anchor down to the base.










Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Airframer

Here's one for the experts out there. I need help identifying this box I just picked up.

It appears (purely speculation and most likely to be wrong) that it falls in a time frame somewhere between the 50 1/2 series and the more common 2XX 3XX series Stanley boxes. It is the same size as my 246 but no model numbers on it just 3 patent dates. The most intriguing part is the saw guides have a catch mechanism I have never seen before and bearing guides.

The catches engage into a notch cut into the very top of the uprights and is release with a sliding spring that releases when bumped by the saw so no trip needed. The upright bases are rounded like the 50, 50 1/2 series but the swing arm is more like the more common 2XX 3XX Series so it is kinda an enigma for me. All the weirdness of it is what made me pull the trigger on it.. lord knows I don't need more mitre boxes but WTH… I have caught the disease I guess lol.

Sorry about the blurry pics but was in a hurry..





































Note no holes for the stock guide bar assembly..



















Anyone have any ideas on this one?


----------



## DocBailey

Compare yours with this illustration from the 1914 Stanley catalog.










As I've written here before, you can only go so far in typing these boxes, since i) they changed little over time, and ii) the illustrations often did not change to keep up with improvements in the boxes.

you can see that the model illustrated does not have the rods stored below.
I don't currently have one of these anymore, so I can't check this out, but it is possible that the box is numbered where shown in the illustration.


----------



## Airframer

Based on that I would put this somewhere in the "Type 1" 358 category if one existed. The hook and trip mechanism seems to be a bit of a prototype that was later abandoned for the type in the 1914 pic.

Upon a closer inspection I have discovered that one of the saw guides is not original to the box and is from a much more recent box hence the bearings annnnnd..

First the Jackwagon that shipped this shipped it in a 3 1/2' X 3 1/2' X 3 1/2' box.. the thing was MASSIVE and it arrived by it's self in the box. As in no other packing materials included just the mitre box unsecured in this giant box. At first I was surprised to see it arrived just fine despite it's accommodations but last night I noticed something that almost made me puke…










I am going to try and JB weld it but I may not actually do anything with this box other than make it a conversation piece of some kind.

HOWEVER.. it did come with 2 of the elusive part #109 hidden on the back! I almost missed them at first 










Now I just need to figure out what size screws these were mounted with (smallest I have is #6×3/8 and a #6 is still a bit big in the head) and get them installed on my other 2 boxes..


----------



## ToddJB

If you were gonna paint it brazing would be an option.


----------



## DocBailey

I say braze it and make it a solid repair.

Your latest photos are interesting

Are the screws, used to attach the #109s to the back side of the box, pointed?

Do they protrude through to the other side of the rear fence and act to stop the workpiece from slipping?


----------



## Airframer

Yep those are the pointed screws which is why I almost missed those parts. Seems the previous owner used the pointed screws to store these on the back of the box (pretty good idea really) and yes they do protrude through the front of the fence.


----------



## WayneC

I saw this miter box today.

Millers Falls with a Disston Saw. Worth picking it up? Price I should pay?


----------



## August

Thanks smithy for this link.

Ok I need help I want to own a mitter box.
Is eBay a good place to buy my first one?
And what brand will be a good buy?


----------



## shampeon

Wayne: Assuming it's in good condition and complete, $40 would be a very good deal, $80 would be priced about right, $120 would be too much.

From what I've seen, eBay isn't the best place to look for these boxes, as they're priced higher and the shipping charges add a lot to the cost. I got mine on eBay for $70 total, but that was because it was a rebadged one for a hardware store.

Craigslist, garage sales, and flea markets are where the good deals are, because they're bulky, old, and people just want to get rid of them, but you're at the mercy of local supply.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wayne, looks very much like one I had once. Decent enough box, nearly indestructible. I'd be a buyer (if I were you) at about $40 for a good deal.


----------



## Mosquito

I picked up my miter box from an antique store locally, and paid $70. It still needs a little cleaning, but it does work just fine. That's about the range I'd be willing to pay, anything more and it better be in really good shape for me.


----------



## WayneC

I think I could get the Millers Falls for $45 but wonder if I should not wait for one that is in really nice shape.


----------



## planepassion

Uh…a MFs miterbox and saw in "really nice shape" taint gonna run you $45.00…So long as it's serviceable and all the parts are there, it may be worth it to pull the trigger.

That said. I did, find a 73C in near-mint condition for a screaming price. But it was at an estate sale and you can't count on those.


----------



## Bundoman

I have one just like it. Lucked into mine for $25. Really like mine and would have paid the $45 to get one. Mine was missing a couple small parts.


----------



## bandit571

$5 at a Barn Sale the other day









Craftsman 22" Mitre saw









Saw plate is straight, rollers move easily. Turntable moves freely.









Don't know IF this had any hold down rods, there is no holes for extension rods.









I think those red handles are to lock the saw in the "Up" position? There is a pointer of some sort at the bottom of the guide rod









That is a Craftsman medallion. Don't know if there will be an etch under all that red stuff, I think the markings were silkscreened on…


----------



## Airframer

Heads Up Smitty!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MITER-SAW-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-NO-RESERVE-/201129434155?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed43f9c2b

Nothing special about the box but it has a trip and no reserve.. worth watching.


----------



## Airframer

Hello, My name is Eric and I may have a problem.. (really I can stop anytime i want!)

I have this on it's way to me as we speak.



















It will need some work to undo what was "done" to it but that leaves just the 244 and 360 to complete the set! (Why I need a full set of Sweetheart Stanley Mitre boxes is beyond me but it is now a full on compulsion lol).


----------



## racerglen

A "set" hmm, me thinks thou dost indeed need help…but sheesh the end results are verey nice Eric !


----------



## Buckethead

Looool. I gots a 358 I'll sell you, Eric!


----------



## ToddJB

Guru's this looks pretty complete to me… does it look it to you?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like the deck is partially missing, but that's NBD. Yes, looks pretty solid to me. Tote on the saw looks great, too. Those are typically abused, for some reason.


----------



## ToddJB

Yea, I saw the split deck. And it looks like the pitting is bad at the tooth line, but all the way at the front which shouldn't effect it's cut. Taking a long lunch break to head up there. Dude was asking $100 last week, but just dropped it to $50.


----------



## donwilwol

its even got the typically missing cross rod and hanger catches.


----------



## ToddJB

Just got it. Heading back to work now. One broken piece and one bonus item. Pics to follow.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice!


----------



## Tim457

$50, nice. Is this your first one or are you feeding an AF style collection? It's even got the tree thing on the side that AF was searching for.


----------



## Airframer

Looks to be a complete SW era box you got there. Is it a 358? Or 360? (If it's a SW 360 we may need to have a chat lol). Trying to judge the size of the saw from the pics. Seems the only thing missing is the Trip. Nice score!

I should be taking possession of a SW 242 today whenever Fedex arrives. Pretty stoked about that. Yesterday I received a newer 246 that had all the accessories necessary to make the 242 complete including another trip 

Now I know how DonW feels when he sees a handplane lol..


----------



## bandit571

Test drive of the Craftsman Mitre saw box









Checking the 90 degree setting for square. Not a bad reflection on the plate









Trimming a chunk of oak to length, set up on a SAW bench. Hey, I can saw sitting down? Glass smooth cut.









Need to find a few "O" rings for the guide roller, though. Medallion on the tote just says "CRAFTSMAN". Haven't found any etch on the plate. Plate did clean up nicely, though.

22" saw. Might be a keeper?


----------



## ToddJB

460.



















Only thing I've found that is broke, but brazed










Came with a really old saw plate cover










Etch is in perfect condition but the camera sucks










And the bonus iteam:










A large square! Perhaps a Melencolia Square?


----------



## Airframer

Wow! That is the first Frame no 4 box I have seen! Definitely a unique box there and worth the money paid!

I do believe that is the largest mitre box Stanley ever produced. Nice!


----------



## ToddJB

I was surprised by it's size and weight.


----------



## CL810

Amazing find Todd! Both pieces have me drooling.


----------



## shampeon

That's a comically big square.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I know it's a mitre box thread, but jeez, I'm drooling over that ridonkulous square. Shear 90 degree awesomeness!

Oh, and the Box - like Eric said - it's epic in it's own rite. What a find! Whadya give for the square?


----------



## ToddJB

$10. I'll be seeking advice on it soon enough - she has a split.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, my!!! What a Find!


----------



## theoldfart

Mongo really like square


----------



## Tim457

Todd that is a sweetheart of a pickup there.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks gents. And Tim I forgot to answer you. I have a newer 246 with bearings and a little 150. The 246 will likely see the door when the 460 is up and running.


----------



## chrisstef

I thought dirty things about that saw just now. Thanks todd!


----------



## Airframer

Well, Todd won the prize for today but I did have these 2 guys land in my shop today.

On the left a 246 bought for the accessories and on the right a SW 242 with all the bits robbed from the 246.

No clue what the dip sh%t was thinking when he "Painted" the 242 but that will be dealt with in time.



















Annnd now I want a 460! Gonna need a bigger boat!


----------



## ToddJB

For those of you drooling over the square (L square, apparently) you can buy your here.

or here

or here


----------



## theoldfart

Hold on jus a second, almost 400 clams for the 36" and over 500 for the 60"? OUCH


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. yep. Check out the etsy ones.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I no longer want one.


----------



## CL810

I just want Todd's.

;-)


----------



## DanKrager

"...square." There, CL810, I finished it for you. 
DanK


----------



## CL810

Glad someone has my back!


----------



## Airframer

> Glad someone has my back!
> 
> - CL810


Well ya.. apparently Todd does..


----------



## racerglen

Promised Bandit pictures of my Craftsman mire box..



























No idea of the vintage, it's virtualy all aluminum, works great, but I think it's missing some parts,. no idea what the knurled thumbscrews at each end are for ? hold downs, guides, whatever ?

It came with a 28" German "made for Craftsman" saw.


----------



## Airframer

Cross post from the restoration thread..

My Stanley SW No 358 Mitre Box is finally finished. All it awaits is a sharpening and some fine tuning.

Before:









After:





































More info and pics in my blog


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Eric, that's beautiful work!


----------



## planepassion

Been working on a peg-panel for some neighbor kids to hang their costume dresses on.

MF #1124 came in handy for making repeatable peg cuts










And one peg in situ


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Smitty ;-)


----------



## ToddJB

When I grow up I want to be like one of AFs miter boxes.


----------



## Airframer

There was some discussion on my blog about what one of these Stanley boxes looked like fresh from the store and I think this is the finest example of just that kind of condition I have ever seen. According to the Stanley catalog the colors for these boxes are "Light Blue with Aluminum Fence and Bright Orange Cutting Board"

I might see if I can hunt down some blue for my next one… or not. Still on the fence there.

eBay listing http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-VINTAGE-STANLEY-MITRE-BOX-SWEETHEART-NO-240-W-ATKINS-SILVER-STEEL-SAW-/121403233552?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c44325510

More Pics










Just thought it was cool and wanted to share.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just the 240 was blue, or all? Starting when, you think?


----------



## Airframer

From what I can tell it was the whole line not just the 240. Time frame wise I am still unsure of. I know for a fact it was at least through the middle of the SW era but how far it extended in either direction I don't know yet. I'll keep digging.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've not seen a single vintage blue mitrebox in person. Maybe blue was to boxes of the SW era as orange was to frogs.


----------



## Airframer

May be but I do know my SW 358 was blue. I thought it was a user applied color but it turns out it must have been factory made.

You can just make out the blue in this pic. It all turned a bluish purple color after the evaporust bath.










Here is the Advert I found describing the colors.










A close up of the text..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Some search fu turned up the following. It talks about the 50/60 boxes, but the generalizations seem to apply to this conversation.

Walter W. Jacob, writing in The Chronicle of the EAIA:

"Around 1923, Stanley discontinued the no. 50 and no. 60 miter boxes, but the nos. 50½ and 60½, with Traut's improved saw guides, remained. By the mid-1930s, the miter boxes were being painted a light aluminum color on the frame and facing board, with blue feet and blue saw guides with an orange wooden bed board 11). The nos. 50½ and 60½ were discontinued around 1955."


----------



## racerglen

So, blue is the new green ? I'd have sworn to my naked eye my 358 frame 3 was green but the pics show blue ?/


















Posted it as a Friday rust hunt item on that thread, $40 and I think all I'm missing is the pair of what Stanley calls "Stock Guides" 








And the 28 by 5 saw, an E.C. Atkins, Hamilton, Ontario.










I think it needs more work than the mitre box ;-)


----------



## SamuelP

Here is a maitre box and saw my dad gave me recently. He said it is the same model and type my grandfather used. It is a Langdon/Miller Falls. Needs some lube and the saw tote is loose. That is all. Anyone have a good fix for loose saw totes?


----------



## theoldfart

Sam, not sure how to fix the loose tote. The Simonds is a fantastic saw, and dates to pre 1926. I have a couple of them and I think they are the best.

Looking at the front post, is that a screw at the bottom or a braze?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very sweet box, Sam!


----------



## DocBailey

Hey Sam
The fix described below addresses only one type of loose handle situation-that in which the handle has shrunk over time and, as a result, the fasteners cannot be tightened sufficiently since the male half of the fastener bottoms out before the wood can be compressed.
The cure, as you might guess, is to file/grind/ or otherwise slightly shorten the bolts.

Naturally, you would first try tightening them in place.


----------



## SamuelP

> Sam, not sure how to fix the loose tote. The Simonds is a fantastic saw, and dates to pre 1926. I have a couple of them and I think they are the best.
> 
> Looking at the front post, is that a screw at the bottom or a braze?
> 
> - theoldfart


Not sure which post you are refering, but the badge is held on with screws.

It is dated 1895. Probably not too far off.


----------



## SamuelP

Thank you Smitty.

Doc. I will try tightening later on. Thank you.


----------



## theoldfart

Sam, this is a close up of one of my Goodell Pratt All Steel mitre box. If you look at the horizontal bar that the vertical uprights are attached to you'll see a screw. That allows the front upright to be moved out to accommodate wider stock.









Check yours. it should be the same.


----------



## racerglen

So does anyone have the stock guides for the 358 Stanley box they could measure for me?
I'd apreciate some measurements to reproduce them , I think they're 9/16 flat stock, 1/8 thick and about 7 inches long, with 9/16th posts that are about 3 and a half to 4" tall ?
Or are my measurements off ? my wooden "deck" is 3/4 thick plywood .


----------



## Airframer

Let me go measure mine real quick and get back to you. I think you are close on some of the numbers.


----------



## racerglen

Ah, thanks Eric !


----------



## racerglen

My "secret' weapon for saw handles..and dumb screws.








It's a 4" mastercraft clamp.








Should have bought more at the time, don't know if they're still available.










Also bought a "Savona" bar clamp with the same three finger design.
Fingers either side of the slotted head, the one post on the blank screw head, works like a charm.


----------



## racerglen

@Eric, say smoke free we hope, were you able to check the measurements on the 358 stock guides, I've now got a shot at a 358-A I think it is, no saw but asking is $35..know I can get that down ;-)


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Hi, new to lumber jocks and wood working in general. I came to post this gem I picked up at an auction for only $6!










It's a Goodell-Pratt miter box No. 1285A with a Henry Disston & Sons 27" back saw. Everything on it moves pretty well considering how junked up it is. I'm thinking about trying electrolysis to de rust everything then maybe powder coat the pieces that need paint. Any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## racerglen

Think you missed on the pictures Shane ?


----------



## ShaneComeBack

> Think you missed on the pictures Shane ?
> 
> - racerglen


Sorry, I don't follow, what do you mean?


----------



## racerglen

Think I've had a good week..
Week ago Friday, $40 for the Sweet Hart #358 and Atkins saw.









Went back to see if they had the stock guides, no idea but check back Saturday when the guy is in, but a much newer 358A had arrived.
Saturday morning sold my Craftsman box with 28" German made saw for $50










Then back to the shop, couildn't move the deck, the uprights were loose, $20 for a parts piece ? "in your car ?" 









Oh yes, (no saw this time) lube the deck mounts,slight bit of rust removal from the under deck area, tighten and readjust the uprights 
and works just fine.








This dohickey is a length stop, from the looks of it only one came with although the left side is drilled and tapped for it there's no sign of any use here..
Missing one roller bearing in the front guide, one of the pointy bolts that come from the back to help keep stuff from sliding and one stock guide, but a solution is at hand for the guide
..









Will check with a buddy on doing a closer repo of the guide, it's 1/4 stock.
So for a total $10 dollar investment..2 mite boxes (I will continue on the Sweet hart and saw)


----------



## bandit571

Had some trim pieces to miter, so out came a cordless Mitresaw









Well, it did rattle a bit, but the setting was about dead on









A couple swipes with a low angle block plane, and away we go.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shane, congrats on the G-P, it's a very fine machine. Powder coat sounds awesome, too.

The saw handle looks like one that was stored outside for a few years, wow. But otherwise intact.

There are a couple accessories for your saw that are missing, one at each end. I'm missing the same parts, sadly, but neither are required to have a totally functional box.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Glen is now becoming a MB collector… Ah, the sickness spreads…


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks for the response Smitty. The saw is defiantly a little rough, but still pretty sharp, I tested it out on a piece of trim and it cut right through it. I did notice some pitting along the sides of the saw, is this cause for concern? Does it have any affect or is it something I can get away with having once I fix the saw up?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Pitting on a saw, unless severe, is no issue at all.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Awesome, I'll be sure to post pictures once I'm done fixing it up. And I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions, thanks for the help.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love pictures, yes we do.

Looks like your box does have the bearings present at the top of each post, under the slotted screw heads. That's a definite plus, also something my example doesn't have. Close-up pics of those would be great, especially if you end up removing them to clean / lube.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Yes, the bearings are there and surprisingly they look in really good condition and the saw slides pretty smooth. I'm starting to think the guy that owned this used it once then left it in a shed for 70 some years. I'm definitely going to take pictures as I disassemble so I know how to put it back together. I'll be sure to snap some close ups for you. I left it at the workshop at work and won't be back in until next week so I'll probably start breaking it down early next week and get those pictures for you.


----------



## planepassion

ShaneComeBack, does the saw still show signs of being sharp? That would lend weight to the "used it once" theory. I have an earlier model of the same miterbox and absolutely love it. I eventually found the accessories on Ebay. Can't wait to see you tackle the restoration. $6.00 is a phenomenal price. Congratulations.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Yes, the saw cut through a piece of 1 inch oak relatively well, but I'm sure it needs some sharpining. I've got a guy at work that might be able to machine the 2 missing holders for me too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, man. Get him to do two sets while you're at it, pls!


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Smitty, I'll see what I can do. If he can make the part easily enough I'm sure he wouldn't mind making 2 sets. From what I've seen, the parts don't look too complicated. I think it was in Brad's blog (which is what originally brought me to lumber jocks when I googled miter box restoration) he had gotten some dimensions and made his out of wood. So once I get back to work next week I'll run it by him, he's only been machining for a couple years, but he's good at what he does and loves a challenge.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, that would be awesome. And Brad did a great job with those measurements…


----------



## Wally331

I picked up this nice miter box this weekend in an antique shop. Casting says its a "new marsh improved","Rockford illinoise."

I believe Wayne C has an identical one. Came with a very nice disston saw. I know marsh was bought out by Stanley at some point in time. I haven't seen any Stanley marks yet though, may be a pre- buyout miterbox? Anyways for $25 I think it was a solid purchase. No brazing or cracks, and it looks to be complete. I'd say the saw alone is worth that…


----------



## Wally331

Ffs I managed to forget the picture…


----------



## theoldfart

That design looks a lot like the GP's !


----------



## planepassion

Well, if you're going to have your machinist make them, this is the best I could come up with in terms of dimensions for the Goodell Manufacturing, CO accessories dimensions.


----------



## theoldfart

I'll post some pics of the original parts this evening.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Awesome! Thanks Brad! He's real visual oriented, so these will help out a lot.


----------



## theoldfart

Shane, I have two boxes like yours. One with a Simonds mitre saw and one with a Diston, both badged for Goodell Pratt. The two attachments are a coping stop









and a repeatable cut length stop









The only difference between the two is the angle clamp


















Also. looks like your missing two sets of stops on the uprights


















The longer set are used to limit the depth of your cut for dados and the like, the shorter set on the other side keeps the saw from bottoming out on the steel groove at the end of the cut. Hope this helps.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks oldfart, it definatley does not have the long upright stops, but I'm pretty sure it has the shorter ones on the other side. I'll be sure to get some more detailed photos before I break it down for cleaning.


----------



## racerglen

So, where do I find the roller bearings for the 358A ?
There's not even a post to mount the missing one.


----------



## SamuelP

Kevin. 
You asked a while back about the adjustment screw on the front. Mine does not have a screw but the lever pictured below.


----------



## theoldfart

Sam, on yours the lever does the same thing, it's just under the bar instead of on top. I didn't see I at first till you posted the pics. Thanks

BTW, I like your set up better. No tools needed!


----------



## SamuelP

Yup. I like it too. Quick and easy.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Here are some more detailed photos of the Goodell-Pratt box.














































Also, my co-worker said he's gonna try to make the missing stops for me so hopefully all that works out well. The saw handle also has a bunch of cracks in it, nothing too big, but at what point would I not be able to restore the handle?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

When you try and fail, it's too far gone. That one isn't, I'd suggest. A light sanding and some oil would go a long way. Tung, Watco's, danish, etc. Even BLO if you have a mind to (careful with the rags, though). Give it a go!


----------



## ShaneComeBack

I tried hitting it with some 400 grit, but there was still a lot of black grime on it, so I hit it with some coarser grit then again with the 400 and it did a little bit better. It's definitely going to have a rugged look to it, but I think I'll like how it turns out. I had some BLO handy so I decided to use that and threw a coat on. I'll probably do a coat a day for a week and see how it turns out. No issues with the rags, I soaked them in water when I was done then laid them outside to dry.

I also put together a electrolysis set up that I am going to test tomorrow. I have a rusted up block plane I'm gonna test it on so if something messes up I don't ruin anything from the miter box.


----------



## bandit571

Was out looking at Yard Sales last week. Found a "bench" to park that Craftsman 22" Mitersaw on









$15, this cost three times what the mitersaw did. Even has some storage areas down below. Takes two people to move this thing around.

Maybe bolt the mitersaw down to the top? Drawers? or just a door or two on the front?


----------



## racerglen

Looks like a couple of drawers on the top, doors below to me /
What's the top, something other than painted wood, or ?
If it's dedicated to the mitre box, sure screw 'er down.
Nice find even if it was so expensive Bandit ;-)


----------



## bandit571

High pressure laminate for the top. Might have been a counter top of some sort. Has bolts through the legs to hold this thing together. Nice solid benchtop. Might even be able to drill for some bolts, and bolts the mitrebox down.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Ran my electrolysis set up today with good results. Didn't completely clean the piece, but did one heck of a job. Just used a bucket with 4 pieces of rebar hooked to the positive lead. Ran it with 12 volts and around 2.4 amps. Going to run it tomorrow to clean up the v-groove pieces and a package should be coming in with materials to fabricate the stops. Once I get the v-grooves all cleaned up my co-worker is gonna work on machining the stops for me. Hopefully it all goes well. Here are some pictures (bonus shot of my work's machine lathe and mill in the background!)


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Ran both v-grooves through the electrolysis bath and cleaned off the black crud then powder coated them. The powder coating was a huge pain, but think the results came out well considering how pitted the parts were. left the inner part of the groove bare metal so the stops can slide nice an smooth with some grease or some other lubricant. Here are some photos, sorry for the quality, I couldn't get a good lighting set up to really show the contrast well. Going to start the saw blade on Monday and hopefully get some of the stop pieces machined.

All cleaned up









Powder coating









After curing at ~200C for half an hour or so


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, great progress. Parts looking good!


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Ran half the saw through the bath today then put a ton of elbow grease in to it and got the following results.



















One side is a lot rougher than then other, the rough side has a lot of pitting going on where as the other side does not. I'm assuming this is from the way the saw was stored, but I'm not sure how it could end like that.

Going to run the other side tomorrow then hopefully finish up the handle this week as well. I've put a bunch of boiled linseed oil into it, so I might let it sit for a few days and see how it turns out and if I like it, I think I'm gonna throw some Spar Urethane on it. Can anyone tell me if there will be any issues with the urethane (assuming I've allowed enough time for the BLO to cure).


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Finished the saw up. Not 100% satisfied, but for my first restoration I can't complain with the results. Here are some before and afters.


----------



## theoldfart

Shane, look good to me, certainly nicer than mine!


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks! The rest of the box is in pieces, I hope it's easier to put back together than it was to take apart haha.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Getting close to finishing the box! It all went back together pretty smooth, prob can't tell but the paint job isn't all the great. I was going to originally powder coat everything, but it was too much of a hassle so I sprayed with Rustoleum primer and paint. The only problem is I need to be more patient when painting and not over coat as well as allow plenty of time to dry, but I just get so excited to finish something I can't help myself. Half of the base is soaking in the electrolysis bath today then I'll run the other half on Monday followed by priming and painting on Tuesday and Wed then hopefully have everything put back together by Thursday. Also hoping to get some of the stops machined next week now that the machine lathe is freed up.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Here are some shots of the finished miter box. The painting was the most annoying part and of course I scratched it up a little bit putting it back together. Overall I guess I'm happy with it, but when I look at it I can't help but notice all the imperfections haha.

Before









After


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## planepassion

Shane it is a pain painting it, especially the red banding beneath the bed. But it looks like you overcame that challenge to add a very nice and serviceable miterbox to your tool kit.

Remind me. What were the specs you sharpened the mitersaw to? Rake, fleam, slope…And of course, how does it cut for you?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shane, it looks great to me! Like Brad says, how does it cut? Action pics when you get the chance, we want sawdust!


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks! I didn't sharpen the saw, I'm not quite sure how to go about that or what rake/fleam/slope mean haha, but when I first got it I tried it out and it cut pretty well. I'll test it out and try to get some action pictures for you guys.


----------



## theoldfart

Shane, looks quite good to me. Still jealous of the post bearings!


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks! The bearings are in great shape too, I took out the side bearings in each post to grease them up and they looked new. I couldn't get the top ones out though, the bolt didn't want to come out and nothing I tired worked, but I was able to grease them on the saw side so it all worked out.

Here are some action shots as requested. I cut two 45's out of some scrap oak. I thought it cut pretty well, but my co-worker said he thought it needed to be sharpened. The pieces fit together pretty well and were pretty much dead on square.

Tomorrow we are gonna start on machining the stops, I'll be sure to get some pictures of that as well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ah, nice!!!


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## planepassion

That is nice. May you have a lifetime of enjoyment from it.

Shane, can't wait to see the finished, machined accessories. Please let me know if there are any hiccups with the measurements.


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## ShaneComeBack

Finally got around to making one of the v-groove stops today. Pretty straight forward except for the threaded hole. It's suppose to be 3/8" deep, but our 1/4-20 tap is tapered so we had to drill the whole way through to the other side so we could achieve the full 3/8" of thread length at the required 1/4-20. We also attempted to make the 3/8" x 3-1/2" vertical stop, but we accidentally machined it too thin when making the 1/4-20 thread…good thing I ordered extra length!

Here are some action shots and the final piece.


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## theoldfart

Looks just like mine only shiny. Nice work


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, yeah!!!


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## planepassion

That, Shane, is a thing of machine beauty! Can't wait to hear how it works in your miterbox.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Quick question for you guys with the Goodell Pratt miter boxes. My v-groove stop holders are both different lengths, the one holding the upright stop is about 4.25" in length and the other one is about 3.75" in length. Brad gave the measurements on his v-groove pieces at 4" in length. Is it normal for the two holders to be different lengths? I was planning on machining the v-groove pieces to match the length of the holders. Is it ok to make them to match their respective holder lengths, or should I make them the 4" that Brad measured his stock pieces at.

Thanks!


----------



## planepassion

Shane, that's weird. My Goodell Pratt miterbox v-groove stop holders both measure 4" in length. Moreover, the pieces that move to and fro in the v-groove stops are also 4" in length- for both the vertical post sliding stop and the length stop.


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## theoldfart

^ Same here


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Me too drooling over the square. None of mine are in that condition. Nor do they have a name stamp.

On the Mitre box side of things, I picked up an Ulmia 348 this weekend, which is of a size substantially less useful than the stanley 15o, although it MIGHT be able to cut 356 base (2 1/8")Alas, without saw.

Just for fun, I tossed in my lesser quality unamed square in the background.


__
https://flic.kr/p/15323565069


__
https://flic.kr/p/15323946537

Now all I gotta do is find the saw…..

Looks like a real cheap saw…..sorry aI cannot past the image it seems….scope out google images for Ulmia 348. its toppish on the list.

Eric


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## bandit571

On that Craftsman 22" Mitresaw, those white plastic guides needed a few rubber O-rings.

Fellow over at SMC bought a bag of them for his version of the saw…..bag had 100 O-rings. He kept half, and sent me the other half. Saw NOW has all the rings installed. Lot less sloppiness when the saw is used.

Note: although there are six places for the rings, two are NOT used. Four rings per guide. There is a space between the top pair of rings, and the bottom pair. Rings will not fit into this space. DAMHIKT









Both the 22" saw and the 18" saw work a lot better now…


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Picked up a little Ulmia 348 without saw on the weekend. Now all I gotta do is find or cobble up a backsaw to fit it!

Anyone got one of those ugly backsaws that you see in google images for the 348

Eric


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## chrisstef

Is it the hacksaw lookin version or would a regular backsaw fit it Eric? I just took in a couple of miter saws (16", 28") that ill be looking to sell.


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## planepassion

Shane, how did the final machining of the Goodell miterbox accessories work out for you?


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## ShaneComeBack

Brad, unfortunately, since I am using my work's machining equipment and machinist, my parts are at the bottom of the priority list, but planning on getting a couple more parts made tomorrow. I'll be sure to post some pictures of the process.


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## planepassion

Looking forward to it Shane. I'm not familiar with machinist methodologies so your pictures are fascinating.


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## ShaneComeBack

I'll be sure to make a more in-depth post than my last one. I'll include some pictures of the stock pieces and try my best to describe what we did to each one and why we did it.


----------



## DanielS

Chrisstef, can you pm me a pic of the 16" backsaw you're wanting to sell. I've got a little miter box in need of a saw.


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## chrisstef

PM sent Dan.


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## pastahill

In my inactive time here at lumberjocks i bought 2 nice mitre boxes from Ulmia.
The first is a small 348 with an unusuall backsaw in it. Unusual because Ulmia normaly had frame saws in there mitre boxes like my second acquire. The small 348 is just 10 inches long. Very cute.
The second is a Ulmia 352 with the normal frame saw in it. It is 18 inches long and it is not the biggest from Ulmia which is the 354 with over 24 inches. I dont know how old they are exactly, but i think maybe from the 1920 -30
because Ulmia did not make iron handles for the last decades.

Ulmia 348


































Ulmia 352


































Now i have something to restore ;-)


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## CL810

Worthy projects they are Pasta. Great finds!


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## realcowtown_eric

Mine is the backsaw version, but the backsaw pictured above ???does it have any ulmia markings, as it doesn't look like the images I've seen in searches.

Mine wouldn't take the frame saw.

Eric


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That 10" model is da bomb, I love it!


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## pastahill

I have not found any Ulmia markings, but the size of the back and the blade fits perfect in the guide and there is a hole in the front of the back for a stop. I also found only one newer with a cast aluminiun handle and plastic sides. The saw has also just two screws in the back for the attachment of the handle like the new one, and the shape and the angle is similar like the newer one. Also is the casting from the table different from new ones. The rest of the paint with is still on the handle matches also perfect with the colour of the box. Also compare the shape of the handle from the small one with the big one, i think they are about the same age.

Here is a picture from the newer on


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## DocBailey

One more bit of evidence …

http://pedder-altedamenauskiel.blogspot.com/2013/06/ulmia-348-d-gehrungssage-mitre-saw.html


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## pastahill

I know Pedders saw, and it is newer than mine, just look at the casting of the legs. The problem is you dont find at the internet a timeline for Ulmia saws or mitre boxes.The first patent from 1888 shows a mitre box with a wooden table and a cast steel back with a wooden frame saw but what changes are made with the time is not exactly documented. Maybe at Ulmia, but they have no website for there antike tools.


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## realcowtown_eric

peddler's backsaw was the one I was thinking of. Ain't it ugly!

I'll look at the body casting for the feet!

Who would have thought that there would ever be a forum for aficionados of mitre boxes….

I've never counted mine, cause they are never lined up in a row. Doing so can get you into trubble with SWMBO!

Right now all I'll admit to is that I have a few.

Eric


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## pastahill

Yes the new 348d are ugly, i dont think that Ulmia still made Mitre boxes for backsaws. The old cast steel handle is looking better, but i dont like the cold feeling of it. When i restor it, i will made a walnut handle for it.


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## ShaneComeBack

Finally got some work done today on the Goodell Pratt parts.

So far have the two stops and one v-groove piece finished.

Before and after pictures of the v-groove and upright stop










All the finished parts together










I'm thinking about making a blog post about the process of making these parts if anyone thinks they'd be interested. I think that would be better than dumping a ton of photo's and text on the thread.


----------



## theoldfart

Shane, they look great. Any thoughts about selling some?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful. And, what Kevin said.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Kevin, that is definitely a possibility. I'll have to discuss it with the machinist and figure out how much it would cost. I think he would be interested in doing so.


----------



## theoldfart

There are a number of us with GP's so there is a market.


----------



## theoldfart

OK folks now here is an AWSOME DEAL of a lifetime. How could anyone turn it down? It's mostly complete  What's a few missing parts? No problem, improvise.


----------



## CL810

If I didn't already have my 246, why I'd, uh, probably keep lookin.


----------



## Mosquito

I've wanted to make my own miter box, but lack the skills and equipment to do it lol


----------



## dbray45

That miter box is missing a few key things, like the saw guides.


----------



## theoldfart

But David, it's such a bargain (NOT)!


----------



## dbray45

I posted the question of the missing parts on the auction. Might change things


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## dbray45

Funny that - I posted the question about the missing parts and it doesn't show in the auction.


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## Mosquito

They have to check the option to show the question/answer in the auction when they answer your question (if they respond)


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## theoldfart

I think there is a deceptive mentality and a lack of integrity when it comes to "pictures are a part of the description". Buyers who are knowledgable are obviously able to reduce their risk, newbies are another matter. I prefer to work with specialized woodworking on line sellers who post the apologies with the item. just my two cents worth.


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## realcowtown_eric

Can any of you other mitrebox afficianados recall ever even seeing in the wild any attachmenbts for the Dorn mitrebox…...I have original adverts and they say the puppy is capable of compound mitres, and refer to pamphlets. No luck on those either?

Anybody got any info

Cowtown Eric
Calgary


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, never heard of it until you posted reference. It's a beautiful tool.


----------



## theoldfart

That looks interesting


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Don't it look like one of them really old IBM cheese cuttesr. That image above has two sculpted saw sides, mine is obviously a slightly cheaper mode I think, only one sculpted side on mine.

Regardless it's totallu funky!

The holes in the side plates are to hold the appurtenances for the compound mitre features, yet to be found, even in igoogle searches (by me anyway). The pamplet metioned in the adverts for this is allso on my quest list.

My apologies for possibly pushing some other mitre box aficionados down another slippery slope!


----------



## theoldfart

Must find one of those, need to find one of those, will have one of those, resistance is futile …...


----------



## DanKrager

Aw, Kevin…you've got it worse than DonW or Smitty. Bless your heart!
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I got it had and that ain't good!


----------



## realcowtown_eric

We got gun laws in Canada, so make sure to tell your wife….I don't want to regret bringing the Dorn mitre box to your attention!

Maybe just wait til the tool god shines on you!

reminds me of a song I saw on the oldtools listserver way back when…

>>An old man lived with his hound-dog, Mace, in a run-down shack on the
>>outskirts of town. He had no family and only a few meager possessions: a
>>table and chair, a bed, a bag of hand tools, and his dog. He used the tools
>>to do odd jobs in town, for which he usually would be paid enough to get
>>food for the next day. Mace and his master lived from one day to the next
>>on what little these jobs would bring in.
>>
>>The dog was just a normal hound, with one exception: while most dogs like
>>to chew on grass occasionally, Mace loved it. When the old man was in town,
>>Mace would spend the day in the yard in front of the house, chewing away on
>>the lawn.
>>
>>One bright, sunny day the old man said goodbye to his dog and headed in to
>>town to work. He had a plumbing repair job in one of the homes there that
>>would take him most of the day and would probably pay enough for food for
>>the remainder of the week, if he managed the money carefully. He headed for
>>town with a spring in his step and a whistle on his lips.
>>
>>Inside the house and ready to start, the old man reached in the bag for his
>>wrench. To his surprise he didn't feel it. He dug around again, but there
>>didn't seem to be any wrench. He looked in the bag, then dumped its
>>contents on the floor, but still no wrench. Reality set in: without a
>>wrench he couldn't finish the job, and without the pay he couldn't even buy
>>food for supper, let alone tomorrow.
>>
>>When he finally came to grips with reality, he told the lady who hired him
>>what the situation was. While she sympathized with his situation, the job
>>needed to be done. If the old man couldn't do it, she would have to hire
>>someone else.
>>
>>The old man packed up his tools and headed home, head bowed and shoulders
>>stooped. The whistle was gone and no longer was there a spring in his step.
>>A walk that normally took 15 minutes seemed to last forever. But finally
>>the old shack came into view, and there was Mace in the distance, munching
>>away as usual on the lawn.
>>
>>When the dog saw his master, he came running, tail wagging, telling the old
>>man how glad he was to see him. Kneeling beside the hound, the man began to
>>pet him, and through tear-filled eyes told the dog that there would be no
>>supper tonight and no food for tomorrow. What's more, without money to buy
>>a new wrench, he had no idea what the future held. It was the loneliest,
>>most helpless feeling he had ever had!
>>
>>Then he caught a glimpse of something shining in the grass. As the old man
>>went to see what this piece of shining material was, his despair turned in
>>an instant to joy! It was the wrench! The old man had dropped it on his way
>>out that morning, and it would have been lost forever had Mace not been
>>eating farther away from the house than he usually did!
>>
>>The old man grabbed the dog, gave him a hug that almost suffocated him, and
>>ran into the house. Reaching for a stub of pencil and the only piece of
>>paper he had, he wrote a moving tribute to his canine companion.
>>
>>Few people have ever heard these words … until now, that is. One man who
>>did happen to read them changed them a bit and has his name recorded in
>>music history. The old man never did get the credit he deserved. But now
>>you are privileged to read the beginning line of his original poem, which
>>went: "A grazing Mace, how sweet the hound that saved a wrench for me." 
>>

Jim Bramel - University of Kentucky - [email protected]

Eric


----------



## racerglen

Oh Eric.. lol..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A grazing Maze… Ah… Lawl


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Don't have any new updates on the miter box parts. It seems the economy is turning around because we are normally dead slow in December and this year we are swamped. So the machinist pretty much has no spare time right now to work on the parts for me 

However, I did put my miter box to work to make some frames for some prints I bought for my wife.










Borrowed some corner clamps from a co-worker and glued it all up










Then spray painted black and dry brushed gold to give it a nice antiquey look.










Being my first frame, it was a pain in the but trying to figure out the best way to put the poly sheet and print in. I ended up using some foam board backing and cut out the dimensions of the poly sheet and print then set them in and put the cut out part back on top then pinned the foam board back to itself. (I'm sure I didn't explain that well and it makes no sense haha) Next time around I think I will borrow a router and notch out a section to put the poly sheet and print in then just lay a backing on top of it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Seeing that box in use it a beautiful thing, Shane! Nice pics, nice frame. And I sympathize with the learning curve re: backing and glass and prints when it comes to new framing material. It takes a few times to get the hang of it, I think. Good work, and because it's for the Mrs, it helps with the 'why I need new / more / different tools' storyline, right?


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks! Yes it does help with the why I need new tools. She told me I can buy all the old tools I want as long as I don't break the bank and keep them all in the garage haha.


----------



## CL810

Shane the frames look really nice. How did you like the corner clamps?

And it looks like it's time for a 45!



> She told me I can buy all the old tools I want…..
> 
> - ShaneComeBack


----------



## ShaneComeBack

The corner clamps were a pain to get the 45s lined up, but once I fiddled with each corner for a while I got them to the best I could. I think in the future I would rather use those framing clamps which has the corner pieces and you thread a strap all the way around the frame. That is an awesome quote and I bet one day she will regret she ever told me that haha.


----------



## CL810

A nice 358A on ebay with no bids. Will expire at 6:30 ET


----------



## yank

> An awesome restore, Don. Anyone using one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder if the blade stays true or wants to skew of line in thicker stuff?
> 
> For storage, is open shelves the way? Draws? Or ? Don, where s yours live between uses?
> 
> I have one of the same. Love it, 'miters are totally spot on, very dependable and it stays on one corner of my work bench. I have a 10" CMS and for intricate miters I turn to the hand mode. I have not seen any deflection in the blade on thick stock. I rely on this saw a lot.
> 
> DocBailey, I have my fathers miter box saw hanging on my shop wall. Not sure of the brand at this time, I will check it ASAP. I was told by the man that sharpened my saws a few years ago that the blade has become to brittle to sharpen. I also found that the saw was not doing the precision work I needed. I have no idea the age of it, but I know and can remember my father using it for many many years in his work as a master carpenter.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A flea market find this morning:










Very stoked, been looking for a #150 for awhile!


----------



## Tim457

Very cool, Smitty. I'm not familiar with that one, but apparently Mark Harrell at Bad Axe Saws likes it enough he designed a saw specifically to work with it.


----------



## Dave10

I just brought home this Millers Falls Langdon #1124 yesterday. Rather than repeat myself, the story is *here * on my blog.


----------



## CL810

Smitty that looks like it is in very good shape. The blade guides look better than most I see. How complete?

I have one of these but I never use it because I really like my 246. Keep thinking about putting it on ebay but everytime I get it out to take pics I think, nah, no way I'm selling this. LOL! We're all sorrier than the next aren't we? (Is that what Brit's wife said?)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It appears to be all here. One stop, a place for a dupe on the other end.










Needs a new deck. Found a saw to use, mounted the frame to a board, made sawdust.










I like.


----------



## ToddJB

Nice Smitty, I didn't know they had stops. I'll have to look to see if mine has that screw hole on the back.


----------



## bandit571

A little GEM for Smitty…









Something for people on the go, I guess?


----------



## bandit571

Currently replacing the fold-down slats, before they fall apart.

Might have to find a way to copy the GEM and the ruler on the one edge.

Might get a bit more done…after Tea Time, of course…


----------



## bandit571

After a bit of time in the shop, and Tea Time to boot, replacement slats are done









Old ones were getting a might worn through. Found some decent Pine of the right size









Matched pair. Drilled the holes for screws to act as hold downs, drilled for the brass anti-fold-up rod, rounded over one corner to match existing. Needed to drill some pilot holes for the mounting/pivot screws









Nice little stanley eggbeater. Then a test fit









One side was about spot on, the other was a wee bit tight. Block plane to adjust. About ready to go









Folded up. Added a coat of BLO to the new wood, and a light one to the old stuff









Add a backsaw









And it is ready to go to work. Will save the old parts, as I think I won't be able to copy the art work









Not too bad of a project..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice work. Mine is lacking the rod, but I have a heavy-gauge strip of copper in place. That box is in the toolchest. Mine's also sans-artwork. :-(


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

New deck, dialed in, not a bad box.


----------



## DocBailey

*Smitty*

more miter box trivia for you (and other Stanley 150 owners)

That box (along with the 115, 116 and probably others) is designed to allow the use of both backsaws and panel saws.

Here's a page from a 1958 Stanley catalog with the pertinent bits highlighted:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very good primary sources, Doc. Thanks!


----------



## DLK

*Summerfi *strongly suggested I ask my questions here.


I have an orphaned Diston miter box saw and I am inquiring what miter box should I look for to go with it? The blade measures 22 inches long, but is only 3.825 inches tall under the spline. Is there a box that will work with it? If so what box should I get? 
My second question is more philosophical. What happens to miter box saws that have become to short for their companion miter boxes due to frequent sharpenings? Are they then used for something else?


----------



## Waterlog

Can anyone tell me from looking at these pictures what model this miter saw is, if it is a good model to acquire, and what it's value could be assuming it is in good condition with all it's parts. I have not seen it in person yet. It has patent dates on it 10/5/09 and 1/2/12. Thank you. Lester


----------



## Tim457

Old Stanleys like that are pretty good models and that one appears to have all the commonly missing pieces that I can see. I don't know as much about the Stanleys as I don't have one, but someone posted a bit earlier in this or the saw thread about how to tell the models apart, at least by the saw size I think. I also don't know much about the value, but I'd make an appointment to go see it for sure. $50-60 would be a steal, but a good way to find out the high end would be to look at the average of closing prices for similar tools on ebay.

Here's a 1926 instruction manual that covers the Stanley mitre boxes. Should give you some info to go on:
http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/stan-mbox/mboxman.pdf

Don, I forgot to look at my Millers Falls mitre box to see how much the saw could be filed down and still function, but I'd bet your 3-7/8 saw would work fine for a while in most any box made for a saw with 4" under the spine. More likely though if you keep looking you'll just find a mitre box with a saw. Do you see anything in the etch that identifies whether it went with a MF or Stanley mitre box?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For the three digit stanley model numbers, the first number is the frame number, the second digit is the depth of the backsaw, and the last digit is the last number in the length of the saw. With that information, Don K might find a stanley box matched to the sharpened saw.

For LWB, it looks like a fine example. Saw is stopped short of the bed, that's good. Should be springs on the rods, and bushings of sorts to hold those in place. Look for all the parts, and I see the rods and tree; those are desireable as well. There are manuals for Stanley in this thread; my suggestion is to find one of those links and review it before going to see your saw. Rough, rough guess for a complete box with saw (having good handle) would be in the $50-$85 range, honestly. Depends if you need it / like it, really.

Good luck.


----------



## AESamuel

I got one of these Jorgensen Mitre guides for £7, there is a minute bit of play in terms of the angle BUT when I checked the 90 and 45 degree cuts with my combination square they were absolutely spot on. I used both a £2 hardpoint saw and a £17 Japanese pull saw and they both worked very well with this little jig. I've paid more for wooden mitre boxes that didn't work anywhere near as well.


----------



## CL810

Waterlog, it looks very much like my Stanley 246. It's a great box. Hope you snagg it.


----------



## Waterlog

Thank you all for replying with lots of great information. The information, research, and the knowledge I have gained from the members of Lumber Jocks on this thread is an example of generousity and is the kind of enjoyment that restores my faith in people. Having said that, after corresponding with the seller of the miter box/saw, I guess I was too enthusiastic about my interest in his saw. He raised the price by $30 on Craig's List and updated the listing with information gained from my questions. Oh well.


----------



## Tim457

That's pretty sleazy on that sellers part though some would just say good business I guess. I does definitely help to act like you're doing them a favor to take it off their hands and play down the enthusiasm as much as possible while still getting to see it right away. How much are they asking now?


----------



## Waterlog

Well I just got off the phone with the gentleman and he is going to sell me the saw for the original price. As soon as the storm breaks, I am on my way to pick it up. Yeeha!!


----------



## CL810

Yeeha is right. That lister just saved himself from a truckload of bad karma headed his way.


----------



## ToddJB

Glad to hear that worked out, Waterlog. I've had a lot of stupid dealings with folks on CL. Now I go in as informed as possible, share no information with them, have minimal chit cat, buy and leave. I've been bit by asking probing questions, or by giving them info that they didn't know, or even by just talking with them too long.


----------



## oltexasboy1

I have one pretty much like the one in the pic. Mine is mostly metal and has a 24 inch blade. It was made by Jorgenson for Sears about 30 years ago. It works pretty well, but it is a booger getting blades for it. The only blades I have found are 24 tpi blades and they cut well but are real slow. The blade stays true while cutting and it lives where ever I can find to set it when I'm done. Usually on top of something else I'm not using.


> An awesome restore, Don. Anyone using one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder if the blade stays true or wants to skew of line in thicker stuff?
> 
> For storage, is open shelves the way? Draws? Or ? Don, where s yours live between uses?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


----------



## Buckethead

Todd… That is excellent CL advice. We do countless hours of stalking the web Errrr legwork and research to learn what (in my case) little we know. Some schlepp who has a #5 finds out his $5 plane is actually worth $15 - $20 as is then suddenly thinks its worth a hundo.

There is a unisaw for sale within two hours of me for a buck fiddy. I asked too many questions and dood stopped responding. Coulda been a scammer, but I did say a unisaw for a buck fiddy.


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. Bucket the first (of many) Unisaw I lost out on was advertised as a 10" Delta Table Saw for $100. The older ones didn't have big tags that said UNISAW on them. So I replied saying "I've been looking for a Unisaw, I take it!". To which he replied, "I don't believe this is a Unisaw". To which I stupidly replied, "Oh, it is indeed a Unisaw. When are you available for me to stop by?". To which he did not reply and sextupled the price.


----------



## Airframer

> Waterlog, it looks very much like my Stanley 246. It s a great box. Hope you snagg it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


That is a nice looking box you got there Clayton! I must have missed the restore on that one. It looks GREAT!


----------



## Waterlog

I got the new old 246 treasure home and it is a beauty. Only missing a spring and a couple minor screws. Appears to be well used but well taken care of. I am guessing it is from the 'teens.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Beautiful!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And it just. Doesn't. Stop.

New-ish box followed me home from a flea markets jaunt this afternoon:










An EC Stearns &Co. that is complete and hardly used. Even instructions on the back:










More pics to come.


----------



## Buckethead

I picked up a (236?) several months ago and still haven't touched it. The saw is pitted, and super dull. The box is is great shape tho. You guys have me feeling ashamed. I did try to use it rather than dragging out my chop saw this one time… I ended up dragging out the chop saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Uh, a mitrebox with dull saw is, well, uhm… best kept on the shelf. You're familiar with the term "static display?"

Someday you'll get to it. The thing to remember about tools like your #236 is it's waited for decades to find a niche, but has a good home now.


----------



## Buckethead

The guy had a ton of saws, including a nearly unused (and unsexy) craftsman back saw that fit my box perfectly. I should have grabbed it, just to have a user.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a couple of those unsexy Craftsman backsaws, and know why you passed. Even if they were sharp.


----------



## theoldfart

According to an Ebay seller, this is wall art


----------



## summerfi

Not a bad price for classic art. The seller seems to think the board mounts to the wall like a plaque.


----------



## racerglen

A "Perfection" mitre box, mfg Torringtom Conn. U.S.A. One patent on the paper instruction label is Jan 8 1901



























On the upright a large "U" and made in USA.








In progress of cleanup, everything works, the small wooden back part has been glued with something nasty, the larger part where the upright mounts is quite loose and I see the instructions say it can be made to lay flat in a minute ? Hmmm mine for 25, been looking at it for 35 for over a year..


----------



## planepassion

I picked up some miscellaneous parts. I'm fairly sure that the first one is an accessory to a miterbox. But can any of you identify what it goes to?



















And what does this part go to?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I agree about the first part, and also don't know. Looks very similar to the G-P parts that I see. The knurled ends are very high-end, gotta be prior to 1900?

The second one sure looks like some kind of clutch lever. What specifically, also don't know. Maybe someone else can help out.


----------



## Tim457

Top one looks like a length gauge. I agree either for a GP or maybe MF. I'm actually missing the length gauge for my Langdon Acme MB, but I haven't looked into exactly what it should look like. The second one could be lots of things.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

So this just showed up today:



















Can someone refresh my memory - was the sweetheart line from around the 20's-30's?


----------



## Buckethead

I put mine on ebay, (358) cuz it's been sitting a year. Saw is dull. I still haven't cleaned it. I put shipping at $40, and I think it's scaring off potential bidders. I'm not sure if I did that because I genuinely thought it would cost that much, or if I don't really want it to sell.

Paging Dr Freud…


----------



## CL810

The SW started in 1920 on planes but I'm not sure when it stopped. I think it was different years for different tools.


----------



## upchuck

All-
I need to send a Millers Falls Langdon Acme No. 74C Miter Box (w/o saw) from Arizona to Michigan. Safely is the chief priority. Cheaply would be the second most important. Speed of delivery is of no consequences ("...slow boat to China…") if it conflicts with the other two requirements. Please, oh please, oh please pass on any experiences or advise you have learned.
Specifically:
1) Who did/would you use to ship this item?
2) How far did/would you go with disassembly? 
3) Should I bolt the Box to a piece of wood?
4) Any advise on packing/padding materials?
5) All advise will be gratefully accepted.
Thanks in advance.
chuck


----------



## DLK

*upchuck* If it were me I might take it to the UPS store (or shipping store) fully assembled, have them package and ship it. Then charge the recipient the excess shipping fees. They should know how to package it safely. I am sure the recipient will be fine with that. At the very least, they might have some good suggestions.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I shipped an All Steel by boltinng it to 3/8"ply, inside a box that fit the base 'just so'. Lots of padding, and solid foam to keep the arms stable in case it took jolts. I may have cut holes in a second ply piece that slipped over the arms, but it's been a while.


----------



## LucasWoods

I am looking to obtain a solid miter box / backsaw for a decent price. Does anyone on here have one for sale or know how I can tell if the back saw is the original one with the miter box?


----------



## wcunning

I bought a couple of mitre boxes in the recent past, and I'm trying to identify them and possibly determine value. Any help anyone can provide would be much appreciated. I made a separate forum thread, but it was suggested that I post this all here, so I am.

The first box is made by Arrowheart Industries of Detroit, MI. It's a compound mitre box, which is a difficult thing to google about, since you only end up with the modern power tools. I'm wondering what, if anything anyone knows about compound mitre boxes and how valuable or not valuable they might be?

My thoughts: This looks very similar to many of the Stanley Sweetheart mitre boxes I've seen in this thread. The bottom and back castings are similar, the degree wheel is similar and the foot casting is similar. It's basically that box with the back cut to 45 degrees to support compound cuts, along with the adjustable and lockable angles for the guide rods. I might make a connecting bracket to go between the front and back guides, so that I don't mess up the compound angle.























































The second box is, as far as I can tell, a Langdon Acme. On the one hand, it's got the same castings and the same guide posts and the same depth stops. On the other hand, its angle release lever is completely different and there's no drilled and tapped hole for the length stop mount, which might just make it an old box, but I'm not 100% sure. Also, it doesn't have the bearings added in the 30's or 40's. Does anyone have any knowledge that might help me identify this one? On a sidenote, I'm not sure if the front and back guides should be different. The front one has a brass or bronze wrapper, but the back doesn't. Thoughts?


----------



## theoldfart

Some spiffy stuff came in the mail today









All the bearings are there!









This one's for Smitty


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, my…. Such goodies! Bearings alone = HUGE SCORE!

I'm speechless from this point, what a find…


----------



## wcunning

What's the thing in the third picture?


----------



## theoldfart

It holds a bar used to make repeatable cuts on a mitre box


----------



## wcunning

Ah… My i-think-it's-a-Langdon doesn't have the tapped holes to which that piece would mount. I guess I'll add that to my list of parts to mill when I'm in a metal shop again. Thanks!


----------



## planepassion

TOF, looks like a Goodel Manufacturing Co miterbox and accessories. When you say spiffy things arrived, was it the whole box or did you track down parts? Either way, Smitty is right. That is one huge score.


----------



## theoldfart

Brad, just got the parts.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Now this is the way to package something for shipment to a fellow LJ:










And what is it, they asked?










A hugely illusive compent to my Goodell-Pratt mitrebox! AWESOME, thanks Aged Flatus!

(Pics of it in place, coming soon!)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Another step closer to completion for this mitrebox!


----------



## theoldfart

It fits, awesome

Gotta do something with them shavings, can't bring myself to just throw them out.


----------



## planepassion

Wait a minute Smitty. Are you in need of another side slot piece? Like this?





































If so, PM me your address. I'll even throw in the wood slide I made  I was under the impression that you only needed the two slides-the length gauge and the other slide.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brad, thanks for the wonderful offer. I do have both slots now, it's the metal version of the wood slide that I'm looking for. And the square rod, of course. In the meantime, now that I have a pattern, I'll have to make me one of those slides w/ dowel like yours.


----------



## CL810

Found this today. Funny since Smitty and Glen just posted these. This one is a Montgomery Wards.

Sacrificial board saved the base. In need of a good bath. Anxious to see how accurate the presets are.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks nice, Andy! Yes, share your thoughts. I'm half of the mind it's a better design (re: consistently accurate) than the Stanley 150…


----------



## CL810

I cleaned up my Sterns/Perfection/Wards mitre box and play has commenced.

The first order of business was adjusting the guide for the blade thickness. To illustrate how this is done I rested a ruler on the pivot point of the blade guide. This is the only point of contact between the two halves. Adjust the three screws, one above and two below the pivot point, and get a perfect fit - zero play and the blade moves freely.










Next is adjusting the blade guide so it is square to the fence. I did this by cutting a "slot" is a piece of scrap that was 90 degrees using my 346 box. I then loosened the two screws that hold the guide to the index plate. Setting the blade down in the kerf to lock the guide at 90 degrees.










I made a 90 degree cut and it was spot on. So now for a tougher test. Made two cuts at 45 degrees.










And tape 'em up…










You see a very slight gap at the end. Better results than my 346. (Hmmmmm, gonna work on my 346 some more. Can't have this little thing outperforming it.)

Conclusions. Outstanding performer. I am sold on the blade guide design. Getting that fit perfect really makes a difference in the cut quality and accuracy. The base is slightly crowned which also causes the fence to be out of square. I'm not going to work on this until I determine how much of an issue it is. Also I need to get my 150 in working order to compare the two.

Question: what are the two metal plates on the front of the base for? They were not on Glen's and couldn't tell if they were on Smitty's. Some kind of hold down? Unique to the Montgomery Wards model or fashioned by an owner?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, metal plates? Pics? I am not seeing them(senior vision issues probably)


----------



## racerglen

I'm with you O.F. no metal plates at the front in my vision either..and Andy's right, none on mine, just the two main metal parts that go on the back uprights..no screw holes either ?/ Hmmm.


----------



## CL810

They are easier to see in the pics in my first post (Friday) about this box.


----------



## DocBailey

Here ya go-these light, lower-end boxes move around a lot more than their high-end counterparts and lack cast or stamped steel feet through which to bolt them down


----------



## CL810

Thanks Doc!


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, i get it. bangs head, slinks out of room…..


----------



## racerglen

Right behind you Kevin…


----------



## WayneC

I saw one those little boxes like the one doc posted above today with a late Diston saw in it today at a yard sale. Did not even bother to ask the price.


----------



## DocBailey

I hoard so many tools, that I forgot until reminded by this post, that I picked up a little Stanley 116 last summer for $1.00. As I've mentioned before, one cool thing about a lot of these lower end boxes is that they allow for the use of a plain old panel saw.


----------



## johnstoneb

CL810

Your stanley 346 should have those two set screws and they will adjust your box until it is right on. That off my 2246.


----------



## CL810

Thx!


----------



## CL810

Johnstoneb, I found the set screws and one of them had half of the head stripped off. Maybe the previous owner stopped dialing it in when that happened. Anyway, I was able to get enough turn out of it to finish the job and it's looking pretty good. Now I need to find a replacement screw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Everyone showing boxes for the #45s. So this iswhere mine lives.










My combo is a mutt. Had to find depth stops, middle skate, correct bolts and long arms over the years. But the basic cutters were all there. It's a lot of fun to use.


----------



## theoldfart

^ looks kinda lonely down in there. Needs a 55 for company.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Unstick


----------



## theoldfart

Reglue to HPOYD?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The chisel roll sits there too, taking up a lot of space. Not feeling #55 love, rather go the H&R route for mouldings. But if a good deal came along…


----------



## theoldfart

Finally got one









Now in its new home


----------



## bandit571

Had to refurb my GEM awhile back, was getting a bit cut up









Had some clear pine on hand, so









And added a backsaw..









Might work for awhile?


----------



## theoldfart

Good job Bandit. I need to make a pin for mine, but it came pretty pristine otherwise. Oh and $4 plus shipping.


----------



## bandit571

Garage sale find, $10 including a saw…

Need to turn the art work part ( ruler) into a thin veneer strip, and glue it onto the side.

About any brass rod will do, as long as it fits the holes, and is close to the right length. Since I work at an Imjection Molding factory, I can get a few "used" brass rodded tools….


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I sorta miss the access to "materials" when I worked in the converting shop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Cow, it's a virgin piece! Hasn't even been cut through to the base.


----------



## CL810

Kevin & Bandit, looks like the ultimate portable mitre box.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, Andy, thanks. Smitty, your the enabler on this one. I made a wise crack a while ago about your chest needing a mitre box. Your retort was a Gem. Been looking for a well priced one ever since!

Bandit, mine does not have the scale on the side. Don't know if that is a more recent feature or an older one. Next up is to recreate the wood box that they used to come in.


----------



## DLK

*Quick question.* I have a Miller falls- langdon 74C miter box and a Henry Diston 24×4 miter box saw. The manual for the miter box says it came with a 28×5 saw. My plan is to replace the saw plate of the Henry Diston. Can I use instead a 24×6 saw plate? Or should I use a 24×5 saw plate?


----------



## dbray45

It is easier to get the saw.


----------



## DLK

> It is easier to get the saw.
> 
> - dbray45


What do you mean? Do you mean I should just by a "new" saw for the miter box? If so where?


----------



## dbray45

Buy a 28" saw. I picked up one for about $40. I still have to sharpen it but the price was right.

Ebay, CL, flea markets - its all good


----------



## DLK

> Buy a 28" saw. I picked up one for about $40. I still have to sharpen it but the price was right.
> 
> Ebay, CL, flea markets - its all good
> 
> - dbray45


I sure can't find one around here, or on e-bay, or CL. I can get a new saw plate with teeth cut from TGIAG at $45.
I think LN will make a new complete saw for $185 or so.


----------



## dbray45

I may have an extra 28" saw, will check tonight. If I do, $40 plus shipping and its yours. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## DonBroussard

Trying to tap into the miter box experts' brain power here. I have a Langdon Mitre Box Co. box and saw and i have a few missing parts. Based on Internet research, it looks like the major parts are there, but there is one broken leg of the base and the screws which mount the legs to the base. Some Internet pictures of vintage Langdon Mitre Box Co. miter boxes also show some thumbscrews on the saw supports-mine has the taps for the thumbscrews but no screws.

I'd appreciate it if someone can point me to a resource where I can find replacement parts, other than buying another box and scavenging it for parts.

Here's a picture of the box and saw.


----------



## Airframer

I have been considering building a mitre saw station type apparatus that hangs off the back of my workbench from the toolwell.. maybe have it hook on the back wall?

Do any of you have a dedicated mitre station setup similar to those used for powered chop saws and such? I am looking for ideas.


----------



## summerfi

I posted this saw in the saw thread a few days ago, and I'm still trying to figure out what it is. Is it a miter saw, or is it an extra large tenon saw? The plate is 20". My British friends think it is an American saw. If so, it is likely pre-1860. If it was used as a miter saw, it must have been used in a wooden miter box. There are no signs of wear on the brass spine like would probably be present from a mechanical miter box. So my question for the group is, when were the first mechanical miter boxes made? Were they around by 1860, or was it later?


----------



## theoldfart

Bob,the original Langdon Mitre Box is around that period. Look up Northampton Shoe Peg Company in Northampton, MA


----------



## WoodNSawdust

I don't have one yet. I depend on the DeWalt chop saw or my miter gauge. But I would like one of these.


----------



## summerfi

Thanks Kevin. It looks like Langdon patented the mechanical miter box in 1864. I believe my saw predates that, so if it was used as a miter saw it would have been in a wooden box. That makes me wonder if people during that era even had dedicated miter saws, or if they used a regular backsaw in a wooden box when they needed to cut a miter. I wonder how they did it at Williamsburg.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I don t have one yet. I depend on the DeWalt chop saw or my miter gauge. But I would like one of these.
> 
> - WoodNSawdust


Definitely a nice build, not a lot of capacity for wide stock. Not using much of the blade to do the work, either.


----------



## theoldfart

Bob,I didn't notice any mitre boxes in the cabinet shop there. Then again I was like a kid in a candy store, too many choices in the tool related eye candy area!


----------



## Airframer

Well…. I knocked together my toolwell hanger mitre saw station. Seems to work pretty good and allows the full use of the benchtop while having the mitre saw available for use as needed.




























Putting some lipstick on the pig now then final assembly and I need to build a re-positionable board jack to go with it.


----------



## Airframer

Annd it's done..


----------



## bandit571

Not sure which saw to use with this mitre box…the 18" Craftsman?









Or, the 22" long Craftsman?









The $5 miter box came with the 22" saw. Unsure where the Craftsman 18" saw came from….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like the 22" would be make that box more useful than the 18"...


----------



## theoldfart

^yup.


----------



## BinghamtonEd

Can anybody identify this one? Seller wants $20 for the box and saw. I'm in need of one so I'm going to take a look this week.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Same basic box as the Stearns posted about (see #996), and a little later a Perfection box followed the same design. I like that it's cast and steel, and has the preset rods as a feature (seems complete). Haven't seen one like it before.

The box is on the small side, so depending on the type of work you want to use it for, it may be right on or it might be undersized. That type of saw frame means you can use any saw with it, not just a backsaw.

For $20, I'd buy to have the backsaw and a small box. Don't have any info for you on the make of it though…


----------



## CL810

$20 is a steal. Are the rods for holding small pieces?


----------



## BinghamtonEd

I was thinking they were to act as stops for repeatable cuts. They don't appear to have any grippy/textured surface, so I don't know if they'd hold the wood super well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, stops for cuts as Ed says. From either side, too. Did you buy it yet (said the Enabler)?


----------



## BinghamtonEd

Not yet, the person who listed it apparently only checks their e-mail once per day (I've gotten two responses at 4:24 on consecutive days), so I asked yesterday if I could swing by today on my lunch break, and heard nothing back. I'm sure I'll get a response after my lunch break. It's a 15 minute drive each way, so I'm not going to go out unless I know someone will be there.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Speaking of stops… I've finally managed to complete a set for the Goodell Pratt miter box. Check these guys out!



















Thanks to brad for measuring all the dimensions on his parts!


----------



## theoldfart

^ any bets on how long it takes Smitty to see this?

Nice work. Did you make extras? There are more than a few people looking for these.


----------



## ShaneComeBack

I did not make extras…yet  I was originally having my co-worker machine the parts, but he got too busy so I finally started learning how to work the equipment myself and finished them up today. Now that I know what I'm doing I've got the itch to just keep machining!


----------



## summerfi

Those look really nice. Good job!


----------



## Mosquito

Those look nice Shane, any pictures of them in operation?

If you've got the itch to keep machining, I've got some stuff for you ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, be still my heart!!!!

ACKKK!!

Oh, and I learned something about my supposed G-P box last night. Surfing ebay, saw a listing of a G-P mitrebox exactly like mine, 'cept he called it a 1904 Goodell Mfg mitrebox. Then I saw it: An etch at the top of the front post in his pictures. Went to mine, and Eureka! Mine is also a Goodell Mfg All-Steel! Because it doesn't have a bonafide nameplate, I always wondered!

I'll try for pics later tonight or this weekend.

Shane, those look AWESOME!!!!!


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks guys, they were fun to make. Mos, feel free to shoot me a message about what you need and I'll let you know if its something that can be done. No action pictures yet but I'm sure I'll come up with something soon.


----------



## racerglen

Picked yesterday, 50 and a half sweetheart









Someone got creative with stair moulding to keep it a user..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

#50 1/2 with a priceless field mod. Gotta feel good about that.


----------



## DocBailey

back-to-back aluminum stair tread nosing?

looks like it was meant to be there.


----------



## racerglen

Now I go looking for background on the box and nothing shows anything between the tops of the two sets of guides, just the two posts sticking up either side of the wood ? I'd thought, based on my 358's that the stair stuff was replacing the flat steel. (and whoo, this thing is HEAVY, seems to top the bigger sweetheart 358 for weight)


----------



## racerglen

Help ? Is there supposed to be a bar or not ?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Catalogue No. 34 (SW) says not, Glen.


----------



## racerglen

AhAh ! Thanks Smitty !


----------



## DLK

Good job Smitty. But then I see images like this on the web.










Is the bar then a later feature on a later model or an upgrade purchased separately, or what? I find this confusing.

(Having a second look. I think pictured must be a later model.)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I believe the flat 'bar' is in play on these Stanley boxes keeps the frame assy stable when cutting taller stock. All the models come apart for travel, and there are lots of adjustments possible to 'dial them in' for perfect cuts.


----------



## racerglen

Don I think what you're showing is a later model, the slots in the back upright are for the holdfasts to go through even though the wooden table on your picture aren't dado-ed for them. Mine has no such slots and the release/adjuster to pick your angle is different.

Speaking of holdfasts, I'd asked for measurements/sizes for the older 358 a while back, and an "Eric" said just a moment, then I never heard back ? Not sure which Eric it was ?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Glen, refresh our memories. What 'measurements/sizes for the older 358' were you looking for? Parts of it, or for the saw, or ?


----------



## racerglen

the sizes for the holdfasts Smitty, the flat bars that have rods sticking up on one end to clamp your victim, er wood against the back upright. Mine has all the rest of the bits except those two items.


----------



## Airframer

That "Eric" was me.. Life around here is wholly chaotic and unpredictable and doesn't seem to be changing any time soon and I simply forgot about measuring the stock guides.


----------



## racerglen

S'OK Eric, I'm sure they'll turn up somewhere ;-)
And can understand what's going on with the situation you've got !


----------



## Airframer

Here ya go Glenn.. I am flakier than a Pillsbury biscuit right now and I hate being like that.. No real excuses.

358 Stock Guides..


----------



## Airframer

Also.. the 246 got it's first cuts out of the way today..










Lovin' it!


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, how'd the repeat stop work out?


----------



## Airframer

It actually performed swimmingly. I was expecting some slop or fiddling to be had but nope.. it worked as advertised.


----------



## theoldfart

I've used my GP stop quite a few times and the cuts were dead on as well.


----------



## racerglen

Great, MUCH appreciated Eric !


----------



## johnstoneb

I came home from Coeur'd'Alene today and this was waiting for me. I have had a 28×5 back saw for years. I don't even know where it came from. When I finally cleaned it up a couple of years ago it had no etch but the back was stamped Langdon miter box co, Miller Falls. I have been looking for a box for it for about a year finally found one at a decent price. $20 plus shipping total $48. It does have one leg broken and the sliding short lever has been repaired but it is an excellent repair. I just need to clean it up and put it to work.


----------



## duckmilk

Bruce, glad you found one finally. More pics when you get it cleaned.

Saw these at an antique shop the other day. The 2358A has the leg set missing from the right side, a depth stop missing from the front post (present on the back post), the miter adjustment was frozen (but looked like it could be freed up), bearings present, and both stock guides missing. Also missing the saw. $49.00, but could be talked down.

I wasn't even looking for one, but what do you guys think?

The posts were in the up position and I couldn't figure out how to release the saw guide catches.














































This 2246A was behind it but missing the front post and a few other things, but could be used for parts. Also $49.00 "firm"? Consignment maybe? The saw with this one looks to me more like it belongs with the 2358, but I didn't bring my tape measure.



















Disston Porter










Will go back to measure the saw and play with these more.

What would be the chances of finding another set of feet and the other parts for the 2358?

Would I be able to part out to someone parts from the 2246? I know, $49 firm, nah, I wouldn't pay that much for it, but may be able to educate her about the lack of usefulness of it in its present condition…or not.

Suggestions?


----------



## DanKrager

I has questions.

Has anyone ever wondered why the makers made their miter boxes so the last four inches (on some) of blade near the handle will never be used? I mean, why bother to cut teeth there because they will never, ever reach the cutting action. There's just that much more to sharpen etc, etc,... ????

DanK


----------



## ToddJB

My Diston made Stanley doesn't have teeth at the end. Perhaps with the others it was easier to run the blade all the way through a teeth stamper then to stop it at the end.


----------



## farfromislay

Hi Folks:
This is my first post, and as a starter, I'm looking for some help with a rare Mitre Box I purchased near Buffalo, NY last year.

It is a J.J. Cowell patent (1889) and was made at Weedsport, NY. There is a fault in that it is missing the detent pin and a small casting piece that would have held it in place.

I am wondering whether any of the folks here might be able to help me with the appropriate back saw. I tried an older and smaller Disston mitre saw however; it did not fit into the casting. The ¾" back spine was too tall…

Any help would be appreciated… an great site by the way…

Doug


----------



## theoldfart

Can't help with saw or parts advice but we'd sure like to see a few more pics of that mitre box! I've not seen one like that before.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I sure agree with Kevin: More pics, please!

We have some saw makers on LJs that might be able to build (or modify) a backsaw that'd fit the box properly. And there are a few folks here that have very extensive collections of tools that may know more about the J.J. Cowell patent you have. Or even catalog pages that show it.


----------



## walden

Smitty: I bought 5/16 diameter rods in two foot lengths. They fit well under the mitre box, but also are very useful for most of the cuts I make. My mitre box is a Stanley 2358 for reference. (Not sure if they came in different lengths.)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, thanks for the info Walden!


----------



## walden

You're welcome. I should also mention that my mitre box came with the original rods (although they were too bent up to use) and they were 24 inches each.


----------



## walden

Question: Does anyone have the two screws and tabs that hold the saw up in the air for the Stanley 2358? That is the only thing mine is missing.


----------



## Tim457

Doug, that looks pretty cool, this looks like your patent, have you seen this yet:
http://www.google.com/patents/US409455
Make sure to click on original image to see the full size version then expand it again.

Can you give a close up of where the detent and cast piece are missing or identify them on the patent drawings?


----------



## farfromislay




----------



## farfromislay




----------



## farfromislay

Sorry Guys… I'm not good at the pictures.


----------



## bandit571

stopped at a garage sale today, and spent a whopping $3

Stanley Handyman H 114A almost new in box. Doesn't come with a saw, though.

Note: on the underside of the box… Continential Can Company, INC Portland, CONN.

Mitre box looks barely used, mainly at the 90 degree mark. Paint is still like new.

And to think, still have a full day tomorrow to go rust hunting…

Photos when I can get around to it…









Box says it can use a back saw, or a panel saw









Might be worth the $3? Note, the label is like new, too.


----------



## summerfi

Love the castings on that Cowell. It's a piece of art.


----------



## upchuck

farfromislay-
Thanks for the photos. I have no idea if that box of yours is complete. I have no idea if that box of yours has ever or will ever be a high functioning and/or high quality tool. But I do know that for sheer beauty and Victorian style your box tops every other box I've ever seen. I hope that you can do the appropriate research and return that box to it's original glory. That type of fu-fu styling makes me smile and it seems so out of place for industrial working tools. But at the same time that style dates it to that period when sensibilities were so different from our time. I'm delighted that you rescued that tool from the clutches of the steam punk folks. I have no quarrel with the steam punk artists but I'm glad your miter box is in your hands. I look forward to what you do with it. I'll bet it will be worth your efforts.
chuck


----------



## duckmilk

Tim, where did you dig that patent up? In response to your question and after looking at the drawings, I think it is the mechanism at the front of the mitre box that locks the pivoting table in place at different detents (my guess at least).

farfromislay, all I can say is WOW! The neat thing is it seems to allow the saw to be stored parallel to the fence and brought into an operating position.

Edit: figure 10 shows a plow? As in plow plane?


----------



## duckmilk

Bandit, what are the dimensions of the box? ($3.00, yup)


----------



## bandit571

Mitre box is 12-3/8" long, by 3-1/2" deep. Looks like my Disston No. 7 will work just fine.

Box even has one panel devoted to "How to use" the mitre box.

Will be on the look out tomorrow for a saw to fit….


----------



## theoldfart

Farfromislay, thanks for the pics. That is a work of art, really glad you rescued it.


----------



## walden

I agree. Coolest mitre box I've ever seen!


----------



## Tim457

Duck you can find lots of patents just by googling the patent date. In his first post it didn't list the exact patent date, but he gave the name so I just typed J.J. Cowell patent 1889 into a google search box and the first result was what looks to be the right one.

It works for lots of tools. If you see a plane with a certain date, type in the date and the word plane into google's search and you can often find the relevant patent. But that doesn't mean whatever you have followed the patent or drawings exactly. Sometimes they list the patent but only use the patented idea approximately.

That thing is seriously cool, I agree.


----------



## Tim457

Bandit, I have what appears to be that same Handyman mitre box. I bought it before I got into woodworking and was not impressed that it didn't guide my saw to a perfect cut for me. But now that I have better skills with a saw it might work reasonably well.


----------



## bandit571

The H114A MIGHT be ok for things like quarter round trim. Figures, now that I'm done install mine. Might have saved a few trips down to the Dungeon Shop.

Slipped the Disston No.7 saw into the H114A…..Adjusted to a close fit. Seems to do ok. Might keep it around, as it is easier to move around than the "main" mitrebox I have in the shop









That 22" long saw will wear an arm out…


----------



## farfromislay

Hi Folks:

Thanks for all of the tool postings. I left at 4:00 a.m. for a very long day of tool hunting today… got back home at 7:00 p.m. It was good.

I looked at the patent info when I first got the mitre box - thanks all the same. I actually learned it was a Cowell because of that. I knew it was rare because the search engines only brought up the patent and a small picture of one from an old Donelly auction.

A tool friend who is a heavy hitter collector gave me the impression that the mitre box is super rare… like he owns 2, knows of mine and one other… and he lives not far from Weedsport…

I don't know how long Flint continued to run an operation in Rochester after he created an operation in St. Catherines, Ontario but, that could be a source of saws given how close Rochester was. I will have to hit my library tonight (I think I have some American sawmakers directory upstairs)...

I have a fair number of saws (at east 100) and mitre boxes around at home…

Thanks again for the responses.

Doug


----------



## duckmilk

> Hi Folks:
> 
> I have a fair number of saws (at east 100) and mitre boxes around at home…
> 
> Thanks again for the responses.
> 
> Doug
> 
> - farfromislay


^Hoarder


----------



## duckmilk

> The H114A MIGHT be ok for things like quarter round trim. Figures, now that I m done install mine. Might have saved a few trips down to the Dungeon Shop.
> 
> - bandit571


Umm, where do you keep the H114A? On the kitchen table?


----------



## bandit571

Have a tool box upstairs. I can also use the saw bench out on the back patio. Which was where I tried out the Craftsman Mitre box at. Later got a bench for the big mitresaw. Now have two small portable boxes to go where needed.


----------



## racerglen

Love it when things start to come together !









Holdfasts for my 358 mitre box with very special thanks to Airframer Eric and UpChuck for photos and measurements ..








Realized I have a great rescource in a retired mechanic/machinist friend, he whipped these off Sunday afternoon, and then moved on to getting a snapped off rear tote bolt out of a Millers Falls #9 (Stanley #4 size) plane I've had in a box for some years.. $10 for the holdfasts.
Later today or tomorrow I should have the proper thumbscrew for my picture frame machine's deck to replace the 6" carriage bolt someone had subbed in, several other projects nearing a wrap, must be about time to go shopping again ? lol !


----------



## Tim457

Those are sweet. It's good to know machinists.


----------



## racerglen

Aymen !


----------



## johnstoneb

Can anyone tell me what color the frame on a Langdon Acme miter box was? This is a #74 type 2 1/2 probably 1910 to 1930 manufacture date. The little bit of paint I can find on it looks like it was black or a dark brown.


----------



## DLK

My #74c has a gray frame.


----------



## CampD

Good buy.
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/tls/5000010043.html


----------



## johnstoneb

Thanks, Don


----------



## johnstoneb

I finally got the time to clean this box up
Here is the before









The after I think I found a pretty good home for that saw. Just need to make the 2 stockholders and it will be complete.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Wow, Bruce! Very nice job!


----------



## racerglen

What Smitty said !


----------



## CL810

Looks very nice Bruce.


----------



## racerglen

Just "Perfekt", mini mitre box, likely German in origin ?








$2.00 and should work with one of my smaller dovetail saws.










Knobs on the ends lock the repeat cut off guide, the table locks with an Allen key.


----------



## theoldfart

Just scored another mitre box, Langdon Acme. Looks to be a 30" saw (I hope )

Pics to follow


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Glen, just seeing that box, looks very cool. How's it working? And OF, you know it simply does not exist except in pictures.


----------



## theoldfart

yea, I know. you folks will get what I got when I get it, ok


----------



## racerglen

Smitty, once I found the right Allen key and could lock it in place, it works fine, but don't have a backsaw that will fit, pannel saw as a test worked though.


----------



## theoldfart

I've been watching this on CL for a while. Finally bought it today.









It's a Langdon Acme 74 size 2 1/2 roughly 1910 to 1926.









The saw is not as big as I thought, a 28" x 5" Simonds









First time I've seen a WS medallion on a Simonds









Missing a set of stock guides and a set of saw stops and needs some cleaning and oiling.


----------



## CL810

Can't wait for the restore pics Kevin.


----------



## johnstoneb

That looks just like the one I just finished. Nice box when done. Mine is missing the same. I did make a pair of stock guides. just a 5/16 carriage bolt and a piece of 9/16 cold roll about 2" long drill and tap a hole in one end and cut a screw driver slot in the other.


----------



## theoldfart

Bruce, thanks. I was hoping for a #75, the original pics didn't show the model number. I have two Goodell Mfg allsteel boxes of the same size. I am glad it came with the Simonds #95 mitre saw.


----------



## dbray45

Now that I am getting my retoother and filer working, what is the normal tooth count for miter saws? I have found a number of formats with some that had no set on the teeth. Any ideas on what works best?

Thanks


----------



## theoldfart

Millers falls, Goodell, and Langdon used 11ppi crosscut


----------



## dbray45

I can do that - Thank you


----------



## olddutchman2

Some very nice Miter Saws! I am a Person who loves them all! I have a few of that type of saw. In fact, I have 3 of them in My shop. I apologize for My lack of pictures, but I can not get to My basement easily do to nerve damage in My back, Blood clots in both legs and a few other things! I love to see Yours though, and hope to have the energy to get back to My shop. I like take, for instance, and just clean, and polish it all up! This keeps the saw alive in it's glory. Thanks for the post.


----------



## dbray45

I have 2 mitre backsaws that are in the need of sharpening - and retoothing. I bought the equipment and some of it was in rough shape, others needed a serious cleaning. The springs in both the filer and retoother were shot and needed to be replaced - made all the different in the world. I bought a bunch of saws to practice on and am making headway. One saw - in the pictures - gives you an idea. It is missing a tooth, this was because of one of those weak springs.



















I toothed my old dovetail saw last night and found when I counted the teeth, I counted 16 teeth, 11 teeth, and everything in between. I put the saw to 15 ppi and set the teeth. Tonight or tomorrow, I will sharpen it.


----------



## warrenkicker

Apparently you are all very bad influences on me. This thread got me to thinking that a miter box would be something nice to have. I wasn't finding anything on CL or at garage sales but then looked on CL under antiques instead of tools. Well there was one with very little information and a very close up picture from the right hand side of the blade. You could see the Stanley logos on the blade guides. I emailed and got a couple more photos. One was of the label for a #246 sweetheart. I decided I wanted to take a look at it so I went to meet the guy today. From the pictures I thought one of the rods and the tree were missing. Well I got a nice surprise when I saw it as the tree was being stored in an unusual location. The saw is a Keen Kutter but no brass hardware. Here are some pics of what I got for $25. Looks like I am missing the little clamp that goes on the saw to release it, a screw and the top brace. Also no part #109. Any dating would be appreciated. The tree has a patent date on it of 10-31-16. The deck of the casting has the two patent dates from 09 and 12.


----------



## bandit571

There is a saw on the loose









That I just didn't have the room for…..so this went home with another LJ…...

Note: It made my 22" Craftsman look puny….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, that is so fine for $25!! It's almost u suck quality… More tomorrow when i have a chance to review pics i. Detail, but impresssions are, Nice Pickup!


----------



## Tim457

Very nice for $25, with the length gauges. It'll make a good saw.


----------



## rhybeka

Bahahahahaha! it went home with me  Thanks to Ham! Unfortunately I haven't gotten back to my shop since I got home from WS so here's a few blurry/hurried pics :\ I'll post more after this weekend when I get back in the shop.


----------



## johnstoneb

Need more pictures. Is that a 358 with the major pieces intact.


----------



## warrenkicker

Started working on cleaning up the saw that came with my 246 yesterday. Turned out that saw was a 20×4. Very short saw strokes. Guess I will put my Stanley 26×5 in it and move the depth stops up. I will have Keen Kutter 20×4 back saw with nowhere to live pretty soon.


----------



## warrenkicker

Started stripping down the 246 this weekend. Took a bit to get all of the screws to come out but eventually they did. Then I started cleaning to remove rust and paint. Everything that isn't painted is swimming in evaporust and the painted parts were headed for some citrus paint stripper after a cleaning with simple green. The simple green must have done something as the "black" paint wasn't so black after cleaning and setting in the sun. Dark green doesn't look so bad either. You can see the lever for the adjustment mechanism is actually still black but everything else was green. I also found another patent stamped of the bases for the uprights. I will post a picture another time.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I'm looking to pick up a miter box (I kind of want to get rid of my Dewalt miter saw) but I'm uninitiated. For instance, I might take a little drive to take a look at this, provided the seller gets back to me and it's still available -










Seller simply IDs it as a Stanley, no further info. Any idea of what I'm looking at? What should I be looking for when it, or something similar, is in front of me (besides the obvious like severe rust/pitting)?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## warrenkicker

Completeness and the lack of damage would be my first thoughts. The saw handle looks old but it is missing the bottom horn. The height of the guides, thickness of the blade, and height of the slots through the backstop indicate it could be a Stanley 358. The tag should be either on the right hand end of the base or on the top of the circular section right in front of the wood deck. Something seems wrong with the locks that hold the saw up. They both look the same and my understanding is that they should not. I also don't see the rods and length stop stand (tree). The stock guides aren't visible either. Asking for a picture from the back would help with identifying missing parts.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Completeness and the lack of damage would be my first thoughts. The saw handle looks old but it is missing the bottom horn. The height of the guides, thickness of the blade, and height of the slots through the backstop indicate it could be a Stanley 358. The tag should be either on the right hand end of the base or on the top of the circular section right in front of the wood deck. Something seems wrong with the locks that hold the saw up. They both look the same and my understanding is that they should not. I also don t see the rods and length stop stand (tree). The stock guides aren t visible either. Asking for a picture from the back would help with identifying missing parts.
> 
> - warrenkicker


Ah! Thanks much - I've looked up the 358 and it does look like it may be a match. I also see what you're talking about in terms of missing guides and stops. The story is that this used to belong to the seller's grandfather, and that the seller doesn't really know anything about it. Asking price is $35. I don't know if I'll get any additional pics before tomorrow, though, which is when I hope to have a look at it in person, assuming that it's worth checking out at that price.


----------



## warrenkicker

Here is the information on the Keen Kutter 20×4 back saw that came with my new Stanley 246 miter box. There was some oil, rust and stains on the blade. I went down to 800 and then blued the logo and back before waxing the entire blade. The hardware appears to be nickel-plated brass. The tote is nice with very little damage. I made a little saw dust though it could be sharper. 3 7/8" blade left with 10 PPI.


----------



## Mosquito

> Asking price is $35. I don t know if I ll get any additional pics before tomorrow, though, which is when I hope to have a look at it in person, assuming that it s worth checking out at that price.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Go get it for $35 or I will! lol

Seriously though, if it works even if it doesn't have 100% of the parts, it's still easily worth $35 in my opinion.


----------



## Tim457

Bill that's definitely a reasonable deal even in the condition it looks like it's in. It'll get you working, but don't throw out your Dewalt any time soon since it is nowhere near as fast. It is fun though as long as you're not in a rush to complete a project.

Nice work on that saw, Warren.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Ha - the problems of having local LJ members 

Yeah, I'm taking the trip tomorrow. After looking at prices and the restores, it does seem to be a good price and some of the missing bits looks like they could be replaced without too much fuss or expense.


----------



## warrenkicker

I agree. Based on what we can see the "have-to-have" parts are there but some of the "nice-to-have" parts are missing.


----------



## Mosquito

I second Warren. My miter saw is 'bare bones', missing some parts, but it still works just fine


----------



## rhybeka

ok - finally got more pics tonight after I vacuumed the saw dust off and got it raised up a bit


----------



## duckmilk

> Need more pictures. Is that a 358 with the major pieces intact.
> 
> - johnstoneb


Becka/Becky, 358 or something else?


----------



## rhybeka

Not a clue,D - I'm a total newb this stuff  been looking for a makers mark - just not hard enough I guess


----------



## johnstoneb

There should be a tag on one of the ends giving you all that information.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I ended up grabbing the miter box that I'd posted a couple days ago. It looks very similar to Becka's - no tag to be found, but mine doesn't even have the patent info on the arc, though "Stanley" is prominently marked on the saw guides. Saw looks very very similar, too (Disston made for Stanley), and is in great shape. Pics later, it's in parts now.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Bill. Look forward to the pics. Good thing you didn't make me go get it, I just bought a Siegley plane instead


----------



## WillliamMSP

I'm happy to be of service, Mos! 

So I want to take the upright posts off to sand/clean - to do that, do I need to remove the big slotted screw underneath? I see from the diagrams (linked in post 1 of this thread) that the posts are connected to a conical piece (which is then held in by that large screw), but I don't have anything on-hand with a blade that thin and wide and I don't see anywhere on the diagram that indicates how the posts are connected to the cone…


----------



## warrenkicker

Yes. There is a knurled screw on the bottom of the adjustable arm. I had to carefully use a pliers as mine did not have a screw driver slot. There were small holes in the sides of the head that may have been for a spanner wrench but I had nothing that fit. Then you will likely have to bump the side of the uprights to get them unjambed from the conical holes. Just bump them hard enough to break the base loose with actually breaking anything. 
The worst screw I came across was the main pivot screw. That one was extremely tight. It helped when I used a crescent wrench on the screwdriver blade to increase the torque.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Okay, thanks. Hmmm… cleaning them in place is looking more and more attractive…


----------



## warrenkicker

Well here mine is cleaned up with some fresh paint. I didn't go for the silver back and black everywhere else. My nickel plating was also in poor condition so I used the silver on many of the accessories. The posts on the front may still be too loose so they will probably require more shimming. I still need to make a new wood deck as well. It is coming along though.

Bill -once you have the post screws loosened a couple of turns you can tap on them with a hammer to drive the post out of the conical holes. It is easier than it may sound.


----------



## warrenkicker




----------



## johnstoneb

That cleaned up really well. Nice job.


----------



## freerange

I just today picked up my first handsaw miter box, been wanting one for awhile, but didn't want to pay that much shipping from e-bay. Anyhow it's a Goodall Pratt 1114. WAs a little rusty but a quick cleaning had it running nicely. Seems to have everything. My question is, does anyone know where I can find a PDF of the owners manual? I will try to get some pics taken and loaded soon.


----------



## freerange

Oh, and i6t has an Atkins saw with it, a little rusty but I will get that cleaned up. Paid $4 for it, figured I couldn't get hurt for that price


----------



## Tim457

I don't see anything for that model specifically, but there is a lot of information here:
https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/gallery/goodell
Good find, looking forward to pictures.

Edit: And wow, nice Warren.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Whelp, my miter box just got about $90 more expensive - as I was working on it, I knocked my Fulton combo plane off of the bench (boneheaded, it really should have been put away) and it snapped on the ground. Grr.


----------



## theoldfart

Ouch! Real bad karma.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

LumberJocks Care Package Today!










20" Keen Kutter from Warren!










This one is perfect for the Stanley 150 mitrebox, I think!


----------



## warrenkicker

Glad to see it made it there in good condition.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The KK 20" / Stanley #150 Combo:


----------



## ToddJB

Well? Hows she preform?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's a good combo! Short vido coming soon.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And I just looked at the Bad Axe site; his 150 model saw is 20", so this one is spot on. Using it quite a bit, actually. Nice size for quick jobs, and does very nice work. Portable, manageable. Love it.


----------



## warrenkicker

Good to hear. That small guide surface allows a saw that short to produce reasonable length strokes. Sounds like it is sharp enough maybe.


----------



## DLK

Smitty I like the way you "fixed" your miter box to the bench using the wonder dog and bench dog.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Warren, it does fit the 'sharp enough' description! Had to make room in my otherwise full saw till for that KK 20"; it's that good, and I"m reaching for it more than any other backsaw lately. Love it.

And Don, there's no substitute for quick, easy and effective. The #150 is small enough to grab by the 'horn' and carry over to the benchtop without much effort at all past the few steps it takes to get it. And pinching between dogs just makes sense. I've tried cleats on the bottom of mitreboxes that clamp in the leg vise, but that's just not versitile… can't set them on a normal shelf, or use them other places like the board-bottom style can be.


----------



## duckmilk

Smitty and others, regarding sizes of mitre boxes, how many times do you need or prefer one of the big ones. I've been sort of looking and thought for most of my perceived needs, a smaller one would probably see more use.


----------



## johnstoneb

Get the size you think you need. Miter boxes are a little like hand planes one is never enough. I haven't use mine on anything aver about 2" wide but I have the capacity for more if desired. I have 2 boxes right now but find I have to keep away from ebay and CL or I might have more.


----------



## Tim457

Duck I have a Langdon Acme that is a fairly large one and I find that if it's set up I'll even cheat and use it to crosscut a board about as wide as it will fit because I know it's accurate and quicker than knifing a line then sawing. Leaves a nice edge too since it's 11ppi.


----------



## chrisstef

I was suggested to post this over here. A number 2 miter box tree. The 203 is all mines though . If anyone needs one shoot me a pm. Lets do some tradesies.


----------



## CL810

Does the '2' mean it's for a 246 box?


----------



## ToddJB

Andy, my understanding is the 2 fits all the 2XX size frames and a 3 fits the 3XX sized frames.


----------



## chrisstef

Im far from in the know on the tree and other miter box parts. It was a package deal with that 203. Todd was able to ID it for me luckily.


----------



## ToddJB

Search-fu



> Hope these are readable. This is off a 2246 should be the same as 246.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - johnstoneb


----------



## ToddJB

Then confirmed by Doc and AF



> *Don t quote me, but …*
> 
> I m pretty sure there are two different sizes of trees-one marked "2"; the other "3-4"
> 
> They *may* correspond to the frame sizes/numbers.
> 
> repeat: this is just a vague memory, but worth checking out (I am not currently near my boxes)
> 
> - DocBailey





> You are correct doc. 1-2 went with the 1XX 2XX frames and the 3-4 went with the 3XX 4XX frames.
> 
> - Airframer


----------



## theoldfart

AND you can never have too many mitre boxes, just saying


----------



## CL810

Thanks Todd! Your search skills are masterful!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Five mitre boxes, Kevin? I'm thinking that might be enough, but then my eyes are kinda closed when it comes to quantities of tools in my shop space these days.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, I can stop any time I want ( maybe)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I hear ya, brother.


----------



## CL810

^^ Deluded enablers.


----------



## theoldfart

^ one should not throw stones buddy!


----------



## CL810

Bless our hearts! Lol


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, I can stop any time I want he says as he continues to plummet! 

It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the end that kills us. So far, so good….

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

> Smitty, I can stop any time I want he says as he continues to plummet!
> 
> It s not the fall that hurts, it s the sudden stop at the end that kills us. So far, so good….
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


There it is folks, just keep falling :-D


----------



## duckmilk

Listed on Denver CL, $75. Stanley 346A and even has the saw blade thingy, wrong saw tho.

https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5090619059.html


----------



## daddywoofdawg

Is there any interest in a trade,this for a Miter saw,for a pistol grip sharp dovetail saw,and maybe a plane?



























I have more photos


----------



## warrenkicker

Just saw two miter boxes on CL locally. One looks old and one looks too new for my taste. It appears to be a Craftsman 3634 with likely a Craftsman saw with a tote designed with no sense of style. I think I will ask about the older one and try to get more pictures. Anyone have an idea about the manufacturer of the one on the left? Seems to somewhat match GP or Millers Falls though the seller indicates Craftsman.


----------



## theoldfart

Warren, I think it's a Goodell Mfg box. Also it looks like one of the hard to find small one. What are they asking?


----------



## warrenkicker

$15 for one or $25 for both


----------



## Mosquito

^ I'd be sold on at least the one on the left (and agree with Kevin on the Goodell)


----------



## warrenkicker

I might just go for that and offer it up to someone on here for a few bucks more than my expenses. Have to get this stuff in the hands of people who appreciate and can use the good old tools.


----------



## Johnny7

Left hand box appears to be a Millers Falls 15 ½ (and desirable)


----------



## Mosquito

Johnny's got a good eye, and if that's the case, very much yes get it!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, heck, yes!


----------



## theoldfart

go get it NOW!


----------



## warrenkicker

I have a call in to the seller. Had to leave a message. We will see.


----------



## warrenkicker

First off I like to believe people. Some guy here had a bunch of old tools for sale and agreed to meet with me so I could get some of them. Well he has given me the run around ever since. So back to this miter box. I am still completely hopeful but the guy I needed to call said he was a crane operator working in the next state. Sounds a little funny to post a listing late Sunday night and then leave the state. Well in talking to him he gave no indication that anyone else had called. I need to call him Friday evening after 6:30 so once again we will see. Reviewing things more it looks like the 15 1/2 you guys think it is. Sure hope it is. Saw one sold on eBay recently for quite a bit.


----------



## kwblack

I would be very interested in an older, cast iron miter box. I have a PayPal account and love old tools. 1950's Delta Homecraft bandsaw, 1950's Delta Homecraft disk sander, 1960's Craftsman joiner, 1950's Atlas drill press, but I am seriously lacking a miter box of the same or earlier vintage. Oh, just got a 1970's Dewalt-Black and Decker radial arm saw last spring. Send me a message if anyone has one gathering dust, I don't want to resort to EBay.


----------



## bandit571

I keep trying, but that saw in the background keeps photo-bombing me…









Not only does it have a 22" Craftsman saw ( on board) there is a 22" Penn. Corp saw hanging up nearby, waiting it's turn….Between the two saws and the mitrebox….I might have….$6 invested..


----------



## warrenkicker

Well here it is. There is no marking I can find anywhere on the box. There is some pencil writing in the bottom of one of the deck boards but it seems too little to be an original price. 
The deck boards have abrasive on them and that is what makes the boards black. There are screws in the columns but no depth stop brackets or screws. All in all it is pretty clean with very little rust. IM me if it seems like something you need. It is really small and cute but I don't need it. 




































And now here is the little guy sitting on the much bigger 246.


----------



## warrenkicker

Something interesting going on here all of the sudden. Now this one is out there. I can see about picking this up for someone and sending it your way. They are asking $40.


----------



## warrenkicker

Looks to be a New Langdon Improved with circular arms. Model number between 26 and 35. Saw is a Disston. Looks like the back post may be braised.


----------



## Tim457

Warren that's a nice one. The problem with these is they are rather expensive to ship. But at $40 that may be worth it for someone who can't find one locally.

I picked up this Stanley SW 246 at the MWTCA meet auction for $2.50. If anyone is interested in parts from it let me know. I'm pretty sure I don't want another one and the wood part of the deck is pretty chewed up. It's also missing some of the commonly missing parts, but it does have the top bar that a lot of people seem to be missing. I can also take more closeups if needed.


----------



## warrenkicker

The little miter box I have shown above is now sold. Thanks for asking about it.


----------



## Johnny7

My latest acquisition-a gift from Doc, who says he can't bring himself to clean up another miter box.

It appears to be identical to the very first one posted in this thread by Smitty.

Someone has spray painted parts of it red, but everything's here (except the saw and that elusive automatic trip lever which bolts to the spine)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like a fine box! And tool chest handles are nice pick-ups, too!


----------



## CL810

*Tim*, many thanks for your offer of parts from the 246! I am in need of an adjusting screw that hides behind the clamping lever just above the index pin. You have to compress the clamping lever to see this screw.

Below is a pic of the good screw I have but the head is broken off on the one on the other side. These screws make the final adjustment of the angle settings.

Does your box still have these? Also, like most, I still need one more rod.


----------



## Tim457

You're talking about this one right?









I have that one and all the other screws I can see in your picture, so I'll send one out to you (or both if you need it and it's not a match for the missing screw on my 55.) Just pm your address. But it's going to cost you given how big a hit my wallet took to get this mitre box.


----------



## CL810

Yep, that's the one. I only need the one. Pm coming. *Thanks*!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I finally have instructions, cool!


----------



## Tim457

That's pretty cool Smitty. From the bay?

Anybody else need 246 parts? It's not in perfect condition so I understand that, but I thought lots of people were looking for parts.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yep, finally got shipped but I'm very happy with it. Love the ephemeral / marketing stuff like this.

I need a second rod, if you have an extra of those!


----------



## Tim457

Rod being for the length guide right? If so no, it's missing those unfortunately.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rats! Nope, last piece mine needs then is the trip thingy that goes on the saw. Thanks, Tim!


----------



## DanKrager

You actually read instructions, Smitty? That's awesome! (but I don't know why 

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Just picked this one up at an antique stores on the way to the cabin… Not a screaming deal, but $100 with all its parts seemed fair


----------



## theoldfart

great snag Mos.


----------



## CL810

Ya, very nice indeed!


----------



## donwilwol

A recent find



















After a little clean up and new piece of oak.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Very nice, Don!


----------



## Mosquito

So far as I can tell at the moment, the only thing that's "broken" is the rear hook that holds the saw up is broken, so I'll probably be on the look out for one of those, but not the end of the world. Needs a little cleaning, but otherwise I'm pretty excited about it.

What is that part on the right side anyway? I've seen them before, just not sure I've seen one in use yet…


----------



## upchuck

Mos-
What is the model number of your miter box? That saw looks huge. How big is it?
chuck


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That part is a "Length Stop Stand" that holds up the Extension or Gauge Rods as a length stop. That "...permits sawing duplicate pieces to equal lengths and can be used either right or left hand."



Per the mitrebox card that arrived in the shop earlier this week.


----------



## Tim457

I don't know what the real value on them is but for one in nice shape like that with that many parts that seems like a decent deal.

I have that part from a SW 246 Mos if you want it, let me know.

Nice cleanup Don.


----------



## CL810

For my Stanley 246 there are two screws, MB107, that adjust the arm horizontaly. As you can see in the picture below one of mine is broken which was preventing me from getting a perfect 90 cut.

Tim sent me the screw on the left, which made it possible to make the final adjustment and I am now getting a perfect 90 degree cut.

*Thanks Tim!!!*


----------



## bandit571

Just a GEM…









Found out that IF I rub a candle along the toothline first, it saws a lot better…


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, cutting on the wrong side? I'm confused.

I keep a block of paraffin around all the time.


----------



## Tim457

Awesome Andy. I was a little worried it wouldn't fit, but I'm glad it did.


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos-
> What is the model number of your miter box? That saw looks huge. How big is it?
> chuck
> 
> - upchuck


It's a Stanley 358



> That part is a "Length Stop Stand" that holds up the Extension or Gauge Rods as a length stop. That "...permits sawing duplicate pieces to equal lengths and can be used either right or left hand."
> 
> 
> 
> Per the mitrebox card that arrived in the shop earlier this week.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks Smitty, I think I get it now.



> I don t know what the real value on them is but for one in nice shape like that with that many parts that seems like a decent deal.
> 
> I have that part from a SW 246 Mos if you want it, let me know.
> 
> Nice cleanup Don.
> 
> - Tim


I will likely be sending you a PM shortly


----------



## bandit571

Found out when using that GEM mitrebox….IF the work piece is behind the fence, the saw blade does deflect during the cut. The fence removed any deflection, before the saw hits the wood. About like the front post on the bigger miterboxes.

have that big Craftsman back there, but a router table was in the way. Saw used in the GEM is a Craftsman 18" backsaw. Little bit of candle wax, and the sawdust really flew!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've abandoned the GEM, Bandit. Hinges extended above the plane of the box's base board, and saw holding just wasn't working out. If you find a 150 Stanley on your rust hunts, highly recomended as a small box that's versatile and accurate.


----------



## Mosquito

Haven't gone crazy yet, but I disassembled the 4 rod assemblies and took a scotch bright pad to them to de-rust and de-crud them. Got those cleaned up, waxed up, reassembled, and then cleaned off the saw plate with some naval jelly, steel wool, scotch bright pads, and elbow grease (lots of the last). Haven't sharpened it yet, but it's not bad as it is currently. Haven't done anything with the rest of it yet either.










Pretty dang good too, after the test cuts glued up (scrap moldings from my poster frame)


----------



## bandit571

The GEM I have has all new fold down pieces. Saw guides were a bit loose, no biggie, I loosen one screw, and tapped the guide tighter on the saw blade. Then re-tightened the guide's screw

Relying on screws to hold the box to the bench. Moved around too much using just a clamp or two..

May move things around abit, someday, and get the biggie back in use









Have no clue as to who made this for Craftsman….


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Smitty,

Does your Goodell Pratt have those brackets that clamp to the v-blocks to keep them from moving? If so, would you be able to get me some dimensions on them? I am thinking about machining some for my box then my stops will be 100% complete!

Thanks!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, it does! Stand by, I'll report!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A long-sought-after Stanley part arrived today! Excited!










Headed over to the shop now, Shane!


----------



## summerfi

Here's an interesting miter box that's listed on ebay. I don't plan to bid, but I thought it should be posted here for documentation and general interest. The brand is McKinstry-Walden. Here's a link to the listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Antique-Vintage-1866-1873-McKinstry-Walden-patented-Miter-Box-/391212209881?hash=item5b161096d9


----------



## theoldfart

HEY, BOB'S BACK. YIPEE!

Cool mitre box BUT, the posts are wood! You'd be replacing then frequently to my mind if you wanted precise cuts.


----------



## summerfi

Thanks for the welcome back Kev. Six weeks on the tundra is a long time!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bob! Welcome back, good to see you again.










That's a bery cool box, and I agree with Kevin. Good thing the originals are still present, or you'd be convinced iron was missing!


----------



## Tim457

Welcome back Bob. Thanks for all the work saving the trees.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## DLK

> Thanks for the welcome back Kev. Six weeks on the tundra is a long time!
> 
> - summerfi





> Welcome back Bob. Thanks for all the work saving the trees.
> 
> - Tim


Wait, What? Where have you been Bob and what were you doing? I missed something. Anyway glad your back.
On your list of saws we collected this year. Was there a "Tate saw"?


----------



## theoldfart

Just to muddy the waters Smitty, I have two versions of that clamp. The differences are subtle. I can post pics when I get home if you want.


----------



## upchuck

TOF-
Please muddy the waters. That is a part I'm missing and any variations or subtle differences is of interest to me.
chuck


----------



## summerfi

I don't recall a Tate saw Don. Do you have one?
My summer job is helping fight forest fires. I've been in Alaska the past 6 weeks. Nothing too exciting though. It was an office job.


----------



## theoldfart

Chuck will do. My brains not functioning too well so maybe post a reminder on Saturday ?

The FL heats getting to me. Upside my aunts doing way better, recognized us and seems to be on an even keel finally.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You have two Trips?! Holding out on us, huh?? Why I oughta…

(Okay, pictures pls)


----------



## ShaneComeBack

Thanks Smitty! I might have some scraps lying around I can salvage. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Mosquito

Wait a minute…



> "The saw guide catch (MB84) at the top of the rear Upright "B" will be automatically released by dropping the handle of the Saw"


So… I would be just fine with out having the release lever on that rear catch…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You don't have a MB84 release lever?


----------



## Mosquito

Assuming MB84 is the same thing as MB85, but on the rear guides, that is correct Smitty. At least not yet; it sounds like Tim has one and is willing to get it to me. The catch is there, but the lever that one would use to release the catch is broken off


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Same functional thing, but instead of a lolipop on the end, it's a flat piece of steel that's parallel to the bed of the box. When the saw handle is released and lowered, the saw tilts and the top edge of the saw's back hits the flat, releasing the guide.


----------



## Mosquito

So then I'd be back to not working with just the front release… dag nabbit! lol

Thanks for the info Smitty, this is my first Stanley miterbox  My Lakeside (Goodall Pratt) is a bit more bare-bones it seems, already liking the 358 quite a bit, and only used it to test out so far.


----------



## CL810

Mos I'll swap you an MB85 for an MB 86. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

but that wouldn't get me anywhere either lol


----------



## Ironman132

Hey, Tim. I am restoring a Stanley 358 and need a couple of parts. I think I can use them from your 246. I need the screw for the top of the tie bar (MB 76) and the adjustment screw for the bottom of a saw guide (MB 88). Can you help?
Thanks,
Larry


----------



## Tim457

I don't know the part number I have packaged up for Mos, but it look like that MB85 in the picture above. As soon as I can make it too the post office I'll send it out.

Ironman have one incorrect screw on each top of the tie bar, but the others look correct. I don't know what the MB88 is but I can check for it if you can get me some more detailed pictures.


----------



## Ironman132

MB 88 seems to be threaded rod with a slot in the end (like a set screw). Half of the slotted portion has snapped off on mine. Still scratching my head on how to successfully extract it…

The correct screw for the tie bar should have a knurled head and a pointed tip.


----------



## Ironman132

BTW Tim the MB 88 also has a pointed end which can be seen from the side.


----------



## CL810

Larry, one of my '88's' also is broken as you described. I was able to turn mine by using vise-grip pliers to grab the unbroken half and turn very gently. I probably got lucky but it worked. YMMV. You may want to apply a penetrant before attempting extraction.


----------



## Ironman132

Thanx CL810. I'll try it!


----------



## Tim457

Larry if you mean this part with the arrow in red, then that's the one that's missing.









I do have the two MB88's. Both had damaged slots and I got one of them out. The slot was so stretched out that the "head" has actually expanded. The other one is still stuck but seems to be in better shape with the slot a little damaged but not expanded. It is currently soaking longer in penetrant to see if I can get it out. Still interested in one with a slightly damaged slot?


----------



## DLK

> I don t recall a Tate saw Don. Do you have one?
> My summer job is helping fight forest fires. I ve been in Alaska the past 6 weeks. Nothing too exciting though. It was an office job.
> 
> - summerfi


I do have one. Well I thought I did. On further examination I see on the medialion a fancy script S so State and not tate. Indeed it says "The bay state saw works company".

Its in bad shape as it was found in that old tool chest with all the mouse leavings. Its bent twice and very rusty, but has a visible etch. I'll post it as found on the saws forum tomorrow and you can advise me on what to do with it.


----------



## summerfi

Ahhh…Bay State….that would be a secondary brand of the Simonds company.


----------



## DLK

Yes I just figured that out…. too much out there to keep track of.


----------



## Ironman132

> Larry if you mean this part with the arrow in red, then that s the one that s missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have the two MB88 s. Both had damaged slots and I got one of them out. The slot was so stretched out that the "head" has actually expanded. The other one is still stuck but seems to be in better shape with the slot a little damaged but not expanded. It is currently soaking longer in penetrant to see if I can get it out. Still interested in one with a slightly damaged slot?
> 
> - Tim


Still interested. I'll keep on looking for the tie bar screw. Thanks!


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked up a Stanley 246 miter box (sans saw) this afternoon. I'll post a few pictures and I'd appreciate it if some of you miter box experts can tell me what's missing. My untrained, apprentice eyes tell me it looks pretty complete, except for the lack of a 26×4 back saw.


----------



## ToddJB

Looking good, Don.

You do appear to missing stock guides


----------



## johnstoneb

Don
I have a 28×5 saw so I bought a 2246 thinking I could use that saw. It won't fit. Had to buy a 26×4 for the 2246 then buy a Goodell Pratt box for the 28" saw. These miter boxes can be a reall sickness.


----------



## ToddJB

I may have a 26×4. I'll check when I get home.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Todd.

Tim-Does your 246 have the stock guides?


----------



## Tim457

No sorry Don, definitely missing those. That's why I'm parting it out.


----------



## CL810

Here's a puzzle.

I'm wondering if my box has the right legs on it. It's a Stanley 246 with a number 2 frame. Here's a photo showing the height of the box's platform. How does that compare to other 246's?


----------



## warrenkicker

Don - It appears you are missing the stock guides and the elusive part #109. There is a history of it hidden in this thread. Your saw latches are also both facing the wrong ways. The levers should face away from each other and not toward each other. In post #1249 there is a drawing produced by Stanley showing how it all should be assembled.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Warren. I'm looking for the stock guides now. I did find the manual for the 246 and printed it out. When I start the refurb, I'll switch the latches around-I was not aware that they were facing the wrong ways. I will also review Airframer's blog on his restoration of his 246. I read is casually for enjoyment during his project, but now I need to read it for comprehension. Re: "the elusive part #109, the highest number I found on the drawing was MB106.

BTW, I do have a Disston 24×4 backsaw that will work in my 246.


----------



## ToddJB

Don, 26×4, PM me if you're interested.


----------



## DonBroussard

Todd-PM sent.


----------



## johnstoneb

CL810
My 2246 Frame 2 sits about a 1/16th lower is all.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Bruce.


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

Saw this in my grandparents basement, said they used it to cut trim for their house when they built it over 50 years ago.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Joe, it's time to give that setup a new lease on life!


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

He asked if I wanted it but I don't have room for more stuff at the moment that I don't need, will get it one of these years and bring it back to life.


----------



## CL810

Since when has that been a consideration??? ;-)



> .....but I don t have room for more stuff at the moment that I don t need,......
> - Gixxerjoe04


----------



## Johnny7




----------



## Johnny7

> ... will get it one of these years and bring it back to life.
> - Gixxerjoe04


I was mentored by a guy who used to post here.

He has a massive tool collection (and equally impressive user collection) and a ton of knowledge when it comes to hand tools.
One of the cardinal rules he pounded into my head was: "grab it when you see it"

He had a few heart-breaking tales of things he was going to come back for later, but one thing or another went wrong, or got in the way.

So, my advice is, even with something that you think is safe and sound in your GP s basement, there are no guarantees that a year from now it will still be there or still be intact.

- Johnny7


----------



## theoldfart

^ Andy's confused, so am I









Can probably fit a few more!

Edit, oh yea, there's a Gem in the Dutch chest as well


----------



## Johnny7

Who is Andy?


----------



## Mosquito

CL810 is Andy


----------



## DanKrager

Did some rust hunting in an expensive antique store in Rochester MN and saw this…thought of you guys. It's a totally complete (as far as I could tell) Keen Kutter in pristine condition. Passed at near $400.










DanK


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

Theoldfart, I think you have an addiction haha. It's been there for 50 years at least I'd say so hopefully it'll last a couple more, I just have so much crap in my garage that I'm trying to get rid of to fill in with more and better tools haha. I did take home a scroll saw from him since I didn't have one and it's in good condition, just gotta figure out what I'm going to use it for.


----------



## TheFridge

Stanley 2358A I picked up yesterday. 90$. Too much?


----------



## CL810

No


----------



## duckmilk

Last weekend I went to see a guy that had some mitre boxes. I didn't take any pictures, so all of this is a lie.
He had 2 Stanley 150s, one with all the parts and one that was missint the length stop. I was interested in the complete 150 which he said I could have for $50. He also had a complete (as in all parts) and apparently barely used 2246 with original saw I could have for $75.
I had just paid my quarterly taxes and was conserving funds so I told him I would be back this weekend. He said he wouldn't sell them.
Went back today, guess what? I have no mitre boxes cause he sold them. Crying cause there was not a speck of rust on any of it. I even made a test cut with the 150.


----------



## theoldfart

Duck, I feel your pain. I had a 112 go away something like that.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I know you had no choice, but it's *always* tough to walk away from a deal, saying I'll be back… Thought you had the guy's word, right? But it wasn't worth the air used to form the words. Argh…


----------



## TheFridge

That stuff kinda pisses me off.


----------



## Ironman132

Looking for a part.



























Any help out there?


----------



## CL810

See post #1242 by Tim.


----------



## Ironman132

> See post #1242 by Tim.
> 
> - CL810


Thanks, CL 810. Tim helped me on another part but did not have this one.


----------



## warrenkicker

Mine had flat-sided screws and not the knurled ones like you are showing. The thread pitch does not match the current sizes.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm having a problem with a Goodell Mfg Allsteel mitre box. My cuts are off top to bottom by about a 1/32". This piece is 5 1/8" square.









Vertical cuts (top to bottom) are the problem









Horizontally its perfect









So I'm assuming that the uprights are the problem since the angle formed by the bed and the uprights is off slightly. The issue is exaggerated because of the stock size,but it is bugging the hell out of me. Any ideas


----------



## CL810

Don't have a Goodell, but on my Stanley 246, underneath where the uprights screw in is an adjustment screw for just this problem. If you loosen one, tighten the other.


----------



## ToddJB

Or your sacrificial board isn't coplaner on top and bottom.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, GP doesn't have those. I may have to shim the posts with some brass stock.

Todd, no sacrificial board. I have a grooved piece in the saw channel to protect the teeth. GP and Millers Falls use a corrugated base so the stock doesn't slip.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm sure you have a Stanley laying around we can troubleshoot.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin, does the saw track straight through a 5" cut when it's not in the box?


----------



## theoldfart

Todd, as a matter of fact I might

Smithy, didn't think to check that. I'll try that tomorrow. Thanks


----------



## johnstoneb

Kevind
The 74 I just cleaned up does the same thing. I thought my might have something bent as the upright on the pivot arm had been welded everything fit tight and seemed to be true. I haven't pursued it because the 2246 cuts square and I kind of put it aside for some other projects. Keep us informed on what you find.


----------



## theoldfart

While trying to figure my problem above I was just going to switch out the box for another one I bought last summer. For some reason the saw wouldn't fit, turns out it is the largest Goodell box! I had no idea. Both boxes appear the same except for the posts and their receivers.









Old box model 1285









New box model 1306









So now the hunt is on for a 6" x 30" back saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Found the issue with the vertical cut. I had a sacrificial strip to protect the saw from hitting the metal trough. You can see it in the old box picture. Damn thing was a few thou high, not enough to be noticeable on small cuts. I also changed saws to a Diston beast.









This thing has a pound or so of weight on the Simonds, saws much more quickly.


----------



## CL810

Glad that got resolved and that Disston IS a beast!


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## theoldfart

I picked it up about two years ago for something like $2 -$5. I should have grabbed the broken Langdon mitre box as well but just didn't think.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A sacrificial strip? Kevin! You're supposed to adjust the stops to keep the saw from bottoming out! Strips are cheating!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, I did both. I'm paranoid OCD ADHD anal retentive etc etc


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, my… ;-) Nevermind then.

EDIT: And you paid the price, didn't you? (couldn't resist)


----------



## planepassion

TOF, that IS a beast of a saw. Though it must still irk you to have overpaid for it


----------



## theoldfart

Brad, maybe I should have negotiated it down? More to the point, maybe they should have paid me to take it off their hands!


----------



## theoldfart

> EDIT: And you paid the price, didn t you? (couldn t resist)
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Smity I am and always will be my own worst enemy!


----------



## planepassion

TOF, by contrast, I paid $40.00 for the 28"x5" miter saw that I use in my Goodell Manufacturing Co. miterbox. But I'm happy with it. Those big saws are nice tools. Did you have to sharpen yours?


----------



## theoldfart

Brad, the Diston still has its factory edge and I don't think it was used very much. It cuts like a dream. The Simonds was sharpened by a local guy and I don't think he understood the subtleties of mitre saws. I'm going to send it out to Summerfi when gets back to a normal schedule.

Nice cut now


----------



## JethroBodean

Ok I seem to have an addiction to these turn of the century miter boxes. I'm new to LimberJock, so let me tell you a bit about my problem. About 15 years ago,my father gave me, what I now know to be a Goodell-Pratt, that was owned by an uncle of mine. But it never really cut true for me, so it just sat on a shelf. Fast forward to 3 years ago and I picked another one for $15.00 in Mitchell Oregon (for parts). It was only after I got it home that I started to learn important differences, i.e. height of saw blades.

As of this summer I now have 6 Goodell boxes (each one different) and one Stanley. I do not call what I do to these tools restoring, it's more refurbishing. I want them to look nice, work well and be free of rust. When possible, I attempt to recreate any missing parts. The thing I love most about old tools is any stories about the previous owners. I especially treasure any tool that came through a relative.

So last year I bought a Stanley 358 from 'Ron', off of Craigslist, from a nearby farming community. $50.00 with the saw. The story goes that the Stanley was owned by a neighboring farmer who bought it new. Twenty five years ago the farmer gave it to Ron along with several other woodworking tools. Ron never really used it, so it spent the last 25 years sitting on the dirt floor of one of his outbuildings.

I'd like to show you a few of my before and after shots. Sadly I did not think to take shots during the rehab. The following few shots will show you what it looked like when I bought it. I thought it was simply beautiful.




























I hadn't ever really tried to clean up an old tool like this before. I doubt I would do it exactly the same way next time. But nonetheless I am quite pleased with my results.



























It did turn out to have a piece broken off the front of the swing arm that wasn't found until I started cleaning things up. I was a bit of a disappointment, but I does not really affect the usability.



















Now to finish off the story, Ron got a hold of me about 3 months after selling the box. He said he found another saw way in the back of his outbuilding that he was sure came with the box when he got. He told he it was really rough, but mine for the taking if I wanted it. It turned out to be a Simmons, but I don't think it could have been treated much worse. Here is what it looked like, I will leave the after pictures to another post.




































BTW I will always be looking for advise from all of you.
Jeff


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, Jeff, you've done a great service to that mitrebox in refurb. Really outstanding! Sorry to see it's broken, but that's just part of it's history. That, and someday you'll come across a box that's really to far gone and a salvage operation will make sense.

Thanks for the pics and post!


----------



## JethroBodean

> Found the issue with the vertical cut. I had a sacrificial strip to protect the saw from hitting the metal trough. You can see it in the old box picture. Damn thing was a few thou high…
> 
> - theoldfart


OK I just may be stating common knowledge here, but you shouldn't need a '*sacrificial strip to protect the saw from hitting the metal trough*'. My understanding is that the 'saw stop' on the side of the saw guides (assuming that they are still there) are to be adjusted to prevent the saw's teeth from encountering the 'Gib'.









BTW: Any terminology that I use (like Gib) with these boxes, very likely has come from a Millers Falls pamphlet I found at wkFineTools.com.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Yeah, Kevin. What he said!


----------



## JethroBodean

Sorry I missed that you two had already had this dance.


----------



## theoldfart

Sheesh, everybody's an expert now. At the risk of repeating myself ( ahem Smitty) it just a cya thing. My stops are set but having a sacrificial piece doesn't hurt ( most of the time SMITTY!). It has since been planed down for clearance.

now back to the shop…..........


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Lawl! Just giggin' ya, Buddy! Jethro, we're good. I'm fortunate to have met so fine a gentleman as Mr. Old Fart, and have the utmost respect for him personally and as a worker of wood.


----------



## theoldfart

^ Wow, thank you. And Jethro THIS^ guy is a veritable fountain of woodworking lore covering both tailed and tailless tools.


----------



## JethroBodean

You guys have been great (but I am wondering if you two need a private forum). My knowledge is limited and newly minted, feel free to knock me down and educate me properly. I promise I'll have more questions than answers.

For instance, I've notice several GP and MF boxes that are missing the rear elevator that holds the rear saw guide in the raised position. I've seen this way too often to be a coincidence. Is this something either of you have noticed too? Any thoughts as to the reason?

I only guessing, but I have to believe it was a time saving measure by the craftsmen, not having to forcibly pop the rear saw guide. As I say, just a guess. But I'm hoping somebody 'knows'.


----------



## theoldfart

JB ( easier than Jethro ), the rear saw support on my GP 1285 does not release well, the 1306 works quite well. I haven't seen too many mitre boxes in the wild so I can't opine wether this is a trend. Hope this helps.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

(Had to look up 'Elevator' but guessed right.)

I've not seen as many Langdon-based boxes as some own, but I've not noted any that were missing the elevators. Holding is typically weak (are they adjustable?) but they're intact.


----------



## theoldfart

I think the tiny screw may adjust the tension, not really sure.


----------



## DanKrager

There are a lot of missing screws and faulty elevators here.

The worst part of all this is that my elevators don't go all the way up because so many screws are loose and the marbles (bearings) are gone.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Maybe so Dan but we old types adapt and carry on,


----------



## JethroBodean

I finished off my last post (which was my first) with what I hope was a tease about a Simmons Saw for my Stanley 358. 'Ron' had sold me the Stanley with a saw, but later found another saw in his outbuilding. As best as he could remember, the thing had been sitting in there abandoned for 25 years or so. Based on the condition, it must have spent the entire 25 years on the dirt floor. The blade seemed to be more a solid mass of rust and the Tote was heavily rotted on one side.




































Obviously nobody in their right mind would even consider doing something with this tool. Put it in the junk pile and maybe down the road I could somehow make use of the steel.

As it turns out I'm not in my right mind. Evapo-rust on the blade then a lot of wet/dry sanding (220 through 1500). Clearly it is still pitted, but amazingly enough when the rust was gone I had a very visible engraving. 









Now for the Tote, I went in search of hardwood at a full 1" thick. When I went to Rockler's, there the guy suggested that I didn't need to make a new handle. He said there was this stuff that you could put onto rotted wood that will stabilize it, I didn't listen to him. I did find that they had odds and ends of some unknown (at least to me) species of hardwood. So now I went about trying to figure out how to make a block of wood into an acceptable tote.


















So once again I have rambled on more than I meant to. Well just this week I've finished with the saw, at least for now. The Tote came out pretty darn good, but I would like to try again and do a few things 
differently. All told, I very proud of this rehab. Nobody will ever mistake it for new, but it moves very cleanly in the Stanley. 



























Now it just needs to be sharpened…leave to me to wait until I have a 28", fine toothed, crosscut saw before I decide to try learning to sharpen a saw myself.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

The elevator doesn't go all the way to the top.I've been accused of that! didn't know they were talking about a miter box!


----------



## Johnny7

Nice rehab on the miter saw, JB

btw-I'm guessing you mean "Simonds" (pronounced SIGH • MUNDS) rather than Simmons.

E.C. Simmons was a hardware chain, whose label was Keen Kutter, but I've never seen a miter saw from them.


----------



## JethroBodean

Yes one M not 2 with a D, nice catch. Or lousy typing. I think I have been combining those 2 companies without ever realizing that they were not the same. And I never knew that was the pronunciation, thx.


----------



## Tim457

Nice save JB. I wouldn't have thought there would be a savable etch under there.


----------



## DonBroussard

Jethro-Nice saves on the miter box and the two saws. That new tote is pretty fine too.


----------



## thirdrail

Jeff
Wow! You are an inspiration.!

Bart


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> E.C. Simmons was a hardware chain, whose label was Keen Kutter, but I ve never seen a miter saw from them.
> 
> - Johnny7


I think someone posted a KK mitrebox on this thread, but it may have been elsewhere. And there's a KK backsaw on the 'bay as of tonight.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-VINTAGE-KEEN-KUTTER-HAND-SAWS-/361205251595?hash=item541982be0b


----------



## thirdrail

in the 1984 reprint of the 1930 E.C. Simmons catalog on page 154 there is a listing for the K528 Keen Kutter Miter Box @ $41.50 complete with Keen Kutter 5×28 back saw. It looks quite a bit like a Marsh Langdon. 
In the same catalog, a Stanley 358 goes for $36.50 with saw.
Bart


----------



## JethroBodean

About 3 years ago, while on a road trip, we stopped in Mitchell Oregon where I picked up a Goodell-Pratt for $15.00 without a saw. To me it looked just like the one I had at home but with a lot more of the extras. Then when I got it home I discover that my 6" saw just wouldn't fit in the 4" saw guides. Funny thing that.
So the hunt began to find a 4" saw, not an easy task. Finally a year later I found a possibility on eBay, but I just couldn't get the seller to tell me the height of the saw. So for $30.00, I gambled and lost; it turn out to be a 5" Disston saw. The tote had been painted blue and there was a split running from one of the screw hole; but otherwise it was in pretty good shape. I just didn't have a box that would fit it.









Then while at an antique store in Silverton Oregon; I came across another Goodell-Pratt that had most of the extras, except for a saw. But it didn't have a price tag. It seemed much "newer" (1930s?) than the two I already had. And I had just purchased and started rehabing a Stanley 358. So clearly, I really had no need for yet another box. Still I had to ask the price; I just about fell on the floor when she said $20.00. Problem was I didn't have $20.00 in my pocket, so I told her I needed to come back at a later time. She hit me back with "Well would $10.00 get it out my door now?", of course it did.










Luck was with me, this new box just happened to need of a 5" saw. (Remember the Blue handled Disston?)










This box moved to the top of my rehab list; after I finished the Stanley. Mostly it was strip down, rust removal and new paint. I decided on Gloss Red for the Bed and Semi-Gloss Black for everything else.


----------



## racerglen

Ah, very nice work and now I know what the mite box is that's been sitting in one of my local stores for months complete with a Stanley saw..now, should I or should I not..they're asking 40..


----------



## johnstoneb

40 is not bad for a box with saw and if it's been there awhile maybe it's not so much if you make an offer.


----------



## JethroBodean

I agree, $40 is a pretty good price. Most eBay sellers need to charge that much just for the shipping.


----------



## Tim457

That's another pretty sweet restore there Jeff. But you definitely should have left the blue paint. Hah.


----------



## Tim457

Glen I'd go check it out carefully. If it has the commonly missing parts it would definitely be worth $40, and like Bruce said you may be able to get it for less.


----------



## JethroBodean

Tim - As I was stripping/sanding off the blue, there was this voice in the back of my mind saying "Please don't let this be a rare and special color that triples the value of the saw." Too late now if it did.
If you look at the last shot of the tote, you can see that I left a bit of the blue in a slight chip out. I started to get it all but decided to leave that one touch to remember the color.


----------



## JethroBodean

Johnny7 - Simmons/Simonds - I have folders on my hard drive based on manufacture's names (Stanley, Millers Falls, Goodell-Pratt) where I put notes, links, pictures,... Well I had a folder for Simmons, but not for Simonds. Sure enough that folder contained files for both companies. I have clearly was just waiting for you educate me. Thx.


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## Johnny7

*Jeff*-

very nice of you to take the time to say thanks-totally unecessary of course, but appreciated.

I was mentored for years by a man whose knowledge of tools (not to mention his accumulation) is impressive.
I am more than eager to pass along anything I know.


----------



## Trakem2

Read somewhere, but cant find the info right now, but when new the miter box actually had a strip of wood in the groove of the gib to protect the saw, kind of like a zero clearance insert. Also alot of good info on Langdon, Millers Falls and Goodell boxes at https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/model-guide


----------



## racerglen

It finally followed me home








Can't find a makers mark anywhere on the box..
only piece I can see missing was the thumbscrew at the back, it'd been replaced by a 1/4-20 machine screw and a wing nut..as I now have thumb screws, tried that shinney bit out..fits but needs a shortening, it's now in it's vinagre bath so it's not so gleaming…










Saw is a Henry n' sons, cast steel warranted stamped in the blued spine, haven't been able to see an etch as yet.









Closing price was 30 dollars.


----------



## Mosquito

Sweet score for $30!


----------



## johnstoneb

$30 with saw that is definitely a score. Hopefully somebody can identify it for you. I don't think it is a Stanley might be MF or Langdon.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sure looks like a MF derivative, maybe an All-Steel. The wood platform is hiding the ends of the platform; there may be clues there if it's a G-P vs. MF. And the wood (I think) is actually covering a metal platform. If it's 'stippled,' more leaning to the MF All-Steel.

Either way, excellent buy for $30. Heck, the saw easily can fetch that price when you're looking for one.

How's the wood attached to the box?


----------



## theoldfart

My vote is Goodell Mfg or Goodell Pratt. It's definitely an All Steel, they didn't use metal nameplates till latter when MF sold them.


----------



## racerglen

sorry for the delay, left town for the weekend and running behind.

The plywood base/whatever, is screwed to an open frame..









Took a couple of test cuts with the saw before supper last night, not sharp/sharp but it tracks true both in rip and crosscut !


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, wow. That's a surprise (open frame).


----------



## racerglen

Well, I'm going to have to take the "new" plywood stuff off in a while to see what's there, but it's held in place (as you can probably see) by shinny #2 Robertson screws, so it's quite a recent addition. This'lll take a while, I'm just finishing off a #3-C, getting close on my 607 roundy rock, nearing a wrap on a 28" Atkins backsaw, a 45, and have one race left in my 2015 drag season with a car that persists in tossing power steering belts (intresting to say the least when doing low/slow speed driving, like in and out of gas stations !)


----------



## JethroBodean

I'm with TOF, this just screams All-Steel, either Goodell Mfg or Goodell-Pratt. Just from personal experience (which is suspect to say the least), every All-Steel box I've seen with a wooden bed has been a Goodell Mfg.

I've heard that the Goodell/Goodell-Pratt All-Steel boxes originally came with a paper label that was adhered to the backside of the of the corrugated back. Although I have never personally seen this in nature. However the manufacturer should be stamped into the side of the top of the Saw Guides.

Just an FYI, but with the Saw Guides; there is a Front and a Rear. All of the boxes I've seen have an 'F' on the front guide. The rear guide has a 'R', if it is marked. Only some of my Rear guides are marked. Those markings are also on the top of the saw guides, but the mark is on the front of the guide as you face the box. Remember the Saw Stop should be on the left side of the saw when the guides are properly installed. In your 2nd shot it appears to me that the rear guide needs to be turned 180.

I'll try to get some pics tonight.


----------



## theoldfart

JB, I think Glens mitre box is an early Goodell. I have two Goodells, both with marked posts and both with grooved plates. The steel bed was a latter innovation I think.


----------



## Johnny7

Glen

A question if you don't mind …
Why do we have a P/S pump on a "drag" car?

As to belt throwing-assuming the pulleys are truly aligned, I suspect the pump is temporarily cutting out or freezing/binding, and the crank pulley is walking the belt off the other pulley


----------



## JethroBodean

Here is a pretty good Goodell Reference page. The first Paragraph on this page describes the paper label that I was talking about. I KNEW I read it somewhere.


----------



## racerglen

.I've been all over the mite box with a high intensity LED light, no makers mark anywhere, not on the posts either and no sign on a paper decal on the back, no F or R on the posts, no Made in USA, nadda anywhere,

JB, figured there might be something not quite right on the post setup, but it does not seem to affect anything ? the threaded part for the thumbscrew and the whatever that projection is are at 90 degrees from each other on the back, but 180 in the front post ???

Oh, it's painted or was at one time, Canadian military type olive drab, but then we've had a base here for over 100 years. 
(got a tad carried away on checking it out, realized I'd grabbed my dad's 6 " Starrett pocket rule to push a wee bit of sawdust out of a guide, thought it was just an oddball mite box with a good ol' Henry saw but you guys have me "slightly" excited LOL..)

( Johnny, it's my street n' strip car, mid 11's in the quarter and tows my travel trailer to and from the track..good thoughts on why it's tossing, thanks ! (started to do it at 6 thou and up, this weekend not even 3 thou as I was pulling onto the highway after a rain out dispite having done just fine at 6 and over Saturday ..)


----------



## Johnny7

mid 11s quarter mile is nothing to sneeze at-nice!


----------



## Mosquito

New acquisition tonight… $85










Another 358, this one slightly newer, and with all its parts (including the thingy Smitty taught me about on the saw to trip the catches)


----------



## JethroBodean

Nice Mos, I still need a thingy for my 358.

Glen, If it's not marked then it's not marked, but I will say that I too had unmarked saw guides…until I cleaned and polished them.









And this shows the 'F'









The next 2 pictures show the back post. First the left side, showing the Saw Stop, which is used to prevent the saw teeth from hitting the bottom of the gib (metal slot). Then the right side, showing the Depth Gauge to control the depth of the cut. The Saw Set and the Depth Gauge are supposed to always be on opposite sides of the saw.


----------



## racerglen

JB, I'll be taking some more looks, appreciate the pictures !

Johnny, did some more thinking after your 1st post, and it's likely the power steering pump is original, that makes it 46 years old with well over 200 thousand miles on it (on third go round on the odometer ) Will be visiting my mechanic today, all the alignments appear good but his thought is the water pump pulley is wrong, we'll see .


----------



## racerglen

HAH ! 
With more thanks Jeff..
1st I found the "F" obviously on the back post, snicker, then, right where the picture showed..

GOODELL MFG CO.
GREENFIELD MASS. USA
Patented Feb 9 1904


----------



## JethroBodean

Glen - You might find it interesting to see the Feb 9 1904 patent document.


----------



## bandit571

Seem to have a 22" long by 4" deep PENN CORP. saw in need of a home…

The Craftsman 22" by 4" already has a home….

The Craftsman 18" by 4" seems to be the Carcass Saw for the shop…..

The Disston ( with two etches) N0. 7 backsaw has been the dovetail saw of the shop…

So…..The Penn Corp saw is an "extra"


----------



## racerglen

That's great Jeff ! always need pictures, answers a couple of points


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats on the successful ID, Glen. It took me longer than you to find those markings on the post of my Goodell box. Good to know what you have 'for sure,' isn't it?


----------



## racerglen

You bet Smitty, all thanks to teamwork, doubt I'd have found the marks in months without Jeff's photo skills .


----------



## planepassion

Yeah, I was clueless of my miterbox's lineage until I polished the posts. The brand name and patent date just jumped out at me.


----------



## theoldfart

I am the same as Brad, didn't pick up on the Goodell Mfg till someone on this thread pointed it out, just don't remember who .


----------



## NinjaAssassin

So, I've finally gotten back to that Stanely 358 I bought so long ago. It and all its parts took a long bath in a giant tub of vinegar. Note: some metal (maybe cast iron?) objects shouldn't be left in vinegar for weeks and weeks and weeks - the metal seems to absorb the vinegar and I guess makes it ultra soft. To the point that a brass bristled brush will remove significant material with only a few passes and hand pressure. I lost a corrugated #4 sole this way. Anyway, I've been able to get most everything off of the main frame of the box except for the swing arm. Can anyone tell me how to get that big slot bolt out? I can't get it to turn at all.


----------



## warrenkicker

I am guessing some will recommend different fluids to loosen the threads or putting heat on it to break the screw loose. When I took mine apart I used a huge screwdriver with a square shank. On the shank I could use a crescent wrench to gain torque. The closer to wrench is to the screw to better it is for the screwdriver.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks warren. Just went and gave that a shot (put the wrench down low near the head of the driver). The tip of the screwdriver is twisted now. It's possible that screwdriver is terrible.


----------



## DanKrager

Ninja, many times recommended the 50/50 mix automatic transmission fluid and acetone. It's almost unbelievable what that combo will do overnight. It is a mixture, not a solution, so it will separate if left alone for awhile, so shake it up good before using. I've broken many a screw (bolt) using wrench leverage on a driver, so be very careful with that. After an over night soak in ACE/ATF, it seems to help a lot to tap on the driver (firmly but not hard!) without turning it. When you do attempt to turn it, turn it both directions alternately. It just might be left hand threads, but the alternate turning force combined with the tapping will eventually get it. Just be very patient.
DanK


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks for bringing that up again, Dan. I vaguely remembered someone mentioning an ATF + ??? mixture but I didn't remember where or who it was. I've got both on hand so I'll give that a shot tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## canadianchips

Found this yesterday…....$1 at Habitat Restore in Chatham Ontario.
A little spit polish.
A little sharpening.
Viola !


----------



## thirdrail

I've never tried the acetone/ auto tranny fluid mixture and will be interested in you it works for you one this. I am always scared of too much force on anything cast iron. Kroil has never let me down and a spray can will last you for a very long time. With all these things time helps, even if that turns into being three days or so. Periodic tapping with a brass or other non marking hammer helps too.

Bart


----------



## DanKrager

I was fascinated by a "review" sponsored by one of the chemical companies promoting it's penetrating oil product. The reviewer compared the competing products and sort of rated them, but what captured my attention for a good laugh was the honest statement in fine print at the bottom of the review, almost missed it. It added a lot of credence to the honesty of the review…

"A 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic transmission fluid is not less than 10x better than any of these products"

I don't know how he got away with it, and I wish I had bookmarked it so I could find it again. I just know from experience that it works far better than any commercial product I've been able to try. A three day effort to remove the 48" diameter blade and 60" x 3" shaft from a ditcher machine was futile until we put this mixture on it overnight. The shaft just about fell out.

Bart is right on about the tapping. 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

The ATF/ACT in a 50/50 mix was an eye openning experience for me recently. I had a completely frozen hollow auger and it freed up in less than 24 hrs. Also had a frozen screw on a side rabett plane that freed up in less than a day. Try it you'll like it!


----------



## derekcohen

I have just completed a rebuild of a MF #15 1/2 as well as building a saw for it …



















The full details are on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/MFMitreboxRebuild.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Derek, thanks for posting. I recently acquired one, and will also be needing to make a saw and depth stops for it. Do you have any further details on making the depth stops? (I don't have either one so don't have much to go on)


----------



## derekcohen

Hi Mosquito

The depth stop is simply a rectangle of brass plate, tapped for a bolt. The bolt tightens it against the steel guide. It limits the movement of the head ..










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## upchuck

> Ninja, many times recommended the 50/50 mix automatic transmission fluid and acetone. It s almost unbelievable what that combo will do overnight.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Dan
Please don't get frustrated or think that your frequent recommendation of the 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone is falling on deaf ears. We are people. And I believe that people learn by repetition. Some of us require more repetitions than others. We, like rusted bolts, get stuck with what we've used before that half-way worked. Or we want to use up that half bottle of special juice for which we paid dearly. Or a new Lumberjack that is facing their first stuck screw. 
Today I've added some ATF to an empty bottle. The bottle is half full (or half empty) and the next time I have some acetone I fill it the rest of the way and give it a try. Don't count me as a convert yet but everything else I've tried has been less than satisfactory and I'm always looking for an easier and cheaper way to get a job done.
Thanks,
chuck


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Derek, makes sense. I'll have to make the whole guide assembly too, but that'll be a little while down the road at this point, I think.


----------



## DanKrager

Chuck, After re-reading I guess I did sound frustrated. Not at anyone here, and especially not for asking questions. It sure wasn't intended that way, and I apologize.

If I'm frustrated about anything, there is SO much useful information on this site from people with experience, but there is no way to find it. The search thingy is sort of pitiful, and not readily available from everywhere. It seems to be limited to tags which the engine uses to find stuff, not searching the entire text, a problem I can't solve.

DanK


----------



## CL810

'Tis a thing of beauty…....



> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


----------



## Tim457

> The search thingy is sort of pitiful, and not readily available from everywhere. It seems to be limited to tags which the engine uses to find stuff, not searching the entire text, a problem I can t solve.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Dan try searching google instead and add site:lumberjocks.com after anything you're searching for. For example go to google and type:
chisel sharpening site:lumberjocks.com
for results about chisel sharpening. It's not perfect but much better than LJ's search. You can do that site: trick with any website, supertool, etc.

But I agree the gems in LJ are hard to find. I try to copy and paste into a text file anything I want to save and remember.

That is fantastic Derek.


----------



## loneturtle

How accurate is it? I use a dreadful plastic one that gives approximate mitres that have to be trued on the shooting board. I'm okay with this as shooting takes a few seconds. I do love old hand tools but space is also a premium in my little 8 foot by 12 foot shed. If all the angles are 100% spot on (not all angles can be catered for on a shooting board without a degree of preparation), it earns its space.


----------



## loneturtle

Derek, the saw handle gave me goosebumps. It is, indeed, a thing of exquisite beauty!


----------



## upchuck

> Thanks for bringing that up again, Dan. I vaguely remembered someone mentioning an ATF + ??? mixture but I didn t remember where or who it was. I ve got both on hand so I ll give that a shot tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> - NinjaAssassin


Dan-
No apology needed from my end. I was with Ninja. I remembered the "ATF +


> ?" but the


? eluded me until your #1422 post and I added the ATF to a jar with a note to fill it up with acetone. I agree that the search feature sucks on this site. But *if* I can remember to use the method others have suggested above then that is one less frustration in my life.
chuck


----------



## derekcohen

> How accurate is it? I use a dreadful plastic one that gives approximate mitres that have to be trued on the shooting board. I m okay with this as shooting takes a few seconds. I do love old hand tools but space is also a premium in my little 8 foot by 12 foot shed. If all the angles are 100% spot on (not all angles can be catered for on a shooting board without a degree of preparation), it earns its space.
> 
> - Ron Tocknell


Ron, if you are referring to the MF #115 1/2 mitre box, it is pretty accurate. Actually, so is my MF 74C. I spend time dialling them in. For example, you need to check the set of the saw in case it causes the blade to wander, as you would with any saw. The nylon guides I added provide a higher level of precision.

In any event, as close as one gets, nothing you build is perfectly square, so there will always be a smidgeon (hopefully not more) to plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Trakem2

Check out posts #633 and #635 for info on freeing rusted parts. Have used the ATF/ Marvel Mystery Oil with good results.


----------



## donwilwol

anyone ever seen one like this? http://timetestedtools.forumchitchat.com/post/craftsman-miter-box-7608993?trail=#1


----------



## theoldfart

Nope, new one on me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow! Not seen one before, but I love it!


----------



## warrenkicker

Interesting design. It does shorten the saw stroke as you move away from a 90 degree cut as the posts will separate. The box will hold the same size board at any angle though. Must have not worked as hoped or more of us would have seen it before.


----------



## CL810

NOS 346A


----------



## theoldfart

That'll get Smittys heart racing


----------



## CL810

I've been trying to come up with reasons I need it, but…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's a beauty, but for collectors. ;-)


----------



## CB_Cohick

Anybody got info on a Craftsman 88136303? I got this one from Craigslist for $30. All the parts are there and it works.









I will clean it up and see if I can find somebody to sharpen the saw. I feel like I came out ok. It may not be the miter box of my dreams, but it is an upgrade from this.


----------



## dbray45

I have a Millers Fall/Langdon with a Craftsman logo on it, paid $15.00


----------



## bandit571

Yard sale find last year..









Craftsman 22"......$5 Was a bit rusty when found…









Maybe..


----------



## CB_Cohick

Is that a before and after, Bandit? Looks to be different from the one I got.


----------



## CB_Cohick

I found a manual that looks like my saw. It has some information on adjustment, but is mainly a parts list. More good news is that it looks like Sears still has a few replacement parts if needed. I'm still curious to learn when this saw was made.


----------



## bandit571

The rusty one is the before. Have since added all the rubber "O" rings on it.

Mine might be a bit newer than yours….

Also have a 22" Penn Corp. saw that fits. It does have the OEM Craftsman 22" saw.

saw has a knack of photo-bombing a lot of the shop pictures, though….


----------



## CB_Cohick

> I will clean it up and see if I can find somebody to sharpen the saw.
> 
> - CB_Cohick


Apparently this is a lost art. I guess I will acquire tools and learn to sharpen my saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

CB, I have a couple of very similar Craftsman boxes at present, both came with a saw. Boxes and saws are all hanging on the wall. Not because they've done anything wrong, but because I like the Goodell Mfg and Stanley boxes better.

Sharpening can be done, and if you're set on learning it, look up Brit's video here on LJs. The best lesson you can find anywhere, I believe, and by a gent that incredibly good at sharpening / saw restoration. Check it out. And don't hesitate to jump in re: sharpening. While I suck at it, none of my dull saws got worse through my sharpening efforts thusfar. I just haven't dedicated time to learning the craft.

Stef is a LJ and sharpens, so does Bob Summerfield, if you want to send yours out for a top-notch sharpening that'll last years.


----------



## theoldfart

Bob mentioned he was going to research proper mitre saw sharpening. I have an old Diston that has had little use. It leaves an almost glass smooth cut, none of my other mitre saws can match it. It has to be the set I think.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Thanks for the encouragement Smitty. I checked Paul Sellers and a couple other folks regarding saw sharpening, and dove in headfirst! It's not great, but it's better than it was. I will doink around with it some more, and then maybe hit up Bob to see what his schedule/interest level is like.


----------



## theoldfart

I picked up an interesting mitre box this morning. It had a hint of Stanley but much older than others I've seen.









The Diston 16" No 4 dates to 1896 to 1917 and even has a trace of the sticker on the handle









Etch is from Hamacher Schlemmler









Spent a while trolling the inter web and couldn't find anything then I went back on this thread and the answer came from DocBailey "#291 posted 05-31-2013 06:47 PM" It is in fact a very early Stanley.


----------



## duckmilk

That etch is fantastic Kev. Congrats on the find.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wonder if it's 'just as good' as the merchandise H-S sells today? As in, all that stuff in their magazines, on airplanes?

Seriously, like Duck says, a very cool box, Congrats! And with the variety of boxes you have now, which is your favorite and why?


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, it is well built. All cast and has a clever system for leveling the sacrificial board. As far as my favorite if is still my Goodell Mfg all steel. Works every time, very accurate. We'll see how the most recent one works out once I get it all back together.


----------



## JethroBodean

Ok my fellow mitre box crazies; I'm wondering what secrets and techniques you may have with regards to removing and reinstalling the spines of the back-saws? Thus far my techniques have involved clamping the blade and then delivering crushing blows with a hammer to a block of hardwood held tightly against the blade and edge of the spine for removal. And then love taps with a hard rubber mallet for the reinstall.


----------



## theoldfart

that's what I have done and so far no mishaps.


----------



## DLK

I think Jethro you have covered all the known methods.


----------



## summerfi

I use a similar method, except that I use a block of hardwood with a saw slot in it so that I'm hitting on both sides of the spine at the same time.

To reinstall, place the spine upside down on a solid surface. A block of wood with a slot in it helps to hold the spine upright. Then starting at the toe end, place a corner of the blade on/in the slot in the spine and, using a piece of soft wood as a "club" (a pine 2×2 works well), tap on the teeth of the blade to get it started in the spine. Continue working your way down to the heel end.

Backsaw spines are often curved after decades of use. To straighten them, I use shims in a wood vise to slightly overbend them in the right direction. Then they spring back to straight.


----------



## theoldfart

I like that Bob, I've got two to be cleaned up so I will be trying it soon. Thanks


----------



## donwilwol

I find my leg vise closed up works fine. yes I tend to abuse my bench, but its tough, it can take it. 100 years from now that will be patina.


----------



## Tim457

I used the same method as Bob. Pounding away on just one side of the saw didn't seem like a good idea. I did find I had to place a clamp lightly over the scrap piece with the saw kerf in it otherwise it would split.


----------



## summerfi

^ Ditto on the clamp. That's what I do as well.


----------



## JoeLyddon

I reported *THIS* as Spam…


----------



## theoldfart

Just won a Diston backsaw on the bay. Badged for Langdon Mitre Box but with a Northampton address! Split nut, it's an original, psyched.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kevin - So Jealous!

Ever since I finished up the rehab of my Stanley 358, I have been wanting one of the Stanley Thingamajigs (the Trigger) that clamps to the spine of the saw.

Yesterday I picked one up from 'Ed', off Craigslist, for $10; which seemed like a great price to me…










...especially when I mention that the Thingamajigs brought along a few of its friends to sweeten the deal.


----------



## theoldfart

Good haul, all for $10?


> ?


----------



## donwilwol

> Just won a Diston backsaw on the bay. Badged for Langdon Mitre Box but with a Northampton address! Split nut, it's an original, psyched.
> 
> - theoldfart


Hope the seller sends it to the right guy!


----------



## theoldfart

No worries, it'll(they!) get here soon. Think i'm up to nine mitre saws now, but I can quit any time I want to, I can.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kevin - I think I have you for the moment. After yesterday's purchase, I'm at 8 GP and 2 Stanley boxes, each with a saw, plus 3 'spare' saws. Yeah, I too can quit anytime, that's my story and I'm sticking with it!

This morning at church one of the older members pulled me aside and said he heard me talking about old miter boxes. He told me he had one that he'd like to give me…once he remembered where he'd put it. I'm not going to hold my breath, but I 'might' have yet another one on the hook.

As for yesterday's Stanley from Ed; he told me he'd been listing it for quite a while and kept lowering the price. I first noticed it a few month's ago at $20.00 but didn't bite. Then several weeks ago I noticed he had it for $10.00, but still I didn't bite. I mean I had 9 boxes already, who the heck needs more than 9! Then on Friday night I noticed that the very blurry blob in one shot was probably a 'Trigger' and then I simply could not resist. I tried to not buy it, I really did.


----------



## theoldfart

Best of luck with that Jeff.

Right now what I have is the first Stanley Justus Traut patent mitre box, the saw that came with it does not appear to be the original. The saw I just bought is from the first Langdon Mitre Box patented by Leander Langdon and made in my home town of Northampton, MA. I'm still hunting for the box itself. After that I have early Goodall Pratt Allsteel in the two largest sizes ( Don W is sending me a 6" saw as we speak right now). There are also a mid date Stanley 244, and an Ulmia knockoff. Also on he wish list is a Millers Falls 15 1/2.

Oh yea and a Gem Folding mitre box


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Inventory time? Please, I'd rather not count saws or mitreboxes at the moment. Need to build more, acquire less… I am being more selective in what I bring home, I think, that I used to be. But then I'm still consumed with painting the house at the moment. Snow will fly soon, getting as much done this fall as possible, then will resume in the spring. I don't think at this point there's a mitrebox I'm looking to add; one would have to fall out of the sky and be quite unusual to justify the shelf space it'd consume (they do not store easily).


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty my last two purchases qualify "be quite unusual". All i wanted was a small box and the Traut fell out of the sky at a flea mkt for $25 and included the Hammacher Schlemmer saw. Pretty much the same for the Langdon Diston . I will probably sell/trade the newer Diston, I've done nothing with it.

The saw represents a lot of local history, if any one wants to know I'll put a somewhat longwinded separate posting on later.


----------



## JethroBodean

TOF - I'd love to see a 'longwinded' posting of your local history. Being out in Oregon, we are bit far away for the 'local' manufacturers of the American miter box.

BTW: It would appear that like the length of the fish in a fisher's tale, my count of boxes increases with the telling. I have to confess, after just couning, that I only have 6 GP, not the 8 stated earlier. Thus my total drops to 8, giving the win to the old fart. Plus Kevin's variety easily tops mine.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, I'll write something up in the next few days. Here is a good place to look at Millers Falls, Goodell Pratt, Goodell Mfg, and Langdon.

Look at the bottom of the page and you'll see tabs for Langdon and Goodell. They do not go into detail about the 1874 flood, I have other books on that.

Edit: posted pics of the saw over in the saw thread


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin, you've been pulling in very unique (quality) tools that I've not be able to pass up! And me too, I'd love to read the history!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, incredible luck on my part but also reading yours and other folks posting. I don't know if you remember but back in May DocBailey played stump-the-chumps with you and I about that Traut patent box. That's how I knew about it. You have also posted cool things( spell checker wants to say thongs) about obscure planes that have been extremely informative ( not to mention bringing that 444 to our meet up last year). That's how I have expanded my knowledge. So i guess it's actually your fault ( or least that's what I tell my wife theses days )


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okayfine.  Yep, Doc is a great resource, but also one that seems to have laid off LJs for awhile now.


----------



## russde

I bought this from a carpenter when we were living in Boston (I don't miss the weather, but they sure have WAY more cool old tools up there) and I've taken to using it a bit more as I hate dragging out my 10 miter saw for a simple cut or two.
Where can I get more info on the model number and what parts it might be missing? I'll take more pictures tomorrow and make a more concerted effort to read through the thread.
Thanks,
Russ


----------



## donwilwol

@russde. http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/25753


----------



## onoitsmatt

I recently picked up this Millers Falls 74 at an estate sale. I don't know much about miter boxes, but had started reading this thread and was keeping an eye out for one when I've been out and about rust hunting. This one came with a very nice (has the 1896 to 1917 medallion) 16" Disston Tenon saw that they thought went with it, but clearly didn't. This does have a weld on the bottom, but otherwise seems in pretty good shape.




























I've done a fair bit of reading and still have no idea what's what on these. But it seems like I got a good one based on what I can find out. Any idea how old this is? Latest patent date is 1909 and says it is from Millers Falls, Mass. I've read they moved their factory to Greenfield, MA in 1931, so I assume it dates from sometime in between? Any way to narrow it down further?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Matt - good looking MF there, even with the repair (that looks to be a fine job all by itself). I'm not very knowledgeable when in comes to MF in general, but there are a couple good sites out on the interwebz that has history to them. Related note, that 16" saw sounds interesting! Is the blade actually 16" long? That's a good sized saw that isn't seen (by me, anyway) very often. Good size for a Stanley #150, for example. So you'll want to hold onto that saw in case you slide further down the slope…


----------



## onoitsmatt

Thanks Smitty. Yes, the saw is very nice. I actually just came in from sharpening it. I plan to use it as a tenon saw, rather than a miter saw. It doesn't show any signs of having been used as a miter saw in the past. It definitely doesn't fit in this miter box.


----------



## theoldfart

Matt look here

And here


----------



## JethroBodean

I have a bit of a mystery here, and I am hoping to lean on the knowledge of the group for answers. I bought this box in Mitchell Oregon several years ago. I bought it because it appeared to be a close match to a box once own by an uncle that I was wanting to rehab. It seemed to have all of the extras, except the saw and the length gauge. However comparing this box to my Uncle's old box taught me the difference between boxes designed for 6" and 4" saws. 









But somehow, the more I looked at the box, the more something felt wrong. While I am positive this is a 'Goodell Mfg' box, the saw guides don't seem right. There are several things that are different from what I am used to seeing on Goodell guides. To me it appears that somewhere back in time the guides for a different box from a different manufacturer got paired up with this box.

1) The top of the guides are a completely round cylinder, where Goodell guide's tops have flat sides that will parallel the saw blade.









2) The Saw Sets on the side of the Guide Tops seem to be made of a punched out metal.









3) Near the bottom of the guides there is a 'nick' rather than a groove all the way around. And on top of that, the 'nicks' do not even line up with the elevators (spring loaded catches), so these guides never stay up.









4) The walls of the guides are very thin by comparison.
5) These guides are ever so slightly wobbly in the posts.

So does anybody recognize the Saw Guides? 
And does anybody happen have any 'extra' Goodell Saw Guides for a 4" saw that are in need of a new home?

Thx - Jeff


----------



## Tim457

The guides are Millers falls Langdon style but the box looks like a Goodell, maybe an all steel. Maybe that's why they don't fit right.

See this Miller's Falls Langdon for example:
https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/gallery/millers-falls/langdon/74

Link has some Goodell info too.


----------



## JethroBodean

Thx Tim - I was suspecting that the guides were Langdon. But I've never actually seen a Langdon in the wild, so I didn't know how the bottom of those guides normally looked like. There in no doubt in my mind that the box itself is a Goodell All-Steel. And an older one (before 1922) most likely due to the flat bottomed tool slots.


----------



## theoldfart

This is the mitre box of my dreams. I'm pretty sure the saw is original as well. Wish my allowance was bigger!


----------



## summerfi

Kevin, if that's really the miter box of your dreams, then you need to buy it. Surely you have enough stuff laying around your shop you could part with to pay for a tool that means a lot to you. Dream tools don't come around every day.


----------



## theoldfart

Guess I do, anyone want to buy a #57 core box plane in outstanding shape? sigh


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I might know somebody…


----------



## theoldfart

hee hee see Now we wait!


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty asked me a little while ago which mitre box I liked the most. It is the Goodall All Steel box with a 28×5 saw.

This is a piece of 8/4 10 1/4" cherry. The cut is a stopped cut using the depth control stops.



























I have the larger box as well and I would have preferred to use it here but I'm still chasing a 30"x6" mitre saw. The 28" saw was a bit short, a few more inches on the stroke would have been useful.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Completely sweet!


----------



## theoldfart

Damn spell check. Goodell not Goodall


----------



## Tim457

That's pretty sweet, Kevin. Who needs a rabbet plane? Split the waste off with a chisel if you gots the guts. 

Does your larger box take wider boards than 10-1/4"? And what model/brand is it?


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, the larger box is also a Goodell Mfg All Steel. Not sure about the width, I'll check.

I thought about splitting with a chisel but no guts! Used a 14" tenon saw that Bob(Summerfi) made for me. Finished up with a 140 skew.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, same width capability, just taller posts


----------



## bandit571

You all are giving mine a "Complex"..









As it is now hiding behind the bandsaw….Craftsman 20×4…I think ( $5 mitrebox)


----------



## planepassion

TOF, thanks for posting pics of your Goodell box in use. I see that you have all the sexy accessories too!

Good luck on tracking down a saw. I think that if you're serious about getting one you'll want to contact some specialists. That means reaching out to tool dealers like Joshua Clark. Or you could do what I did and contact Mike Stemple. He is a saw collector extraordinaire. And he was willing to part with a 28" x 5" saw for my Goodell Manufacturing miterbox. It's etching traces its heritage to a Miller's Falls miterbox, but the saw is of such good quality that I don't care.

Although, if anyone has a line on a Disston 28" x 5" mitersaw with the etching, Made Expressly for Goodell Manufacturing Co" I would be a player.


----------



## theoldfart

Brad, let me look at what I have for 28×5's. All of mine, I think, are etched for Goodell Pratt/Mfg.

Also don't rule out Simonds or Jackson.

Edit. Four 28×5 saws









The top two saws are etched for Goodell Pratt. The top is a Diston( which by the way weighs almost twice the Simonds)and the next is a Simonds. 
The next two are a Simonds(can't find an etch) and a WS that I think is a Simonds and the spine is stamped Langdon Mitre Box, Millers Falls.


----------



## DLK

I may have a 28×4 but will have to look when I get home.


----------



## CL810

Nice pics Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Andy. Hopefully adding something special next week. Stay tuned!


----------



## Tim457

> Tim, same width capability, just taller posts
> - theoldfart


Thanks for checking. I'd never heard of one with wider stock capacity, but I was hoping.



> Thanks Andy. Hopefully adding something special next week. Stay tuned!
> - theoldfart


Sounds fun.


----------



## racerglen

Sometimes things come back to haunt you..



























In 2003 I took on the job of upgrading the tool collection for our eighth mile drag strip, this came at auction, can't remember how much. The saw is a Canadian Disston, 14 inches, about 14 tpi As we had been broken into many times everything got a coat of yellow paint. As we were putting the track to bed this winter I spotted it under a shelf way in a corner and ended up bringing it home. Started to scrape some paint then decided that was too much work for the cast aluminum thing..So off to my friend's transmission shop and a trip through the industrial parts washer (think 8' tall by 4 by 4, 160 degrees and 60 psi)


















Think that's it for the box but still trying to get who knows how many layers of gloss polly of the saw handle, blade is pretty good, sharp, and there is an etch .


----------



## theoldfart

That yellow, it hurts my eyes. Take it away. Blue is good. A big improvement Glen, should serve you well.


----------



## racerglen

Oh yah, the yellow was BRIGHT wasn't it.. the blue's the original color, no idea on who made it, not even a "made in.." anywhere. As I recall it worked pretty good.. Now, that's 7 boxes, three Stanleys, an All Steel..and..oh, poo, another collection….


----------



## theoldfart

Not collection. Around here we say versitile accumulation!


----------



## racerglen

Oh…sorry, my fox pas is showing AGAIN..


----------



## DLK

"faux pas" or did the joke go over my head?


----------



## DLK

> "faux pas" or did the joke go over my head?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Sorry I am in editor mode in the moment.


----------



## theoldfart

^yup, it were fox paws no doubt.

OR messy buckets


----------



## racerglen

Yup, Mr Editor, Sir..being goofy…sorry…;-)


----------



## DLK

> Yup, Mr Editor, Sir..being goofy…sorry…;-)
> 
> - racerglen


No worries. It seems these days whenever I touch a key board I seem to send out the most bizarre mistakes.


----------



## racerglen

Know what you mean Don..I was gifted with a wireless keyboard with my latest computer..among other things I find the lack of that little light to indicate cap lock is on to be a P.I.T.A…


----------



## DLK

> Know what you mean Don..I was gifted with a wireless keyboard with my latest computer..among other things I find the lack of that little light to indicate cap lock is on to be a P.I.T.A…
> 
> - racerglen


FYI, when I said I was in editor mode it was because I was taking a break from reading a masters thesis that its to be defended on Monday. So it was nothing personnel. I was just in "that mode". Ordinarily I forgive typo mistakes
because I am just as guilty.


----------



## theoldfart

So, what's a complete Stanley 358 worth? Complete includes trees, rods, TRIP! and rusty saw. I will pick it up if anyone is interested as long as it is still available.


----------



## Mosquito

No idea Kevin, but I know what I paid for mine lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Complete like that? $100 is not unreasonable. But I've already got one, you see? (French Knight Voice…)


----------



## theoldfart

The guy's asking $80. I don't think I need another box, was thinking more in terms of our friends in rust-impared locations!


----------



## Mosquito

$80 is what I paid for mine, and I felt like it was a great deal (at least for my area). They typically seem to be $125-$150 around here


----------



## CL810

I think $80 is a great price.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Ditto.


----------



## DLK

Remember shipping a miterbox to the rust-deficient will add $25 to $30 to the cost. So can you sell it for $110?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I wasn't going to get it unless someone wanted it. Folks have posted comments about not finding these things in their area, just trying to help out, no profit motive.

As for new mitre boxes just won one on the 'Bay.

The first Langdon Box by Leander Langdon, made in Northampton circa 1871-74. 









It came with a Jackson 20" split nut back saw









It'll be here next week, more pics to follow


----------



## summerfi

Congrats Kevin. I'm tickled you got it.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm gonna name the mitre box Smitty and the saw Bob!


----------



## summerfi

That would be an honor. I think Smitty and Bob will work well together.


----------



## theoldfart

Yep, thought so. Good people to my mind!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, congrats Kevin! Glad it all worked to plan!


----------



## JethroBodean

Kevin - That is one 'purdy' miter box. As with all ladies, treat her nice.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, my intentions are honorable sir!


----------



## DonBroussard

Kevin-Nice find on the Langdon Mitre Box. I have one as well but mine has a broken foot.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, pretty nice mitre box. I should have my new one on Monday.


----------



## theoldfart

Just got home and guess what.









All original including I think the sacrificial base board.









Remnants of the label saying Northampton Shoe Peg Company!



























The Jackson saw is 20"x4", split nut. Don't think they have ever been moved



























One repair ( looks familiar Don?)









Family shot









Thanks to Bob for motivation and Smitty for not being a collector!


----------



## summerfi

Fantastic Kevin! She looks to be in nice shape for being that old. That Shoe Peg label is very cool.


----------



## JethroBodean

We have a happy OldFart! Got any plans this weekend, Kevin?


----------



## theoldfart

^ yup, mitre box gazing!

Bob, any thing you can tell me about the Jackson saw? Did Jackson ever exist as its own company or is it a Diston? The handles on the two saws in the photos are different even though they are in the same time period.


----------



## Tim457

That is really cool Kevin, and the partial label is really nice to have too. Getting harder to claim you're not collecting them now though.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, I have most assuredly crossed over to the dark side and am a collector of mitre boxes(but only mitre boxes mind you)


----------



## rroselavy

I don't think I posted this here before, but I purchased this Stanley No. 360 a few years back, complete with original instructions and "trip" fitting. Huge 28" saw made by Disston for Stanley. Original owner doted on this tool according to his widow. Super smooth rolling action. I make sure to offer the box and saw periodic TLC.


----------



## theoldfart

Scott I'm still trying to get my hands on a 30×6 saw. The box looks to be in excellent shape, should serve you well over the years.


----------



## CL810

Kevin that looks like fun to me. Glad it all worked out.


----------



## summerfi

Kevin, there were two Jackson's. One was a secondary brand of Disston. I suspect that's what your miter saw is. The other Jackson was much older. I know they made backsaws, but I think they may have preceded the invention of the mechanical miter box. I think I have an article here somewhere. I'll have to look for it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, Kevin! That has to be an awesome feeling, being the new keeper of that gem!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks everyone. I've contacted the seller and they are getting me the name of the previous owner and some history.


----------



## theoldfart

Still cuts after 145 or so years









Square as well









It did take a number of strokes in 3/4" pine, but should be pretty good after a sharpening. The big decision now is rehab for a user or preserve as an antique. I'm leaning towards preservation, I have plenty of other boxes 

This is a solicitation for well thought out opinions so have have at it!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Quite honestly, your use of the box is not going to hurt it all all so I'd be inclined to say 'keep it in the shop space, use it whenever you want to.' You'll enjoy the priviledge, the tool will still do what it was supposed to do, a win-win.

It'd be great if the seller comes through with some tangible history of the box and it's use over the years. So cool.


----------



## Tim457

I agree, that would be really cool if the seller could come up with some information on the tool. I always ask, but rarely does anyone have much good info. I'm in the use it once in a while camp too. Unless it's a truly priceless antique then using it once in a while will probably make for cleaning and oiling it up more often and keep it in better shape in the long run.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm inclined to agree with you both. Somehow I do want to preserve the label remains. I have good pics so the info is not lost. I also printed out the patent data and drawings to keep with it.


----------



## DLK

I don't know… when ever the seller has a story, e.g. this was my grandfathers tool I still remember him using it..
the price seems to go up or get very firm. Cost me $100 for a number 8 once. (O.K. it was in pristine condition
tuned up and ready to go so probably worth $100, but still …. there was no room for bargaining.)

However stories are nice.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A $100 H&H in pristine condit is worth every bit of $100. But I know what you mean, Don, about stories that raise prices.


----------



## theoldfart

The story I got was after the box was delivered. The seller is aware I'm not looking for anything else. They sent their phone number so I'll see what turns up.

Guess i'm just gullible


----------



## donwilwol

Its like the one owner car I guess. Only driven by the little old lady back and forth to church.


----------



## DanKrager

DonW, out here the story goes "Little old lady only drove it on Sundays." and in the picture you can see her walking away from the used car lot counting her bills with a racing helmet under her arm!
So, TOF, the little ole man only used it on Sundays?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

As far as I know yes!


----------



## upchuck

I try to remember the adage: "Buy the thing. Don't buy the stories." 
Back in Illinois the auctioneer would say that this was Abe Lincoln's axe. "It's had the handle replaced four or five times and the head replaced twice but this is the axe that Abe used."


----------



## DanKrager

It's real old, but I still giggle at that, Chuck!

DanK


----------



## Tim457

> I don t know… when ever the seller has a story, e.g. this was my grandfathers tool I still remember him using it..
> the price seems to go up or get very firm. Cost me $100 for a number 8 once. (O.K. it was in pristine condition
> tuned up and ready to go so probably worth $100, but still …. there was no room for bargaining.)
> 
> However stories are nice.
> 
> - Combo Prof


That's why I always ask for the stories after I hand over the money and ask if they have anything else. 

I got my mitre box and 3 full tool chests from a guy selling his dad's granddad's and great granddad's stuff. They were house and finish carpenters. Actually that one I paid him more than he asked because the deal was so good.


----------



## theoldfart

"That's why I always ask for the stories after I hand over the money"

This is what I did but everyone seems to think I'm not going to get a straight story.


----------



## upchuck

I have nothing against "the stories". When I bought my turn of the century #45 combo plane there was an Indian Head penny in the old wooden box mixed in with the other parts and saw dust. The seller grabbed the penny and said that it was not part of the plane. There was also a couple of saw files wrapped in a Williams, AZ hardware store paper bag. The bag had a 5 digit phone number on it. On the same day from the same seller I bought a saw that had a Phoenix, AZ hardware store secondary etch on it. Business directories indicate the hardware store existed before AZ became a state in 1912. I wish I'd had more stories about these tools.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I hope you get the backstory on that box, whatever there is to learn. If only these vintAge pieces could talk, right?


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely Smitty, especially this one.


----------



## terryR

.


----------



## terryR

In need of some miter box buying advice…

I have a 26×4.5" Simmonds miter saw, cleaned, but will need sharpening. Will it fit a Millers Falls box like this one? It's on the 'bay; missing it's label. How does it look to the esteemed panel?



















more photos available…


----------



## terryR

I also have a Disston plate that is 30×5.5" if Kevin is interested, or anyone.
No tote, been ridden hard and put up wet many times.


----------



## DLK

If it is a 73C or a 72C then yes. If its (the more common) 74c or 75c then no. You need to ask the seller what is the distance from the bottom of the saw guide hole to the bottom plate. If it is less then 4.5" you are good. Sending you the Miller Falls- Langdon manual.

BY the way it looks like it is missing a few parts. The depth gauges for example. But I found it on e-bay and read the new added notes. Its not a MF-L at its just a MF. A very early model and hence I don't know anything, and the manual I sent does not apply. So ask the owner to measure and if it is less then 4.5" you are very likely good.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, the posts look kind of long for that box. They may not be original. They seem to extend below the pivoting arm by quite a bit. Let go downstairs and look at my 74 for comparison. Get back to you shortly.

Edit, Don't listen to me! Mine is the same way. It is an early 74 size 2 1/2 and it takes a 5" saw.
Here's how to measure


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Depth gauges (lack of) allowing posts to drop below grade? Saw guides have bearings, that's a good sign. Had an All Steel, sold it.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, you sold it ( gasp)?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Weak moment, but yeah. I still hace the Goodell and three stNleys and two craftsman and… And…


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the .pdf, Don. I've learned a thing or 2 already!

Thanks for the photo, Kevin. Seller has a "buddy" that is providing sketchy ID information. Made me wonder if it was really as valuable as they thought?

still looking…LOL.


----------



## terryR

hate that this one is already restored, but…


----------



## DLK

I have one of these a 74c and I love it. This one looks complete. I am missing the two depth gauge, bent washer and screw assembly. Which only means I cannot automatically make a stopped cut. Anyway spare parts seem to be hard to find, except of course screws which are all standard threads. I recommend getting this. Looks to be the best deal on the bay now. Having said that I got mine at a swap meet in Az, had it ship to Mi, got a saw of the bay all for under $200. Shipping was most of it.

The notes mention 4 holes in the plate. They are there to attach an unnecessary bottom board. It looks like the 27×4 3/4 saw that comes with it will complete the cut.

If you can afford it, go get it and look to buy 28×5 saw some day.

At the very least you can use its parts as a model to make my missing parts, LOL.


----------



## terryR

Don, it comes with a restored Simmonds ( with a SW etch! ) for that price.
Gonna be hard to resist this tool…


----------



## Tim457

Terry, aren't you moving to Colorado soon? I bet Walden, Todd, or another local LJ could find you a better one for a good price. I pass them up pretty often on CL because I haven't seen one better than mine and shipping one costs so much. That last one does look complete and would work well I'm sure.


----------



## ToddJB

> Terry, aren t you moving to Colorado soon?
> 
> - Tim


So he keeps saying, Tim.


----------



## terryR

Not soon enough, guys!
gotta find a sucker, I mean buyer, for this 140 year old home and 160 acres with no cell phone coverage…


----------



## DLK

> Don, it comes with a restored Simmonds ( with a SW etch! ) for that price.
> Gonna be hard to resist this tool…
> 
> - terryR


Well if the saw is what makes the deal. Great, go for it. It is a great box.


----------



## planepassion

TOF, regarding your measurement, I think you may be a bit off. I would measure from the base of the top saw spine slot down to the wider part of the opening at the opposite end of the slot.










If the post has bearings, you'll need to take that into account too.


----------



## theoldfart

Brad, the angle of my pic makes it look like I mis measured. Thy edge of the tape starts at the base of the spine and the 5" inch mark is in the middle of the lower slot. Should have posted a better pic. There are no bearings my posts on this box.


----------



## terryR

Are bearings a good thing?

I'm looking for the miter saw to improve accuracy in my work.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, bearings are nice BUT they require some maintenance. MF gave up on them and went to oil bronze. Most of the boxes I pick up the have bearings that are missing or frozen. If your posts are clean and greased they should not drag on the saw spine much at all. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## terryR

What is oil bronze?


----------



## theoldfart

Oil impregnated bronze, less friction. I'm not sure about hardness relative to regular bronze.


----------



## DLK

Terry, buy the MF-L with Simmonds saw, you will be very happy with it.


----------



## Mosquito

Speaking of Millers Falls miterboxes… 
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2015/11/26/mitre-box-manual-a-free-download/


----------



## TheFridge

I think they also have Teflon impregnated (huh huh huh) bronze. Don't know about for this application which helps nothing. But hey, sounds pretty sweet.


----------



## JayT

Gave the 150 a workout a couple nights ago. Over 100 cuts. Perfectly accurate and felt great. Was also able to cut pieces far smaller than would have been safe with a powered miter saw.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Kevin. As you've guessed by now, I know nothing about miter boxes!

Don, you still working on your LJ Enabler Certification? LOL! I'm certain that box will make me happy…uncertain if the wife will shoot me for extravagant buying! Plus, it's so damn clean and shiny the rest of my vintage tools will have to polished more…


----------



## DLK

Does she like jewelry?


----------



## theoldfart

JayT, I take it you like the 150?

Terry, I knew about the oil bronze from my days in the paper converting business. Most of our machines had bearings made from the bronze. If someone didn't keep up with the oil/grease the shaft wouldn't be damaged, just press in a new bearing(unless of course they were totally clueless and let shaft wear into the frame!).


----------



## terryR

> Does she like jewelry?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Thankfully, no. But I'm diggin in a pond for her ducks; hopefully it will be nice enough to justify the MF box!


----------



## JayT

> JayT, I take it you like the 150?
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes. It's great for smaller and thinner pieces. Because of how the saw is held, there is very little play, so the angle is very accurate. The saw holder also functions as a very efficient depth stop. The main drawback right now is the saw. I need a longer saw with more plate depth to really take advantage of its capabilities. I have a Warranted Superior 26in miter saw that I am planning to cut down to 20in and make a new handle for just for that purpose.

Still don't have my 200 series miter box restored (mainly because I don't have any good place to store or use it, ATM) but I think the two will complement each other nicely.


----------



## Johnny7

> The main drawback right now is the saw. I need a longer saw with more plate depth to really take advantage of its capabilities.
> 
> - JayT


You may find THIS post to be of interest


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks, 7! I added that link to the OP at the top of the thread, it's a keeper.


----------



## Sillen

Found this Stanley 244


----------



## racerglen

Looks darn fine Nick, what's the saw ?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And that saw handle looks like it's been totally refurbed. Box should clean up just about as nice. Congrats, Nick!


----------



## terryR

That lil 150 looks handy!

my current set up requires lots of sanding to get nice miters…


----------



## CL810

No shooting board Terry? Much easier.


----------



## terryR

That's beautiful, Andy!
I have a great shooting board from JayT that's square…maybe a miter attachment could be built?


----------



## JayT

Terry, your shooting board has a hole to re-set the fence to 45 degrees. Pull both bolts, flip the fence and reset using the other hole. There's enough play to allow for microadjusting the angle until it's perfect.


----------



## terryR

Oh yeah, I didn't realize that fence was large enough till now! Doh!

Thanks, Jay. Been scratching your nice shooting board and plane the past week. Love the mass of that plane, bud!


----------



## CL810

Didn't come with instructions Terry?


----------



## terryR

LOL!
The design you have is what I was thinking, Andy. The plane resting at 45 degrees looks like it would trim wider stock accurately?


----------



## CL810

As wide as you want to make the jig.


----------



## shuf

I have just acquired a Miller Falls Langdon 74C Miter Box and I'm in the middle or a restoration. I am looking for one each Part Number 14537 "Elevator Put-up" and two each Part Number 25025 Depth Gauge. Does anyone have any or all of these parts for sale?


----------



## DLK

> I have just acquired a Miller Falls Langdon 74C Miter Box and I m in the middle or a restoration. I am looking for one each Part Number 14537 "Elevator Put-up" and two each Part Number 25025 Depth Gauge. Does anyone have any or all of these parts for sale?
> 
> - shuf


I've been looking for two each Part Number 25025 Depth Gauge for almost a year now. Finally got one, but you need two.


----------



## shuf

If I have any luck, I'll send you any left overs.


----------



## DLK

> If I have any luck, I ll send you any left overs.
> 
> - shuf


See if you can also find two " depth gauge bent washers" 16320.


----------



## summerfi

What a bargain!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-100-yr-old-240-miter-box-/181953392743?hash=item2a5d447067:g:mtQAAOSwp5JWZGxo


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Unbelievable, Bob. I've got a couple at a few hundred less, if only folks would ask.


----------



## duckmilk

Bob, did the guy selling in your link above lower his price? Right now it is at $80.00 plus 70 shipping (not in my price range), but was it higher?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I actually sent him an ebay question: "$2,800? Seriously? Wait, that was two questions."

He came back with a "I saw an old one had sold for $6,000, sorry."

Then a couple days later it was lowered.


----------



## theoldfart

"Sold for $6,000" ????

I have two of the oldest metal mitre boxes and trust me I didn't pay that. What kind of bx would get that kind of price?


----------



## DLK

> "Sold for $6,000" ????
> 
> I have two of the oldest metal mitre boxes and trust me I didn t pay that. What kind of bx would get that kind of price?
> 
> - theoldfart


A solid gold one.


----------



## racerglen

Did you miss the GOLD plate Kevin..? oops, that's paint.. ;-)
(damn, wish this thang would post when I push the button…lol..


----------



## summerfi

Yeah, it's been lowered by $2520. Some people just have no clue.


----------



## Mosquito

It annoys me when people get aggressive in telling you off when you try to help.

"Hey, just thought I'd let you know that what's in the pictures for your 'Complete #55' listing is actually a #46 with 3 irons for it, and a 2 boxes of #55 irons"

"F*** YOU you don't know what you're talking about"

"Ok, good luck"

for $500, no less


----------



## summerfi

Yep, I've experienced that myself Mos.


----------



## DLK

I was told once that when you buy your house, that you should immediately double the price and put it back on the market. Who knows maybe some one will buy it. So perhaps listing something at a greatly inflated price might
trap someone into foolishly buying it …. in error.


----------



## bandit571

Heck, they could pay ME 4 grand for this GEM of a mitresaw….









Getting set up to trim out a burnt room..









After all the work to replace the burnt wall, mud & tape, primer, and painted. Need a couple sticks of trim put up..


----------



## ToddJB

I was cruising craigslist the other day and came across "Two hand craved antique doll boots. They don't match in size, the tops are cracked up, but unique and truly one of a kind. $35"

The picture was a plane tote that was broke into two pieces. Ha. I shot her an email and informed her. She, unlike some, was appreciative.


----------



## DLK

With the write marketing you can sell anything at any price.


----------



## JethroBodean

I think I may be in love, but just not sure. Has anybody heard of the "Kawalle Automatic Mitre Box"? It appears that this box has some sort of articulated 'wings' and seems to fold down to a very small size (for a mitre box). Has anybody seen one of these in the wild?

I stumbled across this while on one of my random internet searches:
https://books.google.com/books?id=7PVYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=Kawalle+Automatic&source=bl&ots=vZ3j2TEODs&sig=EgqidW3jktUSpXwHOmX_t-UvORc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_oty0n9LJAhVY0GMKHf0gARQQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=Kawalle%20Automatic&f=false

Once you have Google books opened (and this works as I think it will) you should see a yellow bar right above the printed page. Click on the words 'Previous' and 'Next' and you should then see additional information on this box.


----------



## DLK

> With the write marketing you can sell anything at any price.
> 
> - Combo Prof


*right marketing* to busy to proof read.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That Kawlle looks good! I'd love to see one in person, or even outside of a catalog.


----------



## racerglen

Good looking room Bandit, what's the line "all good things come to those who end up doing it themselves"? Naw that's not it ;-)


----------



## Tim457

> That Kawlle looks good! I d love to see one in person, or even outside of a catalog.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Very interesting Box. The second page after clicking next shows it being used for curved molding. This isn't in person, but here is an eBay link. The various google books results show ads from 1899-1925 so there should be some more examples out there.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Mitre-Caja-w-saw-/261967342735?_ul=BO&nma=true&si=F6we%252BPQeX%252BBFpw%252FJEGmKR8gOMG8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Now I'm in love with that mitre box…


----------



## Mosquito

Excuse the interruption, but 2016 calendar is here  Gonna make sure it gets posted in most of the contributing threads, so don't be too alarmed if you see it pop up a few more times in the next couple of days.

The 2016 Calendar info can be found here:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/133282


----------



## Johnny7

I have no personal stake in this, but for anyone interested …

AUTOMATIC CATCH


----------



## tshiker

Hi All!

Thought i'd introduce you to the "Family". First up is Grandpa: A Langdon Improved No 16 (I think) Missing the saw and original wood base but otherwise all parts are there. A monster of a box at 24" long and a bed of 6" wide! If anyone has a picture of the paper label pasted on the back of these boxes they would like to share I would appreciate it very much as the one on mine is very hard to read!



















Next up is the "wage earner" A fine box, used to be my daily user. Found this at the local Habitat restore a few years ago.




























This next one is a nice middle of the road sized box with what I think is the original saw.



















This one is my "New" daily user. Works fantastically! Saw has the correct Sweet heart etch and is razor sharp!



















Last but not least is the "Runt" of the litter. Box is only 12" long. Saw has part of the original paper label on the handle. Great for small moulding!



















Thanks for letting me share and feel free to ask me any questions.

Tom.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful family of saws and boxes, Tom! Wiping drool from my keyboard, heading back for another look…

Love the runt of the bunch, also the user-made box for that newer Stanley. SW looks complete as well, with the rod tree as well. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## terryR

Great family; still looking for my first! LOL.
starting to think small…that runt looks easy to manage and quite handy!


----------



## theoldfart

Tom, I could have sworn I posted this yesterday. I have the father of your grandfather mitre box. It has a partial label 









and the label









I'm looking for a small one like yours, hopefully a 15 1/2 or 16 1/2. Like your collection, oops I meant to say multiple useful dimensioning objects. After all there are no collectors around here!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Who's the manufacturer of that wee little box, Tom?


----------



## tshiker

Thanks for the complements guys! I love Miter boxes but they take up a lot of room in the shop so i'll have to slow down on my acquisitions. One of the neat features of the Grandpa box is that when you press the lever to unlock the carriage and swing the saw, it automatically lifts the saw off of the bed so it doesn't get stuck in one of the kerf's!

Oldfart, thanks for posting the label pic. The only writing I can make out on mine is the last line on the bottom that spells out this box is to be used with a monster 30" by 6" saw, Did anyone make a bigger back saw? If so, I've never seen one. I think that most of the label remains but is hidden by dirt. I need to research how to clean it without ruining it.

Smitty, While the "runt" has no name printed on it that I can see, I'm pretty sure it was made by Langdon. The saw was made by Disston.


----------



## theoldfart

TS, 30×6 is the biggest production size I know of.

My Langdon has the same lift mechanism.


----------



## donwilwol

I need to regain some shop space. I am going to sell my Langdon Miter box , http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/25753

If anyone is interested in making an offer, let me know. I've got a Stanley I need to pull down and see what it is as well.

I only need one and I can't keep up with all this stuff. Time for a little bit of a purge!



















Trades welcome!!


----------



## terryR

PM coming yer way, DW…


----------



## paulm12

I have a similar miter box to Don's above that I am starting to use. I would like to be able to use for general cross cutting more than precise angles (at least for now). I have a couple of questions:

1. the bottom center support, into which the saw blade just rides above, is on my miter box, around 0.020 below the level of the 2 red side supports. Should I raise this up to match? The saw seems to slightly bind at the end of the cut causing a bit of tearout on the bottom.
2. what are pros and cons of adding a board support across the entire bottom of these types of miter boxes?

thanks. Picture below shows as I received the box, I did remove the tape that I assume held a board










.


----------



## CFrye

I call this my mini miter box. 









More correctly it is AD McBurney #33 Corner Miter Clamp. I have it mounted to a board that can be clamped in my bench vise for use. Kevin(theoldfart) suggested I post it here in the hopes you all can steer me to the appropriate saw that would fit it for scale and purpose. Also posting in the saw thread. 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## terryR

That's a cool set up, Candy. I've been cutting small pieces of molding lately, but had to just use a bench hook. Then sandpaper to perfect the cut.

I'm very new to miter boxes, but seems like the Stanley 150 is the smallest real miter box? Guys, please correct me when wrong!

A smaller tool sure seems like a nice idea. I'm surprised Bob hasn't designed a smaller saw…


----------



## theoldfart

Terry look for a Millers Falls 16 1/2. Smallest one I know of.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Kevin, but I just nabbed the big MF that Don wanted to let go. Probably won't even get set up till CO, so I'll keep plodding along with bench hook for a dozen more cuts.

But planning for the future cannot start too soon! 

Maybe I'll search for a clamp like Candy is using, and think of a modded saw…


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a 16-1/2, and it is indeed rather small


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, maybe a pic or two?


----------



## Mosquito

Was trying to find one, but couldn't in any of my photo stores. However, April has two of them ;-)

Actually I think it's 15-1/2? (this is Derek's)

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/MFMitreboxRebuild.html


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, thanks. I did see Derek's blog post on his restore. Seems when 15 1/2's and 16 1/2's show up on the bay the prices are too rich for me. I'll continue to haunt flea mkts and tag sales along with CL for my search.


----------



## Mosquito

I picked mine up from someone here, who grabbed it off craigslist or at a local sale, or something. It's not 100% complete, but close enough to be usable. The trickiest part, I'm finding, is finding a saw for it… once I've got the time, I'll probably make one


----------



## terryR

That's a sweet looking miter saw, and box!
must resist…....LOL…...........


----------



## JethroBodean

Well can't explain why, anymore than I can explain this mitre box obsession to my wife, but I've really been wanting a Stanley 150 Mitre box for a few years now. However after several years of rust hunting at various swamp meets, flea markets, garage sales & antiques store, I still have not seen one of these in the wild. I've also rarely seen them locally on Craigslist for a price and/or condition that was acceptable to me. The same has pretty much been true with eBay. Well I finally found one on eBay that looked to be of a quality and price that I could accept. As a bonus it came with a nice looking older 10" Disston backsaw. And just for icing on the cake it turned out to still have the original "Length stop". There is some rust in evidence, but I am planning to do the bare minimum to this one, keeping as much as possible in it's original (rust free) state.

After I received it, I did find that the saw does have a bit of a wow in it. But I had heard that retensioning a backsaw will usually cure that. Sadly I didn't really know what this mysterious retensioning thing was or how to actually do it.

Internet search to the rescue!!! I stumbled across a fantastic document named "Demystifying the Traditional Backsaw" from the good folks (Mark D. Harrell) over at Bad Axe and I wanted to share the link for anybody who has not yet seen this (http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/pdf/Demystifying.pdf). Take a look around their site for other documents, including one describing how they clean up old saw plates. Man, I sure would love to get my hands on one of their saws just give it a try; I don't think I have ever used a quality saw that has never been rusty sometime in it's past!

Well here are a couple of shots of the 150:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jeff, that's a great post. And the 150 Mitrebox does look great. The stop is usually missing, 'tis true. You have a good one. The 10" backsaw also looks sweet; handle has a great look, obviously well used and cared for. New bed in the future plans for the box?


----------



## Cooler

I've used the Stanley miter box. But it was not as accurate as a good powered miter saw so I don't see the attraction.

They had one at the picture frame shop I worked at. The miters were not good enough for picture framing unless we trimmed it with a Lion Miter Trimmer.

Whereas a good miter saw can be setup to do the same in a single operation.

I use a Frame Square sliding table miter saw which is my "miter box of my dreams".

http://www21.pair.com/hequip/ZQT_3099.JPG


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That looks like a precision machine. But I'd disagree with the premise that all hand boxes are inferior to powered mitre saws. That said, not much that comes 'off the saw' in the world of picture frames is perfect, so a shooting board makes sense and can work to the thou.

If I ran a framing business, I'd have a saw like you pictured.


----------



## JethroBodean

Yea Smitty, new bed in the future, probably make it look 'Fancy' with some Oak I have laying around.

And Cooler, for me it's an attraction that cannot be explained. At least I haven't been able to.


----------



## MrUnix

While not exactly something of my dreams, I recently wound up with this C-man miter box:










It's a model 881.36303 and I've been unable to find much info about it… if anyone has any first hand experience with one, is it worth the effort to rehab or is it junk? Seems to be a little sloppy, but it might just need a bit of tweaking to get in shape.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brad, I actually have a couple of those. The design shares a lot of the old Stanley boxes and actually uses bearings. I think they'll function reasonably well.


----------



## bandit571

There are plastic guide rollers inside those red covers where the saws slides through, they are suppose to have rubber O rings on them.


----------



## MNclone

I came across a millers falls 1124 miter box at an estate sale this morning for $16. It is missing all the stop bolts on both sides. I did a quick ebay search and came up empty. Is is possible to find this hardware or should I pass on this one.


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## JethroBodean

I seriously doubt you would find any of the parts being sold separately. Your best bet is to fabricate the parts. Did it have the saw?

BUT for $16, I'd go for it.


----------



## MNclone

> I seriously doubt you would find any of the parts being sold separately. Your best bet is to fabricate the parts. Did it have the saw?
> 
> BUT for $16, I d go for it.
> 
> - JethroBodean


It had a monster waranted superior with it


----------



## JethroBodean

IMHO, just the saw is probably worth the money. If you find a better box later this one could be used for parts.


----------



## theoldfart

MNclone, that mitre box originally came with with a 24×4 saw. They were first manufactured in 1938. Some info here


----------



## CB_Cohick

That looks like the Craftsman miter box and saw I have, Brad. I sent my saw to Mr. Summerfield for sharpening and it is performing well. I have worked on the handle of the saw some as I found it to be uncomfortable for me. It still needs some work. As far as the miter box goes, it seems to work well. I have no complaints about it.


----------



## ToddJB

I've cried and giggled

http://denver.craigslist.org/atq/5439685273.html


----------



## TheFridge

At least he told me exactly where to go to beat his a$$.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For all that's left of it, boot scraper is almost right…


----------



## JethroBodean

I'm so cheap that for $58, I want the box with all the 'missing' parts and a saw.


----------



## donwilwol

I've got some parts, I need to make a boot scraper!


----------



## paulm12

maybe that link should go in the re-purpose thread?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

We have a repurpose thread?


----------



## webpac

Newbie here. Read all(well, most of) the 1682 messages so far.

I haven't seen mention of the Langdon / Miller Fall " miter box " model number 41..

That's the fancier model of the plain Jane model ,40 first patented February 5, 1902.

If you see one you'll understand the quote marks.

Better writeup on them and only good one I found is from "thekiltedwoowdworker" dated 6/4/2015.

Got one of each off of eBay and haven't seen any since.

My record for smallest box ever made.


----------



## theoldfart

Bill, i jumped over to the kilted woodworker site. I don't agree with some of his statements. The one that sticks out the most is that the #40 was a precursor to the Langdon mitre box. Leander Langdon patented his first box in the 1860's and his second iteration in 1874. The 1874 is the grandaddy design wise of almost all the succeeding mitre boxes. Justus Traut patented his in the 1880's. Both Langdon and Traut had their designs out long before the introduction of the 40 and 41.

I've seen a few of the 40/41's at flea markets. I think maybe next one I see will become mine! I'd like to try them out.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Are there pictures in that post of yours, Bill? Can't wait to see it, might be the machine I'm on blocking them.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty pics here


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Huh, interesting. My guess is, it's a precursor to something, but as OF says, a traditional mitrebox ain't one of 'em. Looks like a cross between the old Stearns / Perfection boxes and an Acme folding mitre. Very different indeed. Learned something, thanks for posting Bill!


----------



## dddddmorgan

I have a gem of a saw myself.

It's a Craftsman - 107-36500


















Hopefully the pics do this beautiful beast justice.

The best part… It was my grandfathers saw. He only owned one old skilsaw, everything else was "Armstrong powered" as he liked to put it.

The crate it sits on is as old as the saw and serves as its traveling box.

The last picture of the sliding bracket is the only thing I don't know about. I'm not sure if it's a support or what, I've never used it.

I use this saw regularly to make picture frames. It's as straight and true as can be and I can cut off a piece of softwood thin enough to see light through.


----------



## dddddmorgan

Sorry, here's the bracket.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That bracket to the right of the nameplate, in the second picture? Looks like it hold a rod in place that'd be a 'stop' for repetitive cuts. The "T," or tree with the Stanleys served the same purpose.

Your box sure looks like it's a Craftsman made by Millers Falls! Very nice! And that it was your grandad's is all the better. Thanks for posting.


----------



## theoldfart

Is that a six inch saw? If so I hate you 

Can you tell i want one?

Super clean mitre box there, and Grandpas to boot.


----------



## DLK

Yes for sure thats a Miller Falls -Langdon 74c made for craftsman.


----------



## dddddmorgan

Don K is right, Millers Falls and the saw is 6" X 25" woo hoo!


----------



## webpac

Newbie here. Read all(well, most of) the 1682 messages so far.

I haven't seen mention of the Langdon / Miller Fall " miter box " model number 41..

That's the fancier model of the plain Jane model ,40 first patented February 5, 1902.

If you see one you'll understand the quote marks.

Better writeup on them and only good one I found is from "thekiltedwoowdworker" dated 6/4/2015.

Got one of each off of eBay and haven't seen any since.

My record for smallest box ever made.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Uhm, Bill, we commented quite a bit on that. Look up ^ a few replies.


----------



## paulm12

Dan: same box I have. I love it, use if for now for general cutting, keeps the dust way down. I do need to get it sharpened, but I can't quite give it up for a few weeks. I also need to find some end stops, as well as the blade-up hold mechanism.


----------



## JethroBodean

Dan M

I recommend looking through this document about Miller Falls Boxes. It is from the www.wkfinetools.com site.

I think from that booklet you will easily see the family resemblance between your Craftsman and the MF boxes. The "back" of the booklet describes the various parts of a miter box and some miter box usage tips. This booklet helped me better understand my Goodell Mfg boxes.

Jeff


----------



## warrenkicker

> I picked mine up from someone here, who grabbed it off craigslist or at a local sale, or something. It s not 100% complete, but close enough to be usable. The trickiest part, I m finding, is finding a saw for it… once I ve got the time, I ll probably make one
> 
> - Mosquito


If you go back to page 25, post 1239 you can see Mosquito's little miter box.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Anyone have any thoughts/experiences with Miller's Falls No 200 mitre boxes? I might go check one out; it looks kind of neat and pretty compact.


----------



## CL810

Bill, I have one. They were sold under a lot of names. They are very accurate and handy.

They were discussed a while back in this thread starting with Smitty's towards the bottom of page 20 and carrying over into page 21.


----------



## donwilwol

I almost bought one yesterday. It was a Millers Falls 200. It was $20 but a quick search on EBay showed it was about right, and I don't need another miter box.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Excellent - thanks gents. The one that I'm looking at is priced at $30 but includes what looks to be a 14"/16"Disston back saw, maybe a No 4. It's also considerably more compact than the 246 and mongo Disston that I currently have.


----------



## dddddmorgan

Paul, nice to see another box, haven't come across one in person. I have one stop, might not be easy to find parts.

Jethro, thanks for the link, nice to see the internet can be useful.

I'm happy making picture frames and such with mine. I pulled it out the other day: I needed about ten quarter inch dowels and the Dewalt was throwing them everywhere! Pulled out 'Ole Trusty and zip, zip, zip I was done with no splintering and all my pieces were found.


----------



## LMIWsean

I found an complete 80's era Craftsman Mitre Saw Box in a garage sale last weekend . It was rusted solid but with some steel wool and mineral spirits. It looks much better. One question: How do I get the saw hangers to work? 
They dont seem to engage the brackets. Owners manual says you just push the saw up and they catch it. Then lift the lever to release. 
Im wondering if I reinstalled the brackets backwards.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Does anyone have any compound angle mitre saws (non-'lecctric of course)

Eric


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

There was a partial Kawalle posted here, as I recall.

Bill, I have one of those that's labeled a Perfection, I believe. But as it was noted, there are lots of copycats of this specific style out there. If it's any kind of tell, the ones I typically see are unused. Good news is, they're really cheap. So get one and decide for yourself, would be my suggestion.


----------



## Tim457

> Does anyone have any compound angle mitre saws (non- lecctric of course)
> 
> Eric
> 
> - realcowtown_eric


I have one Eric, but it's not a very high quality model unfortunately. I think it might work ok eventually if I need it for crown molding, but the joints aren't as tight as I'd like.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, Arrow Heart Compound?


----------



## bandit571

Hoping this helps….









Close to the same model as the OP's saw









Just mine were on the other side.









Been awhile since I've used the keepers…


----------



## Tim457

> Tim, Arrow Heart Compound?
> 
> - theoldfart


Indeed that's the one. Have any more info?


----------



## theoldfart

Not really but thee's one on the Bay right now. Around $80 plus shipping, seemed expensive


----------



## Aidan1211

I have 4 miter boxes and only like the Langdon it seems to be the most accurate.


----------



## JethroBodean

TOF & Tim
There is an Arrow Heart here locally on craigslist for $50 (trying to decide if I need yet another box). No saw, but I've got a few orphaned saws that I'm sure would work with it. Oh what to do, what to do?


----------



## theoldfart

I have no actual experience with the ArrowHeart but my inclination would be to buy it and play with it. If it doesn't work out put it up EBay or Craigslist as an "Extremely Rare Never Seen Before Multiple Angled Human Powered Wood Cutting Machine" and ask for $500 as a Buy It Now!

+1 on the Langdon accuracy Aidan, I have three!


----------



## Tim457

> TOF & Tim
> There is an Arrow Heart here locally on craigslist for $50 (trying to decide if I need yet another box). No saw, but I ve got a few orphaned saws that I m sure would work with it. Oh what to do, what to do?
> 
> - JethroBodean


Unless you checked it out and found the joints to be much more sturdy than on mine I wouldn't pay $50 for it. It's not like they're floppy, but not as solid as I would like for an accurate cut. But then again, TOF might be on to something there. There are so many absurdly priced items on eBay it has to work often enough to make the listing fees worth it.


----------



## summerfi

What's a Stanley 150 worth? I saw one today in nice shape for $18 sans saw. They also had a rusty older Stanley, maybe a 258(?) with some of the lesser parts and saw missing but no price marked. Two patent dates, 05 and 09 as I recall. Would that be a desirable find, and at what price?


----------



## JethroBodean

Grab the 150, even without the saw. I thought I had a pretty deal at $55 (plus $15 shipping). Mine did have a saw, but your should be able to pickup a saw somewhere down the road. Not only that but the 150 was designed so that it would work with almost any hand saw.


----------



## DLK

I think Bob could make a saw. :-]


----------



## JethroBodean

I plead ignorance and throw myself on the mercy of the group. Bob, you clearly know where to come up with saws way better than I do. ;-)


----------



## CL810

What could go wrong???

Flagged


----------



## theoldfart

Finally, found a Langdon 15 1/2 mitre box. It came with a Jackson saw.









Also picked up a big All Steel box with a 6" saw


----------



## theoldfart

The big one, a Millers Falls All Steel 1306









And just to show scale


----------



## CL810

Gotta love the 15-1/2!


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely Andy, kept on seeing them on the Bay for $200 +. Too rich for my wallet. The depth stops, I think, are not original but other than that's perfect. I need to make some wooden bases, gotta find some non skid paint.


----------



## paulm12

Picked up these 2 miter boxes this week. Both were very grungy but appear salvage-able. They are a Millers Falls #75 and a Marsh Ayers, which I know nothing about. Does anyone have the manual for the older MF 75? and anyone have any info on the Marsh Ayers box? Neither unit had a saw. Thanks.
.


----------



## distrbd

There's a miter box for sale in our local classified"Kijiji" for $25, the seller says it is made in Germany but doesn't know the make/model of the saw.I thought of this thread right away ,could any of you recognize the manufacturer? here are a couple of picks:


----------



## duckmilk

Is that saw set up to work on the pull stroke?


----------



## Johnny7

I'm going to guess *Ulmia* (or a clone thereof)


----------



## theoldfart

Man has saw backwards! very interesting


----------



## distrbd

This is the ad:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?requestSource=b&adId=1145815897
And here's what he wrote:
*I have a cast aluminum metal mitre saw for sale. 
The saw is made in germany and has the german safety seal cast into the main body. I tilts up and down on the blade and will cut on a side angle as well. The base will angle left and right and has a locking handle to secure it. The base is drilled for secure mounting to a table if desired otherwise it is portable. I have owned it for several years and it functions well. Located in Keene*
I never noticed it was backward lol.
Johnny7, I don't think it's a clone.


----------



## Tim457

> Johnny7, I don t think it s a clone.
> - distrbd


Maybe not, but I second the Ulmia or clone. They are distinctive, but without a maker mark there's no way to be sure it isn't some kind of clone. Worth $25 if you need one, they are described as working well.

Sorry Paul, I don't have any info for you. The sites I go to for the MF mitre boxes only cover up to the 74C.


----------



## distrbd

> Johnny7, I don t think it s a clone.
> - distrbd
> 
> Maybe not, but I second the Ulmia or clone. They are distinctive, but without a maker mark there s no way to be sure it isn t some kind of clone. Worth $25 if you need one, they are described as working well.
> 
> Sorry Paul, I don t have any info for you. The sites I go to for the MF mitre boxes only cover up to the 74C.
> 
> - Tim


Tim ,you are right about the price ,it's reasonable but I already have a(Lee Valley's) miter box ,I would have bought it if it was in better condition though.
Thank you all for your comments.


----------



## paulm12

> Johnny7, I don t think it s a clone.
> - distrbd
> 
> Maybe not, but I second the Ulmia or clone. They are distinctive, but without a maker mark there s no way to be sure it isn t some kind of clone. Worth $25 if you need one, they are described as working well.
> 
> Sorry Paul, I don t have any info for you. The sites I go to for the MF mitre boxes only cover up to the 74C.
> 
> - Tim


Tim: Thanks much for reply. I'm continuing to look for info on both.


----------



## Johnny7

This may be a newer version of it (or, again, a clone of the design)
Note the "Y" straps holding the spine (tube) to the uprights










Amazon-80 bucks


----------



## distrbd

Thanks Johnny7,it looks like the one in my post.


----------



## JethroBodean

Yesterday I stumbled upon a Stanley 2360, I hadn't even heard of one before. Despite the fact that everything (and I do mean everything) was rusted tight; I could not pass up the $5 bundle of rusted joy. I know that it is used with a hacksaw (I'll have to see if any of mine fit it). Whether you use it to cut metal, plastic or wood depends mostly on the blade you have in the saw. I'd love to hear any LJ knowledge that you want to share about this box.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

I havea one of the stanley metal mitre boxes and have yet to find the hacksaw that fits. For the metal trim mitres, I use the flooring fellas mitre boxes. not nearly so flexible but 99% of mitre cuts are 90/45

http://www.tools4flooring.com/gundlach-201-all-steel-precision-miter-box.html. I think I'm up to three of em now….5 bucks at garage sales cause nobody knows what the heck they are. Work with any hacksaw foreward or backwards (my fave)

Eric


----------



## bandit571

$8 for these three backsaws…









The silver bolt one seems to be a Warranted Pheonix, the other two are disstons…..this is the handle close up









The longest one is 28" long by 5" from teeth to spine. The others are a bit shorter. Needs a good cleaning, blades are arrow straight. Teeth seem to be sharp…..not a bad day…


----------



## theoldfart

Pretty good haul Bandit.


----------



## bandit571

Went back to that garage sale this morning, and spent $15 more…









Going to clean it up. Back guide bars need work, guide will not go all the way up, to lock. It says it is a Stanley, right on the guides. Saw is a big, old Disston

Missing a few parts….will know more after a good clean up


----------



## bandit571

Well, at least NOW I can read the etch on that saw a bit better. Saw is branded as a Stanley Mitre Box Saw. from Philly, PA. Will know more as I get to cleaning. Medallion does say Disston * U.S.A.*

LOTS of spider nests to clean. No name plates, other than the STANLEY cast into the guides. There is a rod running the length of the base, PB Blaster might loosen it up a bit…


----------



## bandit571

Found a name plate on the mitrebox! Stanley, with a red background. Stamped above that…No. 358

Saw was made expressly for Stanley Mitre Box by Disston & Sons of Philada. USA according to the now readable etch on that saw.

Getting things cleaned up on the box, right now…...missing a few things. Found a knurled head bolt threaded into one of the leg's feet? Bolt looks like the ones used on a Stanley No.78's cap iron? Have it set aside, for now. Long rod, with a sliding collar ran underneath the box. Stop of some kind???

Guess I had better go and look up what a Stanley No. 358 Mitre box is supposed to have…


----------



## bandit571

And the "after" photo..









Swung all the way to the left ( to get all of this thing in one picture) after a 90 degree test cut









Not too hateful…. Cleaned and clocked the bolts on the" made for this mitrebox" saw's handle









haven't refinished the wood part, yet. Setting number and label are cleaned up..









A new deck of Poplar, although a might too thick. Will adjust the stops up a bit, later.

$15 Mitrebox and matching saw, not too bad a deal….


----------



## JoeLyddon

*G R E A T* ... *W O R K* !! *D E A L* !!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Don't know a thing about it (and I'm not tempted to buy it), but this is an interesting-looking piece that popped up on CL -


----------



## theoldfart

Bill, I hope to find one of those someday!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Are they supposed to be pretty snazzy, of? I did a quick search and I'm not seeing much on them or how they work. or how well they work.


----------



## theoldfart

Bill, i couldn't tell you of they are snazzy(read valuable) or just highly desirable. I just like the look of them and would like to try one out, just not for $150! If you go back in time on this thread someone posted about them or something like them.


----------



## Mosquito

For some reason, even at $150 it almost tempts me… 
Some more reading on it: 
https://books.google.com/books?id=P4DmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA116-IA3&lpg=PA116-IA3&dq=braunsdorf+mueller+miter+box&source=bl&ots=wIIwFACuze&sig=DVzEjSdRMl5NzOclxCeWHEkxna0&hl=en&ei=yU7kTLP2LYKB8gbD4sGCDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=braunsdorf%20mueller%20miter%20box&f=false


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, if I could negotiate a lower price, say $125, AND not pay shipping I'd go for it. The only pricey box I have is one of the first Langdons and the only reason i paid it is because it was made near my home. There are so many good boxes out there for $25-$35 it's hard to justify paying more.


----------



## Mosquito

almost tempted lol I don't think I'd be interested in paying $150 either, unless it was already well restored. Problem is I've got 3 boxes already lol


----------



## theoldfart

I try not to count them, but I think i'm up to ten!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Do eeet, Mos! A) it would be cool to have it in the hands of an LJer and B) it would be cool to have it in the hands of someone that could take pics/film of it to add to the info available online.


----------



## theoldfart

^ pro active enabler if I might say so!

Damn it Mos, I went and counted. It's ten.


----------



## Mosquito

Well I'll keep my count of #45's to myself ;-)

If I decided to try to pick that one up, I'd probably have to sell one of the ones I've already got I think


----------



## WillliamMSP

> ^ pro active enabler if I might say so!
> 
> Damn it Mos, I went and counted. It s ten.
> 
> - theoldfart


Well, it's not my fault that he has the unusual ability and attention to detail needed to document and teach others on the use of vintage, idiosyncratic tools.

(that's not too thick, is it? )


----------



## theoldfart

if words were solid it'd be a slab dude!


----------



## Mosquito

I'll think about it… But right now it's time to go play with the retoother


----------



## dbray45

I finally found a Stanley 2358 that was complete - except the saw is not for this miter box. I like the saw itself but the tote got chipped in shipping and repairing it will be annoying.

The miter box itself seems to be original, the paint may not - it is an odd color. Either way, it is going to be disassembled, cleaned up and be ready for use. Like my Langdon (with a Craftsman label), these two miter boxes will be my "go to" miter saws.

When I can, I will post some pictures. I probably over paid a touch but it is complete


----------



## realcowtown_eric

williamMSP. it was I who posted about this mitrebox earlier earlier.

This mitre-box is was a caompund mitre box. If you look at the wings, there are many holes fore holding angled attachments (likely missing) that allow the compond mitre functionality…. so that's a negotiating point…ie missing parts. These mitre boxes are scare/rare in my humble opinion. I would love to know what make of saw was included. If you revsit it, the compound mitre attachments look like machinists right angle set-up blocks. Also ask if there are any instruction books or pamphlets related to it….

If you're not interested, file the image away. it may be many years til you see another one!

Eric in Calgary


----------



## realcowtown_eric

williamMSP. it was I who posted about this mitrebox earlier earlier.

This mitre-box is was a caompund mitre box. If you look at the wings, there are many holes fore holding angled attachments (likely missing) that allow the compond mitre functionality…. so that's a negotiating point…ie missing parts. These mitre boxes are scare/rare in my humble opinion. I would love to know what make of saw was included. If you revsit it, the compound mitre attachments look like machinists right angle set-up blocks. Also ask if there are any instruction books or pamphlets related to it….

If you're not interested, file the image away. it may be many years til you see another one!

Scope out the patent to get some sense of the compound mitre attachements. and then you'll be searching the ads and see reference to the pamphlet, which describe (apparently) the attachments, which I have yet to find.

Eric in Calgary


----------



## JethroBodean

Bandit
I've been meaning to say, what a great two day haul! I've sill got a couple of open spots in my till if you need somewhere to store any of those saws.

Yes the bed on your Stanley is too thick. I've got a couple of boxes that I'm convinced still had the original bed and both of them are 1/2" think and 4-3/4" deep. And the bottom/back edge of the bed is chamfered at about 45% about a 1/3 of the thickness up. The other difference is the 2 dadoes used for the Stock Guides.



















The one other thing is that the flat bottomed release lever at the top of the back post is backwards, it should be pointing away from the handle. The idea being that you release the front latch and as you begin to lower the handle, the tilting blade with then release the back latch.










Jeff


----------



## bandit571

Jeff: Thank you. Will make the required changes when I can get to them. Planing on selling two of the saw, since I can't find an etch on them. Both are 5" under the spine. One has thay big curved heel, the other is straight. Supposed to be 28" long..

The Lamb's Tongue one and the silver WS one will be going, just need to know where…


----------



## mramseyISU

My el-cheapo craftsman 10" slider died on me a while back so I've been on the lookout for a replacement. There is this guy here in town that has 2 warehouses full of crap that I went through about a year back and saw this saw. I didn't need one then because I had the slider and it was still running. Well since that was no longer the case I figured I'd stop out and see if the saw was still there. Sure enough it was there and somebody had covered it up so it took some looking to find it. From what I can tell it's a Miller Falls 74C but the nameplate has been knocked off. I cleaned up the saw (no pictures yet) and there isn't an etch anywhere. I ordered a couple files from Lee Valley and I'm going to sharpen this bad boy up and start making some sawdust.


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## Tim457

That's a good find, but just wanted to say that's not the first saw you want to learn on. Try a large tooth rip saw first, then a crosscut then move on to a mitre box saw when you think you're ready.

If you already know how to sharpen saws, consider my unsolicited advice worth as much as you paid for it.


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## mramseyISU

> That s a good find, but just wanted to say that s not the first saw you want to learn on. Try a large tooth rip saw first, then a crosscut then move on to a mitre box saw when you think you re ready.
> 
> If you already know how to sharpen saws, consider my unsolicited advice worth as much as you paid for it.
> 
> - Tim


I didn't post these pictures but while I was getting this saw I found a couple old Diston saws too I picked up. I paid $5 for the pair and $30 for the miter box. I grew up sharpening chain saws and bandsaws for my grandpa so I think this is a good next step. I also need to build myself a saw vise sometime.


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## paulm12

good find on the box, I use one all the time now. See this for good reference on setting up the Langdon, and shows what accessories (I think they came with the box, but often are lost). It also has other good references on the right side of the page.

https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/fettling


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That box is lucky to have you, ISU. Nice find, it's a solid tool.

I did some cutting with the Stanley 150 last night… For smaller stock, and with an 18" to 20" saw, it's a great bench top user.


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## bandit571

Jeff: In making the changes needed on that 358 mitre box….

Back keeper has been rotated around.

Have bought a 1/4" slab to replace the 1/2" thick deck….need to cut the dados, next.

As for the guide bars that will go in the dados…









I cut the leftover flat stock into these two bars. I drilled a hole into each, and ran a tap. The cylinders are cut down 1/2" x 4" hexhead bolts. Threaded into the flat bar, excess hacksawn off. grinder to smooth things out.

When I can get some space on the bench, I'll add the new deck, cut the dados, and slide these guides into place. maybe some of my infamous Witch's Brew as a finish on the deck?


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## bandit571

Ok, got the latch in the rear turned the way it is supposed to go. A new, thinner deck was cut to fit. Those holders made…...needed to chop a couple dados.









One down, one to go. Simple tools were used for the dados..









Mallet was around in back, where the second holder was stored…









Had both done fairly quickly…









Coat of BLO on the wood deck. Slide that big old saw back in place…









And call it done?


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## DanKrager

Looks really good, Bandit! If you don't already have one you'll find it very handy, especially if you have a shooting tray setup.

DanK


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## bandit571

Somehow, I have wound up with two of those big saws, just one has the rounded heel, the other has a straight heel. Both have an etch that say it was made by Disston & Sons expressly for this Stanley Mitre Box. Even gives the address for both companies. Both are 5" x 28" Disston No. 4s, 11ppi. One even has the disston logo on the spine….


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## bandit571

Picked a Stanley 150 today….









Just a dollar for the box. planes were an extra expense

Have started to tear it down to rehab it…









Was missing the thumbscrews. About half the wood screws to hold the chewed up deck are MIA. There is this weird little knob round in back..









Have no clue as to what it is for. Added a washer under under it, as the knob is a poor fit.

Old deck was just over 1/2" thick. Not sure what a new one should be. Arm swings freely, but has a slight wobble, any way to tighten the fit? Have added replacement thumbscrews, and tossed out that ugly bolt.

Might take a while, as the bench is full…..of both a Stanley 358, and a Buffalo Forge #50 post drill….


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## JethroBodean

Bandit
The deck on my 150, which appears to be original, is exactly 1/2" thick. With the back lower edge being beveled at 45 degrees to allow it to snuggle up tight to the back. As far as I can tell the button's purpose is to prevent the saw teeth from encountering any of the metal frame. 
I need to move to your neck of the woods, or drink the same water, or something. These are some GREAT finds you've been coming up with.


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## realcowtown_eric

buddy picked up a fox mitre trimmer, with cute little cam locks on the adjustable wings. If anybody is intereted can put you in touch. Probly north of 100 CDN ?75ish us$, but he never told me what he was askin.

Eric


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## bandit571

Stanley No. 150 is about ready…..









Red letters and all









Saw is one I had on hand. 









Looks a bit better, now?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks much better, Bandit. You might remember my search for a mid-length backsaw for the 150… 16" - 18" would be the most versatile saws, IMHO. That said, I love using the 20" Keen Kutter from LJ Warren with this box.


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## bandit571

I have an 18"....but the Medallion says ..Craftsman….

This little saw seems to be a nice fit, if one does a lot of trim work.


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## paulm12

Looks great Bandit. What prep/paint did you do on the metal?


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## bandit571

Wire wheel to bare metal…..Rustoleum rattlecan black. When dried, Duplicolour RED brushed on. The Duplicolour is what is used to fix scratches on a car's finish.

The Rustoleum seems to "bite' into the metal just fine. I keep the hands off as much as I can….saves getting them painted as well..

Usually a decent coat, allow to get sticky, then add a coat or two more. Trying for the look of a thick japanning.


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## paulm12

thanks. Couldn't tell if you used one of the hammer tone paints. I have an earlier MF 75 box that I am going to paint. Looking for ideas for that one on what to paint black and what to leave as cast.

Thanks again.


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## KentInOttawa

> I call this my mini miter box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More correctly it is AD McBurney #33 Corner Miter Clamp. I have it mounted to a board that can be clamped in my bench vise for use. Kevin(theoldfart) suggested I post it here in the hopes you all can steer me to the appropriate saw that would fit it for scale and purpose. Also posting in the saw thread.
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> - CFrye


Candy,

I'm not sure if you've found an answer to your question yet, but fellow LJ Notw posted this project last year. It was talked about briefly in this thread soon after that. It seems to me like it may have potential for the scale that you're doing:


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## bandit571

The "New" Mitrebox & Saw are now installed in the shop…









Had to move this one closer to the front of the cabinet…..28" saw is a little bit on the long side.

Stanley 358


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## KentInOttawa

I'm not sure if this is my "dream" miter box, but it's the one that I have. I recently picked up this later model Stanley 358.









From my web search ending here, here, and here, I've learned that this is probably a newer 358. The 28×5" Shurly & Dietrich saw has some Stanley references in the faint etch [more later] . These saws were sold with the 358 in Canada.









It has the bearings in the saw guides, which means it is post 1934. This is reinforced by the lack of any SW references anywhere on the saw.

I've been looking for clues to help me refine the date of manufacture to some a little more accurate than "between 1935 and 1972" ;-)

You can see that the adjuster for the bottoming spring and the depth stops are all common-head screws, unlike some on this thread that have thumb screws for the spring adjuster. I figured out that the reason for this is that on mine, the spring adjuster is threaded, and a thumb screw would interfere with its rotation.




























The spring on the back guide is missing, so you can clearly see that one (and only one) of the guides is threaded. Does anyone know what year Stanley implemented this change? How about a source for a replacement spring? An old valve spring, perhaps?

The saw itself has no engraving on the back, the saw nuts are pretty plain Jane "warranted superior" ones, and the etch is almost unreadable. I wasn't able to read any of it until I cleaned it up some (600 grit and 0000 steel wool), and even then I couldn't make any of it out until I started finding some "words" and putting parts of it together. Here's what it says, as best as I can tell:

*Stanley
MADE IN CANADA
Made* (exclusively for?)

*STANLEY TOOL COMPANY LIMITED
Roxton Pond…
SHURLY…
Galt
*



















As you can see, it produces nice cuts, despite being dirty, dull and having a rather chewed-up sacrificial board on it. These results are far superior to those produced by either my Delta tailed miter saw or anything I can do free-hand.

I'll be getting this saw professionally sharpened and, in time, I'll work at cleaning it up some more and maybe getting the tree and related parts for it. But for $65 delivered, it's a pretty good user as it is.


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## jwmalone

I found a nobex in a thrift store 15 bucks. First good mitre box I`ve ever owned its a nobex professional 80`s I believe cuts perfect doesn't track off line has a depth stop I love it. Of course that's after I took it apart and put it back together properly it had the owners manual with it someone put together wrong.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop




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## ToddJB

Well, ain't that a cute little booger. Similarly sized to a Stanley 150?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes it is, and I agree it's a cool little thing. Saw it yesterday, went back for it today. Need it like another hole in my head, but…

Never seen anything quite like it. Stamped, but very heavy gauge steel.

EDIT: Patented (No. 1,591,575) 06 July 1926, just over 90 years ago. By Donald B. Swain and assigned to the Millers Falls Company.


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## JethroBodean

A couple of months ago, I told you I found a rusty old Stanley 2360 without a saw. It is primarily a metal cutting mitre box that uses a hacksaw. As I bought it I was thinking, that among my 7 or 8 hacksaws, surely one of them would work. Wrong! Turns out the hacksaw needs to be full sized and non-adjustable. Well luck was with me, the other day at the local Habitat for Humanity ReStore I found just the item for $2. It is all metal, including the handle, with the only marking being 'BELL SYSTEM' stamped into the top bar. Over night in a bath of EvpoRust, then a wire brushing and it looks pretty good.










The rehab on the box itself was kept to a minimum, getting rid of the rust and putting on a new bed. Not sure how often I'll actually use this one, but I'm pleased with the end product.


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## DanKrager

JB, I didn't know there were such things as a metal cutting miter box! Super work getting these together. And thank you for sharing it!
DanK


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## onoitsmatt

Anyone know what this is? It is sitting outside at a local antique shop the only marking I found is the number 579 on both sides of the upper guide thingy.


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## JethroBodean

Matt
I think what you have there is a Union #2 Miter Box. I've only seen the pictures of one at the link below, but from what I can see they look the same. http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/an-interesting-miter-box/

Buy it, but it now.


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## onoitsmatt

Thanks for the link, Jeff. It is definitely very similar. No price on the one at the shop and didn't ask, as everything in this store was overpriced by 3 or 4 times its actual value.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Matt, that's a very unique=looking box. Wonder what the price would be?


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## onoitsmatt

I was going to ask about pricing. I knew it looked pretty cool and unlike any miter box I've seen before. But given pricing on the other tools (a rusty and splintered buck saw for $130 for instance) I figured there was no way I'd buy it on a lark at their prices. So I didn't bother asking. May get back there later to see what they want for it.


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## DLK

You will never know until you ask. Do be shy to ask for a discount or to offer a lower price. Should be able to easily get it for 10% less.


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## JethroBodean

So tell me, what you know about a L.W. Jacobs West miter box out of Willington CT.

I was trolling around eBay when I came across what at first glance appeared to be an unmarked Stanley 150, but somehow it didn't 'look' quite right. The seller called it a 'VINTAGE CAST IRON MITER BOX L.W. JACOBS WEST'. Sure enough the photo showed 'L.W. JACOBS WEST' cast into the underside.

Edit: Ok, I just figured out that the 'West' on the left side goes with 'Willington CT' that is cast on the right side.

Pictures below are from the ebay page. See how the front feet go out to the sides instead towards the front?



















So I went searching and found Patent 414544, from 1889,. and Patent 1248866, from 1917 both to Luman W. Jacobs. Looking over the drawings, I have to believe that the rights to this box must have been eventually sold to Stanley and became the 150. I'm just curious if anybody knows for sure if this is true? Does anybody know when Stanley began offering the 150?


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## donwilwol

According to Walters book, the #150 was offered in 1923 to 1969


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## JethroBodean

Well that certainly fits with both patent dates being before 1923. Thx Don.

So… now tell me more about this Walters book. (I know it not!)


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## donwilwol

They're not cheap


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## Mosquito

They can be very expensive… but there's supposed to be a second one coming out sometime "soon"...


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## donwilwol

I don't know Mos. I check the site every once in a while. Nothing has been updated since Jan.

http://stanleytoolsbook.com


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## Mosquito

it's true, that's why I said supposed to be and "soon" lol. I'm waiting, and check back every couple of months as well…


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## realcowtown_eric

as far as I know, the new edition of the walter'sbook is dead in the water….

Buddy picked one up off the LV clearance table locall for well under the 300 the hardcover seems to command.

I wish I had treated my HD covered autographed tome with more respects, but 20 years of thumbing thrugh has haken it's tool on the less than substantial binding. My 40 year old sellens book has survived with more integrity.

Bottom line…don't hold yer breathe.

Eric in Calgary


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## RWE

I haven t been able to determine anything about the miter frame, the only markings are on the guides… "Pat d-3-15-04"...









I have the same miter box. I am a new Lumberjocks member so I have to get five posts before I can message you. I was checking to see if you ever found out what type of miter box you have.


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## donwilwol

That is a stanley-bench-plane-typing patent,.

http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?pn=754625&id=24356


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## CFrye

Rehab on a Stanley No. 116 Mitre Box


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice job, Candy! Those are a couple of glamour shots, too.


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## CFrye

Thanks, Smitty. Glamour shots for tools? I like it!


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## copythat

Smitty,
I have the one you posted and it works fantastic. Couldn't be happier.


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## Tim457

Very nice, Candy. Did you fill the kerfs with black epoxy or something?


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## CFrye

Thanks, Tim. Walnut dust and CA glue. More details in the blog.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rob, good to hear! And if you get around to putting up some pics, know that we're always interested!


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## mramseyISU

So I found this Marsh Miter Box on craigslist. Are these worth anything? It's a 3 week old post but he only wants $20 for it so I figured I'd ask you guys if it's worth checking into. I don't really need it but I've spent $20 on dumber stuff before.


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## theoldfart

Looks like maybe a Marsh. They are used to cut 45 degree angles for picture framing. Somewhat specialized but if it's with a decent saw that's a good price.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes on the Marsh, for the reasons Kevin stated. And, I'm fascinated by the chest under the Marsh… those handles are identical to the ones on my toolchest. The color is even close to how mine began. Check it out, maybe come home with two finds!


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## theoldfart

Good eye Smitty, I missed it.


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## donwilwol

and i'm pretty sure they typically sell for much more, especially if it comes with the saw.


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## mramseyISU

Here's some better pictures of it. I think I'll give the guy a call about it tonight after work. I don't need it, I have a couple other miter boxes but I figured it was worth more than $20 just for the saw. It's funny because I'd been looking for months to find a decent miter box after my 10" crapsman slider decided to give me the middle finger and there have been 3 of them listed in the last 2 months. I ended up buying a mostly there Langdon with a saw for $30 and I spent $20 for a Stanley box that was complete except for the saw. Now there's also a really new Langdon with a saw for $50 that I'm considering calling about too.


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## Tim457

That's kind of how it goes. The handle on that saw is really nice. I'd have a hard time turning it down too. I think it will clean up really well.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The saw looks like a real winner, but I'm also drooling over the trunk it's sitting on…


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## mramseyISU

You people are enablers. You know that right.


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## Tim457

> The saw looks like a real winner, but I m also drooling over the trunk it s sitting on…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Absolutely. I need to see what is inside that trunk. With luck it has the whole set of tools inside it. I love buying full tool chests. Even if it's not full, it's in really good shape, maybe it has tills in good shape too.

Enablers? Who, us?


----------



## CL810

I'm with Smitty, GET THAT CHEST!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Waterloo isn't that far, if the chest is that good.


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## mramseyISU

> Waterloo isn t that far, if the chest is that good.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Come for the tool chest stay for the tractor museum.


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## mramseyISU

Well I called about it and he's still got it but he's out of town for a week. I'll report back with my findings.


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## Mosquito

Doin' work


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## Poa

First time poster here. Getting real interested in the Stanley boxes. Have a later model 246, complete, a 360, complete, and a 2358, complete. Also a Pratt no. 1285A, missing the stock rests. When get setup with photobucket, I'll post some pics. Trying to gather a parts inventory for restorations, and currently have a restored 2358 swing arm, missing a few parts, and a 360 swingarm, restored, with a good rear elevator post assembly, and a damaged front elevator post assembly with all its small parts, except the saw catch, that holds the saw to the top of the post. It is my intention to become a source for the Stanley box parts. Even the tables. When I make a table for one of my own restos, it doesn't make sense to run just one. I use clear poplar, and make five at a time. Have sold a couple on ebay. When I run out, I'll run five more. Anyway, I don't know why I'm so intriqued by these Stanley boxes, as it seems the Langdon's are far more popular. Haven't bought a Langdon yet…kinda scared to. I've got enough tool addictions as it is.


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## theoldfart

POA, welcome! Wondering when you'd get around to showing up


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## Tim457

Poa, I have a stanley 246 that I gave away a couple parts from and it wasn't perfectly complete to begin with. I could ship you everything but the base relatively cheaply, or all of it if you want it. Send me a message if you're interested. I'd like to get rid of it, but not just trash it. Somebody like you building parts inventory could probably make best use of it.


----------



## Poa

Tim…. Absolutely I am interested in the parts. The LJ protocol won't let me message you until I have 5 posts logged.

But you can email me at [email protected]


----------



## Poa

"POA, welcome!"

Thanks Kevin! Been reluctant to expand my time spent on this old tool thing. But, came to the conclusion that I enjoy it enough, and I'm old enough, that I might as well dive in head first. I look forward to participating here, and have thoroughly enjoyed TTT as well.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good to have you on this thread, POA. I'm thinking there are quite a few more you'll be finding as well.


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## Tim457

POA I sent you a message, I think you should be able to respond.


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## ADN

Here is mine, the saw is about 3' long with about 48" on the right and 40" on the left….

Decided on a dedicated station for this large MF, have a smaller one that is used as a portable one.










Regards,
Andy 
Mos Maiorum


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I've not seen a 36" inch mitre saw before. How long is it at the tooth line? Looks to be about 6" below the spine.


----------



## paulm12

Andy: can you take a few more pics of that box/table setup, I've been thinking of something like that too. Thanks.


----------



## ADN

The saw plate is around 32" x 6" it will literally cut thicker stock ithan my 12" power miter….

Will get some more pictures up tomorrow.

Mos Maiorum


----------



## donwilwol

POA and I have been trying to find a reasonable way to ship these things. USPS pricing is screwy.


----------



## Tim457

Andy that's pretty cool, I don't think I've seen a mitre station setup for a mitre box.

Don, I'm assuming it will ship a bit cheaper if it's taken apart, but I didn't check into it.


----------



## Poa

As far as shipping goes, the Stanleys one piece cast frame is the issue that drives the cost up. There is simply no way to fit it into a priority mail shipping box. I just shipped a Stanley 358 with saw, and by the time I had a box bought, packing, and shipping cost went up to close to 75 bucks, Fedex ground. Other boxes, that have a removable back fence, such as a Goodell Pratt or Millers Falls "All Steel", can get in a large priority mail shipping box, (sans saw), which gets the cost down to around twenty bucks. But you have to dismantle them pretty completely. I feel for those ebayers listing these Stanleys, not realizing shipping cost. Just last week I bought an immaculate No. 2358, with its original Disston 5×28, including shipping, for 20 bucks less than the guy could ship it for. Of course I made it right with him, but when surfing boxes on ebay, one finds quite a few that have seriously under priced shipping costs.


----------



## Poa

Hmmmm….just remembered. I'd love to score a couple of the Stanley saw stops, that attach to the spine of the back saw. If anyone has an extra they wanna part with, please message me. Purchase, or trade.

Also, I don't remember the details, but when I apprenticed, the miter box we used for installations had a carrying case, shop built, that unfolded into extension tables both to left and to right. Wish I could remember the exact configuration, but that was close to fifty years ago. I've been playing with some sketches, and think I've come up with a couple feasable designs. But weight is an issue, so I need to refine them. I'm thinking 3/8" baltic birch ply for the main structure, but may have to use 1/2" because of the beating a jobsite miter box takes in the process of transporting and setup.


----------



## ADN

Here are a few more photos, wanted the functionality of a dedicated power miter saw station, and it works great. Used Incra T track and the base is cabinet grade 3/4 plywood, and the fence is just MDF. Just used scraps of 2×4 to attach it to the wall. This is my new handicap accessible shop attemp, notice that the saw can be used from a wheelchair if need be…..


----------



## duckmilk

That is a very nice setup Andy. Even without being handicapped, there is a ton of storage under the top. Good job!


----------



## ADN

Thanks, designed with the plan to store stuff under the top level, and to store (temp) project lumber between fence and wall, and it works well…..

Some day T tracks are going to be added to the top of each fence.


----------



## mramseyISU

So I picked up that Marsh last weekend. It's pretty interesting. First time I've heard of the saw company, it's a Richardson Brothers.


----------



## theoldfart

That Richardson is a great find by itself.


----------



## Poa

Wow…..that Richardson sure has an impressive handle shape. Gotta love that long upper horn. I've had my eyes peeled for one of those picture frame Marshes, but haven't ran across one in my price range. I wonder, if they were sold with saws, or not. I have seen a whole range of manufacturers paired with the Marsh units. I wonder too, if Marsh called these fixtures "miter box", or if they used a different term to describe their product.

On a different note, I am thinking about getting serious about building a strong inventory of pre 1960s miter box parts, for the user and collector. I've begun, as a feeler, to peddle a few parts on ebay, to see if there's an interest. If the amount of "watchers" is any indication, there may well be. But its too early to tell if these watchers are potential buyers, or just curious. I have moved a couple of repop poplar tables I have fabricated. I'm kinda curious what you guys think about the idea, so feel free to check out my ebay thing, and throw some feedback at me if you are so inclined. I peddle my stuff there under the monicker "poaintehach52". Also, if you have, or run across boxes with busted main frames or swingarms, I'd be interested in maybe purchasing parts off them. I'm not very interested in being party to cannibalizing good complete boxes though. I'd rather be putting them back in service than I would taking them out of service. Kinda like a miter box wrecking yard, eh?


----------



## mramseyISU

@Poa don't hate me but I picked that thing up for $15.


----------



## theoldfart

hate you, hate you, hate you….well not really. Great snag.


----------



## Poa

15 bucks. Yikes. That'd be more than a fantastic and incredible score if it was the fixture, or the saw, alone.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No word on that blue chest it was sitting on?


----------



## mramseyISU

> No word on that blue chest it was sitting on?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I was going to check on that too but the day I went to look at it the guy was gone. He left this thing sitting on his front step and said it I wanted it leave the money in the cupholder of the truck in the driveway. Weird deal, I would have loved to have looked at that chest too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awww… we'll never know. Guess we can make up our own stories about it.


----------



## ToddJB

haha… He must trust you… because you're an engineer.


----------



## CL810

Is this the blue chest with a complete set of type 6 Bedrocks, Harvey Peace rip and xcut saws, DT saw, and a set of Stanley 750 chisels that was listed for $75?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ That's the one. Too bad he sold the #9 with hot dog attachment that was in it separately, the day before, for $25.


----------



## Poa

Just picked up this SW No. 50-1/2, complete, except for one of the pointed screws thay comes through the fence to stop your stock from slipping. Also, no saw. Anyone know what saw originally came with this box? I'm pretty sure it would have been a 4", and my guess would be a 22", or 24". I'd like to find out, because I like to match the proper saw with the boxes I restore.

This is the first No. 50 -1/2 I have looked at. My first impression is positive. For a small low end box, it seems pretty well made, and pleasantly simple. I note, surfing Ebay, that there seems to be two main frames that were used on this box over the years. One style like mine, with the solid arched front section with the badge on it, and another style that had openings on the front section, and is badged on the end of the box. I have noted both styles with SW badging, so the transition must have been within the "SW era". Not sure which style is older. Any info would be appreciated. There seems to be color variations as well. Some are red, some are silver, and like this box, two toned, silver and blue.

I will be restoring this box in tandem with a No. 360 I recently procured. Also, am beginning to get emails requesting parts for these Stanley boxes. Guide bearings, stock rests, and repeat cut stops seem to be the most sought after parts, so far. I look forward to expanding my inventory of parts. Being instrumental in putting these boxes back in service, complete, is pretty satisfying. I know what it feels like to finally find a part needed to complete a restoration.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice #50 1/2, poa! My c-1922 Catalogue No. 34 says the 50 1/2 came with no saw. The 60 1/2 did; a 20×4.


----------



## Poa

Ha!! I was just coming here to say "AHA!" , with the info you just supplied. Yep. Its on page 132 in the 1934 catalogue.

I'm kinda suprised at the 20 " length. Seems short to me, but not having a 20 incher, its kinda hard to say. I wonder if the 20s were signed on the etch as "miter box saw" like the larger ones were. I don't think I've ever seen that etch on a shorter back saw. I know I've never seen a 20" with a Sweetheart etch.


----------



## Poa

Some valuable trivia on the saw issue. According to the Disstonian website, all the Disston manufactured Stanley miter box saws were designated as No. 4s, no matter their size or vintage. All were 11 point. Over time, changes occured to the handle shape, but not much else changed in the manufacture of the No. 4s. The 18" No. 4, and the 20" No. 4 were only manufactured with a 4" plate. Sizes above 20" were offered in 4", 5", and 6" plate size.

In the case of the 50-1/2 and 60-1/2 miter box, they were designed to be used with either a miter box saw, or a panel saw. The rear saw guides have holes where a nail is to be inserted if using a panel saw, which stops the saw from exiting the guide prematurely.


----------



## Poa

Here are the 50-1/2 elevator posts. You can note the holes in the rear post, provided to insert a nail when using a panel saw. Like the larger boxes, the posts are designed to be pivoted to accomodate the saw's plate thickness. Unlike the larger boxes, there are no bearings in the guides to carry the saw spine. Also, unlike the larger boxes, there is no provision for squaring the elevator posts to the table, vertically.

Also, as an edit of my prior post, (too late to actually edit it), I wasn't thinking when I said "which stops the saw from exiting the guide prematurely". This was hogwash, advanced without reflection. The nail actually serves the purpose of stopping the saw plate from being all the way up into the guide where the spine recess is.


----------



## Poa

So….heres the swingarm details on the 50-1/2 and 60-1/2. Of course, the machining and finish is not as clean as on the higher end Stanley boxes. I had a very hard time loosening the king screw to remove the swingarm from the frame. The tapped hole for the king screw, in the frame, is exposed, and fills with sawdust. I suspect, this harbors moisture, which migrates downwards into the threads, locking the king screw. It took a night's soak with a rust buster, extensive tapping with a light hammer, a very large screwdriver, and a crescent wrench on the screwdriver shank to bust it loose.

Basically, it is a simplified rendition of the swingarms used on the larger boxes. There is still an adjustment for the preset pin, exactly like the adjustment on the larger boxes. But there is no spring loaded tensioning provision for locking the swingarm between presets. This is accomplished by a screw, topside, that tightens against the face of the frame. To completely dismantle the swingarm for derusting, cleaning, painting, etc, it is neccessary to drive out a drift pin on the preset plunger pin. Locking the elevator posts in a slightly swiveled position to accomodate saw plate thickness is simply done by tightening the lock screws that compress the split elevator post sockets on the swingarm.

Also…experimented on the badge a bit. What seems to work really really well is lightly scrubbing with ultra-fine steel wool wetted with WD-40


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## Mosquito

that's a cool little box

(Also, I REALLY wish LJ would fix the oversized image issues… it's easy)


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Since Don and poa and TOF are here, and mos and anyone in mpls/stpaul are local, I might as well sign up. Kinda can't follow talking to mos in youtube comments too well anyway, haha.

I've got three boxes myself, but no proper pics, yet. A WWII era MF Langdon Acme 73A with an Atkins saw missing only its length stops now, one of those Craftsman 107-36500 ones with WS saw that's really an Acme 75 that's complete except for the thumbscrews for the depth stops, and a Stanley 2246 that…seems complete but has a big ol' 30s Disston. I don't know much about it.

Just felt the need to post!


----------



## Poa

Glen….its my understanding that the 4 digit boxes, such as "2246" were introduced to cut down on the complexity, and number of parts, of the 3 digit boxes, such as the "246". The difference is the elevator posts, being either double rod, (246), or single (2246). My 1934 catalogue does not list the 4digit boxes, so I imagine they came out later. I have no idea how to date these boxes. Sure would like to find out.


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## RonAylor1760

Sorry, Smitty … but you know I had to do this, right?




























Mitre block (box) of my dreams … the one I made!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ron, I have an image in my mind's eye of the whole photo scene, staged in your shop (under candle light), to get a spread done that features this most galootish 'box' against a cordovan backdrop.

Classic. I love it!

(now go get yourself a vintage Langdon!)


----------



## Poa

Oh my gosh, Ron. Thats amazing. I see it does compound miters too. Have you considered how handy a brick would be as a repetitive cut stop?


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## bandit571

Sometimes, you just need a smaller mitre box..









Newer saw. Called a GEM Mitre Box. 









Mainly for the days when I can't get to the Stanley No. 358 back there…

(BTW: see how many other toys you can ID…)


----------



## theoldfart

Hi Glen, welcome.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ditto, welcome!

Stanley No. 346 not getting much use these days.










I use the 150 a lot…


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## theoldfart

Smitty, that 77 looks dusty and lonely so send it over here.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If I did that, then suddenly needed several running ft of 3/8" dowel, what would I do???


----------



## theoldfart

Oh well, I tried. There is a 77 for 285 w/a 3/8" die. Price wise good or bad?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Glen….its my understanding that the 4 digit boxes, such as "2246" were introduced to cut down on the complexity, and number of parts, of the 3 digit boxes, such as the "246". The difference is the elevator posts, being either double rod, (246), or single (2246). My 1934 catalogue does not list the 4digit boxes, so I imagine they came out later. I have no idea how to date these boxes. Sure would like to find out.
> 
> - Poa


I'll look up the medallion on the saw I got with it to be sure…of the saw, at least! I can't remember if it said "H. Disston & Sons" or just "Disston," but the bottom is "Philada."


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## GlenintheNorth

> Hi Glen, welcome.
> 
> - theoldfart


Hi Kevin!


----------



## Poa

Glen…the saw won't tell you anything about the box. That box was sold with a 4" x 26", so yours is not the original saw.


----------



## Poa

I must say I am heartened by the last few posts. It is indeed gratifying to know that I'm not the only one that thinks that if I stack enough old tools on top of each other, they will begin to fornicate, and thus reproduce.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's a fair price Kevin. The #77 shipped 'standard' with the 3/8" cutter btw.

EDIT: Poa, how long will it take to work?


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Smitty


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Glen…the saw won t tell you anything about the box. That box was sold with a 4" x 26", so yours is not the original saw.
> 
> - Poa


Except that it is a 4×26.


----------



## RonAylor1760

> Ron, I have an image in my mind s eye of the whole photo scene, staged in your shop (under candle light), to get a spread done that features this most galootish box against a cordovan backdrop.
> 
> Classic. I love it!
> 
> (now go get yourself a vintage Langdon!)
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop





> Oh my gosh, Ron. Thats amazing. I see it does compound miters too. Have you considered how handy a brick would be as a repetitive cut stop?
> 
> - Poa


Thanks, guys. LOL! Poa, actually I use an old Greenall's Gin bottle as a repetitive cut stop … my thinking is, if I'm over working the saw the bottle will break! But, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Poa

Glen….Don't know why, but thought your saw was a 28". I always manage to stick my foot in my mouth when I tap into my amazing powers of clairvoyancy. Its one of the drawbacks of being consistently wrong.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Glen….Don t know why, but thought your saw was a 28". I always manage to stick my foot in my mouth when I tap into my amazing powers of clairvoyancy. Its one of the drawbacks of being consistently wrong.
> 
> - Poa


Lol. I WISH it was a 28"! 26 is too short! Once I get going I pull the toe of the saw straight out of the rear guide…


----------



## Poa

Glen…..see that little hole in the end of the spine? You can stick a nail in it.

Better, the saw/box we used at the shop I apprenticed in had a red dot on the top of the saw's spine, put there by the shop owner. It told you when to end your back stroke, when it met the guide. It served to refresh your rythym when you hadn't used the box for a week, or month or whatever. After 20 minutes or so of using the dot, you got your rythm back, and pulling out of the guide wasn't likely.

Also, Stanley made a clamp that goes on the end of the spine. But I have never actually seen one other than in pictures. I'd love to get one, just because.


----------



## theoldfart

POA and Glenn, be careful when using the nail hole. If the saw is too short you'll wind up mis aligning the post or worse snapping it off. Better to get a longer saw. Just take a look at the number of mitre boxes out there with posts welded!

POA, that Traut patent box we had been watching is back up on flea bay at the same price! The seller is stubborn.


----------



## bandit571

Happen to have a "spare" Disston No.4 28" x 5" in the shop. Both have the "made for Stanley Mitre box.." etch.

When I picked my 358 last spring, it came with 4 saws. Sold the two with the rounded heels, and kept the two with the squared heels. 









Here is three of the four saws. The fourth is in the 358 mitre box.


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## KentInOttawa

TOF - Good point on the potential damage when using the nail as a stop.

I've even inserted a nail on my 28" saw in a 358 mitre box. When you stroke the blade too far it makes an awfully unpleasant racket! This is a good thing because it's an immediate form of feedback which will train you to take shorter strokes and avoid all that unpleasant noise. And it won't take long :-D


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## Mosquito

When I first started using my miterbox (and still from time to time) I'd occasionally pull the saw out of the back guide. Sort of annoying to have such a long saw that requires such a short stroke lol Those poor teeth at either heal never get used… so now I'm thinking, why bother sharpening them? All we need is the plate and spine after-all.


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## ToddJB

Mos, on my big miter saw the didn't even put teeth on the first 6" of the saw.


----------



## Wood1Hawk

Im using one of those, bought it a couple months ago.

Its actually pretty well made in my opinion and the blade does stay true. Ive used it probably 100 times and had a nice clean cut every time if memory serves me right.

As for storage i keep it on a shelf in the shed now because i got fed up taking it apart.



> An awesome restore, Don. Anyone using one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder if the blade stays true or wants to skew of line in thicker stuff?
> 
> For storage, is open shelves the way? Draws? Or ? Don, where s yours live between uses?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


----------



## Poa

Well….hmm…seeing as how we are confessing our deviance from the old miter saw afficianado credo, my jobsite miters are made with a 10" Festool power miter, for fine inside work. For outside work, such as deckwork, handrails, framing, I use a 12" makita.

(But don't tell anyone.)


----------



## theoldfart

You realize the the devil has a tail too, beware!


----------



## JethroBodean

Another simple trick to prevent pulling the saw out of the back guide is to set the saw guides to the narrowest possible setting for the piece being cut. Almost every Stanley or GP box I ever see has the front guide setup for the maximum separation from the back guide, moving the front post to the narrowest setting allows for a longer stroke. As a side benefit, the narrow setting also provides a slightly more accurate cut by reducing the saw's wiggle room.



> Also, Stanley made a clamp that goes on the end of the spine. But I have never actually seen one other than in pictures. I d love to get one, just because.
> 
> - Poa


Are you talking about the 'trigger' that goes near the handle end of the spine, to trip the front saw guide, or is there a clamp that I've never seen that is for the toe end of the spine?









BTW: poa, I've checked out some of your parts on ebay. We may need to do some talking, I have needs. Specifically front & back GP guides for a 4" saw. I have a pair of 4" Langdon guides that had been put into a GP box.


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## Mosquito

Good tip, Jeff. I'll have to give that a look when I get home, as truthfully I'm not sure where mine are set up.


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## Poa

Jethro….Message me about what you need. Currently I only have one GP guide, the one on the incomplete box listed on ebay. Funny you mention it, because just a few minutes ago the 2358 guides sold. I do believe I know where to get another batch of parts for a GP though, not sure of the size. Also, live and learn. I've never seen that release clamp. Was it supplied with the Stanley boxes? I'd love to get my hands on a couple of those. Or a dozen…or…

And the clamp I've seen pics of ain't the same thing. The ones I've seen more resemble a stair clamp, like you put on your rafter square when laying out step stringers. I just assumed they were Stanley made. (But I have been known to be wrong. Only six or seven times a day, though.)










Heres the 50-1/2, well into its rebirth. I usually like to stick with original colors, but the frame color on this box was so awfully buttugly that I just couldn't bring myself to matchin' it. And no over the counter blue matched the original posts, arms, and legs color. Not wanting to drag out the cup gun and my UTCs, I opted to exercise a bit of aesthetic license. No matter, I see the box as a user anyway, not a shelf piece.


----------



## bandit571

That 358 box I have has two spots to attach the front guides at….currently it is set up with the longer spacing.


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## GlenintheNorth

I'll take a look at the guides. I may have them too far out, but I thought I had them butted up as short as they would go. Either way, I used the Acme just tonight to make a rake and fleam guide for saw sharpening. I love having something accurate enough to do things like that at my fingertips. Sometimes I even get to make stuff rather than mess with mineral spirits and steel wool on occasion.

And…THE HANDLE ON MY SAW BROKE!!! To be fair, it is an old old user replacement that was in horrific shape. It split right in the middle. Time to make a new one - I need to find some apple.


----------



## duckmilk

> I must say I am heartened by the last few posts. It is indeed gratifying to know that I m not the only one that thinks that if I stack enough old tools on top of each other, they will begin to fornicate, and thus reproduce.
> 
> - Poa





> EDIT: Poa, how long will it take to work?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


It is my understanding Smitty that different tools have variable gestation lengths, similar to the difference between a rabbit and an elephant.


----------



## duckmilk

Glen, you might be able to find some apple if you post a question over on the saw thread.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/27984


----------



## Mosquito

The 2017 Calendar has now been created and published!




  






More and Ordering Information Can Be Found Here


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## JoeLyddon

Very COOL calendar…

Does LumberJocks.com share in any of the proceeds?


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## Mosquito

LumberJocks does not, Zazzle does, unfortunately

When we first put together a calendar in 2013 it was mostly those of us who regularly contribute in the Handplanes of your Dreams thread, as far as images go. I had thought about doing a bulk order to get more of a discount, and having people sign up/opt in by a deadline, place the order, and distribute them once they got in to help reduce cost. The problem with that was, what if people wanted different sizes? What if people thought they wanted them, but decided otherwise and never paid? What if people didn't see it before the order but still wanted one? Do I order extras just in case? But then I'd end up with extras that I don't need, and have to eat the cost. Would also have to deal with calculating shipping, and I'd have to package them all up and ship them out myself, etc.

Doing some research I found this site, which allowed people to create things (not just calendars), and share them publicly for others to buy however many they want, in their prescribed sizes. Zazzle prints them as they're ordered, and ships them out. MUCH easier logistically.


----------



## theoldfart

You mean I don't get royalties? I'm shocked! Not really, more like flattered. Mis, I am quite impressed with your layout and design, we all owe ya'. Is beer ok?


----------



## Mosquito

Beer is fine, but then you'll have to stop by and drink it for me lol


----------



## theoldfart

I was hoping you'd say that


----------



## CFrye

Calendar looks great, Mos! I am honored to have my mitre box restore in it!


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## Mosquito

I thought the epoxy filled saw kerfs in the original bed was a great idea! It's really cool


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Nice calendar!


----------



## Poa

So…....has anyone here ever ran into problems with tuning the No. 150? I have one I've cleaned up to the point of just needing to add a new table. But I can't seem to square the saw plate/table 90° angle. My suspicion is that it was used consistently out of adustment, causing the left hand guide plate to wear at an angle (1st pic). I also note that the casting that holds the guides can be held at slightly different angles when you lock it with the thumbscrew (2nd pic). This lateral slop means that you would need to square it to the table everytime you adjust the height. Bottom line, perhaps this box simply saw too much use, and is worn out. It suprises me, because I have read good things about these little 150s.




























.


----------



## DanKrager

Poa, I have no experience with these things, but my first impression was that this is perhaps another good place for surface flattening. Perhaps it is worn beyond recovery, in which case I (not a collector) would be tempted to laminate some JBweld to it and flatten that. Then a good coat of slip plate (paint used in dump wagons to make the load slide out cleanly). That would absorb the wear and be renewable.

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'll have to take a look at your pics later tonight (can't see them on this PC) to get a clear idea what you're talking about. I have a #150 that has an adjuster thumbscrew I think is too short, but otherwise performs quite well. Just added a back roller ball too, so I'm pretty certain it's complete.

More to come.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa
There are screws on the back of the right hand plate for making adjustments. You might be interested to take a look at this 150 instructions from the good people at Bad Axe.


----------



## bandit571

Had too many mitre boxes in the shop..









Cleaned up nicely..


----------



## Poa

Jethro….yes, I'm aware of the adjustments. I can get the saw plate at a 90 to the table chasis, but when I finally get it there the guides pinch the saw plate too tight. I think I'll get the new table milled and installed, then futz some more with it. Pretty sure the left hand guide plate is simply worn out. Just recieved the saw for the No. 50-1/2. Wasn't able to locate a Disston/Stanley SW 4×20 for it. But was able to locate a Disston No. 4 in the 4×20 size. Actually, the No. 4 is probably more "correct" anyway, as the 50-1/2s weren't sold with a saw. I'm getting kinda hooked on these Stanley boxes. Enjoy working on them.


----------



## Poa

Got some 2358 parts in the mail today, a complete swingarm assembly. Only damaged piece is one of the guide bearings. But…on to the point. As I was dissassembling it for its evaporust soak, I chanced to compare it to another 2358 swingarm that I have. Assuming they would be identical, I discovered differences in the main casting. I won't at this time describe the differences, because I want to more closely compare the two, and take some measurements. The newly acquired swing arm assembly is the lighter blue color, so I'm assuming it is a fairly late issue. I am beginning to realize that dating these boxes is going to be a real challenge. But it is probably a challenge I need to pursue, if I really want to build a parts inventory thats well described and based in knowledge of the various differences, as well as the inter-changeability of the various parts.

So….I am hoping that I can enlist the help of others here that are interested in these Stanley miter boxes, and would like to see the creation of a source for replacement parts. Initially, it'd be nice if those of you possessing one or more of these Stanley boxes would let me know what model you have, what color it is, what the logo looks like, and any clue you may have as to vintage. Also, I do not have a Walters book, and I am a bit curious. Does he get into the boxes much, as far as vintages, changes, etc?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

If I get a chance I'll finally photograph the beast I came across. I know I've said I would before but I really really mean it that I will.


----------



## Poa

Well, apparently, the single elevator post style Stanley box was patented in the early thirties.

https://search.rpxcorp.com/pat/US1952518A1

I currently have two No. 2358 swingarms. I am assuming that they are two different vintages. Although the locking mechanisms are identical, as are all the dimensions, there are two differences of note.

The bearings in the heads of the elevator posts are of two styles. On the left you see what I am assuming is the later model swingarm. Note that the bearing is composed of three pieces…an axle/stud, the bearing, and the threaded fixture the screws into the elevator post head. On the right, (the earlier swingarm assembly), you can see that the bearing, "axle", and threaded fixture seem to be integral. I would assume the bearing on the later vintage swingarm simplified the manufacturing process. The bearings seem to be the same dimension, so I imagine that the two styles are perfectly interchangable





































The other difference is the mounting boss for the elevator height stop. The earlier vintage swingarm has a serrated boss, that engages serrations on the hieght stop. The later vintage swningarm has a smooth boss, with raised ridges top and bottom, that "traps" a serrated and nickel plated plate that engages the height stop.

Why does it matter? Well, seeing as how the height stops are one of the commonly missing pieces of the Stanley boxes, whan seeking a replacement piece, you need to know which style you have, to determine if you need the small serrated plate, or not.

Edit: I have no idea how to rotate the images.


----------



## Poa

Uh oh….missed a coupla differences these two swingarms exhibit. (Am I boring anyone yet?) Both differences have to do with the main castings. Rather than indulge myself with a long winded description of those differences, I'll let the pics provide a more direct description. I would only add that the later casting is not near as clean and refined as the earlier casting.



















Also…. (Surely this last bit will bore you to distraction)...the earlier swingarm has a flat indicator plate, whereas the later swingarm has the raised and pointed indicator plate. And, lastly….the elevator posts on the later model are plated and polished, and on the earlier model, they are painted below the cap detail.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm not bored at all.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

This is that ugly blue you were talking about…


----------



## Poa

Well….Glen, it ain't nearly as ugly as that grayish beige the No. 50 1/2 was sporting before I gave it a facelift. Theres gotta be some sort of rhyme and reason to these various colors. Almost assuredly it has to do with vintage, but how to sort it all out is kinda bafflin'. One thing is for sure, ain't gonna do it without community feedback.


----------



## terryR

> I m not bored at all.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Agreed. Just having difficulties keeping up with all the new data.


----------



## Poa

This is a keeper….

http://thevalleywoodworker.blogspot.com/2016/02/all-about-mitre-box-part-2-saws.html?m=1


----------



## CL810

Thanks for posting the line Poa!


----------



## Poa

Still actively pursuing a parts inventory for Stanley miter saws. Particularly looking for cut stop pieces, and stock rests, which seem to be the major delinquent components that have leaped into the abyss. So please, in your travels, when you run across these boxes, particularly ones that are incomplete, or damaged, keep in mind my efforts.


----------



## Poa

Ok….so now I'm seeking info on the No. 358. Interested in vintage range, and whether or not the No. 358 had any changes during its production period. Of note, that I have not noticed on other boxes, is that the right hand rod on both front and rear elevator post is calibrated in 1/16" calibrations, from 0 to 7". Also, the guides do not have saw spine bearings. Any info on the No. 358 would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## bandit571

The guides on my 358 do indeed have saw spine bearings, one per side, means two for the front guides, and two in the back guides. Haven't noticed any markings on any of the rods. I can go back to the shop and check, if you want.









These the rods?









This is how mine came into the shop.


----------



## bandit571

Hopefully, I got clear enough pictures. 









Front guides. I didn't find any markings on the rods, though.

Another shot of the guides..









This time showing ( I hope) the guide bearings in the rear guides.

Might as well include a shot of the saw?









Has a Disston etch on the spine, and a "Made expressly for" etch on the plate. 
This 358 also has two locations for the front guides to sit in, in case you have a shorter saw.









Any other shots you want? Be more than happy to provide them.


----------



## Poa

Thanks Bandit.

Interesting. So obviously the 358s DID in fact go through changes. I see a few differences between the 358 I have, and yours. Currently, I have mine completely torn down for cleaning, derusting, and repainting. When I have it back together I'll post pics, and get into a bit of specific comparison with yours.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a pair of 358's that are a few years apart, and have some differences, though not anything hugely major I'd say. Anyone know of a type study or something close on them? Now I'm curious (for no reason other than just being curious)


----------



## Poa

So far, I note a number of differences in the elevator post assemblies between Bandits No. 358 and my own.

Specifically, my assemblies do not have a threaded post rod. As purchased, the Stanley boxes like Bandit's had the shock spring on the left hand unthreaded rod, and the threaded rod on the right, so you could raise or lower the brass guide stop by turning it around the rod. On my post assembly, the rod itself is calibrated in 1/16" increments, up to 7", and the brass guide stop is raised or lowered into position by utilizing a thumbscrew. Also, as mentioned above, there are no saw spine bearings in my guides. Further, the mounting blocks on my guides appear to be castings that have been machined, whereas Bandit's has the fully machined mounting blocks, if my eyes aren't decieving me. Lastly, the knurled capscrews that attach the posts to the swingarm, on my box, are simply knurled, with no slot, and have holes bored in the sides of the cap, to serve as a manner of tightening, with a nail, punch, whatever. I have utilized a No. 360 post assembly in the pics, next to my 358, to illustrate the differences. I am pretty sure that Bandit's post assembly is near identical to the 360, except for height dimensions.


----------



## KentInOttawa

POA - here's a link to my post on my 358.

There's a link in there to a discussion on OldTools Archive about a proposal to start a Type Study on the Stanley mitre boxes. It has a lot of good info that you're interested in. Of note to me were the references on the bearings (about 1934). I also noticed that you have some thumb screws on your adjusters that my 358 doesn't have.

FWIW, I still haven't installed the spring I got from you on the back rod.


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## Poa

To my knowledge, Kent, the spring was only placed on the left hand unthreaded front rod. I may be wrong, and will double check.


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## bandit571

Mine has a spring on both the front and back un-threaded rods. Wouldn't do to have the saw bounce off the deck, for a lack of a spring. As to left or right rod…..a simple twist change that. Mine were set up to be able to adjust the tilt of the saw better….I can access the bolts better.


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## Poa

Yes…I found it. If you look at this Stanley sheet, it pictures both front and rear assembled post assemblies. Note the spring placement. Also, this particular sheet seems to picture the post assembly that my 358 has, with the calibrated rod.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tjKWcdTqWyc/Vrny2AlfQ8I/AAAAAAAAH-0/3PxxXV97Ox0/s1600/Stanley%2Bmb3.png

Edit. On second thought, upon examination, the sheet seems to picture two separate types of post assemblies. So, you could interpret this sheet as implying that both front and rear assemblies get the spring. However, I have purchased over six boxes in the last few months, and all of them only had one spring. I'm real curious now. Does anyone have a box that has a spring on both post assemblies?


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## Poa

Try as I might, after a 45 minute internet search, I can find no pictures of a spring mounted on the rear posts. However, there are plenty of pictures of Stanley boxes, but not many that show the backside. The 358 and the 346A I received Saturday, both complete and original, as far as I know, had only the one spring. As did my 244, my 246, and my 360. Its important to remember, that you are rarely lowering your saw onto an empty table. Usually, you will be lowering it onto a piece of stock you will be cutting. So, as a shock absorber, the spring would be pretty worthless, because your saw will engage the stock before the guide engages the spring.


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## bandit571

Mine came with the rear spring, as bought.


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## KentInOttawa

> Yes…I found it. If you look at this Stanley sheet, it pictures both front and rear assembled post assemblies. Note the spring placement. Also, this particular sheet seems to picture the post assembly that my 358 has, with the calibrated rod.
> 
> https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tjKWcdTqWyc/Vrny2AlfQ8I/AAAAAAAAH-0/3PxxXV97Ox0/s1600/Stanley%2Bmb3.png
> 
> Edit. On second thought, upon examination, the sheet seems to picture two separate types of post assemblies. So, you could interpret this sheet as implying that both front and rear assemblies get the spring. However, I have purchased over six boxes in the last few months, and all of them only had one spring. I m real curious now. Does anyone have a box that has a spring on both post assemblies?
> 
> - Poa


My saw does not have any graduations marked on it. Also, unlike your saw, mine doesn't have the thumbscrew on the "Right Saw Guide Stop and Screw" (part #134).

In the following document (unknown vintage, assumed to be post-1934 because of the reference to the bearings), the instruction for adjusting the "Left or Permanent Stops" seems to imply that there *may* be spring both front and rear, ala Bandit's box. Apparently, technical writing hasn't improved (or degraded) any in the last 80 years or so.



















From this document: "When the Mitre Box leaves the factory the Left or Permanent Stops on the threaded Uprights are set correctly, but the Right Stops are set high, to prevent the saw from marring the Board before the Mitre Box reaches the customer, and they should be dropped down before using the Mitre Box".

I need to replace the wooden Board on my mitre box before I adjust it according to these instructions. That WILL take a while before I can get to it. Then I can see what difference a second spring will make.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've got a version of that card (original, not reprint) and will check it tonight if I remember.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Post #302 has additional close-up pics you might be interested in, POA.


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## Poa

Smitty, thanks. That posting answered a question I had about whether or not a knurled cap screw was used to secure the tie bar,and apparently it is original. Unfortunately my 358 only has one of them, the other was replaced with a standard screw. Also, I am missing one of the thumbscrews for the rear brass saw height stop, which, too has a replacement standard screw. Did you notice the 358 at the #302 posting has legs that are not configured for the cut stop components? The variations in color and components on these boxes is astounding. I doubt a guy will ever get a handle on dates, types, changes, etc. with any real accuracy.


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## onoitsmatt

*My Boy Blue*
I was looking for a spindle sander on craigslist and stumbled onto an ad for a spindle sander, mortising machine and "Heavy Hand Miter Saw" which I had never heard of. Pictured in the ad was this:









Which looked like a pretty good miter box. It wasn't too far away, and he was only asking $15 for it, so I texted to go have a look.

Turned out to be a Millers Falls 74 with the original saw. It is all painted blue, as you can clearly see. 









No stone unturned:









It is missing several pieces. I have another similar vintage 74 that I could never find a saw for that fits it. The other box isn't painted blue and is much more complete but has a weld on the underside of it.










But I'm happy that the original Disston saw that came with this blue one fits my old box too. So may use one for parts to complete the other or something. Anyone have suggestions on how to remove the blue paint from this guy? Wire brush ok or is that too harsh?

Here's the etch from the saw (saw is missing one nut but has all the screws). Medallion is the 1896-1917 one based on Disstonian Institute medallion reference.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Matt, that's an outstanding find for $15! I'm not one that's removed paint in a situation like yours, so can't offer any insight there. Wish folks around here listed "Heavy Hand Miter Saws" every now and then.


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## FrankonThetis

This is my collection of mitre boxes and saws. Stanley 358, Miller Falls 73A, Stanley 100 and a Goodell Mfg. Rescued the Goodell from a local Antique store using it as an outside doorstop. Restoring the 358 and still some fine tuning and the MF & Stanley 100 useable as purchased.


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## FrankonThetis

Posted earlier about my mitre box collection. The Goodell is in rough shape, 1 leg bent and rusty. Very few screws holding it together, metal clips holding frame to table & back. Any ideas how to remove these clips and the arm. Was reluctant to start trying to remove clips without understanding how they are set in place.
Thanks


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## Poa

Frank….I strongly suggest that you do not remove the clips. It opens a real can of worms. They are not designed to be removable. The arm comes off pretty easy, if ya just go slow and use common sense. Careful, theres a spring involved. But start by driving out that pin that is evident over the slot. The sequence will reveal itself as you progress from there. I have an "all steel" GP parts donor box, and if you think you need the tutorial, I'll walk you through it with pics. I strongly suggest, if you are going to dismantle it, that you spritz some rust buster on all the screws and nuts, and let them soak at least a night. This particular parts box was an antique mall find. It was pretty raunchy, but I managed to get it cleaned up and derusted. I thought, intially, that someone had removed the metal clips and tables. But since then I have seen pics of two "all steel" style boxes, on Ebay, with wooden tables. So perhaps there was a production run of this style box with wood tables.










Do me a favor, if you will. Check your Stanley No. 358, and see if it has one, or two springs, like are discussed above.


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## Poa

Frank….my apologies. I commented on the assumption you knew about "All Steel" boxes. But on rereading your comment, I may have been mistaken. Goodell Pratt came out with this style box, and marketed it as being "unbreakable". They went for a riveted and welded construction that was very rigid, and fastened together in such a way that all the parts effectively became a solid whole. The frame is not designed to be dismantled. Millers Falls, after buying Pratt out, continued to market this style box under the Pratt name for a short period, before finally signing them Millers Falls. If you have a metal Model No. tag on yours, it was manufactured after MF bought GP. If not, than it is of a vintage prior to the MF buy out, because GP used paper Model No. tags on these boxes.


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## FrankonThetis

Hi Poa, thanks for your information. The only stencilled info on my box is on both posts, Goodell Mfg Co; Greenfield, Mass; Pat'd Feb 9, 1904. No identifying plate like Stanley or MF ones. So do I take it then this one of mine is the "All Steel" you refer to in your second post? Have sprayed what screws are visible and will wait a couple of days to see if they will move. Will leave the clips alone and hope to clean box as it is. 
Your question about my 358, sadly no iPad was on hand to document all before and after actions when rebuilding 2 units, one for myself and my son. Mine had only 1 upright with a spring while his had springs on 1 front and 1 back upright plus ruler markings. Here are a couple of pics showing my 358 as found and the one my son has. Stanley name plate was on the front as shown in my first post while the second one has it on the right end. Also a picture of a fabrication we made, front one was original with box.


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## GlenintheNorth

That GP looks to be an All-Steel, earlier than 1922.
In 1921 they patented the V-shaped channels for the length stops on the sides. Square/key slot ones were before that. Mine is post-21, but before the 1931 Millers Falls merger. Millers Falls marked them with a durable plate or stamp or etch where Goodell-Pratt didn't. It makes determining the correct model number for many GP tools a chore.

Incidentally, mine has a metal table and not wood. It really was all steel.

I have a GP hand drill that is also not marked. Without a catalog image to match it to, I'm up a creek on it.


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## Poa

My additional reasoning to surmise that this "All Steel" box was actually manufactured with a wood table, are these eyes installed to the frame. The wood table that was on the box was obviously user made, as it was simply a piece of 3/4" pine, roughly cut on the ends, and unfinished. But it was fastened by large headed wood screws that were screwed through the eyes into the wood. Also, oval headed screws through the legs.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> In 1921 [GP] patented the V-shaped channels for the length stops on the sides. Square/key slot ones were before that.
> 
> - GlenintheNorth


That helps me date my G-P, as it has the v-shaped channels for length stops on either end, in the range of '22-'31.


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## GlenintheNorth

This is the metal bed on my GP. I am fairly certain it's original. It's got a strange texture. MF and Langdon used a completely different pattern.

I did not check for the eyelets. However, I'm not convinced that wood screw anchors are the intent with those. It would have been easier and cheaper for them to simply stamp and bend a flap on one of the structural parts that could have had a hole drilled or stamped in.


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## Poa

The restored GP All Steel I recently sold did not have the eyelets. It did have the metal tables. Looking at these eyelets closely, they are very well done. They are secured by peened shanks. I would say they definitely are factory. If not for the purpose of screwing down a wood table,I can think of no other reason for them to be there. In fact…this pretty well cinches it….

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=381907643816&alt=web

Edit….hmmmmm….I wonder it these wood tabled All Steels could be Greenfields??


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## theoldfart

The corrugated tables were an option early on I think. Look here you can see the eyelets


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## Poa

Hey Kevin…welcome to the party.

http://hus-boringt.wkfinetools.com/goodellpratt/hist-GBrothers/GMC-0,751,908-heGoodell-miterBox/0,751,908-1.asp


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## theoldfart

Another good place to look

For some reason they're pic links are broken, there are usually good slide shows.


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## Poa

If I thought I could find the rear elevator post for this GP, I'd hang onto it. Or, at the very least, do a complete resto before selling it. Personally, I like the idea of an All Steel with wooden tables. Just because it ain't as common. I've had this donor box on ebay for a long time now. I'd think it would move, or at least someone would try to talk me out of the stock rest and the stock rest blocks. But nuthin', except an occassional watcher.


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## GlenintheNorth

> Edit….hmmmmm….I wonder it these wood tabled All Steels could be Greenfields??
> 
> - Poa


There's a thought. I haven't looked at those.


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## theoldfart

The Greenfield's have a different fence and frame.https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/gallery/goodell/greenfield


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## Poa

Have you ever seen, or ran across a Greenfield, Kevin?


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## GlenintheNorth

> The corrugated tables were an option early on I think. Look here you can see the eyelets
> 
> - theoldfart


So what we are looking at is either a set of options, or model differences.

I nearly bid on a GP catalog tonight, #15 from 1922. My wife would have beaten me with the rolling pin, but it was tempting.


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## Poa

Or maybe vintage. So far, the ones I've found pictures of that are pictured with wood tables all have the keyed stock rest blocks, instead of the vee blocks. Perhaps the wood tabled boxes were first generation All Steels.


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## Poa

In fact, if you read the text of the patent I linked to on post # 1960, it specifically refers to the eyelets, and the "boards" that serve as tables. So, if that 1904 patent is indeed the first patent for the All Steel miter box, than it follows that the first generation All Steels had wooden tables. I wonder if there is a patent for subsequent metal tables, and the "clips" that held them to the frame? That would give us a vintage range on the wood tabled boxes.


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## GlenintheNorth

> Or maybe vintage. So far, the ones I ve found pictures of that are pictured with wood tables all have the keyed stock rest blocks, instead of the vee blocks. Perhaps the wood tabled boxes were first generation All Steels.
> 
> - Poa


Could be. I'm concentrating effort mostly on getting my 1940s Acme completed. It seems those length stops were used for so short a time that they never appeared for sale in a catalog. Might have to repro.


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## theoldfart

No I haven't seen a Greenfield yet


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## JethroBodean

People, people, people. So many topics, so much discussion; I love it. I need to go back and reread the last couple of week's worth of posts to make sure I haven't missed some important points. But let me blunder on blindly anyway…

I'd like to address springs on Stanley 358 & 460 Mitre Boxes; let it be noted that nothing I'm about to say will be conclusive so you are free to kept your existing opinions! I have three 358s and one 460, all pre-1940. All four boxes have a single spring on the front left (ok one is in the back right, but that's because some previous owner has swapped the front and back posts!) I have trouble believing that four different boxes would have all had any additional springs removed and be left with a single spring on the front left post on all four boxes.

Next I have been looking at PDFs of older Stanley Catalogs. When looking at the exploded Parts view in the 1909, 1914, 1926 and 1934 catalogs, I can clearly see a single spring on the front post and no spring is shown on the back post. In the 1953 & 1958 catalogs, both post are represent by a single drawing, that drawing does show a spring. So it is unclear whether or not there is a spring on the back post as well as the front.

None of my boxes are the 'A' version, it is always possible that another spring was added to the 'A' boxes as an improvement. However my gut is telling me that a single spring in the front is how they normally came from the factory. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Jeff


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## Poa

Funny you mention an A box, Jethro. I just recieved one a few days ago. A 346A.

Uuuhhhmmmmm…..single spring, left front post rod.

Allow me to clarify my reasoning, and motives, for being so tenacious about this issue. First, it is not my intention to offend anyone, start a p*ssing match, or prove anyone "wrong". I am actively selling Stanley miter boxes, and it is extremely important to me that they are sold in their correct state, as described, and as they were designed to operate. Also, as striving to be a modest parts vendor, its important to me that I know what components make up a complete box, and what the various differences are between the boxes. So although this spring issue may seem trivial to some, to me it is an important issue. I hope no one here is offended by my efforts to resolve this "one spring versus two spring" debate, and I hope that if it isn't already put to rest by by the numbers, or the comments, that it soon will be. For myself, its resolved. I am 100% of the mind that the double rod style Stanley miter boxes were designed to have 1 spring, on the left hand front, unthreaded, rod.


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## KentInOttawa

Just to be clear…

I don't know and I'm *not* offended. I did ask a few months back about the possibility of a sprig but didn't get an answer. My 358 came with only one spring (front, left), but it has the threaded adjuster on the left side on both front and rear so it seemed that it *could* be missing a spring.

With old tools it can be difficult to determine what was original and what is user-modified. I won't be adding a rear spring to mine based on what I've read here.


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## Poa

By the way, if you look closely at the elevator post mounting blocks, you will note one is marked "F", and one is marked "R,. (Front and rear), on their tops. There is a reason for that. One, the saw hanger, and two, the contested spring.


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## bandit571

Mine had both the threaded rods front and rear, and the springs front and rear. The oldest saw of the four the fellow sold with the box was a Disston #4 made before the 1928 redesign. The fellow didn't sharpen any of the saws…when one went dull, he went to the Hardware Store, and bought a new saw for it.

The fellow had bought the 358 new in box. As far as I know, the only things that weren't with the saw when I bought it was the tie bar at the top, it had a couple rods, but no tree. Stock holders were also gone ( had to make new ones) and only one pointed bolt that helped keep stock from sliding along the fence. Near as I can tell, I am it's second owner.









With a new deck, and holders.









As bought, from a garage sale









Both sets looked like this. 









I could go back down and look at the name plate a little closer, to see if a model # is there…









Might be a day or two….


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## JethroBodean

Ok, next topic of discussion…358 differences…specifically length stops.

Most of us know about the Length Stop Rods, Coupling and Stand (Tree), along with the holes in the legs to store all of the Length Stop items. But it looks to me like the patent for all of that was 1,203.417, Patented Oct. 31, 1916. So what was there before 1916?

My first 358, which I'm guessing was probably manufactured between 1910 & 1915, had an odd little 'washer' embedded in the right side of the wooden bed. The inside of the 'washer' was threaded. At first I did not even realize it was metal.









So what the heck was this thing all about? According to the 1909 Catalog it was "109 - STOCK GUIDE PLATE", but fat lot of good that did me!

Then late one night I was rereading the descriptions of the parts from the 1909 catalog. There are 4 items listed as "STOCK GUIDE…". They are as follows:

106 STOCK GUIDE
107 STOCK GUIDE CLAMP
108 STOCK GUIDE THUMB SCREW
109 STOCK GUIDE PLATE

I kept coming back to the fact that they were tying the PLATE in with the Stock Guide pieces. Then the light bulb finally went on! The answer is that you use the Stock Guide, Clamp and Thumb Screw in the Plate. Your Stock Guide does double duty as a length gauge.


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## ToddJB

My Stanley SW ERA 460 only has the spring front left.


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## Poa

Wow Jethro! Thanks for that! I have noticed that metal piece in a couple of photographs, and was at a loss as to what it was for. Also, above, Smitty recommended I look at a post concerning a No. 358. Can't recall what number the post was. But one thing I noticed was the legs did not have the holes for the stop rest components.

Edit….I found it. Its post #302. The legs do not have provision for the stop components, but the table does have that threaded plate.


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## Poa

Jethro…."My first 358, which I'm guessing was probably manufactured between 1910 & 1915, had an odd little 'washer' embedded in the right side of the wooden bed. The inside of the 'washer' was threaded. At first I did not even realize it was metal"

So, Jethro, did the legs have provision for storing the cut length stop rods?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a box with said threaded washer embedded in the right side of the wooden bed.


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## Poa

Well…smitty, does it have the rod holes in the legs?


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## bandit571

Like these?









Had one front and rear on each leg.


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## JethroBodean

POA- No holes in the legs. With the Stock Guide in the dado and the clamp and thumb screw fastened in the back of the box; you just loosen the thumb screw and pull the stock guide all the way back through the opening, then swing the the stock guide out of the way, so that it is parallel to the back of the box Then re-tighten the thumb screw to secure everything safely behind the fence.


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## Poa

Very cool. I'd like to find an older 358, complete, configured like that.


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## JethroBodean

Alright Bandit; I'm just convinced that one spring is the natural way of things and that the earth is round. To that end I've come up with a story that explains your double springs.

You've already stated that the previous owner would rather buy a new saw than sharpen an old one (or have it sharpened). So it is my thought that if such a person accidentally knocked his precious Mitre Box off his workbench, mangling the back post assembly (and incidentally at the same time destroying the Tie-Bar). I can then imagine this owner going down to his local hardware store, again, to order a new post. But because (unlike all of us) he was unaware that the front and back posts are different, he mistakenly orders another front post (but not a new Tie-Bar). Thus giving you two front posts with two springs and no Tie-Bar. So what do you think?

The posts should both be marked on the base with an 'F' or 'B', you might want to check to see if you have two 'F' posts.

I will not rule out the possibility that I'm am just plain wrong! "She who must be obeyed", has been known to let me know that I'm often wrong.

Jeff

Here is the front post with an 'F' on the swing arm and the post base:









And now the back post with a 'B' on the swing arm and the post base:


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## bandit571

Might be a few days before I can get it out to check, not that worried about it. Nor really worth the time to argue about it, I have other uses for it. I did use the markings to put the box back together, IIRC.


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## JethroBodean

Here I hope is a series of photos that show how the Stanley Stock Guide is put away when not in use:


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## Poa

On this elevator post mounting block thing….

Jethro's is the first I've seen with a "B" (for "back"). All the ones I've looked at have "R" (for "rear"). And just out of curiousity, I just looked at the 346A, and the mounting blocks on it are not marked at all. I really get the impression, looking at this "A box", that it is on a par with the Stanley Type 20 planes, heralding Stanley's major cheapening of its products, post 1960's. I think these boxes were probably Stanley's last hurrah with this style box.

We have major rain here, so work is out of the question for a day or two. I will probably get started on the "A box" today, and I'll do my best to bore the heck outta ya with my opinions, observations, and conclusions about this "A box".


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## Poa

Oh…forgot to.mention. Note the directional positions of the elevator post mounting blocks. As I'm sure most of you know, these blocks swivel, to adjust for the plate thickness of your saw. Many times, when looking at boxes on ebay, I will see these blocks mounted backwards in their sockets, with the screw heads on the brass stops pointed inwards, pointed towards the frame, and the block screws pointed inwards as well. If you have to pull the elevator posts to adjust the brass stops, the spring height, or the post's angle in relation to the table, you are set up wrong. Both threaded rods, front and rear, should be to the right of the saw plate, and all the post's adjustment screws should be pointed outwards for access.


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## FrankonThetis

Poa, how far up the post is the bottom of the spring? Looks maybe an 1". On your other boxes has the spring been at a common height setting?
Thanks


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## Poa

Frank…it has varied. Some were set obviously wrong, because the saw, at rest, was still nestled in the table kerf. The spring should hold the saw slightly out of the kerf on the front of the table, yet, when compressed, allow the toothline into the kerf to finish your cut. So the height that you set your spring is dependent on your saw plate size, for instance, I have a 5" x 28" Stanley miter box saw that has been sharpened enough times that it now measures 4-3/4" from toothline to the bottom of the spine. So obviously, the post spring would be set lower than if this saw had its full plate height. With the spring set correctly, you should be able to swivel the swingarm without damaging the saw plate by having it being trapped in the table kerf. The kerf at the back of the table, where the 90° and 45° angles intersect, has enough clearance, due to the intersection, to allow the plate to swivel freely, even though it is below the table surface at the point.

Edit…Also, Jethro just graciously pointed out to me that saw weight probably has more to do with spring height settings than plate size does. Which makes sense. I had never thought of it in those terms, as the result was what I was looking for, rather than the physics behind achieving the result.


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## Johnny7

I have about 10 Stanley miter boxes of varying model and vintage. Each has a spring *only* on the front upright.

My friend and mentor, Doc Bailey, has theorized that the spring is installed only in this location to compensate for the weight bias of the saw due to the handle.


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## FrankonThetis

Could the front spring only location be related to the small "trip" device located on the backsaw spine by the handle, that releases the front catch first. Heel end of the saw falls first causing the toe end to raise up and release the back catch.


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## Poa

A thread could be devoted to the Stanley double rod elevator posts alone. There are so many issues concerning them.

Already, I have found a problem with this 346A boxes elevator post assemblies that I have ran into before, and have not come up with a solution I'm happy with. Perhaps someone here has resllved it. The rods, where they thread into the rod block, become tight before they align the tabs that engage the saw hangers. So, to align the tabs, you have to loosen the rod. In its loose state, the elevator post will not maintain the setting for plate thickness. The only two solutions I can imagine is securing the rods in the proper position with Loctite, or finding extremely thin shim washers. But whatever the solution, it really needs resolution, because loose rods are a definite bummer that seriously hamper the box's ability to be properly tuned.


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## Poa

Frank, I was pondering that about a week or so ago. But it seems the spine trips the lever at the toe guide before the heel guide meets the spring. So I really don't see how that trip clamp has anything to do with the spring or its height setting. This getting old stuff really sucks. When I apprenticed, all our field mitering was done with a Stanley box. But for the life of me, I can't remember, clearly, the particulars of using the box. I only know it was a Stanley box because the shop master/owner's son ended up with it, and promptly sold it. He can't recall anything about it either, only that it was a Stanley, which he informed me when I inquired about it a year or so back. Late sixties, early seventies was the time frame. I can't even remember if it was the double rod style, or the single post style. The shop was a high end custom furniture/finish carpentry shop, so the quality of our field jointery had to be exceptional. And I remember doing alot of mitering with that box. But getting right down to recalling the box's configuration, or the minute details of using it…..blank.

BTW, I have yet to run across one of those trip clamps. I'd love to get my hands on one. If anyone has one that they wanna part with, feel free to message me. Buy or trade.


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## bandit571

Well…I WAS going to rest the leg today…BUT, seems I need to take a few more photos…









Ok. This is the front one. There is a groove, cut by a saw, where the "F" was on the block. Might have been a reason for the springs?









This is the back assembly. IF you look beside that saw "kerf" you might just see what is left of a "B". Also might be a reason for the spring in the rear. Because..









IF I were to compress that spring just a hair more, I would be cutting metal. Some of the other pictures on the saw..









While I did fabricate new stock holders, these were the thunbscrews that came with the saw, I did not have to find new ones for this spot. 









The feet have two holes for stowing rods. It also had a coupler on the one rod that came with this box. The Bolt holding the rod in place was used in the foot pad as a leveler. The old bolt that used to be there was stripped. 









Logo time. No.358 The red stripe has Stanley in it. Below the red stripe is a stamped "Made in USA" , there wasn't any plate on either end. 
I measured down from the top of the saw's spine to the deck..









And it read exactly 6". Saw has a Disston & Sons logo on the spine, and an etch that say how the saw was made expressly for a Stanley Mitre Box.

As for as I know, I am the second owner of the saw and the mitre box. Original owner was moving out to a retirement home, and was selling off all his tools. I had to add the bar across the top, a new deck, and make new stock holders. Mitre Box and one saw cost me $15….about the same as the other three saws he had for this box.

Hoping to get a few more years of use out of this tool….


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## Poa

Bandit….

On the rear post assembly, the left hand brass stop, (which should be on the unthreaded rod, with no spring), is the stop that you set to keep the saw from cutting into the mounting block. It should be set so that the guide hits the brass stop when the saw toothline is slightly lower than the table surface. Trust us on this, Bandit. We aren't trying to prove you wrong, we're just trying to help you, (and others that may be jnterested), to set your boxes up correctly. Above, I address the correct height that the front left hand spring and brass stop should be set at.

The right hand brass stops are designed to set the depth of cut when you are actually making cuts that do not go clear through the stock you are cutting, like the shoulder cuts for dadoes or rabbets. Thats why they are threaded on, so not only are they adjustable, but the threads give them holding purchase as well, so your setting won't move when making your shoulder cuts. When you are not using these as depth stops, they should simply be low enough on the rod that they do not engage the bottom of the RH guide when LH guide is bottomed out on the LH stop. Or, if you want, it can be set at the exact same level as the LH guide, to give the setting a big more holding purchase.

About saw size. The last two digits of a box's model number tell you what size saw should be used with that box. A model 360, for instance, was designed to have a 6" x 30" saw. A 358, designed for a 5" x 28" saw, etc. This is fairly important, because the guide lengths are designed for a certain height plate. A 360 guide is taller than a 358 guide, for instance.

Also, it is not rare to find these boxes in a state of disarray, with components mixed up, mismatched, placed wrong, missing, and broken. This 346A I started on today came with the wrong size saw, and the saw hangers on the wrong posts, mounted backwards. Easily, someone just familiarizing themselves with these boxes could assume the box was configured correctly, and try to teach themselves to use the box in that state. Thats unfortunate, because these boxes perform at their best when they are configured exactly as the designers intended.


----------



## Johnny7

As to the terminology, purpose and correct setting of that spring …

I talked to Doc, who pointed me to this:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Johnny, pls pass to Doc that he's certainly missed, and that I hope he is doing well!

Carry On… All great stuff.


----------



## JethroBodean

POA - 'A 358, designed for a 5" x 8"' I would be interested to see your video showing how to use a saw that size with a 358.

Quite a while back, I was buying a GP from craigs list, I asked the guy if he had the saw. Swearing that he had the original saw I made the 30 mile drive. When I got there he had a plastic handled 12" backsaw setup in the box…backwards. I still bought the box but left the saw with him so he took off $5.


----------



## Johnny7

*Smitty*
Will pass on your regards to Doc - he has said of you, that he could tell just from your posts that you were "one of the good guys"

*Jethro*
that is 5" under the spine, 2*8*" in length
with the exception of the model 360 and 460 (30" saws), the "twenty" prefix is presumed.
Or were you just kidding?


----------



## Poa

Jethro…thanks. Edited.


----------



## theoldfart

"one of the good guys" same goes for Doc, thanks for all the data Johnny. Tell Doc I picked up another Traut box


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## Poa

Okie dokie…ready to get bored?

Here are the dismantled, degreased, cleaned, and reassembled Stanley No.346A elevator post assemblies. Fortunately, after cleaning, they revealed themselves as being almost pristine, and they did not require any derusting.

My assumption is that these A boxes are last generation. Certainly, the excellent condition of this box would seem to back up that assumption.

I noticed three differences where these A posts differed from my earlier posts. First, the guide castings are different on the interiors. (The A guide is the upper guide in the pic). Second, the mounting blocks and screws are blued. Third, the mounting blocks are not marked "F" and "R".


----------



## Johnny7

> Tell Doc I picked up another Traut box
> 
> - theoldfart


Kevin
Congrats, and photo(s) please.


----------



## theoldfart

It's the second iteration of Trauts first Mitre Box since the legs are cast iron rather than bronze.









The lead wheels are untouched, on my first box they are almost cut in half









Finally there are traces of the original green finish.


----------



## Johnny7

*^* That is a very nice intact example


----------



## theoldfart

Would cleaning it up adversely affect the box's value?


----------



## Johnny7

> Would cleaning it up adversely affect the box s value?
> 
> - theoldfart


I would say yes, and I'll tell you why.

This box differs from the majority of the Stanley boxes we usually see (and hoard and discuss) in that it is the great granddaddy of all Stanley boxes. I don't know the exact numbers, but I can tell you that these are not frequently found in the wild.

Moreover, though it could be used, it is sufficiently old to be accurately termed an antique.

I would do nothing more than wipe it down with mineral spirits and sparingly oil any point where metal contacts metal. (but then, perhaps that's all the "cleaning" you had in mind)


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks, that was my intention. I tend not to restore/refurbish. Too much work


----------



## Poa

Clean, or uncleaned, I hope you do a series of close up pics of the entire range of components, and all the views. I'm curious what it looks like underneath, how the swingarm locks and disengages, what locks it between standard angles settings, what size saw ot took, what size it is, etc.. We may never see one up close and personal, Kevin, so you are our eyes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin, I think DanK is the one that talks about green goo and it's affinity for moving from one LJ to another. Well, it's moving in your direction. Love that Traut, what a lovely example of a complex (and oh-so-mundane) tool. Love it, and congrats! I 2nd the request for more pics. Wow.


----------



## TheFridge

So, I have a Stanley 2358A. Looks like a late model box. I has a lot of slack in the trees (?). If there was an acceptable way to remedy this problem (drill and tap some #10 or 12 brass screws to take up the slack from both sides) id do it if I was confident it would work well, but I don't want to kill what little value it has if it doesn't.

I could seriously use a miter box but finding another in my area isn't gonna happen. Don't really want to buy another if a couple bucks can fix the one I have.

I figure itd probably work?


----------



## Poa

So….Fridge….

I'm not sure I understand where the slack is. I'm guessing, that if you hold the very top of the elevator post, it has slop left to right, not being a snug fit in the swingarm uprights. Is that correct?










If thats the problem, I'm not sure what would cause it. It would suprise me if an A box has had time to actually wear the upright enough to cause it to be sloppy. Perhaps if the posts were subjected to a lateral impact, like the box being dropped from the bench, and landing sideways with the posts taking the brunt of the inertia, spreading the split in the uprights.

Regardless, I'd be reluctant to drill the uprights and add screws. If I have been correct in my interpretation of the problem you're describing, I'd be more prone to see if I might possibly compress the uprights a tad. Perhaps with hose clamps. Or maybe just a clamp. I'd try it carefully, with the posts removed, first. If you can't get them to hold the compression, then a hose clamp would undoubtedly work as a premanent addition to the upright.(Rube Goldberg would be proud of that solution). I have a couple of 2358 swingarms on Ebay, but they aren't "A" model vintage, and there may be differences we are unaware of.


----------



## theoldfart

I thought you folks were bored with my old mitre box pics! Going skiing today but will come over the weekend. If providence is on my side I may have a few more goodies in the coming week.


----------



## Poa

Never boring, Kevin.

Besides, if its just boring you'd be, it'd be a much higher standing than my status this morning. After all the banter about the Stanley elevator posts and their proper configuration…..

Last night, while checking my Ebay listings, I was looking at my pics of the No. 360 box. And…uh….what jumps out at me? I had the front threaded rod, to the left, with the spring on it. So, I had the posts reversed front to back, and I had the saw hangers on the wrong posts. My only excuse is that I don't have an excuse. I completely dismantled this box, and reassembled it, so there is no one I can point a finger at, unless I'm in front of a mirror. So, I've since reconfigured the posts in their proper configuration, and this morning I'll take fresh pics and get 'em on the listing. Oops.


----------



## TheFridge

Poa, yes. The uprights widen as they go up. gonna take a look and see if I can squeeze it in a hair. Thanks bud.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The older Stanley box, with deck-top washer/stop thingy.










It has no plate, end or front, just patent dates.










No rod holes in the legs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Stanley Form No. A285



















Provenance:


----------



## Poa

Thanks, Smitty. Gotta get me one of them thar boxes with no holes in the legs!


----------



## Poa

And heres the 346A, after dismantling, cleaning, reassembly, and a new table.

Different style stock rests, narrower table datoes, and a difference in the frame casting where the stock rests are secured, (from my earlier boxes). I did not note any swingarm differences. I have already, noted, above, the elevator post differences.


----------



## bandit571

Either my saw is huge, or the bench is too small…









Cutting a few re-saws to length…


----------



## theoldfart

Pulled out the big guy









Saws a bit of a mess but still did the job!


----------



## Mosquito

I may have picked up another miter box today… I may have to put one on the chopping block now


----------



## Poa

6×30, Kevin???


----------



## bandit571

Got mine off the workbench, and onto it's new home…









Don't have to climb over stuff to use it, anymore…..


----------



## theoldfart

POA, yea. BTW, I won those Langdon parts on feebay. No other bidders. And I am lusting after MV Flaims 8" deep MF Langdon, he's down to ONLY $750 plus shipping! Guess $5,000 didn't work


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Which Langdon parts? I search those and don't recall seeing any.


----------



## theoldfart

These

Circa 1874, made in Northampton not Millers Falls.

They fit this box


----------



## GlenintheNorth

OHH I did see those..forgot they were up there! You almost had competition.

I didn't put them on my watch list when I first saw them because I didn't have the rest of the box. I've been looking for the length stops for my 73A.


----------



## Poa

Gee Kevin, only 750?? How low do you think he'll go?

Way outta my league right now. Scary part is, you're kinda rolling the dice watching it come down, 'cause I guarantee you ain't the only one watching it. Your "not low enough" might just be another guy's "finally I can afford it now". Glad I'm not gunning for it, I'd be a nervous wreck at this point. I'm kinda thinking its real close to being worth what he's askin'. I doubt I'm the only one thinking that.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Agreed. I thought the original posted price was obscene, but it's a whole lot closer to reality now. Seems he's looking for a bite.

Did anyone else make one so big?


----------



## theoldfart

It's the only one iv'e seen of that size. Langdon was still a small enough operation to do one off's at the time it was built.

Glenn, Northampton box's are fairly scarce, nor sure if these parts would fit a Millers Falls.


----------



## Poa

Ya know, thinking about it, even without the box, that Disston has gotta be a high dollar ditty. It too, may be a one-off. Its interesting that they cut it as a 24". You'd think, with that plate height, they woulda made it longer. Its obviously designed to cut unusually thick, (or tall), stock, so the longer your stroke, the less strokes needed, of course. Interesting piece, thats for sure. I hope that it ends up in your shop, Kevin.


----------



## TheFridge

> I may have picked up another miter box today… I may have to put one on the chopping block now
> 
> - Mosquito


I may be interested if you are. I still have that record 043.


----------



## Mosquito

> These
> 
> Circa 1874, made in Northampton not Millers Falls.
> 
> They fit this box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Right in my back yard even! lol


----------



## Mosquito

> I may have picked up another miter box today… I may have to put one on the chopping block now
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> I may be interested if you are. I still have that record 043.
> 
> - TheFridge


Ha, we may need to have a conversation when I get to hat point ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

POA, I think it was made for cutting tall crown molding. Like you said it would be too short for thick stock. I've known about this box for a few years, not realy a need as much as a want.


----------



## theoldfart

POA, I misspoke on that saw. It's 28×6 not 30×6. Just big enough









Perfect mitres before trimming even


----------



## terryR

Nice looking work, Kevin.

NOW I can see why a plate with such enormous depth is desirable.

I feel another miter box in my future…or maybe it's gas?


----------



## Poa

I currently have a large box on ebay, a No 360, with a 30" × 6" Disston to go with it. Its suprising to me that of the boxes I have listed, its the least watched, and its the least viewed. Yet it can cut anything the smaller boxes can, but the smaller boxes can't cut everything it can. If I was still using a box for finish fieldwork, I'd want the 360 on the truck, to cover any eventuallity. With exception of the size of the saw, the box is no more cumbersome that a smaller box, really.


----------



## bandit571

Making some use out of the Mitre Box…









Making a few tenons…









I make the other cut the old way..









Have a bunch to do…..


----------



## SonofWrenchman58

There has been a listing on my local CL for a while with the title "Vintage Heavy Cast Mitre Box". From the (only) picture, I could tell it was a Stanley and that it included a saw. The Stanley 246 I picked up a couple of weeks ago did not come with a saw and it also missing the repeatable cut stop tree and one of the screws for the top bar.

I thought it was worth going to see this other box because I needed (wanted) the saw and hoped it would be more complete than the 246. Unfortunately, the box that was for sale is even less complete than the one I already own. On the other hand, it is a Stanley 460, with the 30 inch long saw. Until this evening, I've never actually wanted to tell someone, "Shut up and take my money!"

I measured the saw when I got home and it is approximately 29 1/2 inches from the toe to the center of the medallion and 6 1/2 inches from the teeth to the top of the back. It has a Disston medallion and stamp in the back. There is an etch but it is too rusted over to really see or take a picture of. Both horns are slightly chipped and the handle is loose.









Here is the tag, I'm sorry the picture isn't clearer. Something, something, cell phone cameras!









The two sacrificial boards are going to have to go.









Next to the 246 for scale. This thing is huge!









Saw medallion.









Stamp on the back of the saw.









In a manner that can only be described as mind boggling, the saw actually fits in the 246, so I may just use those two together and keep the 460 as a conversation piece!

I would greatly appreciate any information y'all could provide me with about the 460.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

460, holy cow that's huge!


----------



## Johnny7

If you take a look back at post #557 (in this thread) you can see a 360-it shares the same saw specs as the 460, and one can only presume that the "4" prefix signifies a frame #4.

My question - to *SonofWrenchman58*-does that nameplate say "Frame 4" as I think it does?
I would be interested in knowing how the 460 frame differs from the 360.
btw - I have access to that 360 for purposes of providing measurments, if it comes to that


----------



## Poa

The front and rear posts on the 460 are reversed. The "frame 4" intrigues me. I'd be interested in how long the frame is, and what the hieght of the fence is, bare frame without the wood table. Also, distance between the two posts, long setting, center to center. I am curious if it differs from a 360.


----------



## Poa

Hmmm….apparently johnny and I were using the same brain in the same space of time…..


----------



## SonofWrenchman58

Johnny, the tag does say "Frame 4".

For both you and Poa, I'll take measurements tomorrow evening, along with trying to get a clearer picture of the tag.

Smitty, yeah, I didn't realize until I got home and put it by the 246. I'm lucky the seller didn't get a better look at the expression on my face when I saw it, he may have declined to sell it to me and tripled the asking price!


----------



## Johnny7

> For both you and Poa, I ll take measurements tomorrow evening, along with trying to get a clearer picture of the tag.
> 
> - SonofWrenchman58


Thanks-that would be helpful


----------



## SonofWrenchman58

Johnny, Poa,


Length of fence: *23 7/8 inches*
Length of frame: *24 inches*
Height of fence from frame: *5 inches*
Height of fence and legs: *8 inches*
Post center to center: *13 1/2 inches*

Let me know if there are other measurements you would like to see. I would also be interested to know how it compares to a number 3 frame.

And a (marginally) better picture of the tag:









Poa, thank you for letting me know about the posts being backwards. The one that is in front is very loose - not screwed in well.

The box itself is pretty beat: one of the legs is loose, both sacrificial boards have been sawn through, the post currently on the back has some user modifications, and there are chips on the back of the fence…


----------



## Johnny7

Interesting stuff

If I understand the various measurements you've provided, the corresponding measurements on the 360 I checked were:

Length of fence: *20 1/4"*
Length of frame: *20 1/4"*
Height of fence from frame: *4"* (from top of deck under sacrificial board to top edge of fence)
Height of fence and legs: *7"* (from bottom of foot to top edge of fence)
Post center to center: *12 1/2"*

The only other measurement that I'd like to know is width of deck under board, from face of fence to front edge of deck not including circular casting.

On the 360, this came in at *4 1/2"*

note that there is no frame number on the 360's tag, though we can presume it to be a frame 3 from the model number.


----------



## Poa

I have a later model 360, and the measurements are as follows. Also, I have included a couple of additional measurements that are of interest for comparison.

Fence and frame length, no deck (table)...20-1/4".

Fence height, no deck….4".

F & R post seperation, on center….12-1/2".

Frame height, bottom of legs/top of fence….6-7/8".

Guide castings…6-3/4".

Elevator post height from top of swingarm to top of guide casting in its hung position….15-5/8".

Also, of note…I have been selling reproduction tables, in poplar. In taking measurements of various original tables removed from boxes, I have found that the table depths on the larger boxes (4×6 saw boxes and larger), varies between a strong 4-1/2" to a strong 4-5/8".


----------



## Poa

Hmmm…and forgot to add. I was researching a saw I just bought, a Disston miter box saw, 4" x 26", that is a metal cutting saw. In my research I noted on the Disstonian website that the 6" × 30" miter box saw was not Disston's largest miter box saw. They also made a 6" × 32", but I have yet to run across one.


----------



## SonofWrenchman58

Johnny, Poa,


Width of deck under board at legs: *4 5/8 inches*
Width of deck under board at channel for stock holder: *4 1/2 inches* 
Elevator post height from top of swing-arm to top of guide casting in its hung position: *16 inches*
Width of sacrificial board: *5 7/8 inches*

I wonder if Stanley dropped the frame number off the tag when they moved the tag from the side to the top? Both the boxes I have are side-tag and have the frame number listed

I'm amazed that there is a saw even bigger than the one I have. I can't imagine!


----------



## Poa

It seems to me, if they lengthened the post to post measurement on the 460, and raised the fence height…

Could it be they built this box with the 6" x 32" saw in mind?


----------



## Johnny7

*SofW58*
In my last post, above, (#2051) I reference a measurement I made concerning the width of the deck under the sacrif'l. board

In the photo below, I show where I took that measurement (red arrow). This is significant since it appears that your deck width measurements were at the narrowest (stock holder channel) and 2nd narrowest (leg area) region of the deck. The area I have highlighted is significant in that this is where the widest, supported cut could be taken.

If it's 4 1/2" on the 360 it must be greater on the 460.










*Poa*
Your theory is entirely plausible, and a confirmation of greater deck width capacity would only add support for such a hypothesis.


----------



## Johnny7

I decided to consult the old catalogs …

Both boxes shipped with the same size saw, the cutting capacity is explained by the frame sizes.

from the 1934 catalog:









from the 1953 catalog:


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa
If a 6×32 saw was the normal saw to go with a 460, wouldn't it kind of blow their numbering scheme out of the water. It would have to be a 462 wouldn't it?

Johnny7
It seems that 1953 boxes are markedly heavier than the 1934 boxes. Especially the 358 with a 5 1/2 lbs difference; 29ibs vs 23 1/2lbs.

Jeff

PS That a look at this page http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/backsawpage.html then scroll down to MITRE-BOX SAW, No. 4. The table indicates that the 32" saw was available in 4", 5" & 6" under the spine. However the paragraph above the table says that these saws are actually 2" shorter at the tooth line then the length indicates.


----------



## Poa

Actually, Jeff, read it again, carefully. It does not address the described length of the plate, but the ACTUAL length of the plate. In other words, a plate descibed as 30" is in actuality 32" long if one figures in the portion under and in the saw handle. The toothline on my 30" Disston measures 30". The toothline on my No. 4 20" Disston measures, well, 20".

Quote from the Disstonian….

"The peculiar shape of butt or heel in these saws makes the toothed edge about 2 inches shorter than the full length of the blade"


----------



## Poa

Oops….I take it back. Seems I'm wrong. But, so too, is the Disston catalogue. The true measurements on my Disston 6" × 30" are 29-5/8" at the toothline, and exactly 30" at the longest point of the plate. On the 4" x 20" No. 4 Disston, it is 19-1/2" and 20". Both saws, measured, have full plate height of 6" and 4". Where this supposed 2" is hiding, is a bit perplexing. I suggest a séance de spiritisme, and we'll ask Henry or one of his sons.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa
I happen to have one of these 6×30 clipped (shaped) heal saws. The etch clears says 6×30 but the tooth line is roughly 28". I can provide photos later. We usually determine the saw length by measuring at the tooth line because that is normally the full length of the plate. However the true measurement of a saw is the longest overall length (given some fudge factor, usually rounded up to the nearest inch) of a plate when measured parallel to the tooth line. So a 6×32 saw with these clipped heels is a 32" plate with 30" at the tooth line.


----------



## bandit571

All three are supposed to be 5×28" Disston No. 4 saws. Plus the one in my #358…


----------



## theoldfart

Got some spare parts, about 140 years old!









Even some of the original color is left.


----------



## Poa

Well….now I'm really confused. The Disston I assumed was a 6 " x 30" has a true measurement of the 29-5/8" at the toothline and 30" at the longest point., It has a clear "Made expressly for Stanley" Disston etch, but no size measurement. So the difference between true plate length and toothline length is only 3/8". So….are you saying this saw is a 6" x 28"???? And if so, where does the 2" figure in?


----------



## SonofWrenchman58

Johnny,

I misunderstood where you were looking for a measurement of the depth of the deck. At the widest point of the casting, not including the semi-circle, the deck is *5 1/2 inches* deep.

All: I took the handle off my saw and measured the plate to be: *29 inches* long at the tooth line, *30 inches* long including the part under the handle, and *6 inches* from the tooth line to the top of the plate, not including the folded back.

I cleaned the saw plate enough to read the etch and it does not give dimensions for the saw. Is there ever a secondary etch with that information?


----------



## bandit571

Well, IF you look at the three saws I posted above, you can see where the 2" disappears. All three are the same (28") along the spine.


----------



## Poa

Bandit….read my post, about MY saw measurements, THEN explain the 2 inches.


----------



## DonBroussard

Kevin-I have a Langdon/MF box similar to yours. I don't have it with me now, so I can't post pics of the saw, but here is a picture of the cast iron fence. The earliest patent date on mine is 1873 and there are two other patent dates. I can't read the letters cast into yours but they're probably around the same vintage.


----------



## bandit571

Because those "missing" 2" were never NEEDED on the saws, Disston clipped the corner off. With the saw all the way in, you will still not need the missing 2" back at the heel. THAT is where the 2" were clipped off at. The square heeled saw is an older saw, before Disston clipped the corner off the heel. 
All three saws in the picture are 28" long at the top. The square cornered one is 28" at the bottom. 
Seems to be a "Much ado about nothing"......

Mine seems to work just fine, regardless of which saw I use in it. I wound up selling the two "newer" saws, one was from the mid 1950s. I kept the older two. between the cost of the Mitre Box (


Code:


 $15) and the saws ( 3

 $5 each) I have about $30 in mine. I sold the new saws, and got about half of that back. Used that to buy material to make the missing top bar, and the top stock holders.

Even used the box today,,,,









And, even with the springs on the front and the back guides, I was still hitting the mounting blocks before I was sawing the wood deck. i was using the second of the two saws today…the saw the other day had been sharpened a few times, wasn't quite deep enough to cut all the way through. Second saw had no problem. 









Must have been almost a full plate….


----------



## theoldfart

Don, your mitre box is a few years later than mine. Langdon moved its manufacturing to Millers Falls in 1876 or so.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks for that info, Kevin. I was too lazy to look it up myself. I know most of y'all carry that information around in your heads anyway. I wonder about the 1873 patent date if they didn't move the mitre box manufacturing to Millers Falls until 1876 though.

EDIT-Maybe the boxes were dual-branded during the transition to Millers Falls?


----------



## Poa

Bandit and Jeff….

Just call me dense….but….uh….



















So….on an older sweetheart era plate….your assertions ring true….



















Which leads me to conclude that like most of my attempts to make rhyme or reason outta the old tool world, I might just as well be trying to figure out the 'ol chicken/egg question.


----------



## theoldfart

^ egg of course


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Chicken, right?

And remember Leach's number one rule of type studies: Stanley didn't manufacture anything with type studies in mind. Variation is the nature of the beast. The same is obviously true of Disston as well.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa
The first picture is of a ?x30, because the longest measurement on the plate (as measured parallel to the tooth line) is 30". Because the heel is (for the most part) is perpendicular to the tooth line, the teeth also measure 30" (or almost).

The third picture is of a ?x28, because plate measurement is 28". However, because of the clipped heel, the tooth line is only 26" or so. It is still a 28" saw.

See it's as straight forward as a chickegg. That unless the heels are clipped.


----------



## Poa

Are you sure, Jeff, about the second saw in my pics??? I thought a saw's designated length was the actual toothline measurement. Wouldn't you call that a 26" saw?.


----------



## JethroBodean

Nope, that's a 28" due to the overall plate length. Most of us are taught that the length of a saw is determined by the measurement at the tooth line. But that really is only true because with almost ever other hand saw type the tooth line is also the longest measurement of the plate.

As I said in an earlier post: 
*"We usually determine the saw length by measuring at the tooth line because that is normally the full length of the plate. However the true measurement of a saw is the longest overall length (given some fudge factor, usually rounded up to the nearest inch) of a plate when measured parallel to the tooth line."*


----------



## Mosquito

And it's here


----------



## Poa

Mosquito…I've seen a couple of those on fleabay, and have wondered about them. It looks like a small sized box, (is it)? Does this mean we gotta keep our eyes peeled for a KK miter box saw for you?


----------



## Mosquito

I've got the saw for it as well, I just didn't have it on hand in the picture (they shipped in 2 different boxes, and I put the saw in the shop already) I'll try to get another picture tonight, but I don't think it's that small, but not sure


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mos, that looks so cool!


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## Poa

So….is the saw marked Keen Kutter? Etch and medalllion? A Disston?


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## Mosquito

I just took a bunch of pictures with my phone, but I think I'm going to go retake with my good camera instead…


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## Mosquito

Here it is next to a Stanley No. 358


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## Poa

I haven't seen that swingarm mechanism before. Who made these boxes for KK?? Or were they made in house?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Drool worthy. Very nice setup, Mos. See'uns hoelw Keen Kutter is STILL a recognized brand (st louis area) around here, I love that branding. Classic. A keeper for sure.


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## shampeon

I believe Keen Kutter saws were made by Atkins. Dunno about the miter box. I have an OVB that is similar, but haven't been able to tell who actually made it for them.


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## quick

Love the old mtire boxes


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## quick

My dad had one he had handed down from his dad.


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## Poa

Anyone have any ideas about miter saw vintage overlaps concerning Stanley boxes?? I have a couple of Stanley Sweetheart saws. One is a Disston, and one is an Atkins. Was Stanley buying from two different suppliers at the same time??? The etch on the Disston doesn't photograph well, but the SW logo is the same SW era logo as the one on the Atkins, where the heart intrudes on the Stanley rectangle.



















Edit…just noticed I've got a third Stanley SW, a Disston 5" x 28", and has the era SW logo where the heart just touches the Stanley rectangle rather than intruding on it.

For those that haven't seen this….

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stantms.htm


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## Mosquito

I have very little info on my Keen Kutter miter box at the moment, but will try to dig some more up in the future. I'm also annoyed that the seller shipped it with the miter saw just sitting on the bottom of the box, and when it arrived the right legs (1 casting) was broken in half… So annoying that people don't understand how brittle cast iron is. Something that heavy should have had the bulk suspended by packing material, not just sitting on the bottom of the box. Argh!


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## theoldfart

Mos, I see a number of boxes with cast legs that are broken. It;s one of the positive points to the GP All Steels.


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## Poa

Mos….I just had a gal send me a No. 358 in a box that was 42" long, with NO packing at all. Saw and miter box were just loose in the box. Fortunately, she did have the sense to remove the elevator posts, and tape them to the miter box frame. I gotta hand it to fedex, because there was virtually no damage, so they musta really handled it with kid gloves.


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## theoldfart

POA, your lucky. 
I will say that the last box I got, the early Traut, was packed exceedingly well. Even the Langdon parts I just got were well packed.


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## Poa

When I ship a box, I like to put a 1/4" piece of ply as a floor in the shipping box. It adds some weight, but the result, no damage to the box, is well worth it. I actually zip tie the components to the plywood, through drilled holes, and then add packing. Shipping with ease of mind is worth the weight of the ply.










As you can see, you don't have to make it a full floor, you can simply do two strips. This pic was taken before the saw plate was put in the shipping box. Thats why the shipping box is so much longer than the miter box. The plate was place between the mitet box and the edge of the shipping box, separated both directions by newspaper packing. Popcorn works as well, but adds cost, and is a mess to unpack. If you are handy, you can skip the packing, and fabricate cardboard bulkheads that lock the box in place. Thats how I packed the last one I shipped, and it went across the continent, arriving in the same state it was when it went out the door.


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## Mosquito

the plywood would also take the hit from being dropped on a corner or something too. I'm guessing mine got set down vigorously on an off angle and all that weight landed on the one poor leg that broke. Just a guess…


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## Poa

This is odd. Every morning I do an ebay search on freshly listed miter boxes and related parts, saws, etc..Well, I found this listing, and have not seen Stanley guides on the double rod elevator posts joined this way before. Anyone have this style of guides being joined??? All I have ever seen is just a flat plate, with an oval opening that engages the saw hanger. Interesting, and intriguing. Like I've said before, I think a type study on these boxes, with any accuracy, is undoubtedly impossible.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=142245578602&alt=web


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## JethroBodean

Do you mean because they are solid without a slot on the sides? This is what I have on my pre-1916 358.


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## Johnny7

The saw guide cap to which (I believe) you're referring, is almost certainly a home-made part. Probably a chunk of aluminum and not even symmetrical in shape.

See here how the part in question differs from the correct part (on the left)










btw-more than a few years back, I collaborated with a few tool gurus in an attempt to catalog the Stanley miter boxes-we abandoned that attempt when we realized how little source material and interest existed.


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## Poa

No…Jeff…look closely at the older box on the ebay auction I linked to. I can't copy and paste the pictures off the ebay site. Look at the top of the guide, and the configuration of the plate that engages the saw hanger.


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## Poa

No…johnny…I am referring to the odd replacement/rendition of this plate….










Both the front and rear posts have it, and it seems to be spring loaded, perhaps a different style release mechanism to free the guide from the hanger?? Never seen it before. Look at the top of the guide, and the configuration of the plate that engages the saw hanger.


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## Poa

Come to think of it, I have a forward saw hanger that has been a bit of a mystery to me. It is on a No. 358 of unknown vintage. This particular hanger requires manual manipulation to get it to engage the hanger plate in the guide. When not in use, this hanger's weight and shape cause it to rest at a different attitude than the rest of my hangers. I wonder if this hanger is supposed to be used with the unusual hanger plate on the ebay auction box?


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## JethroBodean

OK, assuming I understand then I've never seen a release like that in the wild, but I remember seeing a patent. A quick search has lead me to 749,242, January 12, 1904. Does this look like what you are talking?

Here is a link to Patent 749,242 from the US Patent Office.


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## Poa

Jeff….That plug-in is not supported by my android, which is my only access to the net. I did run a search on that patent no., and hit paydirt with an image that is too small to clearly see, that will not enlarge. Frustrating. But what I can make of it, it looks like it may very well be the doo-dad in question. I think I'll contact the seller, and see if he will provide some closeups


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## JethroBodean

Here is the Drawing from Patent 749,242


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## Poa

Yep…thats the deal. It looks to me like the rods are shaped in such a manner, knotched somehow, that the spring loaded plate engages them when the saw/guides are raised to full height. It seems you would need to manually release this mechanism to lower the saw.


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## Poa

I talked him into providing a close up on his listing. No wonder you don't see this cluster***k on many boxes.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=142245578602&alt=web


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## Poa

On post no. 1914 I brought up an issue I was having with a Stanley No. 150 box. I won't revisit the problem here. But, the solution has been found. There is a piece of spring steel the goes under the left hand guide plate that I was unaware of, and was missing on my box. I fabricated a temporary spring today, and it resolved the problem.


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## theoldfart

This Langdon just went for $355!

I'm going to have to lock mine up, worth a bit more than I thought.









Just a quick note. The seller stated that it was the smallest box, not correct. The 16 1/2 is for a 2" saw, this one, a 15 1/2, is for a 2 1/2" saw

Edit: Bandit one upped me below. Should have said smallest metal mitre box


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## bandit571

Nah, the smallest box is still made by GEM…









When done, I can fold it up and stow it away in a tool box. 









Kind of limited on angles, though. Works nicely when cutting trim for doorways…


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## theoldfart

Bandit, you have a point! Only used mine once to try it out. I keep it in my traveling chest.


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## Johnny7

*Kevin*

I believe the smallest miter boxes are the Millers Falls "Star" miter boxes Nos. 40 & 41
Here's a #40










And yes, it's adjustable to factory presets

Even more impressive-the 41 could cut compound miters!

btw-Millers Falls' own catalog lists both as "miter boxes"


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## theoldfart

Johnny, how are they in use? Are they a rough tool or can they do finish work?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> On post no. 1914 I brought up an issue I was having with a Stanley No. 150 box. There is a piece of spring steel that goes under the left hand guide plate and it was missing on my box. I fabricated a temporary spring today, and it resolved the problem.
> 
> - Poa


What is this spring steel voodoo of which you speak? I found out there was a wood roller missing on mine otherwise pretty complete No. 150, now I'm wondering about spring steel. Gotta go look at mine later today.


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## Poa

Smitty….heres a pic of the left hand guide plate. If you look closely you can see a rectangular indent, with just one end of the rectangular spring exposed. It is just a flat piece of spring steel, bent in the middle to form a shallow "V". Without it, it was impossible for me to square the saw plate to the table at 90°. The spring I fashioned, that you can see the end of, is not going to hold its tension. I'm thinking of cutting one out of a window screen retainer spring.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, nice pic and a nice bit of research to find out about that piece. Thanks, Poa!


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## Dennisgrosen

Hello Smitty 
I still remember how I drooled over some off the saws when I last was on L j nearly four years ago
but now its so much that it can fill a swimmingpool on the Olympic stadion
over this epic tread this have become over time 
Thanks foks for let it happen and for you Smitty to make the blog 
you have made my day

Dennis


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## Johnny7

> Johnny, how are they in use? Are they a rough tool or can they do finish work?
> 
> - theoldfart


It would appear that they can do finish work
have a look here:
https://thekiltedwoodworker.com/2015/06/04/millers-falls-langdon-star-miter-box/


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## theoldfart

Thanks Johnny. I now have something else to hunt for. One quibble I have with KTW. He says that the 40 was a pre curser to the Langdon boxes. I think L W Langdons patent predates these by quite a few years.


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## GlenintheNorth

I'll say I like the idea of one of those.


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## CL810

^ +1 Glenn. I had a smaller mitre box that was as accurate as my 246. Gave it to my son and have been looking for a replacement. Do the MF 40 & 41 show up very often? Oh, oh…. another ebay search….


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## Johnny7

> Do the MF 40 & 41 show up very often?
> 
> - CL810


No. They are ultra-rare.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Hello Smitty
> I still remember how I drooled over some off the saws when I last was on L j nearly four years ago
> but now its so much that it can fill a swimmingpool on the Olympic stadion
> over this epic tread this have become over time
> Thanks foks for let it happen and for you Smitty to make the blog
> you have made my day
> 
> Dennis
> 
> - Dennisgrosen


Hello Dennis! Yes, it has been too long since you've been around! You're welcome anytime!


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## Poa

I am looking for a No. 244, and a No. 242. The smaller Stanley boxes seem to be far less common than the 346s and up. If any of you have a 242, I'd be interested in the dimensions.

This tool thing is crazy habit forming. One day you purchase a single miter box, and before ya know it, you wake up one morning, and discover they invited all their cousins over to party….


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## JethroBodean

Nice Family photo though. My eye was caught by the two Totes in the middle of the group, light colored in front and the more gold in back, what a extreme difference in the hang angles!


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## Poa

Yeah…I did a post at TTT about the different handle angles. Starting at the farthest point, you've got three Disstons in a row, then the one with the exaggerated angle is a Bishop. Then, an Atkins/SW Stanley, then, closest, in the No. 150, another Disston.



















I was leery of the angle on the Bishop when I first got it, but after I put it in a box and made a coupla cuts, I found it comfortable. But I imagine, if you were used to using a Disston over a period of time, the Bishop would take some getting used to.


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## Poa

Btw….just purchased a mint later model No. 60 that should get here about Thursday. Looking forward to checking it out, never looked at one up close. I have heard both good and bad about the No. 60. This one is in such good shape I should be able to form an opinion without worrying about age and wear having had an effect on its performance.


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## bandit571

I traded in this "Cheap" Mitre Box for my 358…









Just a Craftsman 22" , picked for $5 at a yard sale, twas a bit rusty whenI got it, though..









Seemed to work, ok. I just like my #358 better. 









Not sure who made this one for Craftsman. Medallion is a CRAFTSMAN USA.


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## Poa

Just recieved a late model Stanley No 60 box. (60MB (85-060A) I mated it to a Disston 4"× 20" No. 4. The box arrived with both elevator posts and the swingarm removed. The original wood table was never kerfed, because the original owner screwed a piece of 1/2" particle board over it. On a scale of one to ten, I have to rate the condition of the box as a very strong nine.

I am loath to admit it about a later issue Stanley tool, but this box is impressive indeed. I reassembled the box, and without any adjustments, it cuts perfect. With the standard array of indents, in between settings are locked in with a cap screw that engages the frame. Elevator post angle in relation to the table is accomplished by adjusting a slotted set screw and lock nut. The saw hangers are very positive, locking easily when the saw is raised. I definitely would recommend this box for smaller miter work. Apologies would be the lack of provision for stock rests or a cut stop. Table size is 4" x 18-1/4". Fence height above the table is 2-7/8". Clearance between table and a fully raised back saw with a 4" plate is exactly 4". You can use a panel saw in these guides, utilizing the nail hole in the guides, provided for that purpose.


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## DanKrager

Poa, that's the very same miter box I bought new, probably in 1975 or so. Still have it and used it this morning. It could use some TLC. It has a WS saw in it and it's done well by me. Yours looks to be very pristine.

DanK


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## bandit571

Oh righty then…elbow is sore now. Had a bunch of saw cuts to do today…..I was making shoulder cuts for tenons….24 tenons. All had to match each other. Set up a stop block ,again..









just had to keep the area in front of it clean….LOTS of saw dust today….Made a "prototype the old fashioned way..









So I could set up for the shoulder cut. Stop block for length of tenon, depth of cut was by these thingys..









I set the pattern under the saw, then set the guides to keep the saw just a hair off the tenon. Set both the front stop, and the one out back of the box. 46 cuts later, I was done. 24 tenons all together. Unable to set the saw up for the cheek cuts, so a resaw jig on the bandsaw was used..









So now I have a huge amount of tiny wood scraps to sweep up, The results of all this?









Counting the prototype there are 24 identical tenons. The other ends of these rails look just like this. Long day today…


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## Poa

Miter box related nattering….

1) Was looking for a 4×26 Disston Stanley miter box saw for one of my boxes, and sent an inquiry to Jim Bode. He had one, but also offered me, for a very reasonable price, a 4×26 Disston No. 440, which is a metal cutting miter box saw. I had never heard of, or seen, such a saw, so I went for both saws. I had them sent to Bob Summerfield, @ Rocky Mountain Saw Works, who tackled sharpening both saws for me. He did an interesting write up for TTT on the process of sharpening the No. 440.

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2017/01/16/sharpening-a-vintage-disston-metal-cutting-miter-saw/



















2) Just recieved a box of Stanley miter box parts, that Carole and Larry Meeker had laying around. I have noticed, in restoring swingarms on the Stanleys, a small threaded hole that up to now I have not known a purpose for. Well, in the parts I recieved today, the mystery is solved. Kinda. This swingarm has a "keeper" lever under the knurled cap screw that holds the front elevator post assembly on. Really, I don't see the utility for it, but there it is. I believe, judging from the size, and some of the other parts that were included, that this swingarm is off a 360, or 460. It is the same length as my 360 arm. But I don't know if the 460 arms were longer? If you have a 460, will you check and let me know, please? The 360 swing arm is 14-1/2" overall.



















3) Last, and least. This tie bar was in with the parts. Craftsman??? I don't understand these solid tie bars for the double rod style posts, because it seems to me that you can no longer turn the the post assembly to adjust for saw plate thickness. This tie bar measures 12-7/16" hole center to hole center. If anyone needs it, holler, pay postage, and its yours.


----------



## mramseyISU

Got a question for the experts here. I'm not sure if this goes in the big saw thread or here but since it's the saw in my langdon I figure this is as good a place as any to start. I've got it set up and it'll cut 4/4 material pretty good but when I try to cut anything thicker the saw drifts to the left. I've tried stoning the teeth on that side and it helped but It'll drift between 1/16 and 1/32 on 8/4 material.


----------



## Poa

LJ Etiquette…...

A question for the forum. As I gather parts for the Stanley boxes, there are some items I run across that are sought after far more than some of the more common things. For instance, a box of parts that arrived yesterday has a pair of 460 stock rests, which are longer than the rests on the smaller boxes. Also some early, pre-bearing calibrated 360 elevator post rods, and guide castings. My impulse is to post the parts lists here, before I throw the stuff on Ebay, giving this community, (which is obviously into miter boxes or ya wouldn't be reading this), first wack at them. But of course, I buy these parts, so I can't afford to give them away. My worry is that it may seem I'm taking advantage of the forum by offering the parts for sale. But the other side of me sees the utility of making you guys aware of what I have available, because I know how frustrating a parts search can be, and how satisfying it is to finally get ahold of a missing component. So….anyone have an opinion on this? Its important to me that I don't wear out my welcome here, and that I can participate without violating any unspoken rules or courtesies. Of course, my interest in these miter boxes runs far deeper than just dollars and cents.


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## Poa

Ramsey….

My first impulse would be that you have a very slight twist in the saw plate. I'd be interested in what happens if you make a cut on 8/4 stock, using just short strokes, utilizing just the heel end of the plate, then doing so just utililizing the toe end.


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## Mosquito

Still waiting to actually use my Keen Kutter box… it's been tied up in the UPS damage claim process since I got it… So annoying. Seller is getting on my nerves too


----------



## ToddJB

Mos, is the plan to try to fix it?


----------



## Mosquito

Not sure if I will yet or not. The seller is submitting/handling the UPS damage claim and she submitted $90 for their request for amount after I told her that so far the only local shop I've gotten an estimate from (many just say no, or don't do cast iron), was $75. I can use it as is, so I'd probably just hold on to it as is unless I had to provide a receipt as part of the claims process or something. Just annoyed.

The seller is getting snippy when I say that had it been broken in the description I wouldn't have offered as much (truth, why would I?) so "just the cost of repairs" wasn't going to fly with me. I could just say "eff you" and file for return as not described/damaged under the eBay buyers protection and make them ship it back, which would make them eat over $100 in shipping both ways. That's what kills me, you'd think $57 shipping would get you some decent effing packing! It was just sitting on the feet on the bottom of the cardboard box with a couple broken up recycled polystyrene blocks tossed in around it. If I didn't want the item that much, or if it was "just" a Stanley box or something I'd probably do it just out of spite, but I've only seen one of these Keen Kutter boxes in a number of months, and it was in decently worse shape than this one was/is, with a broken foot and more rusty.


----------



## ToddJB

Yeah, I hear ya. Sorry man.

As for the fix, brazing it would be the easiest fix. Honestly it's not that difficult, but the equipment required would set you back likely around $100. And a braze is easier to file and dremel back for painting. Maybe put up a service request on CL to find someone.


----------



## Poa

Mos….I have taken to, (when buying boxes online), initiating contact with the seller about packaging inmediately upon purchase. I have found most sellers are quite open to advice, particularly when you point out how prone miter boxes are to be damaged in shipping. That miter box I recieved a while back, thrown in a large box with no packing, convinced me I better speak up before the actual packing takes place.

On another note, it is truly amazing how parts show up, when not expected. You might be suprised one morning, and bingo, theres the busted piece, offered online, or in a box of junk at an antique mall. Recently I bought a 346 frame, no swingarm, no posts. It was just the legs, the frame, and a crappy wood deck. I bought it on a whim, because it was so danged cheap, under 15 bucks, shipped. So imagine my suprise this morning when discovering the swingarm I posted about, above, fits the 346 frame perfectly. (I thought it was a 360 swingarm. I will do a bit more measuring today. Perhaps the 346 and 360 arms are the same, at 14-1/2"). Not only that, but the box of misc. parts from the Meekers also had the guide castings and post rods required. I had already restored the frame a week or two ago, and took the post components out of the evaporust this morning, cleaned them up, reassembled them, cleaned, serviced, and repainted the swingarm, and unexpectedly I now have a box nearing completion. Point being, I hope you don't send the KK back. You just never know what tomorrow is gonna throw in your direction.


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## Mosquito

Brazing was the intended fix, I just don't have that capability myself at the moment. The one guy who said he'd give it a shot said he could probably braze it with nickle, but cast iron, especially old, can be troublesome and may not always work, which I believe from prior reading. Not a bad idea on the CL side, I may post something about it on Vintage Machinery as well, see if anyone local knows a guy for it too

Poa, I don't often buy miter saws online (this was the first one, actually) but duly noted


----------



## Poa

Mos…what is the measurement from screw center to screw center for the leg screws?


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## Mosquito

no idea I don't have it at the moment lol Once I get it back I'll try to remember to measure and get back to you


----------



## duckmilk

> LJ Etiquette…...
> 
> A question for the forum. As I gather parts for the Stanley boxes, there are some items I run across that are sought after far more than some of the more common things. For instance, a box of parts that arrived yesterday has a pair of 460 stock rests, which are longer than the rests on the smaller boxes. Also some early, pre-bearing calibrated 360 elevator post rods, and guide castings. My impulse is to post the parts lists here, before I throw the stuff on Ebay, giving this community, (which is obviously into miter boxes or ya wouldn t be reading this), first wack at them. But of course, I buy these parts, so I can t afford to give them away. My worry is that it may seem I m taking advantage of the forum by offering the parts for sale. But the other side of me sees the utility of making you guys aware of what I have available, because I know how frustrating a parts search can be, and how satisfying it is to finally get ahold of a missing component. So….anyone have an opinion on this? Its important to me that I don t wear out my welcome here, and that I can participate without violating any unspoken rules or courtesies. Of course, my interest in these miter boxes runs far deeper than just dollars and cents.
> 
> - Poa


Poa, I wouldn't think there is anything wrong with letting us know you have something for sale. I've seen people mention tools they have for sale before as a heads up to any LJs who might be interested.


----------



## Mosquito

And things get more annoying… I get an e-mail from the seller:



> Where did you get the return label?
> Since you have returned the miter box, which now has all its feet broken, I want the saw returned also. It was sold as a package and the return is not complete without both elements.


So now it sounds like after UPS did their inspection as part of the claim they must have shipped it back to her instead of me, and now the other set of feet are broken as well, and I don't have the miterbox that I bought and paid for.

I just wanted to not have to pay what I offered on an item that was in good condition that showed up damaged, and now the item is in worse shape than it was before, apparently, and I don't even have it. Not what I needed right now…


----------



## Poa

Mos….was it an ebay purchase??? And have you written the seller to tell them that UPS made a mistake in sending it back to them? Really sucks, big time, for an old tool to survive this long, only to have some jacka*s ship it unprotected. You've got me paranoid, 'cause I've got an old Langdon coming that was shipped USPS, and theres some real gorrillas working for that outfit. But I did give the seller my pre-shipping schpiel, so we'll see.


----------



## Mosquito

I did yeah, we've had a couple e-mails back and forth since clearing it up. They're going to be calling UPS for some words. We'll see what happens I guess. I've been wanting this particular box for a while, and this was only the 2nd in the past year I've seen go by, and the other one was in not so good shape, so I was rather excited to find this one in good shape, but it sounds like that may no longer be the case…


----------



## Poa

Well…do an ebay search right now, because theres two batches of old langdon parts listed now. Or, they were last night. Ya never know, man, might be the pieces you need.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Just curious as I'm brand new to miter boxes, I purchased I believe a mint Millers Falls 74C, but the guy also had a Craftsman 88136303 it definitely was not as nice as the MF but he only wanted $10 for it and it appears to be all together and the saw is in good condition.

Should I go back and grab it or just leave it? I know little to nothing about miter boxes and I'm trying to dip my toes in the water and don't want to waste my time with junk.


----------



## Mosquito

Both of those are center screw legs, so I'd have to drill them out, as mine had 2 holes. Assuming they'd fit otherwise, that is.

Although… I did just find this miter box, which is almost a dead nuts match for the Keen Kutter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marsh-45-Degree-Miter-Box-With-24-Atkins-Miter-Saw-dated-Oct-24-1911-/162021241529?hash=item25b937f2b9:gxoAAOSwZtJW-VU2


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## Poa

So…maybe mystery solved….the Keen Kutter was manufactured by Marsh…maybe….


----------



## Mosquito

I'd go with it. I haven't been able to find much about them though, it seems they were more common in the 45 degree picture frame saws than general miter saws…

Did find this advert though


----------



## drcoelho

This is the ultimate Mitre Box IMHO: http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/tools/jointmaker/jointmakers/jmpv2-jointmaker-pro.html


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I'm on one of those parts lots.


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## Poa

I hadn't noticed, Glen, that it had the long sought after pieces that you need. I wouldn't have ran my mouth had I of noticed. I hope you get it. Careful, though. For myself, I've noticed a propensity to throw all common sense out the window when I encounter a "EUREKA!!" tool or part. I find that particularly true in trying to stock my No. 902 tool chest. And its getting scary, because its down to the reeeaaalllyy hard to find items, like the SW nail set, or the mythical No. 50 screwdriver. I fear, with an opportunity to bid on that screwdriver, that I may end up with the screwdriver, but find myself living in a bush under a freeway overpass as a consequence.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Lol no worries. I am having trouble finding a decent 4×26 langdon branded saw. I have 4 boxes and three of them have 4.5-5" saws that won't fit my size 2 acme. I had hoped that should I not be able to find a saw I could retrofit the size 2.5 swingarm and guides to my size 2 box. It'll work, but I am not into that lot more than about $5 over opening bid, hint hint.


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## UpstateNYdude

> I hadn t noticed, Glen, that it had the long sought after pieces that you need. I wouldn t have ran my mouth had I of noticed. I hope you get it. Careful, though. For myself, I ve noticed a propensity to throw all common sense out the window when I encounter a "EUREKA!!" tool or part. I find that particularly true in trying to stock my No. 902 tool chest. And its getting scary, because its down to the reeeaaalllyy hard to find items, like the SW nail set, or the mythical No. 50 screwdriver. I fear, with an opportunity to bid on that screwdriver, that I may end up with the screwdriver, but find myself living in a bush under a freeway overpass as a consequence.
> 
> - Poa


I've never heard of this mythical screwdriver before, please do tell this tale.


----------



## Poa

Well, the 1934 Stanley catalogue says my No. 902 Sweetheart tool chest should contain a 3" No. 50 screwdriver. I've never seen one, or heard of anyone that has. But not only is it described as being included in the tool box, it is also listed in the screwdriver section of the catalogue. I still hold out hope, though, because these things have way of turning up eventually. Like the No. 04 SW zig zag rule I recently managed to trade for my left testi…uh….,oh, never mind.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> Well, the 1934 Stanley catalogue says my No. 902 Sweetheart tool chest should contain a 3" No. 50 screwdriver. I ve never seen one, or heard of anyone that has. But not only is it described as being included in the tool box, it is also listed in the screwdriver section of the catalogue. I still hold out hope, though, because these things have way of turning up eventually. Like the No. 04 SW zig zag rule I recently managed to trade for my left testi…uh….,oh, never mind.
> 
> - Poa


 LMAO… I'll keep an eye out for you I come along a lot of misc old tools, I'll take a peek through the pile of screwdrivers I've reaped in the last few months and let you know if I find your Excalibur.


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## Mosquito

Well, some digging and I found the 2 patents on that miter saw. Too bad the first one I found was the 1911 patent, and I started at the first search result for 10/24/1911 and it was like #540 something out of 613…

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=01006521&IDKey=33F44B6C972D&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.htm%2526r%3D545%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPALL%2526s1%3D19111024.PD.%2526p%3D11%2526OS%3Disd%2F10%2F24%2F1911%2526RS%3DISD%2F19111024

The other one I found a lot faster, as I started at the end of the list and worked my way back. It was number 400 something out of 600 something.

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=00840640&IDKey=2C90AFF689EB%0D%0A&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.htm%2526r%3D473%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPALL%2526s1%3D19070108.PD.%2526p%3D10%2526OS%3Disd%2F1%2F8%2F1907%2526RS%3DISD%2F19070108


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## CFrye

You are a man on a mission, Mos!


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## Mosquito

It was about 1.5 hours of searching I'd say, not too bad. I've certainly searched for info longer with less success…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That No. 50 is a Hurwood according to the 1914 catalog. That track with the later (1934) publication? I'm a huge Hurwood fan, will definitely keep an eye out for a 3" variety!


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## Poa

Yeah….on the 50. I have a few Hurwoods, and they're my go to screwdrivers. Thing is, with the 50 needed for this tool chest, it also needs to be a Sweetheart logoed tool. Some day, maybe, I'll find one under my pillow, left there by the Brain Cell Fairy. And the fact that I'm the only one that can see it won't bother me a bit.


----------



## Poa

Thinking I made a pretty good deal on this Langdon, at 75 bucks, shipped, I was sure dissappointed when it finally arrived. One of the elevator posts is busted, and the frame is cracked in two places. Worse, the socket that the swingarm swivels in is completely worn out, oversized, so the swingarm had a ton of slop. If anyone needs parts off it, holler. Thats all its good for. The swingarm components are good, as are the legs.


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## theoldfart

POA, I watched that one for a while and the seller did not disclose that damage nor was it in the photos. It seems to be a case misrepresentation on the part of the seller. It sure does suck.


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## Poa

Well, Kevin, Ebay is definitely a buyer beware shopping place. And in a case like this, I'm very reluctant to leave negative feedback, or place too much blame on the seller. Rather than an effort to mislead or swindle, there is an even chance that the seller may be simply unaware, unknowledgable, about what he or she is peddling. The cracks in the frame, and the slop in the swingarm coul miss notice by someone unfamiliar with such a tool. But the busted elevator post would seem to imply the seller did in fact mislead, as they stated the box was "in good condition". I have contacted the seller, and given them until Monday night to explain themselves to me, before I leave feedback. I am not really interested in the hassle of sending it back. I'll eat the seventy five, temporarily. Surely, eventually, someone will need parts off it, perhaps the stops and wing nuts, the legs, etc. And the saw, despite having a slightly less than full plate, has a very nice handle, and will clean up decently. Oh well….I can't expect to win them all.


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## theoldfart

Well depending on what happens i'd be interested in the stops and wing nuts.

To my mind whether the seller intentionally or unintentionally did not disclose the issues, they are obligated to make things right by you. You can let them know that I would not consider purchasing their merchandise based on your experience and I do watch ALL mitre box sales on the 'Bay.


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## duckmilk

Wow, this conversation is making me really leery about getting a miter box from the bay. I've wanted one for a while to use instead of the sliding arm delta I have now. I found a 150 and a 2348A? (or something, can't quite remember) about a year ago locally, both barely used and in great shape with 2 appropriate saws for the big box. Told the guy I would be back on Friday after I got paid if he would hold them for me. Guess what, gone.

Maybe after this tax season is over, I'll start the hunt over again. There's not much available in this area though.


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## Mosquito

3 of my 4 (sort of, the 4th one is still not in my possession yet) boxes were found locally for pretty good deals. It's just taken a while… like 5 years


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## GlenintheNorth

All four of mine were local finds as well.

It just turns out we have essentially the same local. I wonder how many more are out here that we don't know about?


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## duckmilk

Craigslist or just rust hunting? My wife has an aunt and uncle in Minneapolis. Maybe we need to go visit.


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## duckmilk

Apparently, early Texans bought their fine furniture elsewhere, cause hand tools are not easy finds here.


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## Poa

Well, this bad experience with this Langdon is the exception rather than the rule for me. I have bought quite a few off ebay, and, for the most part, have recieved exactly what I knew I was getting. Communication is important PRIOR to pulling the trigger. Also, concerns about shipping quality should be discussed. But there are sellers out there accurately describing what they have, and truly concerned about satisfying the buyer's wants and needs. I like to think I'm one of them, and try very hard to be. Usually, just by opening a line of communication, whether you're the buyer, or the seller, will tell you much about the person you are dealing with. This Langdon was the exception to that premise. Our pre-sale communication had no warning signs.


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## johnstoneb

Duck
I've bought 2 off the bay and been happy with both. A 2358 that just needed cleaned up. Then I had to by a saw for it as the saw I already had wouldn't fit. and a Langdon 74 The Langdon had the rear post welded up. I found that after cleaning everything up. I don't think the seller knew about that as I didn't see it until after reconditioning it. The weld was nickel rod and a very good job. I think the swing arm is bent slightly from the drop that broke the post. Just bought a complete swing arm on the bay. when it gets here hopefully that willl fix that one.


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## GlenintheNorth

Yup, that's the one I was bidding on 
Mine is a 73 and I technically didn't need the parts, though the replacement king bolt would have been welcome. I also need a better saw for it..all of the others I have don't fit that box. I'm going to look for a 4×26 langdon branded saw pretty soon.

Duck if you come up wait until garage and estate sale season, or perhaps for the May area meet in Hastings.


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## duckmilk

It'll be a while before we make that trip, unless one of her family dies.


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## Mosquito

One of mine was an antique store find, and the other two were Craigslist


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## johnstoneb

Glen
I probably won't need the king bolt when I get it I'll let you know.


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## theoldfart

Two of my best mitre boxes were bought on the bay. Most of the others were Craig's list or flea markets. One was Libert Tool.

POA, that big Langdon $750 BIN sold a few days ago.


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## Poa

Yeah, Kevin, I kinda thought it was down to where someone would bite on it. A shame you didn't get it.

Heres the skinny on the Langdon box…

The stops are fair, as are the thumbscrews. One of the elevator posts is good, the other is toast. The swingarm mechanism works well, but I can't really vouch for the swingarm, because of the slop. I can't tell if its the socket worn, or the swingarm, or both. I'd hafta mic the swingarm, and compare the measurement to one we know is good. The legs are good, as are the fence pieces. I have spritzed everything with a rust buster, and will try to dismantle it tomorrow.


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## terryR

> Apparently, early Texans bought their fine furniture elsewhere, cause hand tools are not easy finds here.
> 
> - duckmilk


Seems the same in Alabama!

Duck, for a complete box, just shop on eBay at poa's store! My plan!


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## JethroBodean

Personal pet peeve with regards to mitre box sellers. Improper box setup, while seeming passing themselves off as knowledgeable. How many times have you seen the saw placed backwards in the box!

This morning on our local Craigslist I noticed an ad for a '*miter saw (old school)*'. He described it as '*I have an old school hand operated stanley miter saw.*'. You can see in the picture below that he did not have the saw in backwards, but… I can almost hear him saying, '*I may as well sell it, darn thing never cut true angles anyway!*'


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## theoldfart

zig zag angles saw?


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## bandit571

Showing off both sides of the guides?

Around here, during Yard sale season, I have to watch out so I don't trip over all the mitre boxes…...all the ones I have bought were at yard sales…


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## DLK

poa has a store? What store?


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## Poa

Don….I don't really have a "store" per se. I selll boxes and parts on ebay, among other misc tools.


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## GlenintheNorth

I never tripped cover one…but for once maybe, but it was already in my garage


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## realcowtown_eric

I'm still looking for info on my dorn mueller mitre box. Specifically the "pamphlet" or copy thereof that all their adds mention….primarily so I can see an image of the "compound mitre attachments" methinks they may look like machinists v-blocks

From all I can gather, these just don't turn up- the gugus on the eastern sea-board ain't seen em in the wild either.

Eric in Calgary.


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## summerfi

Anybody need a short miter saw? I took this one in on a trade recently. It's a 1878-88 Disston based on the medallion and spine stamp. The plate is in good shape except for someone drilling a hang hole. It's about 3-5/8" under spine, and was likely 4" when new. This saw is a bit of an oddity because it has a 16" toothline. The shortest miter saw I can find in any of the old Disston catalogs is 18". Anybody seen one like this?


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## RWE

Summerfi:

I am a new member of Lumberjocks. I have a 50 1/2 Stanley. Probably a very late model (1909-1967) made in the 60's I would guess. I started following this thread after researching the 50 1/2. I would be interested in the Disston saw just to use as a back saw.

I do small furniture projects and could use a "tenon" saw. Is the plate straight. I do my own sharpening and that is a newly acquired skill. I have done about 8 to 10 Disstons, a Keen Kutter and some Warranted Superior saws. It is hard to find a good saw on Ebay as far as determining if the plate is straight enough to be made to cut well. i pick up my conventional rip and xcut saws at flea markets. I rarely run into a back saw. I don't know what the protocols are, but my email is: [email protected] if you wish to discuss. I don't want to blow up the thread with a lot of back and forth.


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## RWE

Summerfi:

I am a new member of Lumberjocks. I have a 50 1/2 Stanley. Probably a very late model (1909-1967) made in the 60's I would guess. I started following this thread after researching the 50 1/2. I would be interested in the Disston saw just to use as a back saw.

I do small furniture projects and could use a "tenon" saw. Is the plate straight. I do my own sharpening and that is a newly acquired skill. I have done about 8 to 10 Disstons, a Keen Kutter and some Warranted Superior saws. It is hard to find a good saw on Ebay as far as determining if the plate is straight enough to be made to cut well. i pick up my conventional rip and xcut saws at flea markets. I rarely run into a back saw. I don't know what the protocols are, but my email is: [email protected] if you wish to discuss. I don't want to blow up the thread with a lot of back and forth.


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## Poa

Bob…what makes that saw a "mitre saw" instead of just a 16" Disston No. 4? I have a No. 4 with a 14" plate.


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## bandit571

Bob's saw is actually an 18" saw, as Disston had a habit of adding that curved area under the handle, on the theory that the "missing" teeth were not needed on a mitre box. Happen to have a 28" saw, with a 26" long tooth line….it is still a 28" by 5" No.4…..as Disston made all their mitre box saws as No. 4s. It should also be an 11ppi.

Per The Disstonian Institute's site


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## summerfi

RWE - I'll email you tomorrow.

Poa - I considered this might be a tenon saw, but decided it is a miter saw based on: 1) the handle is boxy like a miter saw, 2) the heel end is clipped at an angle like a miter saw, and it appears to be done at the factory, 3) it is 11 ppi crosscut, which is standard for a miter saw. A tenon saw should be rip, 4) if the heel wasn't clipped off the plate would be about 17.5", which is an odd size for a tenon saw.

Bandit - I see that statement on Distonian Institute. Going by that maybe it is an 18" saw, though the actual length of the plate is more like 17.5". How do the rest of you figure the length of your miter saws, do you count the clipped off part in the length or no?


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## JethroBodean

Bob

Poa and I were just going over this a couple of weeks ago. I have always understood that the saw length is not necessarily the tooth line length, but is actually the longest length of the plate (with some fudge factor allowed). For almost all saws the tooth line is also the longest plate length. As a result most people use the tooth line length to determine the saw length. However with these 'clipped' heel miter saws, the longest measurement of the plate is hidden under the handle.










This picture shows a 30×6 (or is it a 6×30), you can see that the tooth line is roughly 28" where the overall plate length is roughly 30". I would call your saw an 18" miter saw. As far as I know, only the Mitre Saws had the clipped heels.


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## Poa

Jeff….had to chuckle at your comment about your frustration with internet miter box sellers. Remember the long discussion we had here about proper Stanley elevator post placement, where the spring should be, etc?? Well, checking my ebay listings the other day, I discovered this…..

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=232209671340&alt=web

....note that I have the front and rear posts mixed up, with the saw hangers mounted on the wrong posts as well. Kinda embarrassing considering the long discussion we had about it.

But…it gets worse. In a prior post, last week, I was crowing about a set of 4" guides that came in a box of parts I bought from the Meekers. These 4" guides allowed me to near complete a No. 346 bare frame I had recently restored. So, yesterday I decided to figure out which one of my 4" x 26" miter box saws I wanted to mate to the box. Picking up the first candidate, I attempted to slide the saw into the guides….hmmm…..did you know that a 4" plate won't go into 5" guides???? How the heck my head convinced me these were 4" guides is beyond me. It was extreme hallucinatory wishful thinking I guess, or dementia, senility, or…uh…an extreme application of "alternate facts".

Egads.


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## donwilwol

i think that " hallucinatory wishful thinking" gets us all at times


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## Poa

Just unpacked a complete No. 2358. Real nice box, in excellent shape at first glance. Taking it apart for cleaning, I was suprised that one of the cut stop rods was seemingly frozen in its storage position. Upon examination, I discovered that one of the legs was slightly twisted enough that it was binding the rod sufficiently enough to make it extremely difficult to remove. Loosening the screws that attach the leg to the frame freed up the rod, and I was able to remove it. With some trepidation, I marched the leg off to the bench vice to secure it for straightening. I note that in the old Stanley literature touting their boxes, one of the selling points is malleable legs that are not prone to breakage. This has always seemed suspect to me, as the idea of bending cast material just doesn't seem wise or tenable. Well, the leg straightened out like a lump of clay, with very little pressure. Suprised the hell out of me. Sure didn't "feel" like the kind of tensile resistance one would expect from a piece of cast metal.

On another note, this box came with a "like new" late issue Stanley/Disston 4" x 28" mitre box saw, very sharp and straight, real clear etch, zero finish breakdown on the handle. However, the plate at the heel measures 4", and 3-3/4" at the toe. I wonder about this, as the utility of such a plate dimension has escaped me prior to this time. I set the saw stops so that the saw's toothline, (when pushed fully forward) was slightly and evenly into the table kerf, as it should be. But when I drew the saw back towards me, when it reached the end of my back stroke, it was slightly out of the kerf. This dynamic allows a person to simply draw the saw back, to exit the kerf, to enable the swingarm to be moved without having to raise the saw. The perfectly straight toothline on the saw, the sharpness, the overall condition, and the utility of the "tapered" plate dimension, (heel to toe), maked me wonder if Stanley was shaping their miter box saw plates like this towards the end of their production. This saw definitety looks too pristine to have been used enough to require a sharpening.


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## JethroBodean

Poa - I won't say wrong about the taper of the plate, but I've never seen a miter saw with a tapered tooth line and it just seems 'wrong' to me. At just a quarter inch difference, my first assumption would always be that the toe end of the spine has been pushed down onto the plate. I don't think you'll know for sure without removing the spine.


----------



## Poa

Honestly, Jeff, it would suprise me, as well, if Disston was doing it. However, it works so well that I would consider doing it to the saws on my user boxes. Not on the double rod elevator post Stanleys, but on the standard post styles, 2346, 2358, etc.


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## dbray45

I have a couple of saws like that. I have a feeling that this was either from sharpening or design. Having the blade like that adds a lot of downward pressure when sawing. If there is little or no set, most of the cut is on the push stroke and the sawdust goes to the back.

I saw this on my Langdon saw first.


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## Poa

Yep. It seems to improve the performance of both saw and box.


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## Poa

I am very curious now about this saw's plate dimension. One would think, if the taper,(heel to toe), was due to the toothline having been jointed so severely during a sharpening, that the plate at the heel would be, at least, slightly under 5".

Sooo…...if any of you have a late issue 5" x 28" Stanley/Disston miter box saw, as pictured below, (same etch, knickel plated medallion and screws), wudcha do me a favor, and measure the plate at the heel and toe?

Oh, and btw, on my initial post about this saw I described it as a 4" x 28". I mispoke with an "alternative fact". It is actually a 5" plate. So, it actually measures 5" at the heel, and 4-3/4" at the toe.


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## bandit571

Measured the saw in my 358 box…...toe is 4-9/16" spine to tooth …..heel is 4-7/8" spine to tooth. Haven't measure the other 5" x 28" yet….yes, i do have two saws, both are Disston No. 4, with that same etch, and there is another in the spine.


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## JethroBodean

Poa - Correct me if I'm wrong, but for most Miter Saws, shouldn't the toe end of the plate be perpendicular to both the tooth line and the spine. If the tooth line is square to the end of the plate but the spine is not then I think you have a spine pressed too far in on the toe. If spine is square but the tooth line is not then I'd say that you have a tapered tooth line, but whether factory or due to sharpening is still up in the air.


----------



## Poa

Bandit…thanks. So the saw has a 5/16" taper, heel to toe. I'll be interested in what your other 5" x 28" measures.

Jeff….an interesting point you've brought up. And yes, on the saw that I started this discussion about, the end of the plate is square to the toothline. However, if the taper is by design, its seems to me it would be easier from a production standpoint if the plate was fabricated as a non tapered rectangle, and the taper was accomplished by its placement in the spine. I just measured 3 more 5×28s. Two of them have Stanley/Disston etches, and they both have an 1/8 of taper. The third saw, with a very clean plate with no discernable etch, has no taper.

Also, Its my understanding that most backsaws that are displaying a plate bow, do so because the plate has slipped in the spine. So, wouldn't it be a bit of a miracle if a plate was to move a full 1/4" into the spine at the toe, and not deflect the plate into having a bow?

I haven't a clue. Its not about being "right" or "wrong". But this 1/4" taper has sold me on its utility in this No.2358. As David points out, above, it pushes the dust forward on your cut stroke,, applies pressure downwards on your cut stroke, and lessens your effort on the backstroke. Of course, this is only true on your finishing strokes, when the your depth of cut is very near, and finally engaging, the stops.

Its also quite handy the way the toothline lifts out of the table kerf when the saw is pulled fully back, enabling movement of the swingarm without having to raise the saw and guides to the hung position.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, the other saw is a bit older, and is almost a full 28" on the tooth line ( 27-7/8" long)

Toe is 4-7/8" with the heel at 5-1/16"

It does have the same etches as the first saw has. End of the plate at the heel curves towards the rear, then curves toward the teeth. First saw has the "cut-away" curve. Both saws have 4 bolts ( counting the medallion) in the handles.


----------



## duckmilk

> Apparently, early Texans bought their fine furniture elsewhere, cause hand tools are not easy finds here.
> 
> - duckmilk
> 
> Seems the same in Alabama!
> 
> Duck, for a complete box, just shop on eBay at poa s store! My plan!
> 
> - terryR


Was planning to do exactly that Terry, maybe when I recover from tax season lol.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I'm bringing the GP all steel and Stanley 2246 to the meet on Saturday should anyone local be in attendance. Priced to go home with someone else; saws in good shape. I don't need 4 mitre boxes!

But I do love the saw with the GP and if it were a 4" I'd be keeping it…


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## JRsgarage

hi. mine's not really a mitre box but comes close. it's the stanley #100 with few #400 vices. only really use it for picture and mirror frames for gifts.


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## CL810

Lots to like in your pics JR, lots.


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## Poa

Just recieved what I believe to be an early, probably first generation, Stanley No. 246. I will be posting about it soon, because it has some pretty glaring differences than any of the other 246s I have now, and have had. One difference, that I've noted before on another box, is that the forward saw hanger must be manually engaged. It does not automatically engage the hanger plate when you raise the saw. You have to actually lift the lever to engage it. Much to my suprise, this saw hanger is stamped with "pat 10-5-09." Yet the box frame has the four 04 patents cast on it. The other box that I have with the same style hanger( albiet with no patent date) has the 10-5-09 patents on the frame. So….I think it is safe to assume that the saw hangers were patented and put in use about 1909. I believe the box I just recieved, with the 04 patent dates, was towards the end of Stanley using up the early frame and elevator post parts inventory, when they were just getting started with a new elevator post design incorporating saw hangers. So I would date this box right around 1909. It is the first box I have had that seems to solve a couple dating mysteries. And all becausd of the date stamp on this saw hanger. I think a guy could live well past 100, and still not figure out how to accurately date these, but hey, I'm tenacious.


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## duckmilk

So how many more years is that gonna take you Poa? ;-)


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## Poa

I figure by the time I'm 105 I'll have the colors figured out.


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## GlenintheNorth

> I figure by the time I m 105 I ll have the colors figured out.
> 
> - Poa


They're mostly blue.

Glad to be of service


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## Poa

And gray, and dark gray, and blue, and light blue, and biege, and black….and maroon. Did I miss any?


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## Poa

Man, I wish I had more answers than I do questions…

Heres some pics concerning the Stanley miter box I mention slightly upthread. I am now convinced it is an early No. 246.

Basically, it has pre-bearing guide castings, and the legs are pre-stop component, with no bosses or holes for rod storage. It also has the threaded plate that was mortised into the wood deck for utilizing the stock rest as a cut stop. On this one the deck had been replaced with a piece of teflon, but the guy that did it had the sense to fasten the plate to the underside of the frame so it didn't get lost.

What I'm curious about, is if anyone has a complete box, or near complete, that has the same elevator post mounting blocks and swingarm as this one does. The sockets in the swingarm are not tapered. The posts are locked in the swingarm by a stud that is threaded into the mounting block, and as it is tightened, it expands the busines end of the block. On this box, the front elevator post was brazed onto the swingarm, so I had to grind it off. I can save the swingarm, but it is going to take some tedious grinding to clean up the perimeter of the socket. Primarily what I am interested in is how these posts were capped. The caps are missing, and the hangers were fastened with what I assume are the original screws, albiet without the caps. They bottomed out before they tightened down on the hangers. So, I'd like to see what the caps were like, and whether or not a bridge bar was used between the two post assemblies on these early boxes. If you look closely at the last picture, you can see the patent date on the hanger. This is the only hanger I've seen that has it.

Also. If any of you have a box that has this plate mortised into the deck, I'd like to know the measurement to center, from the back fence, and from the stock rest dato, so I can fabricate a correct deck.


----------



## Poa

Evolution..

The three generations of Stanley elevator post mounting configurations, earliest, of course, on the left. The 2nd generation, (middle), should have a small thumbscrew securing the brass depth stop, (on the right side rod). Note the brass saw stop (on the left side rod) is secured with a countersunk screw. The depth stop, however, is not countersunk to recieve a screw head, because it was supposed to get the thumbscrew.

As far as dating goes, believe the 1st generation was manufactured from 1905 to approximately 1910. Still trying to figure out dates for the 2nd and third generation.



















And, still trying to figure out the caps used on the first generation post.


----------



## bandit571

Question about saws…..have two for the 358…









Thinking this is the older of the two…









With this as the "newer" one. Both have the same etches on the plates, and the spines….

Both are supposed to be 5×28 No.4 mitre box saws. Hmmmm?


----------



## Poa

Are both medallions identical?


----------



## bandit571

3 bolt is slightly smaller medallion..


----------



## Poa

Well, just judging by handle shape, mostly the horns, I think the saw pictured on the bottom is the older saw.

Just looked at my saws. All my 5" plates have four screw handles, with exception of one with a Sweetheart logo mitre box saw etch, that is a three screw. Whats odd, is that I have another Sweetheart logo 5 incher, that has a four screw handle. Both Disstons. And, the two saws have different style heels, just like your two saws.


----------



## donald_wa

The lower saw is pre 1918. The handle shape changed in '18 and they changed to four saw bolts in '29.
Don


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## Poa

So, my Sweetheart logoed 4 bolt is between 1929 and 1933, seeing as how the Sweetheart logo ended in '32. No telling on my 3 bolt SW plate, because its missing its handle. Unless, of course, Don, you have any idea what year they changed the shape of the clipped heel?


----------



## TheFridge

> Duck, for a complete box, just shop on eBay at poa s store! My plan!
> 
> - terryR


Duly noted


----------



## donald_wa

Poa, according to the catalogue pictures on the Disstonian site the clipped heel shows up in 1906. It looks like the other style came along about the same time as the four bolt pattern. No guarantees though. Don
PS Poa I have enjoyed your explorations of the Stanley boxes. Too bad we don't have the type studies like the planes do.


----------



## Poa

Donald…thanks for your responses. Fact is, theres no way I can gather and record, categorize and sort, the many variances and evolutions of these boxes without the help and participation of this small community. Thus far, I am beginning to wonder if theres an interest. I'm not discouraged, yet, but I am beginning to wonder. So its refreshing to read your bit of encouragement. Thank you.

So, on my Disston bare plate missing its handle, with the earlier clipped heel and the SW logo, the closest dating I am able to do would be between 1919, ( beginning Sweetheart era), and 1929, (when they went to four bolts). But, at least I know what handle shape to look for. But another bummer is the 3 bolt pattern, which I notice varies on the 3 bolt saws I have. There is a handle on ebay, quite cheap, the right shape, but the pattern doesn't match, as I had the seller measure it for me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Thus far, I am beginning to wonder if theres an interest. I m not discouraged, yet, but I am beginning to wonder.
> 
> - Poa


Poa, it's very interesting to me as well. Just so much information on so many different parts of each box that the sheer volume of minutia borders on overwhelming. It seems you've got a good handle on posts, and there's been discussion of legs and saws and even paint. Do you have enough to put together a basic type structure based on major components? And, how can we help?


----------



## DLK

There is a nice reference for Miller Falls Langdon Miter boxes here.
with photos of commonly missing parts. For example here are the parts photos for the 74C. I have used it to track down a few parts.

So you could write up something for the Stanley's similar to what this MF-L site provides.


----------



## summerfi

> There is a handle on ebay, quite cheap, the right shape, but the pattern doesn t match, as I had the seller measure it for me.
> 
> - Poa


On vintage Disston hand saws, surprisingly, each saw seems to have it's own slightly unique screw pattern. For example, a handle from one D-8 will probably not exactly fit the screw pattern of a different D-8, even in the same era of production. They will be close, but not exact. Presumably this is because the screw holes were cut by hand rather than on a machine template. I've never tested this on miter saws, but would not be surprised if it holds true.


----------



## donald_wa

Poa… saw handles are fairly easy to make. tgaig.com has a bunch of patterns including a Disston 3 hole miter saw. The patterns are in PDF and download easily. I print them off and use temporary spray glue to put them on the blank. Cut it out and cut the slot for the saw. finish fitting the saw to the handle and you will have a template to mark the bolt holes. Have fun and you can make a handle that will put a factory handle to shame. Don


----------



## Poa

Thank you Smitty, Don, Donald, and Bob.

Donald. Making a handle is an option, but not a priority. I have neen making sawdust now since I started my apprenticeship at 14. I'm now 65. I do use my homeshop occassionally for projects for myself. But seldom. Truth be known, when I'm done plying my trade for the day, the last thing in the world I wanna do is put my shop apron on. Currently, the remodel I'm doing the finish work on is an hour and a half away from my house. When I get home, I light a fire, eat, and hit the couch. That plate is gonna hafta live without a handle until the ever elusive "some day" arrives.

Smitty….at this point, I am trying to wade through a couple thousand comments, and glom whatever info I can out of them, that I do not yet know. At this point, the most helpful contributions would be for those that have boxes that I express questions about, to chime in with pictures, or comments that allow me to catalogue the correct configuration of that vintage box. The older the box, the more likely its missing parts, has broken parts, or has been turned into a Frankenbox. Coincidentally, I picked up a box today that seems to be the precurser to the box I discuss just a few comments above this one. It solves a mystery, and presents a couple of mysteries of its own. I now have figured out what that uncommon lever on the bottom front of the swingarm is for. It holds the swingarm "release lever" in its unlocked position. Mystery solved, although why you would want to do this is kind of a mystery by itself. I figure its so you can make the fine angle adjustments to the swingarm, via the small threaded studs on the side of the swingarm, without having to hold the release lever manually while you make the adjustment. Or….???

But note, this box only has three 1904 patents, instead of four like the box described above. So, mystery being, what feature was added that accounts for the fourth 1904 patent date? The fact that the three patent box is a franken box, and the four patent box is incomplete, makes it almost impossible to determine. So, if someone had a complete three patent box, or four patent box, see where it would be extremely helpful for them to chime in with pics and comments?

And I sure would like to see an intact saw hanger of this design.


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## bandit571

Along with the two saws I kept for the #358, I sold these two and the shorter saw on Fleabay soon after I had bought the saws. #58 came with 4 saws….the shorty was at another yard sale..a Penn Corp 22" by 4" 









I guess I kept the better saws?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, I'll check!

"...a complete three patent box, or four patent box"


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## JethroBodean

Poa - Patent 770,834 seems to be the 4th patent from 9-27-04


----------



## Poa

Interesting. It seems to be a patent covering all aspects of the box. Have you been successful at finding anything on the earlier patents?


----------



## Poa

Early patents that would be of major interest….

The various saw hanger configurations.

The elevator post mounting block configurations.

The introduction of bearings into the guide castings.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa
This was more than I was expecting to have to find! Next round is on you.

1-12-04
749,242

3-15-04
754,624
754,625

8-2-04
766,384
766,790
766,791
766,792
766,793
766,794
766,795
766,796
766,797
766,798
766,799

BTW: My preference is jet black Irish Stouts!


----------



## Poa

How the heck did you do that, Jeff???


----------



## theoldfart

The google foo is strong in this one!


----------



## Poa

I'm speechless. Have these been seen before here? I am in awe of Jeff's findings.


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## DLK

You two better collaborate and but together a blog.


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## Poa

Don…..

Don over at TTT has offered to donate a space on his site. Facebook is an option too. I also have a friend in Vegas that is an exceptional artist, and a whiz at website design. (Best water colorist I've ever seen, not that I need a water color artist. But an artist, definitely. If I did a site for miter boxes I would want it to be as attractive as it is informative.) And Jeff would certainly be an asset to such an endeavor.

So…I am mulling options.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Four patent box, saw hangar completely different.


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## Poa

Smitty….

Do you have to manually lift the lever, or does it automatically engage the hanger plate when you raise the saw?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Auto engages, definitely.


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## Poa

Thanks Smitty. I was just going through a couple of catalogues I have. A 1912, and a 1929. The pictures are helpful. I am beginning to think a comprehensive type study may in fact be feasable. And a parts interchangability index. But I need to get motivated to catalogue parts and measurements on every box that passes through. I have sold four in the last couple of months, and regret not taking measurements, notes, and pics before they went out the door. Currently I have seven complete boxes, and about five incomplete parts boxes. I really need to get off my duff and dissect and record what I've got, the differences, and similiarities. Jeff's patent finds pretty much lit a fire under my….well….anyway, thanks everyone that is contributing.


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## JethroBodean

Ok people, while I enjoy the accolades, the truth is that I cheat! And I want to give credit where credit is due. A few years ago I was stumbling my way through the interweb when I came across a link to a huge, 2800+ page PDF for US Miter Box Patents created by [email protected] (Not me, this is another Jeff)

The cover page of the document states the following:

*This document is an attempt to assemble all known
US Patents for Hand Saw Miter Boxes
Miter Blocks, Jacks, Saw Guides
Attachments & Accessories
Specific to Miter Saws

Power saw miter boxes have been removed *

Actually there is another PDF that might well be of interest to others in this group: Henry Disston & Sons

*Edited*
I just now found a page showing an email from Jeff Burks in Danbury CT where he is explaining what it took to create these PDFs. My hats off to Jeff Burks, thank you.


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## Johnny7

*Jeff*

Your honesty is appreciated.

Moreover, you still get credit for finding that PDF.


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## Poa

Amazing….what a tool this is for getting a handle on the Stanley boxes.


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## Poa

Less than an hour spent at Jeff's treasure trove, and some important dates uncovered. Its interesting that that funky saw hanger arrangement, that was used for 5 years, from 1905 to 1910, seemingly has so few surviving intact examples. The one I picture, up thread, is the most intact example I have seen, and the swinging tab on it broke off last night just in the cleaning process. It appears it was a very bad idea. I had begun to wonder if the two 1909 examples of the front hanger shape, that will not automatically engage the hanger plate, may possibly be bent. But they are not distorted in any way, and one of the patent drawings shows a fingertip touching the lever, so it is just as likely that the very first run of these required manual activation. The two examples that I have, that don't engage automatically, seem to hang free at a different posture than the ones that engage automatically. Below, you can see the extremely radical difference in hanging attitude between one that doesn't automatically engage, (top pic), and one that does. Seeing this, it seems unlikely that being slightly bent would result in this difference. One has to conclude that the early 1909 patented hangers required manual manipulation.


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## Poa

So, IF a guy was to do a site devoted to the Stanley boxes…..

What exactly would you guys, (those interested), like to see on such a site? Heres what I imagine…

1) Tips for correct usage, and proper set-up/tuning.

2) An ever evolving timeline, from the early Traut boxes up to the end of the line 1980's examples.

3) A patent undex.

4) A proper parts nomenclature list.

5)A parts interchangability list.

6) A color breakdown. (This'd be a tough one)

7) A saw category, listing dates and times of different manufacturers/suppliers, and mitre box saw evolution.

8) A category for shop built additions, such as carry boxes, bases, box/saw storage, etc..

Anything else?


----------



## KentInOttawa

A variation on #6 & #7 would be how the boxes have changed labels and tags through time. I know, for example, that some are cast into the top of the protractor (see #7 :-D) while others are metal tags riveted to the protractor or the right-hand end. Some of the metal tags have been black (dark) with white letters, some with (I believe) yellow letters and I've several blue ags with a diagonal red stripe (but I forget the exact letter colour.

You know, "while you're there, would you mind…"?


----------



## JethroBodean

This is just off the top of my head, but ideas and examples of 'missing' parts that have been fabricated would interesting. Maybe a general how-to suggestions for rehabing a box.


----------



## Poa

So…Jeff, would you be interested in collaborating in a website?


----------



## DonBroussard

Poa-Another "while you're at it". How about linking the manual with the boxes (a variation on your Numbers 3 & 4), and a link to all that awesome patent information posted up thread?


----------



## Poa

All good suggestions. And judging by the amount of suggestions thus far, there would be an interest. I'm still mulling it over, whether I want to take it on or not. Or, more accurately, whether I have the time for such an undertaking.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And it would be a huge undertaking as described. So what would the initial steps be, or the priority items? Anything that would come close to structuring a type study would certainly draw traffic, I think. More than any other. Towards that end, are there similarities across the major frame boxes that can be discussed / decided upon? It seems we get overwhelmed with detail very quickly, so deciding if those are variations or types is an important early accomplishment. And I'm happy to add to the OP above any kind of start or approach if it helps in any small way. Because I have exactly two boxes, and can't contribute much otherwise.


----------



## Poa

Well….

The first thing, I would think, would be to design the website's homepage, and determine which categories/topics a person is going to include immediately. An important aspect is going to be determining whether or not a complete lineage is available for inspection and depiction. I would bet, between all of us that are expressing an interest, we could come really close to having examples of every type/vintage up to the time they were discontinued. Also, should the site cover all the styles, such as 115s, 150s, etc.? Because the early Traut patent boxes, such as Kevin has, evolved into the no.50 and 60 models, I feel they should be included as well. It IS a huge undertaking. So the VERY FIRST question would be is it a collective effort, to what extent, and if so, how would we divvy up the categories? It seems to me that the least overwhelming way, individually, would be to take on one aspect of research, and limit your contributions to that single endeavor. Just as an example, someone could take the No. 50 and No. 60 style boxes, someone else could record relevent patents, etc.. Patience, and realistic expectations would be a necessity. Commitment, as well. So, I'm gonna mull it over for a few days, see if I really want to take this on, and talk to my artist friend about website design. Honestly, she's hot to trot. She loves design, and is damned good at it. Chime in, stay tuned.


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## duckmilk

Poa, my 2 cents;

Instead of making this an overwhelming endeavor all at once, why not just start with the older models first? You can get that category to your liking and then add on some of the next iterations, and so on. While you are doing that, you can start gradually putting together the first category you listed: "1) Tips for correct usage, and proper set-up/tuning."

It seems to me that this would allow you to concentrate on one part at a time. Who knows, you may draw in some input from others than the esteemed group that participates here.

Another possibility would be to do each manufacturer starting with the earliest models. That way if someone found a Langdon box (for example) he or she could go to the Langdon section for information.

Edit: Also be sure to give credit where credit is due.


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## Poa

Duck…..

Good suggestions all the way around, from everyone.

A confession…...

I have always operated off the artistic side of my brain. So, for me, the aesthetics of such an endeavor is as important, or maybe even more important, than the information aspect of it. My artist friend in Vegas is extremely enthused, and if I do this, I am really looking forward to the collaborative effort of not only trying to inform, but trying to create a visually pleasing experience as well. To give you an idea of how much this is a consideration of mine, I knocked on a local door about three hours ago. Why?? Well, the guy has a Model T flatbed truck, and in my mind's eye, I have been picturing an opening home page that has as its imagery an early 1900s construction scene, mitre box set up on the flatbed, with molding scraps laying about, perhaps a door in an old style door buck in the foreground, shavings, a number 8 with a jointer fence mounted..carpenter's apron hanging from the truck mirror…yadayada…blahblahblah…

If I invision columns of data, black and white, and dry commentary, my yawning makes its difficult to breathe, and I have to scurry over to Oxnard and go sailing. Some of us are sicker than others.

Come to think of it, I know another guy that has a Model A woody…..hmmmm…...


----------



## duckmilk

Hmmm…think of it as miter boxes are really works of art and beautiful things to see. The history is as important as the beauty.


----------



## donwilwol

I wish I could take my site to the heights you're talking about POA. But rust hunting, Restoring, researching, just trying to take reasonable pictures, taking things back apart to get comparison pictures !! Its exhausting just writing it down.

I've chosen to get the info out when I have it. Most of my.pages get updates every now and then. Sometimes I add an update note but usually forget.

It could easily consume all of your time, and I have a full time job, and when I retire I'll keep at it, but still don't want another full time job.

And I won't even mention expense. It's not quite as overwhelming, and can be somewhat alleviate with advertising. How folks can turn this into a for profit business completely escapes me.


----------



## Poa

Don…your site is fine the way it is. It doesn't need to go to any "heights", because it has already arrived there. My daily participation there is testimony to how much I enjoy it.


----------



## Poa

Details..details…..details….yikes.










From left to right….Type 1, (three '04 patents on frame). Type 2, (four '04 patents on frame), and last, the swingarm off a No. 3 frame (No. 346 box) with the brass tag mounted on the quadrant.


----------



## Poa

Some new revelations I'm chasing down. Found the patent for the one piece swingarm, as used on the 2346, 2358, etc.. The patent also introduces the bearings in the guideposts. I can't find a patent that addresses the introduction of bearings into the guide castings of the 240, 242, 244, etc. guide castings.

Also, in early advertisements of the Stanley boxes, a narrow throat in the back fence is listed as a selling feature. I note that this throat opening does in fact become widened at some point. Still trying to dertermine when.

And, lastly, (But not really lastly. Just for now, kinda lastly), prior to the introduction of the cut stop components, (Patented 1916), the legs are shorter vertically. These would be the legs that do not have the holes and bosses for storing the cut stop components. Also, these early legs were not equipped with the knurled and pointed thumbscrew that was intended to stop the box from sliding on the bench. So the back holes on the legs are not threaded.

Why does stuff like this matter? Well, for one thing, this information allows the determination about whether a box is complete, or not, when only viewing photos. Prior to examining the legs, and noting the differences, I would have considered a box that did not include the knurled screws in the back holes of the legs as being incomplete, rather than simply being an early model that did not have those screws.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa - I'm going back a few posts, but I thought, even though I can't match your etch, that I would measure all of my miter saws. Only one of my saws was taller at the toe. And 3 of the saws I have rehab'd, so they are now the same height at heel & toe. I'm not sure what you can determine from these measurements, but here you go.


ManufacturerSizeHeel
HeightToe
HeightDifference
Heel to ToeRehab'dWarranted Superior 24×4 4 1/164 1/160 
Warranted Superior26×43 15/163 15/160 
Warranted Superior28×54 15/164 7/8 - 1/16
Disston28×55 5 0 YesDisston28×54 7/8 4 7/8 0 
Simonds28×54 1/2 4 1/2 0 YesSimonds28×54 7/8 4 7/8 0 YesWarranted Superior28×55 5 0 
Disston30×54 5/8 4 5/16- 5/16
Warranted Superior30×54 13/164 9/16- 1/4 
Disston30×65 3/4 5 5/8 - 1/8 
Disston30×66 1/8 6 - 1/8 
Warranted Superior30×65 15/165 7/8 - 1/16
Disston30×65 7/8 5 15/16 1/16


----------



## dbray45

Having a toother and seeing how it works, if you retooth a blade with the tote on, it can be real a problem. I screwed up a tote leaving it on the blade. It is much easier to leave the tote on the blade and offset the rail to not interfere with the tote making the blade smaller at the toe. It also makes a more aggressive cut.

Jeff - I would guess that your blades have been well cared for over the years.

Just a thought.


----------



## Poa

Typically, it takes about ten minutes to dismantle a Stanley swingarm. Another five minutes knocking off any grime, saw dust, oil, etc, before it goes in the evapotank. Ten minutes rinsing and drying the small parts. Figure ten to fifteen minutes rinsing, drying, wire brushing, and solvent washing. Vaseline masking, five minutes. Spraying with paint, ten minutes accumulated, two coats. So what do we have? Right around an hour to restore a Stanley swingarm. Well I just spent two hours on one, and it still isn't really up to snuff. Why?? Because it is the last generation, the notorious piece of crap that they designated the "A" box. In this case a No. 2344A. It is astounding how evident the complete loss of quality is on these "A boxes". The castings are extremely poor, the machining sucks, and getting one to operate smoothly and accurately is an exercise in frustration. And its a roll of the dice. I have rebuilt three A boxes. And two were a pain in the ass, and one went very smoothly. My advice? If you are looking for a mitre box, avoid the "A boxes."


----------



## Poa

Jeff…thanks. I've pretty much become convinced that a tapered plate, like we have been discussing, is the result of jointing and sharpening, and not a factory designed better mouse trap. BTW, my email was hacked yesterday, so if you shoot me any emails at the address you have, I won't get them. PM me if you see a need for my new one.


----------



## Poa

So….I've made a decision. I am not going to do a Stanley mitre box site at this time. I just don't feel like I currently have the time to devote to such an endeavor. I will keep compiling info and data, and perhaps in the future I'll reconsider.

Meanwhile, my search for parts and information goes on, heres some of the boxes I am currently working on completing, so if any of you have parts donors, holler via PM.


----------



## Poa

Weird…the pic on my post, above..seems to have disappeared. And I can't seem to load another one. Hours later…..its back!


----------



## KentInOttawa

POA: It seems to be a site-wide issue. Maybe later…


----------



## bandit571

Amazon is dragging the internet down….

Picked a complete 2246A today, except for the saw..MIA. Need to find the 4×26" saw, sometime.

Price, counting tax…$16.09…....would have liked to have gotten the saw, too. Box is complete, even the length of cut stop is there. Will need some clean up…..rust hunt find at an Antique Store today….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Poa, I certainly understand the decision to 'not pursue.' History is on your side; it hasn't been done yet for a reason, right?


----------



## DLK

No worries POA, we had to try and convince you to try.  Probably needs to be done by the collective under the direction of a good manager. Still takes dedication time and hard work.


----------



## terryR

Probably needs some retired dude who is a snap with databases.

I still say Thanks for all i've learned from your efforts so far, poa


----------



## bandit571

Testing, testing..









Today's pickings..









Hope I can load a few more..









And one more









Was complete, other than a lack of a saw…#2246A


----------



## Poa

Bandit…I just came by a 2244A, but its missing the cut stop and the stock rests. (Its in the picture a couple posts up from here). Also missing the guide springs that hold the posts in the up position. But I have a set on the way. Needless to say, you got a good deal on a complete box. However, I have fought a couple of the "A boxes" as far as tuning and truing goes. The casting and machining, true to the other later Stanley stuff, just doesn't seem as precise and clean as the earlier stuff. I kinda group these A boxes in the same category as the Stanley Type 20 handplanes. Not saying they can't be tuned, just saying they seem to require a bit more hassle to get there. Then again, maybe I just got ahold of a couple lemons. I did have one A box that tuned up pretty easily. If you restore yours, I'll be interested in how smoothly the tuning goes.


----------



## bandit571

Need to find a decent saw to fit it, first. Tried it with an 18" saw Cuts nice and square, haven't tried the angle stuff, yet. The 5×28 saws I have? will not even fit. Had to look where the latches attach to…..NOW I see.

Someone had coated the entire box with some sort of white powder…..been an easy clean up. Some rust along the back…normal. May sand those to clean the rust. This is what, a 1960s era saw?


----------



## Poa

Not sure, Bandit. But I think they're later even than 60s. They made these boxes into the 80s, and the A boxes were the last generation. I found a Stanley ad from 1973 for a No. 2358, and they still hadn't tacked the "A" designation on them.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, more on the new box..









Could not figure out why the front post would not go all the way down…until I found this sticking out of the bottom of the post…...took this off, post will go all the way down. 









Cleaned this stop off, bolt, washer and all. Figure out I could mount it like this, and cut short pieces…









Part was sliding back a bit….cleaned and re-installed the "pointy bolt" 









That silvery little spot. I had to clear the rust out of it's threads, and added a drop of 3in1 oil. 









Not sure about some of these parts. The rectangle "washers" are grooved on one side. One has a smaller, threaded hole for the smaller bolt. There is a washer and a lock washer with the smaller bolt. Somehow got the mess cleaned up, and re-installed..









As for the spring catch to hold the guides up..









And, no, I can't put the back guide into the front guide's place, the notch for the spring latch is different. Rear has more of an angle to it. (tried it out) 









Might keep the 2246 for small stuff like moldings, and save the 358 for larger items? May store the 2246 under the bench, as I MIGHT have a shelf for it, now.


----------



## DLK

Thats a reason to have more then one box. Well I might need to find another.


----------



## Poa

Bandit. That stud and nut belong on the front post. You back the nut off, then thread the stud in until your saw's toothline is slightly in the table kerf. Then lock the stud in place with the nut. The idea is that when you depress the release lever to move the swingarm, it lifts the toothline out of the table kerf. At that point you can set your post stop, which is the uppermost serrated rectangular washer. (Or, you can do it in the opposite order, the post stop first, then the stud/nut combo.)


----------



## bandit571

Road trip today…met up with a fellow that had a Disston/ HK Porter 4×24" saw…..









Etch is fully readable. Saw seems to be about the same age as the mitre box. As soon as I can haul this heavy thing down the steps to the shop…...and maybe do a test drive…..will see how it goes. Not sure I really NEED the extra 2".......


----------



## Poa

Bandit….might be interested, down the road, in trading you for a 26 incher for your box. The 24s aren't as common, and can be kinda difficult to locate when needed for a 2344 or 244. Is the etch a Disston etch, or a Stanley/Disston mitre box saw etch?


----------



## bandit571

Etch says it was expressly made for Stanley Mitre Boxes. Size was even etched at the bottom of the Etch….4×24

It has a Disston HK Porter stamp on the spine, as well. Medallion is a Disston USA.

Teeth are worn a bit, still have a bit of set. Needs better eyes than I have, to sharpen it back up. Plate is as straight as can be.


----------



## bandit571

Found a place about 30 miles away, that can sharpen saws like [email protected] $0.60 / inch…...since I have trouble even seeing the teeth…..might as well have someone that can, do the work.

Saws with up to 7-8 ppi, I can do…above that….nope. Might take one of the D-8 crosscuts along…..just to see how it does.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, still haven't sent the saw out for sharpening..yet. I did give the mitre box and saw a work out tonight..









The Before the cut…









And the After the cut. Check the time stamps. Imagine what this will be when the saw is sharpened up? 









Close up of the handle, medallion is a Disston USA. The etch needs a little gun blue to better stand out, but..









Clipped corner Stanley logo. "Made expressly for Stanley Mitre Box saws by Disston "

Wonder IF I should send all of these to be sharpened?









At $16 a saw…....might take a few trips….


----------



## BlasterStumps

I wanted to share a couple pictures of my new-to-me mitre box. It was made same same as the Stanley 150 however, it was sold originally as a Wards Powr-Kraft probably in the '60s. I have a few different saws that will work in it but the one that seems to work the best for fine cuts is the LUX shown in the pictures.


----------



## Poa

Blaster…very nice. Did you do a restoration, or was it in that shape when you acquired it?


----------



## BlasterStumps

> Blaster…very nice. Did you do a restoration, or was it in that shape when you acquired it?
> 
> - Poa


I wiped it off with some WD-40 on a rag, cleaned up the nickeled parts and replaced the wood with some maple. Then I adjusted it so the saw cuts plumb and true to angle. I sure like it. I think I will have to find a place under my bench for it so it will be close at hand when I want to use it.


----------



## WayneC

I picked up a couple of boxes over the weekend. Looking forward to putting them back to work.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice mitre box set. What do those saw guides have in them for the saw spine to ride on? I haven't seen that style before. I have some Langdon Acme boxes that have bronze oilite bushings. I have rotated some of them in their sockets to give the saw back more to ride on. Can't help but think the bearing style would have been better.
Here's a pic of a couple of those boxes.









One is a Craftsman and the other is Millers Falls. I have a third (another MF) that I am going to refurb but it is all apart at this time. It's fun trying to find saws for the different boxes.


----------



## WayneC

It does not look like there is any form of bearing.


----------



## Poa

Good score, Wayne. The 150s are rarely found complete with the cut stop pieces.


----------



## CFrye

I like the wave you put on the front of the maple, Blaster!
Is this the cut stop piece?










Wayne, does the boxed box need disassembled to fit in the box?


----------



## Poa

Yes, Candy…..thats it. When not needed, it stores on the back of the fence.


----------



## BlasterStumps

CFrye writes: "I like the wave you put on the front of the maple, Blaster!"

Thanks CFrye but I can't take all the credit for it. My wife actually suggested the curved board. She is usually right : )


----------



## bandit571

Gave the old 358 a workout the other day…









Had some 1×4 Poplar to cut to length..









Still waiting on a couple saws to come back from being sharpened…..


----------



## JethroBodean

Bandit - While I love seeing the 358 being used. I'm enjoying the peek at the rack of planes and braces behind the saw; nice. Can't wait to hear what you think about the sharpened saws.


----------



## bandit571

Why peek around?









Here you go…..


----------



## DLK

I thought this was a clever way to get a handle on your miter box:


----------



## CFrye

I saw that posted somewhere else, Don. I do intend to borrow that!


----------



## DLK

It is for sale on e-bay. Maybe that is where you saw it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

At $295 it's gonna be for sale a long time. Absolutely love that box and handle concept though.


----------



## CFrye

I found it. Don W posted it (from Facebook) over on Timetestedtools.


----------



## Tim457

That is a good idea, and not that hard to make. The pictures on Don's site have larger versions that you can click to get and save.


----------



## DLK

> At $295 it s gonna be for sale a long time. Absolutely love that box and handle concept though.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Yes a longggggg time. I bought my MF-langdon box with saw and had it shipped for under $100 total.

Here is the e-bay link with larger photos.


----------



## Poa

I agree that it probably won't sell at 295. But, I have found that boxes will draw a fairly decent price if one is patient. The bummer, of course, is shipping. To ship a Stanley box and saw across the continent runs right around 70 bucks, not including materials and time. I have shopped the options, and that is about the cheapest it can be done. Fedex ground. I have shipped them closer. From my place in Cal, to Utah, was 48 bucks, again, fedex ground. But even with high shipping cost, they do sell. I have moved seven of them in the last three months, all Stanleys. My Stanley parts inventory is still growing, so feel free to contact me if you need anything for your Stanley boxes. Never know, might get lucky.

I saw that travel case when it first was listed, and thought it was an excellent idea. I had been playing with my own ideas in my head, and have to admit the designer of that one went in a better direction than I was headed. An advantage that the no. 246, 358, 360, etc, Stanley boxes will have is the ease that the guide posts can be removed and stowed, substantially lowering the profile of the carrying case. I look forward to finding the time to combine my ideas with that design, and putting one together.


----------



## DLK

I got mine shipped cheap enough because I had a fellow LJ, break it down so that it would fit into a box that was also filled with other tools.

I think I may make that travel case or similar. For then I might use it. Now I have to dig it out from the bench shelf. A PITA. So I just use the SCMS.

I may make the wings detach able so that it takes up less real estate when set up on the bench. But then again if I were to set it across saw horses. The wings would be helpful. Damn ideas are pounding in my head. Make it stop. LOL


----------



## RWE

POA:
I had an 1889 Patent HC Marsh picture frame miter box jump into my lap. I have been lurking on this Miter Box thread for several months. I was telling a friend (my sawyer) about the thread and he says I have one of those miter boxes come by and get it. The problem is that it only had one saw guide (my term, correct me with the proper term if I am wrong). The guide is 3/4 inch thick, round, total length is 7 3/8, would take a 4 inch (below the back) saw. I have noticed that some of the Stanley's have a similar type of round guide. Do you have any spare guides (3/4 inch diameter, top is 15/16ths where the back goes through) that I could use in the Marsh, or one like the one that I do have. Email me at [email protected] I don't have the hang about posting here or putting up pictures. I can email back pictures of the guide and the miter. If you or anyone else has an interest in the Marsh, I would discuss a trade for a saw, backsaw or handsaw. I have a Stanley 50 1/2 miterbox and my shop is so small, I don't know if I can keep two miterboxes. Anyone have saw guides that would work in the Marsh?



> I agree that it probably won t sell at 295. But, I have found that boxes will draw a fairly decent price if one is patient. The bummer, of course, is shipping. To ship a Stanley box and saw across the continent runs right around 70 bucks, not including materials and time. I have shopped the options, and that is about the cheapest it can be done. Fedex ground. I have shipped them closer. From my place in Cal, to Utah, was 48 bucks, again, fedex ground. But even with high shipping cost, they do sell. I have moved seven of them in the last three months, all Stanleys. My Stanley parts inventory is still growing, so feel free to contact me if you need anything for your Stanley boxes. Never know, might get lucky.
> 
> I saw that travel case when it first was listed, and thought it was an excellent idea. I had been playing with my own ideas in my head, and have to admit the designer of that one went in a better direction than I was headed. An advantage that the no. 246, 358, 360, etc, Stanley boxes will have is the ease that the guide posts can be removed and stowed, substantially lowering the profile of the carrying case. I look forward to finding the time to combine my ideas with that design, and putting one together.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## bandit571

Pictures would help…

Ok, Road Trip this morning to pick up the two saws. and drop off a couple other saws that needed sharpened up.

Have tried both of the saws in their mitre boxes…..glass smooth cuts! Price for the two saws to be sharpened up was $30.17 counting OH Sales Tax. Very sharp saws now. The two I dropped off? No. 4 backsaw 12", 11ppi, and a D-8, 8ppi crosscut. I didn't see any machines for the sharpening, either. Might have been hand sharpened?

Will ask next time I'm over there.


----------



## nakmuay

I kind of considered mitre boxes cheating. But this thing is great!









I only even considered them after reading this thread a couple of weeks ago, then I saw a reasonably priced one with two blades.I had to make a new handle to replace the crappy plastic one, other than that she's as good as new.

Now to find an old Stanley I guess!!


----------



## Tim457

Nice job on that handle, very interesting design.


----------



## Poa

Nakmuay…

Curious as to why you have targeted a Stanley box for your next acquisition. What is it about the Stanleys that you find desirable? And, do you think you would rather have the rod style guide posts, or the cast style guide posts?


----------



## nakmuay

Function is the most important thing that's why I make loving the nobexs at the moment, but it's not the prettiest objects in the world. The guide rods are steel but most everything else feels like aluminium. The accuracy it pretty much spot on, but it's also dam near unused. Time will tell how the plastics and aluminium hold up. Some of the older Stanley boxes are beautiful, if I could get a nice old cast iron piece with a back saw I'd be happy. I guess it's just sentiment as much as anything else.









The handle the same as the plastic one supplied but with with a hook shaped around the bottom of the hand, and indents around the top for the thumb web nothing too crazy


----------



## onoitsmatt

I saw a Lion Miter trimmer at a local antique shop today for $100. Haven't seen one in person before. Pretty cool tool and hard to walk away from.


----------



## Poa

Heres a first. Every time I think I'm getting a handle on these Stanley boxes, they throw me a curve. Tim sent me a batch of parts, and I'm in the process of cleaning them up. The parts are off a No. 246, Sweetheart logoed box. Lo and behold, the brass stops on the guide post rods…well…they ain't brass, they're steel. Wartime, I suppose, when brass had more important things to do. But these are the first steel stops I've seen. Anyone else got 'em?


----------



## bandit571

All of mine are Brass….#358


----------



## Poa

SENILITY ALERT !!! SENILITY ALERT!!!!

I got my wires crossed (it may be a permanent short).

Tim's guideposts, the sweetheart logoed box, had brass stops. It is actually a 346 box that has the steel stops. Which makes the wartime premise far more solid. I've got the components for 4 different boxes under various stages of restoration, and I think I am beginning to hallucinate, and develop tremors….I may change obsessions, and take up restoring dust mops.

Heres the correct tag to go with the steel stops…


----------



## bandit571

Test drove the sharpened 4×24 saw in the 2246 box today….









Used a few screws to hold the box in place on the bench….I placed one on a back leg, front one raised up…until a screw held it down….feet might be bent a tad…..
2×4 x 8' was cut down to get three @ 25" long….









Not too bad? Yes, that is a nail out on the end of the saw's spine…..keeps me from pulling the saw back too far…


----------



## Poa

Bandit. I routinely take the tweak out of the cast legs. When I first ran across a bent cast leg, I was really reluctant to try to straighten it. Being cast and all, I figured it would be brittle, and easily broken. But seeing as how one of Stanley's talking points in their advertising was "malleable unbreakable legs", I chanced tweaking on one. And sure 'nuf, they bend and straighten without cracking or breaking. And, BTW, the cast legs will fit on a box such as your 2246, that has the bent steel legs. As far as the bent steel legs go, I have found that removing them, and then tweaking them until they match perfectly sitting next to each other is easier than tweaking them while they are fastened to the frame, and results in a much better looking result. Gives ya an excuse to give 'em a fresh coat of paint too.


----------



## bandit571

It was the left side's feet doing all the trouble. Don't have that shade of blue in the shop, right now.

Saw seemed to cut better with the heel lower than the toe…..not sure why.

Wasn't enough room to use the 358 this time around…..maybe next time?


----------



## Poa

Bandit…do you still have a spring on the toe end guide post? Try removing that spring, and I betcha it'll solve your issue about the heel of the saw dipping.


----------



## bandit571

The 2246 has no springs…..

The 358 does, and I can still bottom out between the guide rods…..


----------



## Poa

Chuckling….

See! Told ya it was a full scale senility alert.


----------



## theoldfart

So here's a Langdon mitre box you may not have seen.



























And it works quite well!


----------



## Johnny7

Geez Kevin, seeing as I put you onto these, I expected at least advance notice of your find.

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/3341874

Great catch!


----------



## theoldfart

And I do thank you for the education J7! I just tripped over the listing and didn't even think, just clicked buy-it-now. I don't normally do that.

Edit: Wanted to get this one as well but moved too slow!


----------



## WayneC

Very cool.


----------



## theoldfart

I also dream of one of these


----------



## WayneC

Jim has some nice stuff. He posted an amazing set of tools he acquired last weekend on Facebook.


----------



## theoldfart

I think someone on this thread found a Dorn. A very intricate and ornate tool.


----------



## MrWhit

In the process of restoring one as we speak. Was given to me as a freebie when I bought an adze and a couple of auger bits.


----------



## bandit571

Had to use the 358 today, again. Was having trouble cutting tenons…..until I set the depth stops on the mitre box.

Set to cut to the depth needed for the tenon, I did find out that one holds the guides up a bit to set the stops just right. Raised until the bearings in the guides are rubbing the saw's spine.

I sawed down on the first one until I hit a stop line. Raised the depth stop up until the guide's bearings are touching the spine of the saw. Next cut, the saw will stop sawing when the guides hit the stops ( front and back need set) and the spine rub the bearings.

That recently sharpened saw is working very nicely, BTW…


----------



## CFrye

Nice one, Kevin!


----------



## Johnny7

> Edit: Wanted to get this one as well but moved too slow!
> 
> - theoldfart


Now we're even-I have never before seen an A.D. Hughes miter box!


----------



## bandit571

Depth stop set up..









Only need this one on the front, and one like it on the back…..
They tend to hold the saw up a bit..








May leave it set up like this for awhile…


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## theoldfart

Pricey but pretty neat. It the second time listed, guess it didn't sell the first time.


----------



## Poa

Kevin, your link is busted. Takes ya to plastic. By the way, finally remembered to box up the Langdon parts for you. I'll get 'em shipped next week, if the postal service hasn't been erased.


----------



## theoldfart

No idea how that link got there And can't seem to fix it.


----------



## DLK

Your link always worked for me.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

It works for me. Pretty cool box. And it's driving distance from me to boot.

Well…day trip driving distance, anyway!


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## papadan

I've got a couple of miter saws, but have never in my life dreamed of one!


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## FrankonThetis

Picked this little gem up today for my son. Stanley 150 for $55, seems complete except wooden deck. Has metal stop for repeatable cuts and some type of roller on back where saw would run.


----------



## Poa

Good score on the 150. I have yet to run across a complete 150. Always seem to be missing the roller and the cut length stop and thumbscrew.


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## FrankonThetis

Was surprised to see no damage to frame and the various thumbscrews in place. The cut length stop has a wing nut holding it but the bolt fits the hole so think it is original. Poa, the roller head is knurled metal but what is the other material on that roller.


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## theoldfart

On the original Stanley mitre box the rollers were made of lead. Nice score on the 150.


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## bandit571

Mine must have been worn out, all it had was a well chewed up wood roller









Kind of a small box…


----------



## FrankonThetis

tof, thanks for that info. Will have to check more closely as the recessed section of the roller looks soft and quite different to the knurled area.

Bandit, was your roller all wood or just the front section? This one is held to the frame with a small bolt. Yes, compared to my 358 and old Goodell it is smaller but still a heavy sucker.

Another question would be are the thread sizes on the 150's odd like the 358's?


----------



## bandit571

Roller was all wood, held by a bolt.

Stanley bolts…..yep, they be weird ones. That stop's bolt, can be replaced by the same bolt used on a Stanley #78's depth stop, right down to the washer.


----------



## theoldfart

Here's two pics of the lead wheels from my two early Stanley's.

The first, not surprisingly, has a lot of wear








The second for some strange reason has none. The box is over 130 years old!


----------



## FrankonThetis

One should obviously avoid cursory glances at vintage equipment with 70 yr old eyes! The roller on this 150 is like Bandit said, wood, held by a screw or bolt. Like the lead idea though. tof, does it damage the saws teeth?


----------



## CFrye

I was wondering about that roller. I thought the one on mine was severely corroded metal. Then I got a closer look at it (touched it, actually) and was surprised to discover it was wood! (So, it's not just 70 year old eyes, Frank!)


----------



## theoldfart

Frank, lead's pretty soft. Also some boxes have stops on the upright saw guides to limit the saws lower limit.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Okay, thanks. My son can decide how he wants to replace the roller. Will mention the lead option.

Candy, funny how eyes can deceive!


----------



## Marcial

Admittedly not just a miter box, but works like a charm in that capacity. I get good results with my Kapex powered saw but feels anxiety provoking with small frames at the 45 degree setting. Also intermittently get tear out with some woods. This is a much safer saw for small pieces. 








My first project was to replace one of the first frames I made. While no one criticized it, it was a recurrent irritation when I had occasion to look at it up close. A composite close up of the 4 miters of original frame:








Here is corresponding composite of the frame made using the Bridge City Tools Jointmaker SW:








No trimming, angle adjustment required. While expensive, I could afford it as an previously owned but unpacked eBay purchase and making a stand with materials I had in the shop rather than buying the BCT option.


----------



## BlasterStumps

When I cleaned up and adjusted the Powr-Kraft box I recently acquired, I also added a wood roller to stop the saw from cutting down any farther. I found a shoulder bolt and made the piece of dowel so it fit the bolt and attached it. works good. Some of the Stanley Mitre boxes I have have bur screws through the back upright. I really like them on the bigger boxes so I added one to the Powr-Kraft. It works great. This size miter box is really handy.


----------



## Poa

Kinda nice score today on a pickin' run. Complete, except for one of the little pointed screws that go through the back fence to hold your stock from slipping. Even has the clamp for the saw spine that disengages the saw hanger, as well as the original Stanley /Atkins Sweetheart 5" × 28" saw with s clear etch. Should clean up real nice.


----------



## theoldfart

Wow, original box! Nice, nice score.


----------



## bandit571

Picked another 4×24 saw today…









$7 for the saw, $4 for the little drill…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, that box is Da Bomb, Poa! Seriously, Wow.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I remember when poa used to complain that there was nothing near him at all


----------



## FrankonThetis

Nice find Poa. In the 3rd pic looking into the box looks like a screw/bolt in the back leg and 2 others lying loose. Wonder if the purpose of those screw/bolts in the back feet is to level the unit? Used #8 wood screws to fasten my 358 to 1" plywood base in all four feet but it came with a couple of threaded bolts similar to what is lying loose in your wooden case.


----------



## Poa

Frank…originally those knurled cap screws were pointed, designed to stop the box from sliding around on the bench while in use. Most of them have lost the point over the years, but I have found an occassional one that is still pointed.


----------



## Tim457

Wow that's really cool and in good shape. I've never seen a box for a mitre box before.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I've only seen three. Here's one for a Langdon


----------



## DLK

Glenn that box is rather cool. It is curious that you can see the saw handle in the first photo, but no slots for the saw blade are to be seen in latter photos.


----------



## CFrye

Cool mitre box boxes!


----------



## Poa

Interesting that the wooden box draws so much interest. Frankly, it just doesn't really tweak my senses much. The spine clamp, in all honesty, excites me more than the wood box does. Finding a complete SW No. 358, with its original Atkins, is the tittilater for this tool nut. I mean, hey, were the wooden box not suspect, in too many ways, it might be a different story. But I'm pretty sure that the only pieces of the box that are original are the ends, the sides, and the bottom. The lid doesn't feel right to me. I can't make out the faded lettering on it, but it seems far too wordy. And the hardware I can almost guarantee is not original. The SW Stanley hardware was always stamped "Stanley" with the heart, and I see no such stamping on this hardware. The lid's interior cross pieces collide with the saw handle if the saw is placed in the box toothline down, and theres really no other way to put the saw in the box without it flopping around in transport. So, to me, the box is kinda neat, but not the attraction.

I guess maybe my interest in these mitre boxes isn't the same as the interest many others exhibit for them. I find it hard to percieve the Stanleys as collectors items, particularly after the introduced bearings into the guides. Some of the earlier ones, I can understand a collector having an interest in. For instance, I have a forward saw hanger that is stamped with a 1904 patent. Only one I've ever seen. I can imagine a box having unique details such as that being collectable. But generally, my satisfaction with these boxes is derived from the restoration process, and returning them to service, complete, and functioning as they were intended to function. And this wooden box, neat as it may be, serves no purpose towards that end.

Point being, the box components are loose enough that it would dismantle rather easily. It could be shipped in a fairly flat box, dismantled, with a schematic for reassembly. If anyone is interested, let me know. I doubt, after the mitre box is restored, I would be including the wooden box as a selling point anyway. It only adds shipping wieght, with no utility.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That box is the kind of ephemera I love, so I'll seriously consider the offer to purchase. I actually wonder if the end labeling can (should?) be taken literally, as in, it was a box of mitre box saws? It's obviously too long to hold just a mitre box securely. I can see having that box full of saws. Or even having that box hold six (?) disassembled mitreboxes as they were shipped to the retailers in lots. I wonder.


----------



## Johnny7

> I can see having that box full of saws.
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


For what it's worth, this was my first thought also.


----------



## DLK

I think "the wood box" is a novelty. Rare enough that it peaked interest.


----------



## Poa

Smitty….honestly, I think the box was designed for one mitre box with saw. Remember, the mitre boxes were sold with a saw, so any packing box would need to be of a length that accomodates the saw. This wooden box seems to be the right length to serve that purpose. Also, I recall, a few months ago, a guy had a packaged Stanley, NOS, in a wooden box. Pretty sure it was on Ebay, but not positive. And the box was full of coarse wood shavings as packing material. I don't think the packing boxes were intended as job boxes. I think, basically, they just served the same purpose that a cardboard box would serve today. But regardless, later today I'll post better pics of the wooden box, and comment about some details of this SW miter box that I've not seen before.


----------



## Poa

On another note, a comment about the Stanley mitre box colors. Still trying to figure out how the colors mesh with vintage, and not sure I ever will. Theres two different shades of gray, three different shades of blue, and a maroon red as well. And this box mentioned above, the SW, it is a blue gray I haven't seen before. Confusing..

But anyway, I have been avoiding the lighter gray, because, I can't find it in a good engine paint. It has a tinge of green that just ain't available over the counter. So on this No. 346 I'm doing, I thought I'd try a light gray, sans the green tint. And truth be known, I'm just not crazy about the gray. And, I'm not sure it matters, because I'm not restoring for a collector, I'm restoring for users. But I do feel some loyalty to authenticity, and think I should at least try to stay close to Stanley's grand design.

So, what do you guys and gals think? Do you like the gray? The blue, by the way, is very close to correct. This 346 was gray and blue originally, as pictured.


----------



## DLK

It looks very nice.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Poa, on the two 358's we restored one had blue and the other black as original colours. We repainted them to original with Rustoleum spray bombs.


----------



## Poa

Thanks you guys. Yeah, the black ones are really inexplicable. I've seen black on No. 2 frames, and No. 3 frames. And I too use spray can aerosols. But I really prefer the automotive engine paints. They are extremely fast drying, and they are formulated to be grease and oil tolerant. I have found them to give great adhesion, coverage, and hardness.


----------



## DLK

Which brand automotive engine spray paint do you prefer? Do you use the primer first?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

You ever bake those engine enamels?


----------



## papadan

Hey guys, I'm no hand tool junky by any means. I need an idea of value on a couple pieces at a local auction. An EC Sterns miter box, looks rough.



























Next is a 22.5" Distton saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

To me, that Stearns only has value to a Stearns collector that needs one of everything, as it's not a desirable model / design of box. The saw is interesting though. Atypical size, looks to be in very good + condition. Maybe (?) $35 or so?


----------



## Poa

Trying to answer some questions now, from above…

Don K….. I like the "Dupli-Color" engine enamel. I buy it at O'reillys.

Glen…No, I haven't tried baking the finishes. Seems like overkill to me.

Smitty….found this with a google search. Box looks pretty much like mine, except no hinges or hasp. Which makes sense, because I'm certain the hardware isn't original to my box. I'm convinced its a packing crate, and not carrying case.










And heres some pics of mine….










Hmmm….only letting me post the one pic. I've been having trouble with the site since yesterday afternoon. I will try to post more pics in a little while.


----------



## Poa

Gads…what a fight! Is it just me, or is the site experiencing serious problems?


----------



## papadan

Thank you Smitty. I'll pass on the box and maybe buy the saw.


----------



## bandit571

New saw has been cleaned up..









Seems to fit my smaller Stanley Mitre Box…









Stanley #2246









Might be a Disston made WS 4" x24" . $7 saw.









Had to raised the stops a bit, otherwise, I'd be sawing into the deck.


----------



## Poa

Well….the SW mitre box that came with the shipping crate is pretty much done. Need to stain a table for it, and clean up the saw handle. The saw plate was a bit of a disappointment, as it has more light pitting than I anticipated. But it is, I assume, the original SW 5" x 28", straight, with a pretty clear etch, so I wanna keep it with this mitre box. Like I said, above, this box has a few anomalies that I haven't ran into before. The guide post caps are odd, as one of them has a little set screw that holds the bridge bar screw from coming out. Why they would put it on only one of the caps is fairly inexplicable. And the cut stop rod coupler has bosses for the two screws, thd first one I've seen like that. Usually there are no bosses, just threaded holes in the coupler. Third, the back fence was painted bright silver, and the rest of the box was blue. Never seen a back fence painted like that before. And it was original, because there was no blue under the silver. Sorry, but I'm just not a bright silver kinda guy, so I opted for a muted battleship gray. And the table on this one was a gawd awful orange paint, instead of stain. Hadn't seen that before, either. No matter, the new table will be stained. I'm as fond of bright orange paint as I am of bright silver. So, anyway, running into a box like this one, a guy wonders if its even.possible to type these things. I've had other SWs, and none of them had the details I describe above.


----------



## theoldfart

And now a precursor to the Langdon 41. A Seavey's Patent(1899) mitre box


















It doesn't do bevels like the 41 but does work quite well on angled cuts.


----------



## papadan

That Stearns box sold for $6 and the Disston saw went for $12.50. I let it go, not worth me fooling with.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You missed a fine saw, but I understand the whole time constraint!

Kevin, that is wicked! No wonder you bought it.


----------



## DLK

Kevin thats a cool "miter gizmo".


----------



## papadan

I got to talk to the auctioneer and found out they left some info out of the description. The handle had been glued back together and had a few chips missing from it. Would have to be replaced.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ouch. All the better you passed then.


----------



## CFrye

Funky cool, Kevin!


----------



## Poa

Decided to actually adhere to a Stanley color scheme. I gotta asume that this box is wartime. The guide castings, guide post mounting blocks, and steel saw hieght stops were painted. I know it was original this way because there was no plating on the guide castings under the paint. I really didn't think I'd like this box painted as original, but now that its done, I kinda dig it. It is certainly different, thats for sure. However, if I was considering it as a personal user, I would probably prefer a box with plating on the guide castings, brass stops, and unpainted mounting blocks. Seems to me this painted version would show usage scars much sooner than its unpainted versions. I'm gonna sell this one. It will be interesting to see what kind of traffic it gets, and if it takes longer to move than the more common versions. Its incomplete, as well. I am missing the cut stop coupler and one of the cut stop rods. If anyone has these parts, and wants to part with them, please PM me. It's a shame for this nice a box to be incomplete.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's a beauty!


----------



## bandit571

Seems to scream…U.S. N. on it?

Yes I have the rod and coupler for my 358…..that I'll ever use..

As for them 4" x 24" saws…..I now have two, seemed to be almost tripping over them when I go out rust hunting lately…..


----------



## Poa

Well, bandit, do you want to part with the coupler and rod? If so, throw a pm my way. I am always in the market for cut stop components. Stock rests, etc.

Interesting that you run into the 4×24s. I have 2 No. 244 boxes I'm restoring, which, of course, were designed for use with a 4×24 saw. I have yet to find a No. 240 box, and am dying to get my hands on one to chronicle the dimensions. Hard to imagine one of these Stanley boxes being small enough for a 20" saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Another new arrival, EC Stearns version of the Seavey patent mitre box.









The main casting is the same but the indexing is different









Notches for 45, 30, and 22 1/2









I don't think the dealer understood the design, the description said mitre box parts!

Edit. I had my information wrong on my first Seavey post. The patent was held by Seavey and the manufacturer was Smith and Hemenway.


----------



## Johnny7

Wow Kevin-great stuff-you have definitely crossed some kind of line, and I, for one, appreciate it!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks J7 though much of this affliction is your fault as well as Doc and Smitty! I'm on the hunt for yet another one! Wish me luck.


----------



## Tim457

I passed up an old Stanley Mitre box today. Saw was in really nice shape, I think a pre-1917 disston with Stanley etch. I didn't recognize the box, it had 3 patent dates, no number, and was missing the stabilizing bar and the catch mechanism. Don't really have the space for it, but maybe I should have paid the $35.


----------



## donwilwol

A Marsh. I need one of the guides.


----------



## Mosquito

If they're the same as the ones for the boxes, and you come across a parts one with good feet/legs let me know ;-)


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> A Marsh. I need one of the guides.
> 
> - Don W


You got that at the Fairground didn't you Don? I saw that beast sitting there and almost pulled the trigger, but I already have 4 saws waiting and I just couldn't. Was fairly slim pickings on the hand plane end this year, and the ones I did see they all wanted insane prices for them.

How much did you snatch it up for?


----------



## RWE

Don W.: I have an extra guide. I am restoring an 1889 Patent Marsh. It was given to me. It only had one guide. I managed to buy some guides on Ebay for what the seller said were from an 1889 Marsh. Those guides had a finer thinner slit for the saw. The guide that was included with the gifted Marsh would accept a thicker saw plate. The Ebay guides would not accept a conventional backsaw saw plate. Long story short, a member here told me about an ad on Ebay for a Marsh mitre saw. It was an Atkins/Marsh saw and had the thinner plate thickness. My research since all this came to pass tells me that tenon saws are often thinner than backsaws. They range in thickness in the .033 to .038 range, as does the Atkins/Marsh. A conventional backsaw ranges in the .042 to .048 thickness. I guess some of the saws had some taper. I just measured several in my shop and got a range of readings on the same plate.

So if you current guide allows a thicker plate, i may can help you. If you current guide and the saw that is in your picture is thinner like the Atkins/Marsh, then you will want a matching thinner guide. I just scoured the shop and the spare guide is hiding. I will find it after business hours.


----------



## BrentParkin

I needed another mitre box like I needed a hole in my head… But yet another one followed me home this past weekend. I was wandering through a community garage sale day (About 120 garage sales in a small town just outside the city I live in) when I spotted a big mitre saw in a pile of stuff. I kind of ignored the mitre box because like I said, I don't need another. But the saw despite the dust and some staining was one I had never seen before. It was a Goodell Pratt saw. Well Goodell drills sure I have seen those, but not a saw.

The saw handle looked like a write off, I counted 12 finish nails driven here and there or through some terrible band aids on the sides. So having seen it and appreciating it, I walked away. As I was perusing some other stuff, I heard the home owner talking to a friend that showed up and told him anything that didn't sell was going to the dump. I just couldn't let it goto the dump. So $12 later the saw and box headed to the car with me.

I have lots of experience with Stanley boxes, but this Goodell box is a mystery to me. I compared it to some of the "Langdon" boxes that I could scrounge photos up of, but nothing I saw was exactly like this box. I realized it was not supposed to have a wooden deck on it so I removed that pretty quick and well, the pictures will show what I found. I enjoy cleaning these sorts of things up and will have a challenge with the saw handle… replacement is probably the best idea with all the broken areas and nails in it. The saw is 24" long. There doesn't seem to be any mounting spots on the end of the box for a stop mechanism of any sort. Does anyone know if perhaps this model never had the "T" style or "V" style mounts to hold a stop??? The box moves nicely and other than the orange surface rust on the deck it seems fine. The guides move nicely and the saw slides smoothly within them.

Does anyone have have a URL with more information I can read about for this mitre box? I just have no feel for a Goodell branded item like this.






















































Thanks for any information you guys can provide.

Brent Parkin
Regina, SK
Canada


----------



## FrankonThetis

Brent

In case you have yet to visit this site it is quite informative. https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/contact
I emailed [email protected] about an old Goodell steel mitre box of mine for an approximate vintage. He responded and gave me information into its age. Would be worth contacting him. This is a picture of mine, solid deck.










Frank


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've posted above on the G-P box that calls my shop Home. It's a very good tool. Kevin also has one (or two? or three?) of them.


----------



## theoldfart

Just two Smitty, just two! Of the GP All Steel that is.


----------



## planepassion

I too have the Goodell Manufacturing Co, version of said box. Blogged about restoring it, finding parts and getting a saw here.

It works quite well.


----------



## theoldfart

Brad! It's been a while, wuzzup?


----------



## BrentParkin

Well it appears that the Goodell Manufacturing mitre box I posted about is the same basic unit as a Langdon 1124 box. It never had stop rods on it and I seem to have all the bits and pieces so I will move on to cleaning it up now.










The saw handle is indeed toast. I removed two layers of duct tape, 4 wrappings in black electrical tape and some dried out masking tape and discovered that the actual nail count was 17 finish nails pounded into the handle. I dropped the handle over a TGIAG handle template for a 3 hole Disston and it was a perfect match!! Does anyone know if Stanley made mitre saws with Goodell's name on them???

Also, does anyone know what the original colour of a Goodell box was? The later boxes seem to be grey with occasional red feet on them. This one looks like it was always black which actually suites my taste better LOL. But if they were all grey, I will use grey.

Thanks for the earlier comments they were quite helpful.

Brent Parkin
Regina, SK
Canada


----------



## theoldfart

I don't think Stanley made mitre saws, they used Disston, Simonds, Jackson, and a few others.

Early Goodells are black with red trim.


----------



## bandit571

Might be a Disston made handle?









Over on another site ( Woodnet) there is a fellow asking about a Stanley #100 box. Seems it has a few orange painted parts….One of which was the clamp extension pieces….


----------



## BrentParkin

Well I said Disston in one spot and then for some reason, changed to Stanley. Yup I know Stanley didn't make them. This getting old is turning me into a dottering old fool. LOL.



> I don t think Stanley made mitre saws, they used Disston, Simonds, Jackson, and a few others.
> 
> Early Goodells are black with red trim.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## BrentParkin

That saw in the middle is the same as one I found that has vexed me. See the shape of the handle? It's a dead ringer for a Tyzak handle. In the picture you can see the plastic medallion/disk is missing from one of the bolts (Just like Tyzak used).

I got a complete Stanley 358 mitre box and saw that had a saw just like this. On mine, the plastic disk was blank and then exploded in a million pieces when I loosened the bolt. There was no marking on the saw anywhere else to identify it. Andy (Brit) reshaped a Tyzak handle on another saw that looked just like it as well.

Has anyone ever seen a Tyzak mitre box saw?

I posted the handle from mine at the top.

Regards,

Brent



> Might be a Disston made handle?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over on another site ( Woodnet) there is a fellow asking about a Stanley #100 box. Seems it has a few orange painted parts….
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## bandit571

My older one..








And the newer one…









Both were marked as Disston and Sons.


----------



## duckmilk

> Just two Smitty, just two! Of the GP All Steel that is.
> 
> - theoldfart


You should post a pic of the line-up Kev


----------



## theoldfart

Duck, I don't think there's enough room here.


----------



## Poa

Interesting no one mentioned Atkins as being one of Stanley's mitre saw suppliers. Atkins was the second most prolific supplier, behind Disston.

Btw way…I'm selling the gray 346. If anyone is interested, holler.


----------



## planepassion

Brent Parkin, here's the color scheme I came up with for my Goodel Manufacturing Co, miterbox restoration.


----------



## BrentParkin

That looks pretty good Brad!!

I will get started on my cleanup and re-paint as soon as I get back from Amana next week. Hopefully no more mitre boxes follow me home after. LOL.

Brent


> Brent Parkin, here s the color scheme I came up with for my Goodel Manufacturing Co, miterbox restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Brad


----------



## FoundSheep

Hi everyone. I don't have a mitre box, but I'd like to get one soon.
Does anyone know about the Millers Falls model 200? I've seen a couple on eBay for dirt cheap. Bit if they aren't good I wouldn't want to get one.









Thanks!


----------



## Poa

Will…I've restored a couple of the boxes like you are considering, and I'm not impressed. I suggest, if you want a small box, the Stanley 150. Far more bang for your buck.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a half dozen different bigger mitre boxes but I also have a Stanley Handyman H114. I actually really like it. I can get a pretty decent cut really quickly with the H114. It's small, lite and easy to store when not being used. If you aren't too worried about the perfect cut, small mitre boxes will do nicely. I have a clone of the stanley 150. It is nice too.


----------



## bandit571

Bought one saw at the yard sales today, out of 6 sales we stopped at..









I might find some use for the stand, after it gets cleaned up..
Saw itself is a Made for Millers Falls 5×30", by Disston & Sons. 









And has the M-F label..









There is also this label..









Size: 2 1/2….Number 75. langdon Acme mitre box









Stock holders are MIA? 
Price tag said $15, offered $10, paid $12….the stand need a bit of repair, though….
Not too bad of a morning?









Lot of driving around today….


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Nice Bandit, that's a sweet looking MF 74 box, I have the exact same one I just picked up a few weeks ago.


----------



## bandit571

Better yet…this one is the No. 75. I might try to bring the Millers Falls etch out a bit better on the saw plate….spine is stamped as a cast steel Henry Disston & Sons warranted. I can see traces of the Millers Falls diamond logo on the plate. Saw is quite sharp…nice and straight. Medallion merely has Disston Philada around the keystone.

5" x 30"......weighs a ton, too.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to find out how old this saw and box are. They have been barely used.

Saw seems to be from between the wars…1907-1940 era….not sure about the #75 box…..

Label on the box says it is a Millers Falls Langdon ACME Mitre Box Size 2-1/2 Number #75….


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, somewhere around 1910 to about mid 1930's or so. Look here

Millers Falls moved from Millers Falls to Greenfield in 1931 or so when they fully acquired Goodell Pratt. After that the badges have Greenfield, Mass on them.


----------



## TheFridge

I just realized. Kev is to miter boxes as Mos is to 45s.

Ok. Maybe not that bad


----------



## Mosquito

More or less lol


----------



## TheFridge

Oh…. hey mos… how's it going buddy… was just talking about you… all good things ….


----------



## Mosquito

No one speaks ill of me Fridge…

Or was it well, no one speaks well of me… Hmmm that may be the one lol


----------



## bandit571

So, it seems the saw is from after 1928…..the box is from before the greenfield move in 1931…kind of narrows the age down a bit…...just under 90 years young…

Feet will need to be taken off the box, derusted to bare metal , and repainted. Already have plans to take the metal decking off, and do the same..in red.

trying to figure out what is missing on the box. Only one of the saw keepers is still there….not sure about what the slots in the deck were for. Length Stop?


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, they are called coping stops. This one is on an All Steel









They can either hold coping at 45 degrees for cutting









or give you and angle steeper than the box can do by way of its angle guide


----------



## bandit571

I have a slot IN the bed, on each side of the saw. Nothing inside them, not even threads. Have nothing out on the ends.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bandit, you've seen similar slots in the bed of Stanley boxes; do you have reason to believe the ones in your 75 are not the same purpose as slotted bed Stanley models, and your box is just missing the rods/bars?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

They are slots for stock rests.

The stock rest on a MF/Langdon Acme box is essentially a carriage bolt threaded up through those slots with a knurled barrel-looking tall nut screwed onto it. They kept the design from the inception of the Acme in 1890-something until just after WWII.

I've got two. Yours Kev is missing the stock rests and the length stop. I'll try to get a pic after I get home from work.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Rests and stop; the wrong box for the stop. This box is a 73A that is supposed to have the scarce 3-pc stop setup (WWII era, never appeared in a catalog save for an obscure parts drawing). I have a 74 this stop goes to.










Here is the stock rest all taken apart. The boxes came with two of them.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, good stuff Glen. Learned something new today about MF boxes, stops and rests.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

I really wish I could find the 3-pc stops for that 73A. I am sure I saw one a year or two ago and didn't buy it because I didn't recognize it. I kick myself for it! Not the first time…


----------



## bandit571

Red plates..









I just coated all surfaces…..after a darn good clean up. Wire wheel for the top, sander for the under side

Rest might take a while..









The scale has been cleaned up. Waiting on the paint to dry on the feet..









Needed a hammerdrill to loosen a few of these bolts..









Hope I don't need it to reinstall them. Those plate bolts are TINY things, just a hair bigger than the scale's are.









I don't think any of my Stanley stock holders would work here…Looks like I will need to do some drill and tap work….how big of a carriage bolt will I need….


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Aww crap I *knew* I should have measured them.

I won't be able to get back to one until tomorrow. I'll bust out the micrometer to get real life measurements off them. They aren't big, but what will you use for the nut?

It's probably high time I got out the paint can, too…


----------



## bandit571

Will make one out of a rod. Drill and tap the rod. After all, I made the ones for the Stanley #358 Mitre Box.

Seems I have another "stop" upside down..









Have since flipped them around. They only had a single bolt, but there are two holes to use.

Waiting onthe feet to dry, right now. Might go and clean a few bolts.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Yeah, those are for keeping the saw from bottoming out in the gib, for those who didn't know. Set 'em & forget 'em!


----------



## theoldfart

"Set 'em & forget 'em!" At least until you sharpen!


----------



## bandit571

Waiting on the second coat of black to dry on the frame. Legs are dry, at least. RED plates are ready to go. Bolts are cleaned up. Saw has been ready for a few days…...

The Langdon makes my #358 look small…..Saw's longer, more to the box, seems bigger…just not as tall.


----------



## bandit571

Well, I think I can about call this one rehabbed?









The Mitre Box..









When it is unlocked, a finger is all that is needed to swing it to the next angle…









Scale cleaned up….there are some saw marks, where they were cutting a bit too deep..









Can't have a Mitre Box without a saw…









Saw needs a bit of wax…and a better operator…binds a bit. There are two screws holding the box to the stand..









I made two cuts at 45 degrees….seems to work nicely enough.

This MIGHT just be worth the $12 I paid for it? Doesn't look a day over 90 years old, does it?


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Nice job!
The carriage bolts are 3/8-16, 1 3/4" long. The major of the thread measures .368", and the square part of the bolt measures .380".

The nuts are 1 5/8" long, knurled on only part of them, and slotted so you can reef on them with a screwdriver.


----------



## bandit571

Thank you. I'll look around for those bolts…..might have an idea I can try…too…


----------



## bandit571

Have the bolts, now. Had to settle for the 2" long ones. They were out of the other parts I was after at Lowes….will try a couple other places I know. $0.22 each for the bolts.


----------



## DLK

Don't you love MF and the MF-langdon box. All the bolt threads are standard thread sizes. Easy to get.


----------



## WayneC

This miter box came home with me on Sunday. For $6 it could not be passed by.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Six bucks? Holy cow!

Now I don't even want to hear what treasures were in the leather tool roll, as that was probably six bits or so and has a full set of #720s inside.


----------



## WayneC

Just a set of #60s in the roll.


----------



## WayneC




----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, so now the other part of the equation: What ridiculously low price did you pay for those beauties?


----------



## WayneC

Oh and I'm up to 4 boxes and 7-8 saws. Pretty soon people are going to start confusing me with Kevin. LOL


----------



## theoldfart

And so now my elevated status in the world of mitre boxes is under attack? I'm a feared! hehe

still wondering what size box by the way.


----------



## WayneC

The saw is 27×5. The box does not have a tag. I does have a patent date on the saw guides.


----------



## bandit571

Langdon is now in it's new home…









WayneC: Looks like a No. 358 from Stanley?


----------



## JoeRPhilly

I just snagged a goodell mfg co miter box, seems to be complete from what I can tell, but no saw


















Anyone have an extra miter saw they want to sell? I think I need a 30×6, or at least 5" below the spine


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

With label, incredible. Congrats! I'm sure there's a saw out there, and Bandit usually carries a few extras.


----------



## theoldfart

JoeR, nice AllSteel. They are my favorite mitre box.


----------



## JoeRPhilly

Thanks guys, I'm excited about it. Looking forward to cleaning it up and being able to use it


----------



## Poa

JoePhilly…did you find a saw, I've got a millers falls etched disston I'd part with. It a 5". 26" at the toothline. The plate actually measures 4 3/4 under the spine. Good handle, straight. Message me if its something you're interested in.

Almost forgot…also have a Stanley etched Atkins, 5×28, that I was just getting ready to clean up. Straight, nice tight handle.

And a Stanley SW etched 5×28 whose handle has been repaired, and painted white. It has a slight bow, so needs a spine adjustment.

Any one of these three would be good users, cleaned up.


----------



## bandit571

In use….









Might do, for now…


----------



## JoeRPhilly

Poa, I haven't found a saw yet - PM coming, thanks!


----------



## Ajs73

Hi all, I look in on this thread daily & love 
looking at the cool stuff you jocks post. 
Here's my little collection. Can't seem to
find much info about the box on the table. 
I found one similar (post 475 above) but 
that doesn't say much. Union I guess.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Andy, dropping some serious All Steel goodness on the thread! A Perfection, a Stanley (or rebranded Stanley) is there too. But yeah, what's on the table? Can you post a couple close ups of it, as I don't remember Post 475.


----------



## theoldfart

The one on the table looks like it has an articulated arm to hold the saw. I've seen a couple of them on the 'Bay over the years but priced overly high.


----------



## JethroBodean

Andy - From the picture I cannot tell for sure, but the one on the table looks a lot like a Union #2 that I first saw a few years ago over at the Blackburn Tools site.


----------



## Ajs73

What sucks is it's missing 1 foot. How's that
happen ?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like the whole foot casting from the left side is gone.


----------



## theoldfart

Missing/broken feet is a common problem with the older cast boxes. One of my Langdon 1874's has a repaired foot. A lot of the boxes on the 'Bay have repairs so look carefully. Broken foot won't affect function, broken frames or posts if not carefully repaired will make it impossible to fuly adjust the cut to 90*


----------



## theoldfart

Found another CL gem, a #16 Langdon circa 1876-1904. It is big and heavy. The saw is in good shape. the only thing missing is the curved guides. I think Don Brousard has one as well.



























Compared to my smallest Langdon








I have some cleaning and oiling to do but thats about it.


----------



## Mosquito

Wow Kev, that is a beast lol Nice score


----------



## DonBroussard

Kevin-I still have mine, but the box has a broken foot. Yours looks pretty nice.


----------



## donwilwol

Ok, that size comparison shot doesn't look real!!!!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, trust me. I carried that big one in.

Edit: I did a little more research and the box is a Langdon Improved #15 since the saw is 28"x6". Thought for sure it was a 30" saw. We're talking roughly 1880 ish to 1904. Still digging!


----------



## TheFridge

What is that for Kev? Mitering the tree trunks?


----------



## theoldfart

Could be, 12 1/2" wide at 90 degrees. That's almost one inch wider than my Goodell All Steel!


----------



## JethroBodean

> Don, trust me. I carried that big one in.
> 
> Edit: I did a little more research and the box is a Langdon Improved #15 since the saw is 28"x6". Thought for sure it was a 30" saw. We re talking roughly 1880 ish to 1904. Still digging!
> 
> - theoldfart


Are you seeing 28×6 on the etch? How long is the tooth line, with the clipped heal the saw will be measured as roughly 2" longer than the tooth line.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, you are correct. I just found a reference to saw length in an early MF catalogue. Mine is a 30" saw so the box is a #16! Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Tim457

That is a sweet beast. I don't have space for another mitre box but that might have followed me home too.


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, who said I have space?  My wife is " suggesting" I should sell a couple boxes to free up space, I must admit she has a point.


----------



## bandit571

Picked two items up today..









A pair of 3/8"x16 connectors….will have to do as stock holders… Need to make the slotted bolt for the top….


----------



## theoldfart

Started to do some clean up on the Langdon Beast. The previous owner(not sure how long ago) used a 3/4" sacrificial board and in doing so had to do some strange adjustments to have the saw car the board. Got everything back to normal and I'm milling a new sacrificial board at 3/8". I need to chase down a pair of age appropriate sick guides.



















I was even able to resurrect an etch, Langdon Mitre Box.


----------



## CFrye

Kevin, do the guides have to be sick? Couldn't they be just slightly injured?
Good looking box.


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, I missed that! It should read stock guides. Age related cognitive issues I guess. 

BTW, speaking of injuries how's yours?


----------



## CFrye

It's healing, Kevin. It will be a while before I get full range of motion back in my elbow. I am blessed to be able to work.


----------



## Tim457

Didn't know you were injured. Get well soon, Candy.


----------



## DLK

Sorry you were injured. Get well and be safe, Candy.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks, guys!


----------



## bandit571

Finally got all the parts for these things









I suppose I could round it off…









Maybe change this into a domed and slotted bolt? Or, just leave it alone..flat sides to hold the stock?


----------



## waho6o9

Get well Candy and I hope you heal quickly.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, the flat sides might impede getting a precise setting. Maybe if the upright part could rotate freely on the bolt?


----------



## bandit571

IF this broken right thumb heals up enough…I'll round the flats off into a cylinder, may even round the top bolt into a small dome, and add a slot. Right now, I'm kind of laid up….


----------



## theoldfart

That sucks. I broke my thumb this past February, not much fun.


----------



## theoldfart

OK done. I couldn't find a couple of screws that hold the legs on so I wound up using some brass screws and nuts. This approach need some counter bores on the underside of the deck.









Also had to tinker with the lift mechanism because of the oversize deck used previously. This pic shows the adjustment screw. It was in all the way and the post was clamped leaving an 1/8" gap!









The final product ready to go.


----------



## FoundSheep

Kevin, that last picture is awesome. Very nice saw.


----------



## Tim457

Very nice Kevin. Showoff with the post drill too even.


----------



## theoldfart

oh yea, love it!


----------



## donald_wa

TOF, is that a post drill or a camelback?

Bandit, I am just starting a refurb on a MF box like your and was wondering if red is the regular color for the tables?


----------



## bandit571

Yep…Millers Falls seemed to have a thing for the colour red.
Red was the colour on the plates when I cleaned off the grime. I merely tried to match what they had.


----------



## theoldfart

Canedy Otto No. 0 post drill


----------



## GlenintheNorth

That's the very drill I want. It has my last name on it.


----------



## Mosquito

Looking up the No. 00, it's interesting because it's the exact same everything as my post drill, but mine doesn't have any manufacturer castings on it…


----------



## theoldfart

just one 0 not 00. I have almost a full compliment of 1/2 shank drills for it, even a few forstners.


----------



## donwilwol

Back to 100%


----------



## theoldfart

Beautiful Don.

Correcting my previous post, my post drill is a model 00 , not 0.


----------



## DLK

Dose someone have an extra Low clamp (part number MM11) for the St 100 (picture frame ) Miter Box? I only have one.

BTW the instruction sheet for Miter Box #100 and #400 is here.


----------



## DLK

Better instruction sheet for the Stanley-Marsh-100 is here.

In particular here is page 3.










You can see on the right side a wood rule is attached and there is a "rule gauge". 
Rule goes under a ledge and over two nub pins.


 *Is the wooden rule special?*

Also you can see it came with two "Low clamps".

I would like to acquire


the rule gauge
the wooden rule
a second low (red) clamp

I can of course easily make these (or an equivalent), but it would be nice to have "originals". Problem is of course where do you look for parts that can be easily mistaken to not belong with the the Mitre box. *Any ideas where they can be found?*

Here is the one I purchased yesterday. It came as you see it complete with miter saw and minor surface rust.

There was more rust on the right side then the left. This is also true of the saw non-etch side, which was in the miter box. It must be how it was stored.

I just cleaned up this morning while the boss was sleeping with a little DW-40, brass brush, 600 grit sand paper, and the remains of my elbow grease. I will do a little more on it when I have time and better supplies.
(Its in the new to be shop and not in my old shop.) I gave it a test run and she works.










Back to unpacking boxes.


----------



## Tim457

That's the tough part. I'm sure there are some lying in the bottom of someone's drawer somewhere but few know what it is. That's why I don't begrudge tool dealers their markup. They have a lot of knowledge about the tools. Maybe someone will have some clues though.


----------



## DLK

Yes thats the tough part. Some tool dealers know more then others. The one I bought this 100 from didn't know why you would ever need the low angle clamp. But I can fault him. He has a garage packed solid with tools and has just opened up an Antique mall about 40 minutes south of my new to be shop. Should be able to get some good deals, but he has to make a profit so not ridiculous deals.


----------



## DLK

Oops! A small correction:


> But I *can't* fault him.


----------



## Johnny7

A 1960s-era No 100, given to me by a friend (who also restored it). Four hours in a citric acid bath took off all the rust, left the paint, and freed a frozen handwheel assembly. Somewhere, I have the rulers, but *not* the elusive gauge.

*BEFORE*










*AFTER*


----------



## DLK

Looks nice. I see you have 2 low clamps too. Show me/us the ruler when you have a chance.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Johnny - does that No. 100 have saw arms that are tensioned / stay up? Mine does not, and it's not obvious how it may have ever included that feature. And, +1 on the ruler pic request.


----------



## Johnny7

Hi Smitty,

I'm hoping these photos answer your question, if not, feel free to re-phrase.




























As to the ruler -there's a reason I wrote "*Somewhere*, I have the rulers …" I thought they were with all my boxwood folders, but I guess not. I think they were maple-now I'm not even sure if there was one or two.

Here are some images found online:


----------



## DLK

Ah that explanes a lot about the ruler. Where did you find these online?. I looked every where I thought.


----------



## donwilwol

Don, I have one of those bases but it's broke. You could rig it if you didn't need the swevel maybe.


----------



## DLK

What? My base is fine. I'm missing one of the low clamps. This red guy.










(I've seen them in red, yellow and black in internet pictures.)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's the stated purpose of the low clamp(s). Sorry if it's been stated. Here's my 100.


----------



## Johnny7

*Don K.*-the ruler images came from eBay

*Smitty*- from the instruction pamphlet:
"The low or auxilliary clamp is slipped over the regular clamp for use with certain types of moldings that are not readily gripped by the latter."

I take this to mean a rabbeted molding whose overall thickness is less than the thickness of the regular clamp.


----------



## DLK

*Smitty* (and *Johnny*) Also written in the instruction pamphlet just below the explanation of the low clamp:

"Special clamps may be made for any odd shape or form and sketches and estimates of cost will be gladly furnished upon request."

I find this interesting. I suspect it would not be difficult to make special auxiliary clamps out of brass, aluminum or even hard wood. It would be particularly easy for some one with a CNC router. This opens up the possibility of some unusual applications I think. (Makes my head spin with ideas.)


----------



## DLK

> Johnny - does that No. 100 have saw arms that are tensioned / stay up? Mine does not, and it s not obvious how it may have ever included that feature. And, +1 on the ruler pic request.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Also from the instruction pamphlet:

"The saw is held above the work by detent springs, enabling the work to be adjusted without taking saw from machine."

Mine has these detent springs. Little (about 1/8" in diameter) buttons are forced to the sides that will hold the saw up 4 inches (I think) above the work while you adjust the molding. (I will take photos when I return to Holland, mi on the 8-th.) What *Johnny* shows are the pair of so called saw gauge that keep the saw from bottoming out and cutting into the metal frame.

It looks to me that small variations were made and I think a "study" of the 100 miter saw could be made.

I would like to have a measured drawing and detailed photos of the illusive rule gauge if anyone has or can find one. Part number 7.


----------



## DLK

I will bid on these "low or auxihiary clamps" and sell them at noprofit to you guys, unless one of you is bidding on them. Let me know ASAP.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I got nothing holding the saw guides up on my No. 100; aside from ruler and low clamps and rule gauge, though, it's complete and functional.


----------



## RWE

Don, if you win the bid on the low auxiliary clamps, I would like a pair for the 1889 patent Marsh. ( I am the fellow that swapped you the saw guide for your Marsh for the saw jointer.)


----------



## Johnny7

Don K

I'm very interested in having a look at those springs. I've owned probably six or seven of these machines over the years and none have had springs.
They don't even seem to be present in your exploded parts diagram.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Don K
> 
> I'm very interested in having a look at those springs.. They don't even seem to be present in your exploded parts diagram.
> 
> - Johnny7


Word.


----------



## RWE

I wanted to jump in on the Stanley 100/Marsh discussion. I had a friend give me an 1889 Patent Marsh. I will upload some pictures later. It only had one saw guide. I found two guides on Ebay from a seller that stated they were from a "scrap 1889" Marsh. The original guide that came in my gifted Marsh allowed a 3/64 saw plate. The Ebay guides were thininer. They only allowed a 1/32 plate. I was lucky enough to find a vintage Atkins made, Marsh labeled saw that had the thin plate (thanks to Jon for giving me notice of that saw on Ebay). All of this lead me to believe that the saw plate thickness and guide thickness were purchase options. I sent the 3/64 solo guide to Don, who had the same problem that I had, in that he needed one. His original was also 3/64. Have any of you Marsh/Stanley 100 folks seen the thinner guides that require a 1/32 saw plate??


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mine is certainly not that 'refined' re: tolerances of sawplate, sorry.


----------



## RWE

On the saw plate thickness I think I can generalize this conclusion. Most backsaws that have the hole in the toe are meant for mitre boxes. Most of those saws are 3/64 thick. Backsaws that don't have the hole are generally more likely to be a tenon saw or bench saw of some variety. Most of those bench backsaws seem to have the thinner plate at 1/32, particularly the smaller backsaws. My sample size is of course limited, but that is what I have found after searching about the Marsh. When you think about the picture frame saw's purpose, it makes sense to use the thinner plate and the authentic Marsh etched Atkins saw is evidence that they were made. I was just wondering how rare or common the thinner plate size was. Maybe the thinner plate was limited to a given time period. 3/64 certainly seems more common. A 3/64 saw will not fit in the guides that I have, but if you had the wider 3/64 guides, there would obviously be no problem using a 1/32 saw in the wider guides.. Anyone that has time to measure their saw plate for the Marsh/Stanley 100 boxes chime in.


----------



## RWE

Most of the Marsh boxes that I see on Ebay are 1909 patent (from memory, may be wrong on the year). The 1889 model shown has Rockford Ill on both clamps. The later 1909 model usually has Marsh on one clamp and Rockford Ill on the other. The guide depth stop design is different from the Stanley 100's. It is just a slotted rectangle and does not have serration to lock at a given depth.

The Atkins saw has a label on it showing that it came from Berendsen's Picture Framing Art Goods in Green Bay WI. This saw has the 1/32 inch thick plate and a Marsh etch. My impression of the saw is that it sat in the original store building until the seller put it on Ebay. I have never seen a saw plate as shiny on an old saw.


----------



## DLK

I am at the Tamarak art and craft center in Wedt Virginia. Taking a little break from driving.

When I return to Holland, Mi I will take some photos of the springs and measure the saw plate, but as I recall there is a screw on the guide that seemed to adjust the size of the saw slot. At least at the top end.

Concerning the hole for the back of the saw how much room is there supposed to be. Mine has a 1/4" gap above the saw back? Is this normal?


----------



## DLK

> Don, if you win the bid on the low auxiliary clamps, I would like a pair for the 1889 patent Marsh. ( I am the fellow that swapped you the saw guide for your Marsh for the saw jointer.)
> 
> - RWE


It looks like I may not win this bid. I think it getting a bit high. High enough that it may not be worth it. I'm also traveling and may not be with wifi to put in a last second bid. Do you want to take over?

Also I don't recall this swap you mention? What Marsh do I have? Perhaps you have confused me with Don W.

Not all Donald's are the same. LOL.


----------



## RWE

Don K. I guess I did make a mistake. I am getting too old. I assumed you were Don W. I am leaving to go out of town as well and I don't know if I can monitor the Ebay sale. I will add it to my watch list and see how the travel schedule works with the auction end date. If I get the parts, i will let everyone know. Don W. had picked up a Marsh that was one guide short and I sent him my spare. However, most Donald's that I have met are pretty much the same. LOL


----------



## BlasterStumps

Does anyone on the forum have an original stop length tree for the Wards big mitre box. I would appreciate seeing a picture or two of it so I will know a little better about what to look for when searching for one. Thanks in advance.
Mike


----------



## DLK

> Don K. I guess I did make a mistake. I am getting too old.
> 
> - RWE


As you know the alternative to getting too old is much worse.

I sent you a pm.


----------



## RWE

Don: Been on the run all day. I will split the cost of the purchase for half of the clamps, or buy two at whatever pro rata amount that would be, as you see fit. If you don't get more interest, I will go in halves so as to not leaving you holding the bag. I tried to PM but the message was rejected. I think my Marsh would need the bigger clamps with the curve in end. PM me again and I can try to reply. I am new to his forum. Been lurking a year or so, but never contribute, too dumb to have much to add.


----------



## DLK

> Don: Been on the run all day. I will split the cost of the purchase for half of the clamps, or buy two at whatever pro rata amount that would be, as you see fit. If you don t get more interest, I will go in halves so as to not leaving you holding the bag. I tried to PM but the message was rejected. I think my Marsh would need the bigger clamps with the curve in end. PM me again and I can try to reply. I am new to his forum. Been lurking a year or so, but never contribute, too dumb to have much to add.
> 
> - RWE


Got your PM and sent a reply. All is good. I'll make a stab at increasing the bid later in the auction run.


----------



## bandit571

Not enough room in the shop to cut 8' stock down to size with the Langdon 75…..had to get out the "spare" mitre box..









Stanley 2246…...Made a bit of use of these things, too









When I needed a third hand..









The metal stop that came with the box, was about an inch short for cutting the tenons….had to set the depth stops too..









Had a bunch of these to do…









Just another day….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

There's a bit of setup time to do those cuts with a mitrebox, and trial and error / text cuts, but it's pretty cool to fully exercise the tool's capabilities like that. And once it's set up, the work is completed quickly. Nice work, Bandit.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hey Bandit, On the 2246 mitre box, does a person need the depth stops just to do simple cross cuts, assuming the saw is correct for the box and the spline on the saw is set on the blade properly? My mitre box is missing one depth stop and screws for it and I may need the lever to release the post in the back as I think it is missing as well. It appears that the person that was using this mitre box just removed those two items and didn't use depth stops. : (
The box I just purchased is a Wards but it appears same as the 2246 and 2358 in a lot of ways. I haven't received it yet. 
Mike


----------



## Poa

Blaster….holler if you want to. I have the parts you're missing.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thank you very kindly. I probably won't get the box until first part of next week. I don't know for certain what all is not on it just yet other than I know the depth stop doesn't show in the pictures the seller posted. I will probably be back in touch. Thanks again.
Mike


> Blaster….holler if you want to. I have the parts you re missing.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## bandit571

Blaster: Not for simple crosscuts….they do prevent you from cutting into the wooden bed, though…


----------



## BlasterStumps

The Wards Master mitre box showed up today. It was more complete than it looked in the pictures from the seller. I was worried the spring clip for releasing the elevator in the back would be missing because I couldn't see it in the pictures. Glad it was on there. 
The saw is straight with a good handle but the mitre box is missing one depth stop and of course the length stop tree and extra rod. 
One shoulder thumb screw for the work holding bar clamp is gone as well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

PM sent.


> Blaster….holler if you want to. I have the parts you re missing.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## BlasterStumps

I was studying the rollers that are in the saw guides on the Wards Master mitre box I recently got. I would like to make sure they are clean and lubricated and then I want to have them easy to adjust for different thickness saw plates. Apparently the Warranted Superior saw that came with this Wards Master mitre box is a bit thinner saw plate than a Disston that I have and would like to be able to use too. So I'm thinking the setting for width between the rollers might be adjustable. I haven't tried to undo anything on it yet. Thought I would see if someone on the forum has worked on the rollers on their MB and could share their expertise on what to do or not do with them. I would appreciate your input. Thanks
Mike


----------



## Ballinger

Hello All

I'm new to this site, though have been a hobby woodworker for a while and am increasingly converting to using hand tools only. In the process of that I've very recently bought a 19th century mitre box with good provenance, by way of the family story.

I bought it from the great grandson of the original owner: a Danish Master Cabinet Maker called Edvard Hvass who brought his trade to Australia in 1886 where he worked, married, had children, brought his son into the business and ultimately died in 1927.

Unfortunately, the mitre box has no maker's marks whatsoever. I've been all over the internet trying to identify it to no avail and have even scrolled through EVERY photo on this very interesting thread but have still not seen a photo that looks like one.

Can anyone cast any light on the maker or anything else about this lovely tool that I will be restoring soon (after I finish renovating the bathroom where I took the photos of the saw)

The photos are of the mitre box with a Robert Sorby 18" saw that I've also recently acquired (I realise I need find a more appropriate length saw asap), then without the saw, then without the sacrificial board.

Sorry the middle image has rotated 90 degrees…I can't seem to fix that (??)




























Thank you for any help you can give with my question and I look forward to posting more on this forum now that I've joined.


----------



## Poa

Blaster….

On the 2344, 2346, 2348, 2358 Stanleys, there is no adjustment for saw plate thickness.

Ballinger…

I've ever seen anything like it. Hopefully someone here has, I'm curious about it too.


----------



## Poa

Heres a recent acquisition…a Goodell Pratt "All Steel" No. 1004 that I've restored. It is the largest of the All Steel boxes. First near complete Pratt I've ran across. It is only missing one of the washers that goes between the height stop and the guide post. I got lucky too, almost immediately found a 6" x 30" GP etched Disston to go with it. I am currently working on the saw. Apparently, the dark stains in the handle are there for good.


----------



## theoldfart

Ballinger, that box is new to me. The frame is similar to US made ones from the late 19'th century but the posts don't resemble anything I've seen. Maybe Johnny7 will weigh in with his thoughts.


----------



## Johnny7

Kevin

My thoughts exactly-the frame is consistent with late 19th-early 20th century Stanley boxes, but the uprights are unusual. I suspect we need help from an LJ based on the Continent.


----------



## Poa

That frame doesn't look like any Stanley I've seen, early or otherwise. It is too "slender".


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## Johnny7

*Poa*

Perhaps you've misunderstood my post.
In no way, shape or form did I say it was a Stanley product.


----------



## Poa

No, Johnny, I didn't think you had implied it was a Stanley product. My point was that, to me, it doesn't even resemble the early Stanly frames. It has a far lighter structure, to the frame rails and the quadrant.


----------



## bandit571

Might check with that Dutch plane maker company? Could be the fellow brought it along from the "old Country"


----------



## DLK

> Might check with that Dutch plane maker company? Could be the fellow brought it along from the "old Country"
> 
> - bandit571


I may have missed something but rereading the OP I think the old country would be Denmark and not The Netherlands.


----------



## bandit571

Flemish, maybe?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for the info on the MB rollers in the saw guides. I guess I am just going to see if I can lube them. Thanks. Mike


> Blaster….
> 
> On the 2344, 2346, 2348, 2358 Stanleys, there is no adjustment for saw plate thickness.
> 
> Ballinger…
> 
> I ve ever seen anything like it. Hopefully someone here has, I m curious about it too.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## theoldfart

Just for arguments sake, here is a pic of a circa 1877 Traut box frame. In time it evolved into the #50 Stanley.









There is some resemblance to Balliwngers frame above.


----------



## Johnny7

Thanks for that *Kevin*

OP's unknown specimen is clearly closer in lineage to the Stanley than to any of the other well-known miter boxes of the day, even if only for the inclusion of the quadrant cast into the front edge of the frame.

And just for the heck of it, here's an actual Stanley 50 (type 1)


----------



## theoldfart

That looks awfully close to my two. Is the plunger cast iron?


----------



## Johnny7

the plunger?


----------



## theoldfart

Spring lever pin used to lock in to the various angles.

I guess I'm confused about the differentiation between the first Trauts and the #50 type 1. I know the first runs(1875) had bronze feet and brass spring lever pin. The next iteration(1877/8) had cast iron feet but still had the brass spring lever pin and within the year Stanley gave the no saw version the number 50 and sawed version the number 60. In writing this I realized my two are both type 1 50"s. I'm easily confused!


----------



## Johnny7

It's been quite a while since I read the definitive article on the early Traut miterboxes, so take what I'm writing with a grain of salt.

I assumed yours wasn't a No 50, since you wrote that it "evolved into the #50." 
Furthermore, I found the photo by looking the box up in my database. There I saw it listed as a No 50, so that's what I ran with. I then figured that if yours wasn't a 50, and this one was, then it was a "type 1"

The type thing was a goof-since no one in their right mind would actually try and type these things.

Lastly, the box is at tool stash house no. 2, so can't check it right now.
Did that clear anything up?


----------



## theoldfart

I have the article your referring to and I still didn't pick up on the box's evolution. You and have what I think is type 2, the bronze legged version being type 1. Type 3 started in 1908 has the Richards "precisionizer for index pins.". PM me and I'll send you a pdf of the article if you want.

BTW nothing is going to "clear up" my age addled mind.


----------



## Johnny7

Kevin
I have the article somewhere-you may recall I put you on to it, after Doc put me on to it.
Nonetheless, the offer is appreciated.

btw-even without recourse to that article, I believe you've got it right. Mine doesn't have bronze feet (nor was it painted green originally), but is the "precisionizer" pin brass on earlier models?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes, it looks like it stayed brass until the redesign in 1908 as far as I can tell.


----------



## Poa

And yes, guys, there is more of a resemblance than I reckoned between the mystery box and the early Stanleys.


----------



## FoundSheep

Hi everyone,
I'm hoping to get some advice. I don't have a mitre box, except for the pos yellow plastic thing I bought a number of years ago. A mitre box has been on my radar for an while, as I get more into hand tools. Trouble is I've never seen one for sale in person. And as such, I'm not positive what to look for. I've even tried looking on eBay, but the range of quality and prices is confusing. So I'm hoping to get some guidance.
Between these, which would be good?
First.
Second.
Or what else should I look for?


----------



## bandit571

My vote is for #2…....

IF #1 had a saw with it, it would be a decent starter box.


----------



## FoundSheep

How do you know a mitre box is worth buying, if you only see it online? What do you look for? That second one seemed good to me, but I'm mostly guessing at this.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The first one is a Stanley No. 150, a very serviceable box that can use panel saws as well as back saws. The bed is on the small side, so depending on the work you want to do with it that may be a limitation. The bed on the second box is longer, a good thing for versatility, but the back wall is rather short. Makes the box more manageable in the shop, and likely won't be a limitation.

There are lots of parts on boxes. The No. 150 does have the wooden roller in back, an indication it's otherwise complete. It does not have the stop arm for repeat cuts, but that's no show stopper. The No. 150 originally was offered without a saw. Overall it's a decent performer for me. Not the highest of total precision, but has adjustments that can make it a very good tool.

On the 2246, I don't exactly know what the 'release clip' is, or what it broken actually means as I don't have that model and he didn't take a picture of the other 'not broken one.' For $90, I'd ask for more pics like that. The saw looks good, if not a bit oversized for that frame.

What to look for if you've never seen one in person… that's a real tough question indeed. Poa (LJ) and maybe others may have an extra box they'd be willing to sell, meaning you'd know where they're coming from and they'll be ready for work. Because boxes in general are fairly complex and buying is such a risky thing given the high cost of shipping…


----------



## Poa

I agree with Smitty about thr No. 150. For a small versatile box, they're hard to beat. Depends too, what kind of stuff you are building. If you're doing picture frames, small boxes, basic trim work, than a 150 might work for you. But anything more extensive, such as crown moldings, furniture building, etc, you're going to want a bigger and better box. Honestly, I'm not crazy about the single guide post style stanleys, such as that 2246. The range of adjustments do not match up to the double rod guidepost boxes, such as a 258.

When checking out Stanley boxes, remember that the part numbers are actually a code. For instance, a No. 258 means its a second generation frame, (2), and its designed for a saw that has a 5" plate, (5), 28" long (8). The saw plate is measured from the toothline to the bottom of the spine, and includes the portion encased in the handle.

As far as the busted piece on the 2246 you linked to, I believe he is referring to one of the springs mounted on the guide post, that holds the guide in its elevated position. Often, the top portion of that spring is busted off, yet it still serves its purpose.

If I was shopping for my first Stanley user box, I would first and foremost be looking for a box that is 100% complete. If you get what is seemingly a great deal on a box thats incomplete, finding parts can be problematic, and once found, they can be expensive. Cut stop components, and stock rests, can cost as much, or more than the box itself. For instance, the 2246 you link to is missing a cut stop rod, the coupler, and the tree. Currently, theres a set on ebay, for 59.99. So, you can see how costs can add up quick. Also, that busted spring on the 2246? You can figure anywhere from 20 to 30 bucks for good one, if you can find one. Occassionally, they show up cheaper, but its a roll of the dice.

Also, bear in mind it takes some real effort, and thought, to ship a box safely. And, its expensive. A seller that has a low shipping cost on these, particularly if a saw is included, is in for a rude awakening. When I ship a box and saw, its rarely less than 40 bucks, and is usually closer to seventy if its traveling any distance, like across the continent. And that doesn't include the actual costs of packaging.

So….you're on the right track asking questions at sites such as this one. And its an excellent idea linking to boxes you're considering, because a community of eyes and knowledge is a tremendous aid to making a wide purchase. And, consider Goodell Pratt boxes, and Millers Falls/ Langdons as well. Stanley ain't the only option, although it is my box of preference.


----------



## RWE

FoundSheep: I am also a newbie. I got involved on this thread about a year ago because I obtained a free 60 1/2 Stanley. I started researching info on restoration and got caught up in the the various models and histories of the boxes. I now have two 358 Stanleys, the 60 1/2 Stanley and my pride and joy, an 1889 Marsh Picture Frame Miter. I bought a Sweetheart Era 358 from POA and have never looked back. I am transitioning from power tool woodworking to handtools. I now use the 358 routinely and I find the cuts and setup routines as easy or easier than using my table saw. I make small furniture. I am working on two Shaker side tables now and all of the parts except the table top and drawer bottoms will be cut on the 358.

My recommendation to you would be to Private Message POA and see what he has to sell. Unless you are a restoration junkie, you will be better off buying one of his restored boxes. My take is that if you have a vintage and complete pre-WWII box you will be very happy. I have learned to sharpen saws. The quality of the saw is very important.


----------



## Poa

See now…theres the payback. Reading that a box I restored is working as intended, and seeing regular service, is worth far more than the monetary side of buying, restoring, and selling. The down side, of course, is that I regret selling my restorations. I wish I could keep each and everyone of them. I just did a Goodell Pratt that I haven't listed yet, and am not sure I will. Also, the Stanley No. 360, that only needs me to get off my duff and put a fresh table on it…same thing, I wanna keep it. But selling a restored box is the only way I can afford to buy the next candidate. The SW 358 I sold RWE was a very nice box, and I hated to see it go. But his comment, above, kinda makes it all worth it.


----------



## theoldfart

POA, what's up with the post drill buddy? More pics?


----------



## Poa

Kevin…you and I discussed this drill once, quite a while back. It is missing the automatic feed lever, and has had a boss welded on, over the cast badging, to take a pulley, I assume for a belt. Its a Champion Forge and Blower Co.. I know of two other post drills, as well, if they haven't sold yet, in Lancaster, (cal), that are about 55 miles from me.


----------



## theoldfart

OK, I remember the conversation now. Thanks.


----------



## JethroBodean

Will - For the record I have had a lot of good luck finding Mitre Boxes by going to Habit for Humanity Restores in my area. I have picked up four Stanley 150s and one Goodell-Pratt. I've passed up two Stanley 60s and one Stanley 358 (missing too many extras). I've also picked up a couple at pawn shops. and I've trolled Craigslist. I personally I like have the box in hand and be able to look it over, before I hand over the money.


----------



## FoundSheep

Thanks Smitty, POA, RWE, and Jethro, I greatly appreciate the advice. Explaining the numbers was especially helpful.
I'm not necessarily set on the Stanley's, which while nice just happened to be available on eBay at the time. And I agree I'd prefer to see the box in person, but I haven't come across one yet.


----------



## bandit571

Project being worked on, right now…..Instead of switching cutters in the stanley 45 for every other cut…I might set up one of the Mitre boxes I have, and do the side walls for the dados I need for drawer backs to sit in.

Set up the depth stops, layout two cut lines, saw to the depth stop….then just chisel out the waste. I can leave a 1/4" cutter in the 45, and just plough grooves for the drawer bottoms…Might save a bit of hassle that way…


----------



## bandit571

Ok, Langdon got put to work today..









Set the depth stops, made a pair of cuts….then a chisel to pop out the waste..









Four dados have been done, so far…had to adjust the stops, due to the thickness of the drawer sides were changing a bit, from one pair to the next.

Didn't have any room on the work bench for the 2246 to set it up…..Langdon can stay set up until the project is done.


----------



## Ballinger

Thanks for the information all, seems I may not get to the bottom of identifying my 1880s mitre box as posted 12/08/17.

Just for some interest this is a table build by the master cabinet maker who originally owned it:




























Thanks again!


----------



## DanKrager

Good use of a miter saw, Bandit!

DanK


----------



## RWE

Bandit: Dumb question for you. What technique do you use to set the depth stops. I am beginning to use the mitre box more and more but I have not tried dado cuts yet. Do you put a board of the proper thickness down and set the saw on it, use a ruler or what to get the stops set. I would probably use a board to register the depth after thinking about it, but I figure there might be a standard technique that you use.

Also, I have been following Paul Sellers a lot on hand tool technique. He would make a knife line, chisel out a fine saw kerf against the knife wall, then put the saw blade in it and make the dado cut. Then he would chisel out the waste on an incline, put the board in the half removed waste area and use the board to mark the second dado wall using the knife. He would then fix the kerf line for the second cut and make that cut, and finish up by cleaning out the dado. Seems that you cut use his technique to mark the lines and chisel out the kerf and then use the mitre box to make the clean cut to the proper depth. I was just wondering if you made your dado cuts by eye or by pencil lines, or might you do something like Sellers by using knife walls.


----------



## bandit571

I test cut for depth. Lines are done by tracing along the sides of the board that will go into the dado.

Once the depth has beenreached on the first cut…I can then set the stops to the saw while it is still in the kerf. I make sure the guides are snugged up to the saw's spine.

I do about the same when I cut tenons' shoulders


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## RWE

Thanks for the feedback. I have been following Sellers pretty closely and there is a collision between his techniques which are all knife wall and precision sawing versus getting the precision from a mitre box. As a matter of fact, I have been practicing mortise and tenon joints and was aggravated at my tenon shoulders. I will give it a go with the using the mitre box to cut the tenon shoulders. Maybe Sellers will not disown me, I will still be cutting the mortises with the chisel. If Paul Sellers is not someone you are familiar with, check him out on YouTube. He has a series on the "Three Joints" that is on YouTube. I had just watched his "housing dados" video when I saw your post. He was the last fellow in his village in England to serve an apprenticeship as a woodworker/carpenter. Great personality and great info.


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## bandit571

I am on his mailing list for his blogs….some things I will use of his, some I will adapt to what I have to work with.


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## BlasterStumps

Well "Poa", I think I deserve a slap up the back of my head. I got the parts you sent me and everything was going great until I tried to install the shoulder thumb screw. Little did I realize that someone had ran a tap through the normally fine threads in that hole and they were now course thread. I started to thread in the shoulder screw and it started to turn hard so I thought I would give it a little encouragement. You guessed it, it broke off in the hole. Turns out the shoulder thumb screw was cast not steel. It snapped with very little effort. I do stuff like that all the time anymore. I'm old, can I just blame it on my age? : ) I have another screw that is NC that will work.

The stop piece you sent me was exactly the same as the other one and it works great. Thank you.

I'll have to get the saw fixed up and show the whole thing on here again in a day or two. 
Thanks again for helping me with the parts.
Mike


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## theoldfart

Bandits method has another up side, repeatable uniform cuts.








By using stop blocks diagonal half laps are a snap








Uniform and accurate


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## BlasterStumps

Wards Master miter box cleaned a little, lubed a little and formally missing depth stop added to back tower. Saw plate cleaned a little, and sharpened a little. Nothing done to the handle yet. Test cuts made, both 90 and 45s. Seems to cut smoothly, square and plumb. Think this one might just be my new favorite.


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## RWE

Bandit:
I made my first shoulder cuts for some tenons. it was just practice. Great technique and consistent shoulder. It takes the human error out of the cut. Setting the depth was not a bit deal. I also set the cut length stop bar to only allow 3/4 inches (my tenon size) and that way I could use the stop to get a consistent shoulder. Is that your normal procedure as well, make use of the cut length stop to get tenon length. Thanks for the feedback. I have mentioned that I am moving from power tools to hand tools. I learned a while back, even with power tools, to practice on some scrap wood before actually using some good wood. I need to give the mitre box more thought as to what is possible with it.


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## TheFridge

I cut tenon shoulders with whatever saw I'm using to cut the tenon and pare the baseline.


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## RWE

TheFridge:
I had been cutting tenons that way as well. Bandit mentioned using the mitre box to cut the shoulders so I gave it try. I have been in flea market and antique store mode for two years now. I have learned to sharpen saws and even make saws. Between Bandit and the mitre box and Paul Sellers, I now realize that all the sweat and money that I put into getting some decent tenon saws just went down the drain. Sellers pares the tenons by using a chisel to split the wood almost to the mark, then uses a router plane to smooth out the tenon sides and get them at exact even depth on both sides of the tenon. I had been sweating making precision cuts for this, and now I just split and use the router. No need for those beautiful old tenon saws for that job. But you can't beat the router plane for getting those tenon sides dialed in.


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## bandit571

IF the mitre box's stop doesn't reach…I will add a block to the wood deck. I have to watch to make sure sawdust doesn't get in the way…I also keep an eye on the metal stop….to make sure it doesn't slip around…..









This is on the #2246….a stop block was added, as the stock metal one wasn't long enough…









About the same depth stops..









All the same length..I usually do the cheek cuts on the bandsaw…I have a jig set to cut on the waste side of the tenon cheeks. makes a lot of "dominoes"..









Even "tall" ones. 









These tend to help hold things steady while I saw….


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## RWE

I know it it is crazy, but I have to forgo the bandsaw. Using the mitre box is cheating enough, but it is hand powered. You only live once and I am bound to get a handle on doing things purely with hand tools. I am making a series of Shaker End tables and I made a nice one 4 years ago all with power tools. Looks nice, good fit and finish. Other than occasional chip out on the shoulders, the table saw makes nice tenons.

The goal now is to make the same table by hand. I will use the planer and joiner to a point, then it is hand planes and chisels etc. No logic involved here, just a desire to try something different. Surprisingly, when you are not having to jig up or do a lot of setup, like you do with power tools, you tend to move pretty fast with hand methods. I expect in a couple of years, if I live that long, I will be back to a hybrid approach.


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## RWE

For the record, I had forgotten about using a bandsaw to do cheek cuts. Thanks for reminding me. If I backslide any time soon, I will give that a go. I am not that old (66) but dang it is hard to conjure up things that used to just be floating around in my memory to be used.


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## DanKrager

You go, RWE. Those are roughly my ideals for now, too. But you're not getting any sympathy from me about age related "limitations"!

DanK


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## theoldfart

Well said old man!


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## RWE

My brother-in-law just visited with me in Birmingham to participate in the Senior Games. He is 72. I watched a 101 year old WWII veteran bowl a better game than I have ever thrown. I watched 70 and 80 year olds running track, throwing discuss, javelin etc. My perspective on aging changed.

I decided that 66 was not too bad and I might have a few years left. All of that being said, my memory is not what it used to be. I probably had cut tenon cheeks on the band saw when I did the first Shaker table and I simply had forgotten about that technique. So I am not playing the age card, just the memory card.


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## RWE

discus that is. I have probably thrown some discuss in my time.


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## bandit571

More dados today..









Waiting on a chisel to clear out the waste….

Been using a 5×28 saw in the Langdon 75…the 5×30 has no set left. Will be sending it out to the sharpening service…[email protected] $0.60 per inch…...

The 28" saw will have to do, for now.


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## Thunderdome

Hi guys, I'm new here and inspired by the many mitre box restorations. So I picked myself up a Stanley no. 60. I discovered the the locking lever for the swing arm is broken off and would love some advice from some of you experienced folk .














































So my question is can this locking lever be taken out and replaced if I manage to find one or should I just look for a complete swing arm. There are 2 small pins holding the broken off locking lever in place but I'm not sure if they can be removed or how to remove them. I can still manually release and engage the locking lever so it's not the end of the world but it's a bit of a pain.

The saw that cam with it is a 24X4. Can see a name on it yet but one of the saw nut just says 'made in USA'. It's pretty blunt and has a slight curve. The saw back is pretty straight but the toothline edge has the slight curve in it. Do you think this saw is worth restoring and sharpening?

Also, is it worth trying to straighten the feet so that it sits flat or is it not really possible? Thanks guys. Any help would be much appreciated.


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## DanKrager

Thunder, I bought one of those boxes when they were new and it's all original, still use it. My saw might be cheaper version than you have because it's a three screw WS, but the same size.

Those pins a rivets and can be removed with some care. It's not hard to make a replacement piece of handle from mild steel of appropriate thickness. Part of the joy of restoration.

Use an adjustable wrench for leverage to straighten the feet. They are mild steel and bend easily. Mine are secured to a double plywood base plate to keep them in the vicinity.

DanK


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## Thunderdome

Thanks Dan. Do you think I could just carefully punch out those pins and re-use them if I manage to find the right size steel? Or would a new lever need to be riveted on? For the feet would it be easier to heat them in boiling water before trying to straighten? I'm not that handy/experienced and don't have a lot of tools so I'm a bit limited in what I can do. But I'll be giving it a go. Do you know if the rest of the base steel or is it cast iron?

In the meantime if anyone has or comes across a stanley no 60 swing arm I'd be happy to buy it off you. Please let me know. Thanks guys.


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## DanKrager

It's unlikely that you will find a spare swing arm, but who knows. It certainly doesn't hurt to ask or look.

No need to heat the legs. Just put an adjustable wrench over the foot and lever it to straight. The rest of the base is cast. While it may be slightly malleable, don't mess with it.

You may have to carefully file off one end of the riveted pins so you can drive them out. That renders them useless to put back, but you can use any mild steel to form a replacement. Finish nails are a good place to look. But you can also squeeze in a roll pin. A roll pin is hardened steel formed into a split cylinder a few thousandths bigger than the hole with tapered ends so it can be ever so slightly compressed as it is pressed into position. The compression holds it in place, even under load.

DanK


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## RWE

Thunder and others. I have a 60 1/2. I don't know what differences there are between a 60 and a 60 1/2. If some of you wish to chime in, the 60 1/2 is intact. I will let it go for $45 bucks and you may be better off working with it, but if the parts are interchangable, you could get the swingarm off of it. I have such a small shop that I have room for only one box and I have a 50's/60's 358 spare and the 60 1/2 spare (i think it is a later model since there is no metal tag, probably 60's). They both need a good home. Shipping cost is another matter as well. If you have an interest PM me. I have some sharpened spare saws that would work with it as well. Maybe some of the veterans here can compare and contrast the model 60 and the 60 1/2.


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## Poa

The difference between a 60 and a 60 1/2…..

No difference. The 60 was sold without a saw, and the 60 1/2 was sold with a saw. 60s can be had cheap enough in the states that a busted piece isn't a road block. I'm kinda suprised at mitre box scarcity in Australia. They didn't cut mitres back in the day, in Australia?

RWE…its very satisfying to me knowing that you are enjoying the box.

Bandit. I admire your devotion and tenacity towards doing it by hand. Wish I had the time to do the same.

Blaster…Bummer on busting the piece, but glad you got the box up and running. Its looking good.

I just scored another complete No. 360 Stanley, with saw. Should arrive this week. Will be doing a complete resto on it, of course. Still have the restored wartime era no. 346. Amazed it hasn't sold. Nice box. Been busy, so haven't put a fresh table on the 360 I finished restoring a while back. Waiting to see the condition of the 360 I have coming, so I can choose which one I will keep for my own use.

The No.1004 Goodell Pratt I just finished has managed to insert itself into my psyche to such a degree that I doubt I can part with it. The No.1104 parts box that came with the GP badged saw opened my eyes to major differences that are displayed in the evolution of the GP "All Steel" boxes. Damn it, I thought I could limit my fascination with mechanical mitre boxes to the Stanley line. God help me if I run across a good deal on a Langdon.


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## GlenintheNorth

Haha…it's good for you then that you don't live near me  I have only come across one Stanley out in the wilderness, most are GP and MF/Langdon!


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## Poa

Well hey Glenn….keep your eyes open for a GP hieght stop washer for me. The one shaped in a slight curve with a boss for the slot in the stop.

And, it someone has a complete early GP All Steel that they want to upsize to a 6 inch, this parts frame I have would enable such an effort. Needs the end blocks, and other misc parts. Heres a full range of pics..























































Interesting too, the evolution of these All Steels. The frames preceding this model had wooden tables. Note that the steel tables on this one are actually held on by screws, rather than the later bent wire fasteners. Also, the frame is of fully riveted construction, rather than welds, as on the later versions. There are many other differences as well, to the later boxes. The shape of the "key" for the lever on the swingarm lock is a slot, whereas on the later boxes its a hexagon. Also, the quadrants on the early boxes were only calibrated on the top. On the later boxes, the frame rail in front of the quadrant was narrowed, enabling calibrations to be added on the face of the quadrant, as well as on the top.

NOTE: In my post preceding this one, I describe this box as a No. 1104. That is a typo, it is actually a No. 1004. It is the largest of the All Steels, designed to be used with a 6" saw.


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## Thunderdome

Thanks Dan, very helpful!

RWE do you have some pics of the 358 and 60 1/2 that you want to sell and saws that may go with them? Sorry I can't pm yet as I'm too new.

POA yes it is suprising the lack of boxes in Australia. Very few on ebay and the ones I've seen are only a few stanleys or craftsman and a few of the smaller cheaper type like a stanley 115/6. Haven't seen any Millers Falls at all. POA do you have some on sale???

Anyone know about this craftsman 3650? I gather it's one of the Miller Falls all steel type rebadged for Craftsman. Anyone know what size saw should go with this? And are the Craftsman saws decent quality? Would you consider this a desirable box to have? Cheers guys.


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## RWE

I will post some pictures tomorrow.


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## BlasterStumps

I was looking at this particular Stanley 60 (on the right in the first picture) and realized the frame, although smaller all around, looked similar to my Stanley 360A. The bosses for the stock holding rods are there, they just never were drilled out. I might have to study that out some more and maybe I will drill them and tap them for set screws. I have the one set of rods for the 360A that I could easily swap back and forth. I don't get the 360A out very often because it's huge and the saw is huge. The 60 would be better for small pieces. Anyway here are a couple pictures of the two boxes with the one pic showing the back of both. My other Stanley 60 does not have the bosses on the back or on the ends like this one does. It could be older than this one? Don't know.


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## DLK

*Thunderdome*, According to this the C 3650 is equivalent to the MF-L 74A. The MF-L 74C was sold with a 28" x 5" saw. And this also says the MF-L 74A uses a 28" x 5" saw. So I belive it should be that i.e. 28" x 5".

I love my MF-L 74C so yes the C3650 is of decent quality.


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## RWE

Thunder:

Here are pictures of the 358. It has been disassembled for refurb. All parts are there. I actually got some screws that were missing from POA. I have about $60 in the box and will part with it for that. As far as a saw, I would be reluctant to part with the Simonds saw that I picked up for it. The Simonds is a beaut. I have an Atkins saw with the Stanley Sweetheart etch that came with my Sweetheart 358. You can pick up a saw here or on Ebay. I have put a lot of time into jointing and sharpening my saws and believe me, 28 inches is a lot of sharpening.

See the following post on the 60 1/2. I am second guessing my decision to sell it.


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## RWE

Any ideas on the date of this 60 or 60 1/2. I guess it is a distinction without a difference. It has cast feet, the dial numbers are cast in the body. There is "Patd 3-15-04" on the saw guides. I had thought that it was a 60's era model, based on the fact that there is no metal id badge. The cast feet and patent dates make me wonder otherwise now. Maybe it is not a 60? This was the first mitre box that came my way and I know a bit more now, so maybe I missed on my initial assessment.

And yes Jon, i have too thick a wooden bed on it. I will get that taken care of.

Any ideas on the model and age. if it is older, why no metal ID badge? Help!


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## Poa

I think it is probably much earlier than 60s, by decades. Not sure, but I don't think they ever put metal model tags on 'em. Here is what the frame directly preceding your frame looked like.

















y










Whats odd, is the patent no.s on my box are later than the ones on your box. Yet the guides on mine I believe to be the earlier guides. Perhaps Kevin, (old fart) can shed some light on this.


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## Thunderdome

> Any ideas on the date of this 60 or 60 1/2. I guess it is a distinction without a difference. It has cast feet, the dial numbers are cast in the body. There is "Patd 3-15-04" on the saw guides. I had thought that it was a 60 s era model, based on the fact that there is no metal id badge. The cast feet and patent dates make me wonder otherwise now. Maybe it is not a 60? This was the first mitre box that came my way and I know a bit more now, so maybe I missed on my initial assessment.
> 
> And yes Jon, i have too thick a wooden bed on it. I will get that taken care of.
> 
> Apparently this is a 50 1/2 and it looks similar to your's above so yours might be 50 1/2. Seller in Australia wants $250 plus postage for this. Uncleaned and not sharpened too.


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## RWE

More pictures of my ? 50 1/2 or 60 1/2. Anyone familiar with a 50 1/2??? This looks like the same model that Thunder shows above.

The bed is 18 inches wide. Outside width is 4 inches, center is 5 inches.










The frame looks very close to the photo above from Thunder.










Swingarm has Pat. 8-2-04










Thunder: My own opinion is that $250 is way too high for what you get with one of these models. I guess it depends on what you are wanting. I like the clips that keep the saw locked on the top of the guides on a 358 and most of the other bigger models. I like the clamps and the end stops. There is so much more functionality when you add those ingredients. The one that I am showing is more of a collector piece to me. I have some panel saws and I may go ahead and refurb my (whatever it is) and try using it with a panel saw for kicks and giggles, but the bed is so narrow, you are limited to what you can do. I just kind of like old stuff, so now I have more interest in it.

It does appear to be identical to what your Australian seller is calling a 50 1/2.


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## Johnny7

*RWE*

I suspect your box dates to about 1915 or so. This would have been one of the "Victor" models of Stanley miter boxes-a perfectly fine box, but lacking some of the bells and whistles of higher-priced models.

The lineage back to the original Traut boxes is still evident.

Note that the style of saw guide allows for the use of a panel saw.


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## RWE

I guess I should Google a bit more. Seems my 60 1/2 is a 50 1/2 for sure. I will use the Lumberjocks posting pictures for the refurb. At least I started with red on my feet.

Thanks for the feedback Johnny 7. I guess I will have to investigate Trout boxes now. I did notice that the Lumberjocks model and the Ebay model show a tag in the center of the number scale. My model does not have room for a tag. so it may be in fact a Traut box or an earlier Stanley. Other than that detail, it looks like the other 50 1/2 models. There are no brand indicators at all on the body of the box.

Lumberjocks posting for a 50 1/2 from 2011

Ebay Listing for a 50 1/2


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## Johnny7

The Traut (not Trout) boxes are Stanley boxes.

Have a look at post #2569 for starters.


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## RWE

I got it spelled right in the second paragraph. Oh well. Going to check post 2569 now. Thanks


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## Johnny7

> I got it spelled right in the second paragraph.
> 
> - RWE


Yeah you did-(I missed that)-wasn't trying to nitpick you; just didn't want you doing a futile search


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## RWE

Maybe The OldFart will chime in sometime. I am going to stick with your 1915 date, model 50 or 50 1/2. The lack of a plate on the number scale makes me think it predates the ones that I linked above from Ebay and Lumberjocks.

In looking at the discussion around post 2569 it would seem likely that it may be a Type 1? 50 post 1908. I guess I can check the locking pin when I refurb it and see if it is brass.


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## theoldfart

We are on a road trip and Johnny7 is actually more of an authority than me. The saw guides on yours I think were patented in 1904 or so. Great back a few pages and you should find a discussion of types. Yours is either a third or fourth iteration of the 50's.


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## RWE

The guides show a 3-15-04 Patent date, so you are right on that. The box came from my deceased neighbor's old shed. He had a workbench with a shoulder vise mounted in it. I pulled that off and dodged wasps and recovered the miter box. The new owners were tearing down the work shed and gave me permission to grab anything of value. So since it was free and from my first browsing on the web, I thought it was a 60's 60 1/2 and I have not paid much more attention to it. Now I have to give it some respect. I guess a refurb is in order.

The only question I have left is this Traut business. Was Traut a Stanley Model line, or did they buy up a company called Traut and then derive a model from that acquisition. I know that Disston and Stanley were often buying up competitors and then selling their inventory. I understand my box is a Stanley. I am guessing that Traut was a company that they acquired. I assume "Victor" that Johnny 7 mentioned is just a marketing series, maybe post WWI hence "Victor".

Many thanks to all who fleshed out this info.


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## RWE

I guess I should Google before I reply. I found this on Traut

Traut Patent

It seems that Traut obtained a patent in 1904 and assigned it to Stanley. Whether he actually made a series before he gave up the right is another question. I therefore take it that a Traut box is a box based on his patent specification, by Stanley.

J. A. TRAUT;

METER 30X.

APPLIOATIOH FILED APR. 24, 1903. v

N0 MODEL. z SHEETS-SHEET 2.

WITNESSES: /N VE/VTOI? Patented. September 27, 1904.

UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE.

JUSTUS A. TRAUT, OF NEW BRITAIN, CONNECTICUT, ASSIGNOR TO THE STANLEY RULE & LEVEL COMPANY, OF NEW BRITAIN, CONNECTICUT, A CORPORATION OF CONNECTICUT.


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## Poa

Well…its all very intetesting, isn't it?

No matter how many times I recieve a packaged tool in the mail, I still feel like a kid at Christmas when I open the box. I recieved my latest No.360 today, a day earlier than I expected it. And I am far from disappointed. It is near complete, only missing one of the pointed and knurled cap screws, that are threaded into the back legs, that serve to keep the box form sliding around on the bench.

The saw, a Disston, has the correct Stanley mitre box etch, and is a full 6". I love it. This box is my least favored color, the gray frame w/ blue legs and swingarm. But, seeing as how it is correct, from stem to stern, including the saw, I imagine I will restore it as original. Probably against my better judgement, as the 346 I have with this color scheme has languished on ebay for quite some time. But really, maybe I oughta consider putting together a full collection of all the sizes of this particular vintage. Something for me to think about, anyway.


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## Johnny7

> I assume "Victor" that Johnny 7 mentioned is just a marketing series, maybe post WWI hence "Victor".
> 
> - RWE


"Victor" and "Defiance" were tool line names concocted by a less-than-happy Leonard Bailey following litigation and a split with the Stanley Rule & Level Co. (get it?)
Stanley later bought out both lines and thereby acquired the names.

Here's a shot of a miter box very similar to yours, taken from a 1914 catalog. Don't read too much into the illustration-Stanley was slow to update the artwork for their various lines.


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## BlasterStumps

"Poa" Nice 360. Congrats. That frame sure looks similar to the Wards I have. I think you have a good one there. The saws sure work nice and smooth in those saw guides with the rollers. 
Mike

Edit: If you can, post a picture of the screw that you were describing. I have no idea what they look like.


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## bandit571

Traut was a designer and tool maker for Stanley, and a LOT of Patents were issued to him, and then to Stanley.

Lot of Stanley designs were his.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

> Thanks Dan, very helpful!
> 
> RWE do you have some pics of the 358 and 60 1/2 that you want to sell and saws that may go with them? Sorry I can t pm yet as I m too new.
> 
> POA yes it is suprising the lack of boxes in Australia. Very few on ebay and the ones I ve seen are only a few stanleys or craftsman and a few of the smaller cheaper type like a stanley 115/6. Haven t seen any Millers Falls at all. POA do you have some on sale???
> 
> Anyone know about this craftsman 3650? I gather it s one of the Miller Falls all steel type rebadged for Craftsman. Anyone know what size saw should go with this? And are the Craftsman saws decent quality? Would you consider this a desirable box to have? Cheers guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Thunderdome


That box is a MF Langdon Acme 74A, not C. The giveaway is that thumbscrew in the right leg casting. I need that screw for my 73A!

If your box did not come with the whole length stop assembly, you will be VERY hard-pressed to locate the parts. Fabbing up a repro is far more likely. Over on TTT there is a guy who made his own. They look very serviceable, too. I got no extra right now or I'd beg him to make me a set, too.

The screw dates that to smack in the middle of WWII. In catalog 42 (1938) and later revisions, the previous version of the box was peddled that had only a bent piece of nickeled steel that fits over the stock rests and is secured by screwing the stock rest down on top of it. In catalog 49 (1949 first revision), this version of the box you have is listed only as parts. The box itself was never hawked whole in any catalog.

It's a great box that is a rebrand of the MF top of the line.

The saw should also be a Disston rebrand, a late 40s beech handled version.

You got a great box there. Clean it, sharpen the saw, and make some stuff.

Edit: I should re-read replies before I dive in! Dan is correct. I should have read back, the first time I read it was hours ago


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## RWE

Good info on the 50 1/2. That little sucker pulled me into this world and now I am hooked. Be careful about what someone gives you for free, it could turn out to be expensive.

Somewhere back in this thread there is mentioned that there was a hole in the guide that one could place a nail in so that a panel or standard saw would not rise too high in the guides and damage the saw set. I went to examine mine and lo and behold it was there on the front guide but not on the back??. I guess the idea is that you set the height stop on the back and make sure that your cut line and saw plate height don't allow the saw to get to high on the back guide posts. Seems that there would be a nail hole in both guides.

Front guide










Rear guide










I am going to play around with using a panel saw in it later tonight.

Johnny 7. Victor and Defiance was more about courtroom wars and not world wars I guess. Nothing like a sense of humor.


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## Thunderdome

> *Thunderdome*, According to this the C 3650 is equivalent to the MF-L 74A. The MF-L 74C was sold with a 28" x 5" saw. And this also says the MF-L 74A uses a 28" x 5" saw. So I belive it should be that i.e. 28" x 5".
> 
> I love my MF-L 74C so yes the C3650 is of decent quality.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Yes thanks Combo. It definitely looks like a 1940 74A I compared other pics with the underside as well. Seems to be only missing end stops.
> https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/gallery/millers-falls/langdon/74a-ca-1940
> 
> Is this worth $120 plus postage? would set me back about $220AUD all up


----------



## Thunderdome

> Thanks Dan, very helpful!
> 
> RWE do you have some pics of the 358 and 60 1/2 that you want to sell and saws that may go with them? Sorry I can t pm yet as I m too new.
> 
> POA yes it is suprising the lack of boxes in Australia. Very few on ebay and the ones I ve seen are only a few stanleys or craftsman and a few of the smaller cheaper type like a stanley 115/6. Haven t seen any Millers Falls at all. POA do you have some on sale???
> 
> Anyone know about this craftsman 3650? I gather it s one of the Miller Falls all steel type rebadged for Craftsman. Anyone know what size saw should go with this? And are the Craftsman saws decent quality? Would you consider this a desirable box to have? Cheers guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Thunderdome
> 
> That box is a MF Langdon Acme 74A, not C. The giveaway is that thumbscrew in the right leg casting. I need that screw for my 73A!
> 
> If your box did not come with the whole length stop assembly, you will be VERY hard-pressed to locate the parts. Fabbing up a repro is far more likely. Over on TTT there is a guy who made his own. They look very serviceable, too. I got no extra right now or I d beg him to make me a set, too.
> 
> The screw dates that to smack in the middle of WWII. In catalog 42 (1938) and later revisions, the previous version of the box was peddled that had only a bent piece of nickeled steel that fits over the stock rests and is secured by screwing the stock rest down on top of it. In catalog 49 (1949 first revision), this version of the box you have is listed only as parts. The box itself was never hawked whole in any catalog.
> 
> It s a great box that is a rebrand of the MF top of the line.
> 
> The saw should also be a Disston rebrand, a late 40s beech handled version.
> 
> You got a great box there. Clean it, sharpen the saw, and make some stuff.
> 
> Edit: I should re-read replies before I dive in! Dan is correct. I should have read back, the first time I read it was hours ago
> 
> - GlenintheNorth


Thanks for the info Glen. I haven't bought it yet but seriously want to now. He said the saw is a 26" craftsman branded and is 6" from top to bottom so probably 5" under the spine. I can get it shipped for about $220AUD. I'm not paying too much do you think?


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## Poa

Thunderdome…

I gotta believe theres a box in Australia with your name on it. I hate to see you pay that kinda money for a mitre box. Are there any Australian woodworkers sites that you could start posted "want" ads on?


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## DLK

> *Thunderdome*, According to this the C 3650 is equivalent to the MF-L 74A. The MF-L 74C was sold with a 28" x 5" saw. And this also says the MF-L 74A uses a 28" x 5" saw. So I belive it should be that i.e. 28" x 5".
> 
> I love my MF-L 74C so yes the C3650 is of decent quality.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> Yes thanks Combo. It definitely looks like a 1940 74A I compared other pics with the underside as well. Seems to be only missing end stops.
> https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home/gallery/millers-falls/langdon/74a-ca-1940
> 
> Is this worth $120 plus postage? would set me back about $220AUD all up
> 
> - Thunderdome


Well I don't know. I picked up mine from a flea market Arizona for far far less and had it shipped to me in Michigan.
I think after buying a saw and a few missing parts I have about $80 into it.

The flea market price will be far less then the antique store price which will likely be less than the ebay price.

Looking over e-bay $220AUD = $173USD for a Box and saw in good condition shipped is not unreasonable.

In australia (I visit often) you can find brass backed saws and wooden spoke shaves and I suppose other tools cheaper than in the U.S. but planes, and Miter boxes are more expensive as they seem harder to find.


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## Thunderdome

> Thunderdome…
> 
> I gotta believe theres a box in Australia with your name on it. I hate to see you pay that kinda money for a mitre box. Are there any Australian woodworkers sites that you could start posted "want" ads on?
> 
> - Poa


Hey hold on a minute POA. Don't you have a 346 on ebay for $200  Yeah I might have to search some forums here and see what the go is. But definitely a lot less selling in Australia.


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## Poa

Yes..Thunderdome…I do have a 246 that I'm asking 200 bucks for. Fully restored, repainted, complete, 100% correct, with its original Disston. Ask RWE if my boxes are worth what I get for 'em.


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## RWE

Thunder:

I would mention some other factors. Whatever you buy, look for clamps, length stop rods and roller bearings in the saw guides. I have the 1889 Marsh and the now identified 50 1/2 Stanley that both have metal on metal on the saw guides and I much prefer sawing with the bearings in the 358. You also should get a model that lets the saw hang at the top of the saw guides while you place the work in position. I put a lot of stock in age. Vintage is good. Vintage that works is better.

I was never satisfied with the 50 1/2 and that lead me to this forum. The 50 1/2 and others like it are good for random cuts, but if you perceive that you will be doing some more serious woodworking, those other features make it a pleasure to work with a mitre box.

For the record, what is your age range? Are you an old geezer like me or a young fellow starting out?


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## Thunderdome

> Yes..Thunderdome…I do have a 246 that I m asking 200 bucks for. Fully restored, repainted, complete, 100% correct, with its original Disston. Ask RWE if my boxes are worth what I get for em.
> 
> - Poa


I don't doubt that POA. I wanted ask you to sell me one but then I saw your ebay page that said you don't post internationally. I'd rather pay $200 for a beautifully restored and complete one by someone who cares and knows what they are doing. Theres plenty on ebay asking for that and more and not restored or complete. Wasn't having a go at you, just smiled when you said you wouldn't want to see me pay that sort of money. No offence mate, just some aussie humor. And yes the pics you posted above look stunning. Especially that 346 and 1004 goodell pratt.


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## RWE

I will vouch for POA. I have followed this thread for a couple of years and he knows his stuff. He keeps parts and does a great job on the paint and refurb. I have a very nice Sweetheart 358 that he showed pictures of above that I purchased from him. So if you want a box that is ready to go, he is the man.


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## Thunderdome

I would mention some other factors. Whatever you buy, look for clamps, length stop rods and roller bearings in the saw guides. I have the 1889 Marsh and the now identified 50 1/2 Stanley that both have metal on metal on the saw guides and I much prefer sawing with the bearings in the 358. You also should get a model that lets the saw hang at the top of the saw guides while you place the work in position. I put a lot of stock in age. Vintage is good. Vintage that works is better.

I was never satisfied with the 50 1/2 and that lead me to this forum. The 50 1/2 and others like it are good for random cuts, but if you perceive that you will be doing some more serious woodworking, those other features make it a pleasure to work with a mitre box.

For the record, what is your age range? Are you an old geezer like me or a young fellow starting out?

- RWE
[/QUOTE]

Im 44 and starting out pretty much but really fascinated by these old mitre boxes. Don't own a power saw so the few things I make I enjoy doing by hand. I just picked up a stanley 60 which needs a new locking lever for the swing arm and needs a restore and saw sharpen. Cost me $80AUD and that was a steel compared to what the few others go for here. So have a good mid size one to work on and planning to get a bigger one and also a smaller one like a stanley 150. I have an appreciation for them and want to collect a few over time. The craftsman 3560 I posted about earlier is almost complete except for the length stop. The stock guides are there and it looks in reasonable nick so thinking seriously about it. Pricey but reasonable for what I can get here. Rollers are there too. One thing I did find here recently was an Ulmia 352 in pretty good condition. An English guy was leaving the country and wanted to sell it. 25yrs old. He wanted $350 for it but I ended up getting it for $150. When I saw that they sell new for $655US I figured it was a good buy. Going to get one of those new japanese blades for it


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## Thunderdome

> Thunder:
> 
> I would mention some other factors. Whatever you buy, look for clamps, length stop rods and roller bearings in the saw guides. I have the 1889 Marsh and the now identified 50 1/2 Stanley that both have metal on metal on the saw guides and I much prefer sawing with the bearings in the 358. You also should get a model that lets the saw hang at the top of the saw guides while you place the work in position. I put a lot of stock in age. Vintage is good. Vintage that works is better.
> 
> I was never satisfied with the 50 1/2 and that lead me to this forum. The 50 1/2 and others like it are good for random cuts, but if you perceive that you will be doing some more serious woodworking, those other features make it a pleasure to work with a mitre box.
> 
> For the record, what is your age range? Are you an old geezer like me or a young fellow starting out?
> 
> - RWE


Im 44 and starting out pretty much but really fascinated by these old mitre boxes. Don't own a power saw so the few things I make I enjoy doing by hand. I just picked up a stanley 60 which needs a new locking lever for the swing arm and needs a restore and saw sharpen. Cost me $80AUD and that was a steel compared to what the few others go for here. So have a good mid size one to work on and planning to get a bigger one and also a smaller one like a stanley 150. I have an appreciation for them and want to collect a few over time. The craftsman 3560 I posted about earlier is almost complete except for the length stop. The stock guides are there and it looks in reasonable nick so thinking seriously about it. Pricey but reasonable for what I can get here. Rollers are there too. One thing I did find here recently was an Ulmia 352 in pretty good condition. An English guy was leaving the country and wanted to sell it. 25yrs old. He wanted $350 for it but I ended up getting it for $150. When I saw that they sell new for $655US I figured it was a good buy. Going to get one of those new japanese blades for it


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## Poa

Thanks RWE.

Thunderdome…I am not a fan of the Ebay Global shipping program, because of thier treatment of tools that have rosewood. I shipped a nice No. 2 Stanley to a guy in Canada and it was confinscated at the border.

However, I wonder what it would cost to have a box shipped to you through that program.

BLASTER….heres a pick of the screw I described that keeps your box from sliding around on the work bench. Like this one, the majority of them are no longer pointed on the end, but when new they had a definite sharp point that you could screw down slightly so the point engaged your bench top. Its not rare for both to be missing, because so many guys screwed their boxes down onto a board through the holes on the legs. Its unusual for just one to be missing, like on the No. 360 I just got. You gotta be careful when seeking replacements, because over the years two different diameters and thread were used. This 360 has the smaller diameter with a finer thread than the later ones.


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## Thunderdome

Poa, I've seen shipping to australia quoted on ebay from about $50 up to $200. But most around $100. Not sure why they vary, might use different methods.


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## Johnny7

> BLASTER….heres a pick of the screw I described that keeps your box from sliding around on the work bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


These are actually provided for the purpose of *levelling* the miter box.


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## Poa

Johnny7

Yes, in the instruction sheets for the Stanley boxes, it says the following…

"5. Pointed screws level the box, and stop it from sliding."

But, on page 129, in the Sweetheart era catalogue I have, it says this, with no mention of leveling….

"The legs are detachable, and being of malleable iron, are unbreakable. Two cone-pointed screws on the rear legs prevent the box from sliding when in use."

So…considering that I have never had a Stanley box, with the cast legs, that does not sit solidly on a flat surface, I have NEVER had to level a box with these screws. However, if the box is not screwed down to a mounting board, it is absolutely necessary to utilize these pointed screws to hold the box from sliding while it is in use. So…with that in mind, what do you think their utility is?

I have had Stanley boxes that don't sit level. Those would be the later boxes with the bent steel legs. Interesting enough, those do not have these screws.


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## BlasterStumps

I didn't know about those screws for the back legs. Thanks for sharing the information. They wouldn't do me much good however as I have my boxes mounted on MDF with short pieces of 3/4" dowel protruding from underneath that match up with the dog holes in my bench. All but the Wards clone of the Stanley 150 that I have anyway. I just clamp a cleat that it has on the bottom in the vise. All that aside though, I learned a little more about the old mitre boxes. Seems there is always something like this that pops up from time to time and I get to learn about something I didn't know existed or had not seen in the past. Thanks again Pao. 
Mike in CO


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## Johnny7

> Johnny7
> 
> Yes, in the instruction sheets for the Stanley boxes, it says the following…
> 
> "5. Pointed screws level the box, and stop it from sliding."
> 
> But, on page 129, in the Sweetheart era catalogue I have, it says this, with no mention of leveling….
> 
> "The legs are detachable, and being of malleable iron, are unbreakable. Two cone-pointed screws on the rear legs prevent the box from sliding when in use."
> 
> So…considering that I have never had a Stanley box, with the cast legs, that does not sit solidly on a flat surface, I have NEVER had to level a box with these screws. However, if the box is not screwed down to a mounting board, it is absolutely necessary to utilize these pointed screws to hold the box from sliding while it is in use. So…with that in mind, what do you think their utility is?
> 
> I have had Stanley boxes that don t sit level. Those would be the later boxes with the bent steel legs. Interesting enough, those do not have these screws.
> 
> - Poa


Yes-I'm more than casually familiar with the literature-my point was that levelling is the primary reason for their existence. The front legs have holes to allow fastening the frame to a board or benchtop to keep it from moving.


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## Poa

Blaster….the amount of parts, fasteners, adjustmemts, etc, on the Stanley boxes are unequaled by any of the competitors. The myriad of adjustments are one of the reasons I favor these boxes. But, when buying them, there are a number of common pitfalls. Certain fasteners and components are prone to be missing, and there are common breaks in various pieces that can be easily missed by prospective online buyers. Perhaps, when I have the time, I'll do a post on what to watch for, specifically, that is commonly broken, or missing, on these boxes when buying online.


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## Poa

Well….Johnny. Good naturedly, I would disagree. I would say the primary reason for them is to stop the sliding, considering that I've never had a box, with cast legs, that required leveling when sitting on a bench top. And I have now refurbished over twelve of them. All of them set solid, without rocking, without utilizing these screws as levelers.


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## Johnny7

Fair enough

I would like to add a general observation regarding these boxes.

One needs a historical perspective to realize that the vast majority of these were working men's tools-they seldom sat atop level-surfaced workbenches, but rather were employed on job sites. The makeshift miter station may have been a few planks atop a pair of sawhorses, or worse.
Levelling-keeping them from rocking-was a significant function of the bolts in question-a nail or two in the holes provided in the front legs would have cured any sliding.

The modern DIY movement doesn't really gain momentum until after the second World War. Your average homeowner wasn't cutting miters with this box atop his home workshop bench.

Just one man's view.


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## Poa

And heres one man's perspective, based on experience. When I apprenticed in a custom furniture, in the late sixties and seventies, we did alot of custom trim and door work, in the homes of our usually quite wealthy clientele. Our in shop work never utilized these mitre boxes. But all of our on site installation work employed the large 6" box. And of course, the box was tuned, sharpened, and mounted on a board that fit its designated horses. The idea that we would do field work by throwing a couple of planks on some horses, throw the box on top of them, and endeavor to "level" the box is ludicrous. Some wood butchers may have approched their installations in that manner. But in this shop, such a slapshod approach to field work woulda been your ticket to the exit. Whatever the reason for these screws, as a point of debate, seems kinda mute. They are quite often missing, and the reason seems quite obvious.


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## Johnny7

Your recollections of working in the homes of "wealthy clientele" represents (generously) maybe 1% of the reality of home building in the era of hand-tool only work.
Your snobbery ("wood butchers") is an affront to the many hard-working men who have gone before us.


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## Poa

Lol….Johnny, it was obvious from your first post concerning these screws that this debate would degenerate to its current condition. How 'bout we just concede that you are 100% correct, about everything, and that my snobbery, is an afront to kittens, dogs, race horses, and wallaroos, in addition to these hard working woodworkers of yore.

So, you have now reached the conclusion to this debate, with a result that nurtures and validates whatever petty resentments it were that fueled your initial comment. Congratulations, you win.

Meanwhile, I'll get back to work servicing my wealthy clients, plying a trade that has required no small effort to reach where it has taken me.


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## bandit571

Have been running a Disston 5×28 saw in my Langdon 75, lately…..the 5×30 saw that goes with it has almost zero set to the teeth! I'll send it out for a sharpening, later…maybe have the fellow add a bit of set back to it.

About the main difference between my No. 75 and a No. 74…...length of the saw…..about it. So, I have been running it as a 74…...









Depth stops are down to normal cuts, now. Was able to use something else for dados..









Seemed to work well enough..


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## FoundSheep

Poa, I'd definitely be interested if you ever post a guide to buying mitre boxes online. I haven't found one yet that seems good.


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## RWE

Bandit and others:

I am one of those fellows that gets on a kick about whatever and then pursues it till he gets it figured out, then on to the next thing. Well I got into saws. So I had to learn to sharpen them. I have yet to see anyone on here mention that they sharpen their own saws. I have about 20 to 25 saws now that I have done, all in my collection. I made a few mistakes, not enough set on some of them etc. But over all it is a very learnable process.

You can make your own saw vise. Files are a bit of an issue, but they are being sold on Ebay. I have made angle guides out of blocks of wood with a given pleam angle cut into a line so you can use it to guide your filing. *Anybody on here that sharpens.* I know Bob Summerfield is on on here from time to time, but I don't see anyone mention this. Just curious. Seems to go with collecting mitre boxes.

One last comment. I enjoy the process of sharpening, but I would not want to do it as a service. Bit of thankless task and you would never get your money for the time you put into it. But for my own stuff, I enjoy it.


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## bandit571

I will sharpen SOME saws….upper limit is at about 7ppi…...hard to see the teeth above that, at least for eyes that tend to see double….

Have a Wentworth No.1 saw vise….1897-ish…...

The place I drop my finer toothed saws at, charges about $0.60 an inch. Minimum is $14. I usually drop off two saws…one long, one short. 1/2 drive each way…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My Stanley SW #346 happens to have both screws,










and I have this instruction sheet:










Sorry for the sideways pic (I wanted to get a clear shot and this worked) but we're talking about MB98:










Here's what the sheet says about MB98 (TWO CONE POINTED LEVELING SCREWS):










So…

They're to keep the box from sliding AND can be used to level the box if necessary.

What may be of interest is the board my mitre box is mounted on… the screws exist because they're more than halfway 'set into' said mounting board… probably because there were holes drilled to accept them because they're hardly pointy. Cone pointed is an accurate statement.


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## Poa

Gosh, Will, I don't know. Would it be snobbish of me?

Just to clarify. I don't mention "wealthy clientele" to be snobbish. The point, is that I apprenticed in a shop that had a master who was skilled and accomplished enough that he had risen to a pinnacle position as a master furniture maker. If I wanted to be snobbish, I'd start dropping names about who his clientele was. But even carpenters of yore, if any good, that were servicing a more mainstream clientele, would be loath to set up a rickety work stand upon which to make finish cuts. Assume for a moment, you have thrown a couple of 2×6s on your horses. Now you set your mitre box on it, and it rocks. So, you screw in the knurled screw on the high leg, and take the rock out of it. Now what? Its gonna just sit there where you placed it while you cut with it all day? Or, are you going to show up on the jobsite with a set up for your box, that is secure, steady, and dictated by experience and habit? This is even more true of the craftsmen that were doing the repetitive actions of mainstream carpentry. Ever watch a good finish carpenter do finish work in a tract? Half hazard work stations are not the hallmark of the "hardworking men that have gone before us". Which, incidentally, many posting here ARE to many of the younger and upcoming carpenters commenting here. If anyone thinks its a cakewalk to get to the point that your clientele is the more privileged amongst us, then they don't know squat about how one gets there.

Nuff' said. Johnny pissed me off. All he had to say was, "These screws were ALSO for leveling the box". Who coulda argued with that?

And yes, Will, I'll soon do a post about what to look for, (IN MY OPINION), when buying a Stanley box.


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## Poa

Thanks Smitty. I have the same sheet, and, in fact, I quoted it in my original response to Johnny's comment. Sorry for my sarcasm, above, but I just don't care for petty BS. Its not why I come here.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Poa, I did see the reference. I love to take pictures and was actually pretty pleased I had not only the sheet but both screws. Yes, it's both. And if I might steer the dialog just a bit while staying on point, isn't it a very strange 'discriminator', these screws? I don't believe they're capable of meeting either stated purpose well. I try to put myself in the think tank of New Britain: "Hey Boss! I bet if we add these little cone screws to our high end boxes, people will be more inclined to choose Stanley over the competition!" "Brilliant, Smithers! Let's do it!"

Hah.

They're not pointed enough to grip. And I suppose it's too hard to drive nails (or screws?) through each of the four legs… But, as you've pointed out, it was easy enough… they're typically missing.


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## RWE

Put a picture of the Wentworth up sometime if you are inclined. I have an E.C. Sterns. I had a Disston but it never clamped properly and I let it go.

I use a pair 3.0 Readers when I sharpen. You can see in my setup, I have a light and a magnifier, but with the 3.0 glasses and the wooden guides for the angles, it is not too bad. Handsaws are easy. The backsaws and dovetail saws are where it gets more interesting. Summerfi has been a big help. The higher the tooth count, the better your sawset and files have to be. A shout out to Summerfi for giving me Ebay sources for quality tools.


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## Poa

Smitty…chuckling here. You're right, other than being gimmicky, they really are quite worthless. However, I did have a mint 358 that had obviously seen very little use, and the screws were quite sharp on the end. They woulda grabbed. But not good enough for repetitive cutting. And yes, I suppose you could "level"the box with them on an uneven surface, then pound a nail in the holes on the front legs. But I really don't think that you'd have a steady box when your saw was on the backstroke, particularly if cutting hardwoods. And I think way more Joe Homeowners used these boxes than Johnny realizes. The amount of boxes I get with saw kerfs in the guide post mounting blocks aren't exactly the scars of a proffessional user. I mean, what carpenter do you know that would manage to put a 1/16" deep kerf in a piece of solid steel, using his mitre box saw? Just imagining the noise is enough to give me nightmares.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"But not good enough for repetitive cutting."

Exactly, hence the gimmick, right? And I'm guessing a rocking box would be annoying, so a level screw would be nice, but aren't there shims if I'm a carpenter? And so on, and so on.

Like many other tool 'features' Stanley dreamed up (squirrel tails on block planes, the #248A, and even the #444 entirely), it was to make a buck and address a supposed/perceived (not always genuine) need.


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## BlasterStumps

Hey Bandit, nice work on the dados. I need to spend some time sharpening my cutters for the 45 so I can try that. I have a box made for the 45, that's as far as I have got with it. You are doing nice work there. 
Mike in CO


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## Thunderdome

Warranted Superior saw buttons? Hey guys is the quality of these warranted superior mitre saws considered up there with the best? According to Distonian institute they are probably 2nd tier as Diston didn't want to put their name on lower quality saws.

"Q. Was "Warranted Superior" a Disston brand?

A. Many saw makers going back to early 19th century England made medallions with the Warranted Superior (WS) label. It pre-dates Henry Disston (1819-1878) by at least a generation, possibly more. Use of the phrase is not limited to saws. A quick online search shows it was used in advertising for manufactured goods such as shoes and Remington pistols. Warranted and guaranteed have the same meaning, which is the maker's word that his product is superior. The claim is only as good as the word of the maker, if you think about it. 
Most English WS medallions have a crown and most American ones have an eagle. Later Disston-made WS medallions have the words "Warranted Superior," a circle of dots, stars at the three and nine o'clock positions, and appear with or without an eagle. Some feature a keystone instead of the eagle. The illustration of replacement medallions in the Disston 1906 catalog shows an eagle, the 1911 catalog has a keystone, and illustrations in the 1914, 1918, and 1923 catalogs feature a blank space in the center of the medallion. None are stamped with the name "Disston." Later medallions on some of the Keystone-brand saws (1935-1954) have eagles. An example of this is shown, left. 
Most of the larger American manufacturers made saws with both branded medallions and WS versions. The purpose would have been to differentiate between the products on which they put their name and lower-priced tools on which they chose not to put their brand name. The irony is that, in America, the Warranted Superior label often was put on the companies' inferior products. Many top-grade English saws have WS medallions while others have brand-name medallions. 
When you find an American WS saw, there may be a slightly less than 50% chance that it was made by Disston. Disston had a very large portion of the market, but it was not a monopoly. Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds (1900-1926) were a few of the large saw manufacturers that made saws with some form of a WS medallion with an eagle. Atkins' secondary line was actually labeled "Phoenix Warranted."


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## bandit571

Wentworth..









Attached to a 2×6 that can then clamp in the end vise….
.








And the latest saw I sharpened on it. Disston No. 7, 7ppi. 26" with nib.


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## RWE

That is a bad looking vise. I think I saw one of those in an Antiques shop in Foley Alabama, near Gulf Shores. I remember it because of the curved lever handle at the bottom. I will check it out better the next time I get down there. I had the wife in tow and the price was pretty high as I recall, so I did not dwell on it.

Thanks for posting.


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## Poa

THUNDERDOME…

We can't make that work on ebay. Contact me at [email protected], and we'll see if we can't hash something out.


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## RWE

Thunder:

I don't think the average Joe/hobbyist type of woodworker can distinguish the difference in the WS and the Brand saw. I have a very sweet 12 ppi WS panel saw that cuts as well as any crosscut saw that I own, has a nice handle with carvings and feels really good. I have seen a lot of very pedestrian looking WS saws as well. I think a pre-WWII WS is probably far better than any modern saw that you could acquire.

I have a D12 Disston that is regarded as one of the high end saws made by Disston. If you wave it around and shake it, you can feel and hear the tension that was hammered into the steel. No WS will have that refinement, but what they made back in the day can still be a very nice saw.

I have a chunky Disston USA mitre box saw that doesn't impress me much at all. So I think the age of the saw is more important in regards to the quality of the saw and how well it is sharpened. I don't think we are generally in tune enough with these saws to know that a D12 type of saw is better than a sharp WS. If you are looking at price, you generally get a better deal with a WS. I think each saw has to be evaluated on its own merit and looking at the purpose that you intend to use it for.

I have rounded out a good collection of saws and I don't have much interest in WS saws generally, but when I saw the 12 PPI, I grabbed it. I don't think I have ever seen another 12 PPI saw in the wild ever. You can get saws for $10 to $15 bucks (handsaws) at flea markets and refurb them. I am now to the point where I am only interested in the early ones. Found an 1871 split nut Disston #7 a month ago and it only cost me $10.00. Cleaned up very nicely.

So my advice would be to look at the handle of the WS. If it is nicely done and not some boxy cheap looking modern style, then consider it. The earlier saws had better workmanship on the handles. You don't have a source to help you date a WS saw, no medallion guide, so the handle is the best indicator of quality. All of this is assuming of course that you checked the saw plate for pitting, straightness etc.


----------



## Johnny7

Poa

You should've quit while you were ahead
Your repeated attempts to justify your comments aren't working.

What you said was quite plain to anyone who can read and comprehend.
You think you're an authority because persons whom you consider "wealthy" let you into their homes to do some work. Big Deal!

Your limited experience in the sixties and seventies has nothing to do with the way things were once done.

Lastly, who cares whether or not you were pissed off-get over yourself.


----------



## Poa

Hey Johnny.

You're being an [removed]. And what makes you the authority on "how things were once done"? Get over myself? Who's the [removed] that jumped in with a petty nit-picking bit of obnoxious self declared expertise? I've spent a lifetime making a life out of woodworking, I don't need to answer to your [removed]

And, my email has your pre-edit comment. You have a problem with me selling Stanley mitre box parts on ebay? Tell that to the guys whose boxes are getting repaired.

I tried to steer this into a less than an adversarial exchange. You were too large an ass to back off. So, shove it. This isn't the experience Ihat I come here for. Its all yours. Have fun.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Let's get back to civil discussion please, this is not enjoyable.


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## bandit571

The Wentworth No. 1 was at a local Antique Mall….listed as $20, bought it for $10 + tax

My Stanley 358 only had one of those bolts. Needed elsewhere. Just four drywall screws held it in place on that bench. Same with the Langdon 75 that took it's place on the bench. I had to shim one spot, though. IF I had cranked all four down flat to the benchtop, it warps the metal deck.

During that World's Longest Yard Sale trip, I almost picked a Wardsmaster mitre box….no saw, of course,and rusty….other than the name change, it was the same as my Stanley 2246….was even bolted down to a wood base…3/4" plywood. Looked like they had then screwed the plywood down to other things, a few times.


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## Thunderdome

> Thunder:
> 
> I don t think the average Joe/hobbyist type of woodworker can distinguish the difference in the WS and the Brand saw. I have a very sweet 12 ppi WS panel saw that cuts as well as any crosscut saw that I own, has a nice handle with carvings and feels really good. I have seen a lot of very pedestrian looking WS saws as well. I think a pre-WWII WS is probably far better than any modern saw that you could acquire.
> 
> I have a D12 Disston that is regarded as one of the high end saws made by Disston. If you wave it around and shake it, you can feel and hear the tension that was hammered into the steel. No WS will have that refinement, but what they made back in the day can still be a very nice saw.
> 
> I have a chunky Disston USA mitre box saw that doesn t impress me much at all. So I think the age of the saw is more important in regards to the quality of the saw and how well it is sharpened. I don t think we are generally in tune enough with these saws to know that a D12 type of saw is better than a sharp WS. If you are looking at price, you generally get a better deal with a WS. I think each saw has to be evaluated on its own merit and looking at the purpose that you intend to use it for.
> 
> I have rounded out a good collection of saws and I don t have much interest in WS saws generally, but when I saw the 12 PPI, I grabbed it. I don t think I have ever seen another 12 PPI saw in the wild ever. You can get saws for $10 to $15 bucks (handsaws) at flea markets and refurb them. I am now to the point where I am only interested in the early ones. Found an 1871 split nut Disston #7 a month ago and it only cost me $10.00. Cleaned up very nicely.
> 
> So my advice would be to look at the handle of the WS. If it is nicely done and not some boxy cheap looking modern style, then consider it. The earlier saws had better workmanship on the handles. You don t have a source to help you date a WS saw, no medallion guide, so the handle is the best indicator of quality. All of this is assuming of course that you checked the saw plate for pitting, straightness etc.
> 
> - RWE


That handle in the pic above looks like a very plain looking piece of work. Not much workmanship in that. Would you agree?


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## Poa

You're right, Smitty, its not enjoyable. Its definitely not what I come here for. And I apologize to the group for my part in it. I'll be over at the facebook vintage/antique tool pages, this has pretty well soured things for me here. Don't need it.


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## Tim457

RWE, there's lots of discussion on the saws thread about sharpening saws. Not much here maybe because this thread is specific to mitre boxes. I think some of us that sharpen our own saws don't sharpen mitre box saws because they are finer teeth and very long saws so there are a large number of them. Plus everything from jointing and shaping, to setting needs to be done right for the mitre box to function at it's best.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I'll be over at the facebook vintage/antique tool pages, this has pretty well soured things for me here.
> 
> - Poa


Do what you must, but stop by every once and again. You've made terrific contributions to our discussion of old mitre boxes!


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## Cricket

Seriously, no one wants to hear the bickering.

If it continues, I will have no choice but to start locking accounts.

Life is way too short for this…


----------



## RWE

I figured that I had strayed too far afield. It just invoked a bit of curiosity about why I saw so many mentions of sending the saw off to be sharpened. I have not explored other Lumberjocks topics. I got stuck over here when the 50 1/2 fell into my lap and have not strayed much. I have checked out the chisels thread. I struggled with poor eyesight to begin with, but the 3.0 readers got me functional for jointing, shaping and sharpening.

I sent an email to POA about the feud. I see both points of view. The problem with internet boards is that there is no personal accountability for what gets stated. In a person to person discussion, you can read moods and temper your statements based on feedback. So my wish would be for both Johnny and POA to continue to post and to put all of that behind them. Let bygones be bygones.

RWE, there's lots of discussion on the saws thread about sharpening saws. Not much here maybe because this thread is specific to mitre boxes. I think some of us that sharpen our own saws don't sharpen mitre box saws because they are finer teeth and very long saws so there are a large number of them. Plus everything from jointing and shaping, to setting needs to be done right for the mitre box to function at it's best.


----------



## RWE

That handle in the pic above looks like a very plain looking piece of work. Not much workmanship in that. Would you agree?

Thunder:

That mitre box saw in the picture above is cropped off before I can see the horns. At first glance, it looks like an older model and if the blade is straight, it might make a good user. If you are buying long distance and not able to see the saw before you decide, then that can be a problem. Sometimes you have to roll the dice. What I can see of the handle, it does look pretty basic, but mitre box saws often do not have the details in the handles that many handsaws exhibit, so they are a category unto themselves. The only hard rule that I have is avoid plywood handles. If the price is reasonable and you can get a picture of a straight toothline, you might pull the trigger and purchase it and see how it goes. There is no sin in getting a saw and then getting another one later that works better.

I live in Alabama and I never see mitre box saws or backsaws in Flea Markets or Antique Stores. The only one I ever found was the chunky Disston USA that i don't much care for, probably a 50's 60's model. I have bought several from POA and that was about the only way I could get one to fit a box that I had. I have picked up some good deals on backsaws on Ebay because I will buy one that looks too rusty or too far gone and then I repair the handle and clean and sharpen the plate. Folks in the USA in the Northeast had a lot more population density and more old tools to pick from. I can only imagine the problems of finding good choices in Australia. Too bad the shipping cost on Ebay are too high. There was a lot of handsaws on Ebay a few weeks back, all British, some back saws as well. Had me salivating, but the seller would not ship international.

Good luck.


----------



## DLK

*Stanley - Marsh 400 picture frame Miter box detent springs.*

Johhny7 asked for photos and here they are:

The detent springs are used to support the saw above the work. They look like little bullet catches protruding from the saw guide post. A slight push is all that is need to release the saw from being supported.










Here is a saw guide post removed. See the nub of the detent spring at the right.










Here is the detent spring removed from the saw guide post.


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## Poa

Hmmm…well….

Thanks for posting this info and the pics, Don. It takes effort to comply with requests for pics or info. The effort should be recognized and appreciated. And I, for one, do appreciate.

Also, I just purchased the only Greenfield I've ever seen for sale. In fact, the only Greenfield I've ever seen, period. It should arrive next week. I can find very little info on the Greenfields. They are often mentioned as a secondary line of Goodell Pratt, but details, such as model numbers, sizes, etc seem to be non-existent. The Langdon site has pics and some described details, but thats about it. If any of you have further info, links, etc., will you send them my way?


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## Poa

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/111365534511747187348/album/AF1QipPnxsRHlqxTdw22QJI_qXCuGaEnSVNrMCVQp898


----------



## DLK

> Hmmm…well….
> 
> Thanks for posting this info and the pics, Don. It takes effort to comply with requests for pics or info. The effort should be recognized and appreciated. And I, for one, do appreciate.
> 
> - Poa


Thank you.

Johnny7 also private messaged me with his appreciation. (It might have been better for his image to do so here, but nonetheless it was received.)


----------



## DLK

> Hmmm…well….
> 
> Thanks for posting this info and the pics, Don. It takes effort to comply with requests for pics or info. The effort should be recognized and appreciated. And I, for one, do appreciate.
> 
> - Poa


Thank you.

Johnny7 also private messaged me with his appreciation. (It might have been better for his image to do so here, but nonetheless it was received.) He has some unexplained difficulty getting his saw guide posts to release when held aloft with the detent springs. I suspect a good cleaning of the posts booth inside and out will fix the issue.


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## Thunderdome

Unidentified mitre box. Anyone seen anything like this one? Seller in Australia says no markings and doesn't know anything about it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Antique-Miter-Saw-Box-Vintage-Wood-Working-Tool-Tools-/302419444505?hash=item46699a8319


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think my posts aren't original / proper to the Stanley mitre I have…


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## Poa

This post is for Foundsheep. The bearing casting is on the left.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I don't have the clips Don K shows OR even the slots / holes to use them. I'll get some pics posted tonight, maybe there's enlightenment out there.


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## Poa

Also for FoundSheep. The early mounting base, seen on the left, is also something you should avoid if you want a user's box. The guide posts on the box you asked me about undoubtedly has such a base. You should look for a box that has the later guide post base, such as on the right.


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## RWE

On the Stanley/Marsh clips info. I have seen two sets of saw guides for the early Marsh models and neither set had the holes for the spring clip. I would assume that this was a feature added during the period after Stanley came into the picture.


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## FoundSheep

Thanks Poa, seeing the differences is hugely helpful.


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## Thunderdome

Hey guys, is there a preference or difference in functionality with the stanley boxes that have the 1 saw guide post front and back vs the ones with the double saw guide posts?


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## Poa

The single post Stanleys, from what I've read, were introduced to "simplify" the Stanley mitre boxes. Certainly, the double rod style guideposts, are far more complicated, with far more parts, than the single post style. However, the double rod style has two major adjustments that cannot be made on its sibling. First, by turning the guide post on its axis, you can adjust for the plate thickness of the saw. And second, you can square the.guide post to your table surface, to acheive a perfect 90° down cut. And a third advantage is the very low profile you can achieve by removing the guideposts, enhancing the box's portability.

And…uh….the double rod guideposts just…well…look cool. So there.


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## JohnMcClure

Hi all, I'm new to the thread. I picked up a miter box at a junk shop, not certain at the time exactly what it was. It has a 10tpi Warranted Superior saw. The only markings I could find on the base were "NX" and "N8". From these pictures, could any of you offer information about what model this is, what parts are missing, or if this is worth anything?
Thanks!


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## Poa

Thats a nice box. Hopefully the Langdon collectors here can identify and date it for you. Like so many old boxes, it is missing the stock rests, and the cut stop components. The stock rests are what belong in the slits in the table, and the cut stop components, I believe, used the bosses cast into the legs for mounting. I'm sure, or at least hopeful, that someone else will chime in with more knowledge than I have about non-Stanley mitre boxes.


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## JethroBodean

On the single vs double post Stanley Boxes, I would concur with all of the statements made by Poa. Including the 'Cool' factor. But I may be predigest, since I never have bought a single post box, for my tastes they are just newer than I like. Now going down a completely different road, I do really enjoy my Stanley 150s too. Not nearly as many adjustments, but still a little work horse.


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## Thunderdome

Thanks Poa and Jethro. Better understood now. I was looking at a few 358s and noticed the difference in posts. I guess that extra adjustability would be great to have if ever needed. On the 150s I've read about them and saw a few blog restorations and am won over too. Nice practicle little box. Looks simple and effective. I think the MF 110 and Craftsman 3646 are a similar design to the 150s too. So I'm on the lookout for one of these small boxes. I picked up a nice Atkins 21" mitre saw that will fit in one nicely I think.


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## Poa

Thunder…

Just as an aside, be aware that a box without bearings in the guide castings should not be a deal breaker. They still work as they should, but do cause wear to the bottom of the saw spine, and the spine openings in the guide.

But, if you watch ebay, on occassion guide post assemblies come up for sale or auction. And people such as myself offer parts, both on and off ebay. The non bearing guide castings can be exchanged for those with bearings. The dimensions are the same, with just a minor difference in hieght.


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## bandit571

Disston & Sons on the spine….Landon/Millers Falls etch ( with a star?)









4" x 26" plate….needs a little work on the handle…









Not sure why the one bolt has slid like that…

( paid $15 for it, today…) I think it might fit my Stanley #2246…..until I find the "proper" box…


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## bandit571

Hmmmm…plate was sprayed with a ClearCoat….
Haven't figured out the double hole yet….
Etch says LANGDON MITRE SAW over a "Millers Falls" in an almost triangle….with a star as it's "point"...Made in Millers Falls MASS USA….

There is a Henry Disston & Sons on the spine, and the medallion…Maybe a replacement handle?


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## theoldfart

Bandit, maybe a picture of the etch?


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## bandit571

Barely readable….will try to bring it out a bit more…..has a few "swirly" lines on either side of the triangle…


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## bandit571

See how this turns out…









Bad when I can see my reflection in the plate?









It MAY get a new handle…someday..









One more try on the etch…...









4" under the spine, 26" length…..might be for a Langdon #70?


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## theoldfart

It does look like a later MF etch.


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## Poa

Working today, so really can't get into details. But today's lunch break was gifted with the sound of the UPS truck, and two fresh pieces of american apple pie.

The only Greenfield I've ever had the opportunity to get my hands on, (11 bucks, plus 30 somethin' to ship). And a SW era Stanley No. 358, missing its stock rests, but with the correct SW etched saw.

I am more impressed with the mechanics of the Greenfield than I thought I would be, even with it missing some parts, ( I think.) And the Stanley is unlike any other SW box I've had, as it is black on black. Swingarm, frame, and guidepost mounting blocks, all black. I will be doing a scratch or two to see if it has been repainted over the usual blue, but my initial opinion is that it is the factory paint job. It is amazing too, the pristine condition of the brass tag. They usually require restoration, but not this one..


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## theoldfart

Nice score on the boxes POA. Looking forward to the restore on the Greenfield. Did the Peavey come with the boxes?


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## bandit571

In use today..









That 4" x 26" Langdon backsaw? Has no set…..will need to send it out to be fixed….I can't see the teeth that well

The 4×24 is working just fine..









Set this one up today, as I had more room over on the workbench….plank was a 7-footer….









I MIGHT look into a dust collector..someday…


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## Poa

Kevin….no, the Peavey I've had for some time now. Yeah, I am pretty jacked about the Greenfield. It does have some issues….wrong screws on the front guide, and missing the little coil springs that hold it to your plate thickness adjustment….wrong screws holding the legs on. And a guide stop whose purpose should be obvious, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. I will be posting a very detailed description and parts list when I have the time, with pics. It really is an interesting box. I was hoping that when I pulled the tables I'd find a color, but no such luck. Perhaps after the crud is removed, it will reveal an original color. The guides will take a 4"plate, down to a 3 1/2". Fun. I love this stuff.


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## Poa

Have been thinking I've got a pretty good understanding of mitre boxes, and the adjustments that make them function. I mean hey, it ain't rocket science, right? But I gotta admit, this stop has me stumped. I looked at an old ad for Greenfield mitre boxes, just a picture, really. And the stop is installed correctly, and does belong in the rear guide. The front guide does not have one. The screw and washer you see to the left of the stop is on both guides, however. That is the adjustment for guide hieght. So, the purpose of this stop evades my understanding. The small tab, at the top of the stop on the right, engages the bottom of the saw spine. Or, at its lowest setting, intrudes on the saw slit in the guide. On a higher setting, it would pinch the spine into the top of the guide. The wear on that small tab implies it has mostly had the spine riding on it. The only thing I can figure is that it is for a very minute adjustment of the saw height, to square the toothline at a 90° to the back fence. So why the extreme range of adjustment? Am I missing something? This one has me stumped, and there is such a dearth of info on these boxes, that internet searches seem to be futile.


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## RWE

The answer may be that it has the "extreme" range of adjustment because machining a shorter range of adjustment would have been harder. You would only use the range at the top, and the rest of the range is just there because that length was needed to put in the locking screw and to have it lock properly. Over engineered because of ease of manufacturing.

They had to have a reason. Just a guess.


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## DLK

> I mean hey, it ain t rocket science, right?
> - Poa


I am always amused when someone uses that expression to mean it can't be so hard. This is because to me rocket science is just calculus and hence trivial. Thus most real problems are in fact way harder than rocket science.


----------



## theoldfart

Got me Jon, your theory on the screw and washer makes sense but having the guide on one post only throws me.


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## Poa

Well, the height stops are really pretty functional, as will become apparent when I can post proper pics and descriptions of the parts. But that weird stop has me pretty perplexed as to reasoning for it.


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## Poa

A note about the Stanley boxes….

In tearing down a No. 360 today, I noted something I have ran into on prior restorations. Sometimes the raw casting' s back fence is not at a 90° to the frame's table surface. The assembler, obviously, was tasked to check this angle, and shim accordingly with small pieces of paper. When a "new" box is purchased, this angle should be checked, and adjusted accordingly. If this angle is no at a 90°, all your angle cuts will be slight compounds. Of course, it wouldn't affect your 90°crosscuts, except if cutting tenons, datos, or rabbet shoulder cuts.


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## paulm12

Thanks POA. I have a few MF/Langdon boxes, and have never seen a shim on those, but I did fix up one Stanley that I swore had a piece of paper fly out when I took apart. At the time I wasn't sure if it was just a piece of paper that got caught somewhere in the box (it was real dirty) or a purposeful shim.


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## Poa

I'm in the market for a later issue MF etched 6" x 30" mitre box saw, for a 306C I just purchased. Please keep me in mind if anyone runs across one.


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## Poa

Latest resto nears completion. Couldn't bring myself to putting that gawdawful gray on it, so went with black. Need to make a table for it today, and refinish the saw handle.


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## BlasterStumps

Mr. "J" , that's going to be a beauty for sure. Nicely done. I saw a MF box and saw advertized on CL I think. Anyway, couldn't help but think of you but doubt you would have been interested at $150 : ( It was all in good nick though. Out of my league for sure. 
Mike


> Latest resto nears completion. Couldn t bring myself to putting that gawdawful gray on it, so went with black. Need to make a table for it today, and refinish the saw handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


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## Poa

Might be gettin' a little overloaded here. Anyone need a box? Know someone that needs a box? Know someone who knows someone that needs a box? Have a connection in Santa's workshop?


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## Thunderdome

> Might be gettin a little overloaded here. Anyone need a box? Know someone that needs a box? Know someone who knows someone that needs a box? Have a connection in Santa s workshop?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


Yeah me!. I've been waiting for you to find me a nice cheap one that you can send to Australia. Come on mate. You can find them so cheap there in the US


----------



## FoundSheep

> Might be gettin a little overloaded here. Anyone need a box? Know someone that needs a box? Know someone who knows someone that needs a box? Have a connection in Santa s workshop?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


Definitely Jon! Did the 358 you picked up give much trouble? I'm excited to see the work!


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## Poa

The later issue 358 is still in the process of being restored. The Sweetheart 358 is pretty much finished, but is missing the stock rests. I am waiting to hear back from a guy today that may have some stock rests. As soon as these boxes are done, I'll get back to you guys.

Thunder….trying to figure out how the cheapest way to ship to Australia.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful pic, Poa! Wish I could handle another, but seven is all I can do.


----------



## DLK

Jon, let me know if you have any left over MF-L 74C parts.


----------



## Poa

Don….have absolutely zero MF parts.

Just got another GP No. 1004 donor box though. Funny how I've been running into 6" GPs lately. This one came with a 6" x 30" Atkins. Both the saw handle and the bottom of the swingarm are stamped with the same name, so I know this saw was mated to the box. Musta seen quite a bit of use, as the plate actually measures 5 1/2" under the spine.


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## bandit571

Beginning to like this way of cutting tenon shoulders….









Then stand the part on edge, and do the cheek cuts at the bandsaw….


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## RWE

I tried cutting tenon shoulders on the mitre box and think it beats every method I have tried.

I get cutting cheeks using the bandsaw technique, but have you ever tried the Paul Seller's chisel technique? It actually goes fairly fast and can be extremely accurate with the knife wall on the sides as your guide for your chisel work. I realize the Seller's did not invent the technique, but he has good demonstrations of it on Youtube. I am putting together two Shaker side tables with a skirt that will be mortised to the legs and I am going to try the chisel approach. If I had production in mind, no doubt the bandsaw would be the best. I did a test run cutting mortise and tenons using the mitre box and then sawing the cheeks on some and using the chisel technique on others. I like the results of the chisel work very well. I spent a lot of time acquiring backsaws to cut cheeks and in one brief Youtube moment, rendered all that refurb work moot.

Paul Seller's Slitting cheeks on tenons with chisel


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## Poa

I don't understand the partly unplugged, partly plugged in, logic. If you are going to flip a switch on your bandsaw, why not just flip a switch and cut your tenons on a table saw?


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## bandit571

Whut's a tablesaw?


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## Poa

LOL…


----------



## RWE

Table Saw by Summerfi


----------



## JethroBodean

But where is this switch to be flipped???!


----------



## Poa

Actually, I'm not being facetious, or trying to pick a fight. I'm truly curious. When I'm doing plugged in woodwork, I can cut a bunch of tenons on the table saw, they will all be exactly as required, identical, and if you can't do a dozen in 30 minutes, you're doing something wrong. So, either the idea is to do things the old way, unplugged, for the satisfaction. Or, the idea is to get the tenons knocked out so your project advances quickly, accurately, and efficiently. So if the idea is the former, why bandsaw? And if the later, why use an old mitre box? I am not being judgemental or critical. We each have our own ways of doing things. I'm just curious about the mindset that is half unplugged, and half plugged in. The Sellers chisel technique is pretty much "woodworking 101", in respect to being cognizant of grain direction, and the importance of sharp tools. And, mastered, is fairly quick, as far as "unplugged" goes.

In composing this comment, in the back of my mind, I was pondering the impact of complete power loss in a shop trying to stay in production. The one thing I do not ever see mentioned in conversations about working unplugged is probably one of the most important aspects of a production shop trying to produce product while completely unplugged. Anyone wanna venture a guess what that aspect is? The answer is one word.


----------



## BlasterStumps

...safety?


----------



## Poa

No, although the answer is directly related.


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## RWE

I have been plugged in for thirty to forty years. I had jigs and power tools. Setup, cut, setup, cut. Jig, jig, jig. I enjoyed all of that. I have/had mortising jigs, tenoning jigs, joiner jigs, various table saw sleds etc. etc.

I had a friend that started channeling me green bandsawn lumber. Take that curled and warped air-dried board and try to power it flat!! That made me discover hand planes. Hand planes made me discover flea markets. Flea markets made me discover saws, then chisels, then braces and augur bits, then *mitre boxes* and so on and so on.

So if you are in the shop and you want to complete a project, you use what you have. That is why you use a bandsaw because you like it and it works.

I cut tenon shoulders on the table saw until I got the mitre box. Now I want to use the mitre box because it is there, like Mount Everest. I do believe that you avoid some of the splintering that you get on a table saw. Dry and somewhat brittle cherry comes to mind. You set up the mitre box with stops and get the depth set and I believe that you could come close to competing with that table saw, and it is more fun.

I like the history of handtools and I am pursuing unplugged just now. It is fun to pick up a 1917-1928 American made handsaw and make a cut as opposed to Chinese made power tool.

Reading the grain to chisel away the tenon cheek may be 101, but I had never seen it discussed or used or mentioned in any literature or magazine before I saw it a month or so back.

So my mantra is "Do you want to work wood, or do you want to machine wood". If I am a professional, I would machine wood. I am a hobbyist and right now working wood and refurbing old tools (including mitre boxes) is what has my attention.

I have spent two years of my "free time" getting to the point where I have the necessary hand tools to be able to do certain tasks (not sure that 20 plus handsaws and 15 plus planes are necessary, but you understand). So other than using my joiner (once I have planed a surface flat) I am trying my new inventory of hand tools. I also plan to use my lathe to turn some socket chisel handles.

In a couple of years, I may be back to jigs and power. It does not matter really.

If you lost power in your shop I would have four words: Good light, sharp handtools


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## Poa

RWE….great answer! And, I understand your passion, and share it to a degree. There is a very obvious line between how I make a living, and why I spend as much time as I do restoring and using old hand tools.

And you definitely hit on what my main concern would be in a shop with no electricity; LIGHTING.


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## RWE

Ok, you have my address, send me an interesting handsaw as my prize for winning the contest. LOL


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## Poa

First, I'd hafta figure out what an un-interesting saw is!


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## bandit571

Well…when I only need four tenons made….


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## DanKrager

I've become a hybrid shop for several reasons, one of which is mentioned above about "discovering" vintage tools. Another reason is that being a purely custom shop there is very seldom a "production" run or even a sizeable batch. Hand tools have become my go to for onesies and twosies because with practiced skill they are very quick and accurate not to mention quiet and largely dustless. I've been fortunate to have the space and resources for a "complete" hybrid, i.e.almost any given operation can be done with a machine or by hand. Sometimes that is a disadvantage because of choosing which setup to use. (I don't have an un-powered lathe…) My mantra is "making your heirlooms of the future" so it often seems appropriate to use the older techniques.

DanK


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## Poa

Bandit…makes sense.

Dan….just as a point of conversation, I wonder what options we would utilize if we had to go to unplugged lighting? Obviously, the shops of yesteryear had lighting solutions. In my inventory of old tools, I cannot think of an operation, task, or piece of furniture or cabinetry that I could not build, except maybe extensive large filligree work, because I do not have a pedal scroll saw. However, I would be screwed in the lighting department. The oil lamps I keep in the house for power outages would be entirely insufficient. I wonder how this problem was solved in days of yore.


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## bandit571

Candles…LOTS of candles….and LOTS of windows. Open the barn doors all the way.


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## Poa

I don't know, Bandit. Would ya really want alot of unshielded open flames in a woodshop?? I heated a small garage woodshop in Idaho with a wood stove, and was on pins and needles doing it. And having the doors open, a good part of the year, was out of the question.

I've strayed from a discussion about mitre boxes, and I apologize. However, I find it to be an interesting conversation. If its ok, I hope a few others will comment on the issue of unplugged lighting. Like many people hoarding guns, my accumulation of unplugged woodworking tools has to do, slightly, with an unwanted, but possible future. And lighting is an issue I would like to have covered.

And…..in the context of "future"...

I wonder how many shops and finish carpenters, right now, in Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands are pondering this very question.


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## bandit571

You MIGHT want to ask a fellow LJ, named Ron Aylor…..as to how he lights his shop…..


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## RWE

Like many people hoarding guns, my accumulation of unplugged woodworking tools has to do, slightly, with an unwanted, but possible future. And lighting is an issue I would like to have covered.

When the Zombie Apocalypse comes light your shop with Solar Panels. No problem with flames/fires. I have never tried to use solar so far. However, it does looks to be more and more common and affordable. I would have solar panels connected to LED grids and backup with kerosene lamps.

I have no windows in my shop and I get very put out every time I read one of those shop layout articles that tell you to put your workbench in front of big window!! Hard to do that with no windows. But if you do have a window, put your bench there.

Even the articles on how to layout a small shop still start with double the space that I have. Shop layout is overrated. Eat less, and be sure to turn sideways as you squeeze between your rows of tools.

Having said all of that, my shop does have heating and air conditioning. Give some, get some.


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## knockknock

Unplugged lighting does not need to be as good. First there is no need for reading tiny scales for measurements, as only a few coarse initial measurements for size are needed. Second exacting handwork is done more by feel than sight (sight gets you in the ballpark, feel gets you the exactness).


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## Poa

Knocknock…....seems to me 1" is 1", and the only way to measure it is in the light.


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## GlenintheNorth

It has always been evident in my dingy garage shop that the #1 greatest invention of the entire industrial revolution has been…the light bulb.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sawing the lines of half blind dovetails calls for good lighting, I know that. Especially when you're over 40.


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## theoldfart

2x as much when you pass 65 ;-)
come to think of it i'll be doing half blinds for the next few days!


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## DanKrager

Duh, why do you think they call them half blinds? If you cut them at night without lights are they "full blinds"?

In my home town there was a woodworker who was blind from birth. There is nothing spookier than going to his house after supper to visit his basement wood shop and when you go in you hear the table saw cutting wood, and his wife reminds you to turn the light on when you go in so you don't stumble over something! I have a miniature outhouse that he resawed boards to 1/8" on his table saw and you still see the saw marks. It's a two holer with latching door on wooden hinges. I also have a turned plate and a little sign with "absent" letters so that when you first look at it, it looks like Greek or something, but the absent spaces spell "Jesus". I should get some pictures.

So…lighting is optional.
DanK

DanK


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## knockknock

You got me on the half blind dovetails.


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## bandit571

Random Mitre Box Picture….









Folds up to reside in a tool box…









Works with about any backsaw….









Labels?









GEM Mitre Box….


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## Poa

A question for those of you familiar with the Pratt All Steels….

I'm cleaning up an incomplete No. 1004 that I bought mainly for parts. Much to my suprise, after removing the grime and patina of age, I am finding green paint, with no black underneath it. Has anyone here ever seen a green All Steel? I am curious if perhaps it is a super early example. The green looks very much like the Langdon green. It is definitely an early one, just no way of telling how early. Riveted construction, wood tables, and the flat dato style stock rest blocks, rather than the V style. The green has me baffled.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

If it's old, Kevin's gonna want it. Bad.

I only had one all steel, and it was a 50s/60s era with red deck.


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## JethroBodean

I've got a couple of green GPs. Off the top of my head, I would say they are both flat bottomed stock guides. I'll try to remember to take a look tonight. What is the Patent Dates on the top of the Saw Guides?


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## Poa

Smitty…I have already "talked" to Kevin about it. He's never seen a green one either. And, the ONLY difference this one has to the other wood table one I've had is the color. I'm pretty sure Kevin has all the All Steel boxes he wants. Although if this one had features unique, other than simply color….

BTW, still tripping ovet a large cardboard box with your name and address on it. Perhaps I should open it, and revisit dismantling its contents, and getting the shipping cost down. Whataya think?


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## Poa

Jethro…Feb. 9 1904


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## Poa

Also…Jethro. If I repaint this one in green, is John Deere green too "forest"?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd prefer not be part of any tripping hazard, Poa. I don't know where the elasticity is in weight vs. cubic feet, but if it can be lowered, it'd be awesome to complete the deal. And there an actual street address vs. PO Box that I can provide.


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## JethroBodean

Poa - That looks to me like it is the Patent Date of the original 'All Steel' as we know it. I would concur with your assumption that it is an early one. But on the other hand, every single saw guide I've cleaned up (before Millers Falls buy out) has had that date. I would give it an 'older' staus based more on the flat bottomed stock guides and the wooden decks.


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## Poa

Well…Jethro…at some point obviously GP switched to painting them black. The other GP I had a while back with the dato style stock rest blocks was black, with metal tables, that attached with the bent wire ties.. Also, I have one I just derusted prior to this green one, that is riveted construction, with metal tables that attach with machine screws. It too was black. (It is missing its stock rest blocks). So, logic tells me…1st generation…green w/wood tables. 2nd generation, black w/metal tables attached with machine screws. 3rd generation, black w/metal tables attached with bent wire.

But theres a hitch. Currently there is an All Steel on ebay that has a lever, on the bottom of the swingarm, rather than the pull rod, for locking the arm between indents. I need to look for it again, to see whether it has wood tables, or metal. If wood, I would say that is a super early All Steel. Perhaps one of the first.


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## JethroBodean

Unlike you with the Stanley's, I have not attempted (my failing) to figure out age based on features (or lack of features). But generally speaking, flat bottom older that 'V' stock guides, Wooden decks older than metal decks. The bright red metal decks are all after Millers Falls by my experience. The biggest single variant on the GP boxes (at least in my mind) is the Swing Release, I've seen Push/pull rods, Metal 'Wings' and rods through the head of the tightening bolt. I've thought/suspected that the push/pull rod was more of a 'deluxe feature' rather than specific date range, but I'm guessing. I should also mention that I've seen several variations on the push/pull rod itself.

Ok, Here is are pictures (that I just happen it have with me here at work) of one of mine that I think is older with green paint, wooden decks and flat bottom stock guides.


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## theoldfart

Taking a break and watching this conversation. Jethro's looks to be the oldest style with the short lever and flat bottom side guides. This is the first time I've seen the green on the All Steels. I did read somewhere that the steel deck plates were initially an option. The flat bottom guides can be seen on the 1904 patent drawings, the v bottom was on the 1924 patent drawings. Check out Brad Chittim's web site


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## Poa

Interesting conversation. And, looking at the pics of the green, it occurs to me that John Deere green may not have enough blue in it to match.


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## theoldfart

BTW, i am still looking for a 4" AllSteel (1002, 1244, 1264), preferably circa 1926 to 1938 with the "V" style brackets.


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## Poa

I'm inclined to think the boxes with the levering rod through the tensioning stud, rather than the ones with the pull rod, are the earliest examples. I found the one on ebay that has the lever rod/tensioning stud configuration, and I note that the trip lever is also shaped different than the trip levers with the pull rod. Its hard for me to imagine these differences are "options", considering the logistics of explaining those options in any coherent advertising attempt. All the All Steel ads I can find online certainly do not mention standard versus delux models.


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## JethroBodean

@theoldfart - I've got one, but you can't have it! ;-) It actually has the wrong saw guides, sometime in it's history someone swapped the GP saw guides for Langdon Saw Guides, so my hunt is for 4" GP Saw Guides.


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## Poa

Yes, and I am still seeking seeking a number of the washers with the retangular boss, that go under the saw hieght stops. Whats the proper name for these stops? Elevators?


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## JethroBodean

According to a millers falls setup guide those are called Depth Gage. This setup Guide gives a lot of great information about proper setup and use of a miter box in general as well as specifics for the Millers Falls boxes, including the All-Steel.


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## theoldfart

Jeff, I don't see the 4" boxes very much so I understand the protracted search.

Jon, if you think finding those is hard try looking for the depth gauge stops for a 15 1/2.


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## Poa

Kevin…theres a guy posting right now on facebook that has an incomplete 15 1/2….perhaps he has them….

https://m.facebook.com/groups/626261560835387?view=permalink&id=1339733466154856&comment_id=1339993399462196&notif_t=group_comment_reply&notif_id=1506305080131652&ref=m_notif


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## JethroBodean

Kevin - You just gave me a good laugh (at your expense). Above you say "This is the first time I've seen the green on the All Steels.". But then you go on to recommend we "Check out Brad Chittim's web site"; so I did that very thing. Well I'll be damned if the picture he's using to illustrate a flat bottomed stock guide isn't showing a box with green paint! ;-)


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## theoldfart

yea, realized it afterwords it appears memory is not my strong suit ;-)

The guides on that one are the wrong ones, the 15 1/2 guides are elaborate attaching to both the elevator post and guide column.


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## theoldfart

I now give you proof of my senility, I have a 16 1/2 NOT a 15 1/2! I need a drink (or two).


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## JethroBodean

I'd gladly join you for "or Two" It turns out the 4" All Steel I bragged about, does not have the 'V's as I was remembering but rather the "flats". On the up side it did come with both guides. I trust that someday, two 4" GP saw guides will come my way.


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## Poa

Senility??? Who said anything about senility? And, yes, Kevin, I do know where you can get a set of valve covers for your 390.


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## theoldfart

What about for a 421?


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## Poa

Thats a Pontiac. And I don't believe the totes on those were rosewood.


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## theoldfart

Maybe so but mine had a transaxle and faux wood and it was red! hah!


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## Poa

Hmmm…interesting, so did mine, and it was red too. Your's, perchance, wasn't a '62 Bonnie, was it?


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## theoldfart

'63 Tempest LeMans, same one as the movie My Cousin Vinnie!

Next car was a '64 two door Gran Prix with, I think a 389. Could that thing haul!


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## Thunderdome

This is not a GP but a rare langdon with a green back and monster saw. Looks like patent date is 1864. Thought it might interest you enthusiasts. Certainly is a rare one I think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Langdon-Mitre-Box-with-Disston-Saw-Miter-Northampton-/222566661603?hash=item33d201bde3:g:6-4AAOSwiO9Xi~5i


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## theoldfart

He stared out with a price of $5,000.00, but there are issues with the box.


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## Poa

Kevin and I have been watching that unique Langdon for some time now. And the price keeps coming down. There are welded breaks, and a busted leg, jury rigged. It'd be nice to have it, but if given the choice between a sound 15 1/2, or 16 1/2, complete, I'd jump on the small box over that behemoth. And pay less.


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## Poa

Well….I dunno about this green box idea. Maybe it'll grow on me…but uhhh…


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## bandit571

Better than what Sears used to put on theirs…..


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## Poa

Eureka! One of the things I've fought, when restoring the Goodell Pratt All Steels, is getting the adjustment right on the pull rod/tensioning stud for locking the swingarm between indents. Virtually every one of them that I have restored, I've had to fight with that adjustment. The problem is that the resistance caused by so many friction points, makes the pull rod action extremely stiff. You have the friction of the rod going through its guides, the friction of the barrel nut on the arm moving within its slot, and the friction of the boss on the stud pivoting against the bottom of the swingarm. Add the energy needed to actually tension (bend) the bridge against the quadrant to lock the arm, and you end up with an adjustment nightmare.

Last night, I fought the danged thing for over an hour on the green No. 1004, and never did get it right. It just took too much effort to pull the rod and get it to lock. So, this morning, I stared at it, and arrived at a solution. First, I had the threaded barrel nuts, that the rod passes through, threaded too far into the swingarm. Threading those outwards from the arm maximizes the leverage that pulling on the rod exerts on the arm. Also, it loosens them up so that they self align with the pull rod, reducing the friction of the rod passing through them.

But the most beneficial solution was placing a washer between the swingarm and the collar on the stud, lightly greased top and bottom.. This reduced the friction of the collar riding directly on the bottom of the swingarm, and provided a "bearing" of sorts, greatly reducing the effort required to pull the rod and tension the bridge.

Next, removing the paint on the top of the quadrant and frame was beneficial, because the bridge could freely swing closer to the quadrant, requiring less flex on the bridge when locking the arm.

Bingo. Fixed.


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## theoldfart

^ great tip Jon. Gonna retro fit both of mine. They're both a bear to loosen.


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## Poa

Kevin…please let me know how it works out for you. I had to try a couple of different washers, because if the washer is too thick it mis-aligns the pull rod, as far as elevation, with the arm's barrel nut.


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## Poa

Clarification….

The actual term for what I call the "bridge" is "gib".

The actual term for what I call the "tensioning stud" is "binding screw".


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## Poa

Hey Kevin…curious if you've tried putting the washer on your binding screw yet on one of your GPs. If so, did it work for you?


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## theoldfart

Not yet, doing exterior work on the house before it gets cold. We want it on the market by early spring.


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## Poa

A week or so ago I ran across a dynamite price on an ebay listing for a Pratt 5" box. I purchased it for cheaper than you can ship one, and ended up throwing a few more bucks at the seller because it was the right thing to do. Well, it arrived today, and, is probably the nicest Pratt box I've bought yet. It is a 5" box, and has a 5" x 28" Disston with a "Made Expressly for Goodell Manufacturing" etch. It appears to be a fairly early "All Steel", as the metal tables are attached with screws, (rather than the bent wire clips that were used on the later All Steels), and, the traces of paint are green, rather than the later black. The swingarm swings well, and locks well in the indents. However, the locking mechanism for between indents is out of adjustment, and doesn't lock the arm. This box is the first Pratt box I have ever found that is 100% complete. The closest I've come is the No. 1004 I posted about a few weeks ago, that is missing a washer on the guide posts, that goes under one of the the saw hieght stops. The box and saw are filthy dirty with a heavy coat of oily film that I assume was a major reason for the lack of rust on the box and saw plate. All in all a very good score, and it'll be a pleasure to clean it up and pass it on to someone that will return it to service.


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## Poa

GREEN. Does anyone have a Langdon or Pratt box that has a good patch of remaining green paint on it? The more I look at the No. 1004 I painted, the more I'm thinking I have the color wrong. I'm thinking, if anyone has a good color sample, perhaps, the next time they are in H. Depot, or such, they might be willing to pick up a paint color chart, and mail me a color chip that matches the original Langdon green. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but I thought I'd give it a shot. The green I put on the 1004 just seems too bright somehow. It matches some small patches that were on the box, but I think age had changed the color quality.


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## theoldfart

I can do that Jon. I don't have any All Steels in green but I do have a Northampton Langdon and a Millers Falls Langdon.


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## Poa

Dynamite Kevin. No hurry, I won't be working on the 5" box for awhile. I'll pm you my address over on Don's site.


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## Poa

Heres a new discovery about the later issue Pratt All Steels. I'm amazed I've never noticed this. Yesterday, surfing the net for Goodell Pratt mitre box advertisments, I found an add for a later GP all steel that touted the framing scale marked on the quadrant. So, I went and looked at my restored 6" box, the No. 1004, and sure 'nuf, there it is. It explains why they narrowed that forward frame piece, so that the quadrant stands at a higher elevation. How I missed this in the restoration process is beyond me. Musta done it with my eyes closed.


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## bandit571

Sears used THIS colour of green on their branded hand tools back in the 50s…..almost a Zinc Chromate…?

Maybe Pratt made a few for Sears? Mitre Boxes, that is…


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## Poa

Thanks Bandit. Trouble is, the color is really different in an online pic than it is when you're holding a part in your hand. Kevin has agreed to send me a Langdon part that has a good example of the green remaining.

A bit about small boxes. I have managed to purchase a frame and swingarm for a solid unbroken Langdon No. 16 1/2, on ebay. Subsequently, I have purchased a complete No. 16 1/2, with a broken frame and welded swingarm, from a facebook friend. Between the two, I will be able to put together a complete and solid No. 16 1/2. Will still need a saw for it, however. (2" x 16", preferably a Simonds).

Pondering the rarity of the 16 1/2s, I had an epiphany of sorts. It occurred to me that I have never seen a Stanley No. 240, for sale, in the wild, or even a picture of one. I thought I had a line on one once, but it didn't gel, and was only a rumor I was pursuing. Do any of you have a 240? Ever seen a 240?? Apparently, they may actually be more rare than the small Langdons.


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## Poa

This is like MAJOR cool. A guy on another thread linked to a 1910 advertisement for a Greenfield. Seeing as how I just this morning got started on the Greenfield resto, it will make this resto a bit more complete than it woulda been otherwise. The advertisement describes the Greenfields as having "emory tables" and "rawhide in the gib" (to avoid bottoming your saw out on metal). Also, under the grime on this Greenfield, I'm finding the Langdon Green.


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## Poa

Just found the patent for the Greenfield. Also, finding traces of silver paint on the back fence and the guides. I think the frame, swingarm, and legs were green, and the back fence and guides were silver.

https://www.google.com/patents/US978576


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm loving the updates, Poa. Excited that box found you!


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## onoitsmatt

I accidentally hijacked the Planes thread with photos of some rare planes I saw at an auction that ran up too high in price for me, but I picked up this miter box instead. Kevin pointed out that it is a Millers Falls 15 1/2 (I thought it was a 16 1/2). Strange I was the only bidder given how high the planes went. But was a good find for $10 + fees.










It's pretty grungy, but hopefully will clean up nice. Has a broken foot but otherwise looks complete. Saw looks original and has about 2" of plate under the spine.


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## theoldfart

Lets see how long it takes POA to see this^


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## onoitsmatt

To be clear… it was $13.10 after tax and fees. Seriously 31% in fees. Highway robbery.


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## theoldfart

Give it back. Then again give it to one of us!


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## Poa

You paid way too much for that 15 1/2. But all is not lost, I'll give ya 20 bucks for it!

Seriously, I saw it, but you could only bid on a desk top. I do all my internet stuff on an Android. I have two extra legs for a 16 1/2. Measure your busted leg, and we'll see if they're the same size.

Also, if you want an excellent user box, restored, I have Stanleys and GPs. 4, 5, and 6 inchers in the Stanleys, and 5 and 6 inchers in the GPs. Also, a 6" later Millers Falls. Have correct saws for all of them. If you wanna do some trading for the 15 1/2, holler. Might even throw in a plane or two. Siegley combos? Stanley 45s? Nice Type 11 5-1/2? A complete Stanley No. 289? My left nut? Uh, how 'bout my first born and my dog?


----------



## Poa

Btw…..I need a 2" × 16" for my 16 1/2. If your saw is 2", does the set in the teeth get into the set openings on the guides just barely, or is there plenty of clearance? On the 16 1/2, it will only take a saw plate between 2 1/4" and 1 5/8".

And I am serious about a barter. I've got some pretty damned nice user boxes. And buku planes.


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## onoitsmatt

Hi Poa. I'm set on mitre boxes and am currently more in purge mode that gather mode. Send me a pm. There's always something I think I need.

The saw is a little over 2" at the toe and 2 1/4" or so at the heel. There's still about 1/4" clearance in the guides before the saw plate will be too short.


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Do you suppose the PO swore it didn't work because the saw kept pushing the stock off the bed? Haha!

Seriously, that's a stupid good deal on that. Well deserved of the "You Suck!" award!


----------



## GlenintheNorth

Working on a 74 restore, not sure of date. First production after MF 1906 buyout, before triangle logo was registered in 1921.

Odd…these bed plates were not painted. They were nickeled. There are traces that remain…but it looks like they were not copper plated first so the nickel didn't stick for crap!

But the box is complete now and the saw is close enough to period. It was a post '18 handle, 1921 trademark decal, '96-'17 medallion. Close enough 

Couple of test cuts there. Can't say I'm displeased.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good, especially with the MF bench dog.


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## Poa

Does look good. Man, I'm scared to death of getting an early MF, lest I get another thing to jones after. I've got a later issue MF, and I haven't touched it yet, for fear I'll like the damned thing.


----------



## Mosquito

> Btw…..I need a 2" × 16" for my 16 1/2. If your saw is 2", does the set in the teeth get into the set openings on the guides just barely, or is there plenty of clearance? On the 16 1/2, it will only take a saw plate between 2 1/4" and 1 5/8".
> 
> - Poa


Me too lol


----------



## Poa

I just picked up another Stanley No. 358 at an antique mall. No saw. But once again, the details on a single Stanley box convince me that typing these may well be impossible. This one has a brass ID plate on the end, but held on by screws, rather than rivets, which is a first. It also has the 4 casting dates cast onto the quadrant. Also, it has non-bearing guides, and the legs do not have the holes for the cut stop components. Instead, it has the round metal threaded disc, set into the table, that accepts the stock rest and thumbscrew as a cut stop. If this box did not have an ID plate, I would be fairly positive it was a No. 2 frame. And I'd be wrong. Not sure I know anything more about dating these than when I first started. The evolution of the guide posts pretty much tell us which came first, the chicken or the egg, but the dates, and frame evolution, seem to really muddy the waters as far as dating goes. About the best I can offer on this box is it seems to be an early no. 3 frame. The ads and catalogue listings are unhelpful, because the pictures and dates in the ads demonstrate that Stanley often used outdated artist's renderings in its advertising efforts. Plus, I have not taken the degree of notes I should be taking as I work with each individual box. Thats changing now. I will never get a handle on these unless I am studious in my note taking. Perhaps my garden and household upkeep would appreciate the same degree of attention.


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## GlenintheNorth

Poa: yessss yuuu arrrrre gettinggg verrryy sssssleeppyyyy….Lang-don! Lang-don! Langdon! I have a CMan branded 74C that's complete down to the shipped saw. Works great. I like the older ones though just because they look cool. Accuracy can be insane on them so all's good. Just gotta remember to have the king pin tensioned right and the little set screw (on top or side depending on vintage) cranked well enough to lock it.

Kev: I hated the MF dog at install time. Note: measure that thing and use the EXPANSIVE bit to bore the holes. They are NOT 1" and 2" as started in catalog copy. I bored the 2", worked great, flipped to a 1" auger for the main shaft's through hole and that thing wouldn't have pounded in with a 5lb hammer. Spent half an hour reaming the hole to fit with a rattail file … >:[

Once in, the thing works well. I don't like having to keep a screwdriver at hand every time I want to adjust it or put it away and it is a major pain to switch "tips" due to the design. Once it's in it's in, but getting there.. Sheesh.


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## Poa

Unlike my other mitre boxes, this Langdon No.16-1/2 will not be restored to like new. Frankly, I think it would ruin the box, rather than enhance it. I took it apart completely, squirted it down with WD-40, then fine steel wooled all the components, occassionally using a brass wire brush for areas that had rust build up. The wood tables were given a heavy coat of paste wax, top and bottom. And thats all I'm going to do to it. Of interest, the knob on the indent plunger is brass. But on the parts box I have, with the busted frame and welded swingarm, that knob is steel. (Maybe a later issue? War time?) Also, at some time or the other, a previous owner repaired the front edge of the right hand wood table. The rough surface on my Greenfield tables, and the tables on this Langdon, do not appear to be sheet goods, such as sandpaper glued down to the wood. The surface seems more like a painted on rough surface, much like a non-skid paint for boat decks. However, on the Greenfield restoration, I think I will glue down 100 grit wet and dry.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks excellent Jon and I agree with the level of clean up.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Ditto.


----------



## theoldfart

Caution, Langdons at work!


















Newly sharpened saws can be fun.


----------



## Poa

Are you doing your own sharpening, Kevin?


----------



## theoldfart

Not by a long shot Jon. Bob Summerfield did four of 'em for me.


----------



## JoeRPhilly

Question for the all steel owners - does anyone know of a way to adjust the vertical? It seems mine is off a couple of degrees from vertical and can't see or figure any way to fix that. Any ideas?


----------



## Poa

To my knowledge, you can't fix the vertical on an All Steel. Thats one of the reasons I'm partial to the Stanleys with the double rod style of guide posts. You can adjust every angle of cut with them.

Does it look like your swingarm has been bent? When you have a saw in it, try putting a small square on the table, and against the saw plate. Check it at the front of the table, and at the rear, near the fence. I'm curious if both posts are out of vertical square with the table, or just one.


----------



## theoldfart

If it is the front post, you may be able to shim it to get back to vertical.


----------



## JethroBodean

I agree with Poa, that as far as I know there are no adjustments. However there are two things I would check out.

Make sure that the bed is truly level to the box. My very first box was a 6" All-Steel given to me by an uncle. I could never get clean accurate cuts, so it sat for 10 years or more. Then one day I took the bed off and discovered that it had not been sitting flat against the frame AND, being plywood, it had popped and separated in a couple of places. New bed board resulted in clean accurate cuts.

The next thing to try is to take off the swing arm and clean up the area where the frame and swing arm meet to make sure that they are meeting up cleanly (and flat).

The one other strange thing I once found was that someone had put a 1.25" thick board on as the bed, however over time the board had warped and was twisting the frame out of shape. Once I changed the bed to a more appropriate board the thing cut beautifully.

Good Luck.


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## JoeRPhilly

Thanks for the responses fellas, I will take your suggestions and see what I find


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## dtraster

Just found this thread. . . I'm excited. I have a Goodell all steel in pieces on the kitchen counter (She was out with her girl friends last night!)

Dating a Goodell Miter Box (by that I mean determining the date of manufacture):

For what it's worth, there's an ad in the July 1915 issue of "The National Builder" for a Goodell Mitre Box that includes the following text: "New STEEL BOTTOM PLATES with ANGULAR SERRATURES to prevent the work from slipping and many other features." Similar ad in the August 2014 edition and in the September 1914 issue of "The Building Age."

November 1913 and February 2014 ads for the Goodell Mitre Box in "American Carpenter and Builder" do not mention the "New STEEL BOTTOM PLATES."

"Honest, honey, I found it in the trash!" reminds me of "My biggest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell my tools for what I told her I paid for them."


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## theoldfart

Be careful, those Langdons multiply like rabbits.
First one









Then two more









Incredibly the All steels behave the same way.









Oh yea, sometimes the Stanleys do it as well


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## Poa

They are indiscriminate in their mating habits. You have to be very careful, or they start cross breeding.


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## bandit571

Stopped at a place on the way home from taking the Boss shopping…picked a late model 4" x 24" mitre saw….ugly phillips headed bolts will just have to leave. But, for $5? We can make it better…..


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## theoldfart

Bandit don't forget the pics!


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## bandit571

Remember, you asked for it..









As it came home, wiped down with brush cleaner and steel wool, to cut back on the rustiness,,,









Going to reshape this blister-maker of a handle, and throw away these bolts…..









4" under the spine, 24" plate length, 22" tooth line. Did not find a mitre box that would fit with it…..


----------



## theoldfart

You've got your work cut out for you!


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## bandit571

Give me a few days, we'll see what happens…..more or less a "spare" for the Stanley 2246, in case the normal saw is out for a sharpening…..always nice to have a "back-up".....


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## RWE

If the plate is good and straight, you might consider replacing the handle with your own hand made copy. Blackburn and other sites have plenty of handle templates. I did that with a similar old Craftsman saw.

The handle is Magnolia. I also cut it back to make a smaller Tenon saw. Make the miter saw a smaller saw of some type that is useful to you.



















All you ever see is your mistakes when you do something and I die everytime I see that the plate and the handle do not look lined up where they join.


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## Poa

Bandit….Stanley made a No. 244 too, that was designed to be used with a 4" x 24" saw. In fact, I have an old frame and swingarm for a 244. Its the early vintage that does not have the tapered guide post mounting blocks. They also made a No. 240, which I would love to find an example of. I really.like the small boxes. But I have never seen a No. 240, for sale, or in the wild. I imagine, eventually I will run across one, but it hasn't happened yet.


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## bandit571

In this shop..it is K.I.S.S. Got rid of the nasty bolts..









Carriage bolts? #3 Phillips? Not..









And the other side..









OK, that out of the way, time to soften those sharp corners…









And the other side..









Sanders, spokeshave, rasp, and a piece of glass…..cleaned the rust off the plate…scraped most, sanded the rest….added the handle and bolts, and a wipe on coat of amber shellac..









Best way I know to hold things while I work…..set up the mitre box..









Then a test cut or two…









Like butter…..another looksee?









So..a $5.38 saw brought back to life. (sales tax for the $0.38….grrrr)


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## WorksWoodSlowly

I just picked up a Stanley 2358B mitre box and thought I had a great find until I started doing some reading and closer examination. I think it's missing a few pieces but I'm not sure what or where. The few photos and discussions I've found online are regarding the 2358A - I'm not sure if the "A" or "B" makes a difference. But one major difference from the pictures is that mine has plastic saw guides and all the photos I can find show metal, so I assume mine is a newer version.

If anyone has one of these, could you tell me about how it works and share some close-up photos so I can figure out what's missing?

Thanks.


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## Poa

WWS.. I have never seen a "B" box, much less a box with plastic guides. Honestly, the "A" boxes were lacking the quality of their forerunners, so I can only imagine what a "B" box must be like. If I was serious about wanting a user box, it would be a fifties or sixties No. 360 or No. 358.

Post some pics of your box, and we'll see if we can't figure out what it needs to make it complete.


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## bandit571

Would it look like this one?









Sold as a Craftsman…









Took a 4×20" backsaw…









Used rubber "O" rings on the white plastic guides. 









Maybe this in a larger size?


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## WorksWoodSlowly

> WWS.. I have never seen a "B" box, much less a box with plastic guides. ... Post some pics of your box, and we ll see if we can t figure out what it needs to make it complete.


Here are some photos of it. It turns freely so I think something is missing from the lock. I have the saw but it wasn't handy to include in the photo.


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## Poa

Well…..I'm no help to you. Thats the first one I've seen, and I have no information about it. But I would bet that it is a modern enough model that you can still get parts for it.


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## JethroBodean

Last week I spotted a box with saw on Craigslist for $35. They only had one picture and it was taken from the back of the box; but it looked to me like a Millers Falls Langdon 'Acme' Miter Box. I have never seen a Langdon out here in the wild frontier lands of Oregon. When I went down to look at it, the badge was Craftsman rather than Langdon or Millers Falls, but otherwise does appear to be an Acme Miter box.










Yes I still bought it. I read somewhere that the badge is the only difference between a Millers Falls and a Craftsman. The only things that I can see that are missing are the front depth gauge & thumb screw and a length gauge.



















There is a hole in the side of the Back-right and the Front-Left legs that appear to be for holding a round rod. There is a Thumb Screw coming through the front of the Front-right leg that runs to the hole in the back-right leg and would be able to tighten against a rod running though the hole in the back leg. I see a multi-piece length stop in the #49 (year??) catalog, but not in the #39 (1925) catalog. Does anybody have picture of this 3 piece length stop assembly?I assume it will be similar to the Stanley length stop, but the 'tree' must be different.










The one oddity is that the bottom of the saw guides have a grove all the way around (more like a GP saw guide) rather that the 'nick' in one place. Is this a change made later, the #49 catalog seems to be showing the nick in the parts page. The top of the guides do not look to be GP.










Whatever wisdom you are willing to impart will be greatly appreciated.


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## Poa

I betcha Glen over at timetested tools can tell you about it. I haven't a clue about MFs.


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## Poa

The 15 1/2 was an xmas gift to myself. Now….if I can just find a saw for it….


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## theoldfart

Perfect pair POA. I still haven't acquired the 15 1/2.

Saws for these sometimes cost more than the box themselves!


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## Poa

Darn, Kevin, I thought you had a 15 1/2. I need to find pictures and dimensions for the correct stops. Currently, I stuck an extra pair of 16 1/2 stops on it.

And eat your heart out. I few months back I bought a 22" Acme 120 for ten bucks. Real nice saw. Kinda hated to part with it, but traded it for a 2" x 16" Disston for the 16 1/2.


----------



## Poa

Wow, egads, and golly gee. Was just contacted by a guy that has a saw for the 15 1/2, a Disston. Now, just gotta arrive at a trade, or an amount. I hope he'll trade for something. Christmas has me tapped out.


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## theoldfart

I've only seen the stops once on the bay, they went quickly.


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## FoundSheep

Just wanted too share with everyone what I got for Christmas. My wife contacted John (Poa), and got me one of his refurbished saws. It's a beautiful Stanley 360, absolutely a treat. This is my first old miter box, and it is definitely a "dream".
Now, I just need to figure out how all these pieces go together!


----------



## Poa

Will…be sure to holler if you need help. This morning I emailed Jullianne a pdf on how to tune the box. Heres a pic of it assembled.


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## BlasterStumps

Wow, I like the looks of the smaller boxes. I will have to keep an eye out for one.


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## Mosquito

I was thinking about making a saw for my smaller box, I'm also not 100% sure what mine is either


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## Poa

Well, Blaster, if you run across one, scarf it up quick. They don't last long for sale, despite being expensive. I'm lucky, I have less than 300 in the 16 1/2, including the saw. And, with the saw I'm about to purchase for the 15 1/2, I will have just under 400 in the 15 1/2. And still need to find or fabricate the correct stops for it. And, in my opinion, I am lucky to have these boxes at that price. They have been known to sell for much more. Bode just got close to 700 bucks for one. Now, I have my sights set on a Pratt All Steel No.1625. But finding one of those is probably a pipe dream. The last one that sold on ebay went for 800 bucks.


----------



## Poa

Mosquito…

Whats your small box look like? Pics?


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## Mosquito

I had pictures at one point, I believe it's a 15-1/2, but will try to get pictures tomorrow. I had taken some pictures and shared them with Glen, but have since deleted them apparently


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## Poa

I hope it is a 15 1/2. I thought Kevin had one, but apparently not. I need pics and dimensions of the height stop guides. Hope you can provide them.


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## Mosquito

Doubtful, I don't think I have them on mine, but have the threaded holes for them. I haven't done anything with the box yet, apart from clean up the gunk in the mechanisms so things move well again.


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## Poa

Yes…that is a 15 1/2. The tale is told by the length of your guides, and the height of the fence. Believe it or not, my 15 1/2 frame is an 1/8" shorter than my 16 1/2 frame. The leg measurements differ as well. The swingarm dimensions are identilcal, the only difference being slight, having to do with the raised ridge the stops ride on.

I'm curious…did you polish the knob on the locking rod? The knob on my 15 1/2 is bright steel as well. However, on the parts donor No. 16 1/2 I have, it is steel but the knob still has japaning on it. Perhaps on the parts donor, that has a busted frame, the frame became broken before usage wore off the japaning. The knob on my 16 1/2:is brass, and the edges of the tables were painted green, rather than red, which leads me to believe it predates your and my 15 1/2.

I guess I gotta get busy, and put the word out about the stops, in the hope I can find clear pics and dimensions.

Bear in mind I still have the Stanley shipping crate, which could be partial payment if you decide you wanna part with your box.


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## Mosquito

I did yes, it was pretty rust before, and once I got the rust off it didn't look to be painted or japanned, so I cleaned it up with some scotchbright pad

I hadn't intended to part with the 15-1/2, as I as planning to use it as with my small tool chest, since it takes up a smaller amount of space. Of course, that's contingent on me actually making a saw for it lol


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## Poa

So…I have some feelers out. I have found various people who have, or have had,15 1/2s , based on old forum comments I have found in searches. Found some pics too. There are five components to the height stops on each guide post. Two round head screws, that attach the long height stop to the guide post and the guide head, the long height stop itself, and a thumbscrew and plate that adjust between the guide head and the guide post top. I would assume the bottom screw, that attaches the hieght stop to the guide post, is left loose, so the height stop can travel up and down with the guide. Excuse the crude drawing…did it quick, 'cause I need to get out the door.


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## BlasterStumps

I found the mitre box of my dreams finally after buying several Stanleys and MFs, then I found my Wards Master box. I really liked the Wards Clone of the Stanley 150 but that one didn't slow up my search for a full sized mitre box that I really liked. Then along came my Wards Master full sized Mitre box with it's own saw to boot. I couldn't be happier with it but I have been wanting someplace in my shop to put it where I can use it at will but not have it on my work bench. Just before Christmas, I bought a couple sheets of plywood with the intent of building a Dual Tool Station as seen in ShopNotes. The article gives details for a cabinet that will house either a lunchbox planer or a power mitre box and then has a place where you can set either to use them with in feed and out feed tables. I don't have a lunch box planer but I have both the power mitre box and the hand tool version mitre box. Well today I built the "box" part of the project so now I can start putting the housings and wings on. The fun parts coming up. The "box" part of it was a bit of a pain. I figure if we do get to build a house and shop this year, the mitre box work station will come in mighty handy. Well, at least for making some furniture or built-ins for the house.


----------



## theoldfart

Post some pics Blaster. I'll be setting up a new shop this year and looking for ideas and I like the sounds of yours.


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## BlasterStumps

Not much to show yet. All I have done so far is the box but I have broken down a couple sheets of plywood for some other pieces of it. I'll take a few more pics when I get further along on it.


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## BlasterStumps

Not done with it yet but making some progress. I can start on the wings now. I need to find some flush hinges for them. Then the bottom shelf, drawer, and doors. Fun, fun.


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## Poa

So…still haven't got the correct stops for the No. 15 1/2 Langdon. However, have managed to get accurate measurements, and pictures. And an acquaintance from the Facebook saws page, a machinist, has agreed to mill them for me. I've discovered that the small cap screws on the guide posts of the 23 series Stanley boxes, that hold the stops to the posts, are the correct length and thread to use on the Langdon.

But the good news is that I have managed to mate the box to a correct sized 2 1/2" × 16" Disston. It is a WWII era saw, with the Disston/Keystone Saw Works etch. It is not a Keystone, though. The Keystone numbering was always prefaced with a capital K, such as their K-1 backsaws. Remarkably, this saw is unused, NOS condition.


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## Mosquito

That's awesome poa! I'm interested to see the stops you get made. I'm still in the hunt for a saw and those stops myself. More likely to make a saw than find one, though.


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## BlasterStumps

Hey "oldfart", I'm at a stopping point on my mitre saw station. I ordered some flush hinges but they won't be showing up for a few more days. I have the wings and their supports made, just need to go to town and get some continuous hinge to mount the supports. Can't mount the wings until I have the flush hinges so it all stop for now. I have the drawer, the sliding shelf in the bottom made and in place and the fences made that will mount on the wings. The wings will fold down flush on both sides. Doors are on but I need to pick up some bullet catches to hold them shut. I need to cut some laminate for the wings and fences. Might try cutting some of it this afternoon. Outside of the plywood, I have made do with wood I had. I bought two sheets of 3/4 ply but after using it for this cabinet, I don't care much for the plywood from the big box store. 
Mike

Here is a picture:


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## FrankonThetis

Picked up an old miter box today c/w Disston saw. The only ID on the box are 2 patent dates, Patd 8-02-04 on the frame and Patd 3-15-04 on each half of the 2 saw carrier or guides. Nothing to say made by whom. Think it might be a 50 1/2 but a blog refurb done in Aug 2012 by Wild Rose Woodcraft shows their 50 1/2 with the Stanley ID plate. Looking at the patents on the 8-02-04 found 766796-798 FH Richards for saw guides & saw guide clamp and 3-15-04 754625 JH Traut for saw carrier or guide both showing [No model]. The patent descriptions all say assignor to the Stanley Rule & Level Co. The box is green in color but unsure if this is original color.
Could it be a Stanley 50 1/2? The back saw guides are connected but the front ones are split and look like they never had a slot to connect them together. Here are some pics. Would just like to know a model/type and possible age.
Thanks,


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## Poa

I think you're on track about it being a 50 1/2. The legs appear to be user made.


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## theoldfart

Second generation Justus Traut mitre box. Original legs would have been cast.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Poa & ToF, thanks for your reply. Wondered about the legs but without seeing a parts list for the 50 !/2 similar to what my 358 has wasn't sure. ToF, in posts #2573 and 2574 you and Johnny7 talk about "a definitive article on early Traut miterboxes". How does one find/obtain that article? You also discuss a 1908 patent for a "tensioner" when discussing the types. Does this imply my latest box could be from the 1904-1908 era?

Thanks
Frank


----------



## theoldfart

Frank, the article is from the chronicle of the Early American Industry Association. I'll post the exact one this weekend along with a pic of the Traut first design.


----------



## FrankonThetis

ToF, thank you, would appreciate that very much. Seeing all the bits and pieces will make it helpful looking for or trying to fabricate any missing parts. Thanks again for your help.

Frank


----------



## theoldfart

Frank, the article Johnny and I were referring to is Vol 60 Number 1, March, 2007 issue of The Chronicle of the Early American Industries Association, Inc. The EAIA sells a dvd with all of their back issues, well worth the price and it supports a great organization.

Pics of one of my early Trauts:









This one is with the second of Leander Langdons original mitre boxes. I have never seen a picture his first, only a patent drawing.









If you need detailed pics let me know.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Thanks Kevin will look up the EAIA website. The legs on my box looks more like the ones you would see on a 60 1/2 versus what your first picture shows. Similarly mine has no connecting bar between the front and back uprights [pic 2 Traut box] but are there springs on any of your 4 uprights? If it is no problem a pic showing underneath of frame & front view of swingarm would be nice to have for comparison with my box. Thanks again.
Frank


----------



## BlasterStumps

ToF, Here is another pic of the mitre saw station. Thought I would give you one last update on the build. Not sure I would recommend this project without some changes. I don't like the design of the supports now that I have it put together.

I have some more hardware coming for it and; will need to set up the saws to match the height of the tables then it should be completed.










Mike


----------



## bandit571

At a yard sale a long while back, picked a bench for $20 or so..









Been home to a few mitre boxes, ever since. Top is a black formica affair…..solid wood under it.


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## theoldfart

Hey Mike that looks like a workable solution for my needs. I figured I'd need to make the box height adjustable for the different boxes I use. right now they are on panels that I clamp to the bench and I have to jury rig supports on either side for the stock. Thanks for the posts and I'm looking forward to your thoughts on using it.


----------



## theoldfart

Frank, as promised. This is the better of my two Trauts.


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## FrankonThetis

Thanks Kevin. Quite a significant difference in the frame styles between our boxes. Just cleaning the old paint, heavy sawdust etc off mine and found a 3rd patent date 9-27-04 on the top of the swingarm underneath the board. See yours has those rollers [wood?] behind the uprights that the saw teeth rest on similar to a 150. As a matter of interest, did Justus A. Traut actually patent a miter box or just add enhancements to what Stanley was producing at the time? My interpretation of his 1877 patent was to enhance an existing miter box. Course at my age trying to understand those patent applications is anything but simple!!
Thanks again for your help.
Frank


----------



## theoldfart

I'm pretty sure Traut developed the first Stanley Mitre box. Here is Trauts first patent


----------



## FrankonThetis

That was the patent document found very confusing because it says:
I have invented certain *new and useful Improvements in Miter-Boxes.* of which the following is a specification My invention consists, iirst, of the facingboard, having a narrow V-sided slot, the widest part of which is qu the rear side etc., etc., 
The schematic certainly looks like your box but his description at the start of the patent kind of implies he is patenting improvements. Find these documents challenging to understand for someone never involved with doing any patent filing.


----------



## theoldfart

I think Traut was referring to the ubiquitous wooden mitre box that most carpenter had. I think Langdons patent application was the same way, iron mire boxes were just beginning to proliferate.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Cleaning off the accumulation of sawdust & whatever from the latest miter box found a 3rd patent date. It is on the swivel arm. The pictures also show the one on the frame itself. Is there a known timeframe when Stanley started to metal badge the 50 1/2 & 60 1/2's?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Now that I leveled my hand tool mitre box on the cabinet, I find it is stable and works quite nicely. The reasoning that I had for making this cabinet was (1), I have a small workspace so I needed a dedicated mitre station that I could nest in along my one wall. (2), I also wanted a mobile workstation with storage for whichever mitre box I wasn't using at the time. 
Unless I come up with some more support for long stock, this cabinet with the wings open will only realistically be used for boards around 6' or shorter. I have a 2-drawer file cabinet mounted on a nice rolling platform that I plan to add some height to that can be rolled up in place to use for longer stock support. All this because I have to nest all my stuff or I don't have the room for it. 
If you have plenty of room for a dedicated mitre station that doesn't have to fold up like this one when I push it back in against the wall, then I would not build this particular station. I would instead suggest a longer more conventional set-up. The folding wings on this one I built are a real aggravation and are the one design feature that I plan to modify. I will most likely replace the wing supports with a more conventional knee lock or brace that doesn't need all the fiddling to use. 
All the issues with the wings aside, I am happy that I now have a dedicated mitre station. Now I can use my hand tool mitre box and keep my workbench clear for other things at the same time. 
One big lesson learned during this project: The made in China plywood from the big box store puts off a real irritating sawdust and; is prone to warping. Not sure why either of those things but I don't care for it. Won't be using it again if I have a choice.
Mike



> Hey Mike that looks like a workable solution for my needs. I figured I d need to make the box height adjustable for the different boxes I use. right now they are on panels that I clamp to the bench and I have to jury rig supports on either side for the stock. Thanks for the posts and I m looking forward to your thoughts on using it.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## Poa

Frank, I have the same box you do. The legs on it are very similar to the cast legs used on the next generation of boxes, except the tear holes are not threaded for knurled leveler screws. Incredibly, the user of this box must have wondered why he couldn't keep a saw sharp for more than a few minutes. Or, maybe he was partial to Langdons, and figured he'd cut this crummy 'ol Stanley in half.

Edit: Forgot to mention. Mine hd the early red color, not green. Still trying to match the color before I put the box back together.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Poa, looked at your picture and thought "jeez mine is missing a centre slot", then read your post. Would be hard on the saws teeth for sure! Decided to clean off all the existing paint and grime and repaint the frame a green colour and the saw guide plates black. Was the underneath of your frame just primed a rust red or finished red as well? Wonder why up here PO's of miter boxes always manage to change something from the original. Buying from antique stores is always a crap shoot as it seems most old tools are re-fitted with whatever the dealers have on hand. Seldom if ever have seen any old miter boxes in the wild.
Sure would be nice to find/get the proper cast legs. It will be a nice user to go along with my 358 & 100 Stanley's, MF and the Langdon all steel. Hopefully 5 will now be enough!


----------



## Poa

Frank…I have a later set of cast legs that will fit. The bummer is that they have the bosses for the cut stop components that the next generation of Stanleys had. But you might prefer them over your bent steel legs. 30 bucks,shipped, for the pair of you want 'em. I just checked, and they are about 1/4" taller than original legs, and they will definitely fit on the frame just fine.


----------



## FrankonThetis

Poa, sent you a PM from your home page. Hopefully it went through!


----------



## Poa

Frank…just purchased a set of complete guide posts, the vintage of your box, on ebay. Lord knows why, but the guy had 'em listed as a "buy-it-now" for 1 dollar, with 8.88 for shipping. So, for 10 bucks, I didn't see any reason to pass them up. I have a feeler out to him to see if he has the.legs belonging to the box. They would be the correct legs for your box if he has them. I'll letcha know if he has 'em, and, if so, put you in contact with him.


----------



## Slyy

First mostly complete box for me I think. Looks to be a Millers Falls Langdon, indicates it's a Size 2, No 73.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice, Jake!


----------



## Poa

I have managed to land a Goodell Pratt No. 1625. This is the small Pratt, the size of the 15 1/2 Langdons. I don't have it yet, but it should be in my mitts by the end of the week. (The picture is not the one I purchased, it is off the Langdon site's gallery.) Dating it is somewhat tough. It appears in the 1938 Millers Falls catalogue, but thats the only catalogue entry I'm aware of. The one I just purchased has either been repainted, or came from the factory with a completely different paint scheme in regards to the red highlighing. If any of you have 1939 or early 40s catalogues, GP or MF, would you check for me, and see if its in them? Also, 1937.
Thanks.


----------



## Poa

Well….heres a bit of info thats helpful. A 1929 Goddell Pratt ad marketing the No. 1625. Two years before the Millers Falls buy out, and nine years before its mention in the 1938 Millers Falls catalogue.

https://books.google.com/books?id=w94DAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA160&lpg=RA1-PA160&dq=Goodell+Pratt+No.+1625&source=bl&ots=ZePmacnmOs&sig=lOBPtiogaLl_mGcgDCqbe67XLVo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0oKGLu_3YAhUM3mMKHYr4D98Q6AEwD3oECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=Goodell%20Pratt%20No.%201625&f=false


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice find!!


----------



## Poa

So….Kevin is gonna be on here, bragging, any minute now.


----------



## theoldfart

Since you say so


















Details later, head is tired!


----------



## Poa

This was an unexpected score yesterday. Kinda fell in my lap. Funky dull WS saw, but the mitre box is super clean, original paint. Got to thinking, and I can't say as I've ever seen any of the wooden rulers and their stops, that go on these fixtures, offered for sale. Anyway, its a Stanley/Marsh No. 100. No idea about vintage, but the color and saw handle design cries out 60s or 70s to me.


----------



## RWE

Check the Lee Valley catalog. I remember seeing some wooden rulers in their catalog that looked like they would work. Also, as a favor, check the saw plate thickness. I assume that the WS saw is a normal thickness and not the thinner plate that I had to have for my older Marsh.


----------



## DLK

> This was an unexpected score yesterday. Kinda fell in my lap. Funky dull WS saw, but the mitre box is super clean, original paint. Got to thinking, and I can t say as I ve ever seen any of the wooden rulers and their stops, that go on these fixtures, offered for sale. Anyway, its a Stanley/Marsh No. 100. No idea about vintage, but the color and saw handle design cries out 60s or 70s to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


You are also missing the low clamps. I have one and some day will make a copy so that I have a match. If I do I'll let you know how it works out. It should not be hard. A CNC would do it easily. I have never seen a ruler for it and I have been looking.


----------



## DLK

> Check the Lee Valley catalog. I remember seeing some wooden rulers in their catalog that looked like they would work. Also, as a favor, check the saw plate thickness. I assume that the WS saw is a normal thickness and not the thinner plate that I had to have for my older Marsh.
> 
> - RWE


Thats good to know.


----------



## RWE

Lee Valley link for wooden rulers:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=70550&cat=1,43513


----------



## Poa

Heres one with a ruler. First and only ruler I have ever seen. Wouldn't be hard to make one, however.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/232635981797


----------



## Johnny7

If you took the time to read the description, you'd learn that this is not the original/correct ruler.

quote:
"No ruler was in the box, but I have added one in very nice condition."


----------



## Poa

Johnny…I did read the description. I interpreted it differently than you. If you look at the ruler closely, I believe it IS the correct ruler, but thd seller bought it, after purchasing the box, from another source. The graduations, eyelets, end rabbet, and everything about it insinuates that it is factory made, and not user made.


----------



## Johnny7

Your point is well-taken-entirely possible.

What would be useful is a set of dimensions (from this seller?) for the ruler.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It'd be a good question for the seller, as in, where'd you get the ruler?


----------



## RWE

I researched "rulers" a while back. The two holes in the end, the way the numbers are oriented on the rule, etc. make me think that is a correct ruler. The ruler also had an end rabbet as POA described above. Somewhere I viewed a picture of the ruler as an accessory to the Marsh/Stanley in one of the old catalogs. That looks like the real thing.


----------



## Johnny7

for what it's worth, I posted ruler shots found online back HERE


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I remember those! Great pics, too.


----------



## Johnny7

Thanks, Smitty.


----------



## Poa

I had contacted the seller before I posted here, telling him that I would be interested in the ruler if his auction did not go well. I also asked him where he found that ruler. He declined to answer.

And this box takes a standard thickness plate, not the thinner gauge plate.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I also asked him where he found that ruler. He declined to answer.
> 
> - Poa


Wow, talk about strange.


----------



## Poa

I just looked up the Stanley No. 100 mitre fixtures in Walters book, 1st edition. He claims the No. 100 was discontinued in 1934. Can that be right? My 100 "feels" far more recent than that.


----------



## Poa

Well…the Goodell Pratt No. 1625 is a done deal. The collector side of me is glad to have it, although I would rather that it woulda been acquired with the original paint, in aged condition. But, because of the rather crappy repaint someone did on it, a restoration was required. Also, the saw that came with it is a better match on my Langdon No. 15 1/2, so I am mating this unused Disston No. 4 to this box.

My impression of this mitre box, after tearing it down, cleaning it up, carefully examining its components? I'm not impressed. As a user, I am much happier with the small Langdons. The frame on this box is a very rough casting. I cleaned the frame all the way down to bare metal. Yet, after painting, it looks as though it was left dirty, then painted, because of the poor quality of the casting. Very rough, with lots of grinder marks where they cleaned up the casting flashes. As is usual for any mitre box made in the early half of 1900, most of the nickel plating is long gone. Originally, the guide posts, guides, gib, stops, stop washers, and stop screws were nickel plated. The gib is about the only part that has retained the majority of its plating. There is no provision for locking the swingarm between indent settings, although by very slightly shortening the forward spacer between the swingarm and the gib would allow you to tighten the spacer screw and pinch the gib into the quadrant, which would lock it on a setting between the indents. Basically, thats how the larger Goodell Pratt boxes operate.

This box just doesn't have the "Wow, cool, glad to have this!" kind of energy that the small Langdon's do. I'd sell this box. Can't say the same about the Langdons.

Known production history: It is in the Millers Falls catalogues published in 1935, and 1938. I also found an ad in Popular Mechanics, from 1929, which is before the 1931 Millers Falls buy out of Goodell Pratt.

Frame length…12" 
Table depth…. 3-1/4" 
Fence height… 2-1/4" 
Cut capacity


Code:


 45°.... 3-1/4" <br />Cut capacity

 90°…. 4-7/8" 
Height from bench to table top…2-3/4" 
Overall height….6-1/4" with guides set for a 2-1/2" plate


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That box certainly has a Wow factor after your rehab. The saw looks great with it, too. Thanks for posting all the details.


----------



## Johnny7

> I just looked up the Stanley No. 100 mitre fixtures in Walters book, 1st edition. He claims the No. 100 was discontinued in 1934. Can that be right? My 100 "feels" far more recent than that.
> 
> - Poa


That can't be right.
I have (2)-one is 1960s Stanley blue.

But this picture would seem to put it to rest*










*technically, it's a different model-an "MM"

Here's a page from the 1953 Stanley catalog:


----------



## summerfi

A client has sent me some saws to sharpen. In the bunch is a 24" miter saw marked "Langdon Miter Box Co., MIllers Falls, Mass." on the spine. The plate is about 3-9/16" under the spine. Maybe at one time it was 4", I don't know. He doessn't have a box to go with this saw and is asking me what box I would recommend. You guys are much more knowledgeable about miter boxes than I am, so I'm asking you. What box would properly go with this saw, and does anyone happen to have one for sale?


----------



## DLK

According to Instructions and Parts list for setting up and operating Miller Falls "Langdon Acme" Mitre Box "Langdon" Mitre Box "All Steel" Miter Box, the 72C uses a 24×4 Saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Bob, any of the Langdons, Millers Falls, or Goodell Pratt's that use a 4" saw will work. If you could tease another 1/8" out of the spine when you sharpen it your friend will be set for quite some time. I have one late model MF that your friend could have for shipping and 10 bucks. It's missing the ball catches that hold the saw up. It also ways a ton!


----------



## DLK

> It also *weighs* a ton!
> 
> - theoldfart


I know your still recovering so I fixed it for you. LOL


----------



## summerfi

Thanks Kevin, I'll pass that info on. Would the saw still work at 3-9/16", or would it not cut all the way through?


----------



## theoldfart

Bob, yes it will. A 4" box can handle from 3 1/2 to 4 1/2. I'll post a few pics tomorrow to explain.

Don thanks for the correction, I keep tilting to starboard. Or was it port? Definitely tilting either way.


----------



## bandit571

Left is "Port", right is "Starboard".....I usually list to starboard as I walk along with the right ear no longer in there…


----------



## Johnny7

> It also *weighs* a ton!
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> I know *you're* still recovering so I fixed it for you. LOL
> 
> - Combo Prof


Hey, Professor
I fixed it for you.


----------



## DLK

Ha. Of course I should know better then correct someone. Whenever you do (or at least when I do) more mistakes are made. Silly me. LOL^2.

(I really am terrible at proofreading.)


----------



## theoldfart

Bob, this post is typical of MF, GP and Langdon 4" box


















So the range is 4 5/16" to 3 5/16". The range can be increased by filing the opening in the slot.









Since it is formed with a circular slot cutter a small amount of material can be filed away to increase the range and not compromise the posts strength.









You can skip the filing and just add a wooden deck to raise the work to meet the saw.


----------



## summerfi

Thanks Kevin. That's very helpful. I'll pass the info along and we'll see what happens.


----------



## JethroBodean

Ok people I could use some of the LJ/Mitre Box knowledge. I stumbled across an old box (no saw) at a salvage yard. When I asked what the owner wanted for it, I almost fell on the floor when he said $2.00. Now I'm positive it either is a Stanley or it's what evolved into the Stanley line, But I cannot find the Stanley name on it anywhere. Can anybody tell me for sure what i have? It is missing one of the legs but otherwise it seems to pretty complete.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, it's a Stanley either a 50 or 60. POA could probably give a more accurate answer. It is an early version.

Edit: correction 50 1/2 or 60 1/2. The difference between the two is one came with saw. They are identical boxes


----------



## RWE

I've got the same box and thought it was a 60 1/2. After doing research I figured out it is a 50 1/2. They are kind of unique since they will accept a panel saw.

It looks like you lost one of the cast legs. The later models had steel legs. My model has cast legs, but no model plate. Later models had paper labels. Earlier models had metal labels. So if you don't have a label, it is probably a mid-range model (1909-1967) that still had cast legs but had lost the metal label. I figure mine is a 50's model.

From Sawmill Creek:
The 50-1/2 was made from 1909 to 1967. It was supplied without a saw, which explains why the saw you have has the name of a different miter box manufacturer on it. It should work just fine, as long as it is sharp.
The capacity of the 50-1/2 is listed as 4 inches, a bit smaller than I said in my first post. 
Hope this helps.


----------



## bandit571

Couldn't get enough room to use the Langdon today…had a few smaller parts to cut..









Reset the guide for my No.4









Not too bad..









Cuts were done, fold the GEM up, and stash it back into the drawer…


----------



## DLK

Packing up more tools for the move today. Time to pack up my Miller Falls - Langdon 74C:










Any advice on packing it?

Saw is a Stanley 28×5


----------



## theoldfart

I just shipped a similar box. I removed the legs and the gib bar. Take pics as you dis assemble it.


----------



## DLK

I was hoping to not disassemble. But if I have to grrr. I'm not exactly shipping. It will be a box in a trailer I will pack and tow or maybe I can put in the cab or bed of the truck.


----------



## Johnny7

just remove the uprights from the castings, then turn table as far as possible to one side or the other to minimize width.
remove saw, of course, and wrap box in an old blanket or mattress pad.


----------



## theoldfart

^ what he said.

I have to move fifteen of 'em cross country, need a lot of blankets.


----------



## DLK

Oh all right, if you guys insist.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I had assumed you were shipping the box by common carrier.


----------



## DLK

No, by uncommon carrier, LOL.


----------



## theoldfart

At the very least above average Don!


----------



## IantheTinker

I found this miter box at my local Restore. Can anyone tell me anything about it? The only identification is the HWI logo on the front. Also, is my saw loaded into it correctly?


























What might be some good ways to lube it up and just generally get it into solid working condition? I am pretty new to old tools so I am willing to soak up information.


----------



## JethroBodean

The only answer I have for you is "Yes the saw is 'loaded' correctly. You want to push the saw towards the back wall of the box. If you decide to lubricate the box, then I recommend you use a 'dry' lubricant. A wet lubricant will attract and collect the saw dust.


----------



## IantheTinker

> The only answer I have for you is "Yes the saw is loaded correctly. You want to push the saw towards the back wall of the box. If you decide to lubricate the box, then I recommend you use a dry lubricant. A wet lubricant will attract and collect the saw dust.
> 
> - JethroBodean


Thanks for the tip on dry lubrication.


----------



## bandit571

Saw is back home!









Means the mitre box can go back to being a No. 75. Saw has been set and sharpened. Maybe I can give the 5×28 saw a rest, for a while.


----------



## bandit571

Garage Sale find…









"Popular Mechanics" on the saw. Thing is actually two parts, screwed to a board of your choice…Has rubber feet under the wood"deck"....Saw was "extra"....he wanted $10 just for the box….got it for $7..COUNTING the saw.
Needs a bit of cleaning up..









Went to two different sales..spent $8.35 for the stuff…might get a new wood deck..happen to have a few scraps of 2×10 sitting around…Haven't found anything on the box, to show who made it….or a model number…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found this Stanley mitre box and saw today. I'm thinking it is a 50 1/2 mitre box. The bed on it is 18" long. The saw plate measures 5" below the spine and it is a 26", 11 PPI toothline. It was made by Disston for Stanley and it has a heart with SW inside it in the etch. I got the box and saw together because they were priced as one at a shade under $30. The box apparently never had a nameplate or stop rods. The stock rods for moldings have gone missing.

Questions for you experts: Does the box look like a 50 1/2? Any idea of the age of it? I really wanted the 5" sawplate but now I am wondering if the box would be worth redoing? 
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

A good find with a good saw, well worth a restoration effort. Contact LJ POA for help and parts, he should be able to guide you in the restore.


----------



## JethroBodean

Blaster - I don't think that is a 50 1/2. As far As I know they always had saw guides with 'wings'.










And the quadrants were not solid, they had open sections.










Assuming that is the original saw then I suspect that you have an early 358. The saw has a clipped heal, so even though the tooth line is 26", it is still considered a 28" saw (the length of the plate). I would expect the all of the patent date on the quadrant to be less than 10-31-1916, which is when the rods and tree length stops were patented.

So what is the last patented date on the quadrant? I'd wager that there are four dates and they all are from 1904.

Jeff


----------



## BlasterStumps

Jeff, the latest date is 9-27-04
Thanks,
Mike


----------



## RWE

I have a 50 1/2 and I agree that your find looks more like a 358. It is definitely not a 50 1/2. I think you have a serious box worth restoring. The 50 1/2 takes a smaller saw and as was mentioned, with the wings on the guides, you could use a panel saw with it.

I have a 358 Sweetheart that I got from Jon (POA). He can probably get the missing parts for you. If you know the saw and the box came together, I think the Sweetheart era was the 20's. 1923 comes to mind, but my mind is apt to err.

I have two saws for the 358, one that came with it, an Atkins, and a Simonds. Both saws have a 26 to 26.5 tooth line and I know the Atkins is original to the box and has a Sweetheart Logo on it. So the total length is what makes it a 28 inch saw.

Nice find for that price.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good info on the model. Thanks guys. That makes more sense for it to be a 358. It does have the movable front guide assembly. I don't see that on the 50 1/2s. I wasn't looking at that feature when trying to figure out the model earlier. Thanks again.

Well, guess I have another project. I have it disassembled and will start in on it as time allows. 
Mike


----------



## Poa

That is a first generation 358. Way before the Sweetheart era. That design post mounting blocks is a give away of vintage, as are the saw hangers, and the detail of the guide castings. Here is the evolution of the mounting blocks.The first one is first generstion. The middle one was on the first Sweetheart boxes, and the last one was used, I'm pretty sure, towards the end of the Sweetheart era, forward. And yes, I do have some parts for the early boxes. With exception of saw hanger parts. I have yet to find a front and rear set that has survived intact.


----------



## Poa

While I'm here, might as well show you this Jacobs box I recently purchased. Coincidentally, two of these showed up on ebay at the same time, different sellers. First two, and only two, I have ever seen. I bought the best, and the least expensive, of the two. I really expected to recieve a Stanley No. 150 clone. But I had it backwards. The Jacobs was patented in 1889, and was actually the box that Stanley patterned the No. 150 after. Oddly, mine came with two wood tables. The attached table has a paper label printed in German, and a loose table with a partial paper label printed in English. As you can see, the Jacobs dwarves a Stanley No. 150. The saw that came with the box is a 4" x 24" Richardson. I havd no idea oc it is original to the box. I tend to doubt it, although the mint condition of the japaning on the box mates perfectly with the mint condition of the saw plate. Btw, this box has more preset indents on the quadrant than any other box I have seen.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for sharing the info on the 358 mitre boxes. Yes the one I have does have the early posts like you show. I will get some work done on it and then see what parts I should try to get. It is missing the saw hangers. I might not mess with trying to find those. 
Fun, fun. I took it apart last night and will put parts in a soak. It has a 100 years of crap on it. : ) The saw is the best of it. I was excited to find a 5". It is in great shape. Only a couple teeth have the tips knocked off. I think a good quick sharpening would take care of that. 
Anyway, thanks again. BTW, congrats on the Jacobs box and that beautiful saw. I'm so envious. 
Mike


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Absolutely love that german language label, what a find. Congrats for sure, and thanks for posting pics!


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, that is an exception find on the Jacobs. I went right by it thinking it was just a Stanley knock off, my mistake!


----------



## Poa

Don't feel bad, Kevin. I bought the thing, thinking it was a Stanley knock off.


----------



## Poa

You know…thinking about it, it seems odd that it took Stanley 33 years before they cloned the Jacobs. Musta taken them that long to get into the position to swallow the Jacobs company, automatically giving them the rights to the patent.


----------



## BlasterStumps

What else did Jacobs' offer besides the mitre boxes? I tried to research the business but only seem to come up with a current company. I can't think of any Jacobs' hand tools that I have seen.
Mike


----------



## Poa

I have struck out in my research too.


----------



## DonBroussard

Poa/Blaster - Nice gets on those cool miter boxes.

I have a Stanley 246 and don't know enough to know if this box is complete and the saw is correct for it. I've had this setup for a couple of years and am a bit embarrassed at its sad state. Thanks in advance for comments and advise.


----------



## Poa

Don…missing the pair of stock rests. Also, your front guide post assembly is mounted backwards. The round end of the saw hanger should be pointed towards you, as should the three slotted screws on the mounting block. The rear guide post sssembly is in backwards as well. Here is a picture of a WWII era 346, complete and correct. However because it is a wartime issue, it differs from yours, having steel and painted parts where your box has brass and nickle plated parts.


----------



## Poa

Sorry Don, forgot your question about the saw. The Stanley model numbers are actually a code. The first number is the frame evolution. In other words, yours is a second generation frame. The box I showed you, a no. 346, is a third generation frame. The second number is the saw height UNDER the spine, 4". And the third number is saw plate length, including what is in the handle, 26". So, your box takes a 4" x 26" backsaw, or mitre box saw. In turn, a No.358 is a third generation frame, and the box is designed to be used with a 5" x 28" saw. There is some tolerance, to allow for diminished saw height due to sharpening. But a 4" saw won't work in a 5" box, because the saw's toothline would be inside the guides. You can use a 5" saw on a 4" box. But it decreases the clearance between the saw and the table by a full inch.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Don Broussard, that is a nice mitre box! Can't tell you how much I would like to find some of those parts and pieces that that box has. Your box is more complete than the biggest percentage of them I have seen. Your stock rests could be made easy enough. Just need some steel strap and round stock. I might make a couple for my 358 at some point. Cool box you got there. congrats!
Mike


----------



## JethroBodean

POA - Maybe you need some 'Jacobs' art to go in your shop. https://www.amazon.com/Patent-Burgundy-Border-Rustic-Frame/dp/B078BPPDDS


----------



## Poa

Mike certainly has the right idea as far as complimenting Don''s box. Near complete, or 100% complete is definitely the way to purchase them. If you are missing a bunch of parts, it can be very expensive to complete one. If looking to purchase one, patience is key. Wait for one that is complete, of near so. Mike's box is a perfect example of what I look for when seeking boxes for restoration.


----------



## Poa

Jeff….hmmm….dang near what I paid for the box. Think I'll pass.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks for the info, comments and compliments on my box and saw. The saw looks to be correct in size, at least.


----------



## bandit571

INfo on this "Thing" if you please..









Saw had a silk-screened "Popular Mechanics" label..









Hmmm..









No other markings…









And, IF the wood base should warp…









You either put up with it, or make a new base?









About the only way I could get this to work….

May just keep the saw…..not sure about the box…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm trying to get the early 358 mitre box to cut square but am not finding anything online to guide me in that. I see there are slotted set screws on each side of the swing arm part way back but do not know what they do. I don't see anything else on the swing arm that might be an adjustment for cutting square. Anyone dealt with this issue before on an early (probably frame 2) Stanley 358 or other similar box? 
Mike


----------



## Poa

Mike…. It is these two screws, one on each side, that adjust the swingarm left to right. Ease one out, tighten the other. That pivots the brass barrel that th indent plunger resides in. If you give me your email address I will send you a pdf of the instruction manual. My email is w[email protected]


----------



## BlasterStumps

PM sent Jon. Thank you. I may have something in there (brass barrel) that is stuck. 
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks to "Poa", I was able to sort out the issue on the 358 box not cutting square. Another example of how great the participants are on this forum. I will strive to help others in a like fashion whenever I can. 
All the best to all the LJ's
Thanks again Jon.
Mike


----------



## gtmac

Hi all,

have been lurking about this site for a while and finally decided to sign up to be able to participate.

It's taken a few weeks but have now viewed all 2995 replies to this thread about mitre boxes, 
and what a wealth of information there is to see and read.

For now I've just stuck with the Stanley products, mainly because other brands are fairly scarce
over here but the Stanley stuff is more abundant.

I noticed Thunderdome is also an 'Aussie' and am just wondering if he has been able to get hold 
of a decent mitre box yet.

I may be able to help as I have a few here.

Graham.


----------



## theoldfart

Welcome aboard Graham. And we forgive you on your Stanley fixation! There's a bit of that going around here.


----------



## bandit571

Used two mitre saws today..









Stanley #2246 for some crosscuts…and.









Langdon #75 for shoulder cuts on tenons…









Once I got the depth stops set…


----------



## Poa

Stanley??? Who's Stanley?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Welcome Graham!


----------



## theoldfart

"Stanley??? Who's Stanley?" well I just don't know Ollie!


----------



## gtmac

Hi all

I need some help.

Back at post # 2249 from JethroBodean he said that he had come across a 2800+ page PDF created by a Jeff Burks about US Mitre Box Patents.

The links to this did not work for me and I'm interested to see this PDF, can anybody post some new links please?

thank you

Graham


----------



## JethroBodean

Graham - That link is now dead for me as well. I'll try to see if it shows up somewhere else.

jeff


----------



## BlasterStumps

I got more done on the 358 box yesterday. I went to Habitat Restore and found a scrap piece of metal to make the stock rests out of. I cut a 1/2" bolt for the vertical rests. The box was missing one of the clamps and thumb screws so for now I am using one that I made out of the same metal piece. I had a thumb screw that is the correct thread/size so I am using it for now also. The hunt for more parts continues. : )

Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

A question for POA if I may please. On the newer styles of the saw guides that you show in the picture, how do you remove them. One has a large slotted screw head on the bottom and the other appears to be conical shaped. I presume on the conical type, there is a screw in the middle at the front that is loosened? I have no clue actually about either. 
Mike



> That is a first generation 358. Way before the Sweetheart era. That design post mounting blocks is a give away of vintage, as are the saw hangers, and the detail of the guide castings. Here is the evolution of the mounting blocks.The first one is first generstion. The middle one was on the first Sweetheart boxes, and the last one was used, I m pretty sure, towards the end of the Sweetheart era, forward. And yes, I do have some parts for the early boxes. With exception of saw hanger parts. I have yet to find a front and rear set that has survived intact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


----------



## JethroBodean

Ok people, I'm looking for knowledge, opinions, comments and/or just plain bs.

I have another Miter Box on the hook. I am planning to pick it up this week, but I don't know for sure what it is. To me it looks a lot like a Traut but I've never seen one of those personally. The seller claims it was manufactured in Kelso Washington. Searching the internet and the US Patents, I haven't been able to find any Kelso Manufacurers of Miter Boxes.

Take a look at the legs, I haven't seen any like that before. Given the saw with it, I think it will be $48 well spent, but don't tell my wife.

Seller's Description: *Date unknown. Manufactured in Kelso Washington. JC Almstrum.*

Jeff


----------



## Johnny7

From here, it looks a lot like a Justus Traut box to me

The legs may well have been replaced; two of the three Traut boxes I've owned had one or more broken leg castings.


----------



## secharles

between the Stanley (top photo) & Lion miter trimmer, we'd have our days plumb filled with woodworking goodness.

http://www2.woodcraft.com/PDF/77A55.pdf


----------



## theoldfart

I agree with Johnny7, it looks like both of the Trauts I have. The legs look user made. Any idea why the seller says it was made in Kelso, WA?


----------



## RWE

Just a guess, but maybe the fellow that put the substitute legs on, used some metal that had a reference to Kelso, WA on the legs. So the current owner sees that and draws an invalid conclusion.


----------



## theoldfart

makes sense


----------



## Poa

Who knows how people arrive at the conclusions they do when assessing old tools? I know, for myself, it is often guesswork, based on some small clue revealed by the tool. These Traut boxes intrigue me. Recently there was one on the bay for 30 some odd bucks, (coulda been forty some odd, can't recall). Can't find it now. Wish I woulda grabbed it, if only for its one good leg and other misc. parts.. I am finding, with these older boxes that I consider collectables, rather than users, it can be necessary to purchase two, three, or four boxes just to complete one. So, the trick is to carefully examine a seller's offering, with an eye towards whats there, instead of whats missing. Suprisingly, I stopped at a garge sale a week or so back, and stumbled onto a Greenfield. As I already had one, missing a few screws, this additional box will allow me to complete the one I already had. I paid too much, as the guy claimed it was his grandfather's, (who knows?). But what are the odds of finding another Greenfield parts donor? Tell ya what, if you aren't a patient fellow, collecting old mitre boxes ain't for you.


----------



## theoldfart

A Greenfield? Good find. Especially being on the West Coast.


----------



## Poa

Yeah, Kevin. Suprised the heck out of me. Don't really know of any other Greenfields, except the two I have, and one Wiktor has pictured on his website.


----------



## JethroBodean

I picked up the Traut this morning. I'll try to post more pictures later. The 'Kelso' references turns out to be from a label on the handle of the saw from a Kelso Wash saw sharpener.










At a quick glance, the only thing I see that is missing is a roller at the base of the rear uprights.


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked up a Millers Falls miter box (Size 2) today for $20. It still moves, has both sets of feet intact and generally appears to be mostly complete. It does have a broken rear post and the table is missing. I've included a couple of pictures. Bottom line: is this a repairable box, or a parts donor? Thanks in advance for the input.


----------



## BlasterStumps

take it to a good welding shop and get their opinion. FWIW, My opinion, I think it could be brazed.


----------



## JethroBodean

Don - you say "the table is missing", but I think you are wrong. That is I believe a Millers Falls "Langdon Acme Mitre Box Improved". According to the 1912 Millers Falls Tool Catalog, one of the features of that box is "Steel bottom boards roughened to prevent the work from slipping."


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks for the feedback. It looks like the break on the rear post is pretty clean so I'll check into getting it brazed. Re: the table, that's interesting. I'm planning on trying to clean up the label to see what other helpful I can find on it. So far, it looks like a 74, but I'm not sure which one.


----------



## bd1886

I love these even though I refuse to use them where it doesn't make sense? However up on scaffold to fine adjust trim, small moldings, small projects across a job site, have a miter shaver and two of these for that and love 'em.

When discussions like this come up I always travel back to when I read a book on ancient and medieval carpentry. Those boys really kicked it out with the most high tech power tool to this day. Our hands!

Thanks for the post. Makes me want to spend some time with one of these, a coping saw, a block plane, and my Old Timer! Lol, Scott


----------



## DLK

> Don - you say "the table is missing", but I think you are wrong. That is I believe a Millers Falls "Langdon Acme Mitre Box Improved". According to the 1912 Millers Falls Tool Catalog, one of the features of that box is "Steel bottom boards roughened to prevent the work from slipping."
> 
> - JethroBodean


I agree I have the MF-L 74c model in excellent condition and the table is the steel plate you have. there is a groove in the moving part that will allow the saw to drop below the table and finish the cut. You must set the stops so that the saw does not drop two far and grind into the metal. Here is a manual that may be useful to you.

It looks to me pretty similar to a 72


----------



## DLK

> Don - you say "the table is missing", but I think you are wrong. That is I believe a Millers Falls "Langdon Acme Mitre Box Improved". According to the 1912 Millers Falls Tool Catalog, one of the features of that box is "Steel bottom boards roughened to prevent the work from slipping."
> 
> IT looks to me pretty similar to a 72
> 
> - JethroBodean
> 
> I agree I have the MF-L 4c model in excellent condition and the table is the steel plate you have. there is a groove in the moving part that will allow the saw to drop below the table and finish the cut. You must set the stops so that the saw does not drop two far and grind into the metal. Here is a manual that may be useful to you.
> 
> - Combo Prof


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a Stanley 368 that is complete along with the proper 6" saw but I don't have a trip clamp for the saw. I found a piece of aluminum that I think I can cut a trip clamp out of but I haven't been able to find any dimensions for a trip clamp that tell me how tall it must sit above the spine. Anyone have a trip clamp for the saw that you could measure and share the dimensions? 
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Old needy Mike : )


----------



## Poa

Mike….I am sure you meant 360, not 368. The trip clamps are elusive, to say the least. So elusive, in fact, that its rare to find a Stanley mitre box saw that has marring on the spine as tell tale evidence that a clamp was used for any length of time. I have only managed to run across two clamps in as many years. They are so scarce that I tend to present my restored boxes as "complete", even though they do not include a clamp. I sold one of my clamps sometime back, and actually regret it. So now, I have only one, and feel fortunate to have it. I have even considered having a local foundry set up to cast them. Still might.


----------



## Poa




----------



## BlasterStumps

Yes, sorry 'bout that. It is a 360. I didn't want t unload the cabinet it is in to look at the nameplate. : (

Thank you for the pictures with the measurements. I'm going to try to cut one out of a big piece of aluminum. If I get something to work, I will share a pic.

Thank you Poa.


----------



## Poa

Very simple device. You could probably make something out of hardwood with very little effort. It could even simply slip on, around the spine, from the toe end of the plate, and simply rest against the saw handle.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Turns out my mitre box is a 360A. : ) Pretty late model I think.

Anyway, thanks to Poa, I got a trip clamp made for the 6" saw. I changed my plan and made one out of a bolt instead of the aluminum. Next time, I might use a little larger dia. bolt. But it works great. I'm happy, happy.

Now that I have a pattern that I know works, making a couple more should be a snap.

Thanks again Poa. 
Mike


----------



## Poa

Yeah…the "A"s were the last of the mohicans, I believe. Least wise, for this configuration Stanley mitre box.

And in regards to the comments about that Langdon, above, that Don Broussard just acquired…

Coincidentally, recieved this bit of history in the mail today….


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just saw this post. I was thinking the same thing about using a piece of hardwood to make one out of. Your idea of a slip on is great.
Mike


> Very simple device. You could probably make something out of hardwood with very little effort. It could even simply slip on, around the spine, from the toe end of the plate, and simply rest against the saw handle.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## DonBroussard

Poa - Thanks for the parts list and diagram. I'll print them up and add to the literature.

I lightly sanded the badge While there is no model name indicated, I did see the the earliest patent date of the three on the badge is August 6, 1895, and the latest patent date is September 28, 1909. Are those patent dates consistent with a Model 74?

Edited to add photo:


----------



## DLK

What does it say in the No. space after Size 2 ?


----------



## DonBroussard

> What does it say in the No. space after Size 2 ?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Just an empty space, DonK.

As an aside, I see you're from Holland, MI. Did you know Chuck van der Kolk?


----------



## DLK

I have just moved to Holland.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









About the main thing that changes between the 74 and the 75…is the length of the saw..









The # 75 had a 30" long saw…the 74 had a 28" long saw…


----------



## DLK

That is correct Bandit.


----------



## JethroBodean

OK, looking at the old catalogs a size 2 would be a 71, 72 or 73, depending on saw size. (71:22×4, 72:24×4, 73:26×4)

The 74 and 75 should have a size of 2 1/2 and use 28×5 and 30×5 saws.

Edit: Don it just occurred to me that if your badge is empty (blank) in the space after No, then I bet your box was originally sold without a saw. In the catalog, under the "boxes without saws" section, they show sizes 1, 2 and 2 1/2 but those boxes are not showing an No.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Jeff. Good info.


----------



## BobLeistner

I just got a stanley miter box that I believe is a 24_? When did they start putting the nameplate on them? This one has no trace anywhere of a label. It has 4 1904 patent dates. Came with it's original saw and the trip clamp for a whopping $19.82.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I likes to see pictures : )
Mike


----------



## Poa

Bob Leistner….

The stanley no.s are actually a code. A No. 246 would be a second generation frame, (2), with a 4" plate, (4), that is 26" long, (6). So to figure out your box's correct model number, if you are confident you have the original saw, simply measure the length of the saw plate, (including the portion in the handle), and that will provide you with the last number. The no. 2 frames were offered for saw plates sized 4×20, (no.240), 4×24, (no.244), 4×26, (no.246), and 5×28, (no.258). I don't think a no. 260 was offered, although I may be wrong. I think the box for a 6" saw plate was not offered until the advent of the 3rd generation frame, (the no. 360). Again, could be wrong.


----------



## BobLeistner

Thank you, for decoding the numbers. It is a 258, I am reasonably sure(the saw is original) as it had a layer of surface rust on everything except the saw where it went through the guides. Under the guides it was like brand new. I am not the best at posting pictures and haven't tried on here. I don't carry a cell phone. I will give it a shot perhaps this evening. After reading this post for a while, I remembered that I had another (#4) miter box in the rathole and drug it out. Turns out it is an early Langdon Improved Miter Box. I am missing three parts to making it complete and usable. I owe another Thank you for the help to identify it. I should be able to make it a working box and save it for it's next caretaker.


----------



## Poa

Bob…the height measurment on a backsaw or mitre box saw is from the toothline to the BOTTOM of the spine. You may already know that, just thought I would clarify.


----------



## BobLeistner

Yes , I realize that, and have 4 13/16" of saw plate.I have been "accumulating" woodworking tools for a good 25 years now. Every now and then I will pick up a new find, but it is more difficult now that folks think they are gold. I have been stashing it all away until I can perhaps retire and spend my days restoring all the ones that can be. Using them in actual woodworking is fun also. I am still curious as to the label issue and if maybe the older ones did not have the brass ID plate on them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have an early 358 that I showed some pictures of recently that has no ID plate. I posted about it because I didn't know what it was. But, the guys on here knew right away. Apparently some of the early MBs did not have plates.
Mike


----------



## JethroBodean

I'm going to take issue with a couple of POA's points. Now understand that the bulk of my mitre box 'knowledge" comes from PDFs of old tool catalogs and information gleaned from various online forums. I have no issue with being told I'm wrong or an idiot! ;-)

1) The term 'generation' in reference to the Stanley frames. The No 2, No 3 and No 4 are simply three different sizes of the same generation. The 1900 Stanley catalog shows that all three sizes were available. I might accept "2nd generation" when referring to the No 2, No 3 and No 4 frames if you consider the Traut frame as the "1st Generation".

2) I don't believe a '258' box was ever offered by Stanley. All of the Catalogs that I have suggest that only a 4" saw, with lengths of 20-26", were offered with the No. 2 frame. So I'm curious POA, have you actually seen a box marked 258?

Bob - You also asked about the Name Plates. I can tell you that my earliest 358, with a last patent date of 09, has a brass name plate on the right side of the frame. But I understand from others that boxes with a last patent date of 04 did not have a brass plate. One of those owners did have the remnants of a paper label still stuck to the back of his box.

The image below is from the 1900 catalog.









I just realized this cannot be the 1900 catalog, the 'hangers' are wrong. I must have named my PDF incorrectly. I'm now guessing the image is from the 1908 catalog. The price matches both the 1907 & the 1909 catalogs.


----------



## Poa

My assumed knowledge is not written in stone. I try to give accurate info, but of course, I am not infallible. And no, I do not believe I have ever seen a badged No. 258. However, your reference to varying sizes, regarding the No. 2 and No. 3 frames interests me. Rather than size of the box or table, I think it may have more to do with the length of the swingarm, and whether it has one, or two, forward mounting positions for the guide posts. I do know, in my resorations, that the table size of a 246 is no different than the table size of a 346. Much about these boxes is inexplicable. And yes, I do consider the Traut boxes as the first generation frames. I am wracking my memory in trying to recall if I have ever seen an early unbadged box with the 5" guide castings, and can't recall. If in fact such boxes exist, I would consider them as being No. 258s.


----------



## BobLeistner

If you look up at Smitty's photo, it shows a "Frame#3". I thought that was where the first number in "358" came from. The 4,5,6 from the saw plate sounds reasonable. Then the 6,8,0 from the length of the saw plate makes sense too. I thought maybe the Disston medallion would assure me of it's originality to the box, but Disston used the same medallion for 20 years at that point in time. With the back of the saw marred for the stop clamp and it being there, I think I can safely assume they have been together from the start. For me most of this is a curiosity as I have no real interest in selling tools, just using and maintaining them. If somehow it helps one of you guys connecting the dots, that is a plus. I will try to take photos but I'm not promising I'll figure out the posting business. I'll gladly take all the measurements you wish to have. I will look for the telltale "shadow" of a paper label as well.


----------



## JethroBodean

Thanks Bob, POA and I are just Mitre Box detail nerds. Forever trying to one up each other.

POA - I admit I have never actually measured and compared the dimensions of my Stanley Boxes (I don't actually have a #4 frame). I'll be breaking out the tape tonight, that's for sure. However in the old catalogs I have noticed that in the parts list there are different prices for each of the frames. I guess my assumption had always been that each frame must be slightly bigger and therefore a little more costly to manufacture.

According to the 1907 catalog, frame prices were:
No 2 - $2.50
No 3 - $3.20
No 4 - $4.65

In 1907, I'm going to be real ticked off if I ordered a #4 frame than later found out I could have ordered a No 2 frame for $2.15 less, because the No 2 and No 4 were really the same!


----------



## bandit571

From the for what it is worth file ( had a 358, until I sold it to Stumpy Knubs)









Stamped name plate..









3 bolts ( front guide set)









Front guide set..









Torn down, while I was rehabbing. 









Bottom of the guide post..









Feet details….









Just to compare..this is a Stanley 2246









Been using it to cut down longer stuff..









And, it has been getting a work-out. Been using that Langdon #75 for small chores, as the parts fit the area a little better…


----------



## Poa

The differences may have more to do with swingarm details than they do with sizes…..


----------



## Poa

Forgot to mention. Recently found out that the unbadged early boxes WERE in fact badged. But it was a paper label, on the back of the fence. The only survivors I have seen pictures of were mere remnants, rather than complete labels.


----------



## JethroBodean

I can't decide if I just want to brag or I'm being a real mitre box geek. Probably a lot of both. I've had a very fruitful few weeks lately, snagging 4 boxes.

First was a Stanley 358 with a saw that is correct to be original. Very clean and very complete, missing only the trip, one length stop rod and the length stop coupler. It was originally owned by the seller's father. It pre-dates the Sweatheart Era, last patent date on the quadrant is from 1912










Then the next day I stumbled upon a GP All-Steel for a 4" saw at Goodwill for a whopping $12.99. Since there wasn't a saw let's say it's a No 1002 and I'd guess it is probably from the mid 20s. It is missing the Length Stop attachment and the Molding Holder for the 'v' tool guides. Somebody was over zealous with the black paint on a previous rehab.










Take a look at these, they were in the 'v' tool guides of the GP, anybody know what they actually are?









Next was a box listed in facebook that seller described as a Unknown Box by a Kelso Washington Manufacture. It turnout out to be a Traut, with user manufactured legs made of bent flat bar steel. It came with a beautiful Disston 4×26 that based on the medallion probably came from the 1890s.










And finally an early Stanley 2246, that looks to be in fabulous condition and thus far seems to be complete with everything including the saw.










It's been a good month or so. And I am a very happy and satisfied camper.


----------



## theoldfart

*Take a look at these, they were in the 'v' tool guides of the GP, anybody know what they actually are?*

Jeff, I think those are a user made stops. It looks like the bent arms would fit into the holes adjacent to the thumb screws. I'm still looking for the 4" box so if your looking to unload let me know. I have the 5" and 6" boxes.

Great snags. You need to get yourself a shirt to celebrate.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kevin - I think I do need one of those shirts!

The bent rods do fit in a hole near the thumb screws, but all they can do is swing around. There really isn't any ability to adjust the stop position with those. Also, once they are in the V slots, the rods bottom out right away.

I have 2 other 4" GP, but one does not have any saw guides. The other has Langdon saw guides, which I did not realize until months later.


----------



## Poa

I think those odd v groove fixtures are home made stock rests.


----------



## Poa

I have never ran across a 4" GP. Have a complete 5", and a 6". Also a couple near complete 6" inchers.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have finally found some nice Mitre saws so I'm thinking yard sale to cut the herd down a little so I will have room for them. I had to fashion a temporary holding spot for three that I had no room for in the till. Sad addiction, huh?


----------



## Poa

I just purchased another No. 346 Stanley, complete with both stock rests, and all the cut stop components. No saw. I imagine it'll show up late next week, or early the following week. I am willing to flip it, 100 bucks plus shipping. It needs restoration. If it doesn't easily flip, it'll get restored. Frankly, locating boxes that are 100 percent complete is not common place. If missing the usual components, namely the stock rests and the cut stop components, it can cost more to complete a box than it would have to buy a complete box in the first place. So, anyway, if anyone is looking for a No. 346, I now have two I'm offering. An "as found", as well as a restored wartime era no. 346 box. I will post pics of the unrestored box as soon as I recieve it. But heres the restored box, including its original saw.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow, Poa, If the one in the picture is the one you want $100 for, it looks to be a good one. Couldn't take much to put it to work. Someone will get a nice tool there.

I just talked with a feller on a 358, frame 3, Sweetheart era box. I should receive it in a couple work days next week if all goes to plan. I am excited. I even made a saw trip for my Stanley/Disston Sweetheart saw I am planning to use with it. 
Mike


----------



## Poa

No Mike….I'm asking 100 for the unrestored box, that is currently in transit to me. The box in the pic is restored, and currently in an antique mall for 200. I would probably let it go cheaper, of course, to an LJ buyer.

Also of interest, another box one its way to me…

Its an A.D. Hughes "double cut mitre box". In other words, it will cut compound mitres. Note sure yet how complete it is. Although I do know it is missing its hold down clamp.


----------



## Poa

Also, Mike, depending on whether or not your 358 is early SW, or later, it may or may not have bearing guide castings. Let me know if you need bearing castings. If the box is to be a user, I recommend the switch.

Great job on the the trip clamp, BTW.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It has the name plate on the right side end. I don't know if that was an early or later make. I suspect early. Thanks, I will keep that in mind. 
Mike

Edit: I don't see any indication of the saw guides having bearings. I have bearing style in my 360A and the guides look way different than the older 358 so no bearings most likely. We'll have to see but I may keep my Wards 358 clone box for my user and just admire and play on the Stanley 358 : ) I have wanted a Sweetheart 358 for some time and now I just might have one on the way. Hopefully.


----------



## theoldfart

POA, I'd be interested in your impressions of the Hughs. I passed up one on the 'Bay a few years ago since I didn't collect mitre boxes!


----------



## Poa

Right on, Kevin. When I get it, I'll post pics and my opinions and observations. I suspect it will be somewhat anti-climactic, though, because, like I said, it is surely missing its hold down clamp, and it is one of those boxes that the odds of ever making it complete are pretty danged slim.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kevin - Speaking of not collecting Mitre Boxes…I couldn't resist, at your suggestion I bought a shirt.


----------



## theoldfart

Great. I still need to post a pic of me in front of my " non collected" mitre boxes.


----------



## Poa

Well, Kevin, I must admit, its pretty hard for me to claim I'm not a collector now that I have a number of boxes waiting for restoration, and I rationalize the delay by thinking "No hurry, I don't wanna sell those boxes anyway".


----------



## theoldfart

Exactly


----------



## theoldfart

Now if we could come up with a Dorn i'd Be quite happy.


----------



## JethroBodean

A Dorn would be a prize indeed, but I'm also hoping to come across a Kawalle someday.



















Photos shameless stolen from the internet,


----------



## theoldfart

That's a new one to me. What intrigues me about the Dorn is the ability to do compound mitres.


----------



## theoldfart

For those of you that DO NOT collect mitre boxes, the club uniform










had to coax the bald model to turn around










If need to investigate, go here

Jeff, pic?


----------



## summerfi

So, Kevin, for someone who DOES collect miter boxes, what would you say is the minimum number they should have? To be a real collector that is. Or is it not a number, but rather a state of mind? Asking for someone who just bought a miter box.


----------



## JADobson

Bandit - that orange thing you posted back in June - I didn't see anyone else reply. I have one very similar. It is a craftsman. Piece of junk IMHO.


----------



## bandit571

Saw that came with this was a Popular Mechanics saw. 









Might do for a job-site saw…









Will never replace my Langdon 75, nor the Stanley No. 2246…..


----------



## bandit571

With a Millers Falls 5×30 saw….has a triangle decal on the handle.


----------



## Poa

Good score, Bandit. Seems it was a mitre box day for both of us. Received the A.D.Hughes "Double Cut Mitre Box" today. Interesting box, cuts compound mitres. When I get a chance, I'll fo a full write up on it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ That looks very, very interesting. The dbl bevel boxes are fascinating to me, looking forward to more detail when you have it ready!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Poa, I bet you could make a hold down easily enough out of a block of aluminum or have one cut out at a metal fab shop.


----------



## jdw101

My dream box is a langdon 15 1/2 or 16. Good luck though I have never found one for sale.


----------



## theoldfart

The 'Bay has two 15 1/2's 800+ and 1,200 or so and a 16 1/2 also for 1,200 or so. How can you loose! I assume you meant 16 1/2 and not 16.

Check in with POA now and then, he has a nose for finding these things.

Also keep an eye out for a Goodell Pratt 1625, same size as the Langdon 15 1/2


----------



## Poa

Hey…wataya talkin' about, JDW? They can be had. By golly, 3 of them have gone through Jim Bode's high end site this past year. All ya gotta do is pony up around 600 bucks or so.

He's had 2 that are real oddballs. Only three preset indents, 90°, and left and right 45°s. Most have 9 indents. And Kevin is right, keep your eyes peeled for the Pratt 1625. Although, they take the same size saw as the 15 1/2, their frames are a bit larger than the 15 1/2. However, other than the one Kevin has, and the one I have, I have yet to see any others. They might even be rarer than the small Langdons.

Bode currently has a 15 1/2 for sale, with a saw. 595, shipped. However, I think if a guy is patient, and is dilligent about watching ebay, eventually you can land one for under 400.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/rare-baby-langdon-no-16-1-2-mitre-box-with-disston-saw-81256


----------



## theoldfart

Nice staging Jon. Should we tell him that both of mine were $30 ea? 

Sooner or later something interesting and bargained priced come by. Just not here in NorCal.


----------



## Poa

I don't even like it when you tell me whatcha paid for 'em, Kevin. There oughta be a law!! And don't forget, here in Central Cal, the picking ain't all that hot, either. But, once in a while…..


----------



## bandit571

I seem to recall this was $15 at a garage sale last year..









WITH stand, mind you…Langdon ACME 2-1/2 No. 75









And have been using it ever since….it is the same saw I posted a little bit ago….

The Stanley #358? with 4 saws…was $25….

I wound up selling it, as I didn't have the room for two HUGE mitersaws….


----------



## CL810

I'm on the road and came across this.









Much heavier than my 246. No name plate. Curious about the manufacturer and the 'v' blocks on each end. Seems like overkill if they are dowel holder.


----------



## Poa

Goodell Pratt "All Steel".


----------



## theoldfart

Same vintage as my two but the plates look user made to me. Both of mine have corrugated bed plates. If that saw is a six incher then worth the price.


----------



## JethroBodean

As is shown in Poa's picture, those V grooves are to hold a molding holder and a length stop. The V groove was patented in 1924. Before that they had a flat bottom.



















From the 1922 GP Tool Catalog:
Angle more acute than 45 degrees are obtained by an extra angle attachment fastened to the left side of the box. This attachment can also be used as a molding holder. A length gauge is fastened to the right side of the box. This can be quickly set in position for cutting duplicate pieces of any length up to 20 inches. Both of these attachments can be removed or replaced by means of four screws


----------



## theoldfart

Illustration of Jeffs post



















Hardest one to find is the post, also the easiest one to fabricate.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys! Wealth of knowledge here. Glad I didn't come across this back home or I'd have 4 boxes!


----------



## Poa

Only 4??? Gads man, get with the program!


----------



## Poa

Only 4??? Gads man, get with the program!

And heres the earlier style end block…


----------



## Poa

Johnwod….please don't spam this group. Its for mitre box users and collectors, not a venue for advertising.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Poa scribes: "And heres the earlier style end block…" 
How old is that? Is that Goodell?
Mike


----------



## Poa

Yes Mike, its a GP. Thats the style of the pre 1924 end blocks.


----------



## CL810

I am so unworthy… :-(



> Only 4??? Gads man, get with the program!
> 
> - Poa


----------



## regular

I have just restored a stanley 246. I am looking for a single saw guide bar, bar coupling, and the two bar set screws that thread in to the rear of the cast feet. Does anyone have or know where I can get this parts?


----------



## Poa

Not knowing your nomenclature, I'm not real clear on what you are looking for. I assume, the two knurled leveling screws, (bar set screws?). And, one of the guide castings and the plate that connects the two. Or…"bar coupling" meaning the bar that connects the two guide post assemblies? Let me know, I probably can supply the parts it would help if you posted pics of the box, to establish vintage.


----------



## JethroBodean

Maybe you all already know this, but I just figured out that the Traut Mitre Box is really just the Stanley No.50.

No; not the No.50 from the 1950s & beyond. I had always thought because it had been patented by Justus A. Traut, that he had originally sold the boxes under his own name. Wrong! The Traut Mitre Box Patent (No. 770,834) was done for Stanley: JUSTUS A TRAUT, OF NEW BRITAIN, CONNECTICUT, ASSIGNOR TO THE STANLEY RULE & LEVEL COMPANY, OF NEW BRITAIN, CONNECTICUT, A CORPORATION OF CONNECTICUT.

It is the only mitre box shown in the 1892 Tool Catalog. It shows as the 'Improved Mitre Box'; the '50' is the box only and the '60' is the box with a 20" back saw.

Image from 1892 catalog:









The 1907 catalog advertises two different Mitre Boxes. The 'Stanley Mitre Boxes' which consist of the familiar 240, 242, 244, 246, 346, 358 and 460 models. As well as the aforementioned 'Improved Mitre Box' looking virtually identical to the listing the 1892 catalog. Even the prices haven't changed.
Image from 1907 catalog:









By 1915, the catalog still shows the 'Stanley Mitre Boxes', however the 'Improved Miter Box' now shows up as 'Stanley "Victor" Mitre Box' and the image no longer shows the 50, but rather the 50 1/2. Notice that the quadrant no longer has the indexing holes coming all the way through the top. However if you read the description and look at the prices you'll see that the 50 is still available. The only difference between the 50 and the 50 1/2 is the actual saw guides. The 50 still uses the roller saw guides but the 50 1/2 uses plates as the guides.
Image from 1915 catalog:


















Just something that made me go Hmmmmmm!


----------



## RWE

Interesting history. I have a 501/2 and never gave it much consideration. I use a 358 that I got from Jon and with such a small shop, I never had a location for a second one, so I never refurbed the 50 1/2. I got it from a neighbor who moved and did not want the contents of the old shop behind his house, so it was the catalyst that got me started on mitre boxes. I appreciate the history. Maybe I will get ambitious and do a refurb on the 50 1/2.


----------



## regular

See the attached picture for definitions of my made up terms.











> Not knowing your nomenclature, I m not real clear on what you are looking for. I assume, the two knurled leveling screws, (bar set screws?). And, one of the guide castings and the plate that connects the two. Or…"bar coupling" meaning the bar that connects the two guide post assemblies? Let me know, I probably can supply the parts it would help if you posted pics of the box, to establish vintage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


----------



## Poa

Kinda fun, ain't it, Jeff? But do not make the mistake I was making. I was finding out stuff, but not writing it down, figuring memory would serve, and sooner or later I'd drag it out of my skull, and write it down. Trouble is, the more boxes you examine, restore, research, and collect, the more info you amass, and, of course, the more stuff you forget. Write it down, man. Make a file. Maybe between all of us, someday we can actually nail these Stanleys down to an accurate and informative type study.


----------



## Poa

Regular…..

As far as the "extension bar" goes, it is just 5/16" solid rod, that can be bought at H. Depot or most any hdwr. store. I suggest you do that, instead of paying shipping and all on an actual stanley replacement.

The couplings are hard to come by, and currently I do not have one I am willing to part with, as I am one short of completing the 4 boxes I currently have under restoration.

The two screws I do have, and if you email me your address, I'll get 'em off to you.

[email protected]


----------



## FrankonThetis

This was in a local antique store today. Any thoughts on who made this miter box? Heavy, steel construction, no saw and appears to be missing the top of the arm that would hold the saw. Indents for angle settings are underneath the curved front.
Frank


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## JethroBodean

That's a Stanley 150 but it's missing the saw guide.


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## FrankonThetis

Thanks for the reply. It certainly is missing a major piece, guess that is why the $12 tag.
Frank


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## Poa

I see the guide assemblies for the 150 on ebay reasonably often. Weird that the frame and guide assemblies become separated and lost.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well the guy that said he was going to sell me a Stanley SW era 358 disappeared on me. I have no idea what was up with that. What a bummer. 
Last night, I was thumbing thru the CL ads on tools and saw a late model Stanley mitre box that had just been posted. I sent a reply and asked the seller to call me. This morning after church, I met up with the seller about a half mile from my house and liked what I saw of the mitre box so I brought it home. It is not what I have been searching for but, after looking it over, I think it is more. This one is a complete 358A with original Stanley saw. Even has the trip clamp for the saw. 
Looks good but the saw will take a little cleaning up. It cuts well enough but it has some rust spots here and there on one side. As it is though, it works silky smooth.
Until a SW era box comes my way, this will be the 358 for me. Can't complain though.


----------



## theoldfart

It does look to be in great shape, nice score.


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## Poa

Good score. Boxes that are 100% complete, with the trip clamp, ard extremely hard to find. But I know what you mean about a SW era box. Theres just something about 'em. I am currently restoring a SW No. 240, with an amazing original atkins/stanley saw. Its the first No. 240 I have come across, and was thrilled at its condition. When its finished, I'll post it here.


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## bandit571

Small box for POA to look at…









Stanley #2246….was THAT kind of a day.


----------



## Poa

Thats a nice one too, Bandit. Kinda addicting, ain't they?

Heres the saw that goes with the 240 I'm restoring. Even has the original bluing on the spine. 4×20, of course. Plate is actually 3-7/8", so obviously its seen some sharpening. Had to pull the plate out of the spine a bit at the toe, because it measured 3-3/4" there. But the toothline is straight, properly set, and the saw is sticky sharp. Don't run across 'em too often this nice.


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## theoldfart

Jon, nice saw.


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the kind words on the mitre box. Once I clean up the saw, I am planning to fit this mitre box to my mitre box station like I have already done with the Wards Master clone of the 2358. I want to be able to switch them out if need be I have the Stanley 360A that I showed a picture of prior. It is a monster so I don't use it. I keep it in a cabinet. This 358A that I just found is just the right size for my liking. I could even put the 6" saw from the 360A in it if I needed to I believe. I don't remember who suggested it to me to change the saw guides out for the roller style but now I see why. The roller saw guides on the later boxes are a nice improvement. This box also has two of the pointed screws coming thru the fences, same as the 360A has. And it has the L-shaped length stop that is held on to the back with a thumb screw, same as the 360A. For use on my mitre station, I don't need a length stop but nice to know it is there.  I just made a test cut and it is cutting square and true. I'm getting so I don't use the table saw or power mitre box near as much anymore. It is addicting, for sure.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Very nice saw POA. Can't imagine they come much nicer than that one.


----------



## JethroBodean

The last thing I need is another Stanley Mitre box, but it made me buy it. I walked into the local ReStore and suddenly this early 244, with a 24×4 Mitre Saw, started yelling my name.



















As I said it was an early box, '04 on all four of the quadrant patent dates. And the saw guides have the spring loaded, push in, latches. First one of those with working latches that I've ever laid my hands on.










The saw has a fairly strong etch.










It is missing the threaded 'washer' that goes on the bed…anybody have an extra? If not, I may have to fabricate a new one.


----------



## Poa

I have one of the bed washers. I'll look for it in the morning. Great find. I have never seen a set of fully intact and working spring loaded saw hangers.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found this Stanley 60 mitre box today. Had to splurge and give three buck fifty for it. No saw with it. Now that I have it cleaned and adjusted, I really like it. Very nice smaller mitre box.

Before:









After:


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Looks like a nice, functional box to me. Congrats!


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks Smitty,
It had been somewhere where there was texturing going on and got splattered. It came off fairly easy. I removed the thick top that someone had stuck on it and made a new board out of my newly found knotty alder. I had to spend a few minutes adjusting the uprights. Surprised that someone hadn't done that before as it was out quite a bit. I have it cutting square and true now. This is the third 60 in my shop and this one just gives me that feeling when I use it that it is going to be a new favorite. I will have to cut in the new top now. : )
Mike


----------



## DanKrager

My 60 is one I bought new and now needs refurbishing. A new saw handle would make it look better too. Someday….

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

It's amazing how out of whack some of the used mitre boxes get.


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## BlasterStumps

JethroBodean, I'm sitting here admiring that mitre saw handle you took such a nice picture of. That handle is nice, nice. Please post more pictures of it. There is something about it… just real pretty,


----------



## Mr_Pink

Here's a 60 I just reassembled after cleaning. I repainted the feet because one of them looked like it had been recovered from a sunken galleon, but otherwise the body and saw required relatively little cleaning.

Most of my time with this thing has been spent either reshaping the saw's handle to resemble a saw handle or sharpening the saw.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Oh wow Mr_Pink, that looks very nice. Also, the mitre box looks like a match to my recent find. Good job. 
Mike


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## Poa

Anyone else having trouble accessing? My email notifications of new posts contain a link that is dead. Ol fart sent me a working link. Weird. Its been quite a few days since I could get access.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I run a Mac out in our living room that has Chrome on it and Safari. I haven't been able to access the forums since about three days ago on that computer when Chrome sent out their latest interface update. I think my ad blocker is not liked. I'm on a PC in the office and it will get on with Chrome. I think it has Ublock on it. If I don't run an ad blocker on the Mac it won't hardly keep up with the demand placed on it by all the ads trying to run.
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

I have a MacBook Pro and Safari and I had a number of LJ crashes a few days ago. It's been pretty good for the last day or two.


----------



## Mr_Pink

Thanks, Mike.

If there's a plus side to the blocky saw handles of that era, it's that they're easy to shape into whatever you like. The manufacturer cut a kerf, drilled a few holes and stuck the handle blank on a saw.


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## BlasterStumps

Mr_Pink, I thought since you have a 60 mitre box, that you might like to see a pic of the late model 60 that I have. It is different in that it has squared off corners on the fences and it has bosses on the rear that could be drilled for moulding stop rods. It also has bosses on each end, what for I have no clue. The picture doesn't really show the true color of it but when next to my other two, it looks more light blue. 
Mike


----------



## Mr_Pink

It's interesting that they would manufacture the boxes to facilitate a modification like that.

For what it's worth, Krylon's ColorMaxx gloss navy blue was an excellent match for the paint on my miter box. From across the room, the feet don't look like they were repainted.


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks for the info on the paint color. I might get a can and respray the feet on my 60. They need some redo. 
Mike


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## BlasterStumps

A couple weeks ago, I found that late model Stanley 358 mitre box with the (warranted superior) saw that needed some work. I took some time yesterday to clean the saw and made a new cherry handle for it. I tried it out in my Wards Master box. Works quite nice.


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## BobLeistner

It looks like you have the hand position lower, closer to the tooth line. Is that the way the original was ? I've never seen one that low but it looks like it would be better if using the box on a higher bench.


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## BlasterStumps

yes, it's about 1/2" lower. My mitre box on this station is high enough with the risers that I took that into consideration when hanging the handle. I used the same holes in the saw plate though. I patterned the handle after a disston I have. I put the spine back on the plate as close as possible to the original position it was at. looks a little radical, I must admit.


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## Poa

Bob…you are right, I hadn't noticed that about the spine being so far out of the handle. I gotta conclude that it is not the original handle that was on that plate, or, that it was moved down purposely, which seems unlikely.


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## Poa

Ah…Mike, that explains it. Bingo.


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## BlasterStumps

My mitre saw station has been in the works for a while now but, today finally, I have both mitre boxes set up to quick interchange on it. I would like to have one saw a little more aggressive in it's cutting than the saw for the other box. I will have to see how that works out. : ) 
I now have the late model 358 set up and the saw sharpened. That saw is a pleasure to use with the 358. Slides effortlessly and with very little noise. It's a keeper me thinks. 
After all this, it might be time to give the shop a clean. : )


















Last week, I made a tabletop disc sander out of a 3/4 hp 1725 rpm motor that I bought at a yard sale. 








I have it set up so that I can plug the hose from my vac into the right side of the box under the disc. The table and front of the box can be removed easily for changing the sanding disc. 
That sure made making this last saw handle a lot nicer. I'm glad I took the time to make it.


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## BobLeistner

If you need a reason to collect all the old handsaws made, look at the different hand positions each saw has. It makes a difference when using them and your success as much as tooth type and TPI numbers. I really like your miter station, nice job.


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## BlasterStumps

Funny you should mention that part about the hand positions on the saws. The saw I have for the 358 mitre box sort of grabbed or stuck when sawing on the Wards Master mitre box but doesn't at all on the 358. I am happy happy with the combination of the 358 and the saw I fixed for it. Really sweet to saw with. I attribute the difference in how the saw works on the two mitre boxes to the hang of the handle.


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## bandit571

Random saw picture…









Cutting some Ash 1×6…


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## Trakem2

Blaster, have you had any problems with the extension wings on your miter saw station sagging? I tried building a similar setup a couple of years ago, but every time I put the extensions up they wanted to sag. Even tried a couple of different designs for wing supports but to no avail.


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## BlasterStumps

yes, but the plywood I used is the reason why. I haven't kept the wings in the horizontal position more than a few hours but both wings are cupped. Plywood was not stable. If I have a choice, I won't use that same plywood for any more projects. 


> Blaster, have you had any problems with the extension wings on your miter saw station sagging? I tried building a similar setup a couple of years ago, but every time I put the extensions up they wanted to sag. Even tried a couple of different designs for wing supports but to no avail.
> 
> - Trakem2


----------



## DLK

If you laminate two sheets of plywood in the opposite directions of cupping i.e. () then the forces will cancel and there will be no problem. I typically cut 5 ply 1/2 AC plywood in half (or quarters) and laminate so that the smooth side is on the outside to get 10 ply 1 inch thick. Cheaper then buying baltic/Russian plywood, and perhaps almost as good.


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## theoldfart

Mitre box IQ test. What would you do to improve the performance of this box?

Realy







US!-1:rk:9f:0


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## DLK

Does it come with all the accessories?


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## RWE

I think he means that you should divide the pair. The posts I mean.


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## Johnny7

What?-I didn't notice a miter box.


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## BobLeistner

The box that Old Fart showed is interesting.
It has the same 4 patents on it as mine. 
What is interesting about that is mine has the metal label and the provisions for the stop rods. 
Mine does not have the hold down plate mounted in the right bed either. 
So that must be a time of major revisions in these boxes.
Or, I'm just full of it : )


----------



## JethroBodean

> Mitre box IQ test. What would you do to improve the performance of this box?
> 
> Realy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US!-1:rk:9f:0
> 
> - theoldfart


Which direction should the saw go? I'm pulling for back to front, that way you would get the maximum wavering on the cut line.


----------



## Poa

Bob…the mitre box that Kevin showed has the very rare double thruster front guide posts. They are necessary when employing the rear twin bubble side by side saw guides, as pictured.


----------



## theoldfart

Johnny and POA for the win. I mean really, what's so great about fantastic cleavage?

Jon, I almost spit out a good glass of Rioja reading your response!


----------



## theoldfart

Jethro, watch mitre boxes on the 'Bay. You'd be surprised at how many have the saw backwards.


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## JethroBodean

Kevin - I know what you mean. I've laughed the sellers claiming to be a tool expert with pictures of saw in backwards. Truth be told, that's the source of my comment.

Here is one I really like that's on the bay right now.


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## TedT2

Ok….so I bought my first mitre box at an auction today and I can't find anything to identify it. It has a Warranted Superior saw. Any help would be awesome.


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## Poa

Looks like it might be a Millers Falls No. 1118. Not sure.


----------



## JethroBodean

Ted - Definitely a Millers Falls, I'll trust POA on the model number. A lot of the heritage of that box is from the Goodell-Pratt All Steel, specifically the swing arm, the gib and the saw guides. The good folks over at BadAxe have made available a PDF of an old Miller Falls Instructions pamphlet that I suspect you'd find helpful and informative.


----------



## TedT2

Thank you. Where should I look to see if there are any identifying marks?


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## BlasterStumps

What do you think, should I jump on it? : )

https://denver.craigslist.org/atq/d/stanley-straight-angle-miter/6717056627.html


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## Poa

Absolutely not. Missing way too much for that price.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow… Talk about unscrupulous seller.


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## Poa

Ted…doubtful you'll find any if they aren't obvious. You might look closely at the top sides of the guide post heads, the Pratts were often marked there.


----------



## Mosquito

> What do you think, should I jump on it? : )
> 
> https://denver.craigslist.org/atq/d/stanley-straight-angle-miter/6717056627.html
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I guess if you don't know how they're supposed to work, it works as it should lol


----------



## theoldfart

Well Blaster, at least the saw is going the right direction. Also a good way to reduce friction getting rid of the posts!

The seller is either clueless or worse, unscrupulous.


----------



## Poa

Mike…sorry man…shoulda known you knew better. But you wouldn't believe the questions I am asked about mitre boxes these days. So I guess I am just inured to it.


----------



## TedT2

> Ted…doubtful you ll find any if they aren t obvious. You might look closely at the top sides of the guide post heads, the Pratts were often marked there.
> 
> - Poa


Thank you. I will try to spend some more time looking….haven't had much of an opportunity. Is it normal for the saw to be Warranted Superior? Or is it mismatched?


----------



## JethroBodean

I wandered into my local restore tonight, it's been a while since I've been there. I walked back to tools, and there on top shelf (over my head at 6'1") I see the arch of a Stanley 150. I reach up, pull it down and discovered a green $10.00 price tag. You know that box never left my hand as I looked some more. I found nothing else needing a new home in my shop. I walked over to the register, pulled out my last 10 dollars and was surprised when the lady pushed $5 back my way. Turns out that green was the half off color. I just smiled and waved, smiled and waved.










It is missing the length stop, the thumb screw that tensions the saw guide and the spring behind one of the saw guides. But all in all, it's in nice condition. And I just happen to have an extra saw or two just waiting to be matched up to a box. ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Very nice find Jethro! I've been using my Wards Master that is a clone from the Stanley 150 and I like it a lot. Mine didn't come with the roller on the back but I made one and installed it. Small mitre boxes like the 150 are handy to have. Congrats on a good find.


----------



## theoldfart

Jethro, quite the fortuitous find. I still don't have one of those.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, Jethro. I was very fortunate to find a 150 at a local flea for the princely sum of $7. It has all but the wooden roller, but that was an easy fix. I agree with Blaster, it's very handy!


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## Poa

The 150s have gone up in price exponentially these last coupla years. The first one I got was impossible to tune because it was missing that spring that tensions the guides. Since, I have found a couple more missing that spring, which is simply a small piece of spring steel, bent in the center. I cut them out of a sacrifice putty knife I have. Quick and easy fix.


----------



## JethroBodean

I was planning to use an old saw plate to make the spring, but I like the putty knife idea. Truth be told, I do have several (more that I will admit to) 150's and a couple of the Monkey Wards versions. I will raid what original parts I can from the Monkey Wards to fix up the 150's. And then fabricate (maybe "stumble bum" is a better term) the replacement parts for the MW boxes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> ... because it was missing that spring that tensions the guides… simply a small piece of spring steel, bent in the center.
> 
> - Poa


Wait a sec… what is this sorcery of which you speak? There's supposed to be spring steel in this assy?










Can we get additional pics of this, please? I just figured the threaded portion of that thumbscrew was 'barely long enough.'


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Had no room for this one….sold it.


----------



## JethroBodean

Bandit - That is beautiful, nice job. Only objection is personal, I want the bed to be a rectangle (without the notches) as originally provided by Stanley. But I can definitely see the attraction of doing it like yours.

Smitty - Here's a picture of the spring and left saw guide that I originally took for Poa. On the back of the saw guide the is a rectangular depression where the spring sits. You can see one side the the depression in your graphics.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Gotta check that out this evening, thank you for that picture!

The deck that was on my 150 when I got it was rectangular, but had 'relief bevels' on the left and right undersides to ease access to the swivel's set screw. Was that original, or a user mod?










I've since replaced the deck but reproduced those bevels.


----------



## Poa

Smitty, in this pic you can see placement of the spring. See the very end of it peeking out? You cannot tune a 150 if that spring is missing.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Perfect. Never noticed it before, learned something new today!


----------



## JethroBodean

Smitty - I've never seen those reliefs before. I suspect those are a user mod, but really a interesting idea. But otherwise that does look like an original bed to me.

I looked at several of my PDFs of Stanley Catalogs between 1926 and 1958, none of the images show those reliefs. But I've noticed many inaccuracies in the catalog images over the years. They often used the same image even after some identifiable changes were made to the product.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'll say this: the reliefs are effective, allowing room for thumb and fingers to work the knurled bolt when it's at either end of the range of motion. And yes, that bed does have (I kept it) original looking orange paint (stain, tint, whatever). Just interesting, I guess.


----------



## bandit571

This is how it came home..









The roller was a bit chewed on..









Don't think the deck was OEM, though..









It was a tad rusty, though..


----------



## Poa

Hey…this reminds me…

If any of you have a 150 that you KNOW has the correct wooden table, please post the measurements for me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No joy!










Banding scrap to the rescue.










Restored. Thanks To the Experts in this Thread!


----------



## BlasterStumps

The spring is there on my Wards Master mitre box. I didn't realize just how delicate that little spring is. Glad you were able to fabricate one Smitty. Looks good too.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa - I've got four 150s that I believe still have the original bed. The measurements on all four are 14 1/2" x 4 1/8" x 1/2". just like with the bigger boxes, the back bottom edge is chamfered at 45%, up about half the thickness.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It might be fun to fix this box up if I can find some pieces that have gone missing. The back saw guide is all there but as the picture shows, the front saw guide is missing almost everything but the piston and the rollers and caps are missing out of it. I may have to bide my time and see if another (donor) box comes along. I have a saw for it so it would be cool to have a working 2244.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Anyone visit with Jon in the last couple days? I was hoping he would pop round to this forum but haven't seen a post since about a week ago. 
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

wrote to him a few days ago, we're watching a 16 1/2 on the Bay


----------



## donwilwol

.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> .
> 
> - Don W


Well said, Don. ;-)


----------



## JethroBodean

OK , made me laugh. Currently on EBay, "Vintage Sears Craftsman Miter Box 881.36300 With Original Saw"


----------



## theoldfart

^ Ah the infamous reversing metal mitre box


----------



## JethroBodean

With a 1/2 inch stroke! It's the claim of 'With Original Saw' that got me.


----------



## BlasterStumps

The lowly hacksaw…we ought to have a thread on hacksaws, if there isn't one already.

I have about 1/2 dozen that I have fixed up, trying to come up with one good enough to use. After all those, I finally found one that doesn't allow the blade to veer off course half way through the cut. It's a bit unusual but it works.

I've seen a couple of that late model miter box for sale as shown in Jethro's post. I wonder how well they work.


----------



## RWE

I wanted to give a "that a boy" to Jon. I emailed him back a couple of weeks ago. I was working on trying to use my 358 to cut tenon shoulders and twisted the screw head slot off on one of adjusting screws. Jon very graciously mailed me a set of replacement screws. I really appreciated the help.

I gave up on the 358 for the tenon shoulders however. I went with the Paul Sellers knife wall and chisel out the kerf technique and got better results.

If your stock is perfectly square, I believe the you could cut them just fine, but I kept coming up just a little off on the lines around the board, which I attributed to having to swap the reference face to keep the same stop block for width of cut.

Anybody out in LJ world make a practice of using a mitre box to do tenon cheeks? It works quite well on the depth stop side of things, but again it was getting a line around the tenon area that would meet perfectly. Easier with a knife and combo square. Give me hope. I may give a try again.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, I cut the tenons for my big frame saw on a All Steel mb. The stock does have to be square.


----------



## bandit571

I use the Langdon No. 75 for doing tenon shoulders….


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm working on the '50s era stanley 2244 mitre box. I tried to soak it in Evaporust but I think my solution is flat. Going to have to buy some new. Anyway, I was able to get some of the rust off the legs and the platform frame but still have the swing arm to clean up. I am on the hunt now for a couple of the roller assemblies for the front piston, the stud for the bottom of the front piston and if I get real lucky, the spring release for piston on the side of the front support. One of the rod holding screws is missing on one leg also. So lots of fun.


----------



## Poa

Mike…unfortunately, I have pretty much depleted my inventory of parts for the single post style Stanleys. I do have the leg screw, one bearing assembly, and the guide adjustment stud. Email me and we'll work something out. [email protected]


----------



## dbray55

RWE - I have used a mitre saw to cut the shoulders on tenons. If you are doing one of two, there is a lot of setup. If you are doing a dozen or so and the saw is sharp, can be very nice.


----------



## Poa

I realize this is probably like going on a snipe hunt, but, uh…here goes….

Does anyone have one, two, a dozen, or 400 of these saw spine release clamps they wanna part with?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I only have the one Stanley made spine release clamp and two that I made out of aluminum bar. Actually, I kind of prefer the aluminum ones to the original. I wish that I had tools to engrave the aluminum. I think you could make them look way cool when ornamented with the right design.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Just one, and that was a tough snipe to come by. Once saw one on a 70s-ish mitrebox at a garage sale, crappy saw included. Offered the guy $30 for the trip, he said buy the box for $60 and you can have it. Had to pass, box not worth that to me.


----------



## Poa

Danged things are hard to come by. I may have a line on one, two, or so, but not sure. Bode thinks he may have some, but he and Trish are going on vacation, so it'll be a coupla weeks at least before I find out. Apparently he doesn't wanna deal in large mitre boxes any more, so he has offered me his inventory of Stanley and Langdon parts. It'll be interesting to see what he has, and what kind of value he puts on it. I have a buyer for my No. 360, with the mint Atkins 6" x 30". But the guy doesn't wanna make the purchase unless I include my one and only release clamp. Don't wanna part with it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Within the last few months, I saw at least two instances where a 2XXX miter box was advertised with the trip clamp attached to one of the length stop rods. I tried to buy one away from the mitre box but the seller wouldn't budge. I doubt that he was aware that it wasn't for that model box.

They are out there but generally have to buy a box with it. : (

Need to make a mold so you can make a bunch of them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well, I done done it. I won an auction on a MF 7? last night. I'm guessing it is about a 1925 era model 75 but don't know yet. I have a saw that will work, I hope. I am keeping everything crossed that the mitre box doesn't get broken in the shipping and all the parts get here together. I called the seller and talked with them some to give a little guidance for packaging. I bet they loved that! Anyway, it is on it's way. Maybe some of you experts will be willing to help me ID it better when I get some pictures to post. Here are a couple that the seller had up:


----------



## theoldfart

I can't read the badge but this should help you.

https://sites.google.com/site/langdonmitreboxes/home


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for the link Kevin. I have it bookmarked on the fettling page.


----------



## Poa

Oh man…I hate it when a box is in transit. Pins and needles waiting game, it is. Looking forward to the pics. I just bought Jim Bode's inventory of loose mitre box parts. Mostly flotsom, but a few gems, judging by the pics he sent me. A couple of the saw spine trip clamps for the Stanleys, some cut stop trees, some stock rests. A few GP and Langdon height stops. A set of stock rests for the Langdons like blaster just bought, and misc screws, guides, etc. Looking forward to recieving the stuff and getting it sorted.


----------



## BrentParkin

GP height Stops!!!! Hmmmmmm. I have a small Goodall box that I have been thinking of fixing up for use. Are these the things that keep the saw hanging in the sky over the workpiece while you get set to make the cut? That is what my box seems to be missing.



> A few GP and Langdon height stops. A set of stock rests for the Langdons like blaster just bought, and misc screws, guides, etc. Looking forward to recieving the stuff and getting it sorted.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, I'm looking for the curved stops for the large Langdon Improved #16 circa 1890. If by some chance you find them let me know.


----------



## RWE

POA:

"some cut stop trees". On a 358 would those be used to set a dept of cut that would be repeatable?? I was working on doing tenon shoulder cuts a while back and having a precise way to set the dept of cut would be nice. It was kind of fussy to get the depth set, and then you would have to go back to normal depth. Do you have a link or a picture of this animal. Or am I jumping to conclusions about what a cut stop tree is?


----------



## bandit571

The "Tree" is to hold the rods…..more of a length stop..2 rods, one into the box connects to a coupler









The tree connect to this coupler for the longer cuts, tree holds a second rod that rests on the deck of the mitre box, and controls how much wood is between the saw and the stop..









The brass collar without the spring is the one you set for depth of cut…


----------



## Poa

Unfortunately, no curved stops, Kevin.

Brian…on the Pratts, there is a small barrel that incloses a spring loaded pin. This screws into the guide post, and engages a slot in the guide that holds the guide in its up position. I think there are two or three of them in this batch of parts. Is that what you are missing?


----------



## BrentParkin

Poa, did you mean me (Brent) or did I miss a Brian chiming in. LOL

Anyhow, I think those are the parts we are talking about. You can see a bunch of pictures of my mitre box on page 49 of this thread. But none show the side where these would screw in. I can only describe it as having an open hole on the side much like the picture above. I would go take a picture, but I am 250km away from it right now and won't be able to look until next week when I am in the shop.

I have not been able to figure out what model this box is either. It's not a big box by any measure.










But mine does look similar to your photo above. But for me it is just a hole with chamfered edges doing nothing at the moment.

Do you think we are talking the same thing?

Brent



> Unfortunately, no curved stops, Kevin.
> 
> Brian…on the Pratts, there is a small barrel that incloses a spring loaded pin. This screws into the guide post, and engages a slot in the guide that holds the guide in its up position. I think there are two or three of them in this batch of parts. Is that what you are missing?
> 
> - Poa


----------



## BlasterStumps

Brent, you might already know this, but there is a MF 1625 all steel box that looks similar to the one you show. Not sure that is what your box is though because I don't know how big your box is. Goodell Pratt also made an all steel. What does your box measure between the uprights? The MF 1625 was made for a 16", 2-1/2" saw. The slotted bed of your box is different than the pictured 1625 that I found online. Looking at the saw guides your box has, I'm guessing it is not too old.


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## Poa

Brent's box looks like a Pratt No. 1118. Definitely not a No.1625. Heres a No. 1625.


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## Poa

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-goodell-pratt-mitre-saw-no-1118-cast-iron


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks for posting that Poa. Now I know what the GP box looks like. Made for a 18" saw so not very big either.

I've been trying to find out today a little more about the name plate on the mitre box I bought on auction. It doesn't have the triangle style logo on it. I was trying to find out if it is an earlier box or later. Something around 1925 or closer to 1931. The write ups I have found online don't discuss the badges.


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## BlasterStumps

Not much going on in my shop right now so I did a little puttering yesterday and today. I made another handle for one of the mitre saws. In the event the MF mitre box that is on it's way makes in without problems, I hope one of these saws will work in it. : )


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## theoldfart

Blaster, the handle looks good.


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## Poa

Nice job on the handle. As far as mating the box to one of your saws, I'm pretty confident that any backsaw with 4" under the spine, give or take 1/4", will work in it. Ideally, 24", 20", or 18" would be desirable, but theres no reason not to use a saw with a longer plate, if thats all you have.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I do have a 4" but it's not one in the picture. I believe it fits another MF box I have. I'll have to get it out and dust it off.

Thanks Poa, you just told me more about the box than I have been able to find out looking online.


----------



## BlasterStumps

The mitre box showed today. In good nick no less. YAY! The seller did a great job packaging it.

I could not read the model number on the badge on the sellers picture but now I know. It is a 74. The 5" saw that I fixed up for it fits!! YAY again!

All parts and bits accounted for with one exception, the length stop that would be held in place by a moulding stop. I have plenty of Stanley length stops so probably just borrow one from another box if need be. Or possibly get real inventive and make one for it. Just a flat strap that is slotted.

Looks like I will be giving it a clean then do some adjusting on it. No cracks, no breaks, nothing damaged that I have found so far. So that is a good starting point. If I can get it so it can facilitate cuts square and true, I think it might have been a good buy at $12.11 plus the shipping. : )


----------



## Poa

Blaster….got you confused with Brent when I mentioned length of compatable saws. Still had Brent's smaller All Steel box in mind.

I have the exact box you just recieved. Any idea what thd stop looks like for cutting lengths? My box has a small hole on each side of the table, just past the stock rest grooves. Is this where a cut length stop would fasten?


----------



## BrentParkin

I will try to get out to my shop and sort out the mitre box. I did discover that the missing pieces seem to be officially called elevators.










I really would like to put this small box to use. I have a big Stanley for larger stuff, but I could keep this little one close to hand at my bench which would be nice. The saw that came with it is beautiful with its Goodall Etch on it. I have a new handle cut out on my bench right now to replace the disaster that came on the saw.



> Brent s box looks like a Pratt No. 1118.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## Poa

I recieved the latest batch of parts, and there are in fact some elevators. Haven't inspected them enough to determine condition. I'll letcha know.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Poa, the length stops I have seen online for the MF box is a lot like the one on my Stanley 150 and Stanley 60, and later 3XX boxes. It is a slotted strap about 9 or 10" long with one end bent up at a 90 and the other end at the end of the slot is rounded.

BTW, I ended up changing to the Disston made Goodell Mfg saw because it works silky smooth in the guides whereas the one I put the handle on seemed to be scraping in the guides. With the Goodell Mfg saw in there, it is probably the nicest working mitre box I have, and I have a few. : )

I took it apart and washed it with safety solvent and reassembled it while lubing and waxing and adjusting. Nice, nice now. I can't imagine it working any better brand new.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I was messing around with the MF mitre box this morning and decided I needed to take the elevator dogs apart and clean out about 100 years of dried crud out of them. I got that surgery done and then made a length stop for it. Here 'tis Poa, this is close to what should be on it as far as I know. : ) If your's has a different mounting, it might be a different age box possibly.


----------



## bandit571

Almost like the one my Stanley 2246 has..









Maybe?


----------



## BlasterStumps

They are similar Bandit but the slot in the Stanley is for a smaller bolt. The moulding stop bolt on the MF is 3/8 so it didn't fit the slot in the Stanley stop.

When I first got this Millers Falls Acme box, after looking it over some, I thought it didn't have an intermediate position lock for the swing arm. Well today I am working on it and got to playing around with the swing arm again and figured the arm lock out. Quite ingenious it is too. Just turn the handle clockwise. : )


----------



## Poa

Blaster…when I get a chance, I will post s pic of the table on mine. I suspect the two holes are user added. By the way, in the batch of parts I just bought from Jim Bode there was a pair of stock rests for boxes like ours. Interestingly, they are about 1/8" shorter than the ones on my 74.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I messed around with the MF mitre box some more today, first to fix a problem with the swing arm pivot bolt working loose and then to add a large hole to the length stop. I put some red stuff on the threads of the pivot bolt, let it sit for a few hours and then added the set screw back in. Seems to be holding now.

It didn't take me long, (well maybe a couple days) to figure out that I needed to add the hole to the length stop. Otherwise, you have to take the moulding stop apart to add the length stop. Now I can put it on quickly and remove it quickly. I may put a couple of small magnets on the back of the box to hold the stop when not in use. I don't feel up to grinding the strap down enough to fit on the mounding stop when it is parked in back.


----------



## Poa

Blaster…can you take a picture of one of the knurled thumb screws that hold the elevater stops? Don't think mine are correct. Also, is there a rectangular washer between the stops and the guide post?


----------



## BlasterStumps

No rectangular washer. Here's some pics:


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## BlasterStumps

Never mind the price, at least they have it put together right, right? : )
https://helena.craigslist.org/tls/d/fort-harrison-vintage-millers-falls/6778429509.html


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## Poa

Ok…interesting.. When I recieved my 74, it had the wrong stops, which were the stops for a 6" Pratt. Not a bad thing, really, because in addition to a complete 6" Pratt I have, restored, I have two incomplete 6 inchers, that I am slowly completing. And the mitre box Gods be praised, in the recent parts batch I acquired, there was a pair of 5" stops. But also, there was one rectangular washer, with a raised boss, that fits the groove on the stop. Kinda serving the same purpose the concave washers on the Pratts serve, which is to hold the stops in a vertical position. Could it be one more bit that is often missing on boxes like ours? Also, check out the parts popourri in the right hand lower corner of the last pic. Is that a Stanley restorer's wet dream, or what? All recieved in the latest parts batch that Jim Bode sold me. Also, upper left corner, two Greenfields I am working on restoring. Unaware of any others. Only two I have ever laid eyes on, in the wild, or online. I am thoroughly addicted to this mitre box thing.


----------



## bandit571

Pictures of interest?









Langdon ACME No. 2-1/2 size, No. 75 Missing a bolt…









Back post has it's bolts. Homemade stock rests..









Other stops. What I used for a length stop….









Stanley No. 2246A "elevator" post….keepers on the other side..









And work just fine….


----------



## Poa

Bandit….what bolt are you missing? Perhaps I have one.


----------



## bandit571

First photo. The bolt that springs in, to keep the saw elevated….have the one on the back post…


----------



## Poa

There are two or three versions, bandit. Show me a pic of your good one.


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## Poa

Never mind, bandit, I see it. Remarkably, there is one of the bolts in this batch. Unfortunately, its missing the knurled nut. And is a little rough as far as the threads go. But it definitely looks salvageable to me. I imagine a guy could do some careful thread chasing with a jeweler's file. Looks like someone grabbed the tenon that engages the guide with a pair of pliers, so that'll need a little attention as well. Of course, you'll need to find a bitty spring for it as well. Worth a shot, better than nothing. Email me your mailing address, I'll send it to you. I'm [email protected]


----------



## Poa

Wow. Now, this one definitely has me jacked. To a mitre box freak, this is like a Holy Grail saw. 4" x 18" Disston split nut, with a Langdon Mitre Box Co. stamped spine. It has a full plate, and the handle is almost perfect. I'm outta bandaids, so I better go get some, 'cause I'm sleepin' with this puppy tonight.


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## RWE

Looks really cool. What medallion? Late 1800's or early 1900's. Immaculate handle. Congrats!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, what a find!


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## BlasterStumps

Yes, congrats on finding that saw Poa. Should clean up nice. Sometime you will have to tell us how, when and where of finding it.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, awesome find. I was doing the happy dance when I found the same saw, they don't show up very often in good shape. Think mine has the same medallion, 1875 or so.


----------



## Poa

The major saw outfits stopped using split nuts in 1875. And, believe it or not, it was an ebay score.


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## theoldfart

Same here Jon. The only difference I can see is mine is stamped Northampton.


----------



## Poa

So, with the Northampton stamp, yours would be the earlier saw, right? When did they move?


----------



## theoldfart

The flood happened in 1874 and they moved in 1875. I still think the saws are the same age.


----------



## Poa

Btw, Kevin, did you see that Langdon No. 15 1/2 thats on the bay right now? The guy's first description was a joke. I emailed him, and kinda took him to task for it. He had it at 400 and some odd bucks, too, on a buy it now. He has since made a bit better of a description, and dropped ig to 375, before shipping. Also claims to have "3 or 4" of these small langdons "layin around" in his "extensive collection of old tools"


----------



## Poa

Yikes…when it rains…

Yet another 15 1/2 on the bay, this one listed at 550. "Restored". Yet it ain't. Wrong surface on the tables, and kind of a too clean repainted feel to it.


----------



## theoldfart

I've become disillusioned with the 'Bay relative to mitre box prices. These sellers are nucking futs. Things I bought for ten to twenty dollars are going for hundreds. Is any one paying these prices?


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, just got home. here are two pics from my early split Langdon.



















I also have a Jackson from the same era.


----------



## Poa

Well, Kevin, its been a while since I sold a box on the bay. Last one was a restored and complete wartime No. 346 Stanley, with a saw, for, if I remember right, 220, before shipping. And really, considering what I had in the box in initial cost, and labor, I needed to get more for it to make a reasonable profit. But what gets me, is that 95% of the boxes offered on the bay are missing many parts, are in rough shape, and they are still asking the prices that not too long ago you could purchase a complete box in decent condition for. And as far as the small Langdons go, its crazy. That one 15 1/2, with the ridiculous wrong sized table, and trashed saw, at 375 before shipping? Huh? No way. And what about that yahoo that had one or two on there for over a grand apiece? And, no doubt, this latest one, " restored", at 550, will languish, then disappear, unsold.


----------



## Poa

Hey…kevin. what mitre box would our saws pair with? Your saw is 18" too, right? Do you have the correct vintage/size box for your saw? Pic?


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, both my early Langdon saws are 20" on the plate. The Jackson is 4" under the spine and fits my 1874 Landon. The Diston is 3 1/2" and is too short to fit the box. I have no idea what the original box numbers are on the original Langdons.
The top saw is a Jackson and it came with the Langdon and I suspect it's original. Restoration was by Bob Summerfield.
The bottom saw is a Disston I bought hoping to match the Langdon 
















Hope this helps.


----------



## Poa

Kevin…thanks. Also, can I see a pic of the 1874 box?


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, here you go.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I haven't messed with elevator dogs before getting the MF 74 mitre box. I took these dogs apart because they were packed full of dry crud. I see that the notch in the post has a sloped top side and a squared bottom side. The dogs were installed the same way, sloped to top side and squared to bottom. I have adjusted them as much as I can and yet they still drop the saw. As they say, what's wrong with this picture?


----------



## Johnny7

> As they say, what s wrong with this picture?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


What picture?

You'll likely get a lot more help if people can see what you're trying to describe.


----------



## Poa

They are in upside down. The slope goes down. It is not supposed to catch the slot in the guide when the guide is pulled upwards. But it is supposed to catch the slot when the guide is meant to be retained in its up position.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I will turn one over and see what I get. Thanks Poa.

Sorry Johnny, I probably should have posted a picture instead of trying to describe it. Here's a picture:


----------



## Johnny7

BlasterStumps

Thanks for the picture-I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I learn a lot from these photos and discussions-especially when they involve tools I don't personally own an example of.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Didn't have any better luck with the elevators turned over. Dang. Drops the saw like a guillotine blade. The other Langdon style boxes I have have a straight cut slot. Once the dog enters the slot, you have to pull the button knob out to release it. This older 74 doesn't heave a positive lock on the guide with that sloped side to the slot. Not sure what I can do to remedy it. Maybe do a little surgery on the guides with a file : (


----------



## HokieKen

Mike, you said you turned the elevators over but not the dogs? Reading your first post on the issue, sounds like both the elevator and the dogs needed to be flipped. I don't have a miter box but from your pic and description, it sounds like the flat side of the dog should be facing up and the flat side of the slot should also be at the top.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks HokieKen, The threaded shaft on the dog has a flat cut side so that it can only go into the housing one way. The guide can't change unless I file it square in place of the sloped side it has now.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, in that case, ya got me Mike :-( Sounds to me like either the guide or the slot is just plain worn out. If it were me, I'd take a file to one or both. But, like I said, I am unexperienced with miter boxes so take that with a grain of salt!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Since the saw guides are cast, it only took a couple strokes with a file on each to fix them so they don't drop the saw. Yay! I don't like modifying my old tools but in this case I could foresee a nasty injury if I had left it like it was with it dropping the saw.


----------



## Poa

So, after you filed the guides, which way do the dogs work best?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I just left the dogs in with the square cut side up. I like knowing that I have to manually release the guide. Thanks again for the info on them.


----------



## JethroBodean

> I've become disillusioned with the 'Bay relative to mitre box prices. These sellers are nucking futs. Things I bought for ten to twenty dollars are going for hundreds. Is any one paying these prices?
> 
> - theoldfart


TOF - Are they really going for that or is the seller just asking for that. I usually check the 'Completed Items' checkbox to see what the boxes actually went for. Most of the time they were either quite a bit lower or they were marked 'Offer Accepted'. Don't get me wrong, the prices are still way out of line in my opinion.

BTW: Dumb questionm, but where did you get the plastic teeth guards that I see on your two Mitre Saws? Is that a Bob thing or can I buy them somewhere?


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, Tools for Working Wood in Brooklyn, NY.

Herehttps://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TS/item/GT-SBG


----------



## BrentParkin

Well I finally got to my shop through the snow that's flying up here on the Canadian Prairies. I brought the box home and took some photos of where the elevators should go. Let me know if you have the parts that might work for this little beastie. It seems like it would be a nice little box to use rather than the Stanley 150 I use for cutting small parts. Not that I don't like my 150 LOL.


























I must admit I don't get how the elevator parts would go in those holes. They are not threaded that I can see through the dirt. But it would be great to clean this up and repaint it so that it looks respectable and usable.



> I recieved the latest batch of parts, and there are in fact some elevators. Haven t inspected them enough to determine condition. I ll letcha know.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## HokieKen

Alright fellas, help educate a guy  What I'm looking for may be buried in this thread but, it's a long thread and I can't read through it all.

I would like a miter box. I find myself often wishing I had a quicker and easier way to cut miters on really small or really long pieces often. My table saw miter gauge is very good and gives good results but more and more often, I find myself reaching for hand tools instead of power tools for onesy-twosey pieces. So, I've decided a miter box parked under the bench for quick access would be a good investment.

I bought a Langdon saw that was advertised as being off of a Millers Falls miter box some time ago. My plan at the time was just to use it as a cross cut saw but as of now it still sits rusty and dull. So, I don't necessarily need a complete setup if it's a box my saw will fit. IIRC, it's a 16" saw but I can measure when I get home tonight.

I'm a fan of Millers Falls tools. I have braces, egg beaters, vises, push drills, push drivers and bench planes galore ;-) So, I'd like to have a MF box to go with all the other splashes of red around the shop. I'm not married to that, but that's my initial inkling. I also don't want to pay a lot of dough for one of these things. But, unfortunately, local shopping for such things is virtually non-existent. I have been watching Craigslist for some time and haven't seen a single miter box. The only flea market we had went belly up and local antique stores charge eBay prices for old tools so no-go there either.

So, Ebay or other online options are my best ones. What I'm asking is which models of MF boxes are desireable? What to look for as far as completeness? And, is there some reason I shouldn't be looking at MF?

I'm in no hurry to get one but I like to keep a good eye on Ebay offerings. Since I'm uneducated about these things, I figured I'd go to the pros 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, that saw of yours may be worth a bit more than you think. If it's 2" to 2 1/2" under the spine it is a highly desirable saw that will fit the smallest Langdons. Since your looking for a more common sized set up. You should be able to trade. Check the measurements.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope Kevin, it's much bigger than that. More like 5-6" under spine. And I said 16" before but I think it's actually 24". I'll verify dimensions when I get home.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That 16" number piqued my interest too. That'd be a rare size for a mitrebox saw, I think.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, every time one shows up it's $100 or more. People see how much the mini Langdons fetch and are willing to pay a lot for the saws.


----------



## BlasterStumps

HokieKen, the last one I bought, I spotted on an auction site. I put in a $12.11 bid and danged if I didn't get it. But, the bummer was the $32 shipping. So all together it turned out to be probably my most expensive mitre box. I like to catch them when someone local is selling one. I got a nice Stanley 358 w/saw for $25 just recently by being the first caller on a CL ad. I hope you can snag one in your local area.
Mike

edit: I like both Stanley and MF boxes. I have a Stanley 60 that is very nice. Not all boxes have all the same parts so it would depend on which box you are looking at to know if it is complete or not. I bought a Stanley 358 real late model that was missing some parts in the front post. Just look close. Most came with a length stop. Some had moulding stops. Look close to watch for damaged legs or other cast pieces such as the posts being broken and repaired.


----------



## Poa

Kevin, I missed on a 2-12×16 disston on ebay a week or so ago. Simply forgot to bid on it. It went for 53 bucks.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the input Mike. I would love to grab one locally. Unfortunately, the old tool market around here is low supply and high prices. I'm definitely on the lookout though.

Kevin and Smitty - I was right earlier about my saw, it is a 16" plate. About 4" under spine. I'm including some pics.


----------



## Poa

Ken….16" saw, pretty small for a mitre box of any real utility if you are going to be cutting crown, door casing, etc.. Unless you opt for one of the good smaller boxes, like the Stanley No. 150. I am not really all that savvy on the MF boxes. I do have a complete 6" MF, in good shape, but have never used it. I really prefer the range of adjustments on the Stanleys that have the double rod style guide posts, such as the No. 358. Should you find a box that takes a larger saw, I could probably come up with a saw for it, and would consider trading for your Langdon stamped 16 incher. I do sell complete and restored Stanley and Goodell Pratt boxes, but I price 'em pretty high, and shipping is a killer, price wise.


----------



## Poa

Brent…yes, you will find those holes are in fact threaded. I am out of town on a jobsite right now. When I get home in a couple of days, I'll check and see if I have a couple decent GP guide dogs.


----------



## JethroBodean

Ok Ken, I'm going to be doing a lot of speculating here. And truth be told I'm likely going to be wrong on almost every point. But here goes:

Your saw looked to be one of the clipped heel variety, so if you came up with the 16" by measuring the tooth line, then it is probably really an 18" plate. The total length of the plate including what's under the handle.

As far as I can tell the medallion on the saw looks to be a match for the ones from 1896-1917. So I went looking in the MF catalogs for a miter box that had an 18×4 option.

Looking in the 1912 Millers Falls catalog, I see that 'New Langdon Mitre Box' and the 'New Langdon Mitre Box' both had an option for a 18×4 saw. In the 1904 catalog it show those same 2 boxes, but also shows an 18×4 option for the 'Langdon Adjustable Mitre Box'

Well there you go. My two cents, for what it is worth.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks gents! Jethro, you're correct that 16" was along the tooth line. So it is an 18" saw.

I feel like the box I would want is probably bigger than the saw that I have. So I'm likely to seek out a larger box either with a saw or then get a bigger saw. On the other hand, if I stumble on one of the boxes Jethro mentions, I may grab that and use it with this saw.

In other words, I'm still looking for a miter box but don't know what ;-))


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny: "I'm still looking for a miter box but don't know what ;-))"

That is what has lead me to buy at least half a dozen boxes. I didn't know what I wanted in one until I tried several. I found a Wards Master clone of the Stanley 2358 that I really like and have it set up on my mitre box station. This is my go-to when I don't want to use the corded model.
I also keep my Wards Master clone of the Stanley 150 out so that it is readily available to use. I really like it as well. 
I have several Stanley boxes of different size/model that I have fixed up and then I have a Craftsman and a couple Mf late model boxes. These are probably the most durable of them all. No cast legs. 
My most recent box is the MF Langdon style Acme 74, circa 1925. It took some experimenting with different saws to find what worked on it. Once I found the right saw, I have to give the 74 some high marks. It is very nice. I don't plan to put it on my mitre box station but rather mount it on a piece of ply with a bench hook on it. We'll see.

As someone else has said, I have a lot of mitre boxes but I'm not a collector. Or something like that.


----------



## HokieKen

For whatever reason Mike, the MF 74 is the box that catches my eye. It just looks robust and all of the mechanics look well thought-out and implemented. I don't know if that's really the case but that's just what my "gut" says. I also see those at *almost* reasonable prices with shipping, sans saw on Ebay from time to time.


----------



## Poa

No matter what manufacturer, and what box, I strongly recommend buying a complete box, rather than buying a box that is missing components, and thinking "I will find the parts eventually". Commonly missing parts are not cheap, and are quite often suprisingly expensive. However, finding complete boxes can be a real exercise in patience, particularly as it applies to Stanleys and Goodell Pratts.If you peruse the offerings on Ebay, it can be stated without exageration that 95% of the Stanleys are incomplete, and most of the time, 100% of the Goodell Pratts. The later MFs seem to offer the best chance of finding a complete box.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, one thing to know about the Langdon style is that somewhere around 1930 they started producing the saw guides with bearings. The late model boxes have bronze. Some Stanleys have bearings. My old Acme 74 has nothing in the guides. That is why finding the right saw matters on that type. My Wards Master has bearings.

edit: One other thing on the old Langdon boxes, I would caution against taking the swing arm apart unless you really had to. : )


----------



## HokieKen

Good advice Poa. I've built my collection of hand planes and other tools by refurbishing vintage ones. So, the "missing parts" lesson is one I learned some time ago… the hard way ;-)


----------



## DLK

Another advantage of MF 74C is that all the screws are standard pitch and you you can pick up ones that work at the hardware store. Or if you have a screw making lathe make them. Mine was 80% complete when I got it. Jerry rigged some parts my self and was able to use it right away. Don W sent me some in a trade and then last year a friend of mine made most of the remaining parts. I have one piece to make out of flat steel, that I hardly need.

I use the box all the time

Having looked over all the boxes I think the MF-Langdon 74C maybe the best one.


----------



## JethroBodean

I've had pretty good luck over the last 5 years or so, by trolling the local Habitat for Humanity Restores. I've probably picked up 7 or 8 Mitre Boxes. Mostly Stanley & GP All Steels, I don't see many MF boxes out here in Oregon country. I picked up another 10 or more from Craigslist. I've only gone the EBay route once. My first Stanley 150 with a beautiful Apple wood handled Disston for $67 including shipping.

My advice is have patience, the right box will come along. Just find the right places to look. Fair warning, the boxes do have a tendency to multiply like rabbits. My non-collection now stands at over 25. Who in their right mind needs 25 boxes??? Luckily I never been accused of being in my right mind. Good Luck Ken.


----------



## Poa

Yes, they multiply like rabbits. I am one of the few that will admit to being a collector. And I intend to continue to add to my collection. Need an early Stanley No. 242, as well as s 244. Also seeking the Langdon "Star" mitre fixture, which I have yet to find an affordable example of. Heres a mitre fixture I recently won at auction, that is currently in transit to me. Looking forward to recieving it and checking it out.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US868634


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the feedback fellas!

Jethro - Our habitat store is pretty close to work so I spend my lunch break in there fairly often browsing the tools and hardware to see if there's anything cool. Unfortunately, the only miter boxes I've ever seen in there were of the modern variety - either plastic or stamped metal with those frame saws that look like hacksaws. I have found a couple of decent old Disstons in there though and some Perfect Handle screwdrivers  I'll continue to keep an eye out in there though.

Don - I'm ahead of the curve in that I have a metal lathe in my shop and access to a mill at work. So, if the missing parts aren't cast and I can figure out what they're supposed to do, I can most likely make any missing bits. My fear though is that the missing bit will be something I can't make and that I won't know it's missing until it's too late :-(


----------



## theoldfart

I guess more than a few people are more "collectish" than I am! I've had good luck on CL, flea markets, and formerly on EBay. My dream box was out on the 'Bay recently. It is a Dorn patent made by Braunsdor Mueller Co. and he wanted $395 plus 75 shipping. Like a lot of EBay stuff it was missing parts and the likely hood of finding them negligible. Someday.

Jon, I have one of the star 41s. Pretty cool jig. Your new one is new to me. pics when you get it?


----------



## HokieKen

Decided to drop by the Habitat store on lunch. Par for the course…


----------



## DLK

> Don - I m ahead of the curve in that I have a metal lathe in my shop and access to a mill at work. So, if the missing parts aren t cast and I can figure out what they re supposed to do, I can most likely make any missing bits. My fear though is that the missing bit will be something I can t make and that I won t know it s missing until it s too late :-(
> 
> - HokieKen


*Ken*: See this MF-L reference page In particular see this sub-page
on replacement parts and the numerous parts photos for example for the 74C


----------



## theoldfart

nice cardboard box at least


----------



## Poa

Kevin….what parts do you think the Dorn patent box was missing? Granted, it is less ornate than the other pics I could find, but really, I do not see how the more decorative pieces would attach to the one offered on ebay.. Do you think its possible that the ebay listing is simply a different, less frilly, model?


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, look at the quarter circle cut outs on the vertical flats. I remember seeing a pic with some sort of clamp fitted to those slots. Can't find the pic now.


----------



## WayneC

Kevin,

I would love to see a picture and keep an eye out for ya.


----------



## HokieKen

> *Ken*: See this MF-L reference page In particular see this sub-page
> on replacement parts and the numerous parts photos for example for the 74C
> 
> - Combo Prof


Thanks Don! I've seen that reference before but never clicked through the links and found those pics. Those could come in really handy


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, here you go.


----------



## HokieKen

What do eyes better educated than my own think about this box?


----------



## Poa

Good price. The rust can easily be dealt with. It is missing the stock rests, which can be difficult to find. I have a pair, but kinda reluctant to part with 'em. Be warned, most sellers are unaware what a hassle they are to ship, or how costly. When buying mitre boxes online, a polite note to the seller about careful packaging goes a long ways towards assuring you will get the box undamaged.


----------



## WayneC

> Wayne, here you go.
> 
> - theoldfart


I'll keep my eyes out.


----------



## HokieKen

> Good price. The rust can easily be dealt with. It is missing the stock rests, which can be difficult to find. I have a pair, but kinda reluctant to part with em. Be warned, most sellers are unaware what a hassle they are to ship, or how costly. When buying mitre boxes online, a polite note to the seller about careful packaging goes a long ways towards assuring you will get the box undamaged.
> 
> - Poa


Thank you Poa. Now, if I may fly my ignorance like a flag… Are the "stock rests" the adjustable (look adjustable anyway) pieces that are attached to the fixed portion of the elevators with thumb screws? If so, they look relatively easy to fabricate. Am I wrong about that?


----------



## Poa

The stock rests are movable posts that slide forward and back in the slots you see on the table. Picture cutting a piece of crown molding that you are leaning against the back fence. The stock rest assures that that angle of lean is consistent with every cut. And in 
Simpler usage, the stock rests can simply be set to hold a molding against the back fence so when you draw the saw towards you, it doesn't want to pull the molding away from the fence. The missing stock rests are in this picture. They are the slotted posts with the carraige bolts threaded into them, right below the little Langdon legs.








!


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## HokieKen

Ahhh. Thanks POA  I can definitely turn those.


----------



## bandit571

Stock rest…depth stops in use..









Sometimes, I use both rests on one side…









Had to set up a stop for tenon shoulder cuts..









IF Kenny looks close enough, he will see another part that is missing from his box….
Shoulder cuts?









Followed by a handsaw..









And..









Tenons are done…

Langdon ACME No. 75


----------



## HokieKen

Another part missing besides the depth stops and the stock rests Bandit? Please enlighten?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Depth stops on mitreboxes are workable, but I think they're an unneeded hassle. I'd rather mark










Cut tenons long grain










Then cut cross grain (shoulders) that stop when I hit the previous cut lines.










And done.


----------



## DLK

Did you use that shoulder plane too?


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## bandit571

Photo #3…..the knurled bolt? Note the metal bracket it is holding up….these are my main depth stops….easier to set than the smaller ones on the left sides of the "elevators"....









Was a garage sale find….$15 counting the stand, and the saw..









This was after I cleaned it up a bit..









Has a Millers Falls decal on the 5×30 saw…









Liked this one so well, I sold the Stanley No. 358 box and it's saw….wasn't enough room for both of these huge mitre boxes in my shop…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Did you use that shoulder plane too?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Just a touch, on one piece. That No. 92 was lonely / wanted attention.


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## theoldfart

I use the smaller stops to keep the saw teeth from bottoming out, set once and leave them alone till you reshape nor change saws. The longer stops are for repeatable depth cuts, like when your making large quantities. Not worth setting up for four or five of anything. Just my two centavos!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I support that message!


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## bandit571

Operation was for 16 cuts….YMMV…


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## HokieKen

Well, after the feedback from you guys, I figured I can pretty easily fabricate the missing parts on the MF 74 box I linked yesterday. I still wasn't fully convinced I wanted to jump on it so I made a lowball offer. To my surprise, they accepted  So, for better or for worse, this thing is headed my way for $41 shipped…









Now to hunt down a saw for it…


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## Poa

Hah! And I betcha you think thats the only box you'll end up with. I thought that way once, too. Then, another one presented itself, then another. At that point, I made the mistake of putting the three in the same area, unsupervised. An orgy ensued, and pretty soon…

Bear in mind, this pic was taken some time back. Some of these boxes have sold, but trust me, they seem to reproduce much faster than they sell. The herd has grown, not shrunk. But my taste has become a bit more selective, prefering the older, rarer, unusual boxes.

But hey, congrats on your score, particularly seeing as how you intend to rehab the box. Personally, I prefer rehab and restoration projects that are actually restorative, rather than taking a clean and functional tool and doing a bit of clean up on it. Putting your box back into service will be a rewarding endeavor, that, in the end, will be something to be proud of.


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## BlasterStumps

Looks good Kenny. I think you will enjoy that model when you get it going.

One thing I did on mine was to re-index the thumb lever for the swingarm one position counter clockwise. Just seemed to work easier for me like that and it doesn't need to be sitting up any higher for the lever to clear when you twist it clockwise to lock the arm position.


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## HokieKen

I'm pretty good about not collecting tools Poa ;-) Tools that are going to be in my shop have to earn their spot because space is at a premium. If I were going to collect something, it would be screwdrivers or punches or something really small ;-) I definitely don't have to space to collect a lineup like that!

I could see wanting a smaller model down the road though. And possibly a dedicated one with specially filed super fine teeth with the angle locked in dead at 45 for frames and boxes. And maybe… HEY what the hell is happening!?


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## HokieKen

Good to know Mike. Thanks for that. I'm sure I'll be peppering you guys with questions once I get it in hand and start the rehab ;-)


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## Poa

Smaller…..???? Now why in the heck….uh…oh…never mind.


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## bandit571

Smaller? Maybe look for a GEM?









Then fold up and stash in a drawer, when done..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Worth every bit of the $5 or so they cost, those GEM boxes. ;-)


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## BlasterStumps

Kenny, I posted a picture recently here showing a piece of slotted strap that bent one end up on to make a length stop. It works for short cuts. Look back in the thread a little.

One thing about my mitre box that I felt wasn't the best was that the elevators did not hold the saw up. It would drop hard and I could see me loosing a finger so I modified the guide. Work great now.

If you find the right saw, it will be silky smooth operating in the guides. If it isn't the right one like one I tried in mine, you will notice it right away. The spine was scraping and just didn't seem right. I ended up choosing a Goodell MFg saw.


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## HokieKen

Thanks Mike. I hope to find a 28×5 Langdon that was made for these boxes. I ain't picky though as long as it works well! I read through your issues with the elevators. I'll definitely be on the lookout for that issue and will know how to fix it if it does exist


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## bandit571

Few years back, upstairs bedroom had a fire….Used the GEM to cut new trim for around this..









Had to replace not only what the fire burnt, but what the Firemen tore up….









and..









New Drywall, instead of plaster/lath…..then new trim.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice work Bandit, you extracted all the UTILS available from that GEM. Mine found the trash can.


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## bandit571

And, mine sits comfy in a drawer of the tool chest. Nice to take along, as about any handsaw will work in it..have used a panel saw to cut small parts square. When hauling either the Langdon 75 or the Stanley #2246A around would be a bit cumbersome…


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## waho6o9

LeeValley's version of Bandit's miter box:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=76038&cat=1,42884


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## theoldfart

Maybe but it doesn't fold up like the Gem. I keep a Gem in my "portable" chest along with a MF 41.


----------



## Poa

Ok…..so, I recieved the Crown "Saw Gauge". Its interesting that the saw guide mounting fasteners do not match the patent drawings. In the patent drawings, the saw guide simply folds up for minimizing the size of the fixture for tool chest storage. Obviously, sometime in the evolution of this fixture, someone involved in its manufacture said "Hey, with a few small changes, you could cut compound mitres with this." I was puzzled to try to figure out if any of the differences were user modifications, but a pic I found of one that was offered in a Martin Donnelly auction, is virtually identical, so I think mine is unmodified.

When I unpackaged it, virtually every bit of it was stiff and very hard to operate. The spring steel piece that engages the indents was rusted into its guide post, and was inoperable. I put a drop of 50/50 tranny fluid/acetone, on all the hinge points, and moving surfaces, and this morning it operates very well. This fixture does not have a manner in which it can be locked between indents, so it will only cut a 90, and left and right 22.5°, and 45°. The wooden saw guides pinch a saw plate sufficiently for minimal cut deflection. All in all, an interesting and useful fixture, that I think should have sold well enough for more examples to be circulating. But this is the only one I have ever seen, save that one pic from the Donnelly auction.

I did get 2° of deflection cutting a 22.5°. But that little Richardson is not very sharp, and I quickly and haphazardly mounted the fixture to base wood. I do think with a sharp saw, and a bit more care to mounting, this fixture would be fairly accurate.


----------



## Johnny7

Very cool - I've never seen one before


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## theoldfart

That's a first for me as well. Similar functionality to a Millers Falls star 41. Nice find POA .


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh, that is a sweet piece of hardware!


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## HokieKen

That's pretty slick POA. I'm trying my best not to look at you guys' pictures when I scroll through this thread. I don't need to get overly-enamored… ;-)

So my MF74 box is on the way. Should be here Monday  I thought I would use my small Langdon 18×4 saw to set it up but after thinking on it a bit, I'm guessing there isn't enough travel in the depth stops on the elevators for a 4" saw to reach the table?

So, before I go scouring eBay, I thought I'd see if anyone on here has a 5" Langdon saw in the 24-28" range they'd want to part with? I have the Langdon and a couple of old Disston saws I could trade or I can just buy it or a combination of cash and trade if anyone has a spare  Thanks gents!


----------



## Poa

Ken….... If you strike out on the Langdon stamped saw, I have a fairly decent 5" X 28" (actual 4-3/4"), no etch, that I would trade for the Langdon. When I get a chance, I will post a couple of pics. Probably be tomorrow.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Poa! I ain't picky at the moment. Once I get it set, up if it seems like it's a good user that's gonna stay with me, I may seek out a Langdon. For now though, One with no stamp is fine. I appreciate the offer


----------



## Poa

Ken…this one does have a stamp, on the spine. But it is the standard Disston stamp. But with no etch on the plate, impossible to know if this saw was designated as a mitre box saw, or a Disston No. 4 backsaw. It makes no never mind, because they are virtually identical, except for the etch they came with. But in the catalogues, there is two different categories, "Back Saws", and " Mitre Box Saws"


----------



## BlasterStumps

Ken, the travel in the depth stops is maybe an issue with a 4" plate but the saw guide may not take that depth of blade. If your saw guides are same as mine, you will see what I mean when you get it.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the clarification Poa . I don't really care if it was a miter saw or just a back saw if it will work )

Thanks for the feedback Mike. When I started thinking it through, I figured the smaller saw would present at least one issue of some sort…


----------



## Poa

The issue, Ken, is the slot in the guide. It widens at the bottom, to account for the set in the teeth. If you try to use a 4" saw in 5" guides, the toothline does not fit far enough down in the slot to get to the widened area. For example, here are 4, 5, and 6" guides.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, she needs some elbow grease and a little lipstick but she came home today )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Cool Ken. Should be a good one. First thing I would do is look inside the saw guides to see if it has ball bearings for the spine of the saw to ride on. Does it have a nameplate on it?


----------



## HokieKen

No to the ball bearings and yes to the nameplate Mike.


----------



## Poa

Ken…just private messaged you.


----------



## theoldfart

I just snagged a full set of papers for the 1901/02 Langdon mitre boxes. Original instructions, part sheet, and price lists for 1901 and 1902.

Pics when they arrive.

Much Happy!


----------



## JethroBodean

Too cool, Kevin!


----------



## WayneC

> I just snagged a full set of papers for the 1901/02 Langdon mitre boxes. Original instructions, part sheet, and price lists for 1901 and 1902.
> 
> Pics when they arrive.
> 
> Much Happy!
> 
> - theoldfart


Very nice


----------



## BlasterStumps

HokieKen, I was wondering how you were coming along with the mitre box?


----------



## HokieKen

See the picture I posted when I got it Mike? That's how I'm doing! ;-) Already had 2 planes in the refurb pipe and I'm wrapping up a belt grinder build and just finished a new stand for my metal lathe so I have to tear it down and transfer it over.

THEN, I can get to work on this box 
 I'm definitely excited to do so too. Poa was good enough to swap me a saw that will fit it so by the time I get the box cleaned up, I should have a saw to tune it with 

I INTEND to do a blog series on the cleanup and tuning but we'll see if I remember to take pics :-/


----------



## Poa

This guy is REALLY hurting for money apparently. He originally listed this box for about forty bucks, with with about 20 bucks shipping. I contacted him and warned him about shippings costs, and he upped the ante. Now, today, he has been pleading with me to buy the box, and, he is again lowering the price. This ain't a bad price at all, so if any of you are looking….

But, be aware, he really will need coaching about how to package the box for shipping.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F233129751136


----------



## theoldfart

I've been watching that one. Nice early box, third generation with the "precisionizer"indexer. Packing is critical, those uprights and legs will not take a lot of abuse.


----------



## Poa

I almost bought it when it was listed for 30 some odd bucks. But, realizing it would cost him twice that to ship it to me, I just couldn't justify it to myself. But really, it is a buyer beware, because he REALLY wants to get rid of it today. If I am correct, and he is hurtin' for money, it might not get shipped very fast after he has spent the sale proceeds.


----------



## Poa

Hmmm…he just messaged me…."Never mind, I took it off ebay".


----------



## theoldfart

It's still up

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Langdon-Miter-Box-and-Saw-/292944797065


----------



## Poa

That ain't the box, Kevin.


----------



## bandit571

Just what kind of a Stanley box is THAT? When, if ever, did Stanley use those type of roller guides?


----------



## Poa

Thats the third iteration of the Stanley box, when they finally gave it a model number. Don't have time right now to look up the dates, but I am sure Kevin will chime in.


----------



## theoldfart

My bad.


----------



## Poa

Thats the third iteration of the Stanley box, when they finally gave it a model number. Don't have time right now to look up the dates, but I am sure Kevin will chime in.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

First time I'm seeing that type as well. actually pretty cool.


----------



## theoldfart

That is the revised 50/60 box and came out in 1908 and was based on a 1904 patent by Francis Richards. The next version got rid of the roller guides and went with Trauts clamshell saw guides.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I got my saw in the mail yesterday from Poa  So now, other than a couple depth stops and stock guides, this thing is complete. I'll fabricate the missing parts later. But I'm hoping to get the box (Langdon 74) tore down and get all the rust gone and everything oiled as necessary.

Before I launch into it, I just thought I'd drop into the brain trust and see if there are any specifics to look for and if there are any modifications or improvements I should make in you guys' experience. I don't forsee any issues with getting this thing cleaned up and fettled but this is my first rodeo too  TIA!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I've been into a few mitre boxes disassembling and cleaning etc. without too much trouble but, when it came time to work on my MF Acme Langdon box, I took some advice I found online and did not disassemble the swing arm. I could have easily enough but could not see any reason to. I just washed it good with safety solvent. Then lubed and reassembled it. Only issue I had was that the pivot bolt did not stay set where I needed it. I added a drop of red thread thread locker and it stays put. There is a set screw on top of it but even that didn't hold the pivot from turning loose. Looks like your elevators are keeping the saw up. What do the guides look like where the elevator dogs engage?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know Mike. Everything looks like rust right now ;-) It seems to be all surface rust though. I will say that the elevators are holding it up right now but that might be because the guides just don't slide very well at the moment. I have a feeling the dogs may slip when all the rust is gone and the surfaces are polished. Luckily, I recall the problems you had and the solution you found so if it is an issue, I know the answer ;-)

Thanks for the heads up on the swing arm! That's exactly the kind of stuff I am looking for


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd suggest putting a handle on that saw…


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody can use a saw with a handle Smitty. It takes a real man to use one like that ;-) Poa sent me the handle, I just figured I'd sharpen it before I put it on.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That Poa guy thinks of everything!


----------



## HokieKen

He really is a class act )


----------



## DanKrager

I'd use vice grips myself…

DanK

LOL.


----------



## HokieKen

You did say strip the swing arm down to the very last screw, right Mike?










I didn't plan to but somebody must have greased this thing with some bad grease because it was like it was lined with silly putty. Oh well, it's my first box and I like to know how stuff works anyway


----------



## HokieKen

One thing I haven't seen any information on in my research is lubrication. Any recommendations for type/locations of oil/grease?


----------



## theoldfart

No lube on the posts, I use just a hint of white lithium on the main pivot.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I use paste wax where parts rub like the saw guide posts. Now that you have taken it apart, you will want to adjust the position lock during final assembly. When the thumb lever is turned clockwise it should hold the swing arm in place in between notched set points. You probably already know but it is simply a clamping action.


----------



## bandit571

When I can't get to my miter boxes…









Let alone the tablesaw, and needed to cut a few boards to length…









Dig this out of the tool chest…needed a saw..









D(no hyphen)8 panel saw worked just fine…had to clamp the wider board in place…









Seemed to do the job I needed done…


----------



## JethroBodean

> One thing I haven't seen any information on in my research is lubrication. Any recommendations for type/locations of oil/grease?
> 
> - HokieKen


I've seen way too many boxes clogged with the sawdust mixing with the lubrication. I am to the point where I only use one of the dry lubricant sprays. And to be honest I don't pay much attention to a specific brand, just as long as it's a 'dry' lubricant. Anybody else? Do you have a favorite brand?


----------



## OleGrump

Tool Gloat: Wandered into a local consignment shop yesterday, and found this Stanley 115 priced at $15



























I thought this was in pretty darned good shape, and surprisingly, the instruction sheet on the back is almost entirely intact. There is certainly complete enough there to read all the information. I MAY use some self adhesive laminating paper on this to preserve the directions.
I had a good time tinkering with this box for a little while last night. Doesn't have all the "bells and whistles" that my later Craftsman miter box has, but it works well. To me, it's a plus that just about any old panel saw can be used with it, UNLESS you are making stopped depth cuts, then this box requires a back saw. Anyhow, in this shape and at $15, I wasn't gonna LEAVE it at the store…..


----------



## OleGrump

Are you smarter than a SIXTH GRADER ??? I was looking (elsewhere) on line for a little more background and general information about the Stanley 115 miter box. One person said "I guess, with a little more learning, you could figure out how to set the 115". I almost wet myself laughing at this "genius. Apparently, he ignores the advice to "Read, understand and FOLLOW the instructions that come with your tools". the instructions are pasted on the back of the miter box. Popular Woodworking has an excellent video on YouTube describing Stanly miter boxes. the commentator points out that before the mid 1930s, most Journeyman carpenters only had a SIXTH grade education, and did not know a lot about geometry. Therefore, the designations of 4,6,8, rereferred to the number of sides on a board or a box. "O" meant a 90 degree angle, and (I LOVE this) "W" stands for windowsill angle. And in case one DOESN'T have a sixth grade "education", Stanley provides the angle degrees next to the number designations in the attached instructions. I guess them there "KOLEDJE BOYZ" ain't smart 'nuff to figger that out.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

So I'm working on trim and small bits for my kitchen remodel/build and I'm using this thing that I picked up last weekend and realize I haven't posted it up yet.

This is a pretty remarkable Stanley 246. It's in great shape, has all of the little pieces that often times don't come with these things. Down to the two rear feet, sharp pins to hold stock, and the infamous lever trigger.

I paid more than what most of you probably would for this. I ended up grabbing it for $130. A price I'll probably forget 10-30 years down the road when I'm still using it.

I am missing the rear spring for the thing. I'll have to grab a replacement or like Kenny suggested prior, get two replacements so they match. Other than the one spring, I don't think it's missing anything else.

I would love to know the age of the thing if anyone has a clue. The guy I bought it from said it was from the 60's but I thought the numbers on top of the bed went away sometime in the 50's. I could be wrong.

Enjoy.


----------



## DLK

*OleGrump*: So is windowsill angle 14 degrees i.e. approx. a rise of 3" over a run of 12"


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Not sure Don. Haven't built window sill.


----------



## BlasterStumps

KellyCrafts, Not sure the age of the 246 but it looks good.

I don't think there was a spring on the rear post. I might be wrong though.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's possible Mike. While using the saw I have to push down on the front to finish a cut the way the stops are set. If it had a spring on the back it would be difficult to get the leverage to finish the cut in the back. However, if you release the saw and you're not paying attention (I'm really good at this) then the rear slams down pretty fast. A spring would potentially mitigate any damage, so would lying attention.


----------



## Johnny7

Blaster's got it right-front spring only

Your box is absolutely pre 1960s-It's also not from the 1950s, so '40s or earlier.

I would guess it's from the '20s or '30s


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## KelleyCrafts

Tha is Johnny. Then I guess I can call this thing complete.

It does have the bearings in it so that might help date the thing. I'm not sure when they started putting bearings in it. I'm sure some more of the more informed will chime in. Hand tool genius' on this site.

What I do know, I've been having a blast using it. Should be a go to in my artilary going forward for sure.


----------



## theoldfart

Just had an email from POA, he's having trouble posting here. He said that Stanley only had springs on the left front rod. None on the rear.
Fine looking box Kelley, when ya buying the next three? Ones not enough.


----------



## OleGrump

Your calculations for the window sill angle are correct ! You get EXTRA CREDIT for figuring that out. Take an extra 15 minutes at Recess. LOL


----------



## DLK

> Your calculations for the window sill angle are correct ! You get EXTRA CREDIT for figuring that out. Take an extra 15 minutes at Recess. LOL
> 
> - OleGrump


Actually I was curios if the setting W you mention for the Stanley 115 miter box turned out to be 14 degrees. But perhaps that is what you are telling me.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

> Just had an email from POA, he's having trouble posting here. He said that Stanley only had springs on the left front rod. None on the rear.
> Fine looking box Kelley, when ya buying the next three? Ones not enough.
> 
> - theoldfart


That'll be the only one I think. I'll build a stand for it so it's always ready to use. It can cut 4" thick and probably 6" wide or a little wider. If I want to cut something bigger than that, I'll probably let the bandsaw do it. Blasphemy I know.


----------



## HokieKen

That box is a beauty Dave 

I hope Poa gets his posting problems resolved! That guy is a fountain of information.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Thanks Kenny, I would love to get a date for this thing. It doesn't really matter for use purposes but it would be cool to know. I don't see any patent dates unless I'm not looking in the right places, no sweetheart logo and not a ton of research on these things available from my searches so I'm stumped. Not a huge deal though, it's a good setup and I'll enjoy the thing plenty.


----------



## RWE

Ran across this box while on a business trip. $45.00. I figure it is a 60's type of thing. I don't think I have ever seen any mention of a Dunlap box before. POA or anyone else think I ought to pick it up as a "rarity" or is it more like "junk". Seems to be in good shape. The little saw may not be original, but it is pretty cheap looking.

Chime in if you want it and I will pick it up and ship it to you. I know no one on here is a "collector". However, some of you non-collectors might have an interest.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like a dead ringer for a MF 200 miter box RWE. I'm guessing they branded it for Dunlap. Looks like the instructions are even the same but with "Millers Falls" removed.









Can't help with value other than to tell you that there are a couple on eBay right now and they're $40-50 shipped with no saw. The MF branded ones are listed for higher prices.


----------



## OleGrump

Sure looks a LOT like the Stanley 115 I posted above. Several makers seem to have been using this design….


----------



## HokieKen

> Sure looks a LOT like the Stanley 115 I posted above. Several makers seem to have been using this design….
> 
> - OleGrump


Sure does. So we have Millers Falls, Dunlap and Stanley branded versions. Sort of odd to see cross-pollination between Stanley and Millers Falls isn't it? I wasn't aware that either one ever produced parts for the other. Is this just a case of one copying the other? From the pics, they certainly look like identical products with different branding.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Finally found a nice piece of maple to make a sacrificial table out of for the MF box. I know the box wasn't designed for such but I like it better on there. Anyway, to hold it in place, on the back of the maple piece I glued some strips that sit down in the slots of the table . That way it is easy on, easy off.


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## OleGrump

I LIKE IT! Saves your saw and the miter box. As my father used to say, "Education is a wonderful thing, without it, you have to use your HEAD…."


----------



## theoldfart

A high tech mitre saw stand and wings!










I do not have enough room for a dedicated set up and since I have several boxes the workmate makes an ideal stand. Sixty pound bag of sand makes it stable.


----------



## bandit571

Nightmare on Elm Street?









Yes, the saw comes with it…









No…it is not from Xacto, either…


----------



## BlasterStumps

That's a big ol' saw Kevin. What you making with the 4 x?

Bandit, you get all done with your chest of drawers? Pictures? Looks like you are into electronics now or are those packages of hardware : )


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, fence posts for the front walkway.


----------



## bandit571

Chester Drawers..
.








Already upstairs, and full of clothes….
Hobby Lobby packs of hinges..









Handles..









And feet..









One pack of latches was a little too big..









Will save those for some other box project…had trouble seeing the screws…









And even snapped two of them off, THEN remembered to wax the threads…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for sharing the pictures Bandit. Looks like you are getting lots of projects done.


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## OleGrump

RE: High Tech Miter saw Stand: Hey! I gots me one a dem, JIST like it !!! Works great doesn't it? I have to admit though, it's been a LONG time since I've tried to cut a 4 X by hand……. Course, I'm not as young as I usta was…..


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## theoldfart

Grump, a sharp 30" saw helps


----------



## Offgrid_WoodButcher

I own the exact same Stanley #246 Frame 2 as Dave that I recently finished to restore.

You can have a look at the whole process here: https://offgrid-woodbutcher.blogspot.com/search/label/mitter%20box

From what I found this model was made after 1916 and around 1930 without having been able to find a firm date.

I confirm that mine does not have a spring on the back upright.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

That's awesome woodbutcher. I like the wood bits you mounted the miter box too for the bench. I planned something similar to fit in the dog holes.


----------



## Offgrid_WoodButcher

> That s awesome woodbutcher. I like the wood bits you mounted the miter box too for the bench. I planned something similar to fit in the dog holes.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Thank you Kelley, I really love this miter box and use it a lot since I restored it. Indeed the wood stand is very useful and allow to move it anywhere if needed.


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## BlasterStumps

I almost bought a Stanley aluminum A358 a couple days ago. I really would have liked to have it but just too rich for me. It was a SW model but no saw, no length stop rods or tree, no moulding stops and a big thick board on it. Just the frame with legs and uprights/sawguides. Oh well, one of these days I will run onto another one for less money : )


----------



## LangdonMitre

For those of you who follow such things, please note that the Langdon Mitre Box Reference web site is migrating to Wordpress.com from Google Sites.

The URL of the new site is: https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com

The migration should be completed within the next few days.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I almost bought a Stanley aluminum A358 a couple days ago.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Never heard of such a beast! Would love to see one.


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## BlasterStumps

There are pictures of the one I was looking at here: 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/L2533-Vintage-Stanley-Sweetheart-Aluminum-Mitre-Box-Saw-No-A358-Frame-no-3A/382600151144?hash=item5914bf0068:g:GMIAAOSwYCRbzMPS&frcectupt=true

If someone has deep pockets, there ya go. : )


----------



## theoldfart

LangdonMitre, thanks for the heads up. Will there be any updates to the contents?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Smitty, I have one of the Stanley tools price guides probably a 1980's something reprint of the earlier book. Anyway in that book it shows the Aluminum mitre box. I think they only made them during the SW era and the only size they were made in is the 358. I would guess that they are uncommon but not rare.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thx blaster, very interesting!
Now I know!


----------



## LangdonMitre

> LangdonMitre, thanks for the heads up. Will there be any updates to the contents?
> 
> - theoldfart


I had accumulated a few tidbits to add over the past several months but now that I've re-read the entire site from top to bottom it seems like it would bear some improvement.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'll add a link at the top of this thread for that content, thanks.


----------



## HokieKen

> LangdonMitre, thanks for the heads up. Will there be any updates to the contents?
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> I had accumulated a few tidbits to add over the past several months but now that I ve re-read the entire site from top to bottom it seems like it would bear some improvement.
> 
> - LangdonMitre


Perhaps but it's an excellent resource in any case and is much appreciated. I've used it several times


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## BlasterStumps

I found a Stanley 150 to work on. It is a bit rough but all there except for the table board and a little spring that goes in the swing arm to hold it in place at the angle that is selected. The reason I am posting about it is because the box has a SW era nameplate. It is the first 150 with that tag that I have seen but maybe they are fairly common. The box isn't much to show in a picture right now but I did take a pic of the nameplate. Here 'tis:


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ that is cool, I've not seen one before either! Trade?


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## BlasterStumps

I bought the 150 box mainly because of the nameplate. You might not want the box though Smitty. The box has a crack (see picture) but it does not go all the way thru. I'm thinking maybe some good superglue might be all that will be required to keep it together. It might could be brazed on the back side of the crack too. The clamp on the arm has been broken and brazed. It works amazingly enough but to make it right would require finding another clamp.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Finished up the Stanley 150. It's got a new table and is cutting straight and true. I was able to get the nameplate clean of all the compulsory paint spatters. I'll have to work on a saw for it now.


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## theoldfart

Wow, show room condition. nice work.


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks "tof". For less than $15, I decided that I would take a chance on it. It turned out a little better than I thought it would. I might mount it on a board now.


----------



## anneb3

If you happen to be in the Tucson, Az. area, Kent's Tool had 3 miter boxes _-seem to be antiue, were on a top shelf
so I did not get a good look. Looking around yard sales and estate sales, these are the only ones I have seen.


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## BlasterStumps

"anneb3", Kent's Tools looks like my kind of place but, I am a ways away from Tucson. Dagnabit : )


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Blaster: Wow! on the 150!!!


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks Smitty.


----------



## theoldfart

Put the mitre box to work trimming fence post tops.


















The repeat length stop is really handy since there are four cuts per post.


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## BlasterStumps

Nice setup you got there. "tof". I like the GP box and that big 'ol saw. Way cool.


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## theoldfart

Thanks Mike.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I had some ceiling trim to cut last week, used the workmate and Stanley 150. Little dust, no noise, results were spot on. Thinking of making a travel box for that thing now.

Good stuff, OF!


----------



## Aeneiad

For the last few weeks I've been restoring an old Stanley 358 Miter Box and I have a question on how the swing arm mounts to the frame. On mine, it's just a normal hex head bolt with a bushing that connects the swing arm to the frame. When the bolt is tightened, the swing arm can't move. If I loosen the bolt enough for the swing arm to move, after a few movements the bolt backs out and the swing arm is loose. Looking at pictures online, it seems that the original fastener was a knurled screw. Is there another part that I'm missing? Do I need to track down a knurled screw? Thanks!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Aeneiad, is that the original bolt and washer? Some Stanley boxes had a set screw besides the pivot bolt as in the case of the 150. I don't remember a set screw on my 358.

Anyway, I have a MF box that was doing what you describe even with the set screw tightened. I finally put some thread dope on the threads and let it set up and it doesn't loosen up now.


----------



## Aeneiad

Mike - I'm pretty sure it's not the original bolt but I believe the bushing that mounts to the swing arm that the bolt goes through is original.

I'll try some thread dope when I get home tonight.


----------



## KentInOttawa

This is from my late-model 358; no washer and no set screw. I just tried to loosen the screw (to see how easy it was) and determined that it is quite tight and staying that way. HTH.


----------



## Aeneiad

Kent - I should have been clearer in my post. This is on the back of swing arm.


----------



## Poa

Your bushing is bottoming out on the swingarm, instead of on the mitre box frame. This is a common problem when fitting a non original swingarm to a frame. Why it would occur on a box with all original parts I know not. I have remedied it by shimming between the frame and the bushing. I suspect each box was fitted individually, machined, by hand, where the frame, bushing, and swingarm mate.


----------



## Poa

Also, don't know when the change occurred, but the earlier boxes had slotted king screws, and the later boxes had hex king bolts.


----------



## Aeneiad

POA - that's perfect, thank you. I'll try shimming the bushing tonight.

I haven't looked into the age of mine yet but I'm guessing it's a later model being it has the red and black Stanley plate on the front. The hex bolt is definitely not slotted though.


----------



## Poa

I am not home, on an out of town jobsite, so can't show a pic.. But the very late boxes had a "wavy" thrust washer that went between the bushing and the swingarm.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Doh! I got the rear nut out, so here's what the hole should look like (more or less).









The nut is exactly 5/8 from the shoulder to the tip. It's about 16 TPI (as near as I can tell with my eyes and my gauges), and fits sloppily in a 3/8" gauge hole (maybe 11/32?).








+1 on the shimming. Let us know…


----------



## JethroBodean

Kent - If I'm not mistaken, the bolt being discussed is the Hex Head that is showing in the first picture of your last post, near the bottom of the picture. It is the bolt that connects the swing arm to the frame, not the bolts that connect the saw guides to the swing arm. But then again, what the heck do I know.


----------



## Poa

Jethro….what the heck do you know? Only the facts, sir, only the facts.

Looks like I finally got my lumberjocks glitch worked out, so I am delighted to inform you guys I can once again subject you to my longwinded, boring, and often irrelevent rambling essays. One wonders how you all managed without them. And you are really in trouble now, because I have this overwhelming urge to make up for lost time.


----------



## JethroBodean

Welcome back Jon…let the irrelevant, tall tales and out & out lies begin!


----------



## Poa

Damn….I didn't know you knew about the out and out lies! Can't we just call 'em fables? It just sounds so much more innocent.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon.::: innocent … hardly!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ditto, Jon. Welcome back!


----------



## Aeneiad

I just wanted to thank those of you that assisted me with troubleshooting the swing arm on my 358. I picked up a wave washer today and that did the trick. Thanks again!!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looking quite nice Aeneiad. If at some point you should want a saw trip to complete it, you can fashion one easily out of some aluminum bar stock. I have made a couple and they work same as a Stanley.


----------



## Poa

Is the millers falls mitre box page back up yet?


----------



## theoldfart

Yup
https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/


----------



## bandit571

Langdon 75….









Made a test cut in some 5" wide Pine 1x….checked with a square, after the cut..









Doesn't need a shooting board….


----------



## Poa

Olmsted No. 5. Heavy, kinda cool. But it escapes me what advantage this box has over a standard 'ol hardwood mitre box, except maybe longetivity.


----------



## JethroBodean

POA - I think you nailed it with longevity. But it appears that you can also adjust for plate thickness, similar to the Gem boxes.

Cool box, now I'm going to have to look for one of those.


----------



## Poa

Yep. The left side "guides" are fixed, with a steel pin, or perhaps a "peg" that is an integral part of the frame casting. Haven't taken it apart to see, yet. The right side guides are adjustable.


----------



## Poa

Oh…and you oughta see the other design of Olmsted. Last week, I foolishly passed up the opportunity to snag one off the bay, thinking it was overpriced. I wish now I woulda grabbed it. Who knows if I will ever see another one?


----------



## Poa

Heres a better pic. If, and ever, I run across another one, it'll be danged hard to pass up.


----------



## tshiker

Hi all! I picked up yet another Stanley miter box his week and need some advice. This is the first box I've bought that is 100% complete down to every screw, rod, hold down, tree, coupling and saw! But….(there's always a "but" lol) it has no model number. It has a tag and all the other info but for the life of me I can't find the model. I've included a picture of the tag hoping that will help. Has anyone else seen a box tag like this? Also I have every reason to believe the Disston saw that came with the box is the original, however the very readable etch does not say anything about being made for Stanley unless it was printed somewhere else on the saw and I just haven't uncovered it yet. Did all saws that came included with the box have that extra etch? As always thank you for your help!


----------



## Johnny7

The first step in establishing the model number (but by no means, definitive) is to start with the saw.
IF you know, or are fairly certain that the saw is original to the box, proceed as follows:

The frame is the *FIRST* number in the three-digit model number.
The saw depth under the spine is the *SECOND* number of the three-digit model number.
The second digit of the saw length measurement is the *THIRD* number of the model number.

We know that you have a frame no. 2.
We can narrow it to one of these models: 240, 242, 244, or 246.

You can see that all originally-provided saws would have been 4" under the spine.
So you need only determine your saw's length (20", 22", 24" or 26")


----------



## Poa

That is the first brass tag I have seen that does not have a three digit model number. I disagree that the saw is original to the box, because virtually every saw manufacturer whose saws I have seen provided with the Stanleys were designated as such on the etch. Simonds, Atkins, and Disston. My bet would be that your saw is marked as a No. 4 rather than being designated as a "mitre box saw". I have a No. 240, and the frame is definitely smaller than my No. 346 boxes. I do not have a pic, and am out of town, so can't measure it. Nor, if I was home, do I have a No. 244 to compare it to. So, I do not know if the 244 is a smaller frame size than the 346. Point being a 4" guide is a 4" guide, so determining frame number is dependent on more than just guide size.


----------



## Johnny7

> That is the first brass tag I have seen that does not have a three digit model number. I disagree that the saw is original to the box, because virtually every saw manufacturer whose saws I have seen provided with the Stanleys were designated as such on the etch. Simonds, Atkins, and Disston. My bet would be that your saw is marked as a No. 4 rather than being designated as a "mitre box saw". I have a No. 240, and the frame is definitely smaller than my No. 346 boxes. I do not have a pic, and am out of town, so can t measure it. Nor, if I was home, do I have a No. 244 to compare it to. So, I do not know if the 244 is a smaller frame size than the 346. Point being a 4" guide is a 4" guide, so determining frame number is dependent on more than just guide size.
> 
> - Poa


I can't say that I understand the point you're making here when you mention the 346 boxes.
The tag shows that he has a frame No 2, right?

Do you disagree that this places his model number in the 2-series boxes I have outlined in my response?


----------



## bandit571

A No. 2246 box in action…had to set up a stand at the work site…









Model number…No. 2246A…









Figured out the angle I needed to cut ( 19 degrees = 71 degrees on the box)









Saw is a Disston 4×24….as the 4×26 needs sharpened…









made a lot of cuts, that day…here is 1/2 of them…









Treated Pine. The Langdon 75 was a bit too large to haul outside…


----------



## Poa

Johnny, I don't disagree at all. Of course thats a No. 2 frame. I was just making the point that saw size alone will not determine a boxes model number.


----------



## Johnny7

> Johnny, I don t disagree at all. Of course thats a No. 2 frame. I was just making the point that saw size alone will not determine a boxes model number.
> 
> - Poa


Got it-thanks.

Here's a thought I had while trying to figure out a definitive answer (which may not be possible)
In the old catalogs, one of the columns of info next to each miter box is labelled "Weight box only" 
I notice that models 240-244 weigh in at 18 lbs., while the 246 shows 20 lbs.

I'm guessing that the extra weight is attributable to the rods, couplers and length stop.
My model 240, for example, has that disc embedded in the table, and no holes in the leg castings.

Thoughts?


----------



## JethroBodean

tshiker - Using my powers of conjecture, speculation, inference, supposition and assumptions; i would conclude that your box was sold without a saw. All of the other major Mitre Box manufacturers offered just the box without a saw. So I have to believe that Stanley did also, despite this not being suggested in any of my catalogs. If your box was indeed sold from the factory without a saw, then a tag providing a frame size only makes sense to me. In the usual 3-digit scheme, the first digit is the frame size, the second digit is the depth (width) of the saw blade and the 3rd digit is the saw length (4= 24", 6=26", 8=28",...). So if a box was sold without a saw than the only thing available to identify the box would be the frame size. At least that's my SWAG.


----------



## Poa

Jethro…I think you may be mistaken. To my knowledge, the Stanleys, (with exception of the early Trauts, and the smaller boxes, such as the No. 50, 50 1/2, 150, 115, etc ), all were sold with saws. Definitely, all the catalogue listings for the No. 240 on up to the No. 460 all say these boxes were sold with saws. The tag on this box, with just the number 2, is an anomoly, that we may never resolve. If it was a number designation applied to boxes sold without a saw, I have to believe that we would know of other examples. After all, the entire line of the Stanley boxes, from the Traut boxes forward, all enjoyed a sales success ample enough for numerous examples to be in use to this day. I have never seen this tag, and it would be of no suprise to me if we never see another. Also, the saw guide.length tells us what size height saw was intended to be with the box. So, it is illogical for a number two frame, intended for a 4" saw, (no matter the length), would be stamped with just the number two. Surely, when crated and on the shelf, a buyer could not be expected to open the crate and measure the guide to see what size saw he should use with the box he is buying.


----------



## JethroBodean

Johnny7 - With just as much speculating as my last post; I have alwasy assumed that once Stanley switched to the Rod and Tree length stop, then they stopped offering the embedded disc. The Rod & Tree was patented sometime around 1916.

What is the last patent on your 240?

My guess on the weight difference is that it probably took a slightly larger shipping box to handle the 26" saw of the 246. On the Stanley boxes, the Model number changes of 240, 242, 244 and 246 are not an indication of more and more deluxe models, but simple the length of the saw.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa - all of your points make sense, which is why I tried so desperately to indicate that I was making an out and out guess. I do pose one question to you; if one was to order a Number 2 Frame from the Parts List, what sort of Tag do youn think would be on that frame?

Update: Jon I have you now!! (I'm so happy) in my 1914 and 1915 Stanley Catalogs, the pricing list shows 2 sets of prices. One for "With Saw" and the other for "Box Only".


----------



## Johnny7

> tshiker - Using my powers of conjecture, speculation, inference, supposition and assumptions; i would conclude that your box was sold without a saw. All of the other major Mitre Box manufacturers offered just the box without a saw. So I have to believe that Stanley did also, despite this not being suggested in any of my catalogs. If your box was indeed sold from the factory without a saw, then a tag providing a frame size only makes sense to me. In the usual 3-digit scheme, the first digit is the frame size, the second digit is the depth (width) of the saw blade and the 3rd digit is the saw length (4= 24", 6=26", 8=28",...). So if a box was sold without a saw than the only thing available to identify the box would be the frame size. At least that s my SWAG.
> 
> - JethroBodean


The Stanley boxes were indeed offered without the saw.
Here, for example, is a page from the 1914 catalog:










By the way-I think you're onto something with the replacement parts frames lacking a 3-digit model number.
It sounds entirely plausible and would explain the scarcity of sightings.

EDIT: in the time it took me to grab and edit the image, you posted the same response.


----------



## Poa

Jethro…note the size difference between a No. 240 frame, and a No. 346 frame. That too contributes to the weight difference. I am looking forward to the restoration of this No. 240. It is a SW box, complete, with a mint original Atkins/Stanley etched saw. Even the bluing on the saw spine is in excellent condition. And, BTW, if you ever wanna trade off your No. 240 with the table insert for a larger box, holler, because I would like to have an earlier example of a 240.


----------



## Poa

Jethro…excellent point about ordering a replacement frame. Bears consideration.


----------



## Poa

Johnny, I stand corrected.


----------



## JethroBodean

POA - I'm glad you now see that there is a difference in size between a #2 and a #3. You once argued otherwise with me. In Johnny7 original post he was only discussing the 240 series of boxes and why the 246 was showing heavier than the 240, 242 & 244. Therefore my answer was only addressing the Frame 2 boxes.


----------



## Poa

Like so much in Stanley world, which sometimes seems like the Twilight Zone, I wonder if there was a date when Stanley stopped selling the boxes without a saw? Could that in fact have something to do with designating a No. 3 frame?


----------



## Poa

Like so much in Stanley world, which sometimes seems like the Twilight Zone, I wonder if there was a date when Stanley stopped selling the boxes without a saw? Could that in fact have something to do with designating a No. 3 frame?


----------



## Poa

Jethro…do you have a no. 246? Is it the same size as your 240?


----------



## Poa

Johnny, how long is your box with the No. 2 tag? Also, back fence height?


----------



## JethroBodean

I believe the No 3 Frame and the No 2 Frame have been with us from the beginning. They are simple 2 different sizes. Likewise the No 4 frame is a little bigger than the No 3. My first Catalog showing that series of boxes is from 1907 and shows models 24x, 358 and 460.

BTW: POA, it's nice to see you playing in the sandbox again.


----------



## JethroBodean

The only No 2 Frame I have is for a 2246. All the rest are No 3 Frames including a 360, which I had originally mistaken for a 460; until I cleaned up the tag.


----------



## Poa

Jethro…how long is the 2246?


----------



## Poa

Jethro….gonna stick to my guns about size. John Walter's book lists the 240, 242, and 244 as being 18" long. The 246 and 258 lists as being 20" long, as do the No. 3 frames, including my 360.


----------



## JethroBodean

POA - Wow that is truly an amazing coincidence that Johnny7 mentioned that in his catalog, the weight for the 240-244 shows as 18 lbs where the 246 shows as 20. Then you tell me that the length of the 240-244 frames are 18" and the 246 is 20". Is it possible there was a mistake in the book?

BTW my 2246 measures 18 inches long at the base of the frame. All of my No 3 Frames (that I took the time to measure) are coming up with 20 inches.

So do you have a 246 box with a 20 inch frame? I doubt it, but then I'm sticking to my guns as well, buddy! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Interesting discourse on Stanley arcane mitre box details.

Get a Langdon, simple and less complicated! 

this has been an unbiased blurb.

Langdon/Goodell et al/Millers Falls also sold their boxes sans saws with different model numbers. When you boiled it all down there were three basic sizes; 4", 5" and 6". Then a few specials; 2" and 2 1/2".


----------



## Poa

LOL! Well, Jethro, I found two No. 246 boxes on Ebay, and have asked both sellers to measure their lengths. I hate crow, my fingers are crossed that I ain't gonna hafta eat some more of it. I have had far too much crow already today. But hey, my 240 does measure 18", so, at least that part of the 18 weight/length "coincidence" ain't a misprint, unless they got the weight wrong.


----------



## Poa

Hey Kevin….there is plenty to fuss and muse about with the Langdons, too. Like why do I have a No. 15 1/2 with red edges on the wood, and another No. 15 1/2 with green edges on the wood? And whats up with the brass indent plunger knobs on some No. 16 1/2s, and steel knobs on others? And, uh, why ain't the GP No. 1625 in any GP catalogues that I can find? Oh my, I think my brain is gonna burst. I shoulda got into collecting bubble gum wrappers.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thank you for the discourse, insanely green over the #2 SW Frame.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, your thinking too much! Hehe

I haven't seen the green edged 15 1/2
Maybe the steel was a later iteration?
I never thought to look up my 1625, good thing apparently.

Smitty, yea that #2 is cool.


----------



## Johnny7

> Johnny, how long is your box with the No. 2 tag? Also, back fence height?
> 
> - Poa


18" long; 3 3/8" backheight


----------



## Johnny7

> Get a Langdon, simple and less complicated!
> 
> - theoldfart


What fun is that?


----------



## theoldfart

J7, I guess I lack the masochism gene


----------



## BobLeistner

> And whats up with the brass indent plunger knobs on some No. 16 1/2s, and steel knobs on others?
> 
> - Poa


Likely the steel knobs are wartime like the plane knobs


----------



## Poa

Okie dokie…heard back from two sellers on ebay who have listed No. 246s. Both responded that their 246 boxes are….(are you ready?) .....

20 1/4" long.

I looked closely at their listings, and both boxes have tags, and both tags say No. 246.

So, the No. 246 boxes are the same length as the No. 346 boxes. HAH!! I rest my case, obnoxiously, and with absolutely zero humility. What say you now, doubters? It is my contention that a 2 or 3 designation to the frames has to do with a chronological consideration, rather than a size consideration. So…there never were any No. 340, 342, or 344 boxes. These size boxes, with 18" frames, were only produced with the "2" prefix number. Thier frame size differed from the 246 and 258 boxes. The hole in my theory does not concern size. I am 100% confident that a 2 designation is not a size designation. The hole in my theory is chronological. My John Walters book tells me that there is considerable overlap on production dates for both the 246 and 346, which would imply a difference other than date of manufacture.

I do not have enough catalogue access to attribute this overlap to anything other than my John Walters book. A thorough search of Stanley catalogues, looking for when the 3 designation appeared, would be helpful.

EUREKA!!! I may have just found it! Notice the capacities shown in this 1949 catalogue. It may well be that the size difference is not in length, but is in the depth of the frame, OR, the length of the swingarm. It may be that Jethro is correct, but he is just arguing port to starboard, when he should be arguing stem to stern.


----------



## Poa

Dang it…now I gotta find a No. 246 to buy, just so we can put this to rest. Oh, woe is me. Alas, and rats.

But at least we know one thing for sure. The box with the odd tag, at 18" long, is no larger than a No. 244.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









2246A..
..








No Rod and Tree required…


----------



## Poa

Dang…sometimes the obvious hides behind over analysis. The capacities would not be affected, really, by frame depth as much as they would be by the distance between the front and rear guide post. I think the 2 and 3 frame designation question is getting narrowed down to a swingarm difference.


----------



## Johnny7

need to determine significance of two vs three-hole swingarm configuration.
(number of holes into which guide posts can be installed)


----------



## Poa

Johnny…considered that, but the two No. 246 boxes listed on ebay both have two holes on the front of the swingarms. Visually, looking at the pics, and comparing to my No. 346, it looks like the distance between the quadrant and the nearest post is less on the 246, but it is a subtle difference, that could just be a perspective illusion. Really, I am gonna have to get my mitts on a 246 to compare conclusively. Or hey, someone here must have a 246??


----------



## Poa

Need a rest from the Great 246 Debate of 2019.

(Trust me, though, the committee between my ears won't let it go for very long).

How about a short intermission, brought to you by the Olmsted Company…

http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?pn=339455&id=15883

https://archive.org/details/OlmstedImprovedMitreBoxes1899

I had a chance to get the box at the bottom of this advertisement, and felt it was priced too high. Dang it, wish I woulda grabbed it. Who knows if I will ever see another?


----------



## Johnny7

> Or hey, someone here must have a 246??
> 
> - Poa


Apparently, LJ Airframer has a Sweetheart-era 246-the subject of a multi-part, incredibly thorough restoration.

See HERE


----------



## Poa

This monicker of mine "poa", was concieved with political mindfulness. Years ago, a few people called me "pissed off american",and being pretty much true, the name stuck, and was eventually shortened to "poa". But my obsession with miter boxes, and trying to get the dating right, has convinced me the label was wrong. It should stand for "probably over anal".

So, with that in mind, here are what I consider the relevant measurements that must be acquired to resolve the 2 versus 3 earth shattering question of great importance that I must solve or surely I'll go insane. I am satisfied, via the two responses I recieved from the No. 246 ebay sellers, that the No. 246 and No. 346 frames are the same length, at 20 1/4". So really the relevant measurements that must be acquired from an actual certified, inspected, and duly registered No. 246, are A, (guide posts separation, on center), B, (table depth on the frame), and C, (depth from quadrant face to the back fence.)


----------



## theoldfart

So I gotta 244 but looks like that wouldn't help this discussion.


----------



## Poa

Nopers, Kevin. I have a No. 244 bare frame, and it is identical in every way to my 240 frame, including its 18" length. It is the 246 that took a jump in length. Thats a given. Question is, why, if it is the same length as the No. 346, does it have a deeper cut capacity. Is it frame depth, or merely guide post spacing? The world awaits an answer, with bated breath.


----------



## JethroBodean

> EUREKA!!! I may have just found it! Notice the capacities shown in this 1949 catalogue. It may well be that the size difference is not in length, but is in the depth of the frame, OR, the length of the swingarm. It may be that Jethro is correct, but he is just arguing port to starboard, when he should be arguing stem to stern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -


Sorry POA, I believe you have misread the table. The 246 has the same capacities as the 242 and the 244. It is the 346 that has the increased capacities. Why, because it is on the larger No 3 Frame. All of the 2xx boxes share the same capacities, and all of the 3xx boxes share the same capacities. I admit that I cannot explain why the ebayers both report a larger (longer) frame, my only theory is that your bribery checks did not bounce. ;-)

We all accept that the first number in the model number represents the Frame Number, do we not?

Assuming we do, and assuming, as POA (or Sir Anal)(Sorry Jon could not resist) insists, that the 246 frame is really longer than the 240-244 frame, then how would someone ever have been able to order the right replacement frame? Granted that would have been a rare occurrence, but in all of my Parts listing there is only one No 2 frame. Would the consumer have to "know" that their 246 box actually used the No 3 frame?


----------



## DonBroussard

With apologies for the rotated pic,










A = 9-1/2"
B= 4" or so
C = 6-1/4"

Overall box width = 18", excluding the added width of the tree.


----------



## Poa

Ah ha, Grasshoppper. Note on the parts pages that Stanley makes a point of specifying that you must include the model number of the box you are requesting parts for. That is how Stanley would determine which frame to provide. Note, as well, that the part number of the frame, is the same no matter which model number box, 240, or 346, you are ordering for. Therefore the only way Stanley would know which frame to send is by you providing the model number. There is no question that the 240 and thev346 frame are different sizes, right? Yet the frames share the part number. So Stanley is sending your frame according the the specific model number of your box.


----------



## Poa

Then, Don, the two ebay sellers are lying?


----------



## JethroBodean

OK then what explains the listing for a 246 and 346? Does the 246 use the No 3 Frame with the swing arm of a No 2 and the 346 also uses a No 3 frame with the swing arm of a No 3? And do me the favor of addressing Don's claim to have a 246 with a No 2 Frame (according to the tag) with a 18" length frame (Thanks Don)


----------



## theoldfart

Wow, this is getting good. Leander is laughing !


----------



## DonBroussard

Poa - My cutting surface is 18-1/4". The back fence is 3". I can't render a judgement on who is lying, though.

BTW, I appreciate your explanation on the origin of the LJ name. I have been a POA myself at times.


----------



## bandit571

Just exactly how many times can one split a hair?










I used to have the Stanley 358….until I sold it to Stumpy Nubs….otherwise, I'd add in those numbers…

BTW: The langdon I have….has a 2-1/2 frame….and is a No.75….more hairs to split?


----------



## theoldfart

2 1/2 = 5" saw

BTW, POA , the 1625 is in the 1938 MF/GP catalogue.


----------



## JethroBodean

OK Mitre (or is it Miter) box nerds, win or lose the argument, I have to admit I for one am have a blast. Sorry if you are finding it tedious or boring, but you have to admit this is the most action this thread has had for months. ;-)

BTW: We don't see a lot of Langdons in the wild, out here on the west coast. But do I have to admit to a fondness for the GP boxes, especially the pre-Miller Falls era.

Jeff


----------



## Poa

Ok…ok….uh…ok and ok. I am going to concede defeat. It pains me greatly to do so, and I may never recover. But the pictures of the two ebay 246s show non original wooden tables, that exceed the length of the castings. (Thanks, Jeff, for the offline heads up). I am seriously wounded by this, and may unload my mitre boxes, and take up collecting Pez dispensers. See what you have done, Jethro? You have ruined me for life. (Thank you Don, and Jeff, for the nudge into the light.)

But uh…how do you explain a No. 240 frame having the same part number as a Number 346 frame, eh? Huh, Jethro, smarty pants??? So there!!! HUH!!!!


----------



## Poa

Ok…ok….uh…ok and ok. I am going to concede defeat. It pains me greatly to do so, and I may never recover. But the pictures of the two ebay 246s show non original wooden tables, that exceed the length of the castings. (Thanks, Jeff, for the offline heads up). I am seriously wounded by this, and may unload my mitre boxes, and take up collecting Pez dispensers. See what you have done, Jethro? You have ruined me for life. (Thank you Don, and Jeff, for the nudge into the light.)

But uh…how do you explain a No. 240 frame having the same part number as a Number 346 frame, eh? Huh, Jethro, smarty pants??? So there!!! HUH!!!!


----------



## Poa

Sorry for the double post. This whole thing has rendered me unstable. To compensate, I am throwing some pornography at Jethro.

Take this, you Langdon lover, you!!!!


----------



## JethroBodean

POA - so you are correct that in the parts drawings there is only one part number. I assume this is because, but for scale, all three frames (No 2, No 3 & No 4) are all identical. In the 1949 Catalog that you referenced earlier the Parts List shows MB52 as the part number in the diagram. But then if you go down to the table with the prices you will see 3 separate columns with different prices:

240, 242, 244, 246 - $13.00
346, 358, 360 - $15.00
460 - $18.00


----------



## Poa

Yeah…Jethro, I assume that Stanley counted on you providing a model number when ordering a frame, thereby enabling them to determine which one to send you. Also, if you look at the swingarm listing, it appears that if you needed a swingarm, you had to get one fully assembled. Yet you could order individual swingarm parts, EXCEPT an unassembled main casting. Read that way to you? I have often wondered about replacement swingarms. As easy as the Stanleys are to work on, I have at times had trouble when trying to fit a swingarm to a frame it did not come on. The machining, sometimes, will be slightly off, causing binding between the bushing, the swingarm, and the frame.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea but there's two GPs in the pic!
If you want to unload the curved guides on that big New Langdon Improved id'd give you a helping hand.


----------



## Johnny7

So, to bring this full circle, I believe, as I said earlier, that the OP's tag (as per Jethro's theory) is a replacement frame.

If we accept the hypothesis that Stanley could only supply a replacement frame once they knew the model number, then the owner of a miter box with an already-replaced frame could not supply the needed numbers. But he could order a new frame by referencing his (replacement frame's) tag.

Also, Don's tag brings to mind, a question I posed earlier: why the difference in weights between the 1st three 2XX models and the 246??
(Jethro's speculative response about the weight of the saw missed the point; the weights I listed were for box only)


----------



## bandit571

Maybe they meant weight as SHIPPED?


----------



## BobLeistner

The 1907 Stanley catalog at archive.org shows the 346 to be different and separate from the others, yet still has the same stats as the other 3 series. The 246 is grouped in with the rest of the 2 series. Was Stanley simply trying to use the power of suggestion to get people to purchase a particular box that season?


----------



## Poa

So nooow he tells me…...


----------



## Poa

Kevin….the curved stops are useless for anything other than cutting long angles. Because they ride on top of the table, they can't be used as crown stops. So really, the box is just a collector's item for me. I suspect that at one time or another, a guide was lost then replaced, because of the difference in patina. Also, the guides are too separate lengths, but both are slotted for a 5" saw. The one guide with the shiny head has a spring catch, so I suspect it came off a later model box. Also, the elevator stops are different lengths. If you can shed some light on which parts are proper to this box, I would appreciate it.


----------



## bandit571

Kind of slow..time to wake it up a bit? Yard sale find yesterday..









A tad rusty..









Hmmm…









Well..for $4…might as well….clean up was about an hour in the shop…









Seems complete….blade is still sharp..









zero slop in the guides…just needs a better base…half the pads underneath are gone….
#64016…..









Not too bad..for $4?


----------



## Poa

Ah…..heres a score, and some luck. A while back Kevin expressed a desire for a Disston 2-1/2" x 16" for his No. 15 1/2 Langdon box. So, he and I worked out a trade, and he landed the saw. As these things go, wouldn't you know it, shortly after, I managed to piece together a complete No. 15 1/2 with a couple of purchases of damaged boxes. So then, I'm rueing trading off the Disston, because I have a mitre box missing a rare and hard to find saw. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't regret that Kevin has the saw. I just find it ironic how sometimes things work out in a way you don't expect. Which is the case here, because last night I landed a 2-1/2" x 16" Simonds, with a faint Millers Falls etch, a full 2-1/2" plate, and a perfect handle. And that is the EXACT saw these boxes were mated to. Life is good.


----------



## theoldfart

This is a hoot Jon, I was in on the bidding for that saw too! Glad you got it. I think the Simonds are the better saw.


----------



## HokieKen

Ha! So Kevin took Jon's saw then bid up his replacement so it cost him more $? You're a fiendish one Kev ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

As some of you will recall, I bought a box a while back, Langdon 74. Then Jon was good enough to swap saws with me so I have an appropriate saw for the box. I've got the box ready to roll and I started working on sharpening the saw.

Then I realized I don't really know what tooth geometry I want for the saw… So I went to my friend google and that was virtually no help. So, I figured I'd tap the brain trust  What is your preferred rake/fleam/slope angles for your miter box saws?


----------



## RWE

Not my words but the words of the man himself: Summerfi

"A miter saw should be filed crosscut with 15* rake and 25* fleam."

I have sharpened several now and I traded emails with Bob Summerfield on this question. Mitre box saws all seem to be around 11 PPI. It is quite a job to sharpen something like a 28 inch for a 358. Have fun. On the fleam, the sharper the fleam, the lesser the longevity. I think Bob stated that 25 was a good number for that reason. Sharp, but holds up a bit longer.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, I opened the bidding and waited to see if there was any interest. It wasn't something I really needed, just looking for a cheap opportunity!

RWE, Bob sharpened a few large mitre saws for me. I think he was happy to see them done.


----------



## Poa

So Kevin, did I snipe it out of your grasp, or were you an earlier bidder? Come on man, give me something to gloat about today. We're pulling the yawl out of the water today, to put fresh bottom paint on her. Not my favorite thing to do. Sanding poison. Oh goodie.


----------



## Poa

When I sell my restored mitre boxes, I usually give the buyer the option of me shipping the saw directly to Bob, then he sharpens the saw and sends it on to the buyer. Its a good arrangement. Still haven't made the plunge and got into learning to sharpen. Too much to do, too little time. Makes sense to send them on to Bob. I mean hey, who wants to buy a restored and complete mitre box with a dull saw?


----------



## summerfi

Hi fellas. RWE is right about the geometry on miter box saws. My customers have all told me they cut very well. Kevin is also right about being glad that I was done with his saws. At one stretch I sharpened 11 feet of miter saws for him. Yikes! The thing I dislike most about sharpening miter saws is trying to set them. Setting big teeth on a thick plate is no problem. Setting small teeth on a thin plate is no problem. But setting small teeth on a thick plate is nearly impossible. Fortunately a miter saw doesn't need a lot of set.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, I was the first bidder. When you guys got to 90 bucks I stayed away. Pretty sure I didn't mess you up.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the info fellas. I was leaning to 15 rake and 15 fleam so glad I asked. 15/25 sounds like a plan to me! Do you file any slope in there Bob? (Say no. I've never filed a saw with any slope and don't really want to start) ;-))


----------



## summerfi

No.


----------



## HokieKen

Excellent advice Bob )


----------



## Poa

Well, Kevin. Wasn't you then. Someone threw an 8 second snipe in that bounced it past 96 bucks on the screen. I threw in my snipe at 5 seconds. As usual, paid more than I shoulda. But whats a guy gonna do when he has a sawless No. 15 1/2 and Simonds pops up? Thats a no brainer.


----------



## Poa

My little Simonds 2-1/2" x 16" Langdon/Millers Falls mitre box saw, for one of my Langdon No. 15 1/2 boxes, showed up today. Kinda odd, though. Saw is in good enough shape, with a fair etch, a full plate, and an undamaged handle. But inexplicably, the flat plane, on both sides of the handle, had a healthy coat of what looks suspiciously like the Langdon green they used on some of their mitre boxes. Normally, when a handle is painted, I just assume that the person that owned the saw painted it. But this has such crisp border lines, and is such a close match to the Langdon green, I am thinking it might just be original. However, I do have another small Simonds Langdon/Millers Falls mitre box saw, a 2" x 16" for a No. 16 1/2 box, and it has no green on the handle, which I know is original, because it has a partial decal. Adding to the mystery, on two of my small Langdons, the wood tables, under the sanded finish, (rough texture to inhibit your stock from sliding during a cut), have a coat of green paint very close in color to the paint on the handle. So, mute point, really, because I have already removed the green on the medallion side of the handle in my zeal to get the saw cleaned up to mate to a box. Now, kinda regretting it, because I really think that the green may have been original. But committed, so I will remove the paint on the whole thing. So, what says the hive? Have any of you ever seen a Simonds Millers Falls/ Langdon mitre box saw with green paint on the flat areas of the handle?


----------



## theoldfart

I've never seen a Simonds with anything other than a clear finish. I think someone decided to "match" the saw with the box.


----------



## Poa

I know now, Kevin, you are right. I feel better about it now, in two respects. First, when fine steel wooling the screws, nuts, and medallion, there was green paint sloppily intruding on their edges. So, not original. Secondly, I left a bit of green in the grain, almost acts as a tint under the BLO. I will carefully clean the mitre box when I get around to it, and the two should go together quite handsomely.

And a bit of tiny mitre box saw trivia…

The handles on the 2" and the 2-1/2" are identical, even to the slightly skewed angle of the medallion.










This No. 15 1/2 is an extremely interesting little box, as it has cast brass legs, that are identical to the cast steel legs commonly found. I was baffled by them, because they so perfectly cloned the steel ones, I wondered if they could be a rare but original component. But in contacting the seller, I learned he had acquired the box at an estate sale of a deceased pattern maker and machinist. Mystery solved. I do have one steel replacement leg, and I believe I know where to acquire another. But I like the brass legs, and appreciate the skill it took to produce them.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice pair Jon!


----------



## Poa

Thanks Kevin. Now that I have two pair of them, I will not feel so guilty about restoring a 16 1/2 and a 15 1/2. I will carefully clean the two that are in the best shape, and restore the other two. The 16 1/2 is already most of the way there. I imagine the 15 1/2 with the brass legs will be the unrestored 15 1/2. I think it would be disrespectful to the deceased and obviously talented pattern maker/machinist to mess with it.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, used my 15 1/2 to cut trim for railroad car we're restoring. Worked well and easy to carry to the job site!


----------



## Poa

Just landed this saw on ebay. First one I have ever seen. Slowly, I am completing my No. 100 Stanley. I now have the fixture, the rule and stop, and, hopefully, if the postal gorrillas come through, the saw. All thats left to get are the two spacer clips. Trouble is, matching vintage to color is impossible, so far, by my research. So I am probably, but maybe not, putting together a complete unit of components that is not matched chronologically. To add to the confusion, John Walters book claims the No.100 was manufactured from 1927 to 1934. Yet my 1949 catalogue lists the No. 100, incidentally, described as "grey with red trim". Thats the katest catalogue I have. Will you guys check your later catalogues, and your ealier ones, and see if you find the No. 100, and if color is mentioned?


----------



## theoldfart

Nice star 40 Jon. What's the lower lefts maker? I don't recognize it.

Also a Marsh with the ruler! Noice.

Oops I should have said Stanley.


----------



## Poa

Hey Kevin. Thats a "Crown". Only one I have ever seen. Cuts compound mitres. Stumbled onto it on ebay, a year or so back.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US868634


----------



## theoldfart

Seems to have the same functionality as the Langdon 41, does it work?


----------



## bandit571

A friend of mine has dropped off a box…..90% of the parts for a Stanley No. 358…...Seems to be missing the block that holds the front guide assembly to the swing arm…..

Will post photos later today…..when I can. Have to sort through a few baggies of bolts, springs, clips….

Now…just have to remember HOW they all go back together….

Stay tuned…


----------



## Poa

I have plenty of those blocks, both early with the raised bosses, and the later ones with flatter faces.


----------



## bandit571

Missing block is the one that holds the guide base…..has 3 bolts. Both sets of rods have their base blocks,,,I do have the large knurled bolt that attaches the block to the front of the swing arm…

Also have to put the parts for the locking lever on the swing arm back together.

frame does have a brass name plate strip….2 small bolts to install on the right hand end of the frame.

Errands to run, today….will be later this evening, before a full picture inventory can be done….


----------



## Poa

I know the block of which you speak. And there are two different incarnations. The earlier one is kinda rounded, and has raised bosses for the three screws. The later ones are more squared off, without bosses.


----------



## bandit571

Picture #1 is closest to the missing one…


----------



## bandit571

Ooops, better lighting…..photo #2 is the one….Will have to dig through the mess of parts, and see IF the bolts are at least there…

Stay tuned….


----------



## bandit571

Ok, going to be a long post…anyone mind?









base block in question….have a broken bolt, and a good bolt for the two side bolts….also have both of the through bolts ( front and rear)...No block for the front, nor the smaller, pointy bolts….









Could be a problem?










trying to sort through a pile of parts…









missing the 2 bolts for the tops of one guide assembly….other two are a bit too worn…may re-tap for the next size up..









Springs? None of the brass depth stops have their bolts…3 out of 4 MIA..4th one, the head was snapped off..









Pointer plate has since been installed…with it's screws…









Guides do not have bearings…









otherwise, seem complete..









feet are intact…and are now installed..









Wondering IF I have this thing together right…









can't get the locking plunger to unlock. need to clean the rods up..









So the guides will slide better….









There are two pointy bolts, that come through the backrest…both are now installed. Slotted head bolts hold the stock holders clamps….need to make another set of holders. 
1/2' poplar to be used for the bed…as i have the full set of bed screws…and even 4 to attach the box to a bench…

This might take a while….


----------



## Poa

The repaired swingarm should be ok, because you can tune the guide post assembly to a true 90°, left to right, with the two pointed screws in the mounting block. Fifth picture down….I have no idea why you have all those springs. You only need the larger one, it goes on the front left hand guide post rod. 3rd, pic from bottom….the slotted and threaded stud is your adjustment for the swingarm release. Play with it, you'll figure it out. If not, holler. You may have the steel cross barrel in upside down.

I think I have a pretty good idea what parts you need. Pretty sure I have everything in my parts inventory. Catch 22 is that I am in Beverly Hills on a jobsite, and won't be back home to Tehachapi until Saturday, or perhaps even Sunday, depending on how this week goes. When I do get home, I'll take pics of the batch of what I figure you need, and we'll make sure we are on the same page. In the meantime, send me a close up pic of one of the brass stops. There are two different styles, and they take different styles of tensioning screws.


----------



## bandit571

Depth stop…bolt head side..









Threaded side..









seems to fit a 10/24 sized bolt…









Top/bottom view…


----------



## Poa

That answers my question. Some have countersinks for the screwheads, some don't. Yours do.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa/Bandit - I'm probably going to show my ignorance here, but what the heck! In bandit's picture showing the underside of the front of the swing arm (3rd shot from the bottom), there is a piece screwed in between the two post holes and is partially cover the outer post hole. What the heck is that piece, I've never seen that piece before on any of my boxes. Is it really supposed to be there. And assuming you are going to "yes", what purpose does it serve?


----------



## Poa

If its the piece I think you are referring to, it swivels over to lock the release lever in the disengaged position. In other words, to render the swing arm free to travel without the plunger engaging the indents. It is quite often missing, or bent in such a manner it doesn't work. I usually put them on my restorations, just because the boxes were sold with 'em. But they seem quite useless to actual utility.


----------



## JethroBodean

Thanks, Poa, now I have to go take a closer look at all of my boxes to see if I have that on any of them. Any idea when they first started showing up on the boxes? From the get go or were they added later?

Edit: Well the oldest catalog I have with that version of boxes is the 1907 and it does show the catch in the parts listing. I'll be damned, I've learned me something new today!

Edit#2: Unbelievable, of the five 3xx boxes that I currently have, only my 1909 (and the only one I've cleaned up) does not have a catch. The other all have the catch, now I just need to determine their condition. Thanks for the edgamication lesson.


----------



## bandit571

Last 358 I rehabbed was 3 years ago….








And is quite a bit newer model…









Than what I am working on now….sold the newer 358 to Stumpy Nubs 2 years ago…


----------



## bandit571

Tonight, while cleaning the guide rods….one rod, front and back, has 0-7" scribed,,,0 being at the bottom…

Now have a 1/2" x 6" x 24" piece of clear Pine, and the same size in Poplar…needs cut to length @~ 20-1/2", then cut for width….

Was going to pick up a bit of steel, and 2 bolts…..last time I made the stock holders. trying to remember the sizes I used…then I can cut the dados to house them.

Black Rustoleum will get sprayed on the "painted" parts….bright works will get polished up…

have to watch how the guide posts go back together…and remember which way the locks at the top face….along with that notched plate in the guides….Film in a little bit….just got me cleaned up…


----------



## bandit571

Depth stop rulers…









New deck?









Needs to be trimmed a bit?









Before & After…nickel plate was flaking off….









All cleaned and oiled…my, they were dirty…


----------



## bandit571

Tried to take things back apart, in order to paint the frame…









Got the non-slotted bolt loose, then used it to knock the block loose. About rusted in place…That slotted bolt? Never budged, even with an impact driver…Decided to haul the frame outside, and try soaking things..









Trying the spray from WD40 that is good about removing rust ( yellow label) Let this sit overnight…









Same here..plunger still hasn't budged…finally turned the frame over..









Filled that "smile" with more of the soak….rain was starting to show up, again…so brought the frame back inside…

This may take a while…need to wire wheel he guide block…cone and the bolt are a bit too "brown" for my tastes.
Thought MAYBE I could get the swing arm off the frame, and see what the plunger's problem is…besides rust.


----------



## Poa

Make a mix of 50/50 acetone/automatic transmission fluid. Best stuff for busting loose rusted fasteners. Far better than Liquid Wrench, WD-40, or Blaster. On the timetestedtools website, in the forum, I posted a complete tutorial on rebuilding a Stanley swingarm. I can't find it, though. I have a really difficult time navigating that site. Perhaps Kevin knows where the tutorial is, and can link you to it.


----------



## theoldfart

Is this it?

https://timetestedtools.forumchitchat.com/post/dismantling-a-stanley-swingarm-8472278?pid=1295352532


----------



## Poa

Yep…there is a follow up on putting it back together, as well. Thanks Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

And part two

https://timetestedtools.forumchitchat.com/post/masking-painting-and-reassembling-the-stanley-swingarm-8472795?pid=1295360973


----------



## Poa

Bingo. Thanks again, Kevin.


----------



## bandit571

provided I can get the dang thing off the frame….king bolt seems determined to stay put…..will see about a soak…

There is a threaded plug that seems to go into that open hole..









Doesn't look like there is anything down inside it….


----------



## bandit571

Picked a backsaw for this mitre box, today…handle needs repaired….5×28…$1..film at 2300 hrs.


----------



## bandit571

Not the prettiest gal at the dance..









Can either repair or replace the handle…









Has a Disston etch on the spline…giving the saw plate a good soaking…to remove the rust…









Brass medallion is a Disston one…4 bolt handle. 









Have a Drag Link to try to get a few bolts to budge….

$1 for the saw, today..


----------



## bandit571

Have scrubbed a bit on the plate…about where an etch would be….

GOODELL PRATT is starting to show up….need to do a bit more scrubbing…

Also, why would anyone "notch" the toe on these saws?









Front and centered…hmmm?

edit: Scrubbing has revealed..

"made expressly for" 
GOODELL PRATT COMPANY

TOOLSMITHS

GREENFIELD, MA…..USA

Medallion simply says Disston…2 stars….PHILA…

Already have a Stanley 5" X 28" in the shop…..This Goodell-Pratt Co. saw may been "trade bait"?


----------



## RWE

Bandit: Are you going to sharpen and set the saw? I have done a couple of saws that size and it is a process for sure. Looks like a nice find as long as the toothline holds up when you go to set the teeth. From the pictures the rust doesn't look too bad.

If you don't sharpen yourself, clean it up and send it to Summerfi.

Good luck.


----------



## bandit571

King bolt is now free of the swing arm….frame has been painted….letting the paint dry a while….need to paint the underside..except where things slide. Have the arm and a few parts that went with it, down in the shop..letting some oil soak down into the locking parts…

Just going to clean that GP saw up, for now…


----------



## bandit571

Hope I am not boring anybody….frame has been paint…









Front and back..









Swing arm has arrived in the shop..









and..









Weld bead cleaned up…









Side view. Parts have been cleaned up…









Was unable to get that bolt out…oiled the cleaned parts..









Trying to decide about a paint job on the swing arm…

may need to print out those directions to re-assemble the arm…
Stay tuned…


----------



## Poa

You need to get that bolt out. Those bolts are essential for tuning the guide post. If you can't get it out, you need to replace the block. Also, those barrels in the swingarm need to be removed, cleaned, and lightly greased. It is essential that they operate freely. I tap the brass barrel out with a dowel. The lever "axle" will come out when the steel barrel is correctly situated. You can read about that on the link Kevin provided on dismantling.


----------



## bandit571

Bolt still is frozen in place….just breaking pieces off.

barrels are now removed, all the gunk is cleaned off. May try to paint the arm…tomorrow. 









Camera is not talking to the computer's photo file set up….have to wait until tomorrow, when a new file starts…
Until then..this has now been installed back on the end, where it belongs


----------



## Poa

I will be home Sunday. We'll get it figured out what you need.


----------



## bandit571

New deck (Pine, 1/2" thick) has been cut to shape….bottom back edge has a 45 degree bevel, to fit the back corner better. Debating on whether to stain and finish it.

Have a bit of White lithium grease on hand, will that do to grease the parts back up? may start to reassemble later, after the paint dries on the swing arm….


----------



## bandit571

Swing arm has been masked, painted, un-masked, paint touched up…...will clean the over-spray off, later today.

Parts inventory for missing parts: 1 or both blocks….with the pointed screws. Have both through bolts on hand. 4 bolts for the tops of the guide rods. Those sit in recesses, not on top of the rod toppers.
Need to fabricate new stock holders, and cut the deck dados to match.

May need to replace the one slotted screw to help center the locking pin…









It is sitting there, 1/2 the slot was MIA. Have both of the bolts to secure the blocks with. Have the bolts and "keepers" for the stock holders….they used bolts, instead of thumbscrews.
The brass depth stop with the broken bolt…can still be used under the spring….the other three will need new bolts, as I use those depth settings a lot.

Think that is about it. I do have a Disston Made expressly for Stanley Mitre Box saw, 5" x 28" that was used as a spare for the Langdon 75 box, while it's 5" x 30" was out for a sharpening.


----------



## bandit571

have enough for one of these..









And the thumbscrew for the other one, bolts sit into counterbores..









New paint job?









and..









Stanley used a bit of red paint…so…









I do have one rod for the length stop…









With a bolt for both ends..









But nothing else. Name plate is now installed. Better view of the new deck?









need to make the stock holders, then do the matching dados. 1/2" wide bar stock would work? 









Something like this?









Trying to remember what bolt I used….drilled and tapped a hole in the bar stock, then cut a hex headed bolt to size, threaded it in, and ground/cut off the excess threads…

have a few errands to run this evening…catch ya later tonight….10-ish?


----------



## Poa

Bandit… you are confusing the crap outta me with so many posts, some seem to conflict with others. Heres a pic. From top to bottom…

1. Front and rear block with screws. (Do not have any extra early style. The later ones will work just fine.
2. Stock rest clamp thumbscrews.
3. Guide post cap wth screws.
4.2 ea. countersunk head screws for brass stops.
5. Large head screw for brass stop. (Only had two countersunk style)
6.brass stop with screw.
7.slotted stud for swingarm adj.

So tell me if thats everything, or, if I have added anything you don't need. Confused as to whether you have both guide post caps, or just one.

Don't currently have any cut stop components, rod, union, or tree, I want to part with.


----------



## Poa

Bandit… you are confusing the crap outta me with so many posts, some seem to conflict with others. Heres a pic. From left to right…

1. Front and rear block with screws. (Do not have any extra early style. The later ones will work just fine.
2. Stock rest clamp thumbscrews.
3. Guide post cap wth screws.
4.2 ea. countersunk head screws for brass stops.
5. Large head screw for brass stop. (Only had two countersunk style)
6.brass stop with screw.
7.slotted stud for swingarm adj.

So tell me if thats everything, or, if I have added anything you don't need. Confused as to whether you have both guide post caps, or just one.

Don't currently have any cut stop components, rod, union, or tree, I want to part with. The rods are easy enough, they are just 5/16" solid stock, which any H. Depot or hardware store usually carries. And yes, 1/2" bar stock is fine for the stock rests.


----------



## bandit571

Have both guide post caps. Otherwise, that looks like everything needed.

Stock rest clamps on this one, are just regular bolts.

Picked a pair of 5/16 bolts today, and a flat bar stock….to make new stock rests…

Kind of worn out, tonight…Grill Gazebo took a while to build….ran out of bolts….finally got it done, Daughter did a cookout..Burgers & Bratts, with a beer to wash them down.

Any kind of grease? Have that White Lithium stuff….


----------



## Poa

Yeah…lithium grease is just fine. I will go ahead and include the thumbscrews. Better than using bolts. Need your mailing address. You can email it to me at [email protected]


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, looks like you are having some fun with that 358. Looking good.

I'm glad you and others are willing to share pictures and write ups of your projects. Keep 'em coming! I haven't had much opportunity to work on tools lately. I am in the process of building a deck. I have also been doing quite a lot of gardening, irrigation and tractor work. Along with that, I have been trying to design a workshop which has taken a lot of my time too. I still check in on the forum now and then. Thanks again for showing your rebuild on the mitre box.


----------



## bandit571

PM sent, as I don't use gmail….

Too tired to work on the swing arm, tonight….

Grease is from when I was running Injection Molding Machines, making preforms that were than made into pop bottles for pepsico products. Grease anywhere near the molds needed to be "food safe".


----------



## Poa

The A. D. Hughes "Double Cut Mitre Box". Thanks be to Mike Stemple and Eric Robinson, in the FB saw group for their consideration of my mitre box obsession, which prompted them to assist me in acquiring these two boxes.

Patented in 1908, one would think that comparing these two boxes with the patent drawings would determine which box is the earlier rendition. But as things go in the antique tool world, both boxes have features of the drawings, and both boxes deviate from the drawings. The first box pictured has the compound mitre adjustment components pictured in the drawings, and the other box has the underframe components designed to tune the angle settings, that are pictured in the drawings. As far as color goes, the box frame on the first box seems to have a pretty well preserved original paint color, because the other box has faint traces of the same color. Interesting that green was such a popular mitre box color in the mid to late 1800s, and into the early 1900s. Green was also the color of choice for Langdon and Goodell Pratt on many of their models.

Besides the difference in metal components, the wood tables also differ in species. Oak for the first box, and a softer close grained wood, (poplar (?)), for the other. The second box did have a small back fence like the first box, judging by the screw holes in the back edge of the table, that measure identically to the other box.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would think the first box, with the oak table, is the earliest example. The indent locking lever mechanism on the other box is a better set-up, so one would assume that it is a newer improved design.

There has been some rumble on the internet, that I have seen, that "only one to be known in existence", or "only one other box like this known" about both of these boxes. Frankly, that is bull********************. I have found pictures of two others in other collector's collections, and have to assume there is likely more out there. Nonetheless, undoubtedly far scarcer than the Stanleys, Millers Falls, Langdons or Pratts.

Proud to have 'em in my collection, and to have internet friends that were willing to help me put them there.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US875819A/en


----------



## RWE

Congratulations on the addition to your collection. Will study the pictures a bit more later. Was this aimed at crown moulding work with the compound angles? I know that many crown moulding folks will use the coping saw technique to match corners. I guess the market it was aimed at would be speculative anyway.

What say you?


----------



## theoldfart

Great scores Jon.


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## Poa

I would say that the specific purpose was the ability to cut compound miters on any molding or framing application. I doubt they had a specific molding chore in mind, such as crown as opposed to casing.

And recently I put crown in a 3 bdrm. 3 bath home here in Stallion Springs. On a bet with the homeowner, I started with the two smaller bedrooms, which had virtually the same floor plan. I did one room miter cutting the inside corners, and the other coping the inside corners. Miter cutting was the sloppiest and hardest to fit. As I knew would be the case, (I won the bet), coping produced the cleaner joint, with less time required in fine fitting.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Congrats Poa on the very interesting mitre boxes. Thanks for sharing pictures of them.


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## bandit571

Swing arm is assembled, installed onto the frame..and WORKS! Was a PITA to do…axle had a thing about rotating…then adjust so the notched barrel fit the quadrant groove…I followed the "How To" article…

Deck is now attached….12 tiny wood screws.

Went to cut the bar stock to length, for the stock holders…3 hacksaws…3 dull blades…

Have laid out for the 2 dados the holders slide in…Maybe after a bit, I'll cut those and chisel them to depth…

Film in a little bit…


----------



## Poa

I will be mailing your parts tomorrow.


----------



## Poa

So, I have had mixed reviews on my tutorial at Timetestedtools. Tell me, was it coherent? Were my directions clear?


----------



## bandit571

Thank you !!!!
OK, task today was to put all these parts back where they belong…had POA's how-to on the computer screen while I fussed away..









Axle decided to rotate around…got that straightened out…FINALLY..









Top view..









Bottom view….and it works!...Then the King bolt….collar was a TIGHT fit..









Once that was installed, and the swing arm moved nicely…adjustments here and there…was able to add the marker









Set up the guides a bit, to get which goes where…









Round tab point to the saw handle, on the front guide. And down at the bottom..









Another view?









As for the back guide post..









A work in progress….
Deck was installed…12 tiny woodscrews…needed a pilot hole and a screwdriver..









Handtools building handtools….even clocked the slots on the screws..









laid out for the dados…









Flat bars were cut…need to get a new hacksaw blade, before I can cut the bolts to size….have to drill and tap a hole for the bolts, then assemble, cut and pean off the excess threads, and the hex heads, and round the sharp edges…easy, right…









have installed these keepers in the fence…and..









One foot is threaded for a leveling screw….will just make a new one…if need be…









These two bolts…flat head seems to be more for the coupler round top may or may not be the leveling bolt…not a biggie…


----------



## bandit571

> So, I have had mixed reviews on my tutorial at Timetestedtools. Tell me, was it coherent? Were my directions clear?
> 
> - Poa


Seemed to work for me…was a great help!


----------



## bandit571

Ok, metal working day….Those two flat bars…drilled and tapped both…once I found a SHARP drill bit…









Normal tap wrench was MIA…found out a 6" sweep brace drill works very nicely…









Old Tappett Wrench was just the right size, to run the bolts all the way in…then..









Old hacksaw, new blade. I cut the threaded ends off, used the grinder to "polish" the bolt flush with the bottom of the bar. Then cut the hex heads off…grinder to smooth the cut, and do a bit of rounding over…









I think these will do…is it "Stock Holder" or Stock Rests?
Need to cut the dados, next….


----------



## ksSlim

Ya done good, as my Dad used to say "make it happen, or do without"


----------



## bandit571

Needed dados for these to sit in…









Mostly used that chisel…after knifing a pair of lines…









One done…and..









two done….may go back and shine two other stock holders up..









Maybe…need to haul this to the shop, and add a coat of stain to the new deck…later.


----------



## bandit571

Stock holders have been stowed away..









Deck has a couple coats of stain applied.
.








A few numbers have been cleaned off, so they will show up better









And the 5×28 saw is all set to go 









Etch on this one reads:
Stanley
Made expressly for
Stanley Rule & Level Co.
New Britain CONN U.S.A.
by
Henry Disston & Sons
Philadelphia U.S.A.
Mitre Box










Pre 1928 handle. Before the 4 bolt version.
Getting about done…


----------



## Poa

Bandit….parts are on their way. The previous week conspired against me as far as finding a Post Office near my jobsite and motel. But I did get 'em shipped yesterday when I got back into Tehachapi. They are coming 3 day priority, you should get them Tuesday.


----------



## bandit571

THANK YOU!


----------



## bandit571

Jon: Box arrived this morning's mail….THANK YOU!

We have work to do….film later….


----------



## RWE

I had a Rockwell *"Motorized Miter Box"* saw drop in my lap this weekend. I will spare the details, but I was told that a friend had a "table saw" they wanted to get rid of and it turned out to be the Rockwell miter saw. Not to ruin the purity of this thread, I am going to post a few pictures and see if any of you have familiarity with this saw. I Googled up an old LJ discussion about it (*Model is 34-010*) and that thread stated that it was the *first* powered miter saw.

I was primarily disappointed when it was not a "table saw", but now it has caught my interest a bit.

It seems to only have the cutting width of 4 inches. It is not compound. It requires a sacrificial deck. It is supposed to have a blade brake. I have not had much time to play with it, but it seems to be functioning properly.

I assume it is a 40's or 50's thing? Anyone that has a good link to the history and time period on this saw, please post it. From the old LJ thread, there seems to be a bit of a following on these saws.

For those that know about this saw, chime in, but for others like myself a few days ago, here are some pictures:

Model Badge:








Front view:








Side view:








Deck and miter adjustment compass:









I realize that this thread is for mitre boxes and saws, but you have to admit the 34-010 is kind of cool. The LJ thread had posts from 2012 and the last was from 2016, so it did not seem like a good place to try to elicit some comments and feedback.

POA or Bandit: Did you ever disassemble or assemble one of these?


----------



## HokieKen

I got no help for ya RWE. But, I got a good chuckle out of the third picture. A rip blade on a miter saw )


----------



## bandit571

We have a complete mitre box…









Makes a nice cut..









Proper bolts installed..



























Need to get new thumbscrews for the tops of the guides, one was stripped…bar across the top has 3 holes that almost fit the thumbscrews….will adjust those, as well…to fit the new thumbscrews… Third hole in the bar relates to when the front guide is moved closer to the deck…Arm swings nicely…although the King bolt needed tightened up….









Swung around to the "4" setting..


----------



## RWE

The blade actually has the words Combination Rip and it is a Rockwell blade, so it is probably the original. The blurred out line above Rip is the word Combination. Blade brake does work. I read that it is set up with a belt that engages and stops the blade arm via friction. The tooth geometry does not look too much different from the blade on my Hitachi.

I cut a two by four and got a very clean cut.

My thinking is that this saw was seldom used and when it was used, it was by a hobbyist, not a tradesman. I actually know that. It belonged to my friend's (friend is in his sixties) father, so it probably was a late 40's or early 50's model. Will get the Google thing going later unless someone here knows the details or has a good link. It seems to me that the power tool thing occurred post WWII, so maybe the first powered miter saw trailed the introduction of the table saw and what I term a "Skil Saw".


----------



## bandit571

Back in the 60s..my folks had a neighbor…worked as a manager at the Rockwell factory here in Bellefontaine, OH..until they "downsized" and he moved to the "new" factory down in Cinci. OH….in his basement, was about every power tool Rockwell made….brought home for "testing" of course…


----------



## Poa

Looks good, Bandit. However, the spring on the guidepost should be on the left hand rod of the front guide post. It is there to cussion the fall of the saw when the saw hanger is tripped. And to assure a "toe down" attitude of the saw when completing a cut, lessening the likelyhood of a chip-out on the front of the stock you are cutting. If you note catalogue pictures of the Stanley boxes, you will note the spring is consistently pictured on the front left hand rod.


----------



## Poa

RWE…. very similiar to the first power mitre I had, a Makita. Heavy thing, and very limited. Not a great jobsite saw for finish work. But decent as a bench saw for cut off, face frame, and limited mitre work. As an apprentice, 50 some odd years ago, we did our field cutting with a large Stanley box. It was either a 360 or a 460, can't remember. It was a welcome step up for me when, now on my own, I pulled a trigger to make a mitre cut. Little did I know the evolution of my field cutting was just beginning. I now use a 12" Makita compound, the second one I have owned in 20 years. Or, for some of the more intricate stuff on field installations, I use my 10" Festool. But I hate to take it out of the shop, because the damned thing is so expensive. Anyway, I kinda hope this puts the power mitre discussion here to rest. Unless, of course, someone else wishes to chime in briefly. But I sure would like to know, waking up tomorrow, that we are back to talkin' about the 'ol push and pull method of making sawdust.


----------



## BobLeistner

RWE- the miter saw has the rockwell "peace" sign first used in the mid seventies. It is a bit older but not as old as you thought.


----------



## bandit571

Like this?








Added a lightweight spring to the back guide…to keep the toe from hitting the back base…


----------



## Poa

Yep. Thats exactly where the spring belongs.


----------



## RWE

Thanks Bob. If the LJ thread is correct and this model was the first powered miter saw on the market, it may have had a long run then. In examining it, it is so basic compared to modern miter saws. In re-reading the thread, the 70's are mentioned by several contributors.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/38809

I am going to put a deck on it and test it out some. I have a series of boxes planned and a good crisp cut 4 inches wide will take care of the sides on most of the boxes. Going to 90 degree the sides, then go with a router table and a 45 degree bit and fence to get the miter edge. All of the hand tool techniques I have tried for the long miter side have been problematic.

I will either use the 358 or the Rockwell for those 90 degree cuts. My modern Hitachi miter saw is too aggressive for those cuts. Table saw works well enough with a sled, but what fun is that?

First I will check the Rockwell for 90 degree accuracy. Two screws/bolts let you adjust the fence relative to the blade.
Adjustment for Fence:









Old deck removed. Cleaned up a bit.









All told and as stated in the LJ thread linked above, it seems to be a heavy and solid saw designed to do one thing well. it may earn a spot next to the 358 and the Hitachi may go on the shop floor somewhere.

In deference to POA, I will cease posting on this, but if it is in deed the first powered miter saw model made, then I think it is of interest and one can see the evolution (maybe I should use the term devolution) from classic mitre boxes to this one.

From linked thread:
Yeah, it's a fairly straightforward machine, just miters, no bevel, and the detentes are REALLY wide. Lock is a thumbscrew that bites into the table. And you need to add a wooden sacrificial table so the blade doesn't cut into the aluminum table, which it has a few times. *I didn't realize when I picked it up that it was essentially the very first miter saw.* Neat piece of history, anyway. When I got it I thought about using it to cut steel with an abrasive wheel but I think it deserves better than that


----------



## bandit571

Ok, the two thumbscrews for the tops of the saw guides, that hold the cross bar? May not have been the right ones..









Seem more for planes by Stanley….might try the Stanley 45 later..have a couple worn out slots to replace..









a 10-24 tap to chase the threads. Top bar has those 3 holes drilled…decided to tap them as well..









And used new 10-24 thumbscrews. couple of the rods needed the threads cleaned up, too. 









Front, and









Rear. And that should do it..









One BIG mitre box and saw..almost as big as..









My Langdon 75…..Dueling Mitre Boxes?

And a BIG Thank you to POA for the needed parts…


----------



## bandit571

Which brings up the next item..









Dropped out of here…









On my Stanley No. 2246A….thinking it came from here..









Not sure if I have it back in correctly…..front post.
About time to redo the deck, anyway..









This is the deck it came with….Mitre Box is in Black paint, not the later Blue. Stock rests fold out of the way..









So, since I do have a stick of 1/2" Poplar…









maybe a new deck is on the to-do list? Old deck has a "Pumpkin Orange" finish….hmmmm.


----------



## RWE

Final post on this subject for me. I did another Google search and changed the question to "first powered miter saw".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitersaw

The power miter saw was invented by Ed Niehaus, a tool designer for Rockwell, in 1964. The miter saw showcased several innovations still found today: radial arc spring action, blade braking and dust collection. Rockwell did not patent the design, leading to a large number of manufacturers and innovation improvements.[2]

I assumed that electric miter saws went further back in time, but apparently not so. The Rockwell 34-010 may indeed be the first model made. The saw that jumped into my lap last Sunday is probably as was pointed out a 1970's model, based on the Rockwell trademark (Peace Sign).

Now that you are enthralled with these facts, it seems the Radial Arm saw is the granddaddy of power tools, going back to 1922:

A radial arm saw is a cutting machine consisting of a circular saw mounted on a sliding horizontal arm. Invented by Raymond DeWalt in 1922, the radial arm saw was the primary tool used for cutting long pieces of stock to length until the introduction of the power miter saw in the 1970s.

I guess that is where we get Dewalt tools from.

Speaking of Peace Signs. I had long hair, John Lennon glasses, had probably just seen Jimi Hendrix or The Band in concert, when this Motorized Miter Box was created. Still listen to The Band and Hendrix, but the hair is cropped close now and is a bit white.

So no more Motorized Miter Box talk, back to Mitre Boxes and Saws.

*Rockwell 34-010 with new white oak deck.* Cuts a perfectly fine 90 degree cut without me having to adjust it at all.


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## bandit571

Hmmm, new deck, of Poplar…









Used the OEM deck as a pattern….used the just completed #358 to cut the walls for the stock rest dados..









Couple of chisels to remove the waste…check the fit…..deepen the dados a bit…now they fit. BIG 45 degree bevel along the back edge, done with a Stanley No. 3c….that is older than this mitre box. 









Screws were all phillips, and I reinstalled them. Only has 10….the #358 had an even dozen.

So…which way does this bolt go?









And, what it it for? There is a crossbar on the locking lever, unlike the 358. 









Hmmm?


----------



## Poa

That stud should be slotted on one end, or squared for a wrench. I have see them both ways. The slot goes down. The stud adjusts for saw depth, bottoming out on the crossbar on the swingarm lever. Its so that when you depress the lever, it raises the heel of the saw, out of the kerf on the table, enough to allow pivoting the swingarm.


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## bandit571

Ok, remember this saw?









GP Co. 5" x 28" backsaw….decided to go ahead and repair the handle, instead of making a new one..grafted one a piece of an old handle…









let it sit a few days….today, the Dremel came out, and smoothed and blended the two parts….then i installed the handle back onto the plate…









Then added a coat of stain…









Will let this dry…and then a coat of varnish…now…just "need" a mitre box for it…


----------



## RWE

Nice repair. I have also grafted on some old saw sections to make a repair. Nothing as extensive as that. I have spliced on a couple of horns with good results.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found this late model mitre box almost a year ago but the guy that had it wouldn't sell it for what I had to offer. Well today, I walked in the shop and offered less than half his asking price just for grins. Surprise, surprise he took my offer. That will learn me. : )

No saw and missing one of the stock rests but otherwise from what I can tell without a good clean, it looks fairly all there. I'm planning to wash it with some safety solvent then certain parts of it will go in EvapOrust. And, I'm hoping that I can remove the white paint from the casting without removing all the paint. Still on my deck project for a while yet so not sure when I will get to play with this new-to-me 246 MB.


----------



## Poa

Yeah… its kinda "late model". But not too. Only the tag betrays it. Fortunately its not an "A" or "B" box, with the skinny little stock rests and the short useless cut stop. And its complete! Good score!


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## BlasterStumps

I spent a little time tonight disassembling and cleaning the new-to-me 246 mitre box. One thing I noticed when I took the pivot bolt out is that there was no set screw on top of it. Is it possible they just stopped using them at some point. The cast frame is tapped for it.


----------



## Poa

Huh?


> Set screw


? Picture of what area you are talking about?


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## BlasterStumps

My bad. It is the Langdon box that has the set screw on top of the pivot bolt. When I saw that the hole in this box was threaded, I just assumed it was for a set screw. Sorry.


----------



## BlasterStumps

After a little cleaning, I reassembled the Stanley 246 mitre box. Partially at least. I looked at the old wood table and it is badly cupped besides having been cut into quite badly so I think I will hunt some wood to make another table. Once I get the new wood on, I will do some test cuts and tune if necessary. So far the condition of the mitre box looks promising except for the old table. I'm going to have to keep an eye out for a nice saw to go with it. I have a small Disston that might work.


----------



## Poa

Looks good. Cleaned up nice. Are you missing one of the stock rests?


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## bandit571

Walk into Lowes, go to the "Project Wood" section….pick out a nice piece of 3/8"-1/2" Poplar…









Cut it to size, and install..


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks Poa, yes one has gone missing but I'm good with it. I have another one if I should need it. How old do you think this mitre box might be? It has bearings in the guides. I'm guessing 1950's or 60's.


> Looks good. Cleaned up nice. Are you missing one of the stock rests?
> 
> - Poa


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## BlasterStumps

No lowes here but we do have a big box store that has lumber so possible that I might look in there. I sometimes find small pieces of wood in the local Habitat Restore. I have a really nice piece that I have been saving that i could run thru the planer. I'll get back to it in a day or two. Than ks. Mike


> Walk into Lowes, go to the "Project Wood" section….pick out a nice piece of 3/8"-1/2" Poplar…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut it to size, and install..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bandit571


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## BlasterStumps

New table made for the 246. Found a piece of Alder with some knots but it works. I tried a couple saws in the mitre box. One is an almost new looking Kromedge that really works well in it and didn't need any adjusting to the depth of cut. It sticks just a bit when cutting so I might look at the way it is sharpened or, possibly it is the height at which I was trying to use the box. Otherwise the saw fits and works really nice in this box. I know this mitre box is not an oldie but I could easily call it a keeper. I'll cut the molding stop cuts a little later.


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## theoldfart

Blaster, parafin on the plate. Should stop the sticking.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'll give it a try. Thanks



> Blaster, parafin on the plate. Should stop the sticking.
> 
> - theoldfart


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## Poa

Small delights. If any of you, (Yeah, I know, Kevin!), are into the small Langdons, you realize what a miracle it is to possess these stops. Trust me, I didn't exactly steal 'em cost wise. I have bought Stanley parts boxes for less than I paid for these stops. But, then again, I didn't get robbed, either, considering the odds of landing a set. This set is missing two of the small screws, there should be four in total. But the small screws that hold the guide post springs on the "23" series Stanley mitre boxes, (such as the No. 2346), work just fine, and are fairly easy to come by. So slowly, I am gathering an inventory of parts for the Langdon No.s 16 1/2 and 15 1/2. in two years of wheeling and dealing. Only by compiling a parts inventory can one hope to put together a complete small Langdon for anything approaching "cheaply".

So hey, 'scuse me if a set of stops like this are, to me, akin to the Holy Grail of mitre box parts, but really, they are.

The second pic is a set on one of my boxes. That set was acquired by purchasing a damaged box. So, every time you purchase a damaged box, to acquire one part or the other, your inventory inevitably grows. This is especially true of the Stanleys. Parts boxes are still to be had on the cheap. Parts I used to covet, and bemoan the scarcity of, have slowly found their way into my parts inventory, to the point that I now do not lack any parts required to complete a box. But trust me, it takes a while to get there.


----------



## theoldfart

POA, I drooled the keyboard damn you!

I'm going to have to resort to fabricating a set, I have the screws.


----------



## Poa

Ha! I knew that'd getcha, Kevin. If anyone ends up with them, its gonna be you. Be pondering a trade for something. Who knows, you might have something, or run across something, that will pry these stops loose from my greedy, warped, and sawdusty 'ol arthritic fingers.


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## theoldfart

Hmmm, gotta find something shiny


----------



## logdogww

I grew up listening to the metallic banshee screech of one of those Rockwell miter saws. I was actually talking to my dad about it a couple of weeks ago, because I'd just found a Stanley 358a and brought it over to show him. He was pretty sure he bought it new in the early 80s. The brake only lasted a few years, because I never remember it working. So, after making a cut it would keep on screeching while the blade slowly wound down.

By the time I was old enough to be useful on projects, he'd bought a nice Delta compound saw, so I only used the Rockwell occasionally. I do know he trimmed several houses with it, and it must have been accurate because he's very particular about seamless trim joints.


----------



## Poa

Here is 1/2 of a mitre box collector's wet dream. According to the Disstonian, the medallion on this saw was discontinued in 1875. And judging from the spine stamp, with its distinctly secondary stamp of "Millers Falls", the saw was likely manufactured before the move from Northampton, but stamped "Millers Falls" after the move. Currently looking for a correct box to mate it to. I think this Ebay listing may be a correct marraige, but it is missing the elevator stops, and appears to have some fairly bad rust damage where the wood table meets the back fence.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F333070876107




























More pics, next post…


----------



## Poa

Sometimes pics don't go so smoothly when I try to post 'em here. Heres the spine stamp, the medallion, and the etch.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, I'm pretty sure that spine stamp happened after the move from Northampton. Could be the inventory was moved to Millers Falls after the flood, just a speculation on my part. The box on EBay is MF's later reincarnation of the Northampton box. They took the original patterns and ground out the Northampton location and replaced it with Millers Falls. I'll dig out some timeline info and post it tomorrow.

Edit: Pic of Northampton spine stamp and pic of Northampton back casting









Edit:The medallion is *NOT* the same as Jon's saw.










There is a line of dots around the edge of the Northampton saw, the Millers Falls has none making it a 1874/1875 saw.


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## theoldfart

Couldn't seem to post two pics consecutively


----------



## Poa

Kevin, that was what I was trying to say, actually. Do you see how your "Northampton" stamp seems congruent to the rest of the stamp? Depth of stamp, letter size, etc? Whereas my "Millers Falls" stamp is quite obviously different in depth and letter size from the other portion of the stamp. It is my theory that Langdon ordered a few saws, anticipating a move, without a town of manufacture included in the spine stamp. Perhaps they didn't yet know where they would move to, or they didn't yet know how long it would take to organize the move to Millers Falls. After the move, they had an inventory of saws that needed to have "Millers Falls" stamped on the spine. It intriques me that you have a saw with the Northampton stamp. As a favor, can you email me good pics, so I can forward them to John at the Langdon site? Also, pics of the box? Thanks.


----------



## theoldfart

I'll get them out tomorrow Jon.

Also the move was not planned but a response to the flood that destroyed their building.


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## Poa

Interesting. If you compare the two medallions, you will note a couple subtle differences. Proportions of the keystones, and letter spacing.


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## theoldfart

Yea, yours is 1874/75 and mine is 1871/74. There are several variants during 1871/75, probably from the one to two sons name change.

One question I have, did Disston stamp the spine or was it Langdon/Millers Falls?


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## BlasterStumps

Had a little break in my deck project while some concrete pads for the steps cured so, I took advantage of the free time and tried to make my Craftsman Kromedge mitre saw look a little older with a new handle. I like it better now.


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## theoldfart

Looks mighty fine Blaster.


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## BlasterStumps

Thanks "tof". It was a piece of an old bedframe I found in the Restore. I think possibly Birch. Hard as heck. Burns blades and bits really easily. Burned my fingers too when I touched a hot blade. Not my favorite to work with but it's all I have at this time.


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## Poa

Very nice, Blaster. Looks fantastic.

Also, Kevin, what size is your saw? Mine is a 4 incher, 18" full plate, 16" at the toothline.


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## Poa

Kevin. I passed your question on to Mike Stemple, about who did the stamping on the Disston spines. Mike is probably one of three or four antique saw "experts" alive today. He says It was done at the Disston factory, because It is best done hot, which gives you a nice deep stamp, as opposed to a stamp put on a cold spine. That only reinforces my theory. If you look at the "Millers Falls" on my saw's spine, It is shallow and finer lined. Looks like It was done cold, which would imply that Langdon stamped the "Millers Falls" into a space left blank by Disston.


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## DLK

What you recommend for a small miter box for fine tiny trim work. Stuff thats has cross section no more than 1 inch by 1/4 inch? Is there such a box or should I just make a wooden one?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Stanley No. 150 is the smallest box I have and it works very well. Antique Langdons can be had that are quite diminutive, but they are collector pieces ($$). A simple wood box works well, too.


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## Poa

Don…the very small Langdons are expensive, and hard to come by. More than mitre box size, your saw's tooth count, and set, really determine the ease and accuracy that you can cut small thin stock. If I was doing a lot of mitering of small stock, I think I would make a small wooden mitre box, and go to a fine toothed tenon or dovetail saw, filed crosscut.


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## bandit571

$15 well spent?










saw was with the Mitre Box…and is a 4×26..with readable etch…









And a decent enough handle..
.








No label on the end of the box..









Nor with the patent dates…









Stock holder screws ( the little pointy ones through the back) and both stock rests are on board..









Missing one depth stop around back
.








Hmm, this might need fixed?
At the bottoms of the guide rods, there is no square, 3 screw block….there IS a round block.
Will see about a new deck, I think I have the extra depth stop….there is one spring out front.

Will need a bit of clean up….thinking this MIGHT be a Stanley No. 246? Front post is in the closed up hole. Guides do not have bearings…
$15? Same site, where I spent $0.50..









visegrips, and a newer Yankee drill…toat for one garage sale today…$15.50…..rather expensive day..


----------



## DLK

Thanks Smitty and POA. I think I'll make a wooden one miter box for my gent saws.


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## bandit571

Found the spare depth stop collar, and a thumbscrew for the broken off one…

need to get a couple desks switched out, before I can start the rehab…

Between the tooth line, and the spline, saw measures 3-1/2" ....too many sharpenings?


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## Poa

Bandit…the round block guide posts I believe to be the earliest incarnation of the 240 through 360 mitre boxes.


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## theoldfart

Jon, the specs on the Northampton back saw.

3 5/8" under the spine at the toe
3 7/8" under the spine at the heel.
20 1/8" at the tooth line for length.










Sending the box pics this evening.

Just for fun, the Northampton Langdon with the, I think, original Jackson saw.


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## Poa

Hmmmm….

Kevin. A couple thoughts. Is there any evidence these early Langdon boxes came in different sizes? Its interesting that your saw is a 20 incher, and mine is an 18. Also, the absence of a clipped heel on your saw raises a question: was it this period, 1871 thru 1875, that saw the introduction of the actual Disston "mitre box saw", which had a clipped heel, as opposed to the standard Disston "backsaw" No.4, that had the straight down heel?


----------



## Poa

Dang, Kevin. Now you are really confusing me. The Disston isn't the saw you think was original to that box? It was a Jackson? I can find no mention of early Langdon using anything other than Disston medallioned and Warranted Superior medallioned saws. Does that saw have a Jackson medallion?


----------



## theoldfart

Could be Jon. Both the Langdon/Disston and the Jackson do not have clipped heels and they are both in that 1870's period.

Take a look at the Disstonian . The 1890 catalogue showed a straight end, the 1906 shows a clipped end.


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## Poa

Well, Disston listed the #4 backsaw and the #4 mitre box saw as two different products. The first mention of an actual "mitre box saw" in the Disstonian catalogue section is in 1906, which like you say, shows a clipped heel saw. But prior to that, at least on the Disstonian site, an actual "mitre box saw" is not shown in the catologue listings prior to that 1906. Only No. 4 back saws are referenced.

EDIT. I take that back, "mitre box saw" is referenced in the 1890 listing, and again, as you say, with a straight heel. Bizarre. Some of this stuff I don't think we will ever figure out. Note that the Disstonian states that mitre box saws started at 20", which we know is not accurate, because mine is an 18 incher. Yet the catalogue listings for Disston mitre box saws do not show anything less than 20", to my knowledge. Need to look again.


----------



## theoldfart

So how does the 16" mitre saw fit into the picture?


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## Poa

Well, if you are talking my split nut Langdon…

The 16" tooth line saw is not a 16" saw. The clipped heel mitre box saws are size designated by the full length of their plates, including whats in the handle. So the saw is technically a 4" x 18".

If you are talking the 2" and 2-1/2" x 16" Disstons, I haven't a clue. I don't believe I have ever seen them referenced in a Disston catalogue.


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## theoldfart

I was referring to the 2 & 2 1/2.


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## BlasterStumps

I'm late to the party but just wanted to say, good find Bandit on the mitre box and other yard sale finds. The mitre box looks good and should be a fun project. That saw is a real beauty. Hope to see more of these items.


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## bandit571

Brass , plate, and spine have been cleaned up….Spine has the Henry Disston & Sons logo…film once a few other items get cleaned up….like clearing of the top of my bench…

Question is….is that a #2 frame, or a #3 frame?


----------



## BlasterStumps

open it up to see what the right angle cut max depth of stock is. I think the No 3 frames would cut over 9" with upright in front hole. I'm not really sure if that is a good way to tell or not


----------



## bandit571

Swing arm is "frozen" in place….took things outside for a good soaking…









Removed the "extra" plywood deck…found a surprise…









Also, stock rests have a "button" on the end..









Tried out the insert…









And the normal spot..









Length of the deck is ~ 20-1/2"....King bolt details?









And the other end of the swing arm..









Also, found some "degree" markings…









Did Stanley fill those notches with a contrasting colour?

Brass was shined up..









Letting this mess sit and soak a while, and let the warm sun heat things up a bit…

This might take a while…..


----------



## bandit571

Soaked for about an hour….swing arm is moving, now….

Does not have that "leveling screw"....otherwise it seems to be a complete mitre box….there aren't any holes for the length rods to go into…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Really nice bandit. I would soak that pivot bolt for a long time in WD-40 or something similar before trying to take it out. I used a wide screwdriver tip with a 1/2" drive head on it to loosen the one I have. Glad I had that tool. I don't know if I would have been able to loosen it otherwise. Anyway, great find. You will have fun with those tools for sure. Thanks for sharing the pictures.


----------



## Poa

Bandit…a number 2 frame is 18-1/4" long. No 3 frame is 20-1/4".


----------



## bandit571

Which make mine a No. 346 Mitre Box. 
Cleaned up the "keeper" in the front guide post…"Patented 1906" is stamped into the arm that holds the guide ( and saw) up in the air…...square tab. Back one has a round end.

I know that some OEM stock rests have their ends bent up, to form a tab….mine have a small pin/button added…

Trying to clean up the guide rods, without taking them out of the cylinder block….need a new wire wheel (Brass) as the old one sheds more than a sheep dog in summer…


----------



## Poa

Flip those saw hangers around. The round ended one goes towards you in front, the square ended one points away from you in back.


----------



## Poa

In my effort to bore the group to death, I feel an overwhelming urge to post further about the early Langdon split nut Disstons.

I recieved some pics of Kevin's Disston that has the Northampton Langdon stamp, and the 1871-1873 medallion. Mine has the Millers Falls stamp, and the 1874- 1876 medallion. Not to recap my last post on these saws, but just as clarification, I now disagree with my theory about the Millers Falls stamp. I am inclined to believe the arched portion of the stamp is a separate stamp than the underlying straight line stamp, and that second stamp was simply not hit hard enough. Find the last posting I made on these saws if interested.

So here's my latest "uhhhhmmm …. it might not matter to you, but it fascinates me" rambling blither..

Of note, and suprise to me about these two saws, is two fold. First, I was surprised to find out his saw is a 4" x 20", and mine is a 4" x 18". Although, supposedly, Disston did not make an 18 inch "mitre box saw" until well into the 1900s, it is not surprising that we would have two saws of different size. But my 18" saw has a clipped heel, which, by definition, makes it a "mitre box saw" rather than a designated Disston No. 4 backsaw. (And mitre box saws are not mentioned in the 1876 Disston catalogue). But here's the rub, it is unmistakable that kevin's 20 incher is an early "mitre box saw", because of the Langdon stamp on the spine. However, the saw's heel is cut straight down, like a standard Disston No. 4 backsaw. So, it begs the question. Who is it that came up with the idea of clipping the heels on mitre box saws. Langdon, or Disston? And did 1874 herald the advent of the clipped heel mitre box saw?

But the second part of the mystery behind these two saws is the size difference. I am unaware of these early Langdon mitre boxes being offered in varying sizes. So why the variance in saw length? Were the 20 inch saws deemed too much, and it was decided the 18 inchers were adequate for the size box being offered in 1874? Or, maybe the early boxes were offered in different sizes, I just haven't seen or heard of different size options?

And if that doesn't bore the crap out of you, here's the real wrench. It seems this Disston Kevin has is not original to his mitre box. He says the box was provided with a Jackson. The Langdon site says that the boxes were offered with two saw options, a top line saw, probably the Disstons, and a secondary line saw. The Jackson, I suppose. But no Langdon stamp?

So hey, if any of you have an early Langdon box, will you measure the length of the frame, and let me know? Perhaps there were varying sizes. And saw details if it is split nut.

Top pic, my 18 incher, with clipped heel. Middle pic, Kevin's 20 incher, with standard backsaw heel, but a Langdon stamp. Bottom pic, the Jackson, in Kevin's Northampton marked Langdon box.


----------



## bandit571

a few pictures…









As found…









Front base and it's pin, all cleaned up..









Insides of the guides…still need to clean the insides…had a BIG ball of webs from a spider nest…









What was done last night…









New wire wheel and a neck deck board (Poplar)...Old wheel?









needs tossed out…









Base does not fit in this hole, at all…









Fits fine here..









Cross bar, owner had stamped his name on both sides…









There is a Patent Date stamped here,,,"10-5-09" 









Relatives? Other one is the #358 I rehabbed a while back….with a 5×28 saw. Note the differences?


----------



## Poa

More mitre box trivia and general obnoxious nattering….

A few days ago I made an ebay purchase. A Disston backsaw that was listed as a 16 incher, at the toothline, with very little additional information. Proportionately it looked to me like a 2-1/2" x 16" saw, which seems to have been made by Disston exclusively for the small Langdon No.15 1/2, and the Goodell Pratt No. 1625.

These saws intrigue me, because I can find no reference to them in Disston catalogues, and the small Langdon mitre boxes seem to have been provided with Simonds saws, if the box was sold with a saw. So it has always kinda puzzled me why there seems to be more of these Disston saws available than there are No. 15 1/2 Langdon mitre boxes. Both are fairly scarce, but the saws I have seen offered these past two years far outnumber the boxes, which can be counted on one hand. And forget the No. 1625 Pratts. I only know of three of them, one of which I own.

So anyhow, I received the saw yesterday. And yes, it is exactly what I figured. And in cleaning the saw up, I noticed that there was a distinct impression on the handle around where the spine enters the handle. So, guess what? The guide head on a No. 15 1/2 Langdon fits the impression perfectly.

1st pic, saw as offered on Ebay. 2nd pic, cleaned up. 3rd pic, handle impression. 4th pic, mated to the guide.

And no, the No. 1625 Pratt guide doesn't match the impression in the saw handle.

It's interesting that Disston sold these saws, without, apparently, them being listed in their catalogues. I am beginning to think that they may have been offered as an option by Langdon. But it's kinda weird that the saws were not stamped "Langdon" like the Disstons provided for the larger Langdons were. Perhaps the small size, and the subsequent low price of the box, superseded the extra cost (?) of having Disston stamp the spines with the Langdon stamp. Or, maybe it's that the saws were meant for both the Pratts and the Langdons, and it wasn't worth putting explicit spine stamps on them, to simplify the ordering process. Or maybe the answer hasn't got anything to do with anything I have said, and I am just making a blithering idiot of myself. Not the first time. Won't be the last.

Ho hum. And, so there.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Jon, what size saws did they match with the picture framing mitre fixtures?


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster 4"x28" on the one i saw recently on CL.

Nice score Jon.


----------



## summerfi

Jon and Kevin - For what it's worth, which is probably nothing, I have a theory about the differences between Kevin's 4×20 straight heel saw and Jon's 4×18 clipped heel saw. Mind you, I'm ignorant about miter boxes, but I do know a little about saws and saw makers.

Henry Disston was notorious for being frugal. He was a master at redesigning things to make them look more modern while also saving money on materials. The skewback D8 is a good example. More modern design plus less steel used equals more profits for Mr. Disston. After making saws like Kevin's for awhile, I suspect ole Henry decided that 18" would get the job done, so why waste that 2 extra inches of steel. He also knew that the last couple inches at the heel of a saw never gets used in a miter box, so why not clip it off and save even more steel. The clipped heel looks streamlined and modern, so it was a three-way win. All speculation, of course, but it seems to make sense.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, difference between an original stock rest, and a replacement I made..









Should have made mine a little beefier…









All cleaned up..









Stock holders, too..









And both of the guide assemblies are done…









Waiting on a soaking to get a bolt to loosen up…









Bad news, under that black crud, is rusty crud….


----------



## Poa

Thanks Bob, great comment. And in the Disston 1924 and 1926 catalogues there is a notation about the clipped heel…

"Accuracy is the prime essential of the mitre box saw, which is used for sawing mitres for all kinds of work-picture frames, moulding, cabinet work,pattern making, etc. Disston Saws have long been recognized as the standard for this work by prominent makers of mitre boxes. Every one of these saws is tested in a mitre box, to insure [sic] accuracy, before it leaves the factory. Extra care is exercised in making these saws so they will run true and cut a smooth accurate joint."

"To prevent the "butt" or "heel" from catching in the work when the saw is used in a mitre box, this type of saw is made so that the cutting edge is two inches shorter than the entire blade. Because of the nature of the work to be done, the blade is made quite thin (19 gauge or about 3/64 of an inch), but is reinforced for stiffness by having the upper edge inserted in a metal back. It is a fine toothed saw, being usually 11 points to the inch."

"The blade is of Disston-made Steel, the handle of applewood, fastened with brass screws. The back is of blued steel. This saw is made in 20 to 32 inch lengths, the blade being 4, 5 and 6 inches wide under the back."


----------



## bandit571

Progress report: After 4 soakings with Blaster…including from the thread side of the bolt…finally just gave the head of the bolt about 6 good whacks with a hammer, right on the head….then drove a large screwdriver into the slot….assist from a large pair of ViseGrips on the screwdriver's shank….bolt came loose…and is now sitting in the parts tub, all nice and shiny. Swing arm has a "3" cast into it. Swing arm and the two legs are outside, drying in the sun, after a coat of black Rustoleum was applied.

Underneath the quadrant casting..there is a 3 digit number cast into it…..478.

Won't tear the locking parts of the swing arm apart….after that last rehab, one time was enough…locking arm works just fine. 
Stay tuned…


----------



## bandit571

Frame #3?









Casting number?









Checking for the size bit needed, old deck…









Must have been the right size…









All rehabbed up…









Dados fit..









length stop does too..









Been a busy day….


----------



## BlasterStumps

That didn't take very long. Nice job Bandit.


----------



## bandit571

So..any ideas as to the age of this 346? Might be a bit older than me…
Last Patent date was from 1909…

When did Stanley change from a round to the square bases on the guide rods?

Saw is from before the 1928 model changes at Disston, too….kind of narrows things down a bit?


----------



## tshiker

"So hey, if any of you have an early Langdon box, will you measure the length of the frame, and let me know?"



















Does this help? I don't have the original saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Tom, what is the saw size for your Langdon?

Mine, same specs as TSHiker


----------



## tshiker

Kevin, I'm not positive but the saw needs at least 6" under the spine and about 30" in length. There is a paper lable on the back of the miter box but unfortunately it's not readable. No model number or spec's printed on it that I can see but I haven't taken the plywood fence off yet, maybe something under there though I doubt it.


----------



## tshiker

Kevin, I'm not positive but the saw needs at least 6" under the spine and about 30" in length. There is a paper lable on the back of the miter box but unfortunately it's not readable. No model number or spec's printed on it that I can see but I haven't taken the plywood fence off yet, maybe something under there though I doubt it.


----------



## tshiker

Kevin, I'm not positive but the saw needs at least 6" under the spine and about 30" in length. There is a paper lable on the back of the miter box but unfortunately it's not readable. No model number or spec's printed on it that I can see but I haven't taken the plywood fence off yet, maybe something under there though I doubt it.


----------



## tshiker

Kevin, I'm not positive but the saw needs at least 6" under the spine and about 30" in length. There is a paper lable on the back of the miter box but unfortunately it's not readable. No model number or spec's printed on it that I can see but I haven't taken the plywood fence off yet, maybe something under there though I doubt it.


----------



## Poa

Weird, I have an email with Tom's response to Kevin about saw size, but it doesn't show on the site. Tom, can I see a pic of the guide, removed, with your tape next to it? Thanks.

Blaster. Not sure on dating your 346, except to say it it is a first generation 346.


----------



## tshiker

Kevin I'm not sure. It didn't come with a saw and the paper lable on the back of the fence that I assume had that information is unreadable. But I do know it needs to be 6" under the spine and about 30" in length.


----------



## Poa

HAH! Now I am seeing three responses from Tom about saw size. This site has always fought me.


----------



## tshiker

Sorry about all the duplicate posts, my tablet must of had a problem!


----------



## tshiker




----------



## tshiker

The longer one with the tab on the bottom is the rear post.


----------



## theoldfart

Tom, it's the same size as the one I have. Thanks.


----------



## Poa

Thanks Tom.


----------



## tshiker

Kevin, did yours come with a saw? If so, what size / make?


----------



## Poa

Pretty sure they were Disstons, Tom. Although, supposedly you could get the boxes with a top of the line saw, (Disston), or a lesser secondary line saw (?). Can't say that I have ever seen a 6" x 30" Disston with a Langdon stamp. Plenty of 5 inchers and 4s though.


----------



## theoldfart

Tom, a Disston. 28×6.



















Not stamped for Langdon.


----------



## tshiker

Thanks Kevin. I knew it had to be 6" but was guessing at the length. These boxes are beasts and so are the saws! I think they were designed with crown molding in mind. The antique store I bought it from had what I thought was the correct saw but told me they sold it to someone online. The box was too much trouble to ship!

Poa, yeah I tried a 5" and it wouldn't reach the bed. One day I might stumble across the correct saw and make it whole but I don't plan on making it my daily user any time soon.


----------



## bandit571

Sometimes..there was a Millers Falls label on the handle of the saw..









5×28 saw..








Found this at a garage sale….stand and all…$15









No. 75 ACME….


----------



## Poa

Well Tom, if you decide you wanna put a saw on it, holler. I have a few 6 inchers. Warranted Superiors, and I think I might have a Disston as well.


----------



## tshiker

Thanks Poa I'll keep you in mind if I do decide to look for a saw.

Nice find Bandit!


----------



## Poa

Older E.C. Atlins, 6" x 30". Actual plate height under the spine is 5-5/8", which gives you 3/4" from the bottom of the guide to the toothline. Lots of sharpenings left. Very nice saw, although it does have the usual staining on the plate..

Also, later model mint condition Atkins, 6" x 30". This one doesn't need words. Although it is interesting that such a large backsaw, which obviously should be used with a mitre box, does not have a clipped heel, which is pretty much a standard for mitre box saws. (This saw is probably spoken for, if I can ever find the time to put the deal together. Goes with a restored late 1940s No. 360 Stanley box.)


----------



## HokieKen

Alright fellas. After exhausting my best efforts and the fullness of my mental capacity, I'm sending my saw to Bob for "doctoring".

In the meantime, I want to make the missing parts on my Langdon74. Couple questions.

Does anyone have the stock rests that came with this box? I have a couple 3/8" carriage bolts and I'm gonna turn the top parts. But, would like to use the proper material and make sure they work the same. Any dimensions that you can supply are greatly appreciated!

Second, were there any kind of length stops supplied with this box originally? If so, anybody got some they can snap a few pics of

Thanks fellas!


----------



## Poa

Ken….can you post pics of the box? Kinda all depends on vintage.


----------



## HokieKen

This is the only one I have handy Jon. I can grab some more in the morning if there's particular things you need to see.


----------



## HokieKen

If it helps narrow it down, it's a pretty early model. No oillite or ball bearings in the guides. No threaded holes on the ends for length stops.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, what numbers are on the plate on the front post.


----------



## HokieKen

74 Kev. That what you mean?


----------



## bandit571

Ones I made..









Take your carriage bolt to Lowes, and buy a pack of "couplers" and 2 bolts to "top" them with..









I prefer the hex sides..easier to "wrench" these tight, or loosen…

Mine are a tad too tall…just never got around to trimming for height…


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, yea. There should also be something like 2 or maybe 2 1/2 which gives the saw size.


----------



## maddogio

I found an otherwise excellent Millers Falls 73C that is missing one elevator assembly. I can keep the saw up with one, but would like to have the rear one. It's part no. 14537, I think.

Does anyone have a spare they'd be willing to part with?


----------



## Poa

Maddogio…which one is correct for your box?










Ken…..Here's a stock rest. I have two, extra. But honestly, I would rather you jury rig some if you simply want a user box. They are hard to come by, and I would rather hang onto them. However, if you are looking to restore your box to original, and that's important to you, we'll work something out.


----------



## maddogio

I'm about 95% sure it's like the one on the right. I'll check in the morning.


----------



## HokieKen

Nope Jon, not looking to make it all stock. Those pics are perfect. Much appreciated!

Kev - size is 2-1/2.


----------



## HokieKen

Bandit, clever use of stock hardware for those stops


----------



## maddogio

> Maddogio…which one is correct for your box?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


It is like the one on the right. PM sent.


----------



## HokieKen

...


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, so it's a five inch saw measured under the spine.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep Kev. Well, it was before I "sharpened" it. Now it's probably closer to 4-3/4" ;-) This box originally sold with a 5×28" saw.


----------



## theoldfart

The 4 3/4" should do you for quite some time Ken.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I didn't actually measure it but I did notice it when I had it in the guides and there's plenty of life left before it's too short for the box.


----------



## Poa

Maddogio….replied to your PM. Let me know watcha wanna do.


----------



## JethroBodean

> I found an otherwise excellent Millers Falls 73C that is missing one elevator assembly. I can keep the saw up with one, but would like to have the rear one. It s part no. 14537, I think.


maddogio - Just a question of curiosity but was the elevator missing from the front or the back saw guide?

Roughly 30% of my boxes with those elevators (either of the styles POA asked about) have been missing from the back saw guide. POA does buy into this idea, but I think removing the back elevator was a common practice back in the day. Only one of my boxes was missing both.

Edit: Duh, upon rereading your post I see that it was indeed the "rear one". I stand behind my theory about removing the back elevator.


----------



## Poa

Jeff…his box was missing the one on the back post. Have we talked about this before? Man I must be gettin' really old.

But really, I don't understand why, if someone only wanted to suspend the saw in front, he would have to remove the assembly. Why not just lift the saw to engage the front hanger, but not the back one?


----------



## maddogio

Or maybe it's an easy part to lose, and if you have only one, placing it in front allows for better function that leaving it in the rear.


----------



## JethroBodean

It's a theory I've come up with based solely on what has been missing from my boxes. The only box that was missing the front elevator was missing both of them. Then I have another 6 (I think it was 6) that are missing just the back. The remainder of my boxes have had both.

I feel like I'm seeing a pattern of the back one missing. And I'm probably making more of it than is necessary and my sample size is small. But with 6 boxes missing the back elevator, it just feels like it is deliberate. And if it is deliberate, then I wanted to find a reason.

Clearly I am just a sad and lonely man without a real life! ;-)

BTW: POA, I last brought this up several years ago; you were much younger with a better memory back then.


----------



## HokieKen

I will say that I could see the rear elevator being a pain if you were holding crown or some other molding against the fence with one hand. A quick jerk on the saw tote would release the front but probably not the rear. Of course, that doesn't explain what was holding the back of the saw up to begin with… Or why it would be removed instead of just backed off. On my miter box (yes, I only have one sad and lonely one ;-p) the rear guide post is pretty snug in the vertical and I could probably hold the saw up with just the front elevator. Maybe guys would "pinch" the rear vertical receiver a bit to make the saw stay up with just the front elevator?


----------



## DLK

To insert the pice to be cut you have to lift up on both the front and rear elevators and lock them in place. Then you have to unlock the elevators to release the saw. This I find a bit of a pain, but otherwise love this box.

I think if you remove the rear elevator it you may be able to raise the front elevator by just lifting up on the saw handle. So you could rapidly lift insert, cut and repeat if there was no rear elevator. And if a part is removed it is easily lost.

I have to experiment with this be certain and I don't have my box with me. These days I am never in such a hurry.

The instructions do not suggest this short cut, but I bet some clever bastard figured out a short cut for something that required ditching the rear elevator.


----------



## bandit571

IF you balance the saw in the front elevator…the rear will stay up….pull the saw back until it is just inside the rear elevator….Then while you push the saw forward, release the front elevator….and make the cut.









Like on this Stanley #346….only the front catch was working at the time….back guide needed turned around, so the catch would engage a plate in the guide….


----------



## bandit571

Stanley #358 has a new home..









The other 2 boxes are just being stored, for now. Had to move the saw til a bit, and add a slab of plywood….









The #346 is back there, awaiting it's turn….will need to move the tablesaw out of the way ( we kind of cramped..)









Langdon #75…..I need to stop buying mitre boxes…..


----------



## DLK

If you do this:
Then while you push the saw forward, release the front elevator….and make the cut.
how do yo keep the saw from "slamming" into the work?


----------



## bandit571

You are holding onto the saw, right?


----------



## DLK

So your holding the work with you left hand (say) and the saw with the right hand. Do you use your third hand to release the saw?


----------



## bandit571

I use the stock rests…to hold the stock….doesn't everybody?


----------



## DLK

What are the stock rests on the 74c?


----------



## bandit571




----------



## DLK

No slots like that on mine. Mine looks like this one:









But I suppose I could use the end brackets. I just never have. Learn something new everyday.


----------



## Poa

Hey, check this out. Anyone ever seen a cut length stop on one of these early 1900 Langdons??? This is from a 1911 catalogue.


----------



## theoldfart

Ain't never seen one.


----------



## HokieKen

Mike (BlasterStumps) made one of those stops for his Langdon box. I intend to do the same because I need to make some depth stops for the guides and they're basically the same design


----------



## DLK

I picked up this made for craftsman Miller Falls- Langdon for $10 at a garage sale. All the parts are there, it works but needs a good cleaning. Can anyone tell me how I can tell if it a 74c or 73 c ? ( I think 73 c) ? It is labeled Craftsman 107.3650.


----------



## HokieKen

IIRC, the 74C has an adjustable length swing arm and the 73C is fixed.


----------



## DLK

> IIRC, the 74C has an adjustable length swing arm and the 73C is fixed.
> 
> - HokieKen


 No its the 1124 (or 1120) that has the fixed swinging lever.

I now belive its a 74c or 75c the difference between these two is only the length of the saw.

Yes its a 74c, I found the information here . (I could not find this when I searched earlier, but searching "Difference between 74c and 73c miter boxes" got me there by some miracle. ) My label is torn and I only saw "107.3650" apparently its "107.36500".

Also I see the slots that are featured in bandits model disappear around 1959.

One I clean it up and finish with the molding I need to replace in our former house that is still for sale, I will put it up for sale. Looking for a 28" by 5" saw for it.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> Looking for a 28" by 5" saw for it.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Well if I were you, I'd either buy one that's sharp or just have it drop shipped to Bob S. I spent about 20 hours trying to get mine sharp and finally gave up and sent it out there. One of the most frustrating exercises I can recall recently :-/ I have vwry limited experience sharpening saws though so you may have a leg up on me there


----------



## Poa

A few times when I have sold mitre boxes I have sent the saw to Bob to be sharpened before they go on to the buyer. Customers have always been satisfied.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, don't beat yourself up on sharpening a mitre saw, 11ppi and up is best left to saw wizards like Bob.


----------



## DLK

Bob lives down the street from (Bob Page that is) and he is also an expert saw sharpener. All the good ones are named Bob.


----------



## Poa

I have a 28×5 Disston with a very light Millers Falls etch. The saw is probably earlier than your box. Has a full 5" plate, and is straight. Lots of surface rust, but I don't think it is pitted. The handle has a couple of small cracks at one of the nuts, easy epoxy repair. It is tight with no movement, and both horns are good. If you want, I will razor blade the plate tomorrow, and post a few additional pics.


----------



## theoldfart

Whoa, hold on a sec.

Is that a MF boring machine I see Jon?

Typing is hard after 14.7 % alcohol stout!


----------



## DLK

I have sent a pm.


----------



## HokieKen

How about that anvil back there Jon? That puppy for sale? )


----------



## Poa

Hey Ken…

The anvil is a 150 lb. Vulcan. Honestly, I bought it to flip it, because my 100 lb. Fisher is all the anvil I need. And I ain't real crazy about Vulcans, because of their thin faces. But then, I made the mistake of cleaning it up, and found that the danged thing is almost mint. One tiny chip on the edge of the face, otherwise, perfect. It's a 1953, one year younger than me. So, I decided to keep it, unless someone ponies up 750 bucks, and picks it up from where it sits. Simple truth is that I like the anvil more than I like 749 dollars.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, you like the anvil a whole lot more than I like it too ;-). It's a danged nice looking anvil though!


----------



## Poa

Odd part is, Ken, 5 bucks a pound, around here, is pretty much the standard for a decent anvil. But no way I'd pay 750 bucks for a 150# Vulcan, even in as good a shape as this one.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…









Come back around next Labor Day….I think the fellow will be back… 








West Liberty,OH Tractor Fest…


----------



## HokieKen

I'd sure drive to OH if the prices on those anvils are in line with what you normally pay for tools Bandit ;-) I might even take one of those post drills home with me…



> Odd part is, Ken, 5 bucks a pound, around here, is pretty much the standard for a decent anvil. But no way I d pay 750 bucks for a 150# Vulcan, even in as good a shape as this one.
> 
> - Poa


Yeah, $5/pound is pretty on par around here too. Which is why I am still looking 3 years after I started…


----------



## BrentParkin

I have a Stanley 358A box that has been sitting on a shelf for several years. I want to give it to a friend and when I took it off the shelf, the rear guide seems to be jammed in the down position. I don't recall that being a problem when I found the box. But I sure would like to free it up before I pass it to my friend. (No idea why the image is rotated. It is normal orientation on my computer)

I can't even see where I would begin taking the back apart to find the problem. How do I attack this thing?

Thanks,

Brent Parkin
Regina, SK
Canada eh!


----------



## DLK

Have you tried spraying with wd-40 to free it up ?

So hows Regina? I lived there for 6 months in 2015.


----------



## Poa

Brent…That's an issue I have never seen before. If it twas me, I would remove the guide post assembly by removing the knurled screw that holds it to the swing arm. Flip the assembly over, set it on a piece of softwood, like pine, and gently tap on the guides with a block. Before you remove it, though, check to see if there isn't a slight twist in the two rods. Thats about the only thing I can imagine that would bind the guide castings.


----------



## BrentParkin

Don,

Regina is what it always has been. The sleepy little government town. I moved here 20 years ago from the Toronto area and it took some effort to slow down to the prairie pace here. But I love being here.

As for WD40, well the whole box was constantly wiped down in oil by its former owner so there is nothing that isn't slick as can be anywhere. But I suppose some more lubricant can't hurt LOL.

Brent


> Have you tried spraying with wd-40 to free it up ?
> 
> So hows Regina? I lived there for 6 months in 2015.
> 
> - Combo Prof


----------



## bandit571

Maybe run a saw plate through…as there MIGHT be a bit of crud between the two guides, forcing them apart just enough to jam things up..


----------



## bandit571

had issues with mine..
.








was feeling a bit sloppy…turned it over..King bolt was loose, along with the knurled bolt for the guides…torqued them down…and tried again









No longer wobbles….









May need a dust collector?









Works for me…


----------



## BrentParkin

Well I went with your advise.

Flipped it over and removed the tower assembly. I grabbed it in a machining vise and tapped away at the casting with a wooden block and a 1lb dead blow mallet. Slowly it moved, then easier and easier until it slid to the top.

Looks like a little corrosion was holding it. So I grabbed a fine rust eraser and went at the steel rods with it. Wiped it clean and added a little oil. It is now sliding slicker than stuff through a goose.









I'm very pleased. The young fellow I am giving it to will give it a good home. It's going to see plenty of use the next 40-50 years with him.

Thanks for the suggestion.


> Brent…That s an issue I have never seen before. If it twas me, I would remove the guide post assembly by removing the knurled screw that holds it to the swing arm. Flip the assembly over, set it on a piece of softwood, like pine, and gently tap on the guides with a block. Before you remove it, though, check to see if there isn t a slight twist in the two rods. Thats about the only thing I can imagine that would bind the guide castings.
> 
> - Poa


----------



## bandit571

Ok..Kevin sent me this "Thimblerig".....now I need to find out what exactly it is..













































Unless it is for use on a sawhorse? Seems to be a miter saw guide….


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like 1/2 of a miter box Bandit. Maybe Kev will send you the other half for Christmas? ;-)


----------



## Poa

It's not half a fixture. It is complete. Stearns made a real nice one, a bit different than that, but basically the same concept. Also, there is the "Red Devil", which is the same as yours. Plus a couple other outfits had similiar clones. We like to think mitre "boxes" were the answer back when, but there were quite a few mitering fixtures that didn't even vaguely resemble a "box". Looks like yours may be missing the wooden disc that keeps the saw from hitting metal. Hard to tell from your pics.


----------



## bandit571

Bolt is there, no disc….simple fix…hole saw of the right size. May have to dig around in the can of hole saws I have…


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, Jon is correct, it's complete.

They were supposed to allow a carpenter to cut trim work while on a ladder. it just clamps to the board. this is Langdons version but they operate on the same principal.










Bandit, a thick fibre washer will work as well.

Nice collection Jon. I'm on the lookout for a Star 40 to compliment the Star 41.


----------



## DLK

So, *Poa* what are these "Thimblerig"s actually called. I'd like to find and try one out.


----------



## Poa

Don…

Good question. My preference is to call them "mitre fixtures", but mostly I see them called "mitre boxes" when offered for sale. Sometimes, even, "unidentified tools". Trust me, the "unidentified tools" are usually cheaper.

I have a few of them, but only one of the Stearns model, which is the best fixture of this basic design. I am at my jobsite in Bev Hills. So won't be home until Saturday. If you are interested, I will post better pics Saturday, showing the differences. I will part with one of the others, just not the Stearns. It's the only one I have ran across.

http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?pn=692302&id=15455


----------



## DLK

Sure. I did high school in Syracuse, so Sterns would have been my preference but only for sentimental reasons. But we can talk.

I really do like my MF-L box (i guess now I have two), but eventually after a few sharpening you have to replace the saw with a new one. So I am intrigued on how well these "fixtures" will work, because they can use any handsaw.


----------



## Poa

Don….. I can attest that if you are looking for a box that can be used with a standard crosscut hand saw, the Stanley No.150 cannot be beat. Of course, your handsaw should have no less than 11 tpi, and a proper set, unless you are using a shooting board.

Here's a cool 150 I recently ran across in a junk store, with a user fabricated base….


----------



## Poa

Come to think of it, the Stanley Type 1 style box, with the roller guides, ain't too shabby either, if wanting a box you can use with standard handsaw.

http://www.datamp.org/patents/search/advance.php?pn=192139&id=10111&set=22


----------



## bandit571

Then there is the one called GEM….that folds up to stash in the tool box. have used a D-8 Panel saw in it, a few times….10ppi.


----------



## Poa

Here's another very very cool "mitre fixture". The "Crown". I have only seen two of these. You can set it to cut compound mitres. By far my favorite "fixture".

https://patents.google.com/patent/US868634


----------



## theoldfart

FYI, Langdon referred to them as the Star Mitre Box. The Langdon Star 40 first appeared in the March 1902 price list.










I'm not sure when the Star 41 made its debut. The 40 is adjustable in one plane, the 41 can do compound a mitre.


----------



## Poa

Kevin… I recently scored a No. 41. Already had a No. 40. The 41 is a very fine tool. When I received it, I was surprised at its bulk. A very substantial and sturdy tool for its size.


----------



## Poa




----------



## theoldfart

Jon, if you "stumble" on another 40 I'll buy it from you. Need to get my Non-Collection of Langdons closer to completion!


----------



## Poa

Gee, Kevin, you are a non-collector too?


----------



## theoldfart

who me?


----------



## DLK

O.K. I will look for one of these "fixtures". I know I have seen the 150s around.


----------



## Poa

Don, if you don't find a decent 150, holler. I always have five or six being restored at a time. Bad Ax saw works swears by the 150s. When you look at them, check to see if the spring that pinches the guides together is in place. They are quite often missing, and the box is useless without that spring. The good part is that a replacement is easily fabricated. I cut them out of window screen springs.


----------



## Poa

I think I posted about this before. But I am a pretty boring, yet compulsive, kinda guy. So, uh, bear with me. Or not.

But the 150's are not a Stanley creation. They are predated by the Jacobs mitre box, which Stanley nearly exactly duplicated, after buying out Jacobs. The Jacobs boxes were offered in two sizes, the No. 4, and the No. 5. The No. 4 is slightly larger than the Stanley No. 150. The No. 5 is about the same size as a No. 3 frame Stanley.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US414544


----------



## DLK

O.K. I will. Is $25 (includes shipping) too much for an E.C. Sterns ?


----------



## Poa

Don…

Be careful what Stearns you are into buying. I am not speaking about the Searns that has the wooden back fence and table. I can't speak from practical knowledge about that box, because I have never tried one. But I have tried similar boxes, such as the "Perfection", and the Stanley No. 115, and they haven't impressed me. Here's the Stearns fixture I am talking about….


----------



## DLK

ACK, well I screwed up then. I put in a low bid and got this










for just under $25. I thought it was a good deal. Oh well. I did do some looking around and it was the only EC Sterns I saw. Should have checked first with the master.


----------



## Poa

Well, chin up, Don. I have never tried one. You might discover its an excellent box. For less than the price of a decent restaurant steak.


----------



## DLK

I see now in the 1924 catalog, pages 18 and 19 E.C. sterns offered 3 miter boxes No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3.



















but later ,as seen in catalog number 34, they only offer No 2.










Noting the differences I see the No. 2 that I have arriving in the mail must be the earlier model. And the one you recommend to me in the number 1, and I can see why you do. I guess this means I will have to collect all 3. I tried to avoid collecting miter boxes, but now I have 6.


----------



## DLK

> Well, chin up, Don. I have never tried one. You might discover its an excellent box. For less than the price of a decent restaurant steak.
> 
> - Poa


Serves me right for buying when I am ill, and overstressed. Just found that my wife needs hand surgery and our university insurance has such a high deductible, we will have to pay for it out of pocket. Maybe $5,000. one year to go and we have medicare.


----------



## DLK

So did Miller Falls copy E.C. Stearns or was it the other way around or did MF buy out E.C. S? This MF box:










sure looks like the E.C. Stearns No. 2 to me.


----------



## BobLeistner

Could those of you who have a good label, photograph them so there is a permanent record of them. Some of us might like to make a copy to make our boxes look complete, even if it is a copy. Thank you in advance.


----------



## Tim457

> Here s another very very cool "mitre fixture". The "Crown". I have only seen two of these. You can set it to cut compound mitres. By far my favorite "fixture".
> 
> https://patents.google.com/patent/US868634
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


That thing is slicker than snot. I have a mitre box that will cut compound mitres but it isn't a high quality tool and it has too much wiggle. Yours looks like it can hold a setting.


----------



## Poa

Tim….

Compound mitres? Check this out….

https://patents.google.com/patent/US875819A/en


----------



## bandit571

Set the mitre box to one angle, slide and clamp a wedge under the stock….wedge is cut to the second angle. Olde School ways…


----------



## HokieKen

Finally got around to making some stick rests for my Langdon box.









I'll either mill a screwdriver slot or some wrench flats later if needed.

They even nest as intended…









Thanks for the pics POA!


----------



## DLK

Those look nice.


----------



## Poa

Well done man. You shoulda maybe done a few sets, I know at least two people on the hunt for some.


----------



## HokieKen

> Well done man. You shoulda maybe done a few sets, I know at least two people on the hunt for some.
> 
> - Poa


Easy enough to make a couple more sets Jon. Shoot me an e-mail or PM if you/they want me to!


----------



## bandit571

Have a friend with a #358….that has hairline cracks near the bearings on the guides….should he leave them alone, or, try and find (good luck) replacement guides….?


----------



## Poa

All four guide castings have cracks? I have six 5" castings with bearings.


----------



## bandit571

Apparently, it is one hairline crack in one 1/2 of one guide…..Maybe a JB Weld fix? Maybe a previous owner had cranked the bolt for the bearing a tad too much?


----------



## OleGrump

Amazing how many miter boxes are almost identical the Stanley 115. This from an era when patents were guarded more zealously than a well built 16 year old daughter…..


----------



## Poa

Bandit…The bearings are held by rivets. If your friend needs a guide casting, holler at me. 25 bucks, shipped, without the bearing. 35 with the bearing.


----------



## Poa

Ol grump…

However, the No 115 does have some adjustments the others don't have. Although this style box, no matter the brand, has never impressed me.


----------



## Poa

Most of you know of my fascination with the small boxes, like the little Langdons. So, being a small box freak, I probably overpaid for a box I just bought on EBay, out of the U.K.. But really, it's one third of the cost the little Langdons are going for. I hate buying stuff out of the U.K., because it takes forever to arrive. Trouble is, though, I have never seen one of these small Ulmias offered for sale here in the states. I have seen the occassional larger one, but never the No. 348, which I understand to be the smallest one Ulmia offered. They are comparable in size to the No. 16 1/2 Langdon. I have heard these Ulmias are very good boxes. We shall see.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice Jon, BUT, they are foreign! 

Millers Falls rules.

Had a stout and now I can be cranky without self censorship

Actually, great find Jon.


----------



## Poa

Hah!! Last time I had a "stout", Kevin, I woke up in North Idaho. That woulda been ok, I guess, 'cept I discovered I'd been there for 17 years.


----------



## theoldfart

Been having a couple of stouts/porters/ scotch ales just about every week. Group of us doing the restoration work on the railroad get together on Tuesdays most weeks. I'm very relaxed.


----------



## bandit571

A Jason Buresh may be getting in touch with POA….I sent him a PM over there…


----------



## HokieKen

Well here it is in all its glory  After only 4 months or so, I have the Langdon in service  









The saw sure does make a much better cut now.

Here's how my cuts looked after I sharpened the saw:









Here's how they look after Bob S. sharpened the saw:









You're a lifesaver Bob! And thanks to Jon (Poa) for swapping me saws to begin with


----------



## KelleyCrafts

Looking good Kenny!


----------



## bandit571

"Ve haft werk…" 









If'n I can get to the shop….


----------



## theoldfart

And another save from saw doctor Bob. Looks good Ken. I keep a cover on my mitre saws after Bob sharpens them when they're not in use.


----------



## summerfi

Yay! Glad the saw is working well for you Kenny.


----------



## bandit571

Had to trim one of the boards to match the other,,,









I didn't need to trim too much off, either..


----------



## bandit571

Gentle bump, so JB can find this thread better….and get a parts he wants…


----------



## Poa

Acthung!!!

Well, yeah, it ain't made in america. But just the same, irresistible to a small mitre box freak like myself. I wish I could tell ya all about this little Ulmia No. 348. But after looking at the pics, you will know as much about it as I do.

Its pretty cool, really. Heavy for such a little thing. For scale, thats a 12" Langdon No.16 1/2 next to it. Judging from the hole that is on each end, I would say it is undoubtedly missing some sort of cut stop rod assembly. And ya better hope the factory got the angle indents right, because there is no adjustment left to right. Looking at the pics, it should become obvious how saw height is adjusted, so don't ask.

Very small teeth on the saw plate. I would say about 14 tpi, but haven't counted yet. Lazy.

I haven't tried it out yet, will probably do so tomorrow. One thing I will say, its got pretty good bang for its buck. Purchase price, and shipping from the UK, was less than a quarter of what the little Langdons are going for.

No idea about vintage. As far as I know, it could be a funky hard used 20 year old, or a 75 year old box in great shape.

First impression? I kinda dig it. Different, it is. I like different.


----------



## DonBroussard

Went to an antique place I frequent, and found a Stanley box with a 6×30 saw. The box was too dirty to see any patent or model info but I did note that the saw had an aluminum medallion and saw nuts, the table on the box itself looked to be aluminum and the saw guides looked to be about 1-1/2" in diameter and made of black plastic from the looks of it. IIRC, the logo on the box was the modern Stanley yellow logo. I suspect that this is a fairly modern box. They wanted $100 for the box and saw. I passed on it/them.


----------



## KelleyCrafts

I've seen a bunch of those Ulma saws on EBay Over the last couple years. I dig'em. Wouldn't mind stumbling on one myself.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just thinking about a timeline for dating Stanley mitre boxes. Something similar to what is out there now on dating the metal Stanley planes. 
I don't have it figured out by any means but I have seen a few examples. I have seen early boxes that have patent dates but no tag, unless they originally had paper labels. There were it seems several changes between the early boxes and the SW boxes. One of the boxes I see has a brass tag on the end but it is not a SW box. Then I think came the SW tag on the end, then on the quadrant. There were also boxes with a brass tag on the quadrant that was not a SW. I'm thinking the next change had the newer tag on the quadrant along with a little different paint scheme. Not too sure if any of this is correct however. I imagine there are more variations than I have seen.


----------



## DLK

Wasn't somebody doing this "dating"? I think it was "poopie", "Poa" or mabey "smitty" ?


----------



## Poa

I been tryin', have come up with some answers. But a complete timeline/type study? Nope. I'll tell you what would be really helpful, is if everybody that has No. 34 Stanley catalogues would check the mitre box section and see if color is mentioned. It is in two of my catalogues. If we could compile a fairly full examination of catalogues from the very early 1900s up to the 60s, we might well put together a decent timeline.


----------



## Mosquito

I will check what I've got


----------



## DLK

No. 34 Stanley catalogue 1949 edition miter box colours.

For Mitre Boxes Nos. 240, 242, 244, 246, 346, 358, 360, 2244, 2246 and 2358
Eye appealing finish-two-tone grey with red decorative lines.

For Metal cutting Miter box No. 2360: Back, base and saw guides are lacquered blue, other parts nickel plated.

For No. 150: Board is natural finish, remainder of tool black

For No. 115: Index Plate, Index Lever, and Center Point are made of steel. Saw Guides are made of grey iron. Frame is laminated hardwood, finished with clear lacquer.

For No 116: Back, Saw Guide and Index Plate are made of heavy pressed metal, ribbed for extra strength, black lacquer finish. Board is hard Maple with clear lacquer finish.

For Mitre Machine No. 100: he machine is made entirely of metal and finished in grey enamel with red trim.

For Mitre Vise No.400: Frame is made of grey iron finished in grey enamel with red trim.


----------



## RWE

POA:

I think I mentioned this previously. I am a database guy. I could help you design a database to collate the various model numbers, colors, features, eratta. Getting over a flu right now, but you have my email if there is any interest. I don't think Excel would work, but Access should do nicely.

I would think that you could create a questionnaire to be filled in and send it out via a PDF link here to get info like Combo Prof just sent. You could then key it in to get a way to report and sort.

I have thought of doing a specialized database for my planes collection, date acquired, cost, historical info etc.

Oh, I forgot, I am not a collector. My user planes I mean.


----------



## Poa

Don….super helpful. Between patents, and info out of the catalogues, we may well be able to put something together, finally.

RWE….. absolutely I am interested. Message me your email again. The only reason I am not named "old fart" is because Kevin beat me to it. But I woulda expanded on the monicker, and made it "forgetful old fart".


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here are a couple pics of my next project. This is the example of the box with the brass tag on the end of the bed but not a SW box. This one is not complete but I think I can remedy that in time. I might have to keep an eye peeled for a 26×4" period correct saw : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

little surprise…After disassembling the 246 mitre box I just got, I discovered it was painted in what I have to surmise is a dark military drab green, not black. Paint looks to be original. A dark olive drab possibly. Going to be fun to try to reproduce it for some of the pieces. Also the saw guides had that paint on them. Military issue mitre box possibly. 
On the underside of the wood table is a yellow plastic presentation tag fixed on by two screws. Dated 1967.


----------



## Poa

Wow…that would be a first. All the WWll boxes I have ran across were a light gray, with blue legs and swingarm, guide castings light gray, often the elevator stops steel instead of brass, even had one that the cut stop tree was painted light gray. So perhaps, if yours is military, the SW era ended in 1935, so you would have the 6 year period that it might not have a SW tag, or, the period after WWll, when it definitely wouldn't have a SW tag. But on closer look, your box doesn't have bearings in the guide castings, so it is earlier than SW. I think entering the SW era in 1919, the castings did not have bearings. But sometime after that, but still SW, they did have bearings. I have seen SW tagged boxes both without bearings, and with bearings. Can't look right now, at work, but the patent date for the cut stop tree would narrow it down for us.


----------



## Poa

Well…couldn't resist. Your box would be post 1916, but pre 1919. The cut stop system was patented in 1916, and the SW era started in 1919. This is assuming they started putting SW tags on them in 1919.

WWl was fought from june of 1914, to Nov. of 1918. So yes, it makes sense your box may be military issue. To my knowledge, no production retail boxes were ever manufactured in olive drab green.. I believe, not sure, that at that time period the retail boxes were black.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1203417


----------



## BlasterStumps

It's probably going to be a shot in the dark but, I am going to contact the place I got the box from and ask them to contact the seller to see if they know anything about the history of the box. I would like to follow up on that if at all possible. My first thought was that it might possibly be a WW1 military issue tool. Now that I have found the presentation tag, sure makes me think there was something special about the box for someone to have gone to the trouble of tagging it. No other markings on it any where that I have found yet. I'm thinking I may just clean it some and put it back together without de-rusting or any of that. At least until I see if there is more to learn about it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Couple more pics of the 246.

I put it back together after giving it a slight clean. 









and to show the saw guides as they were painted with a lighter green


----------



## Poa

Is there nickel plating under the paint on the guide castings?


----------



## BlasterStumps

yes there is, some is missing, some is flaking peeling and some is still there



> Is there nickel plating under the paint on the guide castings?
> 
> - Poa


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like the main body of the box was kept in a box but the uprights were not. Not sure what type of enclosure that would have been but the uprights and the cross bar show exposure to the elements that the body does not.


----------



## Poa

If there is plating under the paint, my guess would be that the box is user painted rather than factory painted. All the painted guide castings I have seen were never painted. The reasoning behind painting them was conserving the plating materials due to the war effort.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Your guess is as good as mine on the paint over plating. Looks original to me though.


----------



## Poa

Oops…meant to say "never plated". The WWll castings are raw castings, painted.


----------



## BlasterStumps

If I can't come up with any provenance on the box, I guess I'll need to decide whether to keep it original or spruce it back up. The uprights are rusted as is the top caps, trip levers and all that and the crossbar. I wish there had been more markings that would have given a clue. Oh well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Poa, I have a little egg on my face so-to-speak. I took another (closer) look at the saw guides on this 246 mitre box and now that I have, I think the light green coating is not actually paint at all but rather just corrosion. Sorry for the misleading info.


----------



## Poa

Thats not egg. Its split pea soup.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, (hope he is reading this) . Sometime back I thought you showed a picture of the moulding rests for your 246 box. Seems they had a pin sticking up on the back end. If memory serves me, your 246 is about the same age. If that was the case, would you mind reposting a picture of one please. Thanks


----------



## Poa

The earlier stock rests had pins. The later ones had bent ends. Then, later still, there was three more different designs for the stock rests, getting cheaper and cheaper as time went on.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have made a pair with the bent ends for my 358 so maybe I will try a pair with the pins. Probably cost an arm and a leg to buy some. I can do!


----------



## bandit571

Remember this Rusty & Krusty 346?









4 patent dates….









Pinned ends…









All cleaned up, now….no bearings in the guides, either…









There were 1916 patent dates…









On the "guide keepers"...


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys for the pictures of the stops. I started cutting a couple pieces of strap to width last night. not sure what I can come up with for pins but I haven't poked around yet.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got a couple stops made. Real rough but for placeholders they will do for now. Thanks again for showing me the pin type pics.


----------



## Poa

Looks great. And you're right, buying originals is expensive. I won't sell them for less than 35 bucks, before shipping. They are just too danged hard to come by.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Jon, what you working on these days? I'm playing now that I have the decks built. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

One last pic of the 246,

all dressed up for the dance : ) .


----------



## Poa

Unfortunately, my out of town jobsite is pretty much consuming my time, so have had to put the tool thing on hold for a while.


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome work on the stops Mike!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kenny, I had quite a bit of fun making them. I really like the old 246 box.


----------



## JethroBodean

Poa - So do you still have the Stanley 2360 Metal Cutting Mitre Box? And did you ever find a saw for it?










I by no means believe my saw is correct for the box, but it does work. It is all metal, non-adjustable and has "BELL SYSTEM" stamped in the spine. I bring this up only because I've notice a few of these saws on the 'Bay'.










Cheers!


----------



## Poa

Nope…never did find a saw. Would like to, though.


----------



## HokieKen

Gents… I've been tuning my Langdon box a bit here and there. After getting my saw back from Bob, it cuts like a dream but I found I still wasn't getting results as good as I would like as far as squareness.

So, after some 'vestigatin' I found that nothing is really dead square on the box :-/ I shimmed up the back end of the table pieces a bit to fix the squareness of the table to the fence. Luckily, both the table and the fence are flat and without twist. Now they are also square to one another.

Now I'm left with two issues. The cut isn't dead square to the fence or to the table… Fortunately, I am getting consistent results so I'm confident in what needs to be done. For the cut not being square to the table, I'm sure it's the same as any handsaw that pulls to one side - stone the set on that side. (Please chime in if that's not the course to take Bob!)

For the squareness to the fence however, I've hit a bit of a pickle… I can adjust the angle to where it is square and it ain't much.. 1/2 degree or less. But, I don't see how to adjust the detent catch on this saw and haven't found any information on how to do so. There is a good page on fettling a Langdon box but it only addresses this adjustment for post-WWII boxes. And mine is pre-war like this one. Anybody made this type of adjustment or know how to do it? I tore the whole mechanism down when I first got the box but don't recall seeing a cammed screw or anything for said adjustment. It's extremely frustrating to try to manually set it to square too because the correct angle is just a frog's hair off the detent so when I try to lock it in, it tries to slip into the detent. Grrr.

Thanks fellas!


----------



## bandit571

IF the Langdon is like the Stanley….the detent "button" can be adjusted. On either side of the plunger, there should be a headless bolt….loosen one, tighten the other, to shift the button left or right…









About where the arrows point to…


----------



## Poa

Well…. wish I could help. But, Kenny, you just explained, in so many words, why so many Stanley's were sold. The range of adjustments on the Stanley's, surpasses any of the other manufacturer's boxes. Its why I prefer the double rod style of guide post, such as a No. 358 over the fixed guide posts, such as on the Langdons, or the Stanley No. 2358s. But as far as coolnesss factor, such as "cool lookin' old stuff", pretty hard to beat tthe Langdons.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Bandit. Unfortunately that is only for later boxes. Mine just has an arm that springs up into notches.

Yeah, I figured that was the case POA. Make no mistake, it's getting adjusted. I just wondered if there was an easy way to do it . After refreshing my memory, the catch is tapered as is the notch. So a little file work should fix it right up I think. I'll het a little more in depth and see if there's an easier solution before I go there though.

Millers Falls rules and Stanley Drools!!

(Let the beating commence ;-p)


----------



## bandit571

Have one of each….Stanley #358 and Langdon #75 ( plus a Stanley #346…with saw..)


----------



## HokieKen

Alright, so I just came to the shop and was about to do some detectiving and noticed an awful lot of slop in the swing arm when it was locked down. So I flipped it over and whaddayaknow, I can thread the king bolt (I think that's its name) out with my fingers.

We can fix that!









I'll let that cure and make another test cut. I have a sneaking suspicion that might make the problem go away though. It looks like there is a threaded hole for a very small setscrew to prevent that bolt from backing out but mine doesn't have a screw in it. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## Poa

Ha! A loose king bolt? Now that would definitely throw it all outta wack.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mine has a set screw but even though it still would loosen right up. I did just what you show you are doing, applied some thread locker and it hasn't moved since. Good call, me thinks.


----------



## HokieKen

Good to know Mike! Hopefully this will fix me up. If not, I can always go with the red stuff. So that hole on the side is for a set screw eh? I thought it looked like it was threaded but wasn't positive. I'll have to grab one and put it in there for a little added security.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mine is on top of the pivot bolt. Comes down vertically


----------



## HokieKen

I do seem to recall that now that you mention it Mike. Not really a set screw but a stop screw IIRC. I suppose it's probably more to adjust for wear on the King bolt than to prevent it backing out? Maybe a drop of threadlocker on that guy isn't a bad idea as well… I don't remember, is it directly accessible from the top of the box?



> Ha! A loose king bolt? Now that would definitely throw it all outta wack.
> 
> - Poa


Yes it would appear so  I still haven't made a test cut since the "fix" but I'm thinking that could be the cause of the out-of-squareness to the fence and may have also loosened up the works enough to let the saw drift. I'm glad I discovered it before I made any more involved tweeks to the box or adjusted the set on the saw!


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, turns out the hole I thought was for a set screw is actually an oil port for the king bolt…


----------



## BlasterStumps

i wouldn't put any thread locker on the set screw


----------



## HokieKen

You talked me out of it ;-) I'll definitely wait and see how it does with just the thread locker on the king bolt. Your help is much appreciated!


----------



## HokieKen

Well, that seems to have done the trick  I did a quick test cut last night and it was dead square to the fence. So the king bolt needs to stay tight. Who knew? ;-P The saw did still seem to drift a little to the right but not nearly as much as before. I would assume the slop in the swing arm as a whole probably allowed some slop in the guides that didn't keep it aligned. I'll postpone any adjustments on the saw set until I have several more cuts off it so I can make sure it's consistent and not just operator error.

So, in general, does the fact that the 0° detente is aligned properly ensure that the 45° detentes will be? I will make test cuts to see if mine is. I just wonder if it generally is on most boxes or if trying to use the detentes to get good miters is just chasing my tail?


----------



## BlasterStumps

When I want to see how a saw tracks, I will do several cuts down marked lines with the wood held in a vise. Usually tells the tale about the saw real quick.


----------



## HokieKen

I saw this picture on an eBay listing and thought it was kinda funny. Figured if anyone understood, you guys would


----------



## theoldfart

A back saw dreaming big?


----------



## HokieKen

LOL Kev. I was imagining trying to cut a board using a 2" stroke ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Well, at least the saw is in the right direction. Lotta EBay pics have the saw in backwards.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is… Something.


----------



## theoldfart

Depressing, huh?


----------



## DanKrager

Hokie, would it tell you about the set to make test cuts with the miter saw not mounted in its constraints?

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

It would tell me how the saw cuts Dan. But that could possibly be different than how it cuts in the box. And how it cuts in the box is really the only think I care about. I won't be using it to cut many dovetails ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Okay all, every cut looks like this. It's undeniably consistent. This is checking the bottom to the cut.








So the saw pulls right. The plate checks square to the table but doesn't cut square. So I'm thinking I need to stone the set on the right side. Yeah?


----------



## theoldfart

Woods crooked


----------



## HokieKen

That's what I told my lathe Kev! But she insists the ends of the blank are the issue :-(


----------



## theoldfart

Well, they never did get along so good luck.

Maybe beat them with a stick till they cooperate!


----------



## theoldfart

Well, I've stepped into it now. Bought another mitre box. Surprised, huh?

it will be a repair project, two cracks. A friend is experienced in brazing cast iron so I took a chance.

It is a Dorns patent!










My wife asked what kind of tool I wanted for Christmas!


----------



## Poa

Ha!!! I'm glad you got that, Kevin. You almost didn't. I had contacted the seller, and being as how my jobsite is about 30 minutes away from him, I was seriously considering grabbing it. But my two Dorns patent Muellers have some major differences to it, so for parts, it wouldn't be helpful, and the one welder I know that is skilled enough to effect a good repair would have charged a fortune, and is booked months ahead. I know you have wanted one for a long time, and it puts a smile on my face you finally nabbed one. I'm glad I was so slow in making up my mind.


----------



## theoldfart

Didn't realize you had a couple of Muellers Jon. This adventure will be a first for me, i normally don't buy cracked boxes but these things are so damn rare….......

Pics when it arrives.


----------



## bandit571

Methinks it will be awhile, before I'm allowed to use this, again…









Used it to make a few corner blocks..









Doesn't take very long, with a Langdon 75…


----------



## Poa

Kevin….on the jobsite, out of town. But when I get home next weekend I will try to remember to post pics of the Mueller so you can compare. I suspect your Dorn is far rarer than the Mueller are. Certainly, it looks cooler. I suppose, maybe, in the long run, I might regret not grabbing it. But I can't think of anybody I would have rather have seen get it. Congrats.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Jon, I was going to ask for some pictures. This thing epitomized victorian style cast iron.


----------



## theoldfart

A well packed heavy package showed up a half hour ago.




























The pinch clamp is hiding a break in the metal that needs to be brazed. This looks like the original Dorn patent, a type 1 if you will.


----------



## Poa

Kevin…my apologies, forgot to take pics of my Muellers last weekend. If you don't see pics by Saturday night, rattle my cage. Here's one next to a Hughes compound mitre box.


----------



## theoldfart

No worries Jon. That Hughes is the last box on my hit list.


----------



## DonBroussard

Kevin-That Dorn patent box is suh-weeeet! I would not have even known what that Dorn box was, had I ever even seen one. I am learning about miter boxes that I need to seek out when I go antiquing.

Now Jon brings up a Mueller box . . .


----------



## theoldfart

Mueller = Dorn Don.

Rufus Herick Dorn was from Los Angeles. He designed, patented and manufactured the Revolving Mitre Box. I am not 100% sure about the manufacturing part.

Braunsdorf-Meuller Co was located in New Jersey. They also manufactured the revolving mitre box. Most of the examples I've seen have been made by Braunsdorf.

Dorn had at least three patents on the box's design, that I know of, as the design evolved. The one I have has the original patent number on it and Dorns name. A lot of guessing on my part, more research coming.

Disassembled the up rights and bottom carousel and cleaned them.










Don, I just realized you were referring the Hughes mitre box. The Hughes is the only box other than a Langdon Star 41 capable of compound mitres. I passed on one a few years ago and been kicking myself for it!


----------



## JethroBodean

So I was trolling the bay earlier today and happened upon a listing for 'Vintage Richardson Bros. back saw 24" blade 14 tpi'. Based on the length, obviously it was a Mitre saw. But the photos showed a couple things I found interesting. Not enough to want to buy the saw, but interesting.

The heel of the plate was cut in a sort of ogee shape. I haven't seen that before.









It took me a minute to figure out what I was seeing in these next 2 shots.


















I find myself wondering how hard and how many times do you have to slam the handle into the saw guide to do that kind of damage???? Based on the shape of the indents, anybody (poa?) want to guess the type of box that was being abused?


----------



## DLK

Saw-phrenology ?


----------



## DonBroussard

Kevin-You give me WAY too much credit for knowing what I was asking about. I didn't even know what I was asking! I do appreciate the historical information on the Dorn patent box-that was really interesting. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Poa

Jeff…. that's a pretty extreme indentation. It's not unusual for there to be a slight indent on the handle when the saw has been mated to a box for a long time. As far as what box? Anyone's guess unless you have a selection of guides you can compare to the indentation. I note that my small saws that mate to my little Langdons all have slight impressions that match the guides. This is telling, because all my boxes, and saws, we're bought separately, not mated. So it pretty much telegraphs how these small saws were marketed exclusively for the small Langdon boxes, the No. 16 1/2 and the No. 15 1/2.


----------



## Poa

Kevin….I have two of the Hughes boxes. Keep your eyes open for some tradin' stock that you think I might be interested in. I certainly don't need two. They both are near identical, so I assume that they pretty much stuck to the same design throughout their production life.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Jon.


----------



## DanKrager

Had occasion to install 3 1/2" x 2 1/2" crown molding and discovered that my Stanley miter was too small in the britches to cut it. Normally cut upside down, the 3 1/2" goes against the fence and the 2 1/2" against the table. The fence is only 2 1/2" high! Doesn't this mean I NEED another miter saw?

What versions have a tall enough fence to do that?

DanK


----------



## KentInOttawa

My Stanley 358 goes to just 3 1/2", and that's with a stock (thin) board on the bottom.


----------



## bandit571

358 with a 1/2" deck…3-5/8" to the top.

Langdon No. 75, steel deck, 3-5/8" to the top.


----------



## BobLeistner

Earlier Stanley with no tag is 3 5/8" and early Langdon Improved is 3". Both have 1/2" decks.


----------



## theoldfart

Began dissembling the Dorns base. Way more parts than I expected.
I've been calling this the Lazy Susan









On top of it is what I'been referring to as the carousel









Finally these small dsics hold the movable wings.









A little surprise was a pin in addition to two screws that held the wings.










I've found four patents given to Dorn and this style box. More on them later.


----------



## Johnny7

3 9/16" of available fence height w 1/2" deck on Stanley 360.










*Kevin*

Nice job scoring the new 'box-glad you are saving/restoring it to former glory


----------



## theoldfart

Johnny, it's been fun researching. Only problem is all the published material seems to be from Braunsdorf Meuller with the exception of the patents. I'm going to try the Los Angeles historical folks and see if they can point me in the right direction. I'm pretty sure the box I have was not made by Braunsdorf.

As far as fence height goes just attach an auxiliary two piece ence to get your height.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm kind of intrigued by Langdon options, so I'll start looking around, see what's floating downriver. Would just about any Langdon have a tall enough fence?

Here's a nice 358 that looks complete except for broken saw handle, which is trivial. The saw plate looks heavily pitted, but the wooden floor is pristine under the saw? He better pack that sucker in crumpled gold and ship expedited for the shipping price!

What is the maximum height saw this box would hold?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Turns out the box was painted originally!



















Got rattle can of a similar green along with black primer. Next up tape off machined areas.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats on the discovery! Certainly more comfortable going forward, right!?


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, I think so. The castings are rough with the exception of a few machined surfaces, getting the corrosion out has been tedious. My work clothes look like i live in a swamp! I did a test fit of a 4" saw, moves easily. Still figuring out the depth stops.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley 358 was in use today..









Had some strips of Ash needed trimmed for length…


----------



## JethroBodean

Boy am I a happy camper; I just took possession of a very interesting "Nicholls Mfg Co" Miter Box. The 1903-08-15 Patent was issued to "MOSES NICHOLLS, OF OTTUMWA, IOWA" . At first glance this box looks pretty much like many of the other turn of the century boxes. You have metal legs, a swing arm with upright posts & saw guides and a back fence.


















This one is unusual in that it does not actually come with a lower base. Instead you screw the legs to the bottom of a "removable base" (a board) then the Swing arm assembly attaches with clamping screws. 


















There is also a clamp-on 'extension back', as the fence on the swing arm is rather short lengthwise. 


















One other interesting feature is that squeezing the swing arm release level also causes both saw guides to raise up about an inch. Which lifts the saw free from the kerf in bed, making it easier to change the angle of the swing arm. 


















The quadrant looks to be brass on top of the cast iron frame and is easily read, however there are no predetermined stop points.









It turns out that Nicholls had patents for at least 3 other Miter Boxes (1895-04-02 , 1898-11-29 and 1904-12-27 ).

I don't remember seeing any Nicholls boxes mentioned here before. Does anybody else have a Nicholls box? I'm just wondering what the general LJ opinion is of them. From my searches I am finding almost nothing on the internet outside of the patents and a couple of EBay listings.


----------



## OleGrump

TOF, Congrats of the great find, even if some brazing is needed. Ain't it a thrill to receive one of those heavy, well packed parcels at your door? Been awhile for me, but I do love it when it happens. (If the wife ain't home, and it can smuggled into the shop under her radar…..)

Man, someone had some issues to tear up a saw that way. Looks like some mental midget tried to cut something with a very dull backsaw, and instead of either sharpening it, or using a different saw, elected to beat that one up trying to force it to make the cut. Too many of 'em runnin' around loose these days…….

Sad to see such damage to what was a nice old saw.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

For the old fart…I was gonna post that the mittendorf was the mitre-box of my dreams …so imagine my suprise when I saw your post. I have one of these compound angle mitre boxes as welll, and despite all the alerts I have had over the last 5-7 years, all I have ever been alerted to was pamphlets. And all the pamphlets saw is write wor a brochure.The pamphlet may hopefully show the configuration of the compound attachments and there was one on ebay a few u=years back that showed attachments on the wings, but they did not look proper.

Mine is the only one I've seen in 35+ years of serious old-tool accumulation.so with the lack of alerts, I can olnly presume these are as scarce as hen's teeth. Perhaps you have had better luck in your research, We can trade Pix if you wish, and share our knowledge. Email is Ecoyle…at..telus….dot…net. Looking forward to yoour response

Eric in Alberta


----------



## controlfreak

Since I moved my chop saw to storage I have been looking for a manual miter box for the fun of it. I spotted this at an antique market and thought I would post here to see if the experts at LJ think it is something I should look further into. It is listed at $99 so I think that is high but I really don't know.


----------



## HokieKen

That is high controlfreak. A quick search on ebay pulled up several listings you can buy that for $80 shipped. I have zero knowledge of that saw so I can't comment on the quality. I can say that in general, that type of frame saw is kinda lightweight and with a manual miter box, I wouldn't want that.


----------



## bandit571

Controlfreak: Stop by my shop, and you can have my Jorgensen mitre box…..or,

Walk into Lowes , or Menard's, as the sell the Stanley/Craftsman version for about 1/2 of that price..
..








Picked this for about $5…..last summer.


----------



## controlfreak

> That is high controlfreak. A quick search on ebay pulled up several listings you can buy that for $80 shipped. I have zero knowledge of that saw so I can t comment on the quality. I can say that in general, that type of frame saw is kinda lightweight and with a manual miter box, I wouldn t want that.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, I did a little looking around and saw several different styles of how the manufacturer's name was shown. Not many people want the "old style" miter saws so I bet I can find one locally if I keep my eyes out.


----------



## BlasterStumps

control freak, In my opinion, a Stanley 60 mitre box in good shape and tuned up with a good sharp saw would be a decent starter for sure. I mention that because you can find them pretty cheap compared to some of the other models.


----------



## JethroBodean

Y'all are killing me! Right before Christmas I spotted a Nicholls Miter Box on a local online auction site. I won the box on on the 28th and then received the package on the 2nd. With all the excitement of a second grader getting their first bike, I wrote about my find here on the forum. I then sat back to wait and see what comments , opinions or wisdoms would emerge from the 'Miter Box' gang. The response has amazed me, I've gotten…let me count…exactly zero responses. What gives people?

Have I offended? Has my Nicholls box offended? Or has everybody just out of town? I know it doesn't rate the same cool level as TOF's Dorn. But still this Nicholls is cool in it's own right. Really; I swear it is.

I hope everybody is enjoying a wonderful (and safe) 2020. Be well.


----------



## Poa

Jeff….chuckling. Well, I didn't respond because I am embarrassed I haven't got pics of my Dorn's to Kevin yet, despite promising them a few times. So been kinda laying low. Working out of town, motel living. Long job. Only home sporadically. Sicker than a dog right now, flu, holed up in the motel. Don't dare try the 2 hour drive home.

And you're right, the Nichols is cool. I know that feeling of anticipation waiting for a package to arrive, and finally being able to check out a box that is new to you.

I recently sucked another Langdon No. 15 1/2 off of ebay, and it was painted with a bunch of carnival colors. So finally, I have one that I won't feel guilty about completely restoring.


----------



## BlasterStumps

JethroBodean, I guess I browsed right on past it before. For sure, that is an interesting mitre box. What are your plans for it, keep it as is or spruce it up? It is the first Nicholls box that I have seen as far as I can remember. Congrats on the find. Wishing you a wonderful and safe 2020 as well.


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## JethroBodean

Blaster - Other than some light cleaning, I think I'm keeping it as is. The first one (the only other one) of these I saw was on EBay over a year or two ago. And it's still available, just keeps getting relisted. The seller doesn't seem to know what it is, but that doesn't stop them from putting a $200 (plus $50 shipping) starting bid on it. I was lucky, $30 got me the box, the shipping, with money left over for a pint.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jethro, mia culpa! I've read and re-read your post a dozen times and drool each time. I love it!!


----------



## theoldfart

Just because it's the only Nicolls I've ever seen doesn't mean I'm gonna comment. No sir, not me. DROOL a whole lot maybe, put a hex on ya maybe, plot to steal it, possibly …............

Jeff it is a great find and looking forward to any refurbishment effort with pics!
Didn't Radar O'Reily come from Otumwa?


----------



## DLK

> Thanks, I did a little looking around and saw several different styles of how the manufacturer s name was shown. Not many people want the "old style" miter saws so I bet I can find one locally if I keep my eyes out.
> 
> - controlfreak


For example "here is one in Mt. Holley for $50.
https://charlotte.craigslist.org/atq/d/mount-holly-miter-saw/7048787548.html


----------



## BlasterStumps

Getting closer to having a place to display a couple mitre boxes. My new workshop building was delivered Dec 19. I had requested that in place of a garage door, I wanted that one end framed for a pair of French doors. I had found a couple doors at the local Habitat Restore. I made a frame for them and took it all to the company that was to build the building. Strangely enough when the building showed up here, the door frame was installed hinges to the outside : ( . I spent about 3 hours removing the frame and reinstalling it with the hinges to the inside. I wouldn't go right to fun describing that task. Oh well, they are a good fit now and all is well. Just need to build a ramp for that end of the building now.

Once I get the walls covered with OSB or whatever, I think possibly a shelf up high on one of the walls might be a good place for three or four mitre boxes. I need to figure out which few I want to keep and sell off a few. I'm not a collector either you see. : )


----------



## theoldfart

Uh uh, me neither!


----------



## HokieKen

Congrats on the new shop Mike!

Make sure you post your sacrificial lambs here. I've been on the lookout for a smaller box for squaring up turning blanks and cutting small pieces. The Langdon box has been a pleasure to use but it ain't all that easy to hoist up from the shelf under the bench and I have to clear half the bench to use it. I'm thinking like a 150 size. Would really like one of the baby Langdons but I imagine those guys are out of my price range…

Having two definitely won't make me a collector!


----------



## summerfi

Mike, we need pictures of the new shop. Just sayin'.


----------



## Poa

Kenny…. as cool as the little Langdons are, if you are looking for function in a smaller box, I would take a Stanley No. 150 over a baby Langdon, hands down. The 150s are really pretty danged nice little boxes.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here are a few pics of the building. It's been slow going working on it. I put on gutters and turned the double doors around so far but that is about all I wanted to do with the cold weather recently. Today is the first nice day we have had in a while temp wise but it's blowing a hooley.

Ramp is next. It's only a 14' X 24' building but, there is a 12' X 15' concrete slab between the workshop and the garage so I will be able to open the double doors and have some of that area available to work on larger projects or sanding etc. And then with the availability of some of the garage space still, I should be able to spread things out a bit. Some tools will stay in the garage.

Only planning a 60 amp service to the workshop.

I set my Yotul stove in there just for grins at this point. It has to wait for several other things to get done before I can set it up.

I'm planning a workbench with base cabinets on both sides in front of the two windows together.
Anyway, here 'tis:


----------



## summerfi

That's a nice looking work space, Mike. Thanks for the pics.


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## HokieKen

Great space Mike! I envy you getting to paint on a blank canvas 

Thanks for the heads up Poa. I'll keep an eye out for a 150.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys. It will be a work in progress for some time to come I'm sure.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

OF, I 'spect you'll be making one of those things in this ad to show off to the group?


----------



## bandit571

On another site…that was a question….( Cover yer ears, Mabel!) about cutting a miter saw DOWN to make it a short tenon saw? And..wondering how hard it would be to do….

About in the same class as using a type 6 Stanley No. 71-1/2 as a coat hook…...


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, it takes a set of special shelves to get he box to do compounds. I've seen just one pic of them from an old EBay listing. I have the patent drawings if your interested. And yes I DO want to find a set.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Oh man! So you get the compound mitrebox and there's all kinds of excitement… then, well, it doesn't actually do what the name says unless you purchase special shelves? Ack! What a bait and switch! A century ago, and now!



> Smitty, it takes a set of special shelves to get he box to do compounds. I ve seen just one pic of them from an old EBay listing. I have the patent drawings if your interested. And yes I DO want to find a set.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## theoldfart

My fault for not being informed. Then again, let the hunt begin!


----------



## HokieKen

Hey guys. To more experienced eyes, does this old gal have all her parts?


----------



## DLK

I think so, but it seems expensive.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, it is expensive. I'll make an offer *MUCH* lower than the list price if I decide to try for it. But I wanted to be sure there aren't any missing bits and pieces before I did


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## BlasterStumps

not sure about the quadrant knob . Maybe original but, I have not seen that style on a Stanley. FWIW


----------



## Poa

Ken…the most commonly missing part on these is a flat spring that tensions the two guides together. By these pics, it's impossible to tell if it's there or not. If missing, it is easily fabricated. Next on the most commonly missing parts list are the cut stop pieces. Which are on that box. However, that is not the right screw that provides for locking between indents. It should be a knurled cap screw. If you are looking for a user 150, you can do far better. I would definitely pass on that one, at any price. I have a few 150s. Restored, and not. So holler if you want pics. Be sure to include your email.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks guys. PM on the way Jon


----------



## Poa

Ken…email instead… [email protected]

At the jobsite in Bev Hills, won't be home until Saturday. Perhaps this will be further incentive to get by my storage unit, and dig out my two Dorns, so I can finally get pics to Kevin.


----------



## HokieKen

PM already sent. My e-mail is in it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

A little update on the building:

12' panels of 5/8" drywall on the ceiling are a bit of a bugger for someone my age. : (

Five full sheets and two half sheets are all up now and screwed in. Still have to finish a 17" wide strip the full length of the building to finish the ceiling. Glad that is all the bigger the ceiling was.

Had to send a drywall crew away after their very poor showing on the first day. The crappy job they were doing just made me angry so I told them to pack it in. Not having good luck getting a decent contractor in my area.


----------



## HokieKen

I've got a 150 box on its way to me via eBay (thanks for the heads up POA). What size saw do you that have boxes that size think is the shortest practical? I think I have a 14" back saw but I have a feeling that may be too short? Should I keep an eye out for 18 or 20 inchers?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I coveted a 16" backsaw for my 150 for awhile, but that passed when Bob S. talked some sense into me. I have an 18" for it now, and it's the right size IMHO.


----------



## HokieKen

18" is kinda what I'm leaning towards too Smitty. I want the whole setup to be pretty compact but I want it to be functional too.


----------



## Poa

I always recommend a 4" plate, 18" to 24", for the 150s.


----------



## bandit571

Random saw pictures..









Mitersaw bench?









Stop block, for shoulder cuts on 1/2" tenons…









Not much sawdust out in front?









All went out the back…


----------



## HokieKen

Looking on Ebay this morning, it seems that longer saws are significantly cheaper than ones in the 18-20 inch range. Do we see any problems with buying a longer one and cutting it down to the length we decide we want? Don't worry, I wouldn't do it to any saw that had any collector value or one that was in particularly good shape ;-)


----------



## Poa

Ken… before you do that, let me put out feelers, and see what I have in my inventory. I'll get back to you this weekend. Rattle my cage if you don't hear from me saturday.


----------



## HokieKen

> Ken… before you do that, let me put out feelers, and see what I have in my inventory. I ll get back to you this weekend. Rattle my cage if you don t hear from me saturday.
> 
> - Poa


I appreciate it. I'm not in a rush


----------



## bandit571

I MIGHT have an 18" hanging up in the shop…..will measure it up, later..if you want?


----------



## HokieKen

Sure Bandit. Let me know what you got if you got one you want to unload


----------



## bandit571

Photos, let you be the judge…



























18-1/4" of teeth, sold by Sears as a Craftsman….handle could be re-done…

teeth are NOT impulse hardened….can be re-sharpened….


----------



## HokieKen

Hmmm. No experience with Craftsman saws Bandit. Honestly don't know if it's worth the cost of shipping or not? Let me mull it over and get the box in hand so I can get a better feel for whether or not 18" is gonna suit me or if I want something a little longer. Thanks for the info!


----------



## HokieKen

This dropped in on me yesterday.


----------



## HokieKen

That ^ box is missing this wood piece:









WTH is it? And, anyone got a good pic with dimensions so I can make one if I need to?


----------



## bandit571

Something like this?









Seems to be the same mitre box…









Maybe?









Saw is a tad too short? Cut a 1" dowel to length. Drill for the mounting bolt.


----------



## HokieKen

That's the one Bandit! Thanks for the pics. But, am I just dense? What the hell is it for?


----------



## bandit571

The saw cuts the dowel, instead of any metal parts in the way….and keeps you from cutting through the deck…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The round piece spins, it's not stationary. Assuming the toe of the saw points downward in the cut, that wood piece keeps the saw from being tilted too far and, as Bandit says, gets hit by the cutting edge rather than any metal piece of the box.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhh. Thanks fellas! That makes sense now


----------



## BlasterStumps

Ken, Glad you got a 150 box. Looks good. 
I drilled and tapped threads for a shoulder bolt to hold the wood wheel on one of the 150s I have. I seem to remember it being 1" dia wood dowel that I used.

On another note: I am still mudding the drywall in the workshop. It's been so cold that the mud doesn't dry very fast. All I have is a small electric heater and don't like running it for long periods of time. I think we are supposed to see 45 degrees tomorrow so I will open some windows. Got the electrics completed today. Yay!

Here are a couple progress pics of the inside as of today:


----------



## HokieKen

Looks awesome Mike! There are 2 chores that I choose to pay someone to do rather than doing myself: painting and mudding. I just hate em.


----------



## HokieKen

So I was tearing this box down (it's getting sandblasted tomorrow) and noticed that mine says this:









Instead of Stanley. Were these boxes marketed under other names besides Stanley? Doesn't really matter to me since it's gonna be a user. Just curious ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

I kind of thought they were sold by Wards back in the day. A clone of the 150. I have one that is just like it.


----------



## Poa

Yes, Monkey Ward sold 'em. Same box, made by Stanley.


----------



## HokieKen

Cool. I like Wards too. Were the raised letters painted on the MW versions like the Stanleys? My google-fu is failing me for finding any pictures…


----------



## Poa

Nope. Letters weren't painted.


----------



## DLK

I also picked up a 150 clone this summer, but I packed it up to be ready to take back down to the retirement house and shop. In anticipation of a house sale, being this time successful. Accepted now, but nothing id definite until April 4, when the VA loan appraisal must be completed.


----------



## HokieKen

Underway…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, if you look at the raised rim that is around the words Made in USA, it has the look of a Stanley logo on each end.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I noticed the notched corners Mike ;-) I actually prefer the "Made in USA" I think. It may get painted red even though it wouldn't have been originally.


----------



## Poa

Here is a complete and "un-messed with" Monkey Wards No. 150. I suspect a somewhat later issue. They are virtually identical to the Stanleys, because, well, they are a Stanley. Except, of course, the cast lettering.

The wooden wheel is 7/16" thick, by 7/8" in diameter. The color is a deep dark blue, almost black.


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Jon! Thank you. As a final request (for today ;-p) if it's not too much trouble, could I get a pic of the length stop next to a scale and a pic of the screw and wingnut that secure it?


----------



## Poa

Sure…I'll post the pics in the morning.


----------



## Poa

Btw… the "POWR-KRAFT" trademark for the Montgomery Ward tool line was registered in 1934. I can't find any info on when it ended. Maybe in 2001 when M.W. went under. Not sure if the POWR-KRAFT trademark was contiinued up to that time.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for all the info Jon. When it comes to these boxes, you're smarter than Google!


----------



## Poa




----------



## HokieKen

Perfect Jon. Thank you! That should give me all I need to make the missing pieces


----------



## HokieKen

I have some semi-gloss black enamel that I think will look nice on this box. But I'm kinda liking the deep blue color now. Might have to swing by the hardware store and see what they have. I shot it with a coat of primer this morning to keep the rust away. It's a pain in the ass masking all the machined faces on that thing!


----------



## Poa

I stopped using masking tape on my mitre box restorations a long time ago. I use black bearing grease, applied to the machined surfaces with a moderately stiff short bristle artist's brush. I use black because you can see it well enough to make sure you have full coverage on the surface you are coating. You have to be careful handling the pieces, of course, that you don't stick a finger in a coated surface. But after you've sprayed, and the paint is dry, you can simply wipe the machined surfaces off, and they are paint free. Any grease, or even vaseline will work.


----------



## HokieKen

I've used grease many times on planes and machines. I always mask visible areas though because I don't get nice, crisp lines when I use grease. I was actually thinking about not masking and just painting everything then putting it on my mill and going over the deck and fence with a flycutter. A quick check showed everything was true on this box though so I figured I'd leave well enough alone…

Edit to add: I've never tried a short bristled brush to apply the grease for some reason. I will next time though!

If I was of a mind to paint the raised letters, I wonder if spraying the area red first, then coating the letters with grease before spraying the black or blue would work well?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, you might want to look into a soft rubber brayer.


----------



## Poa

Mike… have you used a brayer for painting raised cast lettering? The thought never occured to me.


----------



## bandit571

Perhaps just spray it all one colour…..once that is dry, sand away the paint from the raised areas on the logo…?


----------



## HokieKen

Brayer is brilliant Mike! Never used one but I'm pretty sure I have one somewhere. If not, I'll pick one up and take a stab at it 

Thought about that Bandit but I like the look of the red letters on the black parts I think.


----------



## bandit571

Then do like I did..

Scratch HX 2in1 by Dupli-Color…NC FM 306 Cardinal Red…has a tiny brush inside.


----------



## HokieKen

A small brush was my original plan Bandit. That just never comes out clean enough to suit me. I just don't have the touch or the patience…


----------



## realcowtown_eric

notes on mitre boxes…...

I used them frequently, and have many.

Why would I use them….working in finished and furnished apartments installing moldings….just spread a tarp and the sawdust just falls on the tarp. When done, fold up the tarp and be on your way….or spend hours vacuuming the dust a chop saw spreads like plague!, or if you cannot violate condo rules by making noise, saves multiple trips to the truck where you have a cordless cop saw! (imagine no elevator threading 10 0r 12' pieces down stairwells!)

The 150 is neat and cute, but alas it does not even have the height to miter 356 base

For the larger mitre boxes, go back to the parts diagram at the head of this thread and look at part #8-it's the little thingy that clamps on the top of the saw and triggers the release. Often missing, but it makes life so much easier.

And never forget, with a little practice, you can cut a square cut and even a mitre fairly closely simply;y by watching the refection in your shiny saw blade!- and don't fprget your coping saw…we all cope our corners on moulding don't we…..don't we?

Eric


----------



## DLK

I actually picked up a miter box and saw from a thrift shop fr $25. The miter box is a bit incomplete but on the saw was part #8 . And of course we cope our corners.


----------



## HokieKen

What would you do besides cope your trim?

Anybody know anything about EC Atkins Marsh Plant saws? Thinking about buying this one to go with the 150 box.


----------



## bandit571

Those that can't cope, just can't cope…

Seem to remember the HVAC installers on the jobsites…using something like the "Part #8" as a clamp to hold their sheet metal parts together, long enough to add the screws to the flanges….sometimes, they'd even use them and a roll of wire, to hang the ducting, until they could strap the run in place….I may have to go and ask around…..










Might have a use for a couple…


----------



## Poa

Hmmm….talking about Stanley trip clamps….

... just call this post a teaser.

You guys that are familiar with the Stanley boxes are probably aware of the scarcity of the trip clamps that attach to the spine of the mitre box saw. These pieces, that trip the saw hanger on the top of the guide post assembly, are pretty hard to come by, and for such a little component, they can demand some pretty stupid prices.

So if I see a mitre box saw on eBay, that has one of these clamps clinging to the spine, it definitely ups the amount I am willing to pay for the saw.

So last week I saw this Atkins saw on eBay, immediately after it was listed, weighed the costs, and pulled the trigger. It was easy to see I could realize a return on my money, and even a small profit if I decided to flip it.

Upon recieving the saw, due to poor packaging, the handle was in four pieces. Normally I would be bummed, but the nature of the breaks, and the color of the exposed broken surfaces, implied that the breaks were on existing checks. Surely any moderate use would have busted the saw handle at these checks, so the clean breaks were actually a bit of a bonus. It was a fairly quick and easy glue up, able to be done in just two clampings. And judging by the initial rough flush sanding, it will be a pretty sound and well blended repair.

Yeah yeah, I know…get to the point, Jon.

Well, first off, upon recieving it, I was delighted to find it is a 4" x 22" Atkins, with a barely readable partial Stanley etch. The 22" saws were supplied with the No. 242 boxes, which are fairly uncommon. Stanley stopped making the No. 242s in 1950. And the saws are just as uncommon. And, they are getting in the small size range that makes them very handy to use with the Stanley No. 150 boxes. I prefer a 20" or a 18" to mate with the 150s, but 22" is definitely workable. So getting my hands on a 22 incher made my investment even more attractive.

Also, the trip clamp, pictured here on the spine, had a broken thumb screw, the thumb portion busted off flush with the outer surface of the clamp. The clamp was snug to the spine, but I was able to remove it with light hammer taps towards the heel of the spine. After it was free, it was a simple matter to remove the broken threaded portion of the thumb screw by turning the exposed broken threaded portion, inside the U portion of the clamp, with needle nose pliers.

Yeah, I know, blah blah blah. But hey, I am almost done. Patience, please.

Here's where the brass guide post stops come in. Pictured are three different incarnations of these stops, that were utilized on different vintage boxes. But the one thing they all have in common is thread size. And fortunately, these trip clamps share that thread size. And these stop screws are far easier to come by than the original trip clamp thumb screws. There is a Catch 22 to this information, though. Not all of the trip clamp screws on these brass stops are threaded full length. Not sure what vintage boxes had which style screws, so it's kind of a by guess and by golly.

So see, you are smarter now! You now know some tool trivia you probably will not ever use. Hey, don't say I never gave ya nuthin'.

More on this saw later, when I can find the time. And after its back together. It's very talkative about its history. A regular chatterbox.

And can we get a cheer for the guy that invented Jorgensen clamps? He was a frickin' genius.


----------



## HokieKen

Jon, if one were to machine some clamps like those, would there be a market for them or do you think most people want the originals?

Still gotta peel the rest of the masking and do some touch up but, so far, so good.


----------



## DLK

I think there may be a market for them.


----------



## Poa

Well, as someone that deals in parts, I gotta admit that knock offs are not my favorite competition. But for users, I would bet you might sell a few. The other side of the coin? They are such a simple piece, designed to do such a simple chore, that most users can rig something up fairly quickly, if they really want to utilize a trip clamp. My experience, in selling a few of them, is that very few buy them just as a user item. Most buyers seem to want to return their boxes to complete, and original, condition.

The 150 is looking good. Kinda fun spiffyin' them up, ain't it?


----------



## HokieKen

Don't worry Jon. After taking a closer look at some of those clamps, there's no way it would be worth my time to make them ;-) And yeah, I always have a good time making old tools look good


----------



## BlasterStumps

As you may remember seeing, I made a couple out of aluminum bar stock. They work just like the original Stanley I have if not a little better on one of the saws. The height of the top edge of the trip clamp needs to be just right for it to really work smoothly. The Stanley wouldn't work very well on that one saw.

Jon, no I haven't used the brayer for lettering but I seem to remember seeing someone online do that. You could wrap just about any absorbent paper or such around the roller if the roller itself would not work. Just thought I would mention it to Kenny in the hopes that he could make it work.


----------



## HokieKen

If the brayer is what I think it is, it is used to roll in ink and then transfer the ink to the raised letters on typeset. Seems to me like it should be perfect for transferring paint to raised letters on a casting.

Mike's idea also made me think… I have a strop with a fairly thick piece of leather on it. Wonder if I could use something like that and paint the leather then transfer it. I'll have to (a) see if I can find the brayer I think I have and (b) see if I have another piece of leather and then play around a bit and see what works well. Or maybe© I'll just leave it alone. The enamel I sprayed on yesterday looks pretty damn nice without highlighting the letters


----------



## NickyMac

Made an account specifically to get in on this chat!

I picked up a MF 1124 last week that was still in its original shipping cardboard. Looks to have been used only a few times and the box was post marked 1973. Photos tonight when I'm not at work…

Kenny, I've had good success painting raised surfaces like letters and such using foam rubber saturated in paint. I got the idea from the ink pads used for rubber stamps. I glued a bit of the rubber to a block with spray adhesive, and then "blot" the paint onto the raised parts. Depending on the paint you use, the blotter is usually a one time use tool, but easy to make and I've had good results.


----------



## Poa

Hey Nicky, welcome to the group.


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## NickyMac

Here's my great condition 1124 with somewhat soulless Warranted Superior saw. The tooth line measures 22" so I guess that makes it a 24×4 saw? or is it only Disston that fudges their numbers?

Anyway, the saw is a bit dull from the start, but the box cut a true 90 so that's great!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Welcome, Nicky.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nothing wrong with that set up NickyMac that I can see. Congrats on a cool find. I don't have that model but have several MF boxes. One has a Craftsman label. All seem pretty good quality.


----------



## DLK

The MF 1124 did come with a 24×4 "somewhat soulless Warranted Superior" saw.










It will be great !


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## HokieKen

Hi Nicky and welcome! I have a MF/Langdon 74C box that I love. Nice find snagging one that was still in the shipping box! IIRC, that box came with the cool length stops that mount on the end and have a couple of different ways of articulation. Did your box come with those or did they go missing previously? Nothing wrong with that Warranted Superior saw either IMO. By that point, saw materials and techniques were pretty well standardized.

Nevermind, I just read the blurb Don posted ^ and it looks like that box didn't come with length stops at all…

Thanks for the tip on foam rubber. That should be better than leather. And cheaper!


----------



## Poa

Nicky…

A "back saw" has a heel that drops straight down off the back of the plate. So, the toothline is actual plate length. But a "mitre box saw" has the clipped heel, which typically ends the toothline about 2" short of the full plate length. So all saw makers used the same standard of measurement on their mitre box saws.


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## DLK

Nice explanation Jon. (And happy belated birthday.)


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## NickyMac

> ... all saw makers used the same standard of measurement on their mitre box saws…
> 
> - Poa


24" is generous for this saw even considering the clipped heel. Then again we're all guilty of fudging numbers sometimes, whether its a fish or ….otherwise


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A late model No. 60 too cheap to pass up ($2):










Weird field mod:









Were springs supposed to be on both posts? Only one, on the front. No saw, but that's no problem.

Cuts fine.


----------



## DanKrager

*SC* I bought one like that new somewhere about 1975 and still have it. Did the jobs I asked it to. There was only one spring on the saw guide I think (can't remember front or rear), and that was to hold the saw out of the plate. If one adjusts the saw while it is stuck in the kerf of the plate it will twist the blade. And by playing with the screws at the top of the guide one can adjust the tolerance the blade has to pass through.

It's main shortcoming is that it is size challenged when doing doing cove molding of anything over 2 1/2". I do wish it had the adjusting holding bars in the bed found on some earlier models.

There was nothing special about the saw that came with it. It's got a Warranted Superior medallion, nothing more. Saw handle is nothing to write home about either. The little widgets at the top of the posts that hold the saw up can be easily released without touching them by first levering the saw down at the handle to lift the far end and release that catch then lift the handle while holding the weight of the saw with your wrist to release the back one. Once you get used to it, it's really pretty handy.

DanK


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## NickyMac

Welp. I guess they come in waves? 
I just picked up these two yesterday. A Stanley 346 and what appears to be an All Steel? Both came with saws, and possibly the originals (Disstons). Man the 30" is a bear!! Really looking forward to cleaning these up!





































The brazing on the back post of the 346 looks like how I JB-Weld! I'll file down the messy bits on the outside and clean it up, but at least everything appears sturdy and functional. Has one of the bars, but is missing the length stop.

Cheers


----------



## HokieKen

Nice haul Nicky!


----------



## JethroBodean

On your Goodell All-Steel, it has the flat bottomed tool guides. The later 'V' bottom was patented in 1923, well before they were acquired by Millers Falls. The All Steel itself was originally patented in 1904. With a very broad stroke your All-Steel would have been manufactured sometime between those dates.

Nice find BTW.


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## NickyMac

> On your Goodell All-Steel, it has the flat bottomed tool guides. The later V bottom was patented in 1923, well before they were acquired by Millers Falls. The All Steel itself was originally patented in 1904. With a very broad stroke your All-Steel would have been manufactured sometime between those dates.
> 
> Nice find BTW.
> 
> - JethroBodean


Ah! I was curious about the age, so thanks! It's unfortunately missing the tools for the guides, but I still hope to get it in working order. We'll see how things go.

My wife had some raised eyebrows when I brought these in, but no complaints and humored me when I showed them to her… SAFE


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## Poa

Smitty. Only one spring on the guide post. Front, on the left rod.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thx, box checks out then! Appreciate all the input!


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## NickyMac

For those that have a few miter boxes: 
What would you say is your favorite? Has your opinion changed? If you had to pick ONE, which would it be and why?


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## BlasterStumps

It's a little hard to pull just one out of the heap to call my favorite but, if I had to choose a full size MB, I would say the Stanley 246 would be hard to beat. It has rollers in the saw guides, is easy to raise and lower the saw, and is an all complete MB since I fashioned a couple moulding stops for it. There are several reasons why I have a hard time choosing a favorite. One being that I haven't gotten to use any of the MBs that I have very much. Also like with other tools, there are several different sizes and types which may work better on some tasks. I even have a small modern Stanley that I use a 14" saw in that I really like because of its light weight and small size. I have a Stanley 346 which has a monster saw. I haven't used it much but can only imagine that the extra cutting depth of that saw would be nice in some cases. I could say that the favorite would be whichever one best fits the need.


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## HokieKen

I'd have to go with my Langdon 74C box. Why? It's the only one I have other than the Stanley 150 that's undergoing overhaul at the moment ;-)

I do really like the Langdon box though, all kidding aside. There are some nice features to the larger Stanley boxes that I think would be useful in actual use. But the Langdon box matches all my planes and eggbeater drills so it's king of the hill in my shop


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## Poa

For cool factor, my small Langdons, the No. 16 1/2s and 15 1/2s. For crown, my Stanley No. 360. For casing, chair rail, etc. my no. 346. For rarity, my bronze legged Stanley 50 1/2. For oddest, most stupid and useless, my Dorns. For oddest, but just kinda maybe useful, just barely, my Hughes compound boxes. For best designed simplicity and function, the Stanley 150s, by far. Was this a trick question?

Uuuhmmm…what are we taking about?


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## DLK

I really like the 74C, but having a 150 is nice because you can use any saw with it. (I like the 74c so much I got 2. The latter box because I found myself with out my box and need to repair some molding, and found a $10 one at a garage.) I'm looking for a folding E.C. Sterns to put in the job site box. (But having no jobs to go to I'm not desperate, LOL.)


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## theoldfart

Working boxes
Small 15 1/2 Langdon
Medium 5" GP AllSteel 
Large Langdon 16

Collector boxes

Trauts 1'st gen Stanley
Drone

Maybe someday a Hughes


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## HokieKen

Anybody familiar with the Millers Falls 110 box? It's a whole new animal to me and I browse Millers Falls on the 'bay pretty regularly. It looks like their version of the 150 box but appears to be a stamped steel instead of cast iron and I don't see anyway to adjust for the width of the saw plate. I looks to be an inferior take on the design of the 150 but I'm wondering if it pre-dates the 150 design?


----------



## JethroBodean

First off, I know nothing about the 110, except that it was to compete directly against the 150. By looking at the few Millers Falls catalogs that I have, the 110 is not in the 1925 catalog, but is in the 1938 catalog. It is gone from the 1949 catalog. I do find patent #1,591,575 from July 6 , 1926, that sure look like the 110.

Although it had a slightly different look, what became the Stanley 150 was patented by L. W. JACOBS on Nov. 5, 1889; #14,544.


----------



## Poa

This is the Jacobs box that Stanley patterned the No.150s after. Came in two sizes. Both sizes larger than the 150s.


----------



## NickyMac

After playing with the 346 and all steel, I'm completely torn. I love the bearings, bottom spring and moulding stops on the 346, but I like the easy depth stop adjustment, saw release, and collapsing guides on the All Steel.

I'll get them both cleaned and tuned and see which I end up keeping. 
Though I also see a GP1258 on FB Market for $25 with a saw… Any of you guys near Portland, OR?



> ...Both sizes larger than the 150s.
> 
> - Poa


What's the size difference between the smaller and the 150?

One thing is for sure, I'd like a super accurate teeny tiny one for small parts.


----------



## Poa

Nicky…when I get back home Sunday I'll shoot a pic of the small jacobs next to a 150.


----------



## theoldfart

Nicky, your options are Langdon 15 1/2, 16 1/2 or a Goodell Pratt 1625. None of them are "budget" priced!

One option is a modelers aluminum mitre box that comes from either Zona or Exacto.


----------



## JethroBodean

Nicky - As a matter of fact I do live out side Portland and actually drive into Portland most everyday for work. I've been eyeballing that box myself, but honestly I may have finally decided I have enough. Currently my non-collection of Stanley's, GP's and MF's has now gone north of 30. And unlike Jon, I'm not smart enough to try selling them. I tell my wife that I have 3-4 users and the rest are for parts (yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking to it)


----------



## Poa

The little ones…


----------



## NickyMac

Jethro… 30 boxes??? Do you keep them under your bed and in every closet? Thats quite the collection!

Poa those little Langdons are sweet!


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, north of thirty!!!! You got it bad and that aint good.


----------



## HokieKen

This showed up from Bandit Clause earlier this week. Now if I can fond a little time to put the 150 box back together, I'll be in business! Thanks Bandit


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit Clause can be very generous. Good luck with the reassembly.


----------



## bandit571

Figured out which hardware to use with it..yet?


----------



## HokieKen

Actually I didn't even notice there was extra hardware until I laid it out for that picture… I did notice there was a set of brass and a set of steel but didn't look to see which one was proper for that saw. I'm guessing the steel? In either case, none will go to waste! Thanks )


----------



## Poa

Here's a first for me. On one of my FB saw groups I belong to, a guy just posted about this box. It is the first, and only, No. 150 I've seen with a brass tag.

So there were a number of different incarnations of the 150. I have seen them with "No. 150" cast into the front top of the quadrant, "Stanley No. 150" cast into the front of the quide yoke., "Stanley" cast into the front of the yoke. "Stanley Made in USA" cast into front of the yoke, and now this one with a brass tag.

Of course, I tried to talk him out of it, but he ain't hearing of it. So keep your eyes open, guys, I'm on the hunt.


----------



## theoldfart

And it's a Sweet Heart.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I was thinking I showed this 150 a while back:


----------



## Poa

Maybe you did show it before. Don't recall. I found a picture of another one this morning. Also a Sweetheart. Walter's book claims the 150 was produced from 1923 to 1969. Although the "Sweetheart era" lasted from 1919 to 1935, the later SW logo, 1922 to 1935, has the top of the heart touching the rectangle, and not encroaching on it, (1919 to 1922), like these two brass tags. So maybe its safe to assume the ones with the brass tags are the earliest of the 150s.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I was thinking I showed this 150 a while back:
> 
> - BlasterStumps


You did. I drooled back then, too.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a sexy box Mike! That saw looks about the size of the one Bandit sent me. I really hope that saw works well for me because I LOVE the compactness of that whole setup.


----------



## Poa

I can't remember if I posted about this 150, or not. One of my favorites.

Found in a junk store in Palmdale, California. One of these days I will probably clean and wax it. But that will be the extent of my messing with it, except replacing the missing guide spring. Amazing how many 150 boxes are missing this spring, which renders them pretty useless. It suprises me this one is missing the spring, because of the obvious care the owner took to make his box more useful. I really don't believe these springs break. But that would mean they all go missing when the guide assemblies are taken apart. Or, they somehow fall out, which seems unlikely, but may be the best answer.

Anyway, I really like finding old tools that have been skillfully "personalized". I find it very hard to mess with them, preferring to just leave these "improvements" unmolested.

Edit…

BTW, look at the saw kerfs in the table. Note how sloppy they are? Exactly the kind of problem you run into trying to use a 150 with a missing spring.


----------



## JethroBodean

Wow, it appears that I tried to miss out on 150 day! So let's talk about the 150!

I'm not really an original thinker and most of what I'm about to say is not original from me. A couple of years back I was sent a link to an article, by TOF (thanks Kevin) out of the June 2007 issue of 'the Chronicle' titled 'Stanley's open-Front Miter Box, No 150' written by Walter W Jacob. The information below is my regurgitation and summarization of the important parts (in my personal opinion) of that article pertaining to the 150. Anybody still awake??

The Stanley 150 was produced from 1923 until 1969. The were four versions or types throughout those years.

Type 1 - 1923-????
The arch had 'No. 150' embossed on one side and 'MADE IN USA' on the other.
The Frame board was painted Orange

Type 2 - ????-1949
The arch was changed to have 'Stanley' with orange paint on front.
'No 150' was cast into the frame on the center of the front of the quadrant.

Type 3 - 1950-1962
The arch now showed 'Stanley' along with 'No 150' on the front of the arch.
The quadrant now had numbers for 90, 22.5, 30 and 45 degrees.

Type 4 - 1963-1969
The frame now sported a Blue Japanning with yellow trim.
The frame board was now natural rather than painted orange.

The 150 was never sold, from Stanley, with a saw, but apparently they are often found with a Disston Keystone 3×12 inch.

I did not see a date mentioned indicating the end of the Type 1 and the beginning the Type 2. However based on the above information, I would suggest that both Blaster's box and the box that POA seems to be lusting after, are of the Type 2 variety based on both of them having just 'Stanley' on the arch. And one of the pictures of Poa's love box shows 'No 150' on the quadrant.

I am lucky enough to have acquired five 150s and 2 of the unmarked on the front of the arch Monkey Wards boxes. All five of the 150s have 'Stanley No 150' on the arch and have black Japanning, indicating that they are all Type 3, but interestingly only 3 of them have the degrees on the quadrant, the other two have no marking on the quadrant. For the MW boxes, one has degrees and one does not.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I'm awake Jeff. Glad the article helped. I still have not picked up one of these. Someday.


----------



## Poa

Well…I am awake now. And that is great info, Jeff. Anyone have a link to the article typing 150s?


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, sent you the article by email.


----------



## HokieKen

Jon, since you already have my e-mail address, would you mind forwarding the article on to me as well?

Thanks for the history Jethro! My "150" is actually a MW version. It was all black and has the angle measurements on it. It came deck-less and has no identifying marks other than *MADE IN USA* on the arch. Funny that Stanley made new patterns, or used inserts in their patterns, to remove their name from the boxes sold by MW but still left the very recognizable notched rectangle…









Mine was all black but I'm pretty sure it was enameled rather than japanned. I say that only because it didn't take me as long to sandblast the finish off this box as it usually takes me to blast japanning off of old Stanley planes. Regardless of the original finish though, it's enameled now ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Forgot to add…

3×12 saw seems awfully small to me! I didn't even bother sticking one of my 14" backsaws into the box and I'm a little iffy on whether the 18-incher Bandit sent me will be long enough to suit me. If money were no object, I'd spring for the Bad Axe saw he designed specifically for the 150 box. Alas, money is an object though…

What kind of saw is that on your box Mike? Looks way too shiny to be a vintage one ;-)


----------



## Poa

Thanks to both Kevin and Jeff, who responded with the link.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Ken, (I think) it's a Disston that I cleaned up rather poorly and replaced the handle on. I think it is a 16" and it works fine for me. I can actually use a 14" and it seems fine also. You can use a handsaw in a 150 I believe so if you need extra length, there ya's go.


----------



## Poa

The article about the 150s states that the early Jacobs boxes were designed so that the guide assembly could be flipped upside down so it could double as a saw vise. This necessitated machining on both sides of the assembly. It was an Interesting tidbit that I didn't know about. I have both sizes of the Jacobs boxes, and neither have said machining, so they both must be the second generation Jacobs.


----------



## HokieKen

Interesting read on the 150 boxes. Thanks for the article Jon via Jethro and/or Kev ;-) I think the integrated saw vise would have been a selling feature for field use. Or maybe carpenters would just switch saws when one got dull since any saw could be used with the box.


----------



## Poa

So here's another ditty. Right before we got into this group rap about the 150s, I had bought another one off ebay because of its condition. It is complete, with only one light saw kerf on the left hand 45, and very little kerf on the right hand 45. It looks as though it was used primarily for cutting 90s. The wooden saw stop wheel in back is pristine. But heres the deal. It has an orange wood table, and orange "Stanley No.150" on the front of of the yoke, "Made in USA" on the back of the yoke. But NOTHING on the quadrant. No no. 150, and no numbers. So, maybe there are 5 types, rather than the 4 in the Jacobs article.

The box will arrive today, but I won't be home to examine it and take pics until next week end.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> So, maybe there are 5 types, rather than the 4 in the Jacobs article.
> 
> - Poa


Always a possibility it suffers from the 'Stanley didn't recognize types' reality that sometimes makes typing bench planes a challenge. Pull whatever parts were in the bin and make a saw for sale. A box as simple as the No. 150, no less. Very interesting Jon.


----------



## HokieKen

Could also suffer from 'users didn't care about types' reality ;-p Johnny dropped his box and broke the yoke so when he went to the hardware store and 'pops' found an old yoke in the back and sold it to him.


----------



## Poa

Ken…yeah, but there should be SOMETHING on the quadrant, even if it is a Frankenbox. Even the Monkey Wards clones have numbers on the quadrants.


----------



## HokieKen

Type 1 wouldn't have had anything on the quadrant, right? Nevermind… now that I look at the article again, I see that type one had the model # cast into the frame.

Now I'm definitely curious. Smitty's hypothesis wouldn't explain it either since all types had something cast into the frame.


----------



## JethroBodean

If you read to the end of my rantings, in the last paragraph I mention that 2 of my Type 3 and 1 of my MW boxes have no markings on the quadrant. I knew I heard snoring before you had finished reading!



> I am lucky enough to have acquired five 150s and 2 of the unmarked on the front of the arch Monkey Wards boxes. All five of the 150s have Stanley No 150 on the arch and have black Japanning, indicating that they are all Type 3, but interestingly only 3 of them have the degrees on the quadrant, the other two have no marking on the quadrant. For the MW boxes, one has degrees and one does not.
> 
> - JethroBodean


----------



## theoldfart

That's not snoring , it's heavy breathing!


----------



## Poa

Geez, Jeff, cut me some slack. It's bad enough you 'spect me to remember all this stuff, now you seem to have some sort of expectation that I have reading comprehension and retention. And did you just admit that there are 5 types, and not 4? Subliminally?


----------



## HokieKen

Intersting Jethro. Between you and Jon, it does sound like something is missing in the type study. According to that article, all types had something (model/degrees) cast into the frame quadrant.


----------



## BlasterStumps

My Stanley 150 has raised numbers for the degrees on the quadrant but no other markings except what is on the brass nameplate.


----------



## JethroBodean

Ken - I agree that the article seems to suggest there was always something on the front of the frame. However I would (guess, wager, envision, suspect, imagine, speculate, presume…you pick) that when they first moved the 150 from the frame to the arch, that the frame was left blank for a short while. For Jon's piece of mind, let's call this Type 3; Ver 1.0. Then somebody at Stanley who was smarter than I said "That looks awfully plain and boring on the frame now; why don't we add degrees?"; thus inventing Type 3, Ver 2.0.
At least that's the story I'll be telling the grandkids, once I get some of those.
Jeff


----------



## JethroBodean

Blaster - But it only has Stanley on the front of the arch, right?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

triplicate post, double argh…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

duplicate post, argh…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> If you read to the end of my rantings, in the last paragraph I mention that 2 of my Type 3 and 1 of my MW boxes have no markings on the quadrant. I knew I heard snoring before you had finished reading!
> 
> - JethroBodean


I read and remembered - that was part of my musings… ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Moved the miter saw station into the workshop this morning. Dug out the Wards Master mitre box, now I can cut some moulding for base and windows/doors. Yay!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yes



> Blaster - But it only has Stanley on the front of the arch, right?
> 
> - JethroBodean


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## Poa

All right. The cat is outta the bag. Jeff has no grand kids? No wonder he seems to have clarity of thought. I consider it intellectual cheating. There is no way I am trusting anyone that didn't destroy 38% of their brain cells during the 60s.


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## bandit571

Anyone that claims to even remember the 60s…..is a liar…....must have been all that 3.2% Stroh's beer…..


----------



## caaColorado

Gorgeous tools!


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## BlasterStumps

I'm moving in! Moved most of my big stuff into the new workshop yesterday and more today. Still need to get crackin' making some cabinets and still have the trim to put up for windows/doors. Just had to take advantage of such nice weather. No wind and in the 50's. Yay!


----------



## JethroBodean

Can't wait to see the 'all filled up' shots. Congrats.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Probably be a while until I can get cabinets made so that I can finish moving small stuff. This is all I have so far:





















> Can t wait to see the all filled up shots. Congrats.
> 
> - JethroBodean


----------



## HokieKen

Looks awesome Mike!


----------



## Mosquito

That looks very nice indeed!


----------



## HokieKen

A little progress finally! 









Still lots to do but at least I don't have to worry about loosing parts…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks good Kenny. I think you will enjoy that MB.

I was starting to wonder where everybody went. Haven't been much activity on the threads lately. Good to see you working on that MB.

I'm still trying to get things organized in the workshop.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Mike.

It's funny, I spent a lot of time pondering whether or not I should try to paint the raised letters on the arch. But then when I put the thing back together last night, I realized the lettering is on the BACK! Why in the world did they put it on the back? I definitely ain't painting raised letters I'm not going to see 

Now I need to make a deck for it and mount it to a base. Then I'll put the handle on the saw Bandit sent me and take it for a test run. Then all it'll need is for me to make a wooden wheel for the back of the swing arm and a length stop.

Looking forward to some more in-progress shots of the shop. I saw somewhere (thread or blog?) that you were working on some flip-top carts. I made one and it's a huge space saver. The key is figuring out what tools you can put on there to minimize having to flip it. Of course if you don't pile it up with crap like I do, flipping it's not really a big deal…


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## JethroBodean

Ken
I assume you mean the "Made in USA" is on the back of the arch. If the front is black on yours than that was originally sold by Montgomery Wards as one of their a Powr-Kraft tools. Stanley simply took their name off the front of the arch, leaving the markings on the back. Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there is no difference between the boxes. Well I do have one Powr-Kraft that does have "Powr-Kraft" painted on the bed.


----------



## HokieKen

Yes Jeff, this is a MW box. I guess I just didn't pay attention until after I took it all apart but I just assumed the "Made in USA" was on the front of the arch. It makes sense that they left it on the back and just removed Stanley from the front though now that you point it out. I guess I didn't realize the Stanley version had the "Made in USA" in the notched rectangle on the back.


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## BlasterStumps

Kenny, I just about have the flip top cart done. Just need to finish mounting the jointer on the side of it. Then if the Lord's willing and the creeks don't rise, I am going to get going on the shop cabinets. And then one other little project is to build a small cabinet that will set under the drill press. Lots to do if I can buy the materials I need.


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## BlasterStumps

Kenny, I guess it's okay to provide an update on the workshop in this thread. Anyway, here are a couple pictures of the shop now as it was planned and is now. Now that I have the flip top cart done for the most part, I think I will start in on the cabinets shown in the drawing. Not exactly sure the number of drawers, and doors yet but once I set down with pencil and paper, I will shake it out. The little bench on that wall was only to be there until I start in on the cabinets. Anyway, it has been quite a winter project for sure but hopefully I can get the rest done before the outside work takes over my time. I wont hook up the stove pipe for a while. No hurry on that now, it's 60 something today.


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## HokieKen

That's great Mike. That's going to be a great space to work in


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## HokieKen

A little more progress…









Slowly but surely!


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## bandit571

Looks like that old saw will fit?


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## HokieKen

I believe it'll be just about right Bandit  I'll have to use it for a while and see but it seems to be a mighty fine fit. Thanks again!


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## Poa

Where's Waldo?

Now don't get me wrong. I ain't bitching. It's not everyday you get home from the jobsite and get to unpack a little Goodell Pratt No. 1625. It's actually a rarer experience than popping the cardboard on a box containing one of the wee Langdons. Plus, just a tad of a bonus more, it's a later box than the 1625 I already had in my collection. Odd that these sell nowadays for about a third of what the little Langdons sell for. You see far more of the Langdon No.16 1/2s and 15 1/2s than you do of these little GPs.

Plus, it's got a Frankensaw, sharpened by pure ego, from whom I have always wondered if the Ebay bluster is founded in reality. I finally get to find out. Open handled, Peace hardware, and a plate whose maddenly faint etch hints at maybe "indianapolis"(?), with some sort of circular logo above that. This guy really spouts of on his Ebay listings about how great his sharpening technique and tooth geometry is God's gift to the handsaw world. We shall see.

But anyway. Have a gander at the pics. Look at the two boxes, in the one shot. See if you can discern the very odd, and therefore surprising, incorrect assembly of the box I just procured. Makes you wonder, with the Frankensaw, and the bass ackwards assembly, (which is actually a pretty big deal if you wanna actually use this thing), what this poor old GP had to go through to reach the year 2020. And no, I am not referring to the fresh spring and screw on the swing arm. I actually like the tension this modern spring applies more than that of the stock spring on the other box.


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## theoldfart

Elevator posts are reversed front to back.


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## Poa

Bingo, Kevin. Switched them back to correct this morning. Quick and easy. One wonders why they were switched in the first place. Judging by the paint on the model # tag, the box has been spritzed or brushed with black paint. Perhaps someone dismantled it for that reason. Although the red paint seems to be original. Haven't decided the fate of this box yet. Full restoration, or leave as is?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Already been 'spritzed,' that'd lead me to think full rehab. But leaving original red (would that make sense?).


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## Poa

Smitty, I tend to agree, particularly since the spring and screw are replaced on the indent lever. But I sure would like to find one in good shape, unmolested, for the collector side of me. I really think these small boxes are of better value when they haven't beeen messed with.


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## theoldfart

Jon, I agree with them being a better buy considering market prices. I think that saw is questionable. Every now and then I hit the front post if I get too aggressive on big stock. I can see that backsaw handle snapping in the event that happens. You can see that kind of wear on some of the older Disstons and Simonds mitre saws.


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## Poa

Kevin…it is the rare old mitre box saw that doesn't have an imprint on the handle where it has collided numerous times with the head of the guide. All my 16" x 2-1/2" and 2" saws have them. I have some mitre box saws that I bought separately, and can tell you what model and make box they were used with because of the shape of the indent. I agree with you about the unsuitability of an open handled saw for use with a mitre box. However, a couple exploratory cuts with this saw reveal that it cuts quite well, leaving a very smooth finish to the cut. The plate has been redrilled to fit this handle. I may go ahead and make a closed handle for this plate, and it will make quite a nice user saw.


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## bandit571

On a happier note ( than me getting put into a splint from a fall, and messing up my right hand)









Stanley No. 358 was hard at work….


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## Just_Iain

I'm a bit of a stalker. Just loving the look of the old mitre boxes and nearly bought a Stanley last fall but held off as I have no room for mitre box being in an apartment. Long story to short, I was digging in my parts box from a purchase of plane parts last year and discovered this:


















While I could add it to the buy and sell section, I think it would reach an audience who would have a use for it by mentioning here. If anyone out there can make use of it, I'll trade for 1/8" chisel. PM me if you are interested.

Iain


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## Poa

I probably have an 1/8 chisel I would trade. You can email me @ [email protected] My PM function seems to have a glitch.


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## theoldfart

It is done!










More pics on the Show the Restoration before and after thread.


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## JethroBodean

To quote Oliver Twist…Please Sir I Want Some More.

That looks beautiful.


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## Poa

Looking good, Kevin. Have you made any cuts with it? Also, what do you figure it is missing? Are there any bits on mine that you need?


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## Poa

Looking good, Kevin. Have you made any cuts with it? Also, what do you figure it is missing? Are there any bits on mine that you need?


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## theoldfart

Jon, I made a test cut and it was square in both dimensions, haven't tested angle cuts yet.

The only missing part is a coping rest. It looks like an inverted V and bolts through the base.

When you have a chance, could you send some more pics of your two Dorns? Yours are a later version capable of using the compound wings from Dorns last patent.

Jeff thanks, it is pretty cool. I'll post more detailed pics later today along with some specs and observations.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop




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## theoldfart

oh yea, kicked it up a notch!


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## Poa

I haven't used either of my Stars, Smitty. How do you like using one? Accurate?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'd say as good as can be expected. If it's dead nuts perfect you're seeking, this gets you a lot closer than by hand. On a 7" board, no saw is guided fully through the cut. But the Star works pretty darned well.


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## theoldfart

Smitty, forgot to ask, whatcha buildin' ?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hah! That's just a piece of baseboard in the old house next door. Moved a bathroom door over a few inches and needed a new board cut. Wish it were something much more interesting!


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## ToddJB

You guys are moving wood around than bhog looking at someone else's wife.


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## theoldfart

Still?


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## ToddJB

> You guys are moving wood around than bhog looking at someone else s wife.
> 
> - ToddJB


Wrong forum…. Grr


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## HokieKen

Saw this Craigslist ad for a local miter box and had a chuckle at the description


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## JethroBodean

And here I thought that was a "Millennial" box. Way too new for my tastes.


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## bandit571

Had one of those a few years back….wasn't all that impressed with it. Those black "O" rings are rubber….not bearings….and wear away too fast. 









Hmmm…









Well, it IS sitting on a Saw bench…was checking things for square, at the time..









4×22 saw. Saw came with the box, Spent $5 at a barn sale….


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## theoldfart

Ken, maybe "OK Boomer" would have been more appropriate!


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## tshiker

TOF, congratulations, what a great looking box!


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## theoldfart

Tom, thanks. How've you been?


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## DanKrager

This would work for a compound miter saw, and a lot more. The awkwardness of long pieces could be lessened if the unit is mounted on a lazy suzan so the long piece can rest on outriggers like any other miter saw might do. It does have severe limitations on width, again like many miter boxes.

The price is still a hangup, but it's not so far from either a good vintage box w saw or a decent power box.

Just thinking out loud.

DanK


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## theoldfart

Dan, I will argue with you about the price being not far from a good vintage mitre box and saw. A good mitre box and saw can still be had for a hundred dollars or less. There are certainly some models that bring a higher price based on their scarcity, but watching Craigs List regularly will give results.


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## JethroBodean

I'm with Don, of my several boxes, I have only once paid over $50. I spent $66.70 (with shipping) on my first Stanley 150 with a beautiful Disston 12" backsaw. Admittedly I am a cheap bottom feeder who trolls the local Craigslist, 4 different Habitat for Humaniity Restores, Antique Stores and once I even found one at a Goodwill. Most of my boxes are pre-1940 Stanley, Goodell-Pratt, a few Millers Falls and one Nicholls. And I have enough boxes now that I can be pretty ruthless with my offers, I'm just OK if I don't get a specific box. With diligent looking and patience you can find some pretty nice boxes. The trick is to hopefully find them locally, shipping is the killer. Whenever I head out of town I try to check the Craigslist for wherever I going. I've found a couple of boxes that way.


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## Poa

Jeff has it right. All the good deals I have found have been local purchases. Even a No. 346, complete, in its original shipping box, for, if I remember right, 75 bucks. However, I will admit that I am guilty of paying some pretty high dollar for my small Langdons, and my two little GPs. However, over the course of the last year, I have seen them selling for one hundred to two hundred dollars more than I have been paying, so investment wise, I think the diminutive Langdons and Pratts, (No. 16 and no.15 1/2 Langdons, and No. 1625 GPs), will continue to go up. Bode consistently sells the Langdons for upwards of 600 bucks. And shipping is a real consideration. Once in a while I see an ebay listing that is an extremely good deal for a box, but only because the poor seller is unaware of how much of a bitch they are to package for shipping, and how expensive it is. It costs me 75 bucks to safely ship one across the continent, and that does not include my time or materials. When I see ebay sellers promising to ship one for free or for like 20 or 30 bucks, I usually reach out and warn them. Sometimes their buy it now price combined with their shipping fee mean that it will cost them more to ship it than their total listing amount is. They will lose money.

.


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## HokieKen

This is highly dependent on region fellas. I hit the Habitat store 2-3 times a week on my lunch break and other thrift stores whenever I see one and have time to kill. I've never found a box worth buying. I have picked up a couple of decent Disston saws but those were few and far between. Yard sales may yield better results but I don't do those unless the wife wants to. Free Saturday mornings are too precious ;-) And our only local flea market was shut down a few years ago. Antique stores occasionally have some good tools. But I can usually get the same thing shipped for less online. And that CL post I linked the other day? Probably the 5th miter box I've ever seen on there. Maybe FB is better? I dunno because I don't do FB…

Just my $.02 from southwest Virginia 

I only have 2 boxes and they were both less than $50 shipped each. I spent more on shipping and sharpening for saws than I did on the boxes. And both saws were basically free! Thanks POA and Bandit


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## HokieKen

Now for what I hopped on here for to begin with…

I'm finally fettling my 150 box.

How strong should the leaf springs in the left side guide be? I can get the saw adjusted square but it seems like there's still an awful lot of freedom for the saw to rotate.

With the saw at rest and an angle box zeroed out:









Seems too easy to rotate it a couple degrees with just a little torsion on the tote:









This is probably something I will just naturally learn to compensate for but, it also seems like some stronger springs in there would go a long way. Just curious if all these boxes are like that or if I should try to bend or replace these springs?

Thanks boys!


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## bandit571

IF during "Yard Sale Season" you see the the words "Barn Sale"....be there when it opens…period.

Langdon 75,complete..with a stand…$15

A complete Stanley 346….$15…...no stand…

In the words of Sherlock Holmes. "Watson, the game is a-foot! "

IF they open on a Thursday morning @ 8am….BE THERE at 8:00:01, and help them put up the SALE! signs.


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## tshiker

Hi Kevin, I'm doing well despite the crap storm blowing all around me! I decided to use some of my isolation time to freshen up a box and saw I picked up a few years ago. I posted a picture of this box not too long ago cause the tag is kind of unique.























































The saw is finished and a new bed has been made. I post more pictures as I progress.

I hope you're well!


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## theoldfart

The saw looks good Tom, Mat Cianci would be proud!


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## theoldfart

https://www.lumberjocks.com/theoldfart/blog/130921

Posted a video of the Dorn's mitre box on my blog for those who are anal-retentive to watch such things.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Awesome!


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## JethroBodean

Maybe I'm suffering from Covid-19 Crazy irritation…but this kind ebay item drives me crazy. I want to think the seller is just ignorant, but they are selling a "*Stanley Mitre Box 2358 - Vintage Tool - Good Condition - Miter - Made in USA*". Notice the "*Good Condition*" part.

The Description reads as:

*Good vintage condition - Does not include saw - Please see pictures.
Stanley Mitre Box model 2358
Made in the USA
*

But when you look at the pictures:

the quadrant has been cut out of the bed
it has been poorly painted an ugly pale blue color
no Saw Guides
no stock guides
no depth stops
for the length stop there is just a single rod.

But a box like this the seller feels is in *Good vintage condition*, yeah right!!! Aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh!

Quick I need a Corona Beer!


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## Poa

So Jeff, you didn't perchance rattle his cage, didcha? The listing is terminated.

Edit….oops. apparently not. Still exists.


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## dbray45

It is missing a whole bunch of stuff to make it usable


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## Poa

Wrong, David. Its perfectly usable. Bilge ballast for my yawl. Or, maybe even an anchor for the skiff.


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## theoldfart

Jeff, I'm sure with a little effort on your part you could adapt to its shortcomings. Some duct tape, elbow grease, nitro…..

That seller makes Joe Isuzu look good. You DO remember Joe Isuzu?


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## JethroBodean

TOF - Joe Isuzu is ringing a really faint bell so I looked him up and he is still ringing a really faint bell, sorry.

BTW: Right after I posted my rant, I got a little worried. I said to myself, "Self, I sure hope this isn't one of the boxes that has been restored by POA!" ;-)


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## bandit571

Hmmmm…
















The No. 2246A..or…









The Stanley 346…..


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## theoldfart

Joe Isuzu was famous for saying "trust me" in car ads.


----------



## Poa

Well hey, trust me, that box is the very rare Stanley Guideless No. 2469. I have listed it under a false name, because I am afraid of being targeted by thieves if they know its in my possession. Eat your heart out, Jeff. You don't have one.


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## JethroBodean

If I double the asking price can I have it? I've since heard that paint color was only available for a very short time.


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## theoldfart

Joe Isuzu

Just in case you were wondering.


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## tshiker

Progress! The new bed is finished, the complete lower section of the box has been disassembled, cleaned, repainted, oiled and reassembled.



























The uprights are next.


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## theoldfart

Nice work Tom. Gonna sell it for a million dollars?


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## tshiker

"Nice work Tom. Gonna sell it for a million dollars? "

And lose money?!


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## Poa

Excellent job, Tom.


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## tshiker

Finished!


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## Poa

Thats a nice job on that box. I'm curious, did you choose all black, and the gray, because you found traces of the original paint on all of the parts, or did you just go by personal preference? I have been trying to figure out the vintages of various color schemes.


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## bandit571

Hmmm…









In the midst of all the shop rehab…found this hanging around….not a fan…Impulse hardened teeth…way too much set…and way too short….Ovibell GmbH & Co. KG…....sold at Aldi's…..


----------



## tshiker

Thanks Poa! I chose the paint colors based on the existing paint (my before pic's show the color of the box as I received it) and the closest spray paint colors I had in stock. It's my belief that this is close to the factory colors based on the fact that all the parts I sanded and or wire wheeled, had no other color under the top coat. That being said my up till now daily user is of the same vintage yet all the castings minus the fence portion are a shade of blue (the fence is the same shade of gray / silver as my newly renovated box) hope this helps! Btw would you have a source for the round disk to use the stock guides as a repeat cut stop?

Thanks
Tom.


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## Poa

Tom… later today I will see if I have an extra disc in my parts inventory.


----------



## JethroBodean

> Btw would you have a source for the round disk to use the stock guides as a repeat cut stop?


Tom - you have the tree and rods on that box, so it would not have come with the the in-bed disk.


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## Poa

Jeff….I assume he is asking about it for another box.


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## JethroBodean

My bad…I leaped to a conclusion.


----------



## Poa

Jeff. Not necessarily. Maybe it was I that leaped to a conclusion. I am sure Tom will let us know.


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## tshiker

Hi Jeff, I wasn't aware of that! Thanks for the information. I would still like to add the disk to my bed. I could be wrong but it looks much easier to setup for certain cuts then the rods and tree. I'm not too concerned about keeping the box close to stock, I'd rather make it convenient!


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## tshiker

Poa, Thanks for looking!


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## JethroBodean

The in bed disk is easier than the tree and rod for set-up. But of course you don't have the range of lengths. But to be honest if the length stop is to be within the bed, I usual don't use either. I just clamp a scrap board to the fence.


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## 33706

I remember seeing some recent comments about 'manual compound mitre boxes' and realized that I don't think I've ever seen one.

Then this posting in a local 'Kijiji' (craigslist in Canada) turned up and I want to know your impressions…. Is it worth having, or just junk? Gone are the days when you could travel and browse peoples used stuff for sale.










No additional info was provided by the seller, other than the item was listed as a "*Corner Cutter*"!!!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^nevwrseen auch a thing myself, pk


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## Poa

Interesting box. Never seen one before. But being a decrepit lecherous old man before my time, I must confess the new stuff just doesn't do it for me. If it ain't wrinkled, shriveled, rusted, or busted, I can't imagine the attraction. What, you just take it home and immediately start using it? No tinkering, smell tests, fruitless searches for missing bits? Man, thats begging for dementia. No thanks. Too shiney. My eyes are bad enough as it is.


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## theoldfart

If it's not too expensive it might be worth some investigation. Seems light weight, just moldings and trim I would guess.


----------



## 33706

Thanks for all the replies! It has now been listed on another site, with more info finally. This is apparently a "Kupper" compound miter box, manufactured in Germany and has been discontinued from availability in North America.
*Poa:* Guys who know me know I have perhaps 1,000 items in need of de-rusting, remachining, missing parts, or otherwise in my hand tool hospital. Took me 66 years to find a manual mitre saw, why should I let this first one get away?
*Kevin:* I was warned about Chinese knockoffs of this very unit, so I'll proceed with my usual caution. Or not! The saw unit itself resembles cheesy 'Mastercraft' or other low-line products, but if it is indeed German, I just need to figure out if it's Mercedes…or VW. I recall only one time during my apprentice years having to make a compound miter cut, it was on white oak bank teller fixtures, and fortunately somebody brought in a electric compound chop saw, which to me was a real novelty at the time, 40+ years ago. This design would certainly solve a problem someday, might be nice to have even if it just collects dust.


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## bandit571

Or..a Jorgensen….


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## 33706

bandit: I've never seen a Jorgensen mitre box! Now I want one!! yours looks like it has all the bells and whistles, too.


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## HokieKen

I'd snag that thing if it popped up on my local CL PK. Like Jon said, it ain't pretty and it don't give me the warm fuzzies. But it does look like a well-thought-out design and appears to be pretty well constructed. I have really enjoyed using my vintage miter boxes but when I need a dead flat, smooth cut that's dead square, I still go to the tablesaw with my Incra miter gauge ;-)


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## Poa

Yep, Ken, thats pretty much the deal. I use a 12" Makita in the field, and a 10" Festool in the shop. Unless I am relaxing, instead of putting in meat for the winter. Then its kinda fun to push a Disston back and forth.


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## Poa

Anyone recognize this?


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## JethroBodean

Yep, that's a Nicholls.

More pictures if you please.










From 'The National Builder', Jan 1903

COMMON SENSE MITER BOX

The Nicholls Common Sense Miter Box Improved which is so clearly illustrated in Hardsocg & Nicholls advertisement in this journal although just placed on the market is with a good demand.

Carpenters who purchased the improved miter box state that it gives perfect satisfaction. Hardsocg & Nicholls state that they will send one of their useful Common Sense miter boxes to any responsible person subject to approval.

The new feature which they have incorporated is instantly appreciated by every builder and carpenter. It is constructed so that when the latch is released it raises the saw so it will swing over stock to be cut making it very easy to obtain any cut where angle is not known. As soon as the latch is released it locks swinging bar and allowing same to cut through stock. It is claimed that it is not necessary to raise saw with the hand. This miter box is furnished 3 feet long ready for use as shown in the cut with either four or five inch saw of any length and with the Henry Disston or the Atkins Silver Steel saw.

Hardsocg & Nicholls also manufacture a smaller box two feet long same style with a three by twenty inch saw.

It is impossible to properly describe these goods in an article of this character and it can only be. Suggested that those interested send for circulars and descriptive matter and if the goods appear satisfactory to order same subject to inspection before paying for same.


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## Poa

Yes, please, more pics.


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## JethroBodean

I was asking you for more pics! I've already posted some shots of a Nicholls box I picked just after Christmas.



> Boy am I a happy camper; I just took possession of a very interesting "Nicholls Mfg Co" Miter Box. The 1903-08-15 Patent was issued to "MOSES NICHOLLS, OF OTTUMWA, IOWA" . At first glance this box looks pretty much like many of the other turn of the century boxes. You have metal legs, a swing arm with upright posts & saw guides and a back fence.
> 
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> This one is unusual in that it does not actually come with a lower base. Instead you screw the legs to the bottom of a "removable base" (a board) then the Swing arm assembly attaches with clamping screws.
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> There is also a clamp-on extension back , as the fence on the swing arm is rather short lengthwise.
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> One other interesting feature is that squeezing the swing arm release level also causes both saw guides to raise up about an inch. Which lifts the saw free from the kerf in bed, making it easier to change the angle of the swing arm.
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> The quadrant looks to be brass on top of the cast iron frame and is easily read, however there are no predetermined stop points.
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> It turns out that Nicholls had patents for at least 3 other Miter Boxes (1895-04-02 , 1898-11-29 and 1904-12-27 ).
> 
> I don t remember seeing any Nicholls boxes mentioned here before. Does anybody else have a Nicholls box? I m just wondering what the general LJ opinion is of them. From my searches I am finding almost nothing on the internet outside of the patents and a couple of EBay listings.
> 
> - JethroBodean


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## Poa

Sorry, this box I was inquiring about belongs to a feller in a Facebook saw group I belong too. I knew I had seen one before, but my severly impaired brain cannot remember anything past fourteen minutes and thirty two seconds ago. I have tried talking him out of the box, but it ain't working. Now I will be seriously impaired in my day to day efforts to survive this thing called "life", until one of these boxes lands in my possession. You know, you could actually prevent a suicide by parting with yours. Its the humane thing to do.


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## JethroBodean

Ok, I just found another EBay wonder:

*Very Nice Complete Stanley cast iron Miter Box with Saw excellent condition*

"excellent condition" and "with Saw"; I think not, but you decide.


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## theoldfart

Yep, it's a saw (sort of). Make you wonder about the intelligence of 
a. Potential buyers
b. The seller

Of course it does provide comic relief for these times!


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## Poa

Looks like an Atkins nesting handle with a nested pruning saw plate. Or, could be Disston. Very similiar.

I do like the open frame. Sometimes its beneficial to set your box on a glass table, and have a helper make a cut, while you monitor the progress from underneath. Its a little known technique, only practiced by true masters. Just prior to the saw breaking through, you can finish the cut by removing the board from the mitre box, grasping the stock with both hands, and separating the cut with a downward thrust over a raised knee. If done properly, you will be rewarded with a very gratifying snapping sound, that is an unmistakable sign of a perfectly executed cut.


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## theoldfart

^
POA for the win, bravo !


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## HokieKen

Any real advantage of an "All Steel" box over my Langdon 75? Best I can tell, the only real difference is a that the structure is cast iron on the Acme boxes and welded steel on the All Steel boxes. This box popped up on CL this morning. It looks complete and appears to have the monster original saw but I don't have need or space for another big box and this price doesn't really strike me as a deal I can't pass up. Plus Bob S. sharpened the saw for my Langdon so I'm not inclined to let loose of that puppy


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## Poa

Thats a 6" saw and box. Some of the Bishop saws have that exaggerated sweep on the heel, but then, so do some with Warranted Superior medallions. Do you need a box that big? I would buy it at 75, but only to clean it up and resell it.


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## HokieKen

No Jon, I don't need a box that big. My Langdon with the 5" saw you sent me is big enough to suit my needs. If I were to buy that one, I would sell the Langdon. So the size is no real advantage to me. I just wondered if there was anything about the box that gave it a mechanical/functional advantage over my Langdon.

As far as flipping it, there is no local market for these things either as a buyer or a seller. So, if I were to flip it, it would be a matter of selling it on Ebay. And when shipping gets involved, I'm not sure what profit I could turn would be worthwhile.


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## DLK

Hmm… I have an "all steel box", and (freshly sharpened) saw. I will keep you in mind John if I decide I need the space. Some how I collected 7 boxes. I only really need 3 of them. Pictures some day.


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## Poa

When I say "I would buy it at 75" I am talking about if I found it in the wild. As Ken points out, shipping would be prohibitive to buy the box online and have it shipped.


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## DLK

Oh. I see. I paid $6 for the box and $10 for the saw, but who am I to judge. I did have a MF-L 74c taken apart and shipped to be once. Shipping did cost more than the saw, but you can reduce the cost considerably if you take the box all apart.


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## OleGrump

I love how SO many would be sellers show photos of a wrong style saw and/or the saw is invariably inserted in the box backwards. Makes me glad to be old enough to have grown up in another century, when we actually did things with our hands, not just twiddle our thumbs on a damned cell phone…..


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## Poa

Well….I landed the Nichols I asked about the other day. The feller that had it decided that it wasn't something he would use or display. So he cotnacted me with an offer for me to purchase it. I received it today, and its an understatement to say I am jacked. This box rates as one of my favorites so far. Even more so than my Muellers or my Hughes boxes. (Kevin, keep your eyes open, these are really cool boxes). I haven't had any time, really, to decide what I will do to the box yet. Just a thorough cleaning, probably. And maybe some better screws, more early 20th century, for the screws that hold the user made fences to the frame. Perhaps brass oval head, aged. And a couple brass flatheads, aged, to go through the cast fence into the wooden table. I really like brass as an accent on old tools. Discovering that the quadrant on this box is brass was an added bonus. I didn't know that was the case.

As far as utility goes, it is one of the cool things about this box. The box is remarkably simple. There are no indents. The locking mechanism simply pinches the quadrant, and seems to hold its place quite well. The calibrations on the brass quadrant are laid out so that the width of the swingarm is embraced on both sides between two lines at the marked angle. Another very dynamite feature is the saw lift. When you release the swingarm by lifting the release lever, both the heel and the toe of the saw is lifted in unison. A drawback to this design, though, is that there is not provision for holding the saw in a raised position.

Anyway, when I have time, I will get further into this box, with pics. A satisfying addition to my collection.

EDIT. ....see now, if I woulda read Jeff's posting closer, I woulda known all this stuff. And dang it, I know I will never talk him out of the clamp on piece that serves as a fence extension. And finding one would be like a Twilght Zone event. Oh well. Slap me.


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## JethroBodean

I sure have enjoyed the one I found earlier this year. Congrats. So what size it the saw? I think that just might be the smaller of the 2 box sizes. Maybe we should find someplace private and compare sizes?? ;-)


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## Poa

The saw is a 4 incher thats been filed a few times. Barely makes it to the table with the front guide adusted all the way down. When I get a chance I'll measure the frame and let you know sizes.


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## JethroBodean

POA - I took a few measurements on my Nicholls Box so we can determine how our compare to each other.

Between the center of the saw guides is about 10.25 inches:









The length of the Saw Guides is 10.5 inches:









The distance between the two clamp screw of the base is 13.75 inches:









And finally, the width of the metal fence is just a shade over 7 inches:


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## Poa

Jeff… have gotten tied up a bit. Sorry for my belated response. I will try to respond layer today.


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## Poa

So Jeff, apparently, your guides are for a 5" saw, whereas mine are for a 4". Center to center on the guides is approx the same, as is fence length. The actual rear stationary guide post height is as pictured. Basically, I think our frames are the same. But I assume the stationary guide posts are taller on your swingarm, because of your longer guides?

Gotta love the swingarm springs. Cool set up.

You asked about the "extra lever". It enables a person to lift the saw without loosening the swingarm's angle setting. I have tried to explain it with the pictures. The last pic shows how the lever raises the saw independent of the swingarm lever.


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## theoldfart

Really cool setup.


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## tshiker

Hey boys! I'm hoping someone can help me out. I recently acquired a Simmonds backsaw that I think belongs with a Langdon 15 1/2 mitre box. The saw measures 16" x 2-3/8". It has a Simmonds medallion and the etch reads Millers Falls Mass. and what I'm pretty sure is "Langdon Mitre Box" but the etch is not 100% there. My problem is the tip of the logo goes into the tooth line. Now this might be caused by sharpening, hence the missing 1/8th inch of plate but I have nothing to compare it to. I'm hoping one of you own or have pictures of a Simmonds saw made for the 15-1/2 that I can use as a comparison. Please look at the pictures and let me know what you think! Thanks! I'm going to cross post this on the "handsaw of your dreams" too just in case. 
ps the last picture is just for fun!


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## tshiker

Don't know why they didn't show up the first time!


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## theoldfart

Tom, that etch is way too close to the tooth line. I think the saw was 3" at one time since there is a bigger gap from the spine to the etch. POA is the guy to ask.


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## tshiker

TOF said "since there is a bigger gap from the spine to the etch" Thanks, Kevin. The only example I can find online is from Jim Bode's website. And on his Simmonds saw the etch starts low under the spine also, but his doesn't have the Millers Falls triangle logo that I can see. This is why I want to look at other examples. I have every reason to believe the plate and handle are original to each other. I'm by no stretch of the imagination an expert on this stuff, but in my research I can't find any other backsaws that only have two saw nuts and are over 14" long. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Poa

I do not believe Simonds made a 3" x 16" mitre box saw for Langdon. Or for anyone else. You are correct, your saw was included with a Langdon No 15 1/2. The plate, when new, would have measured 2-1/2" from the toothline to the bottom of the spine. Here is a picture of a full 2-1/2" plate, with the etch. As you can see, the etch on your plate is placed correctly, considering the amount of your plate that has been sharpened away.

Edit: Btw…. your saw plate can be pulled out of the spine slightly, to increase the plate height. But it needs to be done very carefully, or you will pull a bow into the plate.


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## tshiker

Mistake!


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## tshiker

Perfect! Thank you very much Poa! If and when you have some time could you post a few pictures of your saw for me? any idea when this saw was made? Did you have a chance to look for the disk for my Stanley box we spoke about?


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## Poa

Ha! Thanks for reminding me. No idea why, maybe the quarantine, but have been getting a bunch of inquiries about parts, and am losing track.

I wll post some pics of the saw later on. Pretty much the same as yours, except mine still has traces of bluing on the spine. Can't tell if yours does.

As far as the disc goes, email me at [email protected]


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## theoldfart

POA for the save.


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## theoldfart

So, i'm not a collector but…........

eBay win today

Goodell Greenfield

Pics when I get it.


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## Poa

Good score, Kevin. So now we know of 4 of them. The one pictured on the Langdon site, yours, and the two I have. I grabbed one off of ebay, a couple years back. But the second one I grabbed was kinda suprising. It came out of a garage sale just a couple miles from me. It was the only old tool in the sale, and the seller had no idea where he had got it, but he thought maybe it had been his dad's.


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## theoldfart

Yea, the design is a bit of a departure for Goodell, Millers, and Langdon. I think it's complete but the EBay pics are not the most informative.


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## JethroBodean

Kevin
I've looked at the patent drawings of the greenfields (978,576, Patented Dec. 13, 1910, I believe) many, many time over the years. But since I too am not a collector, I have been trying to locate one of them. (ignore the drool, its not mine I swear) I'll be interested to see the pics once you have it in had. Nice pick.
Thirty plus Stanley, Traut, GP, and Nicholls boxes is not excessive, right? (I would love to someday find a Kwalle Automatic Mitre Box, but I wouldn't collect it)


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## theoldfart

Jeff, I thought the first Greenfield patent by Goodell was dated 1909, I'll go back and look. Now, we do not say the word *collector* out loud. It triggers an unwanted reaction in the non informed and spouses. That being said some day I will have a 1. Jacobs, 2. A D Hughes 3. Nichollls and 4. a later Dorn with tilting tables.

But I am not a collector! And I have the shirt to prove it










Hah!

Edit; Patent applied for 1909, granted 1910

BTW, I think POA has a few Greenfields and maybe he'd be willing to lighten his load.


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## JethroBodean

I have the same shirt in orange and long sleeved.


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## BlasterStumps

tof, just wanted to tell you, your shop has been quite an inspiration for me in putting together my new work area. I like it. That is a cool picture also. 
I might say also that several other guys on the mitre box thread have given me inspiration as well. After seeing your work areas, I new it was time to clean up and organize. Thanks all.


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## Mosquito

I still need to get around to making a saw for my 15-1/2. I think it will live in my tool chest, as I'm starting to clean it out of all the "Just throw it in there to move it" stuff, when we moved to the new house a few (*cough* 5 *cought*) years ago

I love your selection of boxes Kevin. Your video a little while back made me go looking through all the miterboxes on eBay lol


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## theoldfart

Mike, I appreciate the compliment. Can you now tell my wife how great it is. 

Jeff, that used to be my tag line, Don asked if it was ok to put it on his t shirt line. Glad you bought one.

Mos, trolling the Bay used to be much more productive mitre box wise. I got my Northampton Langdon on the Bay along with a Richardson back saw that I think was original to the box.


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## 33706

Great looking shop, Kevin!


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## theoldfart

Thanks PK. I t's a bit crowded right now, two restorations, milled lumber for a railroad passenger car restoration, a dressing table almost done, a saw cabinet upcycle starting, and ….....

It never ends. Luckily!


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## theoldfart

Here is the Goodell Greenfield mitre box.



















The decking appears to be original. The post setup is a bit different compared to most boxes.










It slides on a full length keyway. And underneath looks normal










Unfortunately the seller was inexperienced in shipping these. They relied on bubble wrap, not a great idea with this much mass. A tab that the leg bolt goes through broke. I think my buddy can braze it back on. Not a fatal injury but hurts nonetheless.

Jon, I don't think anything is missing. Let me know if i'm mistaken. It will need a stronger spring under the lever, it doesn't engage the notches readily, needs help.


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## bandit571

Last year, a friend dropped off a #358 box to rehab….as she didn't want it, anymore. Just the box…last week, she sent the saw that went with it to me…..needed cleaned up. She lost the bolts, somewhere ( still looking for them..) so…








I happened to have a few spares…from a junker 4×26 saw….

About one brass bolt short. Saw works great, though…..even has a full, readable Disston etch….just like the other one I have ( it did come with 3 bolts, when new)...so, now I have too many 5×28 saws in the shop….including a Goodell Pratt Co. etched saw…...may need to make a til just for backsaws….


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## Poa

Hey Kevin. Bummer about the breakage. I am in the habit of contacting sellers before they ship, and giving them a primer about packaging. It usually works, but unfortunately the last box sent to me had breakage, despite my efforts. Very disappointing to anticipate the arrival of a desired box, only to discover damage.

Your Greenfield looks correct and complete. Do you see traces of color on yours? One of mine seems to imply the green that was popular on early Langdons and some of the Pratt All Steels.

On another note, it seems I am about to embark on another of life's unexpected adventures. I have been diagnosed with lung cancer. Not sure yet of the stage or extent. Point being, I may be liquidating my collection of boxes, saws, planes, etc.. As it applies to this group, many of you know some of the details of what I have. Langdon 15 1/2s, 16 1/2s, with saws. A couple of Hughes boxes. Early Stanleys, (one with a bronze leg, and a cast steel leg. I believe it to be the first model Stanley). Also later restored Stanleys. One Stanley I am especially fond of is my Sweetheart No. 240, complete with its original 4" x 20" Atkins in almost pristine condiition. (The smallest box that Stanley made in its 200 series boxes). Quite a few Stanley 150s. Also some fully complete GP All Steels, and a few near complete. Both sizes of the Jacobs boxes, And a couple of Dorns, near complete. Numerous parts, mostly Stanley, but some Langdon and GP. Also a nice Stanley No.100 with a rule and cut stop. Hmm…more, as well, if you wanna count Langdon Stars, both fixed and compound, and a few of the Stearns style fixtures, such as the Red Devils. So hey, stay tuned. I will be making a decision in the next week or so. Really don't wanna do the ebay thing, so my prices will not have to figure in the ebay 10% cut. Feel free to mention the possible availability of this collection, to anyone. But not the reason for it, outside this group


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## theoldfart

Jon, that is lousy news. Hang in there.

The colors seem to be black and silver.

I figured since the seller was in Reno and it didn't have far to travel it'd be good. Guess not!


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## theoldfart

Detail on the elevator post


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## HokieKen

That's a bad hand to be dealt Jon. My FIL was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer last May after having never smoked a single cigarette in his 73 years. Thirteen months later he's still healthy and active and you'd never know there was a thing wrong with him. There are amazing treatments these days and with minimal side effects. The cancer is still there but hasn't grown at all thanks to a single pill a day that has no real side effects for him.

I say all that simply to say, don't fold under to hopelessness no matter what you're told or what the numbers are! I ain't gonna start shopping your collection yet. I have a feeling they'll stay put for quite some time yet )


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## BlasterStumps

Jon, I wish you the very best in getting treatment and whipping this cancer. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## theoldfart

Turns out there are two breaks.










A bigger challenge for sure but still doable. Still haven't heard back from the seller. One more try then, consequences!


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## DonBroussard

Poa- Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Keep your tools sharp, and your mind and spirit even sharper.


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## Poa

Thanks all for your well wishes.

Kevin. Don't return it. For what you paid, still worth it. Maybe get a bit of a refund. But if not, I would still hang onto it. Disappointing though, I know.


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## theoldfart

Jon, no intention of returning it. Asked the seller to get in touch and we could work something out.

And now another box 

The director of the museum where I volunteer brought in his fathers Stanley 2358, asked if I could get it back to shape. He's donating it to us for the shop. Missing a few parts but fully usable right now.

So another restoration project!


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## Mosquito

damn Poa, that sucks :-( Sorry to hear it

Sucks about the damage Kevin. If it shipped UPS, hopefully the insurance process is kind to it… I went through that with a Keen Kutter miterbox once, and the insurance process sucked. Had to send it back to them (UPS), who then sent it back to the seller, but it arrived at the seller's more damaged than when it arrived to me, though I did still end up with it for a pretty steep discount


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## theoldfart

Mos, not enough value to warrant the insurance process. Worst case I keep it and no discount. Best case the seller refunds part/all the shipping cost. Either way I have the box.


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## Mosquito

true that. Helps that it's in a non-visible spot too. In my case, one foot arrived broken off, and by the time all was said and done that foot was still broken, and the other one was broken in the part that connected the two feet underneath the box, and the opposite foot to the broken one was also broken


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## Poa

Kevin. Whats the 2358 missing? Odds are, I'll have it.


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## theoldfart

Jon, the spring mechanism that holds up the saw, the stock guides and the repeat cut rods and tree.










The rear post has it, just missing the front.

Edit: The box


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## Poa

I have the spring, the plunger, and the screw. Unfortunately the spring has a partial break, but still works. Its a common place for them to bust. ( If your welder is any good, he should be able to spark a spot weld on the crack. But it will need to be done well, because the weld itself will need to be filed to the thickness of the spring.) I will get them in the mail to you along with a tree and coupler the next time I get to town. The rods are simply 5/16" solid round stock, 23-1/2" long. You can get that at any H. Depot, Hdwr. store, etc.


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## theoldfart

Jon, thank you. No rush, when it suits you.


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## Poa

Ok guys. Ends up that it looks like I will liquidate. In the near future, within days, I will be posting a list. And I am not doing this with any expectations. Its simply what I have, its for sale, and if someone wants any of it, great, and, if not, thats great too. I won't be giving boxes away. But I will be offering them at extremely low prices, comparatively, to what the major sellers and Ebay rake in on them. Of course, shipping is what it is, I can't help that. I will also be compiling a list of planes, some highly desirable, and other assorted desirable tools. I want to try to avoid offering bulk purchases to the heavy hitters like Bode, but if I can't sell individually, I may go to that option. Stay tuned.


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## 33706

This one just came in, a Sears miter box with a kool 14 pt. saw.

Model: *881.36505 
*
Saw is Kromedge *36185, 28",* 11 pt.



















This is the only one I have that is less than 50 yrs old….or is it?


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## Poa

Is anyone here interested in becoming a parts custodian? I would ship my parts inventory, bulk, to you, and you could maintain the inventory for current and future participants here. I don't care if you sell to participants, or simply donate parts to them.


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## JethroBodean

I am probably not the best person, I'm a bit of a flake at times. But in a vacuum (lack of another volunteer) I would be willing.


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## theoldfart

Jon, I'll do it. PM me.


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## Poa

Thanks guys. I appreciate it. Kevin, I sent you an email.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, incredible generosity on this thread! Amazing!


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## Johnny7

*Poa*-we are all hopeful for a successful outcome for you.

*Kevin* (TOF) - what an outstanding and selfless gesture.


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## HokieKen

Yes, thanks to both of you for sharing your knowledge and your inventory and a willingness to always help just for the love of the tools and the benefit of the users.

If I can help, please let me know. I just don't have .1% the knowledge of these boxes some of you fellas have so I'm hesitant to volunteer for anything more than grunt work…


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## Mosquito

Again, sorry to heart it Poa :-( Here's hoping it's just a temporary purge and just means you get to put it towards other boxes instead…


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## theoldfart

If the stars align I'll have a new (to me) mitre box tomorrow evening. A KeenKutter in pretty good shape. Cross your digits!


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## tshiker

Good luck Kevin!


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## theoldfart

Jackpot, EC Stearns Keen Kutter. Complete with 28×5 saw with KK medalion.










More details as I clean it up.

Edit: correction EC Simmons not Stearns!


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## HokieKen

Are you a collector yet Kev? Nice looking KK!


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## Poa

First one I have seen with stops and hold downs. Great score!


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## BlasterStumps

I'd be a little excited too tof, that box is pretty sweet. First one I have seen as well.


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## theoldfart

It'll need cleaning, there is a broken spring clip on the gib arm, and I have no idea as to dating. It does have a serial number so maybe that'll help with dating. The saw needs a Summerfield visit as well.


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## Mosquito

That's what I said too Poa! Mine was missing those, so even if the box showed up at Kevin's completely shattered (it wasn't shipped I don't think), I would have offered to buy those for basically what he got it for 

Box itself looks in better shape than mine (mine got broken legs in shipping)


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## theoldfart

A CL find in Davis, about an hours drive southeast of me.


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## Mosquito

If you find any good resources on nailing down the date range of these, I'd be interested. I've been trying to figure that out for mine as well. I haven't seen it in any catalogs I've found after 1939, but haven't found anything specific around when they may have quit making them yet.

I have seen it in 1912 dated catalogs


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## theoldfart

Any good sources possible at MWTCA?


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## Poa

Kevin. Dating the saw may be the better bet. Handle shape. Heel shape. Plate length including what is in the handle. Screw amount and placement. Screws nickel plated or brass? How about a couple good pics of the saw?


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## Mosquito

Well, for my box in particularly, the logo likeness that they use was reported to be in use between 1905 and 1946. I've looked through the archived catalog of gristmill issues and articles, and haven't found much around it. Have done a little research on it

One of the articles I had read about H. C. Marsh noted that the early H.C. Marsh miterboxes were cast legs, where later ones were steel. I believe H. C. Marsh Tool Co. was bought by Stanley in 1926, but I'm not sure how long Stanley kept manufacturing this style of miter box, or if they did


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## Mosquito

Poa, just so happens I already have some of that available for mine


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## theoldfart

At the railroad now, I'll post pics later.


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## CL810

Nice one Kevin!

I have a 246 with the wrong length stop stand. The hole for the bottom rod is 1/8" too high. The number 2 is imprinted on it.

Does anyone know what number stand I need for the 246? Anyone have one you are willing to part with?


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## Poa

CL….

There are only 2 sizes. No. 2 and No. 3. Your issue is somewhat inexplicable. Not something I have ran into before. Here are some pics. No. 2 always on the left. The legs are from a No. 240, which should be the same height as the 246 legs. My guess is that you need to have the pointed/knurled leveler cap screws in the legs, slightly protruded. In the pictures I show the gap between the leg foot and bench surface created by the No. 2 tree when a rod is through the leg and tree. As you can see, the gap is nominal when the No. 2 tree is engaged, certainly a small enough gap to be taken up by the leveler screw. Also, is it possible that some of the material on the leg has been filed, to level the box screwed to a bench or board?


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## tshiker

Wow Kevin what a fantastic example of a rarely seen box! And so complete! I would be amazed if the info you seek isn't available. There are lots of KK fanatics around who, I would think, would be willing to help you out.

Tom.


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## theoldfart

Cleaned the saw somewhat.


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## Poa

Kevin….

Exactly how long is the toothline, and also the full plate, including whats in the handle? I want to compare it to Disston vs. Atkins. It looks to me, at first glance, to be Disston.


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## JethroBodean

CL…

I'm pretty sure that the 2 'trees' I have are one of each size. I'll try to check mine out tonight. I think POA mentioning the Leveler might be on the right track, maybe Stanley assumes that the back will always be raised slightly by the leveler. One of my trees came with a 2246 that was fairly clean and complete.


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## theoldfart

Jon, full plate is 28", 26" at the tooth line.

The naked truth!


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## tshiker

"The Naked Truth" was (is?) a local band that used to play the nightclub scene here on Long Island some 35 - 40 years ago and now I think they do wedding's. Thanks for the unintentional and unexpected trip down memory lane Kev!


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## JethroBodean

As far as I know the Clipped heel Mitre saws are one of the only hand saws where the tooth line length is not the saw size. The Disston catalogs used to say "The peculiar shape of butt or heel in these saws makes the toothed edge about 2 inches shorter than the full-length of the blade"


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## CL810

Thanks Poa and Jethro!! The leveling screws took care of the issue. Thankfully I had kept the leveling screws.










Now if I can just find a trip, MB86, I think my saw will be complete. A fellow can dream can't he.


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## theoldfart

Andy, it is my understanding that those things require a high personal cost, your first born! I do understand the need to be complete.

Disassembly has begun, the only things to deal with is a broken screw to be removed and a spring clip that needs to be fabricated.


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## BlasterStumps

I'm so glad I have an old mitre box, well several but anyway, I recently booted my power miter box out of my new workshop. It is a small Ryobi that my son left me when he moved. I tried several ways to try to collect the sawdust from it but to no real success. What a mess. I just gave up on it and put it in the garage. I'll be setting up one of the old-timey boxes for certain cross cutting when needed. The old mitre saw makes very little mess. : ).

I really like the looks of that Keen Kutter box.


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## theoldfart

Mike, I still keep my Rigid planer ready to go. Years ago I bought a Grizzly budget DC set up and it gets the job done. I do production work for the railroad museum and hand work is just not in the cards. Don't dump the machine, watch CL for a used DC.

I do have a few mitre boxes to cover whatever comes up.

One or two, hand work. 26 pieces, get the machine!


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## BlasterStumps

I'll hang onto the power miter box. It comes in handy a lot for construction type stuff. I can set it up outside the garage.

I'm in the middle of some work on our house but when that is finished, I am planning to build a workbench/assembly table for the new shop. I want to be able to use an old-timey mitre box on it when I want or use the track saw for the wider cuts. I can hook a vacuum to the track saw, there will be much less mess.


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## JethroBodean

For what it is worth, if I'm doning construction then it's usually power tools all the way. Anything else is hand tools.


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## JethroBodean

CL…
Ok this is what's come up with, and it pretty much aligns with what both you and Poa have said.

I have a #w2 tree that came with a 2246 and what I believe is a 3-4 that came with a 2358. However my 3-4 actually say "Pat 10-31-16" (Have you seen that before POA?). Anyway the #2 is on the left in the following two pictures.



















You can see that both the bottom and top holes are ever so slightly higher on the tree on the right.

The 2246 has been screwed down to a board but hopefully you can see that I cannot slide the #2 tree onto that board.
The 2358, like the images you showed has the Tree hole about an 1/8 higher than the rod.










And as POA showed the back leg is in the air when the tree is close to the box.


----------



## bandit571

Found while cleaning up the shop's floor…









Might just find a use for it…


----------



## Poa

Its a cut length stop for the No. 150 box, Bandit.


----------



## theoldfart

I was successful in finding some background on the KK mitre box. the design was patented by E M. Ayer in 1911. It was manufactured by H C Marsh company and called the Marsh-Ayer mitre box. It was sold by the Atkins saw company and included an Atkins Silver Steel saw. I'm guessing they altered the pattern to make the distinctive KK logo.


----------



## JethroBodean

Are you sure that's not for a later model 2xx, 3xx, 22xx or 23xx. Sometime in the late 50s early 60s (I think it was probably when they added the X to the end of the model number), Stanley switched to this same style of length stop, it was just quite a bit stouter than the one for the 150. Bandit, what's the length of that one? On my 150s the length stops are all about it's 7.5" long and roughly 1/16" thick.


----------



## bandit571

It did come attached to my No. 2246 box…until I lost it, for a while..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I thought it was a stop for the 150 as well, but then remembered that it has a little bit of a different shape to the slot.


----------



## HokieKen

IIRC, the early model 150s didn't have the enlarged hole at the end of the slot Smitty. You had to remove the screw to flip it around. I won't swear to it but it seems like I remember reading that when I was researching those boxes.


----------



## bandit571

My 2246 has a threaded hole through the fence. Takes a shouldered thumbscrew to install…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nothing a large-ish drill bit couldn't fix, Kenny.


----------



## HokieKen

Well I have to make the whole stop so that's the plan Smitty  I bought some steel for it months ago but still haven't gotten around to milling and bending it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Have you seen the 150 length stop mounted using the short end that is bent 90º to the rest of the piece? I am wondering if that short slot cut in it has a purpose.

When I made one of those length stops for the bigger mitre box, I used a generator/alternator mounting/tension adjusting strap. It already had the slot.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm….was looking around for the thumbscrew..turned out, it had been stowed away…









So I stowed the length stop with it..









Can be set up here..

There…









As there is a mounting hole down on this end ( threads needed cleaned out)...
And does have a bit of reach…









Mitre Box is complete….saw is a 4×26", with a Disston "Made expressly for Stanley" etch

Number is a #2246A….last I looked..


----------



## HokieKen

> Have you seen the 150 length stop mounted using the short end that is bent 90º to the rest of the piece? I am wondering if that short slot cut in it has a purpose.
> 
> When I made one of those length stops for the bigger mitre box, I used a generator/alternator mounting/tension adjusting strap. It already had the slot.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Maybe the slot in the short leg is so you can screw a wood block on? Just guessing, don't really have any idea.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

It's quite versatile; check pics below.


----------



## Mosquito

A pair of these showed up over the weekend, and I got one dialed in and cutting well. Used it to make all of the cuts for this log cutting stand. I may take it apart, cut a few inches off the bottom, and put the base back on, as I'm not sure it's quite low enough, but either way, was nice to go all hand cutting on this one 










(The second one didn't have such a long vertical fence as this one did)


















Ran out of time before I finished it, as I intend to add some horizontal braces up towards the upper 1/3, but it'll do for tonight lol


----------



## theoldfart

I need some help. I need four 1/4 24 slotted filister screws and a 5/16 20 nut. They are used on a Keen Kutter mitre box. Parts from a Marsh Ayer would work as well. I checked McMaster Carr and they don't carry them. Getting desperate. :-(


----------



## HokieKen

Those aren't common threads Kev but they are standardized. You positive about the sizes? If so, I can make you the screws. Not sure I can do the nut though, don't think I have any threading tools small enough.


----------



## HokieKen

Here is a 5/16-20 tap Kev. There are also dies for 1/4-24 readily available. Of course you still have to turn the blanks…


----------



## HokieKen

And a M6×1 thread is so close to 1/4-24 that it would probably work as-is. If you chased it with a 1/4-24 die, it would certainly work.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, I picked up a 1/4 24 bottoming tap to chase the threads. I'm guessing bit here, the previous owner forced 1/4 20 screws and bunged up three of the the screws. The fourth was broken off and I got it out with a reverse twist screw extractor, The threads on that one were 24. I'll post my progress later. Just got home from the railroad, we just finished a forty foot flat car with a wood bed. It took five rows of 6" spikes to nail the bed down. I'm tired!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin, have you checked out this THCKK group on Facebook regarding your KK box? They'd love pics, and there may be some expertise there as well.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/THCKK/?multi_permalinks=3041187215968351%2C3039017499518656&notif_id=1593401335418775&notif_t=group_activity&ref=notif


----------



## theoldfart

Still not on Face Book Smitty. Any way of joining without giving personal info?


----------



## Mosquito

I just attempted to join, I can be your proxy


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, did you mean you just joined FB or just joined the THCKK FB?

I ran the 1/4 24 tap, worked like a charm. Had a friend insist that 12 24 would work. NOPE!

This may take a while.

On a better note the Goodell Greenfield is brazed and back together. I just finished drilling and plugging the original wooden deck and got it back on the box. I do need to clean up a saw for it.










It even has the small tab for using non-back saws.


----------



## Mosquito

just that group


----------



## theoldfart

Well, if anyone has four screws from the leg castings of a donor box I'd be interested.


----------



## theoldfart

Both the Keen Kutter and the Goodell Mfg Greenfield mitre boxes are mechanically complete. Still have some saw work to do.










They have been waxed but I do not intend to paint. Both are almost 100% original except for a few screws and a couple of springs.

The "I am not a collector" collection seems to be growing. Now thinking about a Marsh Improved Langdon!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Those are nice tof, I like! Good job getting them back together.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Mike.


----------



## Poa

The Greenfields are pretty cool, eh? Just different enough to be intriquing. I see that a Langdon No. 15 1/2 just sold on ebay for around 320, shipped. No saw. Looked to be in pretty good shape, complete. Other boxes on ebay? Don't seem to be moving very well at prices that make the effort of selling there worthwhile. Also, I see someone is consistently dismantling boxes now, and attempting to part them out. Some hard to find parts offered, but steep. 170 some odd bucks is certainly more than I would expect to get for a Stanley tree, rods, and coupler. Put it on my watchlist, curious if he gets it. I have been accused of being high priced on parts, but I'm certainly cheaper than that guy. My pricing considers Murphy's law. That is, if you sell a hard to find part, it means you will soon run into a reasonably priced box that only needs that part to be complete. So anyway, Kevin, congrats on the recent acquisitions. And I envy you the railroad gig. Sounds like a lot of fun.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, a couple of questions. Are there any colors on your Greenfields and do the posts have springs between the two halves?


----------



## Poa

I'll have a look tomorrow, Kevin. Can't recall about the springs. Color was green originally. Traces were left.


----------



## theoldfart

Green, huh. Means mine had a user do-over in silver on the posts and backrest.


----------



## HokieKen

Teaser for Kev. The rest of you can ignore ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

SahWeet!

PM'd you.

Tanks


----------



## HokieKen

Final teaser Kev! I'll send em out Monday.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good Kenny.


----------



## MPython

If anyone has a spare depth gauge, knurled attachment screw and the curved washer for a Langdon 74C you could part with for a fair price, shoot me a message. I would appreciate it. 
Thanks.


----------



## DLK

I have an entire extra complete 74C I could part with.

The parts are hard to find, I finally had to have the parts I needed made for my first box, which I use all the time!

You can easily make the depth gauge. You can order a substitute knurled knob, because MF used standard threads, it won't look the same, but it will work for you. Even a hex bolt would work. The curved washer is the hard to make
with simple tools or find a substitute.


----------



## MPython

> I have an entire extra complete 74C I could part with.
> 
> The parts are hard to find, I finally had to have the parts I needed made for my first box, which I use all the time!
> 
> You can easily make the depth gauge. You can order a substitute knurled knob, because MF used standard threads, it won t look the same, but it will work for you. Even a hex bolt would work. The curved washer is the hard to make
> with simple tools or find a substitute.
> - Combo Prof


Thanks, Prof. I think I can make all of the components, but I'd rather use the real thing if I can find it. The miter box is for my daughter. She's an artist and I'm building her a framing cart with everything she needs to frame her work. The Langdon miter box was the last acquisition, so I can start building as soon as I get it rehabbed.


----------



## Poa

MPython…

If all she will be doing is picture framing, you can't beat the Stanley No. 100s. Takes up less room, too.


----------



## HokieKen

POA makes a good point Mpython. My 74 is an awesome tool and gets used often. But it's big and doesn't have any real fine adjustment if any of the angles are off. If it's gonna be used for picture framing, you'll probably need a shooting board to go with it.


----------



## DLK

Angles on my 74c are perfect. But a shooting board will fix any angles that might be off.


----------



## MPython

> POA makes a good point Mpython. My 74 is an awesome tool and gets used often. But it's big and doesn't have any real fine adjustment if any of the angles are off. If it's gonna be used for picture framing, you'll probably need a shooting board to go with it.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, all for the suggestions. I considered a Stanley 100 and I may still go that route. The art department at the college where she teaches has a miter saw and she likes using it. I thought I'd get her started with one to see how she likes it. I found an almost totally mint Lion miter trimmer that is dead on at 45 degrees for her fine adjustments. If she doesn't like the Langdon, I'll be happy to reclaim it. Except for the missing depth guide, it too is almost mint. Found it for $75.00 on Craigslist last week (unapologetic drive-by gloat). ;>)


----------



## Poa

MPython…

If you have pics of the depth guide you do have, and measurements, I might have one. Have a bunch I haven't identified yet.


----------



## JethroBodean

Ok, change of subject. I just saw another EBAY chuckle. It is a listing for "Very Nice Complete Stanley cast iron Miter Box with Saw excellent condition". You be the judge.

I'm sure that saw is original to that Stanley Box! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Of course it's original, just sharpened a lot.


----------



## HokieKen

> MPython…
> 
> If you have pics of the depth guide you do have, and measurements, I might have one. Have a bunch I haven t identified yet.
> 
> - Poa


I snagged these pics with details from the Langdon Mitre Box Page back when I was overhauling my box Jon. I have the stock to make myself a pair of them but haven't ever gotten around to it. If you have spares, I'd be interested in a couple. MPython gets first shot of course.


----------



## Poa

Never mind, guys. The paired stops I have end up being for 6" Goodell Pratt boxes. I do have one front stop, that is 4-1/8" long.


----------



## MPython

> MPython…
> 
> If you have pics of the depth guide you do have, and measurements, I might have one. Have a bunch I haven t identified yet.
> 
> - Poa


Poa, thank you! I've sent photos and details in a message to you. Check your private messages.

OOPS! Apparently I can't send photos by PM. They are in the following post. I have sent other relevant info via PM, so please check your messages. Thanks again!


----------



## MPython

Poa, thank you for your generous offer to look through your stock for me. Here are photos of the pieces I need. The gauge itself is 5 1/4" long and 3/4" wide. I think the photos have all the other details. Check your private messages for additional information. Thanks again!


----------



## MPython

> Never mind, guys. The paired stops I have end up being for 6" Goodell Pratt boxes. I do have one front stop, that is 4-1/8" long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Poa


OK. Thanks for looking! I Appreciate it.


----------



## Poa

MPython…..

I do have the washer. When I get home I will check to see if I have the knurled cap screw.


----------



## Poa

MPython…..

I do have the washer. When I get home I will check to see if I have the knurled cap screw.


----------



## MPython

Poa, thanks! I'll taker the washer if you can part with it. I sent you my address and payment information in a PM. I'll Also take the knurled cap screw if you have one to spare. Again, I appreciate it.


----------



## Poa

MPython…..

Heres what I have. Pretty sure the washer is right, what about the knurled screws?


----------



## MPython

Poa, the washer and the shorter of the two knurled screws look like a match. I'll take them both if you can part with them. M shipping and payment information is in my PM to you. Thanks! That will be a big help.


----------



## controlfreak

Asking for some opinions here. I have been lurking a bit and watching some ebay miter boxes that are asking too much and the shipping can be just as bad so I started looking at craigslist and this popped up.

https://hickory.craigslist.org/tls/d/hickory-two-old-school-miter-boxes/7148253731.html

Does anyone think this may be something to look at? I am looking for a quality user but may want to shine it up a bit for fun too.


----------



## HokieKen

controlfreak - that Craftsman box looks a bit too modern to me. I don't know anything about it personally, it may be a fine box, it's just not one I would consider "vintage". Consequently, I assume (perhaps unfairly) that it's of lesser quality. That Langdon 74C is a fine box though. It looks complete and may even have the original saw that came with it. If I were looking for a user and found that locally for $75, I'd more than likely bring it home. Some kind fella even managed to put the name badge on upside-down for you so you can identify it if it ever gets in a crowd of other Langdon boxes.


----------



## Poa

Ken….

The MF looks to be missing the depth stops, the concave washers, and one of the knurled cap screws. The box is still usable, but incomplete.


----------



## MPython

> Asking for some opinions here. I have been lurking a bit and watching some ebay miter boxes that are asking too much and the shipping can be just as bad so I started looking at craigslist and this popped up.
> 
> https://hickory.craigslist.org/tls/d/hickory-two-old-school-miter-boxes/7148253731.html
> 
> Does anyone think this may be something to look at? I am looking for a quality user but may want to shine it up a bit for fun too.
> 
> - controlfreak


Control Freak, I bought the Millers Falls Langdon miter box last week. Sorry to burst your bubble.


----------



## HokieKen

Ha! That's funny you guys both came to this thread about the same CL box  And yep, didn't notice the back depth stop was missing Jon and I forgot about the rods that go with the length stops.

MPython - did you flip that nameplate over? If so, could you take a picture and post it? Cause that is seriously agitating my OCD.


----------



## controlfreak

> Asking for some opinions here. I have been lurking a bit and watching some ebay miter boxes that are asking too much and the shipping can be just as bad so I started looking at craigslist and this popped up.
> 
> https://hickory.craigslist.org/tls/d/hickory-two-old-school-miter-boxes/7148253731.html
> 
> Does anyone think this may be something to look at? I am looking for a quality user but may want to shine it up a bit for fun too.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> Control Freak, I bought the Millers Falls Langdon miter box last week. Sorry to burst your bubble.
> 
> - MPython


At least you didn't reply that it was worth buying without telling me the rest of the story. I will keep on the prowl to find one. Glad someone here snagged it.


----------



## Poa

Looking locally is definitely the best bet. Shipping can run as high as 80 bucks, if going across the continent. And that doesn't include materials and time to package one for safe travel, which is a real pain in the ass. Still, its extremely rare to find one in the wild that is 100% complete. And if missing some hard to find parts, it can be expensive to complete one, if you even can. Thats where ebay boxes come to light. At least on ebay, you can usually discern whether or not a box is complete. And they do turn up, complete, on ebay quite often. Although, some boxes not so often. The Goodell Pratt All Steel boxes very rarely show up with all their pieces. And even the "complete" Stanleys very rarely include the saw spine trip clamp. Honestly, despite the high prices I get for my restored boxes, I still think its the best way to go for someone that is looking for a user, and wants to be sure about what they are buying. But over the last year I really haven't been doing much in the way of marketing. Shipping them is just such a hassle, and really, even at seemingly high prices, I make chicken feed on them after considering my initial purchase of the box, and the time spent in doing a thorough and well crafted restoration. If I didn't enjoy the restoration process, it wouldn't be worth my while. Its too bad money has to enter into consideration, but its the way of the world.


----------



## HokieKen

Ain't that the truth Jon!


----------



## DLK

> Ken….
> 
> The MF looks to be missing the depth stops, the concave washers, and one of the knurled cap screws. The box is still usable, but incomplete.
> 
> - Poa


I think it is only missing one each.


----------



## MPython

> MPython - did you flip that nameplate over? If so, could you take a picture and post it? Cause that is seriously agitating my OCD.
> 
> - HokieKen


Ken, I have't yet started the rehab on the miter box. I've been working on the saw. I plan to flip the nameplate; it's messing with my OCD too. I'm not sure how to remove it without doing some damage. It appears to be attached with rivets or screws that have been peened over. It has obviously been messed with in he past because it's in poor shape, unlike the rest of the box which looks to be in very good condition. I'll post a photo when I finish with the box.


----------



## controlfreak

Talk about OCD, there is one that has been on ebay the last few days and the saw is inserted in the box backwards. It bugs the hell out of me.


----------



## Poa

Don't get too attentive when looking at ebay boxes. Particularly the Stanleys. Guide post assemblies switched from front to rear. Saw hangers pointing in the wrong direction. Springs placed on the wrong guide rods. Its not a thing someone with OCD really wants to engage in. Save the obsessive proclivities for restoring your own box, or you will go bat******************** crazy. Trust me, I know I know I know I know I know….

What?


----------



## theoldfart

^ +1 what he said

Also watch for cracks and brazing hidden under the dust and dirt.


----------



## controlfreak

Looks like estate sales will be my best bet.


----------



## theoldfart

CFreak, watch Craigs List regularly. I've scored more than a few excellent boxes that way.


----------



## theoldfart

Speaking of Craigs list finds, this one was $75 with a 28"x6"saw.

Also Fishntechnishn (Mike) asked about one of my Langdons.

This is a Langdon Improved circa 1900 or so.



















My setup is a 15.
This is from a 1901 price list for Langdon










Mike I have pics of the underside if your interested. Also Langdons are bit confusing in this time period.
They have:

Langdon
New Langdon
New Langdon Improved 
Langdon Improved

The Improved versions have the curved stock guides, missing on mine.


----------



## HokieKen

I was all excited when this box sat at $47 for 5 days. I was hoping the poor job the seller did with finding the model number or at least putting "Langdon" in the title would let it slide by most people's radar unnoticed. But at least one other person found it and is willing to pay more than I for it. Best I can tell it's a 16-1/2 missing the front depth stop. Looks like everything else is there including the original saw and shipping crate.


----------



## Poa

Ouch, Ken. You had to mention it, eh? That box will probably max out over 300. Maybe, because of the crate, well over 300. I intend to throw a bid at it, because of the crate. But only because I have a couple of 16 1/2s, and can sell one to stay kinda even. Plus, I do have the missing stop in my parts inventory.

EDIT. The boxes were never supplied with an open handled saw. That saw appears to be shorter than 16", and with its open handle, would not be original to the box. But a nice little open handled Disston is still a good score, even if not used with the box. I do have an extra 2" x 16" Disston, so I can complete this box if I am lucky enough to land it. I shouldn't be buying right now, but that crate is pretty damned tempting.


----------



## theoldfart

Cat's out of the bag now!

A nice New Langdon Improved just went for twenty bucks plus shipping. Somebody got a deal. It was all original with the curved guides, and correct thumb screws and a decent saw.


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Jon! Didn't mean to tell your secret. I knew you and Kev already had one and since y'all aren't collectors, I didn't think you would want a second ;-)

For some reason I thought I read those boxes came with 12" saws. So nevermind that part… The crate is super cool though for sure.


----------



## HokieKen

It went just a bit higher than the $80 I was hoping to get it for ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

I expected a higher price.


----------



## Poa

I sniped at it at seven seconds, was the highest bidder for two seconds. Was out sniped by the winning bidder.


----------



## theoldfart

Good try anyway Jon.


----------



## Poa

Yeah, Kevin. I was a bit disappointed, because the odds of running across another crate are slim indeed. The low amount of bidders, and winning price kinda suprised me too. I couldn't afford to snipe it at the price I figured it would go for, so was a bit suprised at the two seconds I was the highest bidder. I really figured it would go somewhere close to but north of 400 bucks. Weird auction. I was bidding while a chemo brew was being fed into my right arm, with a nurse fiddling with the works, and saying "Hey, what are you bidding on?" When I told her "an antique mitre box" a guy in another chemo chair asked me "porter cable or Makita?" Gads, I really am getting old.


----------



## theoldfart

The younger ones think any power tool without a battery is an antique!

I'm back on the hunt, something just showed up that interests me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Best wishes for full and quick recovery, Jon


----------



## Poa

Thanks Smitty. It is what it is. One foot in front of the other.


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry it slipped by ya Jon. I often try to do really broad searches to uncover listings like that where the seller doesn't know exactly what they have or how to list it. If it had been listed as "Langdon 16 1/2 miter box with original shipping crate" I imagine there would have been a lot more bids and a higher selling price. I did a search for "tool steel" once and stumbled on a listing and got two starrett spring calipers and a Brown and Sharpe tool maker's square for $12 along with several HSS blanks. It was listed as "tools and steel pieces".

I hope the chemo isn't taking too much of a toll man. Sending you some good vibes!


----------



## fishntechnishn

Hey theoldfart
Thanks for the photos of the Langdon. Mine must be the earlier version as it does not have any lettering on the back fence casting but is supposed to have the same curved stock guides but of course they too are missing. Got to get this photo posting thing down right !!
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, they are the same vintage!


----------



## theoldfart

I just won a New Improved Langdon and saw. It's complete as far as I can tell. Now if they can just ship it without damage that would be just ducky!

Mike, it's the same as yours!

Still hoping you can post pics of that All Steel.

eBay pics


----------



## CL810

But Kevin it looks like it's only for backwards cuts!


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, you gotta stand behind it to use it.


----------



## HokieKen

That's one of those western Japanese boxes ;-)


----------



## JethroBodean

Kev - You're gonna have a hell of a time finding a Japanese pull backsaw to go with that one. (BTW nice find)


----------



## theoldfart

The steep angle guides are reversed as well.

Ken, everybody knows that 

Jeff, I'm sure I can find one on the interwebz


----------



## controlfreak

You got my backwards saw! I never bid on it because I am still waiting on a plane. If something that big shows up I'll be sleeping in the shop, hmmmm.


----------



## theoldfart

Freak, you missed a good one. But you still have the plane coming.

This auction was a little weird. I missed the end and it went for the minimum bid. An hour later it's back up for the same price with a best offer option. Offered ten dollars over the opening price and it was accepted.


----------



## controlfreak

I don't know if this is anything worth fooling with but it is getting very little interest and with a low er offer and free shipping I am wondering if I can make something out of it. "https://www.ebay.com/itm/Goodell-Pratt-1285b-Miter-Box/223758815049?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3419108f49:g:bzkAAOSwdOxd1Sp~:sc:FedExHomeDelivery







US







29306







-1&enc=AQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278×5ickkgCVySCgrNFPU8Iu85TabMEQONe4ScD1FaVZ08pHheS1eM75NFLkB0AFk9KsUHV%2BYfWDCYFy4ocVNYeZIhVvkYucCLvSHWW4zyQ%2BoNZ%2Fe1cqT2EHXL4Lg9zWmPa%2BFvEE1qPxTs6RTUnjKN2DD4plMj1axn%2FQEn3dNnwFeNAQ6rr96wuEaqagW0JLni3p1gw4t7zc6y56mJj6qOEeT%2BAC8DelLCfFIl0ZCn2tEIOfUrR%2BGZy%2FiQ0vTeeXSmSIQ9%2Fzvmdl5VwpoHsPUraSMISVrC04RO5coc8XxGJ%2Fa7Fvni0iJxSJAiar4xXQoRb4mfsOvLuWVzByuxkO0HGaVMGfYTT1kX%2BTpndHgYy8NCgnGsAFVMRfHaVGmff3k%2FC2wf0RRAQH5GFxsKiVERqrPhO3OO1QLQiPaI4T0LLwJe0fJPxWuRMzS1d4eHncQz5vHI2joOBEIuUk5R6o193vip1%2FoJBb2yCn2Nqk5X3sBfoSD%2BPgu3k0xqDo7gG44rFJ4sW34DGtVGIEOCehgu%2BNwjf%2FFeVzAuP%2BM3uhgH5pvf3jprUCy9fiWJZFfn2PmssBT3DTyTdg4kwTNrJgI3t%2Br0A3gKFsC9BHlBxt5pEEXKYYiNBgCOpBB5neRk0TY5QzlhNt%2FqwxsAwts4SvgFLii0m904K1H%2B73dgc8iZUbtN0Lyuuti%2BjW420QJFU%2Bqve4jZsoZWDDLsBSFy08srvL2Md6GCbOa3AXjtwb0W2PoE3UBwugY8Ml3xWzjkPYIZ0sW1IAh&checksum=2237588150497d2813751cf84c77831866591d48e59b Any thoughts from you experts for a user?


----------



## HokieKen

I dunno controlfreak. I don't have any hands-on with GP boxes but as a general rule, I'm leery of stamped steel parts like that fence where you want precision. Even if that's not an issue, I think you can do a whole lot better than that box for $125 with a little patience.


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## theoldfart

Missing a bit of stuff Freak. I'd continue to look.

If you do go for it do a big time low ball.

Elevator guides are missing, coping and repeat length stops are both gone and the saw hold-up looks funky on the back post and looks missing on the front.


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## theoldfart

CFreak, this has more potential at a much cheaper price. Someone tried to take it apart and couldn't get the gib arm back together.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Goodell-pat-1904-Adjustable-Mitre-Box/184135842427?hash=item2adf59fa7b:g:MKMAAOSwlPleJNMQ

The coping stop and repeat length stop are missing but the rest is all present.

Kenny, all the GP's have that fence. It is solid and unlike cast frames you could shim it if needed. I have two All Steels and no issues with either one.


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## fishntechnishn

hopefully this works. Will try AGAIN to post photos of my Langdon Improved New Mitre Box with Disston saw(Phila) If this one finally works I will try some more.Mike









Mike


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## fishntechnishn

WOW it worked finally. Here are some more. I have never seen one quite like this. Anyone else have or seen one??
Mike


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## controlfreak

Thanks guys! As I went deeper into ebay I found some others that I am watching. I just need to be patient and observe the prices to find out what the baseline is.

Kevin, Do you like the Goodell miter boxes?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mike, that saw handle is beautiful, and the saw plate is clean too. How's it cut?


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## theoldfart

Mike, that is a nice Langdon. Was it that clean when you got it?

Yes I do like the Goodell mitre boxes. I have two of the All Steels and a Greenfield.


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## bandit571

And…I have a G-P 28×5 saw that needs a box to call home…..anyone need the saw? Handle was repaired, though.


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## theoldfart

I'm sure someone could use it Bandit.


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## controlfreak

I like that box too bandit but taking another look at the saw.

Saw looks to be in good shape, to an untrained eye.


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## bandit571

Goodell Pratt Company, TOOLSMITH, Made in USA…









Has a notch on the toe…








And the repair on the handle…









Was missing a chunk, repair replaced the missing part..









Has a very NICE etch, was made by Disston expressly for the Goodell Pratt Company
Just under 5" under the spine, total length of saw plate is 28", teeth length is 26".









What I started with….









And, after I had cleaned the saw plate..









What I came home with…


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## fishntechnishn

> Mike, that saw handle is beautiful, and the saw plate is clean too. How's it cut?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


 Smitty it needs to be sharpened. Just need the time to do it
Mike


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## fishntechnishn

> Mike, that is a nice Langdon. Was it that clean when you got it?
> 
> Yes I do like the Goodell mitre boxes. I have two of the All Steels and a Greenfield.
> 
> - theoldfart


 It was fairly clean. Just had to clean years of dust and grime. No rust to speak of
Mike


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## controlfreak

> CFreak, this has more potential at a much cheaper price. Someone tried to take it apart and couldn t get the gib arm back together.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Goodell-pat-1904-Adjustable-Mitre-Box/184135842427?hash=item2adf59fa7b:g:MKMAAOSwlPleJNMQ
> 
> The coping stop and repeat length stop are missing but the rest is all present.
> 
> Kenny, all the GP s have that fence. It is solid and unlike cast frames you could shim it if needed. I have two All Steels and no issues with either one.
> 
> - theoldfart


Thank you. After thinking about it I made an offer.


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## Poa

I see a problem here, regarding ebay, that I do not see getting discussed much.

There is simply NO WAY you can ship a mitre box for 14 bucks. Can't happen, won't happen. Even if you throw it in a gunny sack.

So, you have a seller, who gets say, 45 bucks for his mitre box, shipped. Who then discovers it will cost 65 bucks, to ship it. Its really not the guy's fault. He has never dealt with, or sold, a mitre box before. And if he has made one mistake consulting the ebay shipping protocol, odds are, he has recieved erroneous shipping pricing.

So how does the sale proceed now? Do you think this poor bastard is going to cheerfully package your mitre box for safe shipping, and grin at the prospect of losing 15 bucks selling an item that has eaten a considerable amount of his time in listing and shipping? Plus, what did he pay for the box initially?

C'mon, guys. Are we really the group of "tough ********************, he shoulda known better"?

I hope not.


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## theoldfart

If I could just get the seller of my current purchase to respond to my emails I would do just that. Three messages and no response. He hasn't even accepted my PayPal pmnt i made on Thursday. Something squirrely is going on.


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## Poa

Yeah Kevin. Sounds like the guy is shirking. Ebay sucks in so many ways. I once had a problem with a purchase, that seemed like a no brainer solution was possible. Didn't happen. Until the kids parents stepped in and resolved it. Ends up I was dealing with an eight year old, whose parents were "letting him get some life experience". You just never know who is on the other end of an auction.


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## bandit571

Trying to figure shipping on a 5×28 mitre saw…..I intend to remove the handle, and wrap it and the bolts separately in the box.

Not sure IF there is a flat rate box for a 3" x 7"(padding included) x 28" size….or maybe do a UPS box? Not used to shipping saws…


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## Poa

I have shipped a quite few mitre box saws. Both with handles removed, and, not. I prefer to remove the handle, and wrap it securely onto the saw plate with the clear plastic wrapping stuff. Handles break fairly easily in shipping if they aren't well protected. Haven't found an over the counter box that is useful without alot of modification. Pretty much gotta dig out the box cutter and tape, and invent as you go along.


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## controlfreak

I know UPS calculates by HxWxD and weight. I can remember that they used to give you a beaded chain to record the cumulative distance and if the little marker was exceeded it needed special added freight. Computers did away with that. Anyone who thinks a heavy bulky box can be shipped for $14 hasn't shipped anything before. If ebays calculator is not right that's a whole different story. But hey you can still have a conversation about what to do about it.


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## MPython

Last week Control Freak and I were posting about the same Langdon 74C that showed up on Craigslist. I bought it and rehabbed it. Here are the beauty shots:

Before:










Today:





































I'm still missing the rear depth gauge and the attachment hardware (knurled screw and washer) and the end stop gauge bars, but otherwise the box is complete and in good shape. It works very smoothly and the initial test cuts are dead-on accurate. The saw needs sharpening badly. I'm a poor saw sharpener, but I'll give it a try. My daughter will use it to frame her artwork. She's very happy with it.

I have one question for you guys who recondition these things. When I reassembled the box after derusting, painting, etc, the manual lock (the big wing nut looking contraption under the arc) doesn't lock. I've looked very carefully at the diagram in the manual to make sure I have it assembled correctly, but it's hard to decipher. Anybody got any suggestions about how to fix this?

Thanks all.

Python.


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## HokieKen

Box looks great Python  My Langdon 74 is an older model and doesn't have the same locking mechanics so I can't help on that one.


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## MPython

> Box looks great Python  My Langdon 74 is an older model and doesn t have the same locking mechanics so I can t help on that one.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, Ken. I'm not sure the newer model is an improvement, at least not as far as the locking mechanism is concerned. ;>)


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## HokieKen

No, I don't think it is. The pivot arm mechanism on the older Langdon's is actually one of my favorite features


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## controlfreak

Looks Great MPython. I have a box on the way but postal has been running slow these days. Not real sure how much rehab it is even going to need. I have bought a complete set of files and a vise to sharpen but haven't finished a entire saw yet. Bought a jewelers loop thing but man are those teeth small on a 12 PPI saw. I was guessing it was cross cut filed but even that I am not so sure about. I started cross cut so I will stick with it. It is a tenon saw and not for the box. I am pretty sure I won't be filing my miter saw as a rip saw. ;-)


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## Poa

Python…. I am sorry I haven't shipped your knurled screw and washer yet. I have been distracted by my medical issues. I will try to get them in the mail this week. Kevin, same goes for your parts as well.


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## MPython

> Python…. I am sorry I haven t shipped your knurled screw and washer yet. I have been distracted by my medical issues. I will try to get them in the mail this week. Kevin, same goes for your parts as well.
> 
> - Poa


Thanks, Jon (it's Jon, isn't it?). If you can still spare them, anytime will be OK with me. I appreciate your help. Hope your medical issues will resolve themselves quickly.


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## theoldfart

Jon, deal with the important stuff first, toys can come later.

Python, usually the lock bolt pulls against the gib. See if you can somehow adjust the screw that pulls on the gib. Just a guess.


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## controlfreak

Not sure what I have here but it is what it is. everything is fairly frozen and I have a bracket swinging that may have a broken end on it. Left of the center arm is a spring that was rolling around the packing box so who knows. Nether saw guide piston moves so I am looking for any guidance I can get.

Thanks in advance!


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## Poa

Control freak. You forgot a picture.


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## MPython

> Not sure what I have here but it is what it is. everything is fairly frozen and I have a bracket swinging that may have a broken end on it. Left of the center arm is a spring that was rolling around the packing box so who knows. Nether saw guide piston moves so I am looking for any guidance I can get.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> - controlfreak


controlfreak, you may already have this, but I found it helpful. As usual I didn't take ant photos before I disassembled my miter box. When I got around to reassembling it, the parts diagram at the end of the manual (see link) helped. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. The only spring on the box is associated with the locking arm assembly.
http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/pdf/MFLA_MiterBox.pdf


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## controlfreak

I always seem to forget the picture. I can't tell how how many times I send blueprints to the printer only to receive a "you forgot to attach plans".

Anyway here you go









That arm that is extending to the left has a notch in it that I fear is supposed be a closed slot be the end may have sheared off. The little spring is on the table next to it. I need to try and determine a year and get some diagrams. I didn't have any time last night but will get some more tonight and see where it takes me.


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## controlfreak

Okay, I have found this
https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/gallery/goodell/#jp-carousel-543

The front post is floppy and I can now see how the two brackets should align and secure that but I don't recall that any parts of the adjustment locking lever were present. I think that this lever is for the major set stops on the large V grooves. Hopefully I have something I can work with here.


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## Poa

The GP All Steel swing arm locking mechanism can be one of the trickiest to rehab. Its not so much the indent settings, its the locking between settings that is so tedious. I didn't get it figured out until I was doing my third swingarm. Requires some very careful shimming. Tomorrow, I will shoot you a couple of pics., so maybe we can determine what parts you are missing. We need to see a pic of your swingarm from underneath.


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## MPython

> The GP All Steel swing arm locking mechanism can be one of the trickiest to rehab. Its not so much the indent settings, its the locking between settings that is so tedious. I didn t get it figured out until I was doing my third swingarm. Requires some very careful shimming. Tomorrow, I will shoot you a couple of pics., so maybe we can determine what parts you are missing. We need to see a pic of your swingarm from underneath.
> 
> - Poa


Thanks, Jon! I'll post a photo right away. I should have taken photos before I disassembled it, but I didn't think to do that. I have no hope that I have it assembled correctly. It was just a guess and several tries to come up with something that works. Nothing did.


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## controlfreak

Thank you. I did some research this morning at 5 am and have a much better idea of what I am looking for at least. I hope to get some of the underside this evening. I have a feeling that that spring resides somewhere in that vicinity. Anybody know what color the finish would have been new?


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## HokieKen

From what I've seen of the GP boxes controlfreak, I think you have the original color. I'm not sure they were painted at all. Probably some kind of black oxide treatment for rust prevention. Never seen one in person, only online so take it for what it's worth.

I can't tell for sure from your picture but the small spring is probably the return spring for the locking lever. It would go between the arm and the lever at the end where you squeeze to unlock it.


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## controlfreak

Thanks Kenny, down the miter box rabbit hole I go.


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## Poa




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## HokieKen

Ignore my previous post. The color was green and the spring goes about midway on the lever ;-)


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## theoldfart

The part is not broken.










Blow the pic up, you'll see where the spring goes as well as the two bars.

Both my All Steels are mounted to boards so it's hard to see. If your still having problems I'll take one apart and post some pics.


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## theoldfart

POA's pics are better!


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## Poa

Some were green. Some were black. The green one pictured, above, is a bit too forest. The actual green was not as vibrant, had more black in the tint.


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## JethroBodean

CF - So I just happen to have a few shots I took while working on my first GP. Maybe they'll give you some answers.


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## Poa

The later All Steels, that eliminated the pull rod style lock for between indent settings, are probably easier to adjust than the ones with the pull rods. With the pull rods, you simply have too much friction at all the contact points, making the locking tension adjustment far too tedious to get right. But I find it awkward to reach under the box to lock the arm between indents. So after I figured out how to adjust the pull rod style, through shimming, its my preferable type.

But again, as I have said many times here, you simply cannot beat the Stanley boxes for the ease and range of adjustability, if you are talking the double rod guide post boxes. The fixed post Stanleys, like the no. 2358s have a good adjustment range too, unless the swingarm is at all tweaked or worn. In that case, throw the swingarm away, its useless. I have found two boxes like that, with tweaked swingarms.


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## controlfreak

Wow such Great pictures. I am relieved that the notch at the end of that bar is normal and that possibly that the pull rod was not a part of this model. I can't wait to get another look at what is going on under the hood.


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## Mosquito

On one of the small Millers Falls miter boxes (I think mine's a 15-1/2), what is the saw plate thickness, anyone know, or have suggestions? I was thinking about leaning towards a .032" saw plate, same as a panel saw, as all the miterboxes I have are thicker plates, but wasn't quite sure if that would make sense with the smaller box.

I don't think I want to wait around and try to buy a saw for my box, as it will likely be cheaper for me to make one instead


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## HokieKen

You could just sell me that box Mos 

I dunno what the plate is but Kev and Jon have boxes with saws I believe so one of them should be able to help you out.


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## Mosquito

That's what I was hoping too, by asking Kenny :-D

This one I'm not going to sell anytime soon, it'll be in my tool chest


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## Poa

I don't have a micrometer, so can't help you out. I do suspect that all the major manufacturers all designed their guides for the same plate thickness. I did have a guy tell me, once, that the Marsh picture frame fixtures, like the Stanley No. 100s, took a thinner saw plate. I have never verified that assertion.

Yet one more reason to be biased towards the Stanleys. The double rod style guide posts can be adusted for saw plate thickness.


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## HokieKen

Jon makes a good point I hadn't thought about Mos. I would measure the slot in the saw guides on your box and choose the saw plate accordingly. Obviously you don't want it so tight that it binds but you also wouldn't want it floating around sloppy in there.

Do you just buy spring steel to make your saw plates or do you buy plates from a maker that are already cut to size and ground?


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## Mosquito

That's what my fallback was going to be, just wasn't sure if anyone knew off hand. I'll just test some of the plates I have around, and go from there.

Kenny, I've done both. I've used a kit for the dovetail saw in our LJ saw swap (2014), where I just had to put the back in the spline, as the plate was already to size










The small panel saw that is the counter part to a crosscut that I'm working on now, was just a rectangular plate with teeth stamped. I had to cut and file the plate to shape myself










And the most recent cross cut panel saw mentioned was just from a raw piece of spring steel.
For the saw I hope to make for my MF miterbox, I hope to buy a saw back, and then make the plate from raw stock


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## Poa

I have had mitre box saws, with Stanley etches, from Disston, Atkins, Bishop, and Simonds. All of them fit the guides on GPs, MFs, and Langdons, as well as the fixed post Stanleys like the no. 2358s. Seeing as how "mitre box saws", with their clipped heels, were designated separate than "back saws" in the Disston catalogues, it reasonable to assume that both the mitre box manufacturers, and the mitre box saw manufacturers, reached an agreement about plate thickness. Back saws, serving different needs, dovetailing, tenoning, etc., would not have plates that have a universal thickness, of course. Although, I am curious if the Disston no. 4 backsaws, considering the myriad of sizes offered, all had a universal thickness.


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## RWE

POA:

I did have a *guy tell me*, once, that the Marsh picture frame fixtures, like the Stanley No. 100s, took a thinner saw plate. I have never verified that assertion.

I am that guy. It is a fact. I think my research, several years back, told me that there were optional saw guides for the Marsh that took the thinner plate. By happenstance an Ebay seller listed what he called a Marsh saw and I emailed him to verify the thinner thickness. When he verified, I bought it.

I just went to the shop and measured. It is 1/32 thick. My two saws for the Stanley 358 are 3/64. My bench back saws (Distons) are also 1/32. (Side note: I once reported this thickness in tenths, and Summerfi called me out and stated that it was the better practice to use English fractions for saw plates)

The guides I have on my Marsh would not accept the 3/64 thickness. The Ebay saw is an Atkins with a faint Marsh Logo on it. Nice saw.

Pictures: Excuse the mess, painting a Swing set panel on my table saw.









Little Disstons and Marsh Atkins, same plate thickness.


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## Poa

RWE….

I suspected it was you. Just couldn't remember. I didn't doubt you. I just don't like to post data or information coming from just one source.

I have a Marsh, and a Marsh/Stanley. They both take the standard size plate. But a thinner plate makes sense for a picture frame fixture, because back in the day you would be cutting prefinished stock, some of which would have specialized finishes, such as gesso based, or gold leaf, that is tedious to cut due to being extremely prone to chipping and flaking.


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## HokieKen

I would have to wonder if the smaller boxes like the 15 1/2 Mos is begging me to buy from him had saws with the thinner plate. That's based purely on speculation on my part so don't quote me. I suspect Kev will still come along and relieve our curiosity.

RWE, did you happen to measure the slots in the narrower saw guides? I'm curious what typical clearances are for the saw plate. That's one of the draws of the Stanley 150 box for me, it's adjustable to take up any slop.


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## RWE

Ken: I will measure them and get back to you. I suffer from small shop syndrome and I only keep my 358 out and available. I will find the Marsh and get back to you.

POA: I think you were the one that mentioned the Ebay Marsh saw to me. We were doing the 358 deal at that time as I recall. Still use the 358 quite a bit.


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## HokieKen

No worries RWE. It's strictly curiosity


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## Poa

Kenny….

Someone has to beg you to buy a Langdon no. 15 1/2? Gads man, usually the begging is to convince the guy that owns it to sell it.


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## HokieKen

LOL, that was what I call wishful sarcasm Jon ;-) Mos' said he has no interest in selling it to me. Even if he did, he'd probably want more than I want to part with….

Although… I do have a couple of irons for a 46 plane he loaned me. I could hold them hostage…


----------



## Mosquito

but "I know where you live" :-D


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## controlfreak

Okay, with your help and pictures I figured out how to get things back together and a home for the spring. The bad news is the adjustment rod is gone and I suspect I will need to construct a new one. Not sure if I need exact measurements but seeking ideas. Other than that it looks like clean up and TLC.


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## Poa

Freak…..

I have an option that might work for you. The post, when compared to one on an early pull rod style All Steel, like yours, has the correct thread to go into the gib, and is the correct length. The draw back is that the lever has a hexagonal hole, and the post has knurls, so these two pieces are not of the same vintage. But the lever feels like it would press onto the knurls, tight. Might be worth a try. My worry would be the the post knurls will strip through use. A litte judicious spot weld on the knurls, and you might be able to file a partial hex shape on the post. Or, simply get the whole thing adjusted, then just tack the lever to the post. Finding that pull rod is not going to be easy.

Edit. Or. Come to think of it, use your post, and this lever.


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## theoldfart

Wow, this place has been hoppin'

CF, glad you were able to get it back to functional.

I do not have a micrometer so I can't check the 15 1/2 saw plate right now. I'll bring it into the shop on Moday along with Distons and Simonds mitre saws and get a measurement.


----------



## controlfreak

Its an education in progress. It would be easy to have a fully functional model next to a contraption but without it is friends and a inquisitive mind that will prevail.


----------



## RWE

*RWE, did you happen to measure the slots in the narrower saw guides? I'm curious what typical clearances are for the saw plate. That's one of the draws of the Stanley 150 box for me, it's adjustable to take up any slop.*

Ken: I just pulled out the Marsh. This Lumberjock deal is rough. I managed to get the Atkins saw to drop on one of my left fingers when I was putting the saw in the guides. Was bleeding all over my workbench. LOL. I will live.

Pictures below tell the tale, but using the digital caliper that I measured the Atkins saw plate with, I get a measurement of 1/32 for the gap in the guides. It is tight fit, but very stable and the saw moves well. This has rekindled my interest in the March now. I should have done the digital scale to see if I could find a slight difference, but Summerfi is looking over my shoulder and I used the English scale. May try the digital and post back. So both the saw plate and the gap measure 1/32.

A friend gave me the Marsh and I was frustrated about finding a saw for it since none of the 3/64 saws I had would fit the guides. Then the listing on Ebay yielded the thinner saw.

What I believe is an "optional" thin guide to match the thinner saw plate, which I am sure was sold as part of the thinner option:


















Note both sides, no air, no gap:


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks! That's a pretty tight fit. Hope you didn't loose too much blood!


----------



## RWE

Curiosity pulled me back. Using a digital scale on the caliper, the difference between the plate and the guide seems to run around .003 and .005. The slot in the guide has a little variation in its width. .0395 to .0400. The saw plate comes in at .0350 to .0365. All of those digital readings show up as 1/32 on the English scale.


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## HokieKen

Wow, that's a really tight fit!


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## Poa

Well, just to add to the confusion, I took a guide out of a Langdon no. 15 1/2, and tried it on the saw plates of various saws. With such a short guide, you can start it on a large saw plate by feeding it onto the lower toe of the plate at an angle. All my Disston and Atkins saws fit the 15 1/2 guide. But suprisingly, two 6"x 30" Warranted Superior mitre box saws, (clipped heels), have plates that are too thick to fit any of the guides I have, GP, Langdon, or Stanley 2358. They are only usable in guides that adjust for thickness, I.E. the Stanley double rod style. Odd. Neither of the two WSs have an etch. I am thinking that maybe they were saws provided with very late model Stanleys, which, perhaps etches were not provided on the saws, or the etches have since worn off. Or, maybe they aren't miter box saws at all, and the clipped heels are simply an aesthetic feature. But that seems unlikely to me. Such a large backsaw just doesn't seem all that useful. Unless perhaps for timber framing, when a guy would be cutting very large tenons.


----------



## Mosquito

That is interesting Poa, I used a guide post from mine as well and it seems like the .032" handsaw plate I have around fits quite nicely. I didn't pull any of my miter box saws out to test though, so that might be tonight's experiment.

Next thing, will be finding a saw back that will work. Blackburn tools sells 18" brass or bronze backs that are cut for .032", though I would prefer steel. I know TwoGuysInAGarage used to make steel folded backs, but they have since stopped making them, as well as taking orders for the time being. I thought I would prefer steel for originality, but perhaps bronze wouldn't be so bad


----------



## controlfreak

I have had a chance to explore my Goodell Pratt and other than the derusting and cleaning here is where I am at.
The zero mark seems to be good at 90 deg when I put a machinist's square to it so it's good. 
I landed the spring in the adjustment arm but it is missing its only purpose to find the major angle notches because the piece that finds the notch is missing. Do parts ever show up on ebay? if I need to make one does anyone have something I can look at? 
The small arm is still there to lock the angle adjustment but the push pull rod knob and connector to the adjustment arm is gone. I am guessing I can make one to do this if I can't find any parts. After I clean up what lubricant goes well in the saw guides?


----------



## controlfreak

The parts look slim to none so I guess it will be a Frankin box to a degree but I can make it work….until I get another.


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## HokieKen

Paste wax or nothing on the guides. And everywhere else.

Good luck finding parts. You're probably better off just buying another box TBH. If you find em, they ain't gonna be cheap. If you're lucky, somebody on this thread will have what you need.


----------



## controlfreak

Yeah Kenny, I am just going to clean it up and can deal with it as a user. I have learned a lot about what to look for in the ebay pictures now. Thanks for the paste wax tip.


----------



## HokieKen

> That is interesting Poa, I used a guide post from mine as well and it seems like the .032" handsaw plate I have around fits quite nicely. I didn t pull any of my miter box saws out to test though, so that might be tonight s experiment.
> 
> Next thing, will be finding a saw back that will work. Blackburn tools sells 18" brass or bronze backs that are cut for .032", though I would prefer steel. I know TwoGuysInAGarage used to make steel folded backs, but they have since stopped making them, as well as taking orders for the time being. I thought I would prefer steel for originality, but perhaps bronze wouldn t be so bad
> 
> - Mosquito


I can't bend you a steel back but I could slot one for ya.


----------



## Mosquito

Thank you for the offer Kenny, I'll have to give that some consideration


----------



## bandit571

Had to clean all the junk off this one..just to put it to use..









Stanley #358…..had a bunch of small parts to cut…


----------



## theoldfart

Controlfreak, if you are interested I can take the part you need from one of my boxes and send it to you. If it works HokieKen agreed to make one for you. I want to make sure my part is compatable to your box since yours is older than my two. If it works you can send the part on to Kenny and he'll fab it up.

Let us know what you think.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken and Controlfreak

This is the part I think is missing.









It slides up and engages the quadrant notches









It is one inch tall and 5/16" od. The notch is 1/8" deep and the bevels on the top are at right angles to the notch


----------



## controlfreak

That sounds great to me. You guys are awesome! I was struggling with how do I find or make what I can't see? I would love to see how the locking rod connects to the arm of the locking bar and the OD on that if it is not too much of a bother.

I got the saw guides freed up and deciding how far to go into derusting or cleaning.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks pretty simple and straightforward. I'll be glad to do it. I'll be out of town all next week but if you send it my way after that, I'll get one done.


----------



## theoldfart

I'll post some pics since I have it apart.


----------



## controlfreak

> Looks pretty simple and straightforward. I ll be glad to do it. I ll be out of town all next week but if you send it my way after that, I ll get one done.
> 
> - HokieKen


What, your not going to cancel your trip for this emergency? ;-)

Heck it would take longer than that to send this pin back and forth the way the postal service has been lately.


----------



## controlfreak

> I'll post some pics since I have it apart.
> 
> - theoldfart


I am betting that I can find some round stock to fit the two that would hold it and thread a small knob and whatever the other side needs to connect for the locking mechanism.


----------



## HokieKen

If you can coax Kev into sending those parts along as well, I can cobble up whatever you can't make yourself.


----------



## Poa

That part, could be easily fabricated with a couple good files. 5/16 round stock is readily available at any hardware store.

One suggestion I would offer is the filing of the angles that mesh with the angled knotches on the quadrant should be slowly worked into. Bear in mind, how this piece is filed will have a direct bearing on the accuracy of the indent settings. You will adjust this setting, when fabricating this part, by which side of the part, which angle, you file to move the setting left or right.


----------



## controlfreak

Yeah, before we start sending all these tiny pieces around let me take a whack at it. I should be able to get close and like Poa said sneak up on the left right adjustments. From the picture if the slot is 1/8" deep and at least as wide as the intersecting blade with about as much distance to the bottom end. I may need to break down and get a cheap metal working vise first.


----------



## theoldfart

Some more pics for CF









The rod is 3/16" od by about 6" long



















I was concerned about the accuracy of the bevels, that's why I suggested sending the pin to CF first to verify the fit. If it did Kenny could copy it and leave a little extra material on the bevels and CF could creep up on right fit. The relative position of the bevels to the notch is important as well as the bevels fit to the indents on the quadrant. If the bevel are started correctly then the file work would be more accurate.

Let me know what you folks decide, I have the pin out and my mitre box is fully functional without it for the time being


----------



## HokieKen

Whatever you need CF. You can definitely make that pin with just an angle grinder or dremel tool for the notch and a file for the bevels but I'll be glad to get it close for you and you can tune the bevels for a nice fit. The rod Kev shows looks pretty simple as well but if you need a hand with that, glad to help.

One thing I may be able to help with that you may not be able to do yourself is make an accurate replica of the knob on the end of that rod.


----------



## theoldfart

Latter versions of the All Steel had a simple loop.










and farther down the road they eliminated the rod all together and you had to reach the lever with your fingers.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh, by the way, this is the latest addition to the "I'm not a collector" collection.










A New Improved Langdon 34, size 2 1/2.

Tell you about the shark later.


----------



## Poa

As far as the knob at the end of the rod goes, the later boxes simply had the end of the rod bent into an eye, like Kevin pictured and commented. I think this change came about around the same time the mounting blocks for the stock rest and cut stop components were changed to the V groove style, rather than the earlier straight dato style.

If you scroll up the posts, you will see a comment and photo that I think Control Freak may have missed seeing. The latest All Steels did away with the rod style locking mechanism, and put a lever under the box, so you had to reach under the box to lock the swingarm between indents. I have an extra one of those levers, and it would be an option for Control Freak, bypassing having to duplicate the rod components.

Also of interest, the earliest All Steels had wood tables. The frame had eyes that the wood screws went through to attach the tables. The next generation retained the eyes, but had metal tables, and a metal skirt that raised the table to gib level, attached with washered machine screws that threaded into the tables. Then, they went to stiff wire loops, attached to the tables, then bent around the frame, doing away with the removable tables.


----------



## HokieKen

> Oh, by the way, this is the latest addition to the "I m not a collector" collection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A New Improved Langdon 34, size 2 1/2.
> 
> Tell you about the shark later.
> 
> - theoldfart


I thought maybe that was an EA Berg box ;-)


----------



## TedT2

So I am pretty much ignorant when it comes to miter boxes. I got this last night and I know it is very crusty. Just wondering if it is worth messing with or if I wasted my $1. I also included pictures of the saw it came with. Is this the correct saw? Thank you.


----------



## bandit571

My tablesaw won't cut deep enough..









So..how to cut that last little bit?









I set the 5×28" saw down into the kerf…about 12 strokes later..









Problem? Tablesaw has a wider kerf than the Disston does…









No biggie…couple passes with a plane to remove that strip…


----------



## bandit571

Disston made a LOT of saws for everybody's mitre boxes. That Langdon 74 will use a 5" under the spine, by 28" long saw….it might have an etch saying it was made "expressly for Millers Falls mitre box". Or, it might even have an etch for a Goodell Pratt Co. .....but it would still have the Disston & Sons stamp on the spine.

Clean them up, and put them to work….


----------



## TedT2

It is 5×28 and does have the stamp on the spine…I tried to get a picture of the stamp but failed…


----------



## controlfreak

Looks good and needs a good home.


----------



## Poa

Ted, in my world, that would be a candidate for restoration. It would be dismantled, and the parts given a good evaporust soak. Cleaned, painted, and reassembled. Not real familiar with that model box. Seems to have a short gib. Broken?? Kevin, anyone?


----------



## bandit571

Gib looks correct…I just checked the one on my Langdon 75..


----------



## Poa

Thanks bandit.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I agree with Bandit, the gib is correct.


----------



## theoldfart

Went rust hunting, friend told me about a Grizley 6" joiner at ReStore. Jointer was gone already BUT….

Brought these two home with me










and I left these behind



















I may go back for the Ulmia.


----------



## Poa

Kevin…. I have a small Ulmia. Pretty sure its incomplete, but its an older one, so can't find any pics to compare it to. Its a pretty cool little box. 16 1/2 size.


----------



## HokieKen

Ted, that is a stellar deal on that box. I'd clean it up and put it to work!

Gosh my ReStore sucks!


----------



## TedT2

> Ted, that is a stellar deal on that box. I'd clean it up and put it to work!
> 
> Gosh my ReStore sucks!
> 
> - HokieKen


I actually work as a ringer at an auction and they know I am a tool collector and no one would bid so one of the other guys bid a dollar for me and I got it…I do have like 6 miter boxes that I have gotten in similar fashion but this was pretty cool…I just don't know anything about them.


----------



## theoldfart

Ted, they are a good box and yours is a fairly early version. Well made and seriously durable and reliable.

Look here for more information. The site is good for all things Langdon, Goodell, and Millers Falls as far as mitre boxes are concerned.


----------



## controlfreak

Looks good and needs a good home.


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, i did a bad thing. I went back!



















And lucky thing i did. On the shelf behind where i picked up the Stanley 2358 this morning was this










I now have a complete box!


----------



## KentInOttawa

Bonus!


----------



## Poa

Kevin…

Is that a No. 2 tree or a No. 3-4?


----------



## theoldfart

4


----------



## Poa

Just a 4, or 3-4?


----------



## theoldfart

Hold on, all I saw was a 4, I'll double check.


----------



## theoldfart

Rust covered the 3

Controlfreak I have the parts you need now. PM me your address.


----------



## Poa

Thanks. That tree, obviously, is for a no.3 or a no. 4 frame. Good score.

The no.2s are a bit harder to come by, and they are slightly smaller in height. The legs on a no. 2 frame are slightly smaller in height, so if you try to use a no. 3-4 tree on a no.2 frame, the holes for the rod do not line up.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Jon. I'm not well versed in Stanley box arcana.

The Ulmia is a complete departure for me and it's heavyweight.


----------



## tshiker

> Ted, that is a stellar deal on that box. I'd clean it up and put it to work!
> 
> Gosh my ReStore sucks!
> 
> - HokieKen


That is exactly what I was thinking!!


----------



## tshiker

What a day for you Kevin, three boxes! Just imagine how many you'd have IF you were a collector! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Actually four this week!


----------



## Johnny7

*TedT2*

You may want to go to page 1 of this thread and have a look at the #7 post.
That box is of basically the same model, and of about the same time period.


----------



## bandit571

Cleaned up Langdon ACME…




































And a better look at the saw..









That "smudge" on the handle?









Is the Millers Falls "triangle" logo…
The only difference between my #75, the the OP's 74…..length of the saw's plate….mine uses a 30" long saw, a 74 uses a 28" long saw.


















Bought at a garage sale..$15 counting the stand..


----------



## ToddJB

.


----------



## HokieKen

Say that again Todd? I can't hear ya.


----------



## controlfreak

Epic fail. I got a good deal on a Atkins back saw I hoped would fit my miter box and here is what happend.









Maybe it will like to cut tenons? Has a lot of weight to it.

Okay, how is a saw measured, from top of back to the teeth or bottom of back? I also realized that I am going to need a lot more than 19" of saw teeth to do any meaningful cuts.

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. Says somebody.

It is still a cool saw and I will keep but onward I march.


----------



## Poa

Control freak. A mitre box saw is measured from the tooth line to the BOTTOM of the spine. And if it is an actual "mitre box saw" with a clipped heel, the length is measured from the toe to the end of the plate, (blade), INCLUDING what is is the handle. So, in length, your saw is probably a 20" incher. The were even numbers in lengths, in 2" increments.


----------



## theoldfart

CFreak, with that box you want at least a 28" saw.


----------



## bandit571

(I think he knows where one is…)


----------



## controlfreak

> CFreak, with that box you want at least a 28" saw.
> 
> - theoldfart


Even though the saw was too narrow one mock stroke told me way to small. It was listed at 10.00 and when I saw free shipping I bid on it and eventually got it for $22


----------



## controlfreak

> (I think he knows where one is…)
> 
> - bandit571


PM sent!


----------



## HokieKen

What size is that Atkins CF?


----------



## controlfreak

> What size is that Atkins CF?
> 
> - HokieKen


I think it is 4" from the bottom edge of the spine and the teeth measure 19" rear to toe.


----------



## Poa

This is a later GP All Steel, not sure what size. Its safe to say its a later box, by the way the tables are attached to the frame, with the bent wires. If I was still buying boxes, I would have a close eye on this one. The only missing component is the stop rod that goes in the cut stop assembly. A very simple piece to fabricate.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174377773999


----------



## HokieKen

Little shorter than I need…


----------



## HokieKen

The saw, not the GP box ;-)


----------



## Poa

Ken, what size saw are you you looking for, for what make and model box?


----------



## HokieKen

I haven't decided for sure Jon. It's for my Monkey Wards 150 box. I'm thinking 4×22. For now I have the 18" Bandit sent me but I think my arms like a little longer throw.


----------



## Poa

Ken… I have a 4×22 Atkins, that I have taken the handle off for repairs. I have the main repair done, but was planning on repairing the chipped upper horn as well. The plate is exactly 22", and 3-7/8" under the spine. I can post pics later today after I get back from my treatments. If you are interested in the saw, I can finish the repair, or leave as is, and you can do as you like.


----------



## Poa

A note about the GP box on ebay that I linked to. I have been under the impression that when the table fasteners were switched to wire fasteners, rather than machine screws, that the V end blocks were introduced at the same time. But I note this box still has the dato style blocks, so pffft, there goes another of my theories down the rabbit hole. But hey, at least this time I wasn't arguing a fallacy against one of Jeff's truths.


----------



## bandit571

This was put to work, last night..









Strip of pine scrap, as the molding has a rebated backside….









Kind of dresses up a box…









Don't ya think?

Stanley No. 358….


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Jon! I'm on vacation this week but when I get back home I'll just verify the length of the saw I have and make sure 22" feels right. I shoot you an e-mail next week.


----------



## theoldfart

Controlfreak, parts will ship to you on Monday


----------



## bandit571

Looking like this may also go out Monday, via PakMail..
.








Hope I have wrapped up nicely enough…handle is in the center…in it's own wrapper.


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks Bandit. The post office may fold it for you to save room.

I ordered some blind color samples and after two weeks I ask about them. The sent tracking and said there were being returned for invalid address after arriving at my post office less than a mile away. The address was mine and perfect. They are very cranky these days.


----------



## Poa

Hey everyone…..

To everyone I have flaked on these last few months, my apologies. This "thing" is really screwing with my ability to just do simple mundane tasks. Even simple stuff like making the post office has gotten pretty screwed up. I will try to get it together this week, and get some stuff on its way. Egads. Life is truly an adventure.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon work on the adventure When you've got that down we'll work with you on the rest. Hanging there buddy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, it is an adventure! Sometimes, not a very good one.

We're all got your back, Jon. Keep up the fight with whatever has you down; wishing you well.


----------



## theoldfart

Just had a small success with an All Steel. Made an index pin from rod stock and it fits! I need to get a spring pin to replace the one I had to drill out then reassemble the thing and try it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Then you deserve a small "Hurray!"


----------



## theoldfart

Yup. just a file and hack saw and shazam!


----------



## theoldfart

Index pin



















Engaged in the quadrant


----------



## JethroBodean

Kevin (theoldfart) I just sent you a PM.


----------



## theoldfart

Got it and thanks. PM returned


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks to @oldfart I have the parts but can't seem to figure out how remove one bar for another. The new has an elongated hole with two flats. The other has a six sided hex that seems smaller than the round threads. ???


----------



## theoldfart

CFreak, I think your better off drilling out the rivet that holds the round pin to the bar on the one I sent you. Then attach the assembly to your original bar. May take some drilling and tapping to get it attached. Maybe some folks can chime in with ideas. Also post a pic of the other side of the I sent.


----------



## MPython

> Hey everyone…..
> 
> To everyone I have flaked on these last few months, my apologies. This "thing" is really screwing with my ability to just do simple mundane tasks. Even simple stuff like making the post office has gotten pretty screwed up. I will try to get it together this week, and get some stuff on its way. Egads. Life is truly an adventure.
> 
> - Poa


Jon, take care of yourself first. The rest will fall in place - or not. It's not as important as your health.


----------



## HokieKen

CF, if that piece is held on with a rivet, drill it out. Then get some aluminum or brass bar that's the right size for the hole and peen the ends to hold it in place.

Either of those are easy to peen and youtube will show you how to do it. It's a valuable skill to have if your gonna be playing with vintage tools ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

Okay here is another view


----------



## controlfreak

> CF, if that piece is held on with a rivet, drill it out. Then get some aluminum or brass bar that's the right size for the hole and peen the ends to hold it in place.
> 
> Either of those are easy to peen and youtube will show you how to do it. It's a valuable skill to have if your gonna be playing with vintage tools ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


I don't mind learning something new and it's more fun if I need to buy more tools! I posted another view. It looks like I may need to grind off the part that is retaining the piece and then see what comes next. Haven't quite figured out how to keep from closing against the bar and restricting movement. Since you are the metal expert i will wait for you to comment.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm confused now CF. I thought you just needed to take the old tab off the box and put the new one on. So you need to take that round bar off the new tab and put it on the old one?


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, yes. The tab I sent has a different shaped hole. Easier to swap bars than tying to modify the hole.


----------



## HokieKen

And the bar is riveted onto that tab? If so, I'd probably just drill out the rivet, drill and tap the bottom of the boss that the bar is attached to and use a screw and some threadlocker to put it on the new one.


----------



## theoldfart

That was my thought.


----------



## controlfreak

Perhaps I need a good close up of each. If I could just get the old bar off the stud it would be easy to get the new bar on and use existing threads to attach a nut. I am just stumped as to how they have a six sided hole that is smaller than the round threads extending below it. That brings the next question, why do they even have threads there that are not even used?


----------



## theoldfart

There should have been a nut holding the the plate on the stud. I'll dig up a pic.


----------



## controlfreak

> There should have been a nut holding the the plate on the stud. I'll dig up a pic.
> 
> - theoldfart


Without the nut I can't seem to get the plate off the six sided area below the threads but I haven't tried any force yet. Time to get the pry bar and big hammer out.


----------



## theoldfart

I did wind up using two screwdrivers 180 degrees apart to pry it off. Try not to bugger the threads, it's not easy!


----------



## controlfreak

> I did wind up using two screwdrivers 180 degrees apart to pry it off. Try not to bugger the threads, it s not easy!
> 
> - theoldfart


Thanks, I'll hold off on the big hammer for now.


----------



## HokieKen

Are you sure the threads won't follow that hex cutout? In other words, you may be able to thread it out rather than drive it out…


----------



## controlfreak

> Are you sure the threads won t follow that hex cutout? In other words, you may be able to thread it out rather than drive it out…
> 
> - HokieKen


It is very close but I will need to clear the hexagon that locks it in place before I can start spinning the piece on the threads.


----------



## controlfreak

It popped right off. I think I should use as a template and file the new piece to fit.


----------



## HokieKen

I still have no idea what you had or how it came apart but I'm hlad you got it


----------



## Poa

That whole cluster is the Achilles Heel of the GP All Steels. Wait until you get it back together, and try to adjust the amount of lock tension on the quadrant it has between indents.

One of two things will happen; the small odds eventuality is that bingo, it will work perfectly. Mind you, in my experience of restoring five separate All Steels, that has never occurred. But it could.

The more likely scenario is that it will not operate very smoothly, and will require adjustment. Then the fun begins. Think "shims". Very very thin shims. Its been a while since I did one. I suppose I will have to tear into one of mine to refresh my memory.


----------



## controlfreak

I was able to file the six sides to fit the hex on the base of the bolt so I am good there. The only problem I am having now is trying to get the set pin in. I keep taking things apart but have yet to find a way to get the pin in and the mating tab into the locking slot. It's like one of those bar puzzles where it seems impossible until you know the trick. I got irritated last night and thought I would take a fresh look today after work.


----------



## controlfreak

finally figured out that the pin with two flared ends had to be driven out which is why I was hoping for another way. After disassembling most of the box I have found another missing screw. I have to wonder what the objective was when someone disassembled these key parts. Of course I also question why my dumb ass bought this box but I so much appreciate the the help I have received here. Thanks to oldfart I am one screw away from a complete box minus the whole shiming issue.


----------



## theoldfart

Well, since I encouraged you to get the box rather than the one you wanted I don't think any thanks are due. Which screw is missing?


----------



## controlfreak

The long piece a groove that the saw is cutting to has two screws that thread into two standoff posts. The one in the front of the handle is recessed so that it won't interfere with depressing the locking pin. This one I have and is the same thread count as the rear screw. Because the rear screw is not recessed it needs to be about a quarter inch longer. This is the one missing. Here is a picture of the short screw.









I plan on taking it to lowes to match the treads and head size. If I can find something 1/4" longer or more I should be complete. Than its on to cleaning it up.


----------



## Poa

That long piece is called the "gib".

I regret now that I just haven't offered up a frame and swingarm. Its very doubtful now that I will ever get to complete the restoration. The offer is open. You'd need to pay shipping.

Pics later in the morning.


----------



## HokieKen

If that's not a standard thread CF, let me know and I can make you one.

Kev, I'd say you've been more than helpful in helping CF out with this box ;-) We all roll the dice when we buy these vintage tools. Nobody gets dinged for good advice. Even if they're not a collector


----------



## Poa

Freak…..

Anyway, if you wanna pay shipping on this, its yours. Its for a six inch saw. I understand if you are hell bent on getting yours back together. I know how that goes. Even if you get this frame, you will still be missing some parts. But at least this frame is usable and has a functioning swing arm. No way am I going to finish this resto.


----------



## controlfreak

> That long piece is called the "gib".
> 
> I regret now that I just haven t offered up a frame and swingarm. Its very doubtful now that I will ever get to complete the restoration. The offer is open. You d need to pay shipping.
> 
> Pics later in the morning.
> 
> - Poa


I knew some part is called the "gib" but until you explained that it was the long thingy. I will check out the pictures but think I almost have this one complete. It has been fun and I have learned a lot. I also have met some really cool and helpful people


----------



## Poa

I also might as well off this frame. Doubtful I will finish it. But this one I can't afford to give away. 75 bucks, plus shipping. It too is a 6 incher. If you want the stops, an extra 25. (I do not have the stop fasteners). It was completely torn down, evaporusted, solvent washed, repainted and reassembled. It is an early one, with wooden tables, which I cut out of poplar. Holler if anyone is interested. I am finally done with daily radiation treatments, and can devote a little concentration to liquidating some of my tool collections. I will be compiling a list of boxes that I will be selling. Quite a few, actually, including some highly desirable ones.


----------



## controlfreak

Hey @Poa I see that screw on the bottom laughing and mocking me. It looks fairly complete to me. I am still working on the saw part of the box I have which is a long story at this point I may take you up on your offer. Any idea what parts are missing? Not being picky just curious. When I found out what was missing on mine I wasn't sure I would ever find any parts for it….til I landed here.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm pretty sure the screw your looking for is a standard thread. I checked my stash but no luck.


----------



## controlfreak

> I m pretty sure the screw your looking for is a standard thread. I checked my stash but no luck.
> 
> - theoldfart


I was thinking "what's with all the oddball thread counts?" I am about to hit Lowes up to see if I can find a suitable match.

For inquiring minds it is a 1/4 - 20


----------



## theoldfart

Took a break from all the hubbub around here and re assembled the New Improved Langdon #34. My buddy freed up the frozen lever and brazed the end casting, works quite fine.










Nice and square


----------



## controlfreak

@Poa The shimming that were referring to, is that to true the saw to get a perfect 90 deg? Or is that to get a strong lock on the adjuster? With the hexagon I filed into the lever arm I seem to be able to dial in the tension force on the swing lock.


----------



## Poa

Freak…

Its to adjust the lock tension between indents. Sounds like you might have gotten lucky.


----------



## controlfreak

That's what I was hoping for Poa, thanks.


----------



## theoldfart

CFreak, almost time for some pics of the All Steel in action.


----------



## controlfreak

> CFreak, almost time for some pics of the All Steel in action.
> 
> - theoldfart


I got it put together mostly because I was scared I would lose a part with it broke down. As I put it together I noticed that I can move the front saw guide in and out. Any particular logic as to where to set that? I will post a pic later because, of course, I have some questions. The locking bar and rod are doing well locking the lateral movement but unit I have a saw I can't test for true 90 or 45 cuts. It will need a good cleaning and then some more pics to see what else may be missing. Call me anal retentive but having one phillips head screw on the bottom bothers me. I have to tell myself it is a user and it's on the bottom so don't sweat it. Been trying to finish my beer swap project and the deadline is looming so I am immersed in that this weekend. Thought I had dovetails mastered but struggled through the last one and it's a bit rough.

Pictures in action not going to happen yet. Bandit was nice enough to give me a saw if I cover the shipping but the post office disagrees and apparently decided to confiscate the money order I sent on 8/4/20. I can't void until 9/4 so it is what it is.


----------



## theoldfart

Freak, the front post moves in and out to accommodate wider stock. It's better to leave it in the narrowest position most pf the time. When wider stock needs cutting set it about a 1/2" wider than the stock your cutting, just be aware that the gib does not extend so there's no support on the outer edge of the cut.


----------



## controlfreak

Okay here is the top and bottom pics. On the sides there are some thumb screws that don't seem to do much, what are they?









And the bottom, guess which screw is not like the others


----------



## Poa

Freak…

Those thumb screws on the ends lock the stock rest and cut stop in place. Don't lose them, they are hard to come by.


----------



## theoldfart

Freak, mine are the V bottom variety but otherwise yours will look like these.


----------



## Poa

No…actually, Kevin, it is a whole different arrangement for the dato style blocks. The slot on the end block and the slide bar on the component is keyed, so the component has to slide in. And the washer on the thumbsrew locks the component in place by tightening against the slide bar. Yours is the later style.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, I didn't word my comment very well. I was referring to the post and the length stop, not the mounting bars.


----------



## Poa




----------



## Poa

Ahh! I see, Kevin. I thought you were referring to the clamping piece and knurled cap screw.


----------



## controlfreak

I thought they had something to do with stops or holding the workpiece but I couldn't figure out how the screws were exerting pressure on the missing pieces. When I get to the shop I will take a better look. Thank you to all!


----------



## controlfreak

Ahh, now it all makes sense. I was only manipulating the right hand screw and the washer by chance was the one that someone decided to include amongst all the randomly lost parts. The left side has the thick washer under the side of the channel so I didn't see it. At least I have one to take to Lowes for a match. I don't have anything to put into the channels yet but it is one more piece of the puzzle solved


----------



## controlfreak

Hah, I went out and got two washers to equal the thickness of the one missing Only to realize that it is not likely I will ever find the work support fence and the stop. I did some checking but nothing popped up. Are there any identical parts on a Millers Falls all steel? I have the square channels not the triangular ones. As a user I can make my own stop block with a clamp so its not mission critical.

One leg was bent pretty bad so I want to check the accuracy before going down the dismantling road. Once I get a saw in it and don't find any mechanical problems I plan on cleaning and maybe a restoration. I kind of fancy the green Poa used on one further up this thread. I need to build a nice shelf for it. Now if I only had some french cleats in my shop to hang it on.


----------



## HokieKen

Those are the kinds of parts that cause you to end up spending 3X as much "completing" a box as you would have spent buying a complete one to begin with CF. If you aren't concerned with it being original and complete, make your own or do without


----------



## controlfreak

> Those are the kinds of parts that cause you to end up spending 3X as much "completing" a box as you would have spent buying a complete one to begin with CF. If you aren t concerned with it being original and complete, make your own or do without
> 
> - HokieKen


From what I understand you can make anything. Me I just need to make it function and maybe look nice. Its more about the journey at this point. I can be happy with a wooden stop block. It never bothered me with my chop saw. I may look for a complete restored one if I buy again. I still think I will clean this one up to get better acquainted with it. Right now I am asking myself "electrolysis or evapo rust" since I have almost master disassembly now.


----------



## HokieKen

I understand totally. I'm no collector so when I shop for old tools, I look for ones that are functional for my needs more than ones that are complete. And yeah, you can make anything. I generally don't until I run into a need for it. And for ~75% of missing doo-dads on vintage tools, I never find one.

I've never used electrolysis or evaporust personally. I'm a sandblaster kinda guy. Evaporust seems like a lot less effort ;-)


----------



## Poa

I have never, repeat, never, seen an old All Steel stock rest, or any of the cut stop components for sale. Ken has it right, in my opinion. Some of the boxes are inpossible to find parts for. The Catch 22 is that they seem to all be missing the same parts, so even buying so called "parts boxes" is futile, because you end up with a bunch of incomplete frames you will never complete. It is far more prudent, and economical, to be patient and wait for the right complete box to come along. An exception is the Stanleys. Parts are pretty much available for them. But again, it can take patience.


----------



## theoldfart

Funny thing is with the All Steels, a box with the coping stop is harder to find than a box with the length stop. I've only found one complete All Steel box in the wild, kicker is it was a six incher.


----------



## Poa

I have never found an All Steel in the wild. The complete GP boxes I have gotten are all ebay purchases. I think there is a complete GP on ebay right now.


----------



## HokieKen

So did those All Steel boxes only have a stock rest one one end and the stop on the other? If you're cutting something you need rests for, it seems pretty impractical to only have one.

If I were you CF, I'd make a couple of wood blocks that slide in those tracks and epoxy a dowel in each one sticking up vertically and call it good.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, yes one of each.


----------



## HokieKen

Wouldn't that make it kinda awkward if you were cutting a long piece or crown molding or something? It seems to me like it would be but I could be way off base. My stock rests only get used to hold boards against the fence…


----------



## controlfreak

> So did those All Steel boxes only have a stock rest one one end and the stop on the other? If you re cutting something you need rests for, it seems pretty impractical to only have one.
> 
> If I were you CF, I d make a couple of wood blocks that slide in those tracks and epoxy a dowel in each one sticking up vertically and call it good.
> 
> - HokieKen


I think it's your either right handed or left, the boxes are not going to ship extras. I agree, it is only the people the save the instructions and the original packaging that will have the stops intact. It's okay I have done the math, if I value that I am just going to have to be patient and pay for it. I am still having fun playing with my miter box as is, or evolving work of art. The wood blocks sound really cool and easier to clamp, I like it.


----------



## HokieKen

There's one of my holy grail tools passing me by and taunting me again… The opening bid is only about $600 more than I can throw at it :-(


----------



## HokieKen

I could mill you some metal blocks if you really wanted them CF. But if it were my box, I'd just use wood.


----------



## controlfreak

> There s one of my holy grail tools passing me by and taunting me again… The opening bid is only about $600 more than I can throw at it :-(
> 
> - HokieKen


That looks so cool but for my budget it can't fix my needs but pending a winning lotto ticket its mine.


----------



## controlfreak

> I could mill you some metal blocks if you really wanted them CF. But if it were my box, I d just use wood.
> 
> - HokieKen


Custom milling of blocks is not a want or need. I am happy to take the route of improvising a work around. I feel blessed that through Oldfarts help I got the major missing parts intact again and have a tool worthy of care now and in the future.


----------



## KentInOttawa

There's been a Goodell mitre box with original crate for sale on Kijiji for a month now. CAD$150, so US$100-120.

Edit: fixed link.


----------



## controlfreak

> There s been a Goodell mitre box with original crate sale on Kijiji for a month now. CAD$150, so US$100-120.
> 
> - Kent


It's not there now or a broken link maybe


----------



## JethroBodean

> I have never found an All Steel in the wild. The complete GP boxes I have gotten are all ebay purchases. I think there is a complete GP on ebay right now.
> 
> - Poa


Completely opposite for me. I was given my first All-Steel from an Uncle. All the rest of them are Good Will (2 of them), Antique/Junk Stores (3) and all the rest have been from Craigslist (4). Of those only one is from after the Millers Falls buy out.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> There s been a Goodell mitre box with original crate for sale on Kijiji for a month now. CAD$150, so US$100-120.
> 
> - Kent


 CF - Link fixed, I think.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, that's my only grail, get your own!

You'd think living near where they were made would lead to an abundance of unusual MF stuff but just didn't happen.

That's why i moved to the tool rich area of NorCal.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My G-P was a craigslit find. Sort of. Went to buy a listed Workmate, sppotted and bought the box while I was in the guy's garage. It was my mom's, he said.


----------



## controlfreak

> There s been a Goodell mitre box with original crate for sale on Kijiji for a month now. CAD$150, so US$100-120.
> 
> - Kent
> 
> CF - Link fixed, I think.
> 
> - Kent


Yes link fixed. What is it the causes people to place a saw in a miter box backwards and take a picture, it knocks a lot of value off the saw because it bugs me so much. LOL I am getting smarter about this and don't see the adjustment lock but I suppose it could be a knob style too. I am suspicious of the posts removed. Do any owners with the original box know if the saw fits in it with the posts attached? I find the boxes very interesting and hope to make one as a replica.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, that s my only grail, get your own!
> 
> You d think living near where they were made would lead to an abundance of unusual MF stuff but just didn t happen.
> 
> That s why i moved to the tool rich area of NorCal.
> 
> - theoldfart


I thought you already had one for some reason Kev? Maybe it was Jon? Somebody on LJs has one…

I have a shooting board build planned in the near future. I may decided to copy that bad boy…


----------



## controlfreak

I must admit that the prankster in me was thinking of posting that I have bought a "Rip" saw for my miter box just to see what you all would say to that.

I placed a saw in the miter box that is to small but allows me to measure from the bottom of the "Back" to the top of the gib (Not the bottom of groove)I came up with about 4 5/8". I have spotted a 26" Disston https://www.ebay.com/itm/303642937137?ul_noapp=true
that has less than $10 shipping so thats not bad. When I asked him to measure the saw from the bottom of the back to the teeth he said "from what I can tell the distance you requested is about 4 3/4" at front end (toe) and about 4 7/8" at back (heel)." Can I adjust the box to compensate for this 1/4" taper. I have checked and have the limit stops on both posts


----------



## theoldfart

The taper may be from the back moving on the plate. The back can be moved with a wooden block while holding the plate in a leg vise. There is a chance that the plate may warp from the change in tension. I did reset one of mine and had no issues.


----------



## bandit571

Still waitin to ship out a GP/ Disston No. 4 Miter box saw….5×28…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kenny, your bucket list / dream miter went unsold. So you've got some time to save up before it's relisted!


----------



## controlfreak

> Still waitin to ship out a GP/ Disston No. 4 Miter box saw….5×28…
> 
> - bandit571


Still want it bandit so don't unpack it.


----------



## controlfreak

> The taper may be from the back moving on the plate. The back can be moved with a wooden block while holding the plate in a leg vise. There is a chance that the plate may warp from the change in tension. I did reset one of mine and had no issues.
> 
> - theoldfart


I think I saw a Paul Sellers video where he slaps the saw on its back to set the back but I think the reason was to correct a warp that the saw had. My only concern is that if it infact has some taper can I adjust one post a bit higher if only to prevent the teeth from bottoming out? I guess I would want the teeth to make even contact with the wood too.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, your bucket list / dream miter went unsold. So you ve got some time to save up before it s relisted!
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I better get out and pick up some soda cans!


----------



## theoldfart

Freak, mitre saws should not have a taper. You can find back, tenon and sash saws with a taper. It'll be difficult to my mind trying to accommodate a tapered plate with the post adjustments.


----------



## Poa

Point of fact, you cannot use a saw that has blade taper. On the stroke, the blade height within the guide is changing, so you cannot adjust the stops to compensate. You have to adjust the plate in the spine so you have an equal measurement at the toe and the heel of the plate, under the spine. And a nice straight toothline is pretty much an imperitive as well. A mitre box will only perform as well as the saw that it is mated to. I hate to admit it, but I send my mitre box saws out to be sharpened. I just have not had the time to spend to teach myself to sharpen with a skill level that a mitre box saw requires. I mainly use Bob Summerfield at Rocky Mountain Saw Works, in Montana. I have also heard very good things about Bob Page, who is a Facebook regular in an antique saw FB group I belong to. If anyone wants contact info on either of them, holler. It requires shipping, but I have yet to find a saw smith in my area.


----------



## JethroBodean

OK, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree (or maybe I'm just barking mad), I spotted this Miter Box on eBay that I haven't seen before. Looking at the pictures, I couldn't decide if this was a User built box or a manufactured box. Notice the woodens block with a slit being used for the saw guides.




























So I went on a US Patent hunt. I did not find anything that I would necessarily call a match. But I did find US93589A, this is the only patent I found with similar wooden saw guides.


















So any thoughts, opinions, hard knowledge???? Opinions questioning my sanity will be accepted. 
(BTW: I'll not be bidding on it, so go for it if you are so inclined!)


----------



## bandit571

Saw should be on somebody's porch, tomorrow afternoon-ish….depends when FedEx goes by…careful when you cut it open….


----------



## controlfreak

Outstanding Bandit! That was fast.


----------



## DLK

One more piece of the Stanley-Marse-100 picture frame miter box arrived today. The ruler. The most expensive ruler in the world. But worth it. It is very difficult get. Shoot out to POA for finding and selling it. Now I only need the rule gauge.



















You can see the two two low clamps I have, which are also difficult to come by. Naturally I have placed the red one on the right and the blue one on the left. The red one came with miter box when I bought it. The blue one was sold to me here by poopiekat (I think). The red one fits fine, but the blue one is loose or some might say too liberal. It does not retreat when the screw is turned, it will advance though and do it is job.

The rule gauge that I am missing is this part. They are pretty scarce.


----------



## Poa

Don…. I am extremely happy it went to you, instead of some unknown person on Face Book.

I am still determined to sell off the lion's portion of my collection of parts, mitre box saws, and mitre boxes. I still have a couple batches of small parts to ship to Kevin and "Freak" this week. Then I will post pics of some parts boxes I have, to see if anyone wants an entire parts box, or wants to rob pieces off them. Everything I offer to sell will be shown here first, before getting listed in Face Book postings.


----------



## bandit571

A box has been delivered to someone's front porch…...better hurry…


----------



## controlfreak

Woot woot! Thank you Steve. Sorry it had to occupy space in your foyer while we waited on the USPS, and still waiting too.


----------



## controlfreak

Well thanks to Bandit I now have a saw and cut my first board and put a square on it and it is dead on 90 degrees. The saw guides are a bit dirty so it may be time to start cleaning and maybe doing a full restoration. One question that came up is how to keep the saw from making contact with the gib. I see two ways to accomplish this so one must be correct. There are two small stops that I would guess are the max depth stops. Then there are two longer stops which I assume are to limit depth of cut in the material. Also what is the preferred method to set the max stops? Eyeball it, or a set distance from the bottom groove of gib.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep CF, the short stops are to keep your saw from hitting the gib. Set em and forget em. The long ones are for setting depth for cutting tenons and such. Glad you're in business!


----------



## EarlS

I saw this on the local Craigslist:
Stanley 2358A Miter Saw

I'm don't know a whole lot about vintage miter saws so I thought I'd ask the experts. I got rid of my big Dewalt miter saw and stand when I moved into a smaller shop since it took up so much space. While I can cut miters on the table saw with my fancy JessEm miter bar, I would prefer to have the ability to cut the little pieces by hand and not have to worry about them flying off the TS blade. Thoughts on whether this is a decent deal and if it will fill my expected needs?

*Alternatively, if anyone on this thread is selling miter boxes I'd be interested in hearing what you have.*

I have one of these, but it can be a pain to use on anything other than the smallest pieces:


----------



## controlfreak

I haven't even thought about cutting tenons on a miter box. I don't know why? When I think about what a pain it is to set up a dado blade to do it I might like this. It seems that I always have a work flow issue when using a dado blade. Out of fear the I will have an error carried out on all pieces on a project so I want to test fit one first. That will usually means a blade change to make a cut I did't think about. With hand tools I just need enough gauges to leave in my marked position.

Now that Bandit sent the crosscut saw I am now looking for my miter rip saw


----------



## NickyMac

@EarlS
All together with the stops and saw, that looks like a decent deal to me. Of course you'll want to inspect everything, and likely benefit from sharpening the saw.

POA is thinning his herd of boxes if you want to reach out.


----------



## bandit571

Nothing to it, cut a decent saw kerf all around, set the saw into the kerf…









Beats using a BIG rip saw…









But, sometimes I need to…









I usually just set a piece of paper on the gib…then set the stops so the saw rests on the paper.

I also set up a stop block…so I can slide each part up to the block, cut the shoulder of a tenon, flip the board over, and repeat…









I made one test cut, to set the depth…front and back..









Set a stop block ( have to keep it clear of sawdust, though)









And make a cut, flip over, and make the other cut..









Shoulder cuts done…then..









Lay out the cheek cuts…you can then either split off the waste (grain willing) or









Handsaw the cheek cuts….and clean up with a chisel..









Then notch as needed…these are for a side table's aprons..


----------



## Poa

Earl…...

I will be unloading a number of boxes. It sounds like you are looking for a user box, rather than a collector's piece. May I ask what kind of woodworking you are interested in using it for?


----------



## Poa

Dang it!!! I am supposed to be unloading, not buying. But gee, brass? I mean really, who can resist brass? Usually, I pass on user modified tools, of any sort. But this little No. 16 1/2 just grabbed me by the heart strings. Wouldn't it be wonderful to know its story? Obviously, the modification took some doing, and ain't the work of some yahoo screwing up a good thing. So yeah, I admit it, it was an impulse buy. It was on the bay as a six day auction. I emailed the guy, gave "him a buy it now" option price, and he upped my offer by twenty bucks, and relisted it as a buy it now. Really, I probably paid too much for it. Woulda been a helluva deal if it was unmodified. But I am just a stupid sucker for brass. And ya gotta admit, brass looks damned good on this little box, eh?


----------



## JethroBodean

Jon - It appears that you 'unload' similar to the way I do. It's a beauty.


----------



## EarlS

Poa - I do a little bit of everything. I tend to use the table saw for big stuff, though I don't like tipping the blade to make miters. Little stuff generally is cut on the box I posted which isn't really too great. I also enjoy the look of vintage (antique) tools. PM me if you have pictures or suggestions. Not a big rush since I'm out for the next several weeks recovering from carpal tunnel surgery.


----------



## 33706

Combo Prof:
I can't take credit for the mitre clamp on your setup. Musta been someone else! I do have to round up my half-dozen vintage mitre boxes and make a decision in the near future.


----------



## theoldfart

PK, I didn't realize you dabbled in the dark arts .


----------



## controlfreak

Hah, Poa, I had a similar event happen. I saw a miter box almost identical to mine with a starting bid of $35 so I was the first bidder at the starting price and was sure I would be outbid. It was a reflex bid but before I looked and saw the shipping was $65. I watched it all week hoping for another bid to come in and of course I won. I had to fess up to the wife that I screwed up. So it looks like I am crossing into the restore zone.

On the positive side I found a old fire panel taking up space in the warehouse and listed it for $350. It sold Thursday.


----------



## 33706

> PK, I didn't realize you dabbled in the dark arts .
> 
> - theoldfart


No, Kevin, the problem I have with mitre boxes is that my favorite one doesn't have a detent for 22 1/2 degrees. How dumb is that?


----------



## theoldfart

Does seem counterintuitive PK. I their day, mitre boxes were marked for 4,6,and 8 sided shapes.

I'm going out to check some of mine.


----------



## bandit571

Isn't a 8 sided box used 22-1/2 degrees? #4 = 45 degrees.

Nothing but cheap plastic and "pot metal" mitre boxes today….wasn't worth the effort to even lift up to look at…


----------



## DLK

> Combo Prof:
> I can t take credit for the mitre clamp on your setup. Musta been someone else!
> - poopiekat


Well that's mysterious, If not you or POA I cannot imagine who. Maybe from some other site.


----------



## Poa

Don…. obviously wasn't me. Its possible you were visited by the gauge fairy. If she comes back by your place, tell her I need a pair of the clamping spacers.


----------



## bandit571

Food for thought…









Picked today…BABCO?


----------



## DLK

> Don…. obviously wasn t me. Its possible you were visited by the gauge fairy. If she comes back by your place, tell her I need a pair of the clamping spacers.
> 
> - Poa


I remember someone posted a picture of it (the blue low clamp) saying that they didn't know what it was. I saw it and immediately told them what it was and that I would buy it.

BTW I cleaned up the ruler and then gave her a coat of alfie shine. Now she's is purty. I will be building a shrine for her so that she can't get damaged. The casting on the miter box is a bit off. The ruler fist perfectly on one side but is a smidge to high on the other. I have to figure out why that is. probably its is not enough to interfere with the operation. I will have to check. Then I will go into the framing business. LOL.


----------



## controlfreak

Okay, so I ordered a inexpensive miter box with saw that had $65 shipping that I failed to check and just opened the saw first.









Catastrophe! I would never dream that the most fragile part of the saw would have zero protection. I was so sick I didn't even open the miter box.


----------



## Poa

Always contact the seller, and express concern about shipping. Many sellers have no idea about the tools they are selling, and are inexperienced in safely shipping them. I always email sellers, and politely offer suggestions about packaging. You just learned a lesson we all have learned in the past. Never trust a seller to know WTF they are doing, unless you have dealt with them before. Even the seller of that little Langdon I snagged off ebay a couple of days ago got a polite email from me, about safely shipping the box, regardless of the fact that he has a longtime perfect seller's rating.


----------



## theoldfart

I've had the last two mitre boxes damaged in shipping. Jon is absolutely correct, sellers do not understand how fragile cast iron is when it is able to move in the box. With that much mass you can be certain it WILL move. Shippers are not going to be extra careful no matter how many times you mark it as fragile. Once you've written to a seller they are on notice. I've gotten refunds and adjustments but would rather have the box. It's not like they'll just make another one. AS they get broken the supply gets harder to find and the prices just become obscene.


----------



## controlfreak

He has responded to my contact and I told him that we will figure it out. But I must admit that even as a new player in this arena that I would never attempt to ship a saw with the handle unprotected. Now Bandit on the other hand takes the handle off and attaches it to the side of saw….smart man or experience, hmmm


----------



## Poa

Here is an example. This is the message I sent to the ebay seller I bought the 16 1/2 from…..

"Thank you. Its still a bit more than I wanted to pay, but you graciously considered my request for a "buy it now", and I appreciate it. The mitre box is a Langdon No. 16 1/2. They are quite sought after. However, yours has a diminished value, because the brass calibration strip on the quadrant is actually a modification. As such, it seriously diminishes the collector's value of the box. But I am fond of user modifications on antique tools, and this modification looks well done."

"Please, package the box extremely carefully. As a collector of vintage and antique mitre boxes, it pains me how many have been damaged in shipping. Use plenty of packing material, make sure that the mitre box cannot move around in the shipping box, and that no part of the mitre box can be allowed to contact the edges of the shipping box if dropped or thrown. Thanks again. I will leave you feedback after receiving the item."


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks Poa, that sounds like good advise. I think the key things I did wrong here are 1) I didn't intend to buy the saw. 2) I didn't have any interaction with the seller. 3) I assumed it would be packed "well". I just hate to see an old Disston saw go down like that. I will possibly attempt to glue the handle. I am wondering if I can find a badly rusted saw with good handle? I don't think my skill set is up to making a new handle at this point.

The saw and box were packed separately and the box was actually packed very well and arrived with no damage. It looks compete except for the two depth of cut stops (the long ones) that are missing. Anyone have any of those to sell? The shorts ones (max depth) are there. The other thing that is there is the adjustable bar the holds molding or other work so that's a win.


----------



## Poa

Freak…..

Are the washers and knurled thumb screws there, that hold the missing stops?


----------



## Poa

BTW Freak…..

Very rarely will a fresh handle match the holes in a saw plate. The holes in the plate were punched by hand. Chain saw files work well at enlarging plate holes slightly, so a fresh handle can be installed on a plate.


----------



## controlfreak

> Freak…..
> 
> Are the washers and knurled thumb screws there, that hold the missing stops?
> 
> - Poa


Yes they are there bu I need to look close to see if the washers are there too.


----------



## controlfreak

> BTW Freak…..
> 
> Very rarely will a fresh handle match the holes in a saw plate. The holes in the plate were punched by hand. Chain saw files work well at enlarging plate holes slightly, so a fresh handle can be installed on a plate.
> 
> - Poa


I was afraid of that as most old saw handles don't look machine made.


----------



## Poa

Freak….

The washers will have raised bosses for the slot in the stop. Not all washers will work with all stops. There were too different widths of the slots in the stops, 3/16" and 1/4", depending on the vintage of the box.


----------



## DLK

I picked up this Stanley 244 at a thrift store for $25. I think it is missing some parts. Can you help me figure out what is missing and where to find the parts (cheaply)? Alternatively I will be happy to sell t or $25 (mycost) + shipping.


----------



## Poa

Unfortunately Don, the part about "cheaply" probably isn't realistic. The box is missing all the cut stop components, except one rod. The missing rod is simply 5/16" solid round stock, so no big deal. But the No. 2 sized cut stop trees are hard to find, and rarely cheap. The No. 3 cut stop trees are far easier to find, and they ain't cheap, either. Also missing the coupler to join the two rods together. Missing the two stock rests, as well, as usual. Not cheap, people often get upwards of thirty bucks a pop for them. Missing the bridge bar that ties the two guide posts together. No big deal, 1/8" by 1/2" bar stock, drilled and tapped with three holes. But a big deal if you try to find an original. Smile man, the number 2 sized boxes are cool, but you paid less for the box than you would pay for any one of the parts you are missing. Thats why restored and complete old Stanley's are so danged expensive.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Jon. I should have left it. But I thought you would be disappointed. So … Kevin whats your address.


----------



## theoldfart

I'd help you out Don but i don't speak Stanley.


----------



## DLK

I was just going to donate it to you!

Anybody want it?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, my parts stash is mostly Langdon and Goodell stuff. There's got to be someone accumulating Stanley stuff. If no one speaks up you can send it here. PM coming.


----------



## Poa

Have no fear, Kevin, in the near future you will have plenty of Stanley stuff. Be careful, though, after you have restored and used a couple Stanley's, your GPs and Langdons might be gathering considerable dust.


----------



## Poa

This conversation reminds me…

The last three months or so, someone on Ebay has been dismantling mitre boxes, and listing their parts. And doing lots of it. In my opinion, that sucks. Because the frames are almost impossible to sell, so they will end up getting scrapped And, many of the parts will not sell, so they'll languish in a box, or get tossed.


----------



## 33706

Kevin: In regards to that dopey mitre box I have that doesn't have a detent for 22 1/2, here it is… it's just an old Craftsman, but I like it:


















I had to pull out my other ones to get pics of the Craftsman, so I decided the rest of 'em all needed to go air their britches:













































In addition to the Craftsman, here are a Stanley #358, two different versions of a #150, and a #50
They each have a correctly sized backsaw… somewhere!


----------



## theoldfart

Nice little group PK. I forgot to check the 22 1/2 indents but I have a glass of wine in hand so numbers could be challenging! I'll check later.


----------



## theoldfart

Jon, i'm not so sure about that. I have three, no four Stanleys in the que. Just keep on going back to the All Steels!


----------



## 33706

> Nice little group PK. I forgot to check the 22 1/2 indents but I have a glass of wine in hand so numbers could be challenging! I ll check later.
> 
> - theoldfart


Remember,* Kevin: * The lesson I've learned is that those little numbers refer to the degree of angle, not the percentage of alcohol content. I also think that's why you bought that that 180-degree mitre box.


----------



## theoldfart

You know PK, there is something appealing to me about running in circles; hence the revolving mitre box. The wine just adds to the experience.


----------



## HokieKen

I still haven't taken the time to sharpen the saw and get my 150 box into full service. I sure do like it sitting under my bench better than the Langdon 74. That Langdon is a beast though with the Summerfield-sharpened saw. I definitely don't regret investing in a miter box. Sometimes I can cut all my boards to length in less time than it would have taken me just to clear the crap off my tablesaw and put a crosscut blade on it


----------



## controlfreak

> Freak….
> 
> The washers will have raised bosses for the slot in the stop. Not all washers will work with all stops. There were too different widths of the slots in the stops, 3/16" and 1/4", depending on the vintage of the box.
> 
> - Poa


Thanks Poa, it looks like the washers are there but the arm is rusted solid to the guide track. Rather than beat it into submission I thought it best to place some Kroil on it and let it soak for a few days.


----------



## DLK

What's the cheapest and best way to ship a miter box?


----------



## Poa

Don….

I ship UPS ground. Packing is a matter of common sense, making sure the mitre box is padded enough it cannot move around in the shipping box, even if the UPS guys use it to play catch with.


----------



## bandit571

Last mitre saw I sent out was by FedEx, Ground…


----------



## theoldfart

PK, i checked fifteen mitre boxes, some going back to 1874 and they all have an indent at 22 1/2. Send the Craftsman back to Sears.

Starting in the 1800's it was a big deal to be able to do 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 sided figures. The early boxes are marked with that in mind. Degree marks came much later.


----------



## bandit571

So….what can you all tell me about this little contraption?









Brand name is BABCO….other than that?

The 2 wire wheels I've already put to use…..


----------



## 33706

> PK, i checked fifteen mitre boxes, some going back to 1874 and they all have an indent at 22 1/2. Send the Craftsman back to Sears.
> 
> Starting in the 1800 s it was a big deal to be able to do 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 sided figures. The early boxes are marked with that in mind. Degree marks came much later.
> 
> - theoldfart


Thanks, *Kevin*, for validating my suspicions! I would only use 22 1/2 degrees when cutting pie shapes for octagonal segmented lathe turning, and I haven't done too much of that lately. Come to think of it, I'd nowadays use a miter trimmer to edge angular glue joints, now that I have that capability.
What was Sears thinking, to eliminate that one detent in the first place, what did they save, 2 cents on each mitre box?


----------



## Poa

Even for a modern day finish carpenter, 22 1/2° cuts are essential. Particularly considering the popularity of bullnose corners on sheetrock. Base, chair molding, and crown most be cut with a third piece, covering the bullnose between the runs. Plus, 45° wall sections are very popular, especially for corner fireplaces.


----------



## NickyMac

Bandit, I know babco makes quite a bit of machining/mechanic type stuff. My guess (and what I'd use it for) is that it's a light duty clamp for welding miters at odd angles.

Set it to the desired angle and pop your pieces in for a couple tack welds.


----------



## Poa

Well, I have a new "favorite little Langdon".
Usually I pass on user modified antique tools. But this one? Impossible to pass up. The modification is well done, and really adds to the aesthetics of the box. I have two other Langdon No. 16 1/2s, one in good shape, as found, and another that I restored. Honestly, I think the other two will get sold off, and this one will be my keeper. Just a sucker for brass, I guess.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That. Is. Cool.



Congrats on the pickup, it's got a great home!


----------



## Poa

For those who have never seen one of the 16 1/2s up close, here's an idea of scale, posed with a Stanley No. 1.


----------



## controlfreak

Brass is really cool, that's a great one to get. I would love to know about the guy the modified it.


----------



## HokieKen

OMG Jon. You have a(nother) 16-1/2 AND a Stanley #1? You're so awesome;-)

I'd like a price for one of the 16-1/2s that you're gonna sell. It's too much for my budget. But I'd still like to know so I can have that closure :-/


----------



## theoldfart

Hoken, they are really quite a useful tool. Cutting small stock and dowels is way easier than pulling out the big boys.

You won't regret getting one.

Which one would you choose for small work?


----------



## Poa

I haven't figured a price yet for my small Langdons. I now have three 15 1/2s, and three 16 1/2s. I had a good 16 1/2 frame, and four chipped or brazed but usable swingarms. But just sold the frame a week or so back. Have a number of parts, including a set of 15 1/2 stops and fasteners, which I am hanging onto in the hopes of seeing another 15 1/2 missing the stops on the bay. Never know.

I have decided that I will sell two of the 15 1/2s, and two of the 16 1/2s, but not until I mate saws that have been professionally sharpened to them.

I know what I have in them, and other than this latest one, I have between 3 and 4 hundred in each of them. And thats before adding the cost of having the saws sharpened. So, I imagine I will be sitting on them for a while to get them sold off. I can't afford to lose money on them.

And, there has been a noticeable rise in value in these little boxes the last three or four years. They are definitely sought after, although I notice Jim Bode is having to sit on them longer than he used to. Even the GP No.1625s have gone up considerably. They actually seem to be scarcer than the Langdons.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, if I held that 1625 I could retire now! Damn, I am retired.

I would be a willing recipient of the 15 1/2 guides though..::;


----------



## Poa

I made up my mind a long time that if the stops leave my possession, you will end up with them, Kevin. But I am stubborn, I know that 15 1/2s are often missing them, and I hope I will run across a box to use them on. You know as well as I do that the instant those stops would get in the mail would be the instant a 15 1/2 missing the stops would show itself.


----------



## theoldfart

"You know as well as I do that the instant those stops would get in the mail would be the instant a 15 1/2 missing the stops would show itself."

That is how the universe works Jon.

Edit: BTW stubborn is good. Keep at it.


----------



## Poa

Bode currently has one small Langdon for sale, and has sold ten in the last few months. I don't think I have ever seen a GP No.1625 on his site.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/pages/search-results-page?q=Langdon


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I figured that was the case Jon. Now I have my closure ;-) It would be nice for the small work Kev but I have the 150 box and that'll suffice


----------



## Mosquito

I'm hoping to finally have the saw kit I'm needing to get my mini Langdon up and running soon… 
And by that, I mean I'm hoping I get the kit soon, but I'll probably not get around to making the saw itself for a while :-(


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, my mom gave me two of those clamps for my birthday when I was a youngin'. I don't think they have a Babco name cast in them. In fact, they have no ID marks. I've used them fairly often for wooden miter work, sometimes in combination with two fixed 90° ones for a picture frame. They are most useful for miter angles other than 90°, so octagonal, hexagonal, etc frame can be assembled. IMHO they are two fragile to be used for metal work. I have also used them to hold panels for cylinders in place. And while I haven't done segmented turning yet, they would be most useful there, too. A full circle assembly with rubber bands is much faster.

DanK


----------



## controlfreak

Been using Kroll and WD40 rust release but so far no luck. Any ideas?


----------



## theoldfart

CFreak, what is stuck?


----------



## Poa

Freak…...

50% auto transmission fluid/50% Acetone.


----------



## controlfreak

Damn, I forgot to post the picture again. its hell bouncing between the phone and laptop.


----------



## controlfreak

Here is the piece that is rusted up.
It night time and lighting stinks. Better pic later.


----------



## Poa

Try my suggested mixture, freak. It far better, I have found, than any retail priducts.


----------



## theoldfart

+1 on the acetone/TF mixture. Takes time but it has always worked for me. Plunge it into a jar full of the juice. Agitate every few hours.


----------



## controlfreak

> +1 on the acetone/TF mixture. Takes time but it has always worked for me. Plunge it into a jar full of the juice. Agitate every few hours.
> 
> - theoldfart


So, no harm letting it soak for a week or so?


----------



## HokieKen

Let it soak as long as needed freak. Next step is probably a torch so give it a good long soak


----------



## Poa

I have never used the mixture as a full soak. I have always used it in a spouted oil can, and put it locally to locked threads, letting it wick into penetrating.


----------



## siemensgeek

My Dad picked this up at a garage sale several years ago and gave it to me. Who built these for Montgomery Ward? How do you date it.


----------



## DLK

It's a stanley.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks more like a Stanley to me. The legs, the elevator stops, the name tag and the quadrant marker all look similar to the Stanleys I have. Maybe POA can chip in.

SGeek, can you post a pic of the other side of the posts?


----------



## DLK

Kevin, I agree. I was confused because I was working on both today.


----------



## Poa

Either a Stanley no. 2358, or 2346. Can't tell if that's a 4" or a 5" plate on the saw.


----------



## siemensgeek

I'll post more pictures next week. I'm out of town working this weekend. I'll measure the saw plate too.


----------



## DanKrager

Found this on FB marketplace at the same time another clone of different brand showed up on Ebay. Since this looked brand new and the prices matched $25 plus shipping I pulled the trigger. It was packaged so that any football team could have used it the whole game and it would still be intact. Styrofoam, packing paper wadded, pipe insulation, cardboard, bubble wrap, extra cardboard around the Styrofoam, two shipping straps under an entire outer coat of duct tape! It's not a big rugged Stanley 358 but it claims to be very accurate because it was "individually tested and we left the sawdust on it for you." is what the yellow sticker says. I can't see any evidence of use. That'll change. I've searched for a compound hand miter saw for a long time. Now I have one and I'm not a collector either!










Can't find where that little red hook laying in front goes or what it goes. Nothing fits.

DanK


----------



## Poa

As much as it pains me to say it, looking carefully, that looks like it might be a pretty useful box. Are you sure the mystery part does not go in the leg bosses as a stop for cutting very short pieces?


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…









Look like this?









Jorgensen?


----------



## DanKrager

There are no holes in the legs. Only four horizontal holes, one in each end and one on each side of the quadrant that are threaded for the clamps. I'm beginning to wonder if it's a stray piece from something else. Bu it does have the detent for 22 1/2°!

Very similar features, Bandit.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Stanley #358 was in use, today….









Whether cutting a single stick of 2×2, or…









Gang up 3 of them, to trim them all so they will match eah other….then, there is the simple stuff..









Saw was busy, today….had to keep me hydrated….









Then full length strokes add up….


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks to fellow LJ garethmontreal I now have a trip clamp for my 358 saw.










It's the first time that I've ever received mail addressed like this ;-)










'tis a good day for me.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a Stanley trip clamp but I also made a few out of aluminum stock. I actually really like the aluminum ones. For one thing, I can make them fit the saw and box so they work very nice together.


----------



## siemensgeek

I promised more pictures so…

The saw blade is 6" wide. There is a patent# on the front saw guide 1.952.518. I think this nails it down as a Stanley. The patent date is 27 Mar, 1934.
The saw guides have bearings on each side of the blade.
I'm missing the stock guides and length stop and its wing bolt. Both spur screws are present.

I am sure this miter box is not terribly old but how do you determine an age for a miter box?


----------



## theoldfart

Greg, in mitre saw speak you have a five inch saw. The height of the spine does not count. Odds are the box is a 2358. I'm not good at dating Stanley's but I'd guess 1940's -50's.


----------



## Poa

Looks like a Stanley No. 2358, if the saw plate measures 5" UNDER the spine. A 2348 if the plate is 4" under the spine. Made for Montgomery Ward. No idea how to date it. Maybe 30s a the bottom, 80s at the top. That was their range of manufacture.


----------



## siemensgeek

Okay, thanks.
It really doesn't matter what the age is. I'm not collecting (or is it hoarding?) tools for their value, I intend to use it. The price was right - free. I think with a little cleaning and sharpening it will be a good miter box. I should be able to make some workable guides to replace the missing parts.


----------



## siemensgeek

I was driving across Texas today to a job and stopped at an antique store for a quick look. There was a miter box buried on a shelf. The tag says it's a Jennings and it is marked down to $45. I didn't have time to dig it out for better pictures. Does anyone know anything about these. It is missing some parts. Obviously some modern bolts have been added to the top of the saw guides. Would it be worth $45. If it is I'll buy it on the way home. I don't "need" another miter box but I don't need a half dozen No.4 size planes, or 2 No 5-1/4 size planes or 2 No.7 planes or…....


----------



## DLK

Does the saw come with it? Who made the saw?


----------



## siemensgeek

Yes the saw is included. I didn't pull it out to look at the saw. Sorry.


----------



## DLK

It probably is a C.E. Jennings saw.

Charles E. Jennings & Co. New York, NY was a tool maker 1878-1923 and had 
Factories in Yalesville, CT, Port Jervis, NY and New Haven, CT.

I'm going to guess that if you collect these things it may be a good buy.

Did Stanley buy C.E. Jennings? (He bought R.J. Jennings.)


----------



## theoldfart

I'd guess it was made by Goodell. The posts are identical to the Greenfield model.

Edit. Just looked at pictures of my Greenfield model by Goodell Pratt and I'm comfortable calling yours. Greenfield. 
Where does it say Jennings?

Either way, in my opinion, you can't go wrong for $45. I can post pics to help with the restore. PM me if you have questions. That is only the second Greenfield I've seen in the wild. Great get Seimens geek.


----------



## siemensgeek

The price tag attached to the saw handle says it is a "Jennings cast iron tool". I had a long way to drive and had already been stopped too long when I found it. I'll have more time driving home so I'll pull it out and examine it closer.


----------



## theoldfart

The saw itself may be a CE Jennings.

I have two CE Jennings expansive brace bits, best I've ever used.


----------



## Poa

I agree totally that its a greenfield.

Kevin, didn't you find your greenfield in the wild? Thats how I found one of mine.


----------



## theoldfart

POA, yea I did.

Two front view pics of mine



















These should help you identifying yours.


----------



## Poa

So his is the 3rd, Greenfield, that we know has been plucked from the field.


----------



## theoldfart

Seems that way. Geographically it seems odd since they were built in Massachusetts and I never saw one there and I've found a number of less than common mitre boxes there.


----------



## siemensgeek

Okay, On my drive home from Pasadena, TX to Amarillo (10 hour drive) I stopped back in at the antique mall in Huntsville and I bought the mitre box. The saw is E.C. Jennings. The Mitre box doesn't have any identifying marks but it sure does look like a Greenfield. It's going to need some work!!

If you have one mitre box you're a user if you have 2 you're a 'collector'. It looks like I've found another slippery slope.








!


----------



## siemensgeek

I also stopped at another antique/junk store on the way home. What is this thing?


----------



## theoldfart

Seems to be another form of mitre cutter.

You've got a few things to do on the Greenfield. Send me your email address by PM and I'll send over the patent drawings. Odds are your missing the springs at the top of the saw guides. Also don't see the locking stud on the pivot bolt.

HB Rause Mitre Cutter


----------



## CaptainKlutz

NVM


----------



## siemensgeek

The HB Rause Mitre Cutter is located at an antique store in Quanah, TX. The store is '287 Antiques' and has a giant sneaker out front. I don't know the price of the mitre cutter.


----------



## theoldfart

The cutter was designed for printers, It cut lead strips and type.


----------



## siemensgeek

NVM indeed unless one of us is running a vintage printing press.


----------



## Poa

Type setters miter fixter.


----------



## theoldfart

There are chute planes for trimming type as well.


----------



## KentInOttawa

According to Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and restoring group on FB, LJ POA (Jon Hall) has passed away.

I, for one, will miss his knowledge and his willingness to help other LJs. RIP Jon.


----------



## bandit571

RIP Jon…..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That sucks. Terrific contributor, a wealth of knowledge, and generous too. RIP…


----------



## theoldfart

Jon knew his time was short. I will miss him.


----------



## JethroBodean

I posted this on the Mitre Box FB page:

It is with a sad heart that I tell you that I have heard that Jon Hall has passed.

Jon and I never met, but from my side we were friends. We'd argue/disagree on the littlest of things when it came to mitre boxes, especially Stanley's and GP's. I will miss him terribly.

I was able to reach out to him several times, as I'm sure many others were also were able to, over the last few months. Almost to the end he maintained his fire and spunk and desire to tell me I was wrong.

Though I only live one state away, I don't often travel to California. I had always imagined that I would look him up the next time I was down that way. Yet another dream never realized.

RIP, my friend.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, thanks for posting both here and on FB. It's been hard trying to get information on Jon.


----------



## tshiker

I'm at a loss for words.


----------



## TedT2

I was definitely sad to see this. I saw some guys discussing it on a FB page. He will definitely be missed.


----------



## DLK

I will miss him.


----------



## controlfreak

A wealth of information and knowledge has been lost. He will be missed RIP POA


----------



## HokieKen

One of the most knowledgeable guys it's been my pleasure to interact with. Extremely generous with his parts as well as with his bank of knowledge. I will certainly miss him. RIP Jon.


----------



## theoldfart

This is where I'm working currently. The mitre box was found at a flea market a number of years ago. The saw was acquired in a trade with POA, Jon Hall and restored by Bob Summerfield, Summerfi.


----------



## Mosquito

That is not at all what I wanted to hear :-(


----------



## Mosquito

For clarity, I was referring to the news about Jon, not Kev's post.

But that does look like a nice place to be working, and good stories to be working with. I still have to get my mini miter box saw finished… finally have the kit to do it after waiting a month and a half for it to ship, and 3 weeks for it to get here. Now if I only I had the time…


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, it made more sense to have the box up on the roof rather than running up and down ladders and scaffolds with twenty foot wooden noodles! The stock is only 3/4"x 2" so no need for a bigger box.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just catching up on this thread and saw the news about Jon. Oh my.

He will be missed.


----------



## Mosquito

I believe it Kevin, and I would 100% do the same lol. When I was using a rolling scaffold to insulate my shop, I'd get 4 pieces of insulation ready and stacked on the scaffold before I climbed up, since that's how many stud bays I could reach from the scaffold without moving it. No need to run around any more than necessary.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I agree with Mos, that is does look like a great place to be working.


----------



## HokieKen

The saw in my Langdon 74 box came from Jon and was sharpened by Bob too Kev


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, Bob's done a number of mitre saws for me. I think his eyes were a bit sore after I sent him three at once!


----------



## siemensgeek

I've been working on the Goodell-Pratt miter box. I've got it clean and assembled and it works really well.



















One thing I still need to correct is the saw guides. According to the patent drawings it is supposed to have a small spring at both ends of both saw guides so you can adjust the gap for different thickness saws. I haven't found springs yet and I really don't know how I'm going to get a spring short enough to fit. The OD needs to be 3/8" and the ID needs to be 1/4" but it has to be very short. As it is now I took a 9/16" OD rubber grommet and sliced it in half to make to rubber washers. This works but it isn't right. Does anyone have one of these mitre saws with the original springs? If so could I get a picture and dimensions? As you can see in the picture below I also need some 1/4"- 20 fillister head machine screws.


----------



## theoldfart

Greg, I've not seen a Greenfield with original springs. I'm guessing they may not have worked very well. Even the Greenfield on the Langdon reference site does not look like it has springs. I just have a portion of a hardware store spring on mine to give me a little adjustment.

Restoration looks great and having the gib infilled will give a much cleaner cut, nice job.


----------



## controlfreak

Nice looking restoration. How did you get it de rusted any shiny looking? I have one that I need to get started on.


----------



## siemensgeek

Kevin - According to the text for the patent:
"In the bar F, or "gib' as sometimes
termed in miter boxes, I provide in the
trough-like opening which runs from end to
end in the top of the bar, a strip at of raw
50 hide or other suitable non-metallic material,
so that after a saw has cut through a piece
of stock and comes onto the bar, the saw
teeth will not be injured by contact with any
metallic substance."

I have a 3" wide belt blank I bought at Tandy for making strops so I cut a strip to fit the gib. It's a little thinner than I would like but I adjusted the depth stops so the saw just touches it.

As for rust removal I use Metal Rescue. I like it because it isn't an acid. I don't have to worry about it removing metal or paint, unless the paint has rust underneath it. When you remove a part from soaking you will think you have ruined it because it will be very dark. A little rubbing with a brass bristled brush takes the dark layer off. If you have a part that you can't submerge they make a gel that you can apply and cover with plastic wrap. I haven't tried the gel yet. Home Depot has the liquid version already diluted with water but Auto Zone has a better deal on the concentrate that you dilute with water yourself. Auto Zone also has the gel.


----------



## bandit571

In search of that elusive Rebate….









Saw down to just nicking the line….make sure the saw is level…









A wide chisel and a mallet to remove the waste..









And repeat as needed…


----------



## DLK

Grabbed this MF 74A from a thrift store today:


















Looks complete to me. I belive I have a saw that will work with it.

Now I have 6.5 miter boxes. You guys are just evil. I am going to have to find space for it or sell a couple of boxes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice!


----------



## BlasterStumps

That box is sort of hard to find isn't it? Looks like maybe an all steel. I believe I see bearings in the saw guides? What is the knob that is just above the right front leg? Regardless, good score!


----------



## HokieKen

Excellent box Don! Especially for $35 )


----------



## DLK

> That box is sort of hard to find isn t it? Looks like maybe an all steel. I believe I see bearings in the saw guides? What is the knob that is just above the right front leg? Regardless, good score!
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Really I didn't know it was hard to find.

That knob slides in and out for holding the molding being cut against the fence. You can see one through the slot on the left side too.

*Smitty and Kevin*: Thanks, I only picked it up because of the activity on this site.

I don't know the value. But I see Jim Bode lists one for $495. But he has the original wooden box and a saw.

I'll give it a cleaning next, but not a repainting. Maybe later I'll do that.


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster, it's a Langdon Acme 74A. Size 2 1/2 so a five inch saw.


----------



## HokieKen

I think Blaster was asking about this thumbscrew Don:









Which I believe is used for the length stops but won't swear to it.


----------



## DLK

O.h. I miss understood. Yes it is used to hold the length stops.










which I don't have. *Can anyone send me the measurements on these?.*


----------



## drsurfrat

> Kenny, is $60 too much? I have *no* clue about miter boxes.
> miter box
> Still wondering about Bonanza. They have some delusional prices, but that's the sellers, not the site.
> - drsurfrat
> 
> I don't know enough about Stanley boxes to know what parts may be missing from that box Mike. Post it over in this thread and you'll get better feedback
> -Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!


Well, you're post above answered my curiosity, you left the price tag on yours.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL, that was actually Don's (combo prof) score. I do have a Langdon box but it's a 74C and I paid double what Don did to get it shipped to me but I have zero complaints. $60 for a good box is a good deal *AS LONG AS IT ISN'T MISSING ANY CRITICAL PARTS*. I think you have enough experience with vintage planes to know that buying a box with the intention of picking up the missing parts to complete it isn't normally a wise endeavor 

I don't know much about the Stanley boxes like the one you linked but there are several other fellas here who do and can give you some good advice about that one. Bandit? Smitty? Jethro?


----------



## controlfreak

I bought a second Goodall Pratt by mistake but it has the what I call the crown mold stop. I bought the stuff to hopefully break it loose but haven't had the time to soak it, maybe this weekend. The parts that get lost are the hardest to ever find. I would be okay if I never find the stop but what the heck, maybe I'll spot a third that has that part and cobble together a super miter box.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Kenny, is $60 too much? I have *no* clue about miter boxes.
> miter box
> Still wondering about Bonanza. They have some delusional prices, but that s the sellers, not the site.
> - drsurfrat
> 
> I don't know enough about Stanley boxes to know what parts may be missing from that box Mike. Post it over in this thread and you'll get better feedback
> -Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!
> 
> Well, you re post above answered my curiosity, you left the price tag on yours.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Mike - I paid about that price for mine, a 358, about 3-4 years ago. Mine came with tables, both of the brackets for holding down/in crown moldings, a good clean saw and very little rust.










I think that one you posted is a bit rich for what is there. As always, local conditions vary…


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked a Stanley No. 100 framing miter box. I'm sure this has already been asked and answered, but what say is paired with this box?

Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## DLK

> I picked a Stanley No. 100 framing miter box. I'm sure this has already been asked and answered, but what *SAW* is paired with this box?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help.
> 
> - Don Broussard


I can check mine tomorrow.


----------



## Johnny7

> I picked a Stanley No. 100 framing miter box. I'm sure this has already been asked and answered, but what say is paired with this box?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help.
> 
> - Don Broussard


22" x 4"


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, DonK and Johnny7.


----------



## DLK

> Thanks, DonK and Johnny7.
> 
> - Don Broussard


The saw with mine is 24" by 4".


----------



## JethroBodean

I don't have a Stanley 100 (and I'm crying in my pretzels over that) but I do have some PDFs of older Stanley Catalogs. The first catalog I have with the 100 is from 1934 and the description in the catalog says "No. 100 MITER MACHINE with 26×4 1/2 inch saw".

I also found it interesting that Stanley always spelled it Mitre when it came to the boxes. But for the No.100 they spell it Miter.


----------



## DonBroussard

Jethro - It looks like any 4" saw of at least 20" or so long will work. I think I have one such mitre/miter his saw. I expect that it'll need to be sharpened before I can make my first picture frame.


----------



## DLK

Figure 6 of the instruction manual is:










So it looks like it is indeed 22" by 4". (I will remeasure my saw.)

On page 3 it says:

A 14 pt. saw made expressly for frame work is furnished. Each saw is fitted to the machine.

Here is link where you can download the instruction manual.

I found no other particulars about the saw.


----------



## Mosquito

Planning to go look at/buy a Goodell-Pratt #1285 this evening… anything I should keep an eye out for? I already know it's missing the stock holder and length-stop, but otherwise looks pretty good


----------



## theoldfart

Bring a square with you and check the accuracy of the pre set stops.
I have some parts but not the ones you need.


----------



## Mosquito

Is there any adjustment to the pre-set stops?


----------



## theoldfart

I don't think so. A pin with a beveled tip comes up from underneath the gib and fits into notches on the arc.


----------



## Mosquito

Wasn't sure if there was any sort of lateral adjustment on the pin mechanism, but it doesn't seem like it.
Regardless, it cuts pretty close to 90 and 45, maybe 1/32" off over 6", but the saw definitely needs a sharpening.

Also came with the stand and had a piece that fit in the stock guide and length stop pieces, sort of like a zero clearance table, of sorts. I kind of liked that idea to support the cut all the way through


----------



## theoldfart

Flagged


----------



## Mosquito

not a solitaire fan?


----------



## theoldfart

Nope ;-)

The box looks good Mos, you'll like it. I've not seen a bed like that before, looking forward to you impressions of it.

Looks to be the same vintage as ControlFreaks Goodell.


----------



## tshiker

Nice box Mos! I like the stand too, very creative way of storing the saw.


----------



## controlfreak

> Looks to be the same vintage as ControlFreaks Goodell.
> 
> - theoldfart


It does look the same. I got to get going on the restoration of that box.

I am thinking that raised bed may be to compensate for a saw that is either to deep to avoid scrubbing the bottom or to shallow to reach the piece being cut. Does it have the depth of cut stops too?


----------



## HokieKen

Nice score Mos. Good luck sharpening the saw… I wasted a full weekend trying to do it then sent it to Bob S. on Monday. Once he got it so perfect though, I think I'll be able to maintain it going forward. Maybe your's doesn't need as much work up-front as mine did.

I thought about making a zero-clearance plate like that for mine. But I find that the trough in the gib does a really fine job of preventing tearout at the exit. Plus the steel textured plates on mine give a good flat surface that's dead square to the fence and have nice grip. I'll be curious to see if you find much advantage to that sacrificial surface.

In any case, that's a darned good score with that stand and should be a dang fine user


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm digging that stand and saw holster!


----------



## Mosquito

for $60 I was ok with the hour and a half round trip. That's the furthest I've driven in one shot since mid October when we closed the cabin down lol I think I burned as much fuel in that trip as I have since we stopped going to the cabin, though I've still yet to fill my car since :-D

At first I wasn't sure about the saw holster, and even though I only had it for 30 minutes before heading inside, I already like that it means the saw tote isn't sticking out like usual

Kenny, the saw is in good shape, teeth look good, it's just not as sharp as it could (should) be, I'm not too worried about sharpening it, it's more finding the consecutive shop time to get that done lol

I haven't tried the auxiliary platform so I'll reserve verdict until I do, but from a theory perspective I'm on the fence about it. I agree that having the textured bed may be more advantageous, as well as the factory setup between bed and fence, so we shall see


----------



## theoldfart

$60 including a good saw and stand qualifies as grand theft.

How much distance under the spine Mos?


----------



## Mosquito

I'll have to check, I didn't measure but I believe it's supposed to be a 5" saw. I'll have to do some more detailed looking when I get out there again. It is still tall enough to bottom out in the metal trough with quite a bit of the stops left though, so I'd have to imagine it's pretty close to that


----------



## theoldfart

Looked at the pics and you have what seems to be enough adjustment left. That saw is full size I'd guess, probably never sharpened! Also toss a fifty pound bag of sand on the bottom shelf, helps when your cutting the big stuff.


----------



## bandit571

3-1/2 years ago…fellow wanted $25 for this…I offered $15….









"SOLD" 

















With the M-F Triangle label….

Langdon 75…cleaned up nicely enough..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mos, the stand is worth $40+ easily. Good find.


----------



## controlfreak

Heck, I didn't realize the stand was part of the deal. Extra nice!

If I could pay what Bandit pays for tools I would need a much bigger shop. I did however find two Irwin clamps and a old Craftsman crosscut saw for $10 at a pawn shop yesterday. Bandit will say I overpaid I am sure.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I have one of the guide bars that holds the end fixtures.










It's been abused but it should give you a model to make new ones. Give a holler and I'll send it to you.


----------



## HokieKen

Is that steel Kev? If so, I can make you and 'Mos a couple if you need em.


----------



## theoldfart

It is steel Ken. I'm all set as far as my mitre boxes go. Mos just got a Goodell and it's missing a few guides.


----------



## HokieKen

Hollar if you need em Mos. Not even sure I need that one Kev has. A sketch with dimensions would probably do the trick.


----------



## Mosquito

the generosity is overwhelming. Thank you guys, I'll give it some thought. Kenny, I was going to send you a message as I had another idea/question I had for you.

I got the saw sharpened up last night, and it cuts like butter now. Probably not as good as a Summerfield special, but good enough for the likes of me lol


----------



## controlfreak

I have a work support that if I get unstuck I can either send Kenny to use as a template or I can measure. I would love to make the stop thingy but have on seen a picture of one further up the thread if that helps anyone. Other than that I mostly complete on one and a little less on another.


----------



## NickyMac

What specs are you all using for sharpening mitre saws these days?
I have a pair that could use a tune, and I believe both have the factory (disston) tooth pattern.


----------



## RWE

Bob Summerfield may pipe in, but these are his recommendations for mitre saws:

*A miter saw should be filed crosscut with 15 degree rake and 25 degree fleam.*


----------



## DLK

Well I think it depends on the maker. I have written sharpener notes on 2 of my miter saws :


Atkins: *15 degree rake and 20 degree fleam with 15 ppi*
Sears Kromeedge: *15 degree rake and 15 degree fleam with 14 ppi.*

I will manually check my other 4 after dinner.


----------



## bandit571

And yet…..Disston made theirs to 11 ppi for ALL their Mitre box saws? very interesting….


----------



## DLK

I would actually like something corser to use for fast cutting construction lumber. But then I do now have a Stanley 150 and I can use any saw with that.


----------



## bandit571

No.4 Miter box saws…per the Disstonian Institute…...


----------



## Mosquito

I generally stick to what's already there and work towards 15° slope if it doesn't need to be re-toothed. 
If I'm starting fresh, then I usually go 15° rake, 25° fleam, and 15° slope.

Why slope? Because I like it. Try it, decide if it's for you or not, I'm not going to recommend it, and I'm not going to recommend against it.


----------



## HokieKen

No idea if I like slope Mos. IF I ever feel like I can competently file rake and fleam at the same time along the entire saw plate, I may try it. So I'm never gonna try it.


----------



## Mosquito

lol it doesn't need to be perfect, sharp and ugly is better than perfectly dull


----------



## controlfreak

I need to try to re-sharpen one of mine since I found a printable guide. I can't remember but I think one is 20 degree and the other is 15. I think I will joint the top after taking a sharpie to the teeth to see if it helps me see better. I bought a jeweler's loop with various magnifications and a light. I keep trying with and without my bifocals but just can't get a good line on those small teeth. Also gonna try to mark the the tooth at the end of the saw vise. Every time I think I will be able to tell which tooth I stopped on but five minutes later I am still looking.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, yes that "last bright one" is never as easy to see once you move the saw for some reason lol I have that same problem


----------



## HokieKen

> the generosity is overwhelming. Thank you guys, I ll give it some thought. Kenny, I was going to send you a message as I had another idea/question I had for you.
> 
> ...
> 
> - Mosquito


Fire away Mos! I'm pretty well booked at present but Christmas will be over eventually ;-)



> I have a work support that if I get unstuck I can either send Kenny to use as a template or I can measure. I would love to make the stop thingy but have on seen a picture of one further up the thread if that helps anyone. Other than that I mostly complete on one and a little less on another.
> 
> - controlfreak


Not sure what stop thingy you're speaking of but if you can find one for me to copy or get me a detailed sketch, we'll see what we can come up with.


----------



## controlfreak

Kenny, I have only seen it a couple of times and spotted it in a picture here
Best I can determine is it is a stop bar for repeat cuts. There was someone that made one for a restored GP Miter box that had a green paint on a all steel that possibly Kevin said "looks like it jumped out of a catalog". It was beautiful and I intended on book marking it so I could refer back to it. It is possibly more work that is warranted for a "thingy"


----------



## HokieKen

Hey, good link CF! Unless I'm mistaken, this post gives me all the dimensions for the piece we were discussing that Mos' needs?

Is the long, 1/4" square piece the "thingy" you were talking about? Easy enough to make that with some 1/4" steel square stock and a torch to heat it and bend the end over. Guessing you need the little block and locking screw too? I can do those.


----------



## theoldfart

Will these pics help?


----------



## HokieKen

Will help confuse me Kev ;-) What's the piece with the round rod sticking up out of it?


----------



## theoldfart

For cutting crown molding and also for angles smaller than the quadrant can make.


----------



## Mosquito

Yes, the post you linked Kenny is what I'm missing, as well as the equivalent of what OF posted for the crown molding stop…

Kevin, if I were to pay for it, would you mind sending the piece you have to Kenny instead of me if he was willing to make some?

Kenny is our go-to machinist… sooner or later, he won't need to buy any more MF planes, because he won't be a woodworker :^)


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh. That makes sense. So those two pieces are interchangeable in the channel on the end of the box?


----------



## HokieKen

If you can just verify the dimensions in the post I linked, I can work off that. Won't need one in-hand.


----------



## theoldfart

Let me know if you need it boys, I can get it out same day.

Keep in kind that there are two different mounting bars. The early version is flat bottomed(like Kenny!) and the later iteration is a more voluptuous "V" shipped bottom.


----------



## HokieKen

I can't claim my bottom to be either flat or v-shaped Kev. Nor voluptuous for that matter.


----------



## Mosquito

Mine is the earlier flat bottom jeans, boots with the fuzz? Wait, that's not quite right.

Flat is indeed the style my box has. The link CF shared did have both (v was further down)


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> Kenny is our go-to machinist… sooner or later, he won t need to buy any more MF planes, because he won t be a woodworker :^)
> 
> - Mosquito


I may not have to buy *as many* MF planes Mos. I'm thinking the fee for your miter box parts and trailer parts might be a 209 plane ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

For the GP parts, is there any reason I couldn't drill and tap a hole in the other end of the steel bar for the stock rest rod to screw into? Unless I'm missing something, that would allow you to use either the length stop or the stock rest on either end of the box? And a second base bar would allow you to use the stock rest on one end and the length stop on the other at the same time I suppose? Or a stock rest on each end for longer stock?


----------



## controlfreak

That would make it a custom turbo box.


----------



## controlfreak

I didn't open the link with the dimensions until now. That is good information there. Kenny, If you are making these let ne know if I can get in on it and what I can do to compensate you.


----------



## HokieKen

Actually… looking back at that post again, maybe the stock rest threads right into the same 1/4-20 hole that the length stop uses. Can you verify or refute Kev?


----------



## HokieKen

> I didn t open the link with the dimensions until now. That is good information there. Kenny, If you are making these let ne know if I can get in on it and what I can do to compensate you.
> 
> - controlfreak


I will do them for you fellas. Just let me know which pieces you need and how many of each. It'll be after the first of the year, maybe even February, before I get around to making them.


----------



## controlfreak

> I didn t open the link with the dimensions until now. That is good information there. Kenny, If you are making these let ne know if I can get in on it and what I can do to compensate you.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> I will do them for you fellas. Just let me know which pieces you need and how many of each. It ll be after the first of the year, maybe even February, before I get around to making them.
> 
> - HokieKen


What? I thought Kenny machinery was like prime and it would ship today.

Let me have a whack at my frozen piece and see if I can get it out. Maybe I can see if the post has threads or is wielded to the bar.


----------



## HokieKen

It's kinda like Prime. You pay a $120 annual subscription price and get free returns and free two-day shipping on all eligible items. *Any items made of organic or synthetic materials are ineligible for Prime shipping and returns. Any other items are available at discretion of proprieter and customer has no recourse other than to kiss his own butt.*

I found one dimension missing from the length stop block. If Kev or someone can measure the height of the block for me, I can make all those parts. Then I can either make a stock rest that fits in the same threaded hole, add a second threaded hole at the other end for the stock rest, or just make a completely different block with the stock rest attached.


----------



## controlfreak

Very good, I forgot amazon has the subscription. I never see any bills because the misses takes take care of them for me. Which is why I setup a covert PayPal account for plane buying. She sits in the next office with both of my email accounts open and every time I buy something I get a big WTF, get back to work!


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, block height is 1/2"


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Kev!


----------



## NickyMac

Thanks for the sharpening tips, friends! 
Bandit, did you ever get a chance to check your Disston saws? 15/25 sounds pretty smooth, but I might give it a go.

ControlFreak, I have my wife running the bills department too… interesting how when I run over my "play money" for the month it's noted* right away*, but hers seems to slip right by! HA!

-Nick


----------



## bandit571

Ain't no way I can even see 11 ppi to try to sharpen them….what should be one tooth looks like four….best I can see to sharpen are the 7ppi and coarser Rip saws….

Sooo…i take mine done to Piqua, OH….to Chuck's Sharpening Service….and let his Foley do the work. But, yeah, Disston sold their No. 4 Mitre Box saws as 11 ppi. of course, Old Henry never said HOW they were sharpened back up….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Let me know if you need it boys, I can get it out same day.
> 
> Keep in kind that there are two different mounting bars. The early version is flat bottomed(like Kenny!) and the later iteration is a more voluptuous "V" shipped bottom.
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes, two kinds. I have the V bottoms. Kenny's is flat bottomed (earlier) type.


----------



## theoldfart

So maybe we should do a bottom type study. (snicker)


----------



## bandit571

"So round, so firm, so fully packed"?


----------



## HokieKen

My miter box is a Langdon so my bottom is red and rough.


----------



## controlfreak

> My miter box is a Langdon so my bottom is red and rough.
> 
> - HokieKen


I hear softer toilet paper helps with that.


----------



## Mosquito

good luck finding that…


----------



## bandit571

Too much "John Wayne Paper"?

My Stanley 358 is right now covered in Aromatic Red Cedar sawdust….

Three Stanleys, a Langdon, and a Jorgenson….One of the Stanleys came into the shop with a "Double Bottom"....old original was worn out, so someone just added a new right on top of the old….


----------



## HokieKen

I do have a Stanley 150 so I also have a hard oak bottom…


----------



## bandit571

As the Stanley 346 looked on arrival..double layer decking..









Even that was worn out…









has a new deck, now…









Ah yes, that disc…









And..now you understand how the disc was used….









Just might come in handy?









Was complete, with that saw….Barn Sale find…$15…...


----------



## HokieKen

*Regarding GP box parts:*

Y'all get your orders in pretty soon. It'll be a bit before I start machining but I am going to go ahead and order stock so I have it on hand when I do get ready.

Rather than "improving" on the original design, I'll just replicate the original parts. If you want to be able to use either the length stop or the stock rest on either guide bar, it's as simple as tapping another hole on the other end of the bar so if you desire that, just let me know.

To clarify nomenclature and what's on the menu, the following pictures will call out the names I'm using for different parts. For the guide bars, I can either make them to accept the length stop, the stock rest, or both. So make sure you let me know which "configuration" you want for those.



















*Stock Rest:*









A note on the length stops. I can make them but would rather not simply because that prevents me from being able to use small flat-rate boxes to ship this stuff. If I make them, I'm going to take some 1/4" square mild steel bar, torch the bend area and beat a short leg over to 90 degrees with a hammer. No precision or special tools required for this one. So, to save on shipping, I'd suggest you guys make your own. If you want me to make them though, no sweat as long as you don't mind paying the extra shipping.

Not sure on the cost of this stuff yet, I want to wait until I have a finalized list of what all I'm making so I can see what it's going to cost to order materials. I'll add up cost of materials, cost of tool wear on my milling cutters and taps then determine a price for each part to cover all that and my time. And to be completely transparent, I normally charge $30/hr for shop time but for fellas looking to complete/restore vintage tools, I'm gonna charge $10 cause I just plain enjoy doing the work and love seeing these tools put to use  And to give you an idea, I estimate I can make 4 of the flat bottom guide bars in an hour. So it'll cost you $2.50+ materials and tooling for one of those.

I won't know the cost for each of the parts until I know who all wants how many of what but I'll definitely inform everyone and get everyone's okay on cost before I spend any money on materials or anything.

So, *please PM me if you want any of these parts as soon as possible*. Let me know which parts and how many of each you want. And if you need guide bars, specify whether it's V-bottom or flat bottom and whether it's for the length stop or the stock rest.


----------



## controlfreak

Kenny,

PM sent


----------



## Mosquito

ditto


----------



## JethroBodean

As an aside from GP Stock Guides and Length Stop manufacturing; last week they weren't I ran away from home to take a mini in-state vacation. My wife and son took off the day before, so I was free to stop at every junk store HFH ReStore along the way. I was shocked to find that the Albany Oregon ReStore had about 14 old mitre boxes. Each one had a saw and they were all marked at $65, but they happened to also be 50% off.

The interesting thing was that all of the older ones were clear Stanley and GP boxes, but every one was tagged with a Montgomery Wards - Lakeside badge. I found that I did want them if tagged with the original manufacturer, so I didn't pick up any of them. Now of course I'm regretting that decision! At $32.50 I should have the oldest ones just for the saws! Oh well, live and learn.

















Presumably these all came from one source, Makes me wonder how they came by so many the were labeled as Lakeside.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow Jeff. I would have had a hard time leaving without at least one of those. I admire your restraint!


----------



## Mosquito

My first miter box was a Lakeside found at a local to the cabin antique shop.

Kind of neat they had so many of the same, and they almost all look different, you could have had an instant Lakeside collection going


----------



## controlfreak

I am guessing that it was someone's collection. I found it interesting that most of the saws have guards covering the teeth.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, nice find. The local ReStore here is even cheaper on mitre boxes, I bought three. Two were for parts and one as a keeper. Wound up deciding to restore both of the parts boxes! Resistance seems futile!


----------



## JethroBodean

I have a volume problem, I currently have at least 2 dozen sitting in the shop just waiting for my attention.

freak-I got the feeling that the guards were all freshly made. The wood on them all looked pretty new.


----------



## HokieKen

Vintage tools are a real rarity at the Restores around here. Miter boxes usually involve steel frame saws and plastic fences…


----------



## 33706

Here's a pic of a local listing for a Millers Falls mitre box. They want $40 (CDN) Is this one worth having? I hesitate to go down the Millers Falls rabbit hole…


















Your thoughts? About $30 USD. Oh, yeah, the locking lever clearly was welded once upon a time


----------



## theoldfart

If everything else is good I'd vote yes. My old eyes can't read the tag, what model and size is it?

Oh, and by Miller's Falls rabbit hole are you including Langdon, Goodell Mfg, Goodell Bros and Goodell Pratt?


----------



## 33706

> If everything else is good I'd vote yes. My old eyes can't read the tag, what model and size is it?
> 
> Oh, and by Miller's Falls rabbit hole are you including Langdon, Goodell Mfg, Goodell Bros and Goodell Pratt?
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Thanks, Kevin! I added another pic. I cannot read the label plate either. Parts for any of those mentioned brands are rare as hen's teeth north of the 49th parallel. I'm happy with my old Stanleys, some of which I actually use!


----------



## theoldfart

If parts are hard to come by then maybe not such a good idea.pp


----------



## HokieKen

If it wasn't for shipping PC, I'd pay for that box if you'd send me the depth stops off of it  I'm very fond of my Langdon box but, I can't recommend it if you are buying with the intent of completing it. It looks like it's probably a solid user as-is though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm guessing it's a 75. The weld tells me there are other parts that might be repaired that you cannot see. And with parts missing, it adds up to a pass for me. But then, the box bug hasn't bitten me nearly as bad as Kevin or Jethro; I've got seven boxes in the shop. Two of those are newer Craftsman tool-shaped objects that are screwed to the wall for dust collection purposes (at which each of them excel).


----------



## HokieKen

Here's the extent of my miter box collection


----------



## 33706

Thanks, guys! This is more of an act of preservation, I too have miter boxes that have been idle for years. Probably this is at best a spare-parts miter box for somebody who's trying to restore one like Ken. As Kevin suggests, Millers Falls has a very limited presence in Canada, just apparently not the focus of their marketing strategy.
I follower a blogger from Edmonton, who rescues the rarest of the rare '50s Dodges and Plymouths from the crusher, and now proclaims himself to be the owner of dozens of the ultra rarest cars…that nobody wants! A lesson easily learned.


----------



## HokieKen

*Okay fellas who wanted parts made for GP boxes.*

I priced materials and estimated time and tooling and came up with the following prices per part based on the quantities that have been requested. So, if you sent me a request please make sure these prices are acceptable. This covers cost and shipping of the material to get to me and my time and tooling. You'll be responsible for shipping the parts to you when the time comes. I trust you guys so I don't need anything up front, you can just pay when I'm done with the parts. Just want you to know what it's gonna cost you and make sure you're still in before I lay out my own cash for the materials.


Flat Bottom Guide Bars: $7.00 each
V-Bottom Guide Bars: $10.00 each
Length Stop Blocks: $7.50 each
Locking Screws (includes washer): $8.25
Length Stops: $6.75 each
Stock Rests: $4.50 each

So, for the full assembly for length stop with flat bottom, it'll be $29.50 each.
For the full flat bottom stock rest assembly, $11.50 each.
Add $3 for the assemblies with V bottom guides.

I have no idea what these things go for out in the wild but if my prices are too high, you won't hurt my feelings if you back out. Just do it before I buy material please


----------



## JethroBodean

Kenny - I have no problem with these prices if you don't. Is it too late to get in a couple of requests for myself? I'll have to look over my boxes. Will this be a one-time thing, or do you expect to handle additional requests later?


----------



## HokieKen

I'd prefer to knock them all out at once Jeff. But you can still get your order in  Just shoot me a PM with what you need.


----------



## bandit571

Have some 1/4" x 3/8" Ash slips to miter….only question is…









Which saw to use…..

Slips? They are thin strips glue into the bottom edge of a box….and hold the bottom panel in the box….when the box sides are a bit too thin to simply plough a groove. They get mitered into the corners, and glued in place…


----------



## theoldfart

Use the smallest box that gets the job done, the one on the right.


----------



## bandit571

Ok..as directed….Stanley #2246A has been set up where I can use it…









That is not Blue paint….frame is black in colour…finger clamped the box to the top of my tablesaw…









Bearings needed a spritz of 3in1 oil…..then things ran with just one finger doing the pushing….depth stops were too low…









Slipped a piece of sandpaper under the teeth, and reset the stops….









The blade on the Stanley 346…is 3-5/8" under the spine….compared to the 2246's exact 4"...hmmm









The Stanley # 358 was a bit busy…as a storage shelf….and the Langdon 75 doesn't do small, skinny parts all that well….hard to hold the part still….

The 2246 has all it's various stops and hold downs…seems complete….Saw is stamped as a Disston HK Porter…made expressly for a Stanley Mitre Box….

test cuts on the 1st "slip"...









3 more to do….


----------



## controlfreak

All prices look great Kenny I think I put in for two sets flat bottom.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll double check my list CF but I think you're right. I'll shoot you a message if not.

Happy New Years fellas!


----------



## HokieKen

CF, PM sent.

Giving one last call for the GP parts. I'm going to place the material order this week so speak now if you need anything 

I currently have orders from TOF, Mos, Jethro and Controlfreak.


----------



## controlfreak

PM sent, Thanks Kenny!


----------



## bandit571

Ok..what can you all tell me about this $15 saw?









4" x 26" 12ppi…..from Toronto, CAN.










Simpsons-SEARS, LTD?









WS Craftsman…..sucker is very SHARP….tooth line is 25" long. Handle is a plywood sort of thing…

Not sure IF the entire number is there, but…9….36184?


----------



## DLK

I have 3 of the kromedge miter saws. It is what I use with my MF-L miter box. There as good as anything.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Simpsons-SEARS, LTD?
> 
> - bandit571


It's a Canadian thing. Up here, we used to have Simpsons stores, then we had Simpsons and Simpson-Sears and then finally just plain Sears. Now we got nada. The Simpson-Sears stores were from 1952 until about 1972. See here).


----------



## HokieKen

Question for those who ordered parts for the Goodell-Pratt boxes. There are two types of screws that lock the length stop.

One has a lever arm to tighten/loosen:









The second has a slotted head for a screwdriver:









I planned to do these all with the lever arm but figured I'd ask instead. I can do them either way. If you want the lever arm, then do nothing. If you would rather have the slotted head, let me know. I'll knock $1.50 off each if you want the slotted head. I priced the lever arm version at $5 so if you want to change to slotted, it'll be $3.50 instead.

I have all the stock ordered and these parts are next in line for machine time


----------



## theoldfart

Lever better.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm fine with lever as well


----------



## controlfreak

I think the lever looks cool.


----------



## G5Flyr

Here is my only miter box. It works great so it IS the miter box of my dreams. It's from an eBay auction I won several years ago. Someone who knows more about old tools than I do says the saw is not original to the miter box. The saw plate says it is a Disston. The medallion also says Disston but I think the handle has too be a replacement. It looks too cheap to have come from Disston. Enjoy the pictures and let me know what you think.





































The data plate says it is a Goodell Pratt 1285A. I tried to upload a pic of the plate but the LJ algorithm says the file is too big.


----------



## controlfreak

I like that box! It makes me want to get both of mine all fixed up


----------



## NickyMac

Hi all,

I've got a Stanley 346 that's free to anyone who might want it. The rear post cracked and was enthusiastically brazed back on. I'm not sure it would be worth shipping the whole thing, but if someone needs parts…

Otherwise I'm in Portland, OR if anyone wants to pick it up.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice of you Nick. I can almost guarantee that somebody here is missing those length stops/stock rests


----------



## TedT2

Hello, I have this miter box and can't find any markings on it. Does anyone have any idea what it might be? Thank you


----------



## BlasterStumps

possibly a Craftsman branded, MF langdon 1124. Should be a good'n


----------



## HokieKen

Looks like one of the Proto boxes.


----------



## theoldfart

The gib locking mechanism does not look like either the 1124 nor the Proto. I think it's a bit earlier.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It has the shaped flat strap legs. Might also have ball bearings in the saw guides. Cant be sure on that though.


----------



## theoldfart

The gig and saw guides all scream Goodall Pratt.


----------



## HokieKen

I just can't find any other model that has that bed. Maybe a frankenbox?


----------



## TedT2

Is there anything else I could take pictures of that would help? I'm lost unless I can find a tag…lol.


----------



## HokieKen

Does it look like there may have been a nameplate may have been riveted or adhered on the front guide at some point Ted.


----------



## NickyMac

Looks like a GP 1124A, but missing the name plate.

https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/gallery/goodell/all-steel-1124a/


----------



## theoldfart

I think Nicks right. It has the same locking arm and decking. Nice job Nick.


----------



## HokieKen

Looked right to me at first but after looking more, the deck doesn't look quite right. Looks like Ted's has more interrupted through cuts but the 1124a looks lime the through cuts are continuous. But I wouldn't swear either way with the pics available.


----------



## BlasterStumps

would you say it is an all-steel or an iron box? or, combination of both?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Keep thinking we ought to do a "Best rust hunting finds" post now and then. I'm a bit bored, eh?


----------



## Mosquito

Don W has an active blog post that's basically that


----------



## TedT2

Thanks for the input. I will try to get more pictures of it soon. Unfortunately, it is in my storage unit and I haven't been there for a few days.


----------



## 33706

Available locally, a Millers Falls Langdon Acme #75, 2 1/2" box with a Warranted Superior 26" saw. $180 CDN.

*Should I buy, or pass on this?*


----------



## theoldfart

Looks to be in great shape. The saw has a good tooth protector so someone seriously valued the box. I can't comment on the speculative value but as a user I'd go for it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks to be a very nice mitre box. That age box should have roller bearings in the saw guides. Price? Well, I guess that is always debatable. I'd say go for it if the saw is decent. Your might not find one much nicer than that one.


----------



## BlasterStumps

poopiekat, I believe you could retrofit that style box with length gauge attachments from the new style boxes. Just would have to drill one hole each end of the box and tap for the thumb screws. I think : )


----------



## 33706

> poopiekat, I believe you could retrofit that style box with length gauge attachments from the new style boxes. Just would have to drill one hole each end of the box and tap for the thumb screws. I think : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Thanks, guys!
Knowing the classifieds as I do around this neck of he woods, I'd bet that eventually the price will come down. Also, it seems to be missing a detent at 22 1/2 degrees. This is kind of a big issue for me, my next outdoor project will be a utility shed with a gambrel roof, and I'd be cutting bi-sected 45-degree joints all day long. I've got a couple of boxes already that lack this feature. Mostly I want an old, name brand box with all the bells and whistles, so that I can start selling off all the others.


----------



## HokieKen

That's a great box PK. $180 seems a bit steep but it's really dependent on location too.


----------



## 33706

> That's a great box PK. $180 seems a bit steep but it's really dependent on location too.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks, Ken!Come to think of it, $180 CDN is $138.21 US dollars. I'd really like to pay ~ $100 US, or the Canadian equivalent. They take up wayyy too much room. Heck, I could buy another righteous Union #8 plane for those dollars.


----------



## theoldfart

PK, I have a couple of boxes that might work for you. We can split shipping and no charge on the box. I'm headed out right now, I'll look at them and get back to you tomorrow.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm just bored enough right now that if that langdon 75 mitre box was available in my area, I would have already bought it just to have something new to play with. : ). Besides which, I have had my eyes peeled for some time now for that particular model with the newer saw guides. Mine doesn't have the ball bearings. Same same otherwise I believe. Can you tell, I'm bored.


----------



## HokieKen

Ditto on the bearings Mike. I have the guides with no bearings. Hasn't been an issue though… I lime the length stops on the newer models too. Though to be honest, I like the stock rests on mine enough to stick with it 

I've pretty well quit shopping miter boxes. I have two solid users that I like. I would love to get hands on a Langdon 15-1/2 or 16-1/2 though…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> I would love to get hands on a Langdon 15-1/2 or 16-1/2 though…
> 
> - HokieKen


I used to think that. Now I know neither want me, so I've stopped considering them. (what? an old tool I don't want? I know, call me looney…)


----------



## theoldfart

;-) looney


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

There. I feel better now. lol


----------



## theoldfart

Finally


----------



## HokieKen

Only way I'm getting one is if I stumble on one at an estate sale or something where the seller doesn't know what they have Smitty. I've come to the conclusion that I'm out of my depth on Ebay…


----------



## HokieKen

I just saw these in the listing for a Langdon 74 box. Are these the length stops that came with the boxes originally? I don't think I've seen them anywhere before.


----------



## 33706

> PK, I have a couple of boxes that might work for you. We can split shipping and no charge on the box. I m headed out right now, I ll look at them and get back to you tomorrow.
> 
> - theoldfart


Hi, Kevin,
I'm good, I have a vintage Stanley that I like, and I already have a dozen or more that take up far too much room.
Appreciate the offer, from one hoarder to another! TY.


----------



## theoldfart

Any time PK


----------



## Mosquito

> I would love to get hands on a Langdon 15-1/2 or 16-1/2 though…
> 
> - HokieKen


Come visit sometime 

I still have to make the saw for mine. Have the kit, just not the time at the moment


----------



## KentInOttawa

Along with moving into my new shop comes a rationalization of what is being moved in and where things will be stored. One of these two saws didn't make the cut. Care to guess which is going away? (Hint: it doesn't have a tail).


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ouch.

Hope it finds a good new home!


----------



## BlasterStumps

New trip:


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Along with moving into my new shop comes a rationalization of what is being moved in and where things will be stored. One of these two saws didn t make the cut. Care to guess which is going away? (Hint: it doesn t have a tail).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Kent


Fixed it. There's 30-ish pounds that I'll never move again. 8-D (Error in my initial post - the tailed beast is going/gone)


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster, clever!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Works smoother than my original Stanley trip clamp, at least on this old sears saw. I like it for my first attempt. 
: )

It just slides on the spine. Quite simple to make actually.




















> Blaster, clever!
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## HokieKen

V-bottom guides you make the rockin' world go 'round.


----------



## theoldfart

Wait, the V's on the wrong side!


----------



## HokieKen

You'll just have to turn your box upside down Kev.


----------



## HokieKen

Mike, that trip clamp is slicker than eel snot!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kenny. I thought I would share the idea for the trip so hopefully other people with a Stanley MB but no trip clamp will give it a try. Really does work slick.

Looks like the guides you are making will be the bee's knees. I nearly bought one of the boxes that those type of guides will work on. Way cool.


----------



## HokieKen

Kev or Jethro - can one, or even better both of you measure the height of your V-bottom guides where the ??? is for me? Kev measured the flats on the sides for me before at 1/8" but in another post, it is dimensioned at 1/4" and doesn't appear to be a mistake when I scale the picture. I don't want to get these wrong for you fellas and I assume the height is what ultimately matters since that's what determines where the length stop sits relative to the deck. So if you all can verify the height you need, I can make certain that I get these right for your respective boxes.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny. I'm getting 15/32.










Edit, and it's the same for both bars that I checked.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Kev! That comes out pretty close with 1/8 flats so I feel better now 

Also, kudos for being able to read a Vernier scale ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Out of curiousity, does that leave you just a hair over 1/2" across the top flat Kev?


----------



## JethroBodean

I'll check mine when I get home. SOME of us still have to drive into work! ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

No worries Jethro. I still have to drive into work too so I won't be doing any work on these until this evening anyway ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, work?

Not any more!

Kenny, interestingly one reads 15/32" and the other reads 1/2" so maybe their tolerances were +-1/32". My vernier skills are extremely rusty: haven't used them since the mid '70's!


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> Kenny, interestingly one reads 15/32" and the other reads 1/2" so maybe their tolerances were +-1/32". My vernier skills are extremely rusty: haven t used them since the mid 70 s!
> 
> - theoldfart


So I'm gonna assume the length stop doesn't sit exactly on top of the deck then? I just want to make sure that I don't give you guys a length stop that ends up sitting lower than the deck. Unless you tell me otherwise, I'm gonna go with the 15/32 height which should give about 1/2" wide flat on top. If it comes out to be wrong, I'll remake em for you guys.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, mine just skims the deck.


----------



## JethroBodean

Neither of my length stops actually touch the deck. As Kev says, they just barely skim over the top.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, that's disconcerting then ;-) I'm going with the 15/32" height Kev measured. That's the safest way I can think of to do it. Then I'll just let the rest of the dimensions be whatever they are. I assume the bottom of yours is a sharp corner Kev and not flattened off?

Jeff, if you can measure yours tonight and make sure they're roughly the same as Kev's, I'd appreciate it.

That leaves me working to these dimensions. So speak up if you think something is amiss!


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, both are pointedly the bottom.


----------



## HokieKen

Good, that makes it much more precise!


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm…out and about this afternoon…









High Tech? 









Yes, the saw did have a "Mustang" logo on it's blade…..


----------



## HokieKen

I just cleaned my girl up now all you GP fellas are making her dirty again!


----------



## HokieKen

I also remember now why I always rolled my sleeves down and buttoned my shirt up when I worked on a mill for 8 hours a day. Steel chips flying off a 3 inch mill are friggin hot!


----------



## JethroBodean

Kenny
So my only set of V guides have different heights between the Stock Guide and the Length Stock Guide.

The Length Stop Guides are 0.459" 
The Stock Guides seem to change along the length, 0.480 in front of the post and 0.486 at the other end.

These shots are showing the two guides, end to end.



















And here are the two different guides.



















And lastly I've just realized that the 'U' block for the length stop actually fits into a 'trench'. The trench keeps the block in-line with the rail as you tighten the screw.










The U blocks on the flat bottom Guides make use of a pin to keep the block in line. But that's for the next post.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thinking about printing a length stop tree. Wasn't there a comparison of the sizes of trees for the different frame boxes on the forum here sometime back? Anybody remember seeing such? I'm looking for dimensions that would be critical for printing a tree for the 358 box. I have one for the 246 box.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I also am thinking about printing a couple of the discs to put into the table of my 246 so that I can mount a moulding stop to be used as a length stop either side of the saw. Anyone have the diameter handy of one of those discs?


----------



## JethroBodean

Mike - I'm about 99% sure I used a 1" forstner bit when I installed mine on the new bed. You spoke of installing one of the washers on both sides of the saw, I trust you know that originally they were only on the right side.



















As for the trees for the later length stops; I do remember a post discussing 2 different sizes. I'm pretty sure Jon Hall (RIP) was part of that discussion. I can't swear to it but I think one size was for the #2 frames and the taller one was for both the #3 and #4 frames. I think I have just one of each, I'll have to check later this week to see if I can give you measurements.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kenny 
Here is a comparison between the flat bottom and the V bottom Length Stop Guides. You can see that the Flat Bottom 'U' block is shorter than the V bottom block. I noticed that the 'arm' on the screw is shorter and lacking the ball of the flat bottom. You can also see the pin in the block and the pin hole in the guide on the flat bottom.


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No, 346…1" forstner bit..



























The "Before"......


----------



## HokieKen

Oh good grief…

Thank you for the comparison Jeff! Now I'm thoroughly mucked up ;-) I am making all of them to use the pin for alignment unless you object.

Can you do me one more favor and put the U-block on the V-bottom guide and measure the height from the bottom point of the guide to the bottom of the slot where the length stop sits? I think if I have that, I'll have everything I need I think to get it all squared away.


----------



## JethroBodean

> Thinking about printing a length stop tree. Wasn t there a comparison of the sizes of trees for the different frame boxes on the forum here sometime back? Anybody remember seeing such? I m looking for dimensions that would be critical for printing a tree for the 358 box. I have one for the 246 box.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I think post "#4281 posted 06-24-2020 06:38 AM" might be the one you are remembering.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Thinking about printing a length stop tree. Wasn t there a comparison of the sizes of trees for the different frame boxes on the forum here sometime back? Anybody remember seeing such? I m looking for dimensions that would be critical for printing a tree for the 358 box. I have one for the 246 box.
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> I think post "#4281 posted 06-24-2020 06:38 AM" might be the one you are remembering.
> 
> - JethroBodean


Here is a link to post #4281 on page 86.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thank you all for your help on the length stop trees and discs. Helps a bunch.


----------



## CL810

Were these discs discussed earlier and I missed it? Does anyone remember about when it was discussed? I am really interested in adding this to mine. THANKS!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit just moved his from the old table to the new table I think. You can see it in the post just above. Looks like a 1" x 3/16" or so disc with two screw holes and a threaded hole for use with the thumbscrew.

I was thinking of printing one but then I realized that all I need really is a threaded insert installed in the table and it should do the same thing. Just needs to hold the moulding stop as shown above. The metal disc might be a tough thing for me to make. Just the same, I'm still looking for a 1" piece of round stock to cut some slices from. : )


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know that they've been discussed Andy but they were standard equipment on some of the Stanley boxes. Functionally, you could put a threaded insert or tee nut in your deck and be good to go.

*Edit to add:* I can make those disks for you fellas if y'all want em. Just give me dimensions and thread size. Or if you want to make your own Mike, I have plenty of round stock that I could cut to length and send you. It would only take a couple extra minutes to pop the holes in though ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, is this the dimension your looking for?










If so I'm getting 3/4"


----------



## JethroBodean

> *Edit to add:* I can make those disks for you fellas if y all want em. Just give me dimensions and thread size. Or if you want to make your own Mike, I have plenty of round stock that I could cut to length and send you. It would only take a couple extra minutes to pop the holes in though ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny the OD is 1". You use the Stock Guide Thumb Screw and the Stock Guide Clamp. So the inside size and thread just need to match the Stock Guide Screws. There are also two counter sunk hole for the screws that secure the disk to the bed.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny, is this the dimension your looking for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If so I'm getting 3/4"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


That's the one Kev. Gracias! Although I'm a bit less impressed with your Vernier prowess now. That's clearly 47/64 and not 3/4 ;-P


----------



## theoldfart

Too many digits for my aged brain!

Besides, woodworking does not recognize 64'ths.


----------



## HokieKen

Jeff - appreciate that info. I don't have one of the boxes that use that though so somebody will have to tell me what size the thread is. Also, what size screws secure it. And how thick it is.

If anybody needs one/some of those disks, just hollar. It's a quick and easy job.

Also sent you a PM this morning about the GP parts Jeff. Kev got me the dimension so you can just let me know about the other stuff


----------



## HokieKen

Kev, I happen to know a guy with an abundance of dial calipers and no fractional Vernier ones if you were interested in a swap. Same brand even ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Have to think about it. Dial seems so progressive! I'd loose my retrogrouch credentials.


----------



## HokieKen

LOL. In all seriousness, if you think in fractions, you're better off with what you have there. I'm conditioned to think in decimals though so the dial works for me.


----------



## theoldfart

I guess you could say I'm fraction-friendly!


----------



## CL810

I am not wise in the ways of mitre box kung fu. (Hangs head in shame.)



> I don t know that they ve been discussed Andy but they were standard equipment on some of the Stanley boxes. Functionally, you could put a threaded insert or tee nut in your deck and be good to go.
> 
> *Edit to add:* I can make those disks for you fellas if y all want em. Just give me dimensions and thread size. Or if you want to make your own Mike, I have plenty of round stock that I could cut to length and send you. It would only take a couple extra minutes to pop the holes in though ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny thanks for the offer on the discs but I made one. It's rather crude and larger than it should be but the thumb screw will thread in it. Now I am debating as to whether or not to inset it in the table of the 246. Might have to have a think on that.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks good from here Mike! As long as it works, I'd stick in there


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here is a "duh" thing that I finally figured out: When messing around with a mitre box, raising the saw up in the elevators then playing with the trip, always, always, always keep a piece of wood on the table so that when you drop the heavy mitre saw, it only impacts the piece of wood and doesn't come slamming down on the back set of stops. DUH! I'm danged lucky I didn't break the swing arm. Couldn't see any damage but who knows what it did. : (


----------



## HokieKen

Might want to keep your hand out of there too Mike…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Don't look so good but I have the disc in place.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yes, don't want to get a digit removed.



> Might want to keep your hand out of there too Mike…
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

Looks pretty good from here Mike. You could always repaint it or sand the paint off and polish the steel up if it don't give you the warm fuzzies ;-p I'd probably get some straight slotted screws if it were me. Phillips head screws just don't look right on vintage tools.


----------



## theoldfart

All in favor of banning Phillips head screws say AYE.

Mike it does look good and more importantly it does what it was meant to do.


----------



## HokieKen

AYE!


----------



## theoldfart

That makes two, one more vote and the motion is carried.


----------



## HokieKen

AYE!

I can vote twice, right?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think a new table for the 246 might be a good idea since it has some pretty good grooves cut in it. I'm on the hunt for a piece of wood. I might find some flat head slotted screws by then. : )


----------



## controlfreak

> AYE!
> 
> I can vote twice, right?
> 
> - HokieKen


Half the country did, why not?


----------



## theoldfart

Time for tonnage. This is the biggest MF made. Takes a six inch saw and numbered 13 thru 16 depending on saw length. And it is a beast!


----------



## Mosquito

lol AYE I'm all for getting rid if Phillips. When it's something I care about aesthetics, I definitely look for other options first


----------



## HokieKen

I've always liked the fence on those Kev. Not enough to pay for one but they sure are sexy  Looks like you're using a good portion of its capacity there.

LOL CF


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, it's at it's narrowest setting.!

Did not pay much for it, CL find.


----------



## HokieKen

Lucky dawg.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh yea


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Aye.


----------



## theoldfart

OK, Smitty makes three, we have a mandate! A moral obligation to stamp out Phillips head screws.


----------



## HokieKen

Okay Kev. I think they're generally forged but if you want to try stamping them, we'll give it a run!


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, you first


----------



## controlfreak

Only flat heads going in my Moravian bench, four to be exact.


----------



## BlasterStumps

An old 150 that I cleaned up a while back.


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful Mike! I have a 150 I overhauled but sti haven't taken the time to touch up the teeth on the saw Bandit sent me for it and get it into permanent service.


----------



## HokieKen

Lil flat-bottom love today ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Impressive, looks like it could have been made in Western Massachusetts!


----------



## HokieKen

Pffft. Western Mass wishes.

;-P


----------



## theoldfart

. Yea, right!


----------



## BlasterStumps

wow, nice work!


----------



## G5Flyr

Beautiful mitre box AND saw Mike. I love the handle!


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Beautiful mitre box AND saw Mike. I love the handle!
> 
> - G5Flyr


+1 from me, too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I actually believe that beautifully rehab'd No. 150 works better than mine… :-(


----------



## HokieKen

Flat bottoms are in the bag. That was the easy part…


----------



## theoldfart

^ how about you go away?

Flagged


----------



## HokieKen

Dang. What'd I do to you Kev?

(It'll read that way after the spam post is removed ;-))


----------



## theoldfart

Sneaky little …....


----------



## HokieKen

15 1/2 box went out of my price range again :-(


----------



## theoldfart

They tend to do that.


----------



## HokieKen

They tend to do ONLY that…


----------



## Mosquito

If I had a saw for my mini miter, I'd post a picture using it…


----------



## HokieKen

If I had a Pune Escort, I'd post a picture using it.


----------



## Mosquito

Hahahaha nice


----------



## HokieKen

I think you and I were the only two up early enough to appreciate it Mos ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

probably, surprised she didn't wipe your your comment on it too, seems to happen often :-D


----------



## Mosquito

This might be of particular interest to Kevin, but I have a pair of Seavey/Stearns miter boxes/guides (This is Kev's, I stole/borrowed/linked his picture from Don W's forums)










And while that obviously works (and how I'd been using mine), I came across this in a Keen Kutter (surprise surprise) catalogue I was looking through for something in another thread. The keyholes on the front of the casting were what threw me off at first, but this makes total sense now. Seems as though the intention is you bolt it to the workbench so it can move up and down, and then use it attached to the bench


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, the marketing blurbs I've seen tout the ability of a trim carpenter using it up on a ladder. Yours is the first bench application i've seen, pretty cool and common sensical.


----------



## Mosquito

yeah, in all the research I had done on them before I bought them and while I was waiting for them, I never came across anything that indicated it would be used like this either. I'm keen to try it out, though not to up on the idea of mounting it directly to the bench, so may get a scrap board to try it out


----------



## Mosquito

Planed and jointed a scrap 2×8 so it is square, and though I need different screws, gave it a spin. Limited exposure, as I only made 5 or 6 cuts, but seems to work fairly well on small stock, haven't tried a 2x yet


----------



## Mosquito

~1-1/8" x 1-7/8", both orientations of the board, seemed to work just as well. I kinda like it this way. Might need a different take on the "saw bench" lol


----------



## HokieKen

I've often thought one of the Langdon Star guides would be handy. One of them hinges so you can do compound angles. Now I have something to warch ebay for since I ticked my MF 24 and Stanley 113 off the list in the past week ;-)


----------



## DLK

Hi Mos. Interesting. It seems that you have secured the scrap 2 by 8 to the bench using the leg vice on one end and a supported the the other end with block pinned with a hold fast in a leg hole. Fair enough. But why not just lay the 2 by 8 flat on the bench securing with hold fasts, between dog or possibly clamps? Now screw the "miter box" into the edge of the 2 by 8. If you add metal cleats to the underside of a 2 small section of 2 by 8 (or even 2 by 4) you could clamp it down and and not have the clamps interfere with the molding being cut. At the jobsite I suppose you would just screw the 2 by 8 to saw horses or clamp to a picnic table, etc.


----------



## Mosquito

Don, the easy answer to that was this was just a quick test to try out the concept. It wouldn't be my permanent solution, but more or less anything beyond this would have required more time and effort. I also liked that this got it up a little higher. If I had enough space to store it, I would consider building a pseudo torsion box that I could throw on the bench top and hold with holdfasts, and just stash somewhere else when not in use. Sort of like a bench top moxon

The scrap 2×8 I had was too long to fit between bench dogs on my bench and didn't feel like cutting it down. I would have had to spend more time cleaning off the whole bench to fit that 2×8 on it whereas this let me keep everything where it was, or just move it out of the line of the saw (saving time).

I was trying to simulate what was in the catalog image, and I wanted to try the larger bearing face on the front rather than the top. If I were going to make it a more permanent fixture on the bench, I'd probably find some machine screws and throw a pair of recessed threaded inserts in the face of my bench. Then I'd just use a longer flat board on the bench top underneath it.


----------



## HokieKen

Mill work is done. The little blocks for the length stops were so much fun that I made them twice. It definitely wasn't because I misread the centerline between the locating pin and the screw hole wrong on the first batch.


----------



## theoldfart

Salivating!


----------



## 33706

*Today's latest acquisition:*






















































It's a Langdon (Millers Falls) #75 box, size 2 1/2. Came with a 26" 'Warranted' backsaw. I'm not sure what size "2 1/2" means, was there bigger models of this? Maybe it means 2 1/2 tons, I've never encountered a miter box this heavy!! Hope you like it!


----------



## theoldfart

PK, 2 1/2 in Langdon speak is a saw with 5" under the spine. The biggest is a size 3 with 6" under the spine.

Also, I prefer a real heavy saw for mitre boxes. It makes for quicker sawing.


----------



## 33706

> PK, 2 1/2 in Langdon speak is a saw with 5" under the spine. The biggest is a size 3 with 6" under the spine.
> 
> - theoldfart


Thanks, *Kevin!* Guess I've gotta hit the books now, I want to make this unit front and center in my workshop.


----------



## theoldfart

PK, this is the best reference site for Landons, Miller's Falls and Goodell.

https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/


----------



## HokieKen

Beautiful box PK. That's my main box too. It's a workhorse


----------



## 33706

Thanks, all, for the kind comments.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, PK!


----------



## bandit571

My Langdon 75, 2-1/2 has a 5" x 30" saw on board….Even has the M-F triangle label on the saw's handle….









Even came with that stand..


























Cleaned up nicely enough….


----------



## 33706

Ty for all the great responses! Great looking miter box, Bandit! Now I have a line on another Langdon box, might be a #75, might be good only for parts, we'll see.


----------



## HokieKen

Kev, is your baby Langdon a 15-1/2 or 16-1/2? If it's a 15-1/2 any chance I could get you to pull your Verniers back out and give me some detailed dimensions on these parts?









Mos' box is missing them. I'd like to make him some so he'll shut up about wanting me to take the box off his hands. I keep telling him that I simply don't want it. Even if he does pay for the shipping. (Let's see how my reverse psychology works)


----------



## Mosquito

haha, I come here to post the question if anyone has those parts handy, and look what I find  Thanks Kenny.

And I would hate to burden anyone with my 15-1/2. It's missing the stops and has no saw


----------



## theoldfart

Alas, my 15 1/2 is missing those stops.


----------



## HokieKen

Fine Mos! Cripes! Just quit yer bitchin' and send it on. Grrrr. ;-p

Based on these pics which I got from this page (they're 1/2 way down the page and were provided by Jon Hall RIP) I imagine we can sort it out if you guys are wanting some repro parts.


















First thing to do is probably to determine what size threads are in the top and bottom guides for the screws.


----------



## theoldfart

I have dimensions it'll just take a little time to find them. I also have the screws and nuts.

I was supposed to get a set from Jon but he passed before he could make it happen.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Let's remake the entire 15 1/2 and or 16 1/2 boxes. I'd be happy with a couple repros. : )


----------



## Mosquito

I noticed that bit too Kenny :-(

Makes you wonder what the fate of his collection is/will be…


----------



## HokieKen

That'd be perfect Kev  That'll keep Mos from having to measure stuff and scale photos to get the dimensions.

How exactly does it work? The bottom screw obviously doesn't fix the guide and must just be for alignment. My assumption was that the top screw is the same and the only thing that is held fixed is the block with the thumbscrew. Then you set the block for the saw height with the top screw bottomed out in the slot? Mos' thinks the top screw holds the gauge tight to the top guided and that's how you set it for the saw height. If that's the case though, I see no reason for the block/thumbscrew to be adjustable if they are always in the same position?


----------



## Mosquito

Mike, there are a lot of things I'd love to do if I had the capacity (time, physical, and mental) to do casting/foundry work, or even design to have someone else who does casting


----------



## HokieKen

> Let s remake the entire 15 1/2 and or 16 1/2 boxes. I d be happy with a couple repros. : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Making my own box the size of the 15-1/2 is a thought that has crossed my mind. It would be a long term project just for craps and giggles though. Definitely not something I'd be making multiples of to sell. By the time I figured my time into the cost, I'd be MUCH better off just coughing up the cash for an original…


----------



## Mosquito

> Mos thinks the top screw holds the gauge tight to the top guided and that s how you set it for the saw height. If that s the case though, I see no reason for the block/thumbscrew to be adjustable if they are always in the same position?
> 
> - HokieKen


My thought was that the block would be to act as a depth stop, for non-through cuts, which would allow more capacity to move than just the top guide slot would


----------



## Mosquito

We saw aluminum handplanes pop up, were there ever any mass marketed aluminum miter boxes? Would a billet miter box be a thing?


----------



## HokieKen

> Mos thinks the top screw holds the gauge tight to the top guided and that s how you set it for the saw height. If that s the case though, I see no reason for the block/thumbscrew to be adjustable if they are always in the same position?
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> My thought was that the block would be to act as a depth stop, for non-through cuts, which would allow more capacity to move than just the top guide slot would
> 
> - Mosquito


AHA! Now it makes sense. So you set the block at the top of the bottom slot to set the saw height then you lock it in with the screw at the top. Then moving the block allows non-thru cuts. Cool. Pretty good design. I wonder why they didn't use it in other boxes…


----------



## HokieKen

> We saw aluminum handplanes pop up, were there ever any mass marketed aluminum miter boxes? Would a billet miter box be a thing?
> 
> - Mosquito


Don't see why not. I'd use steel though I think.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, read this thread over at Time Tested Tools.

https://www.timetestedtools.net/timetestedtools-forum/?p=post%2Fone-more-oddball-mitre-box-10046403%3Fpid%3D1307719406

Everything you need! It starts out talking about a Dorn Revolving mitre box but winds up a 15 1/2 discussion!


----------



## Mosquito

you might use steel, but my CNC wouldn't do that much steel lol


----------



## HokieKen

That'll do Kev! I can make parts just like those if that's what you guys want.

Looks like I was right Mos'. The screw on top doesn't lock the gauge down either. At least not according to the pics Kev linked.


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, that's what that one makes it look like. I wonder if there was a change at some point, since John's pictures seemed to indicate otherwise to me… Interesting. If they're all 10-32 straight threads, that would make things a lot easier lol


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I figured they were straight threads. The screws look like the threads are tapered but that's because they're barely long enough to get past the lead threads. If you roll threads or cut them with a die, that's how straight threads look.

Looking at this picture, it appears to me that the threads on both screws stop well short of being able to lock the gauge down tight. 









I think shoulder screws are the cleaner solution. But, obviously not original. So you guys can have the shoulder screws or I can make slotted screws and a narrower slot like the original.


----------



## theoldfart

My current 15 1/2 set up.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm so jealous…


----------



## theoldfart

A lucky flea market purchase. Also bought a 6" box from the same vendor.

Just to be a PiA, paid about $50-60 for both. No saw for the 15 but the 6" had a saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, I have the small bushings so the non shoulder screws and original sized slot work for me.


----------



## HokieKen

Ugh. You suck Kev. ;-p

The bushings I assume have a diameter equal to the slot width and a length a little longer than the gauge thickness?


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, and I'll need you to measure them in order to know the original slot width. The only measurement I have is from the reproduction parts you linked. He sized his slot to fit the shoulder bolts.


----------



## theoldfart

Pics coming shortly.


----------



## theoldfart

1/4" wide by 3/8" long by 1/8" thick and not threaded.










I only have two and it needs four so if you could fab two more….....

I can send you this stuff if t would help.


----------



## HokieKen

Well, I guess the 1/4 slot was the same as the original  I can swing those too. Should be able to make everything true to original.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Stanley made the A358. I believe it was about the SW era. I almost bought one off Ebay but then decided against it. 


> We saw aluminum handplanes pop up, were there ever any mass marketed aluminum miter boxes? Would a billet miter box be a thing?
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## theoldfart

OK Kenny. As always let me know price. There are a number of folks with a guide-less 15 1/2 so volume may help with costs.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know of anyone else on this thread that has one but if anyone does and needs the depth gauge parts, let me know. I'll wrap up the GP parts hopefully no later than this weekend then I have a couple other jobs in line then I'll work these in.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Went thru a cabinet in the garage today and found these two: MF 73C and Craftsman 3650. Forget which saws went with them.


----------



## HokieKen

I can see that Mike is not a collector too ;-) As much as I love the Langdon boxes, and Millers Falls in general, when they started using that gray enamel instead of black, they lost me. Same goes for planes. I'd like to own the Buck Rogers planes but if/when I do, they're most likely getting painted…


----------



## Mosquito

> I don t know of anyone else on this thread that has one but if anyone does and needs the depth gauge parts, let me know. I ll wrap up the GP parts hopefully no later than this weekend then I have a couple other jobs in line then I ll work these in.
> 
> - HokieKen


Count me in, though I don't have any of the pieces Kevin has either lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

I had forgotten how nice that Craftsman 3650 is. It gets a plus plus from me. I think the MF box is a nice one too but I haven't figured out the saw for it just yet.


----------



## HokieKen

I can make you the screws and spacers like Kev has or I can make you shoulder screws like the link Kev posted this morning. Functionally there's no difference. Spacer and screws seem to be the OG version though.


----------



## Mosquito

So apparently, I have two screws, and they're shoulder screws lol


----------



## Mosquito

So, oddly enough, I checked Jim Bode's site this evening, and saw he listed a 15-1/2 to pair with the 16-1/2 that he had listed a few days ago. But when I looked at it… I'm pretty sure that was Jon's, it appears to match exactly between the photos that were shared in the previously referenced blog entry



















Note, the second picture from the blog where the depth stop mechanisms were cleaned up along with the guides, per the Jim Bode picture (it's just harder to see the miter box details)

I also believe the 16-1/2 to be one of the later acquisitions Jon had, if I remember correctly, he liked it specifically because it had that user made brass angle indicator on top

Edit: This is the 16-1/2 Jon posted here and it appears to match.

So I think I've answered my question from earlier today…



> Makes you wonder what the fate of his collection is/will be…
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## Mosquito

Trying to un-depress myself from thinking about all that… Looking at that second blog picture again, I don't think I'm convinced that the screw in the top doesn't tighten far enough to clamp the depth stop guide to the saw guide post, it's a lot tighter against it on the top than the one on the bottom is… I've been trying to find some sort of a manual for this box, but haven't come up with anything other than catalog pages that don't mention anything about its use


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, Jim Bode bought most of it. Bode has the small Ulmia and the small GP 1625 for sale as well.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

:-(


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely, sniff.


----------



## HokieKen

I guess we can take some comfort in the fact that they ended up in Bode's hands and not hauled off to the local Goodwill (or worse) by a wife or kids that didn't know what it all was. Jon was generous with parts and knowledge but when it came to rare pieces, he wasn't shy about not selling them for less than they were worth. So I imagine he would be at peace knowing that Bode has them posted on the high side of market value 

RIP Jon.


----------



## HokieKen

> Trying to un-depress myself from thinking about all that… Looking at that second blog picture again, I don t think I m convinced that the screw in the top doesn t tighten far enough to clamp the depth stop guide to the saw guide post, it s a lot tighter against it on the top than the one on the bottom is… I ve been trying to find some sort of a manual for this box, but haven t come up with anything other than catalog pages that don t mention anything about its use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


When you screw your screws all the way in, is that gap between the guide and the head the same on both? If so, I have to think that they are both for alignment only. Also, can you gauge or measure that gap for me? I plan to make these 1/8" thick based on the post Kev linked yesterday. Since you all have some of the original hardware though, I'll make sure the thickness matches up.

I'm not sure, based on the limited examples we have, whether or not the top screw locks the guide down or not. But, like I said yesterday, if it does and that's how you set the elevators for the saw height which would still allow you to use the block in the lower slot to set stops for non-thru cuts, it's a pretty smart design. So whether or not it was intended to work like that, I don't see any problem with using it like that ;-)

Actually, looking at the illustration from the catalog page:









I think you're right and the top screw was intended to lock the bar to the upper guide. If the illustration is to be believed, if the top of the guide wasn't held at the top of the slot by the screw, the saw wouldn't be held above the bed like it is. It would continue to go down until the screw hit the bottom of the slot.

And that's enough trying to ponder out antique miter saw guides for now. I should probably do a little of the work I get paid for. They pay me a lot more than you fellas do ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

The two that I have are the two lower ones, so I don't know what the gap on the top is compared to bottom screws unfortunately lol

I'll try to remember to measure if I can get out to the shop tonight Alternatively, someone buy Jon's old box, and let us know


----------



## HokieKen

I have a feeling that you and Jon were both missing the spacers that Kev has. I think Kev has two because there were only two, on the bottoms. And the top was just a screw with no spacer. So, I think Mos needs two screws for the top that are threaded all the way down and two spacers to go with the two screws you already have for the bottom. Then Kev just needs two more screws for the top.

That's the way I see it at least. Obviously, I'll make you guys whatever you want though ;-)

I think you two should pitch in and buy me Jon's box so I can make exact replicas ;-0


----------



## theoldfart

Makes sense Kenny, I think I have the shorter screws. Will check later.


----------



## HokieKen

I imagine all 4 screws are the same Kev, you just don't use the spacers on the top.


----------



## HokieKen

Just to further confuse the situation, Derek Perth did a restore of a 15 1/2 box in 2015. It looks like there is a spacer behind the depth gauge at the top screw in this picture:


----------



## Mosquito

Yeah, I had forgotten about Derek's, as I often do. I'll have to cruise it again later. I went through it when I first got mine, but that was a number of years ago already (maybe even around the time he restored his)


----------



## HokieKen

It would be easy enough to tell if it needed a spacer back there. Just put a straight edge on the flat milled on the botttom guide and see if it's flush with the diameter of the upper guide. If it's not, a spacer would prevent bending the gauge.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm at the RR right now. I'll check mine when I get home. If someone has the time, troll the Time Tested mitre box thread. A lot of good conversations went on there.


----------



## controlfreak

Where are Jon's Miter Boxes being posted if for sale? I had communicated that I may want to buy one but I don't think it was a priority for him at the time so I only mentioned it once and let it go. I sure miss his knowledge and wisdom, RIP Jon.


----------



## Mosquito

One note that I saw in Derek's was that he got a .020" plate… I went with .032", as that fit in the guides better. More like my other Langdon style box, very little slop, but not snug. I wonder if that was because of availability, or not checking. Curious what the original saws were, if yours is original Kevin. (though it's just a curiosity, as I've already got the kit in hand regardless lol)


----------



## HokieKen

Derek also put some nylon spacers in the upper guide to make a tight fit with the saw back. As long as there's clearance for the plate, bigger=better to my mind at least.


----------



## HokieKen

> Where are Jon s Miter Boxes being posted if for sale? I had communicated that I may want to buy one but I don t think it was a priority for him at the time so I only mentioned it once and let it go. I sure miss his knowledge and wisdom, RIP Jon.
> 
> - controlfreak


Mos' linked two of them listed on Jim Bode's site in post #5091 this morning. Kev said JB bought the bulk of Jon's collection so I imagine any that haven't been posted on his site already will be in the future. We won't have any way of knowing which ones were his though unless somebody recognizes one from Jon's posts here and other places.


----------



## Mosquito

> Derek also put some nylon spacers in the upper guide to make a tight fit with the saw back. As long as there s clearance for the plate, bigger=better to my mind at least.
> 
> - HokieKen


Agreed, that was my philosophy as well. Similar to my other miter saws of this style, there's a wider section for the tooth line on the saw. I think that probably mitigates his use of nylon spacers, just getting the right fit for the saw plate to begin with


----------



## theoldfart

There are a number of Jon's mitre boxes on Bodes site, all small and all have a significant price.


----------



## HokieKen

His 15-1/2, 16-1/2 and Ulmia are all three listed. And all 3 are well out of my price range. They can't even see my price range they're so far out of it :-(


----------



## Johnny7

Nice sleuthing, *Mos*


----------



## RWE

I bought a restored Stanley 358 from Jon years back. I did swap a later model 358 that he was interested in and cash to boot, but nothing came close to those prices on Jim Bode's site. Any of you fellows rub elbows with a collector that can pay 2 or 3 k for a saw? Must be fun.


----------



## HokieKen

Just Kev RWE. Mos could but he spends all his $ on combination planes. I just hang around down here under their tables waiting for the occasional scrap ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

FWIW, the boxes on Bode's site are rare to find. And having the partial label on the one makes it especially desirable. I've seen lesser boxes sell for not too much less than those prices on Ebay more than once. And now you know why I don't own one…


----------



## theoldfart

Ahem, Kenny! 2 to 3K for a saw? Fat chance. I'm a bottom feeder. Almost all of my better box finds have been under $100. Saws are usually $5-$10, Bob's restoration work is the real investment and still a bargain to boot.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, the lower bosses on the 15 1/2 are not perfectly flush with the top of the posts.










There is a small amount of daylight showing.


----------



## HokieKen

> Ahem, Kenny! 2 to 3K for a saw? Fat chance. I m a bottom feeder. Almost all of my better box finds have been under $100. Saws are usually $5-$10, Bob s restoration work is the real investment and still a bargain to boot.
> 
> - theoldfart


I know. I'm just still stewing over your score on the 15-1/2. I'll get over it some day ;-) I agree about Bob too. I spent more for him to doctor the saw for my 74 box than I spent on the box and saw combined. But it was well worth it 

That gap doesn't look like anything that needs a spacer back there though, right Kev? Looks like pulling the guide flush might flex it a little bit but wouldn't hurt anything or affect function?


----------



## Mosquito

that's what it looks like to me too Kenny.

And I do occasionally spend too much on combination planes, and my 15-1/2 was a decent deal, that came with no saw or the hardware we're discussing now. I don't think either of us knew what it was at the time of the sale to be honest lol I haven't really been bit by the miter box bug… they take up too much of my combination plane space


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, just wanted to make sure the burglars watching us here don't get the impression that my shop would be the ultimate score!

Getting ready to send some wood cutting implements to Missoula!

Oh, and yea Kenny, the gap is too small to affect the workings.


----------



## HokieKen

Finally got a little shop time this evening. Slowly but surely getting these things done…


----------



## tshiker

I think my box is complete. I can check for parts / dimensions tomorrow if you'd like?


----------



## controlfreak

Those are looking Kenny! I feel a restoration coming soon for my miter boxes. Guys, get ready for lots of questions..


----------



## HokieKen

> I think my box is complete. I can check for parts / dimensions tomorrow if you d like?
> 
> - tshiker


That would be fantastic Tom. The more information we can gather, the better!


----------



## Mosquito

Agreed the more the merrier on info.

Parts are looking good Kenny


----------



## controlfreak

> Those are looking Kenny! I feel a restoration coming soon for my miter boxes. Guys, get ready for lots of questions..
> 
> - controlfreak


I was supposed to say they are looking good but they are also looking Kenny too!


----------



## HokieKen

"looking Kenny" >> "looking good" ;-)

Tom, regarding your 15-1/2 box, specifically, I'd like to see a picture of all the individual parts of the depth stops laid out. If there's any difference between the parts on the front guide and the rear guide please highlight them. (I have no reason to suspect this is the case but you never know…)

Also, it would be awesome to have a definitive answer on whether the screw on the top guide locks the stop to the guide or has a spacer or shoulder that allows it to move. We suspect that the top screw locks but would love some verification.

Also, is there a spacer like Kev showed:









under the screws at top and bottom or just bottom? And, are the screws threaded like Kev's^ or do the threads stop well short of the head like this?:









Is there any kind of spacer or curved washer or anything behind the bar at the top guides as seems to be shown in this photo?:









Any other details or dimensions you would care to offer would be much appreciated as well! And if you're missing any of the parts on yours, I can hook you up too


----------



## tshiker




----------



## tshiker

1/4" graph paper.

Sorry about the schmutz on the parts, I haven't gotten around to cleaning it yet.

No spacers at all. All 4 screws that attach the bar are the same size and do NOT tighten up to lock it in place and to be honest, I don't see any benefit if it did.


----------



## tshiker

Also, It looks like my setup is just like Poa's on Jim Bode's website.


----------



## tshiker

Interesting that they used a completely different approach for the 16 1/2 box!


----------



## HokieKen

So it would seem that there were at least two different types, ones with the shoulder screws and one with the spacers like Kev has.

How wide are the slots Tom? Are the screws a tight fit in the slot? Best I can tell, the slots, and the raised boss on the block look to be about 1/4" but the screws appear to be more like #10 (~3/16" diameter).

Mos' and I hypothesized that if the top screw locked the bar down, that you could set the height for the saw plate using that with the block all the way at the top of the slot. Then if you wanted to set a height for a non-through cut, you could move the block down in the lower slot and do so that way. Then you slide the block back to the end of the slot and you're back to ready to go with through cuts. But, it seems they probably weren't intended to work that way and had no provision for non-through cuts.

Thank you for the pics Tom, those are most helpful!


----------



## tshiker

Kenny,

The slots are 7/32" best as I can tell. There is definitely wiggle room between the screw and the slot, 1/64" maybe.

Always willing to add to the hive mind!


----------



## BlasterStumps

man, that 15 1/2 mitre box on Bode's site sold fast. Probably show back up on Ebay for twice that much. Unless it was one of you "not a collector" guys that got it. : )


----------



## HokieKen

Normally flipping tools on Ebay is a way to make a buck. I'm not sure you can flip Bode's tools for a profit though ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

yeah I would bet that's going to be tough lol


----------



## HokieKen

Regarding the 15-1/2 box parts, how about if I make you guys 4 screws that are fully threaded and 4 spacers? Then you can do whatever you want on the top screw, remove the spacer to lock it down or use the spacer and don't. And the bars, thumbscrews and the center block. Alternatively, I could make you 4 thumbscrews and 2 fully threaded screws and eliminate the spacers altogether. You can just decide which screws you want on the top. Totally up to y'all. Then of course two of the slotted bars, two thumbscrews and two of the blocks.


----------



## HokieKen

Regarding the 15-1/2 box parts, how about if I make you guys 4 screws that are fully threaded and 4 spacers? Then you can do whatever you want on the top screw, remove the spacer to lock it down or use the spacer and don't. And the bars, thumbscrews and the center block. Alternatively, I could make you 4 thumbscrews and 2 fully threaded screws and eliminate the spacers altogether. You can just decide which screws you want on the top. Totally up to y'all. Then of course two of the slotted bars, two thumbscrews and two of the blocks.

Edit to add: If y'all wanted to go tool-less, it's just as easy for me to make the top and bottom screws thumbscrews instead of slotted screws. Just throwing it out there ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Whatever the others want Kenny though I would prefer screws over thumbscrews just for appearances sake.


----------



## Mosquito

I'm with Kevin on that. I'm fine with whatever, I just want working


----------



## HokieKen

Slotted screws it is then. As of now, you two are the only ones wanting parts so y'all get to pick 



> man, that 15 1/2 mitre box on Bode s site sold fast. Probably show back up on Ebay for twice that much. Unless it was one of you "not a collector" guys that got it. : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps


It didn't sell Mike. It's still posted.


----------



## HokieKen

Oh wait, nevermind, that's a different one. Wonder if that one was Jon's too??


----------



## theoldfart

All of Bodes recent small boxes including the Ulmia were Jon's.


----------



## HokieKen

Screws are done for the GP parts ). They were the parts I was dreading just because it's so time consuming to thread parts on a manual lathe. All I gotta do now is drill and press some levers into the screw heads and make the washers to go under them. Oh and pull out the forge to bend some length stops. So I'll definitely be shipping these things out next week.


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, wait a minute. Isn't it on the wrong side?

Oops, my bad! Had my screen upside down.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, Kevin, should have posted those as two separate messages to see if he read down before panicking 

Look good from here Kenny


----------



## HokieKen

I actually panicked a couple weeks ago right after I finished the bars. I had to find a picture confirming the wide part went down. And I did screw up the first block for the length stops and drilled the hole for the locating pin on the wrong side :-/


----------



## controlfreak

This reminds me to get busy soaking my rusted up bar to see if I can free it up. I was worried I may brake it during the process and then I thought "I am going to need the bottom half of that". Wish me luck!


----------



## BlasterStumps

That is one of two he had listed. I believe the other one was the one with the brass degree plate and brass knob. It was about $700. Sold like in 3 days time I think. 


> Slotted screws it is then. As of now, you two are the only ones wanting parts so y all get to pick
> 
> man, that 15 1/2 mitre box on Bode s site sold fast. Probably show back up on Ebay for twice that much. Unless it was one of you "not a collector" guys that got it. : )
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> It didn t sell Mike. It s still posted.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## Mosquito

16-1/2 was the brass degree plate box, but he did list two separate 15-1/2's. He must have a pretty good following, a lot of his stuff sells same day, or within a few


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## HokieKen




----------



## Moai

wow wow….so the guide actually holds the work piece in place and the saw is going down through the guide all the way….its impressive!
I love that bench with twin Sheldon Vises


> This might be of particular interest to Kevin, but I have a pair of Seavey/Stearns miter boxes/guides (This is Kev s, I stole/borrowed/linked his picture from Don W s forums)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And while that obviously works (and how I d been using mine), I came across this in a Keen Kutter (surprise surprise) catalogue I was looking through for something in another thread. The keyholes on the front of the casting were what threw me off at first, but this makes total sense now. Seems as though the intention is you bolt it to the workbench so it can move up and down, and then use it attached to the bench
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## theoldfart

Now I feel bad, I only have one. :-(


----------



## HokieKen

Et, fini'!


----------



## theoldfart

Beauteous my good man, just beauteous.


----------



## HokieKen

It appears that the original length stops were 10" long. The ones I've made are about 11. If I cut them down to about 9-7/8", I can still fit them in a small flat rate box which will save considerably on shipping. You guys who have the length stops coming let me know if you want me to cut them down or if the extra inch is worth $8-10 more in shipping.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, I'll pay the extra shipping. I occasionally trim multiple pieces by an 1/8 3/16" so I need the long bar. Thanks.


----------



## HokieKen

You got it Kev.


----------



## Mosquito

> Now I feel bad, I only have one. :-(
> 
> - theoldfart


I have none lol

Kenny, I'll stick with the current size if you have boxes for it. Do you think they'd survive in a flat rate envelope? I believe those are 12-1/2" , and around the same cost as a small box. Maybe tape a couple pieces of scrap/junk wood on either side if bending is a concern? I don't have the pieces in hand, so I don't know if that's feasible or not  I might even have some I could send with the #113 as packing material too (I'm hoping to get that sent out Monday)


----------



## controlfreak

> if the extra inch is worth $8-10 more in shipping.
> 
> - HokieKen


That's what she said!

Extra shipping is fine but if it makes things difficult then you may cut.


----------



## HokieKen

I think I can ship these things without flat rate, the parts aren't all that heavy. I'll leave them full length and let y'all know what actual shipping is. I should get everybody's sent out Monday so I'll send you total cost and tracking after I drop em off.


----------



## theoldfart

Well, whadaya know, Bode put up another Langdon 16 1/2!
The guy sure can find 'em.


----------



## controlfreak

Well looky here, I have a stop and support for my miter box. It took some filing to remove enough rust to get them to slide in well. I figured that would be easier than trying to return to Kenny Millworks for a refund. I hear they will wear you down rather than process a return.

I like the look and fit, Thanks Kenny!


----------



## HokieKen

Great! There's always a little nagging concern that I missed something important with jobs like this and that the parts aren't going to fit when they get there. Glad these do


----------



## theoldfart

CF, now your in business.

They look just right.


----------



## HokieKen

So apparently the flat bottom guides I sent you fellas are too big… I used these dimensions:









And I hit those dimensions pretty dang closely but controlfreak and Mos' both had issues with them sticking. They were both able to fix the problem with a little file work.

I know Kev and Jeff haven't got their parts yet. Kev, your's should be delivered tomorrow. Jeff, see PM I sent.

I'd like to have the proper dimensions for these. So if anyone has the ability to take measurements to .xxx precision (dial caliper or micrometer) it would be appreciated. I saved the drawing for these parts in case of future requests and would like to correct the dimensions before I forget that I didn't and make more sticky ones in the future…

If anyone can't make them fit with a file, or just doesn't want to, just let me know. I'll be happy to remake them for you guys and send you replacements at no charge. Sorry for the issue!


----------



## bandit571

When one has more than one box…









And I didn't want to keep changing this one's settings…









We have ways….










Gets a might cramped doing 45s….and keeping track of how deep the cut is going….

haven't found a mitrebox to replace this saw..









That does this rip cut…


----------



## DLK

A very excellent video for making a picture frame starting from square stock, using hollows and rounds, filister, shoulder planes, sticking board, miter box and so on is this one by Bob Rozaieski. *You will all enjoy watching it. *


----------



## bandit571

Making doors…









This time around…









Takes a different sort of clamp scheme…


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, like a glove!


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Kev. Glad they fit 

Did somebody get Dove chocolates for Valentine's Day? ;-p


----------



## theoldfart

Got vaccinated today, self inflicted gift of Dove dark!


----------



## DLK

I got Pfizer shot 1 last Thursday (Feb 11), shot 2 is scheduled for March 11.


----------



## theoldfart

This is a BIG rant,

Package from the post office










The contents, an 1874-79 6" Langdon mitre saw with etch.



















Reasonably packed. It has withstood 150 or so years use just fine, at least until the post office got to it.


----------



## Mosquito

aw dang Kev


----------



## HokieKen

Shoot Kev, that blows :-(


----------



## theoldfart

The seller was heartbroken and told me to just keep the saw. I bought the saw to go with the Langdon Improved cast 6" mitre box that I have. First 6" saw with split nuts I've seen.


----------



## HokieKen

Is it just the handle that was damaged Kev? Looks like pretty clean breaks. Should be a pretty easy and clean repair?


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, yea it's repairable.

Rotten thing is it's the second split nut Langdon I've had damaged recently. The first was a Northampton Langdon, this one is a Miller's Falls Langdon. I think the Miller's Falls split nut Langdons were from the Northampton facility and brought up to Miller Falls after the '74 flood. The type used for the Langdon imprint looks a little different than the type used for the city name.


----------



## bandit571

Even I pack saws better than that…..handle gets taken off, bubble wrapped with the hardware…then that is bubble wrapped down to the center of the plate. Then more bubble wrap….

Have seen way too many box messed up by them, to ever trust them.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, collectible saws loose a lot of value if the handle is removed especially split nut saws. You just have to pack them like you do in a ton of bubble stuff making sure that it cannot move in the box. Bob Summerfield has perfected the art of packing assembled saws for shipment. Everything I've gotten from him has arrived in pristine shape. Saving a few bucks on shipping by shortcutting the packing will wind up costing more in the end.


----------



## DLK

How or why is it that they lose value, if you can put the handle back on and it is undetectable that it was once removed?


----------



## theoldfart

Almost impossible to conceal on a split nut saw. There are finishing marks on the nuts when the saw was made and everything was sanded flush. You'd have to get a better explanation from a collector/saw aficionado than what I've given.


----------



## Mosquito

Got mine fit up and installed now too


----------



## DLK

> Almost impossible to conceal on a split nut saw. There are finishing marks on the nuts when the saw was made and everything was sanded flush. You'd have to get a better explanation from a collector/saw aficionado than what I've given.
> 
> - theoldfart


I see. I suppose then, that it depends on "how collectible" the saw is.


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely. The few somewhat good ones I have don't qualify as collectors grade so I use all but one of them.


----------



## controlfreak

Sorry that happened Kevin I feel your pain. I still haven't attempted to repair my broken handle saw, I was just too depressed to deal with it. I guess it may be time to revisit. I can't remember if it was three small pieces or four.

If the handle stays on it seems the trick is to have not only foam around the handle but a sufficient amount on the butt of the handle. There is way to much stress when it is slung down a shoot and hits the steel backstop on the handle horns.


----------



## HokieKen

I think I've found the culprit for you fella's guides being too snug. Jethro measured two of his original guides and two of his original tracks for me. The dimensions I got from the old post were:









But, on both of Jethro's guides, the wide section was ~.530" wide and the tracks were .550-.565" wide. So, the .570" obviously wasn't going to slide… And I machined the .500" width but on his parts, the tracks were .500 and the guides were ~.010" narrower.

So thanks Jethro! I'll update the dimensions on my drawing so if anybody requests these in the future, they won't have to do any filing like y'all did ;-)


----------



## JethroBodean

I think I just might be channeling Jon Hall and his way of wondering/discussing the smallest details when it came to mitre boxes. So if stupid little details aren't your bag, then just skip ahead to the next post.

Many of you know that HokieKen's has been using his skills as a machinist to manufacture some replacement parts for GP/MF All-Steel boxes. As part of that endeavor he asked for some measurements of the flat bottomed tracks that mount to the sides of the boxes.










(Don't worry, I'm almost there) I pulled the tracks off of 2 of my boxes, but to my great surprise it turns out they are not the same size. One of them is 1.12" tall and the other is 0.85" tall.



















I did find that if I lined up the mounting holes that the bottoms of the slots do appear to line up.










It appears to me that the sliding pieces are interchangeable and work with either sized track.

I have 6 boxes with the flat bottomed tracks, 3 of them have the tall tracks and 3 have the shorter tracks. The 3 with the taller tracks all have wooden beds, these three I've always suspected to be my oldest All-Steels. Of the other 3 boxes, one has a wooden bed and 2 have metal beds. It has always been my belief that the wooden beds are older than the metals beds, Jon never really bought into that idea.

OK I'm done. (Was that good for you Jon?)


----------



## HokieKen

It would make sense that the wooden bed would require taller tracks Jeff… sorta. But if the bottom of the tracks ends up the same place relative to the top of the cast frame, then the length stop would be the same height relative to the casting, right? So, if all the guides are the same height then the taller tracks don't really accommodate a thicker bed, right?


----------



## controlfreak

Most of my filing was done on the sides of the upper portion of the 0.500" part of the saw not the part Kenny made. It was easier to reach and smallest surface to remove.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, Jon and I had a discussion about the wood bed models as well. I am pretty sure that some point the metal bed was an option. Some of the Goodell boxes have screw eyes for mounting the beds as opposed to rivets.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kenny - I believe that the taller tracks are a way for us to identify an older vs a little bit newer box. The same way we know that a box with V tracks is newer than any box with flat bottoms. I speculate that that somewhere along the way, GP decided that the tracks just did not need to be quite as tall.

It appears to me that dimensions of the slides from those 2 boxes are essentially the same. So either slide will work with either box and will put the length stop at the same level above the bed.

The depth of the slot itself also became shallower in the shorter tracks. With the upper (narrower) portion of the slot being a bit shorter










In short I'm suggesting that a box with tracks over 1 inch tall, is older that a box with shorter tracks. And of course flat bottoms always older than V bottoms.

CF - That makes sense to me.

Kev - Yep that's what he always suggested to me too.

Jeff


----------



## Mosquito

> Jeff, Jon and I had a discussion about the wood bed models as well. I am pretty sure that some point the metal bed was an option. Some of the Goodell boxes have screw eyes for mounting the beds as opposed to rivets.
> 
> - theoldfart


Meaning the metal bed is screwed to the box not riveted? My box has metal bed with screws that hold it down, if that helps the discussion any (I'm actually not sure which model we're talking about lol)


----------



## gwold

Just picked this up yesterday, still in as-found condition. It looks to be all there except the trip lever-the stock guides, leveling screws, depth stop all in place.










The tag, on the right end, clearly says this is a #2 frame, but nowhere is there a model number.










I've been browsing this thread, & elsewhere, and haven't see this before. Was this box maybe sold without a saw? The one I received with it is a Disston for Stanley:










3-3/4" below the back today, so I'd guess this ought to be a 244. Two patents, 10-5-09 & 1-2-12; medallion on the saw looks to date 1896 - 1917. So if the saw's original that'd mean this set dates to … 1912 - 1917ish?


----------



## Johnny7

Highly unlikely that the saw is not original to the box, so using the saw's dimensions is probably the way to go.
What is the length of the saw (measured along the toothline)?

As you may or may not know, the second digit of that dimension is the third digit in the model no.


----------



## bandit571

I imagine that it is indeed the OEM saw….as Stanley did not make those saws….Disston made a No. 4 Miter saw for all the miter box makers….with the Disston etch, AND a "Made expressly For ( insert makers name) Mitre box.

have almost the same etch on quite a few of my own miter box saws….including a Goodell Pratt Co. AND a Millers Falls…..The miter box was then "tuned" to that model of saw.

That miter box can be changed from a 244 to a #246, simply by moving the front post out to the end of the swing arm….note there are two spots to hold the front post. Happen to have a Stanley #346 in my shop…









Sitting beside a Langdon #75…...


----------



## gwold

> Highly unlikely that the saw is not original to the box, so using the saw s dimensions is probably the way to go.
> What is the length of the saw (measured along the toothline)?
> 
> As you may or may not know, the second digit of that dimension is the third digit in the model no.
> 
> - Johnny7


Johnny, the tooth line is just over 24", which is why I am guessing the box is a 244. I'd read some say to measure the tooth line, others the "full length" at the bar (over 25", here)-both stories on the internet, but how could both be true? Heh.



> I imagine that it is indeed the OEM saw….as Stanley did not make those saws….Disston made a No. 4 Miter saw for all the miter box makers….with the Disston etch, AND a "Made expressly For ( insert makers name) Mitre box.
> 
> have almost the same etch on quite a few of my own miter box saws….including a Goodell Pratt Co. AND a Millers Falls…..The miter box was then "tuned" to that model of saw.
> 
> That miter box can be changed from a 244 to a #246, simply by moving the front post out to the end of the swing arm….note there are two spots to hold the front post. Happen to have a Stanley #346 in my shop…
> 
> Sitting beside a Langdon #75…...
> 
> - bandit571


I've seen your miter boxes before, Bandit, following your build-alongs on another forum. Hello, again.

What's really bugging me is why the tag doesn't list the model-every other Stanley tag I've seen explicitly lists the model, as well as the frame number.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, and, I just used my #358, about an hour ago…..trimming parts to do a few glue-ups, tomorrow…I hope. 









I leave this one set up to do 90 degree cross cuts…


----------



## JethroBodean

Ok, let's see if I can't completely muddy the waters here.

The turn of the century Stanley mitre boxes with the 3-digit model numbers followed this pattern:
1st position is the frame size (to my knowledge there were 3 frame sizes; 2, 3 or 4)
2nd position is the height of the saw under the spine (4", 5" and 6")
3rd position is the last digit of the saw length (2 for 22", 4 for 24", 6 for 26", 8 for 28" and 0 for 20" or 30")
(20" saws were only available on the No.2 frame, 30" saws were available with both the No.3 and No.4 frames)

My understanding is that Stanley did sell boxes without the saw and in those cases the box only had the frame size on the tag. I suspect that your box was originally sold without a saw.

Since the model number of the box is defined by the saw it was sold with; changing the saw guide from the inner socket to the outer socket does not change the model number. It simply allows you to cut a wider board.

Lastly the length of a saw is defined by the length of the plate. With most saws this is also the length of the of the tooth line. That is not true in the case of a clipped heal miter saw. The length of a clipped heal miter saw is considered to be 2 inches longer than the length of the tooth line.

I hope that makes sense. But then again my wife says I never really do.


----------



## tshiker

I have that exact box, no model number just frame size. The late poa (RIP) who new more about mitre boxes then most came to the same conclusion as Jethro did above. Nice find! Up until now mine was the only one I've seen with just the frame number.


----------



## Johnny7

> Lastly the length of a saw is defined by the length of the plate. With most saws this is also the length of the of the tooth line. That is not true in the case of a clipped heal miter saw. The length of a clipped heal miter saw is considered to be 2 inches longer than the length of the tooth line.
> 
> - JethroBodean


You are right regarding advertised saw length (for clipped-heel) backsaws-I have it wrong in my post (above)


----------



## gwold

> I have that exact box, no model number just frame size. The late poa (RIP) who new more about mitre boxes then most came to the same conclusion as Jethro did above. Nice find! Up until now mine was the only one I ve seen with just the frame number.
> 
> - tshiker


Great news! It seems odd that we don't see more of these.


----------



## theoldfart

These pics are for Ben, he's posted a nice 1880 or so Langdon with saw on the saw thread.

These are the set screws I spoke of










And this is how to measure for the correct saw width on the Langdons










This post is for a 4" deep saw.

Also Ben, both the Northampton and Miller's Falls spine stamps end with Mass.

You will need to take the box apart to check the fit on the preset stop pin.


----------



## BenDupre

Hi Saw experts. Today I procured what I believe is a Langdon Miter box with a Diston backsaw. I suspect these are a marriage of convenience but that is what I would like advice on. This is the first of these I have acquired. Here are my questions:

1) There are no markings that I can see on the box. How might I know it s maker and/or vinatage?
2) The previous owner has painted it. Is this an improvement (opinions yay or nay)?
3) The saw does not cut all the way down to the spoil board - or through the wood. Is this because it is the wrong saw? There don t appear to be any adjustments.
4) The positive lock appears to be very sloppy, is this normal? First cut was not exactly square in either axis.
5) gave $50 for it. Did I do well?























































Thanks!
Ben

- BenDupre


----------



## theoldfart

The model number could be either 22, 23 or 24.


----------



## BenDupre

So it seems I am now in search of a 5-inch miter saw, and/or a an older box that will mate with this (3-1/2 inch) saw. The saw seems to be the prize here. Although the spine mark appears to be misstruck, it does look to me like a NORTHAMPTON MASS mark, and the saw has split nuts. Also it is clear the posts were modified to accommodate the saw. Also, is it strange to anyone that the toothline stops short of the saw heel?














































Thank you for any insights


----------



## HokieKen

That's a new one on me Ben. Miter saws usually have the heel clipped right there since it wouldn't be possible to use the teeth below the handle. But, I don't recall having seen any where they just stopped the teeth short like that.


----------



## theoldfart

The clipped heel is a later development when back saws were dedicated to mitre boxes.

Someone butchered those posts Ben.

And I agree that is a Northampton, you can barely see the top of the N.

Just as an aside there are split nut saws with the Millers Falls stamp.


----------



## Johnny7

Hard to really tell from your (last) image, but is the toothline "higher" than the unfiled plate under the heel?

If so, it's possible they not only modified the posts, but also cut down the width of the saw plate.

They then only bothered to file in new teeth where they would be used/needed.


----------



## BenDupre

Agree the posts look rough. Glad though that they left the saw pretty much alone. Forgot to mention the saw is 22 inches long. So being a Northampton saw, how old does that make it? 1875? Not selling but am curious what it may be worth.

Was there a label on this box when it was manufactured? There appears to be no sign of it now. And there is thick coat of black paint all over it.


----------



## BenDupre

Johnny,

The saw is about 3/8 wider at the heel than at the toe. Thought that was just due to "settling" or "creeping up" at the toe.

Does that answer your question?


----------



## HokieKen

That saw would pair up nicely with a Stanley 150 box if you're looking for a good user setup Ben.


----------



## theoldfart

Northampton saws are dated from 1874 to 1875 mostly.

Labels on early Langdons were paper and pasted on, not many survived long term. I've paid between $50 to $90 shipped for Northampton saws.


----------



## BenDupre

Thanks for the suggestion Ken!

Can I assume that if I can find a Northampton box it will fit? I am looking for the one with the cast backstop right?


----------



## JethroBodean

A while back I picked 3 up Mitre Saws off of craigslist. The oldest (at the top of the picture) is a Disston with 4.25" under the spine. It's too tall to be a 4" saw and too short to be a 5" saw; so I have to assume that it was originally a 5" that has been sharpened a lot. But the reason I bring it up is that it also does not have teeth cut at the heel.




























It does have an almost readable Langdon etch:


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not sure Ben. I don't know what size the Northampton boxes are. I'm pretty sure Kev has one though so he can probably tell you.


----------



## theoldfart

Ben, the pic above where I showed how to measure for saw size is from a Northampton Langdon



















This is about the shallowest saw that will fit.


----------



## HokieKen

Those Northampton boxes are neither common or cheap Ben. I've been watching for a good deal on one and haven't gotten anywhere close.


----------



## theoldfart

Ken, they were made for only two years. There was a major industrial accident in 1875, a deadly flood that destroyed the factory. The company moved production to Miller's Falls in 1875.


----------



## HokieKen

I knew the time in Northampton was brief. I don't really have a good reason for wanting one. Honestly, I just think the casting is cool looking.


----------



## theoldfart

Kenny, they redid that casting later in Miller's Falls. Those boxes show up now and then on the 'Bay. I have the big one, it takes a 6" saw and weighs a ton!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I definitely don't need a big one, my 74 is big enough for me. I should probably just stick with it and my 150. Unless I ever luck into a 15-1/2 or 16-1/2  And by "luck into" I mean find one cheap enough that my wife won't use it to castrate me…


----------



## BenDupre

If the box is that hard to find maybe I'll just cut my loss and sell the saw and box separately since they are so badly mismatched. The saw though is seriously the coolest and oldest tool I've ever owned and it's in really good condition. Still even sharp. How rare do you all think it is? There has to be someone out there with a northampton box wishing they could find a Disston saw for it.


----------



## controlfreak

I got my GP box off the shelf last night for some cuts. The saw guides are very stiff and make it a chore to use. I need to get to cleaning and oiling that saw box. Its on the "to do" list.


----------



## HokieKen

Based on Kev's picture, is your saw deep enough to fit in a Northampton box Ben?

CF - be careful with lubrication on your box. Sawdust mixed with oil will make things worse. You'll probably get better results by polishing the OD of the uprights and the ID of the recievers and letting them run dry.


----------



## BenDupre

Based on Kev's picture it seems like a perfect match. Does anyone know sources (online) other than ebay to find a Northampton box? Anyone know some with a Northampton box pining for a saw?


----------



## JethroBodean

> CF - be careful with lubrication on your box. Sawdust mixed with oil will make things worse. You ll probably get better results by polishing the OD of the uprights and the ID of the recievers and letting them run dry.
> 
> - HokieKen


I've had success using one of the dry lubricant sprays. So far I've just used which ever can jumps into my hand at the store.


----------



## HokieKen

I wondered about dry lube Jeff. So far all I've done is paste wax on the king bolt. Haven't done anything to the guides other than clean and polish them when I first got the box. So far so good but if/when they start to hang, I'll give them a shot of something dry.


----------



## controlfreak

> CF - be careful with lubrication on your box. Sawdust mixed with oil will make things worse. You ll probably get better results by polishing the OD of the uprights and the ID of the recievers and letting them run dry.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> I ve had success using one of the dry lubricant sprays. So far I ve just used which ever can jumps into my hand at the store.
> 
> - JethroBodean


The uprights are going up and down okay it is more of an issue where the saw passes through the narrow gap in the uprights. I need to disassemble and take a good look at where the friction is. I suspect it is dried crud in the saw guides. I am trying to figure out what solvents and material to run through there. Do they come half in two? If so what next, clean with solvent and green pad?


----------



## HokieKen

> Based on Kev s picture it seems like a perfect match. Does anyone know sources (online) other than ebay to find a Northampton box? Anyone know some with a Northampton box pining for a saw?
> 
> - BenDupre


You can keep an eye on Jim Bode's site and subscribe to Patrick Leach's monthly tool list by e-mailing him at [email protected] Here's the link to this month's list. I don't recall any miter boxes but won't swear there weren't any. If you're looking for a bargain though, Ebay is usually your best bet.


----------



## Mosquito

I've been using B'laster dry lube with teflon for a while, and it seems to work pretty well. Only annoyance is that I think the addition of the teflon makes it dry white if not wiped off. But I use it for a lot, cast iron table tops, lathe ways, router table top. No issues with sawdust once it's dry that way. Used it on my goodell box guide posts when I got it, and I'm happy with it.


----------



## HokieKen

CF - I would soak them in Simple Green or something similar overnight then blow them out well with compressed air. I've never seen anyone disassemble them. At best you could get the top cap off but I don't think I would.


----------



## controlfreak

> CF - I would soak them in Simple Green or something similar overnight then blow them out well with compressed air. I ve never seen anyone disassemble them. At best you could get the top cap off but I don t think I would.
> 
> - HokieKen


So the remedy for any miter box ills is to clean and polish the moving parts & guides and anything that need lube only gets dry lube, no wet oils to attract and hold wood dust? What about using wax like is used on cast iron? I have some renaissance on the shelf.


----------



## theoldfart

I clean the post mounts with a gun cleaning brass brush. The post slots are cleaned with a green scotchbright and a smaller brass brush is good for reaming out the insides of the posts. I do not use any lubricants. I do use a small dab of white lithium grease on the king bolt.

Edit: these are my weapons of choice relative to cleaning mitre boxes.




























I'll slide a fine scotch brite in the post slots to clean them after cleaning the insides with the brush.

Hope this helps.


----------



## HokieKen

Your bench looks a lot like mine Kev - A Deschutes coaster with an empty glass on it ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> So the remedy for any miter box ills is to clean and polish the moving parts & guides and anything that need lube only gets dry lube, no wet oils to attract and hold wood dust? What about using wax like is used on cast iron? I have some renaissance on the shelf.
> 
> - controlfreak


That was the cure for mine CF minus the dry lube, I didn't even use that. Just paste wax on the king bolt. I use Johnsons Paste Wax but I think Renaissance wax should be fine. If dust doesn't stick to it on your table saw etc. it shouldn't stick to it on your miter box either. I use it to "lube" the gears on my table saw and on all my cast iron tops without any issues.


----------



## JethroBodean

The original Deschutes Brewery in Bend Oregon is just a 3 hour drive from my shop. I had no idea that you folks on the 'right' side of the country knew about them. We don't have nearly as good tool picking out here, but we do have a lot of great beers. Come on by anytime!


----------



## HokieKen

Deschutes actually has a distribution center and tasting room here in Roanoke with plans to open a full brewery in the future. They aren't a local brewery but they have really jumped in with both feet in the community so they get a lot of love around here. Fresh Squeezed IPA is one of my regular shop buddies 

And you have to go a good deal north of here for good tool pickin'. It's crap down here below the mason dixon..


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, Willamette damnit!

Spent some time in Bend last year, ate at Deschutes every night! I live for Black Butte porter and Obsidian Stout.


----------



## theoldfart

A Langdon in parts!


----------



## RWE

Well you fellows need to come visit Birmingham AL and I will treat you to a *Good People Coffee Oatmeal Stout*. It will put hair on your chest. I am glad that I graduated from high school and college before these craft breweries started up.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know about you but I still would have been drinking the cheap stuff in HS and college. I couldn't have afforded good beer


----------



## controlfreak

> A Langdon in parts!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


I am looking for the "king bolt" that I keep hearing about, is it the main pivot point I assume?


----------



## theoldfart

On the old Langdons it's the back post holder. The All Steels like yours it's an actual bolt that goes through the gib assembly. Once it's set there is another smaller square head bolt that tightens against the king bolt.


----------



## theoldfart

Correction on the above comment.

The back post serves as the pivot on the Northampton Langdon, not all Langdons.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, not on my Langson box. I was gonna check before I questioned your wisdom but looks like you already checked ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

I need to pull out my Langdon price lists and check. I'm pretty sure the Acmes used a king bolt. I'll get back to the collective after a fairly exhaustive (read cursory) analysis.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's my 74 box:


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, Langdon Acme.

So, the Langdon (both Northampton and Miller's Falls) and the Langdon Improved (Miller's Falls) do not have a king bolt. The New Langdon and New Langdon Improved ( both Miller's Falls) along with the Langdon Acme have king bolts. One exception is the 15 1/2 which is called a Langdon but has a king bolt. For some odd reason the 16 1/2 is listed as a new Langdon and in fact does have a king bolt as well. And just for fun the Greenfield also has a king bolt but it's a Goodell product.

I have few more things to check but the above has most of it.


----------



## controlfreak

Ended up taking a dull utility knife blade to the grooves to scrape some crud out. Better movement but still not perfect. Checked board for square and it was so it can't be an angle problem. It just feels like the saw gets in more of a bind as I go deeper into a piece of oak. Maybe I need to check the set of the saw and tooth sharpness next now that I think about it.


----------



## theoldfart

Set could be causing bind. Is the wood wet? Also wax the saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Set of the saw is what I was thinking too. No, really!


----------



## controlfreak

Ahh, wax the saw. I will try that and try another saw. I just dread filing any fine tooth saw let alone fooling with the set. Maybe I should warm up with doing the same with my dovetail saw or doing something more fun like gnawing on barbwire. Oak was dry as far as I know.


----------



## HokieKen

How does the saw cut when it's not in the box CF? If it cuts straight but binds in the cut, probably needs more set. If it cuts easily but wanders to one side or the other, you probably just need to stone the set on the biased side lightly to even it out.


----------



## HokieKen

If you don't have, or have never had, a well tuned miter saw, I highly recommend biting the bullet and sending it to a saw doc to sharpen and set it for you. Bob Summerfield is fantastic but I'm not sure if he's taking on saw work right now or not. I finally got frustrated with trying to tune mine and sent it to him. I hate to admit failure and I hate spending money but my only regret was not taking Jon's advice when I bought the saw from him. He recommended me letting him ship it to Bob to tune before I ever even got it.

I think I can maintain the saw going forward but when it gets to a point that it needs anything more than a light filing, I'll probably ship it back to Montana again.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, there is a fellow running around, who claims anything larger than the smallest M-F Miter box , which he says is fine for cutting SMALL moldings…..anything larger is a Carpentry tool, NOT for "Fine Woodworking" tasks…..then he shows his sliding table, with miter jig sled..on his Hummer table saw….Really….?


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, if you guys continue to tout Bob's expertise he won't have time for my mitre saws!

He he. Bob's done several mitre saws for me, they're still sharp. He did grumble about eyesight when I sent him two 30" saws, must've recovered by now I guess. I have two split nut Northampton mitre saws going out shortly for full restoration. Both trashed by the PO.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, your letting Derek get under your skin. Rise above it, do what works for you.


----------



## theoldfart

Also, this is the worlds biggest long shot. Does anyone have a discarded Langdon gib arm? Can't be an Acme. I need the two set screws that adjust the saw height.


----------



## theoldfart

And then there were two!










Didn't realize I had most of the parts.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kevin - I do have an open spot on a shelf. I'm just saying.


----------



## BenDupre

So are both of those MF? Or is one a Northampton? My saw is lonely now.


----------



## theoldfart

Both are Northamptons.

Sorry boys, I have three lonely Northampton split nut saws!

I started accumulating Northampton Langdons partly because we lived where they were made. Walked by Leander Langdons house a lot.


----------



## HokieKen

I beg there's a nice fence behind his house.


----------



## bandit571

hmmm, downtown mall…a wooden mitrebox and saw.
.








"etch" on the saw itself…something about it being a Mustang brand….by Great Neck Tool Co.

Looks to have seen a few miles of use/abuse?

Only $15 for the set…

Same place a Millers Falls No. 77 came from..









Not just any No. 77, but..









They enclosed the gear box, too…


----------



## bandit571

Since I needed a cross cut done, today…started up the Stanley 358 Mitersaw…









Took maybe 10 full strokes to cut 1/2" thick Ash….as for IF I need a chuting board afterwards?









Nah, I'm happy as is….this is right off the saw.


----------



## drsurfrat

I just got a miter saw from an estate sale. When'd i got in in the light, it was a Langdon/Millers Falls. Before I mess with it, I wanted to see if it was special enough to preserve.

It seems to be 10tpi, and 20" from point to point of the teeth. I got a picture of the medallion, and the bolts seem to be like every other saw that i have. (What's a split nut?)

It has a Disston steel backstop.,

"*Henry Disston and Sons(arched) Cast Steel -Philada. USA-Warranteed*"

The etching on the plate:

"*Langdon Miter Box / Millers Falls / Mass. USA*"

and may have other stuff buried in the corrosion.

A Langdon site says No's 5, 18, and 27 boxes had 20 inch blades.

Another site says that the "& SONS" in the medallion was only up to 1917, is that true? that'd be kinda cool.

Anyone have any info on this? I don't quite know what to google.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, this was s one of my PO victims, but it's a good example of split nuts.


----------



## HokieKen

Mike, the 20" toothline probably makes that a 22" saw. You measure the spine length and ignore the clipped heel. I assume it's 4" under the spine?


----------



## drsurfrat

Thanks Kevin. mine do not look like that. (That's very disappointing, by the way, bummer)

Kenny, It is just shy of 4" by about a 1/16" The whole backstrap (?) is 21" long, nowhere near 22. Is i really pre-1917? Do I need to be careful with it?


----------



## HokieKen

It's a very good saw Mike if you have a box for it but I don't think there's anything particularly rare or collectible about it. Kev would have a better idea on that. Based on the Disston medallion site you linked, I'd say it would be pre-1917. But that was after Millers Falls acquired Langdon (1907) so the boxes and saws were being pumped out en masse.

All that said, the size does kinda give me pause. I'm guessing it's a 22" saw and maybe the spine doesn't run the full length of the plate? If it is really a 21" saw, that would be unique. You may have to remove the handle to determine the actual length but that can be a bad idea sometimes.


----------



## drsurfrat

The whole back is exposed, so the strap is visible. I will take more pics in a bit.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, the saw is fairly common type for mitre boxes. It would be considered a first line saw with the Disston name on it as opposed to a Warrantied Superior medallion. I have a preference for Simonds mitre saws. They are not as common as the Disstons.


----------



## theoldfart

EBay + a moment of weakness = AMBA! (Another mitre box again)

Hangs head in faux shame


----------



## HokieKen

Which one Kev? Was it the Marsh Langdon?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes. Hope it wasn't you i sniped.


----------



## Mosquito

if you have remorse and decide to part it out let me know Kevin 

(My Keen Kutter box is a Marsh and was the one that ended up with both sets of feet getting broken between shipping and insurance re-shipping)


----------



## HokieKen

Nope. I was watching it for some reason. Not sure why I put it on my list, I really didn't have any interest in buying it. Glad you got it though!


----------



## JethroBodean

> Mike, the 20" toothline probably makes that a 22" saw. You measure the spine length and ignore the clipped heel. I assume it s 4" under the spine?
> 
> - HokieKen





> Kenny, It is just shy of 4" by about a 1/16" The whole backstrap (?) is 21" long, nowhere near 22. Is i really pre-1917? Do I need to be careful with it?
> 
> - drsurfrat


Mike/Kenny
The length of a Mitre Saw is determined by the length of the plate. In the case of a mitre saw without a clipped heel the toothline length should basically be the saw size. The spine length in my experece is usually about 1" shy of the saw size. For clipped heel saws you need to add 2" to the toothline length for the saw size.

So based on the saw being a clipped heel, a Toothline of 20" and a 21" spine; you my friend have a 22" saw.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Jeff. I was thinking that the spine ran the full length of the plate but it's been a couple of years since I had the handle off one.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, I don't know if the Marsh Langdon and Marsh Keen Kuttter legs are similar. Let you know next week!


----------



## Johnny7

*And now a word from Henry Disston:*


----------



## Mosquito

I think you're right Kev, they don't quite look the same


----------



## drsurfrat

Thanks all. Now all I need is a miter box. Ha.


----------



## HokieKen

That saw is a good size for a Stanley 150 box Mike 

I got all excited when a 12" GP box popped up on ebay today. Then I saw the opening bid. And that it's in Canada.


----------



## drsurfrat

I have only been on this forum/site for less than a year, but it is great, both the attitude and the advice.

So, is $50 for a No 150 a good deal? And how do I know what is missing? I assume Stanley = oddball threads, but what else? Clearly I am new to miter boxes, but my freehand work just has to go.

?Que tal esto?


----------



## 1thumb

Dream on, but you can't have it. It's mine


----------



## RWE

I have three mitre boxes and love using them. My problem is finding space in my small shop to keep them set up. I currently have a Stanley 358 set up, but surrounded by so much shop junk as to be a project to use it. I plan to reform and get the area cleaned up so I can bring it back into regular use.

There is an intermediate position. Embrace the knife wall and use hand saws. Then put together a serious shooting board. Square your cuts with the shooting board.

A good backsaw (Tenon or Sash or whatever) will help make a square cut. I found a 12 PPI WS Panel saw that I love for clean cuts. I work small. Small shop. Boxes, small pieces of furniture. So the saw to a line and refine with the shooting board approach works, and the shooting board could clean up the mitre box cuts as well.

If you are going to be a hybrid woodworker, use the shooting board on cuts from your table saw as well.

Most of the fun in woodworking for me in the last several years is in using the old tools and researching and getting them back to usable shape. So everyone needs a mitre box to have a full and complete life. LOL, then some handsaws, learn to sharpen them, then planes, then chisels,, etc.


----------



## theoldfart

" So everyone needs a mitre box to have a full and complete life "

So my life is completely full! And more fullness coming!


----------



## HokieKen

> I have only been on this forum/site for less than a year, but it is great, both the attitude and the advice.
> 
> So, is $50 for a No 150 a good deal? And how do I know what is missing? I assume Stanley = oddball threads, but what else? Clearly I am new to miter boxes, but my freehand work just has to go.
> 
> ?Que tal esto?
> 
> - drsurfrat


That box is missing:

Leaf spring behind the saw guide (commonly missing, easy to make a replacement)
Wooden wheel and screw behind fence that prevents the saw from hitting the gib (commonly missing, easy to make and not necessary if you're careful)
Length stops and thumb screws (almost always missing, I'll be making some for my box one of these days)

With those things missing, I'd say $50 is a fair deal. However, that one is also missing the screw that locks the swing arm position on the front. It's just a knurled thumbscrew. I think I could easily copy mine for you.

All that said, unless you need one right away, I'd be a little patient. You should be able to get one that at least has the leaf spring and the locking screw for $50 or a bit less.


----------



## drsurfrat

Once again, thanks for the wisdom. I have time, and now at least know some things to look for if I see one in the wild.


----------



## HokieKen

> Dream on, but you can t have it. It s mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 1thumb


I have one of those Hitachi's too but mine doesn't slide ;-) Ain't gonna lie, when I'm cutting more than a couple of boards, it's a lifesaver


----------



## HokieKen

Any of you fellas have a framing box along these lines?









I was building a mitered frame for a box top last week and thinking that for small pieces that I wanted dead 90 degree miter joints on, it might be worthwhile to have around. I wouldn't want to have another saw to store though so I'd want one that I could use a tenon saw on. Just wondering if anybody uses one and if so, do you follow it with a miter trimmer or shooting board or just go straight to assembly right off the saw?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have one. Used for clamping pieces together after cutting them w/ mitrebox. Piston rods slide freely up and down, no resistance or stops on mine. YMMV.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Smitty. I have a corner clamp along those lines that I use for assembling mitered corners. Just not sure if sawing on the same thing I'm clamping on would ensure more accuracy. Seems like it would assuming it clamps pieces at true 90. Even if the angle wasn't dead 45 as long as you cut one piece on each side, the joint should still end up square. Of course it still has to be made well enough to cut a straight line…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Maybe I haven't given the device it's due. But I did try to use it a couple of times, and the feedback from the Pistons just wasn't up to par when what with what I was used to on a miter box.

I recall clamping two pieces that were "close" to being right into the device, and cutting them to get a clean line between. That seemed to work fairly well.

Maybe time to revisit?


----------



## HokieKen

Maybe Smitty. But, if the guide pistons aren't right and tight, it's a dealbreaker IMO. That goes for a regular miter box too though.


----------



## RWE

I have one. Mine is a Marsh Mitre Picture Frame box. This was a big topic further back in this thread. Some folks had acquired the ruler that attaches to the box, others had picked up some special clamping blocks that work with it.

For my part, the model that I have had very narrow slits in the posts and would not accept a conventional thickness saw. POA put me on an ad on Ebay for a saw that was described to fit a Marsh box. I contacted them and sure enough the saw was thin enough to work. So I purchased that saw. Most of the Marsh boxes had conventional thickness saw guides, but mine had the very thin slots. I speculate that it was an option that allowed the use of a thin kerf saw for finer cuts.

If the one that you are looking at has the same thin saw guides, you will play havoc trying to find a saw, but I would bet it has the conventional posts. I can do measurements if you need them.

Don W. has one as I recall.

The box was given to me and I have not used it much. Now that I am trying my hand at carving, I am thinking that it might be fun to make some frames with carved designs.

The saw that I got came from a picture framing outfit in the north central part of the country. If you could operate a business using the Marsh box and that saw, I expect the results would be very good, quality joints. Makes me want to go out and do some experimenting.

Check up the thread for "Marsh" and you will find that series of posts. The fellow that got the ruler and clamping blocks may be a serious user and could give you some feedback.


----------



## theoldfart

Do you know if Stanley made any significant changes to the Marsh unit when they bought it? Had a chance to buy a complete Marsh with the ruler and stops. Didn't. Regret it now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> This was a big topic further back in this thread. Some folks had acquired the ruler that attaches to the box, others had picked up some special clamping blocks that work with it.
> 
> Check up the thread for "Marsh" and you will find that series of posts. The fellow that got the ruler and clamping blocks may be a serious user and could give you some feedback.
> 
> - RWE


I remember coveting those rulers and clamping blocks for short time, now that you mention it. Thanks for the reminder!


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for that feedback RWE. I wasn't looking at any box in particular. May not be looking for one at all but now I'll know to watch for that if I do look at a Marsh


----------



## RWE

Smitty: Get back on the hunt and find the ruler and clamping blocks. Actually find two sets and send me one. I really wanted the ruler.

Some time ago in a dream or on the internet, somewhere, I thought that I saw a similar platform to the Marsh but without saw guides that was meant to be a clamping mechanism for mitered corners. In my dream if was a Stanley product. Very vague memory. Anyone else ever see this, or am I slipping away into a dream world.


----------



## HokieKen

Something like this one RWE?


----------



## RWE

That's it. I am not insane. My memory is foggy but still functions.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive ;-p


----------



## RWE

Nice comments from a man that wears a cape! Maybe we are both due a checkup at the clinic.


----------



## RWE

As my professor used to say after he cracked wise: "Just a little levity, very little levity".


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I was referring to the clown in the cape ;-p


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Trying.









Optimal toothline sweetspot is 4.75" from spine.









No stops otherwise.









But it does work.


----------



## Johnny7

Smitty,

Seeing your post reminded me of something I've been meaning to try but haven't gotten around to yet.
These guys

https://skowheganwoodenrule.com/flat-rulers/

sell hard maple rulers, 1/4" by 1½" in lengths from 12"-72" 
(they also sell yardsticks, but those are only 1" wide)
Two pins in each arm pass through the Stanley-original rulers, and the end of the ruler tucks under a rabbet cast into the arm.
One would need to cut a length off the new ruler (I believe it starts at 7 3/8")
One would also (ideally) drill and sleeve two holes to fit over the pins.
Anyway, just a thought for anyone looking to roughly duplicate the hard-to-find factory rulers.
Here are a few pics to help explain everything.



















One last thing - the only thing harder to find than the rulers, are the ruler guides. Something would have to be fabricated.


----------



## RWE

Johnny7:

Thanks for that source for rulers. I will look into that.

Can you give a brief idea of what a "ruler guide" is? Is that a stop block type of thing?


----------



## HokieKen

Wow Smitty, that's a bigger saw than I was envisioning for a box like that. I was thinking more like a 4" saw if not smaller. I don't know why I had that impression but I did. Out of curiousity, what's the distance between guides? That joint looks right and tight 

That's a cool source for rulers Johnny. Thanks for that link. That's a great idea for replacing the ones on those boxes too. Anybody have the ruler guides they can post a pic of? Just wondering if something like this would work?


----------



## Johnny7

> Johnny7:
> 
> Thanks for that source for rulers. I will look into that.
> 
> Can you give a brief idea of what a "ruler guide" is? Is that a stop block type of thing?
> 
> - RWE


*RWE,*

I think a "stop block" is a good analogy.
Here's a photo (not mine)










In the manual, Stanley calls it a "rule gauge"

By the way, my reading of the manual indicates that the machine (No 100) came with only one ruler, which was to be switched from side to side as needed.

One last point, some may find of interest: unlike those auction site photos where sellers have the saw backwards in the mitre box, on the No. 100 (or pre-Stanley Marsh equivalent) it was intended that the saw could be inserted in the guides from either side as the job (moulding) called for.


----------



## Johnny7

> Anybody have the ruler guides they can post a pic of? Just wondering if something like this would work?
> 
> - HokieKen


*HK,*

It's tough finding a decent photo, but from this you can get an idea.










Here's another shot from a late '60s repair parts catalog









It looks to me like the casting has an arm facing each direction, so that when the ruler is flipped around (and turned over?) an arm indicates the length in inches, as well as acting as a stop.

I imagine your stop would work, but I'm kind of a purist when it comes to old tools. Kind of the same reason I don't allow plastic storage containers in my shop.


----------



## HokieKen

Agreed Johnny, if it was mine, I'd want to replicate the original. That's a cool design too. Looks like it's made to butt a 45 up against it to trim the second end. You could accomplish it with a straight across stop too but it wouldn't have the support and could dub the sharp corner on softer woods.


----------



## Johnny7

> Agreed Johnny, if it was mine, I d want to replicate the original. That s a cool design too. Looks like it s made to butt a 45 up against it to trim the second end. You could accomplish it with a straight across stop too but it wouldn t have the support and could dub the sharp corner on softer woods.
> 
> - HokieKen


Excellent observation-I was wondering why they'd make it so ornate


----------



## theoldfart

And I was successfully resisting the urge to procure one of these till now. Thanks a lot guys;-)


----------



## RWE

While we are on the subject, my Marsh was a bare bones relic that a friend had sitting in a shed for over a decade. So knowing I was in to woodworking, he presented it to me. I got the saw as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

My big question now is what is the utility of the clamping spacer?? The only thing I can think of is that it would keep you from having to turn the clamping screw as much if you were in production and shifted from narrow stock to wide stock, you could just remove it and clamp the wider piece with as much fuss and winding. From what I have seen, the surface area that engages the wood is not much different from what is built on the clamp.

I think it was invented to make me feel incomplete and jealous, just don't see a lot of practical benefit.

What is your idea about it. Is it smoother or presents a narrower face for clamping smaller boards?


----------



## Mosquito

> And I was successfully resisting the urge to procure one of these till now. Thanks a lot guys;-)
> 
> - theoldfart


Right? lol I've passed on a few, but now I feel like I shouldn't have


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, the most recent one I passed on was complete as in with rulers and two stops.

It was $50 on Craigs List from a former frame maker.

Yea I know, STUPID!


----------



## Johnny7

*OF*

Your effort to resist was always destined to fail-I have no idea how many you know have, but feel certain you will end up with one of each.

*RWE*

Good question. I think they are intended to clamp against the rabbeted (glass-supporting) area of certain moldings, but that's just a guess.

The only manual I have access to, says: "The low or auxilliary clamp is slipped over the regular clamp for use with certain moldings that are not readily gripped by the latter."

I took a look at mine, and the strangest part is that one side is stamped "This side up" even though they appear absolutely symmetrical.


----------



## DLK

More pictures of the Stanley-Marsh rule gauge (not mine).





































If someone finds one or makes a reproduction. I REALLY WANT ONE. Plus a matching pair of low clamps. I have a red one and a blue one and they differ a tab in width, but I can get by with them.


----------



## theoldfart

Johnny, as far as Langdon and all their iterations that is true


----------



## Johnny7

> More pictures of the Stanley-Marsh rule gauge (not mine).
> 
> If someone finds one or makes a reproduction. I REALLY WANT ONE.
> 
> - Combo Prof


*CP*,

Good pics-tough to find any close-ups of that thing.
Ideally, if someone got ahold of one, it would be easy enough to have someone either CNC machine one (say aluminum) or make a mold and then castings from the original.


----------



## Johnny7

> Johnny, as far as Langdon and all their iterations that is true
> 
> - theoldfart


*OF,*

I am well aware of, (and impressed by), your work in that niche area of miter boxes.
My prediction is that, having accumulated everything from those makers, you will turn your attention to-oh, I don't know-Stanleys, maybe?


----------



## HokieKen

Do you have a Miter Planer Kev? That's my unicorn…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> More pictures of the Stanley-Marsh rule gauge (not mine).
> 
> If someone finds one or makes a reproduction. I REALLY WANT ONE.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> *CP*,
> 
> Good pics-tough to find any close-ups of that thing.
> Ideally, if someone got ahold of one, it would be easy enough to have someone either CNC machine one (say aluminum) or make a mold and then castings from the original.
> 
> - Johnny7


Ditto, to all of the above.

And 20 lashes with a wet noodle to Kevin for not getting an example with rulers and stops! What were you thinking!?


----------



## Johnny7

> And 20 lashes with a wet noodle to Kevin for not getting an example with rulers and stops! What were you thinking!?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks Smitty, I didn't want to say it.


----------



## DLK

I finally got the ruler from Jon Hall just befor he past. Cost me $100. The rest of the miter box also cost me $100.
What was Jon's name on LJ?


----------



## DLK

> More pictures of the Stanley-Marsh rule gauge (not mine).
> 
> If someone finds one or makes a reproduction. I REALLY WANT ONE.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> *CP*,
> 
> Good pics-tough to find any close-ups of that thing.
> Ideally, if someone got ahold of one, it would be easy enough to have someone either CNC machine one (say aluminum) or make a mold and then castings from the original.
> 
> - Johnny7


I've been looking so long for a ruler gauge that I don't remember where I found these pictures. I should have kept track.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, Jons LJ name was POA.

Johnny, well I do have an early Trauts mitre box. Second iteration, legs are not bronze.

Kenny, yes that is something I hope to acquire some day. Maybe Smitty will give his up in a fit of rage 

Edit: Brain fart, Smitty has the 51/52 combo .I've never laid eyes on the Rogers mitre cutter.


----------



## DLK

Yes POA thank you. I miss him.


----------



## Johnny7

> Johnny, well I do have an early Trauts mitre box. Second iteration, legs are not bronze.
> 
> - theoldfart


Perfect-so you'll start at the beginning at acquire each model in chronological order!


----------



## theoldfart

> Johnny, well I do have an early Trauts mitre box. Second iteration, legs are not bronze.
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> Perfect-so you ll start at the beginning at acquire each model in chronological order!
> 
> Don, as do I.
> 
> - Johnny7


I could. Will you handle either my divorce proceedings or the liquidation of my estate?


----------



## Johnny7

> I could. Will you handle either my divorce proceedings or the liquidation of my estate?
> 
> - theoldfart


Well, I do have my J.D.


----------



## theoldfart

I'll keep that in mind!


----------



## HokieKen

I already called dibs on Smitty's Kev! Hands off!


----------



## theoldfart

No worries Kenny, I have my LN 51 to keep me company.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The reports of my (eminent) death are greatly exaggerated.


----------



## DLK

^ "which way" LOL


----------



## HokieKen

I sure hope so Smitty. I'd probably feel a little bad breaking into a dead man's shop ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, glad your still here, we were just talking about you!


----------



## bandit571

Headcount…

Millers Falls Langdon No. 75
Stanley No. 346
Stanley No. 358
Stanley No. 2246

A Jorgensen ( saw looks like a giant hacksaw)
And a GEM folding mitre box….

There is one other, stored away….carpenters would clamp it to either the board, or the ladder…

E.O.E. Just like with my planes, and saws….


----------



## Notw

So if someone desired to get a miterbox for making 90 degree and 45 degree crosscuts and they were a fan of Stanley hand tools which would be a good one to look for?

Years ago I built a miterbox for pullsaws but it only has a capacity of a couple of inches, i would like to have something a little larger.


----------



## HokieKen

The only Stanley box I have any experience with is the 150. Mark Harrell sums it up pretty nicely and has a link to the owner's manual here. I don't have the Bad Axe saw to go with mine but I like it for the reasons he does. Mostly because it is more compact and fits under my bench better than my larger Langdon box and you can use virtually any handsaw with it that you want.


----------



## Johnny7

> So if someone desired to get a miterbox for making 90 degree and 45 degree crosscuts and they were a fan of Stanley hand tools which would be a good one to look for?
> 
> Years ago I built a miterbox for pullsaws but it only has a capacity of a couple of inches, i would like to have something a little larger.
> 
> - Notw


You may or may not know that the 3-digit numbering system for Stanley boxes represents three pieces of information:
1st digit: the frame size of the box
2nd digit: the height of the saw under the spine
3rd digit: the 2nd digit of the length of the saw in inches, assuming the length starts with "20" (ex. a "6" is a 26" saw). One exception being the Model 360 & 460 boxes, wherein the "0" indicates a 30" saw.

You should probably choose a box based on the capacity you think you'll need, given these stats.
See also, the following chart for specific examples of capabilities


----------



## bandit571

Head Count Photos…









Left: Stanley No. 346, Right: Stanley No. 2246









Stanley No. 358









Langdon No. 75….









Someone else has a GEM?









Metal guides….90 and miter cuts, fold up and stash in the tool chest, when done
Modern Era?









You can even walk into Lowes right now, and by the Red Craftsman version…..









This one does have both sets of hold-downs….

take your pick…..I had to re-assemble the Jorgensen for the photo op…


----------



## bandit571

Stanley No. 358….Long saw = fewer strokes to make a cut…..


----------



## theoldfart

Something to ponder on mitre box lore.

This is Leander Langdons first iron mitre box










This mitre box is currently on EBay










See any similarities?


----------



## HokieKen

I saw that one Kev. Thought the way the front guide slides on the rail instead of swinging in an arc was pretty cool.


----------



## theoldfart

The Marsh Langdon made it without damage. Doin' the happy dance.


----------



## BenDupre

How bout some photos? I'm interested in knowing how it fits into the family tree. THANKS!


----------



## JethroBodean

> The Marsh Langdon made it without damage. Doin the happy dance.


I'd enjoy some photos too. ...Of you 'Doin the happy dance.'


----------



## theoldfart

Here is the Marsh New Langdon sitting alongside a New Improved Langdon.










The only glaring difference between the New Langdon and New Langdon Improved is the curved stock guides. The same holds true for the Marsh versions.



















The box to the right of the Marsh in the above picture is a Keen Kutter made by Marsh based on the Marsh Ayer mitre box. The similarities are obvious. I have a bit of cleaning to do but only two small items are missing a set screw and a unique spring wire that tensions the saw blade. More on that later.










This was the best I could do on the happy dance


----------



## Johnny7

> Something to ponder on mitre box lore.
> 
> This is Leander Langdons first iron mitre box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This mitre box is currently on EBay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See any similarities?
> 
> - theoldfart


Boy, that's intriguing.


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Kevin, the two side by side definitely make them look a lot more similar than comparing an ebay listing to my pictures lol


----------



## JethroBodean

That sliding front post is not dissimilar to the Stanley 2360 metal cutting mitre box.


----------



## HokieKen

This is some serious sexy. The price is laughable but if I had a complete lack of financial responsibility I'd be all over it


----------



## HokieKen

> That sliding front post is not dissimilar to the Stanley 2360 metal cutting mitre box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JethroBodean


I missed this post last week Jeff. Funny though, I have one on my watchlist on Ebay. It seems a little steep at $100 without a saw? Not sure I really need one but I do use a hacksaw quite often and normally it would be convenient to cut square ends. Is there anything special about the saw or will any hacksaw with that style frame fit the box?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, beautiful. But what a price!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Smitty, the Cocobolo deck and base really add some pizzaz to that thing. But even with $50 worth of wood and what was probably a $200 saw when they made them, that price probably even gives Kev pause. And there's not even a Best Offer option so they're sticking to it :-/


----------



## Mosquito

I would agree, it looks great, too much


----------



## theoldfart

> Yeah Smitty, the Cocobolo deck and base really add some pizzaz to that thing. But even with $50 worth of wood and what was probably a $200 saw when they made them, that price probably even gives Kev pause. And there s not even a Best Offer option so they re sticking to it :-/
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny, even the 1,000 one is absurd and if I'm not mistaken it even has an incorrect post. The back one has a drilled hole so probably from a 15 1/2.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, I saw that one too Kev. I put them on my watchlist just to see how long it takes for the seller to drop the price and what they ultimately end up selling for.


----------



## KentInOttawa

FLAGGED

worldnewsnow 
11 posts in 65 minutes


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## HokieKen

Anybody have experience with this Marsh framing box? I have pretty much decided against adding another miter box to my shop unless it's a really small one like the 15-1/2, 16-1/2 or the small GP. But the seller sent me an offer on this one at a significant discount so I thought I'd give it a fair shake before declining.


----------



## JethroBodean

> Is there anything special about the saw or will any hacksaw with that style frame fit the box?
> 
> - HokieKen


Kenny - I stumbled across my 2360 at a junk store for $5.00. I knew nothing about it and assumed any hack saw would work. Wrong. It very specifically needs to be a non-adjustable saw, with the spine being a single bar. It took me more than a year to find my "Bell Systems" hack saw to pair with it. That is not the 'original' saw for the box, but it does work. It was a $2.00 Habitat/Restore find. Just dumb luck in both cases.










BTW: I suppose that a few of the adjustable hack saws MIGHT work, as long as the adjustable mechanism is at one end of the spine rather than the middle. Something like this West Haven/F. S. Bradley.
Extension Frame Hacksaw:


----------



## RWE

That Marsh looks complete and clean enough. I have one, but Smitty is the one with more user experience. Thread post #5312 and that range has a discussion.

The price looks good.

I want you to get it, get obsessed by it and fabricate the optional clamping blocks and perhaps an aluminum ruler to fit. While you are at it, go ahead and make me a set.


----------



## Johnny7

> Anybody have experience with "this Marsh framing box I have pretty much decided against adding another miter box to my shop unless it s a really small one like the 15-1/2, 16-1/2 or the small GP. But the seller sent me an offer on this one at a significant discount so I thought I d give it a fair shake before declining.
> 
> - HokieKen


This is the predecessor to the Stanley No 100 (Stanley bought Marsh in the late '20s). One clamp wheel has cracked and broken collar section. These early models lack bearings, upon which the saw spine rides. Lastly, the ruler sections affixed at right angles appear shorter than the Stanley. If this is the case, and you acquired OEM Stanley rules, they wouldn't fit.


----------



## theoldfart

Johnny, your post for most people would kill the deal. Kenny however will feel a challenge has been given and will emulate Sisyphus in his pursuit of mitre machine perfection.


----------



## Johnny7

> Johnny, your post for most people would kill the deal. Kenny however will feel a challenge has been given and will emulate Sisyphus in his pursuit of mitre machine perfection.
> 
> - theoldfart


Nice- we need more greek mythological references on this site!


----------



## HokieKen

Nah, the busted clamp wheel doesn't seem like a functional hinderance and the boxes I already have lack bearings in the saw guides and it hasn't been a problem at all. And I wouldn't be wanting the rulers anyway. That would make it larger to store or leave loose parts laying around to loose.

Seller sent me an offer for $20 less than the list price which seems like a fair deal. But I think I'll still pass. I'm Sisyphusing enough at present anyway. Don't need another tool that needs to be prettied up and/or repaired/tuned ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks for the info. on the hacksaw box Jethro. It's not really a "need" at all but I will keep an eye out for a really good deal on one. I'll make sure to watch for one with the saw too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Nah, the busted clamp wheel doesn t seem like a functional hinderance and the boxes I already have lack bearings in the saw guides and it hasn t been a problem at all. And I wouldn t be wanting the rulers anyway. That would make it larger to store or leave loose parts laying around to loose.
> 
> - HokieKen


Either both wheels are broken or one is double-busted. I'm jealous his posts stay in place when extended. Base, with tilt and swivel, is a dead on match with my Stanley 100. It does look like the choice of compatible saw is more varied than mine as well. Post toos are missing the sliding stops.

I'd say it's worth the much-reduced offer price.


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## HokieKen

Well now dammit Smitty, I had made my mind up to let it go now you make me reconsider! I still think it's too much for a tool I'm not really sure I even want/need and don't have a convenient place to store it. Not that I don't think it's a very fair price but with shipping I'd be in for $60+ and that's more than I want to invest in a "hey, I may use this one day" tool ;-)

I'll probably regret it in the near future and wind up buying one for twice that amount but I'll burn that bridge when I get there ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

> More pictures of the Stanley-Marsh rule gauge (not mine).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someone finds one or makes a reproduction. I REALLY WANT ONE. Plus a matching pair of low clamps. I have a red one and a blue one and they differ a tab in width, but I can get by with them.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I don't know how badly you REALLY WANT ONE but here's one~ if you want it that bad…


----------



## Treefarmer

My father's and grandfather's before him. The reason I've never bought a power miter saw.

Every time I use I think of my Dad….never knew my grandfather but the fact that he wrapped his hand around that handle 1,000's of times gives me some connection









.


----------



## Johnny7

> Either both wheels are broken or one is double-busted.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Looks like only one handwheel has both problems.
Here's a quote from the description: " ...one of the handles has a break & crack …"


----------



## theoldfart

Bob, your the third generation on that mitre box and saw. That's outstanding. Looks like a Goodell All Steel. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## BenDupre

Okay take two.

Found a newer Disston on ebay. This one is marked "Millers Falls Mass" and is a 5 inch deep by 28 inch saw. I seem to have the opposite problem as before. I am dragging just slightly on the jib (I think this part is the jib). Kevin thanks for pointing out the depth adjustment screws. I think my box may be missing one. I am also sure there are dome depth stops missing that go on the posts. Any suggestions?




























The saw is in good shape but has it's own issues. But is it the right mate for this box?























































Appears to have a battlefield handle repair, and an extra hole in the plate which makes me wonder if this handle goes on this plate.

Suppose one didn't like the screws in the handle: would you attempt to take it apart and glue it/dowel it?

Glad to have y'alls expert advice. THANKS


----------



## HokieKen

Let's see the other side of the guides Ben. That's where the depth stops to prevent the saw from hitting the gib should be.










At least I *think* your box had that style.


----------



## HokieKen

Regarding the saw, yes I would remove the screws and try doweling it. Or just make a new handle unless there's something unique/collectible about that saw.


----------



## BenDupre

Ken,

I do not have tapped holes on either side of the guides.










Just thumbscrews on the posts.

As far as the handle goes: It really looks to me like the crack isn't too bad, like I can probably use the same broken piece, instead of gluing on new wood. I can try doweling and if that fails, guess I learn how to make a handle. Wouldn't know where to find apple wood though.

Can't figure the extra hole in the plate though. This looks like the proper handle. Has anyone ever seen a 4-hole Disston backsaw?


----------



## JethroBodean

> Let s see the other side of the guides Ben. That s where the depth stops to prevent the saw from hitting the gib should be.
> 
> - HokieKen


There are usually (assuming they are not MIA) two different depth control pieces on each post; a 'Saw Stop' and a 'Depth Gauge'. On all of the boxes I am familiar with, they should be sedtup so that they are opposite sides of the saw.

You set the Saw Stops to prevent the saw from hitting the gib.
The Depth Gauge is used to control the depth of the cut you want in the wood.


----------



## JethroBodean

> Can t figure the extra hole in the plate though. This looks like the proper handle. Has anyone ever seen a 4-hole Disston backsaw?
> 
> - BenDupre


Ben - The 28" and 30 " Disston Mitre saws had 4 screws, but that hole certainly does not look like the right location to me.

This is from the 1932 Catalog


----------



## BenDupre

I think is just an older box. It does not have any accommodation for the "saw stops" described. Just the depth stops. Although those have gone missing. Maybe guides from a later box can be had and used?

This saw does have at least one "saw stop" in the form of a small headless screw under the post. I cannot tell without some disassembly, but one of them may have broken off. I can't see a screw or a place for one to go. There is a pass-through in the lever to allow adjustment of the absent screw. (see photos above)


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Jethro, I just assumed Ben had his guides turned 180 degrees which is possible if you are missing the depth stops. But based on his last post, sounds like his has a totally different type of saw stop. I guess we'll have to wait for Kev Langdon to dazzle us with his knowledge ;-p Maybe the depth stops served double duty on that saw?

Ben, it's possible your extra hole was a hanger hole. Fellas using these saws 100+ years ago were awfully inconsiderate about keeping them original and unmodified for our later consumption…


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhh, now I see Ben. So you adjust that set screw in/out to control how far down the guides are able to travel? Pretty simple and effective. Kind of a pain to adjust if the box is screwed down to a board or bench but still effective 

Kev, can you clarify whether Ben is missing a set screw? Looks to me as if he is. If it's a common thread size, you can cut the head off a screw and slot the end with a hacksaw to make a replacement. If it's not a common size/pitch, let me know and I'll make you one.


----------



## BenDupre

Ken,

I would have put a hanger hole at the other end.

JB

That catalog page seems to say that all 28/30 in saws had 4 holes. But the location though..


----------



## HokieKen

I'll measure to verify later but my 5×28 saw only has 3 screws…









Mine is very possible produced after 1932 though. It is not original to the box. It's also possible it's a 26" saw but I'm pretty sure it's 28.


----------



## BenDupre

Measure the toothline and add two. That is what I have learnt


----------



## theoldfart

Ben. Give me a few minutes and I'll clear up any confusion on your box. FYI, you have a New Langdon Improved circa 1882 to about a 1904.


----------



## bandit571

Saw that came with my Millers Falls Langdon 75…..with a disston etch…

















Even had the Millers Falls Triangle Logo decal on the handle…



























This is a 5×30 saw, BTW….









Of course, when I spend $15 for something like this, I expect the stand to come along…

























ACME 2-1/2 SIZE….No. 75


----------



## theoldfart

I have the same box Ben,









The set screws set the gap between the saw teeth and the slot in the gib.

On the right side of the posts as your looking at the box are longer guides. They set the saw height for tenon and lap joints allowing you to cut part way through the stock at a uniform depth.,










Those set screws are an odd thread, something like 3/16×28. I could use a few so maybe we could convince Kenny to make a batch!

Hope this helps.


----------



## BenDupre

Kevin that's it. I went looking for them but only found one. At the toe end. I can't tell if the one in the heel post is broken off. What do you think about the 28 inch saw? does that seem like a good match? It's marked Langdon/Millers Falls Mass. I might want to sell the older split-nut Northampton saw. Haven't seen one in the "sold" searches on EBAY so I can't asses if there's a market or what to price it at.

I did offer it to Jim Bode Tools and they passed on it. Kind of makes me think it's a white elephant.


----------



## HokieKen

Is it #10-28 threads Kev? Can you check with the brass screws I turned a while back for you? If so, no problem to make some for you guys. If it's not that thread size, you'll have to send me one to take measurements off of to copy.


----------



## CL810

That's a great story and connection Bob. Thanks for posting.



> My father s and grandfather s before him. The reason I ve never bought a power miter saw.
> 
> Every time I use I think of my Dad….never knew my grandfather but the fact that he wrapped his hand around that handle 1,000 s of times gives me some connection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> - Bob Babcock


----------



## BenDupre

Ken you can make screws for Kevin but they aren't going to help me. My front post is missing the boss the screw would thread into. Must have broken off at some time. There is a replacement part from MJD toolparts on ebay I might buy. However this is getting spensive. I gave $50 for the box and the saw, then bought a new saw for $35 and now it needs new post assy for $42 and the depth stops are $38. Is it worth all that? Im sure it's not thats why MJD toolparts chop these things up.

I did see a millers falls langdon box with the fancy cast backstops on the bay for $240. Wonder if there's anyone out there with a Northampton box pining for a saw…


----------



## bandit571

Along with a bunch of cheapy mitre boxes….looked at this saw…









Another one with the saw in bas-ackwards….and wanting $45 + tax for it…..too many things missing…


----------



## drsurfrat

Yea, mjdtoolparts is *insanely* expensive.

I just took a triangle file to a 1/4-20 bolt to make a Stanley front knob but that is , i think, #10-20 or #12-20, which doesn't exist in the real world


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Along with a bunch of cheapy mitre boxes….looked at this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another one with the saw in bas-ackwards….and wanting $45 + tax for it…..too many things missing…
> 
> - bandit571


Depending on how much effort you're willing to invest, you could easily part that one out on eBay and turn a *small *profit. The tree/repeater for the length stop typically sells there for US$45 or more.


----------



## JethroBodean

I'm in the midst of debating with myself on getting a 460, with saw, that is missing all the same pieces, plus missing the tree, for $40.00. The draw for me is the #4 frame, I've not seen one of those before, out here on the left coast.

Follow up note: I waited too long to snag the 460, it is no longer listed! Such is the life of a non-collector!


----------



## Notw

So I just ordered a Stanley no. 150 miter box without saw, It will obviously need some restoring. Now I am wondering which saw to go with for it. By the looks of the literature on the miter box about any saw will work, just looking for advice on what to look for and what those of you that have a 150 use in it. Not wanting to break the bank


----------



## HokieKen

I bought my 150 box specifically for the compactness so I like a smaller saw for it. 4×22 is the size I have. I will say though, I've used my 5×28 saw with it too and it worked well too. Bad Axe makes a 20 inch saw designed specifically with the 150 box in mind if you really want to break the bank ;-p


----------



## DLK

> More pictures of the Stanley-Marsh rule gauge (not mine).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someone finds one or makes a reproduction. I REALLY WANT ONE. Plus a matching pair of low clamps. I have a red one and a blue one and they differ a tab in width, but I can get by with them.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I don t know how badly you REALLY WANT ONE but here s one~ if you want it that bad…
> 
> - HokieKen


It arrived today. Took me a while to commit to buying it, but I finally succumbed to the peer pressure. It came packed in a box 100 times bigger than necessary. No joke. Outside double wrapped. Inside wrapped with 10 feet or so of bubble wrap and multiple layers of plastic tape. And then padded with brown packing paper. I guess I know why it cost so much. I will post pictures once I get the work bench cleared. I built a lathe station with dust collection and I think I have out every tool in my shop on the bench. Quite a mess.


----------



## HokieKen

Well there ya go then  Congrats on the acquisition Don!


----------



## bandit571

Went and double checked that antique store Mitrebox &Saw…









Appears to be a #358….with a red "Stanley" label. Missing the top connecting bar, and both stock holders…price was still $45…+tax….pass…


----------



## controlfreak

It is time to start working on the miter box. Is there any school of thought as to what size board I should attach it to? I am thinking I may make a base that is somewhat like a bench hook and enough over hang on the back to land a hold fast to secure it.


----------



## DLK

The problem I have with bench hooks is that when you move off the bench it to a shelf it does not lie flat. So you have to have an additional board to slip under it. On the other hand a bench hook is ideal for a miter box because there is a lot of forward pressure when sawing. Otherwise the board just needs to be big enough to fix it to the bench to the bench with clamps, screws or bench hooks. You need to think about how it will be fixed to the bench and also where and how you will store it when not in use. Then design your board appropriately.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree with Don's reasoning on bench hooks. If it's not an issue for you, go for it. I don't like how it prevents the saw from sitting flat when stored though. I just put a flat board on mine with just enough overhang on each side to get a holdfast somewhere to sit. A holdfast on each end has always been sufficient holding power for me.


----------



## KentInOttawa

My box is screwed down to a 30"+ chunk of stair riser. This has two 2 1/2" screws holding it in position on whatever I put it on. On the rare occasions that I need to move it, I just back off the two screws.










There are also two notches cut out of the front of the base board so that I can use clamps with a different surface if I want to. The notches are strategically placed to fit around the plastic dogs in the top of my workmate clone. It does fit there, but I find that setup too wobbly for me.

Overall, this setup works sufficiently well enough for me.


----------



## controlfreak

Thanks guys, I think I will try the flat bottom and see how the hold fasts work. If they give me any trouble I'll add a hook later.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Baseboard trim out via GP today.










Five rooms, two bathrooms, two closets.

Portable, safe, quiet, accurate.


----------



## siemensgeek

I went to Habitat Restore the other day to buy a crock pot to use as a hide glue pot. I found one for $3. I should have left then but I decided to look around. This Stanley miter saw (with issues) jumped into my hands so I took it home. So Controlfreak here's another way to mount your saw.


----------



## controlfreak

I like it!


----------



## Mosquito

> Baseboard trim out via GP today.
> 
> [Pretty Picture]
> 
> Five rooms, two bathrooms, two closets.
> 
> Portable, safe, quiet, accurate.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Not to mention, if you're doing returns it's a hell of a lot easier lol 
Not as big of an issue with base usually, but for my window casings and shelf trim it was… did maybe 2 with the power miter saw, and sent the little pieces flying across the shop all chewed up before I said "forget it" and switched GP for that instead


----------



## Johnny7

> Baseboard trim out via GP today.
> 
> Five rooms, two bathrooms, two closets.
> 
> Portable, safe, quiet, accurate.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Smitty,

Apologies, with respect to your signature line, but …
One can only imagine how happy that box is, doing what it was "born" to do.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Amen, Johnny!

And I wonder… tradesmen that used these tools daily, what was the best technique? Mine is a sharp saw, and it sometimes 'catches' in the cut. Not always a smooth operation from start to finish.

I've tried imagining I'm cutting 'uphill' at times; keeping the heel of the saw lower seems to work better than toe-down cutting. And now, I'm watching the spine of the saw at the far post -not even watching the cut itself- and it works!


----------



## DLK

I think if the box is on a high bench then you would find cutting uphill easier, but on a low bence down hill is easier. Too much of an incline and your teeth may contact metal. Thus I think there is a "sweet spot method" that depends on not only the box height, but also on your height. I bet one of the old instruction manuals/books will tell us. I will have to look into what I have.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm a downhiller. Get the far side almost bottoming out then drop the front. Most times when my saw catches it means my grip is too tight. Relax a bit and back to smooth. All the flooring, siding and roofing on the railroad car has been cut on a Goodell Mfg 5" All Steel.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Went to a couple antique shops today about 300' from one to the other. In the first shop I went into, I saw the saw guide, then in the neighboring shop I saw the frame. I'm going to clean them up and make a new table. All the little parts and pieces are together now. I think I will have a really nice tool when all done.


----------



## HokieKen

Excellent Mike! Even got the length stop


----------



## BlasterStumps

Even has a compulsory white paint drip on the inside rear of a rear leg. There are a couple rusty things on it but I will give them a clean and see what happens. This box might just reside right at my workbench for the small cuts. I'm thinking it might be a little older than the SW version I have. Seems the casting was done a little nicer which I think can indicate age.


----------



## tshiker

The great thing about that box Blaster is you can use just about any saw with it!


----------



## controlfreak

It works much better with a solid base. I waxed the blade too.









I need to think about how I am going to attack this renovation. I am thinking to disassemble all of the pieces, clean and soak in evaporust. The other issue is I want to get it as close to original as possible but I don't think it has a metal label and the decal is long gone. Does anybody have an idea about the likely time period and GP model this is? Also when new what the coloring would have been? Can't get that from B&W photos. Seems like I can remember one that was done up in a green color but can't remember whose.

Missing John here.


----------



## BlasterStumps

CF, The elevators might be a clue to age. Don't know when they started with the hole in the top. Does it have bearings? Or, the screw in the hole in the top of the elevator? Don't think I see screws. not sure that brand had the screws, some brands did I believe.


----------



## controlfreak

Not sure where the bearings would be. Also not sure about the holes at the top of the elevators, I'll need to look to see if they have treads cut.


----------



## BlasterStumps

bearings in some of the later boxes are in the elevators for the saw spline to ride on. Might not be something you would find on that brand though. The screws were actually bushings to tighten up the opening for the saw spline I believe. By the way, pretty nice mitre box. I like it!


----------



## JethroBodean

> Even has a compulsory white paint drip on the inside rear of a rear leg. There are a couple rusty things on it but I will give them a clean and see what happens. This box might just reside right at my workbench for the small cuts. I m thinking it might be a little older than the SW version I have. Seems the casting was done a little nicer which I think can indicate age.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Blaster

Not sure, either which way, about a nicer casting indicating age. But I want to send you in the wayback machine to late Feb of 2020. Several of us were going on about the 150. In post "#4071 posted 02-29-2020 10:02 PM" I pointed out several clues (based on something I had read) that might indicate the general age of a 150.


----------



## Johnny7

> Even has a compulsory white paint drip on the inside rear of a rear leg. There are a couple rusty things on it but I will give them a clean and see what happens. This box might just reside right at my workbench for the small cuts. I m thinking it might be a little older than the SW version I have. Seems the casting was done a little nicer which I think can indicate age.
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> Blaster
> 
> Not sure, either which way, about a nicer casting indicating age. But I want to send you in the wayback machine to late Feb of 2020. Several of us were going on about the 150. In post "#4071 posted 02-29-2020 10:02 PM" I pointed out several clues (based on something I had read) that might indicate the general age of a 150.
> 
> - JethroBodean


And here it is:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/5273689


----------



## controlfreak

> CF, The elevators might be a clue to age. Don t know when they started with the hole in the top. Does it have bearings? Or, the screw in the hole in the top of the elevator? Don t think I see screws. not sure that brand had the screws, some brands did I believe.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Had a chance to look, no bearings and the hole in the top of the posts have no threads. Which makes me wonder more about their reason or function. Hmmmm


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for the info Johnny7. Going by that, it should be type 3. It has the orange letters on the arch Stanley No 150 and on back it has Made in USA. It has the angle degree numbers raised on the quadrant. Couldn't tell much about the board as it was bad shape. Definitely have to make a new table.
CF , maybe the hole was something to do with a machining center for turning the elevator post. Don't know.


----------



## HokieKen

> Had a chance to look, no bearings and the hole in the top of the posts have no threads. Which makes me wonder more about their reason or function. Hmmmm
> 
> - controlfreak


The holes were likely just for fixturing purposes during machining. Long parts like that need to be supported on both ends so there was probably a tailstock center used during turning and a fixture center used when the slots were milled.


----------



## controlfreak

That makes sense, all I can say is the pouring beer in them didn't do any good.


----------



## theoldfart

^ blasphemy heathen one, hang your head in shame. Oh, and wipe off the posts!


----------



## DLK

^ I assume he still drank the (now flavored) beer.


----------



## controlfreak

Biggest damn straw I ever had, did have a paste wax taste come to think of it.


----------



## bandit571

Ok….for some strange reason, this followed me home..









Hmmm…









Not sure who made it, or sold it….








Might need a new deck?
Pointer? Locking Lever?...
Happened to hop into the cart with these 3…









$19 and change for all 4 items…..


----------



## RWE

That is interesting Bandit. Post some more when you find out who made it. Need Jon back, he would be in a dither on that one.


----------



## BobLeistner

That miter box was made by Stanley, Bandit. I gave two of them away years ago. One still was in the original box.


----------



## Johnny7

Bob's got it - it's a Stanley 116-I have had several over the years as part of tool hauls and I too, ended up giving them away. Like the 150, it will accept back or panel saws.

The little tabs along the front edge let you secure it to the face of your bench top.

It replaced the 115 at some point (late '50s-early '60s, I think)

Some images:


----------



## bandit571

Looks like I have my work cut out for me, eh?

Took it to the Rehab shop…..All bolts have been removed, and cleaned up. Managed to uncover the Stanley Logo, and the angle scale. Thins were NASTY on the inside….All parts that can come apart, have been. Wood deck measures 0.957" thick…..might be easier to simply flip the board over?

Ran a backsaw through the holder a few times, with a coat of 3in1 oil on the saw….man all the rust that came out of there….

Those "clips" are likely long gone….as they had drilled a pair of countersunk screw holes…maybe to attach to a sawhorse? Spend tomorrow stripping back to bare metal, then a primer coat…..then some Rustoleum Black….?


----------



## bandit571

From this…









Rusty & Krusty have left the building…









And..have been primer coated….waiting on paint to dry. old deck is not worth the effort to recycle…not only did they drill counter-sunk holes for screws on the ends…now the 4/4 board has begun to split in that area.


----------



## BenDupre

That square is nice Bandit. Roy Underhill demonstrated how that was inlaid using a funky bow-powered drill and a template. I cannot remember the name of the tool. The episode was called "A Very Boring Program"


----------



## Mosquito

I assume you're talking about the "Passer Drill" Ben?


----------



## KentInOttawa

I'd recently watched that episode too, but couldn't remember the name of the tool. So I searched my history and found it here, starting @ 14:26. Then I came back here and kept reading, only to discover that Mos had the name already. Doh!


----------



## BenDupre

Yup. That one is not yours is it?


----------



## Mosquito

Oh man I wish lol The only reason I remember the name, is because I spent a LONG time looking for one, or ways that I could make one with my available tools/skills at the time. Never came up with anything, but I do have a CNC router now lol


----------



## BenDupre

Yes there are other ways to do inlays, but this one was pretty clever.. and fast. I have to say that one of the things in life I find most amazing is how much was achieved in carpentry and construction before power tools. I find it even more amazing than what we can achieve today with technology like CNC. I often ask myself "Is that really woodworking?" for the same reason I feel like a cheater when I use Kreg screws. Mostly it's because I will never own one.. that might change my opinion.


----------



## HokieKen

Well ain't that just slicker than eel snot. Never seen one before but that's pretty dang cool!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got the 150 back together, a new table made, and adjusted to cut square and plumb again. I didn't do any painting on it, just cleaned it up some. I am planning to keep this tool close to the workbench for cutting the smaller stuff. After cutting on it a few times, I am thinking my $32 was well spent. 
As you can see, I haven't run out of phillips head screws yet. : ). 
I might fix up another saw for it in the future but for now this little hard tooth saw works.


----------



## HokieKen

Exceptional Mike!


----------



## NickyMac

Beautiful job on that 150! 
I keep scouring my area for one. Choice luck on finding the parts in separate shops!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks guys. I had seen the frame up on a high shelf in this one shop probably all of four years ago. I talked to the shop owner at the time and explained that the saw guide was missing but they still did not want to lower the price down from the $68 it had on it. I was in there a couple more times since and saw it was still there. Then this last trip, I decided to ask about it again because I had just came from the shop down the street where I had seen the arch /saw guide assembly. After explaining again that it was missing the parts, the lady took my offer of $20 for it. I wasn't out to beat them down on price but with no saw guide assembly…, but worth asking about again. Glad I did.


----------



## bandit571

Lumber Run, today….but, I think this might be a bit too fancy for the deck of the No. 116..









AND, this was Ash. Picked up 20-1/2 Bft of 1×6 boards….for $20….









4footers (5) and 6 footers (4)....Some grain was fancier than others..









May check on the paint job after a while, and see IF it is ready for the Semi-Gloss Black….

May just fabricate a pair of metal clips for out in front….

The Square is a 5" model….numbers count either towards the handle, or away from it, depends on which side of the blade you look at…thinking a bit of Gun Blue Paste, to bring the markings out a bit better….


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..waiting on paint to dry..









and…









Stuff is labeled as Semi Gloss Black by Rustoleum…..hardware is cleaned up…









Should be ready to go….once the new deck is made…


----------



## bandit571

Test drive…Disston D-8 Panel saw…









Left the scales paint free…easier to read..









Old deck had a groove in back, so..









USE LOTS of wax, to install them screws….


















Although I planed the new deck smooth….stain showed up a bit..









Hmmm…The Backsaw I was going to use, needs sharpened. The little D-8 was quite sharp, though.

Test cut?









Should do the trick…..

One can place the saw guide all the way down on to the wood, acts as a hold down….

Cardio today..









Stanley #358 to cut out the deck board, from the 4' long plank….2 cuts…


----------



## JethroBodean

Can you tell be what I have here? Who was the manufacturer? How much do you think it is worth?

Or so goes most every FB post I'm seeing these days.










I'll tell you what I have here, an 'Old Tool'; at least that's what the tag in the store said. Obviously I have a set of "attachments" for a Goodell Pratt All-Steel mitre box.

I've never seen where GP ever gave a specific name to these pieces, and I've never seen a GP Parts list. The only reference to them that I see in the 1926 catalog is the following:

*Angles more acute than 45 degrees are obtained by an extra angle attachment fastened to the left side of the box. This attachment can also be used as a molding holder. A length gauge is fastened to the right side of the box. This can be quickly set into position for cutting duplicate pieces of any length up to 20 inches. Both of these attachments can be removed or replaced by the means of four screws.*

I was stunned when I ran across these in one of my favorite haunts tonight. It is not uncommon to find GP mitre boxes without these 'attachments'. But this is the first time I've ever found the 'attachments' without the box. At $12, I think I did ok! ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, I believe you have made a killing! Incredible get.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Awesome find indeed!


----------



## Mosquito

definitely a sweet score


----------



## controlfreak

Yeah, finding those alone without the saw is really odd. Nice find there.


----------



## HokieKen

Excellent find Jeff! I don't recall ever seeing just those pieces on Ebay. And if I did, I guarantee they wouldn't be $15…


----------



## BlasterStumps

this ought to make you folks with the 116's feel good: Here


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> this ought to make you folks with the 116 s feel good: Here
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Bandit has an etsy store?


----------



## HokieKen

Well… shipping is free.


----------



## Notw

Does anyone know where i could source small parts for a Stanley no 150 miter box. I got a good deal on a 150 but it is missing the front thumb screw on the angle adjuster and a screw on the back, when i put it back together i'll be able to snap a pic of the hole but wanted to see if there was a place that had hardware while i was restoring it


----------



## HokieKen

Which screw on the back are you missing Notw? I have one of those boxes and can make you a copy of the thumb screw and probably whatever other screw you're missing assuming I'm not missing it too…


----------



## controlfreak

A screw missing on a miter box, I am shocked.


----------



## Notw

So far it is just the front screw and i am assuming a screw goes into the bottom of the arm on the back (although i'm not 100% sure what this screw on the back does)

Picture of the missing front screw









Picture of the missing back screw


----------



## HokieKen

The screw on the back is for a wooden wheel that acts as kind of a depth stop to make sure that the saw doesn't hit metal.


















I have one of those on my list to make for myself. I can fix you up with both of those screws if you want. Just shoot me a PM.


----------



## controlfreak

"I am sorry but you will need to post a picture on the missing screw in order to get a duplicate made". This pretty much sums up how my week went.


----------



## HokieKen

It's easy CF. I posted two pics of the screw I'm missing ;-)

So I'll be making a couple of those screws for the wood wheel and the thumbscrew that locks the angle on Stanley 150 boxes. If anybody besides Notw needs either one, hollar.


----------



## HokieKen

That better not have been any of you sunsabeaches that stole my 15-1/2 box on Ebay ;-) I thought I might get a bargain with a busted guide but it still got bid up over my limit.

One of these days!


----------



## bandit571

I got too many Mitre Boxes as it is…Just bought and rehabbed that Stanley 116….


----------



## theoldfart

Don't feel bad Kenny, my $40 bid didn't end either


----------



## HokieKen

I went to $125 Kev. I figured at that I could justify a repaired box as a user. But just couldn't bring myself to go higher. I also let a Stanley 289 sell for $150 this morning. I'm probably gonna lament both before all is said and done…


----------



## Mosquito

Don't suppose anyone has one of these kicking around… And care to confirm its use on my box. It's the screw the plunger on the side of the swinging section attaches to. I assume it's to tighten down the swinging section so it doesn't move if you're not in a detent.










It didn't do anything on my box, so I disassembled it, and when I did it just fell out. I tried chasing it, but those threads are toast lol


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got another mitre box (150 clone) today but it is missing the wooden wheel and screw. : (



















I will also need to make a new table for it like I did the other one.

I think it might be in a little better condition than the Stanley I just cleaned up. This one is most likely a Wards. It mostly just needs a good clean.

Edit: I found a screw so I will turn a new wheel. I have to dig the shopsmith out anyway to turn a bushing for a plow coulter.

I smashed my left thumb with a 3# engineers sledge trying to drive the bushing out of the coulter only to finally shatter the old bushing all to pieces. A wood replacement should do the trick. I'm just using the coulter to make a garden bedder/hiller attachment for my garden tractor. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Had a failed attempt at making the wheel today. Turned it fine but messed up the drilling part. Gads!

Anyway, I decided to try the saw guide portion on my Stanley 150 so I swapped them out. I was pleasantly surprised at what I found out in doing that. Using the same saw I used in the 150 in the saw guide from the Wards was so much smoother. Why would that be? I tried all the adjustments and it just was much nicer. Maybe the 150 arch is made just a fraction different? I don't know.


----------



## JethroBodean

Blaster - Check to verify that the plates are smooth and clean where they come in contact with the saw. And make sure you you have the flat spring that sits behind the left saw guide plate.


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content



















The only other thing I can think of is too much pressure squeezing the plates together.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I cleaned the plates and lubed them with paste wax and also installed the flat spring.


----------



## HokieKen

> Had a failed attempt at making the wheel today. Turned it fine but messed up the drilling part. Gads!
> 
> Anyway, I decided to try the saw guide portion on my Stanley 150 so I swapped them out. I was pleasantly surprised at what I found out in doing that. Using the same saw I used in the 150 in the saw guide from the Wards was so much smoother. Why would that be? I tried all the adjustments and it just was much nicer. Maybe the 150 arch is made just a fraction different? I don t know.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


The MW version was made by Stanley Mike and the castings are the same from everything I have seen. There were just different inserts to put in the pattern for different branding. If you look, you'll see that the "Made in USA" is even in Stanley's notched rectangle outline 

I imagine Jethro's onto something with the guides. Maybe just some minor difference in the tension from the little leaf spring is enough to affect the holding of the saw? I know on my 150 box (which is also a MW version) there's a fine line between having enough tension to hold the saw without slop and over-tightening and making it harder to slide the saw.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'll get back into the 150 saw guides one day soon. Since there is a very small difference, I'm expecting something simple. I'll do a little experimenting. I have a few of the 150 boxes and this one is the only one that is that tight in the saw guide. Thanks guys.


----------



## Notw

Getting near done on the restoration of my Stanley No 150 and have a question about painting the letters. I used an engine enamel to paint the miter box and need to repaint the red letter on the top of the arm. Is it okay to use an oil based paint pen over the enamel paint? I was thinking about the Sharpie below.

https://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Oil-Based-Marker-Medium-SAN35550/dp/B0026HL29S

Sorry Ken that's as long as I could make the link


----------



## Notw

Upon reassembling the Stanley No. 150 last night I noticed i have a spring that i'm not 100% sure where it goes. Does anyone have an idea where it should be?


----------



## HokieKen

I assume you're referring to the small coil spring? If so it goes in the hole opposite the locking thumbscrew to snap the guide in at detents.


----------



## Notw

Son of a biscuit that makes too much sense, thank you


----------



## Notw

Other than painting the Stanley No. 150 letters red (need to get a paint pen) and the couple of parts Ken was nice enough to offer to make my miter box is restored. All it needs now is a saw 

Before, it wasn't in terrible shape









After


----------



## BlasterStumps

Very nice job on that 150 Notw. Better than new I would say .


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got done cleaning up the 150 I found just the other day. It is the one in lower left of picture. I cleaned it with some WD-40 and removed some of the rust off the upright fence. I really like it and will probably keep it for my go to. 
My two boys might want to pick one for their use.

While I got all four together, I thought I would share a family photo of them.


----------



## controlfreak

Very nice restore on that 150 notw


----------



## HokieKen

Lotta 150 love in here. I like it


----------



## theoldfart

Lotta 150's of late.
Lost out on an EBay bid for a Hughes double cut mitre box today. Got out sniped!


----------



## theoldfart

It's nice when you can take the mitre box on the job with you!










Just finishing up on three raised planter boxes.


----------



## HokieKen

Is that a Langdon Star Kev? I've been watching for one of those for several months in my price range. To no avail…


----------



## theoldfart

Star 41, can do compound angles. I bought it before the prices got insane.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I know that tool!


----------



## theoldfart

Yes you do young man!


----------



## DLK

> It's nice when you can take the mitre box on the job with you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just finishing up on three raised planter boxes.
> 
> - theoldfart


Good point. I will do that. It will save me many trips. Thanks.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Kev. The ability to do compound angles is exactly what I find attractive about the Star 41. Not attractive enough to pry $150+ out of my wallet though ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

BTW, for the aficionados out there the saw is s Disston #9 panel saw.


----------



## Johnny7

> BTW, for the aficionados out there the saw is s Disston #9 panel saw.
> 
> - theoldfart


Awesome saw, TOF!

I am a big #9 fan - with its Extra London Spring Steel and tri-lobal hand opening, it's really the predecessor to the vaunted #12


----------



## theoldfart

This one has a double etch, one from Disston and one from a hardware dealer on Bowery Street in Brooklyn.
Thanks for turning the pic.


----------



## HokieKen

Ran across this on Ebay the other day. Definitely not something I'll be buying but it is one of the very few examples of a compound miter box I've seen.


----------



## theoldfart

I have been LUSTING for that mitre box since it was posted. At some point in time I'll probably go after an AD Hughes Double Cut mitre box.


----------



## paulm12

I am working on an GP/MF 1074A box, wanting to clean up and re-paint (maybe). I want to remove the rotating assembly, and I am stuck on how to get the piece off that has the red cutting angle pointer attached to it (see pic). Is it just pressed on to the casting below? I thought at first there were small pins, but I don't think so. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## DanKrager

Haven't seen one like this before…. y'all don't kill each other fighting over this rare beast...

DanK


----------



## KentInOttawa

I'm looking for some help, here.

I want to lock my Stanley 358 at an angle that has no detent (8 degrees, more or less. I'm gauging from a sliding bevel). My box doesn't seem to lock at the intermediate angles. Is there an adjustment that will allow it to lock at any angle or a workaround that I can try?


----------



## Johnny7

> I m looking for some help, here.
> Is there … a workaround that I can try?
> 
> - Kent


I think your best bet is to choose the closest locking angle, then shim between the stock and the fence to achieve the desired angle.


----------



## controlfreak

> Haven t seen one like this before…. y all don t kill each other fighting over this rare beast...
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Talk about locking in an angle. That thing looks interesting


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I'm looking for some help, here.
> Is there … a workaround that I can try?
> 
> - Kent
> 
> I think your best bet is to choose the closest locking angle, then shim between the stock and the fence to achieve the desired angle.
> 
> - Johnny7


Thanks. This is a shallow angle (about 1:8). I couldn't wrap my head around making shims that would support the work solidly enough for my disabilities, so I scrapped the mitre box and went somewhat more primitive.



















The results were acceptable.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yesterday I picked up a Disston No 4, 16" backsaw with what appears to be a full plate. I was able to clean the plate all but about a 1/4" down at the toothline. I stayed away from that. What I am wondering is, what is the best method to clean the rust buildup off there next to the toothline. The saw is cutting excellent and I don't want to mess up the teeth or the set of the teeth.

I won't know until I get it all back together if it will work in a 150 box but that is what I am hoping.


----------



## Johnny7

> Yesterday I picked up a Disston No 4, 16" backsaw with what appears to be a full plate. I was able to clean the plate all but about a 1/4" down at the toothline. I stayed away from that. What I am wondering is, what is the best method to clean the rust buildup off there next to the toothline. The saw is cutting excellent and I don t want to mess up the teeth or the set of the teeth.
> 
> I won t know until I get it all back together if it will work in a 150 box but that is what I am hoping.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


a brass bristle brush-brush perpendicular to toothline (from spine to tooth)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for the response Johnny7. I will give it a try. I have a brass brush.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Started on a handle today for the 16" Disston No 4 that I am hoping will work in one of the 150 mitre boxes. The saw was covered in a think crust of rust. I didn't do too whippy of a job cleaning the plate and spine but at least most of the rust came off.

This saw has a big spine but I don't think that will be a problem using it in a 150 box.

I cut the kerf for the plate in the new handle. Next time I get to work on it, I will cut the slot to allow for the spine, then drill for the sawnuts. Once I get it so it will mount on the plate, I will finish shaping it. Not so sure I like the handle but will have to wait until it is a little further along so I can test cut with it. Then I can decide if I want to use it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Finished up the handle for the No 4. The wood was a poor choice for a saw handle but it is what I had.

I tried cutting with the saw and can tell it needs just a smidgen of sharpening. May have to find my magnifying lamp to be able to see the teeth.

Anyway, now I have a saw for each of the 150 style boxes. Here it is with a couple others I messed around with.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nicely done Mike! Do you feel like the 16" saw is enough for that box?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kenny, yes, it works okay. I even use a little 14" in one. This last saw that I fixed up is so heavy that if I had the teeth touched up, I think it will be the one I keep in the box that I use. Actually it cuts well enough I suppose but, I bet it would surprise me if I gave it just a little touch up. The handle is made from a template on Blackburn Tools. Just a little different than some of the other ones I made.


----------



## Notw

I've still been casually looking for a Disston No. 4 in a 18" or 20" but so far they are either in horrible condition or the ones on eBay seem to all be in the United Kingdom. Hopefully one will show up sometime and my 150 can finally have a saw.


----------



## BlasterStumps

My bigger mitre box saws start at about 23" toothline and go up in length from there. I have to admit, I have not tried a longer saw in the 150 style boxes. Might just for grins to see how they run in there. Found out tonight that the 16" I just put a handle on is 12ppi. Sharpening teeth that fine will really put a strain on these poor eyes.


----------



## DLK

I picked up this boxless miter box for $3 and cleaned it up so that now its functional. There are no maker markings.

Does anybody know anything about it? 
...... What's it called? Who made it? When was it made? , What's it worth? And so forth.

I think you just screw it to the right end of your bench to use it? Is that correct?

Didn't we see a photo Kevin sent using it or something similar to it?. Can we see it again!


----------



## HokieKen

That looks like some EC Stearns guides I've seen Don. They're usually attached to a wood box like this one.









The one Kev showed recently was a Langdon Star that can do compound angles.


----------



## HokieKen

Here's the one Kev showed:



> It's nice when you can take the mitre box on the job with you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just finishing up on three raised planter boxes.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## DLK

Yes, Kenny I think you are correct, I'll make a box for it some day. But it must be a latter EC Stearns

The 1924 EC Stearns Catalogue shows this one:










which is the one that I have. The guide I showed looks different to me. It must be a later model or made by a different maker.


----------



## DLK

Kenny I think the hardwareI posted and you showed attached to the box is a Union Hardware Perfection Miter Box Model #456 Pat Dec 1902. Not EC Stearns. Search on perfection miter box. I don't know how to tell which model 454,455 or 456 it is.


----------



## Johnny7

> Kenny I think the hardwareI posted and you showed attached to the box is a Union Hardware Perfection Miter Box Model #456 Pat Dec 1902. Not EC Stearns. Search on perfection miter box. I don t know how to tell which model 454,455 or 456 it is.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I believe that is an EC Stearns. No. 2, Perfection Pattern box

Have a look at the last image in your own post back HERE


----------



## DLK

*Johnny7* Just to be clear.

- The one one with a square-ish frame is an EC Stearns. No. 2, Perfection Pattern box, but
- the one one with a round-ish frame is Union Hardware Perfection Miter Box Model #454, 455 or 456 Pat Dec 1902.

I have both now. I recently bought the Union hardware one and was asking about it. Kenny convinced that it was missing the box and then I figured out what I had.


----------



## HokieKen

> Kenny I think the hardwareI posted and you showed attached to the box is a Union Hardware Perfection Miter Box Model #456 Pat Dec 1902. Not EC Stearns. Search on perfection miter box. I don t know how to tell which model 454,455 or 456 it is.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I know nothing about those guides Don but based on a quick image search, that rings true for me. I wonder if they were all made by one manufacturer? Also, I have no idea about the different models but I wonder if it's as simple as the 454 takeas a 4" saw, 455 takes 5" and 456 takes a 6"?. Or maybe the guides were the same and the differences were in the size of the box?


----------



## HokieKen

Here's the ebay listing for the photo I posted earlier Don. The box still has the sticker on the back and it is Stearns.

That should muddy the waters a bit more for ya ;-)


----------



## Johnny7

> *Johnny7* Just to be clear.
> 
> - The one one with a square-ish frame is an EC Stearns. No. 2, Perfection Pattern box, but
> - the one one with a round-ish frame is Union Hardware Perfection Miter Box Model #454, 455 or 456 Pat Dec 1902.
> 
> I have both now. I recently bought the Union hardware one and was asking about it. Kenny convinced that it was missing the box and then I figured out what I had.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I'm going to give this another try

IF you go to the link I provided, in the last page you posted there, the last image is of an EC Stearns. No. 2, Perfection Pattern box. This has a "rounded frame" and matches up nicely with the image you posted about today.


----------



## DLK

It certainly does even has a picture of it on the sticker. I don't think the model numbers can refer to the saw size because it is designed to work with any saw, but perhaps it was sold with with a saw. Incidentally I apparently got it for the 1901 list price of $3. LOL. We need a miter box expert to chime in here. Maybe there is a Stearn-Union connection.


----------



## DLK

> *Johnny7* Just to be clear.
> 
> - The one one with a square-ish frame is an EC Stearns. No. 2, Perfection Pattern box, but
> - the one one with a round-ish frame is Union Hardware Perfection Miter Box Model #454, 455 or 456 Pat Dec 1902.
> 
> I have both now. I recently bought the Union hardware one and was asking about it. Kenny convinced that it was missing the box and then I figured out what I had.
> 
> - Combo Prof
> 
> I m going to give this another try
> 
> IF you go to the link I provided, in the last page you posted there, the last image is of an EC Stearns. No. 2, Perfection Pattern box. This has a "rounded frame" and matches up nicely with the image you posted about today.
> 
> - Johnny7


Thats funny. You posted a link back to a post *I made. * (How did you find it.) Sorry I missed that. Now I am really confused. Because I have found definite references to Union Hardware. I think Union hardware maybe different than the Union Tool co. Do you suppose Union sold the patent to EC Stearns?


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know when the Stearns modes were made Don but if they were later on in the 20s, it may have been after the Union patent ran out and they just copied them. Or maybe they licensed it. Or maybe they bought Union or visa versa. Or none of the above…


----------



## bandit571

In use, tonight..









Stanley No. 346….









Making corner glue blocks….2 out of 4 done…









One in each corner, with glue and screws…I also use them to attach a top to a table….


----------



## Johnny7

> Thats funny. You posted a link back to a post *I made. * (How did you find it.) Sorry I missed that. Now I am really confused. Because I have found definite references to Union Hardware. I think Union hardware maybe different than the Union Tool co. Do you suppose Union sold the patent to EC Stearns?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Yes, it's possible they sold the patent, or more likely licensed its use.

There are many examples of old tools which are identical, but marketed under different names.
Exactly where they started, and who-made-what-for-whom is, in many cases, forever lost in the mists of time.

Those "Defiance" hand planes with the maroon-stained handles and vestigial "frogs" are a great example. I have dozens of examples with non-Stanley names, no name at all, etc.


----------



## HokieKen

To make it a little more interesting, here's another one of those boxes badged as Dunlap.


----------



## HokieKen

And a Montgomery Ward.


----------



## HokieKen

And… Millers Falls. I'll refrain from posting any more


----------



## Johnny7

> And… Millers Falls. I ll refrain from posting any more
> 
> - HokieKen


I, for one, admire your restraint.


----------



## bandit571

Whose mitre box…









Hmmm..









And…


----------



## HokieKen

I also found a Craftsman labeled one Johnny. But I figured we already have suffiecient evidence that somebody was making those for a lot of different companies ;-) I am curious as to who was making them though. I would lean towards Union since Don found evidence of them patenting it.


----------



## DLK

OMG. Well O.K. then. I was thinking I would duplicate the box. Can someone guess what the wood was? The catalog entry says "The board is made of laminated hardwoods of contrasting colors, finished in lacquer."


----------



## KentInOttawa

> OMG. Well O.K. then. I was thinking I would duplicate the box. Can someone guess what the wood was? The catalog entry says "The board is made of laminated hardwoods of contrasting colors, finished in lacquer."
> 
> - Combo Prof


It sounds like the original wood used for skateboards. ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

My best guess would be Maple and Mohogany Don. Maybe Walnut but the grain doesn't look right. Or maybe they stained Oak or something?


----------



## Johnny7

> But I figured we already have sufficient evidence that somebody was making those for a lot of different companies ;-) I am curious as to who was making them though. I would lean towards Union since Don found evidence of them patenting it.
> 
> - HokieKen


That sounds entirely plausible


----------



## DLK

> My best guess would be Maple and Mohogany Don. Maybe Walnut but the grain doesn't look right. Or maybe they stained Oak or something?
> 
> - HokieKen


My guess was also Maple and Mahogany (or cherry) .

My table saw (craftsman 113) motor finally died. I have now ordered a sawstop but it won't ship until July. So it looks like I will have to use hand tools. 

I wonder if I have long enough pieces of mahogany.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## HokieKen

What? We are discussing a tool and Smitty happens to have one to show us? Imagine that! ;-))

Don, those boxes are pretty common and cheap on Ebay. If you wanted an original, I think you could get one around $25 shipped.

If you just want to build one because it seems like a fun project, by all means go at it . I have plenty of Mohogany if you need some. It would give me a chance to retun your frog too ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Oh, and congrats on the new Sawstop!


----------



## DLK

No. *Kenny,* I don't really want one. LOL. I may be driving by your house next month. ( I know you really want to get rid of the frog.) I will let you know by messenger. I just thought I would build the box for kicks. But maybe it is stupid to do so. Last thing I need is another "take up too much room miter box".

But I saw the part for $3 and thought it was a good deal. So here we are running down another rabbet hole.

I see that they sold for $4 in the 1947 Millers Falls catalog and $1.95 in the 1916 Montgomery wards catalog. 
Must have been really popular. Well $4 in 1947 is worth $47.51 today, so maybe I did get a good deal. LOL.

You can buy just the part on ebay for around $18. I'll probably just sell it at a tool swap.

The part is advertised to be detachable to be carried in the tool box. So I wonder if you detach the part and carry it to the job site how you would use it. Maybe you take the boards with you. Maybe separated and screwed together when you get to the job site. Would you really take the time to build a box from scratch. The box was but together with dowels and so didn't come apart. I guess you could take off the part and put it an the box in the tool box to carry and it would take up less space. And then become separated and 50 years later some fool would by just the part and spend hours discussing it on some forum.

Incredible that the same item was sold by it seems just about every 1920-1950 tool dealer.



















*Smitty* thanks for the measurements I have saved them. Now I think I will make the box, maybe on Sunday if I have the Mahogany.


----------



## DLK

> Oh, and congrats on the new Sawstop!
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks. It is nice to be retired and have extra monies for this.


----------



## DLK

> I have plenty of Mohogany if you need some.
> 
> - HokieKen


Apparently I have enough Mahogany. Now to find the maple. I know it's in the pile some where!.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know if anyone needs one but a nice Simonds made saw popped up on Ebay. The listing doesn't have the saw height listed but it's either for the 15-1/2 or 16-1/2 box.


----------



## Notw

Since this is Miter boxes of your dreams thought I would post the miter box I made about 5 years ago for pull saws with my Stanley 150. A little push versus pull or east meets west


----------



## CL810

That's clever Jason. Does it have indexes?


----------



## Ocelot

Not particularly dreamy, but I picked up a Nobex 180 for $40 yesterday. Ordered a new blade for it from Lee Valley. They guy was making picture frames with it, but switched to a power saw because it was taking him so long to make the 16 cuts (he said) that are on his frames. I think if he had bought a new blade, he would have been good to go. He didn't buy the saw new, so it's at least 3rd hand.

Not a classic, but usable. OK. However, mine has the same problem that others have complained of - the plastic guides are worn, which compromises precision. I was thinking of making some wooden guides out of Jatoba maybe with a lignum vitae insert. Any ideas?

Of course an old classic box would be cooler but other than eBay that kind of thing is not often found around here.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

That's slick Jason! Here's the project post for anyone else that likes it as much as I do:


Also, my PLAN is to get our parts for the 150 boxes turned this weekend


----------



## Notw

> That s clever Jason. Does it have indexes?
> 
> - CL810


Yes the knob on the right can be dropped into drilled indexing holes for 90 and 45. the knob on the left can be tightened at any angle. Based on these plans from Woodsmith


----------



## Notw

> Also, my PLAN is to get our parts for the 150 boxes turned this weekend
> 
> - HokieKen


Awesome, thank you!


----------



## HokieKen

Paul, I'm not familiar with the Nobex boxes but looking at the ones on Lee Valley, I wonder if you could just drill and tap the sides of the guides and put some small nylon screws in there that you could use to take up any slop as the plastic wears?


----------



## Ocelot

Sounds like a simple easy thing to try. I'll look into it!


----------



## HokieKen

I've never seen it done on miter boxes specifically Paul but if you search YouTube, you'll find some videos of guys doing it on old drill presses to take slop out of worn bearing housings. Same concept, you'll just need smaller screws. The biggest challenge may be whether or not the plastic guides will take the thread well enough.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Not a classic, but usable. OK. However, mine has the same problem that others have complained of - the plastic guides are worn, which compromises precision. I was thinking of making some wooden guides out of Jatoba maybe with a lignum vitae insert. Any ideas?
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


Another possibility would be to fabricate the replacement guides out of something appropriate in your offcuts box. I know that in my offcut box there are some very hard and dense pieces of tight red oak knots that would be suitable.


----------



## DanKrager

I wood hesitate to make the replacement guides out of would because of the chemical reaction of wood (with high tannic acid content) against metal. Combined with long stationary exposure and the inevitable humidity moisture there might be ideal conditions for corrosion to set it.

DanK


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I wood hesitate to make the replacement guides out of would because of the chemical reaction of wood (with high tannic acid content) against metal. Combined with long stationary exposure and the inevitable humidity moisture there might be ideal conditions for corrosion to set it.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I figured that if it worked for a bandsaw, it should work for a mitre box. In a perfect but entirely fictitious world, the metal wouldn't rest against the wood permanently and would only ever touch it occasionally so those conditions wouldn't be an issue. Also, if it could be manufactured out of wood, it could also be manufactured out of HDPE or something similar. (Materials science is nowhere near my area of expertise).


----------



## Johnny7

> However, mine has the same problem that others have complained of - the plastic guides are worn, which compromises precision. I was thinking of making some wooden guides out of Jatoba maybe with a lignum vitae insert. Any ideas?
> 
> -Paul
> 
> - Ocelot


You may want to check into UHMW plastic (ultra high molecular weight) - super slick, machines with woodworking tools, and relatively inexpensive.


----------



## Ocelot

I was looking at some HDPE tape. Or making something from Delrin.

Im sure if I used lignum vitae it would be ok. I've been itching to buy some so this could be my justification.


----------



## drsurfrat

Materials science is my degree, and HDPE (and UHDPE and LDPE) is notorious for poor abrasion and hardness. Delrin and Nylon are good options, McMaster and Grainger have standard stock. Ultem or Paralyene if you want to make people's eyebrows raise and say "Oooooh". There are also filled (fiberglass) nylon, and some phenolics that re used for high-wear conditions.


----------



## Ocelot

Thanks drsurfrat,

Maybe lignum vitae isn't best for dry applications, but it has been used for some plane soles and certainly wet bearings.
https://lignumvitaesolutions.com/
But I'm over thinking this. I need to look at the thing!


----------



## Ocelot

Here's some photos of the Nobex 180 guides.
Each guide moves up and down on a pair of vertical rods. The left rod of each pair is 12mm. The right rod is a bit smaller and more loosely fitting through the holes in the guide.

The holes in the left of the guide are about 12.25mm, which is about 10 thousandths of an inch larger than the vertical rod.
So there is a little slop there.

The blade is about 35 thousandths of an inch thick.

The blade slot in near guide is about 55 thousandths, and in the far guide about 45, just measured with a caliper. Feeler gauges might show a tighter number. I'll check again. In any case, there is at least another 10 thousandths slop in the slot.


----------



## Ocelot

Here's a whole guide.


----------



## Johnny7

The UHMW plastic I referenced earlier is available in tape format.

If you can ascertain the thickness spec of a given tape, you could easily wrap one or both sides of the slot to arrive at the desired tolerance.


----------



## Ocelot

Certainly easy to try.


----------



## bandit571

Reminds me of the Jorgenson box I have…..different system to hold the saw, though..


----------



## theoldfart

I am going to be getting a number of mitre boxes in the near future, it'll depend on how many I can fit in my car. I'll also be getting a fair amount of parts. This horde is the remainder of Jon Halls collection. It has been a tortuous path getting to this point and I don't want to get into it now, maybe some day. If folks are trying to get into using a mitre box let me know. I'm not Wall Mart nor Amazon. So be patient with me. I'm trying to fulfill Jon's wishes and a promise I made to him.

Edit: Please, don't request something with the intent to resell.


----------



## RWE

> I am going to be getting a number of mitre boxes in the near future, it'll depend on how many I can fit in my car. I'll also be getting a fair amount of parts. This horde is the remainder of Jon Halls collection. It has been a tortuous path getting to this point and I don't want to get into it now, maybe some day. If folks are trying to get into using a mitre box let me know. I'm not Wall Mart nor Amazon. So be patient with me. I'm trying to fulfill Jon's wishes and a promise I made to him.
> 
> Edit: Please, don't request something with the intent to resell.
> 
> - theoldfart


Glad you are taking on that role. Several years back, I needed some special screws for the 358 I bought from Jon. He graciously sent them right away.

My woodworking friends joke about "having copious amounts of free time" (caoft). When I have coaft next I plan to tune the 358 a bit to get to a perfect 90. Never know when you might need to replace a broken part.


----------



## HokieKen

Depth stops for a Langdon 74 Kev. And any/all length stop components for a 150 box.

No rush, just wanted to get requests in at the front of the line 

Thanks for stepping in to handle all that for Jon. And I definitely won't be reselling and am happy to pay whatever. They're just parts I haven't been able to source via Ebay.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You're a good man, Kevin. And Jon's heart was certainly in the right place. RIP.


----------



## theoldfart

I will get some mileage in on this. Probably twelve hours or so. Doing it in one day I hope.


----------



## Ocelot

I may be shopping for a box if my Nobex doesn't work out well, although another LJ has already reached out to me about selling me a Stanley 50 1/2. I hope you can find good homes for them in any case.

Nobex manual supposedly was delivered today and blade is coming tomorrow.


----------



## drsurfrat

I didn't know Jon Hall, but I am interested. My freehand miters are horrible, and I recently got a 20" Disston backsaw.

Is there a charity for donations in his name?


----------



## Airframer

Put me down for a #2 tree for a stanley 2xx style box. I'm sorry to hear this news. So much has happened since I've been gone.


----------



## theoldfart

Ocelot and Mike, I should be able to help you out. I'm not aware of any charity in Jon's name. Our LJ'S community operates in a pay-it-forward basis, at least I am. When the opportunity arises, help someone else out. Vintage tools are becoming obscenely expensive so I'm sure they would be very appreciative.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I'll try. Not sure how many items like that are left. The high end dealers cherry-picked quite a lot.


----------



## Airframer

No stress really. I have one but the bottom screw post has broken while trying to get the broken off seized screw out.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Put me down for a #2 tree for a stanley 2xx style box. I m sorry to hear this news. So much has happened since I ve been gone.
> 
> - Airframer





> Eric, I'll try. Not sure how many items like that are left. The high end dealers cherry-picked quite a lot.
> 
> - theoldfart


Kevin - you can put me down for a #3-4 tree and the associated rods for a Stanley 358 if you find them; my box is almost complete now.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Kent. I will try.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, just a quick update on the box, The fellow apparently got injured and is laid up. His wife was going to take the box to UPS one day soon. I can wait a little longer, no problemo.


----------



## HokieKen

No worries Mike. I'll get you squared away eventually but I'm kinda chasing my tail on machining jobs at the moment. Seems like every time I think I have a weekend to catch up a bit and get some jobs out I end up even further in the hole. I was planning to get a job for Mos' and one for Notw done the past two weekends. Then my Grandfather died last weekend and family was all in town this weekend. So I didn't get either one AND my Mom added a display box for his funeral flag to the list.

So don't be in a hurry for the missing parts or you may be disappointed ;-). But I do keep a list of jobs in queu and if I do commit to a deadline, I'll hit it. I'm just not comitting to any right now…


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, what are you looking for?


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, what are you looking for?


----------



## HokieKen

Flat bottom guides would make Mike's rockin' world go round Kev ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

At least I think he said flat bottom and not v-shaped…


----------



## BlasterStumps

No, not flat bottom, they are V-shaped.

tof, I have the moulding stop, just need the length stop V-block and related hardware.

Kenny, no problem. I might print something for the time being.

I'm not expecting the box for a few days yet given the circumstance the seller told me about. Not sure what his injury is but it is such that he couldn't take the box to the shipper. Didn't sound too good. : (


----------



## theoldfart

I'll see what I can do, there should be a few All Steels there.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks tof.


----------



## CL810

Kev, ole buddy, ole friend, if you come across the Stanley release trip thing that attaches to the end of the saw you can have my first born (this offer of exchange does not include the grand kids.) ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, while the offer of your first born is tempting I have "one" of my own and that is sufficient! I'll look for one for you, if it's there it's yours.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Kev!


----------



## BlasterStumps

CL810, You could make one of these to get you by for a time:


----------



## CL810

Clever!!!


----------



## JethroBodean

> CL810, You could make one of these to get you by for a time:
> 
> - BlasterStumps


But you've got it at the wrong end of the saw. Otherwise, nice idea!


----------



## BlasterStumps

"But you've got it at the wrong end of the saw,"

Oh, dang, ya noticed. : )

I moved it to the other end. Here ya go:


----------



## HokieKen

Those Stanley trip things are always missing and always desired. Somebody that has one/some should look into casting a bunch of them. I could machine some to look similar to the originals but they could be easily cast and casting precision would be sufficient.

*NOTE:* I am not suggesting that anyone do this and try to pass them off as original. Only that I think there would be a market for functional ones even if they weren't original.


----------



## Airframer

> Those Stanley trip things are always missing and always desired. Somebody that has one/some should look into casting a bunch of them. I could machine some to look similar to the originals but they could be easily cast and casting precision would be sufficient.
> 
> *NOTE:* I am not suggesting that anyone do this and try to pass them off as original. Only that I think there would be a market for functional ones even if they weren t original.
> 
> - HokieKen


I actually have 3 of them and have toyed with the idea of trying some casting. I just can't justify the cost of a furnace to melt the steel down at this time. I do want to try it though. Making some casts of the trips and the 2 and 3-4 trees would probably pay for themselves honestly hmmmm…. Now I'm thinking. Would people pay for aluminum cast reproduction ones? Would be easier to make I would think?


----------



## HokieKen

I would certainly think you could sell all of those things on Ebay Eric. I dunno how big the market is but I know there are sellers on there making repro parts for vintage planes that seem to do pretty well. And I know those trip pieces don't last when they get listed, even at pretty hefty price tags.


----------



## controlfreak

What exactly does that do? Hold the saw up and drops it when you bump the lever shown?


----------



## Ocelot

I"m missing one on my Nobex also. Of course, it is only bent steel.

I would think those that you show could be 3D printed.


----------



## CL810

Found this one on ebay. Eric, at the rate prices on them are going, you may have your son's future secured with the three clamps you have!

Anyone know what the seller means by Founders Grade??


----------



## Ocelot

Founders Grade means Martin J. Donaldson (I think is his name) thinks this one is really spiffy!


----------



## HokieKen

"Founder's Grade" is kinda like "extremely rare" on Ebay. It doesn't really mean jack crap. Like Paul said, MJDtools has used it for some time but based on Andy's link, it seems other sellers have adopted the practice too…


----------



## theoldfart

Marketing hocus pocus, in other words B.S.!


----------



## Airframer

> Found this one on ebay. Eric, at the rate prices on them are going, you may have your son s future secured with the three clamps you have!
> 
> Anyone know what the seller means by Founders Grade??
> 
> - CL810


Great Scott! I am sitting on a gold mine! Lol. I scrolled down to view the related listings and even the upright assemblies are being sold for nearly 200 a set. No clue if they actually sell but I have around 6 sets of those knocking about!


----------



## drsurfrat

> Anyone know what the seller means by Founders Grade??
> - CL810


It means it's from MJD tool works, and is about 10 times the price anyone (who isn't desperate) is willing pay.


----------



## Ocelot

Hey, it's a business. Pricing is part of what has to be done.

I've bought one thing from MJD, and it was a fair enough deal for me. It was a Stanley 80M cabinet scraper without the blade. I had a spare Veritas blade already, and the 80M really was in fine and clean condition.

-Paul


----------



## HokieKen

Original from my 150 box on left and repro I made for Notw on the right.









Let me get a roller screw made and I'll send em your way later this week notw.


----------



## bandit571

Been wondering what this was from…









Compared to a normal Stanley frog bolt…


















have just this one…although I do have 2 of the frog bolts….


----------



## Notw

> Original from my 150 box on left and repro I made for Notw on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me get a roller screw made and I'll send em your way later this week notw.
> 
> - HokieKen


ohhhhh that looks awesome!!!


----------



## adot45

Very nice work there Ken.


----------



## BlasterStumps

+1 ⌃


----------



## Bearcontrare

Does anyone here have any experience with a Stanley 2360? It's ugly as a mud fence, but looks like it will git er dun. Very i dustrial looking.
Thought I'd get some input before ynging into a purchase for once. TIA folks!


----------



## JethroBodean

If it comes with the saw then go for it. But I've never seen one with the original saw. It pretty much needs to be a non-adjustable hack saw. I finally found a 'Bell Systems' saw that works. I've only used mine a couple of times, but it does work as expected.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Thank you for the informarion! Found out shortly after posting the question that this miter box is for cutting metal. Who'da thunk it…..???


----------



## HokieKen

Not sure what your knurled screw is from Bandit. It's not from a 150 box, the end has to taper in to fit into the notches in the quadrant. You'll probably figure out what it's from about a week after you give it away ;-) Fortunately, it turns out I have knurling rollers that replicate that diamond pattern just about perfectly though if you need another in the future.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd appreciate a little help from anyone who has a 150 box and has the wooden wheel on the backside that prevents the saw from bottoming out.

Jon sent me some great pics and measurements on parts missing from my box and I can for the most part make replications from his pics but one measurement he didn't give me and I didn't have the foresight to ask for is the head of the screw that holds the wood wheel and lets it spin. These are the pics he sent me:


















I know the thread is a #10 so I'm pretty sure the shaft above the thread is probably 3/16". But the head diameter is being illusive. When I scale it from the picture, I come up with a diameter somewhere between 1/4" and 5/16". My gut tells me it's probably 1/4". And it doesn't really matter, I can make it so it works without knowing exactly what size it should have been. But, I'd like to make it as original as possible.

So do any of you have one of the screws that you can measure the diameter of the head for me? TIA!


----------



## JethroBodean

I should be able to get you the answers but it won't be until at least tomorrow.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's my first all-steel. GP 1285B. It's a late model from late 30's to mid 40's I believe. I found the saw a few years ago and have been keeping an eye out for a box since then. I think it might be all there except for the length stop hardware. I'm anxious to get working on it but it may be a few days yet. It's a bit of a mess but at least it has compulsory paint spatters : )


----------



## drsurfrat

> ... but at least it has compulsory paint spatters : )
> - BlasterStumps


I believe that there is an as-yet-unnamed type of gremlin that runs around old tools with a toothbrush full of paint and flicks it all over the place.


----------



## HokieKen

> I should be able to get you the answers but it won t be until at least tomorrow.
> 
> - JethroBodean


I'd sure appreciate it Jeff


----------



## HokieKen

Nice box Mike. Let me know if Kev doesn't square you away on the length stop when he gets into Jon's stash.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks, will do. 


> Nice box Mike. Let me know if Kev doesn't square you away on the length stop when he gets into Jon's stash.
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## HokieKen

Notw FINALLY got me motivated to knock this off my personal to-do list where it's been for around 2 years…









Now, any bets on how long it takes me to make a wood wheel?

Nevermind the measurement Jeff. I had some free time and figured I should take it while it was there. I just went with 1/4".

Notw, shoot me an address!


----------



## theoldfart

I just got in and unloaded the car. I have no idea what's in the boxes yet. But I did get ten or so mitre boxes.


----------



## HokieKen

Wow that's quite a load Kev! Tbe situation is certainly unfortunate but Jon couldn't have chosen a better steward.


----------



## theoldfart

Wish I could have taken everything. Left a lot of saws, wooden mitre boxes and the like.


----------



## JethroBodean

Kenny
Hopefully this is what you are needing. I measured two different screws and here's what I came up with

Unthreaded part of the shaft Dia: 0.161" and 0.164" 
Screw Head Dia: 0.250" (1/4")
Height of Screw Head: 0.108" and 0.115" (I believe the shorter screw head was off a MW box)

BTW: I couple use a few my self.


----------



## Johnny7

> ... Jon couldn't have chosen a better steward.
> 
> - HokieKen


+1 to that sentiment


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Jeff. Looks like I guessed right on the head diameter  How many is a "few"? I've got a few other jobs ahead of you in the queue but I'll add it to the list ;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin, that's very nice of you to step up and see that cache through to the end, through a rather tedious waiting period that had it's own unique set of challenges. You've reminded me patience is indeed a virtue. You're a good man, charlie brown. Glad you're here!


----------



## Ocelot

What TOF is doing should remind all of us not to collect so much stuff. <sigh>


----------



## Ocelot

The builder who built my shop specializes in garages and the like. He told me he personally had (at that time) 13 of them. From time to time, his wife would tell him that she was out of storage and he'd build her another as soon as he and the crew had some slack time. I doubt she collects woodworking tools, but somebody's going to have a heck of a job someday dealing with all that.


----------



## Mosquito

on the contrair, just collect good friends too


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks to all the compliments.

Got a good nights sleep so I'll post pics of what will be available later.

It is an eclectic mix .


----------



## theoldfart

This was one of my hoped for boxes.










Jon had put two of them on the side for me but passed before we could finish the transaction.


----------



## HokieKen

Is that the Jacobs patent pre-cursor to the 150 Kev?


----------



## theoldfart

No. It,s a Hughes Double cut manufactured by Barcus. It can do a compound mitre cut.

I knew Jon had some LW Jacobs boxes but I could not find them.


----------



## theoldfart

A couple more obscure boxes, revolving mitre boxes.










Dorn's patent manufactured by Braunsdorf Meuler.


----------



## theoldfart

Also, I have two more of Trauts patent mitre box. It started Stanley on the mitre box business.


----------



## HokieKen

Ooooh. I like those Dorn's revolving boxes. I remember drooling when you posted yours sometime back


----------



## BlasterStumps

Had one of those Trauts boxes (I think) in my hands just the other day. Dang, it was in bad shape so I had to pass on it.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, I think I can help you out with your "problem" ! 

PM me.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Also, I have two more of Trauts patent mitre box. It started Stanley on the mitre box business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Kevin,
Does this mean 'available"? I have no clue, but I think I could learn on that, and I'm in the Stanley camp.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike yes. I'll post pics of both in the next day or two.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I have a #2 tree and Kent I have a #3-4 tree. Postage and they are yours!
These were the only ones.
PM me with addresses.

Andy, there aren't any trips that I can find, sorry.


----------



## theoldfart

Sorry, should have said that the trees did not have any of the other parts with them.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Sorry, should have said that the trees did not have any of the other parts with them.
> 
> - theoldfart


C'est la vie. I'm still a lot further ahead with just the tree. You have my info via PM.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't know anything about those trees or what other parts should be with it. But depending on what the missing parts are and whether you guys are looking for original or just functional, I may be able to help


----------



## KentInOttawa

> I don t know anything about those trees or what other parts should be with it. But depending on what the missing parts are and whether you guys are looking for original or just functional, I may be able to help
> 
> - HokieKen


If I need your services to make the tree work, maybe I shouldn't be using the mitre saw. ;-) Thanks for the offer, though.

The tree is the important part here. The rest is just a pair of steel rods and there is a coupler that I've seen mounted on one of the rods. I "believe" that the coupler is just to make things less fiddly when the rods are stowed under the base. Here's a video on the 358, starting with the tree and rods length stop.


----------



## HokieKen

Ah, now I see Kent. Yeah, I don't guess you'd need anything made for that


----------



## CL810

No problem, thanks for trying Kevin - keep up the good deeds!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here are the ball bearings that go in the saw guides on this GP 1285B box. I had a dickens of a time getting two of them to move in their sockets but after an all night soak they are okay now. Wonder about oiling the ball in the socket or leaving it dry? Might be a bit of fun to get them set correctly in the guides again so that the spine of the saw rests evenly on them. I think I will need some type of thread compound to hold them threaded in place after adjusting them.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, leave 'em dry. Oil in a mitre box just attracts the dust and gums up the works.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm with Kev. No oil or grease on my boxes except a light coat of paste wax on the king bolt conical surface. Those bearings aren't seeing enough action to generate enough heat to need any. Some blue loctite would probably be a good idea to make 'em stay put but still be easily removed.


----------



## drsurfrat

If they are sticky, you might try mountain bike chain lube, which isn't a grease. It dries like wax, and was designed to NOT pick up dirt. (e.g., Pedros Ice Wax)

I also remember from my childhood "dri lube", now that name is from WD-40.


----------



## BlasterStumps

good suggestions guys, thanks for the input. I will leave them dry.


----------



## bandit571

VERY skimpy rust hunt, today….small Miter Box…









24" version….backsaw is 14" long, BTW..









Don't let the rust fool ya, that saw is still quite sharp. Grip may be plastic…but they did checker it….Bolts are phillips.

I did find an Air Gun…









Not sure…that white ceramic nozzle was cracked….by the set screw holding in place…

And the usual suspects…









Yep, Chisel is solid steel. Screwdriver might be an Irwin…

$7 total…for today…..( + a $5 weed-eater….shh)


----------



## Notw

Big thank you to @HokieKen for the hardware for my Stanley No 150, package came in yesterday and everything screwed in perfectly and looked awesome.


----------



## HokieKen

Great Notw! I assumed it would since I have a box to test it on but you never can tell for sure with these vintage things ;-)


----------



## Notw

screwed right in, now i just need to turn the wooden portion of the depth stop


----------



## HokieKen

Me too. First I need to clear some of the half-finished projects out of the shop though so I can clean all the crap off my wood lathe…


----------



## bandit571

Keeping the 14" Backsaw….however, that wooden thing is just tooooooo big….both the length and the height….saw will bottom out long before it reaches the deck board….sent to the fire pit.









24", and only 3 places to make a cut….and too tall for the saw….

As soon as I can get the proper file for those 9ppi teeth…gonna give it a tip on the Old Wentworth saw vise…


----------



## controlfreak

> Me too. First I need to clear some of the half-finished projects out of the shop though so I can clean all the crap off my wood lathe…
> 
> - HokieKen


If I had a lathe in my shop I can only imagine that it would quickly look like a Nordic track in a bedroom. Every one I have seen has about three seasons of clothes on it. Come to think of it, my jointer resembles that.


----------



## Ocelot

You guys are helping me feel more normal.


----------



## HokieKen

My jointer hasn't been unencumbered enough to use in at least two years CF.

You are not alone Paul.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...it would quickly look like a Nordic track in a bedroom. Every one I have seen has about three seasons of clothes on it. Come to think of it, my jointer resembles that.
> 
> - controlfreak


No Nordictrack here. I just go to the gym so they can store/clean/maintain all that kinda stuff for me. My wife does have a clothes rack with pedals and a seat though…


----------



## Ocelot

Besides the too many tools, my shop is littered with toys and household goods and the cat often lies at my feet. Sometimes he tells the truth though, especially when I step on a paw or tail.


----------



## HokieKen

.


----------



## theoldfart

For those waiting on me for responses/stuff I'm temporarily out of commission. Kent/Smitty things are packed so as soon as I'm independently mobile they will be shipped. I start PT to date so it should be quick. Airframer, still haven't heard from you, I have the #2 tree.


----------



## HokieKen

No hurry Kev. Hope the PT goes well for you!


----------



## controlfreak

Get well Kevin, that's the important thing, the other stuff can wait.


----------



## controlfreak

I have never really gotten a good feeling cut with my GP miter box. I suspect that the saws I have need not only sharpening but setting too. They feel like they get progressively tighter as I cut into the board. I dread doing a fine tooth saw but with the saw till complete and a new mount for my saw vise it is time to give it a shot.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm sure somebody has recommended Bob Summerfield to you before CF but if you want a saw that behaves exactly as it should so you have a standard to shoot for, I highly recommend his services.


----------



## RWE

Getting decent files is an issue. I buy them at monthly flea market that I go to. At a $1 each, many are worn out but occasionally you get a good one. A vintage file is a good thing.

Summerfi recommends the Nicholson file as the best modern file that is easy to obtain and works fairly well but doesn't last.. Essentially, you can get one or two saws done with it and throw it away. For a mitre box saw, it might take two files. Use a sharpie to mark zones and sharpen a zone at a time till you get finished.

I am sure you probably know this, but having a sharp file takes some of the drudgery out of it. Joint the plate and cut till you take the blunted point off.

I have been away from the saw thing for a while, but just landed about 3 handsaws to joint and sharpen.

For me, getting past the sharpening to the setting gets me excited so that I don't mind the setting as much.


----------



## bandit571

This might take a while…









Black Plastic handle has Taiwan cast onto both side….Trying to get a better shot at what is left of the Black Silkscreened logos….

Folded steel back…grip has a checkered texture….Phillips bolts…into inbedded nuts. Plate is straight, as is the back…


----------



## theoldfart

CF, if the cuts are square in both axis's then check your set. Also wax the plate.


----------



## controlfreak

> I m sure somebody has recommended Bob Summerfield to you before CF but if you want a saw that behaves exactly as it should so you have a standard to shoot for, I highly recommend his services.
> 
> - HokieKen


Bob seems very busy. I just wanted to try this as I imagine carpenters and makers in the day would sharpen their own saws. I will try it and that way he will charge me double to fix it.


----------



## bandit571

see how this shows up..









Part of this almost looks like a "..K4005" 









No medalion…unless that "TAIWAN" counts….phillips headed bolts. handle is crowded for 4 fingers, nice for 3..









Other side, hex nuts….again with that "TAIWAN" molded onto the top edge…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> … as soon as I'm independently mobile…
> 
> - theoldfart


 What the ??

Take care of yourself, you Old Fart!


----------



## HokieKen

> Bob seems very busy. I just wanted to try this as I imagine carpenters and makers in the day would sharpen their own saws. I will try it and that way he will charge me double to fix it.
> 
> - controlfreak


Bob is perpetually busy I think. Between fighting fires, building a community orchard (or something along those lines, can't recall specifics) and being highly sought after for saw services of all kinds, I don't think he watches a lot of TV ;-) He does seem to squeeze the small job in here and there for LJs though if he's able to 

I agree fully with your logic. And I spent a full weekend trying to shape, sharpen and set my saw and just never got it done to my satisfaction. Since it was my first miter saw, I thought it was worth it to get it pro-tuned because I really just didn't know how it was supposed to behave. It was worth the expense to me.

Regarding set, when I was trying to figure it out on my own, I got a tip from Brian Noel (BearkatWood) on evening out the set. Overset your saw slightly and then put some tape on the plate above the teeth. Then take a diamond stone and lay it flat on the tape and run it down the teeth on each side. That should give you constant set at the thickness of the tape. And if you use your red dye before stoning, you'll be able to see if you under-set any of the teeth. I've use that trick on other saws I've sharpened since and it works perfectly.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> For those waiting on me for responses/stuff I'm temporarily out of commission. Kent/Smitty things are packed so as soon as I'm independently mobile they will be shipped. I start PT to date so it should be quick. Airframer, still haven't heard from you, I have the #2 tree.
> 
> - theoldfart


Take your time and take care of your health first. Que sera sera.


----------



## controlfreak

> Bob seems very busy. I just wanted to try this as I imagine carpenters and makers in the day would sharpen their own saws. I will try it and that way he will charge me double to fix it.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> Bob is perpetually busy I think. Between fighting fires, building a community orchard (or something along those lines, can t recall specifics) and being highly sought after for saw services of all kinds, I don t think he watches a lot of TV ;-) He does seem to squeeze the small job in here and there for LJs though if he s able to
> 
> I agree fully with your logic. And I spent a full weekend trying to shape, sharpen and set my saw and just never got it done to my satisfaction. Since it was my first miter saw, I thought it was worth it to get it pro-tuned because I really just didn t know how it was supposed to behave. It was worth the expense to me.
> 
> Regarding set, when I was trying to figure it out on my own, I got a tip from Brian Noel (BearkatWood) on evening out the set. Overset your saw slightly and then put some tape on the plate above the teeth. Then take a diamond stone and lay it flat on the tape and run it down the teeth on each side. That should give you constant set at the thickness of the tape. And if you use your red dye before stoning, you ll be able to see if you under-set any of the teeth. I ve use that trick on other saws I ve sharpened since and it works perfectly.
> 
> - HokieKen


Now this is interesting…..hmm. I did place a miter saw in the chops to try to figure out the geometry. Of course if it is already borked I am clueless. It's a saw, what can possibly go wrong?


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, the good news is that unless your an extra special kinda screwer-upper somebody like Bob can fix it in short order after you're done ;-) If your teeth are in good enough shape that you don't have to do any significant reshaping you can probably use what's there as a guide and do a pretty good job of it.


----------



## Notw

And then there were two, a Stanley 2246 showed up this week, hopefully it is complete. but the big win is it came with a spare saw i can use in my 150 box


----------



## bandit571

Random Mitre Box Picture….









Stanley No. 358, doing a little trim work.
.








Unable to get back to the Langdon 75, nor the Stanley No. 346…..Stanley 2246 is even further back…


----------



## bandit571

And the rest of the boxes…how many can you see?









A fifth one is hiding behind the saw til….


----------



## Notw

Started the disassembly on my Stanley 2246 over the long weekend and most of it is straight forward but I am curious about the length stops. I am thinking where mine is locked into the adjustment should have been a thumb wheel, but I am still not certain how it all works. All the pieces to the length stop were stored under the miter box when I got it. Does anyone have pictures of one in action or how it attaches?


----------



## controlfreak

I was needing to cut some 2×4's into smaller pieces for test rail and style practice tenon joint. I looked at the table saw and decided to go for the miter saw instead. Dead on 90 degrees. I am enjoying some manual sawing with that GP box.


----------



## HokieKen

Somebody here does Notw. I'm pretty sure the bottom of the tree attaches to the leg of the miter box with a bar and the top bar slides in/out to set the length and there should be a thumb screw to lock the tree down on both bars.


----------



## BlasterStumps

there is a parts description and picture at the top of the thread page that shows the complete Stanley box. Hope that helps.


----------



## Notw

That does help blaster, so it is an "I" and the bottom sits on the bench. And Ken's picture shows me that my top screw is snapped off and should have been a screw. Thanks gents this makes a lot more sense now.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah, sounds right. I think the one in my pic is mounted backwards too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No tap and die joy, Kenny. Did you really send mine somewhere else?


----------



## HokieKen

Sorry Smitty. It's "In transit, arriving late". It went to St. Louis, then to Breese and now it's back in St. Louis. I guess it just really enjoyed it's time in St. Louis and wanted to go back?

I'll PM you the tracking number.


----------



## Johnny7

*Mystery Part*

I was recently given a Millers Falls 73A, size 2½ box.
I don't know my MF boxes the way I know Stanleys.

I'd like to know the purpose of the knob/rod assembly on the right hand side of the frame.
Does it retain a length stop of somekind, and if so, why the intersecting hole on the right.

It is not pictured in any of the MF parts catalogs to which I have access.
Over the years, a dozen or more of these have come through the shop, but none had this "feature".


----------



## theoldfart

I've not seen that before Johnny. Most likely a user improvement?

Edit. The Langdon reference site has a few with those features, namely a 74A circa 1040 ish and a 74A circa 1938.
https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/gallery/millers-falls/langdon-74a-1940/

It's a length stop for repeat cuts.


----------



## Johnny7

Hi TOF

Nice to hear from you.

I don't think it is an aftermarket mod. There is a boss cast into the underside of the foot assembly which accepts the threaded end of the bolt.

A shot of the underside of the "right end" of the box, followed by a shot of the underside of the other end.


----------



## Johnny7

> Edit. The Langdon reference site has a few with those features, namely a 74A circa 1040 ish and a 74A circa 1938.
> https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/gallery/millers-falls/langdon-74a-1940/
> 
> It's a length stop for repeat cuts.
> 
> - theoldfart


Good eye!

Don't know how I missed those pics.
That's the first place I looked, before combing the catalogs.

I will struggle mightily against my baser OCD tendencies and not try to find those pieces.

Thanks Kev.


----------



## theoldfart

You KNOW you gotta find 'em, it's a moral imperative!


----------



## Johnny7

> You KNOW you gotta find 'em, it's a moral imperative!
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes … I know


----------



## KentInOttawa

> *Mystery Part*
> 
> I d like to know the purpose of the knob/rod assembly on the right hand side of the frame.
> Does it retain a length stop of somekind, and if so, why the intersecting hole on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Johnny7





> A shot of the underside of the "right end" of the box, followed by a shot of the underside of the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Johnny7





> Edit. The Langdon reference site has a few with those features, namely a 74A circa 1040 ish and a 74A circa 1938. https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/gallery/millers-falls/langdon-74a-1940/
> 
> It's a length stop for repeat cuts.
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> Good eye!
> 
> Don t know how I missed those pics.
> That s the first place I looked, before combing the catalogs.
> 
> I will struggle mightily against my baser OCD tendencies and not try to find those pieces.
> 
> Thanks Kev.
> 
> - Johnny7


Johnny7 - based on the Langdon reference site pictures, have the legs on your box been switched left for right? The reference site shows the knob at the rear of the box while yours is mounted on the front.


----------



## theoldfart

Left side hole in front, right side hole in back. Probably to accommodate different width stock.

Thumb screw holes are the reverse.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks. That should also make the parts interchangeable left-to-right, no?


----------



## Johnny7

> Thanks. That should also make the parts interchangeable left-to-right, no?
> 
> - Kent


Yes.

There is but a single casting for the leg. As a result, the front and side holes "move" depending on installed position.

When using the length stop on the right hand side, one would simply flip the rod with the right angle bend so that the end faces forward.

There is also only a single knurled head bolt. One would move it to one end or the other as needed.


----------



## JethroBodean

OK, I think I'm learning something new. I think you are saying that at some point the All Steel gained a new style length stop that was a bit like the Stanley "rod and tree".

Are these parts of said all steel length stops? The were clamped into the 'V' grooves rails of a Miller Falls era all steel boxes I picked up a couple of years ago. I've never known what they were for. I was positive they weren't an original part of a mitre box. Now you have me thinking otherwise. You can see that the two 'L' rods different lengths.

If these actually are correct pieces, then I'd love to see more shots of how they are used. My gray matter is not yet grasping all of the working parts.


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, I think your mixing the GP All Steel with the Langdon Acme line.


----------



## JethroBodean

That is probably true, but are these actual mitre box length stop parts?

They were locked into the V grooves of an all steel. Now I have an excuse to go out to the shop and ponder the wonders of the universe and the various boxes in that universe.


----------



## theoldfart

They appear to be Langdon Acme length stop parts. I think someone just put them on the All Steel just because they happen to fit the V slot.


----------



## HokieKen

If that's the case, somebody would have had to machine that piece down, right Kev? If it's the one I'm thinking of it's a hex bar? And it would be tapped for the thumbscrews on both ends too I think. Is yours threaded on the other end too Jethro?


----------



## HokieKen




----------



## bandit571

Was debating whether I actually NEEDED a Shooting Board and Plane.. after using..









This Stanley #358 to cut a 5" wide panel..









And this is right off the saw…..

Yard Sale this morning ….had a tall wastebasket, with about 10 rusty handsaws….$3-$5 each….including a VERY rusty 5×28" backsaw ( no miter box in sight) with a badly made replacement handle ( $5 ?!?) Blade near rhe handle had a large triangle notch in it….figured it just wasn't worth the effort to lift out of the tub…oh well.


----------



## Johnny7

*Has anyone here …*

successfully removed the "swinging lever" on a MF Langdon Acme 7x series miter box?
(or know how to remove the "gib"?)

I have circled both parts on the accompanying catalog page.


----------



## theoldfart

Does yours look like this










This is a 74 # 2 1/2


----------



## Johnny7

> Does yours look like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a 74 # 2 1/2
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes it does. (mine's a 73A, size 2)


----------



## theoldfart

Johnny, it's a press fit. Remove this bolt.









Once the bolt is out you can drive it off with a punch and hammer.










Hope this helps.


----------



## Johnny7

It absolutely helps!

Thanks so much Kevin - for the explanation and awesome photos.


----------



## theoldfart

Glad it helped. I ran out into the shop and dismantled a box I've had for years. Turns out I didn't need to quite that much bit now I'll clean it up!


----------



## Johnny7

I suspected you took those photos in response to my question.

Your generosity of spirit is greatly appreciated.


----------



## theoldfart

I just put up a video in the blog section. It's on the Traut patent mitre box by Stanley.


----------



## drsurfrat

It's fantastic. Again, thank you Kevin.


----------



## Johnny7

> I just put up a video in the blog section. It's on the Traut patent mitre box by Stanley.
> 
> - theoldfart


Kevin,

Great job on the video.

I have one of these somewhere-with a makeshift repair to one leg casting.
I was unaware of the removable bar under the sacrificial board.

Now, if only we had segments for every box ever made!


----------



## theoldfart

I'm working on it!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I need to add an index section in the OP to document those as you get them done!


----------



## theoldfart

Not a problem, there's two out there so far.


----------



## Johnny7

*Calling HokieKen*

I write to you today not only in your capacity as a Millers Falls fan, but also as a machinist.
The ball you see between the anvil and spindle in photo 1 was among those which made a break for it while I was removing the swing arm on an old MF Acme Langdon.

I tore the place apart and found a total of 31 (pictured).

1. am I correct in reading this mike as .125 or 1/8"?

2. I'll never know how many were present before the tragedy, but should this "race" be full?

3. does it matter what alloy/grade/hardness I get?


----------



## drsurfrat

I know I am not Kenny, but every race I have taken apart has had only room for one more ball. looks like you are short about four. The swing arm is not a high stress area, so if you just put it together as is, it might be ok. I don't think you will get any teeter or bad slop with that many balls.


----------



## HokieKen

Johnny - yes that mic reads .125".

Normally the race will be nearly full with space for a little leas than one more ball. But, like Mike said, I think for this application, you have enough there to do the job. If you want to fill it out, any hardened steel balls will do as long as they're the same size.

Is that the main pivot where the king bolt goes? My Langdon 74 has a metal-on-metal contact surface for the pivot.


----------



## Johnny7

Thanks Ken

Yes, that's the main pivot on a size 2, 73A.
Kevin took his 74 apart to show me how to remove the gib, and made the same observation re the pivot.

I was expecting it to look like a Stanley - that's why I got caught off guard. One other interesting thing I noticed: there is a tiny oil hole so you can lube the shoulder of the king bolt where it rides in the casting.


----------



## controlfreak

You will find the other four one at a time only after re assembling the saw box.

Have you tried a really good magnet yet?


----------



## Johnny7

> You will find the other four one at a time only after re assembling the saw box.
> 
> Have you tried a really good magnet yet?
> 
> - controlfreak


I have indeed tried a magnet, followed by a totally empty shop vac.


----------



## controlfreak

I suppose it is possible this may not have been the first time this has happened. You seemed to be very complete in your search technique.


----------



## Johnny7

> I suppose it is possible this may not have been the first time this has happened. You seemed to be very complete in your search technique.
> 
> - controlfreak


actually never had this happen before-recovery techniques employed simply the resulting of logical reasoning.
(on the other hand, I have had e-clips, c-clips, retaining rings, etc. take flight)


----------



## HokieKen

Excellent video Kev! Thanks for taking the time


----------



## controlfreak

> I suppose it is possible this may not have been the first time this has happened. You seemed to be very complete in your search technique.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> actually never had this happen before-recovery techniques employed simply the resulting of logical reasoning.
> (on the other hand, I have had e-clips, c-clips, retaining rings, etc. take flight)
> 
> - Johnny7


Wasn't talking about you but a possible previous owner. Or a factory worker with that "can't see it from my house" mentality, although that was rare back in the day.


----------



## HokieKen

Retaining rings are the absolute worst. I hate those lil bastards.


----------



## controlfreak

Boing and it's gone.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wrong saw. Anyone got a 16" x 2 3/4" under the spine laying around, looking for a forever home?


----------



## theoldfart

Nah, I'm all out!

Looks workable for the moment.


----------



## BobLeistner

Johnny7, if you are on friendly terms with an auto repair shop nearby, they'd likely have those ball bearings in the bottom of multiple junk drawers.DAHIK  I'll look at my shop tomorrow if still needed.


----------



## Johnny7

Bob
Thanks for the offer - as it turns out I have carloads of every sort of hardware imaginable, if I can just figure out which bin …


----------



## theoldfart

It's the one with the ball bearings in it Johnny!

No need to thank me, I just know things.


----------



## HokieKen

What box is that Smitty?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A GP 2 1/2", Model 1625

I have a 16" Jennings backsaw on the way. Plan is to remove the plate, cut it to size, and reinstall it.


----------



## Johnny7

> It's the one with the ball bearings in it Johnny!
> 
> No need to thank me, I just know things.
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Kevin-what sorcery is this that you could know such things?


----------



## theoldfart

It's a gift from aliens.

That and having a smart mouth I guess.


----------



## HokieKen

A gift from aliens? I didn't know you were a Scientoligist.


----------



## Ocelot

Spammer says you get a free *trail*!


----------



## controlfreak

Momma said nothing is free.


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, I have several of the EC Stearns style mitre jigs. Is anyone interested in having said doohickeys?










Let me know via PM.

Oh yea, let's say $15 plus shipping.

As before, I ask that you don't ask for one with the intent of re selling and making enough to retire!


----------



## BlasterStumps

A couple weeks back, I had taken the GP 1285B all apart and gave it a clean. I finally got back together and everything adjusted. On old tools, sometimes it's a gamble as to whether or not it will be worth the money. Well I'm happy to report that this old mitre box and saw seem happy together and work amazingly well. Pretty happy with how it turned out, even though it is not all spruced up. I repainted the frame only. One day, if I can find paint I like, maybe I will paint the tables and fence pieces.


----------



## controlfreak

I have two GP's and need to do the same. It is difficult to figure out the best colors to use to make it original looking when all the documents of the day are in black and white. I can't remember where I saw the picture but it was a GP all steel restored that had a shade of green on it. Would love to know if it is an interpretation or if someone has seen a mint one.


----------



## Ocelot

So… you're asking if it was *mint* green?


----------



## controlfreak

> So… you re asking if it was *mint* green?
> 
> - Ocelot


Back in my textile days I would call it Rieter green
but this is just a recollection. I remember thinking that looks good but is it how it would have looked new? That is what I am after if possible.


----------



## bandit571

While digging through the Spares Boxes….looking for hinges and a latch..and a bunch of TINY screws…lookee what I find….









Over on the right side, about centered….I do not have the screws for it,,,anyone need a coupler?


----------



## HokieKen

What's a prime number that can produce compound angles?









A number 41 of course!

Much thanks to Kev and Jon (RIP) for helping this make its way to me. I've been on the hunt for one of these fellas for some time and I told Kev that I'd really like to have something from Jon's collection. That fact that this scratches both itches makes me grin  Thanks again Kev!


----------



## theoldfart

Wow, you got it put together that fast?

And that's Star 41 for those of us in the know!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Kev, less than two hours for me to put both those screws in to reassamble it 

And not only is it a Star 41, it's a LANGDON Star 41 by MILLERS FALLS. So it's found its forever home in my shop )


----------



## theoldfart

It went to a good home so I'm happy.


----------



## Johnny7

> So it's found its forever home in my shop )
> 
> - HokieKen


Alas, we are but temporary custodians of these artifacts …

(nevertheless, congrats HokieKen, that 41's a beauty)


----------



## HokieKen

Very true Johnny. When I say "forever" I just mean until I die. I figure after that I probably won't care what happens to my tools. Probably.


----------



## controlfreak

Kind of makes me wonder if my kids (3) or grand kids (3+1 soon) will want any tools? I think I will do a project with the grands over Christmas and see who takes interest. I know one will be in front of a video game so that leaves two left for the project I suppose.


----------



## HokieKen

I don't think you can really gauge their interest as kids. You can get a good read on what their creative interests are and how they express them but IMO most kids lack the attention span to truly take an interest in a hobby that involves delayed gratification to any extent. When I was a kid, I loved building models. And I didn't mind ones that were extremely detailed. But if it took me more than few days of working an hour here and there, I'd loose interest in it before it was done. I just couldn't keep stumbling down the tunnel if I couldn't see the light at the other end.

So yeah, absolutely do a project with them. And make it something they'll like when it's finished. But make it something they can finish in a short period. I wouldn't count on them wanting to spend 4 or 5 hours or multiple days working on it. And don't be discouraged when none of em develop an innate desire to pursue the perfect dovetail technique with reckless abandon. If any of them do, that kid is weird ;-) And by all means embrace and foster that weirdness to the best of your ability ;-)

My oldest grandson is nine and will literally play video games from the time he wakes up until the time he goes to bed if allowed to. The only time he will willingly quit is if I'm whittling. Without fail he'll drop what he's doing, ask my son to get him his knife and come sit down with me and pester the living sh!# out of me. Drives me nuts but I don't mind. For whatever reason, whittling a stick down to look like a knife or spear or whatever is how he expresses his creativity.

So yeah, I find with kids, you gotta play on their level and just foster whatever naturally manifests. Making them do something because you think that when they're finished a sense of accomplishment and pride in a job well done will endear them to that task rarely plays out that way ;-) Just help em sharpen a stick when they take a notion and if you're real lucky, maybe you'll get to teach em to dovetail one day.


----------



## RWE

Funny that you mention building models. I have wondered if there was any correlation with the membership here and hobbies like building models in their childhood.

I had/have an Erector set that was a big deal to me. I made bulldozers and Ferris wheels etc. It took a lot of time to do the nuts and bolts technique. When I gave the set to my son, he had no interest. He wanted K-nex.

I made a lot of models as well.

I did have a large workshop (Forestry Headquarters, my father was a forester) with work bench to play on. One Jack, one Block, brace and bit, couple of handsaws, drawknives. So hand tools kind of take me back to my childhood. I figure that is the strongest part of my background that makes me a tool nut.

But I figure the restoration and fiddling with planes and such might have some connection to the early years and model building.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Funny that you mention building models. I have wondered if there was any correlation with the membership here and hobbies like building models in their childhood.
> 
> - RWE


I would say you're probably right. Most of us probably took things apart and sometimes even tried to build things.

For me, in order, it was lincoln logs, Mecano sets (damned sharp square nuts), Lego and plastic models. Later, there was some puttering with balsa model planes and just rooting through various family members' junk drawers and toolboxes. I was never properly introduced to any tools whatsoever but I do remember fiddling around a fair bit with an old Sargent smoother just to take it apart and try and figure out how it should work. I stumbled into woodworking much later.


----------



## HokieKen

Yep I spent a lot of time gluing plastic model kits together as a kid. I guess that might explain a few things ;-) Funny thing is, when I left home after high school, I threw every one of those models away without a second thought. Never even considered keeping them. It was just about the process for me, never the finished product.

I had access to my grandparent's shop which was right next door as a kid. Lots of tools and scrap wood. I never took a real firm interest in woodworking for the sake of the craft but I would get an idea from time-to-time and work out a design and build something. I made a ton of slingshots as a kid too. And wooden boats so I could try to make them float on the fire pond. I bet there's half a ton of pine boards at the bottom of that pond


----------



## RWE

My other idea is that a lot of woodworkers seem to have an IT connection. I program a bit. I get (used to before I got too old) the same satisfaction doing code/programming work as I do with building with wood.

I think you are pre-dispositioned toward building or a DIY mentality in your genetics. I have friends and family that could not operate a screwdriver and would not want to or care to. Anyway, this DIY attitude is either there or it is not. I have always felt that if it needed doing, I could do it. (draw the line on electrical and plumbing, at least the more serious electrical and plumbing).

That DIY thing is what propels me along in life. However, with the recent kitchen makeover, it has enslaved me. I am coming to terms that it might be wise to hire some of the work done, particularly the painting. Boring.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Plastic blocks (not lego blocks, but another 'brand'), lincoln logs, and tinker toys were all fun toys when I was a kid. My brother had an erector set that I wasn't allowed to play with. I did end up building dozens of Revelle models… mostly ships (carriers, PT boats, and even the Yellow Submarine!), tanks and airplanes. The British Spitfire, with US markings, was my absolute fave. Loved the shape, just like a DC3 (another great one) in so many ways.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah RWE, I try to learn to do anything that comes up that needs doing. However, now that I'm a little older, I find that I have more money than time and like to hire out things even if I know how to do them. Mudding drywall, painting, and laying carpet come immediately to mind. I don't mind hanging the drywall and I enjoy doing the trim but for some reason I just despise mudding and painting. Oh and ceilings. I'm done standing on ladders and working over my head thank you very much. I made that decision when I put in a new attic access a few months ago…

Plumbing I don't mind doing as long as it's not hard to get to. Electrical I actually enjoy. And I used to enjoy working on vehicles. I'm getting over that as I get older though. I am finding that I take great pleasure in maintaining/modifying/upgrading my motorcycle over the past few months. I'm about on the verge of learning to bend my own handlebars and uncover/modify/recover my seat because I can't find anything I want that's available at a reasonable price…


----------



## KentInOttawa

> My other idea is that a lot of woodworkers seem to have an IT connection.
> 
> - RWE


Yup. Mostly self-taught. Did that well enough to convince the military to send me to Germany for four years to maintain the software on NATO's AWACS. That tour was a hoot.



> Yeah RWE, I try to learn to do anything that comes up that needs doing. However, now that I m a little older, I find that I have more money than time and like to hire out things even if I know how to do them.
> 
> - HokieKen


Yup again, only I now have to contract out pretty well everything because of my limitations after my accident. It's not that I cannot do anything at all but rather that I'm not prepared to spend every little bit of my cognitive energy for weeks or months at a time for something that I can afford to let someone else do. It can make me a curmudgeonly client, though.


----------



## drsurfrat

The Traut's box showed up today. What a stunning piece of history. My saw fits fine, too.

*Kevin - and Jon - thank you.*


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, looks like it went together just fine. Hope you enjoy having it.


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome Mike! Looks right at home on that bench with its new best friend  I'm sure it'll see good use there.


----------



## Notw

So my tag line used to be "you got to be tough when you're stupid" but as I was attempting to put the components back together on the arm of my Stanley 2246 last night I figured I must be very tough! That thing is kicking my butt, but i am confident this evening after work I will be victorious


----------



## drsurfrat

> Mike, looks like it went together just fine. Hope you enjoy having it.
> - theoldfart


Yes, it did thanks to your video. I am already enjoying it immensely, and I haven't even cut a piece of wood yet. The brass knob/lever for the locking pin might even be related to a pineapple. I guess in colonial america it was a symbol of good luck and warm welcome. I certainly need luck with my miter cuts.


----------



## Notw

Looking back at this thread and some of the other mitre boxes I may have guessed wrong with my paint color for my Stanley 2246. After cleaning all the dirt and grime off the metal parts appeared to be grey, almost the same as old aircraft carriers. So that is the color I painted it, now looking back a lot of the old Stanley boxes were black….hmmm. Anyone have any history of gray versus black?


----------



## bandit571

Or…Navy Blue, like my 2246?


----------



## Notw

So I have "finished" my Stanley 2246 miter box. I put "finished" in quotes because I want to keep playing with the name tag and see if I can figure out a way to repaint or somehow make it better. I also lost a screw on the marker plate that I am still searching for (dangit). I went ahead and replaced the wood with Mahogany and while I was at it made a new saw handle out of Mahogany so they would match.

Some before pictures:


















Some after pictures:


----------



## HokieKen

That's fantastic Notw! The Mahogany deck and handle is a great touch


----------



## drsurfrat

Whoa! Fantastic is right. It fits right in with your pristine workbench, tool holders, full plane set…


----------



## Notw

Thank you both

Drsurfrat maybe i cleaned off the workbench to take the pictures  and the plane set is not full yet, still need a #1, #2 and #8


----------



## controlfreak

That looks like you may tear up each thin that saw puts a scar on that pretty deck, nice job on that!


----------



## Patrologia

Some nice set ups in here. Sadly, both of my miter boxes are still in the dreams stage. A Stanley 360 that I'm still looking for a saw for, and a 358 in pretty crusty shape and missing a few bits. If I can find what I need, I want to get one or both working again. This is a great thread for inspiration and motivation. (And perhaps a bit of distracted procrastination…)


----------



## JJCK

Hi all,

In the near future, I'll be gutting out a lot of the baseboards in my home and installing new ones. I have seen some people use miter boxes to cut their trim as it doesn't create a lot of noise or dust. This appeals to me greatly, as do hand tools in general. Can you all recommend me the smallest miter box that I can get away with that will still give me decent accuracy?

Thanks and I love seeing all the beautiful restorations on this thread.


----------



## controlfreak

"what's the best miter box" That kind of question should get some conversation started.

As far as a new box I have no idea. I put my chop saw in storage and don't miss it a bit. I much prefer a manual version combined with a coping saw and a shooting board. So much nicer on the ears, eyes and lungs.


----------



## JethroBodean

For a smaller vintage box, I don't think you can beat the Stanley 150.


----------



## bandit571

For items like base and jamb trim….even a Plastic Mitre Box from the BORG will get you started….make sure the handle is comfy for YOUR hand…and that the box has a way to clamp the work…..parts moving while getting sawn = BAD joints. Have a saw horse handy, to where you can screw the box to the sawhorse….about belt level should be fine….You don't want to be trying to hold the part, while making a cut…while also holding the box still…..

Look for a box with the tightest slots for the saw…..less slop = tighter joints.

Then, there is the Jorgenson look-a-likes…..look like a BIG hacksaw. You can walk into Lowes, and walk out with a Craftsman version..for around…$50 or so.

The Stanley #150 is nice for the smaller trim…but…some base moldings are way too tall…..makes it hard to cut a mitered end on a 5" tall base….with a saw that only cuts to less than 4" depth.

The plastic ones ( the good ones) have an extra slot…so you can lay that 5" base flat, and still saw a 45 degree bevel on the end….that you will need in the corners. 
The Plastic ones, with saw…run around $20 or so….again, grab the saw by the handle, and then imagine sawing a lot of cuts with that handle…..yeah….


----------



## CL810

Here's a vintage one that will, like the 150, accept a panel saw. This type was sold under many, many different names. Usually pretty inexpensive. Here's one on ebay.


----------



## Johnny7

I highly advise against getting a fixed slot plastic miter box such as are sold today in the big box stores.

There are few true 90° and 45° angles in a house of any age, and the plastic box will limit you to one of each, and you'll have to resort to shimming and other fiddly measures to get the exact angle you need.

I'm going to assume that you don't want to buy a vintage box and rehab it and its saw.

That leaves one good option-the Nobex

If you *do* want to go vintage, then the Stanley 150, the Stanley 116 and the box CL810 shows above will have you up and running with the least tinkering. Equally importantly, each of these allows the use of a panel saw as well as a backsaw.


----------



## JJCK

Thanks all for the suggestions thus far.



> If you *do* want to go vintage, then the Stanley 150, the Stanley 116 and the box CL810 shows above will have you up and running with the least tinkering. Equally importantly, each of these allows the use of a panel saw as well as a backsaw.


Thanks Johnny, the lack of tinkering helps.


----------



## HokieKen

I'd vote for the 150 too if you want a compact and very capable box.


----------



## drsurfrat

The Bonanza site has a 116 for sale. It is a legit site, don't specifically know the seller.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm running out of places to put saws, back of cabinets is now fair game.


----------



## theoldfart

Why have the coping stop on an All Steel mitre box?

To do this



















Roof trim for the passenger car I've been working on.


----------



## bandit571

So….raise your hands everybody…how many out there started out on one of them Black Plastic Stanley Miter Boxes?

Hmmmm? Or….Graduated (I guess?) up to the bright yellow ones, with the black locking pegs?

While re-doing the trim in Craig's burned out bedroom…..I had the saw bench up there…..To do the trim work..









That be a GEM Miter Box….with a run of the mill back saw….I could also just use a normal crosscut hand saw….with no problems….









A better view of the box…..when done with it, you simply fold the deck up, and put it back in the tool box….








Like this…..it even came with a brass rod, that went through the leaves of the deck….to keep things from folding up, while you are using it….Guides are adjusted to fit the saw being used.

have not had any issues with the old plastic models….nor the G.E.M. model…..current Mitre box of choice for my shop? Stanley No. 358…..for IN the shop work…..for work out side? Stanley No. 2246A, sitting on a Work Mate bench. YMMV …


----------



## bandit571

The Jorgenson Mitre Box…..there are a few other brand names for it,,,


















Mine just needs the blade sharpened..









Walk into Lowes right now…and buy a brand new one, that has a Craftsman brand name on it….


----------



## KentInOttawa

> So….raise your hands everybody…how many out there started out on one of them Black Plastic Stanley Miter Boxes?
> 
> - bandit571


I'm one, damn it! Of course, that may be why I don't have one now. I made a point of recycling the last two that came into my possession.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I had one of those black plastic boxes. Sometime back, it slid off the workbench and fell into the trash can. I meant to retrieve it but somehow it got covered up with sawdust and wood shavings along with some glue covered paper towels, empty cans, scraps of wood, wads of used duct tape and stuff like that. It wasn't long before I lost track of it all together. I lose more stuff that way


----------



## theoldfart

^


----------



## Lazyman

I never had a plastic one. I bought mine when they were made out of maple and I still have it.

I actually have to be careful not to have my trash can next to a bench where something might fall into it and not notice.


----------



## HokieKen

> Why have the coping stop on an All Steel mitre box?
> 
> To do this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roof trim for the passenger car I've been working on.
> 
> - theoldfart


That's way cool Kev


----------



## drsurfrat

Yes, very cool. You could hold all kinds of work for a controlled cut. I'm still trying to figure out why it's called a coping stop. Is it a pin that you can rest a coped profile against?


----------



## Lazyman

When a cutting miter on something like crown molding, you lean the molding against the fence and those stops help hold it in that position. You basically do the same thing with a modern sliding miter saw.


----------



## drsurfrat

Ah, Learn something new every day. Thanks, Kevin, Nathan.


----------



## theoldfart

Well the stop is 'Murican made by Kenny.

Mike, the stop is very versatile as Nathan pointed out.


----------



## HokieKen

No wonder that cut came out so good!

I made coping stops for my Langdon 75 too but I have yet to have a need to use them. If I hadn't made them, I would have though.


----------



## Notw

Does anyone happen to have an extra or know where I can get a thumb screw for the length stop for a Stanley Miter box, my 2246 came with one broken off that i had to drill out.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Does anyone happen to have an extra or know where I can get a thumb screw for the length stop for a Stanley Miter box, my 2246 came with one broken off that i had to drill out.
> 
> - Notw


My brain is foggy today; which part are you referring to?


----------



## Notw

Sorry the thumb screw that holds the bars, i have one am missing the other


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Sorry the thumb screw that holds the bars, i have one am missing the other
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Notw


Thanks. Fortunately for me, I just received my tree in the last few weeks so I could verify whether the thumb screw that I have would work. Unfortunately for you, it did not. Sorry.


----------



## drsurfrat

Can you measure the threads and diameter? If they're Stanley, they will likely be weird, and I might have an extra.


----------



## Notw

Diameter appears to be 1/4" and best i can count it is 24 threads per inch


----------



## drsurfrat

Man, of course wierd. I don't have one of those, but my list shows that the frog adjuster bolt (with the special shoulder groove) is 1/4"-24. If you have a Stanley bench plane with the frog adjustment, see if that is the right thread.

number 46 in this pic.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I can confirm that the thumbscrews on the 3-4 tree and the screw for a frog adjuster on a Stanley bench plane are indeed 1/4"-24. I even confirmed it with my screw pitch gauge. It's a happy day when I can find what I'm looking for.

Now to get Notw a 1/4"-24 thumb screw…


----------



## HokieKen

I might have a spare. I'll check when I get back home. I can turn one but it won't have the forged head like the original.


----------



## Notw

Can confirm what Kent confirmed they are the same

Ken if you have a spare that would be awesome, otherwise we can explore turning one.

Only place online I've found is to buy the entire length stop assembly with rods and everything for $144, I don't need the tree and rods and definitely don't want to spend that much


----------



## drsurfrat

And I have a spare frog screw if you don't mind the mismatch.


----------



## theoldfart

Now I have one of these.


----------



## tshiker

Hard to find them with all the parts TOF, nice addition!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks. I've learned that the tall clamps were probably custom made. The pant scheme seems odd but looks original. Still trying to check out later Stanley catalogues.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Wow, and with all the options. Very nice, Kevin!


----------



## HokieKen

Very cool Kev!



> ...
> 
> Ken if you have a spare that would be awesome, otherwise we can explore turning one.
> 
> - Notw


Sorry, the spare I have is a much smaller thread.


----------



## Notw

Luckily i had a spare frog adjustment screw for the time being, i'll have to keep my eyes open for another one in the future


----------



## HokieKen

A small torch and a ball peen hammer can turn that frog screw into a thumbscrew. The head wouldn't be as large but you wouldn't need a screw driver to tighten/loosen it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's proven to be a clutch setup at the G-P to get consistent results without stress… parts don't move while sawing.










Lots of mitre cuts made…


----------



## HokieKen

That's plumb badass work Smitty!


----------



## controlfreak

I will need to try that Smitty. I was blaming the saw not being sharp enough or set but maybe I am just shifting a bit. I have trouble with the saw binding near the end of the cut.


----------



## HokieKen

> I will need to try that Smitty. I was blaming the saw not being sharp enough or set but maybe I am just shifting a bit. I have trouble with the saw binding near the end of the cut.
> 
> - controlfreak


Binding near the end could very well be the set causing it to pull one way. How does the saw cut freehand out of the box? Does it naturally follow a straight line or pull one way or the other?


----------



## controlfreak

will need to do some testing Kenny, so much to do and so little time. I have a 36" by 54" panel door and jamb that is making it impossible to move in my shop. Only need to add hinges.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> What's proven to be a clutch setup at the G-P to get consistent results without stress… parts don't move while sawing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I have to do something similar, albeit more extreme, for pretty well every cut I make. Any shifting of a workpiece while I'm cutting can really trash my "understanding" of what I'm doing and what is happening with the cut. I keep a couple of 4" squares of plywood with my 358 to allow the clamps to span the webs under the table; it makes setting up more reliable and less likely to shift if I don't get it just right.

It slows me down a lot, but not as much as making 2 or more cuts.


----------



## bandit571

On a Stanley Mitre Box….there are two tiny, very pointy screws…that stick out through the fence near the opening for the saw….Suppose to keep sliding to a minimum…...Langdon does not.

Stock guides can also help hold a part while being sawn.


----------



## theoldfart

Clamping on an angled cut eliminates creeping during the cut. Long cuts on large stock magnify the issue.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> On a Stanley Mitre Box….there are two tiny, very pointy screws…that stick out through the fence near the opening for the saw….Suppose to keep sliding to a minimum…...Langdon does not.
> 
> Stock guides can also help hold a part while being sawn.
> 
> - bandit571


For whatever reason, the previous owner(s) have let those screws disappear from my box. I use what I have and do what I can with that. Does anybody know what size and thread those screws are?










Even with the stock guides, I find my workpiece often pulls away from the fence on the pull stroke whenever I'm trimming just an end. That movement is a killer for my brain and will often stop my shop activity for the day so I always keep a clamp or two ready to assist.


----------



## DanKrager

Kent, FWIW I have those screws in my box and find they are not as useful as hoped. I've often had them slip and score the piece. The farther out they are to grab better, the more damage they can do. Definitely not a clamp replacement IMHO.

I'll measure mine sometime today if I can remember to do so.

DanK


----------



## Johnny7

> Kent, FWIW I have those screws in my box and find they are not as useful as hoped. I ve often had them slip and score the piece. The farther out they are to grab better, the more damage they can do. Definitely not a clamp replacement IMHO.
> 
> I ll measure mine sometime today if I can remember to do so.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Agreed - conceptually they're a fine idea; in reality they don't do much.


----------



## drsurfrat

This is from the Traut's pre-Stanley box. 
threaded diameter: 0.156
OAL 0.483"

*28* tpi

go figure. I tried a (brass) 8-32 in the hole, it caught the threads (right dia.) but bound up after about 1 turn.

It is possible that later boxes went 8-32, but I doubt it with Stanley's history.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bandit, those spikes screws don't help me on the G-P and I prefer that box over the Stanley, actually. I'm happy to take the seconds to clamp the piece, because having it shift at all blows the cut and leads to rework.

If you (or anyone else) can get through without such an aide, good on you I say. But it helps me.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks for the input, fellas. You just let me know that some of my problems are "normal" problems and not all injury-related. In its own way, that is good news indeed.


----------



## bandit571

Usually, 4 fingers go over the fence…and the thumb presses the part against the fence…and, with the spike helping out a bit…nothing moves..

Have found that nice, easy, full strokes do wonders with the cut….lightly hold the saw…no "death grip" needed, let the saw do the work…the entire saw.


----------



## HokieKen

I find that with my compact 150 box and short saw I'm able to hold most boards just by hand without slipping. But with my big Langdon box with 26" saw, I prefer to clamp the work. I don't know about the screws in the Stanley fences for preventing slip but the "textured" deck on the Langdon works well.


----------



## HokieKen

> This is from the Traut s pre-Stanley box.
> threaded diameter: 0.156
> OAL 0.483"
> 
> *28* tpi
> 
> go figure. I tried a (brass) 8-32 in the hole, it caught the threads (right dia.) but bound up after about 1 turn.
> 
> It is possible that later boxes went 8-32, but I doubt it with Stanley s history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat


The peaks on those threads look kinda flat. I wonder if maybe it started life as a #10 size? Stanley used 10-28 threads in several places. 8-28 would be new to me. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if that's what it is but it would be new…


----------



## drsurfrat

I will see if a 10-28 will go.


----------



## tbuskey

I was looking for one and found an Ulmia at a used tool dealer. They still make them for 10x what I paid.


----------



## drsurfrat

No Go for the 10-28


----------



## BlasterStumps

You could tap for different threads and sharpen a machine screw for a dawg.


----------



## Notw

When i bought my 2246 miter box it came with the 4×26 saw for that box but also a spare 4×26 warranted superior saw. I need a saw for my stanley 150 box but this one feels too large, i know the box will accept any saw, but i want to use this miter box for smaller work so using a 26" saw seems a lot like taking a tank to a knife fight.

My thought was to take the 26" saw and cut it down to somewhere between 18-20". But wanted to reach out to the brain trust here to make sure this wasn't a stupid idea for reasons i don't know.

If it is not a stupid idea i was thinking about scribing a line and cutting the end off with an angle grinder and then filing it straight and smooth, unless there is a better way.


----------



## HokieKen

As long as the saw isn't valuable/collectible, I see no problem with cutting it down Notw. I think 20" is a good size for the 150 box but 18" would work fine too.

To cut it down, you'll want to remove the back and scribe your line on the plate. Then you could cut it off but I'd be more inclined to use a small cutoff wheel in a dremel tool and just scribe it a little deeper. Then clamp it in a vise with the keeper part in the jaws and the scribed line at the top of the jaws. Bend until it snaps. It should snap cleanly with a nice straight edge. No problem with cutting it off but keep it cool so you don't draw the spring temper and you'll have more cleanup work to do.


----------



## theoldfart

I have a question for the enlightened Stanley wizards.

I posted a pic earlier of a Stanley 100 Marsh style picture frame mitre box. I got everything but the saw. Fortunately, or so I thought, no problem since I have a mint Disston backsaw etched for the Stanley 100. Problem is the 100 is designed for a 4" saw. My saw is a 4 1/2" saw!

Did Stanley have multiple sizes in their lineup of 100's?

Edit: Correction my mitre saw is an E C Atkins.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I good 32T hacksaw blade will do a lot of damage to a saw plate : ). I have cut a few that way


----------



## drsurfrat

> I have a question for the enlightened Stanley wizards.
> 
> I posted a pic earlier of a Stanley 100 Marsh style picture frame mitre box. I got everything but the saw. Fortunately, or so I thought, no problem since I have a mint Disston backsaw etched for the Stanley 100. Problem is the 100 is designed for a 4" saw. My saw is a 4 1/2" saw!
> 
> Did Stanley have multiple sizes in their lineup of 100's?
> 
> - theoldfart


I'm not enlightened, but I've got a book. 
This is from John Walter's book, though it's been questioned about the No50/60 differences.










Also, No 109 = 4", No 113 = 4+3/4", No 116 = 3", No 150 = 4" (Your's is obviously not a 113)


----------



## Johnny7

*Kevin*

Far be it from me to call myself enlightened-but here's what came with a 1960s-blue Stanley 100 I got a few years back.

Be forewarned; it's not a pretty sight!


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, I guess I have a little mystery on my hands.

Now I guess a saw hunt is in order!


----------



## theoldfart

The offending saw










The offending saws etch


----------



## HokieKen

How long is that saw Kev? Might be a good mate to my 150 box if you don't have another purpose for it


----------



## theoldfart

26". I need to check how much plate is in the spine. That might explain the odd depth. The saw is basically unused.


----------



## HokieKen

Ahhhh. A tad longer than I want. I'm sure somebody can use a like-new Stanley saw though.


----------



## bandit571

I can look through my "spare" saws later today….what size are you looking for?


----------



## HokieKen

I'm good for now Bandit. I still have the C'man one you sent me when I first got the box. I just keep a passive eye open for a 20-22" vintage one, preferably Stanley branded but not necessary. The box is in service though so it's not a pressing need


----------



## Notw

Ken used your method for cutting my saw down, worked perfect. No i can grind the teeth off of the scrap i cut off and make another card scraper


----------



## Johnny7

*Kevin*
A few more morsels-taken from Stanley catalogs of the past.

*1934*










------------------------------------------

*1941* -apparently lost 4" in length










------------------------------------------

Finally we have my example above from the '60s, at 24" x 4"-gained 2" back?

My guess is that each of these reductions represent cost-cutting measures, implemented by Stanley after the Marsh acquisition.

The increase to 24" from 22" is harder to explain. Perhaps they had gone too far in reducing the length to 22" and added length back?

Another possiblity is inconsistency over time in the way they measured clipped-heel miter saws. (mine, for example, measures 22" along the toothline)

btw- that saw of yours is a beaut!


----------



## KentInOttawa

I'm sneaking up on completing my Stanley 358 mitre box. Thanks to LJs GarethinMontreal, OldFart and POA (RIP), and a recent trip to the local big box store that yielded a pair of 5/16" rods, I'm almost there. Still, there are some parts left to go that I'm unclear about. They're shown here in this picture from a recent FB post about a 460 box.










On the right-hand end of the rods for the length stop (tree), there appears to be a piece that looks like a coupler of sorts. Can I get someone to post some pictures and a description to clarify it's purpose and use?


----------



## bandit571

Used to connect two rods to make a LONGER rod if needed….I have a spare coupler..I think…but it is missing the 2 bolts…I can check it out..once I get "mobile" again…..knee problems…


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks Bandit. Since I haven't used the length stop yet, I doubt that I'll require even longer rods for a bit, if ever. It's just that I kept seeing the coupler in eBay listings and the like and I wanted to know what I was missing.


----------



## bandit571

Mine is a spare..because I have never needed to use it….nor the non-existent tree…no room.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I recently got the tree and the rods, but the set-up needs some refinement.


----------



## HokieKen

There is a pretty decent deal on a #15-1/2 box on Leech's list this month. Unfortunately, due to a barrage of unexpected expenses recently, I'm on a spending moratorium at the moment or I would snatch it. Actually… I'd TRY to snatch it. Chances are that as I write this, it's already gone…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I finally have a place to put a few of my boxes so they are in one location. I'm going to take the bigger shelf apart and redo the spacing on the shelves so I can add two more shelves to it. Might need to double up the boxes on a couple three lower shelves. But so far so good.










Not a collector but…


----------



## KentInOttawa

That looks like a great solution, Mike.


----------



## theoldfart

Yep, it's a collection all right!
Nice one too.


----------



## Notw

that looks great, I recently hung my 150 and 2246 on the wall


----------



## theoldfart

This is one of Jon Halls boxes. An early Goodell Manufacturing 5" All Steel. It's headed to a fellow LJer.



















It has been through a lot of benign neglect. The up side is all the grease, glue and saw dust prevented significant rust.

Did I say dirty?










Those of you who have All Steel are familiar with the hollow posts, right?










It took a full day of cleaning but everything moves as it should.


----------



## controlfreak

I need to get around to restoring my two GP boxes. I know I have asked before but does anybody know if there was a original paint color to the all steel boxes? So hard to find out when all I have is B&W photos or sketches from catalogs. I would love to make them look as they did from the factory. I am still going to use them though. I think I enjoy old tools more in use than to look at but hey, I can do both.

Hey OldFart, what color were they when you bought them new?


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, let me go back and look at my notes!


----------



## BlasterStumps

CF, mine was/is red table tops and the rest black. Not real good paint either. The red paint takes a little imagination to say it is red.
This picture taken by the seller:


----------



## theoldfart

Early All Steels seem to have had a green finish. Look closely at the one I posted above. Also the Langdon site has a 1306 from the same period, early 1920's, with what seems to be a green finish. Later boxes were Black with red trim.


----------



## drsurfrat

> ...
> It took a full day of cleaning but everything moves as it should.
> - theoldfart


... so that you can give it to someone else. You are a generous, selfless man. I am glad to know you.


----------



## theoldfart

Well, there is a "modest fee" involved. But the goal has been to get these boxes into users hands so that's what I'm doing.

Then when you got 'em hooked …….. hehe


----------



## drsurfrat

hey, look what I got for $5.



















It has an '02 patent casting on the back, and not much rust at all. The wood is so weathered, I don't think it can save it. The two back pieces just lift out of the dowel holes.


----------



## controlfreak

> Early All Steels seem to have had a green finish. Look closely at the one I posted above. Also the Langdon site has a 1306 from the same period, early 1920's, with what seems to be a green finish. Later boxes were Black with red trim.
> 
> - theoldfart


Mine doesn't have a label plate and therefore must have had a decal I am guessing. Square guide blocks not V channel. Not sure if that can narrow down the the date but I don't see any red so I think I will do a green to dress it up. I can remember someone posting one that was green and I thought it looked good but it's hard to search for a color in a picture.


----------



## theoldfart

The green is similar to military green. Flat bottom guide are indicative of early models, they went to the V style in the mid twenties I think.

On the Perfection, maybe plough a groove where the saw cut the deck and glue in a hardwood strip.


----------



## drsurfrat

Kevin, it's cupped in both directions, and some piece are split at the glue joints.

The label says it is supposed to come apart for packing up, so I guess the dowels are on purpose. Not very good at keeping square, tho.


----------



## drsurfrat

Here's another one I got today with a bunch of other rust gems for $10. Between the red and gray, might it be made by Millers Falls? It's quite heavy, cast not stamped.


----------



## controlfreak

Nice snag there, bravo!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a Craftsman branded box that looks quite similar. The tag on it says it is a model 3650. It is actually one of the best mitre boxes I have. I have a MF 73C I believe that also looks similar but I don't like it as well as the Craftsman version.


----------



## HokieKen

Definitely a MF made box Mike. Nice score. Looks to have the length stop bits too


----------



## theoldfart

Mitre was a bit off, less than a 16'th"










Slow going but it worked

















Less than the width of the kerf.


----------



## bandit571

Warran & Ted made Mitre Boxes?









Price tag says $2…got it for $1…handle could stand a little re-shaping..









They claim it is a "Superior" saw….Might clean the saw up….and toss the box?


----------



## controlfreak

I was cutting some poplar just to make a box for my carving chisels as a skill builder. I was cross cutting and looked up at my miter box and thought, I might as well. Well, that thing made me work up such a sweat fitting it that it became faster to use a regular hand saw and true up on the shooting board. It just binds and sticks so bad its not worth the trouble. I was very disappointed but maybe the box should be reserved for thin moldings.


----------



## theoldfart

Is that the box I sent you?


----------



## HokieKen

You have a saw problem CF. A miter saw has to be tuned properly or binding is the result. I've been on both ends and I feel your pain!


----------



## bandit571

CF…appears your saw has lost it's set….run your fingers along the sides of the teeth….should NOT be smooth. Someone had stoned away the teeth's tips? For now, try rubbing the tooth line with a candle, see if that helps.

IF not, send the saw out to be re-set..and maybe a touch-up on the teeth.


----------



## controlfreak

> Is that the box I sent you?
> 
> - theoldfart


You sent me a part to make the adjuster arm complete but not a complete box Kevin.


----------



## controlfreak

> CF…appears your saw has lost it s set….run your fingers along the sides of the teeth….should NOT be smooth. Someone had stoned away the teeth s tips? For now, try rubbing the tooth line with a candle, see if that helps.
> 
> IF not, send the saw out to be re-set..and maybe a touch-up on the teeth.
> 
> - bandit571


Too funny, it was your saw. I will do some checking on the saw set. I already have a set, does anyone know what the set should be? Not sure id the increments on the saw sets are universal or unique to each. Still waiting on a Veritas saw file holder so I can tune up all of my saws.


----------



## HokieKen

Minimal set. I just measured mine and it's about .004" total.


----------



## theoldfart

Whew, thought something bad got by me.

Lack of enough set will bind in the cut the deeper you go.


----------



## controlfreak

> Whew, thought something bad got by me.
> 
> Lack of enough set will bind in the cut the deeper you go.
> 
> - theoldfart


Haha, for a minute I was like holy crap I never paid you. I really am looking to get serious about hand sawing more than I have and sharpening and setting is going to need to be a part of that process. Seems like my saw set if I remember it correctly has letters for the amount of set like A B C etc.


----------



## HokieKen

I find it much easier to over-set the teeth and then reduce it CF. It's hard to get a consistent set along the full length. Here is one method demonstrated by Mike Wenzloff. The method I use is to put a piece of blue masking tape on the saw plate next to the teeth than run a diamond plate down the full length so it rests on the tape and stones the edges of the teeth. This leaves a set that is consistently the thickness of the tape. The method in the video is probably better since it actually bends the teeth rather than abrading the edges down.


----------



## Notw

Does anyone know if there is anywhere available to get the trip lever that attaches to the back saw on a Stanley Mitre Box? A buddy on another forum asked the question so I figured i would ask the brain trust here


----------



## HokieKen

Good luck with that one Notw. Probably the most sought-after part Stanley ever made ;-)


----------



## Notw

I figured it was a long shot but never hurts to ask


----------



## drsurfrat

It's a relatively simple shape, right? if he just wants it functional, you/he could probably make one out of brass or aluminum. Don't know that I've ever seen a detailed close up photo though…


----------



## drsurfrat

I have a couple things to share. I am making progress on the MF/Sears Roebuck box. I have the base repainted and still have to clean up the deck plates:










I got a giant saw (28×5") Disston to go with it since the guides won't clear anything less than 5".

I also got a plain 25" E C Atkins backsaw, but as I was fondling it, I thought I saw an etching. It turns out that one angle (and only one) there is a Stanely SweetHart etching. So far googling hasn't come up with anything relating Hart era Stanley to Atkins. The text reads:

[ STANLEY ]
(SW)
MADE IN U.S.A.
STANLEY MITRE BOX SAW
MADE EXCLUSIVELY FOR
STANLEY RULE AND LEVEL PLANT
NEW BRITAIN CONN U.S.A.
xxxxxxxxxx & CO










If you have any info about it, I would love to read it.

Yes, after all this I still have not cut a single piece of wood on any of the 3 miter boxes I now have.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> It s a relatively simple shape, right? if he just wants it functional, you/he could probably make one out of brass or aluminum. Don t know that I ve ever seen a detailed close up photo though…
> 
> - drsurfrat


I saw one in a photo of a 45 lot that someone had posted and recognized it immediately. After some discussion, the owner of that lot agreed to sell it to me. Here's a close-up of this simple device installed on my saw.










It is a simple device and a functional alternative should be relatively easy to fabricate with hand tools from aluminum, brass, bronze or even a good hard wood. PLMK if you need dimensions or better photos.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's one that I have shared pictures of before. I fashioned it out of a piece of brass. Works great:


----------



## controlfreak

Went out to the shop to set the teeth on the miter box back saw and darned if the set I bought years ago has a striped bolt. I would get everything setup and after a few teeth it would lose it. It is the one that lock & holds all of the settings (Craftsman) so its off to ebay to get another.


----------



## bandit571

There was a fellow on another site, that stated he could set saw teeth by just a twist of a screwdriver blade between 2 teeth…..Hmmm…


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…remember this Rusty & Krusty item?









That I bought for $1, merely for the backsaw?
Well, take a look at this…..









No. 1816 Millers Falls mitre box….can be adjusted for depth of cut…









Just tighten that bolt. Will look into this a bit further….as to angle settings…..may have to keep this box around a while….hmmm


----------



## controlfreak

> There was a fellow on another site, that stated he could set saw teeth by just a twist of a screwdriver blade between 2 teeth…..Hmmm…
> 
> - bandit571


I have also seen some that use a gapped slot to fit over the tooth and lever it I suppose. Saw another with a crack handle too.


----------



## Notw

Awesome work around Blaster, I sent you pictures to him. Thank you


----------



## HokieKen

Whenever I see those Stanley release things, I always wonder if there's something like this that's available off-the-shelf that could easily be modified to work?


----------



## drsurfrat

Forgive my ignorance, but is the purpose of that thing to release the saw guides (after setting your wood up in the box)? - Lock the saw in up top, get everything set up, push the saw forward, 'click', and start cutting?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Forgive my ignorance, but is the purpose of that thing to release the saw guides (after setting your wood up in the box)? - Lock the saw in up top, get everything set up, push the saw forward, click , and start cutting?
> 
> - drsurfrat


Pretty much. The trip lever releases the lock at the handle end. Lowering the handle after it has been released allows the toe of the saw to trip the rear lock. On mine, the front trip release lever has a LOT of lateral play, so it doesn't always work as well as I would like, but it is still better than using my hand to trip the lever.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, how many leave the saw "up"...and how many leave the saw "down"?


----------



## theoldfart

Up, if the box is made for it, otherwise like a Langdon.


----------



## HokieKen

On my Langdon box, I leave the saw up when in use but don't store it that way. The little pins that keep the guides up are pretty sensitive so even bumping the bench when it's sitting on top can cause the saw to fall. I probably need to just work on the little doohickies to increase their holding capacity.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> On my Langdon box… the little pins that keep the guides up are pretty sensitive so even bumping the bench when it s sitting on top can cause the saw to fall.
> 
> - HokieKen


My older Goodell behaves this way.


----------



## HokieKen

It should be fairly simple to file the tops of the spring pins to correct the issue Smitty. My fear is over-correcting and it being too hard to release. I aimed to have it so I could whack the spine of the saw with one hand and release both guides. I'd rather not have to actually pull both of them to release while trying to hold the saw with the other hand to prevent it slamming down.

I don't recall how those parts looked exactly now. Maybe I'll just make some new pins that I can file on without fear of compromising the originals…


----------



## theoldfart

I take the lift stops off, disassemble and clean, then reinstall. The six inch box stays up until I tap the saw. Same holds true with the five inch I'm using at the railroad. I got ticked at having it come crashing down on me or the work.


----------



## HokieKen

I did that when I first got the box Kev but its always had this tendency. It looks like maybe stretching the springs a hair might improve the situation. I just scored a pair of depth stops off Ebay so when they get here, I'll play around with those springs some when I install those.


----------



## drsurfrat

Before and After: Sears Roebuck & Co. No. 107 *3650*0 (made by Millers Falls) The legs and length stops are stamped, but everything else is solid, machined cast iron.



















I just realized that I paid more for the paint than the miter box. Even the saw only cost me $15. I am blessedly fortunate. My first cut is still gonna be on that Traut's beauty that Kevin gave me…


----------



## HokieKen

Nice work Mike! I have to admit, I'm not fond of the industrial gray that Millers Falls used on a lot of their tools in the latter half of the century. But combined with the red, it sure does make them recognizable!


----------



## HokieKen

Curious about how your box is for holding the saw elevated Mike? Does the saw fall prematurely? Is it hard to release?


----------



## drsurfrat

It will stay up even to bumps if I wiggle the pins, but they are still a bit gooey, so I should clean them like Kevin said.


----------



## HokieKen

I figured out yesterday that the spring pin on my front guide holds a lot tighter but the back one releases too easily. But, once the back one lets the saw fall, the mass/momentum causes the front one to let loose too. I'll have to do some 'sperimenting and figure out how to walk the line between holding too well and not well enough.


----------



## bandit571

Needed to get that Millers Falls mitre box OFF the Dinning Room table…didn't really need, nor want that 2×8 under it, either…one slight problem…well..2 actually…









Seems that instead of the usual screws to hold the box down…









They used 2 roofing nails….maybe they were cutting trim for a house? Anyway, how to pull them out..









Claw hammer was just too big in all the wrong places….to grab and pull…so…we have ways…









Didn't feel up to waddling down to the shop and back….have these Carpenter's pincers…should do the trick…









Nothing to it. had no idea how long the nails were, until I pulled them out…cute little buggers' ain't they?

Freed from the plank, I could take a look "under the hood"...










wing thingy appears to tighten up the angle settings….will have to see why things still wobble a bit…and evict a spider or two. Appear the legs were welded to the fence….no holes in the back legs for any screws?

Will dismantle the angle thingy tomorrow, and see IF a little TLC will help out. Hey, it even isn't 60 years old, yet…


----------



## HokieKen

Bandit your shop must have underground bunkers and a labyrinth of tunnels. Somehow you seem to get 2 or 3 new tools per day and never run out of room for em! ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

The walls are really dividers made by stacking plane together.


----------



## Lazyman

Apparently, Bandit also keeps tools in his dining room, Kenny.


----------



## drsurfrat

New find: Millers Falls 74C miter box. It appears to have every part present, including the little fitted washers for the depth stops. Covered in pine sawdust, it seems it was used on one job and stashed away. The 26" saw also has the Milers Falls etch, and it seems to be a later version (post 1955) like the one I repainted and posted earlier. It weighs 25 lbs without the saw. It needs to be used…


----------



## controlfreak

Nice find there Mike!


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody seen a Langdon with a fence like this?









It's listed as a 1306C on Ebay. I've seen the typical fence with milled flats like Mike's box a couple posts up and I've seen some later models with the tread plate type surface. But this one is a new one to me. Just wondering if it's original or if it was replaced somewhere along the way…


----------



## DLK

Kenny, seems strange. There is a MF all steel 1285C on WorthPoint with the same fence


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Don. I guess they were made like that at some point for some period then. That was just the first one I'd seen and was curious whether it was original or not.


----------



## HokieKen

Does anybody know if the depth stops off a size 2 Langdon box will work on a size 2-1/2? I would assume they are the same design just an inch shorter? Just wonder if they're the same width and have the same slot size?


----------



## bandit571

Reshaped the tote on a saw….seems to look a little better…from this..









To this..









Not perfect, looks a little better…









To….









Then into the Mitre Box..to see how it fits…









Saw is a WS 4" x 16".....haven't counted the teeth yet….
Picked the Mitre Box…asking price was..









WITH this saw….managed to get them for $1 total…Model Number?
Hide yer eyes, Kenny!









Thinking replacing the old wooden deck with a new one….do a tear down, and rehab? Then, IF I can see them teeth well enough, I might just try to sharpen them up a bit…

Was getting bored just sitting here…


----------



## bandit571

Needs a new deck?









So…how do I cut that recess?









Screwdriver is from Irwin….had a lot of parts to separate..









Legs are separate from the fence, BTW..









May start a blog on THIS rehab..maybe?

have a nice looking 1×6 of Ash…might work ( and look) better than Pine 1×6…?


----------



## Notw

Is the recess round or oval?


----------



## bandit571

Round..


----------



## Notw

i would find another board with a similar height clamp it along the edge of the board you want to use and then drill the hole with a forstner bit. Clamping a sacrificial board helps keep the good board from "walking" while you drill


----------



## HokieKen

I'd probaby cut that recess with a gouge and router plane bandit. Gouge to establish the wall and then clean it out with router plane to depth.

You made that tote look about 700% better! And no worries, that logo from the post-Ingersoll-Rand acquisition doesn't tempt me ;-)


----------



## bandit571

1-7/8" Forstner bit seems to be about the correct size…..

Rusty parts no longer have any rust….some of the now bare metal got a spritz of black paint….while trying NOT to get any on the logo.

Cleaned one part off….found a "Made in USA" AND a degree scale….

On Laundry Detail this evening…might get a few pictures the next trip to the basement…


----------



## TxSurveyor

Just got my first one at a garage sale. $25. Did I get a good deal? Stanley model 60. Cast iron. Guessing these are pretty common, but seems super solid.


----------



## bandit571

Saw is in bass-ackwards….install with the handle sticking out towards the camera.

Almost done with this little box..









Has a brand new deck…..needed a fancy screwdriver to drive them screws home…









Made by Goodell Pratt Company, Greenfield MA, USA

Drill a couple pilot holes…









Then wax the threads a bit….


----------



## drsurfrat

> Just got my first one at a garage sale. $25. Did I get a good deal? Stanley model 60. Cast iron. Guessing these are pretty common, but seems super solid.
> [pic]
> - TxSurveyor


That is a great deal with a saw. Give us sone close-ups and Kevin may be able to tell you more about it, or what might be missing.


----------



## TxSurveyor

Thanks Bandit. Will do Mike.


----------



## TxSurveyor

> Just got my first one at a garage sale. $25. Did I get a good deal? Stanley model 60. Cast iron. Guessing these are pretty common, but seems super solid.
> [pic]
> - TxSurveyor
> 
> That is a great deal with a saw. Give us sone close-ups and Kevin may be able to tell you more about it, or what might be missing.
> 
> - drsurfrat


Alright, here are the pictures. A few mis-matched screws, but seems like everything is there???

*Image 1*









*Image 2*









*Image 3*









*Image 4*









*Image 5*









*Image 6*









*Image 7*









*Image 8*


----------



## drsurfrat

That looks like a solid user. Definitely don't try to use it with the saw pointed that way 

The blue paint probably means the 60s-70's. Pressed metal feet, but a nice cast iron frame. the pivoting hooks at the top of the guide rods must be hooks for holding the saw up. Someone who knows what they are talking about should chime in.

The "Warranted Superior" on the saw is so generic that it doesn't tell you much, most makers had their lower value saws marked that way. Then again, most makers were Disston. The little ring of dots does imply Disston. Is there a stamp on the backstrap, or etching on the plate of the saw?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Will, I'm not real sure but, it looks like the lever for the swing arm may have been owner modified.

I'd say that was an OK deal on it.


----------



## TxSurveyor

> That looks like a solid user. Definitely don t try to use it with the saw pointed that way


I won't lol


> The "Warranted Superior" on the saw is so generic that it doesn t tell you much, most makers had their lower value saws marked that way. Then again, most makers were Disston. The little ring of dots does imply Disston. Is there a stamp on the backstrap, or etching on the plate of the saw?
> - drsurfrat


I will have to check when I get home. I looked for about 10 seconds in a dimly lit garage for an etching but didn't see any. Has all the teeth, so that's a plus.


----------



## TxSurveyor

> Will, I m not real sure but, it looks like the lever for the swing arm may have been owner modified.
> - BlasterStumps


Yeah it looks like a paint can opener handle. I thought that looked funny myself.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Will, I m not real sure but, it looks like the lever for the swing arm may have been owner modified.
> 
> I d say that was an OK deal on it.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Now that you mention it, that handle looks like an old paint can opener with the built-in bottle opener in the handle. That's a bonus multi-tool.


----------



## DanKrager

Kent, I bought that model new off the shelf in 1975 and it still cuts nicely if you can find something that will hold it down. My saw is "warranted Superior" and that's the only ID marks I've ever found. The questionable handle is definitely a mod, at least compared to mine. Mine is a stamped flat metal "plate" with a circular end outboard. It would be easy to duplicate, and much easier than finding a replacement in the wild.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Got the old Wentworth No. 1 down off the shelf, cleaned him up a bit…and got him ready for work..









Had to add a handle to a file…to save me hands…









got things finished up, and took the saw for a test drive..









There are 2 kerfs there…one "before" the file work…and the other (with the saw still in it) was after the refresh…same number of saw strokes, BTW….guess I can call this rehab…done?


----------



## controlfreak

Well I finally did it. I had been waiting on my Veritas saw file guide, for ever. I also got who dooed on ebay and had gotten a craftsman saw set tool that has a stripped adjustment screw. File guide in hand and a Millers Falls set I took a back saw and set jointed and filed it. Took it for a test drive and no more binding. It may be time to rehab the saw and miter box to make them purdy.


----------



## HokieKen

Awesome CF. Getting that first one to cut right is a big confidence booster


----------



## theoldfart

CF, you got this!


----------



## theoldfart

These pics are to augment the conversations in the secret santa swap.










This is where my accumulation stands right now.

The lineup in front is mostly Red Devil and EC Stearns. Oh, and one Canadian! And they are for sale!

The back line has two Langdons and one unique patented one and they are my users.


----------



## bandit571

Do you still have the GEM Mitre Box?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes


----------



## HokieKen

That's quite the lineup there Kev. I'm particularly fond of the one in the center of your users


----------



## theoldfart

I am as well!


----------



## Johnny7

*Public Service Announcement*

Who knows where the wheel of fate will stop on this auction-but here is a seldom-offered, hard-to-find part for the mitre box enthusiast who insists on completeness.

#304275407337


----------



## CL810

How much have they gone for in the past?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> How much have they gone for in the past?
> 
> - CL810


Usually above US$50. There's one listed now at double that BIN. Still, for me, the $50 shipping makes this one a bit excessive even at the great current bid of $7. Fortunately, a fellow LJ came through a while back for me at a much more reasonable price.









Edit: already up to US$25


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, the apparent Holy Grail!


----------



## CL810

Somebody wanted it badly - $52.50.


----------



## theoldfart

MJD sells them for $100+ on the Bay!


----------



## HokieKen

I don't see how MJD keeps afloat. The prices are just too high. I understand that sometimes if you need a part bad enough you just have to close your eyes and take your medicine. But in most cases, there are alternatives that with just a modicum of patience one can land for half or less of the MJD price. But good on em, they're obviously moving inventory and they're providing some really hard to find parts.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I don't blame someone from wanting an original Stanley saw trip but, an all aluminum trip can be fashioned fairly easily that will do the same job. I made a couple out of some scrap aluminum bar and actually prefer them to the Stanley on a couple saws. I think I said that once before so I guess I am repeating myself.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah fabricating those trips would be a simple job. I imagine most who seek them out just want an original/complete box.


----------



## CL810

I only want one to stop the voices in my head from shouting "Get it, you know you really need it!!


----------



## HokieKen

There's a pretty nice Langdon 15 1/2 box on Leech's list this month. Looks complete and has a saw with a broken handle with it. $385 is a pretty fair price. Unfortunately that just ain't in my tool budget at the moment…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ What he said.


----------



## bandit571

Road Trip, today….









Hmmm..saw looked good…but…









$75+Tax will get you a COMPLETE (with tree!) Stanley No. 2358, with saw…

Heart of Ohio Antique Center, Harmony, OH. Was a bit more than I had to spend…..


----------



## BlasterStumps

I might have found a saw that will work with my Stanley 246 box. It has a 23" tooth line, overall length of blade is 26". With 4" under the spine. Has all the compulsory rust spots and everything. I might clean it up and see what it is like. Cuts really nice just how it is, rust and all. I actually was thinking when I first looked at it that the saw nuts would be worth the $2. Disston Porter made for Stanley in the '60s or '70s possibly. It's all your fault Bandit. All those antique tools you been showing. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got the saw for my 246 box cleaned up some. A little pitting in a spot or two but not bad. Might touch up the teeth in a couple spots but seems quite sharp as is.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think I might have this 246 box all together now. Three years or so of scrounging at the local shops, yard sales, etc., for all the parts and pieces finally finished with getting a Stanley (made by Disston) saw of the correct size.

I fabricated the moulding stops and, the threaded insert in the top to use with a moulding stop as a length stop.

I still want to touch up the teeth on the saw but it is doing pretty good as is.

I think it might be one of my favorites now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, congrats!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Smitty. I have some of that blue layout fluid coming in a few days. I will put that on the teeth of that saw so that I can see where I am at while sharpening and then I will attempt to touch up the saw. My eyesight is not good for up close so I need all the help I can get.


----------



## rad457

My 1st. cordless Mitre saw, any ideas as too the age?


----------



## drsurfrat

That heart logo is from 1919 to 1928 according to Smith/Walter


----------



## theoldfart

Looks to be in good shape Andre. Congrats! Now go buy another, it's required.


----------



## JethroBodean

The 50 1/2 model was the box only, sold without the saw. But damn for a sweetheart era box , that is one pretty item.

The 60 1/2 was the same box but sold with a 20×40 saw.

This is one of the boxes that Stanley bragged that could be used with a back saw or a panel saw.


----------



## drsurfrat

> Looks to be in good shape Andre. Congrats! Now go buy another, it's required.
> - theoldfart


Yep


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Andre! Welcome to yet another slippery slope ;-) I don't remember ever seeing Shurley and Ditrich before. Is that common in Canada? Is that the maker or is that a retailer that someone else made saws for?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Nice Andre! Welcome to yet another slippery slope ;-) I don t remember ever seeing Shurley and Ditrich before. Is that common in Canada? Is that the maker or is that a retailer that someone else made saws for?
> 
> - HokieKen


Nothing is really common in Canada; we're a small country population-wise.

I have a Shurley-Dietrich 5×28" 11 PPI saw on my Stanley 358. The faint etch on my saw states that it is a mitre saw made expressly for Stanley. I've also seen one post by a guy in Nova Scotia with an identical saw to mine with his 358. FWIW, my 358 frame was made in the USA and is probably earlier than Andre's 50 1/2, while my saw is probably newer than his. The patents on the medallion of Andre's saw make it older.










Here's a link to some info and history on Shurley-Dietrich.


----------



## Notw

I think this forum needs another place for pictures, we have a great library for all of our projects made from wood but we don't have anywhere to post our projects of old tools. Would be nice to have a place to go back and look through just pictures of restored tools or antique tools without having to go page by page through the thread.

Any thoughts on this matter?


----------



## Lazyman

It isn't going to be well cataloged or complete but a site search of images will at least bring up something to browse.

Here is "one searching miter box of your dreams" images.


----------



## HokieKen

The Before and After thread is about as good as we have for a repository of overhauled tools. And it's by no means complete. Not sure this site is every going to be a good repository for such.


----------



## bandit571

After I am done with the current project….my Stanley 358 will need a bit of TLC…...too much wiggle going on…King Bolt might have gotten loose?....need to flip the mitre box onto it's back…and see what is going on…


----------



## rad457

Really didn't even look at the saw until I took it to the shop, 4" x 21" 10 tpi I believe, sharp but cutting a little coarse. Tightened a few screws and did a few test cuts it just felt good! Do believe the power mitre saw is leaving the shop
Paid $60 CAN. thought was a decent price? Haven't seen any for sale most place I go to, the guy that I picked up a Stand and belt guard for an old 6" delta jointer had it in a box by the door, guess he felt guilty after what he charged for the belt guard!


----------



## HokieKen

Sunuvabiscuit. Auction ended at 1am last night. So I was laying there watching TV thinking "I'm not gonna stay awake, I'll set an alarm." I was still thinking that when I fell asleep. And it sold dang near my budget. Close enough I would have stretched. Of course the winning bidder may have stretched further. C'est la vie.









Even still had most of the label on the fence:









And the decal on the saw handle:


----------



## Mosquito

Damn, that's a good deal with the saw and labels

Should have let me know, I was up that late lol


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Damn…


----------



## BlasterStumps

someone was rough on that saw. Wonder what it hit to break both side like that.


----------



## controlfreak

I think they were trying to drive through the front post on the push stroke.


----------



## HokieKen

I imagine the condition of the saw and the missing depth stops are the only reasons the box sold as cheaply as it did. Even with the labels, it was definitely a user-grade box instead of a collector. Which is exactly what I want…


----------



## controlfreak

> I imagine the condition of the saw and the missing depth stops are the only reasons the box sold as cheaply as it did. Even with the labels, it was definitely a user-grade box instead of a collector. Which is exactly what I want…
> 
> - HokieKen


I have two GP Boxes if you are interested in one Kenny.


----------



## theoldfart

The missing guides on a 16 1/2 are not a big deal unlike the 15 1/2.
I did not see this on my eBay mitre box search. Damn!


----------



## Notw

I'll set an alarm for an auction, sounds like the equivalent to "I'll get gas in the morning" But I did the same thing last week, meant to set an alarm and didn't so i put my bid in high, letting eBay bid it up and ended up losing by $2.50


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks CF but I have a couple of boxes already. I just specifically want either a 15-1/2 or 16-1/2 Langdon box because I'm not a collector ;-)


----------



## controlfreak

> Thanks CF but I have a couple of boxes already. I just specifically want either a 15-1/2 or 16-1/2 Langdon box because I m not a collector ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


Hah, "My name is Kenny and I am a collector" Crowd replies " Hi Kenny"


----------



## theoldfart

Down with collectors and up with users!
'Crept for me of course.


----------



## controlfreak

Mine sits on a high but reachable shelf but I often find that I just cut to a line for rough work and laydown a knife wall for a more accurate cut. I should break it out more often.


----------



## Mosquito

I was looking yesterday, and somehow I've ended up with 5 large miter boxes and my 15-1/2… I don't feel like I need that many…

Also, why can't one be a "User Collector"?  I might collect things, but I use them… some lol


----------



## HokieKen

Absolutely not Mos'. And I have a suggestion about which one you should get rid of first ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, my last count is 25+ so don't feel bad. I have two at the railroad and three in the home shop rotation.


----------



## Mosquito

oh I don't feel bad, I just don't know if I want to have them taking up the space lol Currently there's only 2 in the shop (not counting the pair of sterns guides). A Goodell Pratt on a tool stand and the 15-1/2 (which is still sans saw and depth stops). I use the Goodell Pratt, but haven't used either of my Stanley's, the Lakeside, or the Keen Kutter since I got it.

Kenny gets first right of refusal on my 15-1/2 if/when I get rid of it


----------



## HokieKen

Damn right he does


----------



## DavePolaschek

I have to say I'm pretty happy I got a mitre box. Knocked out two little trays for my box of "rusty tool restoration tools" on Monday, and was cutting miters on 1/4 and 3/8 thick stock that was 1.5 wide. They all went together great, and after getting the junk cleaned off the bench and then getting the stop set up correctly, they took me just a few minutes for all the cuts. Took longer to clear the bench than to do the work.

One of these days I'll actually remember what kind of a box it is, other than "a user." And with two saws for it, one can be up in MT getting sharpened while I'm using the other.


----------



## CL810

Fixed it.



> Absolutely not Mos'. And I have a suggestion about which one you should gift first ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just noticed someone is casting replica saw trips. Selling them on an online marketplace for about $26 plus shipping.


----------



## HokieKen

> Just noticed someone is casting replica saw trips. Selling them on an online marketplace for about $26 plus shipping.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Smart fella. If I was setup to do casting, I would have done the same.


----------



## CL810

BlasterStumps, can you post a link. With my poor kung fu google skills I could not find it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It's on esty. type in trip clamp. You can make them out of aluminum bar. Works just as good and the height of the post is adjustable that way. Not all saws are created equal. : )


----------



## Notw

For those with weak Google-Fu, here is the Etsy link


----------



## Mosquito

If that's the one being referenced, that's 3D printed not cast. The trip itself is PETG, if that matters to anyone. Reading the description, he doesn't hide this fact, and explains some of the compromises with it being such, which is respectable


----------



## BlasterStumps

sorry, didn't spend the time to read the description thru. : (. mon mauvais


> If that s the one being referenced, that s 3D printed not cast. The trip itself is PETG, if that matters to anyone. Reading the description, he doesn t hide this fact, and explains some of the compromises with it being such, which is respectable
> 
> - Mosquito


----------



## Ark68SS

Disclaimer-I haven't read all the posts in this thread, sorry if this has been answered before.
I came across this Millers Falls miter box the other day. The decal is pretty messed up and it's black, not red like all the others I've seen on the 'net. It also has a stamp on the pivoting lever 0 1 0 6 2. Was wondering if y'all may know the date this was built. It has a Disston saw with it, but I forgot to measure it before I came home. The bed is 4 1/2" wide x 19 3/4" long. Pics below, thanks.
BillL


----------



## HokieKen

I believe that Millers Falls started using the stickers on the front upright in the 50's Bill. So sometime in the 50s or 60s is my best WAG. I know they were using that style of length stops earlier but the "labels" were still stamped metal and riveted on in the 40s.


----------



## theoldfart

It's a late model All Steel.

Edit: I got it wrong. It's a Langdon Acme. By the mid 50's the All Steels and Acmes were looking similar.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm hoping some of you might be able to tell me the manufacturer of a mitre box I saw once here not too long ago on Ebay and if I remember correctly someone posted a picture of it on this forum. It was a full size mitre box but the table was a piece of long wood that could have even been a piece of 2×4. It has a swing arm and elevators and the fence was narrow compared to the rest of the box. I can't remember exactly but I think the manufacturer was some letters like PBWP union or something like that. If anyone knows that brand would you mind letting me know. I think it was on Ebay for a long time. Quite different than MF or Stanley in design. Kind of strange looking, the frame was more open and looked almost like it was intended to be used on a 2×4. Real elaborate trip mechanism to release and move the swing arm.


----------



## Johnny7

I don't know what you're referring to, but whatever it is, I'm guessing Kevin (theoldfart) has one.

Hopefully, he'll chime in.


----------



## JethroBodean

It's hard to know for sure, but are you perhaps talking about a Nicholls Mitre Box? I posted about one awhile back. https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/5260065


----------



## theoldfart

Nope, but I think Jeff is the proud owner of a good candidate.


----------



## BlasterStumps

That is surely the one I was thinking I saw on here. Thanks for the response Jeff. I'm not sure the release handle set up is exactly the same on the one I saw the other day. I might go back to that shop and take a closer look. thanks again, Mike


----------



## JethroBodean

The Release is interesting in that it also lifts the saw guides about an inch and thus releases the saw from the kerf. This allows you to change the angle quite easily.


----------



## theoldfart

Early Langdons were like that provided the set screws inside the post holders weren't broken off.


----------



## HokieKen

If anyone has a Langdon box missing parts, these guides and depth stops are far cheaper than they normally pop up for.

*Edit:* Nevermind, they're already gone…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I finally had a chance to go back to the shop with the weird mitre box. Here is a couple pictures of it. The board that is used as a table had a lip on the front that is partially broken away. The fence extenders which are just round rods about 6" long are missing along with the legs, so I will look into making a couple of both. Might even be able to come up with a clamp that goes with them. The rest of the box, although rusty, should clean up okay. The other day when I was in that shop and asked about the price, the guy called his sister on the phone and came back with a price of $25. Today I bought it for $20 along with a small tap and die set from Greenfield Mass. I'll have to check it out. I quickly saw that it has a 10-24, 10-28, and 10-32 set in it among some other sizes. Thanks again to JethroBodean for the info he provided on the mitre box. This one does not appear to have the Nicholls marking. It does have a stamp in the quadrant scale that says PBP&BW something. I will have to spend more time looking into that.


----------



## HokieKen

You forgot the pics Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

sorry, pics added : )


----------



## theoldfart

Nice box Mike. Should be a fun project.


----------



## JethroBodean

That is definitely a Nicholls box, lack of markings aside. Is there a brass plate with the degrees marked for the quadrant? It looks like it is missing in the picture.

Last summer I picked a 2nd Nicholls that was in horrible shape. They wanted $30 and I was all set to turn them down. But then he pulled out an older large Disston Mitre saw (i don't remember the size). Figuring the saw was worth the $30, I paid up and took them both home.

My point is that I just might have a brass plate on that parts box. I'll try to look tonight if you're interested.


----------



## BlasterStumps

yes, it does have a brass plate. Thank you though Jeff.


----------



## JethroBodean

Blaster - While I think you'll do just fine with "round rods about 6" long" for a back fence. I do not actually believe that is what those round sockets are for. Granted I am only guessing, as I am sure you have found out, there is very little detailed information on these boxes out on the net.

Here are a couple of pictures I stole from an eBay auction that shows a clamp that I believe is really what went into those round sockets.

BTW: They seem to have sold the Nicholls box under the 'True' name at some point.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for sharing the info on those boxes Jeff. I haven't done anything with the box I brought home the other day. I am looking around for some strap to make legs from. I believe you are right, looks like a clamp would be in those holes. They sit back of the plane of the fence.


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## BlasterStumps

I've been playing with the Nicholls mitre box. A new table is made. I cleaned up the rest of the box and got everything loosened up. Trying to come up with a set of legs but don't have the correct strap to make them out of. What a strange mitre box. The table only rests on the back of the frame. The front of the table is captured by a couple of thumb screws. So the front to back angle is set by those front thumb screws. Likewise the angle of cut will also be determined by the same setting. Another thing that is way different than most full size boxes is that there is no stops when you raise the saw up. Once I settle on the legs I will use, I will explore the settings more. I also need to find a saw that is going to work in it. That might be more than just how much the plate extends below the spine. Thickness of plate might come into play.


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## JethroBodean

Wow, it sure has been quite around here over the last month or so. Just to remind everybody, I am absolutely a bottom feeder, scouring the Restores and the Junk Shops. I haven't really been finding a lot over the last couple of years, but it doesn't stop me from looking. I feel like my expertise, if you can call it that, is mostly with the Goodell Pratt All Steels and the Stanley Boxes. I have a couple of Millers Falls, mostly All Steels, after they bought out Goodell Pratt.

I have never really aimed at the Millers Falls Langdon Acme boxes, but nonetheless I have a couple of them as well. The Acmes I do have seem to be later boxes with a very flimsy metal badge or a Foil Decal on the front saw guide.

A couple of weeks ago, while cruising the local restore, I found a Miller Falls Langdon Acme with a brass looking badge, complete with a Disston saw. The saw even had a reasonably clear etch.The thing looks to be in great shape. The only thing missing was the front post Depth Gauge (which I knew I had a spare from a newer box). The I noticed the price…$10.

I could not get that box to the counter quick enough. When the young lady was ringing it up she said, would you like to use your $5 worth of points! A beautiful Miller Falls Langdon Acme 74 went home with me for just $5 out of pocket! A happy 'Non-Collector' was I!


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## theoldfart

Jeff, a great addition to your "non-collection"!


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## Johnny7

Nice find indeed, Jeff

If you get the urge to take it apart, you might want to go to post #5725 (above)

Kevin (TOF) was a great help to me when I went through mine (a box of about the same era as yours)


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## donwilwol

This followed me home


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## JethroBodean

Yep, TOF is a fountain of information. Now I'm not saying all of that information is useful, but one way or another he generally makes me smile. Thanks Johnny


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## BlasterStumps

Nice find Don. I got's one. They are monsters, huh?


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## bandit571

In the Dungeon Woodshop, there resides…

Stanley No. 2246
Stanley No. 346
Stanley No. 358
and a Millers Falls ACME Langdon No. 75, 2-1/2 frame size

have several smaller, easier to travel, Mitre Boxes, with saws.

They all can come in very handy…depending on what size work needs done. 
All have been rehabbed by me…


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## BlasterStumps

I had a L.H. Olmsted No 6 mitre box in my hands the other day. It was in good condition with some surface rust. No saw with it. It had the original table and all three legs were there. I was really taken by the ornate casting, the simplicity of it and, it looked like most any saw with enough length and a depth of cut equal to the saw guides would work. I would have bought that box in a second if it would have been priced a little more reasonable. The saw guides remind me of the Hempe boxes I have seen.


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## bandit571

In use the other day…









Reset from 45 back to 90 degrees









Couple of days earlier, was cutting perfect 45s









And now cutting perfect 90 degrees….both times, I was cutting Maple parts….

Millers Falls No. 1816.


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## theoldfart

How many mitre boxes does it take to make a 1/2" x 7" piece?

Three! 

The usual big sucker then the little guys


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## JethroBodean

Hey, I love this. Maybe I can expand upon this idea to finally explain to my wife why I NEED so many mitre boxes!


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## theoldfart

The "concept" has worked well for me. Always bring her in and show the special way each works. None of this 45/405/55 combination stuff.


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## theoldfart

A better view of the AD Hughes double cut box


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## Mosquito

That is still one of the coolest boxes I've seen


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## RWE

That is an awesome box. I am liking the holdfasts too. Nice leaf pattern on the tip.

Do you have a link to info on the Hughes. I don't think I have seen one before.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

very nice, kevin!


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## theoldfart

Thanks guys. Glad I finally had a "legitimate" need to use it!


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## theoldfart

Speaking of legitimate needs …………

FLAGGED


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## HokieKen

See, I told y'all Kev wasn't a collector!

That Hughes box is cool but it's the one in the first pic that haunts my dreams…


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## theoldfart




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## DavePolaschek

So I see cool miter boxes on here. Is there a website somewhere that lists all the various types? Or even gives a rundown on the most popular ones? I can see spending a bunch of time doing "research" before deciding which half-dozen miter boxes would be "needed" in the shop…


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## theoldfart

Not that I'm aware of Dave. There is a Facebook group that Jon Hall (POA) helped start. Check out the Millers Falls/Langdon mitre box site as well.

https://langdonmitreboxes.wordpress.com/


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## theoldfart

Well, just scored a nice early Langdon in decent shape on the'Bay.
It's been years since I've found something there. Pics on arrival.


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## theoldfart

BTW, RWE, the hold fasts are from Black Bear Forge. They are a Phil Koontz design.

Here


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## theoldfart

A new form of "hybrid woodworking". I have a lot of cuts to make, about thirty or so in oak 7 inches wide. I start the cut on the mitre box and finish with a panel saw, way faster.










Cuts down on wear and tear on the mitre saw and i still get a good square edge.


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## Mosquito

and I like the dust collection


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## theoldfart

You want a PDF of the plans?


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## bandit571

Already in use…


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## KentInOttawa

> A new form of "hybrid woodworking". I have a lot of cuts to make, about thirty or so in oak 7 inches wide. I start the cut on the mitre box and finish with a panel saw, way faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cuts down on wear and tear on the mitre saw and i still get a good square edge.
> 
> - theoldfart


Dang. I wish that I had know about that trick this morning.


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## JethroBodean

Ladies and Gentleman (clearly I'm using the term loosely); a question about the Traut Mitre box legs. (None of mine have the original legs) Am I remember correctly that on the early Traut boxes, the legs were made of bronze or brass?
Thx y'all


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## theoldfart

The earliest Trauts had bronze legs, a change was made to iron pretty quickly.


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## JethroBodean

TOF - I never did thank you for the info on the Traut legs. I was hoping to convince someone to join LJ and this group.


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## theoldfart

Jeff, are you sure you want to let them know we're your friends?


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## JethroBodean

Oh, so now you suddenly want to be friends??! 
Yeah, I can live with that!

I have a few junkers I need to post. A butchered Nicholls and a Traut with a broken leg.


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## HokieKen

That Traut must have owed Kev money.


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## BlasterStumps

Did I really see what I think I saw today?


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## theoldfart

Jeff, define butchered.
Ken, yea he did!
Good use of a tailed mitre saw.


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## Mosquito

Depth stops and length stop both in action last night, shortening the dovetail part of some sliding dovetail cleats


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## bandit571

Seen while out and about, today…









Not sure who made this one….saw looked almost brand new…

Along with a fair share of the corded style…









Looked through 3-4 tents/vendors…that were nothing but tools, today. 









Good thing I didn't NEED another mitre box…


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## Bearcontrare

I was "good".I walked away from an all metal JORGENSEN in the box at a thrift store. The magnetic pulling back there is pretty strong….. must…..re….sist…..


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## BlasterStumps

I was cutting on the Stanley 246 using a Stanley saw with a Stanley trip clamp. After only a very short time cutting, the trip clamp came loose and fell on the floor. After some close inspection of how it mounts and supposedly tighten onto the spine, I'm wondering if the trip clamp works better on certain spines or? Maybe the reason they are hard to find these days is that they were prone to coming loose and falling off?


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