# Help using dye stain & to stop streaking.



## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Ken here,

I watched the Woodwhisper dye video using the 7 parts Orange & 4 parts Med Brown dye stain by general finishe's. I love the color. I'm making an Entertainment Center out of Ash Plywood for the case & Knotty Alder for the top and drawer and raised panel doors. I used Charles Neil blotch control 2 coats like recommended as well.

For the life of me I can not get this color to stop streaking or looking uneven on both the plywood or solid wood. I'm applying it with a sponge brush like you did as well. I wipe it with a cotton cloth once penatrated. I have thought about using a roller but once I wipe it I feel it will still streak.

I have never had this much trouble finishing a project….

Any ideas or help would be much so much help. 
Thx in advance 
Ken


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## ken_c (Sep 28, 2009)

Seal coat of shellac on top of the dye, then add the top coat. Maybe even spray the shellac seal coat…

never mind - I misread the question.

But, maybe it is like pine or maple. Both are really hard to stain. Cherry too for that matter. maybe the blotch control you used is the issue. Did you sand to too fine of a grit? I have had issue with colorizing maple where I sanded to 220 only to find out that caused the blotching issue. The cell structure was to small and sanding to that fine of a grit caused parts of the board to get plugged while other were not, hence blotches. Once I re-sanded I stopped at 180, no more blotching…

Please tell us you did not use a purchased tack rag, those things are full of silicates that repel the finish and plug the cells structure of the wood.

For blotch control I have had a lot of success with a 1/2 pound cut of shellac. Had applied lightly then sanded to the finial grit, usually 180. Then the color goes on as a glaze followed by a sprayed top coat.


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## DonH (Sep 8, 2010)

Hi Ken

Not sure what the issue can be other than not fully mixed - that would seem to be the only way it would streak. I regularly mix Old Masters gel stains with no trouble, but if there is a small area that did not mix thoroughlly it will streak. I fix it with a quick rub of the spot and add more stain.

Don't know if this is any help.

Don


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Ken, Hows it going buddy?

I did sand to 320, and sanded lightly in between the blotch control that alot of people swear by. Did not use a tack rag, hate them. Cleaned off with air and mineral spirits and dried overnight. It might be the color and the way it goes on. But so far it is awful.

Don how have you been? I have made sure I mix the stain real well before using each time. I did what do as well and fix the spot by adding a little more but at time it make it worse.

Not sure on how I will fix this, I have way to much time and money to give up now! LOL

Thx


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

Have you thought of Charles Neils' wood conditioner… I have not tried it but A1Jim swears by it…


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Yes you might of missed that in my discription Degoose. Hope all is well down under mate!


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

Ken it may be the mineral spirits is not compatible with the dye stain. Is the dye stain a alcohol base or alkyd base. If it a alcohol base try whipping the surface with denature alcohol first. Just a thought worth trying my friend good luck …Wilson


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

Problem what I see people do( this includes articles and wood working magazine) They are misleading which can cause problems in finishes.

Its they *FLOOD* the dye stain on the surface of the wood. That can cause streaks, overlaps.

*BRUSH IT ON MOVE ON.
DON'T OVER BRUSH*

Please get rid of your sponge brush and get a good quality natural white china bristle.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

what you want to do it wet the area and wipe it back and move on, dyes dry fast and over wiping will give you the streaks, sprayin is best, but not always possible i personally like a stain pad, because it allows for me to wet the surface, fast, brushes and so forth dont hold enough dye to wet a surface fast and quick, thus lapmarks, the objective is to work one panel , section at a time, get it wet as quick as possible and then wipe it back, you can use a damp pad, with either water or alcohol to even and level the dye, if needed, also dyes dry fast , and as they dry they look awful, dull and dead, and you will be tempted to rewipe, dont, dyes, what you see what its wet is what you will see when its topcoated, if the color is light , let it dry and then apply another coat.


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm using General Finishes Water based Dyes. I did not use Mineral spirits to clean the other parts, same result.

Steve, Interesting info, I will try my luck and use a brush. I did exactly as you mentioned, put a good amount on and wiped it back with no luck.

Charles, I thank you as well. Love the Blotch Control I purchased from you. I do not think this is a blotching problem, more an application Sna Fu on my part. I broke out my HVLP last night and started ensuring all the parts were perfectly cleaned. I will go buy a stain pad as well.

Should I sand the top with 180 and then spay or if I spray over it will it even out?

Thx everyone for the help. I have never run into this kind of finishing problem, and appreciate all the advice and assistance.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Ken you can spray over, however it wiil definately get alot darker, remember unlike a stain, 2 coats of dye are usually double dark , if it were me, i woul dwipe it down with a semi wet cloth and remove as much of the dye as possible, remember a water dye can always be redissolved by water, until its topcoated, but agaiu go easy, alot of water and you can soften the blotch control, as its water soluable as well, if it starts feeling tacky, back off, let it dry a while ,and then do it again, but you should be able to wipe most of the dye off,


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thx I'll give it a shot. Too much time and money to loose this Battle…


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

Ken

Can you post a photo?


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

I'm not going to argue with the stain pad, everyone has a way of doing things. I'm not a fan of stain pad. I prefer to brush it. Its up to you.


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## tdv (Dec 29, 2009)

Well Ken we have a lot of different brands in the UK & I'm not sure how they compare to the American counterparts But in recent years I have started using paint pads (I guess that's the same thing as your stain pads?)
a thin sponge pad with chenille facing. I find it easier to blend & even scrub the stain or dye in then pull the colour to the desired density by adding a little water to the pad & "blending it" as auto refinishers do by adding succesive amounts of clear lacquer to the colour to fade out into the original. One technique I use is to pull the pad diagonal to the grain & then finish with the grain it seems to body up the colour & as Charles rightly says you can semi-remove & soften the intensity by wetting & wiping just remember to dry it quickly before too much water is absorbed. I hope you nail it
Best
Trevor


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

I will post pics soon. I took the day off from working on it and did some errands. Had to clear my head and let my temper simmer down a bit. I do thank everyone of you for helping me on this rookie item. I never had trouble with finishing before.


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## DonH (Sep 8, 2010)

You know Ken, given all the options you have tried, it could be the product is defective. Why not try a different batch and see what happens.

Just a last desperate thought

Don


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## DonH (Sep 8, 2010)

One more last, last thought, have you checked with the manufacturer - maybe the two stains are incompatible to mix for some reason such as the chemical make-up of the dyes.

Over and out


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Thx Don I did try both of your ideas, tried different batch and called them. The funny thing is it was not a problem on the test pieces… Go figure.

I'm really thinking as someone mentioned I might had sanded to a to high of a grit 320 closing off some of the cells? Will see what my Rockler hvlp will do. Hey this gives me a reason to buy the Earlex 5000, Blondie will be shaking her head at me this week laughing at me.


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

Some of you have asked for pictures. Not proud putting on my mistakes on here but I need to get over it. 
The one of the real bad spot on the top was my sna fu trying to wipe up a glob and it pulled all the dye up.



































!http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/fknken/IMG_2811.jpg!



















*Thx too everyone trying to help me figure this streaking problem out.*

Ok, so after work this morning I came home with a new attitude! I figured it's time to see if spraying the stain would give me better results. First I figured I would try with a spray gun I bought while on sale because it would look good on the pegboard. Then I would use my HVLP I bought from Rockler. Surprisingly the spray gun gave me some really nice results. I sprayed the kick plate and the shelves along with the top. Everything looks good except for the top. Its has to many streak and flaws.

I think I will have to sand it down and re-apply Charles Neil Blotch control ( thx to him as well for helping me).


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## Dirte (Feb 7, 2011)

Dude… I know this problem all to well. I recently used General finishes light brown dye stain for the first time on a project that took a month to build and was faced with the same results. Like you I also used Charles Neil's Blotch control with two coats wiped back with a damp rag which I was more than happy with but cant say the same thing about my experience with the dye stain. I dont think I will ever use it again on a big project with lots of detail. My project had dental molding, slats and a lot of difficult areas to wipe back. I sprayed mine with my Fuji HVLP Q4 Pro spray system to apply the stain but flooded the surface so still had to wipe it back. The way I was able to get rid of the excess buildup was to very lightly wipe the surface across the grain with a stain pad that had been soaked in water and squeezed out just to where it was damp. Give this a shot (assuming your dye is water based). It finally got me to an acceptable result. Sorry to hear about your shared misfortune with the dye stain. Good luck!


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## chasferr (Sep 16, 2012)

Hello, my aplogies if I am posting in the wrong place.

I am refinishing an oak dining room table. I have sanded it. And I have applied Dark water based Walnut dye. The dye orginally did not go on evenly, very light in places. I thin resanded it. Reapplied the dye. This time using a rag to apply and remove excess. Worked very, well. I then applied a sanding sealer recommended by a floor person at Woodcraft.

The sealer again blotched up the dye. puddling up and lighting up on 1/2 the table. The other half held up pretty good.

I really need some guidance. Don't really know what to do from here. HELP


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

see if this helps http://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/applying-dyes-stains-over-my-blotch-control-prestain/

Simple rule ot dyes, ... On wet, off wet, paper towels do a nice job of wiping off. Do as small of areas as possible.
Premixed dyes dry faster than those you add water too, which helps alot.

In your photos it appears you over wiped, also be sure to let the blotch control dry well, especially in humid weather.


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## Michigander (Oct 11, 2011)

I would suggest that sanding to 320 is part of the problem. I use General Finishes water based stains frequently and was told to sand to 180 max. If the surface is too smooth it wont take dye. I agree, you don't want to flood it. Just brush it on quickly- don't work it in by brushing back and forth. That just dries it out and causes streaking. 
Try that and you will see much less streaking. Charles Neil is right on; you over wiped and rubbed through the color. 
Good Luck, John


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## cubicalmonkey (Oct 26, 2013)

Ugh I wish I saw this post a week ago. I'm finding myself in exactly the same position same sealer and all. Just finished sanding and wiping all the color off my surface and sealed again using Charles Neails' precolor conditioner. I too am certain this is my lack of experience with water based dyes. Thanks everyone for their input!


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