# Which Website Solution Works for You?



## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Soon, my hosted website will be up for renewal, north of $120. I haven't had sales on it all year, probably due to search engine optimization failure. Maybe it's product, pricing, or whatever as well. Be that as it may, I'd like to obviously not pay for a site, if I don't have to.

My thought is to use Wordpress as my business website. I say "business", but I mean sideline, not mainline. My thought is, that Google more easily scans Wordpress, and hopefully, would rank my site higher. I think I would invest in a nice Wordpress template as well. I have had a blog on my site for some time, and it ranks very high on what is looked at on my website, which I would throw a lot more time at in the coming year.

I'm just wondering if any of you guys had a similar situation, and perhaps did what I'm thinking of doing, and how it worked out. Perhaps you took a different route that worked out well that you'd like to share.

Appreciate any helpful thoughts


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You can host for about $5 a month with hostgator,
but the reason you're not selling stuff doesn't have as much to 
do with SEO as you are supposing.

More SEO is no panacea for a website that isn't selling anything,
nor is moving to Wordpress, which does have some good SEO
plugins available. Wordpress is an excellent platform to build 
a site on.

If you want to sell stuff, you need to learn about conversion optimization -
and in your case trying to become the digital sort of marketer 
may not be your calling. There certainly is a substantial learning
curve to it that represents considerably more of an investment
in time than the $120 per years you've invested, valuing your time
at less than $1 per hour. I'm saying internet marketing is nuanced
and there's a lot to it.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*Loren,*

I have to believe my items are at least decent, as I did sell a bunch of stuff 2 years ago after the local newspaper here in Rochester did a blurb on me, being a local artist….so I'm not so sure it's the product, though I am beginning to believe higher-end clocks aren't brisk sellers, and I should move on to something more diversified.

I'm certainly not a website newbie, as I did do website design some time ago - albeit design, not marketing or SEO.

I guess I'm just looking for a better solution, both in cost and in SEO, and my guess was Wordpress.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Then market locally. That tells you something. Promote in print
and in person, driving traffic to your site. Cold search engine traffic 
has been shown not to convert to sales, right? Don't tilt
at windmills - SEO isn't a good investment in driving targeted
traffic for you - articles and craft shows are. Don't give up on
the site, but put your energy into targeting the right audience,
eg. the "offline" audience.

You can make a book about how your clocks are made and get
an ISBN, publish on Amazon in Kinlde and/or print format. That
might do something for you.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*Loren,*

I've looked into local and regional print ads, but it's expensive, at $500 per ad, in print, for targeted markets, and even newspapers. As I'm sure you know, multiple, successive ads are usually required to saturate the user, to get them to remember you.

The problem with craft shows, unless they are regional high-end shows, is that that market is usually women that want to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $25 for either jewelry, home or garden decor. Bigger ticket items like mine just won't move, but cutting boards do.

I've even investigated selling on commission with local art shops, but that want upwards of 50%, which is really too much, though I understand their position.

Why I'm targeting internet sales is simply because of the global reach, those of times more exposure than an ad will generate, in my opinion - IF you can get a decent ranking on Google, the king-maker of websites. I've heard tales of businesses being wiped-out because Google changed their secret sauce, and bumped them from #1 to say, #7.

Just some thoughts; I appreciate yours


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Good luck with that SEO strategy. You'd be better off selling
clickbank ebooks for the labor you'll invest… but handcrafted
clocks are a longshot.

I may be coming off like a jerk… but if you want to capture a
top 10 ranking for "handmade clocks" on Google you'll probably
make more money selling books on the topic than your own 
clocks….. the problem being that wooden clocks are a narrow
niche market.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

"the problem being that wooden clocks are a narrow
niche market."

It is, so shouldn't it be easier to rise to the top, if there is less competition?

Books are not my passion; my creations are. This is not a money passion here. I was simply looking for advice on better, economical website solutions, as per my OP.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Interesting….I just checked, for the first time in over 6 months, and for the search term "Mission clocks" on Google, I come up as the 5th result.

Hmmm.


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

Pashley, I feel your frustration, but I don't have the answer for you. My products (weatherproof pouches for building supplies, covers for any type of equipment kept outdoors) are unique, and I thought when I introduced them almost 3 years ago, that the uniqueness alone would sell them for me.
It's been a long struggle, a lot of late nights and some large expenditures in magazine and internet advertising.
My biggest lesson to date? Magazine ad sellers are good at their jobs and basically full of sh**! That was the worst investment I ever made. Maybe my next door neighbor was right- he bought the woodworking magazine, but never looked at the ads in the back (I couldn't afford the glitzy quarter or half page ads).
My website visits never went up even 1% the week the new issue came out. When those salespeople call now, I politely say 'no way, no thanks'.
Keep trying, work on the local marketing as well, like Loren says. They say good things come to those who wait.
Good luck.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Search term has probably has no money in it. If committed to
SEO marketing, choose another phrase to optimize for or 
optimize your site to convert to clock sales with current term
(long shot).


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## KylesWoodworking (Jan 11, 2011)

I use webs.com to host my website. You can have a website completely free like I do, but it will put ".webs.com" at the end of your domain name. Like mine: www.KylesWoodworking.webs.com You can pay extra to take it off but it doesn't bother me much. It's real easy to make a website and I've used it for 2 years and never payed a dime.
Kyle


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## MrsN (Sep 29, 2008)

I am not the kind of person who would drop $500 on a clock, but I do know a few people who would. The problem for you is that the people I know who would spend that on a clock would never do an internet search for handmade clock, or buy a $500 clock online. They would want to see and feel the quality, to know that it really is handmade by the guy in charge, to be able to shake the hand of the artist/craftsman. There is a lot of false information on the internet and it wouldn't be that hard for someone to buy cheap factory made things, make a cute website and pretend they made the stuff themselves. 
I think your best bet would be to exploit your local resources as much as you can and use your website as a medium to your clients out of town friends and the occasional web sale. I don't know if you need the expensive print adds, and I understand that craft sales don't have your target market. Restaurants and coffee shops around here have display pieces that are for sale and work as decoration in the place, could you do that in your area? Give a business owner a cut of the sale, and stick some business cards near the clock. Have you talked to every art gallery, and "uppity" boutique. (I am really jealous of you being able to be in an "uppity" boutique so please don't take offense. We have a couple here that have that kind of stuff. my personal love/hate is the "metal art sculpture" that is car brake drums and rotors welded poorly together and selling for $4,000. I have all the parts in my garage and could do a better welding job, but no one will pay me that price…sorry I got side tracked) find out if they all want 50%, ask what they think the clock could be sold for. Look into where other artists spend their time, I have a feeling that the local strategy might be specific and helpful. Maybe do some research on the other people who were featured artists, what do they do for marketing? Talk to interior designers, tell them what you make, or could make. There must be someone in the state of New York who is redoing their house in a mission style.

Also, the teacher in me has to say double check the grammar on your web page. Also, on my screen there is something funky happening with the tabs at the top of your site, the first few are hidden by your logo even at the smallest font size, the larger sizes some of the options disappear completely.


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

MrsN, you have great ideas, to add to the restaurant/coffee shop idea, I'll add - the lobbies of quality bed and breakfasts, independent hotels, etc. (I doubt if the chains would let you display a clock unless you gave it to them).


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

Pashley, I remember a post just a little while back where a guy was talking about a custom bookcase in Brooklyn, or somewhere NY, NY. According to the consensus he got a real good price compared to other areas of the country. Why not try to place your branded, like with an iron, clocks in some "uppity" boutique, at a price you will like and they make what they can. Your product could then sell itself and you. Kind of what MrsN said, "uppity" boutique and all.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Pashley, I do about 15 - 20 Art and Craft shows per year. My average ticket is about $60. Some of my friends have average tickets of several hundred dollars each.

I agree with Loren above of attending the shows and even if you don't make sales, interacting with the customers is important. You can learn a lot by just talking with them. If the people recoil when they hear the price, try another show. There are good shows out there but you have to find them. The best way to find them is to ask your current customers how they found you, where they live and do they know of any art shows that you would fit in with.

Also at your shows, you will also need to make sure that your display looks like a $500 per item booth. You need to have handouts with your name, website and phone prominently displayed. This way if people are interested they have a way of getting back in touch when they are ready to purchase.


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

Check out iPage. It's what I use. It's cheap and realiable. See ngfmc.com

http://www.ipage.com


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

Pashley, Sponsor local concert or graduation program booklets. Try a booth at some fairs. You'll sell those clocks.

Don, I can't get to your site from the link on your homepage. Cut and paste from the address above and it looks good. How's the vibration on your saw going? Jack


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## Nighthawk (Dec 13, 2011)

Me having a marketing background, (one of the many things I have done) you can not just put up a website and the wait for the results and expect people to know about it…

You still, no matter what, have to do the old fashion marketing and advertising. If people don't know the site exsists, people won't visit or search for it. So make sure you have a least the right meta tags set.

You say you were suprised "mission clocks" came high in a google search…. the reason was it is pretty close search parameters… but people won't search for "mission clocks" unless they know it is a brand. The real test would be "Hand crafted clocks" where do you come there in the search if you come on the 1st - 2nd page you are doing well.

You need to do the hard yadder ie; craft shows, fairs, galleries and the like. Make sure you have your websie on the tags of your products. Sell them on Trademe… doh sorry that a kiwi site errrrm eBay! have link to your site in every descrption.

One problem (well not really a problem) but issue is you are very really going to get repeat clients so you are going to constantly require to advertise (via standard means) to get the new client

The internet is not the be all and end all of promotion it is just a tool that can be used to help with the other means of promotion. Its a good way to cheaply show case you items 24/7 365 of the year. But just like a shop you need to tell people where you are and that it is open…

So at the end of the day it doesn't matter what host or what software solution you use as long as you like it first and formost


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

pashley - Good to see another Rochesterian  You have the added benefit of having Pittsford Lumber very close (I'm in Spencerport)

I do quite a bit of web programming at work and manage the servers there, as well as do a lot of freelance web programming. I have a fairly beefy server through Dreamhost that I host a number of sites on and lease out a bit of space, most of it wordpress installs. It sounds like you have a few problems that you want to work out-namely not getting a decent ROI. If you're interested, I could work something out with you for some cheap, but unlimited, hosting.

As for SEO, what's going to help you the most is to make sure your page titles, meta tags, and page content are all on target and to get incoming links from other sites. Not only will that translate into site referrals, but Google looks very favorably on that.

Realistically, I don't think you'd get much internet-driven traffic anyway.. its going to be more locally-driven traffic.. galleries, shows, fairs.. aka business cards! ^_^

Anyway, shoot me a pm if you're interested in looking to switch hosts.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

These high end clocks are a niche, and at that price point I agree, I'd want to hold it first. Selling custom guitars, I had to carve out a niche for myself. There are dozens of mainstream guitar companies, and hundreds of one-person shops. Whew, what to do? I have a backlog of at least 2-4 guitars for 19 months now…
I put up a website with Intuit, and it gets good pull on Google. That's because I gave my guitars a unique name. Turns out there is a guy on Vancouver Island Canada who tried to have the same name, but I got the website and Facebook page first, so he changed his.
I started a Facebook page that I keep active. It's free and I can post pictures of my stuff as I build it. To date, every guitar in progress that I have posted on Facebook sold before it was done. (Most are sold before I start, but once in a while I stick in one.)
I wrote the story of how I got into building guitars with pictures of me in the shop and of the guitars - marrying my love of woodworking for 39 years with my again and again frustration of trying to learn how to play guitar, and submitted that story to Fretboard Journal Magazine, who put it online, not in the magazine. My hits on my website doubled from 6 to 12 to now 15 and up daily, and even though that article was written almost 10 months ago, yesterday half of my 19 hits on my website were due to people reading that article. I average about 150 Facebook visits a week.
We have one of those local cheesy daytime shows that features festivals, writers, artists, blah, blah. I submitted myself, and two months later, I found myself and one of my guitars on TV! And I sold a couple off that.
I then submitted to my local paper, they do a Wednesday edition Living Page where they feature local craftsmen and women. And I got that.
The website is only a tool, the real marketing lesson here is you have to find inexpensive and effective ways to market yourself, be it a booth at a fair, an appearance on a TV show, or even one time, I entered a guitar in a woodworking competition at a local county fair, won first place, and sold the guitar to a guy four states away who happened to see the posting for the fair online!
Market, market, market. SEO's are not gonna cut it.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*Tennessee*

Your reply caught my eye, and here's why: A few people have commented that with my clock being a higher-ticket item, that people would want to be able to hold and see it in person, before laying down that kinda cash. I think that's a valid point.

But then you testify that your craft is doing well - which somewhat counteracts the point I just made. I would think that a person buying a guitar would want to hold it, and play it for a while before buying it, and not just buy it "cold" off a website.

And just for comparision sake, in 2011, I averaged about 272 visitors a month on my site.

Thoughts?


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

You would be right about them wanting to play it. But here's a niche I discovered that has sold many guitars for me. YouTube…
If you look on the front page of my website, there are three video links to YouTube, each showing a different thing. The first and now lowest on the page was a rather cheesy one I had made which features me and a local pro player. Allthough it is pretty dated now, it gets regular hits, about 50 or more a month, and people get to hear two different guitars, and they get to hear me explain how my guitars are a little better for the money. 
The second one ever posted was by a guy who bought a cedar Tele off me. He had this crappy camera, but was an outstanding player and knew how to extract sounds from a guitar. He was using this bottom feeder Kustom amp, but by golly, it has done very, very well and has a follow up video he did with the guitar going through distortion pedals, which the metal people like. Lots and lots of hits.
The last one was posted by a guy in California. He did a Blues riff that was nice, and although you could not see the guitar really well, you could tell it was a Tsunami. The sound was just great. Again, a few hundred hits.
Ironically, he just purchased a 12 string from me which arrived last week. He posted a video playing it, (the guitar is only in the video for about 5 seconds - the rest is just the camera looking at his amp), and this video took 225 hits in it's first 24 hours, as of 1/12/2012, today. It was posted the morning of 1/11/2012. The ironic thing is I don't know where all the hits are coming from, I suspect someone posted it on a guitar forum somewhere.

Now, I took that latest one and added it to my Facebook page at 10AM EST 1/12/2012. It picked up an additional 8 hits in the next two hours. If it doesn't taper off, I would suspect over 500 people will have viewed that video by next Monday, plus the others are still climbing because now they show up in the "other videos you might like" bar on the right. Can you match that?
Total, over 1700 views of my guitars playing on YouTube. For me, they are just like a website hit. They want to hear them play, but they also know they can play them as well, and they can listen in for problems pretty easy.

So although I forgot to mention YouTube in my first posting, (I think), it has turned out to be that bridge gap between not touching/playing/hearing and the real thing. The one on my bench right now the fellow told me flat out the reason he bought the model he bought was because of the guy who posted the basic same model on YouTube.
So all this stuff starts to grow on itself and stack up as a rather formidable advertising medium.
I started by building a guitar for the owner of the company that produced my "Official Tsunami Guitar Company Video." So it was mostly time on my part. From there, people just started posting neat videos on what they just bought.

If I were you, I would consider putting up a video of your wares, and if any of them chime, make sure that is in there, along with you describing the fine points of your beautiful products. If you have a digital camera, or can borrow one that is fairly clear, a YouTube post is free. Then you put a link to it on your website like I did, and watch the people start to take a look. Put clocks in various positions in your house, so people can see how it looks against different woods, paint, tables, use your imagination. If you have 4-5 of them around, take people on a little tour of your clocks, as you walk around the places where they are located in your home. People will then get to see how it would look in a similar position in their home. And it's free!

One last thing. As far as my guitars being picked up by Google quickly, I have key words on every page, (section provided by Intuit for free), and my name is unique, not many things out there called Tsunami save for the wave and one band in Oregon, now disbanded, and an Australian magazine, I think. That's not much competition when it comes to page placement on a search in Google.

And I don't have to pay a dime for any of it, save for the lousy $19.99 I pay Intuit a month.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

I don't think it would harm putting a video up on a clock chiming; I don't think anyone would search for it on YouTube….however, them hosting it for free is nice. On the flip side, on my web site, I do have recordings of the clocks chiming. Not as exciting as a video, but….


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

With a link from your website, how many of the 270-odd hits a month would you think would take the time to look at "the clock in action", so to speak? Maybe the video on YouTube would not be hit by people directly on YouTube, but with a Facebook page with the link, and with it linked from your website, I think you might be surprised to see how many people would enjoy a description and the benefits of owning a clock such as you make. And, it helps them satisfy the need to actually see it in person. If 50 people a month took a look at the video, and 5% bought a clock, that's 2.5 more clocks a month out there. And as you know, the more out there, the more will buy because they see them and want them.
It's just a thought. Hope you sell a bunch!!!
Paul
Tsunami Guitars


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You should sign up as an affiliate with some company like Rockler
that sells clock parts and books about making clocks. I think
you'll be pleasantly surprised that you can make a few bucks 
off the woodworker traffic you are getting.

I maintain that the likeliest scenario is the clock search traffic
is mostly hobby guys looking for clock ideas to build their own
clocks.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Unfortunately for Pashley, Loren, you are probably right on. The old, "I can build that cheaper" syndrome…
Probably a lot of bad copies of his clocks out there, sitting on mantels with relatives telling the builder how well he did.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I have used Hostica and Webnet77. I like Webnett77 better - they give really good service. I have used Joomla and Worpress and I like Wordpress better. If you want to learn a lot more about web sites Lynda.com has some great courses and you can join by the month.

helluvawreck
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Maveric777 (Dec 23, 2009)

I use weebly to build and host my site (its free), and use hover for my domain…. all for the whopping price of $15 a year. I'm not a big fan of the blogger type sites simply due to they seem to get cluttered easily (at lest to e they do). Now that being said I didn't build mine to generate revenues or what not…... just a place I can show my work someplace besides Facebook.


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## Nighthawk (Dec 13, 2011)

In the past for various clienst and websites I have run I have used Joomla/Mambo, Wordpress and Wiki, phpbb3 & ocPortal, WebGallery (with plugins to sell stuff and feed back), Auction software and phpNuke, Drupal, Zcart, OSCommerce… I have used variety of others and written and designed my own pages.

Every single one of them no matter you want to use or how much you pay for it, will have a bad points that it can't do this or that, is to complicated or not as secure enough, or doesn't get updated, to difficult to add plugins, the help desk is useless, the software is now non supported… and the list goes on on.

You need to go to place like www.hotscripts.com and have a look at any feed back and see your options that available.

However many have come a long way and are now pretty easy and user friendly if you take the time to look into it all

For my Blog I use Wordpress… its meh… okay does what it says it will do. If I was selling stuff online again I would be Zcart or OSCommerce… complicated at first but once you sort it out it does most things for selling many different items… but a waste if you only have 3 or 4 items…

If I only had 3 or 4 items I would set up a paypal account and use thier shopping cart scripts and API's has worked well for me in the past…

Then as I said before up to your *standard marketing proceedures* offline to start getting the customers to visit on line.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Fortunately, I'm well versed in Joomla, a content management system, and fairly well versed in Wordpress.

What I really need to concentrate on is Google finding me, and what the best venue is for that, and I don't think Joomla is. This forum might not be the best place to find that answer, perhaps a webmasters forum would be.


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## johnnation (Jul 5, 2011)

I use 1&1 with a wordpress blog. I followed this tutorial: http://themeshaper.com/2009/06/22/wordpress-themes-templates-tutorial/ to customize a template to fit the design of the rest of my site.


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## Oldmanwheeler (Jan 16, 2012)

I have several websites I take care of and I have them all on iPage. They are very reasonable and have GREAT customer service. I am still trying to find a Wordpress e-commerce theme that fits my needs but agree it's the most cost effective way to do a store.


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## Sailor (Jun 17, 2009)

I haven't read the above posts, forgive me if this has already been stated.

I use Google's Blogger to "host" my website on my own domain. You can get all kinds of templates to make your blog look like a true website and there are all kinds of post editors out there where can get vey creative with your posts and customize them well.

To make a blog look like a website is easy really. Just set the setting to display one post at a time and date the "homepage" post well in the future and it will stay as the "homepage"

Add navigation to in the layout and whatever else you want that you could find in a normal website and just link to your different posts and and they will show up like pages.

Good thing about Google's blogger is there is never any downtime and your "website" is always running and it is EASY to edit your site, very easy.

Feel free to check out my bloggler "website" Sailography.com


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