# Love your work but your over priced?



## Resurrected (Jan 11, 2011)

I did a corner shelf with a radius not squared off. Took solid wood and bent it to make molding. The complete project was made from 30 bd ft of solid oak. No plywood. This thing was good. His wife loved it but he says he won't have me do anything else cause I'm too expensive. I charged 280 ish for it. 130 ish was material, only charged 15 hours at 10 bucks an hour and I'm over priced come on. Am I blind or is it everyone wants something for nothing.


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## thehammer (Jan 31, 2009)

A pic would help. Most people where I live would rather spend that at Ikea. NO Appreciation.


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## beckerswoodworks (Dec 26, 2009)

I don't thnk it's because they want something for nothing. It's unfortunate for us woodworkers but most people just don't understand the difference between something custom made and something similar from Wallmart for a fraction of the cost. There are people that do and you just need to find them.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

You are not over priced.


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## Resurrected (Jan 11, 2011)

Sorry I don't post PIcs' Gladly send you a pic if you wish. But won't display it for all to see.

I think Don and superdav hit it. Its just frustrating.

Yea I know 10 dollars is cheap. Just starting to sell my work. Figure build a rep as a quality builder then start sticking the true price to them.

I also no the bad that can come from that too.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

It's kind of like Don said…..you've got to find the right people who are willing to spend the money on good quality furniture and quality pieces that are custom made…. Example: I did an entertainment center for this couple that I do work for some, and it was solid oak, and heavy as a bear to move…it took me about 3 weeks to build it, and it was $1,200, and these folks never batted an eye about the price…..when they came to pick it up, they were tickled to death (the woman especially). These are the knid of customers eveybody would like to have, but not always possible… Oh…and I got another small job out of it, too….happy days….


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Kinda like my grand father always said, "There are two ways to buy oats; when they come out of the mill, (custom) and when they come out of the mule. (IKEA)"


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## KnickKnack (Aug 20, 2008)

No matter what you charge, some people will always think it's overpriced.

When we used to run a (software) business there were always some people, institutions etc that would say something along the lines of "sorry, we can't afford that much, how about less?". Simple answer is that if you can't afford it you can't buy it - that's how the world works - otherwise we'd all be driving Ferraris to our private islands to watch our 600" plasma TVs (well, not all of us but you get the drift).


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## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

Did they know the price beforehand? I've learned that makes a big difference, too. Also, I generally break down a quote for somebody. Let them know how much is going into the lumber (I would include a small markup on the lumber, but to each his own) and then how much is the labour.

A lot of people genuinely have no idea how much real lumber costs.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

That is exactly the reason I don't bother doing projects for people. Just isn't worth it. people don't appreciate the skills involved,the time it took to learn these skills,how much tools cost,how much material costs. As others have pointed out, give them a price upfront if they don't like it, IKEA is just out the street(maybe)


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

Wow, $10 an hour is too much? They couldn't touch me, then.

I charge $15/hr in my shop and $30/hour at the job site.
My job site price is about to go up to $32.50/hr in March, but I am keeping my in shop price the same.
I have lost a couple of jobs with this pricing, but, I get a lot more than i lose. I have overhead, as do you, to pay, so, I don't worry about what they think. It is what I need to keep going, so it is what i charge.


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## wiswood2 (Apr 12, 2008)

ya,but they only charge a dollar a day in china ,Frends like that you Dont Need.Chuck


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

One thing I have figured out is that you* NEVER *get your money on labor….When I do a job for someone, I figure I am automatically going to lose on the labor…..even at $10-15 an hour is not enough to cover your time spent doing a job, especially if it's a big job…..In my case, being retired, I don't have to rely on what I make to serve as my income….I try to work with the customer on price, and if all is agreed on, then I go ahead once eveything (details, price, etc.) is up front….if not, then I don't worry about it. I don't advertize at all….I get my work through my wife's beauty shop, so they come to me….and I do it because I like it, and it keeps me out of trouble and off the streets…..


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

Resurrected,

Don't post pictures? And you want to "build a rep as a quality builder then start sticking the true price to them" ??? Sounds like a great business plan to me.

Remember, the customer isn't always right but he's (or she's) the one with the checkbook… So in the long run you have to please them.

Good Luck!

Be Careful!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

My prices are horrific. Embarrassing even. I quote a true price up front and it usually drives them away. LOL with HerbC above, as my business plan is even worse!


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

I can't believe people don't known or care about the difference between real furniture & the crap sold at Walmarts & Target…

I ran into a situation where a woman wanted to get rid of her coffee & end tables… (were her grand mothers) 
She said she was sick of them, she wanted something new….

I ask'd her what color do you want or like, I'll strip them & refinish them any color you want. You just can't get or find this quality any where's today.

I want something new & up to date. She sold the set for $50.00 If I knew that I would have bought it.

Her replacement look'd ok but it was pure junk but she was tickled pink with her decision…


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I've been stiffed a bunch of times by clients who weaseled out of paying
for the finished work after it was put in. Usually they find some way to
think of it that makes them feel like they're not cheating you. If you're
willing to get in their face and lay a guilt trip on you might get paid more
often when these situations come up. And they will…


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

I have a rule I stick by 100% of the time, payment for materials plus 10% up front. Period, end of story. I give them an itemized list of materials, so they know what they are getting. I let them know that there is a 10% surcharge on the material, to pay for me getting it and such.
They get to look at the finished product, but it is not delivered until I have a check in hand for final payment.
I quote a firm price upfront, it will not go over that unless they change their mind, even if I lose money.


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## Jack_T (Feb 6, 2010)

Why don't you post pictures? What is that all about?

You said "Figure build a rep as a quality builder then start sticking the true price to them."

I am not sure what you mean by "then start sticking the true price to them". That has a very negative sound to it. It sounds like either you want to fool people into hiring you thinking they will pay one price and then charge them a much higher price or after you have gained a few more customers you want to start over charging them. Either way this is bad business (if not criminal, i.e. fraud). You will quickly develop a reputation for changing the price or for overcharging. You may even get sued; more importantly any reputation that you had managed to build will be lost and once lost it is almost impossible to get it back.

If on the other hand you meant that after you build a reputation for being a great craftsman, able to do great design and build great custom furniture, you intend to raise your rates to a fair price for your work, then I have the following thoughts. You are already building your reputation. Pricing is part of that reputation. People do want things as cheap as they can get them, but the also expect you to price your work at what you think is a fair value for it. So as you price your work at less than what you think it is worth, you are educating them that this is what you think your work is worth. You will develop a reputation for that price range. You will also find it very difficult to break out of charging in that price range.

A final thought on pricing. Quoting a job as "I am charging you this much for the materials and $xx.xx for labor, I will keep track of my time and bill you for it at the end of the job, is very dangerous. It can create very bad feelings between the craftsman and the customer. The customer has no way of knowing what the final price will be and no way of knowing if you actually spent the time you are billing him. The customer can be left feeling that he was overbilled on the time or even cheated. He can also feel trapped in having to pay a price for something that he cannot afford, or would have chosen not to purchase if the final price had been disclosed to him. He may even refuse to pay you.

A better approach is to quote a fixed price to the customer. You can explain how you arrived at that price: This much is for material and this much is for labor $XX.xx (calculated at x hrs. at $XX.xx per hr). Your price will be $XX.XX. You should not quote a price to the customer until you have completed your material estimates and priced the material.

In those situations where you cannot control the amount of time you will have to expend (an example would be designing a project where the customer will have input and approval) you should qoute the design process separately. My design fee is $XX.xx per hour. I estimate that it will take approximately TT hours in my shop at the rate of $xx.xx per hour and two half hour meetings with you to review the plans at XX.xx per hour. If it takes longer than that much time we will have to review where we stand and how you want to proceed. Be sure to collect the quoted design fee in advance of doing any design work. Your design quote should also specifically state that all designs remain your property. If there comes a time where you actually need to increase the design price, either because the client is taking so much of your time or their demands keep changing, and they do not want to proceed or are unsure about proceeding, thank them for the opportunity to work with them, tell them that you will hold onto your draft plans for a while, and that you hope that they either decide to go forward of that they change their minds. Leave. You may still get the sale. No one likes to spend money and get nothing for it in the end. You will not have lost any money because you have already been paid. Be sure to discuss cost as part of the design process. If they ask for a rare wood that will double the cost of the project you should tell them the effect of using that wood and also suggest alternatives that will save them money and look the same. Never use the alternative wood when charging for the more expensive (even if the customer will never be able to tell). You will develop a great reputation for being honest and fair. Many of your clients will even say "and he saved me so much money." Which is always a great referral.

Just my 2 cents (has anybody else noticed that keyboards don't have the cent character on them anymore?)


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## Jack_T (Feb 6, 2010)

Loren, never install until you are paid. If they refuse payment or try and renegotiate the price do not install.

Dennis, I agree with you, never increase the price simply because you quoted it wrong. You should know how to quote the job correctly. If you don't, and you made a mistake, well that is the cost of learning how to quote the job correctly. If you didn't make a mistake, market costs for the goods went up between the quote and the time you purchased them, again your problem not the client's.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Most of my screw jobs have been done by contractors. You have to understand
that a liar will tell you a lie, like say that he can't get paid until the client signs
off on that part of the job. One contractor took the money that was owed me and
paid to bail his lover out of jail. Love carried the day I guess but I paid the
bill.

I'm not proud of having got screwed and I do know better and did then of course,
but there I was myself with the work in my possession and needing to make
room for the next job, the contractor telling me he didn't have my money and
couldn't get it until the work was in… yada, yada. You learn from experience - 
and never work again with the people who stiff you. That's true in most 
business dealings in my experience.


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

Just to clarify, I have a time limit on my estimates of 15 days, after that, we re look at the material costs to make sure that they haven't went up.
I have only had to modify an estimate once, after it had been 90 days and I actually lowered the cost of materials since I was able to get some stuff less expensive. This gave me several more jobs, as they were ecstatic about the savings.


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

Loren,

I am a contractor and I make sure that payment issues are dealt with upfront.

I get a quote, make sure it is ok with the homeowner, then make sure that payment is there when due.

I have pulled the money out of my own pocket because of a homeowner, but, I made sure to get it back.
None of my subs have ever went unpaid. I have fired a couple, due to horrible work, but they got paid for what they did.


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## Jack_T (Feb 6, 2010)

Dennis, certainly if the quote has become stale that is a different situation. I was thinking of a price fluctuation after being hired.

Loren, your right it is different when you are a subcontractor. Remember, though that as a subcontractor most states have mechanic's lien laws. If the Contractor doesn't pay on time lien the property. You can even tell the Contractor that you are liening the property and telling the home owner why. Rest assured the homeowner will raise H_ll with the contractor to get you paid. Homeowners don't want liens on there property for unpaid work when they have already paid for it once.


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## ChrisForthofer (Jan 1, 2010)

Part of the problem is that people dont know enough to know they dont know enough. They have no idea of the equipment, time, materials or skills involved in the most basic of manufacturing, woodworking or otherwise. They are just used to swipe the little scrap of plastic through the slot and either walk out the door with what they were after or it shows up on their doorstep in a few days. If it just falls apart because its crap (particle board) its "oh well, we'll just buy another". Furniture used to be something you purchased only a few times in your life, (i.e. people held on to it for a long time) now its a fashon accesory. I know its the way things are but its sad that people are willing to pay several hundred dollars on a cell phone they will toss in 2 years and balk at a piece of furniture thats over $300 and doesnt come flat packed.

Chris.


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

Jack_T, I assumed that was what you meant. I just thought it good to explain in a bit more detail how I work my estimate. 
Generally, 15 days is quick enough to not have any fluctuation, but, there has been some here and there.

Also, I never quote the materials based on a sale, I only use retail prices, as a sale may end the next day and then you have to beg for the difference or eat the difference. Much easier to tell the customer after the fact that you were able to save them X amount of dollars because it went on sale, then take the price off the final payment. Makes you look good and them feel good.


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

Chris,
Amen to that!


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Jack T, Right on!!!

I have always priced my products toward the high end of the market. I have found that some people will pay it with no problem, recognizing the quality and workmanship. Others are price focused and leave right away once they get the pricing. Others I teach, show and educate them as to why I charge what I do and I get over 50% of these people. In fact, when I have competitors nearby, once done with my story, I tell them if you still not sure go visit Mr. X with lower pricing and ask him about what I just told you. I get over 50% of those people back as customers. They have taken their new knowledge and applied into making a decision.

As far as what is good furniture and what is not. Most people are NOT woodworkers like us and don't understand the difference between a but joint or a dovetail joint. They don't care until they are educated about why it is that way. When is the last time that one of us went into basically a tutorial with their customer so that understand all the steps involved?? Instead of complaining that customers don't know the difference, teach them what the difference is. Some will care and some will not. You will get orders from the ones that care and they will be happy with it.


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## Raspar (Oct 12, 2009)

It's a appreciation thing. Its hard when people can go to WallyWorld and buy sauder for cheap. Not sure I would want a client like that. I only do this as a hobby and will do a job to buy a new tool. But at least I know they are getting quality work even though they sometime complain about the price. My answer has always been I will build from scratch and you buy the Sauder. We will come back in 10years and see which one was worth it. There is room in this world for both but I prefer solid wood… Just my 2c.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Japanese construction is very labor intensive and requires a carpenter with extensive training. The high quality cedar needed for Japanese construction is pricey and becoming more difficult to obtain. All of this makes Japanese construction expensive. A traditional Japanese teahouse can cost in the range of two thousand dollars a square foot. A Japanese-style room is competitive in price with high-end Western construction. The advantage of a Japanese room is that for those who feel comfortable with the Japanese life-style, one room can have multiple functions as a living room, dining room, bedroom, guest room, and it does not require much furniture. Japanese architecture can also be adapted to Western needs. For those with an appreciation of the art of Japanese woodworking and who desire a structure of the highest quality, then a carpenter with the experience and skill of Hiroshi Sakaguchi is essential. Sakaguchi-san's custom furniture shares the beauty, strength, and endurance of his architecture and is competitive in price with high-end Western custom furniture.

I thought this might give you an idea at how to explain your pricing. Rand


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

I think you have people who also are just doing things a piece at a time. They really cannot afford a hand crafted dining table+coffee table+hutch+lamp and sofa tables and such all in one chunk. At the same time they aren't just going to sit on the floor and wait until they are wealthier.

Most of us built up our shops the same way. We maybe bought a good used table saw, but got some other stuff at harbor freight (clamps, chisels, blades, dust collectors, lathe etc) so that we were up and running. Then got better stuff as we could afford it. I think very few (if any) of us just got out the woodcraft catalog - and ordered a suite of Powermatic tools, and some Lie Nielson hand tools day one and cut a check.

We need to consider how much disposable income there is. I know I do not take credit cards- so you are asking people how much they have in their Checking Account to put into this right now. Some look at that price and say for the price of the table I can have a room full of furniture delivered from Ashley Furniture or Nebraska Furniture Mart by Next Wednesday 1 year no interest same as cash+ a Cabelas gift card…

This isn't to take away from the Original poster - because a corner cabinet for under 300 bucks is FAR FAR from being expensive - even by some Ashley furniture standards.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

The problem is that we have too much stuff made in China, Korea so on in the big Box stores that they sell cheap an is made of crap wood and most people can see the difference with well made with real wood.
I had the same problem years ago that is why what I make now is for family only and I don't charge for it.
Sorry buddy about loosing your time for some jurk that don't know better.


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## ollie1 (Aug 11, 2010)

I have been building furniture for others for 15 years, & doing home improvement for the same time frame. I charge $40 per hour & bill 50% up front with balance upon delivery for furniture or any job I can quote, such as crown molding, etc. for a given space. I don't advertise & have about 20 or so customers with word of mouth providing new customers. I have never been stiffed for payment & never had anyone complain about price. I have had a lot of customers voluntarily pay 100% up front. I won't act as their bank.


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

The thing that sucks a bout California law is that if you make built-ins (cabinets, entertainment centers, etc.) and install them, you must have a contractors license. Also, you can only charge (legally) 10% or $1000 up front, which ever is less. This is why it's important for customers to always hire licensed contractors, so they don't get stiffed. But with custom furniture and the likes, any craftsman can make it and charge whatever they want to up front.

And yes Res, a lot of people want something for nothing. Just like every body else has stated, most people these days have no clue what real (and good) furniture is…This is why making a living as a woodworker is very hard.


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## Gator (May 2, 2008)

This topic comes up a lot - and we all have different opinions on it. A hobbyist (myself) who builds mostly for friends, gifts, and the occasional cash job, will almost always have a different opinion than someone who does it for a living.
I have to agree with Barry and the others on this thought process.

This is my hobbyist opinion.

Most people asking for something to be built have no idea what is involved with building furniture. And I don't mean they are stupid, as it just something they are not properly educated on, sometimes even by the person "selling' the job. They don't know how much material costs, and they have no idea how much labor goes into it. 
Give them two or three scenarios for the build with different aspects for material, types of joinery, etc with a price for each *UP FRONT*. Everybody wants the solid wood furniture with the hand cut dovetail drawers, and the gold leaf inlay, but they just do not realize what that takes or would cost. Before the job starts you get a deposit and a signature on the contract to ensure you get paid. If the job involves stain or another finish, you should also take two pieces of the material, stain them and have the customer & yourself sign the back of each piece, you keep one and they keep one. CTB - (Cover Thye Butt) This way they can not say they are not paying because it is not the correct finish. Most people are great people, but if you leave a way for someone to get you, there are some that will, and some will do it just so they can brag to their friends how they did it. As sad as that is, it is reality.
In another sense, some builders don't realize they are "cheating" themselves when quoting work. You can not just count your labor. You have to depreciate your tools and include your overhead - these are your fixed costs that you encure just by getting up in the morning. Your tools will need replacing, saw blades, chisels will need to be sharpened, you will spend money on gas to go get your material, unless the wood fairy is back in business, and nobody has the lights in their shop on for free. I had a guy one time show me a really nice wood rack full of walnut and cherry boards, and was proud that he had approx. $4,000.00 in wood sitting there actlimating so if a job came up he could get right at it without delay. What he did not understand was he could be earning interest on his money in the bank, rather than looking at it every day just sitting there doing nothing for him. But some people have a lot more money than others and don't think or care about such things. I am not in this group, I am still trying to make enough money so i can retire and not have to eat straw and koolaide until I drop.
My real job is in a business that is almost as hard to make money at as wood working, and I do not envy the people who have to put food on the table everyday trying to make a living working with their hands for themselves. It is tough, and there are many that make a very comfortable living doing it. These are good business operators, and skilled craftsman. You have to look at it as a business, even if you are retired and looking to just pay for wood while playing at your hobby. You still have costs over and above your material that have to be considered, you cant work for nothing, or that coffeee you drink in your shop every morning costs you $20.00 a cup.

This is a topic that will spin threads for years to come, and have so many opinions on it.. but.. there are actually people out there that if they understand what is involved in the entire process of what they are asking for, or are actually involved in the design will gladly pay you for it, and actually want to show it off even more just because they were involved. And there are others that just dont care and want to pay as little as possible for it because they saw the same thing at Ikea for a lot less than we are asking to build it. It is up to us to do what ever we can to earn as much as we can for our work, without getting cheated. To do this we all have to work smarter, not harder.

Gator


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## Pop (Aug 6, 2007)

I do high end work and I do low end work. I do expensive work and I do cheap work. I do slow careful work and I do fast work. Here's the rule: " Quality, Price, Time = Pick 2 " That came from an advertising agency back when I was doing graphic design. It' correct. You can have any 2. Low end work when I get around to it.
That's cheap! High end work overnight. Bring bags of gold!

Pop


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## woodzy (Jan 24, 2011)

Actually minimum wage around these parts is $10.25 so you are literally underpriced. I find people are more than willing to over pay through their ears for garbage all the while trying and nickle and dime a craftman for this work. Good luck finding more appreciatrive customers.


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## Resurrected (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks for the advice all I been gone since posting and never expected this much help.

Sorry about the picture all. I will not point my clients here to LJ's. I have a photographer working on making my new business card and a brochure to hand out. He is hooking me up with a web designer good thing the photgrapher and I are friends. Were trading favors.

I did give him a material cost but only a rough estimate on hours. I said 25 hours to build. It took 20 ish. At 10 dollars an hour. I think I did well on the estiamte. As far as the statement sticking it to them means starting to charge a high hourly rate. Right now if you think of it I'm not even breaking even.


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## Jered (Sep 15, 2010)

I can understand charging less while you get going. I am expanding my product line and so I bid a job real low just because I wanted pictures of the new product. It is best to let the customer know "this is a special price" otherwise they will always feel they are spending just a little too much, no matter how low your bid is.


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## Resurrected (Jan 11, 2011)

*Colin* Oh yea I have said that.


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## Jack_T (Feb 6, 2010)

I understand your not pointing clients to go to Lumberjocks; that is similar to putting a statement in an advertisement or flier that says "See our Yellowpage Ad." You would be directing your clients to the competition. Never a good thing. But I still do not understand why you will not post pictures for us.

I am having trouble understanding how a simple corner shelf with a radius curve would take 20 hours to make. This is where a picture would be a great help. Something must be missing from your description to account for 20 hours.


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## Pop (Aug 6, 2007)

I went to a street fair several years ago and there was a booth set up with large kitchen toys. Sink, range, frig & even a washer/dryer. Neat design. I was looking at their stuff when I ask are the burners on the toy stove drain grates. The woman (not the woodworker) was hostile. "I'm not going to give you my husband's secrets.", she said. I was amazed at her answer and her approach. A couple of weeks later when wondering through a HD I saw the grates in pluming. 1. - There was no secret. 2. - Most woodworkers share ideas and methods with fellow craftsman. 3. - I was not interested in competing with their product, I was just asking a questions. 4. - If I had wanted to copy their product I can look it over, go home , draw it up and start production. The simple truth is "A great chef will give anybody his or her recipe". Rest assured Resurrected your project photos do not convey the secrets to a thermonuclear weapon.

Just a little advise from an old woodworker. On the other hand if you don't show us your photos, so be it. Their yours and thats your choice.

Pop


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

It's not that hard. You need a little schooling and then have to pass an exam (there are ways to get grandfathered in, but that's a whole other discussion). You can just take the exam if you have "X" amount of experience as a journeyman AND a recommendation from a veteran licensed contractor. A lot of it is really a big joke. The thing that really sucks is keeping everything legit with license fees, business fees, insurance and bonding, yada, yada, yada. Everything that adds to "overhead" which in turn increases the cost of the final products. There's all these rules you have to follow and all the while, you're the one responsible for everything while the consumer is the one "protected". It's really hard to chase down $$ owed to you, but if a customer is unhappy for whatever reason, they can file a complaint very easy and in some rare cases, you can lose your license. I understand in one sense because there are a lot of shady contractors and they make it hard for those who are honest and just trying to make a living.

This is one reason why I got out of that stuff and do custom woodwork. If I build cabinets (or built-ins) for clients now, I just build them. No install or delivery to job site is allowed….


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## nate22 (Jul 12, 2010)

First of all your not over priced. If you are then I am really over priced. You could do like I do. I tell my customers that my beds are going to cost more but they are sturdier and will last longer than if they bought it at a retail store like walmart or kmart. And lately I have been getting a lot of customers telling me that the bunk beds that you can buy at the stores are junk and they fall apart. So there are customer that will be willing to pay the price you just have to find them. Good luck with it.


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## jim1959 (Feb 14, 2010)

I learned hard way with pricing, as fairly new l have only so far in the past made dvd shelf units, book shelves, coffee tables.
But l give a price and stick with it has meant a few times loosing but l sleep better at night.
Just like last summer contractor put in my septic system, says he does many a year gave me a quote of
$ 12,285.00 was before HST combined tax came in here in ontario.

Quote $ 12,285.00 was April/2010 with GST 5% included lawyer doing our re- mortgage gave him deposit 
a lawyers check $ 1,200.00 for septic design and septic permit cost May/2010.
My wife and l signed papers in lawyers office 4 days prior to him getting deposit check.
Started work July/20/2010 was to have it finished May/30/2010 but took other jobs which July/01/2010 HST 13% came into affect when job was done he submitted bill to lawyers office for $ 15,130.00 in that $ 1,700.00 HST 
not the $ 585.00 old tax agreed to in april/2010.
Now won't warrantty his work even didn't get panel hook up to 200 amp service as he didn't buy electricial or plumbing permits in quote what should l do about $ 2,800.00 over charge he wrote on bill to lawyer l approved extra cost was a lie.

Sorry this has nothing to do with woodworking, but am hoping to get a few contractors here to tell me how they would have done this if there job.
I fear lein on my home so am thinking going to small claims court and need to if l can email someone to get advice, again sorry nothing to do with woodworking but am stressed think the above contributed to my 2 heart attacks 6 days apart Nov/2010 need advice if not l understand and am sorry if anyone is up set with post just hoping to find help[ what to do other details will give in email if anyone can give me advice.
email me at [email protected]

Thanks jim Ontario, Canada


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## Jack_T (Feb 6, 2010)

Jim, If you didn't agree to the price increase and he didn't finish the work per your written agrrement his in in breach of contract. Sue him for damages (money to complete all the work in the written contract) and for expungement (cancellation) of any liens he placed on your property. Also be sure to tell your lawyer, in writing, not to release or pay any money to the contractor. Your lawyer should be able to advise you how to proceed with your lawsuit. If you came to the lawyer by way of the contractor, to not consult him regarding the lawsuit. Find another lawyer and consult with the new lawyer. If the lawyer with whom you executed your mortgage does not follow your written instructions report him to his licensing authority. This is usually the court system itself, not the local bar association. Good luck.


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## Resurrected (Jan 11, 2011)

Actually my projects are not a secret. I don't wish to share my pictured projects. No gloating needed.

19X42 sides, 4 shelfs total on it so it was a pretty big corner shelf unit.

As I stated there was no plywood in this.

If you can do it in less than 20 I applaud you or maybe envy you cause you have tools I don't. Or bigger ones.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

30 bd ft of oak is a fair amount of wood and a fair amount of work. I used to work as a mechanic, and we had books to tell us how to estimate the cost of the repair. It was pretty good, as they had professionals writing them. We don't have that in the wood working trades, to my knowledge. But if you made something other than just shelves, you got robbed. Not to say you can't be a nice guy, but you can't give it away, or you'll end up selling your tools cheap, too, and taking up a different line of work. It sounds like you are new to the business of selling your work. Take this as a lesson, and adjust your prices accordingly. You're going to have to get hard-nosed about getting paid.

Then again, some people would grind their own grandmothers on a price. Again, you'll have to sort through the BS and make sure you get paid. If they think the price is too high, maybe they aren't your type of customer.

Some people try to grind your price as a matter of habit. Try to see through that, too. The worthy people here are giving you good fodder for that discussion with your customers.


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## Resurrected (Jan 11, 2011)

Actually I'm easing into the trade, so everyone know 10 dollars a hour does not cover the build.

Factors like gas, electric, consumables, Tool wear. All this and more are not accounted for.

I think 25 would be better myself but your lucky to get anyone to buy it then. When your just getting started.


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