# The Gulf Disaster



## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing anything on here about the oil spill in the Gulf. Surely you guys have something to say about this. As for me, I'm just shaking my head. The big oil company has failed us…..... AND, our federal government has failed us. Any thoughts?


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

I do feel guily that im not down there with my shovels,bag of rags SAWDUST.anything fricken old t shirts..I would love to hear obama ask for help from his followers like when he was running for office…we should be shoulder to shoulder waiting and cleaning up oil and wildlife as it comes ashore.and offshore..Surfing has been my church for 25 years and could not imagine the anxiety of waiting for the oil to come ashore..horrifying..The animals birds fish etc etc ..Are people should be all hands on deck..This is way bigger than government and business put that aside for know.Earth day is every day. I would be very interested in helping ..physically ,,financialy have not heard a peep how..


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## DrewM (Mar 10, 2010)

Widdle I agree with you 100%. Just wish I knew how to help.


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## hazbro (Mar 19, 2010)

De-regulation is a bitch. Both parties are dependent upon corporate monies and this is USA inc. in action. The companies that saw short term gains in "outsourcing" jobs are now dealing with the reality of having "outsourced" all the customers. But, some CEO's picked up some sweet bonuses selling the country down the river for short term stock rallies. Now we are starting from ground zero.

American innovation is on call once again.


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## woodman71 (Apr 19, 2009)

I agree to its time to clean up government as well as this oil spill.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Is there a solution? Maybe for future oil leaks but only after a long hall on this one.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

Is there any way for us to help?


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## rbterhune (Jul 31, 2009)

Sure, I have a few thoughts…I'm a geologist by trade and although mining is my thing I know how things go down in these situations. I've seen it, just on a smaller scale.

1. The U.S. needs oil so the government looks the other way as long as it gets what it wants and needs. The MMS failed to do what their primary task is…to regulate the oil industry and permitting. Ridiculous junk science investigations said an environmental impact from a leak would be minimal so they allowed BP, and who knows how many others, to drill without completing studies, without permits, and most importantly, without significant and tested contingency plans for cleaning up a large spill 5000' below the surface.
2. BP's oversight of Transocean was apparently non-existent. 
3. According to the forman (I think he was a forman) interviewed on 60 minutes, there were MULTIPLE isssues with the blowout preventer that were known in the days before the explosion, yet they were told to push forward…it's all about production.
4. Yes, the government must rely on the extensive knowledge of BP geologists and engineers to fix the leak, but the government should not have drug its feet with regard to placing the sand berms in the gulf…seems like this will be the best way to prevent contamination of the wetlands…who the hell needs to waste time with a study…it's obvious it will work better than doing nothing. The berms will be easier to clean and remove int he end.

Sorry for the rant…just seems like the news skips over these viewpoints and realities sometimes.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Big money buying politicians = no oversite and short cuts to disaster.


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## doordude (Mar 26, 2010)

Just clean up the mess, however long it takes. BP should cough up the money to make fishermen and others that make they're living around the ocean whole. and in the near time table, not like exxon 20 years later.
also i;d like to see media dog obama for weeks,months, like they did bush during katrina (doubt that would happen)for non performace the past 40 some odd days


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

20 years later, the people who lost all in Alaska divided up less than the CEO of Exxon makes in a year. Justice? There is none :-(


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

About a month or so ago I was watching "Rick's List" on CNN. He interviewed somone? who said this ENTIRE thing could have been prevented. Something called an Acoustic Something or other that could have been installed that would have Immediately done what they have now tried to do and failed. To install this thing would have been around $100,000.00 Dollars.

At the first sign of a problem this Acoustic thing would have, automatically, within a split second, shut everything down and Blown something into the well that would have Blocked any further Flow of oil.

There was a Bill before Congress to make this device MANDATORY on ALL Oil Rigs. BUSH Vetoed the Bill. I guess Him and his Dad and Cheney (Haliburton Industries) felt they weren't making enough MONEY Fast Enough.

Money? Today on the "Situation Room" they said that USA was spending 6 BILLION DOLLARS A DAY adding to the Nations Deficit of I believe $16 TRILLION DOLLARS! Can anyone here conceive of, or picture those kinds of Dollars???


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I *thought* this was all Bush's fault!

What does this thread have to do with woodworking?


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Dane - well, as of right now it really doesn't have a thing to do with woodworking. But, it could have a lot to do with woodworking and everything else before it's over. Think about it…. for one thing, what if a major hurricane hit the Gulf during this disaster? It could kill millions and millions of trees, wildlife, people, etc. And besides, since this thread is in the Coffee Lounge, I don't think it HAS to be about woodworking (but, like I said, it is). Thanks for your posts.


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## jackass (Mar 26, 2008)

*The disaster was completely driven by greed, and taking chances that "it won't happen to us", but it did. Thousands of lives have been changed, Businesses ruined and innocent animals killed. BP should be banned for ever drilling another well anywhere in the world. Here in Canada all we can do is sympathize, and we do.
Jack*


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

Support the resorts and businesses that are hurting. All my favorite trips to the gulf seem to just involve hanging out in air conditioning and going out to eat anyways.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

And I find it more than a little ironic that people who consume petroleum products (as in a computer and millions of other things) accuse those of greed who supply it to them. Go figure.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I often participate in political debates on other forums. One of the reasons I like LJ so much is that there (usually) are no debates or discussions about politics or religion or other controversial subjects. In general, we are just a bunch of guys and gals that like to talk about woodworking and we do most of it in a very positive and helpful way. That's refreshing.

All I will say is that it saddens me greatly to see this much destruction of our environment and of people's lives. I'll debate who is at fault and what should be done elsewhere.


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## webwood (Jul 2, 2009)

as a florida resident i must say we are a bit in shock - our environment is quite fragile and will be impacted for many years - alot of "i told you this would happen" going around


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

You are right Rich. When I started this thread I didn't mean for it to be political. I just asked for people's thoughts about what was going on in the Gulf. So… please guys, let's leave the government out of it on here. There are many to blame for what has happened and the slow response by our nation, but the main thing is that we need to find ways to help (like many have stated above). One thing I plan to do (along with the rest of my family), is to avoid any BP products. My son works for a company that rents heavy equipment. They go through a tremendous amount of fuel for their trucks and machines. Last week, he moved their fuel account from the local BP to a station about 100 yards down the road. That is one thing that the citizens of the USA can do, and must do.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

*Is there any way for us to help?*

Just wait - we'll get our chance to help pay for it, soon enough.


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

I saw a show where they said that avoiding BP gas won't do anything, they have too much out there in other areas to make any kind of avoidance work.

The money they are spending on this leak may just bankrupt them. However, if we stop buying there stuff, they no longer have the money to keep cleaning up, then it comes out of our taxes directly, instead of indirectly.


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## DAWG (Oct 23, 2009)

I agree with richgreer I have some very strong feelings about what's going on in our country and our world today. I know this is the right place for a topic like this, but remember these subjects can get very heated and I've already seen alot of controversy over the block button on this site. I'll save my opinion for another place.


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## Sailor (Jun 17, 2009)

I live in southeast Alabama right near the Florida line, about 1hr and 20min to the coast. I have a sailboat down there in the water and I really hope that things don't get bad in my local waters (Panama City Beach). I definately feel for the people who are currently affected and will be affected.

As for where to pass the blame, how would we know the truth? I take things like this as, "Well it happened, not sure how, but let's deal with it and fix it".

I pray for our country and our government, and I think more people should. This thing is hurting our economy even more at a time when we really need some relief.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

It was an accident. A freak of backup systems unbelievably all failing. Jeeezzz. I grow weary of the childish view that any successful company is automatically out to do harm. Scratch that…Its not childish…It's bigoted.


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## NH_Hermit (Dec 3, 2009)

To answer jj's original question, here's a link on how to help, and thank you for caring.

http://dailynightly.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/04/4463945-disaster-in-the-gulf-how-you-can-help

and yes, there's a lot of blame (and plenty of blamers) here to go around from corporate greed to sex, drugs, and rock'n roll inside the MMS, to those of us still driving gas guzzlers or have not insulated our homes and workshops well (See Dane, this thread does have something to do with woodworking).

Do I see anything wrong with this topic being discussed here? No really, as long as the discussion is about how we can use our meager talents and skills to help ourselves and our neighbors.

Personally, I won't have Obama's job for all the tea in China.


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## waxman (Apr 22, 2009)

I live about 15 minutes from the gulf (near Destin, Fl) and I have talked with alot of fishermen who feel that their way of life is slowly slipping away. they put on a brave face but they se it as being many years before we get the gulf back to what it was. My wife and I are going to the beach today to capture memories of it beauty before it is gone.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

This is a terrible disaster, to be sure and there are so many accusations thrown out by the media via "experts" of various mentality and political levels and the purely insane. What and who caused this disaster is completely unknown at this time and speculation stopped so that more time and energy should be spent on cleanup and restoration of livelihoods, we can play the blame game later. I am curios about the business setup in this disaster; As I understand it, BP does not own the rig, but rents it from Transoceanic (the owners) and Halliburton made the Fail Safe equipment. My question is; if you lease or rent a car, house, boat or airplane are you responsible for the lease/rent item's upkeep, maintenance or condition? We seem to have focused on blaming everything on BP to draw attention away from embarrassing other culprit? I feel there is a lot more to this than we will know or never find out. 
In another heated blame, Toyota was trashed because of a gas pedal defect - but now we (some of us) learn that Ford, GM and Chrysler have recalled millions of their vehicles with the same problems? - maybe they all use toyota gas pedals?


> ?


?. Well that's OK, it's just they way to blame one for all!
Our greed to want all the oil we can get - and by any means, has bitten us in the butt, just like another scenario where financial institutions were allowed to sell ridiculous loans which were the cause of the money crisis we are in now. WE donated billions to save their butts and they are now back to business as usual after millions lost their 401k's and savings. The whole nation is now ruled by greed and corruption, just wait until you hear about fraudulent claims which are going to be made against BP for money - even the "poor" man in the street sees it as an opportunity to cash in. Remember Katrina and all those freebie credit card frauds? Maybe we will see ads on TV by Lawyers asking people to join a class action suit against Oil Companies or maybe just Oil itself? - remember the tobacco suit?, who made a fortune out of that and nobody else got a cent???.
In our political system we allow lobbyists to purchase favorable decisions, entice the electorate and dictate to the Government. Lobbyists should be banned and the Government should return to "We the People".

Clearly this Oil Spill is off immense proportions and my heart goes out to the "genuine" businesses and folks who will suffer because it happened. 
WE need to change from feeding dishonesty and corruption, check our greed at the door and elect only people who won't sell us down the river.
Like someone said "let's go down to Gulf Coast and lend a hand to cleanup and restore" - THAT"S THE REAL AMERICAN WAY.


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## jackass (Mar 26, 2008)

*Miles125
My use of the word greed was not for the necessity of petroleum products and my use of same, miles125. The greed was for BP to maximize their profits without the proper safeguards in place to prevent the most devastating oil spill in history. It was no accident, give your head a shake and get with the program. BP knew the risks when they started and failed miserably to prevent the disaster. I will probably always use oil products, and so will you. My heart goes out to all affected and infected, and even your distorted assessment of the mess. I worked for a big oil company many years ago, and back then they were aware of spills. They were dealt with properly. BP hasn't.
Jack*
PS Roger Clark, I think has said it all very well.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks waxman. I think we want to hear from the people like you that are on the coast and are having to deal with this mess.

As for the media coverage about the Gulf, I think that FOX has done the best job so far. I know that a lot of people don't like FOX News, but they have been trying to get answers from BP and can't get anything. BP has ordered all of their employees not to be talking to the media, or they will be fired. If you want to see a news anchor show his true feelings, watch Shepherd Smith during the week (3:30 - Studio B and 7:00 - The FOX Report. Shep was raised in the area and you can see his feelings about the situation very clearly.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

It's a shame and the folks that live down there have already been hit hard. This is another Katrina and appears to be surpassing even that disaster. In these tough economic times all I can think of is how many more folks are going to be left in dire straights.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

Thank you hermit for the link..on how to help..
Let's help the enviorment now and blame later..


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I'd like to make one comment about oil:










I always thought she was beautiful.

Sorry. That's all I got.


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## CampD (Nov 8, 2008)

As far as this thread being in a wookworkers site, heck yeah!! I like sea food!,...cant concentrate on a empty stomach ya know. This is going to effect the fishing industry for quite some time, and my addiction to seafood!
(well 2nd to my tool addiction).
As far as politics, I have waaaaaaay to many comments concering that subject and will refrain…...

One thing I will say is this, the technology that was in place to stop this desaster was way outdated,


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

There seems to be a bit of common sense lacking in the argument to avoid BP and to boycott their product. How can a company be held financially responsible if they are forced into bankruptcy due to people no longer buying oil from them?

Also there has been a specific tax placed on oil since the early 90's. This money was to be put into a trust to cover clean up and management of situations like these. I am sure that money has be "appropriated" for other uses though.

All we can really do to help is to try and get this oil monkey off our backs. We are to addicted to cheap oil and fuel. It is just a shame that a company has to go to such drastic measures and extreme environments in order to feed out insatiable appetite. We are as guilty as anyone.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

I have been so fed up with the media regarding news/sensations/lies thrown around, you'll understand how I feel in my previous post. I read all the posts and took notice that juniorjock thought Fox news was the most trusted.
So I have taken a look at Fox news and it has made me very angry.
The discussions and statements were INSANE and VERY OFFENSIVE.
As many of you know I was born in England and am technically a dual national of the US/UK. The US and UK have been budies ever since a squabble over some tax rebels went their own way! The US, by a large majority is regarded as "family" and not so much a foreign country.
When WW2 started FDR found a way to get supplies and weapons to the UK by undercover methods, which left the British to hold off ALL the AXIS, Germany, Italy and Japan ALONE for 2 YEARS, which gave the US time to get ramped up because FDR knew the US was next on the list. When the US was attacked (even though Churchill had warned beforehand from intelligence), aid, materials and troops were sent to the UK in 1942 and WE joined together to defeat the AXIS. The UK has always been the US's very best friend, supporting the US in almost everything, and UK troops dying for it. 
So what has FOX got to promote? Hey, let's have a British flag burning session on TV, and why not have a panel of idiots saying that "we" should drive BP out of business and ban foreign countries from doing business in the US.
I was very offended with this trash from Fox news. Is this what we think and do to Friends?. Everyone would go ballistic if I put out a video of the burning of the US flag. At my house I have 2 flag poles, for the US and British flags to fly with each other - that emphasizes the way I feel.

I am very saddened to see one of my flags trashed and spat upon. The British people are honest and when one of their registered companies, says it will make everything right, then you can just bet that they will. British CEO's have not learned to double talk yet, honour is still something of value to them.

Sorry about this post, but it really upset me to see how low we would stoop.
God Bless America and it's little cousin too (UK)


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## langski93 (Dec 31, 2008)

I was enjoying the fact that the topic was not appearing on this website. I'm a news junkie and this place is a pretty good refuge from the rest of the world. With that said, along with the anger, confusion and sadness that is reflected in the posts, there is also wisdom, common sense, and a bit of humor . Its another reason why woodworkers should rule the world. I think Richgreer has it just about right.

langski93


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## rbterhune (Jul 31, 2009)

Roger…All news in the U.S. is biased in some way. Fox is the worst…not really even news, more like opinions. MSNBC is the next worst…CNN is o.k.

The British are, as you mentioned, more like family…don't let the idiots at Fox change your mind on that.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I'm with *Langski* ... I get enough politics outside of the shop.

The situation in the Gulf is an unmitigated disaster, and a real tragedy for the people there. As with any other disaster, the effects will be felt by all of us for a long time to come. I do find it amusing that one poster was able to lay the blame squarely on the previous administration based on an interview they heard a month ago with someone whose name they could not remember who was talking about a device they couldn't recall the name of.

There will be plenty of time to place blame later … right now, we need to focus on getting the thing plugged and get the mess cleaned up.


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## rbterhune (Jul 31, 2009)

The Gulf situation is not a political issue, but the media and political types are making it that way. Oil companies don't run the way they do because of one administration or another. They run the way they do because we all use oil…and ANY administration will do whatever it takes to satisfy that need.

Everyone is correct however, this is not a place for this sort of discussion. I will say no more on the topic.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Yes, it is a disaster. Should our government be involved…..keep in mind they screw up everything they touch. This mess is screwed up enough we are going to be victims of it for years.
I'm just getting sick and tired of everytime a blob of oil washes up on a beach, there has to be 15 news reporters with cameras there to report it. Seems like the news media has to always keep stirring the pot.
There, I feel better now.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I can't seem to fnd a link to the 60 Minutes segment that interviewed a survivor from the oil rig. Seems odd they would not have it available with everything else in their archives.

This disaster was not only preventable, it was predictable according to the survivor. They knew they had defective equipment on the sea floor that should have been replaced. They also had a damaged seal. Parts of it came up in the mud from the drilling. That sould have been replaced. They skipped steps in the capping process because "big wigs" were coming on board the next day or two and wanted to be done for the party. They got a party all right. A much bigger one than they anticipated.

BP lobbied against a better blow out preventer as not necessary and too expensive. It is not used today.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Overall, I've been very disappointed in the "rush-to-judgement" mentality in the reports I've read and seen. At least once a day, some politician (including the prez) thumps a podium and demands that BP be "held accountable". Has there been any indication that they're trying to avoid responsibility?? From what I've heard, they've already made payouts in the tens of millions, and will soon make more.

The latest capping attempt seems to be working, but the media seemed awfully quick to pronounce it a failure when the flow didn't stop as soon as they got it positioned. I guess that they missed the parts about the relief valves being used to control the buildup of ice crystals which caused the first cap to fail. I'm also a little annoyed by the media reports giving us a few lines about the capping and then several paragraphs about damage to "pristine" beaches, marshes, and wildlife. It's all important, but it's two different stories.

As a former nuclear engineer, I've been involved in a few accident investigations, and they take time. You need to construct a timeline, determine who made which decisions, and when and why they were made. Only then can you determine who screwed the pooch.

The pooch was well amd truely screwed here, but only a detailed investigation will identify the responsible party(ies) - not a bunch of grandstanding politicians holding premature hearings.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Now, now Roger. I didn't say most trusted, I said that FOX News has done the best job of reporting (in my opinion). I also said that I know that a lot of people don't like FOX News, and I don't blame them one bit. Most of their daily programs are OP-ED oriented and I don't like that. And don't even get me started about Glenn Beck. But when you get a chance, try to watch the shows I suggested. They're on weekends too, by Shepard Smith doesn't do the weekend shows. I really think he is one of the best anchors on TV (again, just my opinion).

To be honest, I don't think the USA could survive without the UK and I don't think the UK could survive without the USA. We need each other that much. If I had seen what you saw on FOX News, I would feel the same exact way you feel about it. That's not what TV news is about. At least that's not what it used to be about.

I worked in the newspaper business for more than 30 years. I quit nine years ago. One week after 9/11. There were a lot of reasons I walked out like I did and the media's coverage of 9/11 was one of them. I went to my Mom's house to tell her I had quit. She started working in the newspaper business when she was a child and worked most of her adult life with the paper. She told me something that day that has stuck with me these past years. She said "The media makes their living off of other people's misery". How true is that!


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

It seems like everyone likes to link oil to fuel for motor vehicles. However, the next time you go to any store like Walmart, Kroger, etc., stop and look at how many containers are made from plastic which is a petroleum product. When I was a kid in the 50's, containers were glass and many kids got money for school clothes and supplies from picking up glass soft drink bottles and getting the deposit from the local store. Also, it tickles me when car manufacturers talk about their little cars that get 30 mpg. I had a 1986 Buick Park Avenue (read full size car) with a V-6 that got 31 mpg! Wish I had kept it! In contrast, my 1995 Escort 4-cyl. only got 26 mpg on exactly the same route.
Just before the blow-out, didn't Obama say it was OK to drill off the Atlantic coast?


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## majeagle1 (Oct 29, 2008)

*juniorjock* .................*The media makes their living off of other people's misery. How true is that!*

Your Mom was Sooooooooooooo right ! How true but also so sad it is….............

I don't care to comment any further on the "Gulf" subject only because there isn't enough time or room within this site to vent/rant like I feel like sometimes. Having said that, this situation / mistake is one that could have and should have been prevented. I agree with many things that have already been said regarding blame and accountability, but that needs to be addressed on the sideline and has the potential to become way to political. What needs to be done *right now* is to put 100% focus on the cleanup of the environment of the gulf, in conjunction, do everything possible to stop the oil flow. 
Time will tell if BP is truly telling all the truth and also if they will be "fully" accountable in the end.

As my first sentance implies, I really think that the medias need for sensationalism is also part of the problem with anything getting done. All of the blame and finger pointing puts people in a react / defense mode, instead of putting all of their efforts into the true issue at hand.

Not to say at all that the "truth" must come out and the complete story needs to be uncovered, it does and must. Let's put our complete focus on the actual issue at hand, then work the rest out.

And somehow, put the processes in place to where this can NEVER happen again…..... a lesson hopefully learned, but at what an enormous cost to so many!

OMHO & 2c worth


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## jackass (Mar 26, 2008)

*rbterhune,
Canadians are like family too, don't forget that either.
Jack*


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## bigjoe4265 (May 16, 2010)

Anyone know what happened with Kevin Costner's centrifuge device? I saw him briefly on an interview about a week ago, and haven't heard anything since. Not that I'm a Costner fan, far from it, but at least it's American ingenuity.

Bigjoe


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Well stated Sawkerf. If all the politicians running their mouths about this are so smart, how come they don't run down their in their taxpayer paid jets and "shut the damn thing off"


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Howie -

Another one that really got to me were the cries that the government "step in" and "take over". That Coast Guard admiral said it best when he replied "And do what?" Capping off oil wells isn't one of the government's core competencies anywhere - let alone at 5,000 feet under water.

I gotta wonder if BP wasn't hoping that the gov't WOULD take over - and own the problem from then on. - lol


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*jackass,*
Yes, right, Canadians, Ausies and Kiwis are too. The best real friends the US has.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*rbterhune:*, *juniorjock*
Thank you for your kind words. We truly do not know real story, only media hype trash.

I was thinking this afternoon that usually large corporations who could have to pay out a lot of money in compensation etc. take out insurance (re-insurance) so that if they get landed with a big liability bill, then the insurance may cover some or all of it. Wouldn't it be strange if BP has some such insurance policy with *A.I.G.*??? 
Now how much did we give to bail out AIG? Something to think about that may not be far fetched.

What bothers me the most is that the media and these political vultures promote the view to outside countries that we (US) are insane, stupid, arrogant and untrustworthy while looking for every way to to cheat and steal.
This is as I see it is America's biggest problem, media generated "state of the Nation" which often horrifies our friends and allies and provides fodder for our enemies to feed on. 
The oil spill is indeed an unprecedented disaster, it is a time for a clear determined head and for sleeves to be rolled up instead of tongues.

To quote an English saying: *Make sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth into gear.*


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

bigjoe, that separator failed immediately. It more than likely is a device made to separate already-refined oil from water, like we used in the Navy. That is a way different substance from crude oil. You've got everything from tar to methane in crude oil. Nice try, Kevin, but no workee.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Many Guardsmen and civilians have been working hard on the cleanup effort. There are hundreds of boats helping cleanup the ocean. Things are getting done.

These are the sites for each states volunteer programs:
Mississippi
Louisiana.
Florida
Alabama


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*The Dane:*

I can't tell you how pleased I am that I was able to bring a little *"amusement"* into your otherwise Boring Day.

If you don't mind…..The next time you Quote Me? Would you please use my Real Name … it's* "RICK"! *not *"one poster"!*

Thank you, ever so Kindly.

Rick: *xoxoxo*

PS: You need not reply. I'll be leaving now. As you so wisely put it…"What does this thread have to do with woodorking." "I'll have my *COFFEE* black, to go please."


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm not sure how accurate this is, but give it a shot. It will show you how large the spill is compared to the region you live in.

http://www.ifitwasmyhome.com/


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

Juniorjock:

Thanks for the link to the website. Puts some measurements on the size and proportion of this event.

My turn to check in: First, the media. Shameless propagandists! CNN. MSNBC. Fox. NPR. NBC. ABC. CBS. AP. Reuters. Doesn't really matter. They all have a political bias in their news reporting. It is part of the deal. You have to pick the bias you like best, and go to it. I find myself switching betwee the first four mentioned, simply because the spin from these four is always different. Sometimes, radically so.

Second: BP. Poor Bastards. Just doing what ALL International Oil Companies are doing. Except… they had the misfortune of being the company that had THIS happen. I'll bet you that all of companies that have off shore deepwater rigs (except for BP) said the following a) it was bound to happen eventually, and b)breathed a deep sigh of relief that it "wasn't our rig."

Third: Blame the consumer, blame the oil company, blame the oil industry, blame the environmentalists, blame the Federal Government, blame Haliburton or Schlumberger, blame Bush 41, Bush 43, Obama, blame Radical Islamic Terrorists: Doesn't really matter: All of them hand a hand in this. What are we gonna do about and what happens in the future is what is important at this point.

Fourth: Agrees that boycotting BP doesn't solve anything. If they go broke, the Federal Govt will have to pay to clean it up. If they survive and pay off every ounce of damage done to the environment, they might become the poster child for manning up and taking care of business… although they did it all too late. But I guarentee that a boycott will have little effect on this one. I'd just as soon they survived to take care of business!

Fifth: The litany of mistakes that caused that accident are repeatable but preventable in the future. Let's make sure that these mistakes are cured forever. It won't prevent other mistakes, but it will prevent this one.

Sixth: It effects us all. We all contributed; we all need to help solve the problem. Politicizing and finger pointing won't solve THIS problem. We have to buck up and get it together to fix thise one.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

*Roger Clark*:

I'm pretty sure that BP is self-insured.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*Uncle_Salty;*
Thank you. Your post is the most level headed response on this subject to date. Again, *thank you* for making sense of all this mess.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Cleanup is going to be some job, a company from Quebec Canada offered a kind of foam that could cleanup pretty good but I guess they are not listening.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*Neil*
I do hope you are right, else there might be a situation where WE pick up some of tab. I used to work in the insurance industry and can assure you that insurers do insure themselves against big payouts. It always makes me cringe when you hear about xxxxx insurance company saying they paid out millions on, say, hurricane damage. The truth is they only paid out a small amount from *their* funds.
I can see that many attempts at fraudulent compensation claims will be made (eg Katrina) and that the media will demand that all claims must be met regardless if they are founded or not - you know how that works. If people were above that sort of thing, I'm sure claims will be dealt with responsibly. I guess we are in for a test of honesty, but logic hasn't done well so far.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

After thinking about it, I guess an all-out boycott of BP wouldn't be the best thing. But, doesn't that mean that we end up paying for the clean-up anyway - buying from BP or from our tax dollars?


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## Eli (Mar 3, 2010)

Maybe I missed it, because I only glanced through, but did you ever admit that this post was tremendously political and had no relevance to woodworking. I don't care, but at one point you tried to say it was somehow relevant. Then you said you didn't want politics, just people's feelings on the matter. What did you expect? "It makes me sad." "I'm angry." This just seems like trolling to me. "So how about this controversial topic? I'm not trying to be political. I'm just sayin'. Controversy." How weird that people started attacking the government, then the oil industry, big businesses, the media, consumers. It's like some sort of political discussion. But, like you said, you just asked about feelings.

Eli


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks for the post Eli.


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## Eli (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks for the thread, JJ.


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## Eli (Mar 3, 2010)

My post and my tone were uncalled for. I apologize.

Eli


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## baller (Nov 14, 2008)

couple bits of information to maybe get anyone already on this thread more interested/involved in what's happening….BP ceo (and several others) as well as members of Goldman Sachs dumped Major stockpiles short before this happened….also, in BP's own investigative report (i think p 37?) they even say someone had tampered with the hydraulics. I'M SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THE WHITE WASHES, AND PEOPLE BELIEVING THEM! don't wait to pay attention/participate til the next disaster effects You! start now, and spread the word…we are amidst The People's revolution, around the world…thanks for listening =p


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*Just the Facts*
The Deepwater Horizon was a floating oil drilling platform - a fifth-generation, ultra-deepwater, dynamically positioned, column-stabilized,semi-submersible Mobile Offshore Drilling Unit (MODU). The platform was 396 feet (121 m) long and 256 feet (78 m) wide and could operate in waters up to 8,000 feet (2,400 m) deep, to a maximum drill depth of 30,000 feet (9,100 m).[3] Press releases from *Transocean* state the platform had historically been used for deeper wells, including the deepest underwater gas and oil well in history at 35,055 feet (10,685 m) in 2009.[4] The $560 million platform was built by *Hyundai* Heavy Industries in South Korea and completed in 2001.[5] It was *owned by Transocean*, operated under the *Marshalese flag* of convenience, and was under l*ease to BP* until September 2013.[6] At the time of the explosion, the Deepwater Horizon was on Mississippi Canyon Block 252, referred to as the Macondo Prospect, in the United States sector of the Gulf of Mexico, about 41 miles (66 km) off the Louisiana coast.[7][8][9] In March 2008, the mineral rights to drill for oil on the Macondo Prospect were purchased by BP at the *Minerals Management Service's lease sale.[*10] The platform commenced drilling in February 2010 at a water depth of approximately 5,000 feet (1,500 m).[11] At the time of the explosion the rig was drilling an exploratory well.[12] The planned well was to be drilled to 18,000 feet (5,500 m) below sea level, and was to be plugged and suspended for subsequent completion as a subsea producer.[11] Production casing was being run and cemented (*Halliburton*) at the time of the accident. Once the cementing was complete, it was due to be tested for integrity and a cement plug set to temporarily abandon the well for later completion as a subsea producer.

*Pre-spill risks and precautions*
Offshore drilling rigs are large, complex, mechanical operations that operate in conditions subject to both human error and adverse natural conditions.Minerals Management Service records show that since 2001, there have been 69 offshore deaths, 1,349 injuries and 858 fires and explosions in the Gulf of Mexico. There were 39 fires or explosions on offshore oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico in the first five months of 2009, the last period with statistics available.
In February 2009, BP filed a 52 page exploration and environmental impact plan for the Macondo well with the *Minerals Management Service* (MMS), *an arm of the United States Department of the Interior that oversees offshore drilling.* The plan stated that it was "unlikely that an accidental surface or subsurface oil spill would occur from the proposed activities".n the event an accident did take place the plan stated that due to the well being 48 miles (77 km) from shore and the response capabilities that would be implemented, no significant adverse impacts would be expected. The Department of the Interior exempted BP's Gulf of Mexico drilling operation from a detailed environmental impact study after concluding that a massive oil spill was unlikely. In addition, following a loosening of regulations in 2008, BP was not required to file a detailed blowout plan.
The BP wellhead had been fitted with a blowout preventer (*BOP-Halliburton*), but it was not fitted with remote-control or acoustically-activated triggers for use in case of an emergency requiring a platform to be evacuated. It did have a dead man's switch designed to automatically cut the pipe and seal the well if communication from the platform is lost, but it was unknown whether the switch was activated. _Regulators in both Norway and Brazil generally require acoustically-activated triggers on all offshore platforms, but when the Minerals Management Service considered requiring the remote device, a report commissioned by the agency as well as drilling companies questioned its cost and effectiveness. In 2003, the agency determined that the device would not be required because drilling rigs had other back-up systems to cut off a well.
*Pre-spill problems and warnings*
There had been numerous previous spills and fires on the Deepwater Horizon; the Coast Guard had issued pollution citations 18 times between 2000 and 2010, and had investigated 16 fires and other incidents. The previous fires, spills, and incidents were not considered unusual for a Gulf platform and have not been connected to the April, 2010 explosion and spill.he Deepwater Horizon did, however, have other serious incidents, including one in 2008 in which 77 people were evacuated from the platform when it listed and began to sink after a section of pipe was accidentally removed from the platform's ballast system.
Internal BP documents show that BP engineers had concerns as early as 2009 that the metal casing BP wanted to use might collapse under high pressure.[25] In March, 2010, the rig was experiencing problems that included drilling mud falling into the undersea oil formation, sudden gas releases, a pipe falling into the well, and at least three occasions of the blowout preventer leaking fluid. According to a report by 60 Minutes, the blowout preventer was damaged in a previously unreported accident in late March, and BP overruled the drilling operator on key operations. BP declined to comment on the report.[26] The American Bureau of Shipping last inspected the rig's failed blowout preventer in 2005
On March 10, 2010, a BP executive e-mailed the Minerals Management Service that there was a stuck pipe and "well control situation" at the drilling site, and that BP would have to "plug back the well. A draft of a BP memo in April warned that the cementing of the casing was unlikely to be successful. *Halliburton*, a week after the explosion, said that it had finished cementing 20 hours before the fire, and that it cemented the Macondo well but had not set the final cement plug to cap the bore as "operations had not reached a stage where a final plug was needed". A special nitrogen-foamed cement was used which is more difficult to handle than standard cement.
In late April, 2010, Adrian Rose, a vice president of Transocean, Ltd., said that workers had been performing their standard routines and had no indication of any problems prior to the explosion.However, preliminary findings from BP's internal investigation released by the House Committee on Energy and Commerce on May 25 indicated several serious warning signs in the hours just prior to the explosion. Equipment readings indicated gas bubbling into the well, which could signal an impending blowout.
The fire aboard the Deepwater Horizon reportedly started at 9:45 p.m. CDT on April 20, 2010. According to Transocean executive Adrian Rose, abnormal pressure accumulated inside the marine riser and as it came up it "expanded rapidly and ignited".According to interviews with platform workers conducted during BP's internal investigation, a bubble of methane gas escaped from the well and shot up the drill column, expanding quickly as it burst through several seals and barriers before exploding. Rose said the event was basically a blowout. Survivors described the incident as a sudden explosion which gave them less than five minutes to escape as the alarm went off.
At an April 30 press conference, BP said that it did not know the cause of the explosion. Transocean chief executive Steven Newman described the cause as "a sudden, catastrophic failure of the cement, the casing or both." The heavy drilling mud in the pipes initially held down the gas of the leaking well. When managers believed they were almost done with the well, they decided to displace the mud with seawater; the gas was then able to overcome the weight of the fluid column and rose to the top. The explosion was followed by a fire that engulfed the platform. Video of the fire shows billowing flames, taller than a multistory building, and a captain of a rescue boat described the heat as so intense that it was melting the paint off the boats. After burning for more than a day, Deepwater Horizon sank on April 22, 2010. The Coast Guard stated to CNN on April 22 that they received word of the sinking at approximately 10:21 am.
*Survivors*
According to officials, *126 individuals* were on board, of whom *79 were Transocean* employees, *six were from BP*, and *41 were contracted*; of these, 115 individuals were evacuated. Most of the workers evacuated the rig and took diesel-powered fiberglass lifeboats to the M/V Damon B Bankston, a workboat that BP had hired to service the rig. Seventeen others were then evacuated from the workboat by helicopter.Most survivors were brought to Port Fourchon for a medical check-up and to meet their families. Although 94 workers were taken to shore with no major injuries, four were transported to another vessel, and 17 were sent to trauma centers in Mobile, Alabama and Marrero, Louisiana.Most were soon released. When the blowout occurred, 4 BP and Transocean executives were on board the platform for a tour of the rig, maintenance planning, annual goals review, a "Drops" safety campaign, and to congratulate the senior staff of the rig for 7 years of operations without a lost time incident (MMS reports show a lost time accident occurred 2008-03-06 on a service vessel at a lease being worked by the Deepwater Horizon, in preparation for a crane operation under control of the Deepwater Horizon); they were injured but survived. Lawyers for some survivors of the blast claim that their clients were kept in boats and on another rig for 15 hours or more before being brought to shore and when they did get to shore, "they were zipped into private buses, there was security there, there was no press, no lawyers allowed, nothing, no family members." They were then driven to a hotel under escort, secluded at the hotel for hours, questioned by company consultants and investigators and then given a form to sign before being released. These claims are denied by Transocean.
[edit]Missing and presumed dead
Initial reports indicated that between 12 to 15 workers were missing; reports soon narrowed the number of missing to nine crew members on the platform floor and two engineers. The United States Coast Guard immediately launched a massive rescue operation involving two Coast Guard cutters, four helicopters, and a rescue plane. Two of the cutters continued searching through the night. By the morning of April 22, the Coast Guard had surveyed nearly 1,940 square miles (5,000 km2). On April 23, the Coast Guard called off the search for the 11 missing persons, concluding that "reasonable expectations of survival" had passed. Officials concluded that the missing workers may have been near the blast and unable to escape the sudden explosion.
The 11 men killed in the explosion were: Jason Anderson, 35, Midfield, Texas; Aaron Dale Burkeen, 37, Philadelphia, Mississippi; Donald Clark, 34, Newellton, Louisiana; Stephen Curtis, 39, Georgetown, Louisiana; Gordon Jones, 28, Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Roy Wyatt Kemp, 27, Jonesville, Louisiana; Karl Klepping, 38, Natchez, Mississippi; Blair Manuel, 56, Eunice, Louisiana; Dewey Revette, 48, State Line, Mississippi; Shane Roshto, 22, Franklin County, Mississippi; and Adam Weise, 24, Yorktown, Texas. *Jones and Manuel were employees of M-I-Swaco*, while the *other nine worked for Transocean*.
On the morning of April 22, 2010 (two days after the blowout accident), CNN quoted Coast Guard Petty Officer Ashley Butler as saying that "oil was leaking from the rig at the rate of about 8,000 barrels (340,000 US gallons; 1,300,000 litres) of crude per day. That afternoon, as a large oil slick spread, Coast Guard Senior Chief Petty Officer Michael O'Berry used the same figure. Two remotely operated underwater vehicles (ROVs) were sent down to attempt to cap the well, but had been unsuccessful.[38] Butler warned of a leak of up to 700,000 US gallons (17,000 bbl) of diesel fuel, and BP Vice President David Rainey termed the incident as being a potential "major spill." 
On April 22, BP announced that it was deploying a remotely operated underwater vehicle to the site to assess whether oil was flowing from the well. Other reports indicated that BP was using more than one remotely operated underwater vehicle and that the purpose was to attempt to plug the well pipe. On April 23, a remotely operated underwater vehicle reportedly found no oil leaking from the sunken rig and no oil flowing from the well. Coast Guard Rear Admiral Mary Landry expressed cautious optimism of zero environmental impact, stating that no oil was emanating from either the wellhead or the broken pipes and that oil spilled from the explosion and sinking was being contained. The following day, April 24, Landry announced that a damaged wellhead was indeed leaking oil into the Gulf and described it as "a very serious spill".

And that's the way it REALLY is.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Eli: DAMN GOOD FOR YOU!!! It takes a REAL MAN to do what you just did, 2 Posts Up. My Hat is off to you Sir!!

Roger: THANK YOU! As always you bring a sense of Reality to some of these ?? Posts! The "Acoustically Activated Trigger" were the "Words" I could not think of in my First Post here. They alone MIGHT have stopped this entire Tradgedy.

"And that's the way it REALLY is." I did NOT have a Complete Picture of this Incident until I read YOUR Account of the situation. Now I DO! It is TOTALLY & UNQUESTIONABLY, FULLY Acceptable to me! Thank You again!!

Regards: Rick


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