# Breadboard ends - loose tenons an option?



## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm planning on doing breadboard ends for the top of a blanket chest. The rest of the construction will be frame+panel joined with loose tenons. I'm wondering if loose tenons alone would suffice for the breadboard end. Designs I've seen usually are a combination of tongue and groove with ~3 tenons (i know there are other options as well, but this directions seems easiest and most secure right now).

I'm really just wondering how critical that tongue is, and can i make something of just as good quality using only loose tenons, like this:



obviously I'll leave wiggle room on the outer tenons to allow for seasonal movement. I may also pin them all with dowels (on the end piece).

what say you?


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## beckerswoodworks (Dec 26, 2009)

It should work fine as long as you allow enough room for movement. And you have to pin them wilth dowels or something on one side since you can't glue both.


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## RvK (Nov 22, 2009)

noob question; why can't you glue both?


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## Woodn88s (Sep 14, 2008)

To Jei'son
the reason you should not glue both is because the breadboard end of the table has the grain running the opposite direction of the main table top. The purpose of the tenons is to allow the main table top to expand and contract with the seasons. by gluing the tenon to both main table and the breadboard end the tenon can no longer slide in the breadboard end which will probably cause the top to crack.


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## dustbunny (May 18, 2009)

I did a bread board end cutting board. My local cabinetmaker guy showed me how to do it.
the end piece is only glued in the center, allowing the ends if the endpiece to expand contract.
You have to have a way to hold the end tight to the board- 
The center tenon can be glued and a tight fit. The two outside tenons should be snug in the thickness but be elongated toward the center and outside edge (width) of the board. 
To dowel holes in tenons- Put the endpiece in place and dry clamp the joint. Drill dowel holes through the board drilling through the center of the tenons. Take apart. Elongate the outside dowel holes in the tenons, parallel with the end joint.
Only glue the center tenon and dowel. The rest is left dry to allow for movement.
My cabinet guy suggested clear silicone caulk (thin coat) in the rest of the joint to "seal" it and still allow movement. That's what I did and it has held fine.
Or you could dovetail joint to replace the tenon. 
Hope this made some semblance of sense.

Lisa


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

i wouldn't do it with loose tenons because what the tongue does is keep the board flat as it expands across it while the tenons hold the two boards together as well as work to keep it flat. the problem with the loose tenons is that your outer two tenons will need to have side to side movement in their mortises. also since you don't have the tongue the edge of the board can still cup. T-Chisel did a really good video on his Bombe series. I'll see if i can find it


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

http://www.tchisel.com/bombe-secretary-videos.html

its episode 64. don't listen to the descriptions because they're all messed up.


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## chriswright (Nov 13, 2008)

What I've done with breadboard tops that are made of hardwood is rout a 1/8" or 1/4" (depending on the thickness of the top) slot in the top and in the end piece and put a spline in there. Essentially a long tenon or biscuit. It's a very strong joint and if you end the slots before the edges then you will have a nice straight joint on the front. I've used this joint on many occasions with no problems.



I hope the diagram helps.


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## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

thanks for the video lol - "you wanna just come along with ya shouldah plane - remembah? - and just gingahly approach it"

Yeah, I had a feeling the tongue/spline was needed the whole way through… I guess I'll just do it that way. I dont mind having the exposed joinery at the end either.

thanks all for the responses.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

In your example you have maybe 25% of the surface having a loose tenon. I'd rather have about 50% or more which would mean that the loose tenons are almost touching each other.

But thats the idea of a breadboard that everything can slide and still be tight.


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## dustbunny (May 18, 2009)

You don't have to have exposed joinery. Only cut your groove to 1/2" of the end of the board, and make your tongue 1/4" shorter than the groove on each end. Concealed and still able to move.

Lisa


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## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

yeah, I'll have to take a look at some examples and see how it fits with the aesthetics of the overall design.


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## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

karson - yeah, i see the point. that would be a whole lot of loose tenons, and then why not just do one continuous one…


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

There is no reason that you cannot use loose tennons for this application. Cut the mortises to the size of the loose tenons in your top and glue them in. Cut the mortise in the center of the breadboard to the size of the loose tenon and the two on the outside with a little play on both sides of your loose tenon. Glue the breadboard only to the center exposed loose tenon. Flip it over and drill a small stopped hole into the center of the other two unglued tenons. Drive in a bamboo skewer. This allows the top to move, keeps the ends tight and the bamboo flexes with the top movement. This is a bomber application for any top under 24". Never had a call back.


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## RvK (Nov 22, 2009)

Learn sumpin new ever'day *\o/*


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