# Fuji HVLP Turbine Systems



## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Anybody have experience with these machines?? The reviews at a variety of sources on the Web are stellar…

My question… The have Mini Mite series machines that feature a 3 turbine model, and the upgraded 4 turbine… The implied difference is if you are going to spraying latex paint, you need the 4 to give atomization to give the off the gun result… By I have also heard the 3 is enough with the paint succifintly thinned…

I don't mind spending the extra 150 if it presents a clear advantage. I don't like to thin paint o much, it kind of negates using high quality paint…

Thank you for any advice!


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## live4ever (Feb 27, 2010)

They're fantastic machines. I have the Minimite 4. If you care how loud the turbine is, then I suggest stepping up to their Q4 Pro or Gold or whatever they are calling it now. The Minimite is priced nicely but the tradeoff is the loudness. I use both the #3 and #4 tips for water-based finishes.

I'd recommend picking up an extra 2 or 3 cups with lids so you're not always washing out finish out of cups (and can switch to a cup with water for cleaning). Get the teflon-coated cups for a few bucks extra. Phelpsrefinishing is a good place to order all things Fuji HVLP.

I don't use my HVLP much for latex (I use an airless for that), but whether you have the 3 stage or 4 stage you'll need to thin with Floetrol. Floetrol wasn't readily available in my area until recently (HD started selling it).

If you're going to be spraying primarily latex (e.g. painting the house), get an airless sprayer for much less. If your primary use is finishes (poly, lacquer, varnish, stain) with very occasional latex use, then HVLP is right for you.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Live4ever, thanks for the feedback.. I don't latex much, but when it does come up, I HATE brush marks no matter how thinned of treated with Floetrol the paint is.. I am also tired or trying to get poly to lay down flat with a brush, and wipe on is tedious to build.. I think I will try the 4


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I am getting great results with a gravity feed HVLP gun. Amazingly affordable now, and really lays down a great finish with lacquer, poly, and shellac. I even have a dedicated gun for spraying stain. 
Woodcraft sells their woodriver gun for $40. Porter cable has a nice one for $100 that includes a regulator. 
They spray well with 35 psi at the gun. 
What used to take me three coats with lesser guns, I can now achieve with 2!


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I have the MM3 with the XT gun and can't fault it. I think for latex you can do it with the 2.0mm tip and needle set, even with the 3 stage turbine.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

A couple of things I would like to clarify.
Floetrol is not a thinner. Water is the only thinner for latex paint. Floetrol is an additive that chemically breaks the surface tension of the paint, allowing it to flow once it is on the surface of your project.

When spraying latex with HVLP the most important thing you can do is use a paddle mixer in a drill to shear the paint. The reason that airless systems spray latex so well is that they have a shearing blade in them that the paint passes through because the molecules in latex are spagetti and must be chopped up into smaller particles that will atomize better. Three minutes stirring with a paddle will do this for you.

With an average interior latex paint, thinned 10% with water, add two ounces of Floetrol, stir with a drill mixer, I have no problem spraying with a two stage HVLP. Also, if you are looking for a furniture quality finish, use a 1.5mm needle. 
And I feel I have to say this all too often…Latex is not a proper furniture finish.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Earl, how is latex not an appropriate finish? After sealing, priming, painting and adding a clear coat, you don't care for that, why??? Just curious


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

blarge - I said latex is not a proper furniture finish and you agree with me (by adding a clear coat). So what's your question?


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## ducky911 (Oct 6, 2010)

I have the minimite 4 and I have used it to paint 12 interior doors for my sons house. Latex paint thinned to 25 sec to 30 sec. It plan gets after it…it really moves the paint..per the manual put it down "wet like a lake". doors look like factory finish….there seems to be alot of talk about thinning latex , what I have found is it best to thin even with a four stage..

I also have a earlex 5000 and well I have jump through some hoops and got very good results…it no where near as nice and it is much slower.

I was worryed about the noise as I wear muffs even when using my table saw . Noise does not seem that bad and I do not even wear my muffs…it must be the pitch and you can set the turbine a ways away. So for me I am galad I save the money for the less quite model…it no where near as load as a router.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

earlex, I assumed you meant latex with a few clear coats was not considered "finished"... but yes, Latex Paint alone is not enough


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Latex paint used as a coloring agent then topcoated with a quality product works well, been doing it for years,


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

BLarge,
I've been researching the same thing recently as I want to switch to a turbine from a compressor system (small compressor). I like how the turbine is an all in one unit and doesn't require anything other than what comes in the box (except for needle sets in different sizes).

Noise isn't an issue for me, so I'm going for the minimite 4 with gravity gun setup. Most of my work is small boxes, so I don't need the quart cup, plus I'm used to spraying with a gravity gun. There's an adapter to change the gravity feed to the quart bottom feed if the need comes along.

During my own research I came across videos comparing the noise level of the mm4, super 4 and q4 pro. To me, the super4 isn't much quieter than the mm4 but the q4pro is. All 3 use the same 4 stage motor, so the only difference is the noise level. I've been very impressed with what I've found on the mm4.

I'll be buying with it the 6' whip hose, a #3 needle set, extra set of filers and the set of 5 lid gaskets and check valve tubes. My total on hvlp.net comes to $820.30. Not bad considering I paid $270 for my compressor and $281 for my current gun, and probably a well bit more on filters, air hose etc., so I don't mind paying for quality.

In regards to 3 stage vs 4 stage; the more power the better. Heavier finishes will flow better with less thinning. Well worth the extra money up front. If I were spraying latex I'd get the #6 needle set.

This was all my own research; fuji's site has a good amount of info there.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Nite,

Great input… I am going to buy the MM4 as well…. I take so much time and care to put together projects that are tight and polished, I am tired of worrying about hw much my finish job is going to diminish that final product..

Noise isn't much of an issue, I have robust hearing protection I wear in the shop anyway, and I intend to spray outside as much as possible…. Maybe my neighbors will be pissed… Lol

I will post again once I get… Can you as well?


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

I definitely will.

I doubt it will affect the neighbors much; from the videos I watched it sounds like a shop vac.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Nite, not a it fan on my neighbors on the West…. Sorry to hear this!!!

Thanks man, happy spraying


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

I Use a 4 stage Sherwin Williams turbine. Sherwin-Williams recommended Floetrol thinning agent. I found 20 percent Floetrol 80 percent PVA paint was great for me, even as a newbie I got great results. Take a look at my medicine cabinet project. I was wanting a Fuji turbine but the one I got was at a pawn shop at a once in a lifetime price.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Update for BLarge:
I just ordered my mini-mite 4. :-D
After doing some research, I found that my waterborne finish doesn't get along with aluminum cups.
So instead of the gravity setup I ordered the bottom feed gun. But since that one's aluminum as well I also ordered the teflon coated cup. But since most of my projects are small I also ordered the 3 mini cup set. I also ordered the whip hose, #3 needle set, extra filters for the turbine and parts kit.
A decent investment, but well worth it IMHO. I can't wait to start spraying with it.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Nite,

I'm excited for you!!! I will order mine come May, I can't spray inside so ill wait until the the weather permits… In the meantime I a improving my skills with thinned poly and a very nice brush… Lol….it's funny, am getting better and better at achieving a flat, beautiful finish…. But it still doesn't mean I'll skip a gun!


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Yeah I'm a couple weeks out from going out to the shop and spraying too. But I played with it in the kitchen a bit. Here's my first impressions (warning: very long):
Backstory (skip past this if you just want to read my impressions of the fuji):
For about a year I used a Qualspray QS-125WB from homestead finishing with my makita twin stack compressor. I also opted for the bigger 20 oz cup since it was to be my main spray setup. In that year I used the gun a lot, and it worked great, but the compressor would run a bit much for my preference on some jobs. Also, no matter the cup size, it's still a small detail gun and I wanted something full size so I could grow with it as my projects and skill set increase in scale. I could have gotten a bigger compressor and the full size QS-600WB gun. In fact, that was my plan for a while. But I started looking into turbines after comparing the cost of a new compressor plus the new gun. On top of that, I'm limited to 110 in the garage so the biggest compressor I could realistically manage is a 20 gallon 2HP. It probably would have worked fine, but space is an issue in my one car garage shop that I share with my pop (he uses about 1/4). A turbine takes up a lot less space than a new compressor. Being able to carry it to a jobsite if necessary is another plus.

So while researching turbines, I had all but settled on the earlex 5500 but didn't like the fact that it's a bleeder gun, only 2 stages and it's more of a lower mid level system. I subscribe to the "buy once, cry once" club so I went searching for a better system that was made to last. It was in the wood whisperer's review of the earlex 6900 where I first heard of the fuji systems so I researched those, along with apollo turbines (which ended up being out of my budget) and came to the conclusion that a fuji system was for me. It fit my budget, reviews were positive all around, and it's not made in an asian country (though some of the accessories are).

Once I was set on a fuji turbine, I then researched the different models, needle sets, accessories, etc. I originally wanted the gravity gun setup as it was what I was used to spraying with, but since my primary clear coat (crystalac super premium) is not recommended for use with aluminum cups unless they're coated, I went for the siphon cup. The siphon cup is also aluminum, but there's two accessories I added to take care of that issue. The first is the same cup but with a teflon coating. It wasn't too much for the stand alone cup (~$25), so I added one to my order. The other thing I also grabbed was the 3 mini cup set. It includes 3 250ml plastic cups and lids, and a lid that stays connected to the gun. It reminds me of the mason jar system the critter spray gun (the gun I learned to spray with) uses. Since 90% or more of my spraying is small projects this is the setup I'll be using the most.

So with the cup situation out of the way I looked into the three different models; mini-mite, super and Q series. They all feature the same turbines in 3 or 4 stage, but the super and Q series add noise reduction. After watching a noise comparison video, I decided on the mini-mite since it's about as loud as a shop vac which doesn't bother me at all.

When choosing between the 3 or 4 stage turbines I went for the 4 stage. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have. It was $134 more for the 4 stage, but I feel I got what I paid for. With a 4 stage I can spray a wider variety of finishes and the turbine won;t have to work as hard for my typical finishes, so hopefully that translates into a longer lasting system.

Rounding out my order, I added a few accessories. I got the cup parts kit, lids for the big cup, the whip hose and extra filters. I also got the #3 needle set. The #4 needle comes with the system, and according to the fuji manual, the #3 (1.0mm) and #4 (1.4mm) sets will handle most, if not all, finishing tasks. I might get the #2 (0.7mm) set for dyes depending on how the #3 handles them. I ordered from fuji direct as they ship from buffalo, so I'd have my goodies in 1 day. Everything came to just under $900. A new compressor would have been $500-$600, and the gun kit and extra needle from homestead would have been a bit over $300 with shipping, so I'm in the same ballpark either way. For my situation, I think I made the right choice opting for a turbine over a compressor system.

Sorry for the long intro; I'm excited and have 3/4 of a 2 liter of diet dew in my system.
Onto first impressions!

I placed my order on the afternoon of the 12th, it shipped on the 13th, and was in my hands on the 14th. Everything arrived in two well packed boxes.
Fit and Finish:
The turbine unit is very well built and hefty for its size. It's made of a pretty heavy gauge steel, powder coated in the world's most amazing color, blue. The handle is plastic, but certainly no lightweight. The filters are easy to replace when necessary, the switch is easily accessible and the unit uses a universal 3 prong power cable like those used on PC's. That's a plus in case the oem cord ever becomes damaged. The air hose fitting on the front doesn't feel cheap or flimsy either. This thing was built to last.

Not mentioned in the product description but included, was a bracket that screws onto the turbine body that holds the gun. It's pretty stout, so I doubt it will be breaking off any time soon. It holds the gun solidly and far enough from the handle that the turbine and gun can be carried together easily. The inclusion of the gun holder is a big plus for me.

The gun itself is also a quality piece of hardware. It's bigger than the QS-125WB, so handling it will take some getting used to. The grip feels great. It's covered in plastic insulate it from the heat the turbine generates. All the removable parts on the gun are finely finished and fit precisely where they're supposed to go. The standard quart cup is simple and sturdy, as is the lid locking mechanism. The teflon coated cup is identical aside from the teflon coating. I'll use this for larger jobs. Changing from the standard quart cup to the mini cup was easy except for the pressure tube. To change cup setups, I had to remove the tube from the gun, and that was the hard part. I was pulling pretty hard and it wouldn't come off the fitting on the gun. What worked was running the fitting under hot water for a couple of minutes and it softened the hose enough to where I could pull it off. Putting the tube from the mini cup lid was easy. I'll just have to remember the hot water trick for whenever I change back to the quart cup. I had to loosen the needle packing a bit as it was a bit tight feeling when squeezing the trigger.

The 25' air hose is big and heavy. I'm glad I bought the whip hose; I almost didn't after reading a few negative reviews on amazon saying it's flimsy. It certainly isn't. It's as well made as the rest of the components and in all honesty a necessity. I could not imagine spraying with just the regular hose.

The mini cup set is expensive (~$44) but pretty impressive in build quality. I was thinking the cups and lids would be flimsy plastic, but they're actually pretty heavy duty and made of thick hdpe. The lids have gaskets built in and have a nice grip so tightening them is very easy. Being that they're made of a heavy plastic, the cups won't bend or dent easily. I'm quite impressed by the build quality. When I first saw the lids I thought they looked quite close to the size of the hdpe jars I get from usplastic to store my finishes in. Sure enough, I tried the fuji lids on the usplastic jars and they fit like a charm. So if the need ever arises, I can use the 8oz usplastic jars in place of the fuji jars. Also, since the pickup tube is a standard nylon tube, I can get some tubing to cut and fit to the lid on the gun to accommodate bigger jar sizes, like 16 and 32 oz. I'll be sure to post more details on this mod when I do it.

So I'm pretty impressed with the fit and finish of this system. So far I think it was money well spent, but I'll be putting it through the spray test in a few days and will update then. I plan on mastering (or at least attempting to) this system pretty quickly as I have a backlog of projects I need to get through. I'll post some pics tomorrow.

I played with the system in the kitchen a bit today spraying water so here's what I found:
With the something as thin as water the spray pattern was pretty wide. Very nice! With the fan and fluid wide open this thing can empty an 8 oz cup in seconds. I'll mess with the pattern and air settings until I find the sweet spot.
The noise level was right on par with a shop vac. Not good if you're right on top of the unit, but spraying ~10' away it didn't bother me at all. Compressor and shop vac/turbine noises are different, and even though my compressor is quieter, I prefer to deal with the sound of the turbine. In the shop it will be closer to 15-16' away so the noise will be even more tolerable.
Yep, the whip hose is a must. The big hose did become a bit more flexible with use, but it is still pretty heavy. Also, I see no issues with the durability of the whip hose unless it's stepped on or is bent sharply. I'm not going to baby it, but I'm not going to abuse it either, so we'll see how it does during normal use. As of now I have no worries. All the hose fittings went together perfectly with no air leaks from what I could tell.

I did run into an issue; The gun came with the #4 needle set. It was set at the factory and worked fine. I also ordered the #3 needle set, and this is where the problem lies. I went to change needle sets and the #3 seems larger in diameter than the #4. It is an extremely tight fit in the needle packing. The manual says that the packing may need to be adjusted slightly, but I had to loosen the nut about a full turn to make the needle fit as it's supposed to, gliding smoothly but allowing no leaks. So I changed back to the #4 set after that and as expected, it leaked like crazy because I had to loosen the packing so much. I did not have to do this with my qualspray gun, so I think the #3 needle is defective. I have a replacement on the way. I measured both needles at the last inch or so (where it enters the packing) with my digital calipers and confirmed that the #3 needle is larger by a bit. The #3 measured .126-.127, the #4 measured .1235-.1245. I'm not happy about it, but we'll see how the replacement goes.

For the plastic cup mod, I ordered two types of nylon tubing from mcmaster of the right diameter and will see which matches the rigidness of the the tube on the cup. I have 16 and 32 oz hdpe jars on the way too. I see myself using the 16oz the most, so that's the one I'll start with. If it works well, I'll likely leave that as my main setup. I'll have part numbers and links once I confirm it works.

Unrelated, but the apollo 7500GT is a really sexy spray gun…


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

I've been using a MiniMite 4 since 2005. That's an XT in my profile pic! GREAT tool!

I eventually built-up several guns, a pressure pot, mini-cups… you name it.

BTW… if the noise bothers you or others, add a section of hose to move the turbine to a suitable place, and use a 120v dust collector remote to turn the turbine on and off. I've been doing this since I got the system.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Barry, have you had the issue I mentioned in my novel/post?

I have the #4 set and #3 set; when going from the #4 to the #3, I have to loosen the needle packing nut by a full turn, otherwise the needle is way too tight and binds. Adjusting the packing so the #3 operates as it should, and then switching back to the #4, the #4 now leaks like crazy. I shouldn't have to do this.

About noise, at 10' away the noise doesn't bother me at all. This was just testing in my kitchen spraying water.
I like the dc remote idea a lot! I'm adding that to my arsenal.

Edit to add:Which remote are you using? This one seems to have a pretty good track record.


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