# 24 years experience----Don't do it!



## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Lets talk magnets for a minute! I see products all over that use magnets to hold tools, knives, and even guns, in place. The weak kitchen knife magnetic racks are just fine, not strong enough to cause any problems. These Rare Earth magnets are great, they are small, yet very strong. Keep them away from your valuable tools, knives, and guns. I've been seeing a lot of hangers and concealment devices on the market, a magnet the size of a dime can hold a pound of steel, and they are using way bigger magnets than just a dime size. OK, let me explain, I spent the last 24 years of my career working on overhead cranes and hoists. All of my work was governed by OSHA, ANSI, and the CMAA. My work included both Die-Chem and Magnaflux testing of all hooks, chains and load bearing members and attachments. Both of these processes were the methods of detecting cracks or defects in the solid steel parts. Die-Chem is just like it sounds, clean all dirt, rust or paint off the steel. Apply a penetrating solution and let it dry. Then spray on an activator that will leave a darker colored streak following any crack or crevice in the steel. Cracks that are too small to be seen or felt by human eyes or fingers. This method works very well, but is extremely time consuming with cleaning, stripping the metal and waiting for the penetrant to soak in and dry. Most companies can't have their equipment out of service that long. That is what lead to Magnaflux testing. With Magnaflux, a strong magnetic field is applied across the hooks or sections of steel. The magnetic field aligns all the steel molecules, then a colored iron powder is sprayed across the steel. Any cracks, no matter how small, will be seen by a fine sharp line of the iron powder. If there is an internal defect in the steel such as an air bubble from casting, the iron powder will create a sharp line circling the defect. The powder comes in different colors so it will show up on painted surfaces. OK, long winded, I know, but here is the point of this post. When the molecules of the steel align from the magnetism, the steel becomes brittle and will break easy! After the magnaflux test, the steel has to be hit with a steel hammer to shock it and knock the molecules back out of line so that they are all intertwined and not brittle. I have seen hoist hooks that snapped in half because a service tech didn't believe the magnet could actually realign the molecules of solid steel and he didn't shock the hooks. With my experience in strong magnetism, I will not use them to mount or hold my valuables. I would hate to have a $100 dollar hunting knife or any of my Two Cherry's carving knives snap in two when I'm using it, and just think about what could happen when a hand gun is fired under strong magnetized conditions. I use a lot of the rare earth magnets in wooden tools to hold them in place and even trinkets to hold them onto the fridge, but I keep them away from valuable or dangerous items. I'm through rambling now!


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## mrbob (Nov 3, 2016)

Do you know what a paragraph is?


> ??
> I quit reading after the 3rd sentence


???


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Tough read, rather long but interesting.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

Can you give a source for this. I have magnafluxed things before and had them magnafluxed and never hit one with anything when done. Never seen a problem afterwards.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Interesting.

I knew the physics principles that occur when metal is magnetized but never realized that the molecular structure was permanently altered. I had been taught that the magnetic domains were realigned more so than the molecular arrays.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I could not pass this up and let it stand as written.

As a metallurgical engineer working in steel my entire career, I find your discussion without any merit. I have participated in and read hundreds of steel related failure analysis and NEVER read one from an accredited source citing magnets causing a failure of a steel part due to some magnetic rearrangement of the structure.

Mag particle and eddy current are commonly used to check thing like crane hooks, welds and gears without any ill effects. I have never observed any detrimental effects of magnetism on samples using a metallograph or electron microscope to examine steel.

Large electromagnets are very commonly used to move all kind of steel…plates, billets, bars etc with no ill effects.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> Can you give a source for this. I have magnafluxed things before and had them magnafluxed and never hit one with anything when done. Never seen a problem afterwards.
> 
> - johnstoneb


My training and 24 years experience.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around:

Problem - material is dangerously brittle
Solution - smack it with a hammer.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> I m still trying to wrap my mind around:
> 
> Problem - material is dangerously brittle
> Solution - smack it with a hammer.
> ...


Just mind boggling, ain't it?


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I'm putting my money on Redoak49's analysis.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Hmm, Though I have no experience with a magnaflux test, it seems illogical that you would test the strength of a material with a device that could actually weaken it. Also, I've actually magnetized small pieces of iron by hitting them with a hammer while there is a magnet attached to it. That is probably the most likely outcome of hitting it with a hammer while the magnaflux is in use.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I think this falls under the category of I don't really understand what's happening so I have woven a story that tries to make sense of it.


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

Magnets have no place in my shop, that black magic is for the birds.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I hope that papadan will present some credible evidence.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think that papadan may have stated what he believed to be true but unfortunately it is not. I did a quick search looking for supporting evidence for his claim but could not find any.


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

Sounds like major BS to me. I have an engineering degree so I'm right 100.024% of the time.

Knowing how to take an x-ray does not equal understanding an x-ray. Hearing someone say that x-rays are powered by witch farts doesn't mean they are (or aren't).


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

If this was true, refrigerator doors would be shattering all over the country.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

> I hope that papadan will present some credible evidence.
> 
> - Redoak49
> 
> ...


Why would you get upset over that? You're making a rather tall claim and someone is simply asking for evidence to support your claim. Asking for scientific support, something that shouldn't be too tough to come by in this realm, isn't a personal attack.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Sometimes you just never know what you are going to find floating around on the ol' LJ site. These hidden gems make the search worth it. Priceless


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> I hope that papadan will present some credible evidence.
> 
> - Redoak49
> 
> ...


Greatly appreciated.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

24 years experience you shouldn't be the one applying the dye penetrant that is a level one job. Oddly enough I have been trained in ndt (mag part,X-ray,liquid pen and ultrasonicalso I was a level three when I quit. The only thing magnetism will screw up is your watch if you run in through the field. Also you might want to read the can of penetrant the usually say leave on for five minutes to allow for dwelling then wipe off surface with cleaner then spay with the developer. It shouldn't take more then 30 minutes to do. It will take longer for you to lock out tag out then it will to do the testing.


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## Homick (Feb 20, 2013)

> I could not pass this up and let it stand as written.
> 
> As a metallurgical engineer working in steel my entire career, I find your discussion without any merit. I have participated in and read hundreds of steel related failure analysis and NEVER read one from an accredited source citing magnets causing a failure of a steel part due to some magnetic rearrangement of the structure.
> 
> ...


As someone with a Masters degree in Physics in Solid State and materials, I have to agree. Whatever ill effect the poster is seeing can't simply be attributed to magnetization of a material; there are other things at play that have greater contributions to the strength of the materials than alignment of the magnetic moments under normal conditions; such as movement of dislocations and impurities under stress.

In fact, if I recall correctly, they use the alignment of magnetic moments in molecules to help create order in materials forming perfect crystals, making them stronger under specific conditions.


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

> Magnets have no place in my shop, that black magic is for the birds.
> 
> - DirtyMike


HA HA! HA!

Unless you're a hand tool purist using natural lighting, then you have magnets…
Do you have any motors, or transformers of any sort in your shop? Bad news man, you have black magic…


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Well I've searched and can find nothing to support the assertion of the OP either.

So papadan, it seems you have empirical evidence linking magnaflux testing to failures of steel components. Correct? If so, then it would be something worth exploring and understanding the root mechanisms. As I, and others, have said, there doesn't appear to be any published information relating to this at all. If it's possible to reliably and repeatedly show that the steel is more brittle after the magnaflux testing than before, then you may be on the cusp of uncovering some new physical phenomenon.

I say this not as a smart aleck but with sincerity. While I couldn't find any support for your assertion, I didn't find anything that directly refutes it either.

All that said, the alignment of the magnetic domains in the molecular structure is not the same as altering the structure itself. It is well understood how alignment of the domains alters the magnetic properties of different materials. There is no evidence suggesting however, that doing so alters the molecular structure or modifies any physical properties of the material.


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## RB61 (Nov 30, 2012)

Hope this helps other folks like me. I got into the habit while trying to decipher text from Paul Sellers

Lets talk magnets for a minute! I see products all over that use magnets to hold tools, knives, and even guns, in place. The weak kitchen knife magnetic racks are just fine, not strong enough to cause any problems. These Rare Earth magnets are great, they are small, yet very strong. Keep them away from your valuable tools, knives, and guns. I've been seeing a lot of hangers and concealment devices on the market, a magnet the size of a dime can hold a pound of steel, and they are using way bigger magnets than just a dime size.

OK, let me explain, I spent the last 24 years of my career working on overhead cranes and hoists. All of my work was governed by OSHA, ANSI, and the CMAA. My work included both Die-Chem and Magnaflux testing of all hooks, chains and load bearing members and attachments. Both of these processes were the methods of detecting cracks or defects in the solid steel parts. Die-Chem is just like it sounds, clean all dirt, rust or paint off the steel. Apply a penetrating solution and let it dry. Then spray on an activator that will leave a darker colored streak following any crack or crevice in the steel. Cracks that are too small to be seen or felt by human eyes or fingers.

This method works very well, but is extremely time consuming with cleaning, stripping the metal and waiting for the penetrant to soak in and dry. Most companies can't have their equipment out of service that long. That is what lead to Magnaflux testing. With Magnaflux, a strong magnetic field is applied across the hooks or sections of steel. The magnetic field aligns all the steel molecules, then a colored iron powder is sprayed across the steel. Any cracks, no matter how small, will be seen by a fine sharp line of the iron powder. If there is an internal defect in the steel such as an air bubble from casting, the iron powder will create a sharp line circling the defect. The powder comes in different colors so it will show up on painted surfaces.

OK, long winded, I know, but here is the point of this post. When the molecules of the steel align from the magnetism, the steel becomes brittle and will break easy! After the magnaflux test, the steel has to be hit with a steel hammer to shock it and knock the molecules back out of line so that they are all intertwined and not brittle. I have seen hoist hooks that snapped in half because a service tech didn't believe the magnet could actually realign the molecules of solid steel and he didn't shock the hooks.

With my experience in strong magnetism, I will not use them to mount or hold my valuables. I would hate to have a $100 dollar hunting knife or any of my Two Cherry's carving knives snap in two when I'm using it, and just think about what could happen when a hand gun is fired under strong magnetized conditions. I use a lot of the rare earth magnets in wooden tools to hold them in place and even trinkets to hold them onto the fridge, but I keep them away from valuable or dangerous items. I'm through rambling now!


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

> I hope that papadan will present some credible evidence.
> 
> - Redoak49
> 
> ...


That's no way to live papadan. It's "teh Interwebs". There's always gonna be someone who disagrees with you one way or another- no matter what evidence or experience you cite.

Yeah, I admit, it's irritating when it seems everyone attacks you and won't give credence to your experience… If you're right, find the evidence. If you're wrong, admit it and go on. I've had to take back some of my assertions and eat humble pie. It didn't kill me, and made me a better man.

But shake it off and go on. Life's too short to live it in bitterness and anger. And by all means, don't stop helping others….


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Hit brittle steel with a hammer to make it not brittle.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Barely related- I bought a 1 ton manual chain hoist at a Hanford nuke site auction, this thing had tags on the hooks and chain indicating being Xray, Magnaflux and whatever related load testing. The cost had to be very high for all that. Sold unused for $25.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Being in the steel business myself this post doesn't add up for me either. My welds have been magna fluxed and after the floors have been loaded the weld did not fail. The boom sections of cranes are being magna fluxed also. I would find it hard to believe they would take the risk of weakening a boom section.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

Isn't it how most myths starts?


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

If we smash big things into the earth, will we weaken the magnetic field and prevent earthquakes?


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## dave_oh (Aug 24, 2009)

I'm with Redoak too. I seem to remember from my engineering days that the speed with which the steel is cooled is the big factor in how brittle it is. A faster cool gives a stronger but more brittle steel because the grain size is smaller. To soften steel, it's heated to anneal it and then it's cooled more slowly. It's also possible to "strain harden" some metals by pounding or repeated bending but I've never heard of poinding on a metal to soften it.

Take all of that with a grain of salt since it's been 30 years since I studied metallurgy but what Redoak says makes sense to me.


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## BulldogLouisiana (Apr 12, 2015)

> Do you know what a paragraph is?
> 
> 
> > ??
> ...


Do you know what a question mark is?


> Did you stop reading after the third sentence


? I need to know??? I need to know. I need to know!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

> I could not pass this up and let it stand as written.
> 
> As a metallurgical engineer working in steel my entire career, I find your discussion without any merit. I have participated in and read hundreds of steel related failure analysis and NEVER read one from an accredited source citing magnets causing a failure of a steel part due to some magnetic rearrangement of the structure.
> 
> ...


+10


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Everyone has their own thoughts on this matter. I cannot offer anything more than my own experience. Believe what I wrote or don't, most of you talk about being experts in metallurgy but you didn't work in my place. Die Chem is great on clean metal but if it has to be cleaned and paint removed before testing…....oh wait, I already explained this. Manufacturers can't have their equipment shut down for 30-40 minutes each when they have 40-50 running and DC does not show internal defects. Now if this is info so wrong just ignore it. Mag will show internal defects as well as minute cracks. Most of you say no way for the realignment of molecules to make them brittle. I have no physical proof now but I have seen a couple hooks snap off under loads that they were handling all the time before the mag test. As for the idiots above that asked, when shocking the piece after magnafluxing, you don't hit it hard enough to break it, it takes a lot to break a crane hook or a spreader beam. When I was working, I could show you the results of the test and not shocking afterwards, but none of you would believe it if I showed you in person anyway. It's a damn shame this site wont let us delete our posts because that is what I would be happy to do. Go ahead and use any kind of magnets you want in any way you want, you'll never know why that tip broke off your screwdriver anyway.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

OOOOPPS!!!!! Holy hell, I forgot to do paragraphs again. I'm such a dummy.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Been reading back over some of these comments and I never said that I magnetized anything. Magnaflux sends a magnetic field through the steel being tested so that the iron powder will stick to it anywhere the field is interrupted. As soon as the field is turned off the iron powder falls off, there is no residual magnetism in the steel being tested.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Anyone pop the popcorn yet?


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

No popcorn but I'm eating black and orange tortilla chips left over from Halloween.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Chex mix


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

Spark plugs generate X-rays . Verry verrry small amounts and they are scattered in the engine so don't worry. Just digressing. 
Magnetism is a magical thing, so my freshman physics teacher said. We know a lot about it but not much about what carries its power. The electron. If you see an electron you don't know when you saw it, and if you know when you saw it you don't know where you saw it. That's magic to me. No matter what integral calculous you throw at it.
A magnets effect on a piece of metal is more like the metals effect on it. There is no rearrangement of molecules just the movement of free electrons if there are any USUALLY A WELL DONE ALLOY OF IRON OR A PURE PREPAIRED PIECE OF METALLIC IRON HAS NO REAL FREE ELECTRONS. The attraction is caused by what I call "Stacking" of orbitals in the iorn atom. Apply heat and less stacking can occur. Heat is the only way I know of that the iron molecules can be rearranged. Chemical action like oxidation or reduction are different story and say goodbye to Magnetism. I'm rambling so I'll stop.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> Spark plugs generate X-rays . Verry verrry small amounts and they are scattered in the engine so don t worry. Just digressing.
> Magnetism is a magical thing, so my freshman physics teacher said. We know a lot about it but not much about what carries its power. The electron. If you see an electron you don t know when you saw it, and if you know when you saw it you don t know where you saw it. That s magic to me. No matter what integral calculous you throw at it.
> A magnets effect on a piece of metal is more like the metals effect on it. There is no rearrangement of molecules just the movement of free electrons if there are any USUALLY A WELL DONE ALLOY OF IRON OR A PURE PREPAIRED PIECE OF METALLIC IRON HAS NO REAL FREE ELECTRONS. The attraction is caused by what I call "Stacking" of orbitals in the iorn atom. Apply heat and less stacking can occur. Heat is the only way I know of that the iron molecules can be rearranged. Chemical action like oxidation or reduction are different story and say goodbye to Magnetism. I m rambling so I ll stop.
> 
> - pontic


Pass the damn popcorn!


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

LOL…Buttered, non-buttered, or Magnetic?


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

> If we smash big things into the earth, will we weaken the magnetic field and prevent earthquakes?
> 
> - ChuckV


No, but high pressure waste water pumping will cause them.



> Magnetism is a magical thing, so my freshman physics teacher said. We know a lot about it but not much about what carries its power. The electron. If you see an electron you don t know when you saw it, and if you know when you saw it you don t know where you saw it. That s magic to me.
> 
> - pontic


I spent 45 years following freely gyrating electrons and they are fascinating, mysterious and magical. During my trouble shooting experiences I found things that I certainly did not believe could cause the problem and no engineer or electrician could explain, but I corrected the issue and the problem magically went away ;-) Could papadan have entered that mystical realm of unsolved mysteries?

I'll try the magnetic popcorn please, lightly sprinkled with Fe flavoring.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I am just SURE that you folks can IRON things out,right?

And I like buttered w/jalapeño salt… ;-)


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

Mike,

Stop trying to STEEL this thread with humor.


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## Itsme6582 (Dec 1, 2016)

> Hearing someone say that x-rays are powered by witch farts doesn t mean they are (or aren t).
> 
> - gargey


Or aren't… I'm stealing this. I doubt you'll get any credit.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Mag partical only finds flaws up to a 1/4( and that's pushing it more like .005 - .01 of a inch in depth) so a crane hook that has lifted 1000s of pounds numerous times is fatigued. Just like taking a paper clip and and bending it back and forth will fatigue it and it will break. A company that lets their crane hooks get to that point is a crappy company and doesn't care about their product or employees. Yes companies can be down that long for testing. I have done ndt at places that have to be shut down for hours or even days to test that are losing 20-30000 every ten minutes being down. They know if something goes bad it will kill a employee,damage the product and their name. So yeah the don't like losing a couple million up front to not lose a couple hundred million or more on loss of product,legal expenses,bad publicity and repair costs. I'm not dogging on your experiences I'm just saying that maybe you are putting two things together that happened but are not the cause of the failure. Like this hook is junk and should have been replaced 5 years ago so let's get the ndt guys here to tell us if we can still use it. So you get there hit it with the mag gun(which is fun to play with) and the hook falls off. So you magging it has nothing to do with it already being junk and ready to break. The constant lifting of material that with each lift fatigues the material a little is what has caused the failure. You just happened to be there at the right time to see it fail and luckily no one was hurt.

There is a reason why testing that way is called nondestructive testing(ndt). Since it is nondestructive or no damage is caused in the process of testing. Just imagine that hook that failed if it would have passed your test and you signed off on it that it was good. Then the next lift it fails breaks 1 million worth of product kills the the guy running the crane and his buddy next to the load. Now you are liable for it since you singed off on it right. No because you did nondestructive testing and it passed because the company should have taken the time to have the hook
X-rayed after it had already met its service life and have the hook recertified for service. That would be a hour job maintence or a crane company could replace the hook and send the old one off so not much down time. They could do it at the same time the cables are checked and everything get lubed then there is zero down time for that. But back to it killing people. So the lawyer say hey this guy signed off on it so they come talk to you. You say yeah it passed the test but the magnetic field I made realigned the molecular bond and cause the boom to fail. Well now the lawyer says ok talks to a couple engineers they say no that's not how it works. Lawyer now says well I don't need to call them to the stand just the magnet guy. You hit the stand say what you think happened lawyer says see he knows what he is talking about. Now the fault is on you and your company for not using a nondestructive testing method since you said that the process used hurt and changed the hook. So the family of the victims gets to sue your company and you for civil damages. Does it matter that you used a known nondestructive method when testing no because you said it changed the hook for the worse and with your years of experience then you should know what your talking about. I would assume that your company would fight it and you would to and now it's cost you your lively hood just to fight it. Why did this all happen because the company was to cheap to have a crane down 30 minutes(could be done at employee lunch time,a holiday or a weekend when the place is shut down. Or be cause you in your used a "destructive" method instead of a nondestructive method.

What I'm getting at is it doesn't sound like have had the proper training for what you are doing. If you haven't taken a test to be a level two or had the actual class time to be a level one then you should look into it. With that many years you should be a level three. A one does the job a two tells them. Level two reads the procedure and tells one what to do. A level three writes the procedure for the two to read and the one to follow. The way it sounds is like you have the on the job training by someone who wasn't trained properly. I took all my training at Texas A&M for ndt to be used on underwater construction oil rigs,pipe lines, bridges,dams,reactors etc. you need both to move up class training and on the job training. My training in class and in the field would be the same as yours should be for the actual testing. I understand your concern for what you have seen but if that is the case then mag particle needs to be put into the destructive testing category and everything that it has ever tested needs to be reevaluated. So then you will need scientific evidence to back up your hypothesis for testing. I'm not saying you have don't know
Your job or how your job works I'm just saying you have been improperly trained. Dont ever be afraid to ask why something is being done if you have doubts or want to know. If your trainer or supervisor doesn't want to tell you or says it's not your job to know then I would be thinking he doesn't know what he is doing. That would pass crappy training down from them to you and everyone else that you train. I'm sure you would train them well but it if you have the wrong info then they have the wrong info. Sorry for the more then my 2 cents this post is more like a dime. If you need class time I'm more then happy to point you in the right direction with that many years you should be sitting on your ass in a office making 75k(in my area should be more but I live in a low pay area) a year writing procedures and handing out work while you are in the ac. Could you let me know if you have had class time or even know how to move up in the ndt world if not you have been given a great injustice and have lost out on a butt load of money over the years.


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## MattLinPA (Oct 18, 2015)

Butter with Cayenne pepper heavily applied…

Pontic - I'm a car guy and have a very strong understanding of the internal combustion motor - but I never knew that Spark plugs create x-rays…. so…. all those times that I tested for spark on small (and big) engines just shocking myself (accidentally of course)... I was ruining my chances of making babies? (since I didn't have that lead apron over my man junk)? If so….. How close do you think that I can get the spark plugs (with out burning) to my man junk to give myself a vasectomy? Also for what duration do you think will work?


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)




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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Ha! Great minds think alike Joe. I was about to post another Lord of the Rings reference. Instead I will leave the discussion with this thought…

The difference between a fairy tale and and war story is that a fairy tale starts with "Once upon a time" and a war story starts with "Sh!t, this *really *happened".

No popcorn for me. It gets stuck in my teeth.


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## marc_rosen (Sep 9, 2009)

> Mike,
> 
> Stop trying to STEEL this thread with humor.
> 
> - RobS888


The irony of it all.
Marc


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Slam something big and hard into the side of a planet, to stop it's magentic field…...seems an object hit Mars a long time go, now mars doesn't have any. Just a big rusty ball of iron floating in space….


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Best I can add…......
Is there magnetic paragraph generator thingy that can be put into auto mode?
Bill


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Well, first, they'd would have to know exactly WHAT a paragraph actually was…..


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)




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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Mike,
> 
> Stop trying to STEEL this thread with humor.
> 
> ...


I give up you sure NAILed that one and took the LEAD?


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Popcorn is ready…..bring your own salt and butter…


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## UncannyValleyWoods (Apr 18, 2013)




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## UncannyValleyWoods (Apr 18, 2013)




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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

I think this is the one to watch!


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> - UncannyValleyWoods


Yep, this guy is right on it.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Hit it with a hammer, fixes everything.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> Hit it with a hammer, fixes everything.
> 
> - Rick M


Ummm…...make sure it's a BIG hammer


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Really cranes don't lift with cables what the hell are you talking about. Any heavy load you use shackles with lifting cables. The crane uses a drum that spins to wind up the cable that lifts the block that has the hook attached. 








Lots of cable there picking up the load.
You can educate me on whatever you deem to be up your alley. Sucks you have/had cancer I know the feeling but I was actually trying to help you make more money at a easier job. I see why you didn't move up the ndt ladder. Kind of odd that I can find anything in my class books,notes or written testing procedures on having to shock the molecules back in place with a hammer blow. If anything when you demaged the work piece it should've back to how it was hence the nondestructive testing part of it. Say what you want I tried to help and give professional advise maybe what I typed will help out a younger person move up and make a easier and better life for themselves. You are obviously a guy who says "well I've been doing it for 20 years that way". So bring on that education you are talking about I'm all about some knowledge.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> Really cranes don t lift with cables what the hell are you talking about. Any heavy load you use shackles with lifting cables. The crane uses a drum that spins to wind up the cable that lifts the block that has the hook attached.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NO CRANE HAS EVER USED A CABLE TO LIFT A LOAD! All cranes and hoists use wire rope, not cable. Cable is made differently and is not meant for lifting or running through sheaves (pullies), cables are for holding things in place.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

If anyone wants to read the procedure it's in astm e-709 for mag particle. It's not a fun read but if your interested look it up. I used my ndt procedure book on disc so sorry for not having links. You guys have fun I'm out of this magical thread.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Sorry to hear that Lloyd, I was having fun. This whole thread is screwed up and nobody will let it die.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

> Sorry to hear that Lloyd, I was having fun. This whole thread is screwed up and nobody will let it die.
> 
> - papadan


What if we throw a strong magnet on it and neglect to whack it with a hammer?


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Sorry for the cable confusion all the crane cables I have felt with have been from the same company and are sold as cables the company was prysimian. I see the difference like I said I did oil and gas ndt. Thanks for clearing that up now if I ever order from a different company I will know the terminology. Sorry for posting again after I said I'm out of this thread but I wanted to say thanks for clearing that up. I feel like this wasn't a waste of my time talking to a wall since I learned something. I see what the hell you are talking about with the cable thing. Anyways I'm out again you guys have fun and stay safe I have some video games to play. Edit nevermind I looked it up the term is interchangeable but 3/8 and below are referred to cable and 3/8 and above are referred to as rope. But interchangeable.http://www.bergencable.com/technology/technology_cable101.html


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)




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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Exactly, the first set of the nail shocks the molecules back into position so that it's safe to hammer the nail the rest of the way in without the nail breaking. 
Genius 
If only they could make it so that the nails quit bending… :>/


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Sorry, but Bergen cable is not a wire rope company dealing with cranes and hoists. I looked at their site and their info. is so wrong in how they say wire ropes stretch and their under 3/8" not being a wire rope, but a cable. Run a cable over sheaves and see how long it lasts before breaking. Cables are not…..never mind. This is all a waste of time. I am a certified crane and hoist technician with OSHA, ANSI, and CMAA certifications for inspecting, testing, and repairing of all overhead cranes and hoists. There is nobody else here that has more knowledge or certifications in this field than I do. Don't worry, I wont offer any more information on any subject here on LJs. If I post it will only be the usual ataboy bull********************, so my post count wont be growing.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> There is nobody else here that has more knowledge or certifications in this field than I do.
> - papadan


"If you are the smartest person in the room….you are in the wrong room."

I could find a knitting forum and make the same claim about wood working. Doesn't mean squat.

Start the same thread here.

http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=340

Report back…I'd be interested in what they have to say.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

Well excellent - I've always wondered who to approach with questions about material sciences at the molecular level and now I know that I should seek out a crane and hoist tech.


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## nakmuay (Sep 11, 2014)

I'm an Aviation Structures teacher with 15 years hands on experience. I agree with the guys that are talking about electron flow rather than molecular structure.
To be fair to PapaDan, sometimes it's easy to fall into industry superstition. When you ask the older guys in the shop how or why to do something they're usually a gold mine of information. Sometimes however you get a dud, then your mind starts to fit situations to the facts rather than facts to the situation and the truth be comes self evident. I've done it myself and been proved wrong.
I'd say keep an open mind PapaDan, your never too old to learn something new. Just because this might not line up exactly with science doesn't mean you weren't doing a good job


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I was curious about what the difference was between a cable and a wire rope since I have always heard them used interchangeably. If you look up the definitions of cable and wire rope, you will find that a wire rope is a cable. By definition ( from wikipedia and other online dictionaries):
"A cable is two or more wires running side by side and bonded, twisted, or braided together to form a single assembly. The term originally referred to a nautical line of specific length where multiple ropes, each laid clockwise, are then laid together anti-clockwise and shackled to produce a strong thick line, resistant to water absorption, that was used to anchor large ships.
In mechanics, cables, otherwise known as wire ropes, are used for lifting, hauling, and towing or conveying force through tension."

On the other hand if you look up wire rope, most reference start by saying it is a type of cable. Other types of cable being made from hemp for example.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Now I am very confused. This Crowned Crane is obviously operated via cables:


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)




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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

are we talking anti spin cable or right hand lay cable


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I have Time Warner Cable. (actually I don't, but someone had to say it)


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

> are we talking anti spin cable or right hand lay cable
> 
> - corelz125


No, we're talking about total stupidity by most of the posters in this thread. They haven't got a clue of the topic, but have to jump in with their 1/2%. I love the wizard of oz!


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## Stevedore (Nov 8, 2012)

I find myself attracted to this thread, yet somehow repelled at the same time.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

> I have Time Warner Cable.
> 
> - Rick M


I have Comcast Wire Rope.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

Yep, as I said!


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Now it's Spectrum wire rope cable.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I go to pick up a girl in a bar. I say "will you go home with me?" She says "I don't know, do you have cable?" I say "no, but the rope should work just fine."

- Emo Philips


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Due to the excessive flags regarding this thread, I am going to go ahead and close it.


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## UncannyValleyWoods (Apr 18, 2013)




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