# Delta 36-725 vs Ridgid R4512



## MCPorche (Jan 29, 2014)

I've been using a Craftsman portable benchtop table saw for years. As a hobbyist, it's done it's job, but now I'm looking to move up.

I now have a dedicated workshop, so I don't need my saw to be *that* portable (although being able to roll it out of the way would be great).

With my budget, I'm looking at the Delta 36-725 from Lowes and the Ridgid R4512. Both come in at between $500 and $600.

I was hoping to get some opinions to help me decide which to go with.

Anyone like either one over the other? Or does one or the other have features that make it more desireable?

Thanks.


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## Craftsman70 (Jul 31, 2012)

The Ridgid seems to be built with a little heavier-duty material (stamped wings for example are thicker). However, the Ridgids also have high frequency of alignment problems. I'd lean toward the Delta, but its just too new to know how it will hold up.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

How about something used? I recently picked up an older Rigid TS2424. Built like a tank with cast wings and a nice robust single piece fence rail. I've seen the delta in person an in my opinion…it's pretty cheesey. Might cut nice (I don't know if it does…just sayin') but doesn't seem to be built to last. I think like many tools, older table saws may very well be better until you start looking at bigger units like hybrids or cabinet saws.


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## MrFid (Mar 9, 2013)

Either used or Ridgid. Delta is on the outs.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

The delta has some reviews on the Lowes website. They are not very favorable toward assembly. The bolts to secure the wings are not included and there have been fence alignment issues.

Based on that alone and the fact Delta is on the way out - making sourcing replacement parts a difficult and lengthy process - I would pass on the Delta.

Being an R4512 owner I would pass on that saw as well. I'd use your craftsman for a few more months, bank some cash and go for the Grizzly G0715P. 900.00 delivered and easily twice the saw as the R4512


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## MCPorche (Jan 29, 2014)

>>Being an R4512 owner I would pass on that saw as well.

May I ask why? I'm curious as to what kind of issues you had.

>>I'd use your craftsman for a few more months, bank some cash and go for 
>>the Grizzly G0715P. 900.00 delivered and easily twice the saw as the R4512

Unfortunately, I don't see a time in the future where my wife would sign off on spending $900 on a table saw.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Grizzly G0715P have the same alignment problems as the R4512?


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## gtbuzz (Sep 19, 2011)

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Grizzly G0715P have the same alignment problems as the R4512?

Yes and no, although more no. The R4512 and G0715P share the same trunnion design. They're identical. I've used both and I can attest to that. I believe that the alignment issues with the R4512 have more to do with production variability than anything else. True, it could be a more robust design that isn't affected by this as much, however I also believe the reason you hear far fewer problems with alignment with the Grizzly is they have tighter tolerances on what they consider acceptable. I have to proof to back that up, but it seems to jive with all the evidence I've seen.

With the Griz, you get

Full enclosure (although dust collection is only average at best on this saw since it lacks a shroud that surrounds the blade
Better motor
Better fence (single rail design as opposed to split rail. Really liked that the Ridgid fence had built in t-track though)
2 CI wings instead of stamped steel
Easier trunnion adjustment - the Griz has a panel on the pack that you can remove to access the rear trunnion bolts. The Ridgid you have to contort yourself underneath for all of the bolts
MUCH better customer service. There's something to be said for the R4512 in that you can just return it to Home Depot, but I'd be surprised if you could just call someone at Ridgid customer service and talk to them abou the saw. Completely the opposite for Grizzly


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I think Delta will be around the rumors of them closing the doors is a couple of years old. The tablesaw in question is new for delta and lowes carrying their products helps keeping them around. The only thing I have noticed,is the product line is smaller.


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## gtbuzz (Sep 19, 2011)

Whoops. Just realized I forgot to answer the OP's question too.

The Delta 36-725 is brand new and still an unproven saw. Could turn out to be a great one, but not enough data to know for sure right now. Most of the problems I've read about thus far seem to revolve around assembly of the saw and now actual usage itself. Plus, Delta is not on the rockiest of footing as a company right now, so it's probably something you ought to consider. I wouldn't let it become the one factor that determines if the saw is in or out.

With the Ridgid, my personal feeling is that it could be a good bang-for-the-buck saw if you happen to get one without alignment issues. There's no evidence to indicate it's something that's been fixed via design (if you look at the postings of people who do and don't have alignment issues, there's no correlation to mfg date), so it's very much a guess and check thing. Same thing applies if you decide to buy a used one. Make sure you check.

The one plus with both of these though, is that both Lowes and Home Depot have pretty liberal return policies. It may be a hassle, but you have 90 days to take them back if you don't like them.

If I were in your shoes, I'd really check out the used market. Did a quick check in Shreveport Craigslist and right now nothing interesting turns up, but you never know. Your C'man should serve you until something pops up.


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## kajunkraft (May 7, 2012)

I had the R4512 and did not like it at all. Numerous little problems and absolutely zero customer service support from Ridgid.


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## Kroden (Apr 23, 2012)

Personally I like my R4512. I like it much more since I upgraded the fence. I could have just bought a $900 saw to begin with, but I didn't know better at the time (nor did I have the extra $400 to spare).

The fence on the Delta looks like a T2, which I was considering for my fence upgrade but couldn't find one. Table top, wings, and motor look similar to the R4512. It looks like the Delta has dust port in the blade guard, which could be handy. Specs say it's 200lbs, which should be sturdy enough. I think the R4512 is 250lb, but I don't imagine there would be a real difference. Feel free to go give the store model a good shove though 

Only thing I don't really like on the delta is the location of the foot lever for moving it. If you put a router on that side or cover the opening it seems like it would be hard to get to. But I'm just going by the picture.

If I was shopping today and had that budget, I'd probably go with the Delta.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

I purchased a R4512 in January of 2013 and although ridgid has sent me new rail components and a complete new fence it still is pretty difficult to get a straight rip. Cross cuts are great. 
I found that I have to align the blade and fence from the same miter slot or I get about a .03 toe in on the fence.

I regret all the time I have spent trying to get this saw to work. ridgid was helpful and I thought the fence being replaced would solve my problems, but it didn't.

I'm going to get a sawstop in a couple of months, so it will be for sale.


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## Tommybo76 (Jan 27, 2014)

If you are looking at the R4512 then you may want to check out the Craftsman 21833. After reading lots of reviews I decided to buy the r4512 based on price and overall good reviews from owners and it's identical to the 21833 minus color, price and warranty. Then I saw a used 21833 on Craigslist. The CL saw didn't work out for me but I noticed the 21833 had dropped in price. The r4512 is going for $549 in Dayton ohio, while the 21833 just dropped to $459 online and can be picked up at the store with tax for under $500. It took me about 6 hours to set up (though that included a few times doing the same step over due to my screw ups). It seems well built but its been too cold to work in my garage the last few days so I can't tell you how well it cuts yet. It is still on sale online, I just checked. Some people have had luck using harbor freight 20 percent coupons at homedepot but mine said they would only honor up to $50 or less than 10 percent. Hope that helps!


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## MCPorche (Jan 29, 2014)

Well, part of the reason I'm looking at HomeDepot/Lowes is because, as a member of the military, I get a 10% discount…..and, if I can catch one on sale, it's that much better.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

For that price point, I think you could find higher quality on the used market.
A Jet, or Older Delta would do just fine.


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## Tommybo76 (Jan 27, 2014)

I hear you on the 10 percent. I tried to get Sears to throw on my military discount but no luck…it was still cheaper than the normal HD price with 10%. If you can add your discount to a sale then that would be great. 
Thanks for your service! Good luck on your search.


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## keninblaine (Jan 5, 2014)

For Scott above, who didn't like the location of the foot lever on the Delta: it can apparently be put on either side of the saw. In fact, one buyer on another thread said the instructions show it being put on the left side of the saw, not on the right side like most Lowes floor models are displayed.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Rigid/Craftsman has had alignment problems for a couple product generations and the company can't be bothered to fix it. I've read time and again the Rigid/Craftsman fence is pretty mediocre. The Delta hybrid-ish is new and who knows if it will turn out to be a good saw. No one can really give you advice because it hasn't been out long enough but I've seen one in person and it is sturdy, well designed, and looks like a good quality fence. Keep in mind these are budget saws and there will be some trade-offs either way. Don't be gullible and fall for the Delta rumors which were spread by Powermatic/Jet reps to their dealers because PM was on the way out and desperate. If I had to buy a new saw tomorrow and my budget was $600 or under I'd be looking for a used late 90's - early 2000's Delta or Powermatic contractor. They had great fences and were quality built saws, better than anything you can buy today for under $1300-ish. Delta sold a bunch and they are commonly available but get one with a Biesemeyer or Unifence.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

The reasons I would not recommend the R4512:

Preface:

I have had this saw about 2 years and it sees daily use. The power is all there - you aren't going to do any better in a sub 3hp table saw. Mine did not have the alignment issues that plague many others. Given the amount of work I do on this saw - I should really own a full 3hp cabinet saw. This wasn't designed for what my wife and I put it through.

Issues:

First and foremost - the fence. The fence itself is decent for a clamp lock. It stays put. However the 2 piece rail design is miserable. It sags over time and will cause your fence to become out of square with the table. This is a serious issue for any rips narrower than 3". It's "fixable" by disassembling the fence, tightening the set screw blocks, re-leveling the steel extensions and re-installing the fence. I have done this 5 times so far.

Not only is this inaccurate, it's dangerous. The fence slider that rides in the rails becomes higher than the table on one side.

The riving knife becomes impossible to lock/unlock over time. The stress actually loosens the armature on the arbor. It requires messing with the set screws to tighten it down, which also requires realigning the riving knife. MAJOR PITA.

Dust collection is a polite suggestion. Don't even think of using a shop vac. A proper 4" DC is required. There are so many holes and openings in the cabinet that only the dust that falls into the chute gets picked up. Expect to blow out a few inches of dust often. Also there is little room between the bottom of the chute and the arm for the lift. The bend is a lot more extreme than I would like. A rear exit would be so much better

The overarm guard is huge. It's not practical for narrow (less than 2") rips. I know most people ditch these anyway, but I like to use mine. It attaches/removes in seconds so it's not a big deal. I wish it was a smaller profile guard. I use the Grr-Ripper for narrower rips, but even with 2 grr-rippers it's difficult on long rips.

The steel extensions are mediocre. Way better than on the delta for sure, but not a good substitute for cast iron.

There is no way to level the saw's base. My garage floor is like the surface of the moon. My tablesaw is not in my ideal location because I had to find a flat spot.

The bevel adjustment never stays true to the gauge. This is probably due to the horribly inadequate dust collection and things getting clogged up in there.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Also if you are looking at used saws, a riving knife should be a deal breaker. A splitter is not the same and almost useless.

Rick, the actual fence on the delta is pretty nice. It's the delta T2 (t-square fence). However it still has a 2 piece rail design. For this reason alone I wouldn't even consider this saw as a potential purchase.

I have also seen in in person and it kind of looks like a POS compared to the ridgid. The trnuions look like a really strange design. Also the bevel adjustment looks like it's prone to some play. The "cabinet" is super flimsy and the saw is really light. Great if you need to transport it often, not so great if you need some mass.


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## mgmechie (Jan 30, 2014)

I currently have the R4512 torn apart to calibrate everything. I checked my arbor and it had .0005" (thats right, 5 ten thousandths) variance. The blade was out .014" from the miter, but on my second attempt I was able to get it to .003".

I didn't have any issues what so ever adjusting the trunions, which has been a common complaint from some.

To fix the sagging split front rail issue I cut a piece of oak with a slight bow and slid that through the main channel of the front fence and put a single screw up through the bottom of each side so the bow tries to pull the ends of the fence up. The fence currently smiles at me just a little bit, but I haven't put my router table extension on there yet to help weight it down.

I will let you know how it goes in the end. I have liked the R4512 so far, I have been using it for general construction stuff so I didn't really care how square it was when I bought it, but as I rev up to redo the kitchen and build some furniture I am getting things tuned now.

It has good amount of power (mine is running on 220 right now, but I ran it at 110 since I bought it and it still never hesitated) and with a decent blade on there it really does do a good job. It does have it's draw backs that need to be compensated for though. I wouldn't be afraid of it if you are a person willing to solve problems though.

Good luck.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

The 2 piece rail was rock solid on the Delta I looked at, bet I could have stood on it. The sheet metal is kinda flimsy but it's designed to be light, the tubular frame is heavy duty. Can't speak to the trunions, couldn't see them from below or above. To me, it's a good looking saw for $600 but then the Rigid is a good looking saw too but I wouldn't want one.


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## Woodwrestler (Jul 10, 2012)

I had the R4511 which had a granite top. You have to buy an aftermarket fence if you want to do anything accurate. I used the INCRA TS-LS32 which is now on my Powermatic 2000.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/tls/4310491090.html

Buy used if your going to get a saw. It takes diligence buy you will find great deals. The above link is a Ridgid in LA with a delta fence for $450. That is the direction I would head. When you go look at them take an accurate combination square with you and do a quick test on miter slot alignment with blade, etc. I have bought all my table saws used.


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## JayBarnes (Jan 21, 2014)

I have the new Delta and can say with confidence that the split rail is not an issue on this saw. The fence is a T-2 with new stickers. From what I have read, many people have upgraded to the T-2 fence and have been very happy.

The saw feels pretty solid. The tube frame is fairly heavy duty, and being tied together by the sheet metal seems to make the chassis quite rigid (not Ridgid). Once you flip the wheel up, she hugs the ground very well. The saw rolls nicely when the lift caster is down. The lift mechanism itself is very simple with minimal moving parts (bonus).

I've spent the last week tinkering with saw to get it nice and square and have good results. Well within the specs of a much more expensive saw.

The stamped wings are ok for me. The right side will have a router table sooner than later.

I don't know if the bevel is accurate.

I don't know if the dust collection works well or not.

The throat plate could be a whole lot better.

It will cut wood if you guide it towards the blade.

The riving knife thing pushed me towards a new saw. Finding a used saw with riving knife might take a while. Heck, finding a used saw with a guard and splitter might take a while. Also, craigslist prices in Metro Detroit seem pretty inflated.

Jay


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## Tennessean (Feb 3, 2014)

I just bought the Delta 36-725 from Lowes for some projects that I have coming up at home. Haven't even checked the contents of the box yet. I looked at various other saws from Home Depot and Lowes and decided that this one would meet my needs better than the others. I based that decision on portability, table size and function. It looked well made to me. I just need it to cut reasonably well. I hope I won't regret it. I also was able to get it with a 25% off coupon from Harbor Freight.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*I'm a "Hobby Woodworker".* I have the Ridgid 4516. I'm quite Happy with it. (HD $369)

I particularly like the Fully Encased Blade that sends ALL of the sawdust Out the "Chute" and into my Shop Vac.

It's on an older set of steel legs. Sits on 3/4" Ply with neoprene washers under to control Vibration. Also the "Quick Release" Nuts & Bolts sit on Rubber. Can be removed in 10 Minutes max. if required.

Have since added a "Port-A-Mate" Rolling Base.

I can rip 4×8 Sheets, (Roller Extensions) no problem, or any other size Lumber. Everything worked fine right of the box.

BUT! It MIGHT not be the saw for you if you're planning on "Constant, Heavy Duty, Say … 4 to 6 Hrs. Per Day."

Rick


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*DAMN! I HATE This! *

*MCPorche Joined 7 Days ago. *He's done ONE Post. This one 6 Days Ago. He also hasn't been on Site for 6 Days.

*This is happening all to often now.* I put a fair amount of effort into answering these Posts.

From now on ONLY a Poster with a Reasonable "Track Record" gets a response.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Rick - At least we've had some lovely dialog


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## MCPorche (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm not sure why you think I haven't been on the site for 6 days. I've been reading this thread daily since I started it.

I guess in the future, I'll be sure to reply to every single post with a thank you so that you'll know that I was here. I didn't realize the protocol for this site was so stringent. I've learned that now, and I'll be sure to comply with that in the future.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Glad you're back MCPorche, but don't assume that the views of one represent the whole site…..


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## MCPorche (Jan 29, 2014)

I think the problem he was having was that I accessed the thread a couple of times a day from work, and didn't actually sign on. I just read the thread as a guest.

I guess that is why he didn't think I had visited the site more often.


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## pkjorlie (Feb 7, 2015)

I'm new here and thought I'd weigh in. I'm a mechanical engineer by day and a woodworker by night.

I've been swaying between the Craftsman 21833 and the Delta 36-725. From what I can see the Craftsman is virtually the same as Rigid/Menards/Dayton etc.

I like the Delta from a dust collection standpoint and I've always held Delta to a pretty high standard but I don't like the Motor/Gearbox and flat drive belt. The Craftsman twins have a more standard Motor/V-Belt design. I'm just leery of the proprietary motor and gearbox combination on the Delta. I also want to convert to 240 V for better starting torque which also could affect that gearbox. I trust Sears more from a parts standpoint than the Ridgid or any of the other twins.

Several years ago I moved and sold my Jet JTS-10JF to my brother. I wish I had that saw back (I'm watching ebay for another one used)


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## kajunkraft (May 7, 2012)

The Ridgid 4512 has some supporters and some not so much. I used to have one and was glad to get rid of it. Had all the discussed problems and, of course, zero support from Ridgid. Can't discuss the merits of the Delta saw from personal experience, but can tell you that our local dealer (PMC, which is not a big box store, nor a Rockler, etc., but a pretty serious woodworker supply type store) has decided to discontinue the entire Delta line. From my experience Delta was a major player at one time. I read comments here and there about who bought them, what PowerMatic says about them, etc., etc., etc. Don't really know what is true. However, our local store has dropped them because they can't get parts and says that they really need the parts because the products really need lots of repairs. Before I got my 3HP SawStop I really liked the DeWalt that had the knob to adjust the fence (don't know the model # offhand) which is still being sold. For an inexpensive, portable saw, why not consider that one? Of course, an older Delta or PowerMatic is usually a pretty good deal if you want the full-fledged cabinet saw.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

There should be more of these Ridgid vs Delta threads. Too bad no one has written about them before.


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## pkjorlie (Feb 7, 2015)

Thanks guys,
I do have a decent Ryobi BTS20R portable that I used back when I was a remodeling contractor. Cut a lot of cement board siding and ripped a lot of OSB with it and it still runs great. So maybe I should hang on to that till I find the used Jet that I want.


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## mgmechie (Jan 30, 2014)

I still own my R4512 and I still really like it. I wouldn't say it is the best saw, but once you learn it's quirks it is a good saw for the price. This was the exact saw I wanted when I was looking a while ago and I don't regret getting it, but there are definitely betters out there, but the deal I got was pretty hard to pass by. Once it is calibrated it really does a good job. My absolute main issue is you always have to set your blade height going the same direction (always lowering for me), as when you adjust the blade height it will kick the blade out of alignment, then when you lower it again it goes back into place. I'm not sure if this fixes itself once you turn it on, but there is a visible movement when you go from moving it up to back down. I've got a Freud industrial blade on it that I keep clean and sharp and it leaves a smooth finish on the edges, so long as I play by it's rules.

Pros: Great motor, movability in the shop, sits solid on the floor when the casters are raised (like cabinet saw solid), lots of space for router table extensions (because you remove the stamped wings because they're… well stamped steel), budget friendly, decent fence, common miter slots that fit very well.

Cons: table mounted trunions (once calibrated correctly this isn't an issue anymore), blade height adjustment moves blade out of alignment when raising or lowering the blade. Also making throat plate inserts is kind of obnoxious as well, doable just annoying.


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## pkjorlie (Feb 7, 2015)

Mark,
I'm glad your having good luck with the R4512. That is good input as that's kinda the way I'm leaning. If I went via that saw, I would probably still opt for the nearly identical Craftsman 21833. Even though they are made in the same factory, some minor parts may be a little different. I've always trusted Sears to make parts available. That said, I've purchased parts for tools, equipment and appliances never even sold by Sears on searspartsdirect.com. 
Thanks,


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## mgmechie (Jan 30, 2014)

I definitely won't knock the craftsman version. I don't know if there is a difference beyond the latch handle for the fence. One of my friends out here has it and I've used it successfully before. He isn't an avid wood worker, but has put it through its paces. He runs it on 110 and doesn't have problems with it at all, his stuff is more general construction than cabinet making or fine furniture though, which is what this saw is more well suited for with the minor innaccuracies.


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## pkjorlie (Feb 7, 2015)

Well, it's a moot point for me now. I found a used but very nice JET JWTS-10 table saw on Craigslist, and picked it up today for $300. I was so happy to find one identical to what I had before. This was after I had offered my brother $600 to buy my old one back and he said no. LOL
I'll still be watching this thread tho. Really curious how some of these new hybrids perform long term.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> Well, it s a moot point for me now. I found a used but very nice JET JWTS-10 table saw on Craigslist, and picked it up today for $300. I was so happy to find one identical to what I had before. This was after I had offered my brother $600 to buy my old one back and he said no. LOL
> I ll still be watching this thread tho. Really curious how some of these new hybrids perform long term.
> 
> - pkjorlie


Congrats on getting your old friend back!


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