# Removinf rust stains from nails on white oak floor?



## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

I read oxalic acid will remove it. 
They are well absorbed in the wood about 1/2 to 3/4 inch around each nail and there are about 20 of them. 
Any advice?


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Anyone?


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## freddy1962 (Feb 27, 2014)

Pictures may help.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Dutchman might work. The kind you make. Not the Dutchgirl powder. The black is a reaction between the Tannin in the wood and the iron in the nail. Maybe the stuff the take out Lime Rust & stains.?


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Bandit is correct that it's a reaction between the tannins and the iron. Oxalic acid will remove those kind of stains, but any moisture will cause it to happen again. Barkeeper's Friend, available in any hardware store and many drug stores next to the Ajax, is detergent and oxalic acid. Maybe try a test on one to see if it works, and go from there?


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

I have 4 products to try.
The floor has been sanded already. I need to make sure it is Nuetralized before staining.
Tsp
Naval jelly
Lemon juice and salt
Calcium lime rust remover product

What's Dutchman?
I tried the four plus a pencil eraser. The eraser made it worse.
All four worked to some degree. I dabbed on and waited 15 minutes. Then wet vacuumed excess off and then blotted and rinsed with water and then vacuum again.

The naval jelly worked the best.these are before and after pics










One thing I need to keep in mind is that he can sand these spots heavy after i treat spots or they will come back. I will only be able to re


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Ok how do I use the barkeeper friend?
Just scour it?


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

A Dutchman is a patch of thin wood. You can either match the surrounding grain/colour, or make it a contrasting design. Route out a recess to house the patch ( enough to cover the defect) and glue the patch in.


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

Oxalic acid will likely work. You can buy it in crystaline form as wood bleach at a store that sells professional finishing supplies. You mix the oxalic acid crystals with hot water until you have a saturated solution, meaning that no more crystals will dissolve into the hot water. Just brush the solution onto the surface and let it dry. If the stains aren't entirely gone, repeat the process as necessary. After the stains are gone, neutralize the surface with a solution of baking soda and water, as you've been doing. I'm a little bit surprised that the naval jelly is removing the black stains as well as the rust, unless of course, the naval jelly contains oxalic, as well as phosphoric acid. If it works, it works. As others have said, barkeeper's friend contains oxalic acid, as does Dutch boy cleanser. I'd apply either of those with just enough water to make a thin paste and then wait and neutralize as described above.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

So my first question is how can I neutralize this without baking soda? Can I just repeatedly rinse with water?

OK. So I used the baking soda as a wet paste as a neutralizer for a few spots and let sit 20 minutes.
The *dark stains came back and the stain actually wicked out into the board more than before leaving a large dull stain extending 1lmost 2 inches around the initial nail hole.* 
This is not your fault I was going to try this anyway. 
So I made a thick paste of barkeepers friend and applied. Waited 20 minutes and then vacuumed off excess. 
I used a wet vac and a small paint brush to apply water and sucked it up immediately. I did this several times to each spot. 
This removed the stain.

So my question is… What if I don't use baking soda to neutralize?

Also, naval jelly does not have oxalic acid per their tech team.

If I had it to do over again I would use a child's medicine syringe to carefully apply a thick glob of naval jelly and leave on 10 minutes and then suck it off with vac and then light rinse with water. After letting sit overnight I would then rinse several times with water and vac it up. 
Here is the before and after when I did just the naval jelly. 









After naval









Can I get away with just rinsing with water a second time as described above?


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Finisherman,
What if I don't neutralize the naval jelly or the barkeepers friend?
When I did the baking soda paste it brought the stain back with a vengeance? 
Can I just repeatedly saturate with water and vacuuming up?


> Oxalic acid will likely work. You can buy it in crystaline form as wood bleach at a store that sells professional finishing supplies. You mix the oxalic acid crystals with hot water until you have a saturated solution, meaning that no more crystals will dissolve into the hot water. Just brush the solution onto the surface and let it dry. If the stains aren t entirely gone, repeat the process as necessary. After the stains are gone, neutralize the surface with a solution of baking soda and water, as you ve been doing. I m a little bit surprised that the naval jelly is removing the black stains as well as the rust, unless of course, the naval jelly contains oxalic, as well as phosphoric acid. If it works, it works. As others have said, barkeeper s friend contains oxalic acid, as does Dutch boy cleanser. I d apply either of those with just enough water to make a thin paste and then wait and neutralize as described above.
> 
> - Finisherman


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I personally really like the nail stains! They add character and aren't the least bit offensive to me. I'd leave em.

People pay extra for wood with character like yours!


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Thank you. 
I realize that, but I don't like them. 
Unless you want to buy this reclaimed white oak 2" planks for $15 a foot?


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Different strokes for different folks.

That's why they make Fords and Chevys, blondes, brunettes…...........


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

You can try applying your finish without neutralizing the acid, but you risk having your finish fail sooner or later. If you can't use the baking soda, I suggest that you substitute several applications of distilled water. I suspect that the minerals in your city water, rather than the baking soda, might be the culprit. Try mixing the baking soda with distilled water, rather than with tap water. Also, you don't need to use the baking soda as a paste. Just dissolve several teaspoons into a quart of water. Best of luck.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

I will try several applications of distilled water and the shop vac.

*Is the barkeepers friend a good option for lightening the entire area? *
When I stand back the area looks blotchy. 
These blotches are from the pet stains and from the very light areas where I used the Barkeepers friend.


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

You normally have to bleach the entire surface in order to avoid an uneven bleach job. Don't try to "spot bleach." You're much better off treating the whole surface in the same manner. I think that you might be better served by using the oxalic acid solution described above if you need to bleach the entire surface. You'll likely get the most "bang for your buck that way", assuming that you are able to access crystalline oxalic acid.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Ok. So I have two rooms from the front door leading into the dining room. As you look from the front door to the dining room you see a lot of light but visible discoloration from, I believe, pet stains.
Correct me if I am wrong.
I was going to mix as directed and do one application over the pet stains area. Then do a second application over the entire dining room.
What say you?

Also I bought this


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

I can't edit post. I bought pure oxalic acid


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

How long should this dry before staining?


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

I think that your strategy will work well. If I were you, I'd apply the oxalic acid solution to the area with the pet stains and then apply the solution to the entire floor without letting the first area dry out too much. After you neutralize and rinse the surface, I'd allow the floor to dry for at least a couple of days. Let me know how it turns out. Have a great day.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

The instruction on the box say " after desired color is attained.Rinse floor thoroughly with water and neutralize any left over acid with BORAX. 
They sell that at the supermarket. 
1. How can I tell which or where it is still active.
2. Can I just rinse 2 or three times with distilled water?

But I am *nervous* about bringing back all the stains like happened with the baking soda.
But I am using only distilled water on the advice of another member.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Actually, I fogot to go over the stain area twice. 
What I did was put some tape down for reference. I saturated the stained part more then removed the tape and went over the rest a little lighter. 
I used a paint brush to do individual boards the went into untreated areas so it woulnt just stop abruptly.

Should I let it dry entirely? Then wash up?


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

OK. So I am totally obsessing over this, but I am a realtor and I know that spot on hardwood floors are really important to first impressions.

I called Savogran who makes a wood bleach that is 99.9% oxalic acid.

He said to let the floor dry completely for a few hours. 
then use a *solution of 1 heaping tablespoon of baking soda in a gallon of water.* 
He said *damp cloth wipe on, immediately dry cloth wipe off. Don't saturate it. *


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

I'd follow the advice of the Savogran technician. He is likely very familiar with the workings of the product.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Well I spoke to another Savogran tech for a different and he said I had to damp wipe it three times before neutralizing. 
Ugh… my knees.

And I used baking soda to neutralize the acid on my hands and the cuticles turned black. So now I am even more nervous about using baking soda to neutralize.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Update. 
No gloves plus rinsing floor plus rinsing hand with baking soda to neutralize acid on hands = purple black hands


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, good thing you've got some Barkeeper's Friend to remove the purple on your hands….


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

I kind of like it. I saw a pirate movie where there was some kind of "Black hand of Death!"


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

You might want to wear gloves with the oxalic acid. It's very poisonous and can irritate or even burn your skin. I also seem to recall reading that it can be absorbed through the skin. God only gave you one set of kidneys and you need them. Consult the MSDS for oxalic acid for more details.


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## Canofworms (Apr 15, 2014)

Ok. Kidneys are intact. 
I have an update.
I refinished a table and put several thin coats of matte finish poly on it.
Then I waxed it with butchers wax.
It has a great organic feel to it. Almost like smooth skin.. It's pretty stain resistant, but someone left a cloth with some kind of cleaner that left a 3" by 1/4" black stain on it. It was through the finish and into the wood.
I sanded that spot with. Scotch pad and used oxallic acid mixture applied very carelly with a toothpick.
It started out black.
After about a dozen applications over the course of an hour the stain came out.
I washed it with just water and revealed the spot. Presto… Stain gone.
But I didn't neutralize it.
4 months later the stain is back but lighter after the table got cleaned with glass cleaner with vinegar
This time I did not strip it. I just put the oxallic acid on with a toothpick. Viola.. Three applications and it is gone. 
I don't have a before pic, but here it is after through the thin poly.









So, I then tried it on some stains on the hardwood floor that have come back.
I believe one member said if they get wet they will come back.
Many spots have come back to some extent, but not as bad a they were.
So here are the pictures of the floor stains before and after… With no sanding, just on top of te poly.
Before


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