# Centering Microscope is a Winner!



## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

You've won me over *darth'*... and thank you for the post (before I forget after the drooling).

I have the *Veritas gizmo* for menial operations, which I swear by (without the obligatory cuss words).

I have lasers attached to my DP, but all that really does is point to the target… not much for "honing in" on the spot.

Can I borrow your account? Much as I am not overly price conscious for what I think may be a worthwhile expense, the $478 price tag (including postage), would redirect my next unnecessary Fe*$*tool purchase onto the backburner.

I have made some high end pens in the past where centre drilling some blanks can waste an expensive $25 blank if I'm even 1mm out of centre.


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

Pretty darned amazing. Is it fixed in alignment from the factory or does it have an alignment adjustment? The price I kind of get. I think QC and precision machining need be top notch for repeat accuracy. Not sure I'd want one though. I'd probably find I need a new drill press due to excessive run out… ; )


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I've been a fan of the MSC approach. Have a mild heart attack, then see the discount from signing in, plus any running deals such as more % off and free shipping (even for 6' lengths of steel rod 8^) and it all gets better!

Generally I hate it when you have to hunt down the discounts, but when it is something unique or oversized, not so bad.

That centering device is pretty cool! Not having one, I typically will mark with a marking knife, then use a center punch which tends to fall into the marking knife grooves to make a drill guide divot. This usually gets me close enough but never "perfect".

If I had a milling machine that could make use of that microscopes accuracy, I'd love to own one!


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

*RCCinNC* the crosshair is adjustable for machine runout or machine misalignment.

*splintergroup* for metal I mark with a carbide scribe and use the trick you use letting the punch follow the line. Then its a coin toss whether my punch smushes off to one side when punched. So I do a light punch then if its off I'm tilting the punch to try to push it back on center. Then trying to center on that punch mark. The whole process is WAY more time consuming than just using the scope. No punch needed. I spot drilled those 4 holes with a 3/16 bit then drilled them 5/16.

*littleBlackDuck* I don't always need microscope accuracy but when I do this thing is the best. Other times it's just faster and easier to see. If I'm punching a hole in something with lots of slop I won't bother with the scope.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Yep! My problem is as you describe, basically measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, then cut with an ax.

Usually my center punch mark is centered on the scribe marks within one diameter of the punch point 8^), Then the divot can pull (bend) the drill bit from its offset location into the divot. Aligning the drill axis to the mark in one accurate step would be a vast improvement for accuracy (if all my drill bits weren't slightly bent 8^)

Maybe the Duckster could swap out his drill press laser pointer with something stronger and just burn the hole through?


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

LOL my $2,000 Powermatic drill press laser was adjusted at the factory. Yeah, it's at least 1 inch off center. (face palm)


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

Here's an interesting discussion of centering microscopes. The consensus seems to be that they are highly specialized pieces of equipment that get little use, except in some cases where they are the best tool for the job. Drilling out the center of a smaller broken screw is one of those areas when the microscope excels.

For the poor man's version, see response #35. Here's the text:

"Seeing the crazy low prices of USB Microscopes these days, I have made up a suitable holder which allows one to be mounted in the collect chuck of my Beaver Turret Mill. It plugs into my Android phone and gives a great image using OTG View app (free). It looks a bit "old school" since it is made up from scrap bits in the workshop. However it works really well. 
It is self calibrating simply by rotating the milling shaft "to & fro" half a turn. The image rotates, but whatever stays still is in the centre! So its easy to line the quill up with centre of studs to be drilled out, or pop marks etc. See enclosed video showing it being centred over a pop mark."


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

> The consensus seems to be that they are highly specialized pieces of equipment that get little use
> 
> - Sark


I have read that thread before, I disagree with the 'consensus' of a handful of people some of them knuckleheads. I have owned this scope before, used it frequently, sold it when I sold off my metalworking equipment. Regretted it. Glad to have it again.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

All my centering problems were solved when I upgraded my set of 1mm through 13mm (Chinese made, $2 for the lot) for a set of straight drill bits with a reputable branding.

Just kidding… Thought I'd be *"clever"* and create an account to see if can match your discount. Turns out that I already had an account, as I was reprimanded by that bloody computer for trying to steal an existing member's identity.
Unfortunately logging on, only merited me a $20 discount. which would be doubly swallowed up by onforwarding fees from my "US address".

Still think it would be a great addition for my *Voyager*... hmm, *cry once*!


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I have an old set of these which work well enough if you don ye-olde reading glasses and do the alignment. Super simple if your whatever machine has an x/y table otherwise you end up tapping a part around with deftly placed mallet whacks.

Cheap option anyway!


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Cheap option anyway!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Refuse to go cheap.. the last cheap set I got was this,








The only good punch was the one with the pointy tip they left out.


> Maybe the Duckster could swap out his drill press laser pointer with something stronger and just burn the hole through?
> - splintergroup


Ridiculous thought to consider mounting my laser on the DP….

A more practical solution was to put the DP in the laser box…. unfortunately the height of the box is 400mm and the DP is 1794mm high… laying it on it's side (the DP) kinda defeated the purpose.

*PS.* You can't fool the duck by editing your comment… it sees everything.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Moss doesn't grow under a ducks feet,









My only regret is procrastination for all those one day*s*! I now get to use it one day sooner than if I ordered it tomorrow… great *opportunity cost* savings!

Thanks, for the review *darth*.

*PS.* Thanks to the compliment of *Rich*... could fund this venture after I discovered the Fe*$*tool planer didn't come in a cordless outfit.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Have had this cordless one for well over 20 years,









and will treasure it for a further 20 years even after receiving my *Centering Microscope*.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

> Refuse to go cheap
> - LittleBlackDuck


Every time I go cheap I get burned. For example, $58 for this "*These 36" Bevel Edge Straight Edges are made from hardened steel with satin chrome finish and are precision ground and lapped for straightness and parallelism.*" Oh man, precision ground and lapped for straightness you say, for only $58? Arrived with severe bow along the edge and bowed along the flat it takes real talent to manufacture something that out of whack, RETURNED!

Gave up trying to save a buck and just bite the bullet now. On occasion though, THIS set of precision squares is the best value on the internet. You get exactly what is pictured here, the case, all 4 squares etched with the info. Do not be fooled by other sellers who use this photo but you only get 3 of the 4 squares, you don't get the case, there's no info etched on the squares lots of complaints from people about that. Northern Tool is the man!

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200667463_200667463?cm_mmc=Housefile-_-RECEIVED-_-707-_-CONF

*LittleBlackDuck* congrats on your scope order!


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

I also have the *go best* attitude… or at least upper end and maybe work back a tad.
Sometimes I've got stung getting the most expensive, however, it's not as bad buying *something cheaper* than buying crap and always having to *spend much more*.

This all stems back to when I was initially married. The missus of the time, didn't object to me getting the best, but at first she insisted I buy the cheap one, to "try/evaluate". Inevitably when that broke or proved inappropriate, there was no criticism of me buying the dear unit, in fact many time she went and bought it without the need for the *bull prod*... just kidding about the prod, I used a whip… but every time I had to waste money on the cheap one first.
At least when I got divorced, it cost me a fortune in settlement, but I save bucketloads of shekels in not having to buy a crap one first.


> *LittleBlackDuck* congrats on your scope order!
> - darthford


Thx… we'll be able to share those close ups that others can only dreamed about.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Any other bunny out there with shekels to burn, this eBay link is a tad cheaper for the same branded item from *MSC Direct* without *darth*'s generous discount..


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm starting to wonder if my MSC discount was an error or something.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> I m starting to wonder if my MSC discount was an error or something.
> 
> - darthford


I think you should take it back or offer them the 45% + bonus… I would if it was your money… which it is.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

> I m starting to wonder if my MSC discount was an error or something.
> 
> - darthford
> 
> ...


Checked just now and still getting the big discount. They have 90 in stock, I should buy them all and resell them on ebay. lol Oh wait, dealing with 90 ebay buyers I'd lose my mind.


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## gdaveg (Aug 1, 2020)

Our shop in AZ has the laser PM drill press. It is only a rough idea of where the drill will hit. About 1/8" off diagonally from drill bit entry into wood. Do love the PM DP though it is great.


> LOL my $2,000 Powermatic drill press laser was adjusted at the factory. Yeah, it s at least 1 inch off center. (face palm)
> 
> - darthford


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Checked just now and still getting the big discount. They have 90 in stock, I should buy them all and resell them on ebay. lol Oh wait, dealing with 90 ebay buyers I d lose my mind.
> - darthford


Maybe they're *ducking* my discount… logged in with my account and still,









Would have taken up your suggestion had I not already bought elsewhere.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

> Checked just now and still getting the big discount. They have 90 in stock, I should buy them all and resell them on ebay. lol Oh wait, dealing with 90 ebay buyers I d lose my mind.
> - darthford
> 
> Maybe they re *ducking* my discount… logged in with my account and still,
> ...


Actually you are not getting a discount at all for having an account, that $20 off is the savings you get without an account if you check out as a guest.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Actually you are not getting a discount at all for having an account, that $20 off is the savings you get without an account if you check out as a guest.
> - darthford


I have an account and logged in. 








They provided a discount code that dropped $40 off. 








I remember I created an account a few years ago when I bought a swag of *button nuts* off them…
(check them out if you haven't heard/used them)
Not to worry, the other is still $70 cheaper… ordered elsewhere and already being shipped… maybe if I need another one.

Thanks for your assist… appreciated.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

Okay that makes more sense, you basically got another $21 off with your account. Still seems very odd the discount difference between our accounts would be so large. I never bought that much stuff from them I'm not a business and this was my first purchase in probably 4-5 years, weird.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Okay that makes more sense, you basically got another $21 off with your account. Still seems very odd the discount difference between our accounts would be so large. I never bought that much stuff from them I m not a business and this was my first purchase in probably 4-5 years, weird.
> 
> - darthford


I'm no business either but those *button nuts* were harder to ignore than this *'cope*... and *button nuts* are not readily available in downtown *Churchill* or even outside, in the rest of Australia… like everything else, 'cept *C19*.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Button nuts!
Button nuts I hear you say?
How many did you order, sizes and where from?


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

This site (*MSC Direct*)... about 4 of each 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4"... searched high and low locally, but couldn't find any… surely someone sells them… could've just about bought the Fe*$*tool factory in Germany.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Everyone likes to save a buck when they can, but I would never skimp on any tool where accuracy is primary, like precision tools. If it isn't laid out to precise dimensions before making your first cut, you are on the path to failure. A "precision" tool from HF may or may not be accurate; hard to tell; best to eliminate all possible errors by using top quality precision tools from Starrett, Mitutoyo, B&S, etc. If all dimensions are laid out and verified, the rest is easy.

I would like to have a centering microscope, but too rich for my blood. One thing that negates a centering microscope, is: although it will center exactly, that is no guarantee that the drill will be centered. Drill bits can wander off center if they are not ground properly. The only way to get an accurate drilled hole, is to scribe lines, center punch, use a centering drill and then drill the hole. Not really necessary for woodworking, but essential for metal working.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

> The only way to get an accurate drilled hole, is to scribe lines, center punch, use a centering drill and then drill the hole. Not really necessary for woodworking, but essential for metal working.
> 
> - MrRon


Untold millions of holes are drilled accurately on CNC machines with no scribed lines or center punching. They do spot drill with a very rigid spot drill bit but we are back to your point about using quality tools right which I completely agree with. Quality bits and a spot drill bit and you are good to go with a centering scope! I still scribe and center punch when I'm drilling with a hand drill.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

Photo for Tim. Here you see the scope is 3.060 inches tall including the 1 inch 3/8 diameter shank you chuck in the drill press.

It's quite compact you only need about 3.125 inches of space between the drill press chuck and top of the workpiece for the scope. It comes into sharp focus about 1 inch from the workpiece so chuck the scope, lower with the drill press arms until it comes into sharp focus. I then lock my drill press quill, this frees my hands to position the workpiece under the scope crosshair and clamp. Now simply raise the scope, remove, insert your drill bit and drill the hole.


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## trsnider (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks!


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

> Photo for Tim. Here you see the scope is 3.060 inches tall including the 1 inch 3/8 diameter shank you chuck in the drill press.
> 
> It s quite compact you only need about 3.125 inches of space between the drill press chuck and top of the workpiece for the scope. It comes into sharp focus about 1 inch from the workpiece so chuck the scope, lower with the drill press arms until it comes into sharp focus. I then lock my drill press quill, this frees my hands to position the workpiece under the scope crosshair and clamp. Now simply raise the scope, remove, insert your drill bit and drill the hole.
> 
> ...


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Ordered on the 3rd. and received today (16th)... under 2 weeks… In Australia we often wait 1 month to get an item ordered from less than 200km away.

Thanks for the heads-up… have not tried it yet… just sitting back admiring the gold printed black box.


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