# Specific question on LV Low Angle Jack



## bloqbeta (Jun 19, 2012)

Hey everybody,

I received my second plane a couple of days ago, the Veritas LA Jack. It was the best decision after buying my first plane, a Woodriver No. 4, and I am eager to try it as soon as possible.

I also went the whole way and bought the three additional blades: 38°, 50°, and the toothed one. Before getting them sharpened I did due diligence and found Derek from Perth's article on cambering LA blades and that it is easier to do it on 25° angle blades and then raise their angle. The theory is clear to me so now I have to decide what to do with my blades, here is what I plan to do:

1. Leave the 25° PV-11 blade for shooting. No Camber on it
2. I would like to use one blade as a Jack, to hog away and dimension. Even though Derek states that it will take quite a long time, I think I'll camber the 38° blade using the Charlesworth method in DMT Coarse Stone, followed by a bester 1200 watersone and finishing with a bester 4000 waterstone.
3. I don´t have a clue what to do with the 50° blade. Should I use it as a super smoother, with a minute camber on it?

Would like to have the opinion of everybody that owns or have used this remarkable plane. Buying another 25° blade is not an option right now, I have everything flown down to Guatemala where I live and freight forwarding is pretty expensive.


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

I have the LN LA jack and i love it, I'm sure the Veritas will be a great plane.

My first question for you is , how do you like your #4? If it's good, you really don't need the jack to do smoothing as you have a dedicated smoother. I would use the jack as a jack, and a jointer, since you don't mention having a dedicated jointer.

The higher angle blades are really useful/needed for difficult grain, not particularly for the application (smoothing, jack, jointing).

In direct response to you post:

1) Yes, for shooting I would use a straight blade, as you stated, and 25deg should be fine.

2) Yes, you want to camber your jack blade, and use a relatively wide mouth to pass the larger shavings. I don't find it takes very long at all cambering the blade using the Charlesworth method and water stones; yes a grinder could be quicker. I have a Jet wet sharpener and the cambering jig and I'm not sure that is really much faster, and it's harder to control.

For jointing you use a less camberd blade (or rounded corners) and a tighter mouth, since you take lighter cuts.

For smoothing, you want a slight camber, or just rounded off corners, and a still tighter mouth (and lighter cut) to get a smoother cut.

You can use the 25deg blade for any application. Higher angles will work as well, but are harder to push and not required if you don't need the higher angle for difficult figure.

3) As mentioned, the 50deg blade is good for difficult grain, and could be used as either a jack, or a jointer.

You might want to consider getting a few more blades for you #4 (or a few more planes ;-) ) set up with different angles. If you run into really nasty grain you'll need a cabinet scraper.

Have fun with the new toy, I mean tool


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## bloqbeta (Jun 19, 2012)

Thank you jmos,

The WR No 4 is fine, in fact, I have 2, the first one came with a defect on the sole and woodcraft sent me another one. It works fine, it does not have the best feel in my hand and started freehand sharpening its blade. Even though I am very good at sharpening knives, I still cant figure out plane and chisel steel. I just bought my eclipse and did the charlesworth method and it worked wonderfully.

I am sure I will now make the WR sing. In the other hand, yes, I want to use the LA Jack as a Jack and Jointer primarily and as a shooting plane. I work with some ribbon mahogany that is difficult to tame and also Palo Blanco or Primavera. Il Try to joint those with the 50° blade. My main concern is with the time sharpening the camber with this wide bevel angle. another question, How big a camber should I shoot for a Jack setup, 1/8" from center to corner?


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm sure there are a thousand opinions on this; there's a Fine Woodworking video by Phillip Lowe where he recommends 1/16" for a scrub, 1/32" for a jack, and 1/64" for both jointers and smoothers. All measured as the difference from the center of the blade to the corners. Some list the curvature as a radius, where you lay out the arc from the center of the blade, say 8" or 6". I find 1/32" more useful.

With the Charlesworth method it goes pretty quick on a 1000grit stone, but you could try a 220 grit stone for really quick work of the camber.

If the first #4 you have is serviceable, I'd set one up with a 25deg bevel and one with a 35 to 40deg bevel and then you can reach for whichever you need depending on grain.


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## bloqbeta (Jun 19, 2012)

Hey JMOS, did the sharpening on the 38° blade, I knocked down the sides with the 220 diamond stone, 8 strokes on the corners, followed by the 1200 grit: 24 strokes on the corners, 12 midway and 4 center, and then polished the camber.

It came out pretty good, looks like a jointer camber, I´ll need to try it this weekend and see if it needs more camber. How do you polish the face of the blade? do you do the ruler trick? Veritas blades are supposed to be very flat, I did polishing without the ruler trick and the burr came off. It should be easier with the ruler trick…


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

I assume you mean the back of the blade; the side without the bevel.

I have a couple of Veritas and LN planes, and I always do a complete back flattening anyway. Most of the time it is quick as the quality of both manufacturers is good, but I have had ones that needed some work. I think it's worth checking. I take the whole back through 1000 and 4000 grit (using Charlesworth's two motions, across the stone and in and out, if you know what I mean), and use the ruler trick for the 8000grit. After initial flattening I just use the ruler trick and the 8000grit stone. Seems to work pretty well for me.


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## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

2. I would like to use one blade as a Jack, to hog away and dimension. Even though Derek states that it will take quite a long time, I think I'll camber the 38° blade using the Charlesworth method in DMT Coarse Stone, followed by a bester 1200 watersone and finishing with a bester 4000 waterstone.

To do his, mark an 8" radius camber on the back of the blade, then grind the curve square to the back of the blade. Do not try to grind a 25 degree bevel to the camber straight away (although that is how I did it in my article - I was using a cool running belt grinder). You will never camber the blade freehand! Use a grinder. Once the flat curve is done, grind a 25 degree cambered bevel.

3. I don´t have a clue what to do with the 50° blade. Should I use it as a super smoother, with a minute camber on it?

First try grinding away the corners and using it like that. I find this does not work well for me, but others swear by it.

I reground my 50 degree blades to 25 degrees. It sounds a lot, but you do not lose any blade length at all.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Have fun with your new planes Ebanisteria!


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## bloqbeta (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks for all of your input, my house is under construction right now and I can't play with my planes in my inlaws's house. Nevertheless I played with them on Saturday in my woodworking classes and here are the results:

The 25° Blade is SHARP! It left significant tracks since it has 0 camber in it… but it was fun to take half thou shavings! hope to build some shooting boards soon…

The 38° cambered blade worked, but had shavings fit for a smoother… maximum width of shavings w/o leaving tracks, about a thou.

Didn't even try the 50° blade…. the toothed blade was fun to use…. hope to use it functionally in the future…

What now?

I'll try to continue cambering the 38° Blade. I haven't developed the skill under the grinder, It is hi speed and I always find out a way to untemper the blade.

Derek's recommendation of re-grounding the primary angle sounds doable. I'll give it some thought and I will come back with the results…


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

Using the eclipse style gauge I've cambered a number of blades on waterstones; it takes a bit of patience, but it's doable. Strictly freehand; that's not something I would try.

Do you have 220grit stone? that will remove more metal a lot faster.


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## bloqbeta (Jun 19, 2012)

I have another question. Will I experience tearout with the camber on the 38° blade? Or is it normal to have tearout with any attack angle using the Jack Plane? Rembember I want to hog off material with the 38° blade.

Today I will continue making a camber to the 38°blade.


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

I use the toothed iron as a scrub plane to hog off, flatten and remove any twist. It's a lot easier than using one of the other irons. Once I have a board flat I run it thru the planer to clean up both sides. To get a completely smooth finish on the face I either use a scraper or the Veritas scraper plane. When you buy another plane you'll get another 25° so camber one and keep one flat. However, I hardly use the 25°. I use the 38° to finish side grain and the 50° on the shooting board to finish end grain.

Changing the pitch. It's like - why? With the 25-38 & 50 you have what you need.

For tearout … keep the mouth open just slightly and most of all plane with the grain.


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## bloqbeta (Jun 19, 2012)

Hey Southpaw, thanks for your input… Your approach is interesting. How do you prepare the toothed blade? I guess that tracks don't matter then since you are leaving a "toothed" surface, ready for smoothing. Do you camber it like a Scrub?

The only problem I see I would have is that I don't have a planer so I have to dimension everything by hand… It is not difficult if you have the right planes… So I need control on how much or how little I have to hog away with the Jack…

Another Question, How difficult is to Shoot with the 50° on end grain? is it harder to push? I really need to set up shop soon to try everything, is really dissapointing I cannot play with the plane.


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

All I do on my toothed iron is sharpen it once in awhile … no camber. I've used it so much to thickness and prepare face stock that I'm actually missing a few teeth on it. But it is about 7 yrs old. The Jack plane with the toothed iron is my first step. Using the toothed iron is like using a scrub … you go all over the face of the board in all directions.

To thickness a board just do go overboard. Like a scrub, it takes off a lot of wood fast.

Using the 50° on end grain on a shooting board isn't all that much harder than using any of the others. OK, maybe a little, but it won't break your arm or anything. You'll be glad you did when you see the end product.

When I'm finished with the toothed iron I'll put the 38° in the jack and use it to smooth out the tooth marks and then put in the 50° and use it as a smoother. My final step is to use my scraper plane or just a scraper. Like I said … I hardly use the 25° iron at all anymore.

Take a look at my recent floating top tables project. The tops which are 22" x 22" were done using my jack plane and the various irons along with the scrapers. You can see they are too big to go through a planer, so I had to do them all by hand.


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## bloqbeta (Jun 19, 2012)

Southpaw,

Thanks for your answer, I have just looked at your floating tables and those are just the results I want for my projects… I think I will stick with your system for a while and come back with the results… I am starting a TV media stand and is all panel based, sides top-bottom, and a shelve, perfect for trying it this way. Thanks for your help


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

Remember to cut your panels larger than you need because you will have some tearout on the edges. Remember to go in all directions, not just with the grain, with the toothed iron. And check your progress often so you don't go overboard.


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

A recent addition to YouTube from Highland Woodworking 



 I don't know if you've started, but this guy flattens a big board the same way I do and notice the iron he started with. Of course, sometimes you can't use a planer, so it's hand work all the way. But the hard part is flattening.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Morton ended up being a sweaty man. Got to respect that.


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