# Knives and chisels sharpening using waterstone do i have the right mix of stones



## KCOlsen (Sep 27, 2020)

for many years i sharpened my chisels and knives on the grinder now im trying to hoe my skills using water stones, I presently have the following
220 diamond stone
325 diamond stone 
800 water stone 
1200 water stone
4000 water stone 
8000 water stone
my question do I have too many stones?
the jump from 1200 to 4000 seems rather large
do I need an intermediate stone
is waterstones the best way to go 
I now use a veteris honing jig before it was just my crooked eye. 

I seem to get good results but not the real sharp edge that i have seen 
Thanks for any advise


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

KCOlsen said:


> *my question do I have too many stones?*


KC - you know the answer to that already. One can not have enough hammers, routers, drills, etc etc etc. It is totally YOUR call of how many of what to have. AND - your skill level of using them properly AND how often you use them.
There is no right or wrong answer here. (I think I have twice that many in my box and actually only use a handfull of them).


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## DavePolaschek (Oct 21, 2016)

You probably don’t need all of those stones, and you’re missing an absurdly high-grit stone for a mirror finish (I use the 16,000 grit water stone for knives I want to show off).

As for best, whatever you actually use to keep things sharp is best. If you sharpen frequently and don’t abuse your knives, you can probably start right with the 1200 water stone most of the time.


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## mpounders (Jun 22, 2010)

The only time I use any type of stone on my knives and gouges is when I have damaged the edge, broken a tip, or can not get it cutting well by stropping with compound on a leather or cloth wheel. I have not found any advantage to sharpening by hand except occasionally on V tools that have been damaged. The smaller ones can be particularly stubborn on occasion, when I am trying to get them to cut again. I primarily sharpen with a Burke sharpener which has a couple of wooden wheels covered in sandpaper, one covered in leather, and a cloth buffing wheel and the motor speed is reduced with pulleys to around 400 rpm. As you already know, when you sharpen by hand, you have to maintain the correct angle as you move the tool over the stones, and you have to maintain that angle with each pass, being careful not to roll over the edge. With the Burke sharpener, I just have to hold the tool at the correct angle to the wheel. I hold the tool steady at the desired angle and the wheel does all the moving. It usually takes less than a minute per tool and most of that is testing to make sure it is cutting a piece of wood like I want. Now, I am mostly stropping/buffing the edge with compound on the leather and cloth wheels, but it has been years since most have my tools have required anything more than that. I carve almost every day, mainly basswood, but occasionaly harder stuff and I own a lot of carving tools. If I attempted to keep all of my tools sharpened by hand, it would seriously limit the time I could spend carving. A Burke sharpener is not inexpensive, but when you start adding up diamond stones, and water stones, and jigs, flat surfaces, etc, it can start adding up. And don't forget your time! Sure, you are unlikely to burn your tool using a Tormek, but it runs so slow! I place my finger close to the edge of my tool when I hold it on the Burke's wheels and when It gets warm enough to feel on my finger, I remove it and douse it in water. I own a variety of different stones and other sharpening methods, but the Burke is what works for me!


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## KCOlsen (Sep 27, 2020)

thanks for all the help never used compound on a leather or cloth wheel. thanks for all the info i do like the vertis jig for sharpening
thanks again


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## jwoodcraft (7 mo ago)

Water stones are great for chisels and plane blades, but for carving gouges, etc., not as great since they are soft, easily gouged and go out of flat quickly. For flat chisels, etc., keeping the stones flat is key.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

I Use three Japanese KING Stones (#800. #1200 and #8000) and a Leather Strop with the Green Honing Compound
The #800 removes nicks faster. #1200 to get the right bevel. #8000 for the edge honing. I finish the process on the leather Strop to get the blade really sharp.


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## Watercolor (Aug 27, 2013)

Same as moai. I rarely use the 800.
I also use wet dry sand paper for restoration of blades.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Imo 1200 is sharp enough for woodworking generally but if you go finer the edge lasts longer. If you're not getting an edge that will easily shave the hair off your arm you likely have a technique problem. Water stones work great and they're what I use but if I were buying today I'd look at the glass plate stones like the Shaptons.


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## JohnCageBubblegum (8 mo ago)

I go from 4000 water stone to strop and it works fine for me.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

When I still used a stone, it was a Hard Arkansas. Now I use 800 grit WetorDry sandpaper and cardboard with green compound for stropping - carving gouges and knives.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 missing finest grit or a honing step.
Cheaper to use leather/mdf with honing compound, then buy the expensive 10-13K grit stones when you are learning.

IMHO - Key to any sharpening method is learning how to obtain a wire edge at each grit, and remove it safely without damaging the fresh edge. 
If you don't feel a wire edge being raised on back side, then you are doing something wrong. 

For example: using a push stroke with too much force/speed, will often break off the wire edge, leaving ragged edge, forcing you to start over. Safest method when learning is pull strokes only to gain a wire edge; then remove a wire edge with a single stroke of back edge on next finest stone, before returning to sharpening the front edge.

Another suggestion to help you learn how to get sharp edges on chisels is research the: Unicorn sharpening method. 
IME the unicorn method is another example where creating a wire edge, and the proper removal; is the key to a sharp and durable edge.

Best Luck.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

KCOlsen said:


> for many years i sharpened my chisels and knives on the grinder now im trying to hoe my skills using water stones, I presently have the following
> 220 diamond stone
> 325 diamond stone
> 800 water stone
> ...


It’s a very good mix, pretty much identical to mine, except 1250 and below are diamond plates.

You don’t need to go above 8000. I have a 16K Shapton, I can’t tell the difference b/t 8000 and a strop. Unnecessary for chisels, but I use on plane irons for irregular grain.

On a touch up I typically go from 1250 diamond to 8000 water. I do about 3x the number if strokes.

I can help you if you’re not getting the results you want, but there are so many nuances to honing you need to describe your technique in detail. There are two big keys & where the fault usually lies:

1) Don’t advance until you feel a burr. I remove the burr each time before going up, some debate that.
2) Always hone on a secondary bevel. I hollow grind chisels and plane irons.
And, 3) Water stones MUST be flat. Be careful of “flattening stones” - sometimes they are not flat! I use the black DMT grit diamond plate (300?) for flattening.

I don’t usually bus a jig, when I do I use an Ecliose type usually to correct or establish an even secondary bevel after hollow grinding. During a prolonged task I keep a strop handy in the bench. Just MDF + green paste. I do not like leather straps b/c I think they can dub the edge (IMO).


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Your choice of sharpening materials will not assure success in sharp tools. It depends entirely on the skills that you bring to the process. Keep practicing until you get it.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

I purchased a single sided leather stropping pad on sale for about $9.00, about a year ago. Sure made a big difference. It was a 2"x9" leather strap glued to a 14" board. Similar to this Amazon.com: LAVODA Paddle Strop 2" by 9" Double-sided Leather Strop with Green White Compounds Kit Knife Stropping Block for Woodworking Sharpening Honing Knives Leather Knife Sharpening Polishing : Tools & Home Improvement

After going through the grits, I strop the chisel or knife blades about 60 times. Sure shines up the blades and makes them scary sharp.

You can get the same results using a brown paper bag or the cardboard from a cereal box.


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## wyzarddoc (2 mo ago)

I have just about every sharpening gadget you can imagine tormak, work sharp, water stones to 12,000 grit, diamond stones to very fine. The thing I like the most is 3M™ Individual Sheets Diamond Lapping / Microfinishing Film PSA just get a piece of glass or granite tile from the big box store and go to work. I use my work sharp with the leather strop and green paste. I don't stop till the back looks like a mirror. Next I work on the cutting angle/edge. Every few cuts I strop the edge again. I have used mdf with diamond paste but like a leather strop best. Like someone else said practice on a old knife/blade till you can get the edge you want.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

WoodenDreams said:


> After going through the grits, I strop the chisel or knife blades about 60 times. Sure shines up the blades and makes them scary sharp.


If you’ve honed to 8k, 5-10 strokes are all it takes —if it takes any at all. If you haven‘t, then you should consider going higher. @ 8000 and higher you are polishing and really don’t even need to strop. If you’re not going that high and rely on stropping, you’re trying to correct an error.

IMO you have to be careful doing that many strokes on a leather strop, especially if you’re bearing down as some people advise. You will dub the edge and actually make it duller. MDF or hardwood charged with rouge works better.

There are basic principles, but as with everything sharpening, whatever you think works, works!


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