# What did I do wrong?



## thewfool (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm a beginner with woodworking, so I'm trying to be as safe as possible. However, there are some things that I just don't seem to know.

I was working with a piece of hard maple, ripping it into smaller sections on my table saw. I was able to complete three cuts similar to the one pictured below with no issues, but on this last cut, the board jumped up and back at me. It wasn't very hard and didn't go very much out of control. I was pushing with a push stick. Can anyone tell me what's wrong with this setup … and more importantly, how can I do it better next time? The board wasn't damaged too badly, but I'm not going to finish it until I figure out the problem.










Thanks for any help you can give!


----------



## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

It is really hard to tell from your picture. Perhaps, you could post one which is not such a close up including your push stick.

A few more details are also needed…..size of the piece of wood and size of the pieces you were cutting off.


----------



## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

Blade not parallel to the mitre slot, fence slightly out of alignment, poor quality blade, stock not 4 square…

Or things just happen.

Push stick. What kind? I don't care for the ones that are long with a notch where you are pushing the timber like using a drumstick… I prefer the ones that go over the Tiber and are notched in the back, the basic push stick, while preferable over fingers leaves way to much moving around between that fence and blade, Irving knife aside.

I'd find a good resource on setting up a table saw and safe use. Other than that, be careful.


----------



## hoosier0311 (Nov 8, 2012)

Not claiming to be an expert here, but maybe there was a bit of a twist or bow in that particular board that allowed it to bind up?


----------



## retfr8flyr (Oct 30, 2013)

Can't tell from the pic but does the blade have a riving knife? Some of the problems could be fence not aligned properly, blade not aligned with the miter slot, the push from the rear, with the push stick, could have made the piece turn slightly away from the fence and into the blade, or you may have done nothing wrong and it was just stress in the wood that made it close up on the blade.


----------



## thewfool (Mar 10, 2014)

Here's a pulled back image to show the board and the push stick. 









Here's a smaller version of the first one, showing the technique I was using.









The board was 2×3x24, and I was ripping it down to 2 1/4. It doesn't have any obvious twists, knots, or cupping, it's very straight (somebody else milled it).


----------



## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

Dull blade, blade to low-not enough down bite, fence not parallel, didn't hold the board down strong enough towards the front, other factors could have contributed as well, such as the board relieving stress and bowing.


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

This sometimes happens to everyone, beginners and professionals. You experienced kickback, which has happened to almost everyone. Yes, there are obvious causes to look for, like some other LJ's have mentioned, but sometimes everything can be right and you still get kickback. That is why we use pushsticks, blade guards and riving knives. As well, sometimes when cutting thick stock it will slightly pinch the blade as you cut it and want to kick back. I frequently cut thick stock and occaisionally have this happen, despite using a well aligned TS and a sharp blade.


----------



## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I think it was the figures on that wood that caused it. Once it gets hot, then things tend to bend out of shape. You didn't do anything wrong, just expect that when you run across that kind of discrepancies in wood grain and allow an additional 1/8" to straighten things out later. Make the cut as quick as you can to prevent heat causing problems in your cut.


----------



## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

Were you holding the board DOWN with your left hand while you were pushing with your right hand? Taking care to let the board slide through your down pressure exerted by your left hand, and NOT letting your left hand be carried forward toward the blade?


----------



## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm thinking a combination of blade height and not having enough down pressure. Sometimes with the blad set low as for a rip of a thin piece if you just hold the back down with the push stick the front can rise up. Think of the direction the blade is going. It's coming up and out of the saw so if a little extra pressure pushes sideways into the blade it will lift the wood up.


----------



## splinterking (Oct 27, 2012)

I agree with what has been said, but I would put my money on the push stick. I've noticed in the past that that particular style can cause the board to pivot up and wobble back down. Then the blade will kind of catch it at the apex of its rotation applying the force back at you instead of down towards the table and through the wood. Buy a push stick like the one in pic 1 or make one like in pic 2 or both and it will give it both downward pressure and a forward push.


----------



## mudflap4869 (May 28, 2014)

Just a random thought. Cleaning and waxing your fence and riving knife might help a bit. It doesn't take much to gum them up and cause them to drag on the wood. Attach a feather-board to the fence to hold the work down. The figuring in the board you show will cause it to pinch closed on the blade. when I have a problem with this I sometimes insert a shim in the cut end to maintain the kerf. I use a push stick like the black one pictured above. Great investment in your safety, and lots of useful features.


----------



## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

1+ splinterkings advise on that particular shape of push sticks. 
I started with a push stick just like yours (started with the same tablesaw too), and found that it pushes the board forward just fine but it also tends to lift the leading edge of the board. That can cause kickback as the blade lifts the board. There are several solutions like expensive saws with riving knives, featherboards, or just a sawhandle type pushstick. 
Good luck and glad you didn't get hurt.


----------



## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

I think Splinterking is on the right track. Pushing that much board with that pushstick without a featherboard seems risky - no lateral control. Personally, I'd throw that stick away and make something like Splinter's second picture. (I've never understood the logic of having a couple thousand dollars of woodworking equipment and buying a push stick)


----------



## Fettler (Dec 6, 2012)

If the work piece is lifting then it's probably binding on the blade. This could be the result of an out of square work piece or a misaligned fence.


----------



## Fettler (Dec 6, 2012)

Or lack of downward pressure as mentioned above. I prefer using two pushsticks vs. the push block. I've seen youtube videos where the saw chews right through those and takes a piece of the hand. When i push.. i keep some sideways pressure to keep the work piece into the fence in addition to flat on the table.


----------



## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

Possibly it was not you, but rather the wood. I had an interesting experience a while back that I wrote about here on LJs. On the other hand …

Personally, I do not use the push stick until the back of the piece of wood being cut is on the table - so I would not have been using the push stick in that piece of wood yet. I find that with wood that hangs off the back of the table, I have the tendency to push downwards at the back, which levers up the front. It could have been that.

If you do want to make things safer, using a featherboard is a good idea. Some other LJs have advocated the use of something called "Board Buddies to hold the wood down.

As far as push sticks go, there are a variety of types and shapes. I have a number of different styles of push sticks, including similar to yours, and use whichever one is most appropriate for the cut that I am doing. There are also things like the Grrripper, but you only ever see that used without a blade guard in place, and it is your choice whether to remove the gaurd to work.


----------



## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

Again, did you have the riving knife installed?


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

You should use a push stick that helps hold the board down as well as push. You should check and make sure that your fence and blade are set up correctly and that there are no defects in the piece of wood that might help a board to be prone to kickback. A riving knife will also help. Hold down feather boards can also be used at times.
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

helluvawreck aka Charles


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Other folks have talked about riving knives and splitters but have not mentioned why it's go to have them. Some wood has inter tension causing it to bow out or in when it's ripped on a table saw,if it bows in,it clamps on the saw blade it will cause serious kick back,this is what riving knives and splitters help to avoid,because they are right behind the blade the wood try's to clamps on them instead of the blade.

On some table saws with weaker fences they fence will flex also causing kick back.


----------



## MikeThrockmorton (Nov 4, 2013)

"honey, for my personal safety, I need to make a push stick. To make a safely shaped push stick in a safe manner, I need a good band saw.".

So anyway, when ripping strips off a wider board, you can hit a fun thing where you encounter captured stress in the board that causes it to curl as it comes off the blade. The curl can be away from the blade or towards. The latter is bad. The board can just pinch on you splitter or riving blade, or on the blade itself potentially causing kickback.

Also, it your saw becomes overburdened, the blade can slow, grab the wood and hurl it


----------



## thewfool (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks everyone! I do have the riving knife installed, the board hadn't gotten entirely through the blade yet, so it wasn't in play. From what I gather, I wasn't doing anything wrong with the placement of the boards, blade, or fence. Sounds like I need to do some checks for square. I'm guessing that the board pulled up from the table, since I was holding the bulk of it. I'll be getting or making a different style push stick and looking into a featherboard for my saw.


----------



## Gshepherd (May 16, 2012)

Until you get a feather board you could use a clamp towards the end of your fence that would prevent the board from flying straight towards you providing it does not interfer with your movement. How fast were you pushing the stock through? I was ripping some 8/4 HM and I was going to slow and the blade heated up so bad it actually made a small S cut. I never would have believed it if I had not seen it for myself. Check out your throat plate and make sure it is level with your table.


----------



## 2Dusty2 (Oct 3, 2014)

I agree with muleskinner and all the others who have focused on your push stick. Throw yours away and cut one out of plywood with your jig saw like those shown in a previous post by splinterking. The other points about dull blade, blade and fence not square and even waxing the fence are good points but the type of push stick your using is dangerous.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

A set up like Jason's wouldn't be a bad I idea either .

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/39645


----------



## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

As mentioned make sure everything is dialed in on that saw. I think everyone covered what you need to do and could have just been the wood pinching.

I had that saw prior and used it for many years but needs a lot of proper set up to cut good and safely and even then can be a bear. One issue I had was the rear of that fence. The fence bowed out at the back rear bottom corner and as you can imagine pushed longer pieces of wood back towards the fence. I ended up using a little finesse (hammer) and gently dented that portion in. Was much more noticeable on thicker hard woods than thinner stock when sawing.

1. blade to fence parallelism
2. check fence bow in rear
3. thin kerf blade
3. push stick
4. wax table/fence

The thin kerf blade on that saw really pays big dividends as you will find yourself really "pushing" the cut using regular kerf blades. How often are you putting your foot on that front bottom rail of the stand?


----------



## ElChe (Sep 28, 2014)

If you were using the same edge of board against fence on the prior rip cuts and you didn't experience kickback then fence is probably not issue? Maybe the grain coupled with how darned hard maple is. I agree that pushstick isn't optimal and make sure your blade is reasonably sharp. A dedicated rip blade is what I would recommend but a decent combo blade that is sharp would also be ok. Good luck. Kickback can be scary bit it happens. I once launched a 2×4 that dented a solid garage door.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

If anyone else mentioned this I appologize for not seeing it, I tried to read every post.

BUT, look at the grain on that board. That looks to me like a piece of wood with a lot of internal stress.
With, or without a riving knife that board might be twisting or warping , pushing against the fence, or just binding in general.

I will agree with the need for a push device that allows you to hold the board down and I often use two; one holding down and another keeping pressure against the fence. Feather boards are good too.


----------



## Westernspirit (Oct 19, 2014)

First thing I noticed was the blade seems to be set too high (too much blade exposed through the wood). Generally speaking you should never have more than the tip (one carbide tooth) coming through above the wood. This may not be the reason for the problem but it is a good thing to pay attention to. Also the blade might not be the best for ripping in this manner. A glue joint rip or a Fushion blade may be better. That said the more likely issue could be a small sliver of wood along the fence causing a bind or lift of the material. It is always best to be sure the fence is true to the miter slot (blade having been aligned to this slot), blade of correct style and set to correct height, no chips or slivers on saw top, blade guard and anti kickback in good condition and in place, and keep out of blades path. Then be careful. Possibly you did nothing wrong. Just some things to consider. Be safe.


----------



## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

> First thing I noticed was the blade seems to be set too high (too much blade exposed through the wood). Generally speaking you should never have more than the tip (one carbide tooth) coming through above the wood.
> 
> - Westernspirit


I disagree. 
Blade height needs to be adjusted to correspond with the cut being made. 
Certain materials, and blade conditions, require different height settings. 
I am always adjusting my blade up or down depending on what I'm cutting.

You can use "Generally Speaking" if you want, I don't.

Personally, I believe if you have *control of your material* you should never get a kickback, 
Your wood may push up and vibrate, or burn against the side of the blade, but if your holding the material it shouldn't fly back at you, at best hold the material down and shut off the saw, remove pc. 
It's when you run into a problem and let go of the wood that the wood has the ability to shoot out of the saw. 
This of course is Just My Opinion, and I understand, it differs with many others Opinion.


----------



## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

> First thing I noticed was the blade seems to be set too high (too much blade exposed through the wood). Generally speaking you should never have more than the tip (one carbide tooth) coming through above the wood.
> 
> - Westernspirit


Like Iwud4u, I don't entirely agree. A low blade means that the teeth doing the cutting are moving both backwards and downwards - the backwards movement could provide force and energy to the wood for a kickback. By comparison, with a raised blade the teeth doing the cutting are moving mainly downwards with very little movement backwards, which pushes the wood into the table surface but does not provide much backwards force or energy for a kickback.

However, some woods splinter and chip more when the blade is high, so in those cases lower is certainly better. Also, if you are working without a guard, it might be safer to have the blade lower so that there is less blade exposed to be touched. Blade hieght becomes a compromise based on the job in hand.


----------



## rossboyle52 (Dec 31, 2012)

A blade stabilizer works well when ripping a species of wood that requires the blade to be set higher.


----------

