# Making a tap and die - will this work?



## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

I recently saw some wooden "nuts and bolts" for kids to play with. I want my kids to have some! 
I'd want 1/2" diameter for toys, but while i'm at, I want 1" or 1.25" diameter for my own stuff. But buying that many threading kits would be expensive.

My plan is to buy a steel bolt and nut of the desired diameter, and work them with a file and sandpaper to make them into a tap and die.

*Do you think this is a waste of time?*

*THE DIE*: I would sand the ID of the nut on the first couple threads, creating a tapered entrance. Then, using a triangular file, I would cut 2 or 3 grooves in the ID of said nut, making each thread into a cutterhead. 
Then just hold the nut in a vise and try to turn the (appropriate size) dowel into it.

*THE TAP*: Starting Tap: I would sand down the OD of the screw's end over the first few threads. Then use the dremel to cut 2 or 3 grooves up the length of the bolt. 
Finishing Tap: Same thing, without creating the taper.

Chamfering the workpieces, lubricating them with BLO seem to be common recommendations for any wood threading operation. With these precautions, does this seem like it's worth the time to try?


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Seems to me that it would work. On one of "The Woodwright's Shop" episodes, Roy made a custom tap and die that seemed to be pretty easy to do and can be done with different diameters. Worth looking into. Not sure what episode it was, but it was from the earlier days.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

The major problem with using an existing nut and bolt is that the common grades of hardware have pretty loose thread fit tolerances. Pre-made machined taps and dies are extremely precise and cut threads that work every time. Your tap/die made from a coarse thread bolt and nut will only cut coarse, poorly-fitting threads.


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

Also you will not have the necessary clearance for the chips so you will need to back the tap or die out more often.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

You have nothing to lose but time. Of course time can be precious. We only get so much time. Your call.


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

William, I hadn't thought of that - a bolt and nut that thread together easily will, when used as tap and die, form a corresponding nut and bolt that do NOT thread together easily. There's a possibility that will work in my favor, but particularly for the kids' toy version, it probably won't. 
But AlaskaGuy is right, it's just a little time - so I'll try it on the 1/2", and see if it holds promise.

If it works it would be a great way to teach kids about threading!


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Using a bolt as a tap works well. Using the nut will, as Jon says, not work. But the good news is that the outside thread cutter is quite easy to make yourself. Setting up a router jig is also doable


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/81764

I saw this here a while ago…doesn't look too hard to put together and could do what you want I think

Brian


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

John, you can make tap and die sets to use on wood. Make sure you use course threads the size of the dowels you want to use, 1/2", 3/4" 1'. Use hardwood for the nuts and bolts but not course grain. Maple or Walnut work very well.

Screw your grade 2 or 5 bolt and nut together so they are flush on the back side. Grade 8 is too hard and may break your drill bit. Put them in a vice on a drill press with the back side up. Drill 3 holes spaced around the threads of the nut and bolt. Use a drill bit just over the size of the joined threads.

Take the nut and bolt apart and using a file, straighten the cutting edge of both pieces. This will leave you with your tap and die with clearance holes for the chips. See attached picture.









I have done this many times for threading wood, brass and even mild steel. Good luck. Dan


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

It will work but big tap and dies can be found reasonably cheap on ebay, NOS, bulk sold as singles, or even slightly used.


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

> It will work but big tap and dies can be found reasonably cheap on ebay, NOS, bulk sold as singles, or even slightly used.
> 
> - Rick M


Yep, and I imagine that even a heavily used and worn tap or die should still be plenty sharp enough to handle threads in wood, even if it's life of cutting metal is over.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

There is also this:
http://wwthreadtaps.com/


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

Wooden threads have usually much higher thread pitch than the metal counterparts so your idea as well as idea to use threading tools for metal may not be ideal.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Papadan, that's a new trick on me. Thanks for posting.
Bill


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## cathode (May 18, 2014)

> Wooden threads have usually much higher thread pitch than the metal counterparts so your idea as well as idea to use threading tools for metal may not be ideal.
> 
> - Carloz


Depends on the species of wood and the grain direction. Also I think that most people who are tapping threads into wood are doing so to attach metal fasteners, so the threads will need to match metal thread profiles.

It's also reccomended to stabilize the wood grain fibers in the tapped hole by soaking with thinned epoxy and then chasing the threads with the tap again to clean up the epoxy.


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## Gilley23 (May 9, 2017)

While all of that will work, it is IMO too much trouble for what you're trying to accomplish. Just find the cheapest, crappiest, Chineseiest (it's a word, look it up), highest pitch tap and die set that you can. This is wood that we're dealing with here!

Good luck and I hope that the kids enjoy it!


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