# I give up on box/finger joints



## Starfury (Jul 1, 2015)

After trying for the 4th time to get finger joints to work I give up. By the time I'd reached the end of the 8" board they were off an 1/8th of an inch. I've followed many people on YouTube and I think that all their prefect joints are special effects…or the fact that they all seem to have cabinet maker grade saws and not a cheap Home Depot Ryobi saw.

I"m just not sure what I'm doing wrong. I set the blade to do 3/8" wide cut since I'm using 1/4" poplar boards. I put in my key and measured; the test cut seemed fine. I took some scrap and the joints were tight but worked. When I did my project pieces they're all messed up. I'm not going to run out to buy a jig since that''s not in the budget for the few projects I'm going to do. Would using a router table be a better way instead of the table saw? At this point I'm just lost and very frustrated.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

It sounds to me like your key is too loose. The cut should fit on easily but with a bit of friction.
If it is too loose every cut you make after the first one will have a compounded error so the farther you go the farther off it will be.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I make them on a router table with a jig I made and a spiral router bit.

There is no doubt that it is not easy to get perfect ones and takes a good setup and practice joints.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

William Ng has a you tube video and you'll make it em perfect.


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## drewpy (Sep 7, 2014)

I make them on a router table with a jig I made - found the idea for my jig on you tube. I just feel more comfortable and confident on a smaller table.

I agree with Dallas, sounds like your key is loose.


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## Starfury (Jul 1, 2015)

I've seen William's video and he's like the rest…professional grade tools and years of experience. I've looked into making a router table but figure my time and money would be better used either picking one up on Craigslist or the $70 one that Searsh has. It'll let me (try) to get box joints right and will also give me a nice fens to do other joints.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Starfury, I made a lot of perfect fitting box joints with a cheapo Ryobi tablesaw, Harbor Freight dado set, and a shop made jig. Assuming you attach your jig to the miter gauge, I have several suggestions:
Your key has to be EXACTLY the width of your dado kerf.
The key has to be EXACTLY 1 saw kerf width from the blade.
There can be NO wobble in your miter gauge.
Blade MUST be 90 degrees to the table surface.

I have done box joints on the router table but they are MUCH faster and more repeatable on the tablesaw (the spinning router bit tends to move the stock) and you get more tear out.


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## newwoodbutcher (Aug 6, 2010)

Buy an I Box from Incra and a quality stacked dado set and you will cut perfect finger joints on your table saw every time, for ever. I've made my own finger joint jig before. After repetitive use it wouldn't make tight joints. Tried tuning it up a few times but finally gave up and bought the I Box. No brainer, this tool will perform for the rest of my life.,


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I just finished three drawers with box joints tonight … I have a Freud box-joint blade set, and a Woodsmith aluminum jig.

Before I got the tools I am using now, I made dozens of drawers and boxes with a cheap set of dado blades from Harbor Freight, and a jig I made out of scraps.

gfadvm is spot on … if the key isn't exactly the same width as your kerf, you are wasting your time.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/181682

Cool crosscut sled ^


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I built box joint jig using the Woodsmith jig kit. It's got all the hardware and it's fairly simple to build. It works really well.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Excuse my chuckle but your quitting after 4 trys? .As a person with dyslexic tendencies I may have to try new techniques 50 times or more before I get them to work. As gfadVm said all aspects of the operation has to be dead on accurate, the key.the space from the key and the width of the daddo blade.
Hang in there I know can do it,this apply's to many aspects of woodworking.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> William Ng has a you tube video and you ll make it em perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it works.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Start at the source and work up from there. First make sure the saw is setup perfectly (slots aligned, run-out, etc.) then check on the accuracy of the miter gauge or sled (whichever you use), then confirm the key is perfectly positioned and sized. Last step is to make sure the stock used is perfectly milled.

Many persistent problems are hard to identify because they aren't caused by any one major error but rather, an accumulation of many small, issues.

Take things slow and work methodically and build a solid foundation before advancing. That saves hours of frustration in the long run.

My first box joints were done on a portable Makita using a standard saw blade that made narrow fingers. Once everything was dialed in, the joints came out perfect. Positioning that key took a while. As everyone else has said. It has to be perfect. An error of .004" will grow into an error of .128" if doing 1/4" fingers across 8" of width.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/854034/INCRA-IBox-Jig-for-Box-Joints.aspx?gclid=COji7cS488cCFUhhfgod_WwFrg


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

build yourself a crosscut sled,a well made one,not a fancy just well made it will serve you well for years,then go back to the tube or fine woodworking,and fine one of the simple jigs,you may only use the jig one but to get it right it will feel like it's worth it.
The cheap contractor saw and the 3k SS do the same thing,spin a blade.the cheap saw you just have to tweak them sometimes.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

As A1Jim reported giving up after 4 trys?.... box joints or finger joints as they are also known require at least 10 trys !!
its how you go about it

Here is a suitcase I made with a hand made jig and standard table saw blade, so its not the fancy tools that cut it

And a walnut box for my wife


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## rcp612 (Oct 15, 2009)

> Buy an I Box from Incra and a quality stacked dado set and you will cut perfect finger joints on your table saw every time, for ever. I ve made my own finger joint jig before. After repetitive use it wouldn t make tight joints. Tried tuning it up a few times but finally gave up and bought the I Box. No brainer, this tool will perform for the rest of my life.,
> 
> - newwoodbutcher


Plus 1 from me. That is the most useful manufactured jig that I know of.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

I have had good performance with the Wordsmith box joint jig.


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## Ghidrah (Jan 20, 2015)

At the risk of beating the dead horse, I agree with all the guys above.
The miter gauge and fence must be square to the blade. 
Key "same" as blades width, not close, and rigid in place. 
Offset exactly "same" as blades width. 
Orient the pieces, (top/bottom), all pieces "same" height and width, all opposing pieces same length. Even a different MC in pieces can mess with a fit.
Any one deviation from the above will mess with the fit, more than one and the error may be compounded.


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## Starfury (Jul 1, 2015)

I'll have to take a look at the saw and make sure the blade/miter gauge is square.

I'm also MUCH better at computers than woodworking. One of the helpful suggestions was to purchase the Incra Jig (too much $$ for casual use) and some others were to use the Woodsmith Jig Kit. I looked online and see that the plans are for sale and also a kit with parts other than some lumber. Because I'm better at computers I found a digital copy of Shop Notes #8 from 1993 online that has all the info I need. Just have to make a run to the hardware store to get the bits then I can build the jig and see if that works better than my attempts so far.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Starfury, I built that Shopnotes jig (bought the kit). It was one of my most frustrating experiences and I never got it to work consistently. Your milage may vary.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I bought the Shopnotes kit also. I looked through the plans and thought they were interesting. I ended up building it without the ability to adjust the finger width. I made several different pieces with different sized keys in each. The keys are made to exactly fit the width of the router bits I use.

The ability to adjust the spacing between the key and router bit works well.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I have noted in the past that box (finger) joints were the most difficult to make. As was mentioned by another LJ, any deviation in width will accumulate to an interference at the end of an 8" board. I am also a machinist, so I know the importance of accuracy of dimensions. Woodworkers are not required to work to thousands of an inch, but with joints like box joints, that accuracy is mandatory. For one thing, if you are using a soft wood like pine or redwood, it is most difficult to cut and hold to a high degree of accuracy. Hard woods are stable enough to hold an accurate dimension that can be measured with a micrometer or caliper. These two tools are expensive, but there are many import tools that will make precise measurements at a low cost. HF has some of these for around 10 bucks each and they are plenty accurate enough for woodworking.
I made my own box joint jig and because of my metal working skill, I made critical parts from metal. A 1/4" spacing pin is exactly 0.250", not .251 or .249 and the distance between the blade and the pin is exactly 0.250". I would recommend using a box joint blade set like the Bosch. This set cuts 1/4" and 3/8" fingers and is precise. If you use a stacked or "wobble" dado set, you will have to spend much time and effort getting it set exactly to cut 1/4" or 3/8" fingers.
Router bits are precise in their cut width, so using a router with a jig is another option. I don't personally like this method because there is a tendency for "tear-out" as the bit exits the wood. All other comments regarding blade to fence and miter slot alignment and arbor run-out apply. It took me a lot more than 4 tries to get my box joint dialed in. Just keep at it and it will work.


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## Starfury (Jul 1, 2015)

I did actually try more than 4x to make box joints..they just never line up. I do have a digital caliper and it seems like the cut on the HF dado isn't exact but I'm custom cutting the peg to put in the jig. I've also put some masking tape on the guide for the miter since it's very loose w/o the tape (precision Ryobi manufacturing.) I've watched the videos and tried the adjustments…the last try was on 1/4" poplar and for some reason stuff just shifts on the saw and won't stay straight.

I did find a person on CL selling a porter cable dovetail set for $40 with guides and I'm going to check it out after work. I don't mind using a router instead of table saw to cut joints since I'm not going to be making stuff all the time; I just want to make a few things (small treasure chest and a dice tower) that will look nice when in use.


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## rhybeka (Nov 8, 2009)

unless you're married to the power tool way of cutting them - why not cut them by hand?


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## Kvegas (Jun 19, 2015)

> William Ng has a you tube video and you ll make it em perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It certainly does. I have used his setup In his shop, with his guidance and my box joints turned out perfect the first try. The key, as already stated is accuracy. If you watch his video, he uses micrometers to setup everything to within a thousandth. The extra effort pays off in the end though. He also shows how to make a cross cut sled included in the five cut method video


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I have the Rockler jig for making box joints, and it works well. All that is necessary there is getting the first cut made right, and having backer boards for each case of the sides, to avoid blowout. I still got some, due to the M Mouse setup I have to use in my "shop". But I glued in some slivers of wood, and filled the gaps well enough. It's just a glasses case, anyway. It worked way better on my carving tool chest, which used 1/2" box joints instead of 1/4", and was in BB ply instead of QSWO.

Don't give up. It takes a lot of time to get the practice to make good joints. I generally prefer miter joints to get a box to look nice, but they have their own quirks- getting the cuts at 45° and 90° takes a lot of setup, as well.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I'd vote for making your own sled first just for this jig. I made one that's only 6" deep just for 3/8" box joints.

If you are trying to use the ryobi miter guide as a guide, you are performing an exercise in futility. Look at how William Ng makes his sled, then his finger joint video.

You can do it bud.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> I d vote for making your own sled first just for this jig. I made one that s only 6" deep just for 3/8" box joints.
> 
> If you are trying to use the ryobi miter guide as a guide, you are performing an exercise in futility. Look at how William Ng makes his sled, then his finger joint video.
> 
> ...


Also, what The Fridge says. Maybe just go to the intertubes and study, study, study. I got through the university that way. It was seldom easy, like any other worthwhile endeavor.


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## jar944 (Jun 19, 2014)

> I ve also put some masking tape on the guide for the miter since it s very loose w/o the tape (precision Ryobi manufacturing.)


Dont use the miter gauge for the basis of the box joint jig.

Actually don't use it for any precision cuts


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## Ghidrah (Jan 20, 2015)

This is my 3fer FJ jig, I can do 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8" FJs. It took me some time to get it right, when I did I made this guy so I wouldn't have to putz around. I don't use FJs often enough, I do like the contrast a lot. Look to the top right and you can see the Oak key insert for the 5/16 FJ. I'm thinking the 3/8 key fell out and hope its still on the RT shelf.


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## Starfury (Jul 1, 2015)

I ended up on Craigslist and picked up a dovetail jig for $40. Having researched before buying I know that I'll be able to do dovetail and box joints on it; I also bought the router the lady was selling for $50 since it's a 1/2" plunge router and had the dovetail bit in it. Now I have 2 routers…I'm on my way to starting a collection.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Any 'incremental' jig (like Ghidrah's above) requires consistency and accuracy since any errors will accumulate, but they are the simplest and easiest to use.

Alternatively (aside form a manufactured jig), you can make a set of spacer blocks in the proper increments for each joint 'finger'. These are placed against a locked down fence and the project piece is referenced against this spacer before being pushed through the blade. The advantage is the last spacer is what determines where the last finger will align. This can be made to get exactly spot on with your 8" width.

It takes practice, but personally a simple jig like Ghidrah's is what works best (for me!)


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> I ended up on Craigslist and picked up a dovetail jig for $40. Having researched before buying I know that I ll be able to do dovetail and box joints on it; I also bought the router the lady was selling for $50 since it s a 1/2" plunge router and had the dovetail bit in it. Now I have 2 routers…I m on my way to starting a collection.
> 
> - Starfury


Good for you! Hopefully these routers will work out for you. I only have 2, myself. A1Jim admits to about 40. You are on your way. Hopefully you will get these joints straightened out.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I have a couple box joint jigs I use occasionally. They are nice for little boxes, but for chests and cases wider than 12" I find dovetail jigs much more reliable. Nothing is more frustrating than going to assemble an 18" wide box jointed walnut box and realizing it won't go together. I once had to rip and re-glue a panel to correct inaccuracies in box joints.

I have never had those type of problems with dovetails.

Good luck.


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## Starfury (Jul 1, 2015)

I'm going to rip down the boards that don't work; turns out 2 sides fit nice, and 2 are bad. I may try to re-do them on the table saw and if that fails…well I do have the new toys to play with. Dovetails do look easier once you get things set up on the jig. I'd use some pine…but it's an old 1×12 and I don't want to waste it. Have to see what I do have to use.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

My experience is similar to yours it was a bear to get it dialed in.
I ended up getting the Incra jig because my thinking is you will eventually need at least 2 or 3 of diff widths and you'll have to build a jig for every one.

My suggestions:

Don't try to cut the key perfect right off the saw.
Oversize it, leave it long then plane or sand down to width that works.
Before you start, double check all your saw and sled settings for square and parallel.

When I get frustrated, I take a break, rethink the process, and take another stab at it when I'm fresh the next day. 
Lots of times it all just comes together like a Youtube video ha ha.


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