# Are special 'pocket hole' screws really necessary for pocket holes?



## danielhoer

I know many may scoff at the use of pocket holes for joinery but I'm eager to build some really basic stuff and I don't quite have a ton of tools yet so… pocket holes for now. I'm going to build a little changing table for a baby out of 2×4s.. but I still want to ask these questions b/c I'd hate to ruin the project and have to re-buy materials and start again.

My question is about the screws - are special pocket hole screws really necessary? A description of the Kreg pocket hole screws says you must use their special screws because "the wide bearing surface of the screw head will not overdrive in the bottom of the pocket. This is especially important in softer material such as plywoods and composites. The screw also features a type 17 auger tip that self-taps its own hole, eliminating the need to predrill in even the hardest materials."

1. What happens if you overdrive in the bottom of the pocket - that means you screw the screw too far and it sticks through the other end right? Can't I just pay attention to how far/hard I'm screwing it and make sure I don't 'go to far' ?

2. Is self-taping important? What happens if I don't use pocket hole screws - what project defects/complications am I risking?

3. Does anyone have suggestions for a certain screw type I can get at Home Depot / Lowes etc. that is the 'next best' alternative to expensive pocket hole screws?

Thank you for any insight!


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## TheFridge

If you use a bugle headed screw (drywall) instead of a screw with a truss head you'll probably split the wood.

Only 20$ For 500. It'll would be a long time before you use them up.


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## papadan

The drilled hole is too big for normal screw heads, they will not hold. You can measure and put a flat washer on each screw before installing, but it is easier to just use pocket hole screws. That said, if your building with construction lumber, use glue and normal screws because just pocket hole joinery wont hold up in soft wood. Counter sink and plug your screw holes if you don't want them to show.


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## Loren

1. it splits the wood or drives through the 
target part.

2. In hardwoods, yes. In softwoods, not really.

3. no.


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## patcollins

The steel for the Kreg screws is harder than the run of the mill screws also.

The important parts are the stronger nature of the screw, the self taping end to keep wood from cracking, and the large head to spread out the load in the wood. Really they are worth the minimal extra cost.

The screw only having a portion of the shank threaded makes for a better joint since the threads will only benefit you that are in the second piece of wood and not the piece you drilled so the joints are more likely to close up they way they are supposed to.


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## woodbutcherbynight

> If you use a bugle headed screw (drywall) instead of a screw with a truss head you ll probably split the wood.
> 
> Only 20$ For 500. It ll would be a long time before you use them up.
> 
> - TheFridge


I agree and my neighbor proved it. He tried to cheat and the screw split every single joint he tried before he called me and asked me to see what was wrong. Once he saw how the correct screw worked he went and bought some.


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## firefighterontheside

Washer head screws, but you have to,find them with a head small enough to still fit in the pocket hole.
Buy kreg screws on Amazon.


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## JAAune

Get the off-brand screws from Custom Service Hardware and they aren't that expensive if purchased in quantities of at least 1,000.


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## OldCoach

I have used regular screws I bought at H-D. I do not drill the pocket as deep. That way if I screw the regular screw a tad to far it doesn't go all the way through the pocket. I dismantled a 700 square foot deck and have lots of wood and screws to build outdoor things with. The deck screws work fine. Just be careful when screwing them in.


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## pintodeluxe

4 cents per screw is a pretty good deal, considering you can buy as little as 100 count per box.


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## danielhoer

THANKS for the input. I was surprised that almost everyone recommends them. I got some just now.. Cheers!


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## canadianchips

Check at Home Depot. Washer head cabinet screws. Generally used for melamine cabinets.Put it side by side with Kreg pocket screw and you cannot tell the difference. Same thread design


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## fuigb

@OP - dont apologize for your method. Do what you can manage and can afford.

For functional deck furniture made of 1x pine or cedar I have used Kreg's jig with drywall screws. No problems at all.


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## mat60

I have got away with drywall screws also on plywood to hold something together untill the glue dries.


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## Carloz

> Only 20$ For 500. It ll would be a long time before you use them up.
> - TheFridge


An average facefreame requires about 26 screws. They go pretty fast.


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## Carloz

> Check at Home Depot. Washer head cabinet screws. Generally used for melamine cabinets.Put it side by side with Kreg pocket screw and you cannot tell the difference. Same thread design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - canadianchips


Home depot screws are more expensive than Kreg's. What's the point ?


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## canadianchips

MY point is ther is ANOTHER screw that is similar !
In MY country they are cheaper. He asked if there were alternative screws. We also have a HOME "HARDWARE in Canada that also sells them. I used kreg and cabinet screws from Home Depot as a Comparison.


> ?


?


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## MT_Stringer

> I know many may scoff at the use of pocket holes for joinery but I m eager to build some really basic stuff and I don t quite have a ton of tools yet so… pocket holes for now. I m going to build a little changing table for a baby out of 2×4s.. but I still want to ask these questions b/c I d hate to ruin the project and have to re-buy materials and start again.
> 
> My question is about the screws - are special pocket hole screws really necessary? A description of the Kreg pocket hole screws says you must use their special screws because "the wide bearing surface of the screw head will not overdrive in the bottom of the pocket. This is especially important in softer material such as plywoods and composites. The screw also features a type 17 auger tip that self-taps its own hole, eliminating the need to predrill in even the hardest materials."
> 
> 1. What happens if you overdrive in the bottom of the pocket - that means you screw the screw too far and it sticks through the other end right? Can t I just pay attention to how far/hard I m screwing it and make sure I don t go to far ?
> 
> 2. Is self-taping important? What happens if I don t use pocket hole screws - what project defects/complications am I risking?
> 
> 3. Does anyone have suggestions for a certain screw type I can get at Home Depot / Lowes etc. that is the next best alternative to expensive pocket hole screws?
> 
> Thank you for any insight!
> 
> - danielhoer


Go ahead and try it on some scrap. You will probably answer your own questions.

You gotta pay if you're gonna play. 

Just a note: I have gone through several thousand kreg screws. I don't have the time or patience to screw up a project and have to remake a piece or two because I saved a little money on screws.


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## rustfever

I have seriously researched screw prices, trying to get a more economical screw. 'More Bang for the Buck'.
Came up without finding any price advantage, unless I was willing to by multiple cases [lugs, about 35# each]
Nope, Kreg pocket screws is the standard.


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## CharlesA

In the cases where I have used pocket holes, I've used them for ease and speed. Having standard screws helps since I don't want to fine tune thing s beyond the standard setting so. OTIH, I bought them in bulk when I was learning woodworking, and now that I usually use other joinery, I have a lifetime supply.


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## JAAune

Pocket holes jigs are great tools. They're helpful in some basic construction methods and once a woodworker has progressed beyond that, they're still unbeatable for quick assembly of jigs and fixtures.


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## MT_Stringer

I am 500 miles from home visiting the kids a their recently purchased home.

I just finished building my step daughter a birthday present. It will be up to her to apply the finish of her choice.

This was a simple project. It is a bench for the guest bathroom, or wherever she decides to use it. That is why I didn't try to stain it.

Pretty simple construction really. I made two face frames that attach to two ends. A shelf and a top. The face frames were assembled using Kreg pocket screws (Kreg K3 Jig). The frame pieces were attached with glue and brad nails. The top is attached to the frame with pocket screws also. It turned out pretty nice.


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## danielhoer

Awesome everyone, thanks so much for all the replies! Screws just arrived in the mail today and I'm eager to put them to use this week!


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## ihadmail

My local lowes and Home Depot both carry the Kreg brand screws in most sizes.

I have to either go to my specialty woodworking store or amazon to get the micro and HD Kreg screws though.


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## PatrickIrish

Home Depot was out of the 1 1/4 Kreg screws. They are $4 for 100. I checked all the screws and opted for a container of Spax 1 1/4 rear panel screws. Almost identical in size. Only problem is they are phillips so the I had to use an extension.

I came across some "truss" head square drive screws on ebay. Look identical to Kreg.


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