# Cheap returnable table saw



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I was on a job this week where the carpenters doing the framing told me they were going to return their $150 Ryobi table saw when they were done with it. Is this a common practice these days? Is is fair to the retailer? Seems like free rent to me


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## Dandog (Oct 21, 2010)

all i can say is that's weak or sad one of the two.


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## brianhavens (Nov 23, 2009)

The sad part is that consumers end up paying one way or another in the end, in the form of higher prices.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I don't know where they go it. By the time the job is done, it will be 6 month old I think. I hope the retailer does not take it, but most policies are too liberal. IMO Seems nobody has a conscience any more ;-((


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## HomerJayS (Jan 23, 2011)

Ran the big orange box for many years and you see it everyday. Ever wonder why they always have tons of "open box" items? Well there you go. Shady contractors and consumers are to blame for the high prices and lack of adequate inventory of the power tools we look for. By the way, great site! Been snooping around for some time looking at all the great projects you have all created. I dabble in this craft but have lots to learn.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Welcome to LJ Frank!!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Such a circumstance may indicate weird priorities in tradesman
or may be mere pragmatism as they realize the tools will not last
for much more than one job. Quality of portable saws may be very
poor these days by jobsite standards.

These guys' motives are suspect to be sure. When I was working 
in the trades I always had all the tools I would need and if I needed
additional I would buy absorb the costs, but I was running my own show
and probably made a lot more money than these guys who are
returning plastic table saws.

I have a Skil portable I've had for more than 10 years. I don't use it
much because it's strictly a jobsite saw, but it has held up fine. Perhaps
the current standard is a lot lower. I assume all these plastic saws are 
made in the same handful of factories.

Knowing what I know today I try to buy American or buy used (excepting
Festool, the unduplicable Teutonic "woodworker's crack" ). That preference
is equal parts frugality, quality control, and economic patriotism. Most of the
new tools I've seen seem well-made, though benchtop saws are roughly
on the level with sho vacs in terms of disposability. The stuff I buy just
doesn't seem wear-out much (cordless junk excepted). I must be either
smart or lucky.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I always bought good tools too, although not many were woodworking. There are tools out there good enough to last more than 1 job. The way the guy said it, they intended to retun it when they bought it. Yeah, times are tough, but we can't all be leaches, can we? )


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## gary351 (Sep 29, 2010)

I took a circular saw back once because it was defective, but i exchanged it for the same thing. I think if these guys could prove that there was a mfg. defect then they could get there money back, other wise they are just ripping off the company that made the product. Not much difference from the guy who uses lawn eqt. for a season then returns it for there money back.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

Eventually those "contractors" will run out of places to "borrow" tools. Fly by nighters, we called them.
When Rigid came up with "Lifetime warranty" that also opened the door to "use it, abuse it, take it back".


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

That's just wrong by anyone's standard, and I would put them on the spot about it. It ultimately hurts all of us.


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## Poncacity (Jan 22, 2011)

This is something of a detriment to the rest of us, who, when we need to return a *defective* tool.
If there was something wrong with the saw it should be returned immediately, not at the end of the job. These fellows will (I hope) soon loose there shoddy ways.
This reminds me of a dude I knew in Blackwell, OK. who took back a paddle fan that was several years old, and looked it, as he took the dirt and dust with this fan. And got a new one. So I can see where store policies of return, can and does create the idea of "gee I can return any thing any time". It hinges on the character of the individual.


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

Everyone wants companies to stand behind their tools and offer good warranties. It is people like this who ruin things for everyone. Something for nothing. And these contractors are probably the ones that bitch the loudest about poor service and the high cost of tools. Who do they think pays the cost for their deception? Everyone. How many of us, when buying a new tool want to get one off the shelf that has been used? I would be quite sure that people of this contractors' character aren't the type to take care of the tool they were using.

My recent Rigid purchases both carry a "lifetime warranty". They both have a "90 day no questions asked" guarantee. They are perfect game for unscrupulous people to take advantage of them. How are they supposed to stay in business? Where will they get the money to pay for good customer service and to make quality products if we all did what these idiots do?

I am not a wealthy woman, but I don't mind spending a bit more for something that is good quality and has a decent company behind it.

It all starts somewhere, folks. Sure, they are 'big companies'. How many big companies have fallen recently. I wonder why? We live in a very sad state of society it seems. 

Sheila

Oh - and a final thought - It doesn't matter how cheap it is - it is stealing. Where do we draw the line as to how much is OK to steal and how much isn't?


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I will add that this sort of thing is nothing new. I worked in the tool department at Sears in the 70's while I was in college, and this kind of crap went on every day. At the time, Sears had pretty much a no-questions-asked return policy, so we just had to eat it.

One of my jobs was to determine if returned portable power tools were worth being sent off for reconditioning. In many cases the cost of reconditioning exceeded what the tool could later be sold for, so I would have to haul them back to the loading dock and smash them to smithereens with a maul before throwing them in the dumpster. (If we didn't smash them, crooks would fish them out of the trash and return them to us again!)


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## wchips (Dec 11, 2009)

I think this goes on quite a bit Several years back a a fellow worker wanted to barrow my Dewalt planer , I knew he abuses the heck out of tools. So i told him i was going to use it at that time Well he goes to Manards and bought a new planer and ran into several nails, ruining the knives.,When he was done with it he returned it dab knives and all. He also bragged about how he gave Manards the shaft

so


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I agree that this is disgusting. Just as bad, I was once in HD looking for a special use plumbing tool. The HD employee who helped me find the tool actually suggested that I use it for the job and then return it, since I am not likely to ever need it again. I did not follow his advice.


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## woodnewbee (Nov 23, 2009)

Cabela's told me that many people buy hunting gear, use it for the hunt then return for refund hense the large assortment of returns in the bargain cave.


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## thiel (May 21, 2009)

ChuckV,

I've had the same thing happen at Home Depot… thought slightly more along the lines of "Buy it… if you use it and then decide you wont use it enough to keep it, bring it back." A little weird, for sure. (I've never taken them up on the offer.)

That said, there are some places where I buy things because I fully expect to return them. One examples is Williams Sonoma. Both sell crazy expensive stuff. Both have unconditional return policies. I've bought things that have lasted well beyond my expectations for them lasting… so I wear em out with joy and then pay for a replacement. But believe you me: if I spend $150 on a pan for my wife, and it does not wear well… well, I'm takin it back for a new one! (I have returned the same pan three times, actually… it has a design flaw which keeps its life short… but it also has a lifetime guarantee!) If you're gonna charge me double, then I'm gonna occasionally express myself in the form of a return-for-same-item.

Returned a whole suit to Brooks Brothers once… because it was looking shabby after only a couple years of wear. When they handed me a new one (no receipt, no paperwork, no questions) the guy behind the counter said… "You know, you're right… that suit just didn't look as good as it should for being so young."

I don't think I abuse those policies… and they do keep me coming back to the same stores/brands.


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## Maggiepic (Aug 26, 2010)

It sounds like the General Contractor needs to check out his subs he's hiring more thoroughly to see if they are equipped, and experienced, enough to handle the job they are hired for.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

He is direct direct to owner. Cheapest is best ;-)) Non UL listed equipment may change that policy however )


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

The tool sellers need to change their policy and start doing things differently…maybe charging a restocking fee.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

It's people like this guy that really pisses me off. It's stuff like this that screws it up for the rest of the Morally correct people in this country. They either don't care or are just stupid. Now you got me all riled up. I have a bit of an anger issue and I would have gone off on this guy. If you buy a product with the intention of using it than returning it when your done abusing it, that has to be theft. This guy needs a good flogging. Rant is over.


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## Robinson (Jan 11, 2011)

It has been pretty rare that I have returned a tool but then again I don't normally buy a lot of stuff new except small power tools.
Shame on them for planning it ahead…
Women do the same thing you know. I have known a lot of women (including a sister-in-law) who buy an outfit for an event and return it the next day… My wife never has. Young guys usually rent their prom tux but girls buy a dress and a lot of them stand in line to return it the next day.
Then there was the lady that tried to return a 9 year old sink to a local hardware store.
On the other side of the coin we now mark anything we might return as defective to Wally World… My wife noticed when she was returning a defective electric can opener that she had missed a small spot of tomato sauce on it. That can opener complete with spot was placed right back on the shelf untouched… My wife told some friends who then said that they had seen the same thing. She told one of our daughters that used to work there and she said It was not the store but that employee that would put stuff back rather than do the paper work of sending it off. Later when I bought a fluorescent shop light that was wired with a dead short I insisted that I see the store manager. I told him our experience and that I was not about to allow that light to get back on the shelf un-repaired. It was too dangerous. We had a good talk and that employee was not fired but was removed from the service desk.
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I used to work with a guy who's father owned a small construction company. He said that his father would hire "professional carpenters" who said that they had their own tools and then would then show up on the first day and ask to borrow a hammer.
I guess it takes all kinds… Unfortunately we all pay for it…


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

I worked at Sears part-time while in seminary. I was told of a guy who would buy shoes, wear them out and return them. He claimed they didn't wear good and got a new pair. A lady in appliances/housewares showed me an aluminum teapot that someone had run dry and melted the bottom. You could see the rings of the coil in the bottom. I also worked at Lowe's and got returns like this all the time. Cut wire wasn't returnable but we took it back, even with mud on the wire when they found they didn't order enough.


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## oleCB (Jan 22, 2011)

What I'd like to know is, what if the contractor/home owner decided they didn't want to keep this guy's work and told him to take it back!


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Now there is a good idea CB. I can see it now I just wanted the water jet tub for the weekend come get it. And while you are at it take the outdoor kitchen too.


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## kresso (Feb 17, 2011)

I will say my local sears often has put my broken or non functional returns back on the shelf multiple times, even once while I was still in the store. I grew up thinking Sears was awesome, but that store has really gone down hill from what I remember. I suppose it is the world we live in.


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## Junkorgem (Feb 20, 2011)

Hello all! When I purchase tools I first decide whether it is something I intend to use frequently on a professional level or… Whether it is a whim item that I'd like to have for occasional use. If it is something I need I will spend the most I could reasonably afford for a lifetime of use and hopefully a warrantee to match. For occasional use I go to harbor freight and buy their top of the line junk. Sometimes it is decent enough but I don't expect it to take alot of use/abuse. As far as people buying tools with the intention of returning them, that's shady. There are shady people everywhere unfortunately. I would have to agree with several of you that any professional tradesman should have adequate tools, at least. If they don't have tools I doubt they would have the skills and pride in workmanship to go with them. Not a very high moral character as well. My .02


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Is the contractor a legal immigrant, is he fully licensed/insured/bonded? If not, then turn him in.


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

One of the problems with shady contractors like this is that it makes it tough for everyone else to be trusted by potential customers. If their tool buying practices are like this, chances are their work ethic is the same.
When I bought the house I'm in almost five years ago, someone broke into my garage the first week (hmm…nice neighborhood welcome) and stole about $500 of my power tools (including a brand new cordless drill- if they ever come back, they can have the second battery they missed the first time round; it's no good to me).
The local police said there wasn't much chance these guys would ever get caught. And since the local pawn shops ask for a photo ID to pawn/buy stuff, the cops said one of the main "customer" markets they found were contractors looking for deals… sad..
Oh, and in case you were wondering- the deductible on my house insurance was $500.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

When I worked at Lowes ,two years in a row, someone came in and "bought"(on a credit card) a $900.00 SS outdoor grill the day before the 4th of July. The day after the 4th the grill was returned. Didn't do what they wanted. It looked like there was steak grilled for 40-50 people.
I tried to buy the grill and found out they had to be crushed in the presence of the Store Manager or Ass't SM. and the vendor replaced it. Since it was food service it could not be resold.
Shop Vacs for Drywall jobs were another sore spot. Use it over the week end to do a DW job, bring it back(filthy) and claim it didn't work…credit their credit card.
The slobs that pull crap like this whine about things costing so much and are to stupid to know they are a part of the problem. They are also probably the same ones that leave grocery carts where they roll into your 40k car.
Thank you, I'll get down off the box now.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

The helper said he had a big table saw at the shop but didn't want to haul it to the job. Why rent one if you can use one for free?


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## ChunkyC (Jun 28, 2009)

why not just keep it? Then you'll have a $150 TS for the next job that you can haul around. Some people…


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Some people think they are "Getting Ahead" by pulling this kind of Crap! If these guy can't afford to keep a $150.00 Saw, that kind of speaks for "How Far Ahead" they're really geting! They won't need this type of saw again? Or, do they just go back and get another one??? BS!!!

Another Example. Many years ago my Mothers best friend used to work at Eaton's Canada when they sold Top Quality Everything. She worked in the Jewellery Department. A week or so before a certain Religous (Sorry, I know) Holiday that involved a lot of Celebrations and Swank Outings. She sold MEGA BUCKS of Ladies Jewellery. The week after the Holidays were over it ALL came back to the store.

I used to work in the retail trade. In Canada, BY LAW, the Shop Owner is NOT under any kind of a Legal Obligation to take back what they have sold, UNLESS it is Defective. Even then their ONLY obligation MIGHT be to have it repaired or replaced by the Manufacturer.

In the name of Custoumer Service the Larger Department Stores, would usually take it back and refund the money.

Customers like those Cotractor Idiots take it for granted that they can ALWAYS do what they are doing. MAYBE the Big Retailers should stop doing it, or at least Tighten it up??? EVERYBODY Loses Money or pays for it one way or the other.

They usually have signs all over the place about "Shop Lifting" causing problems for everybody and everybody has to pay for it in the end. I'm just now wondering what costs them the most???

Okay! That's my .02 Cents Worth. Good Post My Man!!

I'm Gone: Rick


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I bought a Ryobi 12" planer from the clearance rack at Home Depot last fall. At the time, I asked the sales clerk what was the story on it and why was it on clearance? He said, "Someone probably bought it, did their project, then returned it before the 30 day refund period expired. Happens all the time." If they have that attitude it's a wonder it doesen't happen more often.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

This is worse than shop lifting. Shop lifters wouldn't get anything that big out the door ;-)) IMO, they should tighten up the policies!!!!! I over heard the building inspector telling them about the framing and firestopping requirements. It was a commercial building. I have my doubts about their being able to frame a house right the first itme ) I used to work with a couiple of "journeyman" electricians who couldn't put a service on a house without a correction from the inspectors. Too bad, but there area lot of clowns out there. They would be gone, but people are always looking for a cheaper deal. They want the laws to protect them from fly-by-night operators, but don't really want to pay the true cost of compliance.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Chuck, That beats me?? I would, but then I'm not a fly-by-night carpenter ;-))


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## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

I've heard of this happening for Super Bowl Parties too… 
People get a huge TV for the game, return it the following day… unbelievable…
I'm just thankful they can't do that with the food!!


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Top: You are right. The same people that hired the FlyBy contractor got just what they paid for. Everyone loses in a deal like this.


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## ScrapArt (Jan 12, 2011)

I work for a Company that sells Doors to the big Boxes.Part of my responsibilities is running the warranty dept for our branch. I could write a Book on what I have come across in the years that I have been there. when you come across some one "Working the System" it burns me to know end(I need my job.. I need my job.. I need my job..)We stand behind our product and when a Claim comes in that you can look at the customers order and see that they had spent the extra money to get a Product that best suits their needs (PT jambs Etc) and have maintained and cared for the product, It is truly enjoyable to service the claim as oposed to the customers who have bought the cheapest product never painted it never maintained it and some how think that they have been wronged. you grit your teeth through those…


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## stevenhsieh (Jan 8, 2010)

Home Depot or Lowes don't care if its used or not, as long last its sell able again. It's put back on self.


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## BobG (Apr 17, 2010)

Deb and I were in KOHLS a couple months ago and had a defective coffee pot to return ( it was bad out of the box). In front of us was a "lady" that had 4 leather belts that were very obviously worn out, the dye was worn off the leather, the belt split at the holes for the loop.

The clerk asked the reason she was returning them only because she didn't have a receipt. She said she thought they should have lasted longer! It was all I could do to keep from saying something [email protected]@ed. deb even poked me in the ribs!

As the "lady" left the counter and we stepped up I just had to say to the clerk. "Did I just hear what I think I heard? She smiled and said , "our return policy is any reason, any length of time!" Too bad they don't sell tools!


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## BobG (Apr 17, 2010)

Mike in Manchester, NH, that is the favorite day for arrons and all the other rental companies. They raise the rate for big screen TV's for that week!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

BobG, That reminds me of going to Redwing store to get a new pair. I told guy my shoes were starting to leak and I needed some replacements. He told me they weren't water proof. I told him I was kidding, they were 3 yrs old and I intended to buy a new pair. I guess that is why he didn't recognize the attempted humor. He probably gets it all the time from people trying to trade worn out ones for new ones.


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## geofftirr (Dec 25, 2011)

Unfortunately I was once employed by a guy who did this bs. Part of the reason I left at the end of the summer and never worked for him again. He was a landscaper doing brick and stone patios. His cutting tool of choice….. A Black and Decker Circular saw with a carbide blade. I kid you not… He would run it till it burned out then send it back on warranty for a new one. It was so bad that he actually had 3 or 4 that he would rotate between return and job. All this to avoid buying the proper tool for the job.


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## iamwelty (Nov 14, 2009)

it's all about ethics… If they would pull a stunt like that, I'm sure they're cutting corners throughout the build. I'm a Tool Nut and I don't hesitate to return a tool that is defective and I enjoy that priveledge. It's Bozo's like those guys that cause problems with the system…

They are thiefs just as bad as if they had walked out of the store with the saw stuck under they're shirt and they brag about doing it?


> ?


? Sigh!


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## oldretiredjim (Nov 14, 2011)

Once saw a guy at HD with a saws-all that looked like it went thru a war. The clerk called a tool guy and they walked off. Never did see if they accepted the tool. I hope they didn't. I buy used form known sources. Will never patronize a pawn shop because most of the stuff they sell is stolen and I have been ripped off before.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

(shrug) I'll buy an open box item that is in good condition, at least in some cases they do get the cost back, though being open box, they are marked down…

But no it is shady, and it wrong, if they will cheat the store they buy it from, they will cheat you.


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

Loren,

I would be willing to bet that you 1) know how to use a tool, 2) use the tool in the way it was intended to be used. A lot of inexpensive tools can give quite good results for a impressive length of time if treated and used with respect.

Steve


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Makes you wonder how unscrupulous they are on the job. 
You can only hope that what goes around, comes around.


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## REK (Aug 30, 2009)

If these contractors have so little reguard for there tools that they return them when the job is done I wouldn't be surprised if a year from now you are watching tv and see holmes on homes visiting to re do all the carpenter work.
Scags come and go all the time!!!!


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

People like that disgust me and i would never recommend them to anyone or even waste my time talking to them. They are downright dishonest in doing that and obviously would be dishonest in whatever they do.
Those are the people who should cut their fingers off with the Ryobi saws.

I guess I made it obvious enough that I do not like dishonest people.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

To me that's like buying an old Craftsman screwdriver for 50 cents and then going into Sears to exchange it for a new one. Legal, but not really ethical in my book.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I know one guy who does that all the time, lives in a $975,000 house and he buys tools like sawzalls or chainsaws that he needs once and returns them. Makes me P.O.'ed.

One thing I wonder about - if that carpenter intended to return the table saw, why didn't he buy a DeWalt?


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

I always wondered why someone wouldn't spend the extra $25K just to say they lived in a million dollar house?


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## Blukey (Feb 20, 2012)

I worked at a certain big blue box that took everything back, and we knew the contractors were using us as a rental company but it was our policy. In my department, lumber, roofers would come in and buy 2×10x12 & roof jacks and then two days later return them with boot prints on them. Home owners would buy a 1×6x10 and return a 1×6x7.5 and get the 10 foot money. Contractors would load up a cart with a few boards, nails, piece of drywall & new nail gun, compressor, rap saw and drill take it to the check out call the customer and say "mrs. Jones I have the stuff for your job, just tell the cashier your credit card info" I really doubt mrs jones knew she was buying new tools! Every time I talked to a contractor about some sketchy return they would say "do you know how much I spent here?" I would smile and think, your not spending "your" money, getting 17% off, your wife returns 10% after the job at full price & your "renting" your tools!

But I really blame the store for allowing it, and in the end the store was closed & management was surprised!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I used to work with a guy who would go out to Best Buy and buy a new camcorder the day before he went on vacation each year. He would use on to record his family on vacation, then take it back to Best Buy and tell them he decided he didn't want it.

This same guy had a scheme he used to steal tips from waitresses, and wouldn't tip the valet at the Las Vegas Hilton because there was no charge for parking.

He wouldn't work on Saturday (he was a 7th Day Adventist), and actually filed complaints with the boss about co-workers (me included) who used forth-right language that offended his 'religious sensitivities'.

I always thought it odd that someone with such a strict moral compass didn't mind stealing from businesses, waitresses, valets, etc.

-Gerry


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Many years ago, the late, great Paul Harvey broadcast only 13% of us live by whet we claim to believe on Sunday Mornings. I believe that to be a very optimistic number.


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

yup, some of the biggest hypocrites I ever met thumped their bibles hardest on sundays. Rest of the time they would steal the dimes off a dead man's eyes.
tom


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I was in Sears back in the '70's and as Charles1958 pointed out there was a saw sitting on a shelf. It looked like it was for sale but I can't remember. I asked about it and the manager said it was brought back as defective. I said , "it looks like it has built a house doesn't it?" The manager said it would make a person wonder. This thing was all covered with crud and dust. Of course we wonder why their customer service has declined and why the tools cost so much.


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