# Serious About Sharpening



## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

I don't know why it took me so long but I figured out that I have to get serious about sharpening. I'm not much on hand tools. I have a set of Marples chisels and a couple of Stanly plans I got at Lowe's. I picked up a cheap honing guide and a two faced oil stone from eagle America thinking that I was all set. Not so. I need a sharpening system. I know that there is all kind of different systems to choose from but it's all very confusing. So, I'm thinking of the Work Sharp 3000 or this Norton system

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-IM83-Portable-Waterstone-Sharpening-System-P137C18.aspx

Of course there is always sand paper. I'll also get the Veritas guide if I go with doing it by hand.
Any advice?
Thanks,


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-8-Dia-Sharp-Diamond-Kit-P405C24.aspx

More bang for your buck. In addition maybe get the 8000 waterstone and a 
nagura stone for polishing.

You're going to flip out when you get surgical ready planes and chisels, I 
know I did. Then you'll sharpen everything in sight.

The water stones are okay but the DMT's stay flat. Usually a combo of what
you like works best. Some say the extra fine DMT doesn't produce a shiny polish
like the 8000 water stone. Water stones work quickly though.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/ST-MAF.XX/Search/psa/3M_Micro_Abrasive_Film__for_Scary_Sharpening_-_PSA

I like using .3micron paper for an extra fine polish when I'm horsing around trying
to achieve a wicked sharp edge.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

this question has come up so many times over the last few days I decided to do some testing of my own. Here is what I came up with.

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/549765

and looking at this thread to might help, http://lumberjocks.com/topics/44593


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Doninvegas, if you only use a limited amount of tools that need to be sharpened, you may want to invest in the WS 3000. I have one and it will handle the requirements that you describe. Plus it can handle other chores like sharpening knives and can also serve as a light duty grinder for shaping small metal items and such.

Sharpening "systems" can be quite expensive. I really think for light sharpening requirements, you would do well with that machine. They can be found for small money on eBay and such or you will find them on sale occasionally.

Good Luck!


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## Gerry1 (Jul 12, 2009)

+1 on the Worksharp 3000. It has provided formost all of my sharpening needs
a is quick and convenient. Lets me get sharp and back to work quickly, with a microbevel
to boot. The cost is a trade off between buying most any other tools to achieve a comparable 
function. In my opinion this tool offsets the initial investment nicely by the convenience and time 
savings. I would recommend it.


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## Arminius (Dec 27, 2007)

I prefer waterstones. I would shy away from 'scary sharp' sandpaper, as it just doesn't make sense over time, but lots of people get good results.

Almost any system commonly used can get excellent results. My overarching advice would be to pick one learning curve and see it through. You can always add refinements, but getting a firm handle on how to produce a good edge on your tool, one way or another, is a gateway skill.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Don't EVEN forget the tried and true Makita system.
I've sharpened for years on this puppy. Wanna get into a sharpening match?
Bill


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## JesseTutt (Aug 15, 2012)

Has anyone looked at the 10" Grizzly sharpening system. It looks to a clone of the Tormak.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*doninvegas*: You are going to get more advice than you can handle when asking a question about which sharpening system you should use, but I will throw in my advice anyway. I am somewhat experienced in the area of sharpening, which is my way of stating that I am more than happy with the results when I sharpen. Having said that, I recently picked up this DVD:

http://www.shopwoodworking.com/last-word-on-sharpening-w5879

I paid $5.00 on super-sale, but it is worth the $25 regular price. Whichever system you choose, this is a great resource for helping to make sense of it all.

Good luck.

Steven


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Hard to beat a Tormak!!!!


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

I knew when I asked this question I would get all kinds of answers. Everyone that sharpens anything prefers something different. It's all a matter of what you have used and what works for you. Since I have never used a "system" I guess I'll have to make a decision and go with it. Since I am a power tool guy I am thinking of the Work Sharp. Like I said I don't use hand tool often but when I do I realize they need to sharp. If the Work Sharp does an adequate job then that is what I'm looking for. I'll also get a book or DVD on this subject but I think they will also tell me all the different ways to get tools sharp. So I'll go with my gut and make my dicsion based on that.
I'm getting way too old to be messing around with a decission as simple as sharpening a chiesl. I just know that what ever I pick must do the job. That was my piont.
Thanks everyone. I value all of your opions.


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## lj61673 (Oct 31, 2011)

I thought the workshop was the answer too…turns out not so much. It could put a decent edge on a chisel but not a great edge. Also not enough capacity for your plane blades unless you purchase some accessory or other. Starts to add up and in the end you have learned nothing about sharpening tools.

Get yourself some decent water stones and a diamond plate to keep them flat and learn how to sharpen by hand, either with a honing guide or freehand. You'll learn a valuable skill and more important you'll learn what sharp really is.


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

Actully That is the way I'm leaning. I need the skill so, like you said, I'll know what sharp is. I might get what waho sugjested. The DMT kit.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

I have a WS300 and japanese waterstones. I use both frequently and like both, but I spend as much time hunting down and rehabbing old tools as most guys spend working in their shop. You will be able to get good results with any of the "systems" suggested, but I think they're a bit expensive for the among of tools you need to sharpen. You might want to look at Lee Valley and look at the 3M Micro Abrasive sheets. Couple them with the Mark II honing guide and you should be all set. Just my $.02


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Let's see; i have a beltsander that I can clamp upside down in my vise, and use a honing guide to hold what I want AT whatever angle I want. Then i go to the oil stones I have (3 of them) with the honing guide still in place. Then to some very, very fine sandpaper. So far, that is all that I need….









YMMV…


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

Ah, come on guys, you're making this even confusing then when I started this thread. Just like the Ibox I just got. It says to just kiss the thing to the blade. Well, I guess I'm not a good kisser. I'm still playing with the thing. Here it is. I have 4 chisels and 2 plans I got from Lowe's. Not sharp. Want to make them sharp. Work Sharp or hand sharpening?????


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Well I've found anything worth kissing should be played with.

If you mean 4 chisels an 2 plan*e*s, then by hand.

If its really 4 chisels an 2 plans, then plan on both.


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

PLANES. I can't decide or spell. My wife and girlfriend think I'm a good kisser but they just might be saying that.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I knew that, just bustin.

My opinion…...you should start by hand, then move into power if you feel you need it.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I just ordered this:

Combination 4in x 36in Belt/6in Disc Sander, upon which I hope to perform the following conversion… "page 20 Belt-Sharpening System - Build your own effective belt-sharpening sysem at a reasonable cost. Jim Echter" in American Woodturner, December 2012.

Total cost = $76 for Belt sander + ~$35-38 for extra parts = $115


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

My entire CURRENT sharpening system for straight blades is as follows:

(2) DMT double-sided diamond plates (XC-C & F-XF)
A 4000 grit waterstone
An 8000 grit waterstone
A double sided 4000/8000 stone will substitute, if money is an issue.

A $12 side clamp guide.

A guide setting jig, which can be built in an hour from instructions on lie-nielsen.com

An optional DMT Dia-Flat to flatten the stones (the XC will work fine for a while)

To use:

*The FIRST time only* (less than 15 minutes on any decent tool) :
- Flatten backs on the XC-C-F-XF DMT progression (you only care about the 1", or so, closest to the edge)
- Set the tool in the guide to the primary bevel using the jig, shape on the DMT XC
- Once you're touching the entire bevel, do a few strokes on the C/F/XF DMT plates.
- Shift the tool five degrees steeper in the clamp using the jig
- Shape a microbevel with the 4000 and 8000 grit stones. Don't switch to 8000 until you feel a tiny wire edge on the back of the edge. This should be ~ 10 strokes on the 4000, 5-10 on the 8000… That's it! 
- Touch up the back by moving on and off the edge of the 8000 grit stone
- Test the edge in pine end grain
- If good, remove the tool and go to work, if not, alternate a few more times on the 8000, front and back.

*Second time on*, do this often… (2 minutes):
- Give the last 3/4-1" of the back 5-10 strokes flat on the 8000
- Clamp the tool in the jig for the micro bevel angle
- Take 5-10 strokes on the 4000 and 5-10 more on the 8000
- Take a few strokes on the back with the 8000
- Test on pine end grain
- Go to work.

*If the microbevel gets more than 1/16-3/32" wide* (2 minutes):
- Clamp the tool in the guide at the primary bevel
- Take 5-10 strokes each on the XC-C-F-XF DMT's
- Go back to "second time on", you've effectively narrowed the microbevel.

I have TONS of sharpening equipment, including a Tormek. This is all I use 99% of the time! Get used to touching up sooner rather than later. Make sharpening part of the ongoing work, not something you do as a specific task. It's amazing how fast and easy it gets with the LN jig, and how good your work is when your tools are ALWAYS very sharp.


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

Don,
I asked my wife (I didn't tell her about the GF) but she insists that I kiss OK???. Anyhow, I'm going to go with sharpening by hand. I think learning the skill will help me going forward.
Thanks everyone.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Strop as you go is a good way of maintaining an edge.
Fasten a piece of leather to some ply, I like the smooth side where others like
the other side, rub on some green honing compound and you're set.

Or, mdf with green honing compound and hone away.

It's amazing how effective it is, plus you probably have the stuff in
your shop already.


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

DoninV
When it is all say and done, sharpening is just to bring two flat surface to meet at one point.
There are many ways to do that. Perhaps some are better than others. Ultimently, you need to understand the mechanics behind it. Identify what you can control. If you do, things would be a lot easier and getting the desired result would be more achieveable.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

"Ah, come on guys, you're making this even confusing then when I started this thread."

O.K. Here's my two cents.

I see this as two different procedures - shaping and sharpening. Shaping is done with a grinder or belt sander. Just be careful not to over heat the edge (turn it blue) and lose its temper. Sharpening is the next step to get a razor sharp edge. And that isn't good enough until you can shave the hair off your arm (yes, that's my test).

Sharpening takes place after shaping. In a nut shell, you just keep honing with finer and finer grits until you can almost shave, then you finish by stropping until you can shave.

For honing, I begin by using finer and finer diamond sharpening hones and finish by even finer diamond laps. Diamond hones cut quickly, do not need a lubricant, stay flat, and last a LONG time. And they are no more expensive than good stones these days. And , quite frankly, I buy my diamond hones at Harbor Freight. These things are all made in China anyway so you might as well get the best deal you can. http://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-2-inch-x-6-inch-diamond-hone-blocks-36799.html. The diamond laps for some reason aren't carried by Harbor Freight so you will have to try Rockler or somewhere else. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2414&site=ROCKLER.

From the diamond laps I begin honing using a very fine hard Arkansas stone. These can be bought in many sizes and shapes at many places.

When the tool edge is almost sharp enough to shave but it doesn't quite, I then begin stropping the edge with a leather strop charged with jeweler's rouge, a super fine abrasive. You can buy a ready-made strop (just Google "leather strop") or buy some leather at Tandy Leather (http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/home.aspx) and rub in some jeweler's rouge obtainable at most hardware stores. I like to use "tooling leather". Don't quit until the edge shaves the hair off your arm.

Once you get a razor sharp edge, all it takes to keep a sharp edge is usually a few swipes on a strop. Sometimes you may have to go back to an Arkansas stone and then strop.

Planeman


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

If you have the cash and willing to spend go for Worksharp 3000. Hand sharpening is a cheaper alternative with the Veritas jig. But both ways requires good sharpening techniques.

You can start with sandpaper first for sharpening. Then move on to more expensive solution when you are ready to move on.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

It helps to think of 'Sharpening' in terms of '*Grinding*' and '*Honing*'. 
Grind the primary bevel- when this is a hollow grind from your Tormek (or similar) this bevel will be there for literally months/years, unless you break or seriously nick the edge. Once you have one of these you will grind everything in sight 
My setup for Grinding & Honing is:-
Tormek T-3 grinding machine ( cheaper than the T-7)

*800* Japanese waterstone - fast(ish) grinding if you don't have a Tormek.

*1200* Japanese waterstone- intermediate for flattening the backs of Blades & Chisels. 
You are wasting yr time if the back is not flat! Truth is I rarely use this one, I go straight to the -

*Superfine* (10,000) Japanese waterstone to hone the secondary bevel. When the (narrow) secondary bevel is blunt or nicked, go back to the 800 jap stone. 
I use the 'Eclipse type' side holding jig. This will hold the chisel/blade *constantly* at the honing angle of your choice. These jigs are 'cheap as chips' take seconds to setup and easy to master. Use this with the Lie Nielsen setup as mentioned by *PilotBarry* and you are laughing. 
This setup has served me well. The technique I use was taught to me by David Charlesworth and is very similar to what *PilotBarry* has described above, just using waterstones. As mentioned previously settle on a system /technique and make it work for you?
You will be amazed with the results. You will buy more and more ( and more and more) hand tools cos you now know how to sharpen them and will enjoy using them!
Welcome to the tip of the iceberg or slippery slope. Lol

Cheers
John


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## johnlowell (Dec 22, 2012)

No good advice from me, my stuff is sometimes sharp, but never scary sharp. Dropped a chisel last week, chipped the edge and cried, all because I did not want to go through the sharpening again. Have some float glass (I think that is what it is called) for sandpaper, a diamond plate (fine), and water stones, mix and match sharpening, but nothing cost much. Presume operator error.

That said, I need to sharpen again.

I did see something new at Ask Woodman, here is the link: 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqtTuVwYBfkwOMtZxf3xBi0URFkvxeAGl

cheers


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm a cabinetmaker for a shop in Naples FL, we build High End stuff, so I rely every day on all my planes and cutting tools. I do not have time to deal with stones, buckets of water and all that mess…..good stones are expensive and need to much care…....

I stick different grades of sand paper on a quarter inch glass plate. With the help of THIS $10 jig, and some of my coffe or water that I have around, I get mirror finish on all my blades.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

lj61673, I know you don't care but that was uncalled for. Especially coming from a guy with one project. Obviously not the helping type.


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## stonedlion (Jan 12, 2011)

I think there are as many sharpening systems as here are people who use them.

I am somewhat new to sharpening myself, having only gotten into hand tools in the last year or so.

I started with a no name $15 honing guide and sandpaper of various grits up to 1500 on a 12×12 inch piece of marble I picked up at a Habitat For Humanity Restore for $3. The results were good, but far from easily repeatable. The honing guide had a couple of measurements in mm stamped on the side for 25 or 30 degrees and that was it. Even measuring with digital calipers, I was always off by a hair.

Frustrated by the lack of consistency, I tried the WorkSharp WS2000. That did not go well for me. There are plenty of guys here who love the WorkSharp system, but I am not one of them.

I returned the WS2000 and bought a Veritas MKII. By far the best system I have found for repeatable, consistent results, sharpening by hand.

In recent weeks I have made the jump from sandpaper to water stones, finishing at 6000 grit. Sandpaper starts getting expensive in the long run if you have much to sharpen. I still use my Veritas MKII, but now the piece of marble and remaining sandpaper get used to flatten my stones.

Along the way I have read discussions here on LJ's, articles in the woodworking press, blogs, watched videos and finally concluded that *the end result is what's important. We all want to work with sharp tools. How you get there is less important.* Experiment and see what "works" for you.

*On a side note:* Water stones has taken me down a side road to try sharpening an old straight razor I have gathering dust in my medicine cabinet. That little experiment has led me to conclude that I need to go higher than 6000 grit, but my initial efforts have produced promising results.


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

*Nothing wrong with lj61673's method.* Sand paper are great. Little coffee helps out a lot on those wet sanding job.  Makes the sand paper goes a lot farther. I think the pros always find simple and less cost solution to achieve the same result.

All these expensive jigs and tools could be worthless for sharpening if you don't understand the mechanics behind it.


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## johnlowell (Dec 22, 2012)

Cool, that made my day! Looks like I (among others) have been promoted to the rank of misanthrope. As a stumbling woodhacker who recently signed up to this website (full of experienced misanthropists), this is indeed a rare honor and I humbly, and begrudgingly, accept.

Still scratching my head as to how multiple sharpening methods link to hating mankind. I do hope the chisels are not the misanthropist, it would be so disappointing.

Bah, humbug (seasonal misanthropist saying), cheers!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

OK *hhhopks*, I'll let Don deal with *@lj61673's* attitude, but you seem to be confused as to whom said what. I am at the point of assuming that since you have 403-day history and @lj61673 has a 425-day history, and that your grammatical skills are equivalent,... you two may be twins. Have you ever met? Geez…

I'm trying to be nice, BUTT… To tell you the truth, I have honed with just the brown contractor's paper on my workbench when working with my chisels. Notice that I said WORKING. I am going to shut up now, as I have already spent several months in suspension for telling pseudo-jocks what to do. *ZZziipp…!*


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

OK, I'll zip.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

go to your happy place guys


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

What the hell people. Last time I'll ask a simple question !!!!!!!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Don,
I understand, and I was going to ask about preferred grits for a belt sander sharpening system!...


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

I used as fine a grit as I can find. I also save any old belts, that are still in one piece.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Why spend a lot of money when you have only a few tools that need sharpening? The scary sharp method to 3000 grit will work just fine. Spend your money somewhere else.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

MIKE: How can I answer Your post about beltsanders for sharpening? YOU have me BLOCKED…. I have used this method for a few years…..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

DMTs is not a bad system, and the Duo Sharps (two-sided) are reasonably priced. With your existing Eclipse-style honing guide, you're in business for plane irons and chisels.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

At one time, that used to a 150 grit belt, until i wore it down. Now, i use it for sharpening. And, any other worn out belts. Just because they won't cut wood anymore, doesn't mean they can't be used elsewhere.

Too bad I am on Mikey's Block list….....


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Bandit, you blocked first but you will have to remember why because I have long forgotten. I have only blocked in return. I will un-block you and let's see how that goes. Fair enough?...

I have found grits down to 600 so far. Just wondering what grits are most useful. for now I will concern myself with lathe tool sharpening since my manual sharpening of HP blades is working well for me at the moment.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

This subject will always open a can of worms. But that's fine. Here in a 'forum' is where we can have a debate on the subject!
I would urge ( my opinion only) that a newbie to sharpening should not use a belt sander, because they will remove metal VERY quickly. Whereas by hand, although slower gives more control over the rate of removal and to some extent the shape of the cutting edge (using a jig). 
So I fully agree with *Francisco*, who as a cabinet maker has not got time to 'fanny on' like I do when messing around in my workshop. Neither do I believe in having a shrine in the corner devoted to the waterstone honing gods! 
Sharpen yr tool then get back to the bench!
I also agree with *Richard* above -you have to be wary of systems that are "all singing, all dancing" that claim to do many jobs at the same time. 
What I have found (IMHO) is that they rarely do one thing well? For instance the TORMEK I only use to put a hollow grind on the tool cutting edge. I then move to the stones to *hone* the cutting angle. I don't use the leather strop wheel cos I think ( my opinion) it rounds over the edge!?

*BUT* (you knew there was a but coming) since I was taught how to grind & hone from David Charlesworth ( sorry to bang on here but if you don't know who he is, find out before you criticise) I enjoy the 'sharpening' process and my skills as a woodworker, have improved. It is an absolute joy to use a properly sharpened chisel, or tuned up bench plane -this makes me happy- I like to "fanny on" in my workshop!

I apologise in advance if the term "fanny on" has a completely different or offensive meaning in the US than here in England. 
Cheers,
John


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Personally I strongly believe that the easiest, cheapest and BEST way to sharpen is by hand except for grinding a new bevel angle or fixing a chip-out on my bench grinder.

Before buying an expensive sharpening machine and wasting bench space, I suggest you take a look at Paul Sellers sharpening blogs which have videos. I changed my hand method to his and got even better results with less effort. I use a DMT diamond plate with 600 and 1000 grit. The first one is how to sharpen chisels and the other is for plane irons.
http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/27886
http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/28099


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Personally I strongly believe that the easiest, cheapest and BEST way to sharpen is by hand except for grinding a new bevel angle or fixing a chip out.

Before buying an expensive sharpening machine and wasting bench space, I suggest you take a look at Paul Sellers sharpening blogs which have videos. I changed my hand method to his and got even better results with less effort, plus with his method my edges last a lot longer. The first one is how to sharpen chisels and the other is for plane irons

http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/27886
http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/28099


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

After I'm done with the sander( instead of a grinder) I move to sand paper, then to my three oil stones. The last one being a "purple looking thing" I get the final hone with.


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