# Bleaching Maple Inlay Strips?



## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

I'm looking for suggestions on making faux holly out of soft maple or similar light colored hardwood by bleaching.

I've got a band saw/lathe project involving bending/interlacing strips of light colored wood such as holly or a clone. I've already glued up & turned a prototype out of a stack of glued Baltic plywood rounds instead of purpleheat just to prove the concept & to prove I can cold bend/glue soft maple into 6" dia bends. It looks very doable.

The strips of maple I do have are 20" x 0.043" (same as my band-saw kerf) x 2", that I want to inlay into a 2" thick block of a purpleheart 11" round turning blank.

What I've seen suggested by Googling "bleaching wood" seem to suggest a surface treatment. I'm hoping to bleach all the way through the thin striping as I've got to remove most of the wood anyway when turning. So I need to bleach through & through the 0.043" thick strips before I cut & glue up the blank.

BTW- I did see some VERY thin white veneer at Woodcraft. But it was too short of length & 5+ times too thin to fill the saw blade gap to keep the grain straight in the purpleheart.

Thoughts?


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

Hi Autumn,

Thanks for the offer but I think my needs would indeed be rather extravagant.

8-24 pieces per plate/bowl depending how many radial vectors I decide on. And anywhere from 18 - 22 inches long and 1.5-2" tall & .1" thick (allowing for 50% waste from the band-saw cut), would be too much.

Each strip is bent as a crescent & offset in the blank spaced every 30-18 degrees around equals a lot of cuts, glue & sawdust just to make a blank for turning.

So if I can bleach a more available wood such as maple it would be better all around. Anyway holly is worth its weight in gold right now. I don't want to collapse that market single-handedly myself !

Thanks,

Dave


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

Whatever you decide to go with on the bleaching side of things, just make sure to neutralize the bleach after you're done. And make sure to wear a chemical cartridge respirator, rubber gloves and log sleeves, goggles, and have plenty of fresh air exchange.

There are 3-basic ways to bleach wood, with each method listed below as a more aggressive technique:
1. Chlorine bleach, not Clorox as it's ptretty weak. Use swimming pool "Shock It" 
2. Oxalic Acid, aka: "deck brightener" 
3. 2-part process, hydrogen peroxide & lye, use individually, rather than mixing them together. Tis is probably te best for what you're truing to do since you're not trying to bleach dyed wood, or remove rust from nail holes, etc. You'll probably need several applications for maximum benefit. This is the most expensive of the 3.

Also be careful when sanding afterwards with any of these bleaching methods.

You can use more than one method, but don't mix the chemicals, and if you do use more than one method, make sure to neutralize between methods.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

*Jonathan* Will any of these methods penetrate all the way through?


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

You're only talking about 3/64" (roughly), so I'd guess with several applications that you might be able to get it to penetrate pretty completely, but I'm not certain? And if you make sure to do it on all sides, you're really only talking about going 3/128th" (roughly) deep. I'd also think it would work a bit better on soft maple, rather than hard maple since it's not as dense.


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the info. I'm off to order some Oxalic Acid from Rockler for the first go-around. And I'll pick up some borax from the supermarket to neutralize. And the recommended safety gear from McMaster-Carr.

I was thinking of making a couple of "dip tanks" from some 30" long x 2.5" dia. PVC pipe & cap. That way I can do all the strips at the same time and hopefully get even result. (Soaking for full penetration instead of just wiping on/off.) I'll see how all that goes.

I'm hesitant to play with hydrogen peroxide. Not only is it hard(er) to get thanks to 9/11 but after reading up on it in Wikipedia, I'm way out of my league in the 28-35% and above range, having zero chem experience in school. Seems like scary stuff at that concentration. (I have this strict policy against messing with rocket fuel & LOX, or their components.) 3% from the corner general store is just fine thank you.
Lye has been another chem I've managed to stay way from too.

I did find a Forest Products Laboratory, Forest Service U.S. Department of Agriculture report on the web that mirrors Johnathan's recommendations. Looking at the appendix and the dates of most of the references it seems pretty old. 1930-40's But it should do the job.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn165.pdf

-Dave


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## RogerBean (Apr 25, 2010)

Dave,
It would be great if you would let us know how this works out. Thanks for posing the question.
Roger


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

you may be able to get oxalic acid for much less at home depot. If I remember right, it is in the tile/grout section. Either way, I don't think you will break the bank, but if it is in fact oxalic acid like a i remember, I think it is only about $3.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I would say unless you use the 2 part bleach you will not get the results you want. By the time you buy all the supplies you could just buy some holly.

http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/hardwoods/pricelist/pricelist.html


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

a1jim-

From Hearne hardwoods.com web page:

"$300 dollar minimum on all phone orders."

And no holly listed online. I did call (phone inquiries are still free), to ask and they have holly only in 4/4. I need as a minimum 6/4 to 8/4.

So back to "better woodworking through chemistry".

My oxalic acid should be here Friday.

If that doesn't bleach enough I'll move up to hydrogen peroxide & lye. (But that stuff is really pushing my comfort level. even with protective chem gear head to toe.)

-Dave


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## okwoodshop (Sep 15, 2009)

Please don't kick me off of LJ's but what about a different material than 'wood' for the white pieces? Some kind of a poly resin? How much of the strips are going to show ?


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

Why would anyone kick you off LJ? It's a very reasonable question. (Speaking as a ex-R/D prototype tech who will use ANY material no matter how unconventional, to make something.)

I wanted a light colored/high contrasting wood strip like holly (think pin striping) in a dark purpleheart base.

Thing is that the strips go all the way through the block vertically. And the block gets turned at a rather high rate of speed into a plate or low bowl. I'd hate to have a 12×12 x 2" round with anywhere from 8 to 24 strips inserted around the center blow up on me. So I was leaning more toward wood on wood rather than wood on plastic in this case. I'm not sure I could come up with a strong enough glue joint.

But it's a good thought.

I already did this as a proof of concept with red oak strips in a scrap plywood block. Just to prove my off center bandsaw jig I made for cutting repeatable crescents works. But the scrap plywood test piece is sure uglier than sin after quick turning on the lathe!

I need to get my hands on a digital camera w/ a good macro lens. Describing what I'm trying to do with just words sucks.

-Dave

BTW Getting back to "unconventional".

Guy at the 2010 AAW symposium was demoing a way of turning a block of stacked (think log cabin) long dried GRASS on a lathe. He deep froze it in water & dry ice into a block. Turned it & let the water melt out afterward. Messy yes. But it worked after a fashion. But not on my new Oneway 2436 lathe!


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## RogerBean (Apr 25, 2010)

Dave,
Speaking of unconventional solutions. Back when I was making some custom knives there was a knife handle spacer material usually referred to as "fiber" spacers which were used to create the colored lines between the handle material and the blade (on knives where the handle material was attached to the back half of the blade steel). I believe all this material consisted of was resin impregnated paper, as it was stiff and hard, but thin enough to make a nice 16th inch or so line. Hope this is making some sense. Point is you may be able to make up our own material. Glues well with epoxy in the knife application. Unusual, but might be worth a look.

I've been using maple veneer in the lines on my boxes, but sometimes a streak shows up and I have to discard the line. Hence, I'm always looking for alternatives. As you mention, holly is hard to find - as is thick satinwood or castello.
Roger


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

OK. Since I haven't (as of yet) gotten my hands on a "Camera w/ a good macro lens" here are two quick JPEGs of some AutoCAD files. I design mostly in AutoCAD.

One shows the concept of the overall blank I'm trying to make using an off-center circle jig for a bandsaw.

Sorry if the pictures are not centered. I've never generated jpegs from AutoCAD before or ever used Photobucket. More to learn.










The next one shows just the holly strips to give you a better idea of the zillions of pieces I'll end up with after just 10 strips. I'm giving myself a range of 4 to 24 strips. That's why I was afraid of cornering the market on holly. Each strip width is the same as a bandsaw cut. So I get a yield of only 50% per block of wood.










Yes the ends of the strips are too long. I'm allowing .25" to be turned off each end when turning. That should bring the tips together.

So this brings me full circle back to my original question. I need to bleach the strips through & through because I'm not sure what the final shape will look like till I'm done turning.

I'll find out soon enough with the help you all have given me.

-Dave


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

N6DSW, get a Nikon D40. If yoiu understand photography and its features, there is literally no reason for any other camera to exist at that level. I tqke pictures of bees in flight with mine just for the heck of it


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

Update:

This plate project has spawned into 6 other separate projects.


Made some AutoCAD drawing "blanks" allowing me to enter the dia of the blank, the dia of the finished piece, the diameter of the inner circle of strips in the blank, and the number of vector points so I can model the piece before I actually do any cutting. Drawing/modeling it out first in AutoCAD sure is faster, cheaper & less wasteful than actually designing "on the fly" with wood. It also is REALLY easy to fix "mistakes". GRIN (Tested & done)


The main bandsaw jig for cutting repetitive off-center cuts in a lathe blank. (Tested & done)


I ended up building a small PVC steam box out of 3" PVC pipe and the pink ridge foam insulation for pre-bending the hardwood strips into VERY tight radius bends before glue-ups. (Tested & 95% done)


As TopamaxSurvivor suggested I went out & ordered up a Nikon (I upgraded his D40 suggestion to a D90), and a mid-range Nikkor walk-around zoom lens. Should be here today if the UPS guy would ever show up. He had it on his truck yesterday per the website, but missed the scheduled delivery date. So I'm in "stalking-the-UPS-guy" mode as I speak. I did film 27 years ago. So the basics are there. I just need to update/adjust to the new technology format.


And to go with the camera and taking pictures is a small shooting board and lights. (Done)


Lastly (and coming back to my original post) is the set-up for safely trying out various bleaching techniques for the wood strips. I made some dip tanks out of 3" dia. PVC tubing 24" long.

I'll post more as things start coming together in the following weeks.

-Dave
(How come every passing vehicle in front of my house the last two days sounds like a UPS truck?)


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

I tried to edit the Photobucket pictures after the fact and screwed them up in the post above. So let me start over to show you a quick rendering of what I'm trying to accomplish.

One shows the concept of the overall blank I'm trying to make using an off-center circle jig for a bandsaw.



The next one shows just the holly strips to give you a better idea of the number of intersections I'll end up with after just 10 strips. I'm giving myself a range of 4 to 24 strips. That's why I was afraid of cornering the market on holly. Each strip width is the same as a bandsaw cut. So I get a yield of only 50% per block of wood when I cut the block into strips. (Other 50% is sawdust.)



Yes the ends of the strips are too long. I'm allowing .25" to be turned off each end when turning. That should bring the tips together.

-Dave


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

You'll be happy with the D90 for sure!! I need to spend some time an learn what all mine will do. It is so awesome, i haven't bothered. The only negative thing I would say is the operators manual take s a lot of flipping around to figure something out. Google for "User's Guide". The guy that wrote them put it in an organized format that is easy to follow. You'll never regert it. Don't even bother with the manual )


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

5 month check in-

I took some maple strips and tried to bleach them using pool bleach at 10% strength. Neutralized w/ borax solution.

The results are that it indeed lightened the surface a little bit initially. But looking at it almost 5 months later it has turned a very dark yellow. I would have a better effect if I had just left the maple test strip alone.

I did turn a shallow 10" dia. purpleheart bowl inlaid with 14 maple strips (unbleached). And it (almost) came out the way I wanted. Found a crack end to end right down the middle once I started turning So I turned 1/4 inch sides but kept the bottom about 1/2" thick. I didn't want to push it blowing up. So it is a heavy tall and shallow soup bowl. I think the maple strips I glued in kept the 2 halves of the blank together while I turn it out. But since it was a prototype just to prove the idea, I'm happy.

So forget bleaching for now.

I'm trying to build a better jig that will allow any size from 6" to 24" inch in diameter blanks to be band sawed and 4-24 strips glued in.

If it plays out I'll turn it into a blog and a project.










Better woodworking through chemistry? Think I could make the cover of GQ?

My neighbor came home and saw me and my chemistry setup. So she took a quick shot of me with her cell in-between waves of giggling herself to death. That's me right after the first piece came out of the bleach tank (2" PVC tube) to the lower right on the sawhorse, The other is borax to neutralize. I burned up an OLD hotplate trying to warm up the bleaching solution in the tin bucket you see.

I was expecting the cops to show up thinking I was running something illegal like a meth lab. (But I wasn't Officer sir!)

-Dave


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Im not giggling, Im LOL! BUT you do look very safe.


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