# Lie-Nielsen vs. Veritas vs. older Stanley Jack Plane



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

Greetings folks. If money was no object and you wanted to buy a Jack Plane which brand would you buy and why?


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

One of each too see which one I liked the best. 
My unsolicited advise is to have a little new and a little bit of old.

Good Luck


----------



## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

I really want to say the new Veritas custom 5 or 5-1/2 but it looks like the extra options are all additional costs so that rules them out entirely.

I guess I would go Bed Rock Type 6a with a Veritas PM-V11 iron. Or a Marsh M5 with the same Vertisas iron. Kind of a toss up there.


----------



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Well for a jack plane, i'd just stick with an older stanley since I would camber the blade and use it more like a jack/fore plane. If I just had to spend money, I would go LN since I can't stand the look of Veritas handles.


----------



## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

Most vintage Stanley #5 with veritas PMV-11 iron, my Bailey has the 1910 Pat.


----------



## KYtoolsmith (Oct 13, 2018)

Well… If money were no object… I'd get two. A Stanley Bailey No 5 Type 11, and a Stanley Bedrock 605 Type 8. Both in pristine original condition of course! Oh wait! I've already got both. !!! Darn the bad luck…









Regards, The Kentucky Toolsmith!


----------



## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Lie Nielsen with a 50 degree frog. Zero tear out on maple butcher block work top.


----------



## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

Money no object? Lee Neilson. Not really sure it's that much better than the Veritas, but my perception fo the two items I've never owned….

Reality? I'm actually looking for a good 5 1/5, or 605 1/2 Bedrock now. But, I don't have the money for an LN. Heck, I don't really have the money for a Bedrock 605 1/5 either. LOL. Honestly, I'll just keep looking for a deal somewhere.


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I think the old Stanleys are a lot more fun, kind of a hobby, but also some work to keep them doing well.

For new, I'm a devote Lee Valley buyer, user, lover. Those you pay once, and then just use them effortlessly forever.

To me the Lie Nielsen's are just Stanleys made with 21st century metal technology. Well, a few of the low angle's are a bit more advanced..

I always suggest this, but not sure if anyone does it. Both LN, and LV travel the same show circuit. Find out when they will be closest, go and they will let you freely use their entire inventory. Pick the one you like the most. I've been to close to 40 of them, and always end up with Lee Valley.

For the Stanleys, if you live in a larger area. Put up a post with your general location, and ask if any Stanley 605 owners would let you grope their plane. Bring a small gift of gratitude, and I'll bet you get invited back. Well I say grope, lets not get crazy there…..


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

If money was no object, I'd have all three plus a couple Sargent's, a few Miller's falls, an Ohio tools, a ride City, a Marcou, and who know how many others

Since money is always an object, I'd stick with vintage, just because they're much more interesting


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

> I think the old Stanleys are a lot more fun, kind of a hobby, but also some work to keep them doing well.
> 
> For new, I m a devote Lee Valley buyer, user, lover. Those you pay once, and then just use them effortlessly forever.
> 
> ...


I looked at the pics of the Veritas Jack on the LV website. The adjustments appear to be the same as the new Stanley SW, which I sold because I absolutely hated it. Every time I went to use it the depth setting was different from the previous use. It changed just sitting in the box. I have PTSD over this POS.

Is the LV adjustment the same?


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Hmmm…









No words needed…


----------



## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

None of those…................................

this is the money no object plane of choice for the well healed:

https://bridgecitytools.com/collections/planes/products/hp-12-smoothing-plane


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

> None of those…................................
> 
> this is the money no object plane of choice for the well healed:
> 
> ...


Allow me to redefine money no object: $400 max.


----------



## AGolden (Mar 22, 2020)

I would go with the Lie-Nielsen no. 62 low angle jack plane, I like the look of the Lie-Nielsen planes better. I also find the Norris adjuster on my Stanley Sweetheart low angle jack is a bit fiddly and can get knocked out of alignment when I adjust the blade depth, not sure if this is the case on the Veritas planes but it would definitely effect my decision until I have evidence to the contrary.

However, in an ideal world all of my bench planes would be Lie-Nielsen and all of my joinery/block planes would be LV Veritas. I will say that the one place where the innovation in design is really attractive is on those joinery planes such as the router plane and plow plane and I think Veritas has done a better job innovating on that front (disclaimer, i have a Lie-Nielsen router plane that i love)


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Allow me to redefine money no object: $400 max.

- dbw
[/QUOTE]



> None of those…................................
> 
> this is the money no object plane of choice for the well healed:
> 
> ...


Too late
https://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/karl_holtey_planes.htm


----------



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> None of those…................................
> 
> this is the money no object plane of choice for the well healed:
> 
> ...


I've never cared for the looks of their tools. Too overdone future-y stuff for my taste. But for those that do I am guessing some cheaper knockoffs will be out soon now that its a chinese company.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> None of those…................................
> 
> this is the money no object plane of choice for the well healed:
> 
> ...


More importantly….....I wonder how they preform. I can stand an ugly duckling if it does a great job.


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

> I would go with the Lie-Nielsen no. 62 low angle jack plane, I like the look of the Lie-Nielsen planes better. I also find the Norris adjuster on my Stanley Sweetheart low angle jack is a bit fiddly and can get knocked out of alignment when I adjust the blade depth, not sure if this is the case on the Veritas planes but it would definitely effect my decision until I have evidence to the contrary.
> 
> However, in an ideal world all of my bench planes would be Lie-Nielsen and all of my joinery/block planes would be LV Veritas. I will say that the one place where the innovation in design is really attractive is on those joinery planes such as the router plane and plow plane and I think Veritas has done a better job innovating on that front (disclaimer, i have a Lie-Nielsen router plane that i love)
> 
> - AGolden


What is/are the advantages of a low angle vs. a standard angle?


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> What is/are the advantages of a low angle vs. a standard angle?
> 
> - dbw


Almost any well tuned plane will do the job. The rest is all about personal preference.

I have an LN #62. What a great plane, but probably one of the least used planes in my shop. You will eventually find what you like, but if it's just about getting the job done, don't overthink it.


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

> What is/are the advantages of a low angle vs. a standard angle?
> 
> - dbw
> 
> ...


I guess the real question is: why would one use a low angle plane in the first place. I have to admit I'm a power tools kind of guy and hand tools are a bit foreign to me. Hence the ignorance.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Low angle planes are best for end grain. There is also a difference in how they can be sharpened to gain a different angle of attack. Also switching between blades with different angle is easier, because there is no frog to contend with, and adjustment is said to be easier.


----------



## AGolden (Mar 22, 2020)

> I guess the real question is: why would one use a low angle plane in the first place. I have to admit I m a power tools kind of guy and hand tools are a bit foreign to me. Hence the ignorance.
> 
> - dbw


Don is right, and maybe someone more experienced than myself can chime in but this is why i like them. The blade is (usually) bedded at 12 degrees, if you sharpen a 25 degree bevel on your iron you get a 37 degree cutting angle (hence the low angle) for end grain. if you sharpen a 30 degree bevel on the iron you get a 42 degree cutting angle which is closer to a standard cutting angle. so with one plane you can have multiple options which is nice. This is something you can't really do with a bevel down bench plane without putting a back bevel on the iron.

I am starting to think that the term "bevel up" is more accurate than "low angle". While a lot of bevel up planes come with a 25 degree iron, the angle can easily be changed to something else which really doesn't make them "low angle" anymore.

I see that Veritas makes both "low angle" and "bevel up" planes and aside from some other cosmetic things I don't think there was any difference besides the angle the blade was sharpened at but please someone correct me if I am wrong, I would really like to know if I am missing something there.


----------



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

You can change the effective angle of bevel down but you mainly do so by changing the frog as mentioned. However in reality most people that actually end up using planes will have a different plane for various uses. So the "benefit" of LA jack planes pretty much disappears in actual usage for the majority.


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

What do you folks think of a Bed Rock 605 type 10? $225. Worth it? there is a bit of surface rust on the sole.


----------



## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thats high for a rusty 605.


----------



## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

Gave $150 shipped for that last month. Type 5 or 6 Bed Rock 605C with a spare V-Logo iron. I'd say $225 is rather high unless its in "founders grade" condition…and then it's not likely going to be a user.


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I think the old Stanleys are a lot more fun, kind of a hobby, but also some work to keep them doing well.
> 
> For new, I m a devote Lee Valley buyer, user, lover. Those you pay once, and then just use them effortlessly forever.
> 
> ...


Sorry I lost track of this thread.

I would think the wonky part on a modern day Stanley which is junk, would be miles different than the LV, or LN planes, the LN's are modeled after older Stanley's, but I skimped saying they only used modern day metals, all the irritants are better, just sometimes I like the LV's and what they did with the works. As a matter of fact, unless it's had issues past the build date even older Stanleys would operate miles better than the new junk. It's not just looking alike that makes the difference. In the abstract a Hugo, and a Rolls both look like a car….. Do ya see where I'm going with that.


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> What do you folks think of a Bed Rock 605 type 10? $225. Worth it? there is a bit of surface rust on the sole.
> 
> - dbw


If you are looking for a user a #5 will do just fine, adding "bedrock" to the equation just raises the price, and starting out I wonder if you could tell the difference in what they do for you. C is also a buzzword = $$$$$ It's a corrugated plane is all, and on a 7 or 8 I'd say yes sir, go for a C. On a 5, again you won't notice much difference, if any.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> What do you folks think of a Bed Rock 605 type 10? $225. Worth it? there is a bit of surface rust on the sole.
> 
> - dbw


I've got a fully restored and tuned 605 that's been my user for the last several years I will be sell in that price range.


----------



## mdhills (Mar 12, 2011)

I have two jack planes:
- stanley bailey #5 with hock iron and chip breaker, highly cambered blade, and the mouth opened up a bit with a file.
- LV low angle jack with uncambered blade and also a toothed blade

I giggle in spite of myself when using the stanley. I like the light weight of the Bailey and the overall plane setup works very well for rough flattening. I feel like I'm getting away with something because of how well this works without being a fancy plane.

I'd originally gotten the LV LAJ for versatility, including the ability to shoot. The toothed blade was absolutely excellent for flattening my benchtop (reclaimed doug fir with some reversing grain and knots)-the toothing left a textured surface, but without long gouges of tearout I'd get with a flat or cambered blade. I still use the plane for occasional edge jointing, as well. I've since picked up a LV shooting plane, although I don't use planes for squaring edges a lot.

Of the two, the Bailey sees more use and makes me happier.

If you watch Rob Cosman's youtube channel, you'll see him use a LN#5 frequently-smoothing, shooting, etc. I don't think he uses it for rough work.

I would not be particularly tempted by a bedrock at this point, unless you just found yourself drawn to the idea of it. I think the Bailey design is great for most advantages of a vintage plane. The LN planes are very well-made versions of the bedrock design that don't require rehabilitation. I use a LN#4 as my smoother and quite like it.

My bailey #7 is corrugated. The plane works fine for flattening panels, but the corrugation can be a bit annoying when working on edges. I wouldn't go out of my way to get it on a plane.

Matt


----------



## mdhills (Mar 12, 2011)

DBW-why do you want a jack plane?

Are you missing that 12" jointer and want something to get a board flat enough to run through a benchtop planer?
or are you looking to smooth table tops?
or something else?

Matt


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

> DBW-why do you want a jack plane?
> 
> Are you missing that 12" jointer and want something to get a board flat enough to run through a benchtop planer?
> or are you looking to smooth table tops?
> ...


I want a Jack because I don't want to invest in multiple planes. I want to use a plane for edge jointing (prior to glue-up), smoothing (prior to using a card scraper), and end grain work. My jointer is a planer sled and shims  Do you think I can use a LN LAJ for all this? I am seriously thinking of getting one of these.


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

I have a Stanley #5..I have 2 Millers Falls No.14s, and a pair of Sargent #414s…each set up just a hair different than the others….with in reason, they can joint an edge, shoot end grain IF need be…and can flatten glued up panels…I have an old Corsair C-5, with a 8" camber, to take care of any rough sawn stuff….

They are called "Jack planes" for a reason….
Then there are the Jumbo Jacks, and a Junior Jack….


----------



## planepassion (Nov 24, 2010)

For years, I used a vintage Stanley and it worked ok. Then one day the adjustment became wonky. So I bought a Lie Nielsen #5…and never looked back. I love the sturdier feel of it, the thicker blade, adjustment is easy and it tackles whatever I throw at it with ease. The only wish I have would be to have a Veritas PM-v11 blade made specifically for it.

Three years of use validates my decision. I'm happy with a jack that will serve my woodworking needs for the rest of my life.


----------



## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> I want a Jack because I don t want to invest in multiple planes.
> - dbw


That will work if you have the patience and understand the time it take to switch between setups each time you need to. The LAJ is definitely better for this and a Bailey type. I often times find myself switch planes quite frequently as I work down a piece. But again, that's me.

I hate the wasted time, but that's just me. If I was going to do this however I think I'd prefer the #164. At least you have one of the best smoothers and so-so everything else, rather than so-so everything except the rough stuff that really doesn't matter. All that said, I've not looked into the changeability of the 164 to see if it's the same as the 62.


----------



## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Only used a prestige plane a few times. Don't see any difference to my old Baileys which of course all have Hock irons. The iron does the cutting. How pretty it is does not change how sharp it is.

Any comments on Bridge City? A while back, beach body planes were all the rage.


----------



## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

it depends on what you want a jack plane to do. Traditionally, the jack is used as a roughing plane, not a smoothing plane.

The best jack is a woodie - light and nimble, and untiring as you use it to take down excess waste when flattening a board.

My go to …










In this vein, I would not waste money on a LN or Veritas, not to mention that they are heavy and ergonomically all wrong for this task. Get a Stanley #5 or, if you want a classier version, a Stanley Bedrock #605.










Camber the blade to a 10-12" radius. Keep a second blade for the occasions you want a shorter jointer.

The second type of jack is the BU or low angle jack. This is a good choice for those wanting an all-rounder: short jointer, long smoother/panel plane and shooting plane. You need two blades again: one 25 degrees for shooting and traversing; the other at 38- or 50 degrees for faces and edges.

It is also possible to use this plane for roughing out …










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

> it depends on what you want a jack plane to do. Traditionally, the jack is used as a roughing plane, not a smoothing plane.
> 
> The best jack is a woodie - light and nimble, and untiring as you use it to take down excess waste when flattening a board.
> 
> ...


At what angle would you grind the iron on a BU Jack for face/edge work? The bedding angle is 12 degrees, correct?


----------



## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

*At what angle would you grind the iron on a BU Jack for face/edge work? The bedding angle is 12 degrees, correct?*

It depends on the wood you use. My local West Australian timbers are hard and interlocked, which makes them prone to tearout. I only use a 50 degree bevel (50 degree micro secondary bevel on a 25 degree primary bevel), which has a slight camber. This creates a 62 degree cutting angle.

For USA timbers, which are fairly benign and straight-grained, you should be able to get away with a 38 degree bevel (again, micro secondary bevel on a 25 degree primary bevel).

This article I wrote is highly relevant if you want to camber BU blades: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------

