# What I love about Phillips screws



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

1)
2)
3)
4)


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

Your list is much longer than my list of what I like about normal slotted screws. Phillips are a cut above them, if the cuts into the head are made well with good, sharp edges. This also requires a good quality screw driver to mate with the the screw head.

I opt for square drive screws whenever I can. The "combo square - Phillips" types are next in line.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Everything until my helper strips them out.


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

Use an impact driver, and you won't hate them nearly as much.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

Torx 
and if want some good reading on screw heads!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Do you hold the screw with needle nose pliers when you start them with an impact driver?
I'm spoiled. I expect to be able to stick a screw on the driver bit and have it stay there.
I buy the combination square/ Phillips when I can find them or the star drives which I quite like but when it comes to small sizes here in Green Valley Az. It's Phillips or nothing.

Today I was installing full extension drawer slides with 1/2" pan heads. I got to spend all afternoon installing four drawers. With Robertsons it would take a half hour …. maybe.

Rant, rant, ....

The list could actually have been longer but the other points would have been nothing*,* like the first four.


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

I love that more fastener companies are producing the torx head. that is what i love about phillips head


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I really love small stainless Philips screws


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Hate phillips, love only slotted screws in furniture making.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Most of the screws I use are Phillips, not because their better, just old habits I guess. I use the mag tips and the screws don't fall off but putting in drawer guides the screw will sometimes magnate to the side of the screw hole on the metal guide. I'm hoping all afternoon to put in 4 drawers is an exaggeration. (with any screw.) Slotted head with a screw driver wouldn't take that long.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Another one for Torx!


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## mauibob (Jan 1, 2010)

I agree, your list is too long, Paul  Add the words "solid brass" to the mix, and your list gets much shorter.


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## lateralus819 (Mar 24, 2013)

I switched to Torx and they're the best IMO. I almost never strip them out.


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## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

They're not the perfect answer, but I use a bunch of them with little problem. Magnetized drivers help, and I can get them in every size I need and they're cheap. You are old enough to remember straight slotted screws for most applications. Now those were a pain, but I still am trying to use up here and there ones I "inherited" from my Dad, that were left over from his woodworking business from the 50's to the 70's They work too. waste not, want not….........


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

I get'em from McFeeleys & don't even think of a local store for them…


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## eflanders (May 2, 2013)

I find it rather interesting a ship wright would like anything but slotted screws! Restoring an old wood boat and trying to remove a lot of non slotted screws is difficult at best. However there is no denying installing slotted screws takes a lot more time if using power drivers. For those folks that don't know the obvious, brass, bronze and stainless screws used in boat building cannot be held by magnetic tip drivers. Many ship wright's use the brace and bit for driving and removing slotted screws for speed and torque. (Many prefer slotted screws because the slots can easily be cleaned of built-up paint, varnish and even epoxy.)

Now we all know that most woodworking is a lot different than boat building. When I build anything but a boat or outdoor wood project, I use Torx, Robertson or Phillips head screws. Slotted screws in my opinion are only good in projects that you expect to disassemble at some point.


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## tinnman65 (Jan 19, 2009)

We use both Phillips and sq drive at work by the 1000's and I do prefer sq drive but cheap screws or drivers of either kind is a deal breaker. Also have you ever tried to drive a #1 size sq drive screw with an impact gun, I won't even use them anymore. I guess my vote would be for torx screws but they just don't seem to be as available as the others. I don't think I have ever even seen a brass torx screw. With all that said, I feel your pain


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

The answer lies up North - Robertson


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Mcmaster.com has every fastener know to man and delivers EVERYTHING overnight.

M


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

You have a typo in #2


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Interesting discussion, I didn't expect this much.

*eflanders* it is not at all "interesting" that a shipwright in Canada would use Robertson Screws, my all time favourite.
I have re-fastened older boats with both slot and Phillips screws and neither was easy to remove. Slots are of course better than Phillips but no match for Robertson IMHO. My preference in planking fastenings is silicon bronze Robertson.

*ThomasChippendale*, I agree, we are lucky in Canada. Unfortunately the original patent holder (Robertson) was apparently not an easy man to deal with, hence the scarcity outside Canada.

I will try magnetized drivers but they will still tend to kick out sideways if pressure is not straight down the axis of the screw.
I have tried torx (Stardrive) and like them but they are not readily available in small sizes and still kick out more than Robertson.
Thanks for all the comments. I am listening but I will be a hard sell to get me to like Phillips. Sorry!


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## woodwasp (Nov 3, 2012)

The thing with Phillips heads that drives me insane is trying to line up the slots with the grain!!


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Phillips screws should be banned


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

Just curious…what is so awesome about square-head "Robertson" screws?

And no, that isn't a challenge, but a real question. I simply don't know and would like some education.


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

> Just curious…what is so awesome about square-head "Robertson" screws?


As soon as you use them, you'll know. Cam-out and stripped heads are instantly a thing of the past.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

You can still cam out and strip heads but you really have to try a lot harder. 
For me it is mostly that you can stick the screw on the driver or driver bit and it will stay there while you reach into somewhere and install the screw with one hand. They seldom kick out on you even if the pressure isn't straight down the screw.
I admit that I haven't tried the magnetic drive bits for Phillips but not falling off is only half the battle. They will still kick out very easily in one handed use, especially without a pilot hole.


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## verdesardog (Apr 2, 2011)

Philips screws were designed for automated assembly, they intentionally release the driver with little effort!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

As a contractor I build a lot of decks ,through the years I used Phillips,then square drive and for the past 5 years Torx and of course there are fasters for deck that are hidden and even shot from nail guns. On shorter screws magnetic tips is the only way to go and with deck screws I always use a guide bit holder that hold the screws so steadying the screw with one hand while the holder holds the screw in the holder on your screw gun.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> You can still cam out and strip heads but you really have to try a lot harder.
> For me it is mostly that you can stick the screw on the driver or driver bit and it will stay there while you reach into somewhere and install the screw with one hand. They seldom kick out on you even if the pressure isn t straight down the screw.
> I admit that I haven t tried the magnetic drive bits for Phillips but not falling off is only half the battle. They will still kick out very easily in one handed use, especially without a pilot hole.
> 
> - shipwright


I use these (see below) for drawers. I like the washer head. It doesn't show, but they have a pretty good sharp point. I run them into melamine and they don't try to slide if your not exactly straight, even though I always try to be straight anyway. I don't think any type screw is any different when it come to the angle of attack, depending on the points of the screws.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> I use these (see below) for drawers. I like the washer head. It doesn t show, but they have a pretty good sharp point. I run them into melamine and they don t try to slide if your not exactly straight, even though I always try to be straight anyway. I don t think any type screw is any different when it come to the angle of attack, depending on the points of the screws.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wasn't referring to the tip sliding off position. I was referring to the driver tip popping out of the screw head when the tip of the screw is stuck on the wood surface and the angle of pressure is off a little. Robertson is very forgiving that way by comparison.
Those look like good screws for the job. I looked long and hard at some 1/2" sheet metal screws with hex heads but was afraid they would be too high to clear inside the slide.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> I wasn t referring to the tip sliding off position. I was referring to the driver tip popping out of the screw head when the tip of the screw is stuck on the wood surface and the angle of pressure is off a little. Robertson is very forgiving that way by comparison.
> 
> - shipwright


Oh, OK I misunderstood. You do have a point there.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Philips or Torx but *not square drive ever*!
I throw slotted screws away as they are a nuisance.
The best screws I have ever used are from Fastap


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## kiefer (Feb 5, 2011)

GRK torx drive are the best I have ever used but Robertson are what I mainly use because I can get them in any size and the price is right for Phillips I get serrated driver bits and they help a lot with cam out and there are also different types of Phillips like one you find on EURO hinges and hardware I have a matching driver for them .


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

I agree Phillips are the worst and it would be better if they were banned. As soon as I found out Phillips screws were actually designed to cam out I looked for alternatives. I love Robertson/square drive and buy them any time I can.

Slotted screws work a lot better with a sharpened screwdriver tip that fits perfectly in the slot, and even better if the screwdriver has a slight hollow grind so that the driver bites at the bottom of the slot. The fact that slotted screws work so much better with a sharpened well fitting driver has been mostly lost to history. Probably Phillips fault, so another demerit there.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

My fave screw are cap head machine screws in stainless. They look cool and the jatoba I tend to use threads nicely.

M


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

They all have their place, even slotted screws, which are the traditional wood screw. It all depends upon the application. For some reason an exposed, slotted screw isn't ass offensive to my eye as would be a Torx, or one of the other variants. Having a shoulder in many instances, is required. Some of the other variants aren't, to my knowledge, available that way.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> Those look like good screws for the job. I looked long and hard at some 1/2" sheet metal screws with hex heads but was afraid *they would be too high to clear inside the slide*.
> 
> - shipwright


The screw I posted a pic of is only a little over 1/16" maybe .080


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

The main problem with all but the slotted screws is that the screwdriver cannot be sharpened. I regularly take my straight screwdrivers to the grinder and grind a nice flat end and a hollow face so they grip the slot. For Phillips and Robertson, you pretty much have to throw away your driver because every time it slips, it gets worn and will only worsen with time.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

We,ll just have to agree to disagree I think PJ.
To each his own.


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

Thats OK, I don't throw away my Phillips and Robertson drivers either, but when I get a new bit on a driver with a replaceable insert and I match the size of the bit to the screw with no slop, I have less chances of slipping. If I look at my old hand drivers, they are worn and when I get to drive a large screw in very hard wood, they slip and I get a new bit. In factories, we changed phillips driver bits, they wore out. This is especially frequent with powers drivers.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*oldnovice
*

*Thank you for that Source & link!*

I ended up at ScrewOutfitters.com where I found very reasonably priced screws.
Free shipping if only ordering $15 (or more)

*I could NOT find any Torx screws at all…* Just Phillips and Square drive (which I like to use).

They look like a pretty good company… I placed a small order with them just to see how it goes.

I think they will workout very well!

Their selection is very limited… but, if you need what they have, it's pretty hard to beat'em.

*Thanks again!*

EDIT: I just noticed that *they will send you a Sample Pack FREE... Completely FREE!*


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## hooky (Apr 25, 2009)

Keifa the euro hinges use a drive similar to Philips called pozzi and if you can get those screws and drivers they are fare superior to Phillips


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## Druid (Sep 30, 2010)

Ok, I'll toss in a couple of comments. First of all, I totally agree with Paul's original list that started this discussion!
When my son was first learning to use tools, he asked me what kind of screws are the best? Part of my response was to remind him that when something is not worth using, we usually mark an "X" on it, and Phillips screws come with that "X" built right in.
My preference is Robertson, and as Paul has pointed out, stripping or camming is pretty difficult to do.



> Just curious…what is so awesome about square-head "Robertson" screws?
> 
> And no, that isn t a challenge, but a real question. I simply don t know and would like some education.
> 
> - JeffP


JeffP - Here's another way of demonstrating the excellent grip between a *non-magnetized* Robertson driver, and a matching screw, and I've been using this screwdriver for over 30 years. Maybe it holds better because it's experienced?








Love those Robertson's.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)




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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

"I throw slotted screws away as they are a nuisance." 
I couldn't agree more. I HATE slotted screws.

I use phillips screws a LOT. I like the square drive also. The torx, not so much due to lack of proper drivers wherever I happen to be standing.

ALL screws drive better if properly driven. I've adopted a phrase or two:

"I'm old enough to know which tool is the right one for the job" 
"I'm also old enough to be able to afford the right tools."

As was mentioned, an impact driver is the best for driving a phillips screw.


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## OldGuysRule (Sep 27, 2015)

Good grief Paul did you ever stir the pot!

I've had trouble from time to time with any type of screw. Just less with Robertson and Torx.


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## OldGuysRule (Sep 27, 2015)

Maybe that's where the term *"Gone Screwy",* or *"Screwed Up"* came from.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I usually get along with most screws. I think you guys just don't know how to screw.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

The star screws are vastly superior to Phillips for sure. I haven't seen any square drive screws here, but I haven't looked for them either.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I just finished screwing together a cabinet…....probably about 20-25 Philips head screws. I didn't have a single screw give me trouble. I guess I don't get it.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*+1 Alaskaguy!*

I don't like slotted but Philips work fine for me!


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

Where the better screw heads shine is when you are in a tight spot, like working on a boat. You can drive a screw where only one arm can enter the space. There exist screwdrivers with split end that will wedge a flat screw so it holds to the driver by itself, there are magnetized drivers also but they dont work with bronze, brass and most stainless found on boats.


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

Just got my free demo kit (as mentioned in a post above) from FastApp/ScrewOutfitters.com.

Their self drilling wood screws are awesome! I screwed all the way through a piece of 4/4 hard maple about 3/8 of an inch from the end of the board…no splitting at all! No pilot hole needed. Went right in and didn't split!

I'm sold…now I just have to decide on philips or square head. They sell both. I highly recommend you send off for their free sample kit.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

One point that gets overlooked is that the old conventional slotted head screws were meant to be driven into a piloted hole. Those combination pilot bits have a tapered point for the threaded section, a slightly larger diameter for the unthreaded shank, and a chamfered upper portion to accommodate a flat-head screw. Slotted screws are not really compatible with power tools.

These days, of course, most people need a more positive grip, be it star-point or square drive, because they are in a hurry to power-drive their screws into unpiloted holes. * I get it !* But when working on a artisan-quality piece of furniture, or restoring a worthy antique, spinning in a slotted tapered brass wood screw with a bit brace or screwdriver into a properly piloted hole is almost a religious experience.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*poopiekat*, I understand your point about the "religious experience" when restoring a piece with slotted screws. I once restored an old desk and saved all of the old slotted screws for later re-installation. It was worth it!

As far as new projects go I still pilot drill for screws, notice I did not say *pre-drill* which to me is an over used term!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, *oldnovice*! 
I've drawn flak for defending the old flat-head slotted screws in other threads here. It really is a different discipline, and requires an old skill set, and of course some proper hand tooling to get it done right. Hey, I use power drive all the time, mostly for fixtures and other perfunctory tasks where appearance is not paramount. I'm beginning to despair now, my sources of those old brass screws are slowly disappearing. Heck, even Home Depot Canada stopped offering brass slotted flat-heads about 2008 or so.


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## DLK (Nov 26, 2014)

> Hate phillips, love only slotted screws in furniture making.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I agree with Smitty.


> Slotted screws work a lot better with a sharpened screwdriver tip that fits perfectly in the slot, and even better if the screwdriver has a slight hollow grind so that the driver bites at the bottom of the slot. The fact that slotted screws work so much better with a sharpened well fitting driver has been mostly lost to history. Probably Phillips fault, so another demerit there.
> 
> - Tim


My understanding is you turn a hook on the blade tip much like you do with a card scraper. The hook gives it the bite.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

For the record, I never said I was opposed to slotted screws. They do have their place. (as do Phillips, which in my mind is "somewhere else")


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*poopiekat*, my local hardware store, Orchard Supply Hardware, just revamped their screw section which had been very poor since they moved to their new store so the verdict on them is still out.

My source for good hardwood, almost any woodworking hardware, and tools closed their doors after 110 years in operation and they were my source for Fastap screws, my favorite for new work.

I rarely buy screws from the big box stores because I have way too many of them snap and create extra work or a damaged project.

Now, if time and planning permits, I order from the Bolt Depot as they have a very good selection of almost any screw in most any material that I may need. It comes down to a shipping versus cost of gas!


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## Gentile (Jun 3, 2013)

I've got a drawer full of used slotted screws. I use them when restoring/repairing antique furniture. Several times I've seen drywall screws used in old stuff,(cringe)...


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Now what would be wrong with a good ol copper nail I ask !


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Hard to install in a remote spot with one hand. You can do that with a Robertson.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

oldnovice that website Bolt Depot is very interesting!

In the process of browsing it, I noticed "Sex Bolts & Mating Screws" ... I had to see what that was all about… 
I saw some of those Special Bolt/Screw sets that I had seen here n there over the years… BUT, never knew what their NAME was! Amazing website… I got another lesson about the birds & the bees!  

Thank you… Very good site..

Although, I noticed that they didn't have any Square Drive Screws… my favorite type…


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

I was wondering what a Robertson Screw was… what kind of Drive was it?

I Googled it… and found Robertson Screws... What I have been calling just plain ole *Square Drive screws*! 

YES! They are easier to use than a nail… copper nail…  Only one hand required!


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Screws? Who uses screws on fine furniture? Glue. One personal test: how many things can I make without metal fasteners?

M


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Screws? Who uses screws on fine furniture? Glue. One personal test: how many things can I make without metal fasteners?
> 
> M
> 
> - MadMark


Sam Maloof and many other famous accomplished furinture makers use/used screw in their furniture. That's who.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I don't remember mentioning fine furniture. 
All I was implying was that I couldn't think of a single thing that I liked about Phillips screws.
..... and I still can't although I am very happy for those of you who can.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I don t remember mentioning fine furniture.
> All I was implying was that I couldn t think of a single thing that I liked about Phillips screws.
> ..... and I still can t although I am very happy for those of you who can.
> 
> - shipwright


You didn't but hey something these threads take on a life of their own.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

How about if I see if I can if I borrow lightweightladylefty's electric hammer to fit my copper nails in using one hand










Hello Joe, years ago when I was in the ARMY a lot of their Training Doctrine Books were held together by Chicago screws. I had a couple of spare sets in my desk but they never reproduced and made more.


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