# trying to steal my sweat



## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

I just wanted to write concerning the ever popular practice of scamming.. I am so tired of listing my hard earned craft on whatever site you chose and being bombarded by people trying to steal it from me. At least half of the replies that I receive from these sites are people trying to scam me out of my hard work.. 
I am so sick of it, I am ready to only build for me and my family, I put in a hundred hours or so on a nice piece of furniture and somebody wants to get it for nothing.. I am so frustrated by this, I just don't know what to do.. so I am blowing off steam here…
Just had a fellow who I worked with for almost a week, trying to insure that it was for real. try to rip me off via 
PayPal.. just when I thought that that was one place that you could trust.. but NO.. 
Now I am not saying that paypal had anything to do with it, but I thought if you did your money exchange via paypal that your would be safe.. that is not the case.. 
Paypal did inform me that the message that was sent to me under their heading was not from them, and they helped me put the kabosh on the whole deal.. 
So I guess what I want to say is Be Careful.. they can get you a hundred ways to Sunday.. 
SO I guess I will ask you all, how do you do your business? what method do you use to insure that your being dealt with on the up and up?,,, you have to list your stuff to sell it, but man this stinks.. So hey fellow Jocks whats the best way to do business,, other than face to face of course… thanks.. Papa


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## Oldtool (May 27, 2012)

Wow, you seem really steamed. Hope you didn't loose anything on this venture. 
I haven't sold any of my work, but if I did, I would only build for a client with the understanding up front that they pay 25% up front to order a piece ( this to show they really want the build and cover materials), and the remaining 75% plus shipping due at time of shipping. No final payment, no shipment. This is the only way you can protect yourself.
I checked a few sites for professionals, and this is what they seem to do.
Hope this helps.


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

this was my blanket chest that I just finished, I built it, because I wanted to, no one had ordered it. Sort of like spec building houses I guess.. thought that I would be able to sell it pretty easy,, I think it turned out really well.. so anyway.. from now on.. only what they order and pay for.. lesson learned I guess.. I still have a really nice 1785 blanket chest…haha PaPA


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## stonedlion (Jan 12, 2011)

Ten years ago I had a marine electronics business online, selling VHF radio's, Antenna's, GPS, Fish Finder's etc. I did NOT accept PayPal, credit cards only.

Reading the failed transaction logs from the credit card processor was a real eye opener. For every legitimate transaction there were dozens of failed attempts, meaning the processor rejected them for a variety of reasons, but it boiled down to someone was trying to rip me off and was stopped.

The horror stories about PayPal are legion. I would stay away from it.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Ya gotta watch the address bar! There will be a difference from the legitimate site's address. In the last couple of months I have had at least 3 or 4 emails telling me my bank account or CC has been compromised. The email address will be close to the deal deal, but always a discrepancy, if only a letter or 2 out of place. Same with the address in the link to send you info so they can get the info to commit fraud.


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## Oldtool (May 27, 2012)

Papa, I saw the final blanket chest photos, looks nice. Good work, real impressive. I'm sure you'll find a buyer. Try to sell local at craft fairs maybe. You might try to see if a craft store in your neck of the woods that has booths by many craftsmen (craftspeople ?) will sell on consignment. Heck, being up in historic country, there are probably tons of tourists looking for quality reproduction furniture, just got to figure out how to get in front of them.
Other that that, I'm out of ideas.
Good luck.


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## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

I know you said other than face to face, but cash in hand is the only certain way. People can always try a charge-back on their credit cards if they are really trying to rip you off. I guess even with cash you have to check for counterfeit bills. What a crazy world we live in…


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

I take Paypal and have never had a problem (so far). I have had those emails like Topo said but you can check with Paypal to see if it is really from them. 
Now this was a bit tongue in cheek but this is what I posted on Etsy for payments -

Payment
#1 Pay Pal - accepts your credit cards; even if you do not have an account with them. 
#2 Money Order (Preferably USPS Money Orders)
#3 Personal or Company Checks (Product will not be shipped untill check passes bank)
#4 Gold, Silver and Gemstones
#5 Barter might be aranged
#6 Cash is nice only if you are standing next to me!

Payments should be made within a timely manner. Like let's say within 5 days. And please keep in contact about your payment.

Haven't had any gold silver or gemstones but the rest works.

I don't know how many times you have tried selling with Paypal but getting bit is kind of a turn off.

MIKE


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Papa, your Dilemma keeps a lot of people from working for themselves. I was self employed for almost 20 years. Even face to face you needed to be on your toes. Its amazing to me, the people that can look you right in the eye, and tell an obvious outright lie. I've worked with people who actually didn't know how to tell the truth.

Trying to sell, and get paid, is what keeps most of my restored planes hanging on my shop wall. Ebay and paypal are ok, if you don't mind 20% of your profit taken right off the top.

For now, I'll just let them hang for me to enjoy.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Don, it's not lost profit if you factor it in with your cost.
It goes the same for offering "free shipping" but factoring that cost in. That entices a lot of customers, btw.


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

I don't know, maybe I am just old fashioned. I was raised to believe that if you worked hard, were nice to people, were honest, reliable and trustworthy, that you could make an honest living and support your family.
Its sad to say that this is not the case anymore.. instead its just an open door for someone to take advantage of you..The old saying is "nice guys finish last". the real shame is that its true… I am tired of finishing last, I think that I will become a real S.O.B., I know that I will have lots of company and maybe I can rip a few people off.. 
Just not having a great day.. sorry folks…just pissed off I guess….
May your shavings be light, your irons sharp, and your feet covered in sawdust.. Papa


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Cash, checks, postal M/O and CC. Checks require a hold on the merchandise until my banks notifies that they have cleared the purchaser's bank. Can be 6 weeks.
15 years ago, I had a problem with PayPal….probably my slovenly book keeping…but I could never get it resolved. Quit using them.


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Papa, I'm sorry this happened and has gotten under you skin. I can't fully sympathize because I've not detected anyone trying to rip me off. I would probably feel the same way though, if they did try. I have not yet sold anything on the Internet either so I'm not fully prepared to deal with the fraudulent attempts. I agree that cash or MO is the most fool proof. A check adds a lot of time to the process, though I might spend some time on procurement, as in finding the best prices and where to get things. A fraudulent check is prosecutable at minimal expense and usually expenses covered at end.
I charge 50% up front and nothing happens until l receive that in hand (bank). The rest is labor and profit, mostly labor.  That steep up front discourages even some legit customers, but I'm not going to let myself get desperate. When I pay cash for something, I ask them if they are still taking these bad govt checks. They just smile and hand me change.
The memory will remain, but moving on with the wisdom of hindsight is good and proper. Don't drag your chin too far, it just gets more sore. And the wound leads to an infection called "furniture disease". That's where your chest falls into your drawers!
BTW, you can stick your chest out over that chest! It's beautiful.
Dan


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

I refuse to use PayPal!
I have a good friend who makes somewhat of a living on eBay, and he is about done with it. Not because of eBay, but PayPal. He sold an item to a fellow in the next state over. The guy complained that it was not what he thought, (even though this seller has over 1000 100% ratings), so he said he would refund the buyer's money via PayPal. Did he get back his item? No, he got a box of rocks. He had the guy's address here in the South, so he e-mailed him and said if the money was not back into the PayPal account in 2 hours he was getting back into his truck, guns onboard, and pay the buyer a visit. 
The money was back into his account in an hour, but the turmoil and ulcers are just ridiculous. 
PayPal is geared to protect the BUYER, not the seller. 
When I sold off my wife's collection fo Barbie dolls, someone hacked into my account through PayPal and emptied it, and they did a lot of others. PayPal denied it even happened. That's when I closed my PayPal account.

I take checks, money orders, bank cheques, and the deposits of about 20-25% are NON-REFUNDABLE. Shipment is made when the final check arrives and is deposited. If you want a product from me, you've had the chance to talk to me, talk to others who own my stuff. So I make sure you are committed. Period. It's a tough old world, and I don't like losing. I do the best I can to provide the top guitar I can, often spending many extra hours to make sure it is just right. Last thing I need is some person trying to take advantage.


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

thanks Dan, just blowing steam… I just don't like dishonest people or dealings.. I try to go above and beyond to insure that I treat people with honesty and respect, would just like the same in return… I would rather take it out back and burn it then lose it to someone trying to rip me off.. would make one heck of a fire.. haha… Papa


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

Hey Don, I am still trying to figure a way to take one of those #8's off your hands… if I can find a legitimate buyer for my chest, that's one of the first things I am going to do.. I love your work, those planes are first rate once you do that voodoo that you do so well.. Or so the saying goes.. Blazing saddles I think.. thanks for the kind words.. Papa


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

oldtool, checked one of the local consignment stores, he said he only wanted 50% for selling it.. I told him I wasn't interested.. I know that most charge 33% but 50 seemed like he was trying to make the most for my sweat and labor,,, not gonna happen… will keep looking.. someone honest will eventually see my post and buy my chest.. Just gonna wait it out.. Papa


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

If ya want me to rally up the boys we can go find this guy


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## cjwillie (Sep 6, 2011)

I am very selective about what jobs I take and more so about WHO I work for. I deal in person and in CASH. Customer pays for materials up front and pays balance when delivered. So far, so good! I do this to support my woodworking and for the enjoyment not so much for the money.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

*chrisstef* A few good men tried that in Beaverhead County MT in the 1860s. It turned out to be a very successful program. They introduced civilization which has lasted to this day ;-)


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I do not trust electronic access to any account with money n it. I use a empty account for Pay pal and to receive direct deposits. Transfer to another account with in a day or two. The primary reason i never use debit and always credit card is limited liability on my end for fraud.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Look into setting up a merchants account, so you can process CC transactions yourself….

It may not cost as much as you might think.

Either way…. don't be discouraged.

Good guys only suffer for a short while as pilgrims in this sin sick world… But every cup of water (or truthfull statement) given in the Lord's name will be rewarded on the other side. That's for SURE!


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## Oldtool (May 27, 2012)

Papa,

Have you tried the local "Craig's List"? I just sold a car rather quickly through Craigslist Pittsburgh, and got cash at the time of title transfer. Also, if your local supermarket is like the chain we have here, there is a Community Bulletin Board, where you can stick up a photo with text about the sale.
If I think of anything else, I'll post.
Re: the consignment, did they ask you what you wanted so they could tack on their cut for selling?, or did they expect to sell for what you are asking and expect half of that amount? Should be the first scenario.
Good luck.


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

Oldtool, this whole process started from an add I placed on my local craigslist… once the gentleman at the consignment shop said 50% I kind of tuned him out.. just wasn't listening much after that..the two pieces I brought with me were $600.00 and $800.00 my price, and don't think they would have sold if he had wanted to add another 50% on top of that, and I aint willing to take half for them so.. that's that.. 
Just gonna have to find a way to sell em cash only to someone local.. end of story.. 
SSNVET,,,, first off, fellow Navy man here.. only I was a skimmer, or just another target.. haha… thank you for your service to our country..I am proud to call you a brother in arms… 
also thanks for the fine words that you closed with.. they shall surely reap what they sow, I just leave it in the mighty hands of our Lord and Savior… one day walking on streets paved in gold, all this will be forgotten.. plus as a bonus, I will get to see my dad again.. Praise His Holy Name… Papa


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I agree 50% seems high, but my wife works in a shop that sells a lot of wood working stuff and the owner marks everything up 200% or more and somehow the stuff sells. it's not even quality stuff so it may be worth a try. Your chest would easily sell for $1600.


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

Oldtool, this whole process started from an add I placed on my local craigslist… once the gentleman at the consignment shop said 50% I kind of tuned him out.. just wasn't listening much after that..the two pieces I brought with me were $600.00 and $800.00 my price, and don't think they would have sold if he had wanted to add another 50% on top of that, and I aint willing to take half for them so.. that's that.. 
Just gonna have to find a way to sell em cash only to someone local.. end of story.. 
SSNVET,,,, first off, fellow Navy man here.. only I was a skimmer, or just another target.. haha… thank you for your service to our country..I am proud to call you a brother in arms… 
also thanks for the fine words that you closed with.. they shall surely reap what they sow, I just leave it in the mighty hands of our Lord and Savior… one day walking on streets paved in gold, all this will be forgotten.. plus as a bonus, I will get to see my dad again.. Praise His Holy Name… Papa


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

I guess you are quickly discovering that there are not many good options for selling your work without the risks and con artists. 
One option is to try a few art/craft shows. I started doing them a few years ago and was not overly excited at first prior to doing them…but from the very first show I proved my hesitations wrong and had alot of fun and made money, got alot of exposure, gave out cards and started a good repeat and referral business. I have so much fun talking to people at the shows and it gives me the opportunity to meet and interact with customers.

I use a credit card reader that has no monthlt costs other than 2.7% fee only when I use it and it plugs in to either my smart phone or ipad. Other than that it is cash only.
My wife and I always make a semi-vacation out of the out of town shows we do by driving there days early and taking in the sights along the way.
We have only done about 5-6 shows each of the past couple of years…but I am retired and do not need to do it to pay bills…I do it because of my passion for what I do.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Woodworker59, you are not advertising to the people who are your target audience. When I and others go to Craigslist, we are looking for a bargain. Look at the threads here about buying or getting a deal on Cragslist.

You need to find out where the people are who can afford your products. Then advertise to them through whatever means you can. Making a product is the easiest part of selling. Finding the p[roper customer and selling them on the product is the hardest part. With my products, I do not advertise on Craigslist nor within a 10 mile radius of where my shop is. My best customers on the other side of town and I reach out to them through newspaper ads (small ones during 4th qtr), art shows in the area, doing email newsletters, etc.

It takes alot of tools to make a sale.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Papa, ya know there a furniture consignment shop just down the road from me. The market in the central part of the state may yield better results than up in the quiet corner. I could swing in on my way home from work and see what thier fees are if you are interested. Ive seen your work and id be real surprised if it didnt sell, top notch stuff you got.


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