# Order of steps - glue or route 1st



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

When making a frame do you typically route all of the edges first or do you glue up the frame first? For example on this frame I chamfered all of the edges first and then did my glue up.










Obviously the inner edge needs to be completed before glue up so this question is focused on the outside of the frame. Trying to think through any downfalls of routing after the glue-up.


----------



## rounder (Aug 23, 2012)

I route before glue up in case there 
is any damage.
nice frame, looks like you got some 
good tight joints ,


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

That has been my approach, but working on a frame this weekend got me thinking that if I routed the outside after glue up I could use routing to cleanup any glue on the edges. The "edge glue" always seems to take a lot of time to deal with after pulling out of the bracket I use (as the pic shows - no way to clean up until glue is dry).



> I route before glue up in case there
> is any damage.
> nice frame, looks like you got some
> good tight joints ,
> ...


----------



## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

I cut the inside rabbet for the picture and glass, glue it up, sand to make sure all edges are flush and rout the outside perimeter….in that order. I use that exact same fixture and I love it for frames.

cheers, Jim


----------



## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Route all edges

Sand all edges

Wash coat of Shellac

Glue and clamp or use rubber bands if it's a small perimeter.


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Think I'll try changing up my process order. The assembly unit IS great as long as the frames aren't too small. Then I resort to tape.


> I cut the inside rabbet for the picture and glass, glue it up, sand to make sure all edges are flush and rout the outside perimeter….in that order. I use that exact same fixture and I love it for frames.
> 
> cheers, Jim
> 
> - Jim Jakosh





> Route all edges
> 
> Sand all edges
> 
> ...


I have tried using shellac on a few projects. What type do you use? I only used the rattle can type but expect that might not be the best. Thanks for sharing the rubber band idea - haven't tried that.


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

When building raised panel doors, I run the outside edge through the shaper after glueup, starting on end grain. Any tearout or chipping is removed when shaping the edge grain.


----------



## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Some folks make their own shellac of which I haven't done yet. A shellac with no wax in it works well for me.


----------



## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

Just a note, if you buy that Shellac, store the can in a plastic coffee container or something like that that it will fit in. I had the Shellac eat a hole through a can I had on a shelf above my Rigid drum/belt sander… Took me two days to get the sander cleaned and working again…..... Haven't repaired the wall that it ran down yet.

I route all before gluing. I would be afraid I would some how damage the outside corners if I routed after gluing.

I have a home built frame gluing clamp fashioned after the one pictured above. It work great, but takes me a long time to set it up trying to figure out where to position the stops on the rails….Is there secret to determining that other than trial and error?


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Was that shellac from the last century? I have cans for several years with no problems.


----------



## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Might be too late for this one but I would rout before even before you cut the miters. You could get some chipout on the end so if your route the entire piece before cutting, any blowout will be removed at that time.


----------



## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

> Was that shellac from the last century? I have cans for several years with no problems.
> 
> - ibewjon


The can was about a year old…. After it happen I read where it can happen so as a precaution, I store mine is a coffee ground container…Folgers


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I cut the inside rabbet for the picture and glass, glue it up, sand to make sure all edges are flush and rout the outside perimeter….in that order. I use that exact same fixture and I love it for frames.
> 
> cheers, Jim
> 
> - Jim Jakosh


Different frame, same approach.

Only way I know without taking a LOT of time tapping out corners with a chisel that you make that rabbet in the frame for all the guts to load into. Route that inner profile first on anything that you plan to close together to shut out the corner from a cutter to get into it. Outer profiles are often easier after the fact, without a profile, definitly easier to clamp a square face. If clamping isn't an issue, it's still just a wash.


----------



## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

ive always routered the material first then the miters then glue up.


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Had not thought to router all profiles first. So many ways to approach the same project.

Interesting situation with the shellac. Storage consideration for sure.

Thanks for all the tips. I like making frames so may just try a couple new methods and see which work best for me.


----------



## mtnwalton (Aug 4, 2015)

Do you have a link for that fixture? or name? thanks


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Do you have a link for that fixture? or name? thanks
> 
> - mtnwalton


This is the Grizzly clamp 25 bux, plus shipping. Rockler has it for 40 bux, maybe free shipping. A lot of people remove that center bolt, and just use a few squeeze clamps to pull it together. Kinda looks like that is what is done in that pic above.










I've used the one like this They can be awesome if you take some time to make them well. They can be scraps, and an hour or so. Depends if you want to use a wallet, or the shop pretty much. That thread was favorited 250 times, and showed just 46 comments. So a lot of folks wanted to build that. If drilled out the same, and all of the corner holders, and cross pieces are all the same, it can be made smaller, or larger than here, and using a single squeeze clamp can exert a lot of pressure to hold your corners tight. Works the same as the buy it jig, just cheaper to own.


----------



## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

> Do you have a link for that fixture? or name? thanks
> 
> - mtnwalton
> 
> ...


Mine is very similar, but not as nicely built. I really just used scraps of various woods were used. It works well enough that I may rebuild one of these days. Been thinking of making slots in the rails instead of holes so you could slid the corner clamp pieces. Make it faster to adjust,,, maybe.


----------



## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Hey BB, good to see those frames!

My process for frames is to route the outer profile last. The outer profile can be done just as easily before or after so I like to cut and miter the parts while they have wide, square edges. Clamping can also easier depending on what method you use. If doing splines, I'll make the parts a bit over-width so I can add the splines then trim up the assembled frame on the TS to flush up and clean away any tearout. The profile is applied after all the major sanding, especially if the miter joints are not perfectly flush and require a pass through the drum sander. Doing the profile last at this point lets me keep the profile detail crisp since the sanding is all finished. I will use a push block behind the first pass on the router table to prevent any chip out at the cut exit. I then rotate the frame 1/4 turn clockwise for each remaining pass (no push block required as it can't have chip out at this point).

For the inside profile, usually used for glass, artwork, and back panel, I will most ofter do that before gluing up the frame but after mitering the parts. The obvious advantage is it goes easily on the router table or table saw if a simple rabbet is needed. No start or stop blocks, just end-to-end cuts. Having the rabbet cut before mitering can sometimes result in tearout since the rabbet surfaces are not supported/backed during the cross cuts. It is also nice to get the square corners when assembly is complete. The same issues as reasons for doing the outside profile last can also arise so occasionally I'll do the inside rabbeting last. Advantage is with a router and guide template I can get a consistently dead flat surface for the glass around the entire frame. Disadvantage is needing to chisel square the corners.

Anyway, just my $0.02 8^)


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

splintergroup - thanks for all the info. I have yet to try splines in my frames (to do list). Interesting to consider all the various pros and cons related to order of operations. I use a backer board when cutting the miters so hopefully could avoid damage to the board if I have the rabbet (for the glass) already cut. Thinking I may try rabbet first, then miter, then inside profile, then glue up, then outside profile and keyhole slot. Wew - a simple frame has so many steps!


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

I bought mine a long time ago from Rockler when it was on sale (looks like Grizzly has the same unit based on the link above - on sale). Took me a while to figure it out. I don't use the bolt but rather grab a clamp or two.

https://www.rockler.com/frame-clamp-kit



> Do you have a link for that fixture? or name? thanks
> 
> - mtnwalton


----------



## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

> Was that shellac from the last century? I have cans for several years with no problems.
> 
> - ibewjon


I've never heard of this occurring.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I would router first, then miter, then glue. Reason; if you make a mistake routering after glue up, you may have ruined the whole frame. Also, you have to square the inside corners. That and using the router will stress the glued miter joint, which isn't all that strong a joint to begin with (unless reinforced with a spline).


----------



## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

For me, it always depends of if I need straight inside corners or it doesn't matter. If round is okay, then I always assembled and went for it.

Of course, going from light to full depths, and using sharp bits went a long ways to determining if I got splinters or not (used a lot of fir and cedar, in my day).

For the glass, I like making projectiles on the table saw (inside cuts using a push shoe), rather than using the router, but I've done that many a time too.


----------

