# Designing My New Shop-Is a Garage Door Necessary?



## gerrym526 (Dec 22, 2007)

Guys,

I recently retired to Northern Idaho and just finished building a new house. My new woodworking shop is planned for 2017 and is in the design phase. Building a house showed me that materials cost is rising fast (e.g. drywall increased 6% just this year)-so staying in a tight budget is important.

Here's the question-is a garage door a necessary feature on a shop building (now planning for about 800 sq ft.)?

My design process always starts with how I would use a space or feature. Started with considering a garage door to open into a storage space connected to the shop, and using heat from the shop to keep it warm.
Major issue I'm running into is that unless I buy a very expensive garage door with insulation, all my heat will leave the building quickly in the winter. (heater will be a propane ceiling unit with enclosed combustion chamber to eliminate fire/explosion danger).

I build furniture and cabinetry as a serious amateur woodworker, and even the largest pieces would fit through a double steel entry door (i.e. two doors connected in the center) vs. a garage door. Same would apply for bringing in lumber and sheet goods-they'd fit through double doors.

And, the insulated steel or fiberglass double doors cost less than a garage door with opener.

Anybody here think I'm missing an advantage that a garage door would add to the shop?

Appreciate your input.

Thanks for the help.
Gerry


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

I have used a similar double door set up, or French Door as some have called it, entry to the shop for many years.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

One of the only non-obvious and compelling reasons that I can think of would be something like Bob's project to bring in natural light and warmth, even on some cold days - http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93894

This would require the door facing the right direction and having exposure to the sun, of course.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

I built a stand alone shop approx. 600 sq/ft here in Northern Alberta and in hindsight would of went with a smaller garage door, maybe 10ft. by 8 ft. instead of 16 ft. wide. Big door is nice in good weather and to bring in equipment and supplies but the lost wall space is a real negative. The aspect of resale value in the future was the factor to put in full size garage doors. When it is time to sell shop can be marketed as garage or shop! More windows is also something to consider for natural light.
I went with small electric boiler and in floor heating to address fire hazards, another hindsight area where a wood floor would've be real nice on the feet/legs not to mention the ability to run ducting/power under the floor.
Oh well maybe the next workshop?


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I have double doors on the back of my garage and they are really nice. I would go with the double doors as they are better insulated and seal tighter.


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## mrbob (Nov 3, 2016)

If you are worried about resale value. When building you could put the header in for a garage door, then if you or anyone else wanted to put in a garage door, it would not take too much to open up the space for it and since the header is already in place, easy peacy.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Gerry, mrbob's idea sounds pretty darn good to me. I know from experience that in the winter an over head seems like a pain, but that summer time air flow and light are sure nice. I don't live all that far from you so I'm familiar with your weather. I do envy you living up there and sure wish I could relocate to that area.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

In reality you do not need a larger door. Anything you build will have to go into another person house ? They only have 36" front door !
Carrying things in might be easier.
If you need to heat the building French Doors work fine. I live in Canada, we have COLD winters. My french doors worked very well.
As someone mentioned, frame your doorway for garage door for later if you want.
Just my thoughts.


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## mrbob (Nov 3, 2016)

"In reality you do not need a larger door. Anything you build will have to go into another person house ? They only have 36" front door !" 
Oh ya, did you ever hear of a Patio Door?


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

One good use for a garage door is for easy unloading of lumber. I have my primary lumber rack in front of one so when the door is open, the rack is accessible from outside. In my case I load it with a forklift but it could also be loaded manually from a pickup parked nearby.

The rack is also accessible from the inside so I can grab my boards easily and get right to work.


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## klassenl (Feb 13, 2011)

When you say "expensive" what does that mean. I spent 600 per door in my new garage (9 wide and 8 tall) and that was a good price. Having lived and worked in a climate that goes from 100 above to 30 below I have concluded that insulation is worth having even if it is expensive.


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## Thuzmund (Dec 9, 2013)

Lumber and any enormous tool that could be backed into the workshop would be outstanding. Lack of wall space is another real issue but a simple shelf or mobile system (like wheels or pegboard screwed to two tall legs) could address part of this "con" factor.

But if I were making the decision, I would make a conservative estimate for energy loss (knowing that it should only increase over time as the building will only grow more drafty). Something like "I expect this space to cost 15% more than a regular door space." Then I would project that estimate over the years of ownership I expected, including some fiddling to reflect energy costs that should only rise. Maybe after 15 years I it is 25% inefficient, so for my math I'll call it 20% for 15 years. These percentages are a total guess, btw.

I would add that figure against extra cost of installation.

I would then compare that sum against potential $$$ from resale value to my home.

Then I would know how much the convenience is worth to me.

I did this when shopping for cars, since I was naturally inclined to be a good citizen and moneysaver by buying an efficient 4 cyl import or even a hybrid. But when I actually ran the numbers to see how much $$ I saved, I was surprised to find out that in my case, I wouldn't actually be saving any money at all. So instead of that Honda Fit or Toyota Prius I bought a Ford Taurus in great condition with a 6cyl engine. Loved that car. Now my mileage to work has changed and these days I have something smaller (a Ford Focus).

One person with experience heating garage spaces could share their heating costs, heating methods, and winter temperatures, and one person with experience heating insulated door spaces could share similar info. That would be enough to start spitballing the real cost and put that question out of the way as you continue to make the decision.


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## LFD3908 (May 16, 2012)

Finished a 30×50 building with one half dedicated to my shop. 2×6 framing with metal siding . Sprayed 1 inch of foam on the whole building and on the shop finished off with 6 inch fiberglass batts in the walls.one 36 inch man door entering from the garage side. 36 inch man door to enter the garage side. I do have garage doors also. Shop ceiling blown in insulation to an r- value of about 50+. Heated with a ceiling mount 220 electric heater. A 10,000 but widow unit keeps it cool in the summer. I do heat and cool 100 percent of time. Only two widows facing east. Those should have been larger to accommodate a larger a/c unit. Thankfully it works fine.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Having a door allows easier lumber delivery and simplre large project removal.
That being said, it doesn't have to be an overhead door, it could be a swinging door or doors, made out of wood!


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

A garage door is NOT a necessity or even desirable. Double doors however are a necessity. Or nearly so. In fact, I actually removed my garage door, on the garage bay I converted to a shop, and replaced it with a set of large double doors. Quality doors will seal and be insulated well.

In may case, I rarely have to open the second door, but when you need to, there is no alternative.


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## RandyinFlorida (Sep 27, 2012)

+1 for what mrbob said. Put in the header. Then down the line it would be easy to install garage doors.


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## WelshRabbet (Nov 15, 2009)

After nearly 25 years in a 2-car garage at my home in the SF Bay Area, where I had nearly perfect weather all the time, I've moved my shop to a 30' x 50' steel barn building in the Piedmont of North Carolina. While I have more space than I ever dreamed of, I now bake and sweat in the summer or freeze in the winter. The new shop has two large traditional 10' x10' sets of sliding barn doors-one set at each end of the barn. The way the sliding doors fit (i.e., with at least a 1-2" gap all around the doors) they might as well not even be there. It occurred to me "do I really need those doors?" Until I can deal with those doors, trying to insulate the barn or install any sort of HVAC is futile. For those of you with sliding barn doors, what do you do about them to afford better insulation? Since I'm stuck with those two 10' x 10' openings, I thought the quickest way might be to add on the inside of the sliding door openings 10' x10' roll-up doors like a lot of mini-storage units have, but I'm not sure they will do much for helping me climate control my shop. Any suggestions are most welcomed. ~Donna (WelshRabbit)


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

This is an older thread.

But to answer your question, you're going to be best off getting rid of the doors. If the look of them is important to you, make them fake doors that don't actually open and just have framing and insulation behind them. Then cut a new opening for a single or double exterior door. Then insulate the building and install the most efficient HVAC system you can afford.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Build a separation in the building. About 30×30 for the actual shop with insulated walls and lower ceiling would be easier to climate control. Leave the other area for storage of wood and such. Leave the doors as is. Have French doors into the shop. Use one for normal entry and open second door for large items.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

For a hobbiest, I would say no.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

It's an old thread Loren.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

yah, figured that. after I hit return.

I feel like an idiot everytime I don't notice.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> Build a separation in the building. About 30×30 for the actual shop with insulated walls and lower ceiling would be easier to climate control. Leave the other area for storage of wood and such. Leave the doors as is. Have French doors into the shop. Use one for normal entry and open second door for large items.
> 
> - firefighterontheside


I changed my mind - this is your best bet. 30' x 50' is way, way too big for a hobbyist shop. I would go like 20×30 or 20×35, personally. Maybe a bit bigger if you have a lot of big tools.


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## WelshRabbet (Nov 15, 2009)

Sorry, folks, for resurrecting an old thread, but I didn't think it was proper etiquette to start an entirely new thread on a topic which had already received some discussion since the original question posted by GerryM was highly relevant to my question, too. Many thanks to each of you who did respond.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

> yah, figured that. after I hit return.
> 
> I feel like an idiot everytime I don t notice.
> 
> - Loren


Yeah, me too.


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## sawdustdad (Dec 23, 2015)

I built my shop as a garage for resale value. Next owner not likely to be as avid a woodworker. Plus, can drive a vehicle in to work on it if necessary. Bought top of the line R18 insulated garage doors.


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## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

WelshRabbet,

As a suggestion, posting your issue and questions as a new thread, even now, may give you more responses which could be more relevant to your circumstances. But to answer your question…

I agree with jonah; add framing behind the sliding barn doors and install whatever door makes sense to you. If possible, leaving the original barn doors in place would save some work and make it possible to restore the barn to its original opening, should that ever be required. The barn doors could be fixed open or left to slide opened and closed. Allowing the barn doors to continue functioning could reduce heat gain/loss during weather extremes. On a cold windy day, the outer barn doors could be closed and help the newly installed door behind the closed barn doors work more efficiently.

My preference would be a double French style entry door. A 72" wide opening should be large enough to move machinery and materials in and out of the shop. It would seal well against air leaks and if fiberglass rather than steel, would resist dents and dings better than a steal door. Maintenance would consist of replacing weather stripping down the road at a fairly low cost. The double entry doors would not add any structures to the ceiling in the shop and thus leave the ceiling free of obstructions. It would make routine egress to the shop as easy as opening a door and would limit the amount of conditioned air that could escape.

The double entry door contrasts with the overhead garage door. Even with a well-sealed garage door, there may be some air leakage around the perimeter. Opening and then closing the garage door, for example to enter the shop, would result a significant loss of conditioned shop air. The required ceiling mounted hardware could be an obstruction if overhead central dust collection pipe is run. An open garage door on a nice day would render the ceiling mounted lighting blocked and unnecessarily add to the electric bill. Opening and closing an overhead garage door is no fun unless an automatic garage door opener is added. The garage door opener would require a properly placed ceiling receptacle and further adds to the ceiling obstructions. At some point the springs will break and have to be replaced which adds to the about $200 to total cost of ownership of the overhead garage door. Luckily the springs last a long time, but they do finally wear out. At least one part of the overhead garage door installation is, I think, best left to the professionals. Adjusting the torsion springs can be a hazardous effort and if something goes wrong a serious injury could occur.

My guess is that at the end of the day, the cost of these two options would be about the same.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

> Sorry, folks, for resurrecting an old thread, but I didn t think it was proper etiquette to start an entirely new thread on a topic which had already received some discussion since the original question posted by GerryM was highly relevant to my question, too. Many thanks to each of you who did respond.
> 
> - WelshRabbet


Welcome to LJs!

Actually starting a new thread is better. You're question is different and most people are not going to re-read a thread to find the new question started in the middle. So what happens is the original question gets resurrected and yours will tend to get ignored. Just watch, and see what happens.

It's a pretty common thing for new members to do this. Just as you did, there seems to be a reluctance to start a new thread. But there are 10's of thousands of threads in LJs. Starting another is no big deal.

Heck, there are probably only about a dozen specific topics in LJs that get talked about on a regular basis. If we just had one thread on which table saw to buy, the darn thing would reach to the moon and back and have something like 5 billion posts in it.

If this thread goes as I suspect, where your specific question will be overlooked, then I'd start a new thread and provide a link to the old.

Also, a pet peeve of mine are threads with very generic titles like "Need help with shop". So, when you do start a new thread, I encourage you to be specific in your titles. In this case something like "How to seal barn doors" or "Keep barn doors?"

Anyway, this is no big deal either way. Happily, the LJ members seem to be pretty easy going. It's not the kind of place where you'll get flamed just for posting in the wrong area.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I replaced my garage door with swinging doors. This doors are closer to being swinging walls. Very thick, very well insulated, and weather stripped. I actually converted the garage door and reused the panels so it still looks like a garage door.










Here you can actually see the back side of the original garage door panels. There is a steel frame that these panel fit into then the wood strips were screwed to the steel and the panels. Supporting webs, insulation and then plywood (not shown).


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