# Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*I ran across this article indicating scientific research that seems to go a long ways in explaining why political speech on LJs is so contentious. IMO, this is central to my belief that politics and religion have NO place on LJs. How do you feel/think about the following research?*

Article:
*Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice*

There's no gentle way to put it: People who give in to racism and prejudice may simply be dumb, according to a new study that is bound to stir public controversy.

"Polling data and social and political science research do show that prejudice is more common in those who hold right-wing ideals that those of other political persuasions, Nosek told LiveScience."

"As suspected, low intelligence in childhood corresponded with racism in adulthood. But the factor that explained the relationship between these two variables was political: When researchers included social conservatism in the analysis, those ideologies accounted for much of the link between brains and bias."

"Earlier studies have found links between low levels of education and higher levels of prejudice, Hodson said, so studying intelligence seemed a logical next step. The researchers turned to two studies of citizens in the United Kingdom, one that has followed babies since their births in March 1958, and another that did the same for babies born in April 1970. The children in the studies had their intelligence assessed at age 10 or 11; as adults ages 30 or 33, their levels of social conservatism and racism were measured." [Life's Extremes: Democrat vs. Republican]

"In another study, this one in the United States, Hodson and Busseri compared 254 people with the same amount of education but different levels of ability in abstract reasoning. They found that what applies to racism may also apply to homophobia. People who were poorer at abstract reasoning were more likely to exhibit prejudice against gays. As in the U.K. citizens, a lack of contact with gays and more acceptance of right-wing authoritarianism explained the link." [5 Myths About Gay People Debunked]


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

One of the refreshing things about LJs is its tolerance of sometimes extreme views on different subjects. One needn't read or participate in those discussions. Political Correctness is available on other forums.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I agree with this completely…The only explanation of the fact that they continually throw around complete lies like death panels, and calling Obama a socialist, and a Muslim, and insisting he isn't an American citizen…can only be the result of ignorance, and stupidity..it certainly isn't intelligence..and lets throw in a little false patriotism, and a hefty dose of racism..


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)




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## DonnyBahama (Jun 21, 2011)

A friend of mine brought this to my attention a week or so ago - and I knew it was only a matter of time before it found its way here. I agree that intelligence level is the obvious explanation for the millions of people who are duped by the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. That said, there are many such people out there (on LJs and beyond) who are otherwise great people and who I consider to be friends - in spite of their political beliefs.

The challenge is in showing them the light - in a non-confrontational manner, bringing them around to a more enlightened viewpoint with cold, hard facts, but doing so gently, without making them feel like they're backed into a corner - and in a position where they have to aggressively defend themselves and their viewpoints. Obviously, confronting them with "you're conservative because you're stupid - here's the proof" isn't going to win friends or influence people.

But more importantly, I think we just need to reLize and accept the fact that we're not going to change their opinions. We're talking about people who will refute the incontrovertible science behind climate change. Many of them believe the universe is only thousands of years old - in spite of the proven science of carbon dating. Why would any of them acknowledge any truth in these studies? Or allow their opinions to be shaped by facts that disprove Limbaugh & Beck?

I am again reminded of a wonderful scene from Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip (a wonderful but short-lived show from the creators of The West Wing that was canceled by NBC when they caved in to complaints from conservatives)... One of the two main characters asks the other, "Why do conservatives and liberals hate each other so much?" To which the reply is given, "Conservatives hate us because they think we think they're stupid, and we hate them because we think they're stupid." I laughed when he said it, but there's a lit if truth in it.

As for whether this sort of discussion belongs on LJs, I feel strongly that it does not. First and foremost, we are all woodworkers, and if we confined our discussions to that, there'd be no hurt feelings and we'd all get along nicely.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

The study looks at *social* conservatives in the UK. Not political or fiscal conservatives in the US. Huge differences.
Ignorance breeds prejudice. Not stupidity.
Ignorance is rampant among liberals as well as conservatives. But then so is stupidity. Consequently, prejudices exist among both groups. 
Nothing new here.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow Donny, well thought out and well stated. I do not think I could deliver the message as well as you do. I'm pretty much B&W politically.

After reading the above article and the links within, it sure seems to make sense to me why the:

1. Republicans want to dismantle the Department of Education. 
AND
2. Democrats want to expand/fund the Department of Education.


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## MoPower (Feb 6, 2009)

Well Donny, the exact same thing can be said about both sides. Facts can be skewed to either side, I believe my viewpoint is more enlightened than yours. See how that works? 
Now I guess I'm just another racist conservative that spent 12 years in the military and fought in two wars to protect your arrogant enlightened viewpoint.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Isn't it amazing that a high percentage of the military are of the conservative majority. I'm not saying they are all racist but, I have seen my share. I spent 20+ years in the military and was involved in too many conflicts: 6-day,
Johannesburg, SEA, and others I care not to mention. Why is it, that liberals are the most tolerant of others? Is it because we are the result of our fore fathers, who left the old country to avoid that kind of crap? What happened to the "the other side", who also escaped that kind of crap, to become what they are today? I was also one of those others, before I saw the light. While attending a required seminar by the military (requiring us to be in civilian clothes to allow feelings to flow), the words got very heated on the subject of race. A young African American said something I will remember the rest of my life, "All I get to do is watch through the window, from the sidewalk, into the room, while all the white guys get what they want". An older white guy jumped up and
yelled, "I am Colonel …................ and no n….......... talks to me like that, and as far as I'm concerned, you and your kind can stand out on the sidewalk until hell freezes over"! That, I will never forget. At that very moment, my life changed. To the better? I believe so. I have worked very hard to leave my ugly conservative racist attitude in the past. To this day, every time I see / hear negative words about our present President, I am reminded of that Colonel so many years ago - WHAT AN ASSHOLE! The same feelings go out to any conservative
numbnut, numerous names come to mind not repeated here, whose attitude is the same.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Racism exists in all walks of life it's not about white hating black you see it in all comunities.Untill we face up and admit we are all guilty or at least have been guilty to a lesser or greater extent and make peace with ourselves about it within our own hearts and psyche,we will never feel completely at peace.Prejudice is even worse we are all guilty.I feel until we admit it and realise our own failings we cannot move forward.I Alistair Hosie have been racist prejudice and am trying to better educate myself with help of my family to move on. I get annoyed even angry when waves of foreigners move into this country and get straight onto the benefits system without ever having paid into it .Education, healthcare, fee dentistry,some of them recieving thousands per week in housing benefits as they need large houses to take them all.This makes me racist Asians coming here and have large families here all paid for by us some with three or more wives and 27 or more children between them all paid for getting thousands every week from social security . If you study the caste system in India etc we see prejudice caused by ignorance.I believe we will never be at peace until we realise these failings within ourselves and strive to be better neighbours and brothers and sisters to all mankind. I can only try some days I slip back when I read about this kind of thing here in the U.K then I make racist rants this is hard for me I have been brought up watching my mother and father struggle to care for us on meagre wages .Alistair


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

what rubish is this 
People who were poorer at abstract reasoning were more likely to exhibit prejudice against ….bla bla bla etc etc etc …..........
what kind of people with just one gram of intelligence can come up with
such crap …............just becourse á brain is more logical and linair in its way of thinking isn´t the same as being without iQ and picking only 254 people to make the statement from just show stupidity 
of how people behind the statement is , and show the agenda they have to became famerous at all cost
nomatter how many they hurt on the way to the top

Dennis


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

rosebudjim SAID: "Isn't it amazing that a high percentage of the military are of the conservative majority."

I tend to believe it is the conservatives that ATTEMPT to take all credit for military service as the be all end all of what makes their manhood/personhood. I am a flaming liberal that served 4 years during Vietnam, though I don't jump at every friggin' opportunity to wave it front of everyone else's face.

Serving in the military has its purpose, but claiming it as ones main purpose in life is misdirected if not dangerous. I served, managed to not be harmed, and the VA paid for two out of three of my college degrees. IMO, the military allowed me to move from point "A" to point "B" and get on with my OWN life without becoming just another cog in a war machine being told when to 'chit, 'chower, and 'chave on demand. In THAT sense, I see why so many conservative types are attracted to that dictated lifestyle. Pretty much adds credence to the above research, IMO.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Mike: I also don't wave my military service in front of anybody's face. IF they ask, I will hesitate to say so, NOT before. I joined to see the world, and brother did I! And won't do it again for no amount of money. But, I think your short stay in there did not allow you to see the true amount of conservative attitudes that abounded through out. And, I do not claim my serving was a main purpose, it just happened. My 3 tours in SEA gave me the "right" to 100% of medical care from the VA. I sure didn't enlist just to achieve that for the rest of my life. I also accepted the 3 c's to do all that. BUT, I was never in the majority like all those "others", and was berated for it many times. I admit, it took me a number of naive years to realize I was not a member of that elite group of conservative mongers. So I slid into the background, did my job until 20, and parted without fan fare.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

focus

breath

trigger


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

click

land off the port bow

or die

aim

"fire"


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

'copy that'

next


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

easy to speak for the living

I would like some one to speak for the dead

row

after

row

and stop hijacking their lives for your own personal agenda


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow Moron your posts above seem at odds with your own profile, where you say, "All things are possible for those who believe in their own dreams and I suggest to all that you grab that, life is short." Or are you just trying to live up to your avatar AND nickname (redundant question, does NOT need an answer). *;-)*


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Redundancy is good, Mike. That's why I wear a belt AND suspenders. 
Is a pair of twins 4?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

You know Moron, I have re-read your posts and have to admit that they are ambiguous, and can be taken as either anti-Republican OR anti_Democrat. If you were to be more precise stating your thoughts, it would clear up many things. If I am wrong then I apologize. Though stretching out your thought over four different consecutive posts tends to make me believe my first post to you to be the most accurate.

As far as respecting those who died in the military, they belong to many faiths and political affiliations. As much as the Republicans regret it, THAT fact will not go away. And back on-topic, this thread is about the GENERAL TENDENCY of Conservatives to be significantly the MOST prejudice and racist (not just the only ones).


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## Joshuah (Jan 10, 2011)

Since the title of the article was so ambiguous I had to read the forum postings. I was a little shocked by what this topic is looking to discuss. If my brief moment of reading all the posts was right, are we attempting to say that low intelligence breeds racism? So a person with low intelligent levels is predisposed to being racist?
It is always a problem when journalists write out articles based on so little case studies and the common reader is spoon fed taking everything word by word.

On to your second and probably a little less disturbing fact, due to the hatred amongst the political parties in the US. You stated "the GENERAL TENDENCY of Conservatives to be the MOST prejudice and racist". I guess my first question would be one of how you went out, or how this journalist went out and polled Liberal, Conservative, Moderate, Libertarian, Socialist, etc….social views. 
In the accumulation of your ideas, if your unintelligent, your likewise more likely going to be conservative and racist. WOW! SO bold. 
FYI I am conservative and * not racist*, though I guess I don't fit your category because I have a 145 IQ.


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## RandyM68 (Jan 20, 2012)

I grew up in a small town in west Texas that was almost totally white. I hated all minorities, just like a good ***********************************, but didn't know why. Then, in jr. high, I moved to North Carolina, and found out . I went to a 75% black school in Greensboro in '78/ '79. I remember the big Klan rally that was planned, and all the protests that led up to it, the National Guard and their helicopters flying over. Even at that young age, I could see what a bunch inbred, retarded, toothless morons join the clan, at least the ones Phil Donohue hand picked to be on his show. On the other side, the majority were also a bunch of ignorant trash, that can't put a sentence together, have been on welfare and food stamps for two or three generations, and loot and burn their *own* neighborhood, when they get mad at ****************************** or win a basketball game. But this is not the whole argument, and only mindless assholes boil it down to just that. There are far too many stupid people, regardless of economic back gound, and education level. They live in their own little *black and white* world. They vote straight party line because their preacher told them that God was against such and such, or they support a woman's right to choose. Nothing matters except their own personal interests. We've all become greedy and self involved, my self included. Even the *enlightened* people who spout all this peace and love crap, are sitting all smug because they feel superior to all those poor people who don't have a rich daddy to send them to an Ivy league school. The whole problem with this country is that we are slowly turning into a true democracy. As a republic, we are supposed to get together every few years and pick the smartest, most qualified people to take care of our business for us. We trusted them to do what was best for the *country* because they were smarter than we were. They were generally successful land owners and business men who had management skills that would translate into actually running the country. Now we have a bunch of used car salesmen( no offense to used car dealers), that are all merely iterating a bunch of double-talking ********************, just repeating their particular buzzwords to get the crowd stirred up, and then dodging any actual questions. As soon as they get in office, they won't do anything without an opinion poll and a focus group to figure out how the sheeple are feeling this week. They don't want to piss off any of their idiots, oops. I mean constituents. They are just blowing smoke up the ass of whomever they are talking to at the time, all they're worried about is keeping their job safe for the next election. No one seems too actually pay attention to what they do, as long as the crap coming out of their mouth gives them a warm fuzzy feeling. Hopefully, I did that right, I meant to piss everybody off. If I missed, let me know, I'll tell you what I really think next time.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Joshuah,
The research was NOT done by a journalist-"...according to lead researcher Gordon Hodson, a psychologist at Brock University in Ontario. " And THAT was in the very second paragraph of the article, if you bothered to click on the first link to that article. There are several OTHER links to additional research within the original article that, if read, would provide you with a fuller picture and I am sure, a greater understanding of the findings.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Randy SAID: "The whole problem with this country is that we are slowly turning into a true democracy."*

I think you nailed a "homer" with that one (baseball NOT Simpson)! An educated populace appears to offend/scare those who desire to dictate others lives.

*;-)*


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

"An educated populace appears to offend/scare those who desire to dictate others lives."
Common ground there, Mike. Couldn't agree more.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

""IMO, this is central to my belief that politics and religion have NO place on LJs.""

LMAO!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Both sides are guilty of attempting to dictate, and both sides have proponents of education. Polarization is presented to enflame, or motivate. And the so-called research above may be well-intentioned as presented originally, but it too is kool-aid to it's web audience. Too bad others have fallen for it and present it as if it were some sort of Great Humanities Revelation…

Let the open forum of LJs continue.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Smitty,
You need to do better than "kool-aid" opinions… Try again with some research founded in science and not just opinion.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Ditto, mike. Think that crap is research? You can't do better than that…


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Smitty,
Still livin' in Egypt huh… Just how is THAT river Denial, huh…

BTW, there never was any attempt to deny that this crap occurs on both sides, it is just that MOST of it is from the CONSERVATIVE side. Relax, even the river Denial opens up into a larger more ambiguous body of water in which Denial gets watered down…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

How do you feel / think was the OP. Pun was funny in grade school.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Smitty SAID: Hoe do you feel / think was the OP. Pun was funny in grade school.*

Huh? Your grammar broke down, but all things considered… huh? But your the MO' intell'gent CONservative huh? *;-)*

P.S. -now watch you go back and fix it…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

That's off-topic. Please re-read the original post and if you wish to comment, stay on topic. Mike's a real stickler that way…


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Smitty, thanks for confirming the research findings. Not everyone would step up to the plate as you did…


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

The interesting thing about "liberalism" and "conservatism" when you study their premises you find that they are in this day and age diametrically opposed to what they were originally. Liberalism was closer to a "Libertarian" philosophy with SMALL govermental controls/involvement and more emphasis on personal freedom and responsibility. Whereas conservatism way back when was to try and "conserve" the status quo in government. Seems to be a "polar shift" has occurred over time. Jack Kennedy was considered to be a "liberal conservative" Democrat. The finest kind. But my take on this whole thing is that the liberalism has been "hijacked" by socialist/Marxist influences beginning in the 1960's-1970's. Now their "Nanny State" premises have turned many former liberal conservatives into either full blown Libertarians, Republicans, or Conservatives. Those that want more freedoms, less government intervention/regulation, and fiscal responsibility. Pretty much what Liberalism was in its infancy.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

You're really slipping, Mike. Sad to watch. Bye bye.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow Bob, 
We are only at about post ~35 or so and you are about to inflict Godwin's Law. Aren't you a bit pre-mature? Is it the poor showing of ALL in the Republican Primaries that is causing such disarray?

Sources man, sources. Where are your sources?...


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## RandyM68 (Jan 20, 2012)

In reference to my previous post, I wasn't advocating true democracy, I was saying that it is what's wrong with this country. Most people are, by far, too stupid to be running things. I'm not talking about how many years they spent in school, or how many letters they have after their name. I'm talking about common sense and the ability to look at the big picture. People only see their own little needs and vote for the party that promises to give them the most, or conforms to their particular view point at that particular time. The names liberal, conservative, democrat and republican, are all just words with changing definitions as well as changing membership due to these definition changes. Bob mentioned this above and somehow got accused of bringing up Hitler because he didn't have an argument. His argument was that the definitions of the words have changed. He didn't say anything about Hitler or Nazis. That was Mike. That is the kind of logic that links any criticism of Obama with racism and accuses all Conservatives of being prejudiced and uneducated. Of course, there are many hardcore racists, that are generally complete morons, who vote *Republican*. At the same time, in all the major cities, there are *Democratic* campaign staffers who go into the welfare projects, and pick up bus loads of voters, that don't have enough sense to get to the polls by themselves. It's not fair, in either case, to judge the whole party by the scum that sticks to the bottom of the barrel. Only an *idiot* would do that.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi Mike,
For what it's worth…. Wikipedia Liberalism
The writings of John Locke:
"The concept of natural rights and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life, liberty, and property."

From the "Major Themes" paragraph:
"Through all these strands and traditions, scholars have identified the following major common facets of liberal thought: believing in equality and individual liberty, supporting private property and individual rights, supporting the idea of limited constitutional government, and recognizing the importance of related values such as pluralism, toleration, autonomy, and consent."

The "Impact and Influence" section is quite telling. I think that it's easy to say that the "Nanny State" began with LBJ's "Great Society". Ironic that he was a CONSERVATIVE Democrat and the FIRST to "raid" the Social Security Trust Fund to finance Vietnam, the space program, and "The Great Society" programs. In particular, the "War on Poverty" programs that have drained the coffers.
I may get some hackles up with this statement. The welfare state that began here has made generations of "slaves" to the federal and state governments. People have lost their will to get up off their backsides and GO TO WORK. Why should they? Just sit on your backside and collect a check once a month. How can anyone acquire a sense of value when they make no contribution to society? Don't get me wrong. There are times when people need a hand. But for multiple generations? We let the genie out of the bottle. It's gonna be tough to put it back in. But back in it has to go.

Now, onto Conservatism : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

Here I found something that disputes your "theory" with respect to intelligence/conservatism/racism.
In the "Psychology" heading:
"A 1996 study on the relationship between racism and conservatism found that the correlation was stronger among more educated individuals, though specifically anti-Black racism did not increase. They also found that the correlation between racism and conservatism could be entirely accounted for by their mutual relationship with social dominance orientation. The authors concluded that opposition to affirmative action, especially among more highly educated conservatives, was better explained by social dominance orientation than by principled conservatism" footnote 100

Another pearl:
"A 2008 research report found that conservatives are happier than liberals, and that as income inequality increases, this difference in relative happiness increases, because conservatives (more than liberals) possess an ideological buffer against the negative hedonic effects of economic inequality."[101] AKA "envy".

Now I know you will "poo poo" all this, maybe not. As a "constitutional conservative" and NOT a "racist" I feel that you may be painting conservatives with to broad of a brush. I have a problem with ANYONE in a leadership position that usurps the Constitution AS WRITTEN. Be they white, red, yellow, green, purple, or black. That oath they took is a sacred vow with NO EXPIRATION DATE.

Bob


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## SidewaysMikey (Jan 30, 2012)

You read. See you extreme.

http://news.yahoo.com/americans-political-views-not-far-apart-155803567.html


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

"Sideways Mikey"? ROTFLMAO! In my country ve have a name for such a man, MISHUGINA!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

SidewaysMikey
2 posts in 6 hours
Location: *Higher Ground*

Your "location" just gives you away. Just another Sock Puppet Ghosting their way onto LJs. LOL! You play your broken English so well, yet "Higher Ground" is such an English dominate concept/phrase… All I can say is "BUSTED!"


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Bob, busy talking to yourself (your sock puppet)? ROTFLMAO!






*Bill Maher: In Modern Republican Party 'Denying Racism Is The New Racism'*
In the final New Rule of his show, Bill Maher focused on Rick Perry's "N*ggerhead" controversy and current Republican attitudes towards race. Maher minced no words in declaring unequivocally that the Republican attitude towards racism is not nearly as reactionary to how they respond to "reverse racism." Maher said that anyone who has to begin "more than half the things you say with 'I'm not a racist, but…'" then you probably have some explaining to do.

Maher parsed the multiple explanations given for the rock's presence, and even factoring in the argument it had been painted over, made the following observation:

"Overtly racist bull******************** thinly painted over. Honestly, could anyone have written a better metaphor for the modern Republican party?"

Maher argued that the current GOP position on racism is to just pretend there isn't anymore, but to immediately take up arms whenever they hear "reverse racism." He pointed out the societal disparities (i.e. unemployment, wealth) between white and black people in America, and wondered why Republicans didn't have a solution for these problems.

Then, of course, there was Herman Cain. As you probably remember, he was criticized by many conservatives for his negative reaction to the Perry hunting story. To Maher, this was unsurprising, suggesting that when Republicans reach out to black voters, their policy is: "You're welcome in the party as long as you never ever ever mention race."


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## SPUTTER (Jan 7, 2012)

I am a Republican (conservative-but I vote who I believe can do the best job-no matter who you are) (I am 100% sure that I am not a racist) but it is a shame you got the Democrats, left, liberals that say what is wrong with America is the Republicans, right, Conservative and some Indepedents, and then you got the Repulicans, Right, Conservatives and some independents who same the same about the other side. Anyone can print an article and say about anything you want, people will read it, some will run with the article and say it is 100% right, other will find fault and others will look for facts to prove or disprove but only those that will make them right. Know wonder this country is in a crumy mess with no one agreeing or at least trying to agree or at least get together and talk and try to come up with a good solution for America. America needs to come together and keep the stupidity out of it, but that will never happen. I love my country and my fellow LJ's, brothers and sisters and will always believe that this is the GREATEST COUNTRY ever. No room for articles of any tpye and one sided media (either direction) that start a argument and put people at war with each other.

My two cents worth - hope you all have a good day


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

No "war", just good honest stimulating debate over issues that are VERY IMPORTANT. Bill Maher fails in his argument when he forgets that Martin Luther King was a REGISTERED REPUBLICAN. When blacks first became involved in the political process they were Republicans. The party of Abe Lincoln. I'm gonna let this dog go back under the porch and lay down. I think I've made my point and illustrated my position. Now, let's fire up the machinery and make some sawdust!

Bob- Rochester, NY Home of Frederick Douglas and Susan B. Anthony


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah Bob, democrats *used to be known* for the Klan, HOWEVER *NOW it is the GOP* that are the known racists/klansmen. (eg David Duke run for 2012 GOP nomination). And after all, I believe that it is NOW that we need to be concerned about, and not the past in this upcoming election cycle.

RE: makin' sawdust.
Already beat you to it. Got things loaded up in the truck and heading over to a LJs buddies place to borrow his large belt sander. I have all my panel cases glued up and need a final sanding to size them identically. I'll keep you posted.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Randy SAID: "...in all the major cities, there are Democratic campaign staffers who go into the welfare projects, and pick up bus loads of voters, that don't have enough sense to get to the polls by themselves."*

I sure would like to see RANDY document THAT statement.

RAFOMALOL over and over again! At least this actually supports the findings of the OP research. Nice accusations… *;-)*


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

*Bill Maher fails in his argument when he forgets that Martin Luther King was a REGISTERED REPUBLICAN. *

That would be Martin Luther King* Sr.* There is no evidence that Martin Luther King *Jr.* registered with any party. The fact that MLK Jr's social justice agenda would get him labeled a Communist and a Marxist-Socialist by today's Republican right makes me wonder why they'd even want to claim he was a Republican. It seems a classic example of cognitive dissonance.


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## DonnyBahama (Jun 21, 2011)

"makes me wonder why they'd even want to claim he was a Republican."

They think it makes them look less racist if they claim a few ****************************************.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

A political thread about not wanting political threads on LJs…..classic


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*OK Off-topic, just for Bob*-- I got all my bookcase panels sanded (15 in total) AND IT TOOK LESS THAN 15 MINUTES! I don't have words for what getting access to some of my LJs buddy's equipment has/is doing for my own WW-ing. Never in my wildest dreams would I have ever thought I would have access to a 72in belt sander! We didn't use the "small 36in" one off to the side *;-)*... Just flat out amazing! And the real time advise from this master craftsman is priceless. I am a fortunate man to have met such a generous fellow LumberJock living so close. I would name him, HOWEVER, since I tend to draw fire for my political beliefs, I will pass on that and attempt to protect his identity from the ******************** that flies MY way. To be honest, I'm getting really good at dodging that *G*ood *O*ld *P*oop (GOP)

BACK ON TOPIC:
Donny,
Don't forget the guy who delivers PIZZA for the Repuplikans. I think he was related to John McCain, but that family tie broke off AFTER some of them actually got over the "Mc"Hic-cups" and became JUST the Cains and NOT the McCains… But I digress… Had way too much fun in the woodshop today…


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

SEVENTY TWO INCH? Gawd! Made quick work of your project I reckon. Machinery like that is the stuff that dreams are made of. That and 36" thickness planers. Ah to have a couple hundred K for a proper shop with an epoxy coated floor with in floor radiant heat. Three phase power. Down flow heated spray booth. A couple hundred acres of assorted hardwoods with a 28' diesel Woodmizer in the shed. (Heavy sigh)


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## DonnyBahama (Jun 21, 2011)

"Facts can be skewed to either side"
A skewed fact is no longer a fact, Scot. Facts are black and white - there's no gray area. I wish all conservatives would learn that. The Earth is not flat. Global Warming is a reality. The existence of WMDs in Iraq was a fabrication. Barack Obama is neither a Communist nor a Socialist. These are *facts*. Those "skewed facts" you refer to, churned out by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Fox News - those are NON-facts. You know how you can tell the difference? LOOK IT UP. The Internet is a tremendous resource, and factual information from unbiased news sources - with clearly cited sources - still exists.

"I guess I'm just another racist conservative that spent 12 years in the military and fought in two wars to protect your arrogant enlightened viewpoint."
First of all, I served in the military, too, so take your sanctimonious flag waving elsewhere. More importantly, your wars had NOTHING to do with protecting my free speech or any of my other freedoms. I hate to break it to you, but the reality is that you were just a cog in the greatest war profiteering machine the world has ever seen.

There has not been a significant *external* threat to the American way of life since the Cuban Missile Crisis in '62. There are, however, very real internal threats to the American way of life. These threats come in the form of greedy Wall Street bankers who bilked taxpayers out of billions of dollars and destroyed our economy. They come in the form of billionaires Charles and David Koch who continue to buy political influence and decimate America's middle class.

The wealthiest 1% of Americans have more wealth than the bottom 95% combined. That fact was released not by the "liberal media" - but by a Citicorp internal memo. Thanks to the Citizens United decision, these people are buying elections by spending hundreds of millions of dollars on misleading ads which are consumed and (sadly) believed by people who are either too stupid or too lazy to learn the TRUTH - that America's billionaires are BUYING our government, and using it to make more and more and more money - by screwing the rest of us out of a decent living wage, health care, retirement and much more. And the ONE thing they fear… the loan vulnerability in their master plan is that we can all still vote. They've got that partially covered by duping the gullible via Fox News and misleading political ads, but they're still worried, so now they're going after voting rights.

Time to WAKE UP, people! Ask yourself - has your life gotten better or worse over the last decade? You know whose lives have gotten better? Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, the Koch Brothers, CEOs at companies from Exxon-Mobile to Goldman Sachs, etc. etc. Plain and simply, this is class warfare, and you need to realize who is on which side, because there are two ways this can end. One is through elections. The other is much more bloody.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

"Global Warming is a reality" you call that a FACT????? HAHAHA


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## DonnyBahama (Jun 21, 2011)

Sorry, that was somewhat off-topic. Regarding prejudice, I think it should come as no surprise that it's more prevalent in those with lesser intelligence. It's common sense, really. I don't mean this arrogantly. The root of prejudice is ignorance. As you are exposed to other cultures and grow to understand them, prejudice melts away. But ignorance and lack of intelligence go hand in hand, so it's natural that less intelligent people are going to be more ignorant about cultural differences.

I will also say this about prejudice… We've all got it. I consider myself to be one of the least prejudiced people I know. I have nothing against people of any race, nationality, gender or sexual orientation - but I've got some big time prejudice when it comes to political affiliation and religious persuasion. I come by the former out of frustration; our country is in shambles and people continue to support the party that's responsible. The latter I come by through considerable experience. Every time in my life that I've been cheated, really screwed over, it's been by someone who professed (loudly and ostentatiously) to be a Christian. That's not to say I'm anti-Christian… I've met enough good ones to know that there are plenty of them out there - *BUT* I do struggle with it, and the more religious someone is, the more they go to church and flash their crosses around and put religious bumper stickers on their cars… the more wary I am because *I HAVE BEEN BURNED* many times by such people.

I think it's fascinating that evangelicals are Republicans. I know a guy in the Border Patrol that makes crass jokes about shooting immigrants - and all the while, he's got a big "I Love Jesus" tattoo. Isn't "Thou shalt not commit murder" a big part of his faith? And what about the whole "Love Thy Neighbor" thing? Such people are usually vehemently anti-gay, but if someone is gay, didn't God make them that way? Besides, doesn't the bible say "judge not"?

I will admit to considerable ignorance regarding Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam. Maybe Christians are no more hypocritical than other religions, I don't know. I do know that Buddhists have never bombed an abortion clinic, or sent suicide bombers on missions to kill innocent people.

Oops, off-topic again.


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## DonnyBahama (Jun 21, 2011)

Have to share this… On my way to work today, while stopped at a light, I saw an old man parading up and down the sidewalk with a sign that said, "Marx, Stalin, Castro, now Obama - DUMP HIM!" If this lack of distinction between communism and socialism doesn't perfectly exemplify the stupidity of many conservatives, I don't know what does.

I was tempted to roll down my window and ask if he's on Social Security and gets Medicare benefits. But I knew the irony would have been lost on him his stupid ass.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

"I was tempted to roll down my window and ask if he's on Social Security and gets Medicare benefits"

Guess what Donny? Third week of March I get my 1st check after contributing since 1964. Gotta wait a bit for Medicare. Got my own health care. Want it that way too. No "Obamacare". What about the junkies that get SS disability payments because they are a JUNKIE and can't work? Got a soft spot for them too? This whole contempt thing with people that are wealthy and successful boils down to one word, ENVY! One of the "Seven Deadly". 
As for "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" it is all contrived hog wash. Even the top climatologists at NASA have stated that fact. The world at this point is COOLING. This due to a decrease in solar activity. Not a "carbon footprint". But there are those that want CONTROL over how we use energy so that THEY can control its supply and cost. They are in it for THE MONEY, nothing else.

I worked hard all my life with my head and my hands. Learned my craft in the Navy during the Vietnam era. I made good enough "moves" to retire at 55. Didn't screw a soul to do it either. I made wise choices at the right time. We all make choices in this life. Some good, some bad. But this is where PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY comes into play. Do I have to pay someone else's freight because they made bad choice after bad choice? Remember the words "pursuit of happiness"? You have the God given right to go after it. Whether you get it is up to YOU! Not the government or the taxpayers.


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## DonnyBahama (Jun 21, 2011)

"Guess what Donny? Third week of March I get my 1st check after contributing since 1964."
Congrats, Bob. If more people embraced socialist programs for the essential aspects of life (education, healthcare, retirement), this country would be a better place for all of us. (Well… maybe not the people who are profiting heavily from the status quo.)

No "Obamacare".
Yeah, god forbid that people who have met with misfortune should have access to decent healthcare.

"This whole contempt thing with people that are wealthy and successful boils down to one word, ENVY!"
Envy has nothing to do with it. FAIRNESS has everything to do with it. After eight years of top performance at one of the top 5 software companies in the country, my job got sent to Poland so that the CEO's golden parachute could be upgraded to platinum. That crap is going on all over the country and it's not right. Companies are sending American jobs overseas for no other reason than to make sure that this year's record profits exceed last year's record profits. People are getting hurt. Families are getting hurt. Local and state economies are getting hurt. The entire situation helps no one save a few people at the top who go from being ridiculously wealthy to being disgustingly, filthy rich. I don't envy them. My needs are modest. I just want to make a living wage doing something that I'm good at, and save for a modest, comfortable retirement in which I don't have to worry about a health issue destroying everything I've worked for.

"I worked hard all my life with my head and my hands. Learned my craft in the Navy during the Vietnam era. I made good enough "moves" to retire at 55."
Good for you, Bob. But if you were approaching 50 today, none of that would hold true. It's a whole different ball game and the playing field is no longer level. How hard you work, how well you do your job, what "moves" you make - none of that matters. And if a family member develops a serious illness, forget about it. You're screwed.

As for climate change, I am reminded of an incident that happened to me years ago… I sat down to play a game a game of chess with a new friend. He told me he was a pretty good chess player and I was looking forward to the challenge. As he set up his pieces, he mistakenly placed his king on its own color.

"You've got your king and queen reversed," I told him.

He looked down. "No I don't," he said.

"You do," I reiterated. "The queen goes on her own color."

"No," he said, "the KING goes on his own color."

"Nevermind," I told him, "let's just watch a movie."

Seen any good movies lately, Bob?


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## SPUTTER (Jan 7, 2012)

It is a shame we have a political thread that is not suppose to be political. I agree with dakremer and others, I believe it is time to move on and talk about wood and wood working and helping others and not some bodies political agenda. I do not feel this is the site to move a agenda or talk about things that are controversial even though it was not intended for that. People have there own beliefs good or bad, not for this topic to judge. I did leave another wood working site because about this time of year or when something was not going someones way it turned into a political agenda. Just look at another OFF TOPIC dicussion, NOT POLITICAL, Anti-Republican-Anti Conservative jokes but please not Obama jokes, lets get real - this does tick people off. I am ready to talk wood, make some saw dust and finish my first major project (toy box for my grand-daughter) and help others even though I am new to wood working. If you have a politcal say go to a political site (even though this is a off topic discussion) and lets leave this to making great projects and helping other brother and sister LJ's. Have a great day and keep the saw dust flying.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

*As for "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" it is all contrived hog wash. Even the top climatologists at NASA have stated that fact. The world at this point is COOLING. This due to a decrease in solar activity. Not a "carbon footprint". *

I hate to accuse anyone of spewing bull******************** but that is some pretty pure stuff.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2011-temps.html
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/energy-budget.html
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/NPP/news/missing-energy.html
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/climate20111214.html
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2011/20110928_Butterfly.pdf
http://planetsave.com/2011/10/19/how-global-temperatures-predictions-compare-to-what-happened-skeptics-off-target/

*But there are those that want CONTROL over how we use energy so that THEY can control its supply and cost. They are in it for THE MONEY, nothing else.*

I'm not real big on conspiracy theories but this one really reminds me of the Underpants Gnomes.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Give it up Bob, I don't actually NEED additional findings in support of the above research listed in the OP. Though you insist on adding to the database in support of such findings when making such statements as:

*"...As for "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" it is all contrived hog wash."*

Muleskinner's got this one wrapped up. Good job.

*"...What about the junkies that get SS disability payments because they are a JUNKIE and can't work?"*

This statement makes NO sense whatsoever and lacks ANY documentation. Are you trying to resurrect the Welfare Queen Myth?

*"...Remember the words "pursuit of happiness"? You have the God given right to go after it."*

When did your god get into running the government? I know that it is NOT in the christian bible, so just where did you come up with this?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow Donnie! What more can be said that you haven't already addressed. Well done!


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## DonnyBahama (Jun 21, 2011)

I wonder how many conservatives will click any of muleskinner's links…
Of those who do, I wonder how many will continue to dig their feet in and stick to their idiotic beliefs. (My guess is all of them.)

To paraphrase the old adage about a horse and water, "You can lead a conservative to knowledge, but you can't make them *think*."


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

"We hold there truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienible rights. That are among these LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS". Remember these words? 
I truly feel for you that your position with a company was outsourced overseas. I also agree with you that corporate GREED is rampant. But we as consumers don't want to have to pay for the high cost of goods that would be produced by people that make a fair wage, with good benefits, in a country that stifles business with endless regulations. I see the brands of table saws and other equipment being purchased by forum members. Jet, Grizzly, Rigid, hell even my new Bosch. If they aren't being made overseas, the profits are going there. I know what I'd like to see happen in this country. A 50% tariff on ALL imported goods. Maybe that would "pursuade" companies to bring jobs back to this country. The heavy hitter in my town, KODAK, just filed for Chapter 11. The other is XEROX. Both just empty shells of their former greatness. But their demise wasn't just from "corporate greed". It was from bad business decisions made a long time ago. Kodak invented the digital camera. But their mindset was "Nah, this will never take off. People want film!" Really?

I have my views just as others have theirs. I'm going to stick to mine. You can stick to yours. Hopefully some common ground can come of this mess we're in. It better. Our debt is about to surpass our GDP. Even if you took EVERYONE'S money, it wouldn't cover it. Stay frosty.


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## RandyM68 (Jan 20, 2012)

Randy SAID: "…in all the major cities, there are Democratic campaign staffers who go into the welfare projects, and pick up bus loads of voters, that don't have enough sense to get to the polls by themselves."
Well, here you go, Mike. I can't believe an educated fella like you didn't know this already.

http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-2363-free-transportation-gets-voters-to-the-polls.html
http://www2.wrbl.com/news/2010/oct/25/free-ride-voting-polls-ar-1010319/
I narrowed the search down to *free* rides to the polls and only got 8 million results.
They also have to give out free ******************** to even get them to register.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/churches-offer-transportation-to-get-voter-id-132831563.html
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-campaign-launching-voter-drive-program-133528466.html
I'm sure you'll not get this either, but at least maybe you'll read the last article. It has a list of the people that they are "reaching" out to. Unless you are the biker from the *Village People*, I don't know why you'd want to be in that group. Conservatives may be linked with prejudice and the Klan, But at least we can get our own ride.


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

As for "Muleskinner",
Maybe you need to see some of the LATEST data. Global Supidity: Global warming or Ice Age?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Randy: "Conservatives may be linked with prejudice and the Klan, But at least we can get our own ride."*

And what, you cannot vote if you do NOT own an automobile? Is that kind of like virtually keeping the blacks/minorities in the "back" of the bus? You know… whites OWN cars and blacks/minorities do NOT to a large extent so whites don't have associate with them kind. I do have to admit, that DOES go along with your admitted prejudice and Klan ties.

BTW, Bill Maher got it right in the video.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

Bob, I'd love to see the latest data. What you linked to was not the latest data. In fact it is not data at all. I would charitably call it a critique. If I was less charitable I'd call it an ill informed and poorly structured opinion by an author with no credible credentials on the subject.

And I can't help but feel a little slighted that after I give you links to NASA and Columbia University you pay me back with a link to a Tea Party house organ that is "designed to give citizens a new level of networking resources to organize the Tea Party Movement/Conservative Movement." If this is your source for climate information I can understand how you came up with the "top climatologist at NASA" BS. I'd suggest you expand the breadth of your readings.

BTW, here's the latest data that your author claims CRU/UEA "refuse(s) to release". (Fair warning: it's raw data - pretty dense and arid stuff)


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

*Unless you are the biker from the Village People, I don't know why you'd want to be in that group*

Randy, the group you referenced included the young, seniors, blacks, hispanics, American Indians, gays and lesbians. I think it would be enlightening to know why you wouldn't want to be in that group.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Even as I sometimes get caught up and do it anyway, I try not top post on political threads. I see no reason to because they often have little reason to them. A lot has been on my mind lately about politics and the direction of the great United States of America though. So I hope most of you don't mind if I talk for a little bit.

One of my problems with most of these political threads is their tendancy to be on the left or the right. It leaves out some of us, like me, who cannot stand to have to make a choice to be closed into one box or the other. We, as a nation, all of us, are in trouble, and it will most definately take thinking outside of the box, to get us back on the right path.

I am deeply saddened by the state of affairs in my great country. There is so much blaming one side or the other that nothing gets accomplished. We all gripe about how nothing gets done in our government for this reasons. Then we immediately, at the mention of any political topic, resort to lowering ourselves to the same level and closing our ears to any opinion that may be different than the one we already have in our own minds. This is a tactic that, in and of itself, is called prejudice. To judge any opinion or person without even bothering to hear or is prejudice.

Some of us are in the middle. We agree with some things coming from the right, some from the left. We have no prejudice though that either side is always right. On the contrary, we believe neither side has the best interests of the United States of America at heart. Every politician I've ever met only had one goal, and that was to be re-elected.

Why is it that if I agree with something that the left says I am a liberal, a socialist, a detrimate to our society? What is wrong with change? Hasn't the constantly changing ways and environment of the American people, with their technologies, discoveries, and beliefs what has made this country what it is today? Can I not have an open mind to any and all ideas?

Why is it that if I agree with something on the right, I am a racist, a bigot, a conservative, a backwards thinking soul who is holding this great country back? Is anything solved by throwing away basic beliefs and morals to protect the common good? Can I not think for myself and learn from ways of the past? Can I not have an open mind to any and all ideas?

The last two presidents have been a good example of my thoughts on the left and right of politics. The left blames so much on Bush. Obama inherited the problems. It isn't his fault. If I don't like Obama, it can't be because I think he is unqualified as a president, I must be racist. The right ignores the fact that a lot of the problems were indeed started under the Bush administration. Everything is Obama's fault. If I didn't support this cowboy, then I must be against the American way of life. If I think he was unqualified as a president, I just be a socialist.

That brings us to this current year, when we will once again go to the voting booth and vote our choice for the next presidential term. So because of the close minded way my country has become, I will basically has a choice to make, between a man I think is unqualified to be president, and a different man I think is unqualified to be president. It seems that since I became old enough to vote, my only choices have always been to simply choose the lesser of two evils.

So is it the political process? Are we in deep waters no matter what we do and have no paddle to direct ourselves to calmer water? It has to be the politician's fault? We have no blame to carry in the matter? Can we as a people do nothing? Can there never truly be any change? I say yes, we can.

We, as proud citizens of this great country start to open our minds and act like intelligent, thinking people. We have got to stop simply taking whatever is crammed down our throats. I am sick to death of the crap that is spewed from the television, radio, newspapers, and internet on a daily basis. It's not just from the government either. It's also from the people who voted these morons into office in the first place. I have found that most people would rather stand behind the person they voted for no matter what, lest they admit they made a mistake.

I am here to admit it openly. I have made many mistakes with my votes in past years. I have pulled that lever, or punched that card for certain candidates that I was sure were the answer to what ails us, only to find later that they were the same as everyone else who goes to Washington D.C. Then when they go down that road, it's always either their fault, or the one who came before them.

I say it's time we look back, way back. This country has been taking the wrong road for some time now. We have to turn back though, before it's too late. We must go back and lay claim to this great land and make her great once more. How do we do that? Where is the candidate that can make this happen?

No candidate can wave their magic wands and give us what we need. No, we need to go back further than the candidates and look within ourselves. It isn't the politicians that have made this country. It isn't the left, or the right, or the government at all for that matter. What has always made this country great is it's people. It's the attitude, the tenacity, the hope, the spirit, the hard work, the souls, of the great people of The United States of America.

So what makes these people? Where did they come from? From who did they learn this way of life? These people came from all over the world. They learned their way of life through adversity. They done what needed to be done when it needed done. They pulled together as one big family when they needed to. They had each other's backs. They'd die for each other if they needed to. They'd fight for their country tooth and nail and damned sure wouln't apologize to noone for defending her.

We as a people need to step back. We need to keep our minds open, our spirits strong, and our path steady. We must remember that we are not democrats, or republicans, or liberals, or conservatives. We are *AMERICANS*, citizens of the United States of America. Remember that and stop treating each other like enemies.

I've read a lot of different opinions here on Lumberjocks, from Horizontal Mike, CR1, Dr. Dirt, Joe Lyddon, Moron, JimC., NBeener, BradNailor, among many others. I have agreed with you all. I have disagreed with you all. Some of you have most me smile at times. Most of you have made me angry at time. Twice that I know of I have been chastised for my viewpoint. Never have I resorted to name calling, bickering, and sniping as an answer to it though. Usually I just don't comment because I know how some of you are.

Please, I hope some of you take these words to heart and look at yourselves. You are doing just what the politicians are doing. You are being close-minded, ignoring other's opinions, blaming each other, and basically being conbative as possible, thinking it will get you somewhere. I assure you it will not. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. Learn not to ignore someone's opinions during a discussion. There is nothing wrong with ignoring someone if you cannot get along with them, but if you must ignore someone, do it completely. Walk away from the discussion.

I have seen too often in the ladt couple of months the same people having the same argument, casting the same blame, at the same people, over and over. The only thing that changes is the original topic on which it is posted. We, the ones of us who are in America at least, are all in this together. If we cannot learn to discuss issues in a serious, intelligent, open manner, then how in the world are we ever to expect our government to do the same? How can we ever expect things to change.

One great thing that I have seen come out of this present presidency is the consensus that a majority of Americans wish for change. We are an ever changing country, just as we are each in ourselves an everchanging people. We have the power to make that change happen. We just have to decide what change we want, and what change we do not. We will never do that if we cannot have communication. If we cannot do that, then we will forever be in a constant state of looking for change that will not come.

So I beg of you all to remember that we are Americans. We are one. We are a great nation. We can get things done. If you can't do that, look at what's at stake. There is a new generation growing up, as it always is. They will pay the price for what we do today, good or bad. It is their country when you get down to it. It is only ours to borrow, for none of us are here for a long time. We all only play a small role in this act. It's the overall legacy that counts though. Make it count.

Thank you, my fellow Americans, for giving me this opportunity to express myself, if only for a bit.

We now return to our regular scheduled broadcast._


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## RandyM68 (Jan 20, 2012)

Mule Skinner, I'll try talking to you. I don't think Mike actually reads what people are posting. He just looks for buzz words and then spouts off some crap. But, that's the way people are, even the college educated. He started this forum by accusing all Conservatives of being racist and stupid, other wise we wouldn't vote Republican. I watched for a little while, but it was just the same back and forth bull******************** from both sides. Some one pushes the hot button and everyone starts squawking. No one bothers to listen to anyone but themself. In my original comment, I said that both sides are full of crap. They focus on stupid little things that don't mean anything. I conceded that , yes, Klan members most likely vote republican, and so are people who hate queers, and people that a dead set against abortion. But you can't just condemn the whole group because of a few idiots, anymore than you can say every democrat votes that way because they want gay marriage and a bigger welfare check, but many do. Too many people focus on their own little point of view and block everything else out. They pick the candidate who promises to do the most for them personally, not the one who will do what's best for the country. In truth, I don't *want* to vote Republican. I feel that they'll drive this country the rest of the way into the ground. I just believe the democrats will do it faster. I am a libertarian, but voting for an independent is a wasted vote. So I am stuck with this group of idiots. I'm sure I won't like any of the candidates in the upcoming election, but with the way we pick them, there will be no other choice. I was trying to explain that people are too stupid and petty to be in charge of anything. Nobody looks at the big picture, just their own personal agenda. The founding fathers set us up with a good system. We are supposed to pick the representatives that will do the best job at promoting the general welfare of the country. That means people with the skills to objectively do the best job possible. We were supposed to pick the cream of the crop, and follow their lead, knowing that they are smarter and more qualified than we are. We have turned it into a popularity contest. We pick the one with the best smile, the prettiest hair, who promises to give away the most free stuff, and manages to make pretty speechs without saying anything that might piss someone off. Decisions are made by opinion polls and focus groups. My, whole point was that people, in general, are too stupid to be trusted with a vote. Mike agreed with me and then says this " An educated populace appears to offend/scare those who desire to dictate others lives." Well yes, I am scared, but not because he's too smart, but because he actually used to be a teacher. This is our educated elite. I had to try to explain what I meant, in a manner that he might be able to comprehend. Both sides cater to undesirable elements to garner votes, we have ignorant racists and religious wackos, and greedy rich people, and the other side seems to appeal to some really fringe type elements too. I said *" Of course, there are many hardcore racists, that are generally complete morons, who vote Republican. At the same time, in all the major cities, there are Democratic campaign staffers who go into the welfare projects, and pick up bus loads of voters, that don't have enough sense to get to the polls by themselves. It's not fair, in either case, to judge the whole party by the scum that sticks to the bottom of the barrel. Only an idiot would do that.*The only thing Mike could do was accuse me of lying about the buses. I provided him with evidence and he blames it on my Klan ties. I said way back in my first post that I figured out at an early age that they were a bunch of ignorant assholes. I admitted that I was prejudice when I was a kid, simply because that how things were, not because of any personal experience. Prejudice means forming an opinion before you know the facts. As I got older, my opinions changed with more wisdom. Now I think a whole lot less of white people, more of blacks and Mexicans. I still don't accept the politically correct version that all people are the same, and the only reason we have poor people is because those evil rich people don't want to share. As far as the group I referenced, these are the people who are most easily influenced by the stuff democrats promise. Young people are often liberal, full of ideas put in their heads by teachers, but having no real life experiece. Old people are retired so they don't have to worry about income tax, just health care and a social security, odds are they'll die before the economy crashes for good. A persons sexual preference shouldn't even be an issue, but gays and lesbians will turn out in droves if you promise same sex marriage and family insurance benefits. There are many members of the other groups that are productive members of society, who have jobs and pay taxes. Obama appeals to the ones who don't by promising freebies. But I'm a racist because I noticed, and I don't want to be one of the sheeple. I hope that cleared it up for you, although I'm sure *Mike* will miss it again.


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## RandyM68 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thank you ,William, that was very eloquent. You said it much better than I could. I let idiots piss me off too bad. I also type very slow so I started my last one before I read yours. I would have just dittoed your post. They'll just miss the point again, anyway. I've wasted way too much of my life on this discussion already. Later.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Randy SAID: "I don't think Mike actually reads what people are posting. He just looks for buzz words and then spouts off some crap. But, that's the way people are, even the college educated. He started this forum by accusing all Conservatives of being racist and stupid, other wise we wouldn't vote Republican. "*

Wow Randy, talk about NOT reading for understanding! *You* have the horse before the cart. In other words, in your rush to judgement (YOUR skimming for buzz words only), you FAILED to accurately assess the CAUSATION.

Get it straight man! BELOW IS WHAT THE RESEARCH SHOWS:

Those who are already of low intelligence and those who are already racist ARE more likely to be RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS:

++ The GOP/Republicans did NOT create low intelligence

++ The GOP/Republicans did NOT create racism

++ However, the findings DO SHOW that the GOP/Republicans ATTRACT low intelligent racists into THEIR party in far greater numbers than the Democrats attract such people.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

Being a so called "educator" for so long, I'm surprised you are putting so much weight and confidence in an article ABOUT a research study without actually seeing the research yourself. Summaries of research that offer no data and only express personal interpretation of the research hold little value. Without seeing the research and analyzing the quality of the study, this article has very limited creditability. Even an uneducated, racist, conservative could tell you that! 

Another good try at starting a fight on LJs though. You are getting to be very good at that.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

dakremer SAID: "Even an uneducated, racist, conservative could tell you that!"

Thank you for being one of the few to openly admit to that. And coming from a student, no less…


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

So from your "research" can one derive the premise that the Democrats do not "attract racists"? I submit that they do as well. Al Sharpton is a classic example. Listening to the racial spew that comes from his mouth he has all the attributes of someone that is "uneducated". He has been described by Harvard sociologist Orlando Patterson as a "racial arsonist". By that I assume he "inflames" racial issues. Let's face it Mike. There are whites that are "racial" against blacks and blacks that are the same against whites. I think that the research that you based this whole thread on is flawed. Did it even delve into the converse of it's premise? Of course not. This in itself shows RACIAL BIAS. The article you linked to by Adam Hadhazy isn't "research". The guy is a "science writer", not a researcher. Probably one with an agenda as well. I think I can say that he is as much a "researcher" as Bill Maher is a "sociologist".


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

BOB SAID: "So from your "research" can one derive the premise that the Democrats do not "attract racists"?"

Geez, Bob READ for content! Here it is AGAIN from above:

"...the findings DO SHOW that the *GOP/Republicans ATTRACT low intelligent racists into THEIR party in far greater numbers than the Democrats* attract such people.

Do you NOT know what *"far greater numbers than the democrats"_* means? Doah! The republicans have a far greater percentage of prejudice and racists than the democrats have as a percentage of their party… Geez… Repeat the above ten times and call me in the morning…

You purposely misrepresented your understanding of the facts in order to alter/substantiate your bias. If you did NOT misrepresent your understanding of the above research then you are just further documenting that same research's findings.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

Mike….keep something in mind. You keep referring to the article as FACT. I'm assuming you're doing this because, like most people, you see or hear the words "research study" and assume it MUST be fact. I'm assuming the research studies referenced in the article were done by way of survey - which if you know anything about research is a great way to poll a large amount of people, but lacks significance and accuracy. You could pass out the same survey questions to the exact same people on different months, or even different days of the week, and get remarkably different outcomes. You have not listed or produced any facts what so ever. You've merely posted an article with no credibility, claiming its fact (because it coincides with your own opinion), and are now ridiculously going after people who disagree based on the "facts" you've provided. Produce those research studies here, and let us look at the data…...until you do that…give it a rest…

You told Bob that he is "... substantiating his bias." Well without looking at the actual research studies, we can only assume the author of your article is doing the SAME THING - He's interpreting the "research" based on his own bias. I'm guessing the author is NOT a republican or conservative. Combined with everything I've said above and on previous posts, not to mention he has no citation (what-so-ever) of these so called research articles, this is TOTALY NOT CREDIBLE. Its no more credible than taking an article off Yahoo News!! I wonder if this his how you get all of your "facts" that you seem to know and force onto others?

Watch how easy this is…....

"In a recent research study in England, a link between the screen name HoriztonalMike and internet bullying had been found. Participant(s)in the study all had the screen name HorizontalMike, and based on a questionnaire of 35 questions, and documentation of prior forum posts , a correlation has been found. The relative risk of becoming a bully after switching your username to HorizontalMike is 1.99, or a 99% increased risk."

Must be true…...i wrote an article about the research that was done…..and it clearly shows the FACTS

Also, I now forgive you for your ways…..its not you….based on the research its obviously your username not your personality. I'd suggest switching your name. Maybe to FuzzyBunny?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Come on Doug, where are YOUR facts/research that disprove these findings? You DON"T have ANY! So make up things. Nice try kiddo.


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

You're very good at dodging things. You must work out


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Doug,
And THAT is/are your facts? LOL!


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

You want me to disprove your "non-facts" with facts? I dont have to. I dont need to. I didnt start this thread. I didnt start this discussion based on non credible information. I'm not trying to convince people by providing them with false pretenses from an unreliable resource. I'm not the one making claims of facts when their are no facts presented. I'm not doing anything other than telling you that your "facts" aren't facts at all; just an author's biased interpretations of a research study that may or may not exist. Being an educator like your self, I'd expect you to know this. I'm even going to give you more credit than you probably deserve and entertain the fact that you probably DO know all of this - you just like trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, and cause trouble.

You just voiced your "hatred" of religion and politics on Lumberjocks a few weeks ago, yet I continue to see only political threads come from you. I know you say you are only posting these types of threads to prove a point, and play it off as being the heroic Robin Hood (ie you are trying to get rid of the stealing by stealing). At least you want to fool people into BELIEVING you are playing that role - the righteous part! In reality, you're just a trouble maker.

I'm getting tired of making you look bad.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

dakremer,
You sure make a lot of noise for someone who purportedly has nothing to prove. Me thinks my facts hit closer to home than you like… At least I have them, and you don't.

I guess Doug, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT! JUST ANOTHER TYPICAL REPUBLICAN…


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

I bet you got so good at dodging things from joining in on PT class. Playing dodge ball with the youngsters? Cool pic of that video - didnt watch it


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## BobM001 (Jan 8, 2012)

OH BOY! Now THERE are a couple of "experts". Keith "What network am I going to get booted from next" Olberman and Bill "I'm just a HACK COMEDIAN" Maher. Your "heros" run pretty low on the totem pole.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

So Doug, you have tried, and have tried, and have tried, and have tried, each time unsuccessfully to communicate On-topic. You can go back to your massage table now and do what you do…


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## RandyM68 (Jan 20, 2012)

"Woodpeckers understand…"

Peckerwoods don't, obviously.


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## SquirrelNuts (Apr 25, 2011)

i usually dont participate much on lumberjocks. I usually just come by and lurk around and see all the amazing woodworking.

BUT HOLY ******************** Horizontal is an idiot.

Dakremer's got it right


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow! Two Republican Sock Puppets in a row!

*Randy, from profile:* (59 post in 12 days) "Found out I had to hump lumber and materials*... *so I quit them…"

*SquirrelNuts (the Ultimate Sock Puppet):* 
++ 5 Posts in 282 Days
++ NO profile
++ NO workshop
++ NO projects
++ NO blogs
++ NO reviews
++ NO forum topics
++ NO buddies
++ NO favorites
- 10: Actually thinks dakremer has anything useful to contribute on LJs


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Mike, brother, i just dont get it … are you really filled with hate and an argumentative nature. When you post a project you seem like the most normal down to earth LJ around but then i get into reading threads like this and i wonder what your goal is. To anger an entire community around here? To prove some roundabout point of view? To contribute to such a political seperation that is obviously effecting our everyday lives as Americans?

We all come here because we enjoy what we do in woodworking. When the pot gets stirred we all dont have the same beliefs, religion, politcal views, taste in fashion, or even like the same ice cream. Most of what we know has been founded on tolerance. This allows us to be able to live and breathe as a community. We all have gotten so far away from this that our once wonderful country is beginning to collapse because we cannot come to terms with each other and different points of view.

I really want to like everyone, honestly, i do, but im havin a tough time with you Mike. Can we put aside the nonsence?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Well Chris, I see you have complained about and TO both sides posting this crap. THANK YOU.
(E.G."Do we need a new president" Thread). I will consider throttling down just as soon as the far right backs off as well. I appreciate your input on the "politics" thing.

BTW, I do have a new project coming to fruition. I am far enough along on my bookcase to start gluing up the carcase of each unit, then I can focus on finish. Had to finish all my panel inserts prior to glue up of each panel due to shift/shrinkage issues over time. Headed back to the shop for the rest of the day… Hang in there Chris.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Man im doin my best to hang in there, i just dont want to see a giant divide among members here but one group backing off before the next might be tough to accomplish without the bigger man or woman doing it first. At some point we gotta agree to disagree.

Ive been watching your project and its lookin great … hopefully we get to see the end of it before you go and give yourself a heart attack or type all your fingers off on all these political threads


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Dakreamers a typical republican that thinks his facts trump everyone elses facts…he's not as intelligent as he try's to make everyone think he is…we might even go along with his self delusion, if he even put forth some "facts"...

When have you ever made Mike look bad, except in your own blown up, self important mind?

Of course the self imposed genius doesn't have any facts to back up his mouth..but he gets tired of making you look bad Mike!

hey dak..did you hear?..Obamas a communist Muslim…


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

OK Chris, OFF TOPIC, just for you:




























All this ******************** is actually going to turn into a bookcase! This is what I have done TODAY. Still need to finish. The inserts have been finished so as to NOT show seams when shrinkage effects size of inserts. It is coming together, even with all the politics. I am sure it pisses some off, but what the hell.

Do notice the book-matching inserts… *;-)*


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

HuFlungoo, you sock puppet (CR1?), you are already history, but interesting topic. Come on over and I can show you…


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

I did notice those book matched inserts, and can appreciate how much time goes into a project like this. I think i see a beard hair in your panel


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Just for dakremer, who needs to see the "original data" in order to believe.

THE ORIGINAL ABSTRACT THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN 'PSYCHOLOGICAL SCIENCE' -- A journal of the Association for Psychological Science:

*Bright Minds and Dark Attitudes-Lower Cognitive Ability Predicts Greater Prejudice Through Right-Wing Ideology and Low Intergroup Contact*

Gordon Hodson and
Michael A. Busseri

*Author Affiliations*: Gordon Hodson, Department of Psychology, Brock University, 500 Glenridge Ave., St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada L2S 3A1 E-mail: [email protected]

*Abstract*
Despite their important implications for interpersonal behaviors and relations, cognitive abilities have been largely ignored as explanations of prejudice. We proposed and tested mediation models in which lower cognitive ability predicts greater prejudice, an effect mediated through the endorsement of right-wing ideologies (social conservatism, right-wing authoritarianism) and low levels of contact with out-groups. In an analysis of two large-scale, nationally representative United Kingdom data sets (N = 15,874), we found that lower general intelligence (g) in childhood predicts greater racism in adulthood, and this effect was largely mediated via conservative ideology. A secondary analysis of a U.S. data set confirmed a predictive effect of poor abstract-reasoning skills on antihomosexual prejudice, a relation partially mediated by both authoritarianism and low levels of intergroup contact. All analyses controlled for education and socioeconomic status. Our results suggest that cognitive abilities play a critical, albeit underappreciated, role in prejudice. Consequently, we recommend a heightened focus on cognitive ability in research on prejudice and a better integration of cognitive ability into prejudice models.

Received March 1, 2011.
Accepted July 25, 2011.

FULL RESEARCH ARTICLE SUBMITTED FOR PUBLICATION HERE


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## sthomas (Jan 20, 2012)

So if your stupid your prejudice?? Why is that we cant just have a a beer and keep our thoughts to our selves instead of stirring ********************? Last i knew we could belive in what we want. It was called freedom but now its called racisim.


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