# Do you advise buying plywood at Lowes?



## Don46

I'm a new woodworker and I'm planning wine racks for a basement installation. The racks will be seven feet high and one will be four feet across, andother seven feet across, all about 13 inches deep and backed with plywood. I'm thinking I'll use 3/4 in plywood for most of this project. It will be a lot of wood in the end. Lowes sells 4×8 plywood w red oak finish for a little under $50. I've not compared w other suppliers. This is a basement storage area, so it is not fine furniture, but I want it to look nice. I welcome your advice.

Don


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## woodspar

Do you have local lumberyards that you can check? Don't assume that L's or HD's have the lowest price.


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## lew

As John said, there may be less expensive places. There certainly places with better quality.

Lew


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## ChicoWoodnut

John has a good point. I go to the lumber yard where all the cabinet makers in town get their stuff. The plywood is high quality and it is very comparable to the borg's prices. The last time I was at Lowes, I looked at the stack of oak plywood just for kicks. It was all warped and damaged from being misshandled by an oaf with a forklift. They left that crap out till it all got bought by some poor soul.


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## Taigert

I have found that the material sold by Lowes and HD is junk. Their plywood is full of voids and tends to Delaminate. It is made in China, and has no know useage. 
I would find out where the cabineymakers in your area buy from. Price should not five where you buy from. Go somewhere where they stand by what they sell, sometimes you only get what you pay for.


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## Don46

Many thanks for your warnings. I will do some calling around. A local building supply store (Boozers Lumber) is going out of business (bad timing: expanded into the housing bubble burst) and they had a lot of wood for sale, all at half price. There are other lumber dealers and lots of experienced people I can ask.


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## Quixote

I have to echo with EdC.

I've been using some of the product as supplied, but be aware of potential issues.

From the size of both racks, I assume you're going to store more than three bottles of Boones Farm…

Caveat emptor, buyer beware…Paying more at a specialty shop doesn't fix the problem if it came off the same boat.

Short changing quality in this stage may lead to a disaster later with a delam problem…

"Let's all sing…300 bottles of wine on the floor, 300 bottles of wine,,,can't pass them around , 'cause they came crashing down, 300 bottles of wine on the floor…" Anyone want to see my shark bite scar? ( in a poor imitation of Captain Quint.)

Q


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## Karson

The problem in living our in the low populated areas, mean the choice is minimal. I need about 12 sheets of maple ply for the kitchen cabinets that I'm going to make. I hope that I can find some good stuff.


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## Don46

Yesterday I stopped by a couple of places, including a cabinet shop that will sell hardwood sheets (ripped if I want for a small extra charge) for slightly more than Lowes, but much higher quality: B2 Birch He thought Lowes sold C2 for Birch. I went down the road to Stock building supply and was finding Birch in different thicknesses for less than Lowes and higher grade.

Now I need to do some thinking about what I want this to look like. I have a structural design in mind, and I think I know how to make my cuts and joints. But what kind of wood with what kind of finish remains to be decided. Most of the people I'm talking too say birch would be a common, good look, especially if I were to stain them.


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## Dadoo

Check the plywood for that "Made in China" stamp first. You'll find we've been hashing it over and over here at LumberJocks. Avoid that crap. Avoid the hassles. Avoid the anger.


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## mccormickwoodworkingdot

Only buy plywood from these places if its your only outlet. Generally the quality is not there. You will see problems in staing where the veneers butt up to each other.


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## naperville

You can spot the Chineese stuff easily if you know what you are looking for. If it looks bowed on the pile, don't even get close, just walk away. That is unless you want your project with the same curve to it… Other things to look for, are many thin plies… Almost like baltic birch. Another, is the thinness of the exterior (face) veneer. If you can see the grain if the next layer through the veneer, walk away.

Noted here in the Chicago area, I have seen some ply marked with a Canadian maple leaf on the edge! It does not say made in Canada nor does it say China, but it is some pretty nasty stuff.

Tom


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## Dadoo

Canadian Maple leaf stamps? The stuff I got from Lowes was tagged with "SamLingUSA" which throws you as well. And Don, it was labled as a cabinet grade, maple faced ply. Looked good on the pile…Lowes sells a lot of it…but it's some of the worst stuff out there! Like I said, there's been numerous discussions here about the Chinese plywood…all bad.


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## gusthehonky

In my area the closet remaining lumberyard almost seems to have hand picked sheets of grade A, handled and stored with perfect sides and corners. Cost may be 10-15% higher but worth every penny. Will usually try to tack it on an order if able, when my boss needs high quality wood for a job(yes, I pay him.) Sometimes will settle for the big box, with a little picking and choosing little or no quality issues. The yard just seems to have nicer patterns, could be my imagination. For small orders at the yard I try to avoid rush hours and have list, know what I want, have proper vehicle, etc. and at all costs avoid the pain in the ass customer list.


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## sIKE

If you are willing to deal with the defects in the plywood then use it. I made my Miter Bench out of the stuff, much of the veneer was very pretty but I had a lot of waste working around some pieces de-laminating, those became drawer sides and cleats that are never seen. Just avoid any sheets with bows or cups in them unlike solid wood, cutting a piece down does not remove bow or cup.


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## DanM

EdC - Who do you recommend in N. Seattle? What about Midway Plywood on 99? Any others?

dan


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## Slacker

The birch plywood from Lowes is junk, especially the SamLing stuff. The voids are unreal. You can usually tell it at first glance because the surface will have a bunch of holes covered with putty. Also, if you look at the edge, there is not a uniform width to the layers. I even saw some of them at the local Woodcraft store.

However, Lowes and the big orange sell what they call sandeply (?) hardwood plywood and it is made in Peru or Chile or somewhere in Latin America and it appears to be of good quality. I made some shelves from it and had no problems at all.

I dont know what wood this is… does someone?


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## Don46

The votes are in and clearly I don't want to buy plywood at Lowes or Home Depot unless I want junk. 
I'm trying to educate myself more about plywood. I find it a little confusing; it seems there is a grading standard, A1 … B2 … C2 etc., but not all sellers use them. Lowes for example was selling "professional grade" red oak sheets. 
For this project, I want something that will look nice, take a stain, but it is for a basement wine bin, not fine furniture. What plywood should I use? I'm going to need up to 8 sheets, so cost is a factor. What grade could I get away with and still have nice looking win bins? 
Thanks for all your help so far. As I said, I'm a novice and eager to learn more.


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## Chris_

The Home Depot sandply stuff from South America is DEFINITELY not the quality it was just 12 months ago. I recently bought 4-5 sheets for building some shop cabinets. On the outside it looks good, but cutting up illustrates a lot of voids and even worse showed several places where the plys overlapped. 

This combined with the price of the stuff escalating to nearly $50 per sheet has me looking in other directions for this kind of material for shop projects.

It's a shame because it was a decent product for a decent price.


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## TexPenn

try ebay 
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-OAK-AND-PINE-PLYWOOD_W0QQitemZ200242106428QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200242106428&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318

http://business.shop.ebay.com/items/Business-Industrial__plywood_W0QQ_nkwZplywoodQQQ5ftrksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em1QQQ5fcatrefZ1QQ_flnZ1QQ_sacatZ12576


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## matt1970

don that is a huge wine cellar--8 sheets??? good luck…good questions I am learning along with you…


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## Don46

At least a third of that will be given over to storage space for surplus kitchen items (those appliances you buy and use once every three years but take up 3 sf of space) and other stuff, probably behind doors I'll have to add. But yes, I will have bins capable of holding about 400 bottles or more. I have an idea of using wine crates, those 12 bottle pine boxes you see in wine stores and which some give away, to put on some of the shelves. Those can hold bottles or other stuff you won't see. I'm going to put backing on the wine racks also to hide an ugly dirt basement behind them. 
Meanwhile, I have found some good sources for quality plywood, including a local cabinet shop that will also do line cutting that will allow me to run the cut sheets home in my sedan and avoid delivery charges.


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## Fancyplywood

China's fancy plywood such as what you bought"red oak finished plywood" is good. We have a lot of customers in US.


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## manumurf

In Hardwood and furniture grade plywood. The Letter or A, is the face, the other number is the back veneer. A-2 (at a real supplier of wood and wood products like Higgins in Sacramento, or MacBeath in various places if they are still around) used to mean a blemish free face veneer either rotary cut or Plain sliced (I usually went with the PS because it looks more like boards glued up) and a not as nice back veneer face. If you ordered A-2 the back face generally was not as nice as the front, maybe narrower veneer pieces but it still had no cat eyes (footballs, filled voids etc.) in other words it was good enough for the inside face of a cabinet end. Rotary cut means thy peel the veneer of a log in one coninuous piece rather than slice the log into veneer "boards" and edge glue them into the face veneer. It makes a big difference in the way a panel looks and how much it costs.

Get into A-3 you start seeing the footballs on the back side. A-4 really looks junky on the back with putty fills and other blemishes. In 1/4 ply, the A-4 did not even have the same species on the back.

Softwood plywoods use Letters for front and back. A-B is good face and filled voids on the back, A-C may have putty fills on the back and a good front face. B-C has those footballs on the front and putty on the back. C-D-X is filled on the front, unfilled on the back and has exterior glue.

I used to have very good luck with Higgins buying thier Paint Grade Plywood. It was usually maple veneer with some blemishes on the face so they could not sell it as A-2 or even B grade. I was buying it at about $27.00 a sheet at the time. I remember one time I was buying a few sheets for a job and when they brought the unit out to load my 5 sheets, they were all Birds Eye maple with some black blemishes in various spots and a few putty filled spots. Really nice grain unless you needed the whole panel. My order changed immediately to alot more than 5 sheets. I think at the time I could afford 12 or so. I think I still have 1/2 sheet out there in the shop waiting for something.

I don't know where the term "Commercial Grade" comes from but I would guess it originates from one othe these big box stores.

If you want good plywood, stick to the Hardwood Suppliers in your area. You may also have good luck by getting to know your locally owned lumber yard. The mom and pop place. They can usually get good stuff from places like Higgins that only sells wholesale. It will probably cost more but the quality is definitely worth it.


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## davidpettinger

I have to agree with everyone. Stay away from the BBS's. I use a local lumber yard. They order from a plywood distributor (Aetna Plywood). the quality is great. The culls in fact are usually better than the Chinese stuff at the other places. I have bought the culls in fact for $10 a piece and used them for shop projects.


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## jbert

I am late on this discussion, but my local hardwood supplier sells 7 ply grade A2 vaneers and they beat ANYTHING Lowes or HD can sell. Hope this helps


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## Buttpiratew

never shop at lowes. If its a cabinet grade and sanded plywood it may be ok. take a good look at each sheet make sure it dosen't look like junk. I usually get my plywood from home depot and its pretty decent stuff..


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## Resurrected

OK sounds like your wanting good so go to your local mill and spend the extra 10 to 20 dollars more a sheet.

On the other hand the information about lowes selling china is correct. I wouldn't buy the crap since my experience a few years back. Some one said about the but joints being bad. They are. Stick out like a sore thumb.

But this weekend I was at the Depot and it surprised me to see MADE IN THE USA. They were stocking pure bond plywood. I don't have personal experience with this plywood, just stating the fact that some of the above answers were unfounded. Might just give a sheet a try to see what it does on a personal project.


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## pvwoodcrafts

Did one kitchen with lowes "chinese" plywood for a friend of mine. He saved a couple bucks but it cost me a bundle to resharpen everything I stuck into that garbage. NEVER again!!


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## Sawkerf

Res -

I used some of that HD "Pure Bond" ply (1/2" Birch) today for an economy project for a friend and was surprised to find that it wasn't all that bad. Few voids in any of the three sheets, and minimal warping/twisting in the cut pieces.

The plies are thin, but there will be little sanding on the project so I'm not too concerned about sand thrus. I won't be using it for any of my kitchen projects, but it seems to be fine for this job.


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## Resurrected

Sounds good. I get alot of work from Slum lords (Actually a friend) who want cabinets in their rentals that are well built but cheap. This plywood might fit his ticket. He just paints them.


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## terrystggs

the plywood at the boxes is all low grade as well as for most lumber companies. they are trying to compete with price. the problem with china made plywood is the core of the plywood. the veneer is the same as domestic plywoods but they are using poplar for the core and it is causing the warping.the veneers are so thin since the learned to cut the veneer with lasers. my suggestion is to find a good cabinet shop that will share info with you about their supplier. then you can order direct from them and most will not charge you any more for a sheet than they do the cabinet shops. good luck!!!


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