# Carbide inserts



## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

For those of you that use some carbide insert turning tools. have you noticed quality differences? There seems to be a wide variety of prices, so does the quality correspond? If you have any insight as to the differences and labeling, please let me know.
Thank You,
Mike


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I buy carbide from Capt. Eddie Castelin. Best price, and quality cutters.
Bill


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

I have bought those from Eddie, too…he is an awesome guy and a no BS vendor….I like him, but I have some 18mm round cutters I bought from a fellow that is now out of business, they were almost three times the price of Eddie's and I have to tell you, I felt they cut better. That is why I started the thread…is there a difference or is carbide all the same, or just are some others taking more profit?
Mike


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

I was asking about this vendor in a thread on carbide cutters over at IAP, without much luck.

http://www.carbidedepot.com/detail.aspx?ID=151059

Not sure if they have what you need, but take a look see when have some time.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

The carbides that came on my EWT's don't hold an edge for squat. I bought generic replacements off ebay and they are much better.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Bill,
The fellow I bought my best inserts from was Ken from Woodchuck tools an the IAP….but he is out of business.
Mike


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

Most of the carbide is rated with a C designation and number. For a long time all my carbide router bits were designated C-3 carbide. Now, Ill see some with a C-4 rating. 
When I was making the live centers I invented, I was looking at tooling, and saw some of the tooling rated at C-7. I think the higher the number, the harder or better the quality. 
Ask whomever you are buying from what the rating on the carbide is…............... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I have been very happy with the carbide inserts I have purchased from Eddie Castelin. That being said, I don't use my carbide tools much … only for roughing, then I go to HSS tools for final shaping and finishing cuts.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

I took a quick look at carbide grade for wood. Iscar "a very good company" suggests C2 for wood.
There is a balance that must be found of shock resistance and wear resistance. This balance could change on a rotary tool vrs a fixed tool such as for a lathe.
C2 has high shock resistance "resists chipping of the cutting edge. C7 will have better wear resistance, but is not so good for shock, interrupted cuts, or incurred chatter.
Carbide will wear, most often its better to have the edge wear some rather then chip. That is, a smoothly worn C2 edge cuts better then a chipped C7 edge.

Quality of the carbide….
The good carbides are expensive. Those are made with finer particles of carbide and the other alloys.
For example, my favorite is Micro 100 brand. One C2 grade Micro 100 cutter will out last 20 made in China C2 grade cutters.

It would appear that most wood cutters are softer grade carbide, the much harder grades could be a hazard for breaking apart and ending up in your eye.

More or less, its the quality of the carbide more then the grade that makes a better tool.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Unbob,

Carbide tool makers & woodturning vendors command high prices for their carbide cutters whether buy at a store or pay shipping for a single cutter. EWT's second link says their research found C-3 carbide best for woodturning.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/t/131/Carbide-Insert-Turning-Tools

http://www.easywoodtools.com/ewt-genuine-carbide-cutters-product-page/

Capt. Eddie little more reasonable on shipping. Mike thought I saw 18mm round cutters there.

http://eddiecastelin.com/cutters_only

I remembers Ken from Woodchuck tools, had better prices on tools and cutters just did not know no longer in business.

Woodturner's new & old embraced carbide tools until time to replace cutters. Re-sharpening became an issue; many turners do not have CBN wheels on their grinders. Diamond card files only work so long if at all.

Know many pen turners went to places like carbide depot & e-bay where could buy 5 or 10 cutters for the same price of a single cutter.

I bought this shear scraper with extra cutters and really disappointed.
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-srby-shear

Blame myself and not the tool or cutters, bottom line do better shear scraping with my conventional HSS gouges and scrapers.

I went to ISCAR Metals USA and looked at their catalog and did not find any C-2 cutters for wood. Could you provide a link with prices?


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Thank you all for your responses..especially unbob and Wildwood…this was exactly the info that I needed. You guys are awesome.

I really liked doing business with Ken form woodchuck, he is a first class guy. Last I checked he still had a website up but did not answer the emails or phone calls. I still check in most days on the IAP, I just don't post any more…too many cranky old %$*^)'s….and at last I heard he had some medical issues and I have never heard the outcome.

So I came accross Eddie Castelin, talked with him an the phone and ordered some stuff….first class act…. for sure….but I just feel that his inserts dulled very fast. Now, keep in mind I am using them to "hog out" the center of the bowl, so maybe that dulls them quickly by nature…I just wonder what C-? they have…..he has a great price…..

I agree with you Wildwood that sharpening them on a diamond hone is not as good as I would have imagined. At least from reading some of the posts…some people say they have great luck….maybe I need to hold my tongue different or "wear yellow socks while sharpening".

Anyway thanks for all the help, everyone here is very helpful and has always been kind to me….
Mike


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## knotsburls (Mar 19, 2012)

Check out Kilian Tools @ knotsburls.com/kilian for the best price anywhere for nanograde carbide cutters.


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## knotsburls (Mar 19, 2012)

Sorry, should have elaborated; I primarily turn dry hardwood burls and all my roughing out is done with the Kilian nanograde carbide cutters. Believe me, I have tried them all over the years and that is why a turning buddy and I started our little business (Kilian Tools) with these top-line cutters.

knotsburls.com/kilian


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks Don! I will!
Mike


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## Gtorbert (Aug 28, 2014)

Has anyone asked Ken where he was buying the 18 mm round inserts or was he making them? Do we know if Ken's inserts where c 2 or c3? I need to order asap. Does anyone know if the 16mm will work with Kens tool he sold?


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Gtorbert,
If you mean Ken from Woodchuck tools, I have had no success contacting him. I have doubts if he is in business. I tryed his phone and his email. I don't know if his inserts were C2 or 3, but I do recall a post on the IAP several years ago where he talked about his cutters vs others, but I can not find it in a search. What about Capt Eddie, ask him what his cutters are rated. He ships quickly.
Mike


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## luckyrusty (Sep 13, 2015)

After reading all of the above. I want to explain a small but significant difference in carbide the smaller the grain. If Mfg.with the right adhesives the harder and sharper the cutter will be. Nano grain being the finest available in the world today will keep it's edge longer than any carbide manufactured in the the USA or Canada. The only company 
selling turning inserts made with this carbide to the best of my knowledge is Kilian Tools and they do not not sell at an inflated price there Quality is the best available world wide as is there price.

Rusty


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> The only company selling turning inserts made with …
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Their carbides are made of made of spam you say?


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

I suspect the inserts being sold are, already available inserts from many manufactures that have high sheer edges used often for fine surface finishing in aluminum and other materials.
The carbide insert identification system is a built up code. The code in the seventh position Is the one for the edge.
Perhaps someone can identify the inserts they have bought using this.
http://yildiz.edu.tr/~kiyak/INDEXABLE%20INSERT%20SYSTEM.pdf


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

Bob, thanks for the link, but it's useless for woodturners. All the info there is on carbide inserts for metal working….... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Shadowrider (Feb 2, 2015)

> * I suspect the inserts being sold are, already available inserts from many manufactures that have high sheer edges used often for fine surface finishing in aluminum and other materials.*
> The carbide insert identification system is a built up code. The code in the seventh position Is the one for the edge.
> Perhaps someone can identify the inserts they have bought using this.
> http://yildiz.edu.tr/~kiyak/INDEXABLE%20INSERT%20SYSTEM.pdf
> ...


Bingo! These woodworking tool companies are (for the most part) just buying industry standard carbide cutting inserts in bulk and marking them up.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Bingo! These woodworking tool companies are (for the most part) just buying industry standard carbide cutting inserts in bulk and marking them up.

- Shadowrider

I think that is what is going on. Once the code is found, then it would be much easier to source your inserts from a variety of top companies, also in any carbide grade.
In the future I intend on getting a dedicated wood lathe. I have been using a high speed metal lathe to turn wood for years. With that I use the cutters I have for aluminum finishing, the tool angles for aluminum cut hard woods nicely.
So, I use the feed screws on the metal lathe with the cutter mounted in its tool post, like on a wood pattern makers lathe. The metal lathe I am using is a simplified machine that can only turn, face, bore. No thread cutting making the machine much more simple and less prone to getting fouled up with saw dust.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Bingo! These woodworking tool companies are (for the most part) just buying industry standard carbide cutting inserts in bulk and marking them up.
> 
> - Shadowrider


I thought everyone knew this. You don't believe Capt. Eddie is making carbides in his garage do you? But there are carbides made for wood, not all are for metal. Someone like EWT can have carbides manufactured.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Keep in mind carbide is used to cut all kinds of materials. It appears Iscar recommends their C2 grade for wood. But, another manufacturers C2 may not perform as well, may need to go to C3.
This is what should happen when selecting a carbide grade. If, the tools edge begins micro chipping in use, the grade is too hard. Its best to find the hardest grade to the point of the edge chipping. That is, find the grade where the edge rolls over from use without chipping, for the best tool life


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Sorry, should have elaborated; I primarily turn dry hardwood burls and all my roughing out is done with the Kilian nanograde carbide cutters. Believe me, I have tried them all over the years and that is why a turning buddy and I started our little business (Kilian Tools) with these top-line cutters.
> 
> knotsburls.com/kilian
> 
> - Don Thur


Don,

Do you sell bowls in Goderich? We saw an ash burl bowl on Sunday in a shop there. The bowl was pretty amazing.


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