# Will you take $ instead of $$$ for that?



## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

A client contacted me to make something for him and after getting all the details, I set the price and sent it out. He responded with "I didn't realize it would cost so much." He then asked if I would basically give him a 'buy one, get the second at 50%'.

Would you:

a) tell him to go pound sand and stick with your original amount
b) counter offer
c) accept his plea to lower the price?


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

I wouldn't compromise, gotta value your work properly. You could give the client a full breakdown of hourly cost, materials, tool wear, shop supplies, etc. Might help explain the expense. Seems like anything I do for a commission works out to a pretty low wage despite the seemingly-high cost of the result.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Raise the original price by 10% and give he the "Whats up now, Bro" look. [Thats the one where you semi close one eye and cock you head 30 degrees to the side. A hand gesture wouldnt hurt.]

If youre hungry then its different.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

i wont lower a price because they asked. i have no problem in one way or another saying no, one if them being," your boss asks for two weeks of work a month at full price and the other two 50% off. how would you feel and respond?"


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Ok. I've been holding off responding for the exact reason of what has been stated. You come to me, ask for me to make something. I scratch my head, ponder a bit, pull an arbitrary figure out of thin air and then you challenge the process by offering to pay less…..hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

The only discounts I've offered were a deadline extension (I'll deliver within 3 months) and full payment up front. The full payment means no cash flow worries and the deadline extension means I can take on other projects and use the cheaper one to fill in my downtime during those three months.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Before pulling a figure out of thin air, I'll establish how I've reached a certain price even if it's unlikely I'll be questioned about it. If I am asked to take a percentage off my price I'll usually say yes, but first I need that same percentage off on everything I buy from gas to taxes, groceries, bits, blades, electricity, etc. That approach might be a bit arrogant, but it helps someone understand better why a lower offer cannot be accepted.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I have two sides. I will haggle for something IF I can. So if you have a used car and I am looking at it, dont be set on the price.

If I am asking for a custom made / hand made piece, this is less of an random figure (Think Kelly Blue Book) and more of a you-came-looking-for-me-Jack!

So, again, I would make a point of saying the following: "I have really given your request some thought and this is what I would charge for 1 (first price + 10%) and this is what I would charge for 2 (first price + 10% * 2). Any questions?--Wait a second, I run a fine woodworking business, this aint the soup kitchen, this aint feed my freakin sheep. You want it cheaper then go to WalMart. Oh, they dont have this? (Show the price to him again). I do."


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

My first answer would be a resounding NO, *but* you could offer to do a less expensive whatever with less expensive lumber, less expensive joints, less expensive finish, etc. with the caveat - probably won't be as nice or last as long.

I have people ask me all the time this same thing when I go to shows with my boards. My response is sorry, can't do that. If they want an explanation why - it's just "my price is my price".

If you want to negotiate - that's certainly an option - but for sure would not say "yes" straight out. Caving in without a little fight just sets you up for more bargaining that won't feed the flock.


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## nkawtg (Dec 22, 2014)

In these tight times, that seems to be the norm. In my line of work, customers are always hammering our price. And our price is very competitive.


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## Gixxerjoe04 (Jan 31, 2014)

I'd counter off a lower price if it were able to be done with cheaper materials, or tell them to go buy from china.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Tell them that the first one is a certain price. The second is double since they asked the discount question.
Labor costs make up most of the cost of a product; payroll is the biggest expense of a business.


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## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

I think the guy is using too many Burger King coupons.
I'd tell him I have to stick to the original price.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

you guys are killing me….

I get that someone would like a deal now and then but, as it was so eloquently stated, he came looking for me with a specific project in mind for me to make him. not something he can go and pick up at Walmart or Target, especially not Target because they left Canada with their tails between their legs 

I am by no means over-charging the client as evidenced by looking at other sources. In fact, I'm below what they charge so….sorry.


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## toykiter (Dec 9, 2015)

I would be very polite and ask him ,,U do want me to make money don't U?


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

I set my price, and if i have to draw a design, I charge for that. If they go for the quote, then I credit it to the purchase. Early on, I would draw work up quotes and they would not materalise. This way I knew at least they were serious. However I have offered a discount for multiple pieces. I once showed a person that wanted a Armour and to show a finish i sent a picture of a wine cabinet as an example. He wanted the wine cabinet too. I did offer a cut (10%) for the purchase for both.

I set my price, and stick to it. But thats just me. Biggest thing I've learned be willing to walk away. Also 50% up front, and design approval with signature, and they pay for change orders.


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## BigYin (Oct 14, 2011)

Go to wallmart and ask to pay half price … what are they going to say … no

no discount and at least the full cost of materials as a deposit

I have no bother getting customers who want me to supply free materials and work for nothing


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## Ripthorn (Mar 24, 2010)

Buy one and get the second half of is for shoes, not custom work. I would politely explain that to the customer.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

WOuld depend on the project.
e.g. making an end grain cutting board…. if I am cutting the strips etc, the cost of making 2 isn't 2X the cost of making just a one off of something.

A lot of projects require set-ups, and jigs that are time consuming.

How much MORE does it cost you to make two at once? Often the second time assembly goes smoother, faster and with less waste than the first.

Can you get a better deal on buying the materials for two? e.g. 10 packs of hings or hardware etc.

I would do a cost for making 2 and see if it is 1 + 50% of where you started or close.

He is looking to make a "package deal" for two… not necessarily beat you up on the price of the first one.
Go to any craft fair and you see 7.50 each or 2 for 10 bucks kind of deals.

Maybe the second at 1/2 price is too low. but you can come back and say "I can do 2 for X price but would need cost of materials for both up front - since you are looking for discounts from your suppliers on materials as well to get to his price"


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## WhoMe (Jul 9, 2009)

I guess I would look at it like others. Costs are fixed no matter how much materials you buy. Machine wear and tear… is fixed. Labor is the only variable. If you feel you gave him a fair price, then counter with a slight discount on the second piece, like the 10% mentioned. Only IF it is EXACTLY like the first one. Since you are setting up/machining one set of pieces, making a second set should be minimal effort. So a minor discount on labor could be justified.

Granted they don't require an explanation, you could briefly tell them what I mentioned above.
I do like tomsteve's labor rate explanation though..


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Most people are pretty ignorant about costs and time it takes to make things. If you tell them what you're really thinking, they're not likely to ever come back, and will also probably drive away other potential business. You can counter with what you think is reasonable, or stand firm on the quote….with either of those choices, they might accept, might come back another time, or will at least not speak poorly of you. Good luck!


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## ChrisBarrett (Jul 4, 2015)

I agree with some others, I think you should explain why it is priced that way and that you can't afford to offer 50% off. Then he can either buy one at full price and really like your work and understand it's value and order another, or find someone else to haggle with.

Or if you feel like you have some wiggle room, drop your initial price but charge the same for both pieces.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Since 2008, it seems to be in people's nature to try and chew someone down, whether they have the money or not.

From my perspective, I set a flat price upfront that I determine from my own formulas.

What I tell them is this:
No matter what happens, no matter what extra things I run into, I will stay at this price…It is FIRM. You will never be charged more than I have quoted on the firm quote given before work started. If you want two, the price will stay the same, (times 2), even if I find that the first one will not make me the profit I thought.

Almost always, they seem to realize that I am sticking my neck out and willing to take the chance that I will not find a hidden worm in the project that eats all my profits. And essentially, that is what I am saying.
If they cannot appreciate that, then I would pass on the project or do only the first one.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

There's nothing wrong with a customer asking for a better price. Just as you can set whatever price you want, a customer can offer to pay whatever they want. It's nothing they should be criticized for and certainly no reason to say anything snarky.

They can ask, you can say no.

And lets face it, sticker shock is a very common thing with custom work of any sort. Most people's reference for the cost of goods is based on mass produced goods. Just because the cost is more than they thought it would be, does not mean that you're charging too much.

If you never lose a customer because your prices are too high, it means your prices are too low.


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## nashley (Nov 25, 2014)

You could tell him that you're running a special this month and the price that you gave him already includes his 50% off the second item, haha.

Joking aside, if you have a good woodworking reputation use that to your advantage. I'd be much more willing to pay extra for someone who I can trust and that I know does good work. If he's not aware of your reputation, then you might brag on yourself a bit and point out the quality and workmanship that you put into your work.

Regards,


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## HarveyM (Nov 11, 2012)

I would offer him a cheaper alternative, if possible- made out of cheaper materials, or a simpler design. At least it shows respect that you're willing to work with him. In some cultures bargaining is the norm, so don't be insulted, but I wouldn't offer him a discount on the same piece- I mean your side business is woodworking, not haggling.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

I'm not sure I'm reading it right but it sounds like you didn't give him a price until delivery. Sounds like both sides are at fault.

I wouldn't make anything custom for someone until he agreed to the price agreed of time.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

Don, basically, the client is asking if there are any economies of scale. You need to set up a cut to make one, cutting the second one doesn't take as long because the set up has already been done. Think about the potential time savings and offer the client half of the benefit. FWIW


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

All pricing is discussed before I make a single cut AZ. There's no way I'll start a project (again) without an agreement and deposit.

I see your point Art about multiple cuts and this is basically a bunch of the same cut for both projects (amp isolation board). Point to ponder though…


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

b) counter offer

It's all about negotiating. You should have leeway in your original price for negotiating to start with.
Doesn't mean that you have to do the second one for half, but you could come down on both, and still make the same original bottom line.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Everyone is conditioned to think that BOGO is part of life. Counter offer with buy one get one at 25% off IF you want his business. You're a vendor to him, not an artist.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

Counter with an offer like … "If you order FIVE, I'll give you 5% off the total. Other wise the price is as stands."


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

Forget the counter offer crap. Say no and move on.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

My opinion is b).

I might be crazy but I always thought the purpose of being in business is to do business. If the counter offer is not accepted you can walk away, but not for lack of trying.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

See if this changes his mind? ,Say something like this very nonchalantly, since your such a good customer I already gave your a discount on the first piece,I was already thinking if I ended up building another one I'd have to charge more next time. I wish I could do that for you,but I have other clients waiting ,If you Really want it I might be able to squeeze you in and give you the same discount I gave you on the first one.


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Something to consider is how much history do you have with this client. I assume you used the term client to mean this is a customer who has some history. If that is so, considering a price reduction for continued sales is not a bad idea. Many businesses do this. For instance, the company I work with gives volume discounts when purchases reach a specified total. So if the customer purchases $1,000,000, they are given a discount (in the form of a refund). It is an incentive to increase sales and the discount is appreciated by the customer.

My point is: if your customer has a history with you, why not work a deal like this to reward customer loyalty and potentially secure future business.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> Everyone is conditioned to think that BOGO is part of life. Counter offer with buy one get one at 25% off IF you want his business. You re a vendor to him, not an artist.
> 
> - dhazelton


While I agree that he may appear to be a vendor to this particular person, not being an artist shouldn't be a factor, IMO. Not looking to pick on you.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> Everyone is conditioned to think that BOGO is part of life. Counter offer with buy one get one at 25% off IF you want his business. You re a vendor to him, not an artist.
> 
> - dhazelton
> 
> ...


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

I always tell those 'Price conscious' customers my price was actually my lowest discounted price. I go on to say my normal price for this item would by [25/30/40/50%] greater.
I then turn a walk away.
If they buy, fine. If not, that is their problem.
I refuse to be a slave to a cheapskate!


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Everybody who contact me is a client to me. He is not a repeat customer. He contacted me to make him 3 isolation platforms and I priced them out for him. He balked at 3, saying he didn't realize the cost of them and asked if I would consider the deal.

I price things as fairly as I can. i don't have any formulas to go by nor do I factor in time, cost of running tools, heating my garage, wear and tear or any such factors. Some will say I'm doing it all wrong but going by what I have made and now the amount of people I have to turn away because I'm too busy to help them (full time job still gets in the way), I think I'm doing something right.

I reduced the cost of a project for someone and felt like I cheated myself afterwards. I don't barter with my tattoo artist. He is an artist and for me to offer him less that what he is asking for would be an insult, in my opinion. I feel the same with my woodworking 'hobby'. People come to me to have something made that they either can't buy in a store, don't want to buy in a store or want something custom made. I do have a website but don't solicit.

I'm not sure if I'm annoyed or offended that he wants the 2 for 1 deal but regardless, I won't be taking it. If he comes back to me, then fine, no issue. If he doesn't, then fine, I sincerely hope he finds what he wants elsewhere.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

By the comments, it doesn't seem like very many have their own businesses.
Every job I go on I expect to negotiate. That doesn't mean I lose any money on the job. It means you go into the negotiations prepared. You know your bottom line, you start above that and if you have to take less you do it without affecting your bottom line. If you can't do it for less, then you simply tell them you can't go that low and say your sorry, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to bid your job. There's not much more to it than that. A little finesse and knowing how to sell yourself makes it easy to do. There are many ways to tell/teach your client why the price is what it is without telling them, this is it like it or not. It's called salesmanship, and it's part of being in business. It also doesn't hurt to lower the price a little knowing that your making 2 and doubling your sales in less than double your time, because it's not going to take twice as long to do 2.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

I never negotiate my profit margin. If I lower prices, it's because I'm getting something in return (deadline extension or payment up front or a high volume order) or the project is changed to become less costly or time-consuming. The moment you drop the price, it indicates to the customer that you were trying to overcharge. With a large enough customer base, it shouldn't be necessary to negotiate anyway.

On the same note, I never negotiate with suppliers. If they quote a price I don't like, I'll turn around and find someone else. Pricing should be based upon hard facts and if people know their costs and profit margins, there's no reason to play guessing games. Driving down your supplier's profits doesn't help anyway. It just makes people not want to work on your projects.

Oftentimes I do quote people the high end price and remove features if they want lower costs.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

Sitting down over a beer and talking about sales techniques would come out a lot different than trying to sum it up in 3 sentences on a forum page. I think every situation is different. If you run your business with the above said plan, I think it's great. I don't agree 100% with it all, but that doesn't make it wrong, just makes it the way you do business. I've done it 35 years myself and think my strategy/technique works great, for me. I don't believe though that dropping your price means your automatically overcharging.

"Oftentimes I do quote people the high end price and remove features if they want lower costs."

^ this IS negotiating!^

"If I lower prices, it's because I'm getting something in return (deadline extension or payment up front or a high volume order)"

^ this IS negotiating!^


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

I agree that it is negotiating. The actual *profit margin* is my sticking point though. It's the Abraham Lincoln approach of identifying the key issue then being flexible about everything else but standing ground on that one issue.

Somebody wants oak instead of walnut? Fine.

They want plywood instead of hand-laid veneer? Fine.

Simple square shape instead of steam-bent circles? Fine.

They request a 50% discount on the second piece but want to keep all the nice features? That's hitting my profit margin and therefore unacceptable.


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## Stewbot (Jun 7, 2015)

Buy one, second half off? so basically he would like you to do the second one for fun? That sounds like some Black Friday deal.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

You dont haggle with your tattoo artist….

Darn right. For two reasons: 1) its art, like you do. 2) the man is holding a gun that can either be used to make art or a mistake.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Have to agree with JAA
When I sold for the mechanical contractor, we often had to put in multiples of things, water systems, industrial HVAC installs, locating large machines, cooling towers, etc.

We quoted on materials, manpower, time, etc. The formula was the same every time, and we never changed. We won some, (enough to do well, actually), and we lost some. I provided the leads to the estimators, they went to the jobs, often with me, and we worked up a project, then issued the quote.

Sometimes after we gave a quote, we found out that some other contractor had the job, but maybe 1-2% less than us. We knew our price quote had been "shopped", where they used our price and asked another if they could beat it.
Sometimes we were asked if there was a discount on multiple installations, and the answer was always no. They would say, "well, the crane is already on site." Yes, but the crane works on an hourly rate, and they don't charge for the drive to the site. They make their huge hourly rate as soon as the outriggers go out and the clock starts. "Already having the manpower on site" is not a reason to lessen their hourly rate.

And a wood shop does not lower its rate for the second since the saw is already running.

So no, I don't change my price for a second one, unless they want to cheapen the materials then it might go down for both.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

B)

Great answers above but don't sell yourself short.


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## KellyB (Mar 1, 2015)

If I understand your client's proposal, he is offering to pay your asking price for the first one, and a discounted price for a second one. 
The practice is not outrageous; the amount of discount is. Maybe he works FOR Walmart…as a buyer
On the premise that you can do "mass production" for two, you could counter with a higher price for the second piece, pointing out the obvious to him about materials and other fixed costs.

I would also, as suggested above, do a contract with signatures on design and charges for changes.

In the end, it's your decision based on how much you expect/need to make on the project.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

Don, kudos for sticking to your price.

I don't do woodworking for profit, so I'll get that out of the way. I would think, from my unexperienced perspective, that if this is not a repeat customer, it may be a chance to make one. Even something like "Order two and I'll knock 5% off, order the three you initially wanted and I'll do 10%" or something. If he feels like he's getting a deal, he may be more inclined to come back. Then, in the future, you know that this customer is the type to ask for it, so your initial quote comes in 10% high.

Although, I could see this being a problem if the next guy comes in and says "I know customer A, he sent me, and he said he always gets 10% off, I want that, too." Then you're known either as the guy who prices too high, or the guy who gives discounts. Or both.

But 50%? Come on.

Or, put up a sign that says all veterans get 10% off, and tell him you do have a discount, and he can earn it (or, if he has, give it to him).


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

If they are identical pieces, I would give 5-10% off. No way 50% off though.


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

Offer him for the second item not the same item but something that costs you twice less.
For example if it is two kitchen cabinets make one cabinet and one toilet lid.


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## bob101 (Dec 14, 2008)

Stick to your price! I get 25% down as well before any work starts


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

I just do this as a hobby but often make more than one because I found it barely takes any more effort to make more than one copy of some things.

A lot of the items I deal with at work have an engineering cost and a manufacturing cost, the prototype takes a lot of money to make but the 2nd costs almost nothing in comparison, so that is probably where that line of thinking comes from.


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## nerdbot (Sep 3, 2014)

As a woodworker, I haven't been lucky enough/doing this long enough to have someone come to me for custom jobs. At this point, I usually offer to do projects at cost (if that) just to get the experience.

As a buyer, while I may try to negotiate a lot of things most people wouldn't, I never negotiate for something completely custom made from someone's personal/small business.

I dealt with this a bit in my day job (software engineer) at a previous employer - though it's a little different there because all the work is essentially labor/time and there are no materials, and there's no physical tangible object to deliver. But a lot of clients didn't understand why it took so long/cost so much to create custom applications from scratch.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> Raise the original price by 10% and give he the "Whats up now, Bro" look. [Thats the one where you semi close one eye and cock you head 30 degrees to the side. A hand gesture wouldnt hurt.]
> 
> If youre hungry then its different.
> 
> - SirIrb


Hahaha


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

No I would not, as a residential remodeler for 20+ years, here was one of the lines I would get, "'If you really give a good price on the first job I have more work for you"', my response was I bid each job on its cost, time and merits. how do I know you wont tell that to the other guy on your second job? 
Pay the piper for what you want, dont hurt to ask, but I learned being stuck on a low profit job unless I REALLY NEEDED IT, all of a sudden the phone would ring with a more profitable job and stuck on the other. I would rather take the down time, since as a rule had more work then I needed.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

Try to take the emotion that's in so many of the responses here out…

You have three choices, based on what you know it will cost you to make. You know that, don't you?

- "No… I need to charge what I charge, but I appreciate you reaching out to me." 
- "I can't do it for that, but I can for $$$$" 
- "Sure, let's sign the papers and exchange a deposit."

If you charged for your design (don't call it an estimate, those are free), and included proper profit and negotiation room, you can do the second two and still walk away almost as happy as the first. If you didn't, you're stuck, and the customer HAS to take #1, and may not feel as good about the transaction…

If you start the transaction with something like "I'd love to do up some ideas, do you have an approximate budget? My design charge is $$$" Most of the potential mismatches will never go farther. If he's thinking $1000, and the verbal clues have you thinking $10000, there's no reason for him to even pay the design charge. But if He's thinking $8000, you're in a place where you can potentially do business, and possibly educate the customer to pay your price. If he thinks a design charge is out of line, you know everything you need to know, just move along…

Never take a vision mismatch personally… Just find them early so your time isn't wasted and your ego isn't dented.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I do electrical work on side. If they don't want to pay 50$ an hour they can pay someone from the Home Depot parking lot. Don't bloody care since I hate side work anyway.

Had a Turkish guy give me a check for 850$ after I worked easter weekend for him. On Easter. Went to cash it at his convenience store and he only authorized 550$. Last time I worked for him on the side or through the company I work for. Completely fine with me.


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## bearkatwood (Aug 19, 2015)

I guess it depends how hard up for cash you are. In my beginning I almost paid some people to work for them as I had a wife and three kids to feed, thankfully now I could go with the go pound sand comment. I have also taken jobs I really wanted to do for cheaper than they should have been just for the chance to do them. Best of luck.


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> And a wood shop does not lower its rate for the second since the saw is already running.
> - Tennessee


How about:
1. No need to plan for the second piece as it is a duplicate. 
2. Faster work as it is easier to make let's say eight the same legs and two the same tabletops, than 4 legs then a tabletop then 4 legs then a tabletop.
3. No downtime between two tables.
4. One trip for the materials.
Every smart businessman be it Costco or Joe the plumber gives discount for larger quantity. Those who do not often loose business to those who do.


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## HermitStudio (Jun 25, 2015)

> Since 2008, it seems to be in people s nature to try and chew someone down, whether they have the money or not.
> - Tennessee


Been a lot longer than that. I was apprenticed to a custom knife-smith back in the 70's and early 80's. The disconnect between "saleable price" and "cost of construction" was huge even then.


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## newwoodbutcher (Aug 6, 2010)

Some people negotiate everything. When I run into them I simply say that I don't discount my work. I review the features and craftsmanship and ask if they want it or not. Sometimes that takes courage.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

TheFridge, could you take the check to a bank and cash it?

Sign in a small grocery store: In God we trust, all others pay cash.


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## PeteStaehling (May 3, 2015)

No need to be harsh or feel insulted, just say no if the offer isn't reasonable. You might mention that your profit margin is just too tight.

On the other hand, 716 has a point. You might consider whether making two might offer you enough economies of scale that you actually can do two for less than twice the time and materials of one. All of the setups would need to be done only once, and I find them to be one of the more time consuming parts of a lot of projects. Setting up and cutting two pieces sometimes isn't anywhere near twice the work of one. Similarly when milling, sanding, finishing, or most other operations, once in the mode of doing the operation doing another at the same time can be a lot less work.

So just maybe charging less for a second one done at the same time might be reasonable. It isn't quite the same as him offering to pay less for the first one. I'd guess that 50% less is probably too big of a reduction for most projects though.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

> You dont haggle with your tattoo artist….
> 
> Darn right. For two reasons: 1) its art, like you do. 2) the man is holding a gun that can either be used to make art or a mistake.
> 
> - SirIrb


I wish we had a like button! That's a good one, I'll save that for later!


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Thank you very much. 
Now just tell SWWOW (She Who Walks On Water) that i am funny. She has, for the last 12 years, not thought so.


> You dont haggle with your tattoo artist….
> 
> Darn right. For two reasons: 1) its art, like you do. 2) the man is holding a gun that can either be used to make art or a mistake.
> 
> ...


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## ste6168 (Mar 12, 2015)

I would give him 50% on both just for asking. Everyone should get a trophy!


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

To the OP.

What did you do?

Was the middle finger involved?

Did you give him my previously mentioned "what's up now, bro look with a gang sign hand gesture?

Did you up the first price by 10%?

Don't keep the homies waiting.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

In the end, I went with a modified 'a'. I simply told him I couldn't/wouldn't do it for that price. I told him briefly about all the work and effort that would go into making it and wished him well…


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

So did he pony up and pay after you educating him a little or did he tuck tail and walk away?


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Heard nothing back from him. I guess he either wanted the deal or he was walking.

I engaged in a bit of an email war with a guy who wanted a basement bargain price on a chessboard w/2 1/4" squares. I showed him the price he would have to pay if he ordered online and he got a bit nasty. Explained to him about custom woodworking and the time and effort and he scoffed, basically saying "so you have to do a little cutting, gluing and sanding for this price". I bid him a good day and told him that I didn't think we would be able to work it out. He thought I should be charging a lot less and mocked me when I compared my pricing to online pricing from a Toronto based store (chess baron), as if what I made and sold should be a lot less than Toronto's online pricing. Buh bye to that…


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't do estimates or bids "on the fly", when I present a price it is only after I know it is fair based on my materials and overhead. I don't negotiate my pricing. If the client wants a lower price, I will remove features from the project to lessen the price.

I quit taking it personally long ago. There are shops less expensive than me, and shops more expensive than me. If someone is bargain hunting they can find guys who will haggle, but I will not.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I agree with the above couple of posts. I wouldn't even back my price. It is what it is. Period. Otherwise it is like arguing philosophy online: both parties get dirty and in the end both look like swine. Screw them and bid the a good day. Not worth the effort.

Congrats on not being the soup kitchen of wood artists.


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## becikeja (Sep 12, 2010)

Relax, If you have enough business just inform him you are not taking on new clients at this time. But remember you started the negotiation when you began the design without an upfront price conversation. Since you agreed to the design work for free, although not on purpose, you opened the negotiation door.

Everything in life is a negotiation, Yes everything, It's a function of wants, needs and time, yours versus theirs. Number one rule in negotiation, is to get your emotion and desires out of the discussion. Which ever party does this best usually wins. Second rule is to always give the opposing person a way to feel like he won. Im not saying give in, I'm just saying no one likes to feel taken, so you need to let him feel like he won, In this case if you don't want to change your price then that's fine. You need to point out that your design was given for free. If you don't charge for something than you have already valued it,


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

He had all the pricing information up front so I'm not sure what you are getting at becikeja.

Someone comes to me looking for me to do something for them. I do some research and then I give them a price. At no point do I hint that the price is negotiable. If there is a possibility of a different pricing point, I will state that up front by saying if you go with this wood or we eliminate this or that it will make the price cheaper but not in this case. It was straight forward. He wanted three amp isolation boards, two the same size and one larger. It cost $$$ for the first project and $$ each for the other 2. He wanted them to match his flooring (Cherry) so I quoted Cherry for him. He came back saying he didn't realize it was so expensive and asked for the deal.

That's it, that's all…


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

Don, in my experience the folks looking for a bargain end up being the hardest to please. The last time I "negotiated" a price I ended up losing far more than just the discount.

I think you did the right thing by letting it pass.


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