# Norton Multi-Oilstone IM313 - I think this is my last sharpening system - updated with video



## Woodchuck1957

Chico, I was a meat cutter for about 17 years, I worked at a couple packing plants and a meat market. I think about every place I worked as a meat cutter they had one of these Norton systems. They are a very proven product that has lasted the test of time. Hopefully they are still made in the USA.


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## TheCaver

I'll agree that Norton makes great products, now you just need a Tormek (or one of its cheaper equivalents?)
to go with it!

As a sidenote, I'm leaning towards that purchase due to the fact that a hollow ground surface does away with the need for microbevels and such. Thoughts?

JC


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## marcb

I thought about that system, but ended up with a different set of oil stones. Still happy that I went with oil stones.

If you want a piece of advice that I received after getting educated on oil stones, use WD-40 as the lube at least for the coarse stones.

The lube is a good and bad thing when it comes to sharpening. It is supposed to float the swarf and not let it into the pores of the stone. However a thicker oil like the norton oil ( have an entire quart of if) floats on top and has a hard time filling in the stone. This leads to a longer sharpening time as the metal has a hard time reaching the abrasive. And the stone can get filled up with swarf.

Since switching to WD-40 my sharpening time is very little and the stones cut quickly. To that I can only add make a strop with a Hard maple backing and get some cheap diamond paste (50,000 mesh, or approx .5 micron)

The strop can freshen an edge a few times before needing to go back to any stone, and help polish up the edge after the finest stone.


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## ChicoWoodnut

Hi Woodchuck - Yes, they are still made in the USA!

JC - You are trying to put doubts in my head. Just when I thought I had vanquished them all. Hah!

Seriously though, the Tormek is a nice system. I think you are correct about the hollow grind. I just can't see myself spending that much cash. If I had a production shop I might, but I don't need to sharpen that often (unless I do something clutzy)

Marcb - Thanks for the tips. I had read that adding a little kerosene was a good idea too. Thins down the oil.


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## cmaeda

I also prefer oil stones for their durability although I do like the expensive Shapton stones too. I have never seen this system. Does it come with any way to flatten the stones? or do you have to buy that separately?


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## marcb

Chicowoodnut,

See my recent blog entry. I used a regular grinder for the first time and don't see a problem with using a real grinder with a regular grinding stone if you need any grinding.

Its not as hard as you may think it is, I know I was always paranoid about trying it.


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## Woodchuck1957

You don't need to add alot of preasure to the tool when sharpening, keep it light and steady, especially on the finer grits. A chisel and plane blade sharpening guide might be something to consider also for a precise and flat bevel.


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## ChicoWoodnut

Thanks WoodChuck. I have a Veritas guide but I'm trying to learn to do without it. It's a PITA to set up.

I'm no Frank Klausz yet though.


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## davidroberts

TheCarver: Regarding your comment about not needing a micro bevel when you hollow grind. Do you mean you do a hollow grind and that's all? No honing a micro bevel? Just using the edge put on with the grinder? Thanks


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## TheCaver

A slight hollow grind hits the tip of the chisel and the heel, eliminating the need to microbevel, in essence, cause you get it right off the stone. Once you hit it lightly with the stone, you just need to polish it on a waterstone/sandpaper….

Check this out:

http://lumberjocks.com/TChisel/blog/8106

I bought 2 veritas jigs, a pinnacle plate, all kinds of crap that I didn't need when starting out. I wished I had saved all that money and bought a T-3 (the lower end Tormek) or some LN chisels…..

Live and learn…..

Now, I sharpen everything by hand on sandpaper and touch up as I work. This has saved me immense time and I always have a sharp chisel handy….Stupid stupid stupid…..Just like my Leigh Superjig….All the time it takes to set up, I could cut them all by hand…..

Bah….

JC


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## ChicoWoodnut

Thanks JC,

I followed yor link. That is good information. Now you have me lusting after a Tormek LOL.

Maybe after I master my hand sharpening technique.


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## Woodchuck1957

I guess I don't understand why it's ok to trash aftermarket sharpening guides for stones, but it's ok to use the guide on the Tormek.


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## ChicoWoodnut

Hi Woodchuck,

Putting the Veritas jig in a drawer is just my preference. I feel that if I take the time to learn to sharpen freehand I'll be more productive in the long run. That's just me though.

As for the Tormek, I don't own one and won't likely buy one any time soon. I think the point with the Tormek is that the wheel leaves a hollow grind, making touchup on stones, sandpaper or whatever quicker and easier. That's because only a very small amount of metal at the heel and toe of the chisel bevel need to be honed. It's the same reason Japanese chisels have a hollow ground back.

There are 10^100 ways to sharpen stuff. This is just the road I have chosen. (for now


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## TheCaver

Scott, I'm with ya man, I threw about $275 worth of jigs and stuff into a drawer a couple months ago in favor of just doing it by hand. This is not rocket science, and I find myself touching up all the time since its so easy…..On average, I believe I have much sharper chisels for longer amounts of time than I did with all that jig nonsense.

But the Tormek (the $389 one) is on my short list, BEHIND 3 LN chisels .....A lot of people from NBSS recommend them….and those guys are all about fine furniture with hand tools….The work that comes out of that place is unbelievable and if they say its good enough to create $250,000 secretaries, than its good enough for my garage….

Woodchuck, even with the Tormek, you need to know how to do it by hand. The Tormek (or its cheaper equivalents) put a square, hollow grind on blades, and come in real handy when you ding a chisel up….not that I have ever done that 

JC


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## marcb

Just freehand it on a grinder, its a learned skill just like freehand sharpening that will save you hundreds of dollars.


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## sIKE

Scott,

I have been working on free hand sharpening myself. What I have found that works best for me is to use the MKII jig to do the initial grinding and honing of the chisel, and now I have the proper bevel and angle on the bevel. Now that I have a good and accurate bevel I am able to quickly free hand my chisels and larger plane blades. The only blades that I rely on using the MKII on for normal resharpening is my 1/4 chisel (I like to put a nasty little camber on it free hand) and my short block plane blade, as I found I was lowering the bevel angle when I was free handing it and even though I smacked myself multiple times I still did it. My only other problem now is while free handing as I go to place the blade on the sandpaper I some times catch the corner of the blade on the paper and cut it. But I am very happy with how everything is working for now…Scary Sharp using Brents methods and the 3M Micro-Abrasives.


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## ChicoWoodnut

Thanks sIKE,

I know what you mean. The steel with the small bevels are the ones that are giving me the most difficulty. The plane blades especially. They have like a 1/8" bevel and thats hard to keep flat against te stones. I'm not giving up though.


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## snowshooze

I am looking at that same IM313 you have in the demo.
I have used both water and oil stones, but just prefer water. Or dishwashing detergent & water. 
Is there anyone out there who uses water, or soapy water on this system? 
Oil works great, but it finds it's way all over everything… stinks.. I would rather avoid it. 
Thanks!
Mark


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## peterlonz

First thanks for the honest appraisal & the video.
Like you I have tried most options.
I agree that the price, durability, & metal removal rates of oil-stones is compelling.
Regarding your vid. I though it took rather a lot of work to edge your small chisel.
I'll bet you started with a chisel in already good nick judging by your workshop; so just flattening the back tool longer than I would expect. 
Then the "fingers above the edge" approach works; but not nearly as well as an (sharpening chisel/plane blade rolling) angle set jig which is quite easy to use. Possibly they do create a little extra stone wear but who can tell - ultimately especially the coarse/med stones will wear in the centre regardless.
The remedy thesedays, is flatten with a quality large size diamond stone, although unfortunately they are expensive generaly above $150.
I have not tried Kero or WD40 but I have found water works quite well - for those who dislike oil.
Unless you are young or have great eyes it is essential to keep a magnifying glass handy in addition to a 10x or 20x loupe all of which are available at amazingly low cost on the internet. No pint in talking about edge creation or other details if you can't see it!!


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## snowshooze

Ok… I do not mean to rain on your Parade… 
Two points. 
1. I use my belt to pull out chips. Very gingerly, not more than a couple seconds on it, then quench in water to avoid destroying the hardness. 
2. I bought the IM313 from thebestthings… Probably dot com… and they have the high end set. 
Red India, usually the finish stone… is the coarse one. Then translucent white Arkansas, then black Arkansas. They cost a couple hundred more. Hand picked rocks. Dang nice. 
I reserve the black Arkansas strictly for my straight razors. I shave with those things…daily. 
So, you guys that talk about sharp… if you really want to learn something about it…
Learn how to shave. With the straight razor. 
Then we can talk about 1/4 micron diamond stropping slurries and have a serious conversation.
No, but really, once you master the shaving edge, it all plays into everything else. 
I won't take my chisels all the way home, and I admire the effort here. 
Oh, another point. 
Once you oil your stone… it is forever an oil stone. I hate it, it stinks and gets all over, and to avoid cross contamination, you have to dump it.
I use water with dish soap and rinse and change between grits. 
I am getting pretty close to knowing something about this… you couldn't ask much more of a set for the shop, or the razor. 
I do have two stones I use beyond the black Arkansas for shaving…but that is getting pretty picky.


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## hiptech

Greetings Everyone,

I'm still a novice at this (know just enough to be dangerous) and actually came upon this post by chance while doing a search for Norton Multi-Oilstone. The reason for my research was trying to find out the value for this device as it once belonged to my dad who passed away almost a year ago.

I've been going through his tools and other items trying to figure out what to keep and what to sell before we sell his house and came across this sharpener. He was 88 when he passed and was a butcher for more almost 50 years so there are many knives, stones and sharpening rods that I need to decide what to do with.

Since I'm still a "hack" at woodworking (not near any serious level of proficiency I hadn't given any thought of using his sharpening tools for wood working tools. Want to say I appreciate this post as it has given me the idea that I may want to hang onto this multi-stone (or not) depending on how much I "butcher" my tools with it…

Thanks again for the info.


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