# Panel glue ups with biscuits



## leftcoaster (Jan 1, 2016)

When people use biscuits to glue up a panel … is the point to align such that the panel remains flat? In other words do the biscuits correct slight shifting vertically that would otherwise require reflattening?


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

That's what they do. They add little strength. You could use dowels or cauls to achieve the same result.


----------



## leftcoaster (Jan 1, 2016)

> That s what they do. They add little strength. You could use dowels or cauls to achieve the same result.
> 
> - Rich


Are they effective or do you still get out of alignment somewhat?


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Are they effective or do you still get out of alignment somewhat?
> 
> - leftcoaster


Done right, they're effective at aligning the boards. But if you don't cut them properly, you'll wind up with uneven joints.


----------



## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Reasonably effective. This is wood, so not perfect. Expect to still plane/sand/scrape to perfection. You still have to be careful with clamping as not to bow the assembly. Don't expect them to pull slight warping in line.

Strength is from modern glues that are stronger than the wood. I think they do add strength to things like face frames.

I am migrating away from mine to some extent. I prefer more traditional joinery, like T&G or half lap. I seem to do better with them.

I am sure about now is where the people with deep pockets jump in with the Domino sales pitch.


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I am with tvrgeek on this, if I were doing this as a production shop I would go with dominos but I think there is a $1000 entry fee. I have a brisket jointer that I bought at a yard sale for $10 but never have used it. For panels I can make cauls work fine and correct any minor alignment issues with a planer or hand plane.


----------



## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> I am with tvrgeek on this, if I were doing this as a production shop I would go with dominos but I think there is a $1000 entry fee.
> - controlfreak


If you were gluing panels up in a production shop, you wouldn't be using biscuits or domino's.


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Tony, I am not there so I was just guessing. That makes me wonder, how would a production shop glue up a panel?


----------



## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Edge to edge in a power clamp with cauls. Then the full panel is run thru a wide belt sander or planer to finish.

Biscuits help with alignment but you still need cauls.

While a good long grain glue joint is stronger than the wood itself its not strictly true about biscuits that "they add little strength". Glue fails when the shock is in the plane of the bond. Biscuits disrupt the shock wave.

In other than long grain to long grain biscuits can add significant strength in butt joints for doors and frames.

Building cabinet boxes is another place where biscuits excel. After marking and cutting the slots I glue (and let dry) the biscuits in 1/2 the slots. The cab boxes just slip & hold together as the tabs engage for easy "no fasteners" assembly.

You can also use doubled biscuits in leg/apron joins in place of full tenon.

Face joining an end into the face of a board.

I used to have a DBJ-50 mini biscuiter that used small biscuits in mitered picture frames and other tight spots.









DBJ-50 was a great little tool -sadly out of production.

Overall a biscuiter is a much more useful tool than just used for alignment.


----------



## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> Tony, I am not there so I was just guessing. That makes me wonder, how would a production shop glue up a panel?
> 
> - controlfreak


There's a lot of different ways. It depends on what 'production' means to you. It could range from simple hand clamped cauls, which are time consuming on a production level, to much faster pneumatic(sometimes hydraulic) panel flatteners.
On a small non production level, there shouldn't be any need for anything more than simple cauls.
Some people like biscuits though….if it makes them sleep better at night, have atter…


----------



## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

I do small production runs of panels. Since my shop is small, I made a rack that hangs from the ceiling and use nothing but pipe clamps and hang them. If your stock is prepared well a drum/wide belt cleans up any unevenness. No biscuits or anything else.


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> I have a brisket jointer that I bought at a yard sale for $10 but never have used it.
> 
> - controlfreak


I thought about getting one. 
There good for parties, when you can only find small briskets in the store. 
You can put 2 or 3 together and then cook one big brisket…..


I'm a biscuit user, when needed..


----------



## 1thumb (Jun 30, 2012)

> Tony, I am not there so I was just guessing. That makes me wonder, how would a production shop glue up a panel?
> 
> - controlfreak











Clamp Carrier


----------



## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> Clamp Carrier
> - 1thumb


Yep.
CF, the first couple of minutes will give you a pretty good idea of a fairly common system.
There are both more complex and simpler systems as well.


----------



## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

We had two large panel glue up machines at Jacobe. Two guys unloaded it in the morning and reloaded it for the night to sit. There are gpfaster ways to do panels…


----------



## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

> Clamp Carrier
> - 1thumb
> 
> Yep.
> ...


Man I wish I had room for that.


----------



## 1thumb (Jun 30, 2012)

Man I wish I had room for that.

- CWWoodworking
[/QUOTE]
They make mini-clamp carriers. Place I worked had that monster Doucette clamper. Great machine, great brand


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

> When people use biscuits to glue up a panel … is the point to align such that the panel remains flat? In other words do the biscuits correct slight shifting vertically that would otherwise require reflattening?
> 
> - leftcoaster


yeah, they do a pretty good job of that if your biscuit cutter is accurate. I had a Freud with a trash fence before I got P-C with a much better fence that locks tight and parallel. You'll still need to scrape or plane or sand but not very much to get the boards "flat".


----------



## 1thumb (Jun 30, 2012)

radio edit


----------



## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

The thing with biscuits is to let the glue fully dry (several days) so any moisture swelling in the joint area returns to "normal" before further flattening. If you sand too early, the glue dries and the freshly flattened areas shrink leaving small divots.


----------



## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

*Splinter:*

I've only ever heard of that in really thin ply apps (1/8" biscuit in 1/4" ply) but never in and solid wood app. Never actually seen it myself and I've used literaly thousands (based on the empty jars) over the years.

The glue in a biscuit doesn't cause any more wood expansion than any other glue operation.

Even if you completely fill the biscuit slot with glue when you insert the biscuit most all of the glue becomes squeezeout. You only need a drop or two per biscuit and that isn't enough moisture to telegraph thru squat.


----------



## Kudzupatch (Feb 3, 2015)

I will be glad to sell someone a very lightly uses biscuit jointer!

It is slower but I use an old Stanly dowel jig. Make my own dowels and I think I get better results.


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> *Splinter:*
> 
> I ve only ever heard of that in really thin ply apps (1/8" biscuit in 1/4" ply) but never in and solid wood app. Never actually seen it myself and I ve used literaly thousands (based on the empty jars) over the years.
> 
> ...


I've never had it happen to me but,

I saw it once on a small table top. Table was 3/4" thick, (cherry I think) maybe 36×36. 
When you got the light right, you could look down every seam and see where every biscuit was. I don't know how the table was made so have no idea on the amounts of glue used.

I used to have pictures, I will come back and post them if I can find them. 
(big task seeing that I have thousands of pictures)

Personally, I use a brush and completely cover the insides of my biscuit holes.


----------



## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I've had that problem (football shaped divots) in solid wood, but only when I put them to close to the surface. When centered on thicker boards there's no problem.


----------

