# Lie Nielsen VS Veritas Blade



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

So, I have been drooling and searching all over the internet for reviews and comparisons on the No 62 Low Angle Lie Nielsen and the low angle veritas for quite some time to decide on which to go with.

I see a lot of hype for both which makes it a bit more difficult to decide. they are both great companies and products, now, can any one tell me what is better on the Veritas over the Lie Nielsen or is it just a matter of preference. I think the bodies are pretty much even, but I cannot find any one talking about their blades. Is the Veritas PM-V11 better than what Lie Nielsen uses?

I only have a block plane, the LN adjustable mouth block plane and want to expand. Pretty much set on the LA Jack, either LN or Veritas. Just have not made my mind yet. Also looking to get a No 4 but again, not sure which one.

Any good advise will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

Welcome to LumberJocks!

If you search these forums for PM-11 feedback, you will find many comparison opinions. It is hard not to make comparisons between blades?

Never compared both #62 side by side, sorry. Did test both before buying one. Used a LN on demo loan for a few weeks, and didn't buy it due extra time required for blade sharpening. Bought the Veritas due IMHO - better blade. IME - PM-11 blades stay sharp longer, and take less time to sharpen compared LN (or any) A2 blades.
Hate to sound like a commercial for PM-11 plane blades, but most all my 12 assorted Stanley Bedrock planes have been changed to PM-11 blades.

YMMV


----------



## KelleyCrafts (May 17, 2016)

Another vote for the PM-V11 blades. I like them. Lie Nielson uses O1 tool steel which is great, just not as good imo.


----------



## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

Short answer is yes the PMV-11 blade is better, I do have both and some Hock irons. Style and comfort and even brand preference will and should be considered as well as price? I have the 60 1/2 rabbit LN as well as the Veritas DX60 and a Stanley 60 1/2. Being a Canadian the dollar exchange now makes a huge difference when I am looking at tools, I purchased most of my tools many years ago, most at par! Went to a few LN shows and have a Lee Valley 20 min. away so have used both styles, like the looks of the LN but find the Veritas perform better after they are set up!
The #62 is one plane that for some reason I still want to get for personal reasons only since I find I use my #4 Stanley(with PMV-11iron) more than even either of my #4 Veritas (high angle and low angle)? Well maybe a #10 1/2 just because it looks cool?
As of lately have been leaning towards more vintage tools, LOL must be my age? Still hoping/dreaming of someday finding a Vintage Stanley #62 at a yard sale


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> Welcome to LumberJocks!
> 
> If you search these forums for PM-11 feedback, you will find many comparison opinions. It is hard not to make comparisons between blades?
> 
> ...





> Another vote for the PM-V11 blades. I like them. Lie Nielson uses O1 tool steel which is great, just not as good imo.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


Thank you both for the response and suggestions. I have looked and found some posts. I am leaning towards the Veritas for the blade even though someone posted that they make a 2" blade that could fit on the LN. But did not find anything with certainty.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> Short answer is yes the PMV-11 blade is better, I do have both and some Hock irons. Style and comfort and even brand preference will and should be considered as well as price? I have the 60 1/2 rabbit LN as well as the Veritas DX60 and a Stanley 60 1/2. Being a Canadian the dollar exchange now makes a huge difference when I am looking at tools, I purchased most of my tools many years ago, most at par! Went to a few LN shows and have a Lee Valley 20 min. away so have used both styles, like the looks of the LN but find the Veritas perform better after they are set up!
> The #62 is one plane that for some reason I still want to get for personal reasons only since I find I use my #4 Stanley(with PMV-11iron) more than even either of my #4 Veritas (high angle and low angle)? Well maybe a #10 1/2 just because it looks cool?
> As of lately have been leaning towards more vintage tools, LOL must be my age? Still hoping/dreaming of someday finding a Vintage Stanley #62 at a yard sale
> 
> - Andre


Thanks for the comment, I almost pulled the trigger on the LN yesterday but then was also wanting the PM-V11 blade. Although I can afford to buy both, why would I do that when I am also looking for other planes, like a #4.

LV has a starter package, that I am tempted to get, but not sure about the SMALL Smoother versus the Regular BU or a #4. I also have not found much talk about it.

The starter set of planes include these three planes @589 USD with the PM-V11

05P2271, Veritas Low-Angle Block Plane, PM-V11
05P3971, Veritas Small BU Smooth Plane, PM-V11, with 25 and 50° blades
05P3471, Veritas Low-Angle Jack Plane, PM-V11

Any recommendations on a smoothing plane to complement the LA Jack.


----------



## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> Short answer is yes the PMV-11 blade is better, I do have both and some Hock irons. Style and comfort and even brand preference will and should be considered as well as price? I have the 60 1/2 rabbit LN as well as the Veritas DX60 and a Stanley 60 1/2. Being a Canadian the dollar exchange now makes a huge difference when I am looking at tools, I purchased most of my tools many years ago, most at par! Went to a few LN shows and have a Lee Valley 20 min. away so have used both styles, like the looks of the LN but find the Veritas perform better after they are set up!
> The #62 is one plane that for some reason I still want to get for personal reasons only since I find I use my #4 Stanley(with PMV-11iron) more than even either of my #4 Veritas (high angle and low angle)? Well maybe a #10 1/2 just because it looks cool?
> As of lately have been leaning towards more vintage tools, LOL must be my age? Still hoping/dreaming of someday finding a Vintage Stanley #62 at a yard sale
> 
> ...


Absolutely love my Veritas low angle smoother. Having said that, I love my Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 too.


----------



## bigJohninvegas (May 25, 2014)

I had a Lie Nielsen road show here in Vegas a few years back, and had the chance to use both the LV and the LN planes side by side. The local school that hosted the show had several LV Veritas planes. As far as quality I think they are right with each other. And I did buy a little LN block plane that day. I was in the market for a medium shoulder, and what I thought was going to be a #62. However, I found the LN planes to be uncomfortable in my hand. I am 6'5", and do have large hands. So I wound up with a Veritas medium shoulder. And never did get around to the #62. Since then I have rebuilt several old Stanley planes that I upgraded to the PM-V11 cap iron and blade sets that LV sells. For me the Veritas planes just felt better in my hand. Pure personal preference. I did intend on buying more Veritas planes, but one at a time I have found great deals on old Stanley planes. Funny how things work out. 
Aside from my little block plane, I have no experience sharpening Lie Nielsen blades. And only needed to sharpen, (lite touch up) twice so far. For my Stanley planes, I could have got A1, or O2, but chose the PM-V11 off of good reviews. 
And have no regrets. 
My little LN block plane has held its edge just fine. So my opinion is test them all, and the plane that feels good to you will be the best plane you can buy for you. 
Good luck,


----------



## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Being new to hand woodworking, I do not think you will be able to tell the difference in blades. For me, doing a good job sharpening is more important than blade material selection.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. I live in the Orlando FL area and there is no store that carries either of the two brands that I know of. I have also looked into Craigslist and ebay and found the Stanley planes to be quite high in price for items that I would have to Refurb. Now on top of it, with this pandemic, no shows either for the moment. I will make a selection and order, Most likely the Veritas starter kit.


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

If the decision is based on irons only, it's very easy - Veritas PM-V11. In my case if the decision is based on the plane it's still LV. Significant design improvements like the adj mout with stop and blade set screws make it a better tool than the LN. Now if you buy on looks it's probably the LN.

I have O1, A2, and PM-V11 irons and rank them PM 1st, O1 2nd. A2 likes to chip. The steeper the bevel the it works but PM lasts as long and sharpens easier, and doesnt chip out as badly.

As for a smoother, get the big one. It takes the same iron as the bu jack. With bu planes you want multiple irons at different angles so one is prepped for a specific task. I keep one at 25, 38, and 50 deg each. For a block the LV apron plane is all you really need. Pick up a Stanley Bailey 4 or equal - the best all around plane. Look up Paul Sellers to see what one can do. Its the one plane I dont want to be without.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> If the decision is based on irons only, it's very easy - Veritas PM-V11. In my case if the decision is based on the plane it's still LV. Significant design improvements like the adj mout with stop and blade set screws make it a better tool than the LN. Now if you buy on looks it's probably the LN.
> 
> I have O1, A2, and PM-V11 irons and rank them PM 1st, O1 2nd. A2 likes to chip. The steeper the bevel the it works but PM lasts as long and sharpens easier, and doesnt chip out as badly.
> 
> ...


OSU55, thanks for the advise. My decision is not based on solely the iron. I know both Lie Nielsen and Veritas are good and reputable brands, I actually have a LN 60 1/2 block plane and I am very happy with it. I tend to work more with power tools (Well also some scrappers) and want to expand in hand tools. As I research I tend to see a lot of good reviews for both companies. Now, also saw a lot of people talking about the PMV11 irons and wanted to learn more about it to make my decision.

I was looking at the starter kit from Veritas, mainly because it came with the No 62 I am after and also a smoother (Although the smoother is the smaller one). Also includes with the smoother a 25 and 50 degree PMV11 Irons. although it also comes with a block plane (I honestly do not need) thought the cost of the kit was fair. Now, It sounds like it might be better just to buy the no 62 and a smoother.

I do have a Stanley Type 11 no5 Jack plane that needs some work but that will be for another day. I am looking for a 2" lever for it as the one it has the edges are fairly chipped (Not sure if it makes that much of a difference or not).


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

Thank you all for the advise and suggestions. Ended up getting the starter set with the PM-V11 blades.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/bevel-up/74187-starter-set-of-veritas-planes


----------



## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

> Short answer is yes the PMV-11 blade is better, I do have both and some Hock irons. Style and comfort and even brand preference will and should be considered as well as price? I have the 60 1/2 rabbit LN as well as the Veritas DX60 and a Stanley 60 1/2. Being a Canadian the dollar exchange now makes a huge difference when I am looking at tools, I purchased most of my tools many years ago, most at par! Went to a few LN shows and have a Lee Valley 20 min. away so have used both styles, like the looks of the LN but find the Veritas perform better after they are set up!
> The #62 is one plane that for some reason I still want to get for personal reasons only since I find I use my #4 Stanley(with PMV-11iron) more than even either of my #4 Veritas (high angle and low angle)? Well maybe a #10 1/2 just because it looks cool?
> As of lately have been leaning towards more vintage tools, LOL must be my age? Still hoping/dreaming of someday finding a Vintage Stanley #62 at a yard sale
> 
> ...


I got the Veritas # 4 with the 55 deg. iron and large size hand grip and the Veritas scraper plane when I was working on some real difficult Walnut burl, think I used every plane in the shop and final finish hand scrapers This was all back when $ was at par and I actually got a pay cheque, the good old days


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Thank you all for the advise and suggestions. Ended up getting the starter set with the PM-V11 blades.
> 
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/bevel-up/74187-starter-set-of-veritas-planes
> 
> - meromero20


I would call that a very good start. You will be happy with your choice. Rob Lee guarantees that you will be happy too. At least for 3 months, which should be long enough to fully evaluate your new tools.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/promo/guaranteeandreturns

Enjoy your new planes.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> I got the Veritas # 4 with the 55 deg. iron and large size hand grip and the Veritas scraper plane when I was working on some real difficult Walnut burl, think I used every plane in the shop and final finish hand scrapers This was all back when $ was at par and I actually got a pay cheque, the good old days
> 
> - Andre


Thanks Andre, hope you are still enjoying the tools even though times have gotten harder.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> Thank you all for the advise and suggestions. Ended up getting the starter set with the PM-V11 blades.
> 
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/bevel-up/74187-starter-set-of-veritas-planes
> 
> ...


Thanks, therealSteveN. I also bought a 38 and a 50 degree blades with the kit and a small router plane. Hopefully, will do justice to the tools.


----------



## Mr_Tickle (Apr 30, 2020)

In case it helps anyone else, Henry Eckert sells powdered metal (PM) blades that fit Lie-Nielsen low angle jack and block planes:

https://www.thetoolworks.com.au/product-category/the-toolworks/pma11-10v-plane-blades-to-suit-lie-nielsen-low-angle-planes/

While I haven't tried one of these PM blades yet, I have only read good things about Eckert.

I agree with Big John that you need to test them if at all possible. I'm a PM-V11 fan and intended to pick the Veritas LAJ. But when I tested it against and Lie-Nielsen in-store, the LN felt better. Pure personal preference.


----------



## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

Mr_Tickle, the Henry Eckert web page you linked contains this statement: "We no longer supply plane blades for tools other than our own planes." Do their low angle #62 jack plane irons fit the LN #62?


----------



## Mr_Tickle (Apr 30, 2020)

I don't know for certain but it looks like they fit. I might take the risk of buying one, considering that their shipping rates are reasonable (e.g. US $15 from Australia to the US or £10 to the UK).


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

Vertías is quite behind in availability so, it looks like I won't be getting the planes until possibly June.


----------



## AMZ (Jan 27, 2020)

I would be curious to hear how their PM steel performs. Also, I believe Lee Valley has a process patent on their material. Now, with that said, it is easy to have material analyzed to determine content, but….that does not mean the performace of Eckert will be the same as LV, as how the material is sintered (baked) determines final properties.

For full disclosure, I happen to own a powder metal manufacturing plant, with in excess of 75% of output going into new vehicles, so I am very familiar with the process. My post is very much abbreviated, as I have no desire to speak of areas where suppositions may be taken as facts.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> I would be curious to hear how their PM steel performs. Also, I believe Lee Valley has a process patent on their material. Now, with that said, it is easy to have material analyzed to determine content, but….that does not mean the performace of Eckert will be the same as LV, as how the material is sintered (baked) determines final properties.
> 
> For full disclosure, I happen to own a powder metal manufacturing plant, with in excess of 75% of output going into new vehicles, so I am very familiar with the process. My post is very much abbreviated, as I have no desire to speak of areas where suppositions may be taken as facts.
> 
> - AMZ


Interesting, I am familiar with Manufacturing, but was not familiar that you could have a patent on the process.


----------



## AMZ (Jan 27, 2020)

> I would be curious to hear how their PM steel performs. Also, I believe Lee Valley has a process patent on their material. Now, with that said, it is easy to have material analyzed to determine content, but….that does not mean the performace of Eckert will be the same as LV, as how the material is sintered (baked) determines final properties.
> 
> For full disclosure, I happen to own a powder metal manufacturing plant, with in excess of 75% of output going into new vehicles, so I am very familiar with the process. My post is very much abbreviated, as I have no desire to speak of areas where suppositions may be taken as facts.
> 
> ...


Yes-I have a process patent on a run of the mill iron powder, that our processing method achieves high electrical conductivity.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

Well, was really exited to get these Veritas Planes, however loosing my patience with Lee Valley. In short, I placed an order for the Bevel Up Starter Package added a few blades at different angles with the PMV11 and estimated availability of 5/29. This was back in April, and although I was not thrilled to wait a month, I decided it was worth it. A month past by and not a word. The without even a note, I looked at my order online and it was moved to the end of June, I sent an email to see what was going on. The response was very short, "Thank you for your patience. Unfortunately, the backorder dates have been moved to June 30th".

At this I replied back basically stating that I had to now wait for over two months to get these and got the following answer, I guess they don't care much for their customers. "Thank you for your response. That is the expected in stock date for the planes. Many suppliers are having production delays because of the requirements of social distancing due to the COVID-19 Pandemic. If you no longer wish to receive these items, please let us know."

I work in Manufacturing/services and logistics and understand things happen, especially nowadays. But just to keep pushing their date without even sending a notification to the customers who have placed an order and are waiting for these items is the least they could have done. I sent an email to check on status and got responses that basically are leaving a lot to be desired from this company. I have not cancelled my order but really considering going to Lie_Nielsen. Really bummed.

Any of you also having the same issues with Lee Valley?


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Side my side comparsion of the #5 low angle Jack plane


----------



## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

You didnt ask them why you have not been notified of the delays. While its an irritant that will go away after you use their products.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> Side my side comparsion of the #5 low angle Jack plane
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply and great video. I was really looking forward to this plane but the company keep changing dates not even sure anymore I will get it any time soon. Original availability was 5/29 when I ordered in April, then moved to end of June and now I looked again and it moved to the end of July. So, comes July it will probably move again. Not sure the difference between the planes is worth waiting that long but I may be wrong.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> You didnt ask them why you have not been notified of the delays. While its an irritant that will go away after you use their products.
> 
> - OSU55


Did not in the email, just asked them why moved date. Response was vague, anyhow, LV just moved the date again, now it seems that the dates are looking to be end of July. Not even going to bother sending them another email.


----------



## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I have had the same experience with LV pushing back-order dates out. I have never received notification either. I ordered a saw filing guide from them somewhere around last August and got it somewhere around Thanksgiving. It is kind of annoying but it does happen when things are produced in relatively small lots and probably from relatively small shops. They really should address it better on the CS end though. Like OSU55 said, the products are generally worth the headache. Assuming you have the time to wait of course…


----------



## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

A delay of a month, even two, for a plane that will last a lifetime …

The PM-V11 is worth the wait. It is a far better steel than A2. Having said this, A2 is decent steel. The PM-V11 sharpens more easily (the A2 wire is tenacious), takes and holds a better edge.

I like and own both the LN and Veritas BD planes. The LN planes have PM-V11 irons.

The Veritas BU planes are the leaders in this area - just more sophisticated. Still, if you like LN, they remain excellent planes.

For your reading, an extended review of the Veritas Custom Planes, with comparison with other makes and styles …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes1.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Those of you who hare having back order problems. Have they already charged you credit cards or other forums of payment.


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Is the Veritas PM-V11 better than what Lie Nielsen uses?
> 
> - meromero20


Oh Hail yeah. Well worth any cost differential. Behind the LV blade I would then position Hock blades as #2, but if you are talking about getting the entire tool, go with the LV's

LN makes incredible products using the very best of todays metals, BUT they are recreations of the Bailey/Stanlyes, and still have a good many of the flaws they carried. LV planes are engineered from the ground up, thus the space age look to many of them, and they have tweaked a hand plane as hard as they can get tweaked, and stay together. Mighty fine users they are.

The very best thing, even if it requires a bit of travel is to research where they are going to be near you. They show up pretty much together for events. That way you can handle everything, and do same time comparisons. Plus both offer at least a 10% discount at shows. Free Shipping as well, as they usually send everything out.


----------



## Hondo03 (Nov 13, 2018)

I have the LN 62 and it is an absoulte joy to use


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> A delay of a month, even two, for a plane that will last a lifetime …
> 
> The PM-V11 is worth the wait. It is a far better steel than A2. Having said this, A2 is decent steel. The PM-V11 sharpens more easily (the A2 wire is tenacious), takes and holds a better edge.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information and great article too. By the way, can you still get the PM-V11 blade for the LN planes. I thought they were a different size.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> Those of you who hare having back order problems. Have they already charged you credit cards or other forums of payment.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


I checked and they only charged me for the blade and mini plane I obtained. So, at least up to now they have not charged for the items which are on BackOrder.



> Is the Veritas PM-V11 better than what Lie Nielsen uses?
> 
> - meromero20
> 
> ...


Thank you Steve. I am in central Florida and from what I can tell, there are no shows as of yet near me or at all.



> I have the LN 62 and it is an absoulte joy to use
> 
> - Hondo03


Thanks.


----------



## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

By the way, can you still get the PM-V11 blade for the LN planes. I thought they were a different size.

I was referring to BD planes. Veritas make PM-V11 blades for Stanley planes. They are thinner then the LN but sightly thicker than Stanley. They work very well in both NN and Stanley planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> Those of you who hare having back order problems. Have they already charged you credit cards or other forums of payment.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


They did not charge my card until the product shipped.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

> By the way, can you still get the PM-V11 blade for the LN planes. I thought they were a different size.
> 
> I was referring to BD planes. Veritas make PM-V11 blades for Stanley planes. They are thinner then the LN but sightly thicker than Stanley. They work very well in both NN and Stanley planes.
> 
> ...


Thanks.


----------



## meromero20 (Apr 23, 2020)

Update on planes, Veritas shipped the planes on Friday, should arrive Tuesday. Glad the waiting is coming to an end and looking forward to using these.


----------

