# Rounding Plane / Dowel Maker attempt



## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

*Wooden body*

I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.

A rounding plane is is like a giant pencil sharpener with a cone shaped inlet and an outlet bored to the exact size of the desired dowel.
I never held such a tool in my hands and the only ressource I have is an old Fine Woodworking article I remember which gave 2 guidelines :

The cone base is roughly twice the diameter of the exit hole.
The blade is angled 75 degrees.

Before I record the details of the building process I want to say that I am fully aware that there are some alternatives to rounding planes (router jigs, lathe, or contraptions such as Mathias' http://woodgears.ca/dowel/making.html) but I am a sucker for specialized hand tools and I would like to avoid using power tools for this task.

Here is the blank of wood that will be used for my (first) experiment :










On the picture you can see the layout lines. The exit hole has already been bored to the proper size (19mm) and a neighbour kindly turned the cone to the proper entry diameter (43mm) on his lathe. The cone shape is not as straight nor as perfect as it should but we will see later if this becomes an issue.

Now starting to saw the body at 75 degree angle (4 screw pilot holes were drilled before sawing to make registration easier) :










And continuing with a different saw as the first one was not deep enough (but ensured a more accurate start) :










Finally crosscutting to free the blade holder :










Here is the result with the body and the blade holder separated :










The blade holder needs to have a chunk removed to let the shavings come out. On the next picture, I kerfed the waste to make it easier to chisel out. (did not take a picture of the resulting chiseled out part but it will probably make it to some later stage pictures).










Ok, that's it for the initial shaping of the woodent body. I hope the irregular cone shape will not jeopardize the tool's usability.

Next post will be about the blade shaping.


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## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Very interesting. Looking forward to the next segment.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


 its a pencil scharpner you make … sort of

you can use a hollow side escapementplane too 

but ceep on coming with the next installment .. looking forward to it

take care
Dennis


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Great blog. I'm looking forward to the next installment. Love the saws too 

Can I ask how you made the tapered hole in the blank at the beginning?


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Been there done that but the crude way (two holes and a chisel with a clamp). Works nice, so yours will most certainly work very well.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...





















These are some of the toys I use when making threaded dowels. 
I will be watching you build yours. I am always interested in home made tools.


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## jaxonquad (Apr 20, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Cool! Ill be watching!


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Thank you everyone for your interest. 
I am making this up as I go along so I give no warranty that the final product will work/be usable…

Thank you especially Canadianchips for the pictures, I would love to have a close look at such tools.


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


@Andy : The blank was screwed on a lathe plate then bored to 3/4" diameter and the cone was free handed on the lathe. The side of the cone is decently straight but the junction between the truncated cone and the bored hole is not as crisp as it should. I am considering hand shaping it to correct the shape if this prevents the tool from operating successfully.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


I have a method of making dowels that I learned many years ago from a Fine woodworking mag. reader's tip. I blogged it as shown below. Cheap, quick, accurate and easy. I hope you like it.

http://lumberjocks.com/stefang/blog/14368


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Thank you Mike,
Looks like a good technique for smaller dowels.
My goal with the rounding plane is to cut dowels of 3/4"(19mm) and more in diameter and these are sizes for which I do not own metal cutting drill bits so I cannot give it a try.

interesting technique to remember though.


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## briansnider (Aug 20, 2016)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Hey Canadianchips, I have an idea for a collar with a sharpened edge on the bottom that has handles on each side to work a tree limb down to a straight dowel. have you heard or seen of anything like that?


> These are some of the toys I use when making threaded dowels.
> I will be watching you build yours. I am always interested in home made tools.
> 
> - canadianchips


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## briansnider (Aug 20, 2016)

llwynog said:


> *Wooden body*
> 
> I own a die and tap to thread wood but the diameter is 3/4" and this is a dowel size I can't find locally.
> I have thus decided to try and build a rounding plane / dowel maker to create my own 3/4" dowels.
> ...


Hey llwynog, same question as I asked to canadianchips…

I have an idea for a collar with a sharpened edge on the bottom that has handles on each side to work a tree limb down to a straight dowel. have you heard or seen of anything like that?


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

*The blade*

I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
As I basically make it up as I go along, any advice, past experience or actual tool description is very welcome.

I did not have a spare blade lying around so I bought a cheap (still it is high carbon steel and appears to hold an edge decently) block plane blade. I chose a block plane blade as the metal is thicker than many bevel down bench plane blades and the width matched the dimensions of the tool.

Here is the blade straight out of the parcel, with a mark on it to show the desired angle :










As you can imagine from the above picture, shaping the blade to the correct angle, flattening the back and then honing the bevel took a little while (about 1 hour) It would have been much quicker if I had owned a coarse dry grinder instead of my relatively smooth and slow wet grinder.

Here is the result :










Obviously it does not show on the picture but I managed to get the edge really sharp. Bevel angle came out about 30 degree which looks kind of right.

The next step will be to recess the blade holder (or the actual body itself, I do not know yet) so that it can be screwed back onto the body and its height comes back to what it used to be before I kerfed it with my saw. (does anyone even understand this sentence ?). 
In other words, if I screw the blade holder back on like it is now and without the blade, it will come 1 kerf short of the top of the body. The goal is to recess the blade of its thickness minus the original saw kerf which should garantee that the top of the blade holder ends up flush with the top of the body (which is required for the bored hole and cone to keep their proper shapes).

I could not resist a quick test with a 22mm dowel and the blade clamped on the body alone :










The blade on the picture appears almost square accross but it was really the same angle as penciled above.

This quick try was rather disappointing as you may see on the picture that there was very heavy tear out when I gave the dowel a few turns.

So far the various explanations I am considering for the tear out are :

The blade geometry within the tool might be bad. Right now, the blade is almost radial to the cone and I am considering wheter the finish might be smoother with a lower angle, so that the blade gets more tangential to the cone. 
The blade might be sticking out too much from the surface of the cone, creating chatter. If I could take a smaller shaving out of the dowel, there might be less tear out. This is probably linked to the irregular shape of the cone, a straighter cone (especially near the transition bewteen the cone and the bored hole) might enable a thinner shaving.

From there, my next course of action will be to continue with the current iteration of the tool (recessing the blade holder or the body to accomodate for the blade) and see the results. If I still get heavy tear out, I will try to correct the shape of the cone by hand with gouges or rasps and then if it still does not work, I will probably try to find another blank of wood to experiment with different blade angles and locations.

If anyone owns a wooden or metal rounding plane, I would be very interested in some information regarding its geometry. I am particularly interested in rounding planes by Ray Iles (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-IROUND.XX&Category_Code=CRI) if anyone owns one.

Until next time,


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


Ah, je vois, ta lame doit être tangente au barreau, pas perpendiculaire!

Intl version: the blade must be tangent to the dowel, not perpendicular.


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


Thomas,
That would be my gut feeling indeed (this is also how a pencil sharpener is made). 
The article I followed (as far as I remember/understood it) used this geometry however so I thought I would give it a try like this first.
I will probably need to make another blank but I don't have any more wood of the appropriate size under hand…


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


Good going! This is sure to be a winner.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...












You might be able to salvage this prototype by makeing a steeper cone shape. This would make LESS blade doing the cutting, more skew ! I posted pictures on your forum . My cone is a 60 degree angle. (Unfortunately the flash blocked the numbers on my protractor)


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...












Another plan.


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## willmego (Mar 27, 2008)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


oh, I know in "olden" days in england they used a small plane in a scratch stock sort of way to make arrow shafts, is that sort of what you're trying to get to, but perhaps bigger? If I can find a link to one, I'll post it.


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


Once again, Canadianchips, this is very interesting information and the pictures you posted on the forum thread also shows that the blade is pretty much radial to the cone so all hope is not lost with this first prototype.

@Will Mego : Yes I think we are talking about the same thing, all pictures welcome.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


I follow closely, but have no advice.
Thank you.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


Instead of cutting the blade at an angle, why not secure it at an angle; you would not loss "precious" metal.

I wouldn't cut the blade just to experiment the best angle.


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## willmego (Mar 27, 2008)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


no, actually, we're not talking about the same thing, this is a very small handplane where after securing a length of straight grained wood (remember, arrows, pretty narrow) to a bench, the plane is dragged along it's length and essentially cuts/scratches the stock half round. The process is repeated on the other side. Clearly, the english made, lets say, SEVERAL arrows, so it must have worked at least alright. Only found pictures which show how small it is, not the cutter itself so far…but I SAW this thing being used someplace weird, like 30 seconds related to some movie…driving me nuts, so I NEED to find it now.


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## willmego (Mar 27, 2008)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


Arrow Shaft Plane http://www.3riversarchery.com/images/large/5600.jpg


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *The blade*
> 
> I am back with a new update which brings us to the current state of the project.
> First of all, thanks to everyone who shared their interest on this experiment.
> ...


@WillMego : I see, this is indeed another beast altogether.
@Sylvain : I can't contradict you on this. My only excuse is that I need to have the blade angle not too far off the target as my adjustment is limited on each side by the 4 screws which will hold the blade holder and fasten the blade.


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

*Tool making gone fractal + finishing the blade holder*

If I ever succeed in making a usable rounding plane, it will be a tool to be used with a tool to make a tool.
The rounding plane makes a dowel, which is used with a wood die to shape a thread in order to make a clamp such as these http://lumberjocks.com/projects/49549

Then it got convoluted when I realized that I needed yet another tool to be able to recess the blade into the blade holder somewhat accurately.
As I do not own a router plane and as I did not wish to use my electric router, my only resort was to make a tool to make a tool to be used with a tool to make a tool.

I did not follow any conscious plan in making this but I am pretty sure I did not invent anything there.

Started by planing a 45 degree bevel on a scrap piece of wood :










I considered re-sawing the whole length close to the line to save some planing but I am glad I did not, it would probably have been longer to saw than to plane. I don't think it took me even 2 minutes to jack plane the bevel down to this state :










This will serve as both the handle and the blade support.
Next I glued a Baltic birch plywood sole beneath the first part :










While the glue set, I took the opportunity to sharpen a couple of chisels I had bought from ebay as the smaller one would be used in this makeshift router plane.

Finally, I just screwed a simple holder for the chisel and the finished result looked like this :










I can put decent pressure on the chisel (enough to hold it in place during use) but it is just enough friction to let me adjust the blade depth with light hammer touches. Obviously wood screws are not the best hardware to use but it will serve for today and I will probably replace them with bolts at a later time if I happen to use this tool often.

Now for its first try, I used it to rout a wide and shallow groove on the rounding plane's blade holder :










All in all, it performed decently. I could not take huge bites at a time but that was the plan all along anyway as I needed to check every time against the actual blade. Eventually, I could get to the point where only a saw kerf high section of the blade would to come out of the recess.
(If I had gone too deep, I could always have shimmed my way back to the proper height but the need did not come up)

And here is the finished blade holder :










If someone is interested in making a similar makeshift router plane, I found 2 points which made my life easier :

Defining the edges of the dado with my tenon saw. This really helped in not getting tearout (except when I slipped in the first 2 passes)
Resting one of my thumbs on the blade below the holder while planing. This significantly reduced chatter and made for smoother a surface. The chisel blade holder is rather high so the blade is not as well supported as it should.

This is it for today. Next post will be about test running this first rounding plane prototype.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

llwynog said:


> *Tool making gone fractal + finishing the blade holder*
> 
> If I ever succeed in making a usable rounding plane, it will be a tool to be used with a tool to make a tool.
> The rounding plane makes a dowel, which is used with a wood die to shape a thread in order to make a clamp such as these http://lumberjocks.com/projects/49549
> ...


I think this is a wonderful idea, to make a router plane out of a chisel.
And I love your way to invent your way out of the situation, this is what makes woodworking really fun I think.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *Tool making gone fractal + finishing the blade holder*
> 
> If I ever succeed in making a usable rounding plane, it will be a tool to be used with a tool to make a tool.
> The rounding plane makes a dowel, which is used with a wood die to shape a thread in order to make a clamp such as these http://lumberjocks.com/projects/49549
> ...












Nice inventive idea. IF I may add, I would cut a groove the width of chisel on the main piece, this will help keep the chisel firmer, you may not have to tighten screws as much. I too would use bolts with a wing nut to hold chisel in place (no need to look for screwdriver to make adjustment)


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *Tool making gone fractal + finishing the blade holder*
> 
> If I ever succeed in making a usable rounding plane, it will be a tool to be used with a tool to make a tool.
> The rounding plane makes a dowel, which is used with a wood die to shape a thread in order to make a clamp such as these http://lumberjocks.com/projects/49549
> ...


Thank you.
Yes, thumbscrews/wing nuts are a definite upgrades I've been thinking of as soon as I proved that the concept was working.
As for the groove, I considered it first but I temporarily dismissed the idea for now as I wanted to keep open the possibility to change for a different chisel or a dedicated blade at a later time.
For the time being, I did not notice any lateral play in use.

All in all, very decent results and fully usable for something that was slapped together in a few minutes.m


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

*Test run with first prototype*

Now that the first prototype is finished, here are the results of the test run:










Adjusting the blade itself was easy enough : just tapping the blade a little at a time until it cut enough for the finished dowel to go through the exit hole.

I also had a little tweaking to do on the body for the blade to cut properly: I used a small rounding plane and some files to straighten the cone shape (remember how it was slightly crooked at the junction between the cone and the exit hole?). I also adjusted the blade holder to improve as much as I could the escapement of shavings.

Now for the actual result, it is, as I had started to expect since I first clamped a blade on the unfinished tool, somewhat disappointing. 
Here is a close up of the resulting surface and you can see how ragged it came out:










In addition to the poor cut quality, shavings also kept jamming themselves either under the blade or between the blade and the holder. I had to back up the tool to clear out the shavings every so often.

Everything is not lost though as this 1st prototype got me thinking and I hope that the next iteration, whenever I find the time to work on it, should have all the more chances to perform properly.

The modification I intent to make on the next prototype are:


Blade position. As suggested by Thomas and as one can observe from a regular pen sharpener, I will definitely try to place the blade in a more tangential position. The blade is currently too close to being radial. For this prototype, I used the plan from an old Fine Woodworking magazine article (Fine Woodworking #8 or so) and either the drawing was wrong or I did not understand it properly. The more I look at it, the more the blade position looks wrong. 
Geometry and angles. I will use the cone geometry that canadianchips kindly measured on his own tool.
Blade holder. I will probably loose the blade holder completely, moving from a bevel down configuration to a bevel up configuration for the blade in the process. The blade holder proved to be a hassle, and it keeps trapping shavings that jam the tool. I can easily hold the blade in place with 2 screws and some large washers as the blade has slots cut in. Also, both canadianchips' tool and Ray Iles rounder (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-IROUND.XX&Category_Code=CRI ) do not feature any blade holder and do not appear to be any worse for it.
Body material. The next iteration will not have a platanus/plane tree body but a beech one. Why? simply because I don't have any more platanus wood and have been given a block of beech that could be used 

Thank you everyone who wrote me with encouraging comments.

Until next time,


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *Test run with first prototype*
> 
> Now that the first prototype is finished, here are the results of the test run:
> 
> ...


Mets ta lame plus haut, et quasiment tangente au barreau, j'ai eu d'excellents résultats avec un truc vite bricolé du même genre en utilisant un ciseau à bois en guise de lame 

Intl version: change the blade height and angle, I had great results with a quick-made jig with a chisel, blablabla.


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

llwynog said:


> *Test run with first prototype*
> 
> Now that the first prototype is finished, here are the results of the test run:
> 
> ...


AND put the blade to an angle! like so:


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## gavinzagreb (Jan 19, 2012)

llwynog said:


> *Test run with first prototype*
> 
> Now that the first prototype is finished, here are the results of the test run:
> 
> ...


Yep, you need to angle the blade more.
I made a prototype drumstick from masaranduba the other day and made the type of dowel maker you can see in this link, in less than 30 minutes. Worked great !

http://woodgears.ca/dowel/making.html


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## llwynog (May 5, 2011)

llwynog said:


> *Test run with first prototype*
> 
> Now that the first prototype is finished, here are the results of the test run:
> 
> ...


We all seem to agree on this.


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