# Any thoughts on using Titebond lll for bent laminations?



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I would like to try some bent lamination work, but I want to keep life simple for the time being, so I wonder how wellTitebond lll would suit the purpose. I am aware that there are different alternatives such as epoxy and other types of 'mix' glues, but I'm not sure if they can be purchased here in small affordable quantities. I realize that TB lll will leave a dark glue line on light woods. Another alternative 'easy to get' glue for me would be poyurethane, so if you have any experience with either I will appreciate your advice whether you have had good or bad experience with either of them.

I can get West System epoxy, but it costs about $100 for a fairly small amount. I would consider it though for high value projects.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Mike
Another alternative is white glue it drys clear and dries some what slower.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

TB III works great for bent lamination. They claim the open time is 10 minutes (double the open time of TB II).

I'm sure I have never used the full 10 minutes, but with that much open time you don't have to rush as much to get clamps in place or get everything set in a vacuum press.

One word of advice - - Use relatively fresh glue. If it has been on the shelf for a year or so after the bottle was opened, it looses much of its strength. Learned that one the hard way.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Mike 
Sorry I missed the point the glue you were asking about was for bent lamination's. I have used resin glue it has a long open time and dries hard. A fellow that LJs a while ago that specializes in bent lamination's said he bought Rue glue in 55 gallon drums an said it was great.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

For bent lamination I recommend you only use urea glues (Unibond 800 for example) or west systems epoxy or other brand of epoxy glues for laminating. The reason is that these types of glue virtually eliminate any spring back and also do not have glue creep. These glues are the industry standard.


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## BritBoxmaker (Feb 1, 2010)

Mike I've always had good results with ordinary white PVA glue, dries transparent.


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

Mike, if you look in my projects, you will see a bent lamination that I did with Gorilla glue. The glue lines sanded out and it has been used outdoors as a plant stand for several seasons. It still looks and works fine but is beginning to show some weathering since I made it out of construction lumber. I just wanted to use it as a prototype since I had never done a bent lamination before but "the boss" was happy with it so who am I to argue with her (I would lose anyway).


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

As far as holding, the Titebond III will do fine. The epoxy can be had for much less than $100 and it doesn't take that much. I love System Three Gel Magic. They also sell it in a caulking tube type container that mixes while you squeeze and can get it for $18/US tube. Cool stuff. Besides, you should do fine getting glues. You are in Norway. They build boats there. 

One more variable, you will actually have more time to get stuff set up and clamped with epoxy than you will have with Titebond III. Get a complex lamination going and that can be a real selling point. That stuff can get *really slippery.*

As far as the expense, measure it out. By the ounce, Polyurethane glues are generally more expensive than epoxy.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks for the help everyone. I see that I have some alternatives for immediate use and I will also do some research to see what else I can get over here. Meanwhile I want to give the TB lll a try as well, especially since Rich has had good luck with it. I'm not sure yet how much of this I will be doing. A lot of bent lamination is done here in Scandinavia for furniture and big outdoor projects too. So I assume they have the right types of glues here, but what I have to find out is whether they are available in the small quantities I would need. I don't plan to build anything large unless there is a very substantial rise in sea levels.

I did a little experimental glue-up today just for fun using 1/32" thick X 1" wide pine strips and white PVA. I'm still not sure what I will be using bent laminations to build, but I've always found the technique fascinating and thought I should give it a go.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Anything wrong with the plain old white PVA glue?


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## woodspark (May 8, 2010)

Laminations done with PVA has a tendency to move after remove gradually after removal from the form, due to glue creep. I would only use PVA on bends with mimimal stress loading and are quick to assemble. As John Ormsby correctly states, all urea glues are good. Polyurethanes like Gorilla is excellent. We use urethanes all the time on a line of laminated chairs. Is cheaper for us than epoxy and gives us more working time wbich is important.( It is normally quite hot here, ambient temperature has huge effect on epoxy's open time). Off course epoxy is also good for laminating.

If you want bulletproof, resorcinol is the best in my opinion. Downfall is dark glue line and it is a finicky glue with regards to temperature, clamping pressure, surface prep etc. Used it extensively when I was in the boatbuiding game.

Laminating is fun. Enjoy!!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks Div.


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## woodspark (May 8, 2010)

No problem, Mike. I do a lot of laminating, you are always welcome to PM me if you have specific queries.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

hey mike…im feeling like a bent lamination today…what kind of glue should i use…or should i stand outside in the southern humidity and let is steam me back to a straight lamination…...lol….....i like a1jims suggestion…what are you going to glue up…...i can hear the wheels turning over there…....


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

What suggestion Grizz, the Rue glue? Maybe Larry, aka degoose, could send us some from down under? That is the only place I know that has rues)


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## Edziu (Jan 17, 2010)

From personal experience and from the experience from colleagues, the unanimous decision is epoxy; I'm partial to West Systems. Let me go through some of the options and why I've stopped using them or have been told not to use them for bent lam-o's.

1. Yellow glue (TB 1,2,3) as it's been mentioned, glue creep and spring back- bad news. I have a piece of furniture that's about three years old and it's starting to show a little creep. I'm not happy. Also, relatively slow open time. When you use the yellow glue for bent lam-o's, you have to work very quickly and the yellow glue does not allow the lam-o's to slide past each other which they will want to to, as the outside of the curve is longer than the inside.

2. Urea-formaldehyde (Unibond) Works well, decent open time. I had a friend use this and it did not go well however due to the unibond being slightly old, like a year. We've sworn it off since then and won't go back.

3. Epoxy (West Systems) Long open time, very long. You can add fillers for porous woods. The epoxy is good for a really long time (shelf life) It acts as a lubricant and lets things slide very well, this goes for joints like mortise and tenon where yellow glue would make things swell up and get sticky. Much less spring back. Get the pumps for it, and you can make just what you need, when you need it. There are lots of hardeners available, 205, 206, 207. These depend on your temperature and desired open time. Refer to their website for which one is good for you. If I were buying a set today I'd get the 105 Resin, the Slow hardener, and a container of cotton micro-fibers and a set of pumps, BUY THE PUMPS!!!! In the group A size, this would cost you about $90. Get the Group B size and you're looking at like $160. It's not just good for bent lam-o's, its for all woodworking.


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## benjireyes (Dec 21, 2009)

Hi Mike, I use white glue for all my laminations. The first glue application is thinned down with water to get the proper viscosity to penetrate the pores ( depending on what specie) This way, I not only get the surface of the wood to adhere but a 16th to a quarter of an inch deeper to hold onto. I let this sit until it comes to the same consistency as it's original state then do a final application ( actual mix) before I clamp the components together. It usually takes 2 weeks to cure in wet and 4 days in dry weather here in the Philippines. I hope this helps my friend!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Lots of conflicting info here and surprisingly from experienced professional woodworkers whose work I've seen and have high respect for. I am quite sure that each glue recommended works for that persons applications.It does seem from the comments that the particular use of the lamination might impact somewhat on what would be the most acceptable glue in any given situation. I can understand that someone doing a lot of laminating would use their best alternative regardless because they have it on hand, are used to it, and they know they will get consistent results.

My goal here is to ease into this starting with some relatively small projects. I think the way to go here is to try out everyone's favorite as I progress into more demanding bends and heavier loading on them. This will give me a feel for the different problems that can arise such as slippage, curing time, strength, etc. I'm still not sure how much of this I will be doing. I guess it depends on my coming up with some worthwhile projects.

I really do appreciate all the knowledgeable replies here from profs and hobbyists, and rest assured I have taken ALL of them onboard. So a big thank you for this wealth of info. I see that several people have favorited this post so they to can also get the benefit of your expertise.


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## BritBoxmaker (Feb 1, 2010)

Mike, you're right, there is nothing like experimenting and experiencing it for yourself.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

Urea glues have a 6 month shelf life. However, experiments have shown it can be lengthened buy storing the glue in the freezer. Up to two years shelf life if done this way. Any glue has a shelf life and will eventually go bad.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

So right Martyn. Hi John, I lived in N. Sacramento, Fitch way or Drive as I remember very near Fair Oaks (1952-1957) and I went to El Camino High school nearby.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

Hi Mike,
Really interesting post.
I have only tryed laminating 10 years ago, I used white glue, and it was a 3 layer piece af app. a meter long, when I let it out of the hold, it jumped app. 1 cm back. Since it was not important for the project I was happy.
Rememper lots of clamps…
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks Mads. I do understand that the white glue can move some over time, and while I'm sure that is true, it could probably still be used on a lot of projects where this doesn't matter. I find that the big problem with glues more appropriate for laminating is how messy they are. White PVA and Titebond are easy to use and clean up with water. The others get all over just about everything when an inexperienced person like myself uses them.


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

When you remove a lamination from the form, it'll tend to spring back and straighten out a little, regardless of the glue you use. I've seen formula's in FWW magazine to calculate how much it'll spring back. It depends on quantity and thickness of laminations, as well as the radius your bending to.


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## CanadianWoodWorks (Dec 29, 2009)

I have used titebond III for walnut, Leevalley gf202 for cherry and standard yellow for maple.

I use it for band back braces that are 2.29mm think 4 layers and the rockers are 9 strips of 1/8''

I have not noticed a difference in spring back or glue creep with any of the combos

This is for a rocking chair


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all the tips and also to you Paul. I have wanted to use TB lll because it has a fairly long open time and it is easy (read not messy) to work with and cleans up easy. I used some polyurethane glue on a recent project just for fun. Well, it wasn't fun at all. I felt like an insect caught on flypaper. I do realize that the TB lll will leave a dark line on light wood, so I will probably use epoxy in that case.


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