# polyurethane is cloudy



## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi all,

My wife has a buffet she refinished and is having a problem with it. any help would be greatly appreciated…
My wife wrote:
I painted a buffet with Rustoleum Painters Touch in the spray can. The color is Satin Black. I also hand painted designs with latex acrylic paint over the black. The paint job came out great.. no streaks, etc. After one week I used Minwax fast drying polyurethane in the spray can, in the clear satin finish. I chose this rather than the polycrylic because I wasn't worried about it turning amber since the paint is black, considering the cost of the polycrylic.. I followed the directions about shaking and applying thin coats every two hours. When I checked on the item the next day I saw the entire buffet looks like it's extremely dusty, or a dull cloudy gray color over the paint. The "cloudiness" is uniform all over except the top has a couple areas that look streaked, not cloudy, but clear black. Now I'm panicking; I have no idea what to do. Is it ruined? If I spray over the
satin poly with semi-gloss will it turn black again or will I just have a shiny cloudy gray finish then? Should I use the satin again but put the can closer? I'm thinking maybe that's how I got the black parts on top. Must I sand the whole buffet? Because of the delicate hand painting, which took 2 weeks, I think sanding would be impossible.

Would Minwax poly in a can fix this? If so, what do I do, brush or wipe on? I've never done that before either. Please help me!!


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Poly is a beautiful finish but hard to work with. All I can think of is that either the humidity was so high that perhaps you had some moisture over the project when you applied the poly. Or perhaps there was some moisture in the line of your compressor that worked itself into the poly spray container. Here is what I would do: Get a scrap board and paint it black as you did your table and apply the poly on it and let it dry. Hopefully you get the same result. If applying can poly does not clear it up, try sanding it with 400 wet sand paper; just a few rubs to turn the water milky white. Then go to 600 and do the same. Try applying can poly using sponge brush (maybe a 4" one). Dip the brush 1-1/2" into the poly and evenly and slowly go along the grain of your work. If there is not enough poly on your brush and you see dry spots, give it another dip and finish your first stroke. then go back and run your brush evenly over the whole thing with one slow movement over the entire row. The next row should overlap the first one slightly. The process has to be done fairly quick but not too fast as it might create bubbles.

Best of luck


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thank you so much for replying, I really appreciate it. I did wait until there was a day with no humidity in the air, since I did it in my garage. My husband also set up a large fan to draw out. What I used though was the poly in the aerosol can, not a compressor. Could it be that I just didn't apply enough coats of the aerosol? As I said, there was a couple of areas that did come out clear black on the top, which I thought occurred because I accidently held the aerosol can closer, so the poly was thicker in those swipes across. Yesterday my hubby very lightly scuffed the back of the door of the buffet that had the same cloudiness result but the paint was immediately scuffed too. So I don't want to take a chance with any light sanding at all for fear of ruining the decorative designs I painted over the black paint. I have read that many people said going with the satin finish can cause these problems. I am willing to change the sheen if it would help in any way.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Without photos or a face-to-face look, this one is hard to diagnose. My first instinct would be to rub the current finish smooth with 0000 steel wool, then try a coat of gloss wipe-on poly to see what happens.

My initial thought reading the post was that the poly had partially dissolved the paint, creating a muddy look. If that is the case, the finish is toast. But I don't really know if that's the case. At any rate, smoothing the surface and wiping on another coat couldn't hurt. If a coat of gloss brings the clarity back, she can tone down the glass level (if she desires) with another coat of satin.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

After reading what you just posted…. another thought I had was that the surface was just not adequately coated. Since you say a light scuffing immediately scuffed the paint, maybe there is something to that. Spraying finish is a triicky business. The surface needs to be uniformly wet, without being wet enough to run. That's not always easy. Wipe-on poly takes a little more work, but it's pretty foolproof.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I suspect your "thin" coats are perhaps too thin, which what is refered to as dry , this can cause a dusty clowdy look, because the coats were not heavy enough to "flow" smooth , I agree a good photo would be a huge help


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Poly and acrylic don't mix. I have a beautiful spalted maple bowl that I sprayed with acrylic, then decided to poly. It all went cloudy and basically ruined the bowl.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Russell what did you use, I would like to experiment with this some if you would tell me please sir ?


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Charles, after turning the shop upside down, I found the can. It was a lacquer, not an acrylic. Watco clear lacquer spray can. I forgot I used it on my bowl and later used a poly. The whole thing turned milky.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Russell just as an experiment try wiping it with some lacquer thinner , just a quick wet wipe ,not alot, often it will pull the blush out ,or you can spray it with a quick wet coat of lacquer. Lacquer is not very compatable with poly unless its water base, then its a little more tolerant, thus the fast wet spray, again often it will clear it .


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

these are the pics….my wife sprayed 3 or 4 coats (thin coats) and held the can about 12" from
table…The can said to do it that way so she did…...
As you can see the red paint is on texture wall paper….


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

When you wipe that with a dry towel, does stuff come off on the towel?


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

It looks "DRY" , meaning the coats were not applied wet enough.


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

no nothing comes off if you wipe it….I know that it looks like it would but it dosent…

If it is the point that she did not put on coats wet enough can we go back and apply more coats ???


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

yes , get some 600 grit sand paper, (lowes, Autobody supply) give it a light sand go easy just to smooth, do not cut thru the paint, ( nice work BTW) and apply a wet coat, here is a video I did, 



 some where in it, I show applying a lacquer with a spray can, note the "wet " coat , basically a gloss has to follow the gun, ( in your case the can) , PM sent with email will help if I can

Note: the lacquer cannot be used over the poly, this is just to show you how to "wet the finish" , I am assuming the poly is an oil base,


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Boy, you sure make it look easy, Mr. Neil. Now I see what you mean about a wet coat; I think my spray was dry immediately after each swipe across. Here's what is probably a really dumb question….what is lacquer? I used the Minwax fast drying poly in the gold can, satin. I liked how the Deft you used seemed to spray out more "solid" or "strong". Can I switch to the Deft, spray it over the Minwax? If so, is it stinkier than the Minwax? Will it dry as fast, so I can recoat pretty fast? May I have your opinion of the Minwax one? (thank you for your compliment, the floral is actually a dark maroon color). Chrys


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Yes, the poly is the oil base one.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

CharlesNeil, thanks I will try that. Between the blushing and it being just a bit wobbly I decided to just keep it around the house, but I'd like to sell it if I could. It's very difficult to sand spalted maple I've found, really can see the tiniest scratch.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

What does it look like if you really wet wipe with mineral spirit? If it all looks crystal clear you could save it with more finish, if it's still cloudy, refinish.


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## kizerpea (Dec 2, 2011)

the satin in the black is what looks cloudy….I thing sanding is the only way out…next time use a flat black for your color, hand paint your other colors ..the clear the hole thing..just my 2 cts..deft is better for me..drys faster than minwax poly


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## floyd1365 (May 5, 2013)

a good rule to follow for future projects is to stay with one maker through the whole finish process. formulas are different and sometimes solvents don't mix well.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

no you cant switch to the lacquer now, it will possibly "lift" the poly, lifting means it will wrinkle up like a prune

Lacquer is a finish that has been around for many years, its not as durable as the poly , but close, it does smell a bit worse and you want plenty of ventilatioon and wear a respirator, ( also with the poly)

I would give a small area the 600 light scuff and spray a wet coat and see if it clears , it should


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

That's a mighty nice project for a rattle can finish. I don't believe you're going to get as good of a coating as you would with a proper sprayer. The spray comes out too little and too narrow, which is great for smaller projects.

If you haven't re coated it yet, I would like to suggest buying a decent HVLP sprayer. Even the cheap plug in 49.95 sprayer would do a better job than a can. I have the Earlex sprayer from Woodcraft, and I love it.

You could have a pro finish it in his spray booth for about 300 bucks (wild guess) if you want it perfect. But I'll bet you could fix this, you're very talented!

lastly, be sure to stir the poly well or shake the can good for a minute.


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi,

Well I put a good coat on yesterday after scuffing with 600 grit sandpaper and it really turned out nice….

I am going to woodcraft and buy a scuffing pad and give the drawer front a try…
Thank you soo very much for all your help..I will post more pics after I get a 600 grit scuffing pad and let you know how it comes out…..
once again thank you !!


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi again

I was looking on woodcraft site and came across these 2 sprayers…

WoodRiver Pro HVLP Spray Gun with 600cc Plastic Cup 
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2021128/25126/woodriver-pro-hvlp-spray-gun-with-600cc-plastic-cup.aspx#ProdInformationTab

and this one…and yes I do have an air compressor

Earlex Spray Station 3500, Expert Control Spray Gun
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2080723/34070/earlex-spray-station-3500-expert-control-spray-gun.aspx
If I get one of the spray guns from woodcraft can I use the same poly from a quart can….(also fast drying..same stuff as spray can)
Will I have to dilute it or can it be sprayed as is…I have a can of semi gloss and it seems pretty thin already.(but want satin)....never used a spray gun before, but sure willing to try…

thank you


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

in the Earlex you want the 5500 turbine system .The Woodriver does well if you know how to use a spray gun. You can usually spray these products as is. However spray guns require some education and practice . The Earlex 3500 just doesnt have enough power in my opinion, the 5500 is much better unit .

Oil based polys are also one of the hardest finishes to deal with, they dry slower , thus more inclined to have runs and debris issues. A good Water base product top coat would have less issues and be more user friendly , not to mention alot less hazards. 
There are also many hand applied option's available that give excellent finishes.


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thank you so much Reedwood. I got many prices on having someone paint and finish this for me first. There was no way I could afford it considering how much I had to pay for the carvings, etc. to get the look I wanted, so I figured I'd give it a shot. I do think this will be the first and last time I ever do this again….lol. My hubby is looking at the sprayers on the Woodcraft site. Would the WoodRiver Item #149388 be okay? The Earlex for the same price has no reviews, but this one does. Yes, I do think hubby did a great job on the door back thanks to you Mr. Neil. 
Sorry for the double posts on the sprayers…I didn't know Dave was on his laptop typing the same time I was…lol.


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

thank you CharlesNeil…I was kind of looking for the 49.00 one that reedwood was talking about….
I have a few cans of the same poly that has already been sprayed on..But thought if it would be much better for me to use a spray gun then I could buy a quart can of the same poly that is already on there…minwax fast drying clear satin….But we really cant afford to go buy a spray station that we may only use 1 time…


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

If you already have a compressor I would suggest the HVLP spray gun from Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html

With coupons you can get it for as low as $9.99 and it works great! Even if you pay full price and only use it the one time it paid for itself.


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

That's kind of funny because I actually have one…(from H.F.) I just haven't tried it yet and thought maybe it was too cheap to try out on my wife's project….So that is why I considered buying one from woodcraft…..
I will get some of the same poly I have been using in the quart can and play with it awhile and see how it does….
I have a piece of wood already painted with her black paint so I can mess around with that first and see how it goes. Thanks for bringing that particular one up…


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

I really love my HVLP from HF. Might not be worth setting up for small items unless you have a few to do, but it's great for larger items. Just practice with it before trying on your table. I use water or mineral spirits on a piece of old ply, cardboard or drywall.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Mitch from what I've heard the woodcraft and HF guns are about the same. I use a HF and if works fine. Any gun you use you need to practice on scrap or cardboard before trying it on a project. If you want to learn about finishing Charles Neil has a on line Finishing school . You can save a lot by learning how to finish right in the first place.The class has it's own forum just for finishing that Charles will answer any questions you have on finishing in a timely manner.


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi,

Thank you for all the info on the H.F. spray gun…..I will play with it today and see how it goes….....
Yes I have seen a few v7deos by Charles Neil….They are very good….

my car gets out of the shop today so I can get the rest of the stuff I need.Rain and cold yesterday so didn't ride bike….....I will let vou know how H.F.gun works for me…..........


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## mitch48093 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hello,

Well we finally got finished with buffet….Thank you soo much for all the help. It turned out very nice

and everything this forum recommended was very helpful…So I thought I would post a couple pics of the
finished project…I don't have the back on it yet but here are some pics…Thank you very much once again…


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Looks great, nice work


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## drumstud4u (Sep 27, 2013)

A tip I learned that has worked well for me is multiple coats of poly (I use wipe-on with a foam roller which I prefer over a cloth) sanding lightly in between with 600 to 1000 grit wet/dry paper and the way to get a really beautiful shine is after the final clear coat, let it cure at least 48 hrs, sand with 2000 grit until there are no shiny spots then apply rubbing compound (I use Maguire's X20 scratch and blemish remover) and buff it out and POW!
here comes that showroom finish…this has worked well for me doing custom finishes on drumsets and guitars where flashiness is a key factor. I've had nothing but positive feedback from my clients, so until I find a better way, this is my method. Hope this helps…good luck!


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## mariaz (Oct 10, 2013)

to mitch48093, love the way your buffet came out. Can you please tell me what you did that was able to fix the haze.
Similar problem only I did not use spray, just plain poly, and I seem to be making it worse.
thanks.


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