# Festool CMS Router Table, A lot of money, a lot of design issues



## Tedstor

$1600 will buy a pretty nice shaper AND some cutters.

Thanks for the review.


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## lj61673

I'm really having a real hard time tying to figure out what the target audience for this product is. Maybe someone can enlighten me. 
There are dozens of larger heavier more stable commercial router tables out there for less than half the price.
Looks like a tough sell to me….


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## MJCD

Festool seems to target the high-end construction - jobsite market - if there is such a thing; though, I'm not privy to what they were thinking here (or anywhere, for that matter) - one of their underlying mantras is portability. I'm sure it will go over huge with their Faithful. I own several Festool products - the Domino is superb, and their track system is highly functional.

I was hoping for more in their RT: I'm interested in a sliding table, engineered-in safety, rock-solid construction, and anything which allows us woodworkers to concentrate on the work, rather than the equipment. IMO the CMS has too small a table, continues their 'stationary' approach of spindly legs, and doesn't deliver enough for the purchase price.

MJCD


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## chriswright

It is a very portable system and it can be used with the legs folded on a bench as well. So the job site market would love it, but there are many table top models that are far less expensive that are just as portable.


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## NiteWalker

Most likely for those who are already high on the festool koolaid.

Disclaimer: I do want a domino. Badly.


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## Domer

Interesting comments. The Wood Whisperer gave it pretty high marks. I have not seen it in person as yet but am looking forward to seeing it in person.

Domer


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## RayWWW

If you haven't used the CMS router table you would be in for a pleasant surprise. It is high quality and has a lot of positive features. Although, the forensic analysis in the review (which must have required a lot of time and effort) does identifies a lot of good issues. Likely, it is only worth the money if you want it.

Disclaimer: I own and have used the CMS


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## scarpenter002

Thanks for the write up Chris. Even after watching the Wood Whisperer's review of the CMS, I could not understand why I would ever want to buy one, and this review confirms my opinion. I am sold on some of their products, like the TS55, but this is not one of them.


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## JGM0658

I think a sliding router table is a terrific idea, but at $1600 it should come with something better than folding chair legs. This is no big deal, you can make a sturdier base, my problem is being locked into the Festool system. There is no way I am going to pony up for one of their routers, my Bosch and DeWalt do just fine at a fraction of the price. If I could use just any router I would consider it, since it seems a great tool for on site work.


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## Mip

I have not used it or have seen it in stores set up on the floor, but when I look at the bar for the hold down and featherboard system sticking out from the fence, I just think that they would be in the way. Also, when you have to use the festool brand of routers with this table, I don't see one in my shop any time soon. You can buy a better router table for less money; heck you can build one better than this for a lot less money.


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## Viktor

"$1600 will buy a pretty nice shaper AND some cutters" 
Yes, but it will be difficult to drag around your job site. It's the same as saying that for the cost of high end backpacking tent you could get much sturdier plywood shed from Home Depot. Festool *does not *compete with dedicated shop based stand alone tools.

You must keep in mind that CMS module is designed for professionals who do *interior work on site *or woodworkers with limited space (hence the size and "wobbliness"). You can get this module from your van and set up in minutes. Does your time cost anything? Pop that router in and out for freehand use with *the same router*, convert it to table saw or stick jigsaw or belt sander in, all in no time. Can you convert your shaper into table saw (a good one, mind you) while on site? Any savings there? Top it with *furniture grade cuts*. And at the end of the day you leave your customer's home spotless. How much does that cost?

Having said that the feather board is awkward and the fence micro adjustment (or lack of thereof for the entire fence) and bit changes leave a lot to be desired.


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## JGM0658

I do work on site and would not get one. Here is a pic of my router table, which I do bring on site. What the pic does not show is the added Woodpecker lift.










Now mind, this table is rock steady, it comes apart and together probably a bit slower than the CMS but it is way better built.

Does it convert into a TS, no but then if I am stuck with the Festool system I can get a nice Bosch contractor's saw for a lot less. I am guessing this table is to be used with the plunge saw, so lets see, $1600 for the CMS, $500 for the router and and $550 for the "cheap" plunge saw, that is $2600. Way too much, specially for something with flimsy legs like the CMS.


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## Tedstor

"$1600 will buy a pretty nice shaper AND some cutters"

"Yes, but it will be difficult to drag around your job site. It's the same as saying that for the cost of high end backpacking tent you could get…......"

Indeed. But I find it curious that Grizzly or Jet can sell a heavy-duty, cast iron shaper for $600 less than Festool can sell folding router table….... Albeit, its a pretty nice folding router table.


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## Viktor

"But I find it curious that Grizzly or Jet can sell a heavy-duty, cast iron shaper for $600 less than Festool can sell folding router table……. " 
- Just because it is heavy does not mean it is hard to make. Cast iron is cheap, skilled labor and good engineering are expensive.


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## Everett1

Grizz and Jet can charge that because it's Taiwanese making it. I assume this is made in Germany like they're other stuff? Paying to have German build it cost a lot more.


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## chriswright

Excalibur has a nice full size router table with a cast iron top. Whole thing, table, lift, stand, fence and dust collection is just over $1000 and that's made in Canada.


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## Ken90712

I have to agree, Nice write up. While The green machines are nice they are over prived and I thought this table was really bad. My homemade one is more solid and performs just as well. I looked at the 6 in orbital sander along with the Bosch sander at the woodworking show in Vegas. The Bosch was alot better and cheeper in my humble opinon.


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## chriswright

I'd have to say, if money wasn't an option, the Festool tools I'd buy are the Domino, the DF 500 (no need for the XL with what I do), the RO 150 sander and one of the plunge saws (either the 55 or 75). After that, not many that I'd choose over the less expensive competitors.


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## Viktor

"I'd have to say, if money wasn't an option, the Festool tools I'd buy are the Domino, the DF 500 (no need for the XL with what I do), the RO 150 sander and one of the plunge saws (either the 55 or 75). After that, not many that I'd choose over the less expensive competitors."

- Chris, I agree with that. May be throw in a router. But that is just ME for what I do.

"While The green machines are nice they are overpriced"

- Well, race cars are also overpriced when you drive one to the grocery store, but if you are in a race with other drivers they are money makers. DIYs concern themselves mostly with tool cost and few technical aspects without much consideration for ergonomics, work flow and logistics. I too have homemade router table which works great and is cheap if you ignore the build in X hours at $Y/hour. I mean I can set it up very accurately after some fiddling ($Z/minute) and occasional test cut ($N/wasted boardfoot). Hey, I'm just having fun! But this is not efficient way to spend time for a pro.
The green machines as well as other systems (mostly European) where tools are top notch, versatile and work together, let professionals concentrate on their job, rather than on making jigs, cobbling up dust collection from duct tape, and cleaning mess.
In cabinetry business and some other types of woodworking cost of tools are peanuts comparing to labor and materials. When a well engineered system like Festool allows you to boost your productivity even few percent, it pays for itself in couple jobs.


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## slopjock78

My dad is an experience carpenter of over 40 years. he is at the point in his life now where he can basically ask what he likes for a given job and he stays as busy as he wants to at 65 years of age. he works exclusively on stairs in high end multi-million dollar homes. So needless to say, he knows his stuff, and is around other carpenters that know their stuff very well. i asked him the other day if he knows anything about festool tools. he just laughed. he said "oh yeah, they make great tools. But who can afford them?" he can do work that gets the highest compliments from the most critical contractors and home owners, using dewalt, bosch and milwaukee tools at 1/2 to 1/3 the price. My parents raised a family of 10 with my mom at home full time. try telling my parents the "cost of tools are peanuts"

Does festool make top notch tools? no questions asked. But to me, it seems people who defend these tools and mock those who dont see the value in them simply enjoy saying they have "the best tools money can buy." i hope to one day be able to own a couple of festools, especially a ROS and possibly the domino. I appreciate EVERYONE having the ability to voice their opinion on every conceivable topic, including woodworking and tools. but please dont mock me if i dont see the value in EVERY tool that says festool on the box.


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## SHO

I've been watching this article and its comments. I feel compelled to chime in…

The people who are most critical of Festool, and particularly the prices, have never used one. I'd challenge those who are critical of our tools to try one before passing judgment. We have a 30-day no-risk money back guarantee. Get a tool of your choice, use the heck out of it for up to a month, and if you don't like it go get a refund. Worst case, you get to use some of the best tools available free for a month. What do you have to lose other than having to come back and say you were wrong and they are worth the price after all. And, to really experience the full advantages you need to use the tool with our dust extractor.

Those who have given them a try generally have very positive experiences and continue to invest in our tools because of their ability to increase productivity, quality of work, and reduce clean up time significantly.

Don't take my word for it. And, surely don't take the word of those who have never even flipped a Festool on. Try it for yourself.

The CMS is a great router table and is designed to be portable. There are plenty of other good router tables out there that weigh a lot and don't offer some of the advantages of the CMS. A professional must decide what makes the most sense for them based on their requirements.

We focus on making tools that help you elevate your craft and be more successful, regardless of what it costs to make them. We manufacture our tools in Germany and have very strict quality requirements in our own factory. It's not outsourced or made in Asia. And, if you ever need help, Festool sets the standard for customer service in the industry.

Shane


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## waho6o9

" And, if you ever need help, Festool sets the standard for customer service in the industry."









The problem with the pad on my sander was handled professionally and was replaced
with a good will pad. The above statement, by Shane Holland, is correct. 
No BS was heard like, did you register your sander, do you have your receipt, what 
year was it made, etc. etc.
The BS I heard when my ridigid sander broke is laughable now, infuriating when it occured.
Thank you Festool!


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## Viktor

Slopjock78, with all due respect you completely missed my point. Regardless of what I own I'm not going to say Festool is overpriced just because I personally can't justify or afford some of their tools (which is actually the case). They are not luxury or status symbol items. For many people they are moneymakers worth every penny and then some, which actually cost less in the long run (see post above). If you think Festool is expensive try Mafell or Protool - mainstay of tradesmen in Germany. The proverb "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things" particularly applies to items you make living with because those give you competitive edge.
And yes, in cabinet fitting and such the cost of tools ARE peanuts *in comparison *with labor and materials. This is simple and easily verifiable economic fact.


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## mcase

Without a lot of partisan emotion: I own the Domino and a random orbit sander from Festool. The Domino had a number of quality control issues and ended up being returned. The second one had some of the same issues, but was usable. None of the issues involved the real guts of the machine which has held up fine (so far three or four years). So I'm not down on this company, but I don't buy into the superiority hype. The sander IS superior. Its better than any sander I have used. So they make some stuff that's worth the money no doubt, but not all of it. That little aluminum router table is a fine example of putting the Festool name on something and profiting from the hype. $1600 for that! You must be joking!


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## MarkDavisson

"Well, race cars are also overpriced when you drive one to the grocery store, but if you are in a race with other drivers they are money makers."

Viktor, I don't race with other drivers.

I tried the MFT with TS55 for a while at my nearest Woodcraft. They had one setup in the back and allowed me to put it through its paces. Chips on the floor? Clearly less than the uncaptured chips created by the system I ultimately chose - Eurekazone's EZ-One with a Makita 5008 8-1/4 inch. But you know what? There were chips on the table and chips on the floor. And I swept them up by hand. And it took me just as long to do that as it does to sweep up more chips after using my EZ-One, for which I paid significantly less.

I would pay more to get *no* chips. But I'm not going to pay more for *fewer* chips - there's no value in that for me.

"The people who are most critical of Festool, and particularly the prices, have never used one."

This attitude sickens me.


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## Viktor

"Viktor, I don't race with other drivers." 
- Then you don't need a race car, which does not mean race cars are overpriced.

"... EZ-One, for which I paid significantly less" 
- Mark, I must be missing something, but I just look at their site and EZ-One Power bench costs $1,195.00! Which is more than MFT and TS55 combined. So let's just agree good tools are pricy.


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## MarkDavisson

Viktor, you used the term "pricy." In an earlier post (or two) you defended your position using the term "peanuts." I can't respond on point to you because I may not relate to those terms in the same way as you.

Without elaborating on my personal situation, let me just say that the price of woodworking tools is not an obstacle for me. There was a time in my life when it was, but that is no longer the case. My concern is neither price nor quality as isolated factors. My concern is value - what I perceive that I get for what I spend - or both price and quality.

I can agree, though, that, to a race car driver, a race car might not be overpriced. But I hope you would agree that a guy who doesn't drive in races might sound a little silly bragging about the speedometer of his new daily driver topping out at 180 mph.


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## JGM0658

The CMS is a great router table and is designed to be portable.

Why? I do not understand this. If it is a table designed with contractors in mind then you either need to lower the price or make it more sturdy. On site tools get banged, dragged, beat up, etc. Do you really think anybody in his right mind, doing on site work, will buy a $1600 table (without a router) so it can be brought on site and then have one of his guys throw it on the back of the truck when the job is done? If you do, you are dreaming or someone sold you a bill of goods. I have two sets of tools, one that I take on site and do not care if they get banged up and one I use in my shop. I am really confused by the idea of having a portable sliding table where the sliding part can be prone to misalignment if mistreated.

The race car driver example is a straw men argument. There is a point of diminishing returns. For example, for my shop work I like Lie Nielsen tools, they work great, look good and professional and are somewhere in a decent price range. My #4 plane cost me $350 ( I wanted the bronze one), now I could buy a Marcou or a Holtey plane, at about 10 to 20 times more to do exactly the same thing. Is a Marocu or Holtey plane going to work 10 to 20 times better than my LN, not at all! So you need to compare apples to apples. Race cars are NOT over priced simply because all the other cars used for the same thing are in the same price range. Any race car driver would laugh his kister off if all of the cars were worth 5 million dollars and someone showed up with a 50 million dollar car that did exactly the same thing and had the same top speed.

There are advantages owning a Festool tool, as stated above a no hassle warranty, well made and comfortable. But I really think that this table missed the mark on all counts. It lacks features for both the contractor and the hobbyist.


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## 280305

How do I get corporate sponsorship for my tools?


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## JGM0658

How do I get corporate sponsorship for my tools?

Get some Festool stickers and put them on your Ridgid tools…. LOL…


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## mbs

I'm a bit of a tool nut and I like buying quality tools. I should look into getting some medication for my tool acquisition disease.

I don't work on a jobsite. I'm just a hobbiest. I understand points of view on both sides of "love festool / hate festool argument."

Festool is one of the brands in my tool arsenal but it's not the only one. They have some tools that don't interest me because they are primarily made for job sites. I don't need the mft or this router table. My Incra table, Shapers, and other home made router tables work fine.

I have two of their 150 sanders. One of the sanders was performing poorly and I called the rep and without hesitation he said "let me send you a new one free of charge". Fantastic customer service!

Before festool I used Porter cable sanders. There is no comparison between the two. I got the RO90 sander for Christmas but I havent used it yet. I was looking for something smaller for getting into tight areas when making rocking chairs. I will use it in a month or so. I've heard great things about the mirka dc sanders but I havent used them yet. Some Festool sander owners switched to Mirka and are happy. I'd love to try one.

I have the 1400 router but I wish I would have got the 1010 because I have a couple of bigger Makita routers. I also have some old .75 hp craftsman routers and some porter cable routers which I don't hesitate to use. There is some stiction in the festal plunge router so it doesn't operate as advertised.

My wife bought me the small drill driver as a gift.  I told her to take it back because it was $275 and I could get several other drills for a fraction of the cost. I made the mistake of trying it out. OOPS! It is my go-to drill driver. I bought a small rockwell drill driver with lifetime replacement batteries. The runout in the chuck is horrible. I still use it for rough jobs but it isn't nearly as accurate or comfortable as the festool. It was $100. I'm not interested in Festool's other drills because I have 4 or five porter cable which work well enough for me.

I have their track saw and I like it a lot. I never pick up my porter cable or skillsaw anymore.

I would like to have the festool compound miter saw but the value proposition isn't there for me.

Not interested in the domino because I have a Jessem dowel jig and multi-router that work well enough for me. The value proposition isn't there for me.

Do I love festool? Some for sure. If I worked on a jobsite I'd probably own more but probably not the full compliment of tools.


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## UglySteve

Lumberjocks…come for the project pages, stay for the drama.


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## tturner

If you 'played' with it and are not a fan of festool to begin with, that probably means you only wanted to take a moment to criticize what appears to be an over priced tool and not really give feedback on the tool and performace of such. You are correct on the over priced part. However, after purchasing and using my first (of about 15 now) Festool, I promise there have never been such accurate tools made. They have thought of everything. The router table is no exception. I have one. I looked at them before coming to the US and waited every day for it. I bought it the first day it was available. Paid a fortune for it and love it.


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## slopjock78

Viktor, no disrespect taken. i respect your opinion as I hope you respect mine. But i think you missed my point. My point was not that there may be great value in Festool for some people. My point was that so many festool owners belittle those that do not see that value in them. Just look at some of the reviews. For every tool brand out there, you will have people that completely love the tools all the way down to people that despise that line of tool, and everything in between. Same with festool. but anytime anyone gets on and gives ANY festool item less then a glowing 18 star "BEST TOOL EVER!!!!" review, you immediately have people wanting to disregard that persons opinion as completely invalid


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## LOWI

I was warned about this. If you have a good job and buy nice tools, don't waste your time talking about them at Lumberjocks, because you'll get a bunch of whiners who can't afford the same. Funny how petty envy and jealousy ends up being expressed as fake indignation. Very sad.

FYI, I like the EZ stuff, but last I saw (like 2 seconds ago) the EZ One was $1150 without a saw. An MFT with the TS 55 saw is $1150. My MFT and saw are quite clean when cutting. You do have to turn the vac on you know.


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## PghTileGuy

At home (little more than a condo) I have no shop and can't equip with anything fun as that'd be pointless. At work I have to have what works. Repair cost and especially downtime don't work for me. Knowing I would soon need a back up circular saw I checked ebay. Normally just I spend without much concern. A Skil costs $175. Although used I spent slightly more than I planned. And or/but I got a bunch of new capabilities. It was a lightly used AT 65 saw (circa 2007) and a 5 foot piece of track. Not as strong as a well tuned Skil. I'll tell you that the three Skils I have, can't do what it does. Later I replaced my go to bosch sander with a ro 150 feq. I may get an ro 90 but for now I'm using multiple FEIN multimasters. If you're curious about the performance and brand try one of the Festool versions of your goto tool. It might not be for you. It was for me. Now I'm doing Marine work and redoing kitchens in dry docked yachts. I couldn't without that saw. Nothing else I've tried works as nearly as well for Solid surface countertops. My 2 cents.


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## JustinNY

Thanks for the review. There was a used table here for sale for ~1/2 off and I'm still going to pass on it.


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