# Regrets from building your own shop?



## scr5008 (Sep 12, 2015)

Hey all - Pretty new to the forum, but already learned a lot from this crowd.

I just started building a shop. It's a 16×20' separate shop on our property. I wanted to know what kind of regrets y'all had if you built your shop from scratch. Would love to learn from y'alls mistakes!

Unfortunately the size is locked in (so going bigger is not an option).

I'll have 2 windows on a 16' wall, and a 6' door with a 3' window on the longer 20' wall. There is a 12' dormer window going on the roof. I read on here that most people regret not having enough natural light, so I think this'll give me a good amount.

For electricity, I'm thinking the below. Would love some feedback or pointers!

- 200A sub-panel in the shop

110v circuits:
- 2 circuits for wall outlets - multiple outlets on the wall mounted at 4'6" from the floor for smaller power tools
- 1 circuit for ceiling outlets (ceiling mounted extension cords)
- 2 switched circuits for interior lighting (or just 1)
- 1 circuit for AC Mini-split (not sure if 110 or 220 yet)
- 1 switched circuit for exterior lighting

220v circuits:
- 3 individual circuits for power tools (dust collector, table saw/jointer, 1 extra)
- 1 circuit for AC Mini-split (not sure if 110 or 220 yet)


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

You'll probably want more windows than that. I've got 6 windows going into a 25×37 garage that I'm in the permitting process with now. Some more thoughts on what I'm going to be doing:

High ceilings. 8' is not enough. 10' minimum so you can have room for assembling cabinets and standing plywood/wood upright. If you are putting in a ready-made shed, you can put a couple layers of concrete block to raise the whole thing up the 1-2' extra. Cheap and adds more water resistance for the wood siding/framing.

200A subpanel is probably more than big enough. 100A will likely be more than sufficient.

Put the bottom of outlets at >48" above ground so you can stack a sheet of plywood under it.

Epoxy the floor to make cleanup easier.

Insulate the crap out of it.

Add I-beam in line with the center of your 6' door with a traveller. Then you can use that for moving heavy equipment/furniture items easier.

In a shop that size, add on a "carport" area on the outside for storing wood. Don't want to take up valuable floor space with your wood storage. Under 200sqft generally doesn't require a permit.

Water supply is nice to have. I won't be putting in any drains, but I will be running a water pipe out to the shop for watering plants/cleanup/etc.

Ceilings get high gloss white. Upper halves of walls at least get white as well. White = more light bouncing around.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

I agree 200 A is a lot.

Your mini-split will be 240 V

I'd add more wall outlets. I think you're limited to something like 6 or 8 sockets per circuit. So two circuits is only 12 - 16 wall sockets. When I walled off one bay of my garage, I put two circuits in that one wall. A set of sockets high that can be reached above any workbench and a set low that would be accessible under any workbench.

While this sounds like a lot. You will always have things cover some sockets. You don't want to be stuck thinking, "gee I'd like to but a wood rack right there, but it will cover the only two sockets on that wall".

I would shoot for something like this on all walls, or at least 3 of the 4 assuming the door takes up a lot of room on one wall.

Don't cheap out on wire size. Make circuits as big as you can. For example, assume you might one day want a 5 HP dust collector and put in a circuit for that.

Bottom line, do more of everything electrical than you think you will need. It's not that much more expensive and is 1000% easier to do when you build than to add on later.

I'll reinforce the idea of insulate well.

While epoxy floors are easy to sweep, they can be slippery and they are hard on your feet. In my case I covered my floor in heavy duty PVC tiles (not cheap). Noticeable cushion to those. It certainly doesn't sweep as easy as an epoxy floor, but I tend to vacuum and it is fine for that.

I'd consider putting down sleepers (2×4 flat ways) with foam board insulation between, and lay down a plywood floor. This can provide a lot of nice give and is easy on the feet from what I've read. You can even raise it higher to create a false floor where you can pull up the plywood and add or modify wire runs under the floor (check code) or even run dust collection under it.

Agree 100% with paint walls and ceiling as bright a color as you can. Ceilings can be be super bright white. Walls might need to be a bit tamer. But light walls will really help to reduce the shadows and dark spots.

Add a crap load of lighting. I have 8, 4ft 2-tube florescent lights ion my 300 sq ft shop. It's lit like an operating room and I love it. You're looking at a similar size. This is where you could wire half to one switch and half to another. Much of the time half will do, but when needed, turn them all on.

Water is nice if you can get it. I was able to tap into plumbing on the other side of a garage wall to add a utility sink.

Skylights are nice also. I put in Solatubes and these work pretty well. But for new construction, I'd go with traditional skylights. In that case, place them near walls, NOT in the middle of the room. When a skylight is near a wall, the light will bounce off the wall abd spread out into the room.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Good advice from JMart & Clin.

I've majorly overhauled my garage three times for working in there, I wish I could do what you're doing. Two big problems I just fixed were lumber and clamp storage. I had both thrown all over the place and never had the foresight to solve those problems until it got out of hand. Now I've got three racks on two walls for lumber (stored horizontally) and finally a dedicated area for clamps. Was lazy and bought some hanging racks from Rockler, but they are very good.

Good luck!


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Lots of windows on one side, 10ft ceilings, +++light (take the amount of lights you were going to put in and double it; seriously, seems ridiculous now but you won't regret it later), wood subfloor and consider in floor heating.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

For slipperiness on epoxy flooring, they usually include sand to mix into the topcoat so you get traction. It's a very hard surface though. If you put down epoxy, use some rubber mats in front of the table saw, bench, and any other major tool you spend a lot of time at. My shop won't just be for woodworking so I don't want a wooden floor for mine.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Put in lots of outlets and circuits..

Tall ceiling and maybe a ceiling fan or two.

Consider what you want for digital needs such as Ethernet WiFi, cable, cell phone, etc. It is so easy to put wiring in during construction. If you are working by yourself, you need the ability to contact someone if you have a problem.

Do not know where you are or what the property looks like. But you should consider security issues and fire sensors. Windows are nice but also can be a security/theft issue.

Lastly, consider how you might build in stages to get everything in if money is an issue.


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## B4B (Sep 6, 2014)

Use plywood on the walls rather than drywall. Makes it easier to hang some things compared to finding a stud behind drywall. Its also more durable.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

No regrets here. I knew exactly what I wanted after years working in some pretty ordinary sheds. Max. light and ventilation, 3m to the guttering, big doors all four sides, 3 phase and 220 power points everywhere.

http://lumberjocks.com/Texcaster/workshop


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*NO!* The 200 amp panel is *NOT* overkill!

I have a 24'x30'x12' detached shop with a 125amp sub-panel (hooked to 100amp breaker on main 200amp box), and I have had to keep re-arranging loads on my 120v and 240v equipment. Coulda', shoulda', gone with 200amp to begin with. I have managed to swap things out to make room for more, but this last time I believe I am now maxed out.

Recently added a 2-ton AC mini-split system and had to combine two 240v machines on one breaker. Pulled it off, since I am a one-man shop and only use one machine at a time. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. All of my common-wire slots and all of my ground-slots ARE COMPLETELY FULL! I have finagled my load so everything works and has the appropriate breakers, but there is now NO ROOM for anything else.

*Lesson learned… You can never have too many/much capacity when wiring your shop. * Go with a 200amp panel/box. Seriously… The added cost is minimal when compared with any/all future headaches.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I will be honest. Around my parts, I don't want any windows, period. To easy for someone to break into. Other than light, they don't do anything for me. I run my mini-split and the whole garage is insulated. The only time I open the overhead door is when I am loading/unloading projects or materials or when the material I am ripping is longer than 4 feet. I have the saw positioned at the front near the door and facing into the shop. My outfeed table serves as an assembly table/general work bench for everything else. I am comfortable working there any time day or night, hot or cold.

The walls are painted white and I have several 4 light panels.

Note: My mini split AC is 11K BTU and it runs on 110v with a 25 amp breaker. It also has the heat feature.


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## RangerJay (Jul 8, 2017)

My shop is only a hobby shop but I'd offer that:

- whatever number of outlets you think you need - then triple it.
- whatever number of lights you think you need - then double it - and work to have lighting over every work station.
- a couple of strategic windows are good - in my case I have my main tool in front of a window that overlooks my yard and bird feeders - might sound a little hokey but it is great.
- be careful of your shop doing double or triple duty - mine also house a garden tractor, garden tools, camping equipment (in the summer), ladders and just some other general storage - all of which crowd my shops tools.
- flexibility is important - lighting set up for a certain tool will - somewhere alone the line - have to change, electrical outlets will also become problematic over time as you change the layout of your shop - think about overhead outlets as well.
- don't know what kind of work you do - but wood storage can also be problematic - it's easy to provide storage for longer lumber - but don't forget those smaller cutoffs that you don't want to throw away - they are the ones that turn your neatly organized shop into a state of perpetual clutter.

Would look forward to seeing pictures of your as-built shop once it is finished.

Jay


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I back the "NO! The 200 amp panel is NOT overkill!" thing. You don't know what the future will bring and "do overs" are expensive. For example, I'm looking at swapping out my 1-1/2 horse collector for a 3 horse. With a friend over that is:

1) Two 15 amp (running amps) collectors for 30 amps.
2) A 7 amp table saw (at 240)
3) A 7 amp band saw (at 120)
4) An HVAC system (60 / 40 amp)
5) Lighting at 15 amps
6) Shop stereo at 5 amps
7) another friend over and the other collector and miter….... or

Like Mike said, consider what you might have to have circuits for. For example, the following items in my shop require to slots for 240:

Table saw
Dust collector#1
Dust collector #2
Jointer
Heater

That's ten slots before you even get to the outlets. My shop has three lighting circuits. It has two circuits on each wall (so I could leap frog them). That's eleven more circuits, and I don't have to worry about breakers tripping, when two other three others are playing in the shop. I also have circuits for the bays for the cars for vacuuming or running chargers or trouble lights. All told, that's about twenty-three circuits, and head ache free.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

My current shop has T-8 fluorescent lights. My new shop will have LED lights. My new shop will have 7/16 inch external Masonite siding. I have that now in a utility room I remodeled and I like it a lot. The color is primed a light gray and I saw no need to paint it at all. If you do paint it, it takes paint a lot better than OSB or plywood and I think it looks much cleaner and nicer. This board is thick and tough enough that you can nail or screw lighter things to it directly without looking for the studs.

I'm afraid I will have to disagree with some of the other posters on the need for a 200A subpanel. Your shop is really small and you will have a hard time putting enough equipment in it to utilize anywhere close to 200A @ 240VAC. Bigger is not always better if it just wastes money.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

When I installed my outlets, everything 120 was on 20 amp circuits and outlets. I have eight circuits and they leap frog (two on each wall).

All my outlets are installed a bit above my waist, so I don't have to bend over to plug and unplug items.

I'd installed single duplex outlets, but went back and and installed doubles in several areas. For example, my bandsaw, scroll saw and the small collector are within a couple feet of each other. The collector is on one of the leap frogged outlets and the bandsaw, scroll saw and light are on the other. Over at the sharpening area, I have a four wheel grinder, a couple lights, a small grinder and a polishing station. These things left the choice of using a double duplex box or a plug in unit.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Consider looking into hog wire fencing for the windows, if security is an issue and you still want light. Cut and mount sections of the panel accordingly.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Consider going to trusses that allow some load. The attic offers a lot of storage space and a drop down ladder makes it a breeze to get in and out.

I removed the 2x's tying my trusses together and laid down plywood. I also beefed up the trusses. I added LED lighting an switches and now store holiday stuff and other light items in the overhead.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Look at shipwright 's shop. Putting the DC under the floor I wish I had done. Oh and 9 ft min between finished floor and overhead lights.


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## bret0826 (Jul 16, 2017)

alot depends on your budget.The best thing I did was I put two twenty amp outlets in the ceiling and I run 12 gauge extension cord mounted next to them.Looks like the air hose reel,that way when I run the bandsaw,jigsaw,sander etc I just pull it down and it retracts out of the way when I am done.I don't see any reason to run outlets all over the side walls with my setup and if you have the money then by all means put 200 amps out there but in a 16 by 20 shop you will need that much power.That is to small to have multiple people working in there,your not going to have a couple dust collectors etc.I would also make sure your planer,drill press,router table and bandsaw are on mobile stands so you can put them against the wall and then pull them out to do your work on them.The more windows you have the better but you lose wall space so you have to decide what works better for you.Good luck and would love to see some pictures when your done


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## becikeja (Sep 12, 2010)

Price difference between a 200A and 100A panel is negligible at this point, pending you can add a 200A breaker in your main panel. If you only have room to add a 100A breaker in your main panel to feed it, then a 200A panel will do nothing for you. Make sure all circuits are 20A minimum and use the appropriate sockets. Seen many electricians on new construction use 15A circuits to save wire costs, this is not an easy change once installed.

I prefer the extra wall space over more windows but you must add extra lights. I do have a 2 bay garage door that is usually open when in the shop unless it's below 40 degrees. I guess if your door will be closed more windows would be nice.

I wish I had a separate closet or something to house the dust collector and air compressor for noise suppression. Running water would have been great, but my local code would not allow it in my detached shop.

Good luck.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Please do not misunderstand my call for a "200 amp panel box" in the garage/shop.


I AM NOT calling for actually "USING" 200 amps in the shop. In a one-man shop that isn't going to happen.


 I DO CALL FOR having the larger 200 amp box *ONLY for the added number of breakers it will hold*. This will eliminate the need to "piggyback" circuits (aka tying the supply of one piece of equipment into an outlet box that you will soon forget where you did such a thing).


 STAYING THE SAME, is the 100 amp shop supply breaker from the house's main 200 amp panel.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I count 15 breaker slots with what you listed, I think a 24 slot box (mines 100 amps) would be plenty. I would add a 30 amp circuit to the 240V ones listed, otherwise you're good to go (IMHO). Someone else mentioned it, I go for fewer windows, each window takes up precious wall space, even more useful in a smaller shop. I just had my 3rdone built, and opted for only 2 windows. Also, don't put your windows directly across from each other to keep birds from committing suicide by trying to fly through what they think is an opening.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

A 200A box typically has 60 or 80 unique positions. That means you could have 30 or 40 unique 240VAC circuits in a 16 X 20 area. Our original poster listed 11 circuits, most of which are 120VAC. I would say that is overkill.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Of all the suggestions made thus far, I'd second 10' ceilings as being an important feature for a shop. There have been countless instances where material has been brought in, spun around, rotated, or otherwise manipulated and I've never whacked the ceiling or a fixture because the height is there. A wonderful thing.


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## Hermit (Oct 9, 2014)

I recently built a 20×22 detached shop. Can honestly say I don't have any regrets as of yet. 
For security reasons and more wall space, I have only one 3×4 window, entry door and a 8×9 insulated garage door with the opener mounted on the side of the door to free up ceiling space and not having to look at it. Bought the best LED lights I could buy at the time. (6-4 footers which is plenty)

For a one man shop I think a 200amp service is overkill and unnecessary. I Upgraded the house main to 200 amp to make room for a 100amp sub. 
I have a through wall AC/Heater 20 amp on its own circuit.
Dedicated 20 amp circuit for the dust collector/air compressor closet.
All 20 amp GFCI wall receptacles with each wall on its own circuit, spaced 4' apart all the way around.
1 15 amp lighting circuit
1 15amp exterior lighting/plug circuit.
I also ran wiring for a future 220 right next to the panel.
That small of a shop the cost is minimum for 20amp vs 15amp receptacles.
Ceiling receptacle in the center for a pull down plug if needed., ceiling receptacle in the corner for an air cleaner.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

> Of all the suggestions made thus far, I d second 10 ceilings as being an important feature for a shop. There have been countless instances where material has been brought in, spun around, rotated, or otherwise manipulated and I ve never whacked the ceiling or a fixture because the height is there. A wonderful thing.
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


DITTO! Love my high ceilings as well.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I wish I had have made it 35 W x 35 L instead of 30×30.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I agree with Charles. Mine's 30×30 and the wife parks her car on one side. I was stuck with the size due to local building codes. If I move and build again. 30×40 stand alone shop.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

With a 200 amp service, you never will have a problem with overloading. In my shop, I may have a 3hp saw, a dust collector, air conditioner or heater, air compressor all operating at the same time. I never have to worry about popping a breaker.

When I built my 1200 sf shop, I used 3/8" T1-11 siding. After 10 years of exposure to the sun, it is delaminating and popping nails. I would recommend 5/8" sheathing if you go the sheathing route.

LEDs were not available when I installed my lighting, so I would recommend you install LED's now.

If you can, duct your dust collector exhaust directly outdoors and eliminate bags and filters, but only if your neighbors are not close.

My shop has a lot of wall lined bench space. It doesn't get used and ends up as a repository of junk and scrap wood. A smaller walk around bench is much more usable. That is what I use now.

Other than the cabinet saw and drill press, all my other machines are mounted on moveable bases. You never know when you need extra space.

Don't overlook insulation. Good insulation will keep your shop comfortable in hot and cold weather.

If you have a large door, position your saw so the outfeed from the saw can exit without running into a wall. Also leave enough clear space at the infeed end for ripping long pieces of lumber or plywood.

I have a 36" fan in my shop. It keeps the dust down and keeps the shop cool without running the A/C.

I have a 10' ceiling in my shop. I feel an 8' ceiling is too low, especially when man handling sheets of plywood.

I have rubber mats in front of my machines and workbench for comfort.

If you have the room, build a ground level deck outside your shop, so you can work outdoors in good weather. I have a deck on mine and I eventually want to build a canopy over it for protection from the sun.

My shop can be accessed easily for my pickup truck. That helps to get materials/tools easily into/out of the shop.

I have a metal roof on my shop; good for at least 30 years.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

One more advantage of beefier trusses is, you can move the dust collector into the overhead storage area, box it and return the air. If need be, the compressor could be placed there too, but I'd add an automatic drain.

I meant to add a third or fourth vote to the ten foot ceiling. Mine are eight and I get by fine, but one of my other shops was ten and another fourteen and it was nice to be able to spin a board for cutting without taking out a light.

Yeah, what others said (the LED thing). I'm getting all mine swapped over and it's nice to come out on a winter day, hit the switch and not have to wait for the lights to get up to steam, or having to deal with flickering. I stay with four footers just so I don't have to wrestle eight footers for price or folding them to fit in a car (which never goes well).

My walls are six inch. A must for cranking up insulation and making the shop easier to heat and cool. My wife is so impressed with just the results of the insulation, with no rock, she wants to insulate the garage too.

I built a four foot wide door between the storage area [with a garage door] and the shop. I can run a cabinet through it with ease.

Contemplate one or two squirrel cages for air movement or clean up. Though my collectors do a good job of keeping dust at bay, some projects still leave a lot behind and some equipment, like my drum and edge sanders toss dust the collector struggles to grab. I mask up, open a door or window, turn on a fan and fire up the electric leaf blower. In moments, all the dust belongs to the neighbors.

Plan a charging station.

Plan a sharpening station.

Plan a sanding station, with dust collection. Install sides, back and top and it'll become one of your most loved pieces of equipment, and it will work a hundred times better than the garbage you see pushed on the Net.

I am covering my floors with 4'x6' horse stall mats. WHAT A DIFFERENCE at the end of the day, compared to walking on concrete. Too, dropped tools survive.

On siding, mentioned above, consider engineered products that are known to be stable. Regardless of what you use, make sure sidewalks and things DO NOT come in contact with it, or near it. That way, rain and snow will not be as likely to wick up from the bottom and damage it.

IF you are going to do any prep, for painting, yourself, buy some one inch chip brushes. Those are the disposable brushes Harbor Freight sells by the box. Cut the bristles down to one inch long and use them to push caulk into nail holes and gaps. Unlike your fingers, the brushes will follow the grain and, instead of smooth spots at every nail, you'll have a consistent wood grain pattern. And your fingers will not qualify you for a life of crime (no finger prints).

I keep a can with an inch of water with me to clean the brush when it starts dragging (every few minutes). Just knock all the water off on the inside of the [cottage cheese or similar] container so you don't thin the caulk.

Back to electrical, don't forget the advantage of breaking up your light circuits. If one bank goes down, you can still have another for light. I have about twenty-four four foot LED's in my little shop space. That can easily justify two circuits. These are the only fourteen gauge circuits in my shop.

Because my shop has two man doors and the big doors, I installed a couple three ways for the lighting.

Consider exterior, flush mount outlets. They are useful for a host of things, be it running a vac for a car, firing up and electric weed eater, a miter out back for …...

Consider lines for the air compressor anywhere you might run a nail gun or need to blow off sawdust. Of course, you can plug the compressor into any of them.


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## tmasondarnell (Jul 2, 2013)

scr5008,

Not to be the heretic in the room, but I built my 16×24 shop in 2010. So far, I have not even taxed by 60 amp sub panel.

I think 100 amp would be more than enough in 16×20, even with a Mini Split (I use a through the wall heat pump), but if the cost is marginal, go ahead with the 200 amp

I mounted all of the outlets at 42"-spaced every 4-6 ft along all of the walls and have 1 circuit for the overhead lights.

You will not regret the double door and if you are comfortable with the security in your area, go for the all glass doors.

I am also with the group that prefers wall space over window-I have 4 small windows in the shop.

My biggest regret is not doing a concrete porch with a patio cover on it along the North side of the shop. Depending on the weather, it would be the perfect place to do various "dirty" tasks I do not want in the shop.


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## BamaCummins (Aug 10, 2008)

> I will be honest. Around my parts, I don t want any windows, period. To easy for someone to break into. Other than light, they don t do anything for me. I run my mini-split ….
> 
> Note: My mini split AC is 11K BTU and it runs on 110v with a 25 amp breaker. It also has the heat feature.
> 
> - MT_Stringer


What size is your shop? About ready to install a mini split system, shop sounds similar, insulated well and is 24×24 with metal roof and siding. Thanks


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## crmitchell (Jan 13, 2013)

Lots of outlets, 48" from the floor, spaced every 4'. All 20 amp circuits with GFI. I used a 60 amp box and have had no issues. Rare to have more than collector and 1 other running simultaneously. But, I don't have AC.


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

Dont under wire, dont over build, do over insulate. 16×20 should really be 25×40.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

> I will be honest. Around my parts, I don t want any windows, period. To easy for someone to break into. Other than light, they don t do anything for me. I run my mini-split ….
> 
> Note: My mini split AC is 11K BTU and it runs on 110v with a 25 amp breaker. It also has the heat feature.
> 
> ...


Its a one car garage so 12×20 or thereabouts. Insulated 10 foot wide overhead door. R-38 blown insulation in the attic, and regular 4 inch wall insulation on the outside wall. No windows.

It's nice to work when it is almost 100 outside, as it has been lately. I set the mini-split for 77. 









It's crowded but I make do.


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## Jacksdad (Mar 28, 2017)

I'm not the best to comment because my shop isn't done, better yet it's a disaster. It's 26×26 at the back of a 26×50 garage. I have 100 amp service and I ripped out the florescent lights and went with cans in a drywalled ceiling. It's not insulated or the walls are not drywalled, my next project. I'd like to plywood the floor just to get off the concrete. My mistake is not enough windows, when in doubt add more. You will never regret to many but will always regret not enough.


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## WoodES (Oct 8, 2013)

scr5008,

Congrats on the new space. In my opinion your biggest regret will be the shop is too small, but you can't 
Carefully plan your tool placement to place the 220v outlets. Look at the existing and planned tool ratings to determine the circuit amperage. Mine are mostly 220v-20A with 1 220v-30A circuit for the large drum sander that I'll never have…

Consider using a 100A panel and put the savings into the 10 ft ceilings. With a one person operation, the maximum number of tools operating at the same time would be the dust collector, air compressor (autostart), "insert favorite tool here", and a future power feeder. The lights, battery charger, and the radio will also be in operation and I wouldn't even come close to the 100a panel. Unless you plan to add AC or electric heat, 100A appears to be excessive.

Easy way to obtain the height is use 3 courses of concrete block to raise the 8' wall. If you can have a gambrel roof, the upper area can be use for wood storage or other materials. Spec the trusses for the load. My shop was a tuff shed garage and they used a foil backed t-111 siding and roof sheeting. The foil really reflects the heat and keeps the shop cooler (worked until 2:00 pm today, 100+ degrees outside when I quit). I also insulated the walls, but don't plan to do the ceiling. Your conditions will make that determination. I covered the inside with osb sheeting,, screwed to the walls. If I need to rerun a circuit, just unscrew the affected panels and pull the insulation. I also have two ceiling fans that run constantly this time of year. I also have outdoor lighting at the doors and outdoor outlets.

I have nearly all of my tools on mobile bases, including a number of carts that fit under my main combo work bench, outfeed table.

I also used the whitest epoxy floor paint (with flakes for traction) I could get. The walls are a similar color and the shop is brighter at night than during the day. Another way to get light in the shop is to add sky lights. This really helps during the day. I used 11-4ft t8 fluorescent when I built my shop. However, with the LED lighting getting cheaper I would use that if I were to build today. When needed, I will be replacing the T8 with LED tubes.

The key is to maximize the use of the volume and keep the work area flexible. Think of those nested Russian dolls…

I agree with the"go taller" recommendations. Your best use of space will be to maximize wall space and even consider ways to flip up workstations on to the wall. Sheet good storage that can be raised or lowered, etc.

The 200A panel seems excessive. I have a 100A panel (24×30) shop and have plenty of power. All of the 100v outlets are 20A-2 gang to allow for multiple plugs. I believe I have 6 110 circuits, 4 @20A (wall) and [email protected] (lighting). If I remember correctly, I even have a spare breaker location. Space the wall outlets about 6'-8' apart and above your work bench height.

I plumbed the shop for compressed air and have the dust collection piped through the rafters, with drops near the tools. I didn't add a sink due the permit issues, but if you can have a laundry sink to clean hand, brushes, etc., put it in.

I also have the conduit in-place for future communication lines. Presently running a Wi-Fi range extender and it works well. Used the tablet & the Snodgrass video to tune the bandsaw yesterday. The Wi-Fi also gives me the ability to access the sketchup files for use in the shop and the ever present Google searches…

Key is to understand what you will use the space for and and how the work will flow as you move through the process from rough stock to finish project.


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## vind (Oct 23, 2014)

I'll add my vote for high ceilings. We just laid the foundation forms for my 24×22 shop with 9' ceilings, 100 amp service. I plan to cover the walls with OSB or ply, well insulated and paint them white. I'll lay the sheets lenght ways top and bottom so that will leave me a 1' "channel" around the whole shop to easily add circuts, etc in the future.


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## Bluenote38 (May 3, 2017)

Two suggestions 1) Windows - add as many as you possibly can - nothing beats natural light and 2) if there is anyway you can work in a deep "front porch" (or back) over a slab it will give you a great outdoor space to do a lot of work also it is a great way to have a planned expansion area.

Oh - water and drainage. I hate having to lug 5gal jugs out to the shop for drinking and clean up.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I used 2×6 wall studs in my 30×33 detached shop. I have a separate 200amp service. I would include a bathroom and a slop sink, you not regret having it. I also have a 10/12 pitch on the roof allowing me to have a 20×33 area on the second level which includes a 20' dormer with 6 windows. My only regret is not putting the stairs outside and enclosed. This would have given me another 5'x12' floor area.


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## scr5008 (Sep 12, 2015)

Wow guys - Thanks so much for the tips. I thought I'd get a few points to think about, but y'all are great with the advice. Going to take me a bit to read through it all.

A few points:

Electrical - Yep, got the message to have 200A (maybe initial overkill, but future-proof). Also add more outlets and lighting.

Structure - This is kinda set. 8ft walls with a 12ft peak in the middle, completely open. At the edges of the shop it'll be 8ft wall, but in the middle where most of the work is done, there will be ~12ft overhead. There will be rafters @ 8ft with no decking on the first 5ft of roof on either side, and the middle 10ft of the shop will be open. My gut was to have no windows, but since you'll be able to see the shop from the road, the better half said I need to have windows so it doesn't look like an ugly shed. I think I'm happy w/ the window situation, seems like a good balance between wall storage and natural light.

I'm going to line the walls with OSB after the electrical goes in and I can insulate.

I forgot to mention above, but my shop will be on a slab. The slab just got poured last week. I've worked on slabs my whole life without rubber mats, I don't like anything in the way of sweeping/vac. Epoxy is a good idea, but do y'all think I'll have to wait awhile for the slab to cure more before epoxy?

I also won't have plumbing for water.

AC - I'm opting for no ceiling fan because I don't want to hit it with anything. I think the mini-split and a small floor fan will be OK. (I live in Texas, so the shop will be insulated and cooled).

Security - I'll be installing a camera system and it will also be on my lot next to my house. It'll look like a small guest house from the road, but also our driveway is gated with a code, the shop is set back about 100yds from the road, and there will always be someone home.

I think that's all I got for feedback now. Thanks for everything so far, guys!

Once the structure goes up, I'll post some pics.


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## RangerJay (Jul 8, 2017)

Gonna add a couple of additional thoughts:

- if this is in a residential neighbourhood then think of adding to the value of your property - a typical shop will add to the value of your property for like minded folks - but limit the value of your property to those who really aren't interested - guess what I am saying here is think about building it in a style that fits into the neighbourhood and maximizes your potential pool of buyers.
- if this is a hobby shop - and you like sports (or anything on TV) then build space for a television - mine is mounted over my main tool - with a constant stream of either news or sports.
- if winter heating is a consideration then consider an overhead furnace - mine is propane - essentially outa sight and outa mind.

Jay


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

As far as having windows for additional light, how about using clear glass blocks. You can get them with enough pattern to not be able to see in, but will admit much light into the shop. Just a thought…









at Lowe's


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

On the matter of windows and such - fire escapes


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> I forgot to mention above, but my shop will be on a slab. The slab just got poured last week. I ve worked on slabs my whole life without rubber mats, I don t like anything in the way of sweeping/vac. Epoxy is a good idea, but do y all think I ll have to wait awhile for the slab to cure more before epoxy?
> 
> - scr5008


I believe the wait time is around a month before epoxy. You will want to rent a surface grinder as well to tooth up the surface and clean it off before epoxying.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Good point. Everyone who comes to my shop confuses it for the house, several feet away. Heck, it looks nicer than our house [for now].

I like that people think my shop is a a house because it seems seedy types are less inclined to think of it as an unoccupied building during the night.



> Gonna add a couple of additional thoughts:
> 
> - if this is in a residential neighbourhood then think of adding to the value of your property - a typical shop will add to the value of your property for like minded folks - but limit the value of your property to those who really aren t interested - guess what I am saying here is think about building it in a style that fits into the neighbourhood and maximizes your potential pool of buyers.
> - if this is a hobby shop - and you like sports (or anything on TV) then build space for a television - mine is mounted over my main tool - with a constant stream of either news or sports.
> ...


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

" My gut was to have no windows, but since you'll be able to see the shop from the road, the better half said I need to have windows so it doesn't look like an ugly shed."

Yep, it won't be long before she says "Huneee, would you build some planter boxes and mount them under the windows?" 

Also, consider these cabinets for your shop. I love them and they get used all the time, and they are mounted with French cleat system. My one car garage is cramped so a lot of my tools are in these cabinets along with most of the screws, nuts and bolts, nailers, stapler and drill.drivers. Everything within easy reach of my work - just turn around and pick the tool needed.

From my blog "Garage makeover" 
http://lumberjocks.com/MT_Stringer/blog/series/6453


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## Hermit (Oct 9, 2014)

Few more thoughts…

If you're dead serious on an epoxy floor, don't seal the slab if you haven't already. Regardless you'll want to have it ground.

Would recommend 1-2 emergency lights if you lose all power.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

MT-Stringer, Can you cut/mill aluminum with your CNC router?


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

> I m not the best to comment because my shop isn t done, better yet it s a disaster. It s 26×26 at the back of a 26×50 garage. I have 100 amp service and I ripped out the florescent lights and went with cans in a drywalled ceiling. It s not insulated or the walls are not drywalled, my next project. I d like to plywood the floor just to get off the concrete. My mistake is not enough windows, when in doubt add more. You will never regret to many but will always regret not enough.
> 
> - Jacksdad


Windows are not difficult to add and you can use obscure glazing to keep nosey folks out.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

> MT-Stringer, Can you cut/mill aluminum with your CNC router?
> 
> - MrRon


I haven't tried it yet, but I should be able to. I've seen it done on the internet videos, so it must be true!


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## WoodES (Oct 8, 2013)

> Wow guys - Thanks so much for the tips. I thought I d get a few points to think about, but y all are great with the advice. Going to take me a bit to read through it all.
> 
> A few points:
> 
> ...


I waited about 5 weeks to place the epoxy and I would recommend two coats. I was able to keep the floor reasonably clean before application and did not do any other surface prep. It has held up well, with a few locations where the epoxy was gouged. But it's a shop…


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## scr5008 (Sep 12, 2015)

Hi everyone - Based on your electrical feedback and some other research, here is what I sent to the electrician. This is getting exciting… the shop is going up on 8/7, and the electrician the next week. Also I've attached a pic of the slab so far. Things are moving along!

-200 amp sub-panel - This might be initial overkill but I'd like the flexibility to have plenty of power for bigger tools… future proofing!
-I'd like most of the 110v outlets to be mounted at about 52" from the ground. This will allow a sheet of plywood to rest on the wall without blocking an outlet. 
-I'd like each wall to have it's own circuit (or multiple if you recommend) for the 110v outlets. This seems logical to me since I'll be using a lot of power tools and I will know which circuits I'm using at any given time. 
-I'd like 4 220v circuits for my larger power tools, each wall would be it's own circuit with one outlet, but along the south wall there would be two outlets. 
-A fifth 220v external air conditioning hookup on the western facing wall (barn side) for a future mini-split unit. 
-I have drop-down extension cords, so I will need some outlets evenly spaced in the ceiling. Ceiling to be on it's own circuit. 
-Currently, the biggest draw on a 110v circuit will be about 13 amps. Most of the 220v tools will be under 10 amps. Most of the time I will be using one 220v tool at a time time, or a 110v tool, but the 220v vac system will also be operating all the time, on its own circuit. I would like to know what you recommend for how many amps each circuit should be. Since all of the circuits will be separate, it seems like 15-20 amp breakers would be OK.

Layout Detail:
-North Wall
-3 light switches
-2 switches for indoor ceiling mounted lights (two switches for ceiling lights - one central and a few perimeter lights)
-1 switch for outdoor lights (would like this to be a programmable timer switch similar to the Honeywell RPLS740B)
-110v outlets
-1 2-outlet plate on either side of window no less than 52" from floor
-1 4-outlet plate under window at standard height from floor 
-220v outlet
-1 220v outlet installed between door and window installed close to the floor.

South Wall
-110v outlets (maybe 4 or 5 ?)
-outlets no less than 52" from floor spaced every ~4ft
-220v outlets
-two outlets, one at each end of the wall mounted standard height from floor

East Wall
-110v outlets 
-outlets no less than 52" from floor spaced evenly every ~4ft (avoiding windows)
-220v outlets
-one 220v outlet in the middle of the wall at standard height

West Wall 
-110v outlets
-outlets no less than 52" from floor spaced evenly every ~4ft
-220v outlets
-one 220v outlet in the middle of the wall at standard height

Ceiling
-Three 110v outlets mounted along the peak of the roof spaced evenly (for drop down extension cords)
-Hardwired lights to the two switches at the door - do you have any suggestions as to how many at what wattage/space to get very good even light? -either LED or fluorescent tube lights are fine. Would it be better to incorporate switched outlets at the ceiling so I can add lights as needed once I test the workshop out? I have been researching how to estimate how many lights are necessary and the cost of upgrading to LED and I haven't been able make the decision - any suggestions?

Slab -


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

As usual, looks like I'm late to the game. I know you just sent your electrician your wishlist, but here are a couple things I did that I really like (kinda the opposite of what you asked for in the title).

- I put all my overhead lights on their own circuit. I got this piece of advice here on LumberJocks. If a power tool pops a breaker, you're not in the dark.

- I ran two circuits in the same conduits. Every 8 to 10 feet, I have a 4"x4" outlet box with 4 outlets, 2 on each circuit. That way I can run my shop vac (dust collector) on one circuit and the power tool on the other without having to drag an extension cord from the other side of the garage.

Now, here are my regrets

- I had my garage built before I really got into the hobby. I let them talk me into a hip roof rather than the gable I originally wanted. Really cut down on attic space.

- I also wish I had them do 10ft ceilings. Instead I got 8ft. It is much cheaper, but when I need to move 8 and 10 foot boards around, the ceiling and lighting gets in the way.

- I can remedy this fairly easily, but I didn't put any outlets near the garage doors. I like breaking down sheet goods in the yard or on my driveway. Cuts down on a lot of dust in the shop. But all my outlets are a good 10 feet inside the door. Would also be easier to throw a battery charger on my truck in the driveway the couple times I've needed to do that.


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## scr5008 (Sep 12, 2015)

Thanks, Tony - I agree with the 8ft wall… unfortunately the budget hit us and i'm trying to keep the ceiling as open as possible to avoid the middle shop being too cramped with a 12ft peak in the roof. I'll have ample circuits per the plan i sent to the electrician, and the lights will be on their own circuit.

I won't have garage doors (aesthetics requirement from the wife), but i will have outlets near the outside door. I wanted to have them there for the same reason you mention… plus IF i ever get a welder, I'll have a 220v outlet right near the door that i can weld outside with.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

One other thing, play around in Grizzly's workshop planner or Sketchup to decide your layout. Can really help you maximize the space and they are free.


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## magaoitin (Oct 20, 2015)

You can't ask for a better start, just a green field and a concrete slab! I hope you do a complete write-up/blog series on your shop build.

My shop was an existing 30×30 metal building on a concrete slab when I moved, so I haven't done anything with the exterior…yet…

For regrets on my shop build I have 3 so far:

1. I did not install an epoxy floor immediately when I moved. Now I really really really want it, but I have too many tools in the space to allow easy installation. I will have to move everything one one side of the shop and do 1/2 at a time, then move everything and do the other 1/2 (or maybe even 1/3rds).

2. I have no windows in my shop. Good for security, but bad for a quick reference to the time of day (and just natural light). Even though I have a fairly well insulated shop, I don't like the idea that I could be disturbing my neighbors when I am cutting away at 10:00-11:00 at night and not even really realizing it.

3. I have a 12'x12' sliding barn door. Once the sun hits that side of the building, it becomes almost impossible to open or close. I really want a giant roll-up door, but cant justify the cost yet.

Good luck on your build!


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

One regret you may have is no plumbing. You will miss not having a slop sink. I couldn't do without a bathroom but that's my needs.


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## sawdustdad (Dec 23, 2015)

I built my "dream" shop two years ago and am finally getting some sawdust on the floor. Moved tools in a year ago, retired 5 months ago, and now at the point I can find time to spend time out in the shop. While woodworking is my primary reason for the shop, I have other hobbies, so the shop serves other purposes. Also, since I will eventually sell this house, I built the shop as a 3-1/2 car garage. I super insulated it and it is heated and cooled by a 1.5 ton heat pump. I haven't read every single response in this thread, but what I've read is spot on.

On your list of circuits, you'll need one for a pair of outside GFCI outlets. 
You'll need at least three (3) 220V circuits-dust collector, air compressor and a major tool, all may be running simultaneously. Planer, shaper, TS, all likely will be 220v. 
Put a switched outlet with a wall switch next to your miter saw that will turn on a vacuum that is attached to the miter saw. 
I nearly filled a 200A panel in my 28×46 shop. (I have 5 220V circuits for tools)
Consider an outlet for a welder if that's even a remote future need. My 30 yr old Craftsman arc welder needs a 50A range outlet, though I've pretty much moved to the Hobart MIG welder which is 110v.

Consider where you want to run air, dust collector ducts and power for the tools. In a prior shop I ran power under the slab for some tools. In this shop, many of the outlets are in the ceiling, as is the DC ducting, so they drop together to the tools. I have room to spread out, so this works.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Sawdustdad, ha! Back to that, you can't foresee the future thing, with regard to power:

I just upgraded my 1-1/2 Jet Canister, 115VAC collector to a two bag, two canister 230VAC collector. As such, my little 30×60 shop, with one bay for storage [of wood] and the other to keep me tolerated by my wife (a place to park the car out out the 110 in the shade stuff) is tapping the panel hard. For example, her is my shop layout:

3 lighting circuits. If one trips, the other is still on in the shop (24 four foot LED's). Another circuit is for the car and storage bays (ten four foot LED's). The third circuit is for exterior lights. Allow no less than 15 amps for the package.

2 slots for the 230 saw (10 amp)

2 slots for the 230 jointer (15 amp)

2 slots for the 230 dust collector (18 amps (15 run FOR THE NEW KID)

2 slots for a ceiling mount 240 heater for the auto bays.

2 slots for the 230 dust collector I JUST SWAPPED, yesterday, in for the 1-1/2 horse, 115 unit (18 amps (15 run))

4 slots for the 230 heating and cooling

8 slots for outlets (2 leap frog outlets for each wall)

2 slots for outlets in the car bay and storage portions of the shop

Add to this another 2 "I don't know what they're for" 230 slots and a 2 more 115 slots, for unintended growth, like a hot tub between the shop and house, or a BBQ area, or…..

That's about 33 slots of the 20 on my existing "you'll never have to upgrade" 100 amp panel and a good dent in the slots of the 200 amp panel waiting for installation.

With just me, the good money is on that the heating cooling system is on (40amp/60 amp breaker). Of course, the lights are on (15 amp), as is the radio and computer (7). I, often, have the collector going and a saw (15 + 7 amps).

My buddy may or may not show up, or another buddy's kid foolishly thinks he can learn something from me hanging out, and that's a second body running collectors and sanders or saws. Even if he's not around, I'm trying to convince my wife sanding is fun…….

Toss in a battery charger, a neighbor kid eating weeds off an exterior outlet, a BBQ operation, feeding the neighbors 400 amp panel or whatever….......


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## chrisirving (Mar 21, 2017)

I'm a little late to the ball game but I've been busy building my new shop, which is very similar to yours!
I'm an electrical contractor and a 200A panel is a bit of an overkill (if you're actually feeding it with 200A wire), The load on a one man shop like ours is negligible. The most actual load my shop will ever see is 25-30 amps, there's only so many things one person can run!
For lighting my shop, (24'x14' with a 12'x10' interior storage room and 10'x10' outdoor yard equipment room) I used four 110 W LED high bays on a dimmer (0-10V dimmer) in the shop area (11'6" ceilings) and 40 W LED's in the storage areas. The High bays put out 13,700 lumens per light and it looks like daylight in there, hence the need for the dimmer sometimes! With LED's my total lighting load is 6 amps including outside floods

Here's a link to the shop lights I used: https://t1-lighting.com/product/t1-hbled/
Have the electrician run a few spare 12/2 or 10/2 romex's to locations around the shop in case you need a dedicated circuit in the future, just put a blank plate on them and cap them off in the panel. 
I have 11'6" ceilings in 2/3rd's of the shop but built a lower ceiling over the garage door to support the door and opener and give me a lumber storage shelf above it
I have storage for all my clamps and hand tools in the unheated or cooled storage room off of the shop
I used OSB on the interior walls and ceiling and painted it gray
Here are a couple of pics from last weekend when I started rolling tools in


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Nice looking shop, Chris.


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## sawdustdad (Dec 23, 2015)

Thinking about max load for my shop, I would reasonably expect to have the following loads on simultaneously

Heat pump in the winter, 40A run to the air handler with 8kw strip heaters
Compressor unit, running, trying to keep up, 30A (or defrosting) 
15A running the dust collector
25A on the 5hp planer
Those are all 240V circuits, so that's 110A on each leg

25A for the lighting on two separate 20A circuits
5A for exterior lighting that might come on 
That's 120V, so only 15A per leg

Total is 125A on each leg of the 200A per leg service.

Oops, need to add the air compressor, 3HP, 220V, another 15A, so total is 140A.


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## scr5008 (Sep 12, 2015)

@ Chris, Kelly & Sawdustdad - great info. I've added the outside circuit for GFCI to the list. The shop goes in on 8/7, so I'll post some pictures then. Electrical on 8/14. Really looking fwd to incorporating all these tips.

Thanks for the lighting suggestions, Chris. I'm still stuck on exactly how much. It's crazy how much $$ lighting can creep up.


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## WoodES (Oct 8, 2013)

scr5008,

With the LED tubes getting cheaper ever year, I plan to change the t8's to LED tubes as needed. Probably when I use the shop in colder weather.

For reference, I have a 24×30 shop with 11 double tube t8's. I have plenty of light over the most of the work areas, although there are a couple of spots that could use more but everything is quite functional. Someday, I'll fix that.

The key is the placement of the light over the work areas as well as the reflection from light colored walls and floors.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

One cheap source of LED shop lights is from Costco. I believe they are only $25. Not as bright as the ones linked earlier, but you can buy a whole bunch of them to cover a wider area.


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## scr5008 (Sep 12, 2015)

Hi everyone - Well work got delayed 1 day, was supposed to start on Monday, however the crew got right to work yesterday (tuesday)... Here is the progress after 1 day of work.

I'm really happy with how it's turning out. You can see how the joists will be now at 9' for the first 5 feet of roof on either edge, with collars in the middle section. The dormer will go in, so there should be some nice natural light.

I'm sure I'll get the comment about having too few windows, but I made my decision based on having the dormer up top and also needing some wall space… the shop isn't huge, so I didn't want to sacrifice ALL the wall space with nice windows.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Looks fine to me, congrats on the progress!


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

Keep us posted! Looks nice.


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