# Woodworking equipment and wheelchairs.....



## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

When I began woodworking, I was already in a wheelchair. As I collected my power equipment, it became a safety issue for me to lower the work areas to a safe height. Yesterday Gary brought to my attention an article in Woodworkers Journal E-zine about "Access by General", the Canadian woodworking equipment manufacturer. They are now making a line of modified equipment just for wheelchair bound woodworkers. In my not so humble opinion, This is a great step into the future for those of us that are now unable to stand while working in our shops. Still having a lot of my metal working equipment from when I was in the welding business, it was a snap for me to make the necessary modifications to my equipment as I got it.
I am a pre-baby boomer and as the crop of baby boomers reach old age and come to have restrictions to their physical activity, they need modified equipment. And let us not forget all the disabled vets returning to us from Iraq and Afghanistan.
In the comment section of the article, one gentleman checked on the price of a General drill press. He was told the regular price was $1600.00 and for the Access model, $2100.00. $500.00 to cut 12 to 18 inches off a piece of tubing? Come on General. In my opinion this is gouging the people least able to afford it. By the time we are disabled and in a wheelchair, we are restricted to Social Security, a disability pension or worse. 
I am going on record that if anyone with a disability and confined to a wheelchair and needs my services to lower a piece of equipment, let me know in a PM and I will make the adjustments free. The only thing I ask is that the equipment be brought to me as I do not travel well. If you want to see the work I've done on my equipment, please go to my LJ site and see if this will be of use to you.
As for a $2100.00 drill press; check out my 1944 Walker/Turner model 900. I can raise and lower it to any height I feel comfortable with. My investment? $100.00 and the adjustment consisted of just 2 set screws. My band saw was free and I have invested less than $200.00 in modifications including the mobile base. My table saw? Another freebie.Investment, again less than $100.00 including the mobile base. 
So guys and gals a little networking goes a long way in procuring our equipment. Let your neighbors and friends know your needs, and you will be amazed at the results.
Are you listening General? If you are going to gouge us we can find much less expensive ways to enjoy our therapy and hobby. Don't screw up a good deal.
Just my not so humble opinion. Rand


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

I've always suspected a conspiracy behind woodwork machines being built at crotch height.


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## Rob200 (Sep 21, 2009)

I have been able to find an 14"band saw by grizzly build a box and it now set at 30" I did the same thing to my table saw grant it is a contractors table saw but it works fine I do need to up date my photos of my shop but I have a nice set up that is safe working hight for the wheel chair .but to see what they do to a person that is handicap with all thing marked handicap is a crime but they get away with it just the price we have to pay for a wheel chair is bad I do to bing on low income now do to being hurt Medicare will not by me a power chair I had to buy it out of pocket and cot luck thanks to crag list got for 700 .00 but if I could not get one place to deal with me to by out of pocket I was told by all of them it would it would be$ 9,000.00 now what if you had to by shoes like this I get 
*( I get so made I cant wright so I hope it is spelled right do to get hurt my mined not all there like in the past*)


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Rand you hit the nail on the head.
It dont just stop there.
great topic to post.
jamie
In a wet n windy Scotland (normally Sunny Liquid Sunshine)


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

It is really tragic and borderline criminal in my opinion that price gouging described above occurs. However, it does occur and often. Frankly, I think that a well written letter sent to the larger tool companies websites/blogs may have some impact? But also, I think that sites like this one are very helpful not only for information sharing, but for reducing the isolation that is sometimes experienced by people with (and without) physical disabilities. I would encourage members in their bios to list their state or province so that if/when desired a more tangible form of networking/assistance could occur. Also, you guys/gals with experience in physical disabilities of ANY and all types should *make some blogs *showing/detailing the modifications you have made to your equipment, so that others members can utilize this information. Use good descriptive tags so that the information can be easily found with the search engine. (Include words like: disability, modification, wheelchair, accessible, vision impaired, etc. etc. ) Alba, your wheel chair story reminded me of a person my sister worked with. He was a parapalegic- but was involved in competitive wheel chair racing. His wheelchairs kept breaking apart from excessive wear, so insurance bulked at replacement. So this guy learned how to redesign and build his own wheelchair- one part at a time. He would go to the medical supply place my sister worked and would request only a single part - and then would go home and modify that part to his own specs so that he could keep on keeping on. Imagine how much information a guy like that would have to share with others who are in similar need? And if the information on modifications is provided by people who have BEEN THERE, the value of that information is significantly increased. Blogs of this nature would also help to increase awareness. I'm sure there are members out there in need of some assistance/modifications and I know there are members out there who would be willing to go and help a buddy make the modfications. But awareness must occur. For example, I did not know that Lilredweldingrod was using a wheelchair? I did know that Alba, (my personal friend/buddy) uses a wheelchair because he puts it right out there LOL. So Alba, since you are my buddy, I challenge you, when you get a moment, to choose one modification that you have made, or would like to make if it were possible and write a little blog bout it. Then I believe others will follow your example. Am I right Redweldingrod? And Mads- if you are reading this… If we need help inventing a new part or tool or whatever you will be the go to guy.  Peace.


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

One more thought: my Len is very active in the Veteran's organization (VFW) here. If there are any vets out there from the Pittsburgh, Pa area in need of modified equipment in their shop, please let me know and Len and I will work on it.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

This is a really great blog topic Rand. I'm not much of a demonstrator or agitator, but I sure would be willing to become one for a cause like this. I would think that instead of raising prices for cut down woodworking equipment that some manufacturers or others would instead see this as a challenge or even a business opportunity to sell to what might a pretty large market. General has at least made a start by recognizing the need and actually do something about it. I think we should give them credit for that, although I fully agree with you that their approach is less than helpful.

It was very generous of you to offer help in cutting down equipment. Maybe there are others around the country who would be willing to do the same. Robert Laddusaw had a non-welders solution which also sounded pretty good.

From a manufacturers perspective I think one problem might be that they really don't know how large the potential market is. This would have to be the starting point for any business initiatives. Perhaps General has extra costs to cater to this market that we are not aware of.

I doubt most folks confined to wheelchairs and the people around them think about woodworking as a viable hobby. Personally I was very surprised to discover that so many handicapped people are woodworking, and that most of them are producing a lot more than me!


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Great thinking Kelly,
I think there are lots of folk worldwide who have no other choice than work for themselves.
Most employers cant take the risk of putting us back into a shop. Insurance would be to high.
I've my own project on the go, where I help folk get back to work or a new craft.
There is no funding available for it, as the Red Tape involved would make me more of an administrator.
http://jamiespeirs.com/12011.html
I've been doing this for over ten years.
I've some wonderful success stories and mainly from women.

Yours
Jamie


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

I think that there is much to discover in this area of conversation. First, we need to know who of us out there are currently using modified equipment- and who needs modified equipment. So you guys and gals out there- put some posts up here and let us know what modifications you are working with or working toward in terms of modified equipment needs. I have a strong background in the area of disabilities, and I can't believe I never even considered that woodworkers on L/J would have need for modifications? Awareness matters.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Great topic, Rand, and a very generous offer on your part?

Has anyone thought of writing to the ADA folks about this? They are constantly coming out with new regulations. While I doubt they would ever mandate that the manufacturers would *have* to produce accessible machinery, if enough people complain they might do something about the price gouging issue.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

Posting projects of modifying equipment is a great idea. I admit, I wasn't aware of what people with a disability needed till it "HIT" our family. I remodelled what I could back then just to continue on as a family. A lot of changes were trial and error, I had no resource information at that time.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

All I can say. Though it is quite different here in the Philippines, I admit that it turns out that I was having emphaty on Rands condition plus Megan's condition. Upon knowing that Rand is so determined, that attitude is really a way of creating policy to a government. A positive approach to those manufacturer will be by letting those woodworkers on wheels open up and let them see the demand. I know for a fact that we even created sportfest on wheels..

Rand, this is a very open blog! Thanks for letting everyone knew your situation. 
Jamie, I just know today that you are also on wheels.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Rand
Thanks for this post I have wondered how to make equipment more accessible to folks in wheels chairs knowing we have some members that are in them of course I know they have to be lower but I'm still not sure how well you can use a lowered table saw to cut say sheet goods when your in a wheel chair. I have thought about trying to open a woodworking school that would have accessible equipment and also teach woodworking to the blind. I've never followed through because I don't have funds or training to help folks
in these particular situations. But if in the future I can get a grant for this kind of school I would find others or learn my self how to teach folks with these challenges. thanks for bringing this up Rand. I also think its deplorable of companies to over charge for small modifications for folks that need them.


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

Jim- Ask Alba- he has done some of that teaching/modifying and he lives it everyday. He has some excellent information.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks Kelly hope your feeling better


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## Rob200 (Sep 21, 2009)

RIVER GIRL i HAVE SENT LETTER TO GRIZZLE AND SAW STOP THAT THE TWO FO THEM ARE CLOSE TO WHERE l LIVE AND THE SAW STOP IS THE BEST SAW FOR THE HANDICAP and I have not heard back so I do not know if they got it or not . Jim if you need some one to help you know the wright hight I will be glad to meet with you I am not to far from you ps 29" is been the hight I have working with and for sheet goods I cut them on sawhorse down a size I can safe on the table saw


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I'll send you a PM Robert thanks


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

rivergirl: My mind was on tools and equipment when I posted this. This may sound dumb, but tagging with wheelchair etc never entered my mind. And here I sit in a chair. lol Go figure.

Charlie: Personally my feeling on the ADA is if you want to really screw it up, get the government involved.
As much "good" as they have done, I still don't trust them as far as I can spit.

Alba: As you are proving, the only way to get an idea into action is to grab our wheels and do it ourselves. (those of you still walking, grab your bootstraps.)

Maybe Martin can add a forum section for disabled ideas to be shared because there are a bunch of us riding wheelchairs. If not maybe this thread can be the lightening rod for handicapped ideas on LJ.

Regardless, we all have talents and abilities that can help each other with what ever hitch we have in our get-a-long. I just like to see others enjoy woodworking as much as we do. And more importantly, doing it with safer machines and tools.

I think net working is a good place to start. IE: If some one is in need of a drill press, they can let it be known and if another LJ is upgrading to a newer machine, they could offer the old one at a fair market price and those of us with the expertise can modify it to their personal needs.
I feel those of us with the disability should pay for the machine. I have found that most people do not appreciate a freebie as much as they do when they have to invest some amount out of their pocket. And just because we are living on a reduced income does not mean we are beggars.

There are many brilliant members out there that can solve safety issues with machines for the handicapped. We just need the heart to follow through.

To my fellow injury victims out there: Laying in bed just sucks the very life out of you. Yeah I know it hurts to get up and git going. But the more you do the less you hurt and the less time you have to dwell on it. The pain is now just something we deal with. Our lives are not over. Even when you can not bring yourself to tackle a small project, go to the shop, and just think about what you want ot do. This is the best pain pill in the world because very few of us can think about more than one thing at a time. While you are thinking about wood working or what ever, you will notice the reduction in the pain levels after you return to think about the pain. Try it. it works unless you are another Leonardo da Vinci and can use both sides of the brain at the same time. 
Sorry for turning this into a rant. But every once in awhile I find a soapbox to jump on.

Thank each of you for your contribution to this thread. And rivergirl, I'm off the make the corrections you suggested. Thank you for bringing this up.

Rand


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I think a forum for disabled folks is a great Idea.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Tom1, I for one would love to hear your experiences with the handicapped. Give me a call when you have time. 661-264-6431. Rand


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

Don't forget , if there are any Vets out there in need of tools or supports let me know.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

My favourite machine is my wall mounted panel saw.
It brings all my board stock down to a manageable size.
My Band-saw is regular height and I find that I'm more comfortable on it than those who are ambulant. 
My Lathes that I use for teaching are bench mounted and I set them to suit. I've also got two Union Graduate Lathes that were from school shop and they are lower. These I use outboard and they are perfect for wheelchair use.

http://jamiespeirs.com/12011.html

I've a couple of small 24" high benches with vices that I use to teach Rocking horse carving,.
As I teach both wheelchair disabled and ambulant disabled things can change on a daily basis though height wise.
In Scotland they tend to shove us out with the garbage as far as work is concerned. Give us some benefit money (very little) and claim they are encouraging the disabled community to get back to work.
I self fund all of my teaching activities from my sales of furniture. Plus a VERY supportive wife.
So if I can do that I feel it is possible to become fairly self sufficient in a woodwork shop.
I've been teaching for 12-13 years now and have some wonderful stories, made wonderful friends and as happy as a pig in the mud.
I've had one armed students, blind students, mentally challenged, thinking back there must have been every disability that is known.
To this day, not one person has left without making something. Not everyone has become a woodworker. It has given several folk the confidence to return to the mainstream job market.
Confidence is a powerful tool.

Yours
Jamie
P.S.
If I can help advise, you can always private message me. I know certain questions can be personal.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Great work Jamie sounds like you have done it all congrats on a successful program and helping folks build confidence . you and the great folks here are perfect examples of what can be done in life even with a physical challenges


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

Jamie- you have such a BIG HEART and so much talent. Scotland (and your wife) are lucky to have you my friend!


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Hi Jim not yet. 
I should add that the fun I've had.
It also gave me a direction when going through the BAD stages of accepting disability.
Those in our situation will know all about them.
Depression so bad that I attempted suicide and had to get stomach pump.
I receive FAR more than I give.

I thank everyone that has ever came to my shop, they gave me my life back.

Jamie
in Darkest Scotland


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

thank´s for bringing it up lilredweldingrod

have been in the chair but used 3½ years to come back to the working market 
witch I feel was a lucky punch becourse the Doktors said I was never coming back on my leg
and wasn´t given any help in those days
still have days where I struggel with it mostly in the mornings

I think this isue of raising the price skyhigh on eqeipments to help disabled or just sick people
is a world wide isue becourse the different companyes think the goverment pay for it so we just
set a high price to earn more
the fact is most of the things like a bandsaw don´t cost them more to produce

Dennis


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Jamie, you need to get out of "Darkest Scotland" and come to Brightest Mojave. lol I posted my version of how to handle a sheet of 3/4 (19mm) plywood on a table saw. Maybe I'll redo it in a step by step tutorial. This was one of my biggest challenges.
When I first started my adventures in wood working, I would ask for help (to hang a new door and jamb) and wait and wait and wait. It be came evident that if anything was to get done, I could only depend on "Old Watashee", me, myself, and I. So now my crew of me, me ,me and me(Old Watashee) are hard at it.

Dennis, What great news about your success in returning to the work force. I've learned that a doctor's opinion is just an educated guess at best. The worst thing we can do to ourselves is except their opinion as gospel.
I will tackle most any job as long as it is understood that I am always prompt, no matter how long it takes.
On good days, I make hay while the sun shines, on bad days, I watch the the hay grow while it rains.
That's about enough of my horn blowing. 
If anyone out there in LJ-land needs my advice of help in modifying their shop or equipment, just call, e-mail or PM me. I have it all listed on my home page on LJ. All I ask is for you to have a can do attitude. This is not for me it is for you and your loved ones. Even if we are handicapped and need a care giver to help us, we don't have to be a whiner and a cry baby. I've been a caregiver for going on 21 years. The last thing I wanted to hear from my son was "I can't". If you try, you just might be surprised what you can still do. I know the last thing he expects from me is "I can't". If we don't try we will never know.
Another thing, If all we do is feel sorry for our selves, we have come to the end of the road and will be awfully lonely because no one wants to be around us with this attitude. On the other hand if we reach out to help others, we don't have time for the "Oh poor me"s. And we enrich our lives and those around us.
Here I am back on my soap box again. Please forgive me. There's a couple of subjects that I can really get going on. lo lRand

I am being told I will never walk again, I am walking again, just not very far or very long, but I can hobble from the front of the pickup to the back and drag my chair out. Damn glad to see the chair by then lol but if it makes a liar of of then, then I keep trying. I have even managed to get on the bottom rung of a ladder to hang cabinet door hinges. Two screws in a hinge and I NEED to set to relieve the pain, but then I do it again. It takes me forever it seems, but I am not waiting on any one to help. And I get the satisfaction of doing it myself.


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## Rob200 (Sep 21, 2009)

what ever I can do to help give me a yell and I am hear


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Robert, Lets just get all the LJ's in chairs together and see what we can do to help others. Rand


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Playing the devil's advocate here, I'm not sure that a price bump of less than 1/3 is really all that bad. They (General) have to modify the design of a mass produced machine, ensure that it meets any applicable safety standards, and sell into a pretty limited market. I would also suspect that production has quite a bit of manual effort since automated production requires a large throughput to be cost effective.

IMO, General might be worthy of an "attaboy". How many other manufacturers even offer modified tools?


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Sawkerf you have a point.
Now that I'm in a wheelchair my height is only 5' which is also the height of a fair amount of the population.
So if a manufacturer were to design a machine for this height with an adder block for average height, say 5' 10" and another for tall lets say 6' 6", then they would have covered the market.
It would also be a safety selling point.
I myself used to put machines on blocks (when I was ambulant) like I'm sure others do, especially with lathes. These are not always attached in a manner that would be recommended by the manufacturers.
With the global market as it is I'm sure it could be a win win situation.

Just a Thought
Jamie


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Another Thought

Douglas Bader, showed what he was made of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Bader

I'm sure that service personnel worldwide who have been put into a chair as the result of fighting for their country would jump (no pun intended) at the chance to return to action in an adapted tank.

There are folk out there, I've come across hundreds. Who say they would love to do an activity but were prevented by lack of availible equipment

This is also an economic problem worldwide. If we can show that disabled is NOT crippled, we can have more folk become financially independent. If this were a time of war I'm sure that more adaptations would be made to get us equipped to fill our place.

Jamie


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

Jamie- terrific link. Bader was quite the pilot (for a Brit. LOL) You know it is interesting that current US G.I's that get serious leg/feet injuries are sometimes opting for the amputation so they can get those new super prosthetic legs/feet and return to active duty. It is quite amazing isn't it? So, we need to find a way to find out who are L/J guys are who need some extra support, modified equipment and see what we can do to help them out.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

We needs some of Mads designs.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks again Jamie great link. This whole thread is so informative.


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

Jamie, what are you thinking in terms of design? Write your ideas down and sent it to mads. When he's not building grease boxes and planes , or while he is building grease boxes and planes he can think about the solutions. He's a good thinker…


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

just remember to send enoff tobaco with it for one or two stop
then I´m sure he will amaze you….nothing is impossible mirakles just takes a little longer

Edit : I´m sure he will bring Thomas (Napoleon) in to the thinking-tank they are great together 
when it comes to both old solutions but also bringing new thoughts in play
its amazing to hear those two together in the same room

Dennis


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Another resource you might consider is your local university. They're always looking for projects for matriculating engineers to learn and apply to real life applications. They get a project that provides meaning and a unique learning experience and the disabled community gets a usable product, which their tax dollars paid for. A good university (probably most) also has a machine shop for the work that would need to be done. Once the non-recurring engineering expense is past, there's a design in the public domain that others with lilredweldingrod's skills can implement in the hardware. Win-win!


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Anyone ever raise their floor rather than lowering their tools? I realize it would aleviate having them movable, but is another approach. Simply(or difficultly) build a 8-10" platform all around the shop. Like sinking all your tools in 10" pits. Just a bizarre approach that might foster some good discussion to an alternative approach.

BTW, how much would you lower your equipment, and would lowering them all the same amount be appropriate?


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

rance, the amount for each unit depends on the persons height in the chair, some of us have longer torsos and some are shorter.
For me the TS was about 6 inches, the DP was 10 inches and the BS was 12 inches. If everything is about the same as a desk, all will be close.

And not only does the equipment need to be lowered, the benches need to be made to the lowered height.
The cabinets for storage need to be lowered as well. There are a lot of little things to take in to consideration as well.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Rand, everyone is talking about lowering woodworking equipment, but why not a wheelchair which is adjustable in height or one that is just higher to be used in the shop? My wife says that the problem is probably the danger of tipping, but I would have thought that some sort of stabilizers could be devised. Probably not a good idea, but just a thought.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Mike,
they do have them and standers as well.
They are electric, which makes them s.l.o.w.
On top of that they are expensive.
We did a fund-raiser for a person about 10 yrs ago and it was about £20k $30k
They are stable though not very manoeuvrable.

Jamie in a cold but sunny Scotland

Standers, are what I term a chair the puts a person in a standing position. I cant remember what they are called though.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Hi Jamie, and thanks for your answer to my comments. I was acquainted with a member of our hobby club here in Norway who was in a wheelchair and had that stander arrangement on his chair. He was a turner and unbelievably productive too. I guess lowering the tools and work surfaces is the best idea. LJ is a great place to discuss these things, but I would think that it would be good advice for those wooodworkers in wheelchairs to join a local woody club. There are usually a lot of handy folks in such groups who are more than willing to help out, whether it be wood or metal work involved.

I haven't seen you here on LJ before so I will drop into your homepage to get acquainted. I worked in Scotland for a couple of years. I was on the mainland a lot here and there, but I spent the majority of my time on the shetland isles.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Good morning Mike,
These wheel chairs are unbelievably unstable. and the standing frames are a royal PIA. Just coming down the ramp from the house to the garage, only 16 inches long, if you hit a shoe, will tip you over or come to a screeching halt. And the standing frame is in the neighborhood of $4000.00. When you take the tray off and stand, you still have a lot of the apparatus between you and what ever you are doing.

And when handling a full sheet of plywood, That is a real struggle. I still need assistance to unload sheets from the truck to the rack. But I have worked out a system to go from the rack to the table saw top on my own.

Another real PIA is extension cords and air hoses on the ground. These are worse than extreme speed bumps in a car. The bad part is that these tear up the bearings in the front casters and make it near impossible to turn the chair. And when someone gives you a push, when coming up to a tiny little raised area, ie: 3/4" high, instead of stopping and tilting the casters up over it, they crash into them and there goes another set of bearings. The only bearings available are made in, you guessed it, CHINA. And at 5 bucks a piece there is a $20.00 repair when you get home.

There are so many little obstacles that you never raise an eyebrow to, that are huge problems to us. And we don't expect you to know what we deal with on a constant basis.

Ie: Because of the sand and dust in the desert, we take our shoes off at the back door. I made a shoe caddy and hung it on the refrigerator door. When I throw the shoes as far into the back yard as I can, I get a day or two relief of having these shoes put in the doorway. If our own families can't comprehend the problem, how can we expect any one else to. I love it when it is raining. It pisses them off so bad. I tell them, "Well take that mad spell to the tenth power and you are almost to where I go every time I have to move the shoes to get to my shop. And don't even try to follow me when I get turned over in that tight area."

And those high heeled thongs? Now that I have a band saw on steroids, watch how I fix those booby traps.heh heh heh (with a sly, evil grin)

Thanks for wading thru this missive, but I hope I have enlightened someone as to the BIG difference in life styles when you have to put your butt in one of these things. But anything is better than being tied to a bed.
One gout attack put me there for 5 months. I never want to do that again.

My best wishes to all and if you have a question, please ask. I have made it as easy as possible to contact me, with my email, and phone number on my home page.

Have a great day. Rand


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

I'm glad to see all the LJ's unhappy about the gouging and that's what it is. You'd think with all they make on regular sized equipment, they could make simple modifications in height and sell them for the same money. After all, they are using less materials… I'm going to check out these gougers and boycott them and tell my friends too.
Jack.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

sawkerf,
A little checking turned up this up: These are drill press only….bench top prices first and floor second.

Northern Tool $230 $220
Jet $600 $600
Grizzly $275 $595
Delta $189 $419

Now my point is: How can it cost $500 more for a shorter mast on a drill press? All these DP's are the same hp and speed.

Nothing is safe from a hot wrench and a grinder. Look for a good used piece of equipment and get out a sawzall with a bi-metal blade. As long as they make them tall, we can make them short. I am going to do this to my "new" 2002 jointer that I just got. I will make it a project and take pictures to walk anyone through the simple process.
Just a bit of trivia….Pipe is measured by ID and tubing is measured by OD.
A length of tail pipe tubing will replace a bent mast. Check with your local muffler shop. I have done this.
Rand


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

Excellent idea about the blog weldingrod! Can't wait to see it.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

I´m looking forward to see that post and blog Rand
that tailpipe you talk about is it so you can change the stand on a drillpress
if so what thickness do you recoment for the walls/goods of the pipe
beside that the diameter has to be the same  (in mm please)

Dennis


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

OMG Now you've dun went and dun it, Dennis. Change it to metrics? Are you aware that I am a hi-tech ***********************************? lol I struggle with inches, let alone metrics. lol

OK let me see here…..(out to the shop, find my calipers, find my French tape measure with inches & cm's)....

The best I can tell, is exactly 2 3/4 inches and that is 7cm OD measurement.

I can see it now. The only way we will ever have peace and joy on LJ again is if those of us in the USA learn metrics and use them every day. Do you Europeans have any idea how hard it is for us to join the rest of the world. Especially when we think we already own it? ;-)) Rand


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Thickness! OMG! Dennis wants more!......2mm The most of the stresses are vertical so thin wall stuff is plenty strong.
Years ago, a trucker that could not read his mirrors, backed into my drill press and bent the tube about 15 degrees. I went to the muffler shop around the corner and got a 6 foot piece and had a drill press back in operation that same day. It still had the same tube 20 years later when I gave it away. And this was in a metal fabrication business.

Have a great day Dennis. Rand


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

yep thats the hard part of wanting to be the keiser of the world …..LOL

thats some heavey walls you have …. 
is you radius then two yard ….LOL
sorry but I think you misunderstood my bad english
what I ment was how thich is the goods/ material is , not how thich/diameter the pipe was

best thoughts
Dennis


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

ups see you posted when I was writing 
thank you for it

Dennis


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

I think it was a great idea you got at that time 
condsider it as borrowed now

great place L J always learn knew things here 

Dennis


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Do you think that if we stick around long enough, we might earn a PhD?


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

no we proppebly wood bee punished by geting our own universety to run….LOL


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Well, you know what they say, "No good deed goes unpunished." lol Rand


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

thank´s Rand for a good laugh
it was needed after I read your and Jamies blog
those two together tuched me a little too much, so I cuold only say thank´s in his

take care my freind

Dennis


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

I should be thinking you for your great sense of humor. You always give us a giggle and then a special belly laugh that lasts and lasts. 
Thank you for always being a bright spot on LJ. Rand


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

I gess thats what have got me trugh all those years Rand
even when I´m in the biggest black hole I use to do it with some black humor
I gess I´m just born optimist 

Dennis


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Rand,
this has been a great subject that you started.
I really shows what the LJ's community is all about.
Thanks

jamie
"its a braw bright moonlight night the night".


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

It has been a great subject very interesting thanks Rand


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Jamie, Without you and Dennis helping, It would be all for naught. We have a great community here. I love how others with experience in helping (Tom1) and the ever eloquent (rivergirl) and all the other caring souls here.
I know of a few vets out there, some handicapped and some still on active duty, that need a bit of coaching in the ways of woodworking. Anything we do to help is going to be appreciated. Not all are able to adjust to the limitations thrust upon them. Those of us that are wired for this need to step up and offer a hand and a bit of guidance. Some times we need to be firm and sometimes we need to use kid gloves. But always from the heart.

I was thinking, if I were in Scotland, where my ancestry came from, I might be a highlander as I was raised in the heart of the Ozark mountains. lol Although my family comes from just below Glasgow. Best wishes from the Mojave Desert. Rand


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks Jim and you hang in there. Our best mentors are being picked on for the moment. My hope and advice is don't give the bastards the pleasure. We need good people here. My 2 cents worth. Rand


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

As for myself, I'm not looking for sympathy, I want solutions. I don't need solutions for me, but there are others that evidently don't have the skills or other tools to accomplish their needs.
And I feel as you do too. If all a person does is whine and complain, I'm outa there. I will not wallow in their misery with them.
You can not help anyone that will not help themselves.


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## Rob200 (Sep 21, 2009)

where we need to start with is with the table saw On Monday I am going to call the saw stop people and is if i can get witch there R,D .and is if we can get a hot dog saw to fit a wheelchair this is the first thing I would love to have just for the safety is the one thing to me to start .A drill press An good bench top work and you can get 14' band saw and build a bass .but I want a cadent saw with an good fence and if you all want is to find people in in your area and help them get set up and if you need help come to Randy or my self or Alba and there is more wheelchair L.J that did not get in on this


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

about a woodworking bench , not so long a go I had seen a bench that cuold be raised and lowed
with a cordless drill , can´t remember the name on it but it is sold on the net too or was it the plans
but it did look good and sturdy maybee thats one of the solutions we have to consider
when W-users ask for a little help geting a shop build

Dang I wish I cuold remember it now , have you seen that bench Rand

Dennis


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Dennis, no I haven't, but There was an assembly bench a while back that raised and lowered with a scissor jack.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Well Rand that is not far from myself.
I'm in Ayrshire..
jamie
just sitting


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I really admire you guys who don't give up so easy. I like to sit a lot, but do not have to be forced into it. My wife just said "that's for sure!" I honestly can't visualize the working process from a wheelchair. I can see turning ok, but not the rest. Anyway, my hat's off to all of you in that situation.

When it comes to metrics, it's probably a good thing I took up woodworking in Norway where they use the metric system. It's harder to make measuring mistakes over here. Not that I don't make my fair share anyway. The imperial system is very clunky in comparison. I had to do a lot of converting during my time in the oil business and it was a PIA as Rand says. That said, I can well understand Americans resistance to changing the system. There are so many existing tools and imperial sized stuff like nuts and bolts, measuring equipment and manufacturing standards, etc. that it must be incredibly difficult to convert. I suggest you all just move to Norway and avoid those difficulties.


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

I know of a couple of lathes designed for the user to sit.
http://oneway.ca/lathes/1236SDlathe.htm
http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=718


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

I've been watching this thread for a couple of days now with much intrest.
These pictures probably belong with my profile, not here. 
It's my shop of 20 years plus and me.





































The right arm went at age 21, 40 years ago in a sawmill accident.
Rivergirl wanted to hear from all the woodworkers with "challenges" 
Officialy I am "disabled" at least that's why I get a workers compensation cheque.
My beef isn't equipment or tools, there's always a way to get 'er dun.. weither it's working out a multi clamp system or pulling a plane rather than pushing, raising the floor by the power tool, or cutting the mast on a floor mount drill press.
It's attitude. Those who say I CANT !
That theme hasn't shown here, everyone's trying to figure a way, be it individualy or together.
I can be very slow in geting a project done, it takes longer to plan it out, figuring just how to get things lined up, supporting long stuff for the drill press and so on.
(and yes, I can understand the frustration at being charged more for less like a shorter drill press being more )
I made the workbench, based on a stand my dad made in the early sixties, doubled up the orriginal 2×4 legs, finished the bottom shelf where the motor for his tabletop bandsaw and my wood lathe mounted.
The top's full 2" dimension western maple with oak 2×4 edges 30 by 50 inches. The maple was rough on the edges, I hand planed them to match each other in my b 'd workmate, then glueup.
the enclosed tail vice is my own design using ready rod\all thread and pipe fitings with the thread filed out.
Friend welded the nuts under the carrage to a plate and I added the funky wild grain walnut sled.
All my big power tools are mobile except the wood lathe and ALL have foot switches
OK, now I'm starting to digress..
Any way..the thread gave me flashbacks..
What has been most impressive is the team aproach evidenced among the LJ's..
I hope I haven't hijacked this or offended anyone


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## Sacadelic (May 17, 2009)

Hello there everyone. I started to post on here a long time ago, but just got wrapped up in other things. I have been building a shop for a year and a few months that is all wheelchair accessible. I have built everything for me. There are more details on my shop page. Here is a link to my shop..

http://s1006.photobucket.com/albums/af186/Sacadelic/Updated%20Shop/?start=0

I will post this on my shop page as well. I did buy the General Access cabinet saw. I love it and wouldn't give it up for the world. Please PM me if you have any questions. I have modified a few tools with great success. Out of time now, will post more later..

Sac


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey Glen, The more the merrier. Welcome aboard. Even if you and I never get to assist another person to accomplish putting together their shop. maybe we can inspire them to crawl up out of the self pity and come back to life.
By the way, I think you are short a couple of hand tools. As soon as I figure out which ones, I'll let you know.

Hey Mike, Do you have a couple of extra bedrooms? I'll kidnap David and we will move in next week. lol

Thanks Hairy, for the heads up on the lathes.
Rand


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Great looking shop Glen good to hear about you and your work.


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Rand, could you speak with my wife perchance ?
"what do WE need with another of those things ?"


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Glen, You bet! My phone is on my home page.LMAO

Sac, Great shop! Welcome to this thread.

Rand


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## Rob200 (Sep 21, 2009)

there is so much more and we can all get in voled by find some how need are help in are own back yard get them it in to woodworking


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

I want to thank each and everyone of you for your participation in this thread. Now I would like to hear from other LJ's that have taken the necessary steps to get their shops adjusted to their needs. And from LJ's that need assistance to modify a piece of equipment to their needs.

And if you know another LJ that is wheelchair bound or like Glen has lost an appendage, tell them about this thread. Maybe we can help them to enjoy this great pastime more fully.

Rand


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

This thread is MARVELOUS! I am so overwhelmed when I read these posts that I tear up. (No- really I do..) I Love the pics and the sharing of tips and the networking that is happening! There is power in numbers and support from friends is NOT sympathy- just a leg up, or an arm up, or a behind up.. till whoever needs the boost is able to WORK independently. I wish we could create a separate subfile somehow, so that L/J members in need of assistance could easily refer to the index to find a supplier, a welder, a dimension etc. Any thoughts on this?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I only have one spare bedroom Rand, but honestly I wasn't thinking everyone should move into my house, even though I would more than welcome the company. I might have some spare space in the workshop, although it would have to be kept tidy by whoever stays there.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Mike, I know how take over, All the fine military training, you know. lol I am great at KP But will have to lower all your equipment, so get yourself a chair and start practicing. lol Rand


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks for the warning Rand, but in fact I have been practicing for many years, too much according to the wife! You can see from my picture here that I'm pretty darned good at it.


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## DianeLovesWood (May 3, 2011)

I just signed on to LJ, and have read some, but not all of your postings, so bear with me if I'm repeating 
someone elses question.
I'm not in a wheelchair, but some days I can stand at a machine, and some days I can't. Any thoughts on
how to make machines easily convert from sitting to standing. It would have to be a conversion I could
do myself.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I guess I should add that I do woodturning and boxmaking, although the latter is in it's infancy.


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## harv56 (Apr 5, 2017)

I am in a wheelchair and love wood working.I have a lot of equipment but would love to know what is good table height for my table saw and other equipment.And also agree with how much a rip off it is for these equipment companies to charge extra for equipment made for handicap people when it takes less material to make.Pretty sorry if you ask me.


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## oldsailor59 (Mar 22, 2017)

hate to see folks getting gouged for shortened equipment. I am still mobile, but I have had one knee replacement and the other one will be replaced within the next 5 years. I started building my shop before the knee surgery and finished it afterwards. I can sit down and work at 2/3's of my benches. I can sit in an office chair and use my drill press, router table, disc sander, knife making belt sander, heat treat furnaces, planer, and assembly table. Next will be to lower my sliding miter saw table.


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## Just_Iain (Apr 5, 2017)

Bump!

Anyone got pictures to post yet? It's been 6 years!!!

Iain


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Hello Iain, yes there are a lot of pictures in my blog No. 1 and No.2 on lowering the table saw. Wow! 6 years…..my how time flies when we are having fun. lol Welcome to LJ. I kinda dropped out due to a few cyber-Nazi types.


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