# Converting Two Car Garage to Workshop - What would you do?



## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

The wife, newborn and I moved into a house with a detached two car garage in Decatur, GA. I am beginning my plans to convert it to a workshop. It has a bonus room above that is finished into an office. I'm somewhat starting from scratch. So, I wanted to get advice on how to do it right from the start.

What would you do if you were me?

Here's the info on the space:


















- 246" wide x 256" long x 96.5" tall
- two car garage door facing north
- concrete slab, drywalled, uninsulated
- 50amp sub panel for garage & bonus room above
- (2) 15 amp circuits for garage: (1) for 11 wall outlets on three walls. (1) for four light bulbs and garage door opener.
- (4) 20 amp circuits for lights and plugs in bonus room + (1) 220v/20 amp circuit for heater/ac window unit in bonus room.
- one entry door on west wall
- no windows or plumbing

Here are my priorities:
- hand tool and machine woodworking focused
- adequate power for power tools
- heating and air conditioning in some form (live in Georgia)
- dust collection and air filtration
- sufficient insulation and sound dampening
- LED lighting
- ability to move tables and machinery against walls to allow us both to park if the weather is bad. We will not park in the garage on a daily basis.

Here's my current plan that I call "do it right the first time". After trying to move as much as I can out of the garage, I will:
1. remove drywall from walls and ceiling (save as much as possible)
2. pressure wash floor, degrease, repair cracks in concrete
3. install meter and new 125 amp panel in garage to replace 50amp.
4. wire dedicated 220v circuits for compressor, dust collector, Mini-split HVAC, 3hp Table saw, electric car charger
5. wire circuit for lighting
6. wire (2) 110v/20amp circuits for wall mounted receptacles at 52" high, alternating circuits from receptacle to receptacle.
7, rewire/repurpose some of the circuits in the bonus room that are overkill.
8. caulk and weather seal around slab, studs, windows, doors
9. install one window on west wall and one window on east wall
10. install fiberglass insulation
11. install new insulated garage door
12. lean to shed - enclose, soundproof and insulate space under exterior stairs on South wall to house dust collector and compressor - lean-to shed extension to back wall of garage, sorta
13 run compressor and dustcollection lines (before or after drywall?) from lean to throughout garage
14 install mini-split
15 wire any audio / cat 5 if needed
16 paint floor - epoxy? just stained? garage floor paint only?
17 install two layers of 5/8" drywall using green glue sound absorption caulk in between each layer
18 tape, mud, sand, prime, paint with high gloss paint in light color to maximize light reflection and reduce saw dust sticking to walls
19 install lighting
20 install dust collection and compressor lines, if appropriate at this stage
21 install air filter
23 install band saw, jointer, table saw
24 install cabinetry and miter saw station
25 install french cleat systems for wall hung tools
26 create sanding station
27 create drilling station for drill press, bits and power drills
28 install compressor
29 building wood storage and clamping storage
30 create multi-function assembly table (like Pauk)
31 create flip top mobile tables for planer, grinder, spindle sander
32 drink beer

I'm mocking it up in Sketchup, but I'm still not even close to done.









Dallas Bentley


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## DannyW (Dec 15, 2018)

I'll be watching this since I am in the process of updating my finished attached 2-car garage. I am mainly adding 110v branch circuits (2), possibly a 230v circuit, and lighting to replace the single dim light fixture. I am not looking to do any extensive changes since I will be retiring in a few years and most likely moving, but am interested in what you come up with. Good luck!


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Glad to see that you're planning to insulate. That, and electrical work, would be my first priority.
Sounds as if you have a good plan.
Beer? Do it now, then call your banker.


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

If you haven't already, I might suggest to put 'getting an electrician to advise on the electrical' right up at the top of your "plan" bullet list. I say that because you are planning to have some large tools running. The transformer, service conductors, main breaker and panel along with whatever size conductors are feeding the garage now from the house, all need to be taken into consideration. Even if it is possible to put in the sub panel you mentioned, you don't want to be turning on your equipment and dimming down everyone's lights or causing problems with appliances or electronics.


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## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

Good call on the electrical, Blaster Stumps. Had a guy quote me last Friday.

$2,000 for new meter, new line from meter to garage. 125amp panel. All the circuits. He said that is enough for my list of tools running but I'd have tear down the ceiling drywall down and run the trench from the meter through the backyard to the garage myself to run the wire to get that price.

That's serious money so I'm doing research. More quotes…


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

I'd say he is pretty close to correct. Wonder what size the transformer is serving your house and how many neighbors does it serve?


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Any height in the ceiling to add racks for wood storage? If so I would to that. I added a spit a/c (I live in ft. myers) and it works great. I insulated the doors my self, that can save you big. Add Real good lights, window's are great but you loose wall space. You would be surprised how valuable that can be. if you epoxy the floor don't add the sprinkles, (drop a screw it's harder to find) I would do something to help sweep up the dust and stuff. Also, check out storage solutions on LJ, I did a hand drill station, that really works, I use it all the time. good luck with this project. Don't plan too much, you will change things as you work in the shop. Enjoy the process.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

Seems to me you have a lot of it thought out. I also question adding the windows, again due to losing so much wall space.

I wouldn't bother trying to salvage drywall. Seems like way more work than it is worth.

Doubling up drywall for sound proofing is probably not all that necessary or helpful. No question more mass helps, but your garage door is going to be a very weak link for sound proofing. But, it's not that hard to do so nothing wrong with doing it. Just be sure to account for the extra thickness when installing the electrical boxes.

Certainly all the sound proofing you can manage for the DC and compressor shed. Since you will be building that from scratch and it is small, I'd go all out on that and do a room inside a room. Though given you have to vent the DC there's a limit to how helpful that would be.

The mini-split is a great idea as is the insulation. You can insulate your own garage door, but it likely won't be as well insulated as one you can buy.

You mentioned putting electrical outlets high at 52", consider having some low as well. You may want to access power under a workbench. It's just so easy to put in more outlets when you have it all opened up.

Didn't notice if you said this, but consider outlets in the ceiling. You may have something like an air filter you want to mount to the ceiling, as well as you may find you would rather drop a cord down to a machine rather than runnign it across the floor. Again, something that is easy to do.

As for flooring, when I converted part of my garage to a shop space, I used PVC tiles. There's a wide range of these from thick and expensive to thin and much less expensive. I got thick ones costing about $5/sq-ft, so certainly not cheap. But there are versions that are less the $1 a sq-ft.

They are also plenty durable for parking a car on and in general they are often sold as premium garage flooring.

They are very durable, easy to lay down, much easier on your feet than concrete. Also, soft enough that a dropped tool is much less likely to get damaged than dropping on concrete.

When adding the mini-split, consider getting a two zone version and stick another head in the room above the garage. Much better than using a window unit. Especially if you will use the room often.


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## RDan (Jan 14, 2012)

If you can run a sub off of your existing panel, run the trench and put in Conduit x2 run cable in 1 and network cable in the other, or as a spare. Around here it is the meter head that costs money along with the other service fee. I live in WI. If heating with electric, figure 1 or 2, 5000W heaters that need 30 Amp circuits each or follow many others that look at Mini-Splits. Dan


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## stevepeterson (Dec 17, 2009)

I question the need for a 125 amp panel, especially since it seems to need a lot of added components including a new meter.

I ran a garage workshop with a 50 amp panel. This included a 5hp tablesaw, a 5hp ClearVue dust collector, lights, small air conditioner, and an overhead air filter all running at the same time. The two 5hp loads are each on their own 30 amp breaker. The key is that they should not both be started at the same time. I had the window mounted 120V air conditioner on one circuit and all other 120V loads (lights and air filter) on the other circuit to balance the load. All the 120V devices were probably under 10 amps, leaving 40 amps total for the heavy 220V devices. I also had a 3hp bandsaw and other smaller tools, but they would never be running at the same time as the table saw.

The biggest limiter might be if you need a 20 amp 220V air conditioner for your environment. This would leave only 30 amps for all your other tools. This should still be enough for a 3hp table saw and a 3hp dust collector. The key factor is that this works for a 1 person workshop where only 1 primary power tool will be running at a time.


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## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

> I d say he is pretty close to correct. Wonder what size the transformer is serving your house and how many neighbors does it serve?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I don't know the answer to that BlasterStumps. How would I find that out?

Our main panel served by the existin meter is 200amps and is pretty full. 50 amps goes to the garage. From what I understood, he would update the meter and/or update an add a nee one. Then there would be two shutoffs at the meter - one for each panel - Garage and House.

The garage sub panel has two breakers taken up as a main shut off to that sub breaker, which seems superfluous. That's just breaker space though, not really taking up amps.

- Petey -

Good ideas on the flecks for the floor. I don't like the look of them. Seems busy.

I'll peek behind the drywall in the ceiling if there is space to work with for storage.

Good thoughts on the windows and not overthinking it. Definitelt overthinking it as I think about the need for windows!

- clin -
You second the question for the need for windows. It's not huge, so that is a consideration. I just always read about the value of natural light. Dunno.

Yeah I figure the more windows and doors, the more double drywall would be a waste. As is salvaging any left over. Messy stuff when removing.

Good thoughts on the DC venting. Hadn't considered that.

I wonder what plugs I'd need at a lower level…

I'm putting a 220v in the ceiling to drop down to the table saw. The saw will be somewhat centered in the garage with an outfeed table, router table and bandsaw set up as a sort of island of tools there in the middle. I will have to gameplan the power for the other machines as well. Possibly from the ceiling.

Where did you get your vinyl flooring? I only see that for shops with show cars online. No woodworking uses in action.

I will get a mini split with two air handlers (zones). One for each level. This raises the price/BTUs but I hear it is more efficient.

- Dan - 
The electrician looked at the 50amp line that serves the subpanel currently from the main panel which is 200amp. He said he could run a new line from there, but recommends against it since i'd still be stealing amps from the house and the wife might be mad if the dryer cuts off when I'm cutting something. I'm still not sure about the new panel though…

- Steve Peterson -
I could, conceivably, coexist with the 50 amp panel now. It feeds the bonus room as well though. So, I wonder exactly how many things I could run at the same time. Dust collector, HVAC, table saw and garage lights but nothing else upstairs at the same time? Seems like I'd be cutting it close. This is why I'm getting feedback. It will be one person and most likely one tool.

Dallas


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

why remove the drywall? blown-in insulation in walls and ceiling would be fantastic to keep your shop temp controlled and help with sound. And I believe fire code is to have fire-X rated drywall between garage and horizontal/vertical living space.
Yep..add electrical outlet (110v and 220v) in ceiling for future reel extension cords. I only did a 110v and it gets used all the time.
If ever to build your own woodworking bench (example: roubo), a large window in the backdrop helps greatly. So keep that in mind about windows.
Dual zone lighting. Incase, one zone blows a fuse while you are operating machinery with spinning blades.
Color scheme: I went sunrise/sunset two toned walls. Brightens up the place


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

transformer size is probably fine but it is always best to know what it is when you add load. A call to customer service at the power provider to request the information by giving them your address or possibly meter number should be what you need. The power provider will generally size a transformer for the collective given load plus some. What that 'plus some' is, I am not sure. I doubt that it would be much in the excess because they don't want excess KVA sitting out there idling for no good reason.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

I think this was the PVC flooring I used:
https://www.garageflooringinc.com/tiles/tuff-seal-stud.html

From this web site:
https://www.garageflooringinc.com/soft-pvc-tiles.html

But shop around and get samples first. It's a weird thing were I think many of the online sources are really all the same source. But each has different pricing. Quantity matters with pricing. And this stuff is HEAVY, so look for free shipping or be sure to factor that into the price.

Price is pretty much tied to thickness (weight) and versions, like I used, with hidden locking versus types that don't have that. Some like mine are also have water resistant seams. That matters if you pull wet or snow covered cars in.

I used the coin pattern. Obviously anything with any sort of texture is a bit harder to sweep than say a smooth epoxy floor. But I vacuum rather than sweep and have no trouble with that.

Also, things in the shop don't roll on it as easy as a smooth floor, but it's not an issue. And in fact it helps a bit. My garage floor slopes towards the door (common I believe) and my table saw would wander rather like a shopping cart on a sloped parking lot. It of course locks down, but sometimes I need to momentarily take my hands off while moving it around, so nice it will stay put.

Though I suspect the softness of the PVC tiles is more than enough to keep it from rolling on it's own. And there are different textures you can get like diamond plate and some very light texture. Though with my testing of samples, the coin pattern vacuumed easiest.

The least expensive and quickest to install are these PVC garage mats or rolls:
https://www.garageflooringinc.com/rolls/coin-nitro-rolls.html

This is about the best photo I have of my floor right now. Though it's really a photo of an assembly table. One box of tiles was darker than the other so I had to mix them in to form a pattern. So that's why there's that darker one. They did give me a discount for that or would have replaced it, but I discovered it mid install and didn't have the time to get new tiles.










I'm happy with it. Though would have preferred a wood floor, but not only is my floor sloped it transitions from horizontal to sloped and it would have been awkward to get a wood floor to follow that. So I'd do this again given the choice.


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## Mainboom (Jan 24, 2019)

do not tear down the drywall. hire a electrician or just buy a fish tape and fish the walls for your electrical. have a 125 amp main lug installed for a sub panel. you will regret tearing down that drywall because your not gonna be able to save much if any of it. scrub the floor with a brush and epoxy coat them. then put tools in it… all this worrying about the size of the transformer where you live is just insane. im not gonna give the math on it but the power companies plan them for a given amount of power per hour. which most neighbor hoods never touch. if your having brown outs you live in California which I wont get into. so stop worrying about transformers. Sry for the rant.

if you wanna be getto about it and not fish the walls you can use emt pipe and run your wire through it. but some places that is not code so you have to check city codes. which is why if I was you id hire an eletrican for maybe 2k. save the drywall and the headacke .

Building your own garage and drywalling it in not as fun as you have been lead to believe. I just finished a 24×30 with loft. I built it alone wired it alone drywalled it mostly alone. my wife the electrican did not help me wire it she told me what was wrong and I did it over. 3 time to be honest yea im not an eletrican. point being if you have an eletrican wire it for you you wont spend the money on the drywall. the time the effort and the falling off the ladder. let alone buying scaffold a drywall jack or renting one. lets not talk about mudding the thing. so by time your all said and done you could have paid an eletrican to do it for you. all you have to do is epoxy the floor and put tools in it and go to work. if you can swing it don't be a hero. pay someone so you can do what you really wanna do. it took me almost 3 years because I work and don't always feel like jacking with it. and no one really wants to help you unless they get paided. just being honest


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Having had the electrical done for 3 different shops, your quote of $2000 seems quite reasonable, if not slightly low. I would not try and make due with the 50amp panel that you currently have. Could you make it work? Yes, but it would be super annoying and your wife would hate you as mine did when I had a similar setup in one of my shops and the lights would dim every time I'd start my TS. If you are essentially building a new shop out of the garage, do it right and get a good electrical setup. My current shop is 1200sqft and I only have a 100amp panel, which has been more than adequate while running my machines.


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

> What would you do if you were me?
> 
> - Dallas


Count my blessings and tell my wife how much I love her. Not necessarily in that order. :^)

BTW, Congratulations! Looks like a great place and a sweet setup!


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> The electrician looked at the 50amp line that serves the subpanel currently from the main panel which is 200amp. He said he could run a new line from there, but recommends against it since i'd still be stealing amps from the house and the wife might be mad if the dryer cuts off when I'm cutting something. I'm still not sure about the new panel though…
> 
> - Dallas


Sorry, I formally toss the BS flag on this pile!
Your electrician is blowing a smoke screen in your face. You can't 'cut dryer' off when you 'cut something on saw'. Worse case current draw is motor start up (or lock up failure). This would cause brown out, or breaker trip when saw turns on and not cause a 'dryer cut off'. Worse: most dryers are made to universal utility services found out in middle of nowhere (or in some cases 3rd world countries) and will tolerate a WIDE voltage swing before they act weird.

IMHO - here is real reason:
Retrofit is harder than new install. No one wants to remove/replace/fix existing junk. He wants you to add new service for more money .vs. couple hundred it will cost to run new wire and up size the breaker (or replace panel with larger one). Changing the existing feed wire also means he has to run load calculations on entire house for existing panel to see exactly how much power you can spare from utility service. Making the demand list and doing the math is considered a bunch of non-value added work by most hands on electrician's. Every one I know avoids retro-fit load demand calculations any way they can.

I am not faulting your electrician for pushing for new panel. They are always less hassles with new, as retro-fits seldom get done without minor challenge. Just saying his reasoning for not doing the less expensive work is bull squat. Need to get a better answer, hopefully one with quote for only increasing capacity to existing panel.

FWIW - agree with most advice being offered so far: especially the environmental and keep it simple recommendations. Less work it takes to create shop, usually means less money required; and you will be working in shop a whole lot faster.

Best Luck.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I have a separate 200amp service for my detached garage and have no issues. I installed it myself with the help of my brother in-law. Did not cost me that much wire to the pole, meter box and200amp panel.


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## unclearthur (Jul 4, 2013)

Suggestions:
Definitely definitely definitely add the windows if you can budget for that.Maybe in the new garage door.
Make a wood floor (hardwood, plywood, anywood). 
Make it a nice space that you feel good being in. Its not about efficiency.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

Out of box idea after staring at picture:
Dump the upstairs office, wood working is more important, so put wood working tools on second floor that is already nice living space. 
In actual garage put dust collection, compressor, wood storage, metal working area, and set up heavy plastic curtains and whole house fan in wall for ventilation to use car space as spray finishing booth.

Thanks for letting me dream.
Cheers!


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## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

- Holbs -
Nice thought on the dual zone lighting and color scheme. I've seen pics of those and I'm considering it. I have built a bench (in a room with good light!). You can see it here:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/55933

I'll look at the insulation and drywall you mention. Anything to make it easier, but I think I do need something.

- BlasterStumps - 
Good thought on giving the power company a buzz to check check the load.

- Clin - 
Thanks for the flooring information. That really helps. I was looking at that exact coin pattern (at another site, you are right, they all come from the same place I bet). I was debating between the interlock, roll, tiles and didn't know what was best. I will take your advice and go sample crazy. Keep an eye on shipping with pricing it out as well. I'd love a wood floor, but I haven't researched it enough. I worry about how level my concrete is, vapor/water issues on the concrete and cost, of course. I have a ton of red oak and I may use it for the floor, if I feel comfortable enough about what the result will be.

- Mainboom -
Yeah. I get your points on making sure it's worth the trouble. I do value my time and wallet. I also want to learn a little bit on how to renovate as space. Just don't know if the return in knowledge, blow to the wallet and final result will be worth it. Some say it is, some don't. Sounds like you got what you wanted out of your shop but took a bit! I have a guy who helps me with things around the house that I can't afford to get wrong (roof, electrical stuff). I am seriously considering using his back more to avoid breaking mine.

- Manitario - 
Good to hear your experience with expanding electrical and your three shops. That is exactly what I wanted to hear. I also have that bonus room which could conceivably converted to a carriage house with plumbing and the extra electrical load would also be a consideration. I will probably do the electrial panel and not run more wire to the sub for this reason.

- Ripper70 -
Kissed the wife, changed the baby and delivered breakfast in bed this morning. I hear ya!

- CaptainKlutz -
Good call. I work for a subcontractor and my spideysense tingled a little bit when he didn't want to push retro-fitting. I agree getting a better answer and more quotes are the next steps.

I have woodworked in five different places. One was simply a bench on top of a washer and dryer in an apt Two were in one car garages. One took some work to get ready, and it frustrated me. That was very early on though. The second required less work and I produced a ton. Of course, it was insulated, heated/cooled and had all the power I needed. I think to get to the latter I might have to deal with the former.

Haha on the dream! Told the wife that one. She was not amused.

- unclearthur -
Thanks for the comment. I think I'm leaning more in your camp. I want to be nice, not necessarily easy. Something to be proud of.

- woodmaster1 -
I wouldn't even know how to begin to learn to install something like that 200 amp box myself. Although, I am reading and learning about it more and more. I've never installed a panel or even breaker before. Just rewired lights and such. My city is pretty regulation crazy, so I'd have to check if that is possible.

Thanks all for the feedback. Very, very helpful.
Dallas


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Please get a second opinion from another electrician. 125A sure seems like overkill IMO.

Check your main service panel for the house if there is room for a double pole, ask the electrician about running a 50 or 60A subpanel.

I ran my entire shop on a 60A subpanel for 20 years never had an issue. Mulitiple 3HP machines, 5HP compressor, 3 window air units, DC, etc etc. I never had any issues inside the house with lights dimming, etc.

That said, if you think you'll put in a central AC unit, you're better off with a bigger service.

If you do go the route you seem to be going, I recommend underground service cable. It is required where I live.

Also, think about surface mounted conduit. I did my shop that way and I'm glad I did. You'll have an easier install, and flexibility to add/alter circuits.


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## habitat (Jan 28, 2019)

Don't forget internet,comes in handy when researching plans


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

Only thing I can add is, go with one window, put 220 outlets with your 110 so you have tool flexibility, keep drywall that is there blowing in insulation, save the funds to put in a bathroom or at least a sink.


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## Mainboom (Jan 24, 2019)

Dallas.. don't get me wrong learning to do certain thinks is all fine and good. the only thing I really wasn't sure on was the electrical. but my wife has been a union electrican for 23 years and even thought she only wired the panel it was a help since I knew nothing about wiring. in the end its really not that hard once you get it down. I just think that tearing out all that drywall is a waste of money and time. that's why im saying you can have an eletrican fish the walls

you can put a new 125amp main lug panel in.then you will have enough space in the panel for further expantion. if you put anything smaller in with a 240v switch you will only get like 2 or 3 outlets. code you can only run 10 outlets per run ie per breaker. I have 10 well 9 breakers with 1 240v plug and a total of 13 outlets. 2 light switches 7 lights you could not run that on a smaller panel it just wouldn't be legal.

I completely agree with captainklutz that electrian is feeding you a line of bs find another one


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

All I'm going to say is add windows where possible. There is no replacement for natural light, especially when doing hand tool work.


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## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

- rwe2156 -
Thanks for the suggestion. There is an existing 50 amp subpanel in the space. There is a finished office upstairs that actually receives the bulk of that amperage. 5 circuits, one being a 220v/20 amp for a window heater/ac. I presently only have two circuits in the garage. One runs the lights and garage door. Another about 9 outlets. So I'm hurting for power in there. I will most likely put a mini-split with two zones (up and downstairs) that will require 220v/25 amps on it's own.

I'm getting a second quote soon.

The first electrician looked at my power requirements and said he'd through in the 125 amp box. Here's the language in his quote:

2 options- a. New meter with space for 125A breaker to feed garage for future
option - b. Run a larger wire gauge from main panel for more amps to garage
; run the risk of issues later with power usage, and lower limit of Circuit
availability for future items $ 1085 for the meter change and new feed to
garage with trench already open And if ready to go forward with
reconfigurations of circuits at the same time then total of job would be $
2,115.00 The additional cost of the job would be determined once cost of
materials at the time are evaluated and then added to final price/bill If jobs
are done at different times other charges may be included to cover trip costs

- Mainboom -
I have read a pretty long book on wiring. Wired a few outlets, switches and fixtures. Nothing approaching even adding a new circuit. Not that I don't think I could do it, but this is a little outside my comfort zone. So it's best to have him do it.

I am planning on putting a mini-split in the space, I think, so I think insulation might be in order. Whether blown in or pulling drywall down, whether by me or someone else.

It looks like the bigger panel (or at least more than 50 amps) will be a better choice if I do what I plan with the space. Thanks for the take on it.

I'm reading posts on here and watching videos to see how others handled their situations as well.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

If I'm reading that right, for about $1K more, you'll have a much better setup. That's the way I would go.

That said, I ran my shop off a 60A feed from my house for >25 years. That includes a 5HP compressor and 3 - 3HP machines + other 240V machines + a 110V DC.

Long story short, it was direct burial and I lost the neutral so it was rewire vs. new service. I ended up sinking $4K in a 200A service.

Functionally, I can't really tell the difference but its certainly a better feeling knowing when I expand my shop in the future, I'm not limited. And if the day comes I'm able to do central air/heat.


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## bndawgs (Oct 21, 2016)

If you're tearing down the drywall, you may think about putting plywood back up.


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## Mainboom (Jan 24, 2019)

> If you re tearing down the drywall, you may think about putting plywood back up.
> 
> - Steve


dry wall is actually cheaper. plus 99% of city code requires 5/8 drywall on the celling. especially since he has a loft in the attic. guys I know have used sheet metal but its pretty expensive.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> If you re tearing down the drywall, you may think about putting plywood back up.
> 
> - Steve
> 
> ...


I could be wrong, but I think the plywood suggestion is for attaching anything anywhere you want on the plywood.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I wired a number of 110 outlets in the ceiling as well as a bunch of 48" LED lighting. I have cord reels on the 110 ceiling outlets.

I also added a 220 50 AMP outlet on dedicated breaker near the garage door so that I can run a 220V welder in the driveway.

Are you running Air lines throughout the shop?


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

1.) in wall music speakers… amazon alexa….audio/video incase you put 65" tv in there 
2.) 110v 25' reel, ceiling mount
3.) 220v 25' reel, ceiling mount
4.) wireless access point for internet
5.)consider route of your dust collection ducting to be clear of obstructions (ceiling blast gates take up more real estate than normal blast gates, for example) and to have ceiling studs known for when it comes time to suspend ducting
6.) if i had to re-do my lighting, i would add perimeter can lighting to my rows of existing T8's, which would make it 3 zones. Hmm.. guess 1 zone could be T8's, 2nd zone could be cans and abolish zone3. softer on the eyes 
7.) fireman's pole. always wanted a fireman's pole.
8.) motion detection security light above garage door. you will be coming home after sundown with a lumber run that needs to be put away. better with electrical light than moon light.
9.) do you really need to work on the flooring? I still am using default cement garage flooring. Considered epoxy or even PVC but eh… not expecting my shop to be photographed for "Tricked Out Garages 4 U" magazine. Besides, you'll probably add foam tiles or such later on anyways for standing stations.


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## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

"fireman's pole"

Told my wife we could get a pole that runs from the upstairs office to the garage. Downstairs, it's called a "fire pole", upstairs is named something entirely different.

She didn't find it amusing. Looks like I have more convincing to do.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> "fireman s pole"
> Told my wife we could get a pole that runs from the upstairs office to the garage. Downstairs, it s called a "fire pole", upstairs is named something entirely different.
> 
> She didn t find it amusing. Looks like I have more convincing to do.
> ...


DAMHIK, 
but you can't easily use fireman's pole for the 'upstairs' pole. Things either slip below floor, or you need a 3-4" thick heavy sub-floor clamped around the pole that can not move, which makes it useless in case of 'fire'. I found it too hard to switch back and forth easily? YMMV 
Suggest you might as well only pick one, or plan on installing both in different locations. :-0)

PS - There are places that offer beginner and advance exercise classes on use of 'upstairs' pole. If your wife takes a class on how use the pole for exercise, she might actually request one?

PPS - In order for fire pole installation to met building code requirements, it needs some removable safety netting, signage, and maybe more depending on height. Check with your county building inspector before installing one.

Best Luck on work shop design, wink, wink,


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I just saw that a school principal was fired for showing her students how to use a fireman's pole at a school assembly…

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/asia/china-pole-dancing-school-intl/index.html


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## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

Didn't upgrade the electrical. Still have only two 110v circuits.

Spent more time planning how to get most things on wheels and off the floor.

I am going to save and invest in a better shop a few years down the road.

For now, it's as portable as I can get:

- Flippable top miter saw table on casters. 
- Hinged top assembly table on casters with storage for bandsaw, drill press, mortiser
- Handtool workbench on Rockler raiseable casters. 
- Clamp Cart

The three tables in the middle can be rolled together to make one large 4'x8' surface or a U shape.

Cleaned the floor. Hung three wood racks. Added projector and screen plus some tunes via Alexa and Bluetooth speakers. Light bulbs are wifi and have a cheap box fan connected to a wifi plug. "Alexa, turn on Workshop" raises the lights and gets the fan cooling the space.

Spent more on the Dewalt Flexvolt tools that will serve as my primary woodworking tools for now. Later, they will transition to my 'mobile tool set' when I upgrade electrical, table saw, dust collector.

I can even fit two cars in if I play a little Tetris with the pieces. Pretty cluttered at the moment. I still have strollers and family stuff that prevents me from completely taking over the garage.

One day…


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## drzaius (Nov 20, 2014)

I'll comment on the electrical because that is my expertise. If you need to defer some work because of budget, then a new service would be a good thing to leave for later. 50A will run a small shop like yours without difficulty. Adding AC may cause problems though. And don't charge the car while running the shop.

$2000 for a new 125A service to the garage sounds like a very good price, but I'm wondering why you are adding a new service, and will the utility even allow a second service at the same address (can't do that here). It would certainly be a lot cheaper to just increase the existing sub-panel feeder size.

I have only a 100A service to the house & then a 70A sub-panel in my shop. When I start my 5 HP DC, the lights don't dim or flicker a bit. If it did, I'd be looking for the reason why, because if it's built to code in an urban environment, that should not be happening.


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## DallasBentley (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks for sharing your expertise drzaius. I kind of assumed that I needed more than I really may need. I do not know if my jurisdiction allows a second service anyway.

So, I could just jump from 50A to 70A to the subpanel then. That could certainly would help matters. Leave a fewer amps for the house, but I guess it only matters if you are doing energy intensive work in the garage and the house at the same time.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Why invest the recurring monthly customer fees in a second service? It adds up, even if you can get it. Put the $ into an upgrade to the existing. A better selling point down the road. Like wanting 3 phase in a residential area…if you can get it, you will pay out the …...


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## Renegade1LI (Jan 21, 2020)

My shop is 700 sq ft with a loft, I try to run all the tools at 220 which is more efficient than 110, most lights are led which really reduces your load. I have a 100 amp sup being fed from a 200 amp main panel, never an issue, I have ca for the main house, window unit & electric space heater for shop, all works well. What I have done is picked up some 3 phase tools & run them off inverters, my pm90 lathe draws 2 1/2 amps, shaper 3 amps plus rpm control, put an amp probe on each tool, you'll be amazed how little they really draw. Table saw is 3hp 220, run with lights on, ac, dust collector never dimmed a light or popped a breaker. Just make sure to size the wire correctly, it's always better to upsize, I ran 12ga to all 110 recpt, if it's close to the limit go down a ga, less heat & resistance.


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