# At my wits end??



## Navysniper7 (May 26, 2021)

I am what most would consider a hobbyist woodworker. Being a disabled veteran, I have found that diving into a good woodworking project really helps on several different fronts. I currently am in the beginning of creating a new loft bed for my son. 
So instead of just butt gluing the boards together I wanted stronger joints. I purchased the Amana 1/2" Finger Joint Router Bit #45769. But my dilemma is that I am simply unable to find a proper setting to be able to use this bit. I am at my wits end, and after trying for several hours I now feel like I am getting no where. My hope was to be able to glue the joints and then plane down to the final thickness. But it is almost like the stock is to thick for the bit?? 
Several days ago, I even tried to contact the company for assistance, but am still waiting to hear something back. Can anyone please help me to resolve my set up issue? And it maybe something very simple or perhaps something that I haven't even thought of trying. I really appreciate any suggestions and or advice anyone maybe able to give.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

I am not a pro but sometimes it helps to describe the Router / Table / lift and type of joint that you have.

What is the exact problem with your joint ?

I am sure you tried a test piece, what is not fitting ?

What speed are you running the bit at ?

45769 is listed as a 7 piece set.

are you trying to route the entire bit all at once or are you raising it up and taking multiple passes ?

Don't do what I did, my router table and I had a fight a few months back, it (I) kept screwing up so I took
a hammer to it, I have a wavy front lip, an 8" crack, and another $200 top to buy.

I hope this helps others to help you identify the problem.

P.S. My Navy gun was a RIM 7M


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Things like that are always a pain to get dialed in Navysniper. No matter what the manufacturers would have us believe, there are no magic bullets ;-)

The first thing that comes to mind is that you will have to get the bit centered on your stock and your stock has to all be the same thickness. Then run the first board with the "show" face up and the second with with the "show" face down. That way, any minor error in profile being centered will be accounted for.

I'm making the assumption that you're using a table-mounted router and using the bit to cut endgrain joints. If not, please provide a little more information on your setup  Also, some more detail on what exactly the problem is with the fit of the joint will let us give you some better suggestions.

Thank you for your service and welcome to Lumberjocks!

*Edit to add:* What router are you using and what kind of wood?


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> Don t do what I did, my router table and I had a fight a few months back, it (I) kept screwing up so I took
> a hammer to it, I have a wavy front lip, an 8" crack, and another $200 top to buy.
> 
> - OldBull


I too can get a nasty temper when things don't go well. My daughter gave me a note on her wedding day it said "Dad you taught me in life that sometime you just gotta break ********************."

To the OP, This is why I decided not to get a dovetail jig. I hear they can make a preacher cuss and this doesn't sound much better. Any possibility of cutting these on a table saw or are these long side rails? I think there are some bolts made for these and remember that it will need to break down to get through a door.


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## mdhills (Mar 12, 2011)

I believe this might be the 45796 finger-joint bit.

I haven't used these bits; HokieKen's post matches my expectations. I'd think it will get a bit trickier if you have really long pieces for the bed.

Are your work pieces flat and less than 1.5" in thickness?

Which part of the assembly are you using the finger joint on?


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

Are you splicing two boards together lengthwise? That's what that bit is for. It's not for corners. An alternative most of us would use is called a scarf joint. Google it. Of course most of us wouldn't splice wood like that to begin with.

If you are trying to make a corner, then a box joint joint is a nice option, but it's certainly not the easiest option.
Dowel, loose tenon, or even a pocket hole would be reasonable alternatives. You make a box joint with a straight bit and a jig. And then there is the Dovetail joint.


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

I agree with mdhills and brtech. Can you be a bit more specific about what you are building including some photos and/or sketches? I can't help but wonder if there is a better, easier, joint for a project like that. Of course, I know you would still like to know how to set up the set up the tool you have. Some additional information would help with that as well. For a loft bed project, I'm not sure where you would need the #45796 bit for improved joints.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

Perhaps post a photo of the two pieces mated together, or how they are not mated together. Oftehn these type of bits have a set-up block that you can purchase separately to assist. If not, when you get it correct, make one for next time, I think Rockler sells the stock to make them. Can you not find materials long enough? Finger joints aren't commonly used by wood workers. Some mills and cheap furniture makers use them to piece together scraps.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 show picture of what is being joined.

FWIW - I can not think of anywhere on loft bed I would use that router bit, and I have built several loft beds. 
That router bit is sometimes called a 'board stretcher'. There is no part of loft long enough to need boards longer than available from lumber yard?

PS - The 45796 bit linked above is weird way to cut finger joint? 
Looking at profile, only way to make it work is by center board to profile and running each end of joint twice flipping the faces and run one time on each face. This requires boards the exact same thickness to work.

Am used to a finger joint bit that looks more like Amana 55392 to make finger joints with one pass per board end. 
YMMV


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

For joints on beds I tend to be specific purpose hardware, like
https://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-wrought-steel-bed-rail-fasteners-4-pack-select-size

Or similar on Amazon . Can't think of where I would ever use that bit personally


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Are you trying to joint the long edges of 2 boards together? A little more information about what you are doing and pictures of the result showing the problem might help with diagnosis. Are you using a router table or with handheld router for example?

The process that HokieKen stated in his second paragraph is the process you should follow. Basically, as long as the mating boards are milled from opposite sides (one top face, the other bottom) and both boards are flat and the same thickness, the setup should not really matter, even if you don't center it as recommended, as long as you don't change the setup between cuts. One key though is that you should make sure that you use a fence or edge guide to ensure that the depth of the cut into the edge is the same on both boards along its entire length. This could be tricky if you are doing this with handheld router so using a router table is best where once you setup the fence you use it in the same setup for both boards. Note, if you are joining ends of boards, you also need to make sure you keep the boards square to the fence.

BTW, if you are simply making wider boards by edge gluing, This sort of joint is not really necessary. As long as the edges make contact along their entire length, glue and clamps will make joints that are nearly unbreakable.


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## Navysniper7 (May 26, 2021)

I am attempting to use the #45769 finger joint bit to be able to give me a stronger joint on the end grain sections of my stock. Currently my stock is at all the same thickness of 1 11/32" thick. I have centered the bit in the stock. I have also flipped the matching surfaces. But it is as if the stock is to thick. I have my router set up in my router table, to insure straight, even and accurate cuts. But the current setup leaves excess material making the joining of the 2 pieces impossible. I have been able to properly setup the bit for joining 5/4" stock together. But again at 111/32" it appears that the current stock is just to thick.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

According to Amana, the cutting height is 1-9/16" on that bit so you should be able to do stock up to 6/4.

Are you cutting deep enough so that the inside, flat portion of the bit is cleaning up the end grain of your board? If you don't cut deep enough, you might not be removing enough material at the top and bottom faces of the board so that the corresponding fingers are not able to slip fully in.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Are you using a coping sled on the router table or a miter gauge? It seems like it would be difficult to work end grain on long pieces on the router table.

I'm just asking. I've never cut end grain on the router table myself.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Yeah, you need to use a miter sled to cut. Use the same setup you would for cutting rails.

*Lazyman:*
The centering certainly *does* matter. Any centering error doubles at the mated surfaces. Get your DRO or dial indicator out and get the settings for your current thickness.

Practice with scrap and WRITE DOWN measure AND thickness when you get it dialed in. This type of cutter is for production use where the "once in its lifetime" setup isn't such a chore.

Each thickness change will require a tweak. Get a DRO on your planer and a digital height indicator to set the bit.

You can't easily "plane out" a height offset. It'll stubbornly leave a ghost and take four passes minimum to try and get out. Think mid-board doubled snipe.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

A picture of the result would definitely help but I think the problem may be that you cannot actually use the entire 1-9/6 cutter height for the joint. So if I am thinking about this right, with the bit setup centered on the board, the highest the bit can be is where the base of the bottom tooth is even with the table. I'll bet if you measure between the base of the bottom tooth and the base of the top tooth, you will find that it is less than the thickness of your board. Or with the bit setup where the bottom tooth is flush to the table, see if the top of the board protrudes above the top of the top tooth.

EDIT to add: it could be that the highest you can set the bit is so that half or less of the bottom tooth is above the table top?


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> Yeah, you need to use a miter sled to cut. Use the same setup you would for cutting rails.
> 
> *Lazyman:*
> The centering certainly *does* matter. Any centering error doubles at the mated surfaces. Get your DRO or dial indicator out and get the settings for your current thickness.
> ...


Because the teeth are equally spaced and both boards are exactly the same thickness, I don't think it matters. Draw a line anywhere across the profile that indicates where the table is and then draw another line say 1/2" up for the board thickness and I think that you will find that the inverted profiles will interlink.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

They'll mesh everywhere but the last tooth. If what you say is true the OP wouldn't be having this issue. The cutter height *HAS* to be centered on the given stock thickness. Any variation will show 2x at the surface. This is same issue that plagues R&S cutter sets.

Flipping the board changes the reference face and thickness variation requires a cutter position change.

In a production shop this cutter is right after the final thickness planer.


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## Gary (Jul 24, 2006)

> …I currently am in the beginning of creating a new loft bed for my son.
> So instead of just butt gluing the boards together I wanted stronger joints. … My hope was to be able to glue the joints and then plane down to the final thickness. …


Thank you for your service.

Can you describe how you intend to use a board joined this way in the bed?
In 20+ years, I've never used the pictured bit for joining anything structural.


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## AGolden (Mar 22, 2020)

I may be misinterpreting the issue because I can't actually see the parts going together but my understanding is that the thickness of your boards is larger than the distance between the edge of the fins and the bearing on the bit. 









if That is the case one option might be to cut a rabbet in one of your boards so that the remaining piece is the right thickness to match the depth of the fingers. 









i know it's a crappy drawing but hopefully you can at least tell me if I am totally off base.


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## Navysniper7 (May 26, 2021)

As I continued to mess around with the fine tuning, I actually found out that as I have been try dial in the setup, the router has been vibrating down slowly. Apparently the lock no longer has enough grab. So I will run and purchase a new router and then my hope is that I will be able to get the bit setup finally complete. But, I guess time will tell. I will post again once the new router setup has been tried.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

That will do it… Good luck with the next router!


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## Navysniper7 (May 26, 2021)

So getting a new router helped but I am still being faced with a overhang issue on both faces, which I fear will severely affect the final planer thickness of each board. I have attached a photo that hopefully illustrates my current issue.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

You're ending on a full finger. Should be a *half.*


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## Navysniper7 (May 26, 2021)

After trying some more adjustments, the photo shows it all. The joint would line up, if not for the overhang material?? I am just so frustrated because I seriously don't see how this is going to work??


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Your board is too thick for the usable cutter. The board cannot be any thicker than the distance between the top and bottom teeth.

Edit: . EDIT2: Whoops said that wrong… You might be able to get it to work if you manually cut off the *extra narrow half* tooth on each side?


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

It would fit if not for the one fat tooth. The centering seems right. Your stock might be thicker than the cutter range. How thick is your stock? The cutter is 1-9/16" max. You sure you're at 1-11/32" and not 1-11/16?

I'd practice with 3/4 mdf until I figured it out.


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