# Adventures in Vacuum Veneering



## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

*Starting Out*

Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.

So I had to do a crash course in vacuum pressing. These pumps have two main specs: 27 IN HG which is how much vacuum it can pull, and 3.15 CFM which is cubic feet per minute or how fast it can move air. It turns out that the 27 IN HG is a bit too strong, so I ordered some parts from JoeWoodWorker to add some regulation. I will blog about that when the parts arrive.

!

Then I ordered some veneer from eBay. It turns out that there are a few places that will sell it for between $.50 and $1.00 a square foot. Not bad. I am not really looking for exotics right now so I ordered some curly cherry, some African rosewood (not sure why), and some quarter sawn cherry. This is how they arrived. Each flitch of the QS cherry is 6 feet long, beautiful stuff.

!

Lacking any idea of what I was doing, I bought a heavy duty shower curtain liner from Bed Bath and Beyond and fashioned a vacuum bag. (It is 8mil thick, actually really nice stuff). I fed a hose from the air compressor through some rubber grommets and threaded it into a block of scrap with grooves in the bottom to let the vacuum disperse. I used a piece of marble as a flat reference, made up a sandwich of cherry+1/2"MDF+cherry topped off with a piece of MDF wrapped in wax paper for a platen. Stuck it in the 'bag' and turned on the pump. It worked quite handsomely. I left the pump running for about an hour and then removed it.

!

Here is the result. Beautiful cherry and flat as can be.

!

I decided to play a bit more. I read that you do not have to use a top platen every time if you use some 'breather mesh' so I fashioned some out of a rain gutter cover. I made up a sandwich of rosewood and 1/4"MDF and let the bag do its thing.

!

But yikes! The pump was way too powerful and started pulling the glue right through the veneer.

!

I removed the sandwich, and wiped down the veneer with a wet cloth. What a mess, the veneer started to buckle really badly.

!

So I went back to the platen concept and just smushed it all back together inside the bag. After a while, I removed it and cleaned it up. Not bad.

!

I have a lot to learn, but this is really cool.
Steve


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## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it is!


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## Drewskie (Jun 27, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Here is a good resource that i use for valves and parts for our pumps, and every thing is very reasonably priced. They also have plans and DIY how two's for putting to gather auto cycling pumps, parts and vinyl for bags, glue's, and just about everything veneer related for the beginner and professional. The guy is always adding to his site and inventory.

www.veneersupplies.com


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Drewskie, thanks. That is where I ordered my stuff from. It is JoeWoodWorkers companion site. I ordered the EVS kit. No bag though. I really want to make a press instead.

Is it OK to leave the veneers rolled up like that?

Steve


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## Drewskie (Jun 27, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


I say if its a paper backed veneer yes. But for raw veneer i would store the peices between scraps of melamine or ply and then tape or plastic wrap, this will keep it flat and from self destruction. The veneer will dry out, crack and split. I have also made a fold in a thick cardboard and stored it that way.


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## Drewskie (Jun 27, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


If your looking for vinyl for a bag most big fabric stores and some hardware stores sell 54" wide stuff by the yard. I think i made my first bag for $15.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Steve: I use the highest vacuum pressure that I can get. It sometimes depends upon the outside air pressure. Sometimes the pump will not turn off so I reduce the vacuum switch so that it will cycle on and off. But usually around the 27 LB range. I don't like the mesh because I've found that it doesn't press the veneer tight to the substrate.

What I do is I've covered a 2' X 4' piece of plywood with butcher paper that has a plastic coating to keep meat juices from running out of the package. I use the paper coverd plywood as the base of what I put in the bag. The veneer glue doesn't stick to it very well. I then put the veneer on the lower caul and put my glued substrate on top of it. That way I don't have to keep cutting cauls that match the size of what I'm veneering. The substrate acts as the caul.

I have most of my veneers laying flat on racks There is some that I've never unrolled.

I plan to make an open topped veneer press where I use only one side of a veneer bag because it sometimes becomes a hassle to get all of the pieces in the bag and not have them slide around on you..

Have fun and a great buy on your pump. I bought a 230 Volt printing press vacuum pump that I've not hocked up yet. It was new and I got it at a junk yard for $25.00 The current pump I use I got on ebay from a mechanic who was afraid to use it to vacuum the air conditioner lines prior to filling them with freon. he thought it might collapse the line. I didn't want to tell him it wouldn't so I could get the pump for a great price.

Have fun, give me a call if you have any questions.


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## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


I love that you used a shower curtain.


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Drewskie, I'll check it out. Nice stuff on your website.

Blake 

Thanks Karson. I really want to make an open topped press too. I have already had enough troubles with the 'bag', but we will see.

Do I read you right that you only veneer one side of the substrate? Can you get away with that? Or maybe one side at a time. (?) I do have an application where I want to use some of that cherry on 3/4" MDF, and I am thinking I might be able to get away with only one side. (?)

I'm pumped 
Steve


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## Drewskie (Jun 27, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Ya, you got make a "Balanced panel" that means both sides or you risk warpage and frustration, although it dose not necessarily mean have to be the same species. When i do lay ups i usually use a birch or maple backer because its cheaper and its what i'm using on the interior of the cab. On the VG teak kitchen in my projects the panels are sequenced Vertical Grain Teak on the face, un-sequenced flat cut teak on the back, and a supper refined MDF core because its supper stable. Although i must say we did not lay up the 20 some panels in our vacuum press, we had selected the sheet from a local dealer an then we set it all to a mill to have processed. 
A frame press is an awesome idea. I suggest making your frame out of something non poris like tube aluminum or steel, fasten the corners and seal with silicone. As for the seal deftly closed cell foam available at most hard ware stores. And lastly make sure you tent up your vinyl so that there is not a lot of tension created by a stretching bag, you will either warp your frame or flex up your platen.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


You will enjoy playing with your press. You can also use it as a clamp

I am working on a project right now using my vacuum pump. It's a lot of fun.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


I veneer both sides, Usually, but I'll do it in two passes of the veneer press, if it's large. Drawer fronts where I'm going to screw it to a drawer only gets 1 side.

All 1/4" stuff for sure. If I'm putting it in a stile and rail I might only do i side (1/2" and above) I've never had any problems with thicker pieces, where they are locked into place.

I've only limitedly tried vacuum clamping, but I've seen it work at Lee Jesbergers shop. We picked up a piece of Elm 4X6 X 4' and the vacuum clamp was about 6 Sq inches in size.


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Neat post Steve its peaking my interest as well. Going to put a search in soon on craigslist for a pump.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


I just use the Roarrockit Kit...


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


I picked up one of those Thomas pumps a while ago on eBay. Picked up a compressor tank on eBay also. Mounted the pump on it and machined a manifold for all the plumbing, had it anodized and have the valves, quick disconnects, gauge, vacuum switch, and filter all nicely mounted on it. I pulled 25" Hg when I'm laminating something. I don't think 27" Hg is too high, but obviously it was based on the glue pulling through. Never had that happen.

Using a tank allows me to get a head start, as I'm preparing the item I turn the pump on, when it hits 25" Hg it shuts off. Then when I'm ready I connect the hose and open the valve, sucks it down in no time. Then the pump cycles on and off to keep the vacuum at 25" Hg. That way I can leave it overnight and it's not running constantly. The vacuum switch is also adjustable so I can set it to any level I want.


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Starting Out*
> 
> Funny how things happen. I was cruising Craig's List and spotted a guy selling a laboratory grade vacuum pump. I contacted him about it, and could it work for woodworking. He said no, but that he had some pumps that would work. I went over to his house which was only 4 miles away. He had four brand new pumps that he sold to me for $15 each. I found them on the web for $285 each. Woo Hoo. I sold two of them to guys at work, and kept two for myself.
> 
> ...


Steve, great find on the pumps. Welcome to the wonderful world of vacuum veneering.

I personally have never used the mesh. I feel that a caul or platen on top is mandatory if you want to get good panels 100% of the time. You can use pretty much anything that's flat. I sometimes use 1/8" masonite, and have even taped smaller pieces together to make larger cauls. One word of caution if you go that route. Don't put duct tape against the veneer, as the thickness will leave a depression in the veneer.

You can get vinyl for bags from JoeWoodworker. I got mine from a marine canvas supplier for a little less. Here's a source for 20 mil for $7 /yard. http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=248&

Due to space limitations, I have all my veneer rolled up in boxes. Doesn't hurt it, but makes it a bit harder to tape up due to the fact that when you bookmatch it, the curls direction alternates. Flat is better, if you have the room. And covering it with some MDF helps to keep it flat.

I've been working on some plans for a large frame press/ assembly table. I'll probably be changing the design a little, but hope to start building it in the next few months.


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

*Pimpin' the Pump*

Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.

I installed a complete complement of parts to make my vacuum pump more usable. I pretty much added a kit from JoeWoodWorker and followed his lead. My pump now is on a carrier with a handle and an On/Off switch. This alone would usually be enough for me to celebrate. But there's more…

I also added a vacuum controller that allows me to dial in the amount of pressure that I want. It is the little black box with the black tubing. It directly turns off the pump. But when you turn off a vacuum pump, you must relieve pressure to the pump, or it will not start again. Hence the Mac valve which is the blue valve sticking out from the front of the pump. It is wired in parallel with the pump. When the pump shuts down, it opens up, and relieves the pressure to the motor through a breather fitting. But there is a check, or one-way valve underneath the Mac value, and a small reservoir out of PVC pipe above it. The reservoir will hold spare vacuum and helps smooth the starts and stops of the motor.

There are two large PVC canisters that I made that hold spare vacuum. These work just like the tank on an air compressor. I also have a gauge and a shut off valve. And I installed a filter to the inlet of the pump.




























Steve


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## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


wow, neat!


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


Great Steve. It looks somewhat like mine.

I have a mac valve also even though my pump doesn't have a problem starting with a full vacuum. The problem that I had was the vacuum bleeding back through the pump and thereby causing it to come on sooner than normal.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


I built one pretty close to this one from joes plans also. Good job.


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


Steve, that is pretty neat. I have got to get into veneering one day. It looks like it would be a lot of fun.


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


That cool stuff Steve thank for in site on building a vacuum pump…Blkcherry


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


This is getting interesting. Until now I have just kind of not paid attention to veneering. Now I'm starting to think about the possibilities. Just what I need - more projects!


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## LeeJ (Jul 4, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


Hi Steve;

Looks real good.

Congrats on the 1,000 posts.

Lee


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## cabinetmaster (Aug 28, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


I just got to get to building me one of these pumps. Veneering has really got into my blood and I want to learn how to do it myself. Got to get me a pump built.


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## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


As craftsmen we create designs that revolve around our abilities. The vacuum press opens up a lot more possibilities with veneer and bent laminations.

You will love using this tool.


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## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


Nice Steve I will be making one like this very soon.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

SPalm said:


> *Pimpin' the Pump*
> 
> Woo Hoo, this is my 1,000 post. Another checkpoint in life.
> 
> ...


Steve,

Nice job on the vac, I have studied these on Joes site as well but I have not built one yet I still use my roarocket kit and hand pump, or a screw down veneer press.


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

*Adding a Frame Press*

I have been using a shower curtain liner for my vacuum bag. It is folded over and clamped with wood strips and spring clamps. This was really hard to get to work effectively as there were a lot of moving parts. I want to make a proper bag someday, but for now I really wanted to build a frame press. The concept is to make a frame with vinyl stretched across it and weather stripping foam on the bottom. Then I only need to set the veneer glue-up on a melamine assembly table and place this frame on top of it. When I apply vacuum, it will pull the frame tight against the table and pull the vinyl tight against the glue-up. It makes working by myself a lot easier and allows me to place the work a bit more precisely.

So I built a 2' by 4' frame out of some white oak from the scrap bin. This was the first time that I used pocket screws. It was fast, but really hard to get the two pieces to lay flat. Not sure I really like them. I am sure that I need to practice more. Maybe clamping better would help? I wish they had an indexing spline or something like a miniature biscuit. Anyway I recovered by sending the assembled frame through the thickness sander one corner at a time. It worked like a champ. I am impressed at the strength of the joint.

This picture shows the frame after I sealed it with shellac to make it more air tight. It is sitting on wax paper.










This picture shows the frame after adding the gasket to the top, stretching vinyl across it, and then screwing down (spalted) oak to hold the vinyl. And yes, it is still shower curtain liner. 8 mil. The screwed cauls allow it to be replaced.










I then flipped the frame over and added two strips of the gasket stripping to the bottom. This is pretty special gasket tape foam designed for this type of application. It is super dense and meant to be compressed.










And I added a new improved quick release connector through the vinyl in the corner. It has grooves in the bottom to allow the vacuum to spread around. The nature of the frame improves the way the vacuum can disperse as there is always a small triangle all the way around the frame where the vinyl cannot pull all the way down.










The test drives did not go without some problems. Mainly the frame did not always completely seal against the melamine when the vacuum was first applied. If I added some spring clamps to the two long sides, I was able to complete the vacuum. I could then remove the clamps and maintain good pressure. So maybe I will try to come up with some easy and light duty clamps. Maybe just weight might even do it.

The 8 mil shower curtain has been holding up quite well. Lots of test drives. I obtained some better breather mesh that lies between the glue-up and the vinyl. It does make things remarkably easier as compared to using flat wooden cauls. The plastic mesh also smoothes the edges and corners from poking through the vinyl.










Steve


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Adding a Frame Press*
> 
> I have been using a shower curtain liner for my vacuum bag. It is folded over and clamped with wood strips and spring clamps. This was really hard to get to work effectively as there were a lot of moving parts. I want to make a proper bag someday, but for now I really wanted to build a frame press. The concept is to make a frame with vinyl stretched across it and weather stripping foam on the bottom. Then I only need to set the veneer glue-up on a melamine assembly table and place this frame on top of it. When I apply vacuum, it will pull the frame tight against the table and pull the vinyl tight against the glue-up. It makes working by myself a lot easier and allows me to place the work a bit more precisely.
> 
> ...


Wow, do you ever work fast. I'll be lucky to have my frame press done in a year from now. Nice work. You might want to consider switching to polyurethane at some point for more durability. My 30 mil vinyl has some small pinholes from corners poking through after about 8 years of use. But if you do get any holes, duct tape is a quick patch that seals remarkably well.

Since I'll be building a dedicated table for mine, I planned on using some threaded inserts and studded knobs to hold it in place until the vacuum pulls it down, to help with the initial pull. Mine will be about 3×7, so it'll probably be a bit trickier to get started.

Anyway, again, nice job.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *Adding a Frame Press*
> 
> I have been using a shower curtain liner for my vacuum bag. It is folded over and clamped with wood strips and spring clamps. This was really hard to get to work effectively as there were a lot of moving parts. I want to make a proper bag someday, but for now I really wanted to build a frame press. The concept is to make a frame with vinyl stretched across it and weather stripping foam on the bottom. Then I only need to set the veneer glue-up on a melamine assembly table and place this frame on top of it. When I apply vacuum, it will pull the frame tight against the table and pull the vinyl tight against the glue-up. It makes working by myself a lot easier and allows me to place the work a bit more precisely.
> 
> ...


Steve: A fast worker, Great looking frame. Nice job on the build. You've given me some ideas for my frame.


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## cabinetmaster (Aug 28, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Adding a Frame Press*
> 
> I have been using a shower curtain liner for my vacuum bag. It is folded over and clamped with wood strips and spring clamps. This was really hard to get to work effectively as there were a lot of moving parts. I want to make a proper bag someday, but for now I really wanted to build a frame press. The concept is to make a frame with vinyl stretched across it and weather stripping foam on the bottom. Then I only need to set the veneer glue-up on a melamine assembly table and place this frame on top of it. When I apply vacuum, it will pull the frame tight against the table and pull the vinyl tight against the glue-up. It makes working by myself a lot easier and allows me to place the work a bit more precisely.
> 
> ...


I have got to favorite this blog. Thanks for the great blog. Really got me going now.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Adding a Frame Press*
> 
> I have been using a shower curtain liner for my vacuum bag. It is folded over and clamped with wood strips and spring clamps. This was really hard to get to work effectively as there were a lot of moving parts. I want to make a proper bag someday, but for now I really wanted to build a frame press. The concept is to make a frame with vinyl stretched across it and weather stripping foam on the bottom. Then I only need to set the veneer glue-up on a melamine assembly table and place this frame on top of it. When I apply vacuum, it will pull the frame tight against the table and pull the vinyl tight against the glue-up. It makes working by myself a lot easier and allows me to place the work a bit more precisely.
> 
> ...


very cool adventure. even though you end up running into some minor issues, it looks pretty spot on. thanks for posting this Steve. It'll come into use in the future (hopefully).


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Adding a Frame Press*
> 
> I have been using a shower curtain liner for my vacuum bag. It is folded over and clamped with wood strips and spring clamps. This was really hard to get to work effectively as there were a lot of moving parts. I want to make a proper bag someday, but for now I really wanted to build a frame press. The concept is to make a frame with vinyl stretched across it and weather stripping foam on the bottom. Then I only need to set the veneer glue-up on a melamine assembly table and place this frame on top of it. When I apply vacuum, it will pull the frame tight against the table and pull the vinyl tight against the glue-up. It makes working by myself a lot easier and allows me to place the work a bit more precisely.
> 
> ...


I know I mentioned the Roarrockit kit before… but as to sealing the bag they have available rolls of sealant tape… reuseable…works a treat … this might be of help I hope…
Larry


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *Adding a Frame Press*
> 
> I have been using a shower curtain liner for my vacuum bag. It is folded over and clamped with wood strips and spring clamps. This was really hard to get to work effectively as there were a lot of moving parts. I want to make a proper bag someday, but for now I really wanted to build a frame press. The concept is to make a frame with vinyl stretched across it and weather stripping foam on the bottom. Then I only need to set the veneer glue-up on a melamine assembly table and place this frame on top of it. When I apply vacuum, it will pull the frame tight against the table and pull the vinyl tight against the glue-up. It makes working by myself a lot easier and allows me to place the work a bit more precisely.
> 
> ...


Steve I was not overly impressed with the plastic mesh, because I found that it doesn't give full surface contact and help in pressing down bubbles in the veneer. What i've been doing lately, is veneering upside down. By that I mean put the veneered side on the bottom and then your substrate becomes your caul. If I need to veneer both sides, I'll let it sit in the press for a couple of hours, and then do the other side. Putting the new veneer on the bottom again. This has saved me from having a pile of different sized cauls.

Steve I've also fallen in love with butcher paper. It's the paper that butchers wrap your meat in to keep any juices from seeping through to the outside. It has a plastic coating on one side. In my case it keeps glue from seeping through and gluing multiple pieces together. I may stack 3 or 4 pieces that are the same size on top of one another and veneer them at the same time.


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

*First Lessons Learned*

*1) A soft glue roller really works well.*
All I can say is I am impressed. This seemingly cheap roller spreads glue like paint. Just squirt glue out as normal and roll, up/down and left/right. The result is smooth and consistent throughout. Clean up is with soap and water.










*2) A veneer saw is great but needs a tune up.*

I tried both cutting with a knife and a veneer saw. For now, the saw wins. I guess that's why they still sell them every place veneer is sold. But mine needed a tune up. This saw is meant to cut on the pull stroke only. The teeth all point towards the handle, and actually this is the most obvious way to use it. The blade is removable and double sided, both sides are the same. Rotate when one side gets dull.

The blade needs to have its 'set' modified to work effectively. First remove the blade. Flatten the side that will ride against the straight edge on a water stone. Then flip the blade over. Now the top must be honed at an angle using a curved sweeping action. Using both hands to hold the blade worked the best for me. Keep honing until the saw points become more like little knifes than like a regular saw. It is now the best combination of a knife and a saw. It will cut a V into the veneer with the side next to the straight edge being vertical.

To use it, hold a fat straight edge board tightly down on the veneer, with a scrap board underneath to catch the cut. Pull the saw in long strokes from the top towards you, using a slightly rocking motion. It usually takes more than one stroke. Several veneers can be cut at one time.




























*3) Paper veneer tape is pretty good stuff.*

The standard paper veneer tape with holes works great. (This is the only tape that I know of that has the glue on the top side of the roll; Strange.) Tear off strips; do not cut, as the ragged edge becomes more hidden. The tape goes on the top, or non-glue side of the veneer. Activate the glue by wiping it across a wet sponge. Place several strips tightly across the joint, followed by one long piece running the entire length. Some people use temporary blue masking tape on the back side to pull the sheets together before veneer taping, but I found that an unnecessary step. But maybe this is needed for more unruly veneers.

This tape has a few nice features. It shrinks when it dries so the joint pulls together even tighter. It is thin so it does not leave any outline dents after coming out of the press. And it removes quite easily by wetting and scraping when all the glue has dried.



















*4) Don't try to bookmatch quarter sawn stock.*

This was a new one to me, and I guess it is the same with standard lumber. Quarter sawn lumber has really impressive rays that run perpendicular to the grain. This is one of the reasons it is sought after (it is also very dimensionally stable). But these rays really play with the light and will shift as you view the boards from different angles. If you bookmatch, the effect will be that one piece will look good from the left, and one piece will look better when viewed from the right. The result is kind of goofy. And anyway, the grain is so vertical that bookmatching really does not bring out the standard mirrored patterns.

*5) Don't get cocky about using a shower curtain liner.*

I was gluing up some double stacked 3/4" MDF and veneering the sides to see how some table legs might look. (I plan to complete the other sides too.) This was a bit much for the vinyl and I ended up puncturing my vinyl on two sharp corners. Wooden cauls with rounded corners would have saved me. So would have some stronger vinyl. From now on I will probably use both.










Steve


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## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *First Lessons Learned*
> 
> *1) A soft glue roller really works well.*
> All I can say is I am impressed. This seemingly cheap roller spreads glue like paint. Just squirt glue out as normal and roll, up/down and left/right. The result is smooth and consistent throughout. Clean up is with soap and water.
> ...


aw, shoot. I was rooting for the shower liner. I like this blog because veneering is something I haven't done yet but I'd like to get set up some day to do it. And your approach is just like mine most of the time… just dive in head first and figure it out as you go. That what makes it fun.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *First Lessons Learned*
> 
> *1) A soft glue roller really works well.*
> All I can say is I am impressed. This seemingly cheap roller spreads glue like paint. Just squirt glue out as normal and roll, up/down and left/right. The result is smooth and consistent throughout. Clean up is with soap and water.
> ...


I bought a similar (Hirsch) saw, but haven't used it. Manager at Woodcraft said to do exactly what you have done on the stone.

He also pointed out that on mine the teeth are different on each side, one side has directional angled teeth and the other side has 60 degree notch between each non-directional tooth. His advise was to file the directional angled teeth to match the non-directional 60 degree side.

I haven't either of the modification yet, was just getting the stuff together and really following your posts.

Couple years ago I was in a prototype shop that was vacuum forming vinyl to larger automotive interior parts. They had a 8 ft by 4 ft hinged frame almost identical to the veneer frame press. It had vacuum pump and used a rubber membrane instead of the clear plastic on the upper frame. I had asked at the time how often the rubber needed to be replaced and they said it was 5 years and still going so far. They used light duty spring clamps on the sides with explanation that once the vacuum caught, that it created its own seal with the rubber.

Steve.


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *First Lessons Learned*
> 
> *1) A soft glue roller really works well.*
> All I can say is I am impressed. This seemingly cheap roller spreads glue like paint. Just squirt glue out as normal and roll, up/down and left/right. The result is smooth and consistent throughout. Clean up is with soap and water.
> ...


Hey Blake, I haven't given totally up on the cheap vinyl yet. I bought another one to make a cheap bag like I had before if I want to do larger or curved panels. Ger21 put in a good link for less expensive 20mil vinyl, but I have not pulled the trigger yet. The Polyurethane plastic sheeting is supposed to be the toughest but $$$.

Ger21:
" Here's a source for 20 mil for $7 /yard. http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=248& "

Steve, My saw is from Two Cherries. I have some of their chisels and they have been good to me, so I thought 'what the heck'. I just checked on the web and both sets of teeth are angled back. I wonder why one would want one side without this. Maybe for more aggressive cuts?

Another really important lesson learned is to ground the vacuum pump. I have since run a grounding wire from the chassis to the switch box and tied it into the earth ground. Lets just say it was a little exciting when I went to check the temperature of the pump last night with my other hand on my grounded bandsaw. My body went kind of boogly.

Steve


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## Julian (Sep 30, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *First Lessons Learned*
> 
> *1) A soft glue roller really works well.*
> All I can say is I am impressed. This seemingly cheap roller spreads glue like paint. Just squirt glue out as normal and roll, up/down and left/right. The result is smooth and consistent throughout. Clean up is with soap and water.
> ...


I have used shower curtain in a pinch for a temporary bag, but it is no substitute for vinyl from joewoodworker. My vinyl bags that I built have lasted hole free with heavy use for over 3 years now.


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## Drewskie (Jun 27, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *First Lessons Learned*
> 
> *1) A soft glue roller really works well.*
> All I can say is I am impressed. This seemingly cheap roller spreads glue like paint. Just squirt glue out as normal and roll, up/down and left/right. The result is smooth and consistent throughout. Clean up is with soap and water.
> ...


I suggest going with the thickest vinyl you can afford i have 6-7 bags made out of the .2 vinyl. I love that you used a shower cutian linner, now thats some ingenuity. My experice is that i get about 10 uses on them before i have to start patching them, usally while ive got somthing in the bag im trying to press. We also fold them up and put them on a shelf which contrubutes to the degradation, we should probly roll them up on a large piece of PVC with some bungies.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *First Lessons Learned*
> 
> *1) A soft glue roller really works well.*
> All I can say is I am impressed. This seemingly cheap roller spreads glue like paint. Just squirt glue out as normal and roll, up/down and left/right. The result is smooth and consistent throughout. Clean up is with soap and water.
> ...


Lee Jesberger got me pointed to using scalpels to cut veneer. They are very thin and I sharpen them on a piece of cherry wood that I put the finest polishing rouge on and basically polish the cutting edge. They cut like a dream.

I went searching for scalpels and found autopsy scalpels that are throw away. They are plastic and don't take much pressure. The autopsy scalpel also don't have replaceable blades. I've broke a couple So I now went to the stainless handles and bought a package of blades. You only cut with the tip of the blade. I bought ones that have a curved edge. I don't know if they are any better than the ones that have a straight edge and go to a fine tip. Mine have at least some more blade bulk at the tip. I keep forgetting to ask Lee what blades he uses. I've only replaced a blade when the old one broke, never because it was dull. I always resharpen after every use.

What ever blade decision you go with you will live with it for the rest of your life. You will never run out of blades. The handles also use a couple of different style blades but the handles won't work for all blades. You need to get a blade/handle match.

I also a saw and use it when I've got some gnarly veneer and the blade wants to wander

I bought a completed bag and am using the same one after 5 years. I did buy a second bag when I found that he charged me too much on the first one so I got a second bag for the difference. It sits unused. I use epoxy glue to patch the small pin holes. I fill the bag with nothing (I guess that means I take out all of the air) and put a little glue over the hole. The vacuum pulls the glue into the hole and seals it.


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

*Lingerie Chest Build*

I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?

So I veneered two panels of 3/4 inch MDF with quarter-sawn cherry. They are about 42 inches by 14 inches. I used the home made shower curtain bag with my vacuum pump. That will probably be the last stuff I press with it. I think I have enough experience now to buy a real bag. Here is a picture with the panels and 4 legs. The legs are 4 feet tall by 1.5 inches square.









-------------------------------------------------

To continue with the veneering, I covered the seven drawer fronts with some nice plain-sliced cherry veneer. I used some not-so-pretty solid cherry for the substrate. The plan is to dovetail into the cherry substrate for the drawer sides, just like standard drawers.









-------------------------------------------------

I then made the eight drawer frames using standard tablesaw grooves and tenons. The fronts of these are solid cherry and the secondary wood is poplar. I used 1/4 inch MDF triangles in the corners for strength and to help keep them square. The lowest frame was shortened and an apron was attached to hang below the drawer.









-------------------------------------------------

One really nice thing about this build is the thick MDF and the legs. I was able to just biscuit them together, as the MDF will not move. This makes for a really strong and stable structure. I tapered the bottom inside of the legs and cut biscuit holes down the center, creating a 1/4 inch leg exposure on either side of the MDF.

At this point I probably made the biggest mistake so far. I was too chicken to dado the insides of the MDF for the frames as the sides were so large and heavy, and I was sure that they would move and twist on the saw. So I went with biscuits. I glued 1/4 inch thick MDF strips (which will be the drawer side guides) to where I wanted the bottom of the drawers to be and then cut the biscuit slots. This was a lot easier in my mind than in real life. The chance for error is enormous.

Here is a pic before gluing on the legs showing the biscuits in the sides of the legs. Also the drawer side guides and the frame biscuit holes.









-------------------------------------------------

Here is a picture of the completed side and frames ready to go. They have one coat of sanding sealer on them, and a light sanding after that.









-------------------------------------------------

I tried a dry fit last night. Gad Zooks!! Getting the 32 biscuits into their little slots all at the same time was not fun. I am not looking forward to the final glue up. But hey, it keeps it exciting.

So here are some pictures of the dry fit. I added 1/4 inch thick fake rails to the sides to give the illusion of a frame and panel. They are not attached yet. I am still trying to decide whether to lower the bottom one to match the front apron, and if they should have a curve on the bottom.









-------------------------------------------------









-------------------------------------------------









-------------------------------------------------

I still have a lot of work; deciding on the fake rails, the big glue up, and then creating and fitting seven drawers. Oh, and finishing. I am planning on an oil finish.
Steve


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## LeeJ (Jul 4, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Wow Steve;

Great job!

Seven drawers for seven days, huh? Who'd have thunk?

Lee


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## jm82435 (Feb 26, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Looking great so far. Good luck with the glue up.


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## acanthuscarver (Mar 27, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Steve,

Looks great. I just want to know where the end grain inlay is?

And, you know, I think there's a class on drawer construction and fitting somewhere… in case you run into any major troubles 

Make sure you post the end result. The material you have is absolutely beautiful.


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


is this the chest from wood magazine? I really want to make this one too, but I doubt I'll do veneer. Baby steps for me. This looks fantastic so far!


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Looking good Steve, Keep having fun, play safe.


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## PetVet (Nov 7, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


If they would just learn to flip their undies inside out on the second day, it sure would cut down on the number of drawers…
This is a great blog, very instructional, thanks for taking the time to post it.
Since the glue up is going to be pretty exciting, what glue are you going to use? Maybe a slower setting resin glue? Also, what glue did you use for the veneering?
Thanks again!


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Steve I'm in about the 6th year of my Lingerie Chest build. I'm using Granadillo and Angel step Maple and Eucalyptus Burl Veneer on the job. I've not touched them in about 2 years. I'm making one for my daughter and daughter-in-law.

I was going for the 7 drawer design, but they wanted bigger drawers because now they want bulky sweaters instead of flimsy lingerie. So I'm putting in a hidden 7th drawer. I'm a stickler for tradition.

They also made 8 drawer chests. That was so me-lady could come home from church and then slip into something more comfortable for the rest of the day. The maid put out the weeks lingerie. (I don't know if they were engraved with the days of the week)


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Hey Guys, thanks for the replies.

@Chuck: I think the material is really nice too. I was wondering whether the different cuts of cherry would work. So far, so good.

@Mo: There was a project in Wood magazine a while ago that I is kind of like this. Of course, silly me, I had to try to just wing it and try my own design. I just can't work from plans. I have a few sketches on paper, a story stick, and that is about it.

@Rich: How do you make 3 and a half drawers? I do need to look into slow setting glue. I have never tried it. I am a Titebond kinda guy so far. And that is what I used for the veneer too. I guess I should expand my universe. I have a bad feeling that no matter what type of glue is used for the glue up, once the biscuits get wet, they expand, and then they lock tight. Arrgh.

@Karson: Good stuff. You got a giggle out of me. This has been going on a while too. I started looking a veneering because the wife unit did not like the cherry that I had bought for this project, and I was too cheap to buy expensive wood.

Steve


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## Lenny (Sep 28, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Looks wonderful Steve. Great work. BTW, Titebond III has a longer open time…about 8 minutes. Not sure if that is enough for this glue-up. I am not crazy about it. It is thinner so it runs/drips more easily and is essentially messier. Maybe I use too much. *Karson*, there is no truth to the rumor that Steve intended this to be an 8-drawer piece but had to go with 7 since 8 would have hit the ceiling when placed on his workbench!

Continued success on the project Steve.


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## bigike (May 25, 2009)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


very good job


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


I know: he would have had to cut the legs off his bench to get an 8 drawer chest on top.

That would have been too painful.


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## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


I told you that I got in way over my head on this one.

Steve


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## Lenny (Sep 28, 2008)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Ha ha, nice come back Steve!


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

SPalm said:


> *Lingerie Chest Build*
> 
> I got in way over my head on this one, and I still have a long way to go. I wanted to do a piece with some veneering work, so I picked a Lingerie Chest. The wife unit wanted one, so it started. I also found out that a Lingerie Chest was to have seven drawers, for the seven days of the week. Who knew?
> 
> ...


Super usefull writeup on the vaccuum bag and its construction. Might want to make ine myself..
Thank you for sharing!


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