# Please, help me identifying this hand plane.



## jackcamino (Jan 18, 2012)

I just received this plane I bought on ebay. This is intended to be an user plane, not a collector but, it would be great to know what I got.
I took some pictures and I would also like to give a description.
- 9 3/4 length.
- 2 7/16 width.
- 2" blade.

Well, I couldn't figure out how to attach pictures so, more description.
- lever cap Stanley on red, kidney hole Pat no. 1918750 on the back, and the rest doesn't say Stanley or I can't read any other brand behind the rust. There is definitely something on the top of the blade.
- Made in USA behind the front handle and a kind of wall that separates the opening of the blade.
- round hole on blade closer to the sharp edge.
- frog has 409 number.
- the part that receives the frog is like a "HH" basically, a horizontal crossed by 3 verticals, 2 on the sides and 1 in the middle.

I would like to post some pictures if someone also guide me in the process. 
Thanks,
Jack.


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## jackcamino (Jan 18, 2012)

!/Users/jackcamino/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2013/May 28, 2013/DSC05452.JPG!
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!/Users/jackcamino/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2013/May 28, 2013/DSC05459.JPG!
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!/Users/jackcamino/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2013/May 28, 2013/DSC05462.JPG!
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I hope this works.


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## LukieB (Jan 8, 2012)

You should just be able to click on the "img" button

Click on the "choose file" button, select you image and then click on the "insert this image" button.

Hope that helps, sounds like you've got a 1940s to 1960s version of a Stanley #4, some pictures would definitely help narrow it down further.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

frog has 409 number

I think its probably a Sargent 409.

http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/sargent-planes-by-the-numberwith-pictures/


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## dowdstools (May 27, 2013)

As Don W said, the 409 is a Sargent number. The 409 is the equivalent of the Stanley No. 4 in size and purpose. The lateral lever will probably have a twist or a fold on the end for thumb adjustment, as opposed to an inlet tab. Sargent made a good plane.

Lynn


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## jackcamino (Jan 18, 2012)




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## jackcamino (Jan 18, 2012)

Well, here the pictures. Thanks LukieB. Yeah, yesterday when researching for a moment I thought it was a Sargent and not a Stanley and I am OK with that because I believe it can be used. In any case, if with the pictures someone can help me confirming and if that is the case finding a replacement lever that as you can see in the picture says Stanley and might be misplaced here. More important, I need to find a cap screw that holds together the blade and the (chipbreaker?) I think is the name of the part that goes with the blade. I appreciate all the help.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Yeah that's what it sounded like from the description, a frankenplane. Stanley lever cap and a Sargent frog. The 409 frog comes on many of their planes that use the same size frog. I have a Sargent 414 with a 409 frog and a Sargent made hardware store plane with a broken 409 frog. I'm not one of the people that's good enough to tell from those pictures what the other parts are from. Luckily others here are. I'm guessing most of the rest are Sargent and maybe just the lever cap has been replaced.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I agree with Tim. If its the original iron it will have a Sargent logo stamped on it. The base looks Sargent as well. A sargent cap should be fairly easy to find and you can use the Stanley cap while your looking.

Either way it will make an excellent user.


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## jackcamino (Jan 18, 2012)

I will find the logo tomorrow when I clean it, now is under evaporust. In the meantime I will use it with the stanley lever but, I still need a cap screw (if that is the name of the part is missing from the picture). Lets see if I can post a picture of the part I need and hopefully here I can find someone that can send me one.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

I don't really know where to get Sargent parts besides checking eBay. I bet you'll find some sellers there. But if your plane was advertised as complete contact the seller as they should make good on the listing if it was missing a part. Of course if the listing said as is or they didn't know then you can't count on it but you could still try.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

that screw is the same as a Stanley.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cap-Iron-Chip-Breaker-Chipbreaker-Screw-Stanley-Bailey-No-2-to-No-8-and-More-/181150894613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2d6f4a15


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Just be aware that Stanley used some pretty wierd thread sizes.
Bill


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Jack,
The unfortunate part about these old planes is that individual parts are few and far between. And as far as 'cap screws', they are hard to find and one Sargent cap screw may NOT fit another. These are all one off. I only have Sargents and do not know if the Sanley cap screw "might" fit or not. That said, the only cap screws currently on eBay are Stanley. Good luck, and keep us posted.

Sometimes you just have to buy a junk plane to part out.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the newer Sargents were the same as Stanley, but of course as stated some were different. *PLUS* have we actually verified its a sargent cap and iron? Particularly the cap?


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## jackcamino (Jan 18, 2012)

Lever cap, iron cap and iron are Stanley. The rest is Sargent. I am still missing the Stanley cap screw. Now, the question is this Frankenplane came this way from either of the factories Stanley or Sargent or it is more that a previous owner fixed it this way?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

It didn't come from either factory that way. It was parted together to get it working by someone not worried about names and just wanted shavings.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

+10 Don.
Jack, remember that these planes have had ~100yr of use and storage time in which to morph into "Frankenplanes". That said, by collecting a fair number of hand planes (you determine what you can afford), you can begin to bring them back into pure breed Sargents, Stanleys, etc. It takes time and attention to detail, but can be a worthwhile WW hobby in and by itself.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

and for some of us sad sacks starts to chew up more time than actual woodworking.


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## jackcamino (Jan 18, 2012)

Great, in the meantime I have a #5 and a #4 Stanley I believe type 19 that I will be fine tuning in the next days, the #4 is like new, the #5 is in good condition and definitely the previous owner worked real hard with it. Also, I am thinking on building a "Krenov" style compass plane. Thanks for all the help and yes, there is a fine line that I don't want to cross and I prefer to do actual woodworking, though I am new to it, just learning for now.


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