Wooden Plug Help

Purchase a cnc lathe

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop, custom furniture ,maker, woodworking school, heirloomwoodshop.com

I have a feeling that I would never recover from the cost of a cnc lathe. Is there one on the market designed for a small business? The ones I have seen look like they belong in a factory.

This is quite simple. Either buy 2” dowel or make it using a duplicator on a lathe. The cut the pieces to length. Drill a hole in a few holes piece of MDF that is a hair over the diameter. In this case 2”. Put this bored piece of MDF on a board and drill a bunch of small holes in the bottom of the supporting board and hook up a vacuum system under the board so as to secure the plugs. Then just run a router around the plugs in a series. Release the vacuum and pull the first set of chamfered plugs out and start over again. You could do a whole bunch in a very short time. I will try to do a Sketchup Drawing for you.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

Thousands Huh! I think I would look for a source of 2” dowels and make up a router jig to make the “V” groove you mentioned. I found several sources of large dowels on the internet. One Atlas Dowels had 2” in several wood species.

-- Les B, Oregon

Shopbot would be one. You can get in for less than 10 grand for their little guy. I know that a whole bunch of eyes just rolled, and it is true that it is not for your average home shop. But the CNC machines that I have had occasion to use have been closer to a quarter million $ so even if this little guy can’t mill a a 49×97 sheet it still seems affordable by comparison. And you said small business. But it needs to keep working. Could you use it for other things? Millwork, sign making, repetitive cutting of small stock parts for other builders in you area?

I have a dream and one of these is in my future.

I know that I’m having fun just wondering what “thousands of “wooden pine plugs, approximately 2” in diameter and 1.5” tall with a 45* chamfer on one end” might be for . . .

Good luck to you in your endeavor.
gc

I know that I’m having fun just wondering what “thousands of “wooden pine plugs, approximately 2” in diameter and 1.5” tall with a 45* chamfer on one end” might be for . . .

Thats an easy one www.pyroboom.com

I have thought about the buying premade dowels but I haven’t found anywhere local that sells them so shipping is a factor. I am also trying to do as much work in house as possible which is why I was cosidering the Dowel Cutting Machine

John,
Are you saying to build a table that “clamps” the plug using vaccuum from the bottom so that I can route the plugs from the top?

Why not chamfer the edge on a stationary sander and then cut to length with a miter or band saw with a stop for the lenth of the repeated cuts. I’m sure you could make a little jig or rest for the sander to get a consistent chamfer.

Or maybe one of these gadgets to make the chamfers? http://www.lumberjacktools.com/Tenon_Cutters_c314686.html

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/default.php?cPath=36_462&gclid=CNGJ3trBwJwCFcZM5Qod5zN5oA

Vic

That is what I am saying. I just about have a Sketchup drawing done to show you. I have not had much time to get it done. Been very busy. I should have it done by tomorrow. John

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

OK, here is a rendition of waht you might want to do. The jig is very simple and you can set a bunch of plugs and run the router around them. Blow them off with air to clean the area and repeat. I think you could get these done in little time. Make sure you use a vacuum hold down system to secure the pieces. A router will grab and throw them from the jig. I think 3 holes per plug hole would be best. This will help them from turning while running the router. I have made up to 3,000 cuts on boards in one day. Dowels will obviously take a bit more time. As for making the dowels, an automatic duplicating lathe would work the best. Maybe you could find someone who has one and sub it out. John

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

Can you not just turn them on the lathe, put in a v cut every 3 inches, part off or take them to a saw and job done? You would not need to use a router that way, one less machine to set up.

Cheers,

Ben

Outsource!—————-If you are doing that many, there are companies that already have the right equipment in place. You could spend a fortune gearing up for this. While huge quantities might justify that, you must weigh those costs. I assume this is some sort of production setting, and not simply for the satisfaction of doing a project. I spend a lot of time doing personal projects just because I want to, but when it comes to business, logic takes over (well sometimes it does) Again, I’m saying this not knowing what you’re doing so take it for what it’s worth. I’ll see if I can find one of those companies if you’re interested. I get fliers all the time at my shop.

-- Kent Shepherd * The goal is-----More Tools!

As I am now writing this 8/26/09 @ 8:25 p.m. the original thread for this topic shows “posted 1 day ago” but I made my reply more than a day ago as yesterday I didn’t even turn on the box. Went to work and then a baseball game and after walking the dog in between all these events didn’t have time to even look in so I know it has been more than 24 hours. That doesn’t bother me per se but . . .

It also shows the original poster as joining one day ago. When I remarked above of my amused speculation at what thousands of chamfered plugs might be for the poster immediately referred me to pyrotechnics website. You can find it in the sixth reply to the o.p above. I would take from this that a perfect 45 chamfer isn’t necessary. ;-( The chamfer simply facilitates inserting the plug into the tube.

So the following is a little more than a bit disquieting:

Yesterday morning (8/25) the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle had an article about a 17 year old drop-out who showed up at his former school with 10 pipe bombs, a chain saw and a sword/knife in excess of 24 inches. He detonated two of the “bombs” and is alleged to have been attempting to start the chainsaw to “finish the job” (emphasis mine) Newspaper article here.

My second point is (if you’re still with me) to ask you readers, “If you seal both ends of a plastic pyrotechnic mortar tube, with [the inquired about 2” x 1.5”] chamfered plugs, while placing a pyro charge between what YOU would name the result of the effort and why would you do this?” Please show your work.

The last point I would make is that the plugs in question are available in the size requested from the mentioned website for .35 cents each in singles and there is a price break at 400 to .25 cents/ea. As the o.p. stated above he/she, “needed to cut thousands” one would arrive at $250.00 per thousand. For any legitimate user of these items (read adult) this would seem a reasonable price to pay for the immediate gratification offered. I cannot imagine a project of a scale that would require two inch hole plugs that would be derailed bu the additional cost of of a couple dozen hole plugs for a total cost of of twelve bucks. As Mr. Shepherd stated above, other people are already making this item, including the one referenced.

There is probably a completely legitimate answer to all the above. And I would love to hear tbullard elucidate on the project.

I am a nut, no question. That I’m far off base is likely. I am still submitting the above “coincidence”.

grumpy I think the 5th paragraph on http://www.pyroboom.com/aboutus.asp explains it well enough . . .

-- Fred, Springfield, Ma

Looks to me as if the OP is the one selling the plugs at 35 cents each which is why he needs to make lots of them. It would be great if you could just buy all you need from yourself but I don’t think it works that way.

For the application, it does make sense to turn them rather than using a plug cutter. I also think it makes sense to see if you can’t outsource them. Very likely there’s a company that would make them affordably.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

I’d get some 2” dowels, put each in a lathe mark the length of the plug and then cut a v groove at each mark. I’d then cut them to separate them on a miter, table, or band saw.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful. http://web.me.com/deceiver6/Deceiver/Craftsman_on_the_lake/Craftsman_on_the_lake.html

Sorry guys I didn’t relieze that I had more replies. Yes, I am part of the business in the website and yes I am currently making the plugs using the method I mentioned in the first post. Also yes there are companies that do make these but my profit margins are slim already and any in-house work I can do is a bonus. As you can image the market for this product isn’t overwheleming but good enough to keep me interested. I may make several thousand plugs in one batch and then not make another for several months. We actually sell very few of the plugs but we sell lots of the finished product which is a length of HDPE pipe with a plug in the end. The purpose of these is to launch fireworks from if you haven’t figured that part out.

Right now judgeing by the replies I think that my idea of using the duplicating lathe to turn the dowels and also create the chamfer is going to be the route I take. I think that I am going to go with the Vega Duplicator. I haven’t seen many personal reviews about it but the ones I have read are all positive.

Can’t help with mass production but I can say Welcome to LJ’s. Glad to have another addict among the group. BTKS

DaveR, fredf, and most importantly tbullard. I apologize for not reading through all the links and chasin down all the answers. I should have been more thourough. All I can say in my defense is that it has been a weird weekhere in the bay area. Monday’s school bomber 30 miles south of where I currently sit has been eclipsed by the discovery of a woman, missing for 18 years and found living in the back yard of a convicted rapist and who has borne two of his children in that time. It is a suburban area with lots of people around and one would think that some one in those 18 years would have noticed something odd.

Sorry.

But your oroginal post then raises the following question regarding basic business practice. How did you did you arrive at a pricing scheme without fully settling on a means of production? This is why it never even occurred to me that you were the one with the need to produce the plugs. Does it not seem reasonable that the purveyor of said plugs already knew that he could provide them and at quantity if necessary, and still be able to do so at a profit?

I was thinking your conclusion that I was the unibomber :) may have been a far stretch and I could have explained the purpose of the plugs in the first post but didn’t feel it was relevant to the question of how would you make them.

I do currently make the plugs and I use a plug cutter which gets the job done but it is only good for a thousand or so plugs before it fails. The plug cutter is simply not made to be used at the level I am using it at. What I am looking for is the “better” way and since I am sure there are many tools and many techniques that I am unaware of I felt that a forum that focused on woodworking would contain an excellet assortmant of minds to pick. You never know someone might look at the plug and say just buy a blank and it will spit them out 100 per minute :).

An example of the “better” way is how I insert the plugs. When I started I was driving them in with a 3lb mallet. Didn’t take long before I built a pneumatic press. Another is I was stapling the plugs in with a handheld pneumatic stapler. Didn’t take long before I built this and now I can insert plugs and staple 250 per hour.

Madness————————————-
For me anyway….. Just to think standing infront of a lathe or any machine turning out 1000’s of small disposeable product one after the other after the other after…...............................that no one will ever admire for such a small turn over….. What a waste of craeative human effort. We have purpose here…..And so do factories with the right equipment rigged up for this sort of thing. OUTSOURCE !

-- "Even small steps makes a distance." (Shawn Phillips, musician)