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4K views 52 replies 24 participants last post by  skatefriday 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi All,

New to the forum and in dire straights. I want a table saw. I have about $1200 to spend. I could push it to $1500 but that might be it. It's for a small one car garage, hobby work mostly. Cabinets and closets will be made with this (the folks just moved to a new house). I've spent the last few months searching and aching for a PM2000 but can't drop the 2-3k needed. I ended up buying the Delta 36-5000 which is not quite good enough (plastic parts that break, narrow throat plate shoulder making it difficult to create ZCI, and barely any dust control). Returned it and now am in the market for a used PM66. I'm not to keen on not having a riving knife, but I've come to terms with having to fashion some splitters or purchasing an aftermarket riving knife-esque (like the Shark) type of device. Ideally the saw would be 3hp, 1ph. Been scouring craigslist and ebay everyday, but haven't found anything really worth jumping on in the tri-state area.(closest I found was an '86 PM66 with a 3ph motor…I could replace the motor I guess, but the asking price was too much). BTW, I'm located in NY.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt
 
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#3 ·
Grizzly has a left tilt cabinet saw for right around 1500. Have you looked for older unisaws? I have a circa 2000 unisaw that has been reliable. Mine was pre-X5 made in USA. It is a beast.
 
#8 ·
I got my Unisaw used for about $900 in great condition. You can buy a great saw with that much money. When you see one you like that is in your price range, jump on it. Otherwise you'll wait forever. There is no perfect toll, so don't get stuck in tool purgatory.
 
#10 ·
I just got the Grizzly 1023RL and so far am quite please with it. It replaced my Jet JCS10. Having only had it for less than a month, I can't comment on long term use. I did try the nickel on its edge and it passed with flying colors!

Their G0715P did not get high marks from their own tech support, so I would avoid it.
 
#12 ·
You have a great budget. I'd keep saving a bit for a sawstop PCS, but I understand the want to have it now. I had a grizzly 1023slx for 10+ years and it was still performing well when I sold it. And the only reason I got rid of it was to upgrade to a SS.

You could look for a used "OLD" Unisaw those are great tools as well.

Use www.searchtempest.com and that will search all the surrounding craiglists based on your zip and your willingness to travel (distance wise).

Good luck on your quest!
 
#13 ·
I'd love to save for a sawstop…but I don't think I'll be happy with a contractor saw. I've heard (and learned from experience) buying the wrong tool first is more expensive than buying the right tool…and I tend to agree. So as for the sawstop…which I'd love…is probably out of my price range. I want a saw I can grow with if that makes sense.

@knotscott - I have a place in Long Island-but I'm willing to travel a bit for a good deal on a saw.

I also agree about the riving knife. If I had my druthers, I'd buy a SawStop or a PM2000. No amount of "saw" is worth even a pinky. There's no "ego" in my cuts. Just safety and caution.

As for the Grizzly debate. I'm glad people are recommending them. I've heard too many questionable things about them. I was going to avoid them because there seems to be much better options for minor increases in price. I will have to take a look.

I'd also prefer a left tilting saw for those who have been suggesting old Deltas. I think they're phenomenal saws…but after using the left tilt (I know how heated right vs. left tilting debate can get) I'd prefer to stay with left tilt. Older Deltas - and please correct me if I'm wrong - don't seem to offer this feature.

Also to note, THANK YOU ALL for your detailed responses. You have no idea what a great tool (pun intended) you've all been.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
I can't help you with your decision one way or the other. However, I did replace my old Craftsman (circa 1977) with a new Grizzly 1023RLW two years ago. It hasn't given me any problems and works great.

Cabinets, you say? Why yes I have built some cabinets…about 50 so far. A complete kitchen for my sister in law's rent house, some lower cabinets for my mom's house, a wet bar for some friends…and our complete kitchen remodel.

It's the last saw I will own in my lifetime, and probably someone elses's also after I am gone.

References:
Which saw to buy?
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/52489

New Table saw
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/45746

Table saw fence rail mod
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/89734

Mom's Kitchen Cabinets
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/97058

Our kitchen remodel
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/108347

Good luck in your search.
Mike
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
You have a decent budget and I think you've got your head on straight, so its just a matter of time before you find what you want.

You're dead right about buying the wrong tool first. Like you been there, done that. I remember going from an old Parks planer (no DC at all) to the cheaper DeWalt (which came broken) to a Ridgid (which I returned) at which time I said "the heck with it" I'm buying one tool for life, so I ended up with 20" beast. In retrospect, I would have been better with a 15" spiral head for about the same $$.

You're wise not to eliminate Grizzly to quickly. I have several Grizzly tools: 8" jointer, 20" planer, and 16" drum sander. The only one I've really been a little frustrated with is the drum sander (but I suspect its my own ineptitude at installing the belts).

I don't know about the TS's but my 20" planer is virtually identical to a PM.

Most all the stuff is made in Taiwan now, so some of the yellow stuff may not be too much diff than the green stuff.
 
#16 ·
Over a PM or Saw Stop, I would not consider Grizzly. You sound like you know what you want and you should work to get it.

Agree about the contractor saw from SS though. PCS at a minimum. Laguna has a nice cabinet saw in that range as well. Might be very similar to a Jet.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thinking of your budget and your intended use: I can recommend the Grizzly 1023 in one of its configurations. I bought mine in 2010, and it has performed flawlessly since. It passed the "nickle test" right out of the box, and still will now. It came with a ShopFox fence, but I put my older Incra TSIII fence on it, and mounted a router table with a Woodpeckers lift with a PC 7518 motor on the left side and personally think that I have a GREAT setup. I also have a Griz jointer and a Griz floor model spindle sander, and have had no issues with either. Do your research, and keep looking for a used saw that you might prefer; but if you want a great new saw now, with a warranty and very good customer service from Grizzly; check out the 1023 series. Good luck, have fun and work safely.
 
#18 ·
I also agree about the riving knife. If I had my druthers, I d buy a SawStop or a PM2000. No amount of "saw" is worth even a pinky. There s no "ego" in my cuts. Just safety and caution.
- mlipps
You do have your druthers. If those are the saws you want then you should save more and buy one. Buy your last saw first.
 
#20 ·
It's important to keep in mind that Grizzly likely sells more tools than Jet, Laguna, Baleigh, and PM combined (that's a guess on my part). More people will post about a negative experience than a positive one….that's just human nature (fact, not a guess), so the chances of hearing something negative about a Grizzly tool is higher than with a company who sells fewer items. For every negative you hear, there are legions of happy campers who didn't join a forum just to yell it from the tree tops in public. Grizzly also dabbles in some low end items that aren't much different than what Harbor Freight, HD, Lowe's, or Sears sells, but they also have many excellent larger machines that will hold their own against just about any other Asian import out there. It's important to differentiate between Grizzly's "HF" level stuff, and their higher end machines. Recently, Grizzly laid an egg with several defective G0715P hybrid saws….the same issue plagued the similar design of the Ridgid R4512 and the Cman 21833….it's just as important to differentiate a problem with a poorly executed design from those that are excellent….like the G1023RL or the G0690 for example. That's true of any brand….evaluate the tool on it's own merit, not the name plate. There are many, many happy owners of those two excellent saws.

If you have 220v, it's tough to buy a new saw for $1500 that's better than a G1023RL or G0690 IMO. If you don't have 220v, there are some excellent 120v options, but you'll give up a fair amount of mass and power at the same price point. It'll all boils down to the things that are most important to you.
 
#21 ·
For every negative you hear, there are legions of happy campers who didn't join a forum just to yell it from the tree tops in public.
- knotscott
Scott is always the voice of reason. He is right about this. I still think they are a budget line that takes some short cuts and does not have the QC of the big names, but that is something you have to be willing to accept.

There are a lot of JPW tools being sold and the people buying them don't want the hassle of being wrong about their purchase. I wish there were more side by side comparisons at local stores. Because there are some real gems in Grizzly's line.
 
#23 ·
I have a mid 1990's Craftsman contractor saw with cast iron table and wings I purchased off of Craigslist for $90. I built an entertainment cabinet / center with that saw. So far It has not limited me in any way. Does not have a riving knife but does have a splitter with a blade guard which I use whenever is possible. So what I am saying is that you do not necessarily need a cabinet saw to make cabinets!

On a slightly different note, it is much easier to cut plywood for cabinets using some type of track saw. Still need the table saw for the lumber pieces (doors, face frame etc) but can get away with a much smaller table saw. As an alternative you might consider purchasing a good track saw and a smaller contractor type table saw.

As an example the entertainment I built:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/88510

A table I made:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/101055

A look at my table saw:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/104426
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/85800
 
#25 ·
Here is a used Unisaw that may be worth checking out for the price. Don t let the picture scare you. It may be a good saw. Link

- mrg
Make sure it's not 3 phase. Otherwise, could be a great deal… if they'd spend 10 minutes cleaning up the area, they could probably get closer to $900 for it.
 
#26 ·
Thanks Guys. I've emailed most, if not all, the posts all of you have been so kind to list here. Heard back from some and waiting to hear from others. I'm also going to look into the listed Grizzly models. The G0715P scared me. But like you said I'll evaluate the tool on its own merits.

I will keep you posted and keep sending the suggestions/saws you find.

Extremely grateful,

Matt
 
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