blackened hands - won't come off - whats the source?

I’m not sure about the cause or the solution, but your plight did remind me of that forum topic a while back questioning why we did not have more black members here at Lumberjocks.

I’m glad to see you doing your part to help out. :-)

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

Yes you might have found the reverse of the problem that Michael J had. Maybe all the white is starting to wear off.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Could it be a combination of the wood and plane? Much like the nasty stains left by clamps on oak? A reaction of the sweat on you hands leaching tanic acid out of the wood the you grabing the fore and causing the usual reaction? Just a thought.

-- Jimmy, Oklahoma "It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear!"

Are you sure it is not residuals from the glue you used? Some glues can stain hands black.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

Thanks for the replies… more entertaining than informative – but thats good stuff too :)

Charlie – I’m doing my best…. whatEVER it takes !

Karson – do you have MJ’s doc contact info by any chance? maybe I’d give him a call (ok… that might be considered a bit over the top)

bayspt – I thought it might be something similar, but I wasn’t using oak, and I haven’t heard of Maple doing the same thing. which what led me to think – maybe Mahogany does?!? but I don’t really know.

John – definitely not glue, as it happened 2 times, and I usually don’t have contact with the glue with my palms – maybe sometimes just with 2 fingers…

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

sometimes when i spin mahogany, like walnut and oak , my hands get stained from the acids in the woods reacting with the sweat from my hands, the only thing i have found to remove the staining is vinager, it smells bad but it works pretty well. hope this helps.

-- Roper - Master of sawdust-

Thanks Roper- this is good to know. my wife uses vinegar to clean everything – so I have some at hand (I guess that would be literally when the time comes…)

the reason I’m asking this is because I might make the handles for the workbench vises out of mahogany – which would get constant use – but if the mahogany is what’s causing this – then that would be a poor choice of material

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Polyurethane glues like Gorilla will cause your hands to turn black.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

if you like the wood but are worried about your hands getting black just coat your handles with shellac, that will seal it right up.

-- Roper - Master of sawdust-

Karson – I only use Titebond I so far. but good thing to consider for future reference.

Thanks Roper – if shellac will do the trick, I’ll go that route (need to get shellac anyways for another project for some french polishing)

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

For Red Oak “ink stains” on my hands I’ve used lemon juice or gasoline.

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

My first thought was that it must be from a tool. If your getting the heat I’m getting I imagine that some of the plastic compounds on handles or related may rub off. My only other thought would be if you were using a dye or similar and spilt in the past.

Perhaps throw on a pair of gloves and rub your hands all over the tools you used when this happened maybe you can reproduce the blackening.

I know its not the nicest stuff, but perhaps paint thinner would take it off.

Jeff, I tried reproducing it – but like murphy stated before -when you try, it won’t work… it only works when you don’t want it to.

poroskywood – thanks for the lemon juice idea – that, and the previously suggested vinegar might do the trick as natural cleaners. as for the gasoline – I’m trying to keep my MPG as high as possible…

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Maybe from that black stuff on the bottom of the bowling alley? I know I have been getting black hands allot lately from all the construction adhesive I am usuing….its waterproof and you cant really see it that good till it dries then its too late!

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

Thanks David, but the tar on the bottom of the bowling alley is long gone, and since it’s tar, it’s rubbery and solid, and comes off real easy (within reason).

I wasn’t using any new materials, or adhesives, or anything of that sort. I was bend laminating the mahogany on the maple leg vise. using titebond I glue, and the rockler clamps… and trimmed it with the metal hand plane… that’s about it all that was in the equation.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Silver Nitrate is a probable source of the stain…it is very good at blackening skin…is very hard to get off…I have run into it in the coatings on inexpensive drill bits….in some alloys…and in some cleaners and activators…

Mercury is another source…much less likely…although is it contained in some switches and some flourescent lights..

Iodine removes silver nitrates….if you can get the stain off with povidone or some other iodine solution…that is the source.

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

thanks reggiek. another good reference to keep. if all fails, I’ll try that one as well.

(now I need to be able to reproduce the effect so that I can try the solutions… i’m so curious)

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Purplev

Whats up, I had a hunch, but wanted proof to your dilema…. So i did a little reading on the net and made my self clever over the effects and contents and make up of Tannic acid.

this is from wiki

Tannic acid is a basic ingredient in the chemical staining of wood. The tannic acid or tannin is already present in woods like oak, walnut, and mahogany. Tannic acid can be applied to woods low in tannin so chemical stains that require tannin content will react. The presence of tannic acid in the bark of redwood (Sequoia) is a strong natural defense against wildfire, decomposition and infestation. It is found in the seeds, bark, cones, and heartwood. Tannic acid is a common mordant used in the dyeing process for cellulose fibers such as cotton, often combined with alum and/or iron. The tannin mordant should be done first as metal mordants combine well with the fiber-tannin complex.

So theres your answer! Its the tannic acid like I thought, that is staining your hands…. and its not a bad choice, as long as you are not going to be storing anything with iron in it, in contact with the wood…

-- Nicholas, Journeyman Cabinetmaker, Partenkirchen, Germany

by the way, I checked out your workbench it looks nice, pretty fancy!

-- Nicholas, Journeyman Cabinetmaker, Partenkirchen, Germany

fantastic! thanks for the little tidbit Waldschrat! I tried googling this, but didn’t really know what to google for in the first place (kinda hard to ask a question when you don’t know what the question is). Thanks a bunch, it does confirm my own hunch that it was indeed the mahogany, as this is the only thing that I didn’t have a chance to retest (as I’ve already finished the mahogany with BLO), and also my fear of using it for the handles, but I guess as long as I finish and seal it, I shouldn’t have a problem, and if I do -I can always replace the handles.

Thanks again to everyone for the insights, and the outsights (you know who you are), it was all good reading!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I guess it was the combination of the mahogany, and planing it with my metal body #6 fore-plane that triggered the ebonizing effect on my HANDS! I read about ebonizing, but never saw it first hand, and at such an extreme and fast effect. COOL!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Any aluminum tools handles?

-- Dan, Sterling Alaska, http://sullcon.homestead.com/ Before you criticise some one, walk a mile in their shoes...then you will be a mile away and you have their shoes!

no aluminum… I think it was the combination of the mahogany+sweat+metal hand plane combination that did it.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

yep, and now we know what makes mahogony resistant against rot! i do not expect either to have tannic acid like oak… we all learned something today… .and whats this with ebonizing effect? is that done with tannic acid or something?

-- Nicholas, Journeyman Cabinetmaker, Partenkirchen, Germany

Waldchrat – ebonizing is staining wood black – naturally. it is based on the tannic acids that exist in the lumber (thus, Oak is easier to ebonize than others), or the lumber can be impregnated with tannic acids. then it is coated with a solution that contains rusted metal such as steel wool which stains the fibers of the wood black.

here is a nice article about it from PopularWoodworking

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

thanks for the info Purplev! and the web link!

-- Nicholas, Journeyman Cabinetmaker, Partenkirchen, Germany

My hands don’t get dirty like that using wood but I work with metal a lot and weld. Your hands turn black. After you wash them they are still black but don’t stain anything else. I’m wondering if you handled any cold steel. It’s the stuff that you get from the hardware store. Angle iron and such.

So, as I can see it if this is the problem and you were working on your leg vise, did you grab the metal screw at times and twist in in your hand?

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful. http://web.me.com/deceiver6/Deceiver/Craftsman_on_the_lake/Craftsman_on_the_lake.html

Did you try lemon juice? I don’t know if I had the same blackening agent as yours, but once I had that problem and lemon juice was the only thing that worked.

-- cathyb

Daniel – thanks. I was working on the wooden jaw of the leg vise – but did not touch the metal screw that day. I did however touch the metal screw several times before, but never got ‘that’ kind of black. I only got a little black from the oil on it, which would clean off easily with soap.

that day, and the next day, I was only working on the wood, and was sweating alot. I was working with a metal #6 handplane, but since then, I picked up the handplane several times, but never got black hands from it which made me believe that it might be the mahogany+sweat+metal plane combination.

I’ll keep an eye on this as I continue working on things, and see if I can find a common cause if it ever happens again.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Thanks Cathy, poroskywood mentioned that several comments above. as I said – if it ever happens again, this is definitely something I’ll try out as it’s readily available.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Sharon,
Read on Sawmill Creek website that black walnut will leave your hands black – especially in heat.
This thread reads like a guessing game… do I win????
Ellen

-- Ellen on Cape Cod

Ellen, was that rhetorical? you always win…. ;)

but no black walnut here… actually, no walnut at all… although I would like to have some. has a really nice color/grain to it.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Hey PurpLev, For years I did lots of finish work, so my hands were constantly stained, Like for 20 years straight. I hated gloves, so I just lived with it. Looking back, I think it gave me sort of a rugged manly look. Drives the women wild!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I really worked or something. Anyway, I can’t help your problem—-So—live with it! LOL (and good luck with the women—oh wait, you have a wife. Ignore previous remarks)

-- Kent Shepherd * The goal is-----More Tools!

Kent – thats the ‘problem’ (not really a problem… but you get the point) – I don’t mind ‘living with it’ ... but the wife doesnt like it… so… I gotta avoid it as much as possible. I hate gloves too.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

dont know what caused your blackness but last year when i was making a fairly large oak table, my fingers went pretty black from rough n dirty wood, well actually they were black trough most of the project, couldnt really clean it off, it wore off on its own eventually :D

-- My signature is awesome.

I knew it was the Tannic Acid as soon as you mentioned the Mahogany because I used to handle tons of it and where ever a metal band had contacted the bare wood it turned black as could be , just like Oak does : )
Your skin was actually “stained” and that is why it wouldn’t wash off. Hopefully you’ll recover fully before the picnic : )

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

Len – I think that was indeed the reason, I was using the same handplane today with the curly maple you gave me – but my hands stayed clean. so I really think it’s the mahogany+sweat+metal that did it. It clears off on its own after a day… so I’m personally not worried – was just curious, and based on all responses, my hunches were confirmed – as you suggested that it’s the mahogany.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Can I ask what you’re making with the Curly , or is it a secret , Sharon ? LOL

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

no secret Len, I kept on thinking how to use that for something that will be appreciated- and after much consideration, I figured I’m going to use it (at least some of it) for a restoration of my hand plane(s) – which I see and use every time I’m woodworking, and will appreciate the gesture, the lumber, and the beauty of it every time again.

Thanks again!

the restoration will be blogged soon, once the handles are done.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Can’t wait…..Looking forward to them : )

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .