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SawStop Overarm Dust Collection Poor Performance

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Forum topic by DBordello posted 05-12-2015 05:49 AM 1409 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DBordello

132 posts in 693 days


05-12-2015 05:49 AM

My wife really didn’t want me taking over the garage, but it appears to be going that way. However, she hates when I fill the place with dust. Understandably, nobody wants a car covered in dust.

So, I built a DC using a Thein baffle, the Harbor Freight DC, and a Wynn filter. It seems like a pretty good setup.

I have a SawStop PCS with the overarm dust collection. However, it doesn’t appear to be working at all. When I cut a piece of wood, I get a pretty steady stream a dust right back at me, covering my arm and table.

The airflow at the saw guard is awful. Very weak flow. If I take the 4” / 2.5” Wye off the back I get plenty of airflow (as best as I can tell, I don’t have a good reference) through the 4” port, and OK airflow through the 2.5” port. However, by the time it gets to the guard, there is barely anything going on.

I realize that I have a lot of variables at play. Custom DC, Thein baffle, etc. However, any suggestions on improving performance? I have seen some suggestions to get a 45 degree Wye, but that appears to be a mess, requiring another hose clamp.

Thoughts?


14 replies so far

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

757 posts in 1462 days


#1 posted 05-12-2015 10:02 AM

First thought is you’ll need to put a blast gate or some other way to throttle back the 4” end/cabinet port side of the little splitter for the over arm system As long as your DC is pulling on both, it will pull from the easiest path, which will always be the bigger port. So you’ll need to throttle that back to pull more air through your overarm system.

-Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3949 posts in 1960 days


#2 posted 05-12-2015 11:11 AM

If that’s the SS dust port your using my advice would be to through it away and get something that will allow a 3” (or larger) hookup. The port just isn’t large enough to allow the needed airflow for catching the dust. On exception that might make it work, hook it to a shop vac, it may perform acceptably with that. Here’s why: DC’s move large volumes at a low SP (static pressure). For that they need large ducts and ports to decrease the SP and allow that airflow. Choke them down and you get what you have….very little air flow. Vacs are the opposite: low volumes of air at relatively high SP…..so they do acceptably well with small ports. I haven’t even use the SS blade gaurd that came with mine, it’s hanging on the wall. I have the Excalibur form my previous saw and it’s 3” dust port on, and it works acceptably well…but I still wish it was 4”. Someday it may get ditched in favor of a Shark Gaurd.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Rob's profile

Rob

704 posts in 2538 days


#3 posted 05-12-2015 01:27 PM

Regardless of the table saw’s overarm dust collection, you’ll never eliminate all the dust in your shop. Most of the dust will be blown off the car the next time you drive it, but if that’s still a problem consider walling or curtaining off the car from your shop space or putting a tarp over the car.

-- Ask an expert or be the expert - http://woodworking.stackexchange.com

View josephf's profile

josephf

125 posts in 1563 days


#4 posted 05-12-2015 02:00 PM

Hey – I have that same complaint . But I have a plan .Found a small old vacuum . I will remove the filter and install it in series on the small 1 1/4 hose .that will exhaust it into the dust collector line . I will use a 20$ switch http://www.amazon.com/Indoor-Wireless-Remote-Control-Switch/dp/B001F7ZVXS/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1431439000&sr=1-2&keywords=remote+lamp+switch . yes i also feel it is a lame hood but this might improve it enough. still such a small opening in the blade guard .

View Richard H's profile

Richard H

489 posts in 1147 days


#5 posted 05-12-2015 02:16 PM

My guess would be since you are 4” out of the DC and 4” into the Sawstop which splits into 4” into the cabinet and 1 1/2” to the overarm that you are starving the 1 1/2” arm for air. I am planning when I buy one of these to go 6” into a 4” and 1 1/2” port instead of using the splitter that comes with the saw. Of course that assumes you can go 6” all the way to the DC.

I have used the overarm collector on the ICS and it seemed to work really well but it was feed with a separate DC hookup to the saw from a 6” drop with dedicated blast gate ports for each. The hood seems well designed and does a good job if it gets enough airflow the place where it connects to the DC isn’t well thought out IMO and seems more of a compromise to let the saw be hooked up to the average home DC than anything else.

Another option might be to block off a bit of the airflow to the saw cabinet via a blast gate attached directly to the saw in front of that splitter they provide with the overarm kit and run it with the gate about a 1/4 of the way engaged so you can force more air though the overarm attachment. I don’t know the impact this would have on duct collection in the cabinet however but it would be easy enough to do and you might be able to find a good balance. If you do this I would mount the gate facing up so you are blocking the airflow right where the smaller port to the overarm is and once I found a spot that works well I would probably use a small screw to fix the gate in place so it doesn’t slip over time.

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2534 days


#6 posted 05-12-2015 02:27 PM

Ok I can help you on this (Maybe). When I got my ICS had the same issue. After doing some research and trying different things, I have a version (3) that works great now. I can only share with you what works for me and my DC which is a 2hp job with canister top and bag bottom. I run 4” flex hose to all my pieces. I use grngate automatic blast gates that open and close with the tool coming on. Not cheap but I love it! My run from TS to DC inlet is only aproximately 20+ feet (guess never measured it).

The first generation sucked (or actually did not). The main port under the blade was fine, but like you said the pickup over the blade was iffy at best. Biggest thing is don’t have that arm parallel with the back rail push it back till it’s a good 120 degrees or more. This will gentle up the sweep on the hose and improve it greatly.

That 90 degree intake with the 4” hose output on the back of the saw was a dumb idea in my opinion. I swapped that out and went with a sweep into a 4” to reduce drag. I had it right next to the 4” dustport outtake to keep the sweep gentle as possible. However with this version two I came up with it created a sharp Right turn into the main trunk of my 4” hose.

I finally decided to shorten the hose (hated cutting that hose), to take the sweep out and reverse the connector so it was a gentle sweep into the main trunk. That has worked the best and been in use for over a year now.

I’ve included some pictures because my explination does not make sense when I read it to myself, so hoping a picture works. The cord wrapped around the hose, is the sensor cable that goes around the power cord to tell the gates to open and close.

Version One: Sucked

Version Two: Improvement but could do better

Version Three: The best yet and not changing anytime soon

DC with side of TS run with GRNGATES

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View DBordello's profile

DBordello

132 posts in 693 days


#7 posted 05-12-2015 05:46 PM

Wow, lots of replies. However, none with a simple fix :)

I think the first step might be to throttle the 4” port. I am going to throw a blastgate on the saw and see where that takes us. It sounds like most people are having better luck than I am at the moment. However, there are also some complicated solutions out there.

I will take a video to show how things are working now.

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2534 days


#8 posted 05-12-2015 05:57 PM

A picture is worth a thousand words so to speak.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View DBordello's profile

DBordello

132 posts in 693 days


#9 posted 05-12-2015 08:57 PM

My 30 second diagnostics indicate the blast gate may be the ticket. I happened to have a male-female blast gate that I put on the 4” port between the saw cabinet and the wye. Fully off, I can hear plenty of suction at the blade guard. I ran a quick piece of plywood at 50% blocked and it appeared to perform well. More testing to follow.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3949 posts in 1960 days


#10 posted 05-13-2015 10:59 AM

I’m glad that worked, but you might want to call SS and ask about insufficient air flow in the cabinet. The manual suggest you have at least 400 CFM down there, and with the electronics they have it may be need to keep something bad from happening (just speculating). By throttling the cabinet connection, you may be robbing Peter to pay Paul (haven’t used that in a very long time!). SS CS is so good they can tell you if you’ll have a problem or not. One of my few complaints about those saws is that puny 4” port on the cabinet…I wish it was 5 or 6”.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2534 days


#11 posted 05-13-2015 03:03 PM



I m glad that worked, but you might want to call SS and ask about insufficient air flow in the cabinet. The manual suggest you have at least 400 CFM down there, and with the electronics they have it may be need to keep something bad from happening (just speculating). By throttling the cabinet connection, you may be robbing Peter to pay Paul (haven t used that in a very long time!). SS CS is so good they can tell you if you ll have a problem or not. One of my few complaints about those saws is that puny 4” port on the cabinet…I wish it was 5 or 6”.

- Fred Hargis

My only complaint, is the little half door on the blade shroud that I constantly forget to close and get the dust in the cabinet.

No way a Sawstop problem but an old timers problem. When properly closed no dust issues at all.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View DBordello's profile

DBordello

132 posts in 693 days


#12 posted 05-13-2015 03:18 PM



I m glad that worked, but you might want to call SS and ask about insufficient air flow in the cabinet. The manual suggest you have at least 400 CFM down there, and with the electronics they have it may be need to keep something bad from happening (just speculating). By throttling the cabinet connection, you may be robbing Peter to pay Paul (haven t used that in a very long time!). SS CS is so good they can tell you if you ll have a problem or not. One of my few complaints about those saws is that puny 4” port on the cabinet…I wish it was 5 or 6”.

- Fred Hargis

I will look around inside. I am not terribly worried about this. I ran it for a little bit without any DC. There was a nice healthy stream of dust coming out the DC port.

View DBordello's profile

DBordello

132 posts in 693 days


#13 posted 05-13-2015 03:18 PM


I m glad that worked, but you might want to call SS and ask about insufficient air flow in the cabinet. The manual suggest you have at least 400 CFM down there, and with the electronics they have it may be need to keep something bad from happening (just speculating). By throttling the cabinet connection, you may be robbing Peter to pay Paul (haven t used that in a very long time!). SS CS is so good they can tell you if you ll have a problem or not. One of my few complaints about those saws is that puny 4” port on the cabinet…I wish it was 5 or 6”.

- Fred Hargis

My only complaint, is the little half door on the blade shroud that I constantly forget to close and get the dust in the cabinet.

No way a Sawstop problem but an old timers problem. When properly closed no dust issues at all.

- bonesbr549

I was not aware of this, I should look for that…

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3130 days


#14 posted 05-13-2015 03:55 PM

The ‘T’ connector they provide is a problem … I did something similar to what bonesbr549 did, and that really made a difference.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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