LumberJocks

Dust collector

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by Vest posted 05-12-2015 02:01 AM 807 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Vest's profile

Vest

53 posts in 1085 days


05-12-2015 02:01 AM

Topic tags/keywords: dust dust collector dust collection tablesaw sander jointer miter saw router planer bandsaw

Hey guys needing some help. I am trying to set my entire shop up on a dust collection system. Have run all the duct work and blast gates. I have a Grizzly 2 hp dust collector. Needless to say it can’t handle everything. I am running a 15 inch planner, 6 1/8 jointer, Unisaw, Miter saw , spindle sander, band saw,shaper, and hand sanders on the system. I have run all 4 inch pipe then adapted it down. I need to know what size and type collector do I need? Cyclone or what. Thanks for any help.


14 replies so far

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3667 posts in 1182 days


#1 posted 05-12-2015 02:40 AM

You didn’t mention how much 4” pipe you had to run, a little and a 2hp machine might be able to get the job done, a lot and probably not. Assuming you’re only running one machine at a time it sounds like your planer is likely to be the biggest generator of dust/chips to be drawn away and collected?

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 685 days


#2 posted 05-12-2015 02:55 AM

Also, what are you trying to achieve? Chip collection to keep the floors clean or fine dust collection to limit what you’re actually breathing in?

That will very much be a determining factor in dust collector size and ducting size, even though you’ve already run 4”.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2190 posts in 942 days


#3 posted 05-12-2015 10:16 AM

AZ makes a good point re: “dust” vs. “shavings”. To achieve true, Pentz style DC, you need a much more powerful unit and much bigger ducting.

You’ve already run the pipe, but you would be better off with 6” main ducts.

Like bigblock said, A 2HP unit could be enough, but without knowing the layout and distances, we can’t advise you.

There are so many factors such as the actual (not advertised) CFM’s of the unit, air speed, duct size, particulate size, distance from unit, etc.

In general, shavings producers like planers and jointers are easiest to collect. Small particle producers like tablesaws and bandsaws next and true dust producers like drum sanders are the hardest. Keeping them closest to the collector helps.

Your system will work, but how well is not possible to tell without more info.

Most importantly (and I can’t stress this enough) the most important dust control method is personal protection, ie. a full face respirator, especially when working with MDF or sanding.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Vest's profile

Vest

53 posts in 1085 days


#4 posted 05-12-2015 10:20 AM

The planer is about 35 foot of pipe away from the dust collector. Yeah with my drum sander it does fine. Not the planer though. It is all 4 inch pipe.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3932 posts in 1955 days


#5 posted 05-12-2015 11:04 AM

I would guess that duct size and choking down that already small duct is causing any problems you might be having. The collector you have is what i usually suggest as a starting point and should easily pull enough air on it’s own. But you could have a 5 HP cyclone and it will still only pull about 500CFM (+/-) though a 4” duct….so no matter what you DC you have you won’t get enough air flow to catch all the fine dust, though it should do quite well with chips. It doesn’t matter if you are sucking air with a cyclone or single stage DC, the cyclone should keep the filter cleaner longer, allowing for a more sustained exhaust than a slowly clogging SS filter, but the cyclone also ads a lot of drag to the system, so they normally have larger impellers/motors to overcome the resistance. That is a fairly long run to the planer, and contributes somewhat to the overall problem, but larger ducts, and on the tools where you choked it down to the puny factory ports sometimes supplied upsize those ports to at least 4”.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Vest's profile

Vest

53 posts in 1085 days


#6 posted 05-12-2015 11:33 AM

Ok so replace the main run of duct with 6 inch pipe. I am wanting to collect the fine dust and the chips. I have 4 inch running to all machines. The miter saw only has a 2 1/2 port , the shaper has a 3 inch , and the spindle sander has a 2 1/2 inch port. The rest of the machines have 4 inch ports. I switch the planer and drum sander around on the same hose. So what size collector would work with a 6 inch main duct going down to 4 inch?

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3932 posts in 1955 days


#7 posted 05-12-2015 11:45 AM

I think the one you have will work if you keep the 4” ports. I have a 5 HP-14 1.4” impeller cyclone and can pull about 525CFM through a 4” duct (with 6” truck line). I would bet your DC will do almost that much through the same duct. Convert the spindle sander to a vac, and I have no solution to the miter saw. I worked on mine for years before giving up on it altogether.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View conifur's profile

conifur

955 posts in 613 days


#8 posted 05-12-2015 12:06 PM

I by no means an expert on DC, but I thought it is a 2 part process, DC connected to the machines for chip and some dust collection and an air filtration system for the dust in the air. For that in my 15×15ft shop, I have 3 20” box fans hung from the ceiling with 20×20x2” Merv 8 pleated filters on them, I find them quieter then a Jet 3 speed air filtration system and were cheaper, and move more air when on high. The industrial grade filters at my Big Box are $4, and I only need to change them about every 3 months. 2 are on low all the time when I am in the shop for 2 reasons, I have electric base board heat and need to move the air to distribute it better, and shop has no windows and is sealed up pretty tight and I like the air circulation.

-- Knowledge and experience equals Wisdom, Michael Frankowski

View Rob's profile

Rob

704 posts in 2532 days


#9 posted 05-12-2015 01:32 PM

3hp is a good starting point and should work fine for most small shops. If you have any long runs, use 6” pipe. Bill Pentz comes across a little crazy but his static pressure calculator spreadsheet is really handy for figuring out how well your setup should perform.

A cyclone or baffle restricts air flow but helps keep your filters clean if you have high-efficiency filters.

Don’t bother with an air cleaner up front unless you’re doing finishing in the same room. Filtration only helps clean up the air after you’re done throwing dust into the air. And regardless of how good the filters are on your DC, you’ll never capture everything so you still need to use a respirator while you’re working and until the dust settles.

-- Ask an expert or be the expert - http://woodworking.stackexchange.com

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 685 days


#10 posted 05-12-2015 04:10 PM



I think the one you have will work if you keep the 4” ports. I have a 5 HP-14 1.4” impeller cyclone and can pull about 525CFM through a 4” duct (with 6” truck line). I would bet your DC will do almost that much through the same duct. Convert the spindle sander to a vac, and I have no solution to the miter saw. I worked on mine for years before giving up on it altogether.

- Fred Hargis

I actually tried to run a harbor freight dust collector with an oneida cyclone through 4” of straight ducting 40’.
Mine was modified with a 6” intake at the impeller to match up directly to the Oneida and I also had no filtration on the output to see what the max I could pull with it running.

I’m going off memory but at 10 feet I was pulling around 380 cfm and at the 30 foot mark, it was about 75% of that.
He will definitely need a setup like yours to basically force more air through the pipe.

As a comparison, I had on the other side of the shop, the same runs, 4” with a harbor freight stock through a trashcan lid cyclone and pulled the exact same cfm. I was surprised as I expected the cfm to drop due to the inefficiencies of the trashcan vs the Oneida cyclone.

Basically, I concluded that with 4”, with that hp and impeller, I was at the max capacity that I could do with the ducting I have.

Today, I am actually putting together a Clearvue 1800 with the 5hp motor but with the larger impeller that they use on the CV MAX to run 2 40’ trunk lines with 6” drops. They said the larger impeller will overcome the resistance of running the 6” versus having to run 8” mains which can get very, very expensive. The 6” wasn’t cheap either but much more palatable after having spent the money on the 4”

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 685 days


#11 posted 05-12-2015 04:20 PM



I by no means an expert on DC, but I thought it is a 2 part process, DC connected to the machines for chip and some dust collection and an air filtration system for the dust in the air. For that in my 15×15ft shop, I have 3 20” box fans hung from the ceiling with 20×20x2” Merv 8 pleated filters on them, I find them quieter then a Jet 3 speed air filtration system and were cheaper, and move more air when on high. The industrial grade filters at my Big Box are $4, and I only need to change them about every 3 months. 2 are on low all the time when I am in the shop for 2 reasons, I have electric base board heat and need to move the air to distribute it better, and shop has no windows and is sealed up pretty tight and I like the air circulation.

- conifur

That was pretty much the thinking for a long time but if you’re collecting the dust from the air with an overhead filter, you’re already breathing the dust. The point of upgrading to larger impellers and ducting with a separator of some sort is to collect the chips and the dust at the machine before it has a chance to get into the air and has a chance to get into your lungs.

View Vest's profile

Vest

53 posts in 1085 days


#12 posted 05-13-2015 01:53 AM

Alright can I connect 2 dust collectors to the 6 inch main duct and maybe get enough cfm to accomplish what I am trying for? I know pitiful . I have spent just about my max for the year for tools already lol. I could either connect both through a y connector or I could connect 1 collector to the other collectors out put port.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3667 posts in 1182 days


#13 posted 05-13-2015 02:37 AM

That might work, actually I’m considering doing something similar. I have two Delta 2hp blower units off drum top dust collectors and I’m hoping to build my own cyclone and run both of them only when needed. They do have aluminum impellers so running them with all that might make its way down the trunk line wouldn’t work, especially if a big chunk of wood made it through everything. As far as plumbing them in series or parallel, you might have to experiment a little to see what works best, it’s much easier to calculate what volume and pressure you would have when dealing with a non-compressible fluid.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 685 days


#14 posted 05-13-2015 03:35 AM



Alright can I connect 2 dust collectors to the 6 inch main duct and maybe get enough cfm to accomplish what I am trying for? I know pitiful . I have spent just about my max for the year for tools already lol. I could either connect both through a y connector or I could connect 1 collector to the other collectors out put port.

- Vest

It’s possible and has been done, but it also has the chance of having one supercharge the other and frying the motor, or at least I think that was said to be the danger. I did most of my research into this about 2 months ago and haven’t really followed it up since buying what I have now
.
Stumpynubs has a video on it and he monitored the amps on each motor to make sure he would not have a problem.
I think he also put blast gates at the entrance to each unit to fine tune the airflow to each unit and also set up each blower on it’s own circuit.

I understand the budget concerns. What I’ve been kicking myself with though, is it’s not cheap setting things up on a 4” and getting the cyclone and the work to do it and then finding it didn’t work and then upgrading everything. Very little of what I have of the 4” parts I’m able to use. Maybe 20” or so.

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com