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Need some info on some hand planes

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Forum topic by BPatterson posted 04-25-2015 06:26 PM 780 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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BPatterson

41 posts in 1063 days


04-25-2015 06:26 PM

Topic tags/keywords: hand plane restoration

Hi everyone! Like the title says, I am interested in any and all info you have on these two hand planes. They are pretty beat up as you can see in the pictures but I am going to try my hand at restoration. I figure for the $15 I spent on them, I don’t have much to lose. They both have some surface rust but they are not badly pitted.

I am pretty new to hand tools so please correct me if I incorrectly use any terminology. The bigger one (a jack plane?) is 2-5/16 wide by 13-7/8 long. And the small one (just a block plane?) is 4-1/2 long by 1-1/2 wide.

The tote on the bigger one is secure but it is cracked and the rear handle is pretty loose and has a little damage as well. Would you try to repair them or replace them? I could not find any markings on it other than “Made in USA” across the front of the plane so I do not know the manufacturer.

If anyone could identify a manufacturer or could point out anything of interest I would appreciate it. Also if you have any links to good tool restoration info or inexpensive replacement tote/handles that would also be great.

Thank you for your time,
Brandon

PS- Sorry for the lousy pictures!

-- Brandon ~ Aim Small, Miss Small


16 replies so far

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bandit571

14569 posts in 2146 days


#1 posted 04-25-2015 06:58 PM

The Jack plane looks like it was a Stanley Defiance, based on the cast into the base frog. No lateral as these didn’t have any.

The little guy looks like a cross between a #110 and a #101. “Thumb plane”. Clean it up sharpen it, and keep it in the work apron.

The Jack? A Jack is a jack plane. Clean it up, sharpen the cutter with a 5-8” radius curve to the edge. Called a Camber. It is a way to take the rough out of rough sawn boards. Might stay on the lookout for a #3 or #4 sized smooth plane, next.

DonW has a few blogs on how to repair cracked handles.

nhplaneparts.com (EBay Store) sells replacement handles and other parts. That Defiance has a special lever cap, and only fits a Defiance plane. This would be the “Type 1” planes, the later ones were just copies of “normal” Bailey style planes.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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BPatterson

41 posts in 1063 days


#2 posted 04-25-2015 07:55 PM

Thank you very much for the information! It definitely gives me a good direction to head in to find further info/parts for the planes.

Funny you should mention looking for a smooth plane as I actually have a Stanley Handyman smooth plane, that was my grandfathers, that I am planning to restore alongside these! I know the handyman planes (and probably these) are lower end planes but I am hoping to learn the basics of using and restoring the tools with them at least.

I will check out DonW’s posts.

nhplaneparts.com has quite the selection! Thank you for the link!

Just out of curiosity, any idea on the possible age of either of the planes?

Thanks again!

-- Brandon ~ Aim Small, Miss Small

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Don W

17962 posts in 2030 days


#3 posted 04-26-2015 11:39 PM

Can we see some pictures of the adjustment. Although I agree it looks like a defiance, they didn’t have adjusters. I’d like go see more detail.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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rwe2156

2192 posts in 943 days


#4 posted 04-27-2015 12:36 AM

My advice (whether you’ve asked for it or not):

If you’re serious about ww’ing and serious about your tools, for 150 bucks get a #4 Wood River so at least you’ll have a decent plane and you’ll know what a decent plane should do before you ever get started.

You can’t restore something if you don’t know what its supposed to do, right?
Remember, I can make shavings with my Case knife.

As far it goes with what you’ve got, on the jack plane, IF you can get the sole flat and IF the blade an cap iron aren’t trashed you will have a “decent” plane and that’s about it.

As far as the block plane, I don’t know what you’ve got there. I’ve never seen one with a front knob.
From the looks of it, its a paperweight (now tell me its some 18th century rare plane, right?)

Sorry if this offends some of you guys, but most of the post 50’s Stanleys are worth just about what you paid – $15. The “Stanley downgrade” started in the 60’s so any type 20 (the blue ones) were a disgrace to the name.

But a jack plane doesn’t have to be as great a plane, so you can do OK with it.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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BPatterson

41 posts in 1063 days


#5 posted 04-27-2015 12:46 AM

Once everything was apart, the only other marking I could see was a faint “Made in USA” on the top edge of the iron. I have attached some better pictures. Thank you for your time and input.

-- Brandon ~ Aim Small, Miss Small

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BPatterson

41 posts in 1063 days


#6 posted 04-27-2015 12:57 AM

Thanks Robert. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I agree that I would be better off starting with a quality tool and going from there but unfortunately I don’t the extra cash to put into a high end plane and sharpening setup at the moment. Even if I don’t ever get these guys to be highly accurate and usable planes I will learn a thing or two about rust removal! :-) These may go the way of wall decoration but I am OK with that.

I am currently more of a power tools guy but once I get my last few “essential” power tools, I plan to build a proper (starter) woodworking bench and at that time I could see myself throwing some money into some nicer hand tools. Why does this hobby have to be so darn expensive?! :-D

-- Brandon ~ Aim Small, Miss Small

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Tim

3113 posts in 1424 days


#7 posted 04-27-2015 12:58 AM


Sorry if this offends some of you guys, but most of the post 50 s Stanleys are worth just about what you paid – $15. The “Stanley downgrade” started in the 60 s so any type 20 (the blue ones) were a disgrace to the name.

But a jack plane doesn t have to be as great a plane, so you can do OK with it.
- Robert Engel

How many type 20’s and later have you worked with, Robert? I’ve got a type 20 that I put a little less time into rehabbing than my average rehab and it works better than any #5 I have. I just happened to be a little farther along learning what these things need to tune them up. Definitely not offended though, to each their own.

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Don W

17962 posts in 2030 days


#8 posted 04-27-2015 01:06 AM

I had to look that up. Its a defiance #1244. I’ve never seen one. I doubt it will be a great smoother, but probably an OK jack.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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489tad

3099 posts in 2474 days


#9 posted 04-27-2015 01:14 AM

Brandon be sure to post your rehabs when your done. There is a ton of great information here on LJ’s and I’m sure what ever you do to them it will be a great improvement. Good luck.

-- Dan, Naperville IL, I.G.N.

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BPatterson

41 posts in 1063 days


#10 posted 04-27-2015 01:43 AM

Thank you Don. It looks like the block plane is also a Stanley defiance or at least it looks very similar to some I found on eBay.

Thanks Dan. If they turn out half decent, I may post a few pictures. I doubt they will be anywhere close to as nice as the beautiful restorations I have seen on here but I will give it my best! :-)

-- Brandon ~ Aim Small, Miss Small

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

13720 posts in 2081 days


#11 posted 04-27-2015 02:10 AM

Brandon, I’ve got the Defiance smoother to go with that jack! Seems to me like an okay tool. I haven’t used my at this point, it’s essentially a display because of the number of planes ahead of the Defiance in line, but again, looks to be decent. Good luck on the reburb, and YES to pictures!

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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OSU55

1056 posts in 1452 days


#12 posted 04-27-2015 04:17 PM

Try these tuning techniques and I don’t think you will have to spend $150 on a new plane. Newer Stanley’s work just fine once tuned up. My older vintage planes took just as much tuning as the newer ones. Those defiance and handyman versions are pretty limited though and not worth a lot of effort.

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rwe2156

2192 posts in 943 days


#13 posted 04-27-2015 04:30 PM



Why does this hobby have to be so darn expensive?! :-D

- BPatterson

It really makes it hard to get started, especially for a young guy.

But quality tools are, and never were, cheap.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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rwe2156

2192 posts in 943 days


#14 posted 04-27-2015 04:38 PM


How many type 20 s and later have you worked with, Robert?

One. It was only after I purchased a modern premium plane I realized this.

I ve got a type 20 that I put a little less time into rehabbing than my average rehab and it works better than any #5 I have. I just happened to be a little farther along learning what these things need to tune them up. Definitely not offended though, to each their own.
- Tim

I really just boils down to what each individual expects/wants from a tool.

You’re right about to each his own because of my previous statement.
Me, myself, and I, have been down the Ebay/flea market rusty Stanley/derusting/restoration route before and
I discourage guys starting out from going that route when they can buy a very decent WR for $150. (Which, if you’ve looked at Ebay prices lately, is even more of a no – brainer).

Its just funny people have no problem shelling out hundreds for for a track saw or router lift but can’t see the value in a $350 handplane. Like you said, to each his own.

Since I’m fortunate to be able to, all my hand plane purchases from now on will be new ones.

I have used a couple pretty decent Stanley’s both pre-WWII with no adjustable frogs.
I had alot of trouble with consistency. That plus the signature Stanley backlash drove me to the premium planes and I’ve never regretted it.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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bandit571

14569 posts in 2146 days


#15 posted 04-27-2015 06:50 PM

Went with a WR #4V3, tried it for almost a year….went back to my Millers Falls #9s and a #8. For some reason, the “backlash” or what ever was the SAME on all of these, including the WR.

As for the Defiance plane. I had the #4 sized one for a while

Seemed to do ok on the woods I use in the shop. Not sure what them red handles are, but it seems to be the wood itself. Stripped the old flaky finish off, and still had RED handles.

The sole on this one wasn’t all THAT bad, took very little work to clean up. That lever cap, is a “one-of-a-kind”

And will NOT work on any other maker’s planes. Too short. They were never painted, either. Overall, a nice lightweight plane to use all day long.

It was made to be a user.

As for this whole “NewPlane vs Old Plane”? I usually call BS. Did it ever occur to those showoffs that HAVE to buy the expensive “new” planes, that the ones they are turning their noses up at were at one time, the top of the line planes of THEIR day. “Iron is too thin, NEED a newer thicker one, or it won’t work…” Again…BS. Maybe learn to tune and sharpen those OEM irons? Or, maybe just coast along and buy new irons when the latest one starts to get dull. Maybe L-N will sharpen it for you?

Flat soles? Retrack the iron, but leave it clamped down. set the plane on a flat surface. Place a finger tip at the diagonals….does the plane rock, any? If not, no need for the 0.00001” of flatness, plane will work just fine. Oh, and they are not warpped….they are worn from use. LOTS of use. Some of them were in use from over 100 years. You would be worn a bit too, working that long. Unless the planes get VERY hot, they will not warp. Wood will. Iron bodies? No. Unless you purposefully heat them up, that is.

That little block plane? Sharpen the iron, set to make a thin a cut as you can. These were to merely knock back a sharp edge, fair a joint, add a champfer. They were NOT intended to be smoothers. See-through shavings aren’t what those were about. A whisker of a shaving to tune a joint, make a door fit better, things like that.

Might know a wee bit about these plane shaped objects…

Maybe.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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