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After-market SawStop technology to different saw

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Forum topic by jklingel posted 04-19-2015 05:17 AM 2009 views 0 times favorited 61 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jklingel

41 posts in 624 days


04-19-2015 05:17 AM

Does anyone know if SawStop, Bosch, or anyone else has any plans to add blade-stopping capability to other brands of table saws? It just seems a no-brainer that someone would offer a “magic box” that could be fitted to other saws, since there are a trillion “other saws” currently in use. Thanks. john


61 replies so far

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bbasiaga

758 posts in 1462 days


#1 posted 04-19-2015 06:37 AM

Well this is sure to open a can of worms. But in short

Sawstop = no. They are trying to license/force their technology at outrageous prices on other manufacturers, who want none of it.

Bosch = probably not. I think they are part of this power tool association which has open sourced some or all of the technology currently being put in the Bosch contractor saw. So it would be up to the other MFGs to make their own adaptation of it.

It would be a big feat for either company to go back and reverse engineer their technology in to the myriad of other saws on the market. And with product lines in power tools changing rapidly at some of the price points (new models each year), a lot of the work they put in could be obsoleted by the time their retrofit kit was ready.

I would like to upgrade to a nice cabinet saw in the next year or so. Sawstop is a leader for me right now on quality and the safety feature, but I am hoping there is some alternative using the bosch technology that will come to market, or at least be announced, in that time.

-Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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English

517 posts in 944 days


#2 posted 04-19-2015 11:06 AM

I saw a system a few years ago that a man designed and built that used photo sensors around the blade guard to sense your hand getting to close to the blade. His system would stop the motor and use dynamic brake technology to stop the blade. He did not want to market this his self and was looking for investors.

Here is the link. http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

-- John, Suffolk Virgina

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johnstoneb

2149 posts in 1640 days


#3 posted 04-19-2015 11:59 AM

In a nutshell, The industry does not want to to put the technology on their saws. Sawstop developed the technology, offered it to the industry. They were turned down by the industry in such a way that they went to legislation and the courts and lost there also.
They then disigned and started selling their own saw in competition. They have developed the saw to the point it is quality wise one of the top saws on the market today and competitive on price. I think Bosch will probably end up miking a tablesaw and putting there technology on it. They will have the same problem selling to other manufacturers as sawstop.
I think that with two manufactures offering the technology that market forces may eventually force the other manufactures to start offering that technology but it will be year down the road. Who knows Bosch may have the money that sawstop didn’t to buy enough politicians to get some kind of legislation.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

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bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2534 days


#4 posted 04-19-2015 12:17 PM

Ok first Sawstop went to all big manufacturers offered to license it no one would touch it so he decides to build a class A saw around his invention. He did it and is kicking their butts in sales. Good for him. As to its costs. People think is made from a few off the shelf parts and it should be the same cost as a grizzly. Some don’t like his politics butt hey to each his own

Bosch is comming out with a saw called REAXX. It is a job site saw that will compete with Sawstop version. Bet you a dollar to doughnuts it’s about the same price. This technology is awesome but not cheap to manufacture. An emergency room visit is one hell of a lot cheaper

http://homefixated.com/bosch-reaxx-table-saw/

Here’s a video of the new Bosch.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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HarveyDunn

328 posts in 1198 days


#5 posted 04-19-2015 01:42 PM

Personally, I don’t get all that excited about stopping the blade, as I’m a push block/stick fanatic who never gets their hands within 8” of it.

Kickback is what I worry about.

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altendky

169 posts in 1677 days


#6 posted 04-19-2015 04:12 PM



Personally, I don t get all that excited about stopping the blade, as I m a push block/stick fanatic who never gets their hands within 8” of it.

Kickback is what I worry about.

- HarveyDunn

I would think they could add an additional trigger to deal with kickback, or at least reduce the velocities involved. In general, things (excepting the blade) should not be moving fast around a table saw. If they do it’s generally a bad thing… so retract the blade. Ooh, maybe I should patent that idea and sue SawStop for not implementing it and paying me royalties.

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HarveyDunn

328 posts in 1198 days


#7 posted 04-19-2015 04:19 PM

Kickback takes less than an instant.

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altendky

169 posts in 1677 days


#8 posted 04-19-2015 04:27 PM



Kickback takes less than an instant.

- HarveyDunn

Yep. Hardly means it’s not possible. See this previous post I made on the topic of necessary response times. I’m not sure what technology could measure velocities at that rate but then again I haven’t dug into high end laser-mouse style motion sensors or the like. It certainly may not be possible at a reasonable price with present technology, but even if that is true there is hope within the next 5-10 years with the extensive development being done for sensor technologies.

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jklingel

41 posts in 624 days


#9 posted 04-19-2015 05:32 PM

Thanks for the info. I did not know that SawStop offered the technology around the block and got dumped on. I like the idea Bosch came up with so the blade is not ruined, but then how often are you going to really use the emergency brake? The SawStop quality sure looks like it is there. Whirlwind looks interesting. cheers. john

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HerbC

1592 posts in 2326 days


#10 posted 04-19-2015 05:45 PM



...

An emergency room visit is one hell of a lot cheaper

...
- bonesbr549

Bones,

Think you got it backwards. I could have bought three SawStop saws for what my medical care cost when I had my tablesaw accident.

Be Careful!

Herb

-- Herb, Florida - Here's why I close most messages with "Be Careful!" http://lumberjocks.com/HerbC/blog/17090

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jklingel

41 posts in 624 days


#11 posted 04-19-2015 06:02 PM

Not to mention how inconvenient it is to lose a finger part or two. A woodworker (3rd generation, been at it for decades and does excellent work) came out last year to bid on our cabinets. He had a nasty table saw gash that almost cost him half his hand; he shortly thereafter bought a SawStop. Yes, push blocks and sticks can take abuse all day long and not complain, or else get a SawStop and HOPE it really works. cheers. j

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altendky

169 posts in 1677 days


#12 posted 04-19-2015 06:18 PM



Thanks for the info. I did not know that SawStop offered the technology around the block and got dumped on.

- jklingel

And they also sued all the other companies trying to force them to license and use the technology. Would have set a bad precedent if they had been able to force others to use the tech they had a patent (aka monopoly) on.

Anyways, the first reply really answered the question. It’s not a little bolt-on addition but rather a completely different structural design which would be much too costly and time consuming to apply to all the existing saw variations out there.

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AHuxley

493 posts in 2789 days


#13 posted 04-20-2015 12:12 AM

As for the OP (an aftermarket replacement for a blade drop and or brake system) the answer is a simple NO. Retrofitting a saw would almost certainly require replacement of the entire trunnion/motor assembly along with the electrical controls. While this is probably simple from a engineering perspective the cost of the kit would almost certainly get very close to the cost of a new saw with the parts already installed. Plus manufacturers would have to provide a LOT of support for the retrofits and taking on the liability of these owner installed kits would be crazy. Requiring a service center to perform the install might alleviate some of the exposure liability wise but would almost certainly push the total cost to at or above a whole new saw.

It is possible that as this technology becomes more completely adopted that there could be a retrofit along the lines of the vapor ware Whirlwind but the efficacy and cost of that approach is still unknown. Bottom line if you want the safety pony up for a Sawstop or the Bosch if a site saw is adequate for your needs.

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Rob

704 posts in 2538 days


#14 posted 04-20-2015 12:33 AM



Sawstop = no. They are trying to license/force their technology at outrageous prices on other manufacturers, who want none of it.

Update: Steve Gass has said within the past year that he no longer has any intention of licensing his technology to anyone.


I saw a system a few years ago that a man designed and built that used photo sensors around the blade guard to sense your hand getting to close to the blade. His system would…stop the blade. He did not want to market this his self and was looking for investors.

Here is the link. http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

- English

Are you sure he was using photosensors for flesh detection? That seems like it would be very prone to false tripping, but on the other hand I suppose it might work well enough. Anyway, I emailed him a few weeks ago encouraging him to bring his product to market on his own if he doesn’t find anyone to license it soon, but he said he doesn’t really have the time or resources to do that on his own and would rather see some younger, energetic engineers refine his design and bring it to market.

-- Ask an expert or be the expert - http://woodworking.stackexchange.com

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bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2534 days


#15 posted 04-20-2015 12:58 AM


...

An emergency room visit is one hell of a lot cheaper

...
- bonesbr549

Bones,

Think you got it backwards. I could have bought three SawStop saws for what my medical care cost when I had my tablesaw accident.

Be Careful!

Herb

Yep but noticed after that stupid 60 min limit

- HerbC


-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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