LumberJocks Woodworking Forum banner

Swaying Bench? Solutions?

2K views 22 replies 14 participants last post by  wormil 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
My stretchers sit pretty low compared to the top of my bench height is 35" with my stretchers sitting 22" below the top. My legs are 4×4's and my stretchers are 2×4's. My stretchers are connected to the 4×4's by lap joints then bolted to the legs themselves.

I get excessive wobble front to back and a decent amount side to side. This was not an issue a few weeks ago. I did make a single change to my bench and that was cutting the legs shorter because my bench was sitting at around 37". cutting of the legs made the stretchers closer to the floor instead of the top.

Last thing… my top is removable the legs sit in pockets on the bottom of the top which are 1 1/2" deep. I could flip my base over so my stretchers end up very close to the top but then from the stretchers to the floor would be 22".

anyways thank you for reading and hopefully leaving a helpful hint on how I can resolve this issue.
 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
Do you have a objection to glueing and pegging the stretchers to the legs? The lap joints might be getting loose due to season changes even if just by a tiny amount or just taking them apart and putting back together loosened the joints enough to cause racking. How many bolts do you use on each leg? I would think that 2 would be the minimum but more would be better with glue and pegs being ideal. You could use the bolt holes to peg as long as they are a tight fit and cause the shoulders to sit tight otherwise plug the holes and drill new ones ideally using draw boring.

If I am reading what you are saying right your stretchers are still about a 1/3rd of the way up from the floor over the entire height of the bench which seems like a good height to me. The ones on my bench are lower than that and it's very solid but they are pegged and glued into the legs which are also splayed out some.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
so I should unbolt my 2/4 s and glue them as well as bolt them?

- LucasWoods
I would glue the legs on than after it drys drill out the bolt holes to the next size up dowels and peg them. Make sure the dowel is a tight fit for the best results. A better option would be to draw bore the joints but glue and pegs would probably be sufficient as well if you make sure they are tight against the shoulders and well secured before you peg them. I think you will notice a significant difference in strength if you do that.

I always liked the idea of having a bench that could broken down but after giving in and glueing/pegging the joints I will never go back with the possible exception of though tenons that have removable pegs like this bench.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/wMyers/moravianBench/moravianBench-01.asp
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
yeah I need a bench that can break down because I am in the Military and move a lot

- LucasWoods
Than checkout the stretcher tenon design in the link I posted in my last post. The though tenon with a peg that pulls it tight against the shoulder is a really good design that has proven itself for long term use in antiques.

Good quality bed bolts with tenons might work also but I think the design Will Myers talks about is a good cheap alternative. You would glue the short side joints than have to redo the long joints to though tenon's.
 
#10 ·
An alternative would be to screw a piece of plywood to the back of the base. Doesn't have to be a thick piece (1/4" would be sufficient), but size it to span the legs and reach from the bottom of the top to about 4" off the floor. Screws up each leg, about 3" spacing. Quick, easy and.cheap, but quite effective.
 
#11 ·
Lap joints in a workbench base will move. Mark's suggestion is the best one, make a plywood "box" around the legs to rid the base of its pivot points.

Better would be a new base with housed M/T joints and if you want to make it portable connect the legs to the stretchers with rods and captured nuts.

BTW, It has been ages since I've used glue on a work bench base. A draw bored M/T joint is all that is needed and I expect stronger than a glued joint. As always with anything wood….YMMV.

ken
 
#13 ·
Your problem is the lap joints.
Mortise and tenon are necessary for a workbench.

Also, 5×5 or 6×6 would be better for legs.

I don't think bolting anything is a long term solution.

I would replace all the 2×4 stretchers with 2×8 and see what that does first.
Don't make a bigger lap joint, just notch the 2×8.
 
#15 ·
I bet if you recess those bolt holes and then sheet the outsides and back of the bench with plywood you'll be fine. The 4×4 legs and 2×4 stretchers should have plenty of rigidity. I think its just the joint that is getting you. I built a bench using mostly 2×6s because of the weight of the machine. It wan't until the plywood sheet was on that it got super solid.

-Brian
 
#17 ·
I think your main problem is pivoting of the stretchers around the axis of the single carriage bolt securing the stretchers to the leg. If there's enough room, add 2 more (smaller) bolts at opposite corners, or remove the single center bolt and replace with two, one above the other.
 
#19 ·
add sheeting….
Think about what force it take to take a rectangle of plywood and 'rack it' to make a parallelogram.
Same reason for the plywood in the back of the case.

If you sheet three sides - leave the front open, it will be rock stable.
 
#20 ·
i will probably end up getting plywood and building some sort of shelving underneath part of it. But that will be after I build my first project for my wife.. Which hopefully will open her pockets a bit for woodworking expenses lol.
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Lucas:

I'm not exactly sure if I'm barking up the right tree after reading all of the above other than You have a Swaying Bench.

There's a lot of Heavy Duty Suggestions being tossed around here. That Might or Might Not be required. NO Insult Intended!

I made a Smaller Bench to get some tools off of my Larger Bench and storage for other larger tools as you can see below. This was about a days build. it's 2'x4' and it's built exactly the same way as my Larger one was. (4'x7')

Construction is: 2- 2'x4' Frames, built from 2"x4"s, for top and bottom, glued and screwed, butt joints only.. a sheet of 1/2" fir ply for the top, glued and screwed in place. Bottom Panel cut out to fit around the Legs, also glued and screwed to the frame. Legs are 2"x4" Bolted Flush to the outside of the top and bottom frame. Total of 8 Bolts Only.

I also wanted mine to be Portable if required. That's achieved by simply removing the 8 Bolts (You now have 2 Panels, 4 Legs, and A Bag of Nuts, Washers and Bolts)

I built it 3 Years ago. It has NOT moved at all. Solid as a Rock. It does not Rack.

The Larger one did a wee bit, side to side. That was resolved as suggested above with a 1/4" sheet of Plywood about 3'x4" Glued and Nailed to the Front (7' Part). I built that one 5 years ago. Still Rock Solid.

My personal opinion only, is that yours might be moving because of the Slide On Pocket Top. especially if it's just sitting on there and not fastened somehow.

If I forgot some detail about mine …Just Holler …LOL..

Regards: Rick

Gas Tool Machine Rectangle Engineering


Wood Rectangle Gas Machine Metal
 

Attachments

#23 ·
Wood Tire Outdoor bench Wheel Wood stain


each 2×4 where it makes contact to the benches leg is bolted through the 2×4 and through the leg. so in total 4 screws are holding 4 2×4 s to my bench legs.

- LucasWoods
Might have been said already but your problem is the stretchers having no shoulders. Stretchers do not prevent racking, shoulders do. That's why most workbench designs use half laps or mortise and tenons. There are a couple of easy ways to fix it. 1) Make the existing stretchers into half lap joints. 2) Glue shoulders onto the 2×4 stretchers. I've done it. Make them a bit beefy, you can taper them into the stretcher for aesthetics. 3) Replace the 2×4s with 2×6s but cut a tenon on the end of the 2×6 to fit the existing mortise.
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top