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Help interpreting winding sticks

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Forum topic by LBH posted 04-15-2015 11:25 PM 997 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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LBH

102 posts in 655 days


04-15-2015 11:25 PM

Topic tags/keywords: plane question

I’m having difficulty understanding where to remove material on the top slab of my Roubo bench build. Specifically reading the winding sticks and what side to remove material from. One end or both ends? What is the reference? The lumber is soft maple.

I’ve never undertaken a planning job like this. I am not sure ya’ll can help me from the photos. Any comments (good/bad/funny) are appreciated.
Luke

Many thanks,

-- Disclaimer: Author does not warrant the accuracy of the comments in this post including spell'n and frammer. I'm just another Dufus on a forum.


18 replies so far

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

13738 posts in 2084 days


#1 posted 04-15-2015 11:33 PM

Suggest either the left or right side of the lam in work become the reference face. The key is to square the back ‘top,’ or far end, to that face. Then use the front winding stick in various positions to square that part of the lam to the back stick. In other words, need one of them to be ‘right,’ or the desired end state.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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LBH

102 posts in 655 days


#2 posted 04-15-2015 11:43 PM



Suggest either the left or right side of the lam in work become the reference face. The key is to square the back top, or far end, to that face. Then use the front winding stick in various positions to square that part of the lam to the back stick. In other words, need one of them to be right, or the desired end state.

- Smitty_Cabinetshop


Thanks Smitty!
That helps a lot.

I’ve made some good progress with with the back third of the slab. I am using my Starrett and squaring off the left side. I’ll check the right too. They are pretty close so far. I’d identify the high spots, color them, and take them down working a little at a time. I’m getting the best results with my adj mouth block plane. I’m not getting a feel for what the No. 5 is doing.

Now that I know how to read the sticks I’ll go back over portion I worked at check for twist.

-- Disclaimer: Author does not warrant the accuracy of the comments in this post including spell'n and frammer. I'm just another Dufus on a forum.

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

13738 posts in 2084 days


#3 posted 04-16-2015 12:16 AM

LBH, glad to hear it!

Yep, flatten the top from your reference face, the left side, then the right side to be square to the top. Work around the timber that way and you should be good. The key is, no matter how tempting, don’t mess with the reference face or subsequent sides as they’re completed. So make sure all is right before moving on, and you’re good!

And don’t forget to check flat with a winding stick length-wise down the piece!

Welcome to LJs!

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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PatrickH

51 posts in 1353 days


#4 posted 04-16-2015 02:09 PM

First, I always make sure there is a very slight hollow along the width of my face. Any small humps can give you bad readings with your winding sticks. Then, I check wind at least and the ends and middle. If either of my ends are level with the middle, I only take material off of the high corner of the end that doesn’t agree. Actually, that’s not exactly how I do it (more on that later). If both ends disagree with the middle in opposite directions, then you can take material from the high corners on both ends.

The method I actually use, is similar to what David Charlesworth espouses. I always take full length passes to avoid creating any humps along the length. I measure wind and mark the low spots at each end. Then I take a full length pass from each side avoiding my low marks. Then, I work inwards taking full length passes. Once, I’ve done this for the entire face, I’ll take a full length pass for the entire width and check my wind again.

I have more information on my blog: Roubo Build: Milling the Top

I also highly recommend David’s Hand Plane Essential Dvd series.

-- http://bloodsweatsawdust.com

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LBH

102 posts in 655 days


#5 posted 04-16-2015 02:40 PM


I have more information on my blog: Roubo Build: Milling the Top

I also highly recommend David s Hand Plane Essential Dvd series.

- PatrickH


Patrick,
Wow!
I just clicked on your blog. Talk about timely.
It will take me some time to read and digest. I have some cognitive issues.
This makes sense and should help a lot.

Walking an 8’ pass will test my agility. I’m portly and not too agile. Perhaps I need woodworking fitness classes.

Thanks for posting.

Luke

-- Disclaimer: Author does not warrant the accuracy of the comments in this post including spell'n and frammer. I'm just another Dufus on a forum.

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waho6o9

7175 posts in 2042 days


#6 posted 04-16-2015 02:44 PM

Interesting!

View LBH's profile

LBH

102 posts in 655 days


#7 posted 04-16-2015 03:24 PM

I’m building from Marc “The Wood Whispererer” Spagnolo’s Bencherfted Roubo plan. In his video he uses dominos to orient the tops before gluing. I still had some slippage. esp since I incorporated David Barron’s leg joint just prior to glue up.

I mention this because, and I am speculating, this makes planing a laminated beam a little different than one piece of timber. The timber doesn’t have the same type of undulations. At least I think this is so.

Incorporating David Barron’s joint caused me an aesthetic problem that’s killing me. I was short on timbers that were 4” wide so I domino’d the off cut and glued two pieces together. I put the skinny strip on the bottom of the slab so it wouldn’t matter if the domino came through.

Marc’s directions were to flatten the bottom and use that side on bed of the surface planer. Cool. Until I exposed some domino pockets. No worries, right? Then I realized I oriented the dovetail leg joint to the bottom. Which means it’s now the top. I am trying to sell myself of the “It’s just a workbench concept”

Then there’s the board with prominent grain that I oriented backwards. It doesn’t plane easily with the grain. So that’s where I am. When I finish I’ll have a bench that I can practice planing …. “Which came first? Being able to plane or building a bench for planing?”

Thanks O’ Bunch for your help.
Luke
EDIT: I thought I’d get a little further along before thinking “It’s only a workbench”

David Barron's Video

-- Disclaimer: Author does not warrant the accuracy of the comments in this post including spell'n and frammer. I'm just another Dufus on a forum.

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rwe2156

2198 posts in 946 days


#8 posted 04-16-2015 05:30 PM

I wouldn’t worry about it at this stage.

Its alot easier to do the glue up and use a rail and router set up to plane the top flat.

Wood Whisperer has a video on it.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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PatrickH

51 posts in 1353 days


#9 posted 04-16-2015 07:47 PM

I haven’t yet flattened the top of the top. The bottom only took about an hour and a half, because I took the time to properly joint my sections. It would have taken me more time to build a router jig.

LBH, jointing 8’ sections by hand isn’t too bad. Just keep a sharp iron and lubricate the sole of your jointer.

-- http://bloodsweatsawdust.com

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Brett

660 posts in 2148 days


#10 posted 04-16-2015 08:13 PM

I like to place my reference winding stick near the center of the board and then flatten the two halves of the board to match the center. I feel like I’m removing less wood that way.

-- More tools, fewer machines.

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LBH

102 posts in 655 days


#11 posted 04-16-2015 10:52 PM



I wouldn t worry about it at this stage.

Its alot easier to do the glue up and use a rail and router set up to plane the top flat.

Wood Whisperer has a video on it.

- Robert Engel


Hi Robert,
I watched that video 6-9 months back. It was cool.
However. Since this bench is primarily for planing, (kinda), I don’t think it would be right not to use hand tools. I have to learn to use them anyway.

I haven t yet flattened the top of the top. The bottom only took about an hour and a half, because I took the time to properly joint my sections. It would have taken me more time to build a router jig.

LBH, jointing 8 sections by hand isn t too bad. Just keep a sharp iron and lubricate the sole of your jointer.
- PatrickH


Patrick, Thanks. It’s coming along.


I like to place my reference winding stick near the center of the board and then flatten the two halves of the board to match the center. I feel like I m removing less wood that way.
- Brett

Brett,
That’s a great suggestion. Make a lot of sense.

I have good news. I did the geometry and calculated the stock for my legs AND, I was able to flip the joint. The bottom is back to being a bottom and the top will have no unsightly domino pockets.

The width of the joint is slightly larger but using 140mm legs I’ll have a 12mm shoulder on each side of the tenon.

Here is my all time favorite planing video. Paul Sellers. I’ve probably watched it six times and I’m still trying to retain the stuff.

-- Disclaimer: Author does not warrant the accuracy of the comments in this post including spell'n and frammer. I'm just another Dufus on a forum.

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

2413 posts in 2387 days


#12 posted 04-16-2015 11:09 PM

I am new to this: I have only been doing woodworking for 12 years. Construction for 36 yerars. What is a “winding stick”?

-- "You may have your PHD but I have my GED and my DD 214"

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LBH

102 posts in 655 days


#13 posted 04-16-2015 11:11 PM



I am new to this: I have only been doing woodworking for 12 years. Construction for 36 yerars. What is a “winding stick”?

- Jim Finn


Ya gotta watch the Paul Sellers video in the link above. You see it firsthand plus lot of other stuff.
Money back guarantee watching

-- Disclaimer: Author does not warrant the accuracy of the comments in this post including spell'n and frammer. I'm just another Dufus on a forum.

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LBH

102 posts in 655 days


#14 posted 04-16-2015 11:13 PM



I am new to this: I have only been doing woodworking for 12 years. Construction for 36 yerars. What is a “winding stick”?

- Jim Finn

Non-video answer.
Place a sick hanging over the stock at each end. Sight down the middle like a putt.
If the sticks are out of plane the stock has a twist “wind”

-- Disclaimer: Author does not warrant the accuracy of the comments in this post including spell'n and frammer. I'm just another Dufus on a forum.

View PatrickH's profile

PatrickH

51 posts in 1353 days


#15 posted 04-17-2015 11:50 AM

Jim, the exaggerate the amount of twist in a board so that it is easier to see.

-- http://bloodsweatsawdust.com

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