Veneering question for your consideration.

Not necessary with good plywood and you are using a top quality product.
Doug if you pull open a high end dresser you will find it in abundance and not sandwiched either.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Doug, When we get veneered panels in for a project, the backs are never veneered unless they are panels for a door and seen from both sides. I don’t understand the reasoning behind doing both sides but I have seen it recommended.

-- Jerry--A man can never have enough tools or clamps

CM –
I always thought one ran the risks of potato chipping (introducing both cup and twist) the panel, specifically with a wood core unless the faces were balanced in terms of ability interact with relative humidity. I just wanted to make sure as I plan to use a small marquetry piece on the inside face and didn’t want to Bordnerize it after doing all the work with the marquetry.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

I’m going top go the other way, Doug, even though I’m quite sure Bob and CM have more experience than me, so take it for what it’s worth. :-)

If you were talking about 1/2” or 3/4” ply, I’d say not to sweat it. But because you’re dealing with pretty thin stuff, my instinct says if you veneer one side it’s going to potato chip before the glue is cured. I could be wrong… as I said, this is just instinct.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

I would not think it necessary to add another layer of veneer to the back. Baltic birch is strong and stable. If you were using MDF or a glued-up panel then I would say yes, but not here.

You can always do a test piece first.

-- The days are long and the years are short...

It’s necessary especially if you take the piece out of the clamps or press before ALL the moisture is gone. The glue puts moisture into the substrate. Keeping your material flat until the moisture gets back to normal may eleviate the need for veneering both sides. I agree with Myron about doing a test piece. I’ve veneered 1/4” substrates and have had them taco like Charlie mentioned. But I let the glue cure for an hour and then pulled it from the clamps. I think there was still to much moisture in the piece and I pulled it to early. Maybe allowing it to dry overnight may help. Personally, you veneer both sides at the same time, so other then material what are you losing if you play it safe and do it the recommended way?

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

Why not try a test piece to see what hapens?

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

If it’s important, do both sides, if noone will ever see it, and the groove is tight, skip it. Every panel I have done just one side of, no matter what the substrate, warps.

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

I always veneer both sides. It is necessary in order to keep the material from warping. Tremendous force is put upon the material when veneering one side. It will always cup. I have been veneering for quite a few years. This has been the normal procedure for centuries.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

I have faced glued a piece of 1/4 Red Oak ply to 1/2” ply to make the back for a cabinet. It was a cold glue lamination with Carpenters Glue with 1/2” sheet was placed on the garage floor (with a old plastic table cloth on the floor) and the 1/4” on top of it. I then placed allot of weight on top of the glue up and let it dry for a day or so. Cut it to size and it came out perfect!

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

I say yes both sides ,It’s not a big deal on something that size but you need to equalize the moisture on both sides.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

how come they only do one side of laminate kitchen counter tops yet those last years without warping?

I’ve goy some examples of plywood panels that only have veneer on one side. They are bowed like a banana.

I’m recomend doing both sides. I know that it’s encased into the sides, but I still do it.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Mike, you can get away with that on kitchen countertops because #1 it’s laminate and doesn’t react to the cement #2 it’s contact cement not wood glue so there is no moisture problems. #3 it’s on particle board which is typically a stable substrate. I’ve seen plenty of warped countertops btw. They just get fastend to the cabinet, which straightens them out typically.
You can get away with paperback veneer and contact cement if one side is all you want to do. You won’t even need to wait for the glue to dry. Just put the cement on the substrate and the veneer, wait the amount of time the directions require, then stick them together. Probably about 15 minutes and you’re done.
I’m not quite sure I understand the desire to only do one side. You could use a cheaper veneer on the back side, so long as it’s the same thickness as the front.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

And there you have it – I’d do both sides.

-- Bill - "Suit yourself and let the rest be pleased." http://www.cajunpen.com/

Well, I believe the votes are in. Thanks guys.

Good to see you, Bill.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Consulting a woodworker for advice is like consulting a priest on matters of church policy. If you ask enough of them, eventually you’ll get the answer you want to hear. :-)

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

Hi Douglas,
I just finished a veneering class with Paul Schurch (www.schurchwoodwork.com) and he said that you always veneer both sides if you want to be safe. In the the class we did as many as three layers on both sides. I guess it as depends on if you want to gamble on what it will look like in five years. Paul said take you chances on things that will fall apart only after you are gone.

-- Garysharp "When sharpening woodworking tools, good enough,...isn't" “Your life’s complete only when your knowledge passes on”.

I would do both sides and in answer to Kolwdwkr yes you can use contact cement for the veneer but if the sealer you use is the same base (ie urea formaldehyde or thinners ) you run the risk of the veneer lifting of the substrate (wheter you do both sides or not)

Hooky

-- Happiness is a way of travel , not a destination (Roy Goodman)

Doug -
While you ‘Should’ be just fine with one surface…Because the panel is captured in the groove it won’t warp, why risk it.
To add to what Kolwdwkr said – when I learned veneering – the reason the countertops done get both sides is – it is cheaper (of course)
They get away with it because for the premade countertops they will use a RF cured glue (microwave) so no extra moisture.
But number 1 – is that the countertop is screwed down, and contact cement is pretty weak.

Avoid contact cement for veneering and marquetry – I use white glue, or Plastic resin. White is easiest, but resin is easier to clean up the tape from the marquetry – because you can rewet the tape and peel it more easily.

Good Luck
Dave

-- Its never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.

notice I said Paper Back veneer when using contact cement. You don’t have to worry about your finish messing up the glue when using paper back. If that was a problem I don’t think they would make it. It’s just another way of being cheap, somewhat like wanting to do one side only ;-). As a cabinetmaker you see a lot of things, things you wouldn’t see or do making furniture, boxes, etc. It’s all part of production. The faster you go the more money you make, that is until what you are doing fails because of shortcuts.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~