Osborne Manufacturing - Worst Customer Service Ever!

Thanks for the post.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

i must have gotten mine before you got yours off the bottom of the barrel !
there was 1 o ring on the floor after i had it toghether , and no referance in the assembly instructions .
so i put it in a drawer , maybe ill figure it out someday .
i take everything with a grain of salt these days ,
i buy what i can afford , and do the best i can with it .
things just aren’t the same as the ” good old days “

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

I’ve had a Osborne for a number of years in it works great. I have not dealt with the company before and it sounds like You’ve had a real bad experience.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Thanks for the post.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

David Osborne is a member here. He recently offered free shipping on a miter gauge to a disable police officer from the Netherlands.

I’d bet he’d be very interested in learning who you dealt with and correcting any issues. He was wonderful to deal with IME, but any company’s reputation is only as good as the weakest link, and sometimes people have bad days. Give David a heads up…I’ll bet he’d appreciate it.

Thanks for the heads up. In 99% of customer issues, we do all we can to satisfy our customers. I think we have demonstrated that. It is not to our advantage to make people angry. We appreciate the fact that they chose our guide over the dozens of others available. There are, as we all know two sides to every story. I don’t think anyone believes that we just arbitrarily tried to fight with Joe for no reason. One post like this can erase years of exceptional customer service.
I also don’t think it is appropriate for me to go tit for tat on his description of the incident, we will take the hit, but do think I should offer a little insight.
In fairness, much of the factual data Joe stated are true and correct. Much more was left out. Yes I saw where the angle chart sticker had been mistakenly applied to the bottom of the guide bar and removed, yes he was told to buy a guide from someone else, and yes, as the conversation escalated to a shouting match he was hung up on. Not something we are proud of, and I offer my apologies for that, but once in awhile you can be pushed to the limit by unreasonable demands from exceptionally “meticulous” individuals. Based on Joe’s complaint about the replacement fence being damaged, which two of us looked at carefully and saw no damage at all it was clear that we would not be able to satisfy him. The exchange was adversarial and heated and it was clear that he would probably not be happy with anything we sent him. I know we will be criticized for it, but regrettably he is not a customer we can satisfy. The incra is a fine guide and I hope it serves him well.

-- David Osborne, www.osbornemfg.com

WOW, that’s unbelievable! I bought mine a few years ago, and to my amazement, it was spot on perfect when it arrived! The only thing I had to do was put the fence, and the sandpaper on. When my g/f accidentally threw away the remainder of the sandpaper, I called Osborne, and they sent me another one free!

-- Matt, Houston Texas

Thanks for the explanation David. Sounds like quite a bit was left out.

-- Jerry--A man can never have enough tools or clamps

quite a bit is always left out. I’m surprised at how some of these companies stay straight faced when a customer goes gung ho. I’m also surprised at how it ends up on LJ’s, gets supported until the truth is told, and then flips when the supplier defends himself.
I actually appreciate Davids response to this. He was honest and feels the same as I do. You can’t satisfy everyone. Sending them to the competition just gives the problem to someone else. In this situation the problem isn’t the product, it’s the client. If the supplier is willing to work with you to rectify the situation, stay calm until you’re happy. Getting loud and in their face doesn’t help. And trying to deface their company here doesn’t help either.
Are we going to see a compaint post on a new incra guage…hhmmm….we’ll see

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

David: ” I know we will be criticized for it, but regrettably he is not a customer we can satisfy”

What a lot of consumers don’t know is that there are a number of horrible customers out there .

They find fault with anything and everything. They are aggressive, rude and many times dishonest.
They are complete strangers to the truth and when they don’t get their “justice” they come to forums and present one sided descriptions of how they were treated.

There are very honest people who do not think that they have had a bargain unless they have cheated a merchant.
In a just world retailers should keep a “sh-t list and ban the buggers from purchasing ever!

The other 99% of you are welcome in most establishments and the aim is to please you and in turn receive your support.

My remarks are not directed at anyone here but intended to speak to a constant and ever growing problem.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Nice to hear both sides David. You’ve been more than fair with me in the past, and I had no doubt there was more to this story than we knew. Your candid response is much appreciated, and I respect you for posting it.

Nothing against the original poster at all, but I never take individual horror stories like this too seriously. Even if the company did screw one up royally, those things are bound to happen on occasion. I look for a pattern.

Joe, I appreciate you sharing your experience, because if I hear similar stories from several other customers, I’ll know to avoid this company.

And David, I appreciate you stepping forward and taking your lumps for things that could have been handled better.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

No offense to ANYONE…ecspecially the original poster…I have been shopping around for a new miter gage for my new Grizzly for awhile…and had it narrowed down between the Osborn and the incra…basicly I was just waiting on one or the other to go on sale…and buy that one.

I know there will ALWAYS be bad experiences out there on both sides….customers who receive bad service…and company’s who have customers that expect the moon and throw a fit when they do not get it.

But if anything, David Osborne’s reply has convinced me to buy a Osborn miter gage (When I find one on sale lol)...his prompt reply shows to me anyways, that he cares about his company’s reputation and tries to please his customers. I am not taking sides and not saying Joe lied nor that David did or is. But the fact that David did not slam Joe or call him a lier says volumes in my book. All he said was “There is more to the story and two sides to every story”...then proceeded to say he “The incra is a fine guide and I hope it serves him well.”

Again NO offense to Joe…..but of the several dozen reviews I have read about the Osborn ….ALL have given it glowing reports…This is the first negative one I have seen. And as I said…after seeing Davids response….I am pretty sure I will try his miter gage.

-- Don S.E. OK

Hi Bob:

If you want the Osborne miter, it is now on sale for $110 verses $165 with FREE SHIPPING and I would suspect no taxes (depending on your location). This is as good as it gets for anyone looking for a first rate miter gauge at a rock bottom price. At this price, I’m so tempted to buy one for my router table.

http://www.osbornemfg.com/

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

David roberts:
I have one and did a revue of it a few weeks ago. I just made a jig for it so I could back it up on the tablesaw far enough to do 18” cuts without binding on the table edge on the forward movement.
I should post a picture of it I gues.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I have been looking at new miter gauges for sometime and had settled upon the Osborne. Based on the free shipping and sale price and Miterguys response I went directly to to the site and ordered mine. The old addage that you cant please everyone is very evident in the post. I am very hopeful that my new miter gauge will serve me well. If there are issues, which I dont expect, will be handled in a more sensitive and productive manner.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

I wish I needed a new miter gauge…..I’d sure buy a new Osborne

-- Life used to be soooo much simpler!!!!

Funny how a post about a customer service problem can have this effect, but….

I have been thinking about a miter gauge for a while, and this thread got me really thinking about it. After doing more research and reading a bunch of reviews on the Osborne EB3, I just ordered one as well.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

Bob2, did you post the pic. I may have missed it.

Charlie and Ken – glad to see common sense prevails. I bet you’re really gonna enjoy using it.

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

Interesting that this should come up. After reading the earlier reviews and comments I ordered this miter just a day or to before leaving for KY the last time. My wife told me it arrived the next day either 3 or 4 days after placing the order. Returned home yesterday and assembled the miter today inspected every piece and didn’t fined so much as a smudged fingerprint. assembled it, took it apart for no reason other that to get to know it better and then reassembled it.Checked it for accuracy, dead on. took it for a test drive and couldn’t be more pleased. Patron I think that the ‘o’ ring you are referring to is one of the “extension clam o-rings”, ref # 33 on the parts list it the manual. Of course it could just be a extra that jumped into the box ant the factory.

-- RTB. "dumb animals are not stupid they simply can't talk "

I have had my EB-3 for over a year now, picked it up before the price increase and used my 10% b-day coupon from Woodcraft. Came out of the box perfect and it has been a bute to work with. The only sad thing is I caught the fence in the blade once …totally my fault! :(

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

sIKE:

I have the Incra SE and the fence can be adjusted to just a fraction from the blade. I know one day I’m gonna catch it on a true miter cut. I check 3 times as a habit. It drives me crazy. Sometimes I almost want to weld it so I’m not tempted to move in too close.

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

David,
I am asuming by your post that you have both the Incra AND the Osborne miter gages….I want to ask you a question if you do not mind.

I was about to order one tonight but got busy in the shop and did not get around to it….but if you had to only pick “One” of the two miter gages to have and use in your shop….which one would you choose, the Incra or the Osborne ?

If you would rather not answer that on the forum…just send me a pm. Thanks for your opinion in advice.

Don

-- Don S.E. OK

David Roberts:
I did a small write up on my blog on the apron add on.
Soory I didn’t see you message until this AM.
http://lumberjocks.com/boboswin/blog/10005

Cheers
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I don’t think so many members should give David Osborne and his company all the credits here. From the sound of it seems like one response from David and then we got all excited and thinks he cares utmost about us all and 100% commited to customer satisfaction?

I understand Osborne’s standpoint, sometimes there are customers who are troublesome and unresasonable, but it is the extent they go to to make them happy which seperates decent costumer service from great customer service. In a stretch, “meticulous individuals” probably makes for less than 5% of their revenue.

Granted JoeMag is just ranting on the forum, anyone can choose to ignore the issue if you don’t like it. But from his conversation with the service rep, confirmed by David, that was VERY BAD customer service, basically telling you to frack off and we are not giving your money back, not even sugarcoated. Under any circumstance that is unacceptable.

JoeMag may be overly picky but not completely unreasonable. Unlike some other person, he is not demanding a public apology. When I buy something new, I do want it completely new and properly packaged and pristine. It’s only a mitre gauge, not a hard to handle 500lb cabinet saw. If I am paying for something with cosmetic defect I would pay less for a refurbished unit.

Osborne could have shipped JoeMag another fence, making sure it is new and pristine and wrap it in tons of bubble wrap, and most likely everybody will be happy. That would be great customer service. The fact that David did not slam Joe or call him a lier, and all the other LJ’s receiving perfectly good units, convince me of David’s integrity and their product quality. But in regard to their customer service, it was mediocore at best and in my opinion unacceptable when they tell a customer, “screw you”.

-- Ed

Ed, you make valid points. But I appreciate it when a vendor stands up and admits the situation was not handled correctly, which David did.

I didn’t order this miter gauge because this thread made me think Osborne has the best customer service on the planet. But the discussion did spark my interest in the product, and it was the stellar reviews that convinced me to purchase it.

I guess it just proves the old saying that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

David I would love such a miter gauge but My saw a European German made with a sliding table,it has funny slots in it .Also I am in Scotland UK otherwise I would be interested.But I have a friend near me who has an American delta saw which he imported from the USA. He bought from Ebay an Osborn miter gauge and had problems with it and Davids company kindly sent him a new miter gauge. So it is a very humbling experience to watch him being lambasted like this when the seems to run a great American company ,which bends over backwards to be helpful ,if you approcah them in a sophisticated mature and adult way .Thanks david I wish you made the gauges with my mitre slot or even without a miter slot and I could have a special one made is this possible .Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

I too have looked at Osborne’s mitre guage and am basically a bit surprised by this (not the customer service everyone is entitled to a mistake now and then – but the fact that a damaged item on a new purchase seems to have been replaced with an item that appears to be blemished/used/damaged – and this apparently was not disclosed to the customer).

We all have to realize that as human beings we all have good days and bad days. Unfortunately, a bad day for a customer service representative can cause a company tremendous grief. I am no psychologist so I do not know the whys and wherefors….. I respect Osborne for stepping up and not trying to side step a bad situation, that certainly shows character. I understand JoeMags position too…you pay good hard earned money for something and you expect to receive an item in good shape….this was not the case as I read in this situation.

Does an item have to be pristine…it depends on the type of blemish/problem…Most companies will not sell an item as new if it has some kind of visable flaw….If the company is shipping a replacement item for a item received damage then they should inform the customer if the replacement is factory reworked or not a new part. As long as it is serviceable as new and no blemishes or glaring flaws…that shouldn’t be too much of a problem. And as long as I get a good working piece of equipment then I am usually satisfied by that (certainly, some folks will not be…and a company should have a policy in place for those situations – I think a quick refund/return is the best course there or just insure you replace new parts with new parts)

I feel you have to consider what the overall effect is on the equipment. We all know that woodworking tools take a beating and will not be pristine after a few uses….knicks and blemishes will always happen one way or the other….but if I buy a new machine I want it to have suffient protection from rust/oxidation on the coating…and the moving parts to function as required. If I am buying new, then I want the privlege of breaking it in…that is why you are paying more for the new in my opinion.

Now an integral part like the motor or other moving parts would be a different consideration – If I bought a new saw and the motor shows up DOA…when I inform the company’s customer service – they should send me a new part – if it wants to send me a rework…I want a discount or a refund as that is not acceptable…if the machine has a problem during the warranty period…then receiving a reworked part is fair as I have received some service – it depends on the time frame.

A company makes a decision how they want to treat the above situations…and by that is how they should be judged. If there are continuous complaints about rudeness….etc….and those are not addressed then they will suffer the consequences….if someone has a bad day and does not make a habit of this then give that employee a stern warning and keep an eye on him/her…Termination would be immediate if this situation becomes chronic. A customer must be treated with utmost respect…the only time this is not the case is when they are abusive.

Well time to remove the soap box…sorry for the ultra long post…

-- Woodworking.....My small slice of heaven!

Alistair, I though you said you had access to machining capabilities?
It seems relatively straight forward to mill the existing miter slot bar on the Osborne gauge to fit your euro saw.
have you given that any thought?
Maybe a closer look at your friends unit with a caliper could resolve this for you?

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Even if you get a bad item in the post and are seriously disappointed with it.That does not give you enlightenment to be nasty when sorting this out with the company most companies have employees that can make mistakes ,I bought a brand new ultra incra jig from England when it arrived it was in quite good condition but had been used the company eventually gave me some router bits as compensation but looking back I accepted them but would have preferred a new replacement which I was offered but I had already fitted it to the bench( impatience).I talked quietly to them and treated them like normal human beings no voices were raise on either side they were and still are a great company Tilgear in England. I don’t think that David was wrong when a customer is so abusive to your staff swearing etc there is little point in trying to offer further negotiation and that’s a fact.You should talk to the company as you would like to be talked to yourself. be firm but always polite Bad customers loose it right away and they are at fault every time.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

yes Bob you are correct But it’s extra effort and it has to be perfect not a fraction of an inch out difficult with parkinsons disease for me but I could do it it would just take time also my mitre slot is like a double mitre slot so it is like a mitre slot on top of another with a narrower portion on top of a deeper one does that make sense.So you are correct it can be done.Thanks Bob.Incidently My brother and father were both Bob.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

Yes, Alistair it does make sense . Ours are made that way now and the bottom slot on the uses a stepped washer on the Osbourne guage.
I am thinking out loud but seem to remember that the euro system is about 1mm smaller than our 3/4” slot here.
You could almost narrow your bar using just a light pass with a fly cutter.
The rest of the task is pretty easy.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

No mine is about half inch and over that about three eighths of the top of my head.I will post a photo tomorrow .Though basically if you put one rectangle on top of a larger one with equal spacing either side and looked at it from an end view thats how the gauge would look like a full building brick with half a brick on top equally spacing either side this would be the end view and this top smaller bar runs the full length of the bottom bar about twelve inches long sorry I know I am muddling you.AlistairAlistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

Update….....I ordered the miter gauge on the 13th and I received it today. Free shipping and fast service, I love it. I havent had a chance to open it yet as I am at work and wont get home until tomorrow. I cant wait to play with it. I am gonna set it up for now on a Craftsman hybrid saw but it will soon be on a Unisaw that is going through a complete restoration. David Osborne….....thank you for the awesome service!!

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

I got mine yesterday and set it up today. I made a few test cuts, and it seems rock-solid. The instructions tell you how to adjust it for accuracy, but it was dead-on perfect right out of the box.

The only small issue I have so far is that if you take the fence off to put the abrasive on it, as the instructions suggest, you have to reinstall a tiny rubber o-ring that’s kind of a bear to get back into the correct position. But it’s not something you have to do on a regular basis.

I’m extremely pleased overall so far.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

Mine should be delivered next week, looking forward to putting it thru it’s paces.

-- "You get what you inspect, not what you expect"

My experience with Osbourne was excellent, I bought a EB3 ,the fence had 1/32 play when locked down, bad holes drilled in the fence, Called about the problem and 3 or 4 days later a new one was at my door, with a tag to ship the old one back free.
I can’t think of how that could be better.
As far as the EB3, I would have gone with an Incra, the new one still has some play and I find the push button then lock down is not dead on and I double check after every angle change, I guess I should with any miter . I will give it thumbs up on holding long work soild and steady and once you set an angle it stays there very well
All in all a nice miter but for a little more I would have bought the Incra 5000.

-- MARK IN BOB, So. CAL