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240 Wiring and Outlet Type - Solved

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Forum topic by BroncoBrian posted 04-05-2015 10:20 PM 1369 views 0 times favorited 57 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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BroncoBrian

435 posts in 1420 days


04-05-2015 10:20 PM

Anyone care to clarify what 240v setup is required for this great sport of woodworking?

I have easy access to the panel in my basement and can add a breaker and wiring in about 30 minutes to the garage. I will have a 20’ run max. I might need an extension cord though for the tools b/c of where the plug will be. That can be limited to 10’.

Tool 1 is my Jet 8” Helical showing up tomorrow!
Most likely, a band saw which I assume will be a 2hp Laguna in the next week or two.

So, is this a 10 g wiring job with 30 amp breaker? Standard wiring for an oven?

-- Bigfoot tries to take pictures of me


57 replies so far

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2529 days


#1 posted 04-05-2015 10:34 PM

Well if 3hp is the max you will do, generally 20A will do that would be 12Awg wiring and appropriate breaker/receptacle/plug.

Generally after you get up into the 5hp range then the 30A & 10AWG wire/breaker/plugs etc will come into play. Now let me state you won’t hurt yourself. None of the distances to the main panel will be an issue for you.

If you do the 10AWG/30A route, then you can handle the upgrade should you need to at a later point.

Me I ran my shop for years on two 20A circuits. One for my dust collector and a 2nd for all my other 220 tools.

Refer to your owners manual that will tell you what you need. 20Amps pull at 220 will do 12/2 just fine.

Again, if you run 30 it won’t hurt, but it’s a good bit more expensive. If you don’t ever anticipate upgrading it would be a waste of money.

I have some 3 phase tools that is a diff story.

Good luck.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

754 posts in 1457 days


#2 posted 04-05-2015 10:51 PM

I chose to run a 20a circuit, but ran the 10ga wire. In the future i can just swap outlets and a breaker and be good to go if I need an upgrade.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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WoodNSawdust

1417 posts in 638 days


#3 posted 04-05-2015 11:30 PM

Like Brian I ran 10-3 w/ground for all of my 220v outlets. I can insert either a 20A or 30A circuit breaker and know that the wiring will be able to handle it. The only disadvantage to 10 gauge wire is the cost.

-- "I love it when a plan comes together" John "Hannibal" Smith

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BroncoBrian

435 posts in 1420 days


#4 posted 04-05-2015 11:37 PM

I have never heard that before.

15 amp breakers use 14 gauge wire
20 amp breakers use 12 gauge wire
30 amp breakers use 10 gauge wire

I thought for something to be 220v it required more current/voltage than a standard 15 or 20 amp circuit. Otherwise, why not just put a normal plug on it?

Just b/c the draw/load does not max it out, I assume there is a reason 240v tools are not 110v.

-- Bigfoot tries to take pictures of me

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BroncoBrian

435 posts in 1420 days


#5 posted 04-05-2015 11:41 PM



Like Brian I ran 10-3 w/ground for all of my 220v outlets. I can insert either a 20A or 30A circuit breaker and know that the wiring will be able to handle it. The only disadvantage to 10 gauge wire is the cost.

- WoodNSawdust

You ran 10-3? Was that extra wire for a future second load? To confirm, the ground wire is not in the equation. 10-3 would be two hot and one shared neutral.

Makes sense to run it.

Brian – are you installing a standard 20 amp breaker or is it specifically for 220/240?

-- Bigfoot tries to take pictures of me

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MrUnix

4216 posts in 1661 days


#6 posted 04-05-2015 11:49 PM

Brian – are you installing a standard 20 amp breaker or is it specifically for 220/240?

Dude… seek out an electrician… if you are struggling on this type of question (and based on some of your other previous ones), you really should not be doing any wiring yourself. Would hate to see you fried or your house burn down.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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BroncoBrian

435 posts in 1420 days


#7 posted 04-05-2015 11:54 PM


Brian – are you installing a standard 20 amp breaker or is it specifically for 220/240?

Dude… seek out an electrician… if you are struggling on this type of question (and based on some of your other previous ones), you really should not be doing any wiring yourself. Would hate to see you fried or your house burn down.

Cheers,
Brad

Funny image. I owned a low voltage company for 15 years and have installed a lot of electrical. Just the 240v thing is making me want to get it right.

Not struggling at all. Just not sure why people think you should swap out an outlet type on a 110v circuit and call it 240. That just is not right.

Not sure what else I have been struggling on either.

- MrUnix


-- Bigfoot tries to take pictures of me

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 948 days


#8 posted 04-05-2015 11:58 PM

3 conductor isn’t really necessary. Manufacturers just put a 240v coil on the starter and pretty much eliminates the need for a neutral.

12 for anything below 3hp

10 for 3hp

8 for 5hp

You can go overboard but it’s not necessary. Especially since the run is so short. Run a 12/2 or 10/2 to a dedicated outlet or cord end for each piece and call it a day.
Not much too it really. Make sure connections are tight. That’s about the only thing that needs to be worried about aside from the wiring being too small.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

754 posts in 1457 days


#9 posted 04-06-2015 12:02 AM

220v uses 2 hots and a ground. You can run 10-2 wire which is two insulated wires and a bare ground. I ran 10-3 because that is what they had in stock the day i bought it. The third wire is unused.

The two hots each pull 110v from a different leg of your houses main panel. Therefore you get twice the voltage at your tool, which means that you can roughly do twice the work at the same amperage. Thats more of a high level way to think about it, but not exact.

The breaker you install is a double space breaker so it can tap in to both phases. Look at the breaker that controls your air conditioner to see what it looks like.

The outlet i installed is a 220V 3 prong, 20amp outlet. It is not a regular 110v household outlet.

Ask around for people who know an electrician who does side work. You can probably get it done for a very reasonable price. Thats what I did just this weekend.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View BroncoBrian's profile

BroncoBrian

435 posts in 1420 days


#10 posted 04-06-2015 01:42 AM

Brian – are you installing a standard 20 amp breaker or is it specifically for 220/240?

Dude… seek out an electrician… if you are struggling on this type of question (and based on some of your other previous ones), you really should not be doing any wiring yourself. Would hate to see you fried or your house burn down.

Cheers,
Brad

Funny image. I owned a low voltage company for 15 years and have installed a lot of electrical. Just the 240v thing is making me want to get it right.

Not struggling at all. Just not sure why people think you should swap out an outlet type on a 110v circuit and call it 240. That just is not right.

Not sure what else I have been struggling on either.

- MrUnix


-- Bigfoot tries to take pictures of me

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BroncoBrian

435 posts in 1420 days


#11 posted 04-06-2015 01:43 AM



3 conductor isn t really necessary. Manufacturers just put a 240v coil on the starter and pretty much eliminates the need for a neutral.

12 for anything below 3hp

10 for 3hp

8 for 5hp

You can go overboard but it s not necessary. Especially since the run is so short. Run a 12/2 or 10/2 to a dedicated outlet or cord end for each piece and call it a day.
Not much too it really. Make sure connections are tight. That s about the only thing that needs to be worried about aside from the wiring being too small.

- TheFridge

Thanks, makes sense. Guess I will run 10-2 so I can handle 3 HP motors in case I get a bigger BS or move up to a 3HP table saw some day.

Thanks for helping

-- Bigfoot tries to take pictures of me

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TheFridge

5765 posts in 948 days


#12 posted 04-06-2015 01:50 AM

No prob

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View BroncoBrian's profile

BroncoBrian

435 posts in 1420 days


#13 posted 04-06-2015 01:50 AM



220v uses 2 hots and a ground. You can run 10-2 wire which is two insulated wires and a bare ground. I ran 10-3 because that is what they had in stock the day i bought it. The third wire is unused.

The two hots each pull 110v from a different leg of your houses main panel. Therefore you get twice the voltage at your tool, which means that you can roughly do twice the work at the same amperage. Thats more of a high level way to think about it, but not exact.

The breaker you install is a double space breaker so it can tap in to both phases. Look at the breaker that controls your air conditioner to see what it looks like.

The outlet i installed is a 220V 3 prong, 20amp outlet. It is not a regular 110v household outlet.

Ask around for people who know an electrician who does side work. You can probably get it done for a very reasonable price. Thats what I did just this weekend.

Brian

- bbasiaga

Brian – Thanks so much for this reply. That is what I was missing, the second phase from the second space.

I can easily get the 10-2 in place and install the outlet. I will check specs on a few pieces and decide if the 20 or 30 make the most sense. I know remaining closer to the power draw will protect the tool better, but that matters a lot more for tool that are plugged in full-time which none of my tools are.

Brian

-- Bigfoot tries to take pictures of me

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TheFridge

5765 posts in 948 days


#14 posted 04-06-2015 01:56 AM

125% of FLA will give you breaker size. If it’s over 20 just skip to 30. No one uses a 25A breaker in a house that I’ve seen and I never have in 15 years.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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WhyMe

612 posts in 1023 days


#15 posted 04-06-2015 02:45 AM

Unless you’re stuck in the 1950’s, stop calling the voltage 110/220. Today it’s 120/240.

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