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craftsman 113 arbor replacement and motor rebuild.

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Forum topic by emart posted 04-03-2015 11:02 PM 3101 views 1 time favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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emart

422 posts in 2093 days


04-03-2015 11:02 PM

Topic tags/keywords: refurbishing advice question

I just purchased a craftsman 113.22401 tablesaw similar to one I already have. I intend on refurbishing it but the arbor shaft is bent. from other forums I have heard that a ridgid arbor will fit this saw does anyone know if this is true? If it isn’t possible I can just buy a salvaged arbor from ebay.
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/arbor-shaft-p-157930.html

The other problem it has is the 1/2 hp motor is messed up does anyone have a diagram or advice for rebuilding one of these motors?

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/


14 replies so far

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

1061 posts in 3078 days


#1 posted 04-04-2015 12:51 AM

The 113’s were all made by Emerson. I also have heard that the Ridgid arbors would fit the old Craftsman 113’s. This makes sense since some of the Ridgid table saws were made by Emerson too. (specifically, the 3650, for one).

The problem I have with giving an unqualified yes is that I have also read that the arbor was changed during the 50 year run for Sears. I have read threads at OWWM (sorry, didn’t bookmark any specific threads when I ran across them) about people who changed bearings in their 113 table saws and found they needed a different bearing size than that suggested by OWWM. A search at the OWWM threads (now vintagemachinery.org) might shed more light on this. For $18 I would give the Ridgid arbor a shot.

As for the motor – are you sure it is only 1/2 HP? Most of the 113’s I have seen had a 1 HP or a 1 1/2 HP motor. And what do you mean by “messed up”? That’s not very descriptive of the problem. My experience has been that motors are rugged beasts, at least the induction motors used on that vintage saw. They are very tough to kill completely. I have fixed a few of them – problems ranged from bad centrifugal switches to bad starting caps to a poor connection from the wiring block to the motor windings – but I have yet to run into a motor that actually needed rewinding. Post a better description of the motor problem.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

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emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#2 posted 04-04-2015 01:00 AM

I havent tested it yet because the guy i bought it from said the casing would electrocute you. it is indeed a 1/2 hp motor likely salvaged from another machine. from the outside it looks pretty ratty and at least one wire was fixed with tin foil. I may or may not try to fix that as I have a 3/4hp dayton kicking around or I might try to get a good deal on a one hp motor

and yeah worst case I can take the replacement arbor to a friends house and machine it to fit using his metal lathe.

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3668 posts in 1185 days


#3 posted 04-04-2015 02:23 AM

No info on the arbor, but a motor that would electrocute and has wires with foil on them would qualify as a lost cause. Decent 1hp motors can be had in my area usually for ~$70 or less, there’s always a few people who think their worn out 3ph motors are worth more than the scrap value they’re actually worth, but those are easy enough to overlook.

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emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#4 posted 04-04-2015 03:12 AM

yeah I never understood that. most inane ad I saw was someone selling the gold version of this saw for $800. It’s a nice machone but it isnt worth even 1/4 of that.

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

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MrUnix

4230 posts in 1664 days


#5 posted 04-04-2015 04:04 AM

No info on the arbor, but a motor that would electrocute and has wires with foil on them would qualify as a lost cause.

Lost cause?!? Hardly… just sounds like a bad wiring job and should be a cheap (as in zero dollars) and easy fix.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

1061 posts in 3078 days


#6 posted 04-04-2015 07:51 AM

Well, that is a bit different. I agree with MrUnix – this might just be a case of hack wiring and that’s worth checking. Wiring fixed with tin foil? Yecch!

But this is also a common failure in motors. The motor wiring is usually varnished copper wire wound around slots in the motor stator, which is steel and connected to the motor housing, i.e. ground. If vibration or damage breaks the varnish insulation on these wires then you can end up with line voltage or some percentage of line voltage on the motor housing. Then it is indeed a safety hazard. You might not even be able to measure the fault with an ohmeter – it might not show except under high-voltage.

I always ground the motor housing when wiring them. In some cases, I had to drill and tap an extra screw hole to connect a ground wire to the housing. When the housing is properly grounded a fault like this will either trip the circuit breaker (for a low resistance fault) or will trip the GFI (for a high resistance fault).

My comment about that motor seeming small was predicated on throwing a 10” blade. My 113 and all of the 113’s I have seen throw a 10” blade. When I looked up the documentation for your saw, though (find it here ), it claims that it is only an 8” saw! And it recommends a 1/2 HP or 3/4 HP motor. But it shows a 5/8” arbor which is consistent with my 113 and the trunnion looks very similar to my 113’s so there is still a good possibility that the Ridgid arbor will work with it.

Live and learn – I didn’t know Emerson made an 8” version of this saw. Are you actually limited to 8” blades or is there enough room to throw a 10” blade?

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View emart's profile

emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#7 posted 04-04-2015 09:33 AM

It can hold a 10” blade but from what I have read you need more hp to run that effectively so I think i will throw my 3/4hp dayton on it and save myself the headache of diagnosing this motor. I can always fix it later and use it for some other machine that comes my way. the saw looks like a smaller version of my 10” 113 saw though they use the same fence if you add the front table extension to it. It’s kind of terrifying to think that they sold such a tiny machine. For those that are wondering i originally bought this so i could scavenge some spare parts for my mobile saw but since it is smaller only some of the accessories will work. Now I intend to rebuild the saw and sell it so someone else can enjoy it.

Feel free to check my blog to see what I have done with my other saw:

http://lumberjocks.com/emart/blog/36831

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

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emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#8 posted 04-08-2015 12:08 AM

I went ahead and ordered the new arbor it will be here on friday I will let you folks know how it turns out. I am also going to install the dayton motor since the original 1/2 hp is just too puny. I also pulled the arbor out and cleaned the arbor housing so far so good the machining still looks good. The arbor likely broke in half at some point and somebody welded it back together.

anyways I am sure some of you are dying for photos so here it is:

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

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emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#9 posted 04-11-2015 02:28 AM

The arbor came in and it is slightly different from the original one. it is about 1/2 an inch shorter than the original and it uses a different key for the pulley and the bearing size is an oddball one. the spots where the bearings go are 1 millimeter larger in diameter than the original bearings and I was unable to get any that matched this arbor at my local bearing shop. I basically have two options either order some bearings that are made with the correct ID and OD online or machine the arbor a bit so that standard bearings will fit.

So just to confirm this rumour the ridgid arbor will work but it takes some effort to make this repair. if you buy this arbor buy the nut that goes with it since it is an oddball size that a local specialty store may not have. the bearings are 35mm OD and 16mm ID and I would not buy the suggested bearings because they may not fit the original arbor housing instead go to a bearing shop and have the original ones measured to ensure a good fit.

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4230 posts in 1664 days


#10 posted 04-11-2015 03:33 AM

Are you sure you got the correct arbor? The bearings for the 3650 arbor shaft (Part #TH100005), as per the Ridgid parts diagram (Bearing, part number 080009006137) shows it to be a pretty plain vanilla sealed 6202 which has a 15mm bore and 35mm OD. A search for that part number turns up nothing but standard sealed 6202’s (6202-2RS). You could just get the 6202-16 bearings (16mm bore), but I’d verify you got the right part first!

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View emart's profile

emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#11 posted 04-11-2015 04:07 AM

I am pretty sure it is the correct arbor it looks just like the one listed. I will track down the packaging and see for sure. the arbor was measured at the bearing shop with a dial caliper and it is definitely larger in diameter because the bearings from the old arbor do not fit also i heave read about other people having trouble with the bearings from them because the tolerances were either too tight or too loose

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

View toolie's profile

toolie

2024 posts in 2093 days


#12 posted 04-11-2015 10:53 AM

Hopefully, someone pointed out that the 3650 and 3660 were not manufactured by Emerson. They were made by one world technology (TTI). However, the ridgid 2412, 2424, &3612 were all made by Emerson. Parts from these saws might not be plug and play with the older c-man saws.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View emart's profile

emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#13 posted 04-14-2015 09:37 PM

well aside from the problem getting bearings the arbor shaft i bought will fit just fine there is enough play in the motor mount to make up for it being shorter than the original one. the only thing you have to do is make sure to buy the arbor nut that goes with it when you order the shaft that way you arent having to pay two shipping bills. Then you buy some 16mm by 35mm bearings. The other issue is you have to use a different shaft key because this uses a different keyway to attach a pulley but that can easily be made from some scrap metal

Now I am just waiting to take the replacement arbor to my friends machine shop so I can turn the arbor down a bit so it will fit standard bearings. for the record 6202 bearings also also come in 16 mm bore but they are a pain to find and there isn’t much selection so I’m machining the arbor so I can get locally sourced bearings

I have also started making a new stand for this saw. I swiped the cabinet it came with to use on another machine in my shop

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

View emart's profile

emart

422 posts in 2093 days


#14 posted 04-25-2015 02:36 AM



Are you sure you got the correct arbor? The bearings for the 3650 arbor shaft (Part #TH100005), as per the Ridgid parts diagram (Bearing, part number 080009006137) shows it to be a pretty plain vanilla sealed 6202 which has a 15mm bore and 35mm OD. A search for that part number turns up nothing but standard sealed 6202 s (6202-2RS). You could just get the 6202-16 bearings (16mm bore), but I d verify you got the right part first!

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Turns out you were right it is a 15mm bore on the bearing. the saw uses 15×35 7202 bearings. they are open on one side so you can grease them periodically through a grease fitting on the saw. I managed to get one bearing installed on the arbor but bent the second one so i will head to the bearing shop on monday and see if they can press the second one in place.

-- tools are only as good as the hands that hold them https://www.custommade.com/by/emeraldcrafts/

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