Check your Square for Square!

Hey Chris
the way to check a square for square is to hold it on a straight edge draw a line flip it over and see if it’s on the line. If not it’s not square. You can adjust a framing square by putting some small punches in ether the top or bottom of the corner of the square to bring it back in to square. Even new framing square are often out of squareso check them before using them.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop, custom furniture ,maker, woodworking school, http://www.heirloomwoodshop.com/

ditto with jim ,
for my miter square in the table saw ,
i just flip it over in the slot and run it up against the rail for the fence and tightent it when i need 90’

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

Chris,

Avoid this problem completely by NOT using a square to square your miter guage. A more accurate and faster way to square your miter guage is by using a dial indicator. Let me repeat, FASTER and MORE accurate.

See here:
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm
no affiliation yada yada yada.

Also see here, except the sled is your miter guage (cheaper method)
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_Sled_Fence.htm

With a square you need to squint for light between the miter guage and the square (or use feeler guages), these methods remove that error completely.

Also by using your fence as the reference to square your miter guage, any error in your fence is transferred to your miter guage. Not a good way to do it.

-- Brian http://www.garagewoodworks.com

I’ve had problems squaring it up Davids way, you have to make sure the slots on your table top are absolutly parallel with the blade.

-- I didn't go to college, I was too busy learning stuff - Ted Nugent

Tomakazi, It seems to me that since you are pushing through the blade in a straight line, then you would want you work piece (and miter gauge) to be a perfect 90* to the direction of travel. If your blade to slot is not parallel then the blade would just take a wider kerf, but still deliver a perfect 90. If you square to the blade, and the slot (direction of travel) is off from parallel, then the cut will be off that amount. I haven’t had any luck with David’s way either, but I think it is the accuracy of the method not the idea. Therefor, I got my slot and blade as close as possible and go off the blade like everyone else.

-- Jimmy, Oklahoma "It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear!"

I see what you’re saying. This problem I had was a long time ago on tablesaws other than my own. I didn’t really think it through. I like to check my square for square and after everything is all squared up I do a test cut and check it with the square.

-- I didn't go to college, I was too busy learning stuff - Ted Nugent

That is my normal procedure. I set it for square then go from there with test cuts on wide stock (easier to see the error). Still off sometimes, but I think it has to do with operator error lol.

-- Jimmy, Oklahoma "It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear!"

I think that the miter gauge fence should be set at 90° to the miter gauge bar (or the miter slot)...

I’m using the method like on the pics but, using the “Wixey Digital angle gauge” would make it very accurately…http://www.wixey.com/anglegauge/index.html

Regards
niki

Johnny-by using a dial indicator, no test cuts are required. I set to 90.0 and I know with certainty that I am at 90.0

Referencing your miter guage to 90 using your blade or fence is the wrong way to do this guys. ANY error off square in your blade or fence is transferred to your miter guage. The method(s) I gave completely eliminate this potential error. Also, by using a square to align you must either look for light inbetween the guage and the square or use feeler guages. All you need is a dial indicator and magnetic base and a good quality square (or buy a TS aligner Jr).

-- Brian http://www.garagewoodworks.com

Brian, On a table saw, everything has to align to the miter slot. There is no dispute there, as it is the only thing that doesn’t move. Regardless of whose method, the original post still stands, because your method is botched without a square square. And so is everyone elses. So dont forget to check your squares everyone.

-- Jimmy, Oklahoma "It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear!"

Jimmy- the OP was using a square to align his miter guage by using the table saw fence as a reference (not a good idea even with a good square).
Yes, everything has to align to the miter slot. But, when squaring a miter guage, what do you reference the square off of? The blade? The fence? How do you know they are square? My method (actually not mine) doesn’t require these references, therefore no added error.
Yes, you need a square that is actually square. My point is that the alignment procedure is also critical (asuming you have a good square). IMHO the best technique (fastest and most accurate) utilizes a dial indicator. No test cuts required.

-- Brian http://www.garagewoodworks.com

Hey Guys
I’m sorry but this seems like and over kill. Cut a board with your miter square check it for square if it’s off adjust until square. a whole 30 seconds your done.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop, custom furniture ,maker, woodworking school, http://www.heirloomwoodshop.com/

It might seem like overkill until you try it. I don’t need to mess with test cuts. It takes five minutes to square it with the indicator. I like the zen like feeling, knowing that my miter guage is dead-on with no test cuts to confirm it.
After you make a test cut, how do you check it for square? Hold a square upto it and look for light in between the square and the stock or use feeler guages? This to me seems slow and inaccurate.

-- Brian http://www.garagewoodworks.com

I use a dial indictor for a lot of things as it is a very precise tool. I guess it really comes down to how square is square. A good quality machinest square only rates to .0005”. But wait, can’t wood move that much just breathing on it? For the price, I just don’t see the benifit out weighs it. I used a home made jig and dial indicator when I set up my saw. Checked blade to slot and fence to slot. Set to +/- .001 If you referance off the blade and make a couple of test cuts like Jim says then you are done. And a whole lot cheaper since you need the square anyway. It is something I had to get away from since I worked with metal for years before wood. Less measureing and more feeling. I also don’t look for light I feel for rock in the square. I find my fingers to be much more preceptive than my eyes.

-- Jimmy, Oklahoma "It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear!"

Hey Guys
We all do things are own way . I actually use a Osborne miter its very accurate. but before i own it i made a few hundred things with a standard machinest square to check my cut. Not matter what I make i like to check it for square so I don’t have problems that chris had.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop, custom furniture ,maker, woodworking school, http://www.heirloomwoodshop.com/

Jimmy-Sure wood can move, we have no control here. Why not eliminate any error where we have control over? Using your rationale, why make test cuts at all? Why not just eye-ball your miter guage for square? :^) I think it is a good idea to eliminate any error we have control over. It’s actually faster using the indicator, precision just comes along for the ride. You could (using my method) have your guage aligned to 90 before most have a chance to re-align after making their first test cut.

-- Brian http://www.garagewoodworks.com

Hey group
we should all check square we like and there are many ways to do many things.
In teaching woodworking I tell my students the way I do a certain operation and encourage them to find what works for them. I never said anyone’s approach was wrong and I certainly don’t do a test cut every time I use my table saw that would be ridiculous. If I’m going to insist my way is best I would say everyone should spend the $100 plus for a Osborne miter gauge for there saw just because thats the way I do it.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop, custom furniture ,maker, woodworking school, http://www.heirloomwoodshop.com/

I also tend to like my expensive wood too much to go without the test cut. How do you check for square? Just trust it? I think your TS Jr is great, just can’t seem to justify the cost. I wasn’t saying we shouldn’t eliminate error where possible, but both ways eliminate the error and I would rather use up a little piece of scrap every now and then and have the money to spend on wood. Sorry for the thread stealing Christopher. I just feel your pain when one of my percision tools turns out not to be so precise. Guess we should always cut once and measure three times (once after the cut). Had the same thing happen to an old starret combo I have.

-- Jimmy, Oklahoma "It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear!"

I was considering making myself a dedicated 90 gauge by tack welding a miter gauge at exactly 90. Then I could have a gauge that is adjustible and a gauge that I know is at 90, or, I could build a miter sled, but I really don’t have much extra room in my shop for another frakkin jig.

-- "That Government is Best that Governs The Least."-Jefferson