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Forum topic by daddywoofdawg posted 03-31-2015 01:00 PM 1072 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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daddywoofdawg

1010 posts in 1040 days


03-31-2015 01:00 PM

Topic tags/keywords: sharpening chisel plane

I have a sharpening question,I use the scary sharp method,can’t afford 100+ for stones;I have seen alot of videos and they all talk about getting a burr on the backside.I have felt things that have gotten a burr, so I think I know what they feel like;but I’m not getting a burr and the edge after sharping up to 1200 grit doesn’t slice paper.I’mI not pressing hard enough during sharpening or long enough on the grits.or is this only for the best of sharpeners that get that?I’m using a knock off veritas jig.25 + micro for plane irons and 30 for chisels.


21 replies so far

View sikrap's profile

sikrap

1121 posts in 2824 days


#1 posted 03-31-2015 01:20 PM

it sounds like you’re not staying on any grit long enough to develop a burr. What grit do you start with and what grits do you go through to get to 1200? Have you flattened/polished the back of the iron? I would also go to 2000 grit in the wet/dry paper. I’d start at 220 and go 220, 400, 800, 1200, 1500, 2000. Good Luck!!

-- Dave, Colonie, NY

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bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2532 days


#2 posted 03-31-2015 01:22 PM

First question what are you using as your flat surface You have to get those backs flat first. I used the sc method for a long time. I used auto body wet/dry paper and a piece of granite I got for 25 bucks. I would spritz the stone with water with a drop of dawn in it(bottle). That hold the paper down and another spritz to wet paper on top. Worked fine. Should shave hair on your arm. I used jig to hold blade at right angle and put secondary bevel. I’d be suspicious that your backs are not totally flat. You will feel a tad bit of a burr and a quick couple passes of the back on that final grit should knock it right off and you’re good to go.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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waho6o9

7174 posts in 2042 days


#3 posted 03-31-2015 01:34 PM

Adhere some leather on a flat piece of plywood and load it up
with some green honing compound and strop a surgical edge.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32984&cat=1,43072

Cuts quickly but leaves a mirror finish with a light wax film. The average size of scratch pattern it leaves behind is 0.5 microns or .00002 inches. Ideal for carving tools and firmer gouges, it can be used for final honing of almost any tool. Used with a felt wheel or leather belt for power honing or with a leather strop for hand honing.

Keep at it DWDawg you’ll get there.

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2281 posts in 1835 days


#4 posted 03-31-2015 01:43 PM

I use the scary sharp method, using the grits Dave mentioned, on a couple granite tiles from HD, followed by leather strop. I agree it sounds like you’re not completing one grit before moving on. I like to color the bevel (or back, when flattening) with a sharpie. Once I see all of the sharpie’s been sanded off, I do another dozen or so swipes before moving on to the next grit, for good measure. Once I get to the higher grits, I will pull the blade only, and that usually results in the burr, and a mirror finish.

I don’t think more pressure is the answer. Granted, I have a low-end guide, but applying more pressure tends to result in things flexing, distorting, or one side being pressured more, and the results suffer.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

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Mykos

102 posts in 1260 days


#5 posted 03-31-2015 02:52 PM

You’re either not starting coarse enough, or not staying long enough on each grit. It’s essential that you feel the burr on the backside before moving to the next grit size. That goes for any sharpening media. The burr is telling you that you’ve gotten the bevel right to a near zero radius at the edge.

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bondogaposis

4034 posts in 1816 days


#6 posted 03-31-2015 02:59 PM

I usually spend the most amount of time on the coarsest grit. Once you get the burr on that, then the progression through the finer grits goes pretty fast.

-- Bondo Gaposis

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JayT

4783 posts in 1676 days


#7 posted 03-31-2015 03:11 PM



I usually spend the most amount of time on the coarsest grit. Once you get the burr on that, then the progression through the finer grits goes pretty fast.

- bondogaposis

Good advice. As long as you don’t change the angle, this works well. I also used a sharpie early on, like Ed mentions, to be sure I was getting to the very edge. Once you get a good system down that works consistently, then the Sharpie isn’t necessary.

1200 is borderline fine enough to finish with (and probably on the wrong side of the border). Adding a strop or going up to at least 1500 grit will be necessary to get that razor sharp edge, in my experience. Strops are handy and easier to use, so would be my recommendation.

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

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ElChe

630 posts in 802 days


#8 posted 03-31-2015 05:35 PM

I’ve sharpened with sandpaper and also waterstones. I find with sandpaper I have to put a bit more pressure to get it to work compared to the relatively soft Norton waterstones. But I do get a nice burr with sandpaper on all grits that I use especially on the coarser grits. The last inch or so of the non-beveled side of a chisel needs to be flat or you won’t get good results because your edge is defined by the connection between the bevel side and the flat side. I also use wet/dry sandpaper because I just didn’t like the feel of dry sandpaper. On finger grits the burr can be difficult to detect but you can feel it with a fingernail catching just a bit. Spend some time on each grit. I like the scratch patterns of each progressive grit to get rid of the scratch pattern of the coarser grit if that makes sense. I’m working on making a strop to get that shiny surgical look, which is unnecessary but, well, I’m a hobbyist and I like to see shiny things. ;)

-- Tom - Measure twice cut once. Then measure again. Curse. Fudge.

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Rick M

7923 posts in 1845 days


#9 posted 03-31-2015 06:16 PM

Sharpen with the first grit. Each grit after is removing marks from the previous grit and making the edge finer (sharper). But if you don’t have an edge after the first grit, the rest will be wasting time.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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waho6o9

7174 posts in 2042 days


#10 posted 03-31-2015 06:38 PM

View daddywoofdawg's profile

daddywoofdawg

1010 posts in 1040 days


#11 posted 03-31-2015 06:43 PM


it sounds like you re not staying on any grit long enough to develop a burr. What grit do you start with and what grits do you go through to get to 1200? Have you flattened/polished the back of the iron? I would also go to 2000 grit in the wet/dry paper. I d start at 220 and go 220, 400, 800, 1200, 1500, 2000. Good Luck!!

- sikrap


180(when needed),220,320,400,600(I think),800,1200
It sounds like I need to spend more time on each grit.I’m going to try to fine a granite tile next time I’min town,should I get a granite tile or piece of glass or does it matter?I’m using MDF at the moment seems flat straight edge says it is.

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

3599 posts in 1952 days


#12 posted 03-31-2015 07:00 PM

Interesting, I have to wonder how those old Stanley and Sargent planes have a concave on the backside.

My grandfather and dad never bothered with going from 180 to 2000 grit, they used what they had at hand, made beautiful craftsman style cabinets, (by hand), and could do it nearly fast enough to c=keep up with the molding machine.

I use to use an oil stone on the planes and a couple of water stones and then an oil stone on the chisels. They cut just fine, all of them would slice paper with no problem.

I am trying to logically figure out where this idea that the plane needed to be a mirror polish and razor sharp came from. The closer you get to razor sharp, the faster it will break off the cutting edge of the blade. That is why surgeons use throw away blades.

Someone please explain?

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2281 posts in 1835 days


#13 posted 03-31-2015 07:09 PM



I m going to try to fine a granite tile next time I min town,should I get a granite tile or piece of glass or does it matter?I m using MDF at the moment seems flat straight edge says it is.

- daddywoofdawg

I used MDF at first, too. But, after using wet/dry paper for a while, it got funky from the water, and it’s harder to clean any adhesive (if you use any) off.

I bought 3 black 12×12 inch granite tiles from the flooring section at Home Depot. I think I paid around $4 apiece. Each piece is big enough for two strips of paper, so I can keep 400, 600, 800, 1200, 1500, 2000 on them. That way, I can just grab the tile and touch up an edge real quick. If I get anything that needs more care below 400, which almost never happens since I don’t get new/used tools much, I can swap them out.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

View JayT's profile

JayT

4783 posts in 1676 days


#14 posted 03-31-2015 07:14 PM

I am trying to logically figure out where this idea that the plane needed to be a mirror polish and razor sharp came from. The closer you get to razor sharp, the faster it will break off the cutting edge of the blade. That is why surgeons use throw away blades.

Someone please explain?

- Dallas

Dallas, for me a lot depends on the species and the plane. That level of sharp is pretty much reserved for my smoothing planes. Even then, I can plane pine, walnut, cherry, poplar or other softer woods with a less than razor sharp iron and get pretty good results. Even harder woods such as oak, ash or maple aren’t a big issue if they are straight grained and you go with the grain. Do the same with figured wood like curly maple or something with interlocked grain, such as elm or an exotic and you are asking for tearout. At least, that has been my experience.

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

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upchuck

540 posts in 1130 days


#15 posted 03-31-2015 10:04 PM

I agree with RickM. Continue with what ever grit you start with (the coarsest one) until you get a burr all along the edge. The burr along the whole edge tells you that both surfaces (the bevel and the flat back) meet at every point. If you stop before you get the burr then you are increasing the work to be done. After you have the burr finer grits just refine the edge. I call this honing and polishing. To what degree you hone and polish is up to you.
But without the burr you are just making a dull edge shiny.

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