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Forum topic by SlimPickins posted 03-31-2015 12:55 AM 1462 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


03-31-2015 12:55 AM

I just bought a used log dolly from a woman whose family is getting out of the business of logging.

It’s very heavy-duty, with a good frame, it would probably be rated at about 2000 lbs., so I won’t have a problem toting some nice 21” diameter wet oaks that are 6’ long, provided that the axle is ok. But that is where I have to hesitate.

Just curious if any of these dollies ever have hollow axles? The axle is a hollow tube? I have axles in my house but they are all solid steel.

Will the hollow axle hold up to anything over a few hundred pounds or do they make hollow axles that are strong enough? I haven’t taken the dolly apart yet (it needs some welds) but I have a job to do tomorrow – I was hoping to cut some logs up with my chain saw and wheel them about 200 yards on the dolly. I guess I’m prepared for the worst.

I was hoping I didn’t have to use my new axles on this dolly but I guess if I have to I’ll do it (I think I have two sizes of axle, one is 3/4” and should fit. I hope the dolly’s axle is not 1”, it doesn’t look like it is.

Just curious about that axle – they are the usual 16” x whatever width (like 6 or 8”) turf-saver golf cart wheels.

The woman who sold it said that it was a “Custom” dolly.

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood


17 replies so far

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

4036 posts in 1818 days


#1 posted 03-31-2015 01:38 AM

According to my calculation a green oak log of that size should weigh 880 lbs. Give or take a few pounds depending on whether the 21” diameter is the small end or big end.

(21/2) = 10.5 r, r sq =110.25 x pi = 346.36×72” = 24937.9 cu in / 1728 cu in = 14.4 cu ft x 61 lbs/ cuft = 880.3 lbs

I obtained the figure of 61 lbs/ cu ft for green red oak from a website called the Engineering Toolbox.

-- Bondo Gaposis

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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


#2 posted 03-31-2015 01:57 AM

Correct, in fact, I have a piece of green white oak that is 68 lbs./cu. ft. so the red oak would tend to be a bit lighter – good job on the math and the knowledge of the taper which helps!

The point of my post wasn’t how heavy are the logs are – I know about how heavy they are. I was wondering if I got bamboozled on my axle – I’ve just never seen a dolly with a hollow axle before. Just curious if anyone knows of dollies with hollow axles – some might think it makes it less brittle or was this really home-made and I need to put a new axle on after I break the one I have. Tomorrow I will start out with some nice 4 foot logs that only weigh a few hundred pounds or so then work my way up in weight. If I break the axle I will have to put a new one on, that’s all.

Thanks.

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood

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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


#3 posted 03-31-2015 12:29 PM

Ok, I just went out and measured the dolly. It has an axle made of 27” long, 1” OD pipe with an internal diameter ID of 3/4”, so the tube has 1/8” wall thickness. By a miracle, I just happen to have a 3/4” diameter steel axle that is exactly 27” long. The only bugaboo will be drilling a hole for the cotter pin. The guy must have made the system with a cotter pin on one end and a sort of cuff on the other. I will NOT have to take the whole thing apart – just pull the cotter pin, grease the axle and pray it will stuff down the 3/4” hole. Then drill through the axle for the cotter pin. Sounds like a pretty easy job.

I checked the logs – the smallest one is 17” in diameter and it goes up to 30”in daimeter. Look like I may have to start with a circular saw and quarter saw. It will be hard for me to chainsaw the big ones, but the small ones I might be able to get some 6’ long logs I can use. It’s hard to cut 30” logs with a 20” chainsaw, without putting a longer chain/blade on.

So it will be fun to get the log dolly strengthened but no so much fun cutting the logs.

Here’s a table I put together for white oak for this project – I can scale down to red oak – not much difference. A 6” log is only 13.25 lbs. per lineal foot, but it goes up as the square for the bigger ones
and by 12”, we’re already at 53.38 lbs. Yep, those are heavy logs out there!

Common weights of green white oak in various cylinder sizes …
Green white oak = 68 lbs./cu. ft

1’ length of 12” diameter log = .785 * 68 = 53.38 lbs.

Diameter of log length

6” 1’, 2’, 3’, 4’, 5’, 6’, 7’, 8’, 9’, 10’, 11’, 12’
13.25lbs., 26.5 lbs.,,,, 79.5 lbs.,,,, 132.5 lbs.,, 159 lbs.
7”
8” 1’, 2’, 3’, 4’, 5’, 6’, 7’, 8’, 9’, 10’, 11’, 12’
24 lbs., 48 lbs.,,,,144 lbs.,,,, 240 lbs.,, 288 lbs.
10”
37 lbs., 74 lbs.,,,, 221 lbs.,,,, 370 lbs.,, 444 lbs.
12” 1’, 2’, 3’, 4’, 5’, 6’, 7’, 8’, 9’, 10’, 11’, 12’
53 lbs., 107 lbs.,,,,318 lbs.,,,, 534 lbs.,, 641 lbs.
15” 1’, 2’, 3’, 4’, 5’, 6’, 7’, 8’, 9’, 10’, 11’, 12’
83 lbs., 166 lbs.,,,, 497 lbs.,,,, 830 lbs.,, 994 lbs.
18” 1’, 2’, 3’, 4’, 5’, 6’, 7’, 8’, 9’, 10’, 11’, 12’
120.1 lbs., 240 lbs.,,,,721 lbs.,,,, 1201 lbs.,, 1440 lbs.
21” 1’, 2’, 3’, 4’, 5’, 6’, 7’, 8’, 9’, 10’, 11’, 12’
162 lbs., 325 lbs.,,,, 974 lbs.,,,, 1620 lbs.,,1950 lbs.
24” 1’, 2’, 3’, 4’, 5’, 6’, 7’, 8’, 9’, 10’, 11’, 12’
212 lbs., 424 lbs.,,,, 1272 lbs.,,,, 2120 lbs.,, 2544 lbs.

Water is 62.4 lbs./cu. ft.

Sorry, I should have put this in a spreadsheet – it would look a lot nicer – one formula, copy and paste
and you’re done!

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

14940 posts in 2157 days


#4 posted 04-01-2015 12:37 AM

The solid axle would give me more peace of mind. I too have to move a lot of BIG logs and I’m wondering how you get logs onto your log dolly? Also, I would have concerns about those tires/wheels holding up a big log. The whole rig just looks a little too ‘lightweight’ from here.

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


#5 posted 04-01-2015 03:21 PM


The solid axle would give me more peace of mind. I too have to move a lot of BIG logs and I m wondering how you get logs onto your log dolly? Also, I would have concerns about those tires/wheels holding up a big log. The whole rig just looks a little too lightweight from here.

- gfadvm

It’s funny – the issue of hollow vs. solid is similar to the issue of using pine vs. oak. Pine has pretty nice bending modulus, only sliightly less than oak, perhaps not that much less modulus of elasticity or whatever.

So here we are with a hollow tube that is stronger because they harden it somehow I think. And it doesn’t transmit it’s internal stress as much throughout the material, so the tendency to crack is in a narrow part of the material. The solid axle is more like a piece of mahogany – hard but brittle.

But that said, I’m still gonna stuff that 3/4” pipe down the middle – I don’t buy any of what I just said when it comes to the overall strength.

By the way, when they speak of axle strength, they also mean under torque loads – from engines. This dolly will not have much torgue. It just needs strength. I think the thick axle down the middle will make it stronger not weaker.

Thicker – stronger for the most part in life.

My only problem is I had to hammer-drill a log to unfreeze it yesterday so I can open my garage door all the way, but the log still is frozen to the ground even though it’s April 1st! One more day and it will unstick I think.

At least I took a torch to my garage screws and adjusted the doors so they’ll slide nice and easy this year.

But the giant logs I’m moving were left out all winter. The quality of the wood will be less – that freezing inside – oak does not respond well to freezing – except if you want to make oak baskets or mulch or something.

How to move the logs onto the dolly? Pretty much the same way I get logs up a hill – I rotate it back and forth using a little bump as a fulcrum and hope it doesn’t get out of control and crush me.

LOL

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood

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SirIrb

1239 posts in 697 days


#6 posted 04-01-2015 03:46 PM

But, how much was the cat?

-- Don't blame me, I voted for no one.

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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


#7 posted 04-01-2015 05:07 PM



But, how much was the cat?

- SirIrb

The cats cost a small fortune by the time I add up all the cans and bags of catfood! When I put 30 plates worth of food in the garage so I can take off for a few weeks, they eat all the food in 3 days!

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood

View davidcarp's profile

davidcarp

15 posts in 728 days


#8 posted 04-01-2015 05:22 PM

Are you asking if you log dolly axle will fail? Or are you asking if a hollow axle will fail?

My first thought would be to ask the people that you bought it from what size logs they have moved and extrapolate from there.

If it matters, a hollow tube in torsion will sustain the same applied torque as a solid tube. In bending; a hollow tube with a wall thickness, say similar to a shedule 40 steel pipe, will have a moment of inetial slightly less than a hollow tube, and as a result will have slightly less strength in bending. What might be the failure mechanism for a heavily loaded hollow axel would be a localized buckling of the tube at the bearing point. ie Wider wheel bearings would be better than narrow.

The calc for an axle in bending or torsion is pretty easy, the calc for localized buckling not so easy.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2326 posts in 1763 days


#9 posted 04-01-2015 05:57 PM

I have to think those axles will bear up to more weight than a person can move on that thing.

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

3599 posts in 1954 days


#10 posted 04-01-2015 06:16 PM

At the worst, put a piece of mild steel angle iron under the axle on the inside of the frame rails. You could use 4 u-bolts, two at the outside end of the angle iron and 2 about 4” apart near the center of the axle, however I would prefer to stitch weld along the axle and the angle iron, quenching with oil as you go.

Remember, cast differential housings are nothing but hollow tubes. and I use to have an old CJ2 Jeep that I made a temporary repair on with u-bolts and a piece of 2” angle iron. I was going to change the axle when I got home, but got busy driving that POS Jeep to work all winter in Duluth and Mpls.

I sold that jeep for $1500 more than I bought it for and the only upgrade was a fuel filter and the angle iron.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


#11 posted 04-01-2015 07:48 PM

I have a feeling there will be “localized buckling” of my knees and legs before the axle gives way. My guess is the people who had that log dolly never carried a single log with it as they always turned all the wood into mulch.

Since I’m going to take the thing apart and inspect it for rust, shine it up a little, I might look into a brand new axle. I can stuff my steel pipe in there anyway. I’m absolutely sure that a 600 lb. log would not break the axle – hollow or not. I doubt I’ll carry much over that until I successfuly carry a bunch of little ones – then I get to blow the axle to smitherines with a giant log – and then buy a new axle. I think it would be fun to break the axle, then weigh the log and see what it took to break it. But I have to work my way up in small bits so I know the exact breaking weight of the axle. Then I can publish my work in a forum and get famous!

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3668 posts in 1187 days


#12 posted 04-01-2015 07:58 PM

Assuming it’s just 1” steel pipe (same as you can get from any home center) with a modulus of elasticity of 29Msi it should handle more than any normal human would care to put on the dolly and do so for quite some time. I’ve moved some logs over 500lbs. on my harbor freight hand truck rated at 500lbs. and the tires on any non hard surface will provide enough resistance to make it very difficult to move. The tires look very similar to those on your dolly. If I make one it will be a wagon style with four tires and an arch that goes over the log. These design features coupled with tongs and a winch to life the log should not only be much easier for me alone, but quite a bit safer too.

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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


#13 posted 04-11-2015 05:58 PM

Well, I fit my 27” axle to the existing 26” or so axle, marked it for the cotter pin, then drilled the hole. I expected to need a carbide bit as I’ve drilled angle iron before with a non-carbide and it’s tough going. But this steel axle was drillable with a non-carbide bit. I made it through, then I stuffed the axle down and put the cotter pin in, after a slight tap with a hammer against a crow-bar since my hole was not 100% perfectly aligned and not very big.

Then today I took my new Poulan Pro out and made 4 cuts, each one only 4’ long but about 17” – 19” in diameter. So I sort of started off easy to get my mind thinking again. I had to use a wedge cut for relief on two of the cuts but the cutting went well. I even stood on top for one cut – dangerous but I used good sense and took care not to trip. So I now have 4 very heavy red oak logs that I want to cut into boards for a gate. As I get more nerve, I will take my Beam-machine down and start making some nice squared-off wood. Today was more or less just a warmup. A neighbor has now gotten her come-along ready to go so next time I go up the hill, we will have that. It’s extremely difficult yet to get up the hill with the dolly – so I had to muscle and roll and ziig-zag the logs up the hill. The 4th log is so heavy, I have not been able to get it upright onto the dolly – which is the best way. I will have to wait until Monday – either horizontal or upright – I used my old hiking boots from my college days – they always give me a blister. I have other nice boots – I just didn’t bother wearing them. So I have a blister to let heal a day or two before I get back to this.

But all in all, a good day. I hope to get some longer planks with my beam machine.

I’‘ve done a lot with electric chainsaws over the years, but this is the first gas work since I did it with my father as a young man. That’s a long time ago!

But I got right back into all the tricks I used to use to get that log to fall the right way. You have to notch it sometimes – just like taking a tree down – a lot safer that way!

Dolly’s fine so far. It’s best to push the dolly forwards – just don’t go forwards up a hill unless you’re sure you won’t kill yourself. The come-along will help next I go out!

So now I’m building another dolly – waiting on an axle for that one. The red log dolly is real nice but it’s honestly very heavy – it’s even hard just to push it up a hill. But that’s what I like about it! The neighbors are impressed with the dolly.

As I finished up, a bald eagle flew over and sat and watched – how about that?

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood

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SCOTSMAN

5839 posts in 3052 days


#14 posted 04-11-2015 06:17 PM

That dolly looks suspiciously like what is sold here in the uk as a gas bottle barrow..I could be wrong but in the meantime have fun.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

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SlimPickins

121 posts in 1381 days


#15 posted 04-11-2015 11:46 PM



That dolly looks suspiciously like what is sold here in the uk as a gas bottle barrow..I could be wrong but in the meantime have fun.Alistair

- SCOTSMAN

My log dolly would be way overkill for a gas bottle or a beer keg but same basic shape, just different size wheels and the frame is thicker. It is a custom-made dolly that is designed to handle 2000 lbs. The tires are rated at 1000 lbs. each. It takes tremendous strength to push it up even a slight incline, as it’s extremely heavy.

So all that dolly is a bit overkill for the 200 – 400 lb. logs I’m carrying. I cannot lift more than about a 400 lb. log onto a dolly, and even that size is not at all easy – my back was badly strained today. I guess I’m half crazy to do this job but I’ve enjoyed it! Once I get the come-along, I should be able to get the larger logs up the hill.

I don’t think my performance was as exciting as today’s Masters – Woods, Michelson, Spieth, Justin Rose’s chip and 67, Ian Poulter, Michelson’s bomb putt, Tiger’s hitting good again.

I have relatives from Germany, England, and Scotland. I know the German and English back to the 1400’s but I have yet to trace the Scottish part of my family. Scotland’s a nice place. My mother visited Scotland and the towns they are from but I do not have her notes – they got lost I guess, or another family member has them.

Cheers!

-- If a bug can't eat it, it isn't good wood

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