What fence with my DELTA Table Saw?

it wasn’t one of your choices, but I like the Delta unifence, mainly because you don’t have a back rail to fuss with.
It is a bit of a PIA if you decide to use it for cutting on the left side of the blade, which you may not have to do much, since this is a left tilt saw your looking at.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

tim, not sure if you are speaking of different Delta Unifence but I did mention one as an option. Are there different ones? Are you thinking of another that I could get as an upgrade?

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Biesemeyer

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Jim, did I mispell it somwhere or are you telling me to go with the Biesemeyer? lol

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Sailor – Which fence to get should really boil down to which one makes the most sense to you. I’m a fan of the Biesemeyer, but have to say that for the price the T2 is tough value to beat. It’s really a “Biese Lite”...steel body, steel rails, t-square design. If you’re compelled to spend more for a fence upgrade, go for it but the T2 is a plenty functional fence.

You’re correct that cast iron is generally preferable to steel wings but it’s more of a “nice to have” feature than a “must have”. A table exstension is nice but is very small concern when looking at a new saw…you can add one of your own for very little money. The reason it’s included with the Biese fence is that fence actually rides on the table.

If you’re willing to spend closer to a grand for a saw, I think I’d consider upgrading to something like a cabinet saw, or at least a hybrid saw if you don’t have 220v available. AFAIK, Lowes sells the Delta 36-980 with cast iron wings and the T2 fence for ~ $600….$710 isn’t a great price.

Ive really enjoyed the 52in unifence…but have never used the biesemeyer…i would go with Jim’s recommendation, hes an experienced wood worker…30 years plus…...from reviews Ive read..it’s very accurate ,,,square ..good for clamping onto it…...have fun with your new saw….nothing like it…after a ryobi…you will be very pleased..grizzman

-- The Grizzone

scott,

Lowes? I have read that they sell it but I can’t find it on their website….... Where can I find it?

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I recently went through this same thought process. I narrowed it to the Biese and the Uni due to reviews I’d read and then, when talking with our local Delta dealer, learned that Delta is phasing out the Unifence, in favor of the Biese. Based upon that, I went with the Biese. I can see why it is the basis other fences are measured against!

Jim

-- Jim in Alaska

Sailor

I complained to Lowes and HD a few months ago because I could not find certain items. They said not all items are listed on their website. I said duh I know that!

I came that close to buying the $600 Delta contractors saw from Lowes. If I had not found a once in a lifetime deal on a cabinet saw, the Delta saw would be sitting in my garage, as I type. The Lowes deal is a good price, plus if you don’t like it, take it back. Unifence or biesemeyer, it’s probably a coin toss. didn’t delta buy beisemeyer? i have the shopfox clone of the beisemeyer and i’m fine with it. perfectly accurate.

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

david,

Gotcha, I guess I will head over to my local Lowe’s and ask them about it.

I am pretty sure that Delta owns Beisemeyer. At least I read that somewhere and it makes more sense since the product description said “Delta Bieseyemer”.

If I can get that saw for under $700 with the Beisemeyer then I will order one real quick like!

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Sailor, I got my jet cab saw off from craigslist.com for a lot less with the 52 inch beisemeyer fence with the long rails that can rip 52 inches to the right of the blade. If you can wait a while there are some great deals out there. And all the cast iron extensions.

-- Life is to short to own an ugly boat.

going with eather fence you will be extremely happy. i haven’t hat a bisy in years i went with the uni fence about 3 years ago and haven’t looked back but their are down sides to it. fixtures are almost impossible to attach to it with out drilling holes in to it. so i buy c channel the right size to fit the head and just build all my fixtures out of MDF. one thing i do like about doing it this way is i can make my fixtures so i can still use the tape on the rail. good luck to you

-- I buy tools so i can make more money,so ican buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tool, so I can work more

I’ve used a 52” Vega saw fence on my unisaw for 15 years and ave been extremely pleased with its performance. Probably even lower priced than better known name brands.

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

Well, I went by Lowe’s today to check out their pricing. For the Delta 36-982 which is the saw with the Biesemeyer fence was about $900 the person told me. They didn’t give an exact price, I am not sure but the woman really didn’t know what she was doing. It took us a while to just find it in the catalog until I took over and found it.

She called someone and their price was $850 and she said that I could get it for probably about $900. Thats the better than any price that I can find on the internet, anyone know of a better bargain?

I think I have decided on the Bie since so many people like it, just seems like it would be a good choice since I am not getting a cabinet saw or a hybrid. I like this saw because it can be moved around with the mobile base.

It’s a really tough decision buy a saw….......

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Sailor – It seems like you really want to get a nice saw, and you’re doing due diligence with your homework. It’s important to get the saw that you like best, but had hybrids been available in my price range when I bought my contractor saw, I’d have wanted someone to nudge me just a little like I’m going to nudge you, and spare the upgrade process (and cost). I’ve got time tonight to spell some things out that I hope you’ll give consideration to.

The Biesemeyer is a great fence…highly rated, highly respected, rugged, easy to use, accurate, etc. No issue with that fence whatsoever…I like it a lot. But it can also be pretty expensive, and there are several that are in the same league. Having owned two Biesemeyers, a Vega, a Shop Fox Classic, and a Jet Exacta II, I’ll be the first to tell you not to give up very much just to hold onto the Biese if it means buying a lesser saw. Anyone of those fences are at roughly the same level as the Biese, and the SF Classic and Exacta II are a very similar design. The HTC fence and Powermatic fence are the same as the Exacta II. There are also some improved versions of this type of fence from Steel City, Laguna, Saw Stop, and Grizzly. Not to mention that the Jet Proshop hybrid fence is pretty darn good too. Point being that the Biese is the gold standard and the original of this type, but there are others that are very worthy to put on your saw.

The basic Delta contractor saw is a solid value without a fence at $450….for $900 with the Biese (36-982) it’s not a good deal IMO. It means you’re paying $450 for the Biese fence, which is just about MSRP. The Delta contractor saw is also based on a slightly watered down 60 year old design….that comment isn’t intended to slam the basic 36-979, but to point out the realities of where it falls compared to other saws and other types of saws. Contractor saws were developed decades ago as a portable option to take to the worksite, thus were made with an outboard motor for easy removal, which is really the only advantage of that motor location. The outboard motor location creates large openings that make dust collection difficult, necessitates a longer belt (more vibration and less efficient power transfer), a higher safety concern, leverage on the trunnions, and a signficant risk of lifting something inadvertantly when the blade tilts, which can really whack the alignment. Once the portable jobsite saw evolved to the point of respectability, and sliding compound miter saws hit the scene, the traditional contractor saw’s obsolescence was just a matter of time. Also, some contractor saws, the Delta included, use steel connecting rods as an arbor carriage between the trunnion brackets…its cheaper and lighter to manufacturer, but not necessarily a better design than saws that use a single cast arbor carriage. These rods can twist when the saw is beveled creating an effect called heeling that essentially puts the back of the blade out of line with the front of the blade. It’s not always an issue, but should be considered before buying, as opposed to finding out after.

The hybrid saw is an evolution of the traditional contractor saw that eliminates many of the disadvantages posed by the outboard motor. The hybrid is about the same size, has the same duty rating, similar power, and similar electrical requirements, all while offering a smaller footprint, better DC, better power transfer, etc., etc….which are really most of the advantages a full cabinet saw offers, but with less power and lower duty rating. There are plenty of us who have and/or still do good work with a traditional contractor saw…it’s capable of good work, and while it may not be worthwhile to pursue changing saws from a traditional contractor saw to a hybrid, it is worthwhile skipping the contractor saw in the first place and buying the hybrid instead if at all possible. Unless price or features of a contractor saw offer a compelling advantage, there’s really no benefit in picking the older design over the hybrid IMO. Many of the hybrids either offer a Biese fence, or a Biese caliber fence.

If you’ve got 220v available, or if you could get it fairly easily, the industrial 3hp cabinet saws trump all the hybrids…they’re simply more powerful and robust than hybrids or contractor saws. A cabinet saw may be a bit over the top, but it’s hard to put up much of an argument in favor of spending ~ $900 for a contractor saw, when a Grizzly 1023SL is $1075 shipped…and there are other worthy 3hp saws near that price range.

That’s about as far as I’ll go, but take a look at the pics below:

The guts of a Delta contractor saw:

The guts of a Craftsman hybrid, Steel City hybrid, Ridgid hybrid, Grizzly hybrid:

The guts of some 3hp industrial cabinet saws:

p.s.: Any saw can be put on a mobile base. It’s a nice built in feature, but buy the saw, not the mobile base.

Scott,

Thank you for the great reply!

I understand your point, I should strongly consider a hybrid saw and maybe even a cabinet saw. I will definately take a look at the hybrids (and probably purchase one) and the cabinet saws.

So fences….....

I don’t have first hand knoledge of any fence other than the peice of junk on the Ryobi in my shop. So I really don’t know what to look for in a fence, and I don’t really know what I need a fence to do for me other than to stay square to the saw.

That being said, I (think) I just want a fence that will stay square and give me good accurate cuts. I know the Biesemeyer will do this but I sounds like there are other fences out there that will do that same thing but for less $$$. I do enjoy the thought of having “the best fence” but I will enjoy just as much having a fence that I can trust is true and accurate. If the other fences you mentioned will do that for me and for a cheaper price then I will certainly be satisfied with a lesser fence than the Biesemeyer.
Isn’t that basically all I want out of a fence?

When I first started looking at table saws I really like the Jet Proshop Hybrids. But after a good bit of reading I, for some reason that I have forgotten, ended up liking the Delta Contractors saw better. So, I will do some reading about the Jet Proshop, reviews and such, and reconsider. Also, if the fence that comes with the Proshop will do everything I want it to then it seems a bit senseless to spend the extra money for the Biesemeyer.

The reason I am buying a good saw is because I am considering making furniture and cabinets part time (which may or may not happen), but really because I want a good high quality saw that will last me a long time…....

Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

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Did some more looking around; comparing prices, features and reviews, checking out the hybrid saws and a few cabinet saws.

I like the Jet Proshop alot, it seems to be a good saw and most people love it. It goes for about $999 on amazon with cast iron wings and the standard Jet fence which I believe scott said wasn’t a bad fence at all.

I had read about the Grizzly G0478 cabinet saw for $850, have heard good and bad about it.

Looks like the Grizzly is a great deal.

Also, there is a Delta Unisaw not to far from me on craigslist for $550 and said to be in excellent condition. Worth the trip to check it out?

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yes. if it’s in excellent condition, and you can setup 220V in your workshop area – the unisaw is worth the trip to check out. probably can also negotiate the price a little more.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

“Also, there is a Delta Unisaw not to far from me on craigslist for $550 and said to be in excellent condition. Worth the trip to check it out?”

Absolutely…the Uni is a very substantial saw that will last several lifetimes. $550 is a good price for a Uni. It’ll likely be 3hp, which requires 220v. Can’t hurt to look, but it might not be a “turn key” tool like a new saw…surface rust, dirt, paint stains, etc. can all be cleaned up easily… try to look past the cosmetic stuff. Pitting from rust is more of a problem but not necessarily a show stopper. Spin the arbor, check for obvious cracks or problems underneath, move the handwheels. There are still parts available for old Unis. At $550, you have wiggle room to add a decent fence, mobile base, good blade, etc. How much time are you willing to put in it if need be?

Check out this Uni restoration

Sailor, knotscott’s advice is spot on so I wont add much technical details but I will add my “lifes experience” opinion.

I’ve owned 5 table saws over the course of my days, each time upgrading and either letting a family member have the old saw or peddling the last saw on craigslist. I’ve owned the ryobi bt3000 and still have furniture in the house made on that saw. The fact that you have ryobi doesn’t necessarily mean you cant make quality furniture, but it is probably true it will be a more time consuming and frustrating process.

A really nice thing about the ryobi is that it is small. A really bad thing about the ryobi is that it is small. Small is nice when you are sharing the garage with your spouse and you need to move the cars out, set all your tools out to work, clean up and put everything away when you’re done. A small footprint saw is just the ticket. The down side of small is lower mass, higher vibration, lower power, less rigid. Doesn’t mean it wont work, just wont be as easy or nice.

Next step up is the contractor saws. Scott already summarized it pretty well. From my point of view they really don’t make sense anymore. Pretty much any saw is going to be an upgrade from your ryobi, so you would probably be happy with one, until you upgrade to your next saw. The contractor saws are too big to put away nicely, but too small to have the mass and power of a cabinet saw. If you had a friend give you one you’d be set, but I wouldn’t put out new money on one.

The hybrids, well, they have some nice features over the contractors saws, but in my opinion not enough advantages to make them a great option either. I would only consider the hybrids if a cabinet saw (cost, 220 power, footprint, mobility, etc) was completely out of the question.

So that leaves me to my “sage advice”. Save your money and buy a quality cabinet saw. They really are that much better, no really, they really are that much better, really, no kidding. Because if you stay with this craft you will end up with a cabinet saw someday anyhow, why not start there and skip the cost of the saws in the middle. I already tried that path, it’s not cheaper.

Here’s a link to a discussion from a few years ago that might apply Battle of the Brands and another thread cabinet saw face off

I second the suggestion to start scanning craigslist, I have gotten some killer deals on craigslist.

As to which saw, well eventually, after long paths, time, and money, I have the powermatic PM2000. It’s a super saw, super expensive, but I’m really happy. If you had the money and interest that’s obviously the one I’d recommend. I’m personally not a huge fan of Grizzly equipment but they uniformly get good reviews, particularly for the cost to functionality. If I couldn’t find a saw on craigslist I’d probably start with Grizzly and then look up from there.

Just got off the phone with gentleman selling the Unisaw and I found out that it is a 5hp 3-phase saw. Unfortunately I do not have three phase in my shop amd I am pretty sure that it would take an arm and a leg to get it.

I wonder if it would be worth buying a new motor for the saw that was 220? Doubt it….....

The gentleman did say that the saw was in like new condition though.

Looks like I may settle for the Grizzly then, seems like a good saw for what I need. After all, I did just purchase a Grizzly air hose reel for my shop, I need it to match something…....

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Well, I bought just recently (2 month ago) a Craftsman 22124 Hibrid, it comes with a nice super precise Biesemayer fence, it is well balanced no vibration and hefty machine and I paid less that 900 delivered to my garage. If you belong to the Craftsman club you might save even more.

jerryz,

Thanks for recommending the Craftsman. I checked it out and read a pretty good bit of reviews on it. I like that it comes with the Biesemeyer fence and that it’s so heavy and a great price. But there are a few complaints that I noticed in a quite a few reviews.

-table wasn’t completely flat
-was unable to cut 3/4” dado’s
-underpowered

I can live with a table that isn’t perfect, but I want to be able to cut 3/4” dado’s in one pass. I don’t think I will be cutting much large hardwood stock so the underpowered complaints don’t really bother me that much.

Mainly the dado….....BUT the Biesemeyer fence is great. I will definately keep the craftsman on my list.

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One thing that really sticks out in my mind is that Biesemeyer fence. The fact that everyone say’s that you can comfortably rely on the tape on the fence for perfectly accurate mesurements and there is no need for a ruler. Gosh, I can’t even imagine what the would be like! Eutopia…..........

If I go with the Grizzly, does their fence have that type of quality?

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Sorry for the repeated posts, but I’m going out of town for the 4th so I may not respond again until Sunday.

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Hello Sailor I have delta cabinet saw 3 horse 220 with unifence . I just like to say as far horse power i to looked at the 5 horse but i came to my senses. I do it as hobby and if your same 3 horse is all you will need IMO.My unifence i love never used biesemeyer fence i think that both fence are good and accurate but remember that when it come to any fence it only as accurate as you are if that make senses in other words taking the time to get dial in and as accurate as fence manufactured says it is and if it any concellation I would go and with a cabinet saw if you can afford one my IMO yes more money but you get IMO a better saw and i think you would much happier. I hope i help good luck and hope to hear what you got .

Sailor – You can cut 3/4” dados with the 22124. The arbor length on that saw is about the same as most other contractor or hybrid saws. With the full 13/16” stack you need to leave the arbor washer off, which is a common and recommended operation for saws of that size. The 3hp cabinet saws have a slightly longer arbor so you can leave the washer on for the full stack. Reviews that make uninformed complaints like that are one reason I caution people to take reviews lightly….it’s someone’s opinion, and not all are accurate.

The 22124 won’t have the power of a 3hp cabinet saw but with proper set up and good blade selection, it’ll cut just about anything to full blade height without much struggle. I owned one for 3-1/2 years and really liked it. While the 22124 is as good as any hybrid, with the advantages of cabinet mounted trunnions, Beise fence, and heavy mass, the out the door price is only ~ $100 less than a Grizzly G1023SL 3hp cabinet saw. If you can do 220v, I highly suggest getting the full blown cabinet saw, and yes, you’ll be able to reliably use the tape on the Shop Fox fence. There are pics of a 22124 and G1023SL above…

Have a nice 4th everyone! (It’ll be hard for me to keep up with the forums over the weekend as well…)

as knotscott said, and i can vouch, the shop fox tape is accurate down to a nats behind, maybe just a tad more, easily a 64th on a bad day. and i have felt your pain, sweating on a cast aluminum table in not so good light trying to measure with a ruler from a shakey fence to edge of carbide tipped blade. so much time put into something i take for granted these days. just my $0.02, unless you like to tinker, and have the funds to tinker because it will always costs more than you thought, buy new, or close to it. i still say there’s nothing wrong with the delta contractor saw and their T2 fence, but if you can be patient (god its hard) save up for a cabinet saw if at all possible. you’ll really be glad you did.

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

you can buy phase converters BTW i think 550 for 5 hp saw is a heck of a deal but im not sure if that much power can be converted

-- I buy tools so i can make more money,so ican buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tool, so I can work more

I have the same Delta Table saw that you are considering buying. I think it works great! I’ve had it with the T-2 fence and think that it works great too. I can’t say whether or not the Beis will work better (it proably will) since I’ve never used it. The T-2 is certainly good enough for me. I paid about 400 dollars for the entire saw and fence together from Lowes, but I got a heck of a deal (I work there). They used to be a stock item but then they moved to SOE (special order express) so they had to get rid of all their product and display models. That’s why you won’t find the saw on their website. If they looked up the saw on Granger, then the price is going to be higher. They need to order it from their delta catalog and it should be a little more cost effective.

I may not be in the best place to give a review of the saw since I’ve only had it for a few months. I love it compared to by old saw, which was also a Delta, but one of those cheap 150 dollar ones. (probably like your old Ryobi) The upgrade was intense and I am still ecstatic about owning this table saw!

-- Let the favor of the Lord our God be on us; establish the work of our hands- establish the work of our hands! Psalm 90:17

I hope everyone had a great 4th!

Just like to say that I believe I have settled on the Grizzly 1023SL Cabinet saw. It seems to be a good value for the money. I sure am glad i came here for some advice, looks like I’ll be hanging around for a while learning more and maybe share a little knowledge here and there also.

Thanks everyone for your opinions and for following this thread through!

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The 1023 was my fourth (and current, and likely final!) tablesaw. Just setting it up made it clear to me that I’d wasted my money not getting to a cabinet saw sooner! Glad you made the jump!

I have the 3hp 220v model. Fantastic saw. Enjoy!

-- Laziness - Apathy = Efficiency

I am now a proud owner of a Grizzly 1023SL tablesaw!!!!!!!! Boy am I excited!!!!!

But, I have to wait for it to get here!!!! I don’t have it yet but I have just completed the order and it should be here in 4-6 days, hopefully unharmed…....

I would like to thank everyone for their fabulous opinions and all their input. Without asking for help, there is no telling what I would have ended up with (probably a contractor’s saw for not much cheaper than the cabinet saw).

I can’t wait!

By the way, Grizzly has a deal going on that you get a free gift with each order and I chose a 10” saw blade since the saw doesn’t come with one. Can anyone tell me if this blade is good enough to go on this saw?

http://sawsharpening.com/products/DW7640-10-x-5-8-50t-ATB-R-118-General-Purpose-Blade/H5049

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A most excellent choice Sailor! Congrats! I seriously doubt you’ll ever have any regrets…that’s among the most popular of all the cabinet saws on the market, and has a very large following.

The pic of the blade in that link doesn’t match the model number, but the DW7640 50T ATB/R is an excellent all around blade….one that I’ve use frequently lately. Woodworkers Journal Rated it “Best Buy” in full kerf general purpose blades about two years ago….price was a factor in their choice over the Forrest, but the 7640 cuts well. I think you’ll like it. Buy or make a decent zero clearance insert for it…I prefer the phenolic plates, but YMMV. I don’t recommend the UHMW plastic inserts because they flex and bow too much.

Because there are several choices in 220v outlet types, the saw comes with a cord but no plug, so you’ll want to have one available that’ll match your outlet. The instructions are pretty good, so it shouldn’t be too bad to get it up and going. You’ll mount the door, the switch, wings, fence, and handles. I skipped the guard/splitter bracket and added a BORK aftermarket riving knife for it.

When you set your saw up, you may want to slide the front rail tube over to the right by 10” (one bolt hole) to get 36” rip capacity instead of the 26” stock configuration. Very easy to do. You’ll lose the left side capacity, but with a left tilt saw you should never need it…a great trade off if you ask me. You’ll mount the front and rear angle bracket as instructed in the manual, but will mount the front tube rail to the right by the distance of one bolt hole…you’ll use 3 bolts instead of 4 to anchor it, and it’ll still be very sturdy. Since the fence rides on the table surface, you’ll need to add a table board in order for the fence to slide the additional 10”, but that’s easy to do also. Note that the stock measuring tape only goes to 26”...you’ll either need to measure by hand beyond 26”, add a different tape that goes to 36”, or add some blank tape stickers to the stock tape.

Good luck and enjoy! Please take some pics and give us an update once it’s up and running.

Here’s a pic of the DW7640:

Here’s a pic of my 1677 router table extension with Jet Exacta router fence attached.

Here’s a pic of my BORK peeking through:

Thank you scott for yet another great post.

I’m glad that the saw blade I chose will be a good one…..

Thanks for reminding me about the plug that I will need, I remember now reading about that in a review somewhere. I’m guessing that there is just a cord with exposed wires on the end that I need to splice into?

SOunds like a great idea getting the extra 10” of rip capacity, I will definately take advantage of that. I guess it would probably be best to buy a new tape all together wouldn’t it? I wonder if I would be able to put a new one on and have it be as accurate as the one already in place? If the tape can be trusted when I adjust the fence then I don’t know if I want to risk messing it up by even a 16th. It may look cheap but might it be better to just start a new tape over going from 0-10”?

Unless of course I can replace the tape accurately.

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Sailor-

For further consideration check out in the review tab from Purplev on the Ridgid R4511 Granite Top. It’s an informative review to add to your possibilities.

-- Badgerman, Tennessee

There are good aftermarket tapes available, but I don’t have any experience with any of them. Rockler, Woodcraft, Hartville Tool, Eagle America, etc., should all be able to advise on reliable tape, and perhaps someone here has experience with one.

IIRC, your description of how the wires come is correct.

Well I woke up this morning excited about my table saw arriving today. So I cleared my schedule so that I could be there to unload the saw with a fork lift and set up and check it out. I sat around the plant until 3 o’clock whenI recieved a call from UPS.

“Your package will be delivered tomorrow…..” How disapointing…..

I even called them yestarday afternoon to ask what time should I be expecting the shipment and they said that they would call back within 30 minutes. Of course, no call so I just assume that the tracking information was correct that the delivery date would be today. Also, when I woke up this morning and checked the tracking the saw was indeed in town, jsut needed to be delivered.

Now I have to do the work that I put off to tomorrow in the morning and hope that the I am around when the saw arrives. They couldn’t give and estimate of what time th saw would be delivered tomorrow either.

shhhhhhheeeshhhhh….....

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