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Forum topic by chickenhelmet posted 06-24-2009 06:39 PM 2351 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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chickenhelmet

99 posts in 2774 days


06-24-2009 06:39 PM

Topic tags/keywords: finishing

I think this is the right fourm. Simple question…. can you add shellac as a sealer over water based stain? (General Finishes stain & Bullseye clear shellac) Thanks!

-- Larry , Colorado www.coloradorecordcrates.com


15 replies so far

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Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 3283 days


#1 posted 06-24-2009 07:29 PM

Shellac can be added a sealer over any stain or dye and is a base coat for any topcoat as well. Or it can be used as a topcoat itself. But in this case the clear shellac is not a dewaxed product therefore I would not use it as a sealer since the wax will interfere with the application of subsequent topcoats. Bullseye does make a sanding sealer that would work. If memory serves me correctly the sanding sealer is a 2 pound cut of shellac and the clear is a 3 pound cut. The 2 pound cut is more appropriate as a sealer.

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

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a1Jim

115202 posts in 3039 days


#2 posted 06-24-2009 07:35 PM

what Scott said

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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jockmike2

10635 posts in 3708 days


#3 posted 06-24-2009 07:42 PM

What Jim said.

-- (You just have to please the man in the Mirror) Mike from Michigan -

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chickenhelmet

99 posts in 2774 days


#4 posted 06-24-2009 08:11 PM

Thanks Scott, thanks Jim, thanks Mike! Some more info… I make LP/vinyl crates. This project/business is taking off fast and I’m having a hard time keeping up. I’m trying to save some time by using the shellac as the sealer/topcoat for the inside of the crates and spending the “time” on the outside. You can see the crates and stain colors on the products of the site. Thanks again!
http://www.coloradorecordcrates.com/

-- Larry , Colorado www.coloradorecordcrates.com

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Kindlingmaker

2656 posts in 2988 days


#5 posted 06-24-2009 08:12 PM

Ok guys I are be stupid… I have been reading for months and watching dvd’s but still do not know what a 2 pound cut or 3 pound cut is. ...I think it was just yesterday that I found out that there was stuff out there besides latex paint. ; )

ps sorry to interfer with chickenhelmet’s original question.

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

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chickenhelmet

99 posts in 2774 days


#6 posted 06-24-2009 08:14 PM

No problem! I could use the answer to that as well.

-- Larry , Colorado www.coloradorecordcrates.com

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Shopsmithtom

788 posts in 3656 days


#7 posted 06-24-2009 09:28 PM

I’m going to try to get this table to be readable. I’m not real good at inserting images, this was a pdf that I converted to jpg & put on photobucket & then to here because I couldn’t get the pdf to load here. -SST
shellac table

-- Accuracy is not in your power tool, it's in you

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lew

11336 posts in 3217 days


#8 posted 06-24-2009 09:38 PM

Thanks for this chart!!!

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

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Kindlingmaker

2656 posts in 2988 days


#9 posted 06-24-2009 09:44 PM

OUTSTANDING! Thank you!

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

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Kindlingmaker

2656 posts in 2988 days


#10 posted 06-24-2009 10:03 PM

opps another problem… mrwoody posted this “Stain and Shellac-All the info you could want.” and it says that a 4# cut is FOUR lbs of shellac, (its on page two of his link).

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

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Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 3283 days


#11 posted 06-25-2009 12:49 AM

Kindlingmaker, the two are the same. It just that Mrwoody’s reference is calling for 4 pounds in a gallon and David’s chart would call for 1 pound in 1 quart of alcohol. It does get confusing. Here is an article in Fine Wood Working that helps to explain the apparent contradiction in diluting shellac.

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

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DocK16

1178 posts in 3548 days


#12 posted 06-25-2009 02:46 AM

Shellac (dewaxed) can also be used as a sealer before applying stain to avoiid bloching.

-- Common sense is so rare anymore when you do see it, it looks like pure genius.

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Shopsmithtom

788 posts in 3656 days


#13 posted 06-25-2009 04:22 PM

I’ve used about a 1 1/2 – 2 lb cut as a sealer before stain. The ratio isn’t too critical, as long as it’s a pretty thin mix. I’ve even used non dewaxed on several projects and as long as I scuffed it, the top coat adhesion has been fine. I remember reading (in Fine woodworking, I think) that’s ok to used the waxed kind as long as you scuff it, so since that’s what had, I have been using it with good results. -SST

-- Accuracy is not in your power tool, it's in you

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Kindlingmaker

2656 posts in 2988 days


#14 posted 06-25-2009 05:40 PM

Correct me if I’m wrong. The way I understand it The base line is “shellac pounds to one gallon of alcohol”. So no mater what the mixed volume is, say for a 2# mix, if its 4 fluid onces or 8 gallons the shellac solids are of the same saturation within the mix. So the 4 fluid onces and the 8 gallons would both be a 2# mix.

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

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Shopsmithtom

788 posts in 3656 days


#15 posted 06-25-2009 10:09 PM

That’s my understanding, and the chart bears that out, but from my experience, the exactness of the mix is not too critical. When I make a wash coat to seal before staining, I use Zinsser’s premix shellac and add enough alcohol until it seems right. Based on the dilution ratios, it ends up at around 1 1/2 to 2 lb cut, but I always mix enough to do the whole job for consistency. Another thing I like about shellac is that you don’t have to scuff between coats because the fresh stuff will dissolve into the existing coat. I do scuff before top coating with some other finish. -SST

-- Accuracy is not in your power tool, it's in you

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