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Forum topic by mart posted 06-20-2009 10:39 PM 1337 views 1 time favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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mart

190 posts in 3088 days


06-20-2009 10:39 PM

I am building a bookcase from boo boos and scraps from a large library I did recently. I was cutting dados for a triangular shelving piece to go on the end of one of the bookcases when I mismeasured for the dados and ended up with a piece I couldn’t use for the job (I cut another piece correctly). I decided to use the miscut piece for a 2’ wide 6’ tall bookcase at my house. I have the carcass all glued up and am considering some Greene and Greene elements for the face frame and base. The shelve are all fixed so I am considering cloud lifts on all the shelf fronts. Would that be too much? I haven’t started on the face frame yet so I can make the face frame what ever dimensions I need to accommodate the cloud lift. I just don’t know if a cloud lift on each shelf would be overkill or if it would be a nice distinctive feature. Sorry, I don’t do sketch up or I would draw up my ideas for you to see and comment on. I have always liked the Greene and Greene features and thought this might be a good opportunity to incorporate some into a project. I plan to use the proud finger joints for the base and top molding. Thanks for any advice.

Mart


14 replies so far

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

115202 posts in 3040 days


#1 posted 06-20-2009 11:21 PM

Hey Mart
To my sense it would be a over kill. The guy to ask is Darrell Peart. He wrote a book on greene and greene.

http://lumberjocks.com/Darrell

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Karson's profile

Karson

35035 posts in 3864 days


#2 posted 06-21-2009 12:30 AM

I’d like to see your ideas. can you hand draw them and post the picture?

-- I've been blessed with a father who liked to tinker in wood, and a wife who lets me tinker in wood. Southern Delaware soon moving to Virginia karsonwm@gmail.com †

View mart's profile

mart

190 posts in 3088 days


#3 posted 06-21-2009 02:45 AM

Tried scanning the drawing but ended up having to take a picture of it to get photo bucket to recognize it. Anyway this is what I have in mind. I ran out of room at the top of the page but intend to wrap the top with trim that has the same proud finger joints as the base. I will use ebony plugs on each joint. sorry for the crudeness of the drawing. I whipped it out in a hurry.

Mart

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mart

190 posts in 3088 days


#4 posted 06-21-2009 02:50 AM

I can’t seem to get the big picture to post. I never had this problem before. Seems like it only wants to post as thumbnail. When I have posted in the past I just clicked on direct link for the picture and paste it in the post after clicking on insert photo. Am I doing something wrong or am I just a technotard?

Mart

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mart

190 posts in 3088 days


#5 posted 06-21-2009 06:18 PM

I figured out the problem. The size at photo bucket was set to tiny from an avatar I posted on another forum. Here is a picture of what I had in mind for the book case. Still not posting as big as I would like.

Mart

View kiwi1969's profile

kiwi1969

609 posts in 2905 days


#6 posted 06-22-2009 12:31 AM

looks good to me. maybe step the cloudlifts back a fraction from the front of the shelves to give you a shadow line. The finger joint base is a winner also. and don,t forget to post the final result to inspire the rest of us who also need to find “design opportunities’!

-- if the hand is not working it is not a pure hand

View DrTebi's profile

DrTebi

255 posts in 2730 days


#7 posted 06-23-2009 10:45 AM

Hello Mart,

I have studied the Greene & Greene style quite a bit recently. I think the base works out beautifully, and the idea of the cloud lifting is definitely right on. However, it seems a bit too much in my opinion. I would try to find a balance between the bottom and the top. In other words, you may want to use cloud lifting for the bottom and top shelf, but in between keep it straight.

Jim mentioned Darrell Peart, and if you check out his website and loot at the “Greene and Greene Chest” he designed (http://www.furnituremaker.com/chest_of_drawers.htm), you can see how he used the cloud lifting on the top and bottom of the piece, but kept it straight in between in order to not exaggerate this unique design element.

This is just my humble opinion, it may not be yours, but since you asked for opinions…

View mart's profile

mart

190 posts in 3088 days


#8 posted 06-23-2009 09:35 PM

Well it’s to late to turn back now. I weighed the opinions of all who responded and opted to go with the cloud lift on all the shelf facings. The bookcase is more of an experiment than anything since it started as a way to use up some pre-finished maple plywood I had made an error on. I also needed to give myself another bookcase for the family room so my woodworking magazines and books wouldn’t have to live in piles next to my chair. It is all glued up and waiting to be taken out of the clamps. I wanted to do something more than just a plain bookcase with a plain face frame. I faced the bookcase with some Alaskan birch I had cut and kiln dried recently as it finishes very close to maple. I will be using walnut plugs rather than ebony. I have some ebony but not enough to make all the plugs. Now it is on to the finger joints. This should be interesting. I hope to post some pics in a couple days.

Mart

View CaptainSkully's profile

CaptainSkully

1432 posts in 3022 days


#9 posted 06-27-2009 08:45 PM

I know I’m a bit late on this one, but I think a shallow cloud lift on each shelf front would be just fine. Other G&G elements that I incorporate often are ebonized vinegar & steel wool) oak, pillowed plugs, 1/4” square in any intersection and splines on corners. Make sure you make templates so you can route all of the liftsexactly the same (one half flipped over guarantees symmetry). Good luck! Make sure to post as you go.

-- You can't control the wind, but you can trim your sails

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

9438 posts in 3516 days


#10 posted 06-27-2009 11:16 PM

Can I ask… What is a “cloud lift”?

BTW: Dr Tebi, in order to get the link, you posted, to work, it needs a space before & after it… like
( http://www.furnituremaker.com/chest_of_drawers.htm )
Just thought you’d like to know…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View mart's profile

mart

190 posts in 3088 days


#11 posted 06-28-2009 12:11 AM

Joe,

If you look at the chest of drawers featured in that link, the stepped portion of the bottom rail and the portion of the face frame between the top two drawers and the second drawer down illustrates a cloud lift. Not all cloud lifts are arched such as those, many are straight with a raised portion on either the top or the bottom of the rail. It is a fairly common element in Greene and Greene design.

Mart

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

9438 posts in 3516 days


#12 posted 06-28-2009 12:29 AM

Mart, thank you…

So, in your face frame, you’re going to have those lil offsets (cloud lifts) on each side of the shelves?

Does that mean the upper portion of the rail will be a little higher than the shelf so there will be somewhere for the Cloud Lift to go?

Looking forward to seeing what you do & how you did it.

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View Dick, & Barb Cain's profile

Dick, & Barb Cain

8693 posts in 3763 days


#13 posted 06-28-2009 12:38 AM

I did cloud lifts on this tables shelves, & a reverse cloud lift on the apron.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

View mart's profile

mart

190 posts in 3088 days


#14 posted 06-28-2009 02:02 AM

Joe,

On my project the cloud lift is only on the underside of the shelf face frame. The top edge is flat to mate up with the surface of the shelf. I will post pics when I get a little more time. I am on my week on schedule right now so don’t have much more than time to sleep, eat and work with a few minutes thrown in to check my favorite forums. I work a 7 days on/7 days off schedule with 12 hour shifts. It is a great schedule but leaves little time during the work week for much other than work.

Dick and Barbs project is a good example of cloud lifts. Nice job folks, I really like it.

Mart

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