Tools and a warning..........

Yeah!! You’re covered for everything, except for anything that happens. In my experience insurance agents & stock brokers are congenital liars. Couldn’t do the job if they weren’t. Certainly can’t have a conscience that is for sure.

Cops are never there unless you don’t want one. I lost $10k tools. They never tried to look up the license # I gave them for 6 weeks!! It was just a property crime is what I was told. Nobody gave me a break on any of my bills since I was put out of business by “just a property crime.”

Sorry to hear about you loss, been there and done that:-((

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

As a Hurricane Katrina victim, I’ve heard a million stories of people who thought they had coverage for something and turned out not to.

Unfortunately, I doubt you have much recourse in this case. But you are providing others in this forum with a valuable lesson: Regardless of what your agent tells you, always read every word of your policy as soon as you get it, and if anything seems unclear, call the company (not the agent) for clarification.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

While I have never been robbed to this extent..I have had tools stolen from job sites before. As I got bigger, the fear of being robbed and losing everything terrified me. I asked my agent the same thing…she told me that insurance for contractors tools was outrageous in price, and she was right…I could not afford it.

But she asked me were I kept my tools when not in use, I told her at my house…and she told me if they were every stolen she could make a claim on my home owners policy. Now I have never had to test this…..but you may be able to ask your agent …assuming you keep your tools at your home when not being used. Can not hurt to try anyways.

-- Don S.E. OK

Man Todd that really sucks Bud,,,,,,,,,,,,I hope you can get things worked out with the insurance company on this. Good Luck!

-- Les, Wichita, Ks. (I'd rather be covered in saw dust!)

Don, Your homeowners policy probably excludes “tools of the trade”, been there and done that too before I went into business. I have extensive experience with thieves and cops. It ain’t like TV, thieves win and cops don’t do much but take reports for insurance compaines if there is any coverage.

CBS’s 60 minutes did a piece on insurance companies after the earth quake in CA a few yrs ago. Most of the biggies like St Farm, Allstate, ect, piad less than 1/2 what they owed to policiy holders. A woman in the CA ins commissioners office exposed it. The ins commissioner took a million or 2 in campaign contributions, resigned and moved to Hawaii. The feds investigated, could find no evidence of wrong doing. Some how it was in court, don’t remember all the details, but it was thrown out, policy holders screwed again!! :-((

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

When my trailer was stolen, I was told it was not covered for theft. However, if I had ASKED it to be and it wasn’t I could sue. Talk to a lawyer. You asked if it was covered, you was told that it was covered. You pay the agents to do your policy for you, they screwed up, you should be able to sue.

-- Berta in NC

Man that sucks I’m out there just like you and if my tools were not covered I don’t know what I would do.
Is your shop at your house,if so maybe your home owners covers it. Man I really feel for you.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

There isn’t enough damages to bother with attys. The clown that put me on Topamax cost us at least $250K. Attys say it costs at least 300k to go after him. In the last 25 yrs, my policy was for less then $10k, get on with your life, you aren’t going to collect anyway in most cases. You don’t need the aggrevation. May as well go do something you will get paid for with your time. That agent isn’t going to put a claim on his ins because it will cost him more for premiums if he isn’t cancelled. Ins has gotten to be a very hard business in the last decade, far beyond what anyone would have imagined in teh last century.

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

Only thing worse than a liar is a thief. Might go to some local pawn shops, tell the owner what got stolen and have him keep a look out. Heck, might just start checking them to get your stuff back. Most POS tool thieves just hock them for cash. Good friend had a fein multimaster stolen off a jobsite. Bought it back at a pawn shop two weeks later for $40. Better to get em back cheap than pay full price. Sorry for your loss. Hope justice is served.

-- http://www.efcabineture.com/ Woodworking for a living is a lifestyle not a career.

I think you could at least take the agent and the company he works for to small claims court. At least you might be able to recover some of your loss. It is definitely worth a try. This company will at least be on record of doing this to someone. I HATE THIEVES and the system that protects them!!!

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

Todd;
Two things. #1 You said you were working on your own home. (your home,your tools) Homeowner’s policy should cover them. #2 In every state there is a Insurance comission on the state level. You can make a formal complaint there. I’ve done it before and NO INSURANCE COMPANY WANTS A COMPLAINT TO THE STATE. Lot’s of luck and hope something turns up good for you. Keep us posted
“Dawg”

-- DeputyDawg

There are Two Thieves, The robbers and the insurance company…

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

Bad thing about checking out the pawn shops…Is here in Oklahoma you have to “Prove” they knowingly received stolen goods to get them back for free..and they are not going to admit it. My parents were robbed a few years ago by some teenagers….they found some of their jewelry in a pawn shop. They called the cops…it was Identified as theirs etc…..but to get it back from the pawn shop…they had to “Pay” the pawn shop what he payed for it….how’s that for a “Legal System” having to buy back what was stolen from you in the first place !!!

-- Don S.E. OK

Thanks for all your comments and advice….my home owners will NOT cover it, so I was told by my agent….no tools of the trade….so I guess the next time I have tools stolen I need to burn the house down????
very frustrating….talked to a lawyer last week meeting with them this coming week…I will keep you posted…
Deputy Dawg …very good idea on the insurance department…I will add that to my list,....thanks

-- Todd, Oak Ridge, TN, Hello my name is Todd and I'm a Toolholic, I bought my last tool 10 days, no 4 days, oh heck I bought a tool on the way here! †

Yep you where insured, and protected by the police and by the legal system. Sorry to hear that.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

I feel for you…I am a locksmith by trade. Years ago my van was broken into and I lost all my tools (about $2500.00). The owner I worked for said he had insurance. He filed a claim, adding other items that were not stolen and collected. Bad part is, he never gave me a dime! I have since been ripped off two more times. I thought I was covered personally the 2nd two times, but I never got anything. I wish you well, but want to say, “Do not hold your breath”. Please update this forum with your results. GOOD LUCK

-- Randy, Allen Texas

You are now learning the ways of insurance companies, as I learned many years ago. First, the theft loss payable clause will be equal to about 40 or 50% of the cost of the tools covered PER YEAR!. That is what I said. The annual linsurance premium is equal to about 50% of the value of the small tools covered. No tradesman can aford that type of charge.

Secondly, nothing an insurance salesman tells you is enforcable in court. Only that which is written in the ultra-samll print is enforcable in court.

I was hit twice in 2006. Once for over $100k and the other time for abour $20K. On the second loss, I was out. However, on the larger loss, my contract stipulated ‘Owner to Provide Full Time Site Security’. They did not. Therefore they paid without a whimper.

-- Rustfever, Central California

Most of my business ins has had the 40-50% of tool value as a premium as mentioned. The real kicker is they depreciate to less than that and require reciepts for evey tool to prove you owned it in the first place. After Elliiot Spitzer exposed Wall Street and the squeaky clean mutual fund industry as corrupt, he said he was going after ins companies. I never heard anything about that investigation, next thing I knew he was governor of NY. They had to get that guy out of the atty generals office :-))

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

I suggest you call the insurance company directly and not trust the agent (for the homeowners claim). I was told by my “agent” that some damage to my garage wasn’t going to be covered by my homeowners insurance because the tree that fell on it was considered “an act of God”. I got pissed and called the insurance company directly and they told me it was covered. Also, I assume you’re also keeping on eye on CL to see if anyone is trying to sell them. They caught a guy around here a month or so ago that was robbing contractor’s trucks and selling the tools on CL.

-- Dave, Colonie, NY

I have four dogs

One of them comes with me everywhere, everyday. I trust him and he trusts me and he “WILL” bite if an uninvited guest breaks in…................nothing like canine teeth and their pearly white absoliutly exposed teeth smiling away!!!!!

Sometimes I take two dogs and leave one or sometimes even both of them at the job site with my tools.

I dont have insurance on my job site tools…......dog food is cheaper and dogs are more fun then insurance agents….............and havent lost a tool since I got dogs or traded in a wife.

I keep 2 dogs in my shop at night…...........every night…................I dont know if they bite but they both have a guteral growl.

They never bark when my truck pulls up, they never bark when the wifes van pulls up

They are an awesome alarm system

Gotta love dogs, way cheaper then insurance and they even like ya at the end of the day.

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

I 2nd that roman. All our problems were when we didn’t have a dog.

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

Todd, Sorry to hear about your loss. As an avid woodworker, carpenter and law enforcement officer, I feel your pain. I hope the conduct of the officers taking your report was an exaggeration or an impression of irritation being a victim. I would hope most officers would hold themselves above your description but I’m disappointed at times too. I don’t work many property crimes but they are frustrating, it takes a lucky break or a good informant or some incredible descriptions to make a case. Recovery of the tools is one thing, prosecution and conviction is yet another. Won’t ramble about the legal system, sometimes confused by it myself.
Personally, I brand each and every tool I buy. Doesn’t hurt to have pictures and/or video of the tools. I have an etcher and inscribe every tool, socket, accessory, etc with a certain set of initials. I store my receipts and owners manuals separately and hope homeowners will cover. I’ve sold a couple of branded tools but marked the receipts and manual with the date of sale and signature. Yes, I’m anal!!!! My future plan is to put aside what a policy would cost me into a special account and have it as an emergency (recovery) fund or someday in the future a little nest-egg, if the thieves don’t hit, especially in my off premises work sites. It’s only a matter of time, especially with a tighter economy. My local departments and jurisdictions have seen an increase in burglaries, etc.
THIEVES REALLY PISS ME OFF!! Hope things work out. OBTW, Best part of setting aside your own premiums, or the cost of the rider, it cuts out the SOB selling the policy. My in-laws had their business sign torn down by a tornado in front of their owner-operator restaurant. It wasn’t attached to the building so it wasn’t covered. Evidently a small box on the edge of the form hadn’t been checked so it didn’t get covered, although they believed they were paying for the coverage. The agent still has the audacity to show up at holiday gatherings at their house. My blood pressure is going through the roof, better stop rambling and add agents onto my list of thieves.
Best of luck. BTKS

Thank to all of you for your kind thoughts and great ideas….Roman…really like the dog idea….BTKS…all the local police did was take the report when I went to them….and I guess that there is really nothing they can do about….nest egg idea is a great idea, like self insuring…....I’m going to keep a file of the serial numbers and the receipts….inscribing the tools sounds like a good idea…I wonder if the thieves have to go through this much bs just to work????

will keep you posted
Todd

-- Todd, Oak Ridge, TN, Hello my name is Todd and I'm a Toolholic, I bought my last tool 10 days, no 4 days, oh heck I bought a tool on the way here! †

I would insist they are not tools of the trade but they are for your hobby. Like Dawg said, your home, your hobby tools. I would push that hard. Start asking around, they will be looking to unload this stuff. Maybe you can catch them that way.

-- Bob K. East Northport, NY

Wow, there is a lot going on in this story (not to mention everyone’s experiences in the past). It sucks, but there are a lot of lessons in here.

First of all: insurance, law, and life are not perfect and fair systems. We few innocent people in the world are going to be continually screwed by the society we live in. It is a byproduct of our civilization. If you don’t like it, then good; go change it. But don’t wine, we all have sh!t stories too.

Second: Read details and take notes (even recordings) of what is involved in insurance. I work for the insurance agency of a local bank (yes insurance at a bank) and I’ve seen it from both points of view: insureds that are screwed over and insureds that do the screwing. Your only defense is to know not trust or assume.

Third: Police suck. They have the worst job in the world for the worst pay. As individuals they are fine, upstanding, moral, and intelligent. As an organization, they are lazy, incompetent, lack solidarity, and borderline criminal. Don’t trust the department. (If you are a cop, please note that I hold you as individual in the highest regard, but your industry -just like the insurance industry that I am apart of- has many flaws.)

Lastly (and I could go on): Lawyers are only as good as you are. There are very few out there that can solve a problem that doesn’t already have some precedent set that they recently defended/prosecuted or read about. In this case, the best solution is going to be having a lawyer write a simple letter on their stationary to the insurance company and agency (two separate entities remember) explaining why you deserve the loss amount minus the deductible. This will cost you probably another $500 or so dollars but can be easily done and will have probably great results.

~DB

P.S.: I hate that the industry that I am apart of has such a bad reputation. I’d leave, but there would then be fewer people who actually want to change it around…

-- He said wood...http://hickbyassociation.blogspot.com/

Jim and Deputy Dawg, sadly, homeowners insurance does not cover property that is used for a business, even if that property is used out of your home. I.e. – woodworking tools used for your woodworking business in your home shop are not covered. The shop it self may be covered, if it’s attached to the house or a separate building listed on the deed, but the tools aren’t. My dad ran into this problem when his shop burned to the ground a few years back. His 20×20 shop was covered because it was listed on the deed, but since his tools were used for his business, he needed a different policy to cover them. Insurance is government required highway robbery, you’re required to have it, but the companies can deny your claims.

-- "At its best, life is completely unpredictable." - Christopher Walken

Ask you agent about your homeowners policy MIGHT provide for coverage for items stored at another location. Mine does and I was able to recover $500. of a $1500.00 loss when the same thing happened last year.

-- RTB. "dumb animals are not stupid they simply can't talk "

In my experience insurance sompanies do everything within their power to try to get out of paying. I would sue the sales team they promised you you were covered they made a mistake so they are surely insured for giving wrong information to customers so it should be easy for them to pay up.sorry to hear of your problems.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

On the brighter side, Deduct the loss from your 2009 1040:-))

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

It was a different case with me but something similar happed to me a few months back. Instead of a thief it was wind or tornado. We paid a decent rate to get our deductible to about 250 on damage. We had damage to our roof and the shingles were off the roof in a large amount,deposited across about 2 acres behind my house. We contacted our insurance and a roofer. It was going to be the same cost for shingles or tin. The labor was higher on shingles and cheaper on shingles VS. higher tin and cheaper labor costs. So we went with tin. The adjustor only wanted to pay about half of the cost. To make a long story short my wife called the adjustor and told him our policy should cover all but the 250 bucks deduction. She also said she was going to call the state office over insurance, I think it is the commerce dividsion here in TN. Well a few days later we get a check for the rest they were suppose to pay and a apology. Anway go over their head and see where you go and let them know you will check with the state commerce as well. Let them know your salesman promised you that your tools would be covered and that if they don’t pay you consider it fraud and will file aa complaint.

Thanks again for all the great advice…putting in it to play…willy3486, I’ am going to let them know that I AM going to file a complaint with the dept of Commerce and Insurance, the BBB and the local chambers they are involved with..thanks for the advice… will keep you updated and will post he letter when it is back from the lawyers….
Todd

-- Todd, Oak Ridge, TN, Hello my name is Todd and I'm a Toolholic, I bought my last tool 10 days, no 4 days, oh heck I bought a tool on the way here! †

Man, I always figured it’s not “if” but “when”...

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Meeting with Lawyer next week to send out “THE LETTER”....will keep you updqated as to what, if anything happens…

-- Todd, Oak Ridge, TN, Hello my name is Todd and I'm a Toolholic, I bought my last tool 10 days, no 4 days, oh heck I bought a tool on the way here! †

Best of luck Todd.

-- I will just keep doing it till I get it right.

I had some personal property stolen out of my truck parked in front of my house. I pay extra to have “replacement” coverage on my homeowners insurance. The insurance company would only offer me a drop in the bucket for the stolen items unless I could prove I had them before they were stolen. What they wanted was a photograph of me with the items. Fortunately for me, I happened to have them. Because of that, every few months my wife goes through the house and makes a video to put in the safe deposit box. And by the way, my claim for the stolen items was around $1000 and my premium went up $600 per year. It was the only claim I had in 25 years. Of course no other company will talk to you if you’ve had a claim in the past 3 years.

-- Don, Pittsburgh

DannyBoy – I really like you, and enjoy your posts, so please don’t take this the wrong way … I’m not angry at you, I’m angry at the system that is supposed to protect us when we are vulnerable, and instead kicks us when we are down (insurance, legal, law enforcement).

As such, I have to disagree with some of your points:

First – You suggest making a change instead of whining. Got any suggestions on how? Usually when someone has a claim, and has it turned down, they are hurting financially, e.g. can’t work because tools were stolen, so can’t afford to replace the tools or to pay the utility bills. How can that person afford to go up against an industry that has as much money as the oil industry and as much morals as the legal industry? Appeal to the government beauracracy that is supposed to regulate the insurace industry? That won’t work – they’re totally ineffectual and don’t give a crap. Seek the help of an attorney? That won’t work – we’ve already established that there’s no money for the attorney to get their hands on. Write your congressman? That won’t work – their staff will just send a form letter thanking you for your interest in the subject. So how? In my experience the only satisfaction available is a little bit of whining.

Second – knowing your policy doesn’t do any good. I read and re-read my business policy and got clarification from my agent on what I didn’t understand (which was a lot of it, since policies are clearly written by attorneys). But when my shop burned to the ground and I made a claim, the insurance company didn’t “interpret” the policy in the same way as my agent had. And the regulatory agency says it’s the responsibility of the insurance company to “interpret” the policy.

Third – I know a couple of cops who are good, upstanding men in and out of uniform, and I applaud them. But every bully I knew growing up is now a cop or a high school wrestling coach. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.

Fourth – Well, we agree on lawyers – very few are interested in justice, most are just interested in collecting fees (on what planet does it cost $2.50 a page to make photocopies? or $500 to write a couple of letters?).

I sincerely hope you can affect change from within the industry, because I’m pretty sure those of us on the outside don’t have the clout to make any difference.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

Ok i don’t know if this has been gone over but did you try your auto insurer it sounds silly but i had an uncle get a bunch of tools stolen once and he went threw allot of what your going threw and they were ultimately covered buy his auto insurance. even tho the tools were stolen from his garage.

-- I buy tools so i can make more money,so ican buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tool, so I can work more

Good point, doyoulikegumwood. Had a relative obtain coverage for several household and recreational items stolen from their station-wagon. That was several years ago, but it’s worth a shot. BTKS

Peter, nice summation. Pretty well says it all. When you study stocks and financial markets, you soon get the idea the cards are pretty well stacked against “Joe Blow, average guy”. What does that have to do with insurance compaines? They are major players in who has the GOLD. We all know the golden rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules. With out gold, you don’t win elections.

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

Sorry that it has been so long since I updated this issue….
no response from the letter the lawyer sent out….not a real big surprise…..

not sure what, if anything, I can do now except file the complaints….

I did have one other idea…...this worked for a guy I know that got a real lemon for a van about 15 years ago….he got the problem fixed ASAP after this type of ad came out…...lawyer tells me that I have got to be VERY careful when doing this…....even though I am telling the truth if they decide to come after me for slander/liable and THEY lie in court I may be held in the wrong

here is the copy of the ad I want to run in the local part once per qtr. for a year.

CONSUMER WARNING:
RE: INSURANCE SERVICE GROUP
Of Oak Ridge, TN
MISREPRESENTATION

WARNING CONTRACTORS:
If you have purchased a Builders Risk insurance policy from Insurance Service Group of Oak Ridge and were told that you have insurance coverage for your tools you were misled.

I purchased a Builders Risk policy in 2005, at the time I asked my agent, Connie Quenner, if I had any tool coverage, as that was important to me at the time, and was told that I had a $1,000 deductible and up to $20,000 in coverage for my tools. When I had a jobsite recently broken into and most all of my tools stolen I talked with my agent and she confirmed that I had tool coverage. Later in the day I got a call from the insurance company and was told I DID NOT have any tool coverage and that my loss would not be covered. I went to Insurance Serve Group’s office in person to talk with Connie Qeuner and was told she was at lunch and was helped by another agent, Kristina Stooksberry , I explained that I had a theft of my tools, told her the policy I have and told her it was my understanding that I had a $1,000 deductible and up to $20,000 in coverage for my tools and once again I was told that I HAD coverage.

In talking with the president of Insurance Service Group, Frank Bealer, about the actions of his agents he said that there was nothing he was going to do to correct the situation. They have insurance, Errors and Omissions insurance, to put a claim in to get me the money I rightfully believe I’m owed, Mr. Bealer refused.

Not many people want to hire a carpenter without any tools.

So buyer beware when it comes to Mr. Bealer and his agents at Insurance Service Group.
Todd R. Thomas
Thomas Construction
Oak Ridge, TN

So what do you think????

-- Todd, Oak Ridge, TN, Hello my name is Todd and I'm a Toolholic, I bought my last tool 10 days, no 4 days, oh heck I bought a tool on the way here! †

the way i see it, those are the facts….its how it happened and its who it happened with….they are flat out wrong….im really sorry for your loss…wish i could help..maybe you should get oprah’s attention….har…....or montel…is there anything out there for a small business….a grant of some kind…hope things look up and soon.

-- The Grizzone

I started with my present employer in 2003, I do field service on cranes and hoists. The company supplies my truck and nothing else. In 2005 it was broken into and I lost everything on it, about $8500 because they couldn’t get into the gang box where all the heavy power tools are. Found out then that the company did not have insurance to cover any tools and they don’t reimburse for lost tools. They handed me a paper stating these facts with a list of insurance companies that sell policies to people like me, they just said they forgot to give me a copy when I started there. They told me my H.O. should cover my tools, but they wont on a company vehicle.

-- Dan-- Info for all @ http://www.hoistman.com

This doesn’t help the situation you’re in, but just for “next time” – - -

I have all my tools marked/engraved “Stolen from Don Butler”.
Since I started the practice I have had NOTHING stolen.
Before that it was common practice to lose tools from time to time.
Imagine the disturbance when the cowardly thief goes to sell stuff already ID’d as STOLEN?
Of course that doesn’t begin to cover what should be done.
Keep receipts and make photos of everything.
No, everything.
Place special ID marks in hidden places. These can include things like your driver’s licence number.
Watch flea markets. They’re a very great outlet for stolen goods. Ebay is another. If I found an Ebay dealer with a list of tools that matched the list I lost, I think that would be a large red flag.
I agree with the remarks about insurance. There is almost no other industry that makes so much money misleading its customers about the service they purport to sell.
Put the money in a special account and self insure.
Police have what they regard as too many “more important” tasks to be bothered by the loss of a tradesman’s business. If they took the tools at gunpoint they might be more interested.

d

-- If a man says something in the forest and there's no woman to hear it, is he still wrong?

Don has some good advice. MARK EVERYTHING. as far as the insurance company…SUE THEM !!!!! Different circumstance totally…but I got screwed over by a insurance company once big time…I was hurt and in the hospital…and they just stopped paying…when we called and asked what the hell was going on…they said “Their doctors (the insurance docs) came to the conclusion that I was not that hurt and could work”...by the way, I had 7 surgery’s over this injury.

Anyways, I got a insurance lawyer to take the case…not a ambulance chaser …but a good honest law firm…they looked at everything and said “This is a slam dunk…will never go to court and they will pay”...sure enough, about 6 months later they settled out of court for everything I asked for.

When I asked my lawyer why….he said “They knew they were in the wrong…and if it went to court they would pay even more” I asked him if they knew they were wrong…and would lose…then why did they screw me over in the first place ? He said “Because 99 out of 100 people that they screw over think they can never win against the BIG insurance companys…and just go away….and even when the 1 out of 100 fights back and wins…they still have won because of the 99 who did not fight back”

-- Don S.E. OK

Thank you Don K. something to remember…

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

I agree with everyone who says ” call the state dept. of insurance” (whatever office it may be). My father-in-law worked in that capacity in FL, and anytime I had an issue with insurance, I would call him, he would call them, they would call me asking “where can we send this check , and for how much?”. If an insurance company is investigated by the state, it shuts them down completely until the investigation is done! (no phones, no computers, no access to files, effectively ruining the agency)

-- National Sarcasm Society; Like we Need your Support