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getting gloss from semi-gloss water based poly

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Forum topic by masrapido posted 06-06-2009 07:29 PM 1691 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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masrapido

15 posts in 2753 days


06-06-2009 07:29 PM

Can I let my semi-gloss poly sit for a long time, so that the flattening agents settle, and not mix it before use and expect to get a similar effect to gloss? Does this stuff really need to be mixed?

I’m using General Finishes High Performance water based poly, but I’m running out of gloss, and have some semi-gloss sitting around I’d like to use. In the end I’d like to get as gloss a finish as possible.


14 replies so far

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

115202 posts in 3043 days


#1 posted 06-06-2009 07:38 PM

Hey
I’m not sure about that one it seems you may need to be mixed for other reasons. You might send a PM to Charles Neil and ask him ,he’s a top finishing guru that uses and promotes General Finishes products, along with being a master craftsman. He also has a web site that you can e mail him through.

http://charlesneilwoodworking.com/

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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masrapido

15 posts in 2753 days


#2 posted 06-06-2009 08:01 PM

Thanks! I’ll do that.

View Milo's profile

Milo

869 posts in 2785 days


#3 posted 06-06-2009 10:28 PM

masrapido,

In most water based finishes that are not gloss (ie semi or flat) they are that way because they have a flattening agent in the finish to dull it. They are, in effect, gloss finish made dull. This is why semi gloss and flat says “Mix well before use”.

IF your semi-gloss has been sitting around long enough (even at the store), the filling agent (and for the life of me I can’t remember what it is called right now) may very well have fallen out of supension and is sitting at the bottom of you jug or can. If you care very careful you can pour off the top and get a pretty decent gloss.

Poor mans way of getting gloss when semi is on sale ;-).

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

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masrapido

15 posts in 2753 days


#4 posted 06-06-2009 10:36 PM

Milo, have you done this before? The thrust of my post is that I had assumed this would work, based on my understanding of the difference between gloss and non-gloss water based finishes (which you so elequently stated). The point of my question though is that I’m concerned that by not mixing and skimming just off the top, I will be filtering out some other important solvent or solids from the mixture that will result in improper drying/leveling/curing.

View Myron Wooley's profile

Myron Wooley

226 posts in 3362 days


#5 posted 06-06-2009 11:28 PM

It’s better to buy the sheen that you want and stir it properly. The flatting agent is not the only material that settles.
If you want a gloss sheen and you’re almost out of gloss material, then use the semigloss first, and spray the gloss last as a topcoat.

-- The days are long and the years are short...

View Milo's profile

Milo

869 posts in 2785 days


#6 posted 06-07-2009 12:17 AM

I’ve done all SORTS of insane things with finishes.

Have you sprayed anything yet?

Wellll, being the fly by the seat of my pants kind of guy I am, and assuming you have your “sat around for a while” semi-gloss available, you could always pour both your gloss and semi-gloss into a single container and mix. Sorta a Gloss by Semi-Gloss-Gloss look.

Make SURE you don’t mismatch your finish types!

btw, somehow, when I wrote my original note, my bipolar disorder must have kicked in and I complete misread your orginal note. Sorry if I re-stated it like you didn’t know about Water Based Finishes.

You can always do a test on some scrap and you should have a decent idea if it’s going to work within 48 hours or so.

Ah, and Myron! I see we have an FM in the house! Don’t let Memphis catch you giving out free advice or Brent might frown at you…. ;-)

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

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Myron Wooley

226 posts in 3362 days


#7 posted 06-07-2009 01:07 AM

My advice isn’t free. It cost me a bundle… ;-)

I already have a bit of a rabblerouser reputation with the FM folks. Another frown or two won’t make much difference!

-- The days are long and the years are short...

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1878 posts in 3027 days


#8 posted 06-07-2009 02:13 AM

I have been using semi-gloss as gloss by not stirring it with good success. The problem I have is that I don’t use much at any one time, and by the time I have used a half gallon enough solvent has evaporated to make the remaining amount too thick. Also have problems at that point with the top surface skimming over. It’s a hassle to try to thin it down by adding mineral spirits because you have to filter it, then wait for the flattening fillers to settle out again.

I was at a Sherman Williams store last week and they had gloss PU in quart containers, so that is what I will be using in the future. Even though it costs more (in $/oz) I will save in the long run because I won’t end up discarding unused material. Most of the stores I frequent never have gloss PU on the shelf. If I ever find some I’ll buy a gallon and break it down into quarts to keep the solvent from evaporating during use.

-- Joe

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

9447 posts in 3518 days


#9 posted 06-07-2009 02:18 AM

If you squirted some of that Air… like Bloxygen, it would stop that from happening and your solution would remain FRESH all the time!

It works!

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1878 posts in 3027 days


#10 posted 06-07-2009 02:28 AM

Thanks, Joe
I have seen it advertised but didn’t think it would work.

-- Joe

View wildfire's profile

wildfire

24 posts in 2776 days


#11 posted 06-07-2009 04:23 AM

Not a pro by any means, but I used semi-gloss on a table I worked months refinishing and it ended up looking dull and had to re-sand everything and use a high gloss just to maintain the beauty of the walnut. Won’t go that road again!

-- If you don't try you will never know if you can!

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masrapido

15 posts in 2753 days


#12 posted 06-07-2009 07:02 AM

Wildfire, I had the same experience. Mine was maple veneer, not walnut, but I started with semi-gloss and have really learned a lesson: Never ever use anything but gloss. You can always kill the sheen of gloss to whatever degree you wish, but you cannot typically do the reverse!

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3336 days


#13 posted 06-07-2009 04:17 PM

water based finishes , the resins are held in supension, not dissolved like solvent…the fumed silica, that is used as a flattening agent doesnt settle out as much as it does in a solvent..in solvent based the flattner will settle out completely to the bottom, not so in waterbased….i agree use the sheen you want….however you can get the gloss, but it will require rubbing the finish to a high sheen, the settling thing wont do it…and even then , it will not be as clear and defined as using a gloss from the start…

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

9447 posts in 3518 days


#14 posted 06-07-2009 07:16 PM

sh

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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