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Tinting QSWO to match

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Forum topic by CharlesA posted 03-08-2015 05:04 PM 1327 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


03-08-2015 05:04 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question finishing oak qswo

I’m building something out of QSWO and need to match the color to the existing furniture. I’ve looked over my copy of Charles Neil’s Finishing: Simply Put and looked at a number of web resources.

So, I’m not interested in ammonia fuming or any other technique that gives QSWO “the best” color. Nor am I interested in a finish that tries to pop the grain in an extreme way.

I know computer images don’t always give accurate color, but this is the color I’m looking for:

I experimented with what I had on hand, from left to right: GF New Pine Gel, GF Prairie Wheat Gel, Danish Golden Oak with Transtint Vintage Maple on Top, Vintage Maple Only, Danish Golden Oak, Danish Natural.

The color is not quite right on this pic, but the Prairie Wheat Gel is almost exactly the right color. However, I don’t really want to use Gel Stain, and even though I’m not trying to pop the rays in the QSWO, they are almost rendered invisible with the Gel Stain. My instinct is to get some Amber and Honey Amber Transtint and mix with the others I have until I come up with a good color. However, I was surprised that the QSWO didn’t seem to color much from the Vintage Maple dye. I generally prefer dye to pigment stain, but I’m open to what will work best.

Love to hear any experienced thoughts.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson


15 replies so far

View bobkberg's profile

bobkberg

420 posts in 2534 days


#1 posted 03-08-2015 06:07 PM

Have you considered looking at aniline dyes? I just did a Google search for “aniline dye color chart” and there’s a pretty good variety out there.

-- Bob www.singularengineering.com - A sideline, not how I earn a living

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CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#2 posted 03-08-2015 06:16 PM

I have had good luck with Transtint, which is an acidic dye. What is the advantage of aniline over Transtint?

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#3 posted 03-08-2015 09:37 PM

After looking around a bit more, going to try some combination of Transtint Golden Brown and Honey Amber and see if I can get the Right color. Will then probably try SealCoat over that, and then use GF waterborne poly over that (this will need to have a durable finish.

I’m not planning on filling the grain or doing a pigment stain on top of the shellac and then sanding a bit as I’m not trying to pop the rays.

Still listening to suggestions.

Charles

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4853 posts in 2274 days


#4 posted 03-08-2015 09:44 PM

From your criteria, it sounds like you want a liquid stain with fairly high solid content. Stains in that category also have dyes in them, but in lower quantity. Try Varathane, Rodda, or Cabbot brand oil based stains. If you can find one of these brands in your area, I think you will like it. They are easy to work with, and do not have problems with obtaining an even color like gel stains do.
I have found gel stains that I liked the color of (like GF Antique Walnut), but I don’t like gel stains on large projects. So I simply find a matching color in a liquid stain from Varathane, Rodda, or Cabbot.
Good luck with it.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#5 posted 03-08-2015 09:48 PM

Thanks, Willie. For my edification, why do I want a pigment stain instead of using a dye (I’m gathering that you are suggesting a pigment stain that also contains dye, right?)?

Also, General Finishes is the easiest for me to acquire locally, and I had good luck with their very dark Spiced Walnut on a piece of Walnut. Is there a reason you suggest Varathane or Cabbot instead?

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

14940 posts in 2151 days


#6 posted 03-09-2015 12:55 AM

Charles, What does it look like with just BLO/MS rubbed in well? That may darken it just enough. Made a perfect match in our kitchen when I needed to match new oak with 25 year old oak. I tried dyes and stains to no avail and then a friend suggested the BLO. WAY too simple!

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

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CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#7 posted 03-09-2015 01:12 AM

Thanks. Tried MS—too blond. Also tried Charles Neil’s baking soda trick—too grey.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

2566 posts in 1718 days


#8 posted 03-09-2015 01:24 AM

Charles, based on the color I see on my screen, you might try mixing various proportions of Reddish Brown and Dark Vintage Maple ( 1/4 RB 8ml/oz H2O and 3/4 DVM 8ml/oz H20). IIRC, that is what I used on this piece. I can’t be certain right now because I am not home with my project notebook. HTH

-- Art

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

14940 posts in 2151 days


#9 posted 03-09-2015 01:32 AM



Thanks. Tried MS—too blond. Also tried Charles Neil s baking soda trick—too grey.

- CharlesA

MS? or BLO/MS? The BLO will impart more color.

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

View Bluepine38's profile

Bluepine38

3341 posts in 2546 days


#10 posted 03-09-2015 04:45 PM

Rockler and others sell powdered wood dyes that you mix with water, I have used it with QSWO with
no problem.

-- As ever, Gus-the 77 yr young apprentice carpenter

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1056 posts in 1450 days


#11 posted 03-09-2015 08:47 PM

Are you using the GF WB dyes or a pigment stain – not clear from the posts. It may be the lighting, but the colors appear to have a lot of red in them, but your mentioning more brown/yellow colors. Using a GF dye, which has a binder base in it, with Transtint dyes to adjust the color, would be my approach if I wanted to stay with a GF product obtained locally. I find using a dye stain base with some binder in it, and a relative long open time (vs water or alcohol or shellac) the best for getting the base color down, and then toning with shellac for final color and evening color out. I prefer Target WR4000 stain base, but you wanted something available locally.

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CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#12 posted 03-09-2015 10:26 PM

The current colors are just from what I had on hand. I haven’t picked up more Transtint or Stain.

One can mix techniques, of course, but I’m trying to figure out the advantages/disadvantages of a dye stain (or dye) vs. pigment stain in this particular application. I’ll pick up a bit of each when I get back home at the end of the week and see what they look like side by side.

I’m going to end up spending $100 on stain and dye before I find the right color combo . . .

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#13 posted 03-14-2015 07:13 PM

I’ll check my sample with the match tomorrow, but after about 20 combinations, I think I have it just about down, one of two options, depending on which is closer.

I dyed it first. I started with about a 3-1 medium brown Transtint to Honey Amber. That was too golden, so I added a bit of GF Cinnamon Dye stain. That worked pretty well.

Next I used some Bullseye shellac sealer.

Then I topped it with GF Oil stain, applied and then wiped off. Depending on the tint, I’ll go with either Candlelite (more brown) or Warm Cherry (just a hint more red).

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#14 posted 03-15-2015 04:13 PM

looks like GF cinnamon or perhaps the vintage cherry dye. you may have to dilute a little , I’m thinking the cinnamon

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#15 posted 03-15-2015 10:54 PM

I always have a hard time getting photos to display the color accurately. Took in my sample board to compare today, and the addition of the cinnamon made it too red. Turns out that the closest match was the 2/1 med brown/Honey Amber with the candlelite oil stain wiped on/wiped off. The GF Early American Water based stain was actually quite close.

Thanks everyone.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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