Buying New Tablesaw - Little Help?

the powermatic is a proven quality machine – I personally not a big fan of the black non-see-through blade guard though. the accufence will be superb. I’m also not a big fan of the motor hanging in the back, and the lack of riving knife – although you could probably mount an aftermarket riving knife.

I personally own the Ridgid R4511 and am 100% happy with the purchase – for the price it cant be beaten. it has plenty of power, ok fence – I’ve seen better, but also worse. riving knife. GREAT mobile base built in. very good dust control, easy to use controls, and preset stops. all in all – I’d highly recommend it – and I got it for 50% of what you would get the powermatic for.

of the ones you mentioned – those are the 2 winners in my mind.. it boils down to your personal choice. both will give you good performance.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I mostly gave up on table saw upgrades for a Festool TS75, I have yet to get the EZ-Smart system but plan to as soon as I can afford it. Already I am very pleased with the results, safer cuts, no burn marks. Currently it is a little slower when doing repeated operations and rip cuts over 6 feet in length require that I move the track, which can leave a little ridge on the cut (cleans up with a pass over the jointer) but my old table saw just sits there gathering dust. Excellent dust extraction on the new saw is another great thing. I have extreme space issues too, so that’s another plus. And portable. In the realm of planers and jointers I have the Ridgid 13” thickness planer and besides the one time I left the dust port attachment off which engages the cutter head lock and burned up a belt, it’s been doing a great job, couple thousand board feet sent through it and still going strong. I have the Ridgid 6” jointer and it’s great too. Ok enough of being a shill for Festool for today. Oh it might help to mention that I made a torsion box table for the saw with T-track so that it lets me use my Incra miter gauge, which has been an absolute joy to own. I am really impressed with all my Incra accessories. Maybe this might give a little different tack on the standard “I need a monster table saw” idea.

-- Ooo, er.

A jointer and planer are essential for sure – but the table saw is something you will be spending a lot of time behind . As you learn woodworking the table saw is capable of achieving an amazing number of functions. I bought my first table saw about 2 years ago and found that I am now outgrowing it rapidly. Fortunately, I made it the most expensive piece of equipment in my shop and have never regretted that day. Keep researching. Do a lot of reading, stay away from salesmen and don’t discount what a combination machine might do for your needs.

I just went through the same process. I had a craftsman direct drive TS. I went with the Ridgid 4511. I could not find anything close for the price. I also got a 15% discount as Lowes was having a sale at the time and HD matched their sale. I am very happy with the 4511. Once you get it assembled and the blade aligned properly it works great.There is a lot of information on the ridgid web site forum.

-- Flarda - "If you are not confused, you are probably not paying attention".

For most woodworkers a table saw is the heart of their shop. It is the tool that is used more than any other. I agree with Rob’s advice here and would like to add that, with regards to buying tools, I have found it is better to “cry once when you buy a tool rather than the 1000 times you have to use it”. The Powermatic saw is a real workhorse and should last you for many years. You will definately get your money’s worth from this saw.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

you probably won’t go wrong with the models you mentioned. i can vouch for the grizzly 1023 3ph cabinet saw. great saw for the money. one note for granite tops is that you can’t use magnetic featherboards and other magnetic accessories. while not a deal killer for some, nowadays, i can’t live without them. if i had the cash, i’d trade up to a cast iron router table top just to use the mag stuff.

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

Hey Jim
This is a subject frequently broached. I’ve seen the Ridgid model before the granite model came out an it’s fence was great smooth and effortless and locked well. But I’m not a fan of granite because I can’t use my magnetic feather boards. I know Don had one of the Ridgids for sale. As far as grizzly they usually get about 98 percent in favor of Grizzly and the usual suspects that don’t like anything against when the subject has come up on LJs. I’m in the Go Grizzly group because I’ve had nothing but positive results with may Grizzly tools

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

Don’t go with the Rigid.
Go with the Powermatic or the Delta Unisaw. You need to have a good quality pc. of equipement that will last for many years.
I have the Delta left tilt unisaw w/50” Biesemeyer and it’s been a great saw, never have had any problems with it. ;)

The table saw is the heart of my shop, I upgraded from the Bosch 4000 to a 3 ph Jet. I found it on Craigslist for 500 bucks, with the 52 inch Biesemeyer fench and the extended rails and table. It passes the “nickel” test. Loading the 600 lb saw into the pickup truck was another story. I have seen many Unisaws, Jet, and Powermatic on craigslist.

-- Life is to short to own an ugly boat.

As far as your jointer/planer options go, I wouldn’t get the Jet combo machine. I checked it out up close a couple weeks ago and it looks like a real POS. I am really happy with my Craftsman Pro Hybrid Table saw. And it’s affordable. I posted a review a while back.

-- Tony, Ohio

While I would like to get a Unisaw – it’s not an option. It’s $3k for the new one and $2k for the old one (new, and while Craigslist can be great… I tend to be nice to my machines – too many I’ve gone to look at have been neglected) – plus the cost of adding 220v to the garage – or the ire of my lovely bride when I ran the extension cord to the laundry room ;>).

bentlyj, could you expand on your objection to the Ridgid?

-- Jim

I saw the Ridgid Granite top at the recent Houston Wood Show. Although I was impressed with the saw overall, especially the cabinet, I was not sure about the granite top. I just took up this ‘hobby’ about a 1.5 year ago. I bought the Ridgid TS3650 and have to say that I am VERY pleased with it. It has been great, done everything I have asked it do, and more. My son in law has a Grizzly and he is pleased with it. Although he has said he wishes his top was as large as mine and all cast like mine. I checked out most other Table saws in the 500-600 range and found the Ridgid TS3650 to get the best reviews. And, it has a LIFETIME warranty.

-- Randy, Allen Texas

Jim, the biggest reason is that I would rather invest a little more money and get a good sturdy cabinet saw that will last many more years than the Rigid. I also don’t like the granite tops, just a gimmick in my opinion, I would rather have the heavy cast iron.
I have 2 Delta Unisaws that have been problem free, 1 is over fifteen years old and the other is over 10 years old. The only problem I have ever had was with the older one which burned up a motor the first year I had it. Delta replaced the motor under warranty and I have never had another problem with it. The most I have ever had to do was put on some new belts. They both still pass the nickle test even though I don’t put much into that. To me the service that I have had with these saws are well worth the extra money.
I have my own business and often forget that a lot of people here are just doing it as a hobby, but for me these tools are abused on a daily basis.

Jim, I was debating the same scenario 3 years. I had a craftsman joiner and table saw, the truth is everything i owned was craftsman. Being a General Contractor I used these tools for both work and my hobby. I was constantly struggling with accuracy and set up. I dreamed of quality tools and what i could do. As I was researching Delta, Jet Powermatic, etc. I came across an article by Norm Abram when a person in my position asked about different saws and was on a budget. Norm simply said, to him a used Unisaw is better than any new saw. I began the search. within 30 days I found a Delta unisaw 220 v. 5hp with every possible accessory for $1,100.00 and a Jet Joiner for $375.00. All are in absolutely mint condition. The original price foe the tools and accessories where $ 3300.00. Now you may get luckier than me, regardless I would save my pennies, work a part time job or whatever it takes to get the quality tools. They do make a difference. Good luck on your quest

-- I know all about hard work. It's that R & R I need to learn

Jim, I had the same choice a few months back. I looked hard at the 64A, Ridgid, and Delta. In the end I based my choice on the amount of time I get to spend in my shop and also my current skill level.

I went with the R4511 as it was half what the 64A was, has a lifetime warranty, and it’s a nice upgrade for me coming from an old craftsman TS. It may be awhile before or if I outgrow the R4511. Also I should mention the granite is not a concern for me because I use it almost always for ripping and my RAS for crosscutting. If I did not have the RAS and was using the miter a lot I would have gone with a cast top.

The hybrid cabinet or cabinet design and mobile base are great if space is a consideration. A cab design will move right up to the wall and out of the way so much better than a contractor saw.

There are pro’s and con’s to every machine you are looking at, as well as opinions, but the LJ’s are right in that the TS is the heart of most of our shops, so get one with all the features you want or think you need so you will love it every time you turn it on.

Its a big confidence booster when you have the right tool for the work you are doing.

Many thanks to all of you. I’ll let you know what I decide to do, and I’ll write a review of what I get. While it hasn’t cleared up my decision, it has narrowed it down a little.

-- Jim

The Powermatic is the only contractor saw you mentioned with a traditional outboard motor and all the disadvantages of that design. It also utilizes connecting rods between the trunnion brackets that ultimately connect to that heavy motor cantilevered off the back, which can really pose some alignment issues. Even thought the PM is a more prestigious brand than the others, this is really just a 60 year old design that’s made in Taiwan, and is very similar to the Grizzly G0444Z/G0576, Delta 36-980, and General International 50-185….good saws within this classification, but in your price all represent among the poorer values in your price range IMHO.

The Griz G0661 is listed as a contractor saw, but it has an internally housed motor and a one-piece cast arbor carriage between the trunnion brackets, plus it has a riving knife. The 22124 is a hybrid format (internal motor) with cabinet mounted trunnions, and a Biesemeyer fence, and is on sale for $800 with their Buy Miore Get More 20% promotion….very well proven saw. Both have several design advantages over the PM.

The Grizzly 1023SL 3hp industrial cabinet saw is on sale for $1075 shipped, and is simply a difference class of saw, but does require 220v operation….very worthy of consideration and is more saw than the others.

There is an aftermarket riving knife called a “BORK” available for the Grizzly 1023SL and the 22124….

Here’s a look at the trunnion system of a Delta 36-980, which is very similar to the PM64s’:

Here’s a look at the trunnion system of the 22124:

And here’s a look at the trunnions of the G1023SL (check Grizzly’s website for a look at the G0661 innerds):

Buy more saw, don’t buy the brand name…

I watched a guy buy a Hitachi benchtop tablesaw tonight at Lowes, what a pity.

Search Craigslist. For $500 or so you can find a very nice Contractors Saw. For $1000 you can get yourself that $3000 Unisaw if you are patient.

Just did a quick search on the Dallas/Fort Worth Criagslist and found these:
General Tablesaw for $1000
Delta 36-979 contractor table saw for $550
“Laguna Platinum 10” for $1525
Rigid TS3650 Table Saw for $400

Quite a selection of used saws, all posted in the last two days. Good luck.

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

I like the new general 650 TS. A very nice saw. I have the old one and love it but the new one has the raving knife…

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

I’ve already contacted the guy about the Ridgid. I didn’t see the general, but a 3hp cab saw will add $200 for 220v in the garage. Still, it’s worth looking at, and I think I will be patient. I am going to get the planer and jointer for now.

-- Jim

i bought a left tilt unisaw , and never looked back .
it works everytime ,
i put a bunch of base cabs behind it ,
and can cut anything i need .
50”besmyer fence .
it will last my life , and then some !
leaving me more time and freedom to work .
don’t get caught up in the money ,
later when you want to upgrade ,
things will be more expensive ,
buy good now and save !

-- david ,new mexico ,allheart

Jim, your opinion on the 52in is dead on. Once you have it you’ll wonder how you worked without it. Patron’s advice is also dead on. Why spend more time and money in future upgrades, get what you need or just want upfront and have it forever. Just my most humble opinion.
Good luck and enjoy whatever you get, remember it’s a hobby, it should be enjoyable.
BTKS

200 Bucks to add 220 to the shop will pay for its self in no time. The tools will run cooler and last longer. I ran 100 amp 220 out to the shop and he wire cost me almost 300 bucks.

-- Life is to short to own an ugly boat.

MANY many good saws have been recommended here…and I am not going to say X is better than Y…but I will say that I recently upgraded many pieces in my shop…and bought a new Grizzly G0593 jointer http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Planer/G0453 (I did a review over it on L/J’s) a new Grizzly table saw G0690 http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife/G0690, a new band saw G0513XZ17 http://www.grizzly.com/products/17-Bandsaw-2HP-w-Cast-Iron-Trunnion/G0513X2, and a new Grizzly G0453 15 planer http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Planer/G0453. The planer is the same as the G0453Z http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-3-HP-220V-Planer-with-Spiral-Cutterhead/G0453Z but does not have a spiral cutter head. BUT it had free shipping, and I bought the spiral cutter head separate, this way I saved $200 and got a back up cutter head.

All four of these pieces together cost less than only two pieces from better known name brands. I am MORE than happy with my Grizzly tools. NOT telling you what to buy….but for the money and quality…I have to agree with knotscott….buy more saw, not name brand.

-- Don S.E. OK

For about $1200, you just can’t go wrong with the Grizzly G1023SL cabinet saw (left-tilt). It has been an amazing upgrade from my RIDGID contractor saw and I can’t imagine another cabinet saw that would be much better at more than 3 times what I paid for it.

Jason

Jason is DEAD on about the G1023, it has been their best seller for years. I talked to Grizzly about my G0690 before I ordered it…asking “Them” to tell me what the difference is. The G0690 is nothing but a “re-worked” G1023….with a built in riving knife and much bigger heavier trunnion (As if it need to be bigger, this saw is almost 200 lbs. heavier).As of now…to introduce it…they have the price almost as low as the G1023….after it has been out awhile and word of mouth is out about it…the price is going to shoot up

-- Don S.E. OK