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Forum topic by BigCaah posted 03-01-2015 11:27 PM 2690 views 0 times favorited 35 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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BigCaah

9 posts in 723 days


03-01-2015 11:27 PM

Topic tags/keywords: tablesaw

Hello everyone,

I’ve been lurking here for the past couple months and figured it was about time to post. I will be purchasing my first ever table saw, and could use a push in the right direction! But first off, thanks to all who have written reviews and those who have discussed in previous posts; I have lost lots of sleep dedicated to this noble cause, thanks to you fine folks. Until mid-2013, I had never done any serious woodworking.. power tools used to terrify me.. but I started slow and learned as I went. Up until now all my wood has been cut with a circular saw. As the wife asks for (demands) larger projects, I am discovering that most plans are calling for a table saw to make clean and accurate cuts.

So.. after reading through many posts (Adrock1 posted earlier in February with a VERY similar choice to make), I’ve narrowed my choice down to a few: the Delta 36-725, the Grizzly G0771, and the Grizzly 1023. My garage is currently wired for 110, but could be wired for 220 if needed. Ideally, the saw could be pushed against a wall when not in use; the 10-year plan for our house will have a dedicated shop built in the backyard, but its not in the cards right now.

The Delta looks like a great saw for the price, the local Lowe’s has one in stock, and the money saved could be spent on upgrades for it. I haven’t tried the 20% HF coupon yet, and in the event that they choose not to honor it, the Grizzly G0771 -looks- to be more saw for the price they are asking. I like that the G0771 is closer to a cabinet saw, is compatible with my current setup, and that it will do everything I need it to for the next few years…. but….. in the back of my mind I am hearing, “Buy the best you can for what you need,” and little budgeting would allow me to pick up the 1023. It would require substantially more work to rewire the garage and acquire a mobile base, though everything I hear about it says that it would be the only saw I would need.

Am I overthinking this? I would greatly appreciate any input that could be offered, and look forward to any discussion!

Andrew

-- Andrew


35 replies so far

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knotscott

7225 posts in 2843 days


#1 posted 03-01-2015 11:53 PM

IMHO you’re on the track, and are asking good questions. All three of the saws you mentioned are capable and suitable for what you describe, and have at least the basics covered….full size cast iron table, belt drive induction motor, decent fence. The Delta offers a good bang for the buck and has a fairly good fence. The G0771 adds solid cast wings, cabinet mounted trunnions, and a full cabinet, but may have a slightly lesser fence…haven’t checked it personally. The G1023RL takes you into a completely different category of an industrial cabinet saw….great fence, industrial grade cabinet mounted trunnions, dovetail ways, 3hp motor, full enclosure, solid cast wings…it’s simply a nicer saw to use and is a more substantial saw. You don’t ”need” what the G1023RL offers, but it’s hard to imagine not being delighted with it if the extra cost and 220v doesn’t burden you.

Executive decision time. Either way, be sure to aligned the saw really well, and get a better blade for it.

The ABCs of Table Saws

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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AlaskaGuy

2406 posts in 1777 days


#2 posted 03-02-2015 12:13 AM

IMHO, Delta was recently acquired by Power Equipment Corporation, a subsidiary of Chang Type Industrial Company. Since that time there are been numerous reports across the Internet of lack of parts and service. This may or may not be where they are permanently head. This may be due to the transition set up the new company or maybe this is going to be their business model.

I will avoid buying Delta until I see a positive change in parts and service. I know little about their quality control at this time. Not that I’m not necessarily recommending Grizzly but Grizzly has a track record and you pretty much know where they sand on parts and service which is pretty good.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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firefighterontheside

13529 posts in 1324 days


#3 posted 03-02-2015 12:20 AM

I’ve never seen that 771, but it appears to be the same as the 715 with a lesser fence. Why not go for the 715. That short fence on the 771 would be a deal breaker for me. It appears to have two-piece rails.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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BigCaah

9 posts in 723 days


#4 posted 03-02-2015 12:48 AM

knotscott- Thank you for the link and the feedback on all three saws, it’s good to know that any of the three will be capable! Any recommendations for blade upgrades, and tools for aligning the saw correctly?

AlaskaGuy – I didn’t know that ownership of Delta was changing. Customer service goes a long way in my book, and I’ve heard nothing but good things about Grizzly’s communication and problem resolution.

firefighterontheside – I looked at the 715, but saw that it would need a part to convert from 220 to 110. On paper, the saws look similar enough that I figured I could upgrade the fence on the 771 and still be close to the cost of the 715 without having to rewire if necessary.

-- Andrew

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knotscott

7225 posts in 2843 days


#5 posted 03-02-2015 02:27 AM

The underpinnings are a bit different between the G0771 and G715P (, and the motors are different, so it’s a bit more than just a difference in fences.

Delta ownership changed in January, 2011…it’s not occurring now.

Saw blades

5 cent TS Alignment

Another TS Alignment link

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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alittleoff

296 posts in 744 days


#6 posted 03-02-2015 02:42 AM

I’ve had my Delta 725 now for around 3 months and have to say, I think it will do anything I’ll ever want to do. I build quite a few plant towers that require 4×4 treated timbers. The wood I get around here is just to heavy to work with because most are still saturated with the chemicals. Ive started ripping them down to 3×3 in. making them a lot easier to work with and quite a bit lighter. The saw has give me no trouble at all ripping them down. I don’t run them through like a saw mill does but it cuts them pretty quick. As for the fence, it’s dead on. I really never expected it to be as good as it is. If I were you I’d look long an hard at the delta. About all I can say is buy what you need the first time. If the delta will work for you then think about it. If you need something larger, the grizzly I’ve read about is a great saw. I looked at them before I bought mine, but decided to buy local rather than take a chance of getting a saw and have to return it by truck line. Anyway hope this helps, I know it’s confusing sometimes. I just went through it myself. Another thing I might add is lowes gives you 90 days to try the saw out. If you don’t like it, take it back an get a refund.
Gerald
Gerald

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firefighterontheside

13529 posts in 1324 days


#7 posted 03-02-2015 03:44 AM

To,upgrade the fence on the 771 to the shop fox classic which is what comes with the 715 will cost $275. The part needed with the 715 to run on 120V is $6. Rewiring shouldn’t be too difficult and will save you almost $125. Also if you’re considering upgrading to 240, you could just use the 715 on 240. Unless you feel that if you’re gonna go up to 240V, you might as well have 3 HP. Good luck.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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BigCaah

9 posts in 723 days


#8 posted 03-02-2015 03:48 AM

knotscott – Thank you for the links, I appreciate it! Are the differences between the G0771 and G715P motors and underpinnings something that will have a substantial effect on the functionality of the saw, or are they more ‘enhancing’ it? I.e. the a leather-wrapped and heated steering wheel compared to a standard steering wheel.

alittleoff – I spent a lot of time at Lowe’s yesterday looking at the Delta 725. To my untrained eyes and hands, everything looked and -felt- sturdy. Did you keep the stock fence, or replace it? I didn’t know that Lowe’s had a 90 day return policy, that is very good to know. It might sound strange, but the thing that really bugged me was that no one tried to sell me the saw. Three times a salesman walked by and asked, “Are you guys doing alright?” and kept walking. I don’t know what their training is regarding customers, but I was always taught to get the product into the customer’s hands and try to close.

-- Andrew

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BigCaah

9 posts in 723 days


#9 posted 03-02-2015 03:54 AM

firefighterontheside – Ahh, didn’t know that the part was only $6. Good to know! I’d feel more confident rewiring the saw than I would the garage.. We live in a house that was built in the late 1800s, which has been rewired at least twice. I switched out a couple of porch lights last year; sticking out of the wall for one light were two black, two white, and two green wires, compared to one black, one white, and one green for the other light. Nothing burned down after hooking it all up, but I’m still leery of electricity when it doesn’t match the diagram.

-- Andrew

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ScottinVa

35 posts in 983 days


#10 posted 03-02-2015 04:52 AM

Hi Andrew – congrats on getting a table saw! I got my first one a Craftsman, which was also a mistake, a few years ago. I got rid of it, in favor of a Delta though and have been making dust with it ever since. The table saw is the workhorse of the shop and I think you will find it very useful.

I think if you buy new, you should consider a sawstop, simply due to the safety features. Table saws are relatively dangerous to use and the sawstop does reduce the danger considerably. You seem to be ignoring a great source of bargains though – used saws. My Delta was used as is my bandsaw, compressor, miter saw, etc. – you can often buy more tool than you would otherwise if you are willing to look at the used market. Seeing your profile says you’re in Illinois, I searched and found this, a Powermatic 66 with loads of blades, jigs, etc. etc. in seemingly great shape for $1,200 – and that’s the asking price, so you should be able to get it for less than that.

The other + to buying used is that you don’t take such a huge depreciation hit if you decide you want to sell it. If you buy that saw for $1,100 you can sell it for the same amount for at least a couple years. Try that with the new Delta – no way.

As to setup, check out both Norm Abrams and the Wood Whisperer table saw setup videos on youtube. They really have lots of great info. Your first projects should probably be a couple jigs to maximize the saw’s utility – a crosscut sled is what I recommend you tackle first.

Good luck – Scott

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Rob

704 posts in 2538 days


#11 posted 03-02-2015 05:08 AM


It might sound strange, but the thing that really bugged me was that no one tried to sell me the saw. Three times a salesman walked by and asked, “Are you guys doing alright?” and kept walking. I don t know what their training is regarding customers, but I was always taught to get the product into the customer s hands and try to close.

- BigCaah

My experience with Lowe’s is about the same as with any other big box store. Usually they can’t do much more than read the information on the box or tell you which aisle to look in. On a couple occasions I’ve found someone who was genuinely helpful but that was mostly in locating things or opening packages to make sure the parts I wanted to buy would fit together.

I wouldn’t expect anyone at Lowe’s to necessarily have any training or hands-on experience with a tool unless they happen to own it at home, since they don’t have a showroom area for demonstrating tools. Cripes, they aren’t even allowed to repair the cord on their panel saw and have to wait 3 days for an electrical contractor to come whenever someone cuts it by accident—which seems to happen at least once a week during the summer.

-- Ask an expert or be the expert - http://woodworking.stackexchange.com

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AlaskaGuy

2406 posts in 1777 days


#12 posted 03-02-2015 07:23 AM

It might sound strange, but the thing that really bugged me was that no one tried to sell me the saw. Three times a salesman walked by and asked, “Are you guys doing alright?”

Why would you want someone who knows nothing about table saws try to sell you one?

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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greenacres2

251 posts in 1636 days


#13 posted 03-02-2015 11:40 AM



Seeing your profile says you re in Illinois, I searched and found this, a Powermatic 66 with loads of blades, jigs, etc. etc. in seemingly great shape for $1,200 – and that s the asking price, so you should be able to get it for less than that.

Good luck – Scott

- ScottinVa

I’ve been watching that PM 66 ad. Though not stated, i’m pretty sure it’s a 3 phase machine (“208/240/480 volts”). Not an insurmountable issue, but phase converter would have to be factored in. For the OP, that means adding a 240 volt circuit plus a converter. Still looks like a fine deal on that saw to me—my bank and bride would disagree right now!!

earl

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7225 posts in 2843 days


#14 posted 03-02-2015 12:03 PM


knotscott – Thank you for the links, I appreciate it! Are the differences between the G0771 and G715P motors and underpinnings something that will have a substantial effect on the functionality of the saw, or are they more enhancing it?
...
- BigCaah

The underpinnings are similarly robust between the G0771 and G0715P (heavy duty, but not industrial grade), but the G0771 attaches it’s trunnion brackets to the crossbrace of the cabinet instead of the table top…that makes it easier to reach and easier to align. You’ll hear the term “cabinet mounted trunnions” and “table mounted trunnions” frequently when comparing table saws. Generally, cabinet mounted trunnions are more desirable, but it’s become somewhat of a sales pitch. In recent decades most cabinet mounted trunnions featured the big heavy duty yoke style construction with huge trunnion brackets spanning across the width of the cabinet (the old Delta Unisaw design) ....that’s still true of most 3hp+ industrial cabinet saws like the Griz G1023R/G0690, Jet Xacta, PM2000, Saw Stop ICS, but most of the 120v (1.75hp) hybrid saws that claim cabinet mounted trunnions use the smaller type that fasten to the crossbrace….it’s a step in the right direction vs table mounted trunnions, but it’s worth noting that not all “cabinet mounted trunnions” are created equal. Table mounted trunnions can be a bit of a PITA to align, but its usually a once and done occurrence, so wouldn’t necessarily be a deal breaker on an otherwise terrific saw.

Blade selection and setup of the saw will be significant factors in the end performance of any of them. They all have a 27” deep cast iron table with standard 3/4” miter slots. Obviously the 3hp saws over more robust underpinnings and anywhere from roughly 65% to 100% more power.

Below are some pics that might help demonstrate the differences:

Hybrid Saws:
G0771 rear view:

Laguna Fusion top view (similar to the G0771):

.
Here’s a look at the Delta 36-725 from underneath:

.
These are pics of the guts of the former G0478, and the current Ridgid R4512 from the underside(very similar to the G0715P…note where the trunnion brackets mount to the underside of the table):

.
.

Industrial Cabinet Saws:
Griz G1023RL:

G0690:

Jet Xacta:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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Adrock1

43 posts in 674 days


#15 posted 03-02-2015 02:40 PM

BigCash, funny you referenced my post. I actually just ordered the G0771 less than an hour ago. I’ll be doing a review as soon as I get it and have time to set it up and dial it in.

For me it just came down to the fact that it was more saw for not much more money than the delta. Cast iron wings, full cabinet, a little more power, a little more robust trunnion from the looks of it. That tipped the scales for me. My only concern is that the fence is an unknown. If its serviceable it will get me by long enough to determine if an upgrade is worth it. The delta fence seems to be highly regarded. Personally I have seen the delta in person now at no less than 4 Lowes stores and everyone left me unimpressed with the fence. Fairly little force generated pretty obvious deflection. Considering how well reviewed the delta is it may just be poor setup of the display models. Who knows.

Anyway I feel the G0771 is a little more saw than the delta and I’ve learned with purchases like this you should buy once cry once. Get the most.you can afford up front and be done with it. For me the grizzly was as far as I was willing to stretch on a table saw and hopefully it can be my last tablesaw.

All that said, if you can stretch the budget to the 1023 I would recommend going that route with out question. You will NEVER regret having a more powerful robust saw down the road. That’s an honest cabinet saw with plenty of power and could easily be the forever saw for any serious hobbiest. If you can do it then do it.

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