LumberJocks

Fore Plane - With Issues

  • Advertise with us

« back to Hand Tools forum

Forum topic by John G. posted 02-25-2015 02:14 AM 934 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View John G.'s profile

John G.

13 posts in 672 days


02-25-2015 02:14 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question plane refurbishing rustic

I recently bought a Keen Kutter KK5 fore plane at a local fleatique. It looked pretty decent, but still it has a 100 years of use. I’ve takedn it apart and have begun the clean up. The rust was not bad and all the pieces were present. The tote had a clean break, but I’ve already epoxied it.

My question has to do with the sole condition. Here’s a pic of the toe end of the sole.

There’s a pitted area at the front corner. It isn’t deep, so I’m thinking that once I get the sole flattened and polished up, the pitted area won’t matter much in the kind of work done with a fore plane. I’m not going to flip it, so it only needs to be user grade. I intend to use this as a means to get back into wood working, but with hand tools more than power tools.

What says the jury?

-- The next brick house on the left. Montgomery AL


20 replies so far

View Mykos's profile

Mykos

102 posts in 1260 days


#1 posted 02-25-2015 02:17 AM

If you’re using it as a fore plane than don’t even bother trying to fettle the sole. It’s perfectly serviceable as it is now.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 951 days


#2 posted 02-25-2015 02:33 AM

Pitting never hurt. It’ll be fine as a user.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Troy Cleckler 's profile

Troy Cleckler

384 posts in 836 days


#3 posted 02-25-2015 02:44 AM

John, I’ve been cleaning up some myself and I’ve just self imposed some ripples to the toe of a #4. I’ve got most of it out and it’s taking tissue thin shavings. Learning that the whole sole doesn’t have to be flat to work well. As I’ve been told the important areas is in front of the mouth and the heel.
From your signature I’m guessing you are in Montgomery, Alabama? Just down the road in Prattville and work in Montgomery. And from the number of posts I’m guessing your new, Welcome.

-- Troy. - Measure twice, cut once and fill the gaps....

View John G.'s profile

John G.

13 posts in 672 days


#4 posted 02-25-2015 02:55 AM

Thanks Troy. Also thanks to Mykos and The Fridge.

It’s good to meet you, Prattville neighbor – the name Cleckler is familiar. I found this #5 at the Eastbrook Flea and Antique on Coliseum in Montgomery. New to Lumberjocks, but I lived here for almost 25 years, and yes I work here also at Gunter. I have some woodworking experience, but it’s been mostly with power tools. I want to use hand tools more, without throwing away the power.

I think I’ll do a little more cleaning, sharpen the iron and see what I can learn. Thanks again, guys!

-- The next brick house on the left. Montgomery AL

View Troy Cleckler 's profile

Troy Cleckler

384 posts in 836 days


#5 posted 02-25-2015 03:55 AM

Like I said I’ve just recently got into hand tools myself and, like you, I don’t want to give up the power tools but if there’s anything I can help you with just let me know. I also go by eastbrook all the time.
I’ve just discovered Evaprorust metal cleaner, non toxic and reusable. It does wonders for metal clean up. Also if you wasn’t aware, before cleaning/flattening the sole, make sure the plane is together with the blade retracted into the body. The tension makes a difference.
Send me a PM if ever I can help.

-- Troy. - Measure twice, cut once and fill the gaps....

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2198 posts in 946 days


#6 posted 02-25-2015 04:18 PM

First, I guess it depends on what “working right” means, but on the whole, I disagree with Mykos and Troy re: flat soles.

Second, you don’t have a high quality plane here, so don’t invest too much in it. If it doesn’t have an adjustable frog, I wouldn’t even bother with it.

The sole definitely needs to be flat, (especially in the mouth area) or will never work to its potential.
The flatness of the sole, frog, mouth and blade iron are very, very important if a plane is to work properly.

The pit at the front probably won’t be a problem.
I use self adhesive roll sandpaper on my table saw top.
Start with 80 grit and see what you got.

If you’ve never used a hand plane the worst mistake you can make is try to learn on a poor quality tool.
I found this out the hard way. I picked up a junk plane and almost gave up because of it.

Good luck.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View bandit571's profile (online now)

bandit571

14602 posts in 2149 days


#7 posted 02-25-2015 04:44 PM

Well, I doubt IF a Keen Kutter #5 would be called a “bad” plane, unless one only buys new L-N stuff, and can afford to look down their nose at other’s buys.

While not the Bedrock design of the K series, this is still a very good plane. Might have been a Stanley made one, too. Keen Kutter was a seller of tools, not a maker. They had their suppliers brand things with the brand names.
Test #1: Put a finger tip on oppisite corner ( with the plane on a flat surface) and see IF it rocks any.
Test#2: Switch the the others corners and try again

No rocking on either test? Clean it up, and put it to work. Remember, these were for rapid removal of rough surfaces, and had a camber (edge of the iron is curved) of about 8” radius. Not really meant as a micron thin shaving smooth plane.

Main thing is to sharpen the cutting edge.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View TerryDowning's profile

TerryDowning

1053 posts in 1583 days


#8 posted 02-25-2015 05:09 PM

I agree with Bandit on this one. I have a Lakeside #5 with an 8” camber on the cutter. and I can pass a pencil through the mouth. I have never bothered to flatten the sole on this plane, it passes the rocking test. It is only used for rapid stock removal and rough dimension work.

Fore Plane first moving cross grain or on a bias for rough stock prep and dimension work. The finish is typically scalloped and ready to be flattened with a try/jointer plane.

Try Plane to get stock flat and to finish dimensions

Smooth plane to make it pretty.

The try and smooth planes need to be flat within reason. I have never used a feeler gauge to test the flatness of my planes. I use the light test with a known straight edge (Starret combo square) I’m not a hobbyist metrologist,, I’m a hobbyist wood worker.

IMO it’s the finished product that matters, not the thickness of the shaving or how many thousandths of an inch tolerance your planes are flattened to. Craftsmen used wood body planes for centuries before the iron bodies showed up and I’m not going to argue with the results some of those craftsmen were able to achieve.

-- - Terry

View unbob's profile

unbob

718 posts in 1369 days


#9 posted 02-25-2015 05:42 PM

Flat is good!

View gmc's profile

gmc

34 posts in 1622 days


#10 posted 02-25-2015 06:37 PM

don’t get carried away with flat down to the 000… Woodworkers have been maiking furniture for hundreds of years and some of the most awsome furniture was made way before flat was discovered. If it passes the rock test and it fairly flat around the mouth you have a keeper. Those who want to get theirs within .0001 are free to do so, just can’t convince me that it is necessary. If it was there would never have been any fine furniture until the last hundred years, and we know that is not the case. Nice purchase, enjoy it.

-- Gary, Central Illinois

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

13738 posts in 2084 days


#11 posted 02-25-2015 07:10 PM



First, I guess it depends on what “working right” means, but on the whole, I disagree with Mykos and Troy re: flat soles.

Second, you don t have a high quality plane here, so don t invest too much in it. If it doesn t have an adjustable frog, I wouldn t even bother with it.

The sole definitely needs to be flat, (especially in the mouth area) or will never work to its potential.
The flatness of the sole, frog, mouth and blade iron are very, very important if a plane is to work properly.

- rwe2156

Couldn’t disagree more. Nothing inherently wrong with a Keen Kutter plane, as it was made by either Union or Stanley or Sargent back in the day and during a time when all were solid worker pieces.

A fore plane need not be ‘definitely flat’ and it isn’t ‘very very important’ that it be perfectly flat to work well.

Pitting is not an issue. Question: Is there any evidence the plane’s sole is twisted or warped in any way? And actually, I wouldn’t even check that before sharpening and honing the iron and attempting some cuts.

Unbob is a machinist and has proven conclusively, here on LJs, what flat actually is. Most users do not need that level of precision in their wood planes.

My .02, and worth only half what you paid to hear it. :-)

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4456 posts in 3426 days


#12 posted 02-25-2015 08:07 PM

Sharpen it, tune it, use it.
All the excess about flat is an issue for those who obsess. I use #3, #4, #5 1/2, #7, and a woody jointer. I’m not gonna go into all the wood planes I have, but they will function without soles flattened to the micro stuff that some would suggest.
I’m in the camp of function over form.
Maybe I’m an old fart, but I’ll plane with the best of whomever…..............
The big question is, “what is the proposed result”?
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View John G.'s profile

John G.

13 posts in 672 days


#13 posted 02-25-2015 11:03 PM

My understanding of the various kinds of planes is pretty small. I have done some research, some of which includes conflicting information – much like this thread. That’s not a bad thing, because it gives me some ideas of what to look for, and that’s why I asked about pitting. One thing I read defined a “fore” plane as the one that’s used before the others. It doesn’t make anything flat, but it does take out hills and valleys. It’s a rough(ing) tool. The jointer gets a piece ready for any joint work that may be needed and a smooth – it makes stuff smooth. Conceptually it makes sense.

I have checked the sole of my KK5 against a couple of different flat edges, and there may be a little to be done right around the mouth. The rest shows a little light here and there, but I’ll not worry about that. I’ve checked for squareness on both sides, and it probably doesn’t make any difference, except to the eye. I’m sure that the surface rust is gone. The japanning isn’t great, and it looks it’s been coated over in the past, but there’s no iron showing through.

So that pretty much leaves it down to sharpening. I may be wrong, but a fore should be about as sharp as any plane – it, too, has a job to do. And I don’t need to create any more hills or valleys. So that’s next on the agenda. I’ve read about all kinds of sharpening techniques. I have a grinder, I have a very flat piece to lay sandpaper on, so I may try a couple of different techniques – so far I haven’t seen anything unique to sharpening the iron of a fore plane versus some other size, style, or type.

I thank all of you for your advice and comments whether the same or different – learn from it all. I’ll be back. I should start a blog, too.

This is getting to be a full time job – may have to just retire *<{;o)

-- The next brick house on the left. Montgomery AL

View b_minus's profile

b_minus

1 post in 651 days


#14 posted 02-26-2015 12:26 AM

I’m new, and in Birmingham myself! Glad to see some Alabama people here while reading my first post on this forum!

View Troy Cleckler 's profile

Troy Cleckler

384 posts in 836 days


#15 posted 02-26-2015 12:32 AM

This is getting to be a full time job – may have to just retire *<{;o)

Yep, you are headed down a slippery slope and I’m right there in front of you.

-- Troy. - Measure twice, cut once and fill the gaps....

showing 1 through 15 of 20 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com