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newb - need help understanding blade kerf issue

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Forum topic by bdm_cmpe04 posted 02-14-2015 11:41 PM 1753 views 0 times favorited 56 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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bdm_cmpe04

17 posts in 878 days


02-14-2015 11:41 PM

Hello,
I’m relatively new to woodworking but feel like I’m making a lot of progress. I have a Grizzly G0715P table saw (2HP). For a long time I used the cheap blade that came with the saw. A couple months ago I upgraded to a Freud P410 blade.

The manual for the table saw specifically says to get a full kerf blade because the riving knife included with the saw is too thick for a thin kerf blade.

The issue that I am having is that ever since upgrading, it’s almost like the saw just doesn’t have enough horsepower to handle the blade. I’m getting lots of burning, and at times it’s like as I am trying to push a work piece through, the saw is fighting me. I assumed perhaps this was an alignment issue, so I took the time to align my fence properly using a dial indicator. I aligned the blade (actually just verified it, it was good from the start as it turns out). But even still, it’s as though the saw just can’t keep up.

I got out the old blade last night because I was cutting some mdf and didn’t want to damage my newer blade. I noticed that the teeth seem to protrude far less beyond the body of the blade than they do on the Frued (this wasn’t a scientific test, just looking). Nonetheless, the old blade cut through the mdf like a hot knife through butter.

Can anyone offer tips on what I’m experiencing? Is it normal behavior that two full kerf blades can weigh much differently? Should I consider replacing the riving knife w/ a thin kerf model and then using thin kerf blades going forward? Maybe a better way to ask is, does a nice blade like a Freud intend for you to run the stock through at a slower feed rate because it’s making a cleaner cut?

Thanks for the help!


56 replies so far

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CueballRosendaul

484 posts in 1607 days


#1 posted 02-15-2015 12:04 AM

I can’t speak specifically to your saw and blade, but I used to fight with my old craftsman saw a lot until I blew the sawdust out of the motor and bought a new Tenryu blade. The windings in the motor were all caked up with sawdust from years of not having a dust collector. After cleaning and oiling the motor it was like finding an extra horse. My neighbor bragged about his Tenryu blade so much that I had to try it and was blown away. Not to say that Freud doesn’t make a great blade, but you might have a dud. I’ve never been a fan of those painted blades anyway they always seemed to burnish.

In my experience, the narrow kerf blades tend to deflect a bit too much, so if you were running a piece through to shave a hair off one side, it would start out fine , but halfway through the cut, it would wander out and pinch the piece to the fence. They also tend to walk up a bit when tilting the blade.

When I was fighting that old Craftsman 1953 saw (I have a Unisaw now) I also swapped the power cord for a heavier gauge. I think the previous owner had used an old extension cord to replace the shorty on the saw. Your Griz probably has an ample wire though. I blame your blade. Just my 2¢

-- Matt CueBall Rosendaul. I don't think I've ever had a cup of coffee that didn't have cat hair or sawdust in it.

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knotscott

7224 posts in 2843 days


#2 posted 02-15-2015 12:28 AM

MDF can be tough on the edge life of blades, but is generally easy to cut. Is your Freud blade struggling in MDF or just hardwood?

There could be a number of causes in play…..the blade could have too many teeth for the task (wood too thick for the blade), if the wood isn’t flat and straight it’ll bind and twist against the blade, the blade could be defective, damaged, dirty, dull or all of the above. What is the other full kerf blade you mentioned?

Your saw will definitely have an easier time spinning a thin kerf blade if you can get a compatible riving knife, but the G0715P is typically pretty stout….are you running it on 110v or 220v?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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bdm_cmpe04

17 posts in 878 days


#3 posted 02-15-2015 12:37 AM

.075, .122

Well I may have just learned something pretty informative. I used my calipers to measure the body of the blade. The blade that came with the saw – a 40 tooth 10” – measured .075”. The Freud measures .122”.

Now look at page 7 of the manual:
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g0715p_m.pdf

Required Blade Body Thickness….................. 0.071 – 0.094 in. (1.8-2.4mm)
Required Blade Kerf Thickness…................... 0.102 – 0.126 in. (2.6-3.2mm)

The manual specifically says not to use a thin kerf blade, but now I’m wondering if this is not an industry-standard measurement? As I understand it, the full kerf Freud I’m using is well above the max body thickness. I didn’t measure its kerf specifically, but it’s likely outside the max kerf…which I guess doesn’t matter as long as it passes the riving knife.

But now I feel like I spent money on a $100 blade only to realize it’s not within spec. My fault I guess, but again I assumed full/thin kerf was an industry standard. Is that not the case?

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CharlesA

3025 posts in 1265 days


#4 posted 02-15-2015 12:41 AM

Hard to believe that the Freud Fusion blade wouldn’t cut better than the stock blade. That blade should be plenty wide for the riving knife, according to specs. Might be worth checking the blade and riving knife thicknesses to make sure there are no irregularities there. Any change the blade is slightly bent or damaged?

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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CharlesA

3025 posts in 1265 days


#5 posted 02-15-2015 12:42 AM

The Freud kerf is within the tolerance, .126

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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bdm_cmpe04

17 posts in 878 days


#6 posted 02-15-2015 12:43 AM

But what I’m saying is, they’re calling for a max body of 0.094…if I’m trying to spin a blade that’s 25% wider than that (.122”), then the saw will have a tough time keeping up, right? The .122” I measured was the Freud’s blade body, not the saw kerf…

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daddywoofdawg

1010 posts in 1042 days


#7 posted 02-15-2015 12:46 AM

Just a passing thought Is the blade in the right direction don’t have it in backwards? just a thought.

View joey502's profile

joey502

487 posts in 985 days


#8 posted 02-15-2015 12:50 AM

I have a 1.75 HP Steel City hybrid. I only use thin kerf blades and can’t complain about anything. Up until a couple weeks ago I used the Diablo blades from HD, then I decided to buy a Freud fusion (p410T) and a Freud 24T industrial rip, both thin kerf. The difference is night and day. I found that after upgrading to the new blades the saw required less effort to cut.

I would try a thin kerf blade myself.

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firefighterontheside

13522 posts in 1324 days


#9 posted 02-15-2015 12:51 AM

Maybe you’re measurement is off. Freud lists these specs for your blade.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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CharlesA

3025 posts in 1265 days


#10 posted 02-15-2015 12:52 AM

I would try thin as well, except the wood won’t push past the riving knife.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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bdm_cmpe04

17 posts in 878 days


#11 posted 02-15-2015 01:01 AM

good call firefighter….I just went and remeasured and my plate measures right at .100, I think the caliper caught the edge of a tooth the first time I measured. .100 and .098 are both slightly bigger than the saw’s listed spec of .094, but I assume not enough to make a difference.

So unfortunately that brings me back to square one…if the blade I have is within spec (for all practical purposes), why such difficulty cutting? I notice that Freud ships the blade with some kind of hot glue or something filling those anti-vibe slots they laser-cut into the blade…should I clean that out? Doubtful that would be a contributing factor. I don’t really know what else to think at this point…2 HP seems like plenty to cut through ply and mdf with no issue using a full kerf, but that’s not what I’m experiencing.

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CharlesA

3025 posts in 1265 days


#12 posted 02-15-2015 01:05 AM

Do you have a dial indicator that would let you know if the blade is turning true? Maybe remove the riving knife for one cut to see if that makes a difference?

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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firefighterontheside

13522 posts in 1324 days


#13 posted 02-15-2015 01:07 AM

They probably measure the plate without paint and you are measuring the paint. I don’t want to insult you, but you don’t have the blade on backwards do you. I did that with my dado once. A while back someone posted about a freud blade that had a glob of the stuff you are talking about that protruded out of the laser cuts. It’s supposed to be in there, just not proud of the surface. I believe freud was going to replace that blade. That said, I’m not sure it would cause your problem. I would think it would wear off pretty quickly.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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firefighterontheside

13522 posts in 1324 days


#14 posted 02-15-2015 01:09 AM

Here.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/65169

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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bdm_cmpe04

17 posts in 878 days


#15 posted 02-15-2015 01:15 AM

yeah I used dial indicator last week to align both the fence and the blade…don’t remember specifically what blade runout was but it was just a few thou…very small.

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