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Forum topic by ghazard posted 04-27-2009 06:39 PM 6226 views 0 times favorited 25 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ghazard

382 posts in 2976 days


04-27-2009 06:39 PM

Topic tags/keywords: router safety feed

I recently bought a Ryobi router table. I don’t have the model number with me but it was a basic universal $100 table w/o a router included. With the fence installed where it should be (facing me on the opposite side of the bit when I am standing in front of the table.) The feed direction arrow printed on the top of the table shows right to left. Now if I place a piece of stock between the fence and the bit and run it right to left the bit will be climb milling and pulling the stock ALONG WITH the direction of feed, not against. That can’t be right, can it? Unless I am missing something, which is surely possible, that seems backwards to me and would create a difficult to control operation.

Thoughts?

-- "Hey, you dang woodchucks! Quit chuckin' my wood!"


25 replies so far

View woodworm's profile

woodworm

14164 posts in 3057 days


#1 posted 04-27-2009 06:58 PM

You stand facing the fence’s face. Do not trap the workpiece in between the bit and the fence. Not only climb cutting is dangerous (esp when the workpiece is trapped between the fence and the bit), you may spoil the workpiece and also the bit. Sometime I need to do climb cutting, I do it only when the workpiece is wide and long enough for me to securely hold it and fully in control.

As seen in this pic, the bit rotates from left to right (anti clockwise) you feed the stock from right to the left.
The fence acts as guide and limit the depth/thickness of each cut. Gradually move the fence to the back until the stock is guided by the bit bearing (if any).

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

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LifesGood1

33 posts in 2797 days


#2 posted 04-27-2009 07:02 PM

With any router table, I’ve always heard that you are not suppose to place the material between the fence and bit like woodworm had said. I’m sure if you put the material on the outside, it would run properly.

-- Jerod, Austin

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Rustic

3220 posts in 3062 days


#3 posted 04-27-2009 07:25 PM

I would not run the piece between the bit and fence. It will feed through at bullet speed. Thus causing an extremely dangerous situation. SAFTEY FIRST

-- www.carvingandturningsbyrick.com, Rick Kruse, Grand Rapids, MI

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woodworm

14164 posts in 3057 days


#4 posted 04-27-2009 07:39 PM

I do make climb cutting (feeding the workpiece from left to right) to avoid/reduce tear out. The first time I tried it was after 2 years I have been playing with routing operation on RT.

Good luck.

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8523 posts in 3115 days


#5 posted 04-27-2009 07:46 PM

using a table for routing purposes, and edge routing – the bit should ALWAYS be INSIDE the fence, never feed the board where it’s caught between the fence and the bit (for edge routing ! routing dadoes is different)!

yes, this is climb cutting, but this is the most dangerous way to climb cut as you have 0% control over the cut, and the board… this is tragedy waiting to happen…. juts a matter of time. period.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

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ghazard

382 posts in 2976 days


#6 posted 04-27-2009 07:52 PM

Ah…of course! I was looking at it last night with the fence pushed back away from the bit and it didn’t seem right. I wasn’t thinking about when the fence is flanking the bit…then it the feed direction is correct…duh (I say to myself.)

I understand the climb milling danger and I DO NOT do that. What about the oppsite…passing between the fence and bit against the direction of the cut? I have to admit, that i have jointed in this way…taking very small passes and being sure the stock stays flush to the table and fence…and NOT climb milling. To me, this actually seems less dangerous than ripping on the table saw with a fence…but the same risks pertain, for sure.

Thanks!

-- "Hey, you dang woodchucks! Quit chuckin' my wood!"

View Chris's profile

Chris

339 posts in 2824 days


#7 posted 04-27-2009 07:57 PM

I guess you’ve gotten this answer pretty clear, so I won’t hit it again. But I’m very glad that you noticed the inconsistency of what was written on the table and your concept of how it was supposed to work, and then asked a question rather than shrug it off. Always listen to the little guy in your ear when he says something doesn’t feel right. Thanks for asking, keep asking, and know that these responses are from people trying to help. Best of luck.

-- Chris

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Chris

339 posts in 2824 days


#8 posted 04-27-2009 08:01 PM

I missed your last response G. No matter how shallow the cut, you really don’t want to run the piece between the fence and the router. To do a jointing cut you pad the outfeed side of the fence to the depth of the jointing cut (an extra piece of laminate say). Then the piece is supported before and after the cut.

-- Chris

View Frankie Talarico Jr.'s profile

Frankie Talarico Jr.

353 posts in 2823 days


#9 posted 04-27-2009 08:40 PM

You can climb cut as long as you’re safe. Here’s a how-to that explains saftey and procedure

Climb routing

remember, a safe shop is a happy shop

-- Live by what you believe, not what they want you to believe.

View ghazard's profile

ghazard

382 posts in 2976 days


#10 posted 04-27-2009 09:04 PM

Chris, Understood. Now I’m going to play devils advocate…”Passing between the fence and the bit is an easy way to joint 2 opposite sides parallel.”

Is there another way to “parallel” 2 sides with a router table. The traditional way is to joint one side then rip the other parallel on the table saw, correct? My table saw kind of sucks so I was looking for a way to do it on my router table…

-- "Hey, you dang woodchucks! Quit chuckin' my wood!"

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8523 posts in 3115 days


#11 posted 04-27-2009 09:18 PM

the reason the table saw is the preferred method is cause the table saw’s cutting action is perpendicular to the board passing direction, where as a router cutting direction is INTO the board passing direction – in the case of the board between the bit and the fence, this force is applied into the board causing it to pinch against the fence, creating even more pressure than usual, and it only takes 1 time for that board to snap, or run away from you – and your hand and fingers will soon find out what a router bit spinning at 23000rpm can do to human flesh, AKA – why experience and time tests have chosen to use the Table saw for that operation and NOT a router table…

please , please , please – do not have a board between the router bit and the fence… its just really is THAT bad of an idea.

climb cutting poses some danger, but can be done, if you take light passes, but climb cutting a handheld router is one thing – pinching the board on a table between the bit and the fence is another…

the suggestions have been clearly stated here…. you will not get any other opinion in this case on this forum. it’s up to you to use it wisely, or try out your luck.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

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PurpLev

8523 posts in 3115 days


#12 posted 04-27-2009 10:07 PM

experience level, and featherboards have nothing to do with it. you’ve got a bit spinning at 23K rpm, completely uncovered, and unprotected as opposed to using a table saw with blade cover, and less likelihood of running wild at you… I don’t get why people like to try their luck when there’s a safer, easier alternative?

it’s like crossing a 5 lane road 10 feet away from a light, and waiting for the signal light to turn red before crossing ?!? why? why not cross at the light while it’s green?

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

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ghazard

382 posts in 2976 days


#13 posted 04-27-2009 10:44 PM

Shop, my last post.

“Is there another way to “parallel” 2 sides with a router table. The traditional way is to joint one side then rip the other parallel on the table saw, correct? My table saw kind of sucks so I was looking for a way to do it on my router table…”

-- "Hey, you dang woodchucks! Quit chuckin' my wood!"

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8523 posts in 3115 days


#14 posted 04-27-2009 10:49 PM

what kind of router bit do I run on the table saw? flush trim bits… and roundover… doesn’t everyone? lol

how did you get to the conclusion I’m running router bits on the table saw? read my post again – bit spinning = router bit, blade cover = table saw BLADE

I’m quoting the OP (from his replied posts):

To me, this actually seems less dangerous than ripping on the table saw with a fence…

The traditional way is to joint one side then rip the other parallel on the table saw, correct? My table saw kind of sucks so I was looking for a way to do it on my router table…

This is where the Table saw came into the question.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Dan Lyke's profile

Dan Lyke

1510 posts in 3591 days


#15 posted 04-27-2009 10:57 PM

A place where, despite knowing all the safety precautions, I did a climb cut which trapped the work piece between the blade and the fence and spat the wood at high speed into my garage door: I was cutting a groove in the center of a strip of wood. I think I had a 2” strip of wood, and I was cutting an inch groove in the middle with a 3/4” bit.

Leave 1/2” of stock on either side. How hard is that?

So I measured a half inch gap from the fence to the bit. Made the first cut, had half an inch on the far side, 3/4” groove, 3/4” of stock on the near side. Flipped the piece around so that that 3/4” stock was on the far side where the next pass would take off the 1/4”.

The rest, as they say, is history. Except for that dent in my garage door, that’s still there.

I do think it’d be cool to film the operation again as a warning to those who’d come after. I was using push sticks, it’d be totally safe to recreate, but… It just freaked me out soooo much that I can’t bring myself to recreate the situation.

Anyway, that’s how I managed to do what I thought was the obvious thing, leave 1/2” of stock so measure 1/2” from the fence to the bit, and put the fear off the router table into me somewhere deep into my lizard brain reflexes. And how I inadvertently trapped stock between the bit and the fence.

As others have said: It’s okay to climb cut, as long as you do it very carefully with push sticks and take off only a teeny tiny little bit of stock at a time, but don’t ever get your stock in between your fence and your bit.

-- Dan Lyke, Petaluma California, http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke

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