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Restoring an old Jointer (& 1st Lumberjocks post)

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Forum topic by Milo posted 04-26-2009 07:19 PM 4482 views 1 time favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Milo

869 posts in 2780 days


04-26-2009 07:19 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question jointer refurbishing joining

Hello All,

This is my first post at Lunberjocks, and I must say, this is certainly an enthusiastic forum board. Lots of responses to a myriad of subjects. I look forward to everyones responses. (No pressure ;-).

I have an older Craftsman 6” jointer that someone gave me a couple years back. Jury-rigged sucker, flopping belt on a homemade frame driving the blades. You don’t want to know how the motor is secured to its deck.

I would like to restore this jointer. It’s a good solid tool that I feel has years of service left. Plus I don’t have 1000$ for anything near it’s cutting size. The major problem with the jointer is the back deck cannot be raised to the starting point of being parrallel(sp?) to the front deck. I’m always taking off much more of any wood I run over it that I think is really necessary. Perhaps I am wrong.

Anyway, is it possible to take this jointer apart, clean is, clean the screws, clean the rust, and put it back togather again to better working order? Am I asking for trouble to try and do this? Would it be cost/effort efficiant?

Opinions welcome!

Dell

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...


15 replies so far

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Marc5

304 posts in 2803 days


#1 posted 04-26-2009 07:36 PM

Not knowing the exact model but I took a quick look at the link showing a manual of a older Craftsman Jointer and it if this represents something close to what you have I would say you can take it apart and clean it without to much trouble. At a minimum it could be a good learning experience and save some serious bucks. Good luck either way.

http://owwm.com/mfgindex/pubdetail.aspx?id=2356

-- Marc

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brianinpa

1812 posts in 3184 days


#2 posted 04-26-2009 07:45 PM

Dell,

Not only is it possible, but I highly recommend it. I did the same thing to the “4 Craftsman model. One bonus of restoring an old tool is that you gain a much great understanding of how they work.

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

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cabinetmaster

10874 posts in 3019 days


#3 posted 04-26-2009 07:51 PM

I’ll ditto both of these remarks. You could possibly have a better machine than some of the newer ones.

-- Jerry--A man can never have enough tools or clamps

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Craftsman on the lake

2523 posts in 2899 days


#4 posted 04-26-2009 08:00 PM

If it’s the same or similar jointer I’ve got it’s a great tool. mine didn’t have much mileage on it when I refurbed it but I’ve used it a lot since. It’s true and works like a charm. I don’t know which model yours is or it’s condition but it’s a heavy cast iron unit that won’t vibrate when you turn it on. If it runs good and seems quality built then what difference would there be with a new one? unless it has a larger bed?

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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marcb

768 posts in 3134 days


#5 posted 04-26-2009 08:54 PM

If its a King-Seeley model (50’s) its a great jointer. If its one of the latter Emmerson Electric, its not as good.

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Milo

869 posts in 2780 days


#6 posted 04-26-2009 09:09 PM

It looks similar to the one that Marc5 has the link to. At least the tables look similar The fence design is a whole lot different, as well as the dials. More adjustments too. I’ll go take a look jointer and see if I can find a model number.

Sooo, to the point, HOW would I go about doing this? Just take it apart, carefully, mapping the parts as I go, clean and put back togather? I’m going to assume that if I can find an old pdf of the exact model, with exploded diagrams, this will greatly help the situation. I’ve never attempted something quite like this.

Thanks!

Dell

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View johnpoolesc's profile

johnpoolesc

246 posts in 2821 days


#7 posted 04-26-2009 09:15 PM

the best part about rebuilding any old tool is the quality of the bed.. very solid very flat.. and welcome to LJ. i would recogmend buying stainless nuts and bolts.. with locktite.. a little more $ but well worth the time it takes to find them.. if you don’t see them local, any marine repair shop sells them

-- It's not a sickness, i can stop buying tools anytime.

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Milo

869 posts in 2780 days


#8 posted 04-26-2009 09:25 PM

Hey guys, found it!

I’m almost positive that this is my jointer: Craftsman/Walker Turner Model 2288 6” Jointer

Marc5, thanks for the link. The link to my jointer is: http://owwm.com/mfgindex/pubdetail.aspx?id=592
BAD news. No exploding diaghram on this product manual.

Anyway, now that we have this additional info, any thought guys?

THANKS!

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

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brianinpa

1812 posts in 3184 days


#9 posted 04-27-2009 12:24 AM

Before you start, take photos. While you are disassembling, take phots and notes. When you are done, take more photos. The photos will answer any questions you may come across as you are re-assembling it.

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1488 posts in 2814 days


#10 posted 04-27-2009 01:04 AM

Welcome to LJ.

That looks like a good machine.

You want to remove the tables and clean the ways and gibs, they might be gummed up or rusty preventing the tables from moving all the way up. In looking at the parts breakout, lock the tables in place, spin the the handwheels and shaft all the way out to remove them. Make sure the tables are locked and don’t move or have a buddy hold the table in place, although I have done this myself. Most likely you’ll also have to remove that block the shaft threads though, from my experience there’s usually not enough room for the casting to clear that block.

Once that’s removed loosen the table lock and slide the table off the ways, you might be able to slide it down and off, you might have to slide it up to get it off, and be careful, it’s heavy. And note the side the gib is on when it falls out so you know which side it goes on when you reassemble it.

Once both tables are off clean everything up, the ways on the base and the matching slides on the underside of the tables and the gibs. And the cutterhead and bearings will be accessible if you want to do anything with them.

When reassembling see if you can get some way oil to coat the ways, gibs, and where the tables mate with the base. I keep some on hand for my milling machine and if you can’t find any locally you can get it at Enco and they have it on sale for $14.95 a gallon (Mobil No. 4). Others may tell you to use any oil but I like to use what is made for the purpose.

I also noticed that the cutterhead has a max speed of 9000 RPM. I would get a 1-1/2HP 3450 RPM motor for it and put a 4” pulley on the motor and a 2” pulley on the cutterhead. Then the cutterhead will be spinning at 6900 RPM and with the 3 knives you’d be getting 20,700 cuts per minute making for a mighty fine finsh.

I say 1-1/2HP because when you use pulleys to increase the speed you decrease the torque, so that 1-1/2HP would effectively only have the torque of a 3/4HP motor at the the cutterhead. And as motor RPM goes up given the same HP torque goes down. So a 3/4HP 1750 RPM motor and a 1-1/2HP 3450 RPM motor deliver the same amount of torque and torque is what does the work. You could try a 1HP motor but from what I’ve seen the difference in price between a 1HP motor and a 1-1/2HP motor is not a lot.

Then you’d have one fine jointer.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

View marcb's profile

marcb

768 posts in 3134 days


#11 posted 04-27-2009 01:20 AM

1 1/2 HP is way too much, personally I would only go with a 3/4 HP motor max, plenty of power for a 6” jointer (as long as the motor is really 3/4HP). Unless your hogging off over 1/8 per pass you’ll never get near needing 1+HP.

Also standard bearings don’t really like going over 5000 RPM – going to close to 7000 will just be dangerous. Unless he’s specing something fancier than a standard decent quality bearing (like something actually ABEC rated which is a waste for this class of machine) I would shoot for around 4500 as a nice safe high. Easy to manage.

You don’t lose HP when you gear up to a higher speed, you lose torque. HP is an amount of work done over a specific time.

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BlankMan

1488 posts in 2814 days


#12 posted 04-27-2009 01:37 AM

marb, 3/4HP at what RPM? Torque is the issue and RPM makes a difference, not gut feel, do the math and read the manual, it states that the cutterhead, and I quote, “the jointer may be safely operated at speeds up to 8000 or 9000 RPM”

And yes I know you loose torque, I was trying to show HP and torque are inversely proportional by stating HP/torque but I removed that so as to not confuse.

That 1-1/2HP 3450 RPM motor spinning the cutterhead at 6900 RPM would have the same torque at the cutterhead as a 3/4HP 1750 RPM motor spinning the cutterhead at 3500 RPM would have at the cutterhead.

So how is that too much?

By spinning the cutterhead faster within allowable limits will give you a smoother finish and 6900 RPM is within the allowable limits according to the manual.

The manual states at “least” a 1/2HP and they’re referring to a 1750 RPM motor, so that’s equivalent to a 1HP 3450 RPM motor. They also state 4500 is a good speed so by going up to 6900 RPM a 1-1/2HP motor would be making up some of the torque lost by the increased speed.

That all taken into consideration, I don’t think a 1-1/2HP 3450 RPM motor is “way too much”, but a 1HP 3450 RPM motor might be enough. But why not make it as best you can instead of, I wish I woulda…

Dell welcomed opinions and well, I would do that for the cost of a motor, pulleys, and belt. That be one kickarse jointer! Capable of jointing even the hardest of woods.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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marcb

768 posts in 3134 days


#13 posted 04-27-2009 05:31 AM

RPM doesn’t matter as a 3/4HP motor running at 1725 and geared up to 3450 has the same torque as a 3/4HP motor running at 3450.

I know the manual, I’ve worked on that jointer, as well as several others. 3/4HP is more than adequate for a 6” jointer of that design. Probably not true if you buy some junky Chinese motor, but if you get a real 3/4hp motor you’re good to go.

I might go as high as 1 HP on a Delta 6” which has some more meat in the castings around the cutter head. But ultimately as long as your doing small cuts that is worthless power. Its like, but 5HP motor on a 10” table saw. You’re never really going to push it hard enough to run into a need for that.

But all that aside the real issue is that you are giving advice which is very unsafe. It doesn’t matter what the cutter head is designed to do, it matters what the bearings are designed to do. You’re telling him to operate the jointer outside the safe speed range for standard bearings.

View Don K.'s profile

Don K.

1075 posts in 2787 days


#14 posted 04-27-2009 06:35 AM

Welcome to LJ’s, just found this place myself not to long ago. As far as the old jointer….imo older tools are almost always better than many newer tools. Some of my best and favorite tools in my shop are older than me.

-- Don S.E. OK

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BlankMan

1488 posts in 2814 days


#15 posted 04-27-2009 07:19 AM

“RPM doesn’t matter as a 3/4HP motor running at 1725 and geared up to 3450 has the same torque as a 3/4HP motor running at 3450.”

That is correct. What’s you’re point? The only reason I’m saying use 3450 RPM motor is “to gear it up” to 6900 RPM to get more cuts per minute, not to run the cutterhead at 3450 RPM.

A 3/4HP motor spinning at 1725 will be producing 2.28 ft-lbs of torque at the motor shaft, because the cutterhead is “geared up to 3450 RPM” as you stated, the torque at the cutterhead will be 1.14 ft-lbs of torque. This is what you are saying to use.

A 3/4HP motor spinning at 3450 RPM produces 1.14 ft-lbs of torque at the motor shaft, double it’s speed at the cutterhead and you’re down to 0.57 ft-lbs of torque.

A 1HP motor spinning at 3450 RPM produces 1.52 ft-lbs of torque at the motor shaft, double it’s speed at the cutterhead and you’re down to 0.76 ft-lbs of torque.

A 1-1/2HP motor spinning at 3450 RPM produces 2.28 ft-lbs of torque at the motor shaft, double it’s speed at the cutterhead and you’re down to 1.14 ft-lbs of torque.

We’re exactly back torque-wise at the cutterhead to where you stated use a 3/4HP 1725 RPM motor and “gear up to 3450 RPM”, 1.14 ft-lbs of torque. So, what is unsafe about that? The torque is at the same point and the RPM is within specification.

So, you think the manual would state to the run the machine at 9000 RPM if the bearings weren’t rated for it? That would be unsafe. But I am going by the manual and it specifically says “safely”. I would not be recommending to run the cutterhead at that speed if it wasn’t spelled out in the manual.

You’re saying it’s unsafe. But not according to the manual. Who’s right, you or the manual? I’d lean towards the manual. You say you know the manual, then you should know that 6900 RPM is safe. As Norm’s always says, “read, understand, and follow all the safety rules that come with your power tools”, Dell would be doing that.

But I would check that the bearings that are in the machine are what were originally spec’d out. I’ll give you that.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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