What do you thinks of China plywood ?

hey Mase:

Can you show us some examples. There’s got to be more to Chinese plywood than what we see in Home Depot.

China is the only place they put melamine in the dog food and not in the plywood.

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

Yes, There are a lot of pictures in my another blog . http://saintywood.blogspot.com/
You can check it .

More spam…oh no!

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

In the views of most foreign customers, Chinese plywood are all low quality . But in fact, Chinese plywood can be high quality to your expectation .

Mason Pan:
The sample in your picture on your website shows poor quality finish.
How could the real board be any better?
There great big scratches on it going right across the plywood face.
There is even a big nick in the veneer showing me how thin it really is.
The veneer is damaged by the saw blade perhaps because it is too thin to cut properly.

I am convinced that you guys really don’t know what quality is.
Or… maybe you think we don’t.
http://bp2.blogger.com/_Gwb_RpLGHrk/Rg4izqtIIMI/AAAAAAAAAI4/waMrRy0Ty6Q/s1600-h/Red+Hardwood+face+back+Blockboard.JPG

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I’ve used Chinese Plywood twice. Both times it was full of voids and useless, ruining the project that it was being used for. Not only are products made in China viewed as being poor quality, in most cases they are.

You’re right though, Mason. Chinese plywood can be higher quality than my expectation. It could only have 15 voids in it instead of 30.

Thanks for posting, but China has the worst quality control that we know of. Even if your website showed beautiful boards, the chance of getting same is about zilch.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Thank you for your reply and feedbacks .
The quality of Chinese plywood,film faced plywood,blockboard are so different (from low quality to high quality) . Customers also want products of from low quality to high quality because their usages are different . For example, some customers want blockboard to stick HPL or something other to the board , so they will want medium quality blockboard to reduce their costs .

The quality of raw materials for plywood/film faced plywood/blockboard are quite different , too .
Sometimes,the quality problems occurred because there were misunderstandings between the importers and exporters . So, it’s better for the importers to pay a visit to the factory to check the quality before importation .

China Plywood Industry has been fast developping for over 10 years . The big facories can produce high quality plywood/film faced plywood/blockboard . Some Chinese plywood factories are small facories . I think these small factories may bankrupt within 2 years because government changed the tax policy to restrict the development of these small factories whose quality control are weak .

Me thinks it’s not too good. – but if Lowes and Home Depot can get the best price on it, it may become all we have access to.

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

Sigh…sad how it comes down to just price. You can have price, or quality, but not usually both.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

Double post

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

The way things are being recalled from China , I think i will pass. LOL
Plus i prefer using reclaimed wood because it is free.

-- John in Cranbrook http://www.extremebirdhouse.com ....http://community.webshots.com/user/cranbrook2

If I buy Chinese plywood, can I get it pre-painted with lead-based paint? :) Then I could build some stuff for my daughter out of it.

-- Joshua, Olathe, Kansas

Anything you buy from China is a piece of S—t

-- WOOD/DON (...one has the right to ones opinion but not the right to ones own facts...)

at first, I thought Mason’s post was just spam. Then, I can see that he really wanted some feedback. Looks like he has gotten quite a bit already, and I can’t argue with any of it. I wish you guys would say what you really mean, and quit being so nice…har har.

I prefer to use high quality, low void plywood, with as thick of a veneer as possible to get, with the same wood all the way through the plywood. Also, I do not like to see reddish colored glue showing through the thin veneer face. I do not want to see big splotches of ugly non-matching putty covering up voids, nor lemon shaped patches covering up knots.

Another problem I have experienced with the Chinese plywood, is the problem of big dents and scratches. I haven’t blamed the manufacturer, because who is to know where it ended up happening, but it absolutely ruins a piece of plywood for my purposes.

A really annoying problem is the wood dust. I seem to just sneeze and sneeze once I cut Chinese plywood. Their wood filler layers are just something that makes me sneeze. It isn’t just me, other Kansas woodworkers have the same sneezing problem.

I think if Mason wants to sell plywood, he should contact the Chinese manufacturers of furniture, as they seem to go together well, and should make a perfect match. Selling their boxed products in big shipping containers to Americans without any taste, or eye for quality..

As for the rest of us, we get what we pay for. If we want something, we have to pay for it, and use it. If we buy the cheap stuff, the suppliers will stock it. If we constantly say “no” to something they have in stock, they might stop and try to figure out what we want.

But, I fear that for most of us, we buy a sheet or two here and there. Maybe half a dozen sheets once a year. So, nobody listens to us, and the big guys call the shots. They want to reduce the cost of each piece of crappy furniture they machine and put in a box for the customer to assemble, so Big Box stores will stock, and Americans will buy it. Then, the rest of us only get to buy what is made for the big manufacturers.

Supply follows demand.

I’d like to think that if we Demand what we want, the successful supplier will listen. Unfortunately, with plywood, and so many other things, my little voice, or a whole bunch of little voices don’t affect the bottom line of anyone’s company, so we have no voice.

I tend to agree with Don, that is until my Ford Ranger’s transmission decided to shoot craps this week. I found out that the transmission is made by Mazda. So, now I don’t feel that the Chinese have the sole position as the world’s foremost makers of crap. Now, that being said, I’m sure you can not lump all people of entire country into one pool, and label it. I’m merely trying to be humorous. I would sure like to think that people don’t look at the worst of American manufacturing and decide that we all make crap too. Also, I’m sure that there are very nice people in China, and not everyone is out to swap out quality products and put in fake products as soon as the inspectors have gone home for the night, or went to lunch. I mean who in their right mind could mess with the paint on something as special and iconic as Thomas the Train Engine?

-- Mark DeCou - Kansas Flinthill's Artisan

Thank Mark DeCou for your reply .
Your feedbacks are very important .
We can solve these quality problems but the prices will have to rise by 15-30% .
How much is the “Chinese plywood,B grade Okoume face/ C or D grade Okoume (or birch)back, poplar core , MR glue, 4’x8’x18mm in US market” ?

Mason pan,
It would seem that you are really wanting honest feed back. I have no idea if I’ve ever used Chinese plywood. However in my area, Home Depot and Lowe’s sell 3/4 (18mm) Birch at around $35-39US/ sheet.The Lowe’s is the better and seems to be closer to a real 3/4 inch. I have tried something called “Tuckernut” that is stocked by McKillican American. I don’t know where it comes from but I found it to be stringy and lots of voids. I am now using a “Poplar ” plywood from McKillican which is very usable. My cost on this is a little over $30/ sheet. It is a seven ply core and has few voids. If I could get a plywood from China which was on a par with Baltic Birch or Finnish Birch I would use it. Especially if the price was better. We have been out of Baltic for about 3 months now. We are importing it any way so where is not as important as the quality and price. But put quality first. Absolutely no voids, thicker face veneers and tight quality control. Most of us here are small shops and will pay what it takes to get the quality we want. It seems we will be doing business with China more and more in the days to come. We need to keep it a pleasant process. Years ago I got some lumber core plywood and liked it. I haven’t seen any for years and don’t know of anyone who stocks it. another product I have used occasionally is “Composite Core”. This has 2 layers of core which are MDF. They stablize the product and help eliminate warping while still having good screw and glue function. A super quality product at a reasonable price will sell but this is a niche market and like Mark said, the big manufcturers are going to stay with the junk and their bottom line. That’s business.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I’m a tree hugger. And jointer. And planer. And scraper. And finisher. It’s important to not forget that a big part of the lower ‘price’ is the the higher environmental ‘cost’ that is involved here. While North American and European manufacturers are generally held to higher standards regarding pollution resulting from the process, the Chinese dump their pollutants into the air and water, which eventually affects us all. You can also look at import trade balances and how the Chinese basically own the American economy, labour conditions, civil rights, and a host of other factors. Add to that the damage to the oceans from all of this ‘cheap’ stuff on boats and you have to wonder if saving $10 a sheet is really worth it in the long run. It can be inconvenient taking environmental impact into the equation – I’ve had to basically give up seafood since most of what I can get here is Chinese imports and I’ve seen the satellite photos of Chinese fishing fleets raping the ocean floor with their dragging nets – but it’s all part of leaving the planet in half-decent shape for my kids and their kids and their kids.

-- OW! that was my THUMB! MyOldHouse in London ON

My friend, what is—is. We can go farther by helping these people to fix the problem than we will by ignoring the problem. I don’t know what business you are in but I’m trying to make a living. If I chose to not use Chinese products I doubt anyone would notice. The major corporations will call the shots no matter what I do. On the other hand, if I help someone to develop a better product he might just listen to me in my concerns about such things as the environment. When your belly is empty and the roof is leaking it’s hard to think about such things as the environment. There are a lot of Chinese who will think about it after their basic needs are met.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

a very good point, THos.
reminds me of the guiding principle, when I was working for Children’s Services—- you can’t teach a parent new parenting skills if they main concern is putting food on the table and a roof over their heads… survival is kind of distracting! (even though the other issues are a priority, basic needs become #1 importance).

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

the big manufcturers are going to stay with the junk and their bottom line. That’s business.

The major corporations will call the shots no matter what I do

The only way to get out of this spiral is to hit them in the bottom line by not buying their junk. That’s business. Defeatist attitudes are perpetuating the problems with the environment. Act locally, think globally, and all that. I don’t know how things work in Oregon, but up here sound environmental practices are a major selling point, and can demand a premium.

We can go farther by helping these people to fix the problem than we will by ignoring the problem.

Telling somebody we’re not going to buy their junk, especially when it’s our junk shipped over there to be processed and sold back to us at an incredible environmental, not to mention economic, cost, will make them fix the problem. Thos., would you not be making a better living if you had more locally employed people buying your slightly more expensive but locally produced services? What kind of shape do you think Mattel will be in now that it’s shown that their fantastic cheap toys have been poisoning our kids?

There are a lot of Chinese who will think about it after their basic needs are met.

I would find this easier to believe if there were more ‘needs well met’ North Americans taking a more pro-active approach to environmental issues, but as stated above, everything seems to be about the bottom line, and that’s the only place where some will listen.

-- OW! that was my THUMB! MyOldHouse in London ON

great idea. Now, put all that together and make it work. I see too many “environmentally conscious citizens who drive SUV’s, live in 4000 SF houses which they either heat or air condition 365 days of the year while working for the major corporations which contribute to the problem. They then think they are doing their part because they ” buy green”. Horse feathers. I didn’t come here to argue.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I didn’t come here to argue either, Thos. This is a forum. I made a reply to a post that asked me ‘what I thinks of china plywood’, and since the flippant answers were already taken, I decided to raise some points that I feel are important that hadn’t been addressed. It was you who got all dogmatic on my arse, remember, and when I respond you make up some stereotype and call horsefeathers?

I do my best to make it work every day. It’s not always easy and there are things I have to forgo, as well as putting up with grief on bulletin boards, but it’s a choice that I think is worth it. For the sake of my kids and their kids. If enough people do something, hell, anything, then it will make a difference. On the other hand if we all sit around with our heads in the feathers waiting for somebody else to do something, it will be left to my kids and their kids, and your kids and their kids to fix the problems we leave them.

-- OW! that was my THUMB! MyOldHouse in London ON

I’ve owned an SUV and I now drive a pick-up .. both not the best environmental choices…. but there are reasons behind my choices and I try to balance it out with other good choices.

I think our society (worldwide) is struggling to let go of old practices and renew old-old practices. We have to let go of $$ -driven decisions and replace them with enviro/quality-driven decisions and yet still keep in mind that the $$ underlies how our world works at this point.

Our future lies in our actions—one choice at a time. I’m positive that we are moving forward in a positive way, one step at a time.

With sites like this we can raise awareness, strengthen commitments, educate, and challenge each other to take another step in the direction of positive change—even if it is “simply” about plywood.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

myoldhouse is on the right track for sure though boys. We all need good quality wood products at a decent price. We have all bought machines made overseas. None of us is perfect. We do however, have to very concerned about the future of the environment. I would hate to think that one day we will be telling our children how you could go oustside and see trees actually growing instead of just in a tree ‘zoo’. If you think this is too far fetched you are not paying attention to the evidence. Global warming alone could make most hardwood forests a thing of the past in less then a hundred years. The wood we all cherish is, like it or not, going to become harder and harder to come by. We all need to do what we can now so our grandchildren can be Lumberjocks too.

Maybe I live a little too close to some of this. Here in Oregon we have thousands of people who used to work in the timber industry. At this point most of the them have been displaced and had to find new ways to make a living in places they detest. The environmental movement is mainly responsable for this. Every time the Forest Service trys to set up a timber sale the environmentalists file suits and all the Forest people get done is fight them. In the mean time we are having catastropic forest fires which are destroying the timber that can never be used. Sustainable forest practices are ignored and it is all aversarial. We have a fishing fleet on the Oregon coast which is rotting in the harbor and more displaced people. Here where I live family ranchers are spending a lot of money to fend off law suits which would take a way their livelyhood. These are not fly-by -night corporations but 4 and 5 generation family ranchers. Obviously, if you can use the land for 5 generations you are demonsrating pretty good stewardship.
I, myself have worked for sustainable practices in agriculture and grazing. Many I know have worked for sustainable forest practices. I was told that Tom Marvel of “Water for Life’ made the statement that their main objective was to tie up the BLM so they couldn’t get their work done. It seems that the environmental movement is based on negatives with very few positives. We seldom hear of anything but pseudo science that supports their position and never a viable alternative. From here it appears they will not be happy until no trees can be cut, no grazing is allowed and no one can fish. I think they also would like to only allow genuine cardcarrying environmentalists to have access to the public lands of the US. I’m not sure to do what as they seem to be against everything. It seems the evironmental organizations do not dare to declare a victory because the money would dry up.
Somewhere in all this common sense will prevail. We have to eat and it is pretty impractical to import all our food. We need lumber to build with. My son-in-law worked in the Boise-Cascade plywood mill in Elgin, Oregon. they never produced a piece of plywood that was good enough for anyting but sheeting. Try to buy a good American made plywood.
Am I concerned about the environment? You’d better believe I am! I’m watching excellent farm land going under houses In the Boise area. The reason for this is that everytime they try to move the houses on to the scab rock of the foothills, an environmental group raises hell and they go back to the farm land. The environmental groups never have anything to say about that. Like I said, we have to eat and farm ground with a house on it produces nothing. I’m concerned that our forests are burning because the fuelload is so high. I am concerned that conservation and sustainable practices have fallen by the wayside to be replaced by preservationism.
So, my friend, do what you think is right. If you think not buying Chinese products will help,l do it.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

Well said Thos. Angle

You bring up some very good points Thos.Angle.I too live in an area that is very heavily overgrown I deal with a company that goes and and tries to do thining on the government lands they are always dealing with fight of some sort from one group or another .People seem to forget we have gotten so well at preventing forest fires the forest does not get a chance to do what mother nature intended for natural fires to take care of.If you could see what the forest used to look like before our “management” you would see they were thinner and much healthier.I know we all need to do our part to help the environment but sometimes we seem to get a little overboard and do more damage.

-- Scott NM,http://www.shangrilawoodworks.com

Maybe after this fellow has picked your brains and determined the street prices for product he can use the extra money he takes in that is not tagged for environment compliance to undermine the local producers and drive them out of business.
Then he will no doubt endorse your little league baseball team and build that extra wing on the local hospitial for you too.
I’m all for an open door trading policy- don’t get me wrong here but… I demand a level playing field.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I hear you, Bob. But you can learn the prices by walking into a Lowe’s or Home Depot. I would also be interested in knowing where I could see some domestic produced plywood. 17 years ago I read the standards for A-B plywood. Only so many boat shaped repairs on the B side and no voids. I paid a high price for a sheet of domestic fir A-B ( Boise-Cascade)to top the work bench in my saddle shop. The first thing I noticed was that it had about 6 more patches on the B side than it was supposed to have. Oh, well, that side is down. I built the work bench and edge banded it. I put on several coats of poly. The first time I put a bench pad down and struck an end die I discovered a void the size of my hand. Since then I haven’t found any domestic A-B or anything else. I haven’t even seen any Canadian plywood. Does anyone have a list of U S or Canadian ply producers?

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

Thom:
The softwood lumber quarrel vs Canada and the U.S. devastated the forest industry here.
Many mills closed under the weight of 20 -30% tarrifs and the equipment was bought up by foreign purchasers.
While the bureaucrats fought and bungled on both sides of the border our plywood industry was decimated.
I still see loads of plywood layers going to the plant here in Edmonton but it is primarily for local building and no longer for export. – so much for Free Trade. <g>

I see train loads of lumber coming from Revelstoke and Golden in B.C. but they are headed east across Canada.
My experience with off shore ply is limited but I can tell you for certain that they are generally warped right on the lifts and not usable for either carcasses or frames.
It may be a difference in humidity vs where they are made or they are rushing them through the heat presses to save on heating costs.
I haven’t done a “dutchman count ” on the stuff around here as most is now flake board for construction and particle board over veneer in the project homes.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I know, Bob. It’s a crying shame what has happened to both the Canadian and U S lumber industries. I don’t even know where my ply comes from and am afraid to ask. I know most of the OSB I used cam from your part of the world.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

If you go into Lowes and look on the side of the plywood rack, you’ll see stamped on the side of the pile “Made in China,” all the way down the pile. This is on the birch and oak plywood ($45 a sheet).

What I have noticed (as Bob has pointed out) is the sheets are very noticeably warped – I’m talking about most of the stack. It never used to look like that. So, this “cabinet grade” plywood from China is really a much more inferior product.

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

”Here in Oregon we have thousands of people who used to work in the timber industry. At this point most of them have been displaced and had to find new ways to make a living in places they detest. The environmental movement is mainly responsable for this. Every time the Forest Service trys to set up a timber sale the environmentalists file suits and all the Forest people get done is fight them. In the mean time we are having catastropic forest fires which are destroying the timber that can never be used. Sustainable forest practices are ignored and it is all aversarial. We have a fishing fleet on the Oregon coast which is rotting in the harbor and more displaced people.” - Thos. Angle

Isn’t is it amazing what a few deranged people can accomplish?

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

It is just sad… and those very people complain about us importing from other countries yet they prevent us from doing business here… Idealism costs us all more than I care to think about. Radicals are radicals because our system allows for their strategy to work.

Drew

-- Drew, Pleasant Grove, Utah

Boys, let me tell you something; thank God we live in a nation free enough that all voices can be heard!! some of those voices may be wrong but at least we can all be heard and reason will prevail. Far better than the places where the idiots have taken over and allow no disentsion. God bless the USA and Canada as well.

Tom, I think that may be the result of humidity in your area. Here the 3/4 ply in Oak and Birch seems to be better. Not perfect but not as bad as you describe. However, I’m still looking for an alternative. The poplar I get from my supplier is somewhat better than what is at Lowe’s. I can’t recomend the Tuckernut.

Another thing that came to my mind today; most of the business that has gone overseas has been perpetrated by manufacturers from the US and Canada. It is mostly driven by high labor costs here. If you watch a site named Industrial Recovery Services Auctions. You will see whole furniture plants being auctioned off at pennies on the dollar. The reason is that they are shifting their manufacturing overseas and it is cheaper to re-tool over in China than it is to ship the machinery over. So, it is not necessarily the fault of the Chinese. I sure hope Mason has gotten his ears full from all this.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

extremists take us to a new level of quality…. in anything (as far as I can see) we seem to swing far to the extreme to make the change and then slowly settle down to a medium ground. Without the extremists we wouldn’t be where we are today. With companies such as Weyerhauser doing their bit re: sustainability of wood, following the message that the extremists have shouted, we will find a way to care for our forests, use our forests, and benefit ourselves AND Mother Nature.. in a very positive manner.

And I’m guessing that somewhere in the future there will be a quality plywood that is the best combination of cheaper materials/processes along with the best environmental practices AND the best quality.. we just have to stumble through the “finding it” stages.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Good thoughts, Debbie, the pendelum effect. I hope someone hurries up with the plywood!!

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I am looking forward to the day when some of our manufacturing moves back onshore, with woodworking being one of them. Sure, there will always be imports. But, we need to learn how to build some of these things ourselves. Afterall, how can we expect to build great engineering marvels when we can not even put a couple of 2×4’s together?

I expect that pendulum will swing back, and some things will return. I also think that quality will come back in vogue too. Imagine, buying a piece of furniture that will last more than a few seasons. Well, we all can dream at least.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

Whats going to happen is that now that China’s markets are open and it’s citizenry are getting more accustomed to how the rest of the developed world lives it is only a matter of time before the huge government tax subsidies/surpluses and profits for the business owners start to get whittled down due to the higher wage demands of their citizenry. They are going to be our biggest competition for their own goods as the demand rises domestically so will the wages of the employees there. We have enjoyed the inexpensive labor market there for a while but like in the 70-80’s made in Japan was a sign of poor quality and now it is not the same will go for China… it will take a bit longer as the country is unimaginably huge but that just means unreal demand from within as well. I suspect that within 20 years we will have the same conversation again about all the cheap goods and lack of care for the environmend caused by out of control unregulated business and manufacturing growth in africa and 3rd world south america.

-- Drew, Pleasant Grove, Utah

I am looking to make some plaques out of 3/4 inch plywood as discussed above. I looked at Lowes and saw warped/cheap plywood as described above. I have a local lumber yard nearby that stocks a poplar core plywood with oak, cherry or birch veneer and am wondering how the edges on something like this will look if I take a router to them? Can I expect to hit “voids?” If I do, could they be filled/patched with wood putty or something like that? Also, will they seal up well (that is, not warp over time) if I cover them with a couple of coats of polyurethane? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

-- John R. - Richmond, Ohio, "With God, all things are possible"

I would suggest you cover the edges with regular wood. You can glue wood on the edges, and then finish those off for a better looking plaque. You could attach the wood with just glue, or biscuits, dominos, or one of the plywood edge router bits. It will cover all the layers, and make it look more like a solid piece instead.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

A couple of years ago a group of us took a trip to SC to see the Columbia Wood Products operation. I can guarantee that they still make plywood here in the states. When we were there they were making oak veneered ply.

We also went to one of their mills where they cut hardwoods. The chiefs told us about the difficulty in getting good hardwoods as it is all being sold to, or bought by, China.

Very interesting process at both plants. You don’t want to work there.

The only thing more boring than making plywood is being a green stick sorter at a lumber mill. Boy, their upper arms and pects are immense.

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

Thanks , X. I’ll see if I can find some. (Minutes later) I looked it up and there is a dealer in the Boise Area. I’ll call them tomorrow.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

Thank you for feedbacks , some of which are very important .
Best Regards!

In my work I use 3-4 units (150-200 sheets) per year. We have a great distributer who really works to get us a low bid, you guessed it, low bid was an import from China. The stuff he got us was returned for the following reasons:
Veneer was uneven, one end was good, other end was so thin you could’nt sand at all.
Brittle faces, chipped off no matter how careful cutting.
Too many voids.
Once cut ,within a few days the pieces warped and curled so bad they couldn’t be used.
Very poor surface quality.
Serious problems with delamination.

I am not saying all of the plywood from China is bad, but it works better for us to spend a little more money up front, than to have to do a job over. Our distributer has been informed not to consider any plywood from China when getting us a bid.

I am talking about AA stain grade Birch.

-- Dave Idaho

This is an interesting blog. Someone made the same comparison I was thinking about—How “Made in Japan,” was a symol of poor craftsmanship back ion teh early 60’s, but now it stands for better quality than most anywhere else.

MASON, Take a lesson from the Japanese—if you will get beyond your predjudices—focus on quality control!!
Produce products that will stand up over time, not just get you quick profits now. We all have power tools that are made in China. The Rikon tools, the Ridgid tools, Craftsman, Ryobi, Dewalt, Porter Cable, etc, etc! But, all these are manufactured under stricter quality controls than the generic Chinese tools that you find on Ebay.

Mason, the diference is QUALITY CONTROL! Once you start implementing a stronger, more consistent level of quality in your work so that it will withstand wear and tear and last more than a month or a year, you will have a product I will be happy to purchase.

God Bless,
Hawg

-- Saving barnwood from the scrapyards

very funny comments…........still chuckling at the melamine one.

all the big plywood wholesalers were really flogging this chinese plywood. Claiming it was great, not just great but inexpensive. I notice that they have all discontinued it, the great became not so great and inexpensive turned out to be cheap.

what I thought was really cool about, was that some parts of the same sheet of plywood were 5/8”, some 1/2” and some plus or minus both making it quite a challage to machine. I’ve seen flater oceans.

Regards

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

Wow, I think someone opened up a real smelly can of worms! This china plywood is not the best & that’s a fact! What we need to look at is you get what you pay for! Our current work force in this country is fast going away from the standards our fore fathers developed. Hell we can’t even whip our kids buts anymore to get their attention. This seems to allow today’s children to run amuck & creates a society that really does not follow any standards. Our work force is getting lazy and always wanting more money which then increases the cost to produce & starts the problems we all face today. I work in the construction industry & I see all the Mexicans on the job sites. People believe me they work harder and longer than most of the Americans I see out there! The problem is they come here without any real understanding of our building standards & try to adapt as best as possible while working for a much cheaper rate which creates poor quality products (see where I am going with this?). I don’t like them taking our jobs anymore than the next guy but lets be real they are not taking our jobs we are giving them away! The kids today (the ones you cant correct out of fear) DO NOT WANT labor intense jobs, they want the high pay with low physical demands. This is what creates the need for plywood from china & Mexicans building our country. People lets get back to the basics & start teaching our children the the need for hard sweaty work & make them understand (insert the butt whipping part here!) the need for it & what the life long rewards are from it. Hence the cheap poor quality plywood from china. I use it on some projects but not because I want to, because that’s all I can afford some times! This china plywood is great for building prototypes and ironing out all of the kinks before you use the expensive products when you are making more than one of a single project. I have found that home depot carries a birch faced plywood made in china for $24.98 a sheet & if you spend the time to look thru the stack you can find some pretty good sheets that will work some of the time. Lets just quit worrying about what we cannot change & change what we can & see if things get a little better! So mason here is what I think of china plywood & to everyone else on all the other topics discussed in this forum lets pool our resources & devise a plan to make our country strong again & stop letting the cry babies (enviromental,religious,political) dictate how we have to live. I hope my comments do not offend anyone they are just my opinions.

-- Bob "life is one big school & we are the students"

Amen

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

I don’t want to add fuel to the fire, just when things were settling down but I also can’t let this go by without making a brief comment: there’s a lot more behind responsible adults than butt whipping. Looking behind the whipping part, what I see you saying is that we need to be teaching our children about responsibility, about setting and striving to reach goals, about respect for the quality of work that they produce, about having passions in live…

We’ve talked about the value of woodworking with children a lot, here at LJ. There are just so many lessons (perseverance, following a project to an end, pride, etc) that a child will learn through working with wood. When frustrated, take your child out to the workshop (and not to feel a piece of lumber on his butt) but to feel it in his hands as he transforms it into something beautiful.)

Ok.. getting off the bandwagon now and heading to the shop to continue working on my “Save The Children” project :)

No offense intended .. the mother, early childhood educator, and Life Guide in me “needed” to re-state the values that you pointed out in a more positive manner.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

My personal view is that the huge bureaucracies we are allowing to emerge under the guise of Government are insatiable when it comes to regulation and control.
The average company in Canada now need a full time liaison employee just to deal with he latest “whim” of these control freaks and to avoid huge penalties include confiscation of bank account and company assets for “non compliance”.
Each time pick up a new paper you will see yet another move by these pundit to control the economy.
Bureaucracy is a giant mechanism operated by pygmies.
They command the highest wages per hour worked of any labour group on the planet and every nickel paid to them must be earned by the taxpayers and businesses in addition to managing their own affairs.

They claim to be doing all this for our own good????

”A government that seizes control of the economy for the good of the people, ends up seizing control of the people for the good of the economy ”

Just look at what bureaucracy has done to Russia and as yourself if big brother is not more present than say 1980?
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be
the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under
omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep,
his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience.” —Clive Staples Lewis (1898-1963)

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Hey, I use birch Chinaply I get at HD or Lowe’s, it’s junk lots of voids thin veneer, but for most shop cabinets, jigs and things it’s well worth the money, Just sweat a little and pick through the pile, but like the Kansas WW Mark above I get sniffles when I cut it, scared to think whats in it.
But my Chineese melamine smells like dog food and my dog food smells like melamine! go figure.
Mark

-- MARK IN BOB, So. CAL

Sorry deb my fuse got lit. I might have overstated a bit but the jist came across!

-- Bob "life is one big school & we are the students"

no problem.. gotta love “passion” :)

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Absolute Junk!

A few weeks a go I started a shop project, to build cabinets and bases in my wood shop (garage) for storage and organization. I bought 2 sheets to get me started. I noted that I had to dig thru nearly every sheet in the bundle to find just two that had even one good side, I figured since it was just shop cabinets I could put the poor side on the inside so I proceeded and found that with EVERY cut the super thin veneer chips away from the ply, not splintering but actual chipping I assume from the poor bond of the veneer. Then to find that the voids and loose or unglued plys were excessive. Took the uncut sheet back to HD and returned it and was surprised to note that their attitude was such that “This is what we offer – take or leave it” they just don’t care at all about customer satisfaction or quality, just cheaper….every sheet stamped on the end Made in China.

I will buy no more…..the quality of the product is substandard and the extra time spent repairing the splits and voids prior to use or the second trip to return this junk cost more in the end than the price they sell it for.

The moral of the story…......
“Made in China” translates loosely to “Just Walk Away”

-- So Much Wood - So Little Time! --

I won’t use it! I’ll make my own(American) first!!!

-- Jesus is Lord!

Thank you for all your feedbacks .
I have read all your posts , which are important .

Knothead, I’m sorry to hear your story . Can you send some photos of these plywoods to me ? I want to know what kinds of Chinese plywood you have used .

There are some grades of plywood .
The end uses of different grades are different, too .
Good grades can be used for furniture , low/utility grades can be used for packing only. When you buy plywood, please pay your attention on the grade of plywood(the grade of appearance, core, glue ).
Factories usually produce plywood according to customers quality requirement .

It all comes down to you get what you paid for…I personally like to support US made products but in the end I will buy the best quality no matter who makes it. I NEVER but plywood from HD or Lowes..it is pure junk. You can pick through the pile till you hit concrete, its all crap. Go to a real wood seller or cabinet shop….even the small shops will put some cash in their pockets and sell you a few sheets. And even their shop/paint grade stuff is way better than what you get at the big boxes. When I worked in a cabinet shop we used to get “bad” batches of plywood from our big distributor…plys would separate or there would be ridiculous scratches in the veneer. We would put them aside, the rep would come down and inspect them, give us credit and buy us all lunch to kiss up to us for our troubles..but then again we were giving him thousands of dollars in sales. Its tougher to get that kind of satisfaction if your only buying a few sheets! The way things are going these days I wouldn’t trust anything thats made in China….

-- Women love me.....trees fear me

all you said is useful to me.i’m from chinese plywood industry. i know what kind of plywood woodworkers need now. Chinese plywood industry is controlled by foreign importers,especially USA importers,we produce what they want. We also want sell good quality plywood in world market, but it means higher cost.

-- china

Well after reading everything here, I have used Chinese and French plywood, and OSB, in roofing deck and T & G flooring, and made our wholesaler take back the majority of the product after a short period and replace it with either Canadian or American products. It was either too thin or too many voids….....that doesn’t work well in roofing or flooring. Everyone here has a lousy experience…...try selling it to someone that is forking out 20 million dollars for a product!