It's official, B&D is taking Delta down

Don’t even get me started on the new Unisaw.

That bad? I haven’t seen one.

What concerns me about that is for all these years the parts haven’t changed much, thus you could always get them. Now I fear because they’re no longer the same that will end and probably be accelerated because that isn’t B&D’s business model. I.E. to support their products for as long.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

one thought could be that they are planning to direct more sales to online suppliers… but speaking for myself – especially with machinery and large tools – I like to get a feel for them at the local store and see their fit, controls, size, and all before I’ll make a purchase. kinda sucks to hear that though for Delta losing those sale channels.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I agree PurpLev, I want to see them and touch them and I don’t want to pay $200+ freight. Did that only once with my 8” Star jointer, but I bought two, a buddy wanted one too, so I swung a deal on both and on the freight.

When I bought my DJ-20 they had one on display but none in stock so they had to order it but I didn’t have to pay the freight.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

I agree that B&D is bringing them down, but also I suspect that the Aces of the world really don’t sell that many stationary tools. People do indeel like to touch and feel them at ACE, Woodcraft etc, but once they decide they like it they start looking online and finding the tools on Amazon, Woodworkers Supply or Tool King and ordering, often on special discounts and with free shipping, directly to the house and sometimes without sales taxes.
People often talk about buying local, but in the end go bargain hunting…........then to Walmart and Harbor Freight.

-- Its never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.

Dave, it’s a buyers market. It’s the nature of the beast for a buyer to look for the same product for the least amount of out-of-pocket change possible.

with that in mind – I just bought a new table saw, and of the saws that I was considering buying, the local stores around me proved to have the best price/service even against the online sellers. so – I guess if you really want to -you can compete and draw buyers to your store- maybe not for every item in your stock, but you can definitely try your best. apparently – some are successful at doing so.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

The 6 Ace’s I am referring to did, I bought my Unisaw, DJ-20, and bandsaw from one and no internet price could beat the price on any of those three, and again, no freight costs, Then a friend bought his Unisaw at that same Ace and again the price could not be beat.

Last year another friend bought his Unisaw and DJ-20 at the other Ace I still need to check out and again, the price couldn’t be beat.

They do volume, and they are big stores, they’re not you’re typical strip mall 10,000 sq ft hardware stores, like I said they cater to contractors and professionals and they deal.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

My experience has been the opposite, but I think it is mainly due to the size of the community. We have True Value and Ace here in Salina, and they are notvery competitive. They sell lots of Chopsaws, small drill presses routers etc. But long ago stopped carrying hybrid and cabinet saws, so mainly are catering to construction and trim carpenters. I think is has a lot to do with inventory turnover. If you are in a community of 50,000 people, you aren’t selling 20 unisaws a month, but still need to keep the store open. If the store is only selling one a month or less, they cannot compete just as the mom and pops struggle against a giant like a Walmart.

What I don’t understand is why this is not an issue for Powermatic which is a higher price point, and Jet which is on par with Delta. I agree with blankman that when this is just about Delta Dropping products from its lineup there is a very insidius problem at Delta Management.

-- Its never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.

Yep, Dave I see your point, I’m lucky to live in an area that offers that competition factor. Even at that Ace when I bought my dust collector and chop saw I didn’t pay the sticker price. I got the store manager over and started wheeling and dealing. I’ve never paid sticker price for any of the large machine I bought. Unfortunately I see people are stuck with freight costs in order to get a good deal.

I learned a long time ago in a business law class in college that the price of an item in a store is not the price you have to pay it’s an invitation to barter. Some commerce l law if I remember correctly. Don’t know if that’s still on the books but people will look at you like your crazy but that’s what it was and I’‘ve used it to my advantage.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

I work in the tool department at Lowes part time and we were told that Lowe’s was dropping the Delta tool line. I do not know if this is nation wide or just our region.

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

Judgeing by the Delta 36-979 Contractors saw that our local Lowes had on display for over a year, I can see why. I could of assembled the saw better blind folded.

I have the 36-979 and I love it. It works fantastic for me. I know exactly what you mean about the Lowe’s assemblers though. The floor model was in rough shape.

-- Sponsored by craigslist brand power tools!

This is a good thread because I was wondering the same thing myself. Yesterday I hit a couple of local woodworking stores Woodcraft and Klingspors’ Woodworking Store and noticed the same thing. The only Delta item sold at either store was an older Unisaw being sold at a clear out price. Between the two stores there was alot of Jet, Powermatic, Steel City, Shop Fox but no Delta.

I also wonder what’s up ?

-- -JimmyC...Clayton,NC- "Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"

Seriously? With Pentair going out of its way to cheapen the brand you think B&D is going to ruin it? I’m shocked its not already ruined. B&D can’t be worse for it than Pentair was

marcb, Pentair actually did pretty good, they actually resurrected the Porter-Cable name back in ‘81 I think that Rockwell dropped.

And most of my Delta machines were purchased in the Pentair era and I’ve got no complaints. Unisaw, drum sander, bandsaw, 12” disc sander, mortiser, sharpening center, all well constructed and function well. I’ve had some issues with damaged parts on delivery on occasion but Delta was quick to send a replacement part, no serial number needed no proof of purchase needed. I’ve had a missing part or two on accessory purchases and again, they sent the missing part when I reported it.

Porter-Cable too, I’ve got a bunch of 690’s and their 3-1/4HP models and pretty near all their nailers, all Pentair era and I’ve yet to have a problem with any of them.

So from my perspective, Pentair did good, much better the Rockwell, and it appears now better then B&D too.

Go check out the products offered on Delta’s web site, compound miter saws are gone, jointers have lost all the entry lever models like the 6” JT360, the JT160 is a joke. Lathes are down to one, benchtop models gone, and for people that make small stuff like pens, that was a nice machine. The sharpening center’s gone. They’ve still got a lot of table saws, maybe that the direction B&D wants Delta to go.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

I woud ceratainly agree with the overall quality of Delta going down the tube. I’m not sure about the availability issues others have brought up. I was at my uncle’s a few weeks back, doing some work, and his old commercial line Delta planer messed up. (started making a funy noise then stopped running in forward direction, would run in reverse) he took it to a local tool center (Delta dealer) that performs repairs they told him that parts were no longer available for this model and many others that were considered as “older” (his was mfg in 1990) Just one example of how they have shifted to making cheap throw-away tools made in china

So your argument is because they started using the old Porter Cable name and introduced an entire line of rebadged Chinese junk they rocked?

You can’t argue quality based on single machine experience. That’s the no 1 reason why magazine reviews are horrid especially when they make quality claims. “The XYZ Contractor saw is well built” By that they mean the one that was hand picked to be sent to the reviewer was built well. Statistically irrelevant, and a poor way to attempt to educate people.

You also realize that Rockwell bought Delta in the 40’s right, so they where the force behind Delta for about 40 years. Pentair didn’t even hang onto the name for 25 years, and most of those years where spent moving Manufacturing over to Taiwan and then China. While not changing the consumer cost.

B&D is working using basic business principles. If it doesn’t make money get rid of it. Everything they’re dropping is basically the same machine you can buy under a different name made in the same factory in China (Which was a Pentair decision)

Ever wonder why B&D could buy out a profitable business? They didn’t, Pentair wanted out, and had been slicing into product unit cost for 3 years in an attempt to regain profitability.

If ACE is dropping the entire line of Delta products based on the fact that they can’t sell the customer only Delta they’re doing the customer a disservice. ACE is the one you should be angry at here. They will only offer JET even when Delta is a better choice for a specific machine.

Considering the time it takes to really take something over, lead time due to Engineering for new (and actually designed) products. Your really only seeing B&D’s decisions starting to take hold from their purchase 5 years ago. Most of what you saw between 2004 and 2007 was probably due to Pentair decisions working they’re way through the channels.

I’d have to agree with some of what Marc said. One day after seeing the Delta 36-979 Contractor’s saw in such poor assembly at Lowes for so long, I asked one of the salesman about the saws, he said he couldn’t remember the last time he sold the Delta, the Hitachi was a better seller because it came with a fence and it was quite a bit cheaper. Well no wonder he can’t remember the last time he sold one, he wasn’t pushing them, and he probably put the Delta display model together too. They had a jewel under their nose and didn’t know it. My father never was a big fan of Black and Decker, but then again, they did do something right, I think the DeWalt line has been an absolute gold mine for them, it should be interesting. As far as any company that maunufactures overseas I can’t be too overly happy about seeing those jobs lost. We may or maynot be geting some stuff cheaper, but it’s costing us all in several ways in the end, well, except for maybe the CEO.

I guess I really don’t care if they’re Chinese junk as you refer to it (well I do as far as the American jobs lost, that does p me off), as long as they’re up to my expectations, which are rather high. Funny thing though, I just went and looked at all my Porter-Cable routers bought during the Pentair era and they all say, Made in USA.

The nailers say Made in Taiwan, I’d rather they said Made in USA but we’re stuck with that.

I don’t pin quality or reputation based on one product, I’ve got 18 Porter-Cable products, all Pentair era, and like I think I said, I’ve had no problems with any of them to date. Hope I didn’t just jinx myself.

The reason those Ace’s are dropping the Delta line is because Delta is dropping what they sold the most of, I think I said that. If you can’t get what you can sell how is that a disservice? Maybe B&D is doing the disservice by dropping the items that sell, which appear to be the entry level items.

Actually, I’ve yet to have any Delta or Porter-Cable Pentair era item break, that is what I pin quality and reputation on. Can’t say the same for DeWalt though. I like DeWalt, I have a lot of DeWalt, but I’ve had issues.

But B&D branded stuff, I don’t consider them. It appears to me, from experience, they’re made expendable, so you’ll have to buy another someday… Maybe that’s good from a business standpoint, but to me, that’s a disservice. And it’s that mindset I fear B&D will push onto Delta and Porter-Cable.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

Buy the old stuff and tune it up. A machine built in the 50’s has a shelf life of 10,000 years except for belts, bearings and armatures!

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

Blankman is dead on about the quality of their tools in the “Pentair era.” I’ll go further in to this on Monday.

BTW, do any of you think the Delta line sold at the big box were not made specifically for them and the “buy it as cheap as I can get it” crowd?

We need to talk about reality!

-- http://www.federalsaw.com

You mean the Delta 36-979 at Lowes is different from any other Delta 36-979 ? Thats a little far fetched I think.