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Forum topic by Rkulp89 posted 01-26-2015 02:06 PM 873 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Rkulp89

10 posts in 684 days


01-26-2015 02:06 PM

I just moved into my first home and finally have a garage that I can build a workshop in. I have been shopping for a table saw for a couple months now and think I have narrowed down my choices between a 110 grizzly hybrid (G0771 / G0715P) or a 220 cabinet (G1023RL / G0691). I have searched Craigslist every day for a used saw but the used market here in Vegas is not very good. I am a beginner hobbyist and will be using the saw to build furniture/cabinets for the new house.

I think the hybrid saws would be good enough for my needs but I would hate to buy twice, so if I had a real 220 outlet in the garage I would probably pony up the extra cash for the cabinet saws.

My problem is the previous home owner tapped into the 220 ran for the hvac air condensers. He said you have to turn the ac off to use the outlet and also install 40 amp tube fuses at the receptacle. The 220 line is on a 30 amp breaker so I’m not sure what the heck he was trying to do with the 40 amp fuses. The home inspector said it was definitely not cool what he did but neither of us has had a look to see how he really wired everything. I’m still in the process of moving so I haven’t had the time to see how things are wired.

If this is safe outlet to use, I think I will go with the cabinet saw. If the 220 is not usable, I will remove it and probably go with the hybrid. The breaker panel is on the opposite side of the house and would require I run conduit around the house and under the patio…. More work and money then I want to dig into.

I would appreciate opinions/suggestions on the current electrca situation and what you would do if you were in my position.

Thanks for reading this if you made it this far! Truly appreciated.


21 replies so far

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3668 posts in 1188 days


#1 posted 01-26-2015 03:49 PM

Is the purchase contingent on the home inspection? If so make the seller fix the problem or knock $5K off the offer.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3950 posts in 1961 days


#2 posted 01-26-2015 03:59 PM

It sounds like there is one breaker that powers both the AC and this receptacle (?). If you tried running both at the same time (I’m also not sure what the fuse thing is all about) they would trip the breaker (just a guess). Your question was “is it safe?”. Probably, but I wouldn’t use it that way, at least not for very long. I agree about having the seller fix it, but since that may not be an option talk to an electrician. If you intend to have a workshop, you might want a little more power anyway, so a sub panel in the garage (or somewhere accessible) would be a worthwhile investment and provide the power you will eventually want anyway. Having it done before you move in makes life a little easier.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Lumberpunk's profile

Lumberpunk

323 posts in 1804 days


#3 posted 01-26-2015 04:29 PM

It cost me $40 and about 2 hours to put a 220V receptacle in my shop (breaker box in shop). If you have room on your panel you could unhook the 220 in the garage from the HVAC and hook it up to a new breaker very easily. Or get an electrician to do it I doubt it would take one more than an hour.

-- If someone tells you you have enough tools and don't need any more, stop talking to them, you don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

View Rkulp89's profile

Rkulp89

10 posts in 684 days


#4 posted 01-26-2015 05:26 PM

I bought the home in December and have already moved in.

The main panel is on the opposite side of the house, if I want to run a sub panel it will cost big bucks. I would also have to trench around the house and under the patio to reach the garage. I really would like the extra power for an assortment of tools but I think the cost for the sub panel will exceed the cost of the saw and I’m not sure if I want to sink that much money into the garage at the moment.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4245 posts in 1666 days


#5 posted 01-26-2015 05:32 PM

I wouldn’t use that setup.. rip it out so it’s back to normal. There are plenty of saws out there, from benchtops to cabinet saws, that will run on 110V. Some 220V machines can be switched to 110V as well, just by switching a couple of wires in the motors junction box. You will be limited to about a 1.5hp model though, which isn’t really a problem unless you plan on ripping really large/heavy stock frequently. Just check the amperage requirement on the motor to make sure it’s not exceeding your outlets capabilities.. most residential outlets are 15A, with some occasionally 20A.

Alternatively, do you have a clothes dryer in that area? You can use the outlet for the dryer which is typically a 30A circuit. If it’s even remotely close to where you want to use the saw, a short extension cord can be made.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View agallant's profile

agallant

530 posts in 2354 days


#6 posted 01-26-2015 05:36 PM

Can you run the wire up in to the attic and back down in to the garage? A dedicated 220 in the garage is a nice thing to have. You may consider a plug in car some day.

View Rkulp89's profile

Rkulp89

10 posts in 684 days


#7 posted 01-26-2015 05:45 PM

The dryer is gas and I’ve already been in the attic hoping for an easy route. There is almost no room to move around due separate duct work for each floor, also very low overhead clearance and no subfloor besides for a small patch you can sit on by the furnaces. The outside route looks to be the better option but even the cost of the wire itself is making it seem unpractical.

View KDO's profile

KDO

145 posts in 2237 days


#8 posted 01-26-2015 05:46 PM

There are thousands of us who use a 110 tablesaw everyday and don’t have any issues. A 110 saw should handle almost anything you would likely throw at it.
If the cost to get 240 is really high, just buy a good 110volt saw. It isn’t a “Bad Choice.”
I know many guys that do woodworking for a living and only use 110 volt tools.

-- Christian, Husband, Grandpa, Salesman, amateur Woodworker.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 953 days


#9 posted 01-26-2015 05:59 PM

thats a big no-no. Rip the receptacle out or cap it off on both ends.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1114 posts in 2411 days


#10 posted 01-26-2015 06:46 PM

bigblockyeti is right. The circuit needs to be dedicated for both the saw and the HVAC.

I just moved my kitchen stove to the other side of the kitchen. I had to run a new line between the box and the stove. Wire nuts just don’t cut it in a sixty amp circuit. Of course, this also allowed me to replace the aluminum line that was feeding the stove before.

View Rob's profile

Rob

704 posts in 2538 days


#11 posted 01-26-2015 07:03 PM

If you’re buying a house, the cost of installing a subpanel is negligible in comparison to the cost of the house itself, and may not be as expensive as you think. To install a 60A subpanel 80 ft. from my main panel in the basement, along with (4) 120V receptacles and (2) 240V receptacles in the garage, my electrician quoted around $1200.

Either make him fix it as bigblockyeti suggested, or get several quotes to fix it and put in a proper subpanel or dedicated circuit, and ask the seller to give you a credit in the amount of the highest quote to cover that expense (you buy the house at the agreed-upon amount, but the seller gives you back enough money to cover the work that needs to be done).

-- Ask an expert or be the expert - http://woodworking.stackexchange.com

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Rkulp89

10 posts in 684 days


#12 posted 01-26-2015 07:13 PM

The home has already been purchased. I am going to have the outlet removed and AC put back they way it was. I’ll get a couple quotes for a sub panel but I’m thinking it will cost close to 2k and there are other things I would like to do with the house before dropping that kind of cash on 220.

Hopefully the PO connected directly to the exterior breaker and left the original wiring untouched.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1063 posts in 1457 days


#13 posted 01-26-2015 07:26 PM

Sounds like the purchase is done. You may be able to force the seller to undo what is not to code, if it’s worth it.

Where does the added 220V line run? Did the prev owner run it to the garage? While tapping off the HVAC fuse is a no-no ( and needs to be removed), is there room in the existing panel to install breakers for the 220v? Possible to use the wire he ran? Just thinking it may be possible to salvage some of what the guy did. On the other hand, my 110v Bosch 4100 does just fine cutting at full depth, so no, 220v is not required.

How many circuits do you have in your garage? Most, like mine, only have one (plus a light circuit). I run a properly sized extension cord from another circuit, because I circuit doesn’t cut it when trying to run a machine, dust collector, and heater at the same time. You may want some additional power in the garage anyway, whether 220v or not.

View Rkulp89's profile

Rkulp89

10 posts in 684 days


#14 posted 01-26-2015 07:39 PM

There are 2 breakers on the 30amp line ran to the AC. One at the main panel and one right next to the AC unit itself which is located right behind the garage. He tied into the breaker that is located behind the garage so I can’t use any of what he did.

The single AC breaker (not the main panel breaker) is mounted to the exterior wall of the garage, so all he did was cut a hole in the drywall inside the garage directly behind the breaker and connected his outlet. At least this is what it looks like and how he explained it to me.

If he connected his wires directly to the single breaker, I should be able to remove them and everything will be back to how it was originally.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2326 posts in 1764 days


#15 posted 01-26-2015 07:48 PM

As said above a 110 volt saw with a good fence and a quality blade will do everything you said you want to do. In fact a track saw or panel saw will be a more efficient way to cut down sheet goods for a one man shop. BUT – a dedicated shop panel is an investment in your safety and capabilities and makes the house more valuable when you sell. A good electrician and helper can bang it out in a day. Estimates are usually free so get a recommendation from a friend and just call and talk it out. Also an electrician can just get the box to the shop, add the necessary one receptacle below it to pass code and you can take it from there if you can do electrical work.

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