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The next time I hear "They don't make 'em like they used to"...

2K views 20 replies 18 participants last post by  HMWWAWCC 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
In short, the reason things today are lighter or thinner or plastic or otherwise not overbuilt is because they don't need to be. 50 years ago when folks were buying table saws and drills and other tools they were buying enormous hunks of steel and cast iron that were engineered according to old technology; guys sitting at drafting tables, engineers using slide rules and inferior alloys - obviously they weren't using alloys that didn't exist then. Yeah, I know there are still those around that can calculate to a tiny fraction of a decimal pretty much as quickly and accurately or more so than I can with a calculator, but they cannot compete with the computer I'm typing this on. They couldn't model tools and machines with the same timeliness, technical accuracy and with far less financial investment as is done today. So why would I want a 500 pound tool made 30 or 40 years ago that only weighs 300 pounds as manufactured today because of aluminum and titanium and stronger alloys and ballistic plastics? So, heavy and thick and bulky, you know got a strong, durable tool? How about the crash test pitting a late 50's auto against what looks like a doomed 2010 model? Testing proved though the late model vehicle was lighter with more plastic and therefore presumably an inferior product the driver of the 50's model would've succumbed to a number of fatal injuries while the driver of the late model vehicle would have walked away with hardly a scratch. It's a startling but striking credit to modern engineering and manufacturing. Granted, cast iron has it's purpose in tools. Just don't try and persuade me a tool has to be a hunk of iron or for that matter engineered and manufactured somewhere in Europe to be a good tool.
 
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#4 ·
Just don t try and persuade me a tool has to be a hunk of iron or for that matter engineered and manufactured somewhere in Europe to be a good tool.

- Chuck Jones

Ok….

- DIYaholic

That s fine by me also.

- Rick
I concur.
 
#7 ·
Just don t try and persuade me a tool has to be a hunk of iron or for that matter engineered and manufactured somewhere in Europe to be a good tool.

- Chuck Jones

Ok….

- DIYaholic

That s fine by me also.

- Rick

I concur.

- Gene Howe
Agreed.
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
While I can agree in aspects I have to disagree on others.

Yes superior technology, materials, science, engineering, etc… all exist and could be used to build better equipment but all this gets trumped. You can't take out consumers demand cheap replaceable objects and companies need continual profits. Take in the added manufacturing competition (world wide) that never really existed in the "like it use to days" and you get another force driving companies to make goods just good enough.

If company EZ Table Saw makes the best table saw ever that will last through your great grandchild how much would they need to sell it for in order to stay a viable company for long haul. Yes other breakthroughs will exist but will it much improve that awesome saw you bought from them prior. So it is 20 lbs lighter, more efficient etc, will it get us to part ways with some cash to get it?
 
#14 ·
There is a lot going for old iron and the look is great. A lot of them are solid and heavy and dampen out vibrations.

But…....there are things missing. One is the lack of a riving knife. I think this is quite important especially for new woodworking and really for everyone. Another is dust collection which lacks on old machines. And lastly, very few have blade guards. Yes, I know, the majority of people take the blade guards off their saws
 
#15 ·
The problem is that there is relatively few new pieces of equipment that are actually quality. And the ones that are, are typically pricey. You have a lot of crap you have to sort through. But, of that quality equipment that is new, I'd wager to say that it is better than the iron of old.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
I would venture to guess that todays machines are not designed to be massive heavy 1000 lb chunks of iron because that would cost a hell of a lot more than 70 pounds of aluminum and "ballistic" plastic.
And you will sell 100,000 units of those 70 lb little cheap ass tool shaped things before you could sell 100 of those big chunks of iron. Don't delude yourself into thinking the little cheapos are better though.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Most of my stuff is industrial wadkin machinery.I have a large wadkin dimension saw with a full sliding table wadkin, a good bit more modern than the one you show here . However some of these old machines were made before we discovered good quality heavy duty sheet steel with lots of modern welded corner bracing, which was not thought of then. Everyone thought you needed a large hefty cast iron machine to cut down and dampen vibration.They still are great old machines .I think you will find once in situ , they will work all day long.
It seems it is just the manouvering them into place and setting them up is backbreaking work, I know.
My machine had to be taken completely apart every nut and bolt .Then moved ,I E carried up a steep path and then round behind my house then up a flight of steps and another trip up a steep path, before squeezing it with a few mm to spare into my wood shop, and rebuilt up from grouind up.This was all done by my 3 sons god bless them. Even my relatively modern one is around six hundred killos + without all the add ons.It has two motors the main one is seven and a half horse power, braked, and the smaller scoring blade has a motor around a half horse power to a horse power.The main blade on mine takes up to sixteen inch blade which I use often.
The accuracy is second to none.Alistair ps my son sold this exact model shown here to a guy in Ireland a few weeks ago.
 
#19 ·
There is very little new when it comes to alloys. In fact one of the most used (and strongest) aircraft aluminum alloys, 7075, was invented during world war 2.

What has really advanced is manufacturing methods and structural analysis. Only so many engineering problems can be solved analytically for an exact solution, complex shapes, forget about it. With the cheap processing power we have now complex shapes can be modeled and structures can be optimized to make a structure just as strong but much lighter.
 
#20 ·
Weight in machinery has a purpose and that is vibration dampening. If we're talking tables saws, I always look at the weight and give preference to the heavier machine, all things being equal, which they never are, but I see weight in machinery as being a positive.
 
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