LumberJocks

what have we learned

  • Advertise with us

« back to Coffee Lounge forum

Forum topic by kiwi1969 posted 1951 days ago 872 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View kiwi1969's profile

kiwi1969

609 posts in 2043 days


1951 days ago

Heard this on Radio New Zealand national on the web today sent in by another listener. Thought it was timely given the climate.
Question. What have we learned in two millenia?
” The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public dept should be reduced and the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled least Rome become bankrupt. People must once again learn to work instead of living on public assistance”
Cicero 55bc
Answer. Obviously not much.

-- if the hand is not working it is not a pure hand


15 replies so far

View GuyK's profile

GuyK

356 posts in 2681 days


#1 posted 1951 days ago

Kiwi thanks, that sure covers todays world. It is that old expression, “History repeats itself”

-- Guy Kroll www.thelandsathillsidefarms.org

View Peter Oxley's profile

Peter Oxley

1426 posts in 2476 days


#2 posted 1951 days ago

In 1787 when the United States drafted its constitution for a democratic government of the people, for the people and by the people, Professor Alexander Tyler (University of Edinborough –circa 1787) wrote about the stages of birth and death of democracy. According Alexander Tyler it takes an average of two hundred years for a democracy to mature, reach its crescendo and then revert back to bondage.

There are eight stages of democracy he observed:
  • From bondage to spiritual faith
  • From spiritual faith to great courage;
  • From courage to liberty;
  • From liberty to abundance;
  • From abundance to complacency;
  • From complacency to apathy;
  • From apathy to dependence;
  • From dependence back into bondage

http://www.boloji.com/opinion/0089.htm

-- http://www.peteroxley.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

View LeeinEdmonton's profile

LeeinEdmonton

252 posts in 2183 days


#3 posted 1951 days ago

How many times do the powers that be in Government have to fall off the back of the turnip truck before they learn anything ? Still counting.

-- Lee

View JimBuchanan's profile

JimBuchanan

27 posts in 1951 days


#4 posted 1951 days ago

The Cicero quote is really:

“The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and assistance to foreign hands should be curtailed, lest Rome fall.”

Alexander Tytler (correct spelling) is credited with the stages of democracy, but it was really Henning W. Prentis, Jr., President of Armstrong Cork Co. that said it during a speech in the early 1900’s (date may be wrong, I can’t recall).

Regardless, it is still relevant.

-- Jim

View kiwi1969's profile

kiwi1969

609 posts in 2043 days


#5 posted 1951 days ago

you learn something new every day. Thanks for the history lesson guys.

-- if the hand is not working it is not a pure hand

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

5412 posts in 2030 days


#6 posted 1951 days ago

I never got to meet Cicero in person. But, having watched a few of his speeches on UTube, I think he probably would have said what the Radio New Zealand listener said he said.

We did have some Armstrong Cork on a kitchen floor, though.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View JimBuchanan's profile

JimBuchanan

27 posts in 1951 days


#7 posted 1950 days ago

I don’t mean to be an @$$. I really started looking into one of those quotes a while back because I saw some relevance to our current economy and some things going on here in the US. So, I did a lot of research and read some articles.

Your point is still valid, IMHO.

-- Jim

View dennis mitchell's profile

dennis mitchell

3994 posts in 2916 days


#8 posted 1950 days ago

Ya but today it would have to read “Corporations must once again learn to work instead of living on public assistance”

View JimBuchanan's profile

JimBuchanan

27 posts in 1951 days


#9 posted 1950 days ago

I agree. It would be nice if we didn’t have any bailouts at all. I thought that was what the free market economy was all about. If you fail, and there is demand for your product/service, someone else will come in and fill the void. Ideally, they learn from your mistakes and improve, but with bailouts, there’s no learning. There’s no penalty.

-- Jim

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2250 days


#10 posted 1950 days ago

the bailout is more to avoid the ‘release’ of a massive amount of employees into the free market with no jobs to fill currently, then anything else. it is a very sticky situation indeed.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

5412 posts in 2030 days


#11 posted 1950 days ago

“If you fail, and there is demand for your product/service, someone else will come in and fill the void. Ideally, they learn from THEIR (FIXT) mistakes and improve, but with bailouts, there’s no learning. There’s no penalty.”

Right on, Jim!

The free market is based, in large part, on perceived value. Bailouts distort that part of the equation.
Oh Jim, there is a penalty….you and I and every other taxpayer has been put in the penalty box.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

5412 posts in 2030 days


#12 posted 1950 days ago

“Ya but today it would have to read “Corporations must once again learn to work instead of living on public assistance”

Agreed Dennis! Let the government provide NO impediment to failure…..or success.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View JimBuchanan's profile

JimBuchanan

27 posts in 1951 days


#13 posted 1950 days ago

You’re right there, Gene. Only, there’s no free market penalty for the company’s behavior, IOW, why would they operate any differently in the future if they think there is a safety net?

Don’t get me started on the massive increases in money supply that we, including our representatives and elected officials, have no control over.

Money Supply since 1913 – look at the last year, it will make you sick.

-- Jim

View JimBuchanan's profile

JimBuchanan

27 posts in 1951 days


#14 posted 1950 days ago

Sorry, I just don’t think it’s the government’s job to give me a job – or to secure it. A massive release of jobs would be bad, but we’d get over it eventually.

Ask Japan how “guaranteeing” jobs worked out for them. They had a series of recessions for nearly 25 years. Only when they gave up on trying to do anything to stimulate the economy did they pull out of it. Of course, as soon as they pull out of it, we have a global recession.

The bailouts, in some cases, were to secure jobs and industry (GM, Chrysler), but the AIG bailouts were about fear. AIG holds the paper on a lot of credit default swaps, and that’s what is bringing them down – too much liability and not enough assets to back it up.

-- Jim

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

5412 posts in 2030 days


#15 posted 1950 days ago

Jim, that St, Louis Fed. Res. chart oughtta scare Hell outta everyone. Few will see it. Most will ignore it. Many won’t understand it’s implications.
Wake up folks! When this anticipated inflation hits, we’re doomed to adopting a one world currency. Bye-bye “In God We Trust”.
I’m no conspiracy nut but, this all appears orchestrated.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase