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Horribly Warping Pine

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Forum topic by uMinded posted 12-23-2014 02:34 AM 1062 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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uMinded

104 posts in 1315 days


12-23-2014 02:34 AM

Topic tags/keywords: pine warping cupping

I live in Saskatchewan and Pine does NOT like living here…

Every single piece of pine I have ever bought does this, yellow or eastern white. I had a little 3/4” x 8” x 20” piece cup over 1” over last winter, tore a shelf apart.

My humidity is always around 55%, I tried to dry some at work in a flour mill which is 25deg and 30% RH. They where laying on steel grating with plenty of airflow.

Am I destined to never build anything out of pine?!


15 replies so far

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firefighterontheside

13466 posts in 1319 days


#1 posted 12-23-2014 02:39 AM

Was it 3/4” green or did you plane green lumber down to 3/4”. I would dry it rough and plane it after it is dry and more stable.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

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richardwootton

1699 posts in 1418 days


#2 posted 12-23-2014 04:10 AM

Stick, stack, weight, and wait. If it came from the big box store, storing it in a place that is not climate controlled to allow it to acclimate will also help before it comes into your shop.

-- Richard, Hot Springs, Ar -- Galoot In Training

View wseand's profile

wseand

2754 posts in 2505 days


#3 posted 12-23-2014 04:18 AM

I only buy pine from a yard that keeps it in the elements. Not necessarily outside but not in n a conditioned/heated environment. Like HD or Lowe’s does. I dont have much luck with it now a days anyways. If it doesnt twist, it cups. I couldn’t tell you why but pine has been getting worse lately, I dont even bother with it anymore. I use poplar for something I would make out of pine.

-- Bill - "Freedom flies in your heart like an Eagle" Audie Murphy

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JADobson

681 posts in 1574 days


#4 posted 12-23-2014 04:23 AM

Hi uminded, where are you buying your wood?

-- James

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uMinded

104 posts in 1315 days


#5 posted 12-23-2014 11:49 AM

I have bought from Home Depot (Indoor storage), Rona (Outdoor covered storage), and Winsor Plywood (Indoor storage). I have only bought eastern white once as a test and it did behave the best but still not useable after drying.

I always leave lumber on my rack for at least a week during the summer, much longer in winter as my garage is kept around 10C. I usually cut to rough length but do not thickness it, sometimes I leave them as planks. Would it be better to acclimatize my wood outdoors under a tarp/in shed for a few weeks and then bring into the shop?

The simple pine shelf I made was out of wood that was kicking around for a few months. Finished it in July and put it inside, a few weeks ago it popped a center screw on the frame from cupping and all the shelves had a split down the middle.

I want to use pine so badly because of its price, I can afford to make whatever I want. Poplar is only $0.50 cheaper than Oak, Maple is $1 more than Oak, Fir is the same price as Maple for some crazy reason, while pine is about $6 less than Oak.

I want to make a nice big tool chest and only Pine is sold in 1×12 sizes. Should I joint up a whole bunch of Poplar?

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WDHLT15

1572 posts in 1939 days


#6 posted 12-23-2014 12:52 PM

2” pine like in 2×4 through 2×10 is only dried to about 19%. So, if you are using the framing or construction pine, it has to be dried a lot more to make it suitable for inside projects.

If you are using 1” pine, I would sticker it inside in an out of the way place for about 4 weeks.

-- Danny Located in Perry, GA. Forester. Wood-Mizer LT40HD35 Sawmill. Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln. hamsleyhardwood.com

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uMinded

104 posts in 1315 days


#7 posted 12-23-2014 12:59 PM



If you are using 1” pine, I would sticker it inside in an out of the way place for about 4 weeks.
- WDHLT15

Oddly I have no problems at all with 2×4’s. I have tons of desks, chairs, shelves out of them and not a lick of movement. The 1x Pine does not last 4 weeks to dry out, the warpage in that picture was from 72hours and the other 5 boards ends split like in the picture in that same time. The Shorter ones did not warp but they all split in half.

Is global warming making the trees tense? lol.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2410 posts in 1977 days


#8 posted 12-23-2014 02:17 PM

Wood moves basically for two reasons:
A large humidity change causes the wood to either shed its remaining water, (humidity is very low), or it takes on more water, (humidity is high). Either way, it happens because the water is moving a lot in and out of the wood. The cellular structure is simply reacting to the water movement.

Most of the pine you are buying is probably not a true kiln dry. So there is a lot of water still in it. About 19-20%, as Danny correctly points out. That is WAY out of bounds for most furniture builders. It is also most likely flatsawn planks, which makes it easiest for the wood to move.

First off, you might look more closely at the stack when you purchase, if you must. Try to buy wood that is cut more towards a quartersawn cut. Look for closer growth rings. Another thing to look out for is edge of tree cuts, where you might see a small edge that looks like the outside of the a tree with the bark removed. Avoid these. A third is to try and avoid the ones where you can clearly see the center of the tree going through the middle of the plank. For sure that will cup or crack in the middle when it dries somewhat.

Then I agree with Richard. Sticker, stack, weight, and wait. And remember that it will only drop to whatever humidity is in the place where you stickered it. So if you do this outside where you live, you will get nowhere. When you do finish a project, if you make it that far, when you take it in your heated house it will start shedding water and moving like crazy.

Lastly, you are sort of fighting a losing battle with pine in the first place. Today’s hybrid high growth trees are growing so fast, the cellular structure is big and porous, lots of places for water to migrate into. It has gotten worse over the years, so much so that I try to avoid plank white pine altogether in almost all lumber yards that don’t do a proper steam and kiln dry. So HD, Lowes, Menards, not so good…
Try to find a good lumberyard where they do a proper kiln dry on all their species.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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JADobson

681 posts in 1574 days


#9 posted 12-23-2014 02:31 PM

I get you about the price of pine compared to the others. I’m in Saskatoon and totally understand your problem. As far as pine Windsor is probably going to be your best bet. I’d only get their highest grade there. Interestingly, I’ve also had a lot of trouble with warping 3/4” board but I made a stickley side table a while ago and I cut some 2×4s down to 7/8” for the top and the stretchers and aprons. They haven’t warped at all in nearly a year now. Adding that extra 1/8” and using 2×4s (which you said you’ve had luck with) may be your answer.

-- James

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a1Jim

115202 posts in 3040 days


#10 posted 12-23-2014 03:40 PM

Like others have said you need to sticker your pine, laying it flat anywhere exposes one side more than the other side to air and causes the kind of problems your having.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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uMinded

104 posts in 1315 days


#11 posted 12-23-2014 03:47 PM


Adding that extra 1/8” and using 2×4s (which you said you’ve had luck with) may be your answer.
—James

I just got a motor on my 4” jointer, I may try finding some choice 2×12’s and milling my own 1×10 boards. a LOT more work but will give me lots of practice on board choice and layout!


laying it flat anywhere exposes one side more than the other side to air and causes the kind of problems your having.
- a1Jim

I dry on wire racks, more support than stickers and better airflow. At home I dry on the above garage door wire racks so their out of the way for the weeks of waiting.

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a1Jim

115202 posts in 3040 days


#12 posted 12-23-2014 04:34 PM

In the photo they are stacked on top of one another. Wire racks sound like a good Idea if you have enough surface for each piece of wood to set on them. Just having the bottom board of the stack on a wire rack really won’t do the job.
All said and done its probably like others have said it hasn’t been kiln dried or kiln dried properly .

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2410 posts in 1977 days


#13 posted 12-23-2014 09:32 PM

uMinded:
Laying your wood on wire racks, even a single plank won’t work very well without the weight to hold it in place as it arrives at its final humidity rating. The wood will still want to move around. Decades ago, when I had my very first shop which actually was in a walk-up attic, I used to lay out my green wood on the rafters of the eaves where I could not work due to the low roofline. It worked pretty well, stickered, save the top piece or two usually warped. Why? Because as the wood dries, it still wants to move. The top pieces just didn’t have neough weight on them. Stickering, weighting, and waiting is the total answer, not just putting a board on top of a firm wire mesh.
And of course, the more weight you put on it, remember to use dense weights so you cover as little of the surface as possible. Attics stay pretty dry in both winter and summer, winter due to the heat rising up and vacating the cold air, and summer due to the sun beating down on your roof.

Anyway, it would be interesting to find out what the water levels of the 2X4’s you use with success are, compared to the pine planks. You are right, it might be better to just use wide construction lumber. Now, if you had a way to resaw it into planks….

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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uMinded

104 posts in 1315 days


#14 posted 12-24-2014 02:55 AM

I will try drying in the future with some cinder blocks on top of a sticker layer. For the time being I am going to see what quality of plank I can get out of construction lumber. I need nine 1×10 @ 42”.

Thanks for the help!

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rantingrich

372 posts in 808 days


#15 posted 12-24-2014 03:02 AM

Well at least you got some fine firewood

-- Rich

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