FYI: Visa Card Warning

Hmmmm…..The issuing institution for my Visa debit card suggests that I have each transaction processed as a credit card instead of debit. Of course, that automatically means I have to sign the receipt.

-- Gene

If a merchant is charging me $25 for a $20 bill, then most likely it isn’t an error, but deliberate. Nothing surprises me anymore. Rarely if ever does anyone check my ID when I purchase something in person, and this worries me very much. I even have it written on the back of my card, to check I.D.

-- Respect your shop tools and they will respect you - Ric

“Hmmmm…..The issuing institution for my Visa debit card suggests that I have each transaction processed as a credit card instead of debit. Of course, that automatically means I have to sign the receipt.”

That’s actually good advice from the standpoint of your best interests. If you sign, you get the full fraud benefits of the credit card, like 60 day charge backs, as well as a guarantee of no debit card fees.

Me? I have a debit card that ONLY gets used when I need cash. Everything else goes on a rewards card that’s paid in full each month. I enter the credit card transactions like checks in Quicken, and are deducted from my budget as I make them. My paycheck is direct deposited. Once a month, I pay last month’s bill using electronic bill-pay. I haven’t paid a cent of credit card interest in over 12 years.

I also relegate automatic payments, like utility and insurance bills to the rewards credit card. NOBODY debits my checking account. Why?
1.) In the case of an error, I can get it fixed before I have to pay the bill. 2.) Charge back rights… 3.) Rewards (cash, not fool’s gold airline miles) 4.) A fraudulent employee can’t clean out my checking account. 5.) A paper check gives the recipient at least 75% of the information needed to steal your identity.

OSM… It doesn’t matter if you sign the back of the card, write See ID, or leave it blank. If you didn’t make the purchase, you aren’t responsible, period. The merchant has to prove it was you, and as someone who has had to do this from the merchant end, I can say with certainity that you have nothing to worry about.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Thanks for the post. Keep us up to date with what you learn.

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

I’m pretty sure federal law says that you aren’t responsible for fraudulent charges, regardless of which financial system processes them.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

Doesn’t sound like a very ethical change by visa, but I guess that big business for you. I was just notified by my bank that I should get a new Visa card because of some security issue. A couple days later my fiance also got notified that she should change hers. Don’t know if that’s related to this situation.

-- Don't tell her I'm in the shop!

“I’m pretty sure federal law says that you aren’t responsible for fraudulent charges, regardless of which financial system processes them.”

True! The big difference is the interim, while the charge is investigated. Do you really want checks bouncing, late payment and overdraft fees, or worse yet… auto overdraft transfer cleaning out your savings, too?

Eventually, you’ll get it all back. But sending out all those letters stating it was a bank error, negotiating to get the bank to pay the other party’s fees, and to clear your own name, is not worth it when it’s so easy to prevent. Let’s hope none of the checks were to local small businesses where you have a face-to-face relationship. When something like this happens, most businesses will treat you like a deadbeat, even though it was not your doing. The bank will not take the same care you will to clear your own name, so it all lands in your lap.

My favorite consumer advocate calls debit cards with credit card logos “Piece of trash fake Visa cards” for a reason.

I’m no cheerleader for credit cards. I think lots of folks have problems using them responsibly. In some cases they are the correct tool for the job, in the age of electronic thievery. I have the t-shirt and the snow globe from that trip!

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The problem that I see with this isn’t how I use the card, it’s how the person who steals my card/card number uses the card. The way the notice reads, if they use it in a manner outside of that network, then I don’t have any protection.

I’d consider carrying cash instead if it wasn’t for the fact that I get the third degree from clerks on that now. Apparently, in order to use cash at Lowes you need to give your zip code now. WTF?

-- He said wood...http://hickbyassociation.blogspot.com/

Barry – I see your point, but I think we’re talking about two different things here …

Take the example above – I make a legitimate charge for $20, but the company charges me $25. I’m not responsible for that, no matter who processes the charge. Yes, Visa’s process gets the money back to me more quickly, but that $5 probably isn’t going to cause all the mayhem you mention.

On the other hand, if my card is stolen, even if I have been choosing to only use Visa’s processing system for my charges, that doesn’t mean the theif will be thoughtful enough to do the same. Same with your ATM-only card (if it’s Visa branded). Just because you only use it at an ATM, that doesn’t mean that if it is stolen the the theif will make the same decision.

So while Visa’s change is unfortunate, deciding where I make purchases based on what processing system the vendor uses does little to protect me.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

CASH!! I have cut up all my cards a long time ago and I onlly have an ATM card, you know the kind without the VISA or M/C logo. If I want to order something, internet, mail order, I send a money order. That eliminates all the headaches and keeps the money in MY pockets.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

“Take the example above – I make a legitimate charge for $20, but the company charges me $25. I’m not responsible for that, no matter who processes the charge. Yes, Visa’s process gets the money back to me more quickly, but that $5 probably isn’t going to cause all the mayhem you mention.”

Agree totally! I’ll provide examples below that happened to me personally, for far more than $5.

“On the other hand, if my card is stolen, even if I have been choosing to only use Visa’s processing system for my charges, that doesn’t mean the theif will be thoughtful enough to do the same. Same with your ATM-only card (if it’s Visa branded). Just because you only use it at an ATM, that doesn’t mean that if it is stolen the the theif will make the same decision.”

Agreed again! <g>

“So while Visa’s change is unfortunate, deciding where I make purchases based on what processing system the vendor uses does little to protect me.”

I never said to choose where to purchase. Using the Visa branded debit card in either mode can be a real PITA in the case of either fraud or error. I don’t even carry it, unless I’m specifically going to get cash, and most of my liquid assets are not tied to that card.

I only offer examples of the dangers… I don’t mean to argue with anyone, and fully respect differing opinions.

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Barry – Yeah, what you said!

I’m not arguing with you – my comments are partially a response to you and others, and partially additional input on the subject.

Here’s why I thought you might be advocating a “where to purchase” concept: I said you were protected against fradulent charges regardless of where they were made, and you responded directly to my comment (by quoting it) with the comment, “Do you really want checks bouncing, late payment and overdraft fees, or worse yet… auto overdraft transfer cleaning out your savings, too?” which I took to imply that you believed these things became more or less likely depending on where you charged. Re-reading your post, I see that you were leading up to another point (that “real” Visa cards are the source of protection), rather than advocating that people purchase only at vendors that use Visa’s network.

Statistically, even among people who pay off their credit card balance every month, we tend to spend more with credit cards than we would if we were paying cash – basically wasting money because we’re paying with plastic. And unfortunately, only about 1% of people can handle credit cards as responsibly as you do (paying off every month). The average cardholder carries a $3000 balance from month-to-month (I think that is average per card… how many people have eight or 10 cards!?), paying outrageous amounts of money in interest over time, and often getting themselves into trouble when they have a month when money is tight. So while the “real” credit card does offer you some protection that a “piece of trash fake” doesn’t, the “real” card is like playing with fire for most people – sooner or later (usually sooner) it gets them in trouble.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

Update:

I got some clarity on this and it is what it is. If you (or someone who is unauthorized) makes a transaction on a non-Visa network, then you have no fraud protection. I’ll say it again: Crap. Total crap.

~D.B.

-- He said wood...http://hickbyassociation.blogspot.com/

Well now, Danny. It sounds like even credit card transactions are included. You are right….It’s total crap!!

-- Gene

Not to hi-jack this thread, but…
I have just been dinged for TWO overdue fees on my Capital One card…which has a zero balance. I moved to Canada, and Capital One refuses to switch my address. So, my mother forwards my statements to me. I wish to keep my 9.9% rate, but to get my current address I have to apply for a new account… and a 21% interest rate. After raising the roof with a phone rep, he waived the fees, which were imposed on me for not paying a “Annual Membership Fee” which I never had before. The statements would arrive, and I’d not even bother to open them. So a past due payment of $58 along with this bogus $19 Annual Fee was due. THEN…the rep confided to me: By the end of March, ALL Capital One cardholders worldwide would be advised by mail that their new percentage rate would be 29% interest rate or higher!! What’s in YOUR wallet????

-- If Stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.