Laguna 10'' jointer/planer arrived with a 1 inch gash in the planer bed - what should I do?

I think it sucks. Was it a shipping problem. I assume that there was insurance on the shipping.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I am not one to complain a lot about things, but you purchased a high priced quality tool from a high end manufacturer. I assumed you did not buy an advertised blemished tool at a discounted price. You should expect your tools be perfect from the seller and that it be delivered undamaged. Get back with whoever may be responsible for the damage (shipper or manufacturer).

Dalec

“laguna is offering little compensation” .... that is pretty bad, I always had a positive perception of Laguna… this type of customer care and service is disturbing.

I’d try to talk myself up to a higher rank at Laguna about this…. this is sub par service, on a brand new machine!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

they should replace the bad part. Push it with them. You have options

-- making sawdust....

Nancy:
I bought the same planer jointer a year ago and when I got it would not run at all. I found the Laguna service department to be of little help until I emailed Torben Helshoj the president of Laguna Tools his email address is torbenh@lagunatools.com

Then I found out that if I told them what was wrong and bugged them for weeks they would send me the part and I could fix it.

Well it works now but I never buy a Laguna tool again. To bad because I like their 16 inch bandsaw.

-- Bob Clark, Tool Collector and Sawdust Maker

Thanks for all the feedback! The gash didn’t come from shipping. It is in a well protected area of the planer bed. It had to be installed that way. There is no way I could replace the bed myself – the whole machine would have to come apart and even the tech said I couldn’t get it true and flat. I’ll go ahead and write to the president of Laguna. It really bothers me that I asked the salesman about problems like this – how they’d be handled before I made the purchase. I was told they take care of this stuff – without problem. Mostly they have been avoiding dealing with it – I think hoping I would just settle with the defect.

Keep on them, they should fix the problem, Has anyone looked at it or have you showed them pics. When you e-mail the pres. be sure to include pics.
Good Luck

Nancy:
I should have said that Torbin never returned my email! He did however have someone at the service department call me. One more reason I will not buy a Laguna Tool in the future.

-- Bob Clark, Tool Collector and Sawdust Maker

It’s unfortunate that a company such as Laguna provides such poor customer service. Especially since they want people to believe that the product they are selling is the cream of the crop. Good customer service costs no more to do than bad customer service but the potential gains for the company are much greater when they do good customer service.

Unfortunately I’ve read of many problems with Laguna’s customer service. Rarely if ever have I seen good comments regarding their service. This speaks volumes to me and even if their tools were the best on the market, I wouldn’t be inclined to buy them because of that.

I hope you get satisfaction with the problem, Nancy.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

As DaveR, I have also read lots of back feedbacks about that comapny, customer service issues.
Put the machine back in the palets and send it back. Ask for a full refund of your money.

-- Francisco Luna, San Francisco Bay Area.

Laguna has slick marketing and it seems that their tools are nice.

However, among the professionals that I know they would never buy another Laguna tool because the service support is so poor. For us the longer that a tool is down, the more money we lose.

On the other hand, my cheaper Grizzly tools came with great support.

I would press the issue. I charge my clients more, but I am attentive to their every need and I expect the same from my suppliers.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

The guy I’ve been working with at Laguan told me they won’t replace the machine and can’t send me the part (new bed) to replace it. They tell me to sand the high points and keep wax on it to prevent rust.
I guess I can ask for a discounted price. What do you guys think of that?

I could also send it back – I’d lose some money getting the movers to come again and get it up out of my basement for $150. I’m guessing Laguna might pay for the return shipping (over 200), but not sure…..

If you’d bought a used tool, I’d say sand down the bad spot and suck it up. You bought new. I think their response is unacceptable and I would send it back.

I spent about 20 years selling cameras and managing camera stores. I can’t imagine selling a new Leica or Hasselblad with a scratch on the lens and telling the customer to just live with it. My job is different now. If I told one of my clients they’ll have to live with damage on a piece of medical life support equipment, a patient might die. A little extreme compared to a Planer/Jointer but customer service is customer service.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

In the uk you can demand a full cash refund inc delivery .When this happens under UK law you are not entitled to any replacement parts just your money back.However as I see it here it is the same you bought a new machine not a damaged machine they must surely replace it with a new one in perfect condition.Whats all this send you the parts and you can fix it your self thats bad service.After all it’s not your job to repair their inferior goods they should send a new one or someone out to replavce the broken parts without you having to lift a finger end of story sorry to hear of your misfortune.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

Hi guys,
Thanks again for all the help! I sent an email off to the guy I’ve been working with at Laguana – infoming him that the offer of replacement knives was not adequate – - that I expected the machine to be in prefect condition and am considering returing it for a full refund. I’ll need to have it re-crated and taken back out of my basement shop. What a pain!

I bet they will rather sort the problem for you even if the replace it rather than loose your custom.At the moment especially its dog eat dog and he or she who holds the purse strings is all powerfull .Aslo plenty others will be waiting to supply you with such a machine and the know that. After all it’s hardly chicken feed !We’re talking about a big investment for you and you rightly expect a brand new perfect machine to last for years that’s how it should be wait and see.if they have any sense they should be falling over themselves to sort the problem ratrher than loose you custom after all a poorly trated customer might potentially buy more things in the future or not and they have friends to tell of there poor treatment like you do here.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

Email him again…This time tell him you’re a member of a world wide woodworking organization of some 8000+ members…whom you can easily contact with the simple click of the mouse!

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

this is unacceptable. I’d also contact the salesperson you were in contact with that promised you “they’d take care of it”, and I’d more than likely go through the trouble and return the defective machine back to where it came from… this is poor poor customer service that in today’s ecomony cannot and should not be tolerated when you have so many other options and suppliers that are eager to get your business and DO provide excellent customer service (Grizzley, Poertmatic, Rikon, and many others)

Thank you for the post – I had the Laguna Ultimate Table Saw on my future shopping list (as an opponent), but that option has just been marked off…. I simply will NOT purchase any product from a provider of bad customer service.

you should also add to your emails with Laguna, that if they keep this up, they’ll be losing more than just 1 customer, as your words have wings that reach many of their potential customers.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Hi guys,
Javier form Laguna just called – he is aware of this blog. He has offered to send me a new bed for the planer – though yesterday wrote that it would be difficult for me to install it and get it true and flat. He also said he could offer me 100-150 dollars worth of knives, but would not give me a for the discount the machine.
If I want to send it back, I’d need to talk to my sales person. Again, Javier is aware of this blog – I told him I’d be seeking your help.

We will all be watching this and Laguna risks lots of bad press with people that might have supported them. Not good business. Sounds like they are struggling. They are gambling with their future. I now will not readily buy a Laguna product. Never heard of them before , but now I’m on the look out. Thanks.

-- mtnwild (Jack), It's not what you see, it's how you see it.

Is he going to send you clear instructions for replacing the bed? And reimburse you for the labor?

Oh, your new Lamborghini came with a broken door? Well, we’ll send you a new one and you can put it on yourself. And we’ll include a free air freshener.

Sorry, Javier, this isn’t good enough to get me to change my mind.

-- Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk.

If that’s the best they will do, don’t expect me to purchase any of their tools.
They should apologize for any inconvenience and have the machine picked up and replaced at no charge and chalk it up to customer service. Anything less is poor. I’m going to mention this when I meet with my local business owners meeting this week.

I e-mailed Laguna regarding this and this is the reply they sent back,

”Thank you for the heads up. The facts are she has a very small scratch that has no depth to it. She was offered replacement knives but took offense because it’s not cosmetically pleasing. I personally would like spare blades for that one day a hidden nail takes out some cutters. Thank you for taking time to let us know. It’s very hard to please everyone all the time.”

Very sad…..

Please forward to Javier at Laguna.

I am equipping a new wood working shop and after reading about your customer service I would not even consider buying your products (Which I was). If you want to know what customer service is all about, go to my blog “Talk about customer sevice”, Maybe Fein tools and Tools-plus could teach you something. I wonder if Fein tools and Tools-Plus got any business from doing it right. They sure are going to get most of mine! Good luck Nancy.

God Bless
tom

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

i have one question nancy do you not have 28 days comsumer rights in the US were you have the right with in 28 days to return a product at their cost for any reason when it is defaulted

andy

-- cut it saw it scrap it

If you bought it with a credit card then you can initiate a charge back. When I was looking at purchasing a new table saw last year the Laguna was on my shortlist until I heard about the poor service from numerous people, bought the Jet instead.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

If they are aware of this blog and the 8000+ members of the site they should take notice and do what they can to right a wrong. I believe I saw two other “customer service issues” with other companies posted here over the last little while and the companies ponied up and fixed the issues. These companies were monitoring LJs as well. If they are monitoring the blog they will see that they have potentially lost future sales.

Remember you can do a tool review, including pictures, to help other future LJs in their tool purchase situations.

Good luck.

-- The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them

Well, I’m shocked. I have never said I was upset because the gash was not “cosmetically pleasing.” I have never said that. This is most untrue. Here are the facts – I discovered the gash, sent pictures and was told I would be contacted by the manufacturer. Three weeks later, no contact. Yesterday, after I emailed again, I was offered the knives as needed. I’m not sure how it is that I am being so difficult to please. All my emails have been “any word yet on my machine?” I’m not sure how they can comment on the gash – having not seen the machine. I just don’t understand any of this.

you could always give us the e-mail address so we can contact them directly like zuki said 8000+ ppl can aways upset the apple cart

andy

-- cut it saw it scrap it

Send it back – They aren’t standing by their machine there are others who will -
Whether they think you are being picky or not is really somewhat irrelevant – As you state – this isn’t shipping damage it was assembled with some part that should have been scrapped or reworked before being assembled.
If you are not satisfied now – with them watching the blog – just wait until there is some issue once it is 6 months old – and they will say you must have abused it.
It’s like buying a new car with a dented passenger door and they tell you to just park it with the drivers door facing your house – to expect that you can just keep replacing blades as needed is garbage. You buy a quality tool specifically so you can rely on its performance – if you want to have to constantly babysit it – go to harbor freight and save a bunch of money.

I would return it and get the Jet 12 inch – and let laguna decide what to do with it – Take a photo and call your Credit card company and block the charge- this issue will get escalated very fast when they aren’t holding your money anymore..

-- dive in and follow your grain

Wow, I can’t believe they are unwilling to make you a satisfied customer. As has already been said, it’s a competitive world out there, and if they don’t want your business somebody else sure will. Any chance you could add the pictures here? I’d be interested in seeing this, and as pommy said, I wouldn’t mind emailing on your behalf as well.

-- Let's make some firewood!

Sorry the don’t sound ” reputable” maybe we should all email them on your behalf . But I would just ask for a full refund they are playing silly childish games not a sensible mature approach at all they need to wake upto the fact that there is a world recession and as I said before the buyer is always correct especially when they just parted with hard earned money for an inferior product thats not whet you ordered is it you ordered a new perfectly made machine and have a right to get one or your money back.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

Hopefully you paid with a credit card. As Damian said, you can initiate a bill back. There are instructions in your CC agreement that tells you how to do it. Make sure you have written documentation for everything. Most if not all Credit Card companies take this stuff seriously and if there is a pattern of poor customer service they will terminate their service with the vendor.

Other than that, if thousands of us LJ’s start emailing them we’ll jam up their computers so bad that they will beg for mercy.

-- Joe

I am a Customer Service Manager at a distirbution center and the thing I instill in my employees is “The Customer is Always Right.” It looks like Laguna has forgotten this fact and that one disgruntled customer can cause a lot of problems with respect to future customers.

During these tough economic times, you would think any company would do everything possible to spread good words about thier products and service. This one thread is doing the exact opposite. I.m convinced that I will never consider buying a product from Laguna.

Nancy, Don’t give up the fight. You paid for a NEW machine not a slightly damaged machine. Make Laguna correct the machine at their expense and hassle.

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

New woodworking machines sold by Laguna Tools carry a one-year warranty effective from the date of shipping. Laguna Tools guarantees all new machine sold to be free of manufacturers’ defective workmanship, parts and materials

Copied from their written warranty. Emphasis mine.

-- Joe

Any photos of the damage? There is a lot of advice (I’m sure a lot is good) but you might get even better advice if you can show a picture.

Yea . . . what Hokie said. Post some pics here so that we can see the damage as well.

-- The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them

I spoke with Don at Laguna. He was very responsive to my concerns. We are still working out a final resolution, but I feel more confident that he will address the problem. Thanks for all your help! It is like having brothers! :)
I’ll let you know how it works out. I’d attach pictures – but have no idea how to upload them to this section.
Nancy

Nancy, in the window below, there are four brown buttoms…the last one, “insert images”, will help you to post pictures from your computer.

-- Francisco Luna, San Francisco Bay Area.

Please enter the URL of the image comes up. I have a mac and all photos are on iphoto..
The browser won’t open.

Nancy, do you have a .mac account? if so, PM me, I can guide you through how to post images using that account.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Well, I have to say I’m gobsmacked!!

I’m a believer in getting the best quality machine for the available budget, and sometimes my desire for quality overrides my budget. I have been considering purchasing some Laguna equipment, even if I have to ship it to South Africa, but now…? No Chance

What follows here is my opinion, and should not be taken as statement of fact:

This terrible response from Laguna is not bad service at all, it is breach of contract.

Nancy, you effectively have an agreed contract with Laguna whether you have signed any documents or not. You paid for a machine that they contractually guarantee to supply free of defect. The fact that you have the machine in your possession effectively means that they have bound themselves to the contract. You asked for a contract by offering money, they accepted the money and delivered the machine, thereby accepting your request and affectively binding themselves to a sale contract.

That defect could be as slight as a casting defect on the underside of the table, and they are bound by law to correct the defect. Now most of us wouldn’t raise hell for a slight defect under the table, but we are entitled to, and they are legally obliged to honor their contract.

Mr Torben Helshoj and Javier – Please note that it is not up to you to decide if the defect is worth repairing. Your guarantee may give you the right to decide HOW to deal with it, but it is the customers decision whether it should be corrected or not.

-- I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.

I’ve read this post with great interest. I now know where I am not buying my bandsaw from. Thanks Nancy for posting this dilemma. I hope Laguna does right by you and fulfills their contract.

-- ...it's rennovation time!!!

Nancy, sorry to hear about your issues with poor customer support by Laguna. You should not stop until they have completely replaced the equipment AND compensated you for all the time spent dealing with this issue. If any of my employees treated a customer in this manner they would find a pink slip on their desk by the end of the day! Laguna is officially on my “Banned” list.

IF they have not responded to your requests by the end of the week with timing for delivery of the new equipment, I would let them know that you are contacting the Better Business Bureau at www.bbb.org You also have every right to contest the payment due to breach of contract.

Nancy,
Shame on them, sounds like a Chevy Pickup I bought that they gave me a hassle about fixing. I’ve bought Toyota ever since and you can see the shape GM is in now.
I will add this to my watchlist to see how they resolve the issue, seems like with the input from this blog they would fly someone out to install a new machine for you and throw in some extras for your trouble.

-- Paul, La Center, Washington

Thanks for the update Karson. Laguna can kiss my $35 000 goodbye. Good luck Nancy.

Laguna,

A redneck once told me that you could build bridges your whole life and they would never call you a bridge builder. You f#$% one goat and you know what you are going to be for the rest of your life?

-- "Safe woodworking isn't just about avoiding injury, it is also about avoiding extinction." CKG

I hate to hear that your machine came defected. I would agree to get it on a truck back to the manufacturer. I do not know for sure but the price for these high end tools are not in the quality but are an high shipping cost from europe. so this machine would be a walmart brand tool in scandinavia? I figured this out when a friend of mine bought a multi machine that would fit into a 10’X10’ room that came without the three motors to run it. He had to goto california to get them. So it looks like they have not changed much from the early 90’s when that happened. Well how can they know the American way when they are piliaging Vikings?? Send it back.

-- Humble Wood Servant

I am so glad you posted this. My bandsaw broke right after the new year… I think the motor died. It was an 8 year old ridgid. I’ve been doing a ton of research on bandsaws and I narrowed it down to Laguna or Rikon. I guess I’m going with the Rikon. Too bad… the Laguna looked like it had much better features. The Rikon looks like a great value. But I hate dealing with poor customer service.

pretty pretty please….... can we see pictures of this damage?

cmaeda – Rikon has top notch customer service from my (and other’s) experience!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Just to be the Devils advocate here:

I agree that customer service is a very import part of an expensive purchase. I would expect to receive a high level of support from a vendor who is charging a premium price for what is supposed to be a premium product. Unfortunately for Laguna I fear that they are not getting treated fairly in this particular thread.

This thread has been up for a couple days now and there are still no photos of the damage. I don’t know what a “gash” in steel looks like or how severe it is. I notice that Nancy has contributed nothing to lumber jocks other than this complaint. She has no history here so I’m not willing to take her word for it with out pictures. Nancy could be a fine upstanding person with experience, knowledge, and great skill, who’s judgment is impeccable and who’s word is beyond reproach but how am I to know that?

-- Wipe the blood stains from your blade before coming in.

I’d like to see pics too; nevertheless if the defect is such that had you seen it in person you wouldn’t have bought it then they should replace/fix it.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

Please post some pictures. Otherwise, no logical judgement can be made.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

spaids – I agree with you in regards that it seems everyone stood up against Laguna in this thread, and I felt the same way you did, that maybe it’s not exactly fair. I too think and want to see the damage to get an understanding of what exactly we’re talking about, and make sure we’re not going overboard here basing out opinions and words on false facts.

Nice catch on Nancy’s stats – I usually check those things, but in this case didn’t. it does make an interesting point.

that said – I think the flame was mostly fueled by others’ past experiences with Laguna’s CS that just fit into this experience and seemed to be following their ‘usual’ way of business.

I believe we all want to see the damaged goods, but also we all want to know that if we have a problem with a product – the high end provider can back it up.

Customer Service Story:
Just so happen that yesterday I bought 4 chickens at the local ‘high end’ grocery store (organic and all) (yes – chickens). apparently I got the wrong type of chicken – completely my mistake, not the stores’ , not the suppliers’. Went back to the store this morning, CS told me it will have to be trashed since they can’t take back and resell chicken. She then took the 4 chickens , trashed them, and credited me back the amount I paid for them.

Totally not woodworking related – and yeah- maybe those weren’t $2000 chickens (but they were close enough) – but thats not the point, the point is the service. they want to keep me as a happy customer, and thats what they did.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Hello Nancy,
You also have the right of states’ business or through your Attornery General- Consumer affair division.
I would recommend that Laguna pay for all costs to have that machine returned to them, and give you a full refund. I’m going to send off a letter to Laguna Customer Service Dept, and explain to them that this one error on their part could (and will) cost that company untold amount of business and give them a black eye for any future customers.
I paid good money, and bought a Powermatic. I’m trilled with it, but at almost a grand, who wouldn’t be?
Their tools are the best…bar none.
Best of luck, and I also recommend any and all of us here at LJ’s send off notes to the customer service dept.
at Laugna also.

-- Paul, Bristol,Rhode Island

just an FYI, everyone that is putting this company on their “banned list” is impacting a company before the final resolution has even been reached. I’m with spaids on this one in that I don’t think anyone is necessarily lying or anything like that. I just think that it is a gross overreaction to claim that you will “NEVER” buy another laguna product based on one thread on the anonymous internet.

There is a simpler way to consider in case LAGUNA refuse a full refund:

Minor Claims Court

Here in California, takes 15 minutes to file online, only $35.
When this people receive the date and time to appear in court, for sure will refund with no questions.
I have filed twice…......piece of cake!

-- Francisco Luna, San Francisco Bay Area.

There are two sides to every story. Some others have reported that they are not satisfied with Laguna’s Customer Service. Others swear by Laguna. Same with Grizzly, Delta, Dewalt, and on and on.

Nancy, please post a picture, or email me one and I’ll post it for you. Then we can all make an educated response. And please do not think we are calling you a liar, we just need some more information before we can really suggest what we would do.

-- Chip -- Manchester, Connecticut "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

HarleySoftailDeuce there is no need for every LJ to send a note to Laguna service dept. no need to lose connection with reality and go all against Laguna. Laguna by now is already aware of this blog, and have their own ways/procedure they act upon. This is between Laguna and Nancy.

All we can do here, is (as the OP requested) supply suggestions as to what she can do to handle the situation. it is up to her to take control of it, and deal with her provider.

it is not up to LJ’s to make this more than what it is. Lets be civilized about it.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Hi All,
Again, I appreciate all the feedback. I am new to Lumber Jocks and wrote in seeking advice. I hope I have not said anything disparaging of Laguna. I just stated my experience and asked for peoples opinions. Please look back to my initial posting…. I tried to explain the gash and the issues of sanding it down and my fear of rust. If I did not convey this well, I apologize. It was not my intention to cause harm.

As I posted the on Tuesday eveing, I spoke with Don at Laguna and he was very helpful. He is determined to resolve this problem.
Nancy

Thanks for the reply Nancy. I’m not tyring to put words into your mouth, but as I see it, you are still working toawards resolution. You posted saying you were having trouble. If you say you would never buy from them again, why should they try to help you with this purchase (I know you didn’t say this, but others are saying they won’t buy in the future). On the other hand, if they fix the problem in a satisfactory way, I assume you would continue to consider them with your future business, as long as you were ultimately happy. I just think its early for everyone to judge your situation and determine their future purchases since the company is still working to resolve the problem.

Also, I hope you keep coming back here. I think you can see there are a lot of people passionate about helping out here and it sounds like your level of knowledge could benefit many others on this site (I wouldn’t even know where to begin to flatten a jointer bed).

At this point I’d still go for the chargeback on the credit card, I’ve done it more than once when I received damaged goods and got bad CS satisfaction. Laguna will act completely different to you when they know that they don’t have your money and they have to logistically retrieve their product. Charge backs can be done any time within thirty (30) days of receiving the item. I have had this problem with other types of companies but never tool companies, kudos to WMH group, Grizzly, DeWalt and Freud all of whomm I’ve had great CS realtions with. I will not ever buy Laguna after hearing this.

-- -JimmyC...Clayton,NC- "Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"

I really think we sucked the life out of this thread… we should all put it down to rest until Nancy has any updates…. I think the OP was answered long ago.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Nancy,

I’m with the gang! A brand new, top name tool is expected to be delivered to you in brand new, perfect condition. You have every right to expect a replacement part in a reasonable time frame, at no additional cost to you.

If the part is difficult to replace, the manufacturer should either send a mechanic to the site to accomplish the repair, or replace the entire machine. There is no way, no how, I’d cobble a fix (like sanding a torn part) on a Laguna machine. I might with a Chinese cheapie, or a used machine, but not a premium branded new item.

The premium price you paid for a premium brand by all means entitles you to expect premium service.

I wish you well!

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

everyone has bad days. I actaually had a lie nielsen that i needed to replace parts on once.
the e-mail response from them took days and the part took even longer. but i was ultimately satisfied.

I’m hoping what happened here is that your initial talk to customer service was with someone who was off their game because they just stubbed their toe and got a papercut or something. anyone can have a bad day.it’s not right, but 8000+ lumberjocks should not black list a company without allowing a little more time for them to make it right.
Lumberjocks as a group represents quite a substantial bit of buying power for this type of equipment. I feel it would be unfair for us to blacklist them as a company without at least a few more days for them to resolve the issue.
all that said, the defect shouldn’t matter , they should fix or replace it. and if they are really reading this blog, they should be bending over backwards to make it right and have this thread end with a glowing review by nancy.

-- Junior -Quality is never an accident-it is the reward for the effort involved.

Hi Nancy,

Welcome to Lumberjocks. Regarding your last statement I have to tell you that unfortunately the fuse has already been lit on this issue and a group of Lumberjocks have raided Javier’s home. Poor guy. Burned to the ground. So sad. Good luck getting your issues resolved with Laguna. Its gonna be tough now that they have received the rath of the Lumberjocks and are filing chapter 11.

-- Wipe the blood stains from your blade before coming in.

JuniorJoiner,

I can’t believe that about Lie Nielsen! That is an OUTRAGE! I will NEVER buy a plane from them now! I guess Groz will be getting all my money now. CHaa haa haaa. Man I’m so funny. I crack me up.

OUTRAGE!

-- Wipe the blood stains from your blade before coming in.

Nancy, sorry to hear about your problem. I am coming to this post pretty late but… my two cents are:

It seemed pretty apparent that Laguna was being unreasonable from the get go. Now…after a huge headache and tons of emailing, you may have gotten someone who will handle the problem correctly.

I wouldn’t accept ANY part of a reimbursement until you are settled on what it will be. Personally – I’d want a brand new machine. I don’t want extra knives, or $50 off…I want a brand new, working, machine. Bottom line – one that isn’t beat to heck when I get it. For the price I’m sure you paid – you are entitled to that too.

I probably would have insisted on sending the machine back after their poor customer service. They aren’t the only tool manufacturer out there. Grizzly is where I’d look…I’ve had great luck with them, and I’ve heard nothing but the best for their customer service.

Good luck!

Zac

-- "Start with ten.....end with ten"

Dear Lumberjocks members:

I would like to assure you that as a business owner I have been extremely concerned about the negative comments posted by the members of the Lumberjock forum. It has caused our business and employees an immense amount of stress and concern. As a policy within our business we believe that it is not a good philosophy to banter on the forums as we have had previous experience with competitors posting false comments about our products, employees and customer service. However, we are making an exception due to the severe negative comments posted on this thread.

It is not acceptable for Ms. McCorry to wait three weeks for a response from a member of our customer service team, this is inexcusable and please be assured that we have addressed this issue. We have offered compensation and we are committed to resolve the issue with Ms. McCorry.

My business partner and I operate an honest, reputable business with integrity. This year we celebrated our 25 year anniversary and I believe we would not be in business if indeed we were in the habit of providing poor customer service. We offer customers the ability to e-mail an issue to customer service or call a dedicated toll free number, at which stage our computer system will issue a ticket in the customers account and this ticket cannot be closed until we have tried to call the customer a minimum of three times at each number.
Our goal is 100% customer satisfaction. Within the next three months we will move to an internet based system where customers can create a customer service ticket in their own account and each ticket will be monitored by management. Additionally we will be sending out randomly chosen customers to evaluate each member of our customer service department. Employees will have performance evaluations from the ‘customers perspective’ on a regular basis.

Laguna Tools is not perfect and we operate with a philosophy that “customers have a choice on where to put their business”. We apologize to Ms. McCorry for the scratch on her table and as previously stated we are committed to resolve this matter.

I have posted the image of the table top for the members to review at the top of this email.

Sincerely,

Torben Helshoj
Woodworker and President of Laguna Tools.

Mr. Helshoj,
I don’t think the president of a large company should be forced to get involved with every customer service complaint, but I hope that your response will ease the nerves of many members on this site. Only a fool would base their purchasing descisions based on one passing comment and hopefully most people will educate themselves thoroughly by reading multiple reviews and talking to as many past customers as possible before making a large purchase.

I hope that an accurate assessment of the long term reputation of your company wins out and that you have the opportunity to serve many others with the high quality products you strive to produce. I also hope that a mutually acceptible resolution can be reached by both parties. Take care.

Interesting.

-- ...it's rennovation time!!!

I think this is a good sign, but still I wonder why it took 3 weeks to get a response???? The only thing that Nancy wanted was the tool she paid for. She did not pay for the scratch in the table but she got it. According to her statements, she did not get the satisfaction she felt was deserved, and I think that customer satisfaction is the most important part of doing business.

I don’t see where Torben was forced to get involved with this issue he chose to. A President of a company does not have to get involved with a customer service issue, but it is nice to see when one does.

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

Hi guys,
I wanted to let you know that I just got off the phone with Don at Laguna. What may have started out as a difficult beginning with this machine has now become 100% better. I greatly appreciated the response I got from Don and Mr. Holshoj (on this forum). Laguna took responsibility for the delay in action and inadequate customer support and have made things right by compensating me for the bed.

Knowing their ultimate response, I would absolutely buy another Laguna tool.
Nancy

ya ya ya

-- "Safe woodworking isn't just about avoiding injury, it is also about avoiding extinction." CKG

“everyone has bad days. I actaually had a lie nielsen that i needed to replace parts on once.
the e-mail response from them took days and the part took even longer. but i was ultimately satisfied.”

Maybe LN didn’t know what to do. They don’t often ship defective items. <g>

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

This has been a fascinating discussion, In my former employ I would never accept my service dept acting like this, Heads would ,and should, roll. Glad to see it worked out in the end, and remind me never upset the LJ mafia, I might end up with a carving of a horses head in my bed!

-- if the hand is not working it is not a pure hand

All’s well that ends well.

-- Chip -- Manchester, Connecticut "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Nancy,

Glad you got your satisfaction. IMHO the problem isn’t so much that you received a damanged product (hey, it can happen to any company) but the way it was initially handled. From the sounds of it…. the practices for which the problem was handled – is NOT how Laguna expects the problems to be handled, and that it was a couple of employees who were giving you bad service.

Let’s just say for the sake of things….it was in fact, one or two employees who caused such grief in correcting this problem. That is SOOOO unfortunate for the Laguna company. Perfect example… look how fast the name started to turn once this story was told about the customer service. Literally – you had people changing their mind about future purchases on the spot.

But… in the end…. the problem WAS handled right – AND, it sounds like Laguna is going to be looking into who “dropped the ball”.... I’m glad for this…. poor customer service hurts a company nearly as bad as poor products. Laguna seems to have awesome products…. I hope the customer service reflects this.

Zac

-- "Start with ten.....end with ten"

Rock on Laguna!!!!!!!! WooHoo!!!!!!!!

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

I glad to see a successful response to a customer problem. The dalay seems to be the concern. An acceptable answer or choice of answers were not provided in a timely manner.

I glad that the problem has been solved. Now back to making sawdust, or in your case chips.

Three weeks after she received the product, no acceptable response. 2 days after it was brought to our attention. The problem is solved. We have become a powerful force to insure that our members are not dumped upon.

The power of the pen, and the wide spread voice of the internet can cause people to tremble.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Is that a really bad picture? Can someone point out the scratch? I’m sorry, but I don’t see it.

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

“I discovered the gash, sent pictures and was told I would be contacted by the manufacturer. Three weeks later, no contact. Yesterday, after I emailed again, I was offered the knives as needed. I’m not sure how it is that I am being so difficult to please. All my emails have been “any word yet on my machine?” I’m not sure how they can comment on the gash – having not seen the machine. I just don’t understand any of this.”

Why did you wait 3 weeks for a call back? That doesn’t make sense to me. I would think you would have called them back after day 2. Personally I would call them until someone satisfied my state of mind, even if it was just to rant. I would not e-mail them my problem. I can imagine it going to their spam box.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

Interesting thread. I’m pleased your problem is being resolved. I am, however, concerned at the level of dissatisfaction that was generated over this post. Especially when the only picture we were provided came from the manufacturer. As strong as the pen is, and as strong as our numbers are, we have to really sit back and be as objective as possible…otherwise we’re no better than every other manufacturer bashing forum. I’ve said, and probably hundreds of times at LJ, “this thread is useless without a picture.” I’m not sure the one we have helps all that much. Anyway…back to the shop.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

i have had nothing but love for laguna they now use Baldor motors i have the TSS cabinet saw the 18/47 lathe and the LT16 bandsaw. they are all great tools customer service is great in fact i have found they have a tendency to be more annoying than anything they will call or email every 2 mo and if anything has gone wrong they have sent out a new part laguna gets 5 stars from me this post has gotten out of hand.

-- cut it twice and its still too short

The scratch is clearly visible if you view the picture alone, in another window. In the thread, the browser enlarges it and blurs the scratch.

Good for Laguna for stepping up and clearing this up, demonstrating how they earned their place as a premium brand in the marketplace.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Thansk Barry, I went to the link

http://www.lagunasupport.com/images/pic001.jpg

and I have to say its tought to gauge the size. My guess though is that I’d have taken some free blades.

Good deal, Customer Service as it should be, it restores my faith in the tool manufacturing industry and Laguna.

-- -JimmyC...Clayton,NC- "Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"

I believe this is called making a mountain out of a molehill. A small scratch like this can easily be softened with a bit of emery cloth and will not effect anything. It is a shame so many rushed to judgment on this without first seeing the photos.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

John,
Laguna is a well known European-type machinery company at the same level of other manuf. like Minimax and Felder. In that range of high standards, quality and innovation, nobody expects a product with blemishes or imperfections + this person is paying MONEY for the product…......

I was in the market last year for a bandsaw and noticed at many forums, lots of complains about Laguna customer service….mmmmm…something happens, do not you think?

-- Francisco Luna, San Francisco Bay Area.

John,

When I read the problem w/o a pic… I first read it as a “1” DEEP gouge” not…. scratch as it actually is.

Regardless – I stand by first impression. I was really concerned that the customer was told to just “sand it out, It’ll be fine”.... no one should have to scratch out a scratch from their brand new purchase.

Zac

-- "Start with ten.....end with ten"

I can’t see the gouge

-- jay Rambling on and on again

I have Felders and Minimax machines and they have very small imperfections. Do they work great? Yes. I never expect a machine to be “perfect”. I am also always tuning my machines to keep them at the level of accuracy I want. I just don’t have a problem taking a piece of emery cloth and ease the edges of a small flaw in order to get to the machine in a working order. I do not expect any company to be perfect. I can understand a person being a bit miffed at getting a new tool with a flaw. However, I just don’t go ballistic on a minor issue. I think Laguna probably was thinking along those lines also. They offered some free blades to help remedy the flaw and I think it was fair. It is way too expensive and time consuming to re-crate, return and ship another machine for something this trivial. The planer bed is a pain to adjust and should be avoided. This is why I think it has been blown way out of proportion. Just my 2 cts. some might agree with me and I am sure others won’t.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

Since when is any defect in a planer bed surface acceptable? Other places, maybe, but not on the bed surface. I can see forgiving cosmetic defects on an HF class planer bed, but not on a Laguna class tool. That scratch, or gouge, or whatever you want to call it, is clearly visible in the regular sized pic, and should have been seen and pulled before it left the factory. Some defects can be overlooked, some cannot, or should not.

-- I may not know a lot, but at least I know that I don't know.?.?. I think. http://chathampenworks.com/

I must admit I laughed out loud when I saw that the President of Laguna had to get involved in this forum topic. (It was an incredulous laugh, mind you…) Wow, the response of people here really bothered the people at that company, and it would bother me too if a large group of potential customers decided to basically boycott my company’s product and spread the word to their friends to do the same.

I’d get the shivers and stomach butterflies, wondering about my job security and whether this was the beginning of the end. As Karson said, the ‘power of the pen’ is mighty indeed!! Being a CNC and manual machinist, I would almost be inclined to fix the problem myself if a tool came to me in this condition, but as the Sef said above, ”Since when is any defect in a planer bed surface acceptable?”, especially when brand new.

My initial impression before seeing the picture was that I’d still buy from Laguna…sort of. I thought I’d try to find a used tool so that I wouldn’t have to worry about fighting with the CS department, as the machine would be out of warranty. And with my experience with making/repairing machine parts, I wouldn’t have a problem fixing a defective machine myself, but ONLY if the machine was no longer the responsibility of the manufacturer.

Now that I see how the situation turned out, I WOULD once again consider buying from Laguna, as I had for a long time before reading this post and momentarily wavering. I always thought their machinery would be a worthy investment, and I’m willing to give them a chance.

Rebuttals are always welcome ;-D
...but I agree that we’ve just about killed this subject. Now GET BACK IN THE SHOP!!

-- Lane Custom Guitars and Basses

I still believe the offered resolution to this situation to be somewhat lacking on the part of Laguna. I’ve done a bit of contract field service work for a local WMH (JET,etc) dealer, and I guarantee you, this is NOT the way they handle disputes. They once had me drive over 250 miles to replace a start capacitor on a JET lathe where the customer, being very knowledgeable, and cpmpetent, had already diagnosed the problem, and had everything off of the machine that needed to be off, ready for the replacement part.

Another time, I drove about 100 miles just to verify a customer complaint about a drill press in a small foundry that got harder to move the quill as it traveled further. The customer determined that the parts were incorrectly machined. He was right, and all I did was to verify his diagnosis .. JET sent him a new drill press, and had someone arrive the next morning to install it, and crate/ship the old one back. Now, this was not your typical hobby/home drill press .. it was one of the largest in their lineup, but they chose to eat it, and send a perfect replacement. I was so impressed with JET’s handling of the situation, the next time I was in that city, I stopped by to check with the manager to see if he was satisfied. He was most impressed at the “follow-up” that he wrote a letter to the folks I do the work for, expressing his gratitude .. .. the next week, the guys I work for sent me a check for an hour’s wages, and mileage to/from the business. I returned it and told them I was just in the area, so I stopped by. They finally took the check back and we all had a good laugh about it.

My bigger concern, however is that if I bought this machine from Laguna or anyone else for that matter, and I discovered damage of this nature, I would like to know what caused it. Nancy, obviously doesn’t have the ability to tear into this thing to examine all of the guts to make this determination, nor should she. Perhaps, during assembly, somebody dropped the cutterhead, and it fell onto the bed, causing this damage. The gouge is the least of her worries .. what if the blades are cracked or the cutterhead is damaged ?? There is a LOT more at stake here than a scratch. If I were her, there’s NO WAY I would accept this resolution. I would put the credit card charge in dispute, and demand that they pick up the machine. Whether she accepts another from them or moves on to a different brand is another matter completely .. the damaged unit should go back .. and Laguna should step up and do the right thing by accepting full responsibility for taking it back .. .. after all, that is their written guarantee .. .. if they’re not going to honor it, they shouldn’t state it. I would unplug this machiine, and wait for them to pick it up .. I can only omagine their creativity in excuse making were she to be injured by this thing .. I can just hear them now .. “She KNEW the machine was defective, and she used it anyway .. .. that makes HER responsible .. .. WE never told her to use it that way” .. .. yeah right. Go get the machine and eat your mistakes Laguna .. .. Nancy did NOTHING to contribute to YOUR problem .. fess up, honor your guarantee .. and do the right thing.

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