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Forum topic by Russell Eck posted 12-06-2014 02:29 PM 995 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Russell Eck

122 posts in 884 days


12-06-2014 02:29 PM

Topic tags/keywords: veneer resaw

I am in the process of designing an extremely large “modern” style bed for a Cal. King mattress. I have access to tons of zebra wood and wanted to make the bed out of that, but then a co-worker presented a useful thought, why not construct out of plywood for stability and use thick veneer, thus saving lots of money and zebra wood.

My question is what is the best was to go about cutting veneer for this. I am going to be using 4/4 zebra wood lumber and my thoughts are making the veneer 1/4 inch thick. I’m thinking just resawing on the bandsaw and gluing the veneer down with titebond 3. Is it feasible to get three 1/4 inch thick peices out of a piece of 4/4 zebra wood after planing, jointing, and the width of the bandsaw blade?


16 replies so far

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2526 days


#1 posted 12-06-2014 03:15 PM

What you are talking about is lamination, if it’s that thick not Veneer.

Ok first if you laminate that over ply and its that thick you will have a problem. You will be putting a moving opject (solid wood), over an object (ply) that does not. Recipe for disaster.

I made a bed same size (cali-king). I used a lamination of cherry over poplar, not to save money(but it did), but to provide strength across the beam and keep that big a piece of wood from warping and thats a long long span! Mine ended up 1.5” thick and I had a top rail, that was a 1/4” thick glued to the top and bottom. I finished the top with a round over bit and left a 1/8” reveal at the point the top & bottom cap jointed the wood, and you could not tell it was not a solid piece of wood with an edge profile. I make beds to sell with this method. Almost forgot, I like Charles I-beam bed slats. I do not need a middle support to the floor and I’m a big guy and my bed has zero sag now and she’s going on 2.5 years old now. I use 5 slats for the cali king. Good luck and post your pictures so we can all see!

I used Charles Neil’s method and it’s held up fantastic. I highly reccomend his vid google his site and you will find it.

I also used PPR glue to give extra open time to get the laminations together but sets solid as a rock so no creep on the glue. However use proper PPE! the powder is very fine, and dangerous till mixed into a liquid. However fumes were not bad so once it’s mixed it’s good, but read the directions!

I don’t know your setup for vacuum press, but I build Joe’s kit and it worked (still does) and was a fraction of the cost of commercial unit. I also strongly recommend I also recommend springing for the poly bags over the vinyl they are a bet more, but soo much better to work with! Good luck and post pictures.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22447246@N06/7618867832/in/set-72157632472603837

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Ultra-CAT-PPR-Veneer-Glue.html

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View Russell Eck's profile

Russell Eck

122 posts in 884 days


#2 posted 12-06-2014 03:25 PM

So if I laminate I need to go thinner such as 1/8 inch thick? The widest board that I would laminated would only be 8 inches wide, I’m not doing big surfaces. The bed design is essentially an 8”x8” box that borders the bed. I’ll try and get a picture of my sketchup design up

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Russell Eck

122 posts in 884 days


#3 posted 12-06-2014 03:53 PM

The headboard is going to be a simple frame that I am going to get upholstered with leather so you can ignore that. It is basically a floating bordered box that I want to laminate as well as detachable build in nightstands. I will build a seperate platform for the mattress that will raise it off the floor in the center of the bed border

View TheWoodenOyster's profile

TheWoodenOyster

1275 posts in 1394 days


#4 posted 12-06-2014 04:22 PM

I’ve never done any veneering, so take this for what it’s worth. I have heard that veneers should always be less than 1/16”. Once you go thicker than that, the wood starts acting like solid wood and movement starts to cause problems. Heard that from Jere Osgood I think.

-- The Wood Is Your Oyster

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7161 posts in 2257 days


#5 posted 12-06-2014 07:51 PM

Just a quick question. Have you tried re sawing the zebra wood yet? It is very hard on blades.
I think veneering is a great way to go but buy the veneer. It is likely cheaper than the blades you use up.
Just a thought.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Russell Eck's profile

Russell Eck

122 posts in 884 days


#6 posted 12-06-2014 09:41 PM

I work at a wood shop so I have access to a very nice bandsaw and buying zebra wood at cost is cheaper than buying veneer to be honest, I also want to have thickness on my side for future repairs or possible damage down the road

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2526 days


#7 posted 12-07-2014 01:22 AM

Even if you have solid 1.5” zebrawood, I’d reccomend a lamination. I’d go with a solid wood like poplar interior and resaw your zebrawood and that would make nice bookmatch rails. I did that for my bed. I got 5/4” poplar and ripped it. You will find when you resaw the sides will cup a bit. If not bad, I put the inside faces out and clamp and leave for a couple days till they even out. Go longer than you need so you can trim it back. If you don’t have a vacuum press, you can use cauls and clamp all the pieces together. Good luck.

I found a cutoff piece of one of my bed rails, and don’t know if you can see it, but the grain’s. Hope it helps.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22447246@N06/15961188181/

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View Russell Eck's profile

Russell Eck

122 posts in 884 days


#8 posted 12-07-2014 01:48 AM

Yeah, I have thought about doing that at one point, the whole point I’m going for is plywood simply for stability in movement and structure. It is sounding like plywood with a 1/8 inch veneer isn’t something that is feasible right?

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2526 days


#9 posted 12-07-2014 02:24 AM

1/8” is thicker than you think. I’m not familiar enough with zebra wood enough to know how it moves. Is it flat sawn, or QS? I just double checked my bubinga veneer and it is around 20 thou. It might work, but then it might not. Something else you could do is laminate with 1/4 think, on the outside, and then run it through the planer to take it down to a 1/16th.

If it were me, I’d just use a solid wood and then allow for just a little movement and not sweat it. If you go with a mortice/tenon still joining method to your bead posts, just leave 3/16 head space and you won’t have an issue and it will not twist or bow on you. Again, I’m not that familiar with zebra wood in a laminate or veneer thickness, so I can speak from experience on the wood type, just on others I’ve used for a bed.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View Russell Eck's profile

Russell Eck

122 posts in 884 days


#10 posted 12-07-2014 03:49 AM

I can definitely resaw to 16th inch thick veneer. I’ll resaw to 8th inch then plane to 16th. I’m pretty sure it is quartersawn. I was originally going to do solid lumber when my boss suggested plywood structure and laminate/veneer which would save me a ton of money considering zebra wood is about 23$ a board foot. Only need 2 or 3 boards of zebra wood versus 10+

View jmartel's profile

jmartel

6564 posts in 1609 days


#11 posted 12-07-2014 04:46 AM

1/16th would be better than 1/8th. That’s what I’d do.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

View Russell Eck's profile

Russell Eck

122 posts in 884 days


#12 posted 12-07-2014 04:57 AM

I dont have a vacuum press, what would be the best glue and way to do it. I am assuming cauls and clamps since it isn’t a huge area. Should I use cold press glue or the super hard stuff PPR glue

View EPJartisan's profile

EPJartisan

1116 posts in 2584 days


#13 posted 12-12-2014 08:41 PM

I have had some experience with Zebra wood… veneering and laminating.. carving, joints.. etc.
I laminated pieces up to 1/4” thick onto Italian Poplar plywood. I used a two part epoxy because the wood was so open pored that other glues seeped through in my vacuum press and I wanted to match the amber color of other glue joints and it is very close to my varnish finish. I want to try a PPR glue next… I have not had much problem with wood movement from my laminations… of course I overlapped the edges with a 45 degree chamfer for more glue connection between the thin stock and in case it did move, there would be no visible gaps. I think the nice thing is the wood is very open and fibrous (a lot like walnut) and so I think under a good bond the wood would hold up really well even at 1/8”.

-- " 'Truth' is like a beautiful flower, unique to each plant and to the season it blossoms ... 'Fact' is the root and leaf, allowing the plant grow and bloom again."

View Joel_B's profile

Joel_B

294 posts in 840 days


#14 posted 12-12-2014 08:54 PM



What you are talking about is lamination, if it s that thick not Veneer. Ok first if you laminate that over ply and its that thick you will have a problem. You will be putting a moving opject (solid wood), over an object (ply) that does not. Recipe for disaster. I made a bed same size (cali-king). I used a lamination of cherry over poplar, not to save money(but it did), but to provide strength across the beam and keep that big a piece of wood from warping and thats a long long span! Mine ended up 1.5” thick and I had a top rail, that was a 1/4” thick glued to the top and bottom. I finished the top with a round over bit and left a 1/8” reveal at the point the top & bottom cap jointed the wood, and you could not tell it was not a solid piece of wood with an edge profile. I make beds to sell with this method. Almost forgot, I like Charles I-beam bed slats. I do not need a middle support to the floor and I m a big guy and my bed has zero sag now and she s going on 2.5 years old now. I use 5 slats for the cali king. Good luck and post your pictures so we can all see! I used Charles Neil s method and it s held up fantastic. I highly reccomend his vid google his site and you will find it. I also used PPR glue to give extra open time to get the laminations together but sets solid as a rock so no creep on the glue. However use proper PPE! the powder is very fine, and dangerous till mixed into a liquid. However fumes were not bad so once it s mixed it s good, but read the directions!

I don t know your setup for vacuum press, but I build Joe s kit and it worked (still does) and was a fraction of the cost of commercial unit. I also strongly recommend I also recommend springing for the poly bags over the vinyl they are a bet more, but soo much better to work with! Good luck and post pictures.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22447246@N06/7618867832/in/set-72157632472603837

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Ultra-CAT-PPR-Veneer-Glue.html

- bonesbr549

I am in the process of building a bed out of cherry. I was going to use solid cherry for the side rails starting with rough 7/4 and plane it down to 6/4. Do you think this will be a problem with it warping? I will try to start with some lumber that is straight and then mill it on the jointer / planer. I am not sure why poplar would add any more strength or stability. I like the idea of the I-Beam slats and not having any center supports to the floor. What kind of finish did you use on Cherry?

-- Joel, Encinitas, CA

View RogueOranum's profile

RogueOranum

8 posts in 720 days


#15 posted 12-12-2014 09:39 PM

All my veneering is less than 1/16, it works well, this prevents it from going too solid.

-- Rogue Oranum The Author Of : http://www.Woodworking-for-Beginners.com

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