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Forum topic by giser3546 posted 12-04-2014 04:31 PM 1263 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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giser3546

179 posts in 933 days


12-04-2014 04:31 PM

I have one 14 TPI Veritas hand saw and I’ve used it just about every time I cut dovetails or M&T. I have noticed I have a hard time getting the saw to stay on a mark especially when just starting out. At first a attributed that to my inexperience but Lately I’ve been wondering if a higher TPI would make that easier. Is there a significant difference between a 14 or 16 tpi and maybe a 20 tpi fine cut dovetail saw?... or should I just keep practicing with what I have?

-- "If you wait for it to rain, It will"


19 replies so far

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2281 posts in 1830 days


#1 posted 12-04-2014 06:31 PM

What’s your technique for starting the saw? I have the Veritas 14 tpi dovetail saw and haven’t noticed a problem with it. I use my thumb as a guide, and do a pull-stoke or two at an angle on the corner, then once it’s started extend the kerf across the piece. I did notice that when I first bought the saw, it was more difficult to start than after I’d put some hours on it. I think the teeth were really sharp and grabbing more. I also use a crosscut-filed saw when cutting tenon shoulders.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

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giser3546

179 posts in 933 days


#2 posted 12-04-2014 07:25 PM

I usually use my chisel to cut out a groove on the waste side of the line and use that along with my thumb to guide the blade. I use the same saw and procedure on the shoulders.

-- "If you wait for it to rain, It will"

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waho6o9

7171 posts in 2038 days


#3 posted 12-04-2014 07:26 PM

“I have one 14 TPI Veritas hand saw and I’ve used it just about every time I cut dovetails or M&T. I have noticed I have a hard time getting the saw to stay on a mark especially when just starting out.”

What kind of a mark?
If it’s a pencil line the saw may wander.

Some folks use a marking knife and then chisel along the line to keep the saw in line.

Paul Sellers has a video on saw set:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvbakS8ZjKY

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JohnChung

372 posts in 1535 days


#4 posted 12-05-2014 03:55 AM

There are a few ways to start the saw. I generally pull at the edge of the wood. The angle is not steep as I do not want to have breakouts.

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ElChe

630 posts in 797 days


#5 posted 12-05-2014 04:21 AM

I find that if I GENTLY hold the saw and almost float the saw as i let the saw start the cut I find it is much easier to cut to a line. I’m still in the practice stage in terms of dovetails. I’m taking a dovetail class next year and in the meantime I practice my pin cuts and my tail cuts. Im getting better cutting to the correct side of the mark. My saw is a 15 tpi.

-- Tom - Measure twice cut once. Then measure again. Curse. Fudge.

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rjpat

36 posts in 1439 days


#6 posted 12-05-2014 03:39 PM

The Renaissance Woodworker has a video on how to sharpen that saw to make it easier to start.

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DrDirt

4167 posts in 3203 days


#7 posted 12-05-2014 03:57 PM

I would keep practicing.

I have used the Japanese saws, and I like it, but it does take a lot of strokes to make the cut with such fine teeth.

It could be that the set on a few of the teeth are off on your saw, such that it is pulling to one side.

Does it always pull one way, or is it random?

-- 'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' ~George Carlin

View mds2's profile

mds2

308 posts in 1405 days


#8 posted 12-05-2014 04:00 PM

I have the same saw and thought the same thing when I started using it. It was a “grabby” and hard to get started. But I think it was just my technique. Let the saw do the cutting and dont force it.

View bobro's profile

bobro

308 posts in 771 days


#9 posted 12-05-2014 05:15 PM

I use my left thumb as a kind of fence or register, like Ed and giser. And point my right finger, not have it in the handle. Sometimes I put out my right middle finger, forward and down as a sort of guide on the right side of the blade as well, at the very beginning of the cut- that way you are forced to go gently.

On crumbly woods, or very hard slick woods that make the saw want to skid around, it makes all the difference to chisel a little start as the guys are describing, even if it’s just at the corner and not all the way across.

-- Lao Ma: You are so full of anger and hatred. Xena: Everybody's gotta be full of something.

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summerfi

3315 posts in 1148 days


#10 posted 12-05-2014 05:27 PM

When you say, “I have a hard time getting the saw to stay on a mark,” do you mean it jumps around when you’re starting the cut, or it gradually wanders off the line once you get into the cut?

-- Bob, Missoula, MT -- Rocky Mountain Saw Works http://www.rmsaws.com/p/about-us.html

View mramseyISU's profile

mramseyISU

419 posts in 1006 days


#11 posted 12-05-2014 09:59 PM



I have the same saw and thought the same thing when I started using it. It was a “grabby” and hard to get started. But I think it was just my technique. Let the saw do the cutting and dont force it.

- mds2


I have the same saw and that’s the best advise there is for this. I find that when I push to hard the saw goes all over the place. Easy does it and it’ll sing.

-- Trust me I'm an engineer.

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

296 posts in 3429 days


#12 posted 12-08-2014 11:48 AM

Lift the saw up like this and you will find it much easier to start ..

If you start the cut on the near edge so that one can follow the two adjoining marked lines, and then level the saw. This also effectively reduced the rake of the teeth and makes for an easy start.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

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TheWoodenOyster

1275 posts in 1396 days


#13 posted 12-08-2014 02:40 PM

I have that 14 TPI Veritas and I’m not a fan. I got a high tooth, maybe 20 or 25 TPI Japanese Dozuki and I much prefer it. Much thinner kerf and easier to start. They aren’t too expensive, you should give them a shot.

-- The Wood Is Your Oyster

View giser3546's profile

giser3546

179 posts in 933 days


#14 posted 12-08-2014 09:35 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have noticed that it gets easier when I loosen my grip.. but starting out is still difficult to get spot on. I will give it some thought.

-- "If you wait for it to rain, It will"

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2281 posts in 1830 days


#15 posted 12-08-2014 09:37 PM

One thing I learned early with this saw is, in addition to the very light grip, if it doesn’t start easily, pick it up and do a pull stroke again. Trying to force it to start cause it to jump off the line, seemingly always into the non-waste area.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

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