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Forum topic by wbrisett posted 11-29-2014 11:57 AM 1177 views 1 time favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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wbrisett

201 posts in 1810 days


11-29-2014 11:57 AM

I had a Forrest WWII thin kerf blade in my Delta cabinet saw for a few years, it needs to be resharpened, so I took to opportunity to buy a replacement and have a spare. I thought about buying another WWII, but then thought I would try ‘something different’.

I currently have four blades.

Guhdo Gmaxx thin kerf blade
Infinity thin kerf Combination blade (010-050)
Infinity thin kerf Super General Blade (010-045)
Forrest WWII Thin kerf blade

I just got the Super General blade prior to some work with some rough black walnut. As I was ripping the wood, it smoked and left horrible burn marks. I chalked that up to the wood, but put in the combination blade and finished up the job without any smoking or burn marks. However, it’s simply not as smooth as the dull WWII was, so I tend to use it for only rough lumber.

Fast forward a few weeks and I’m going to rip some oak, so I again put in the Super General and get horrible burn marks and smoke. I pulled out my calibration equipment and check the squareness of the table and blade. It all seems within tolerance, so I try again and again same results.

I put in the combination blade, results were fine. Put in rather dull WWII blade and the results were fine. Put in the Guhdo blade and results were awesome (cut like butter, left razor sharp edges, and zero burn marks).

OK, so now color me puzzled. Why in the world, unless I got a bad blade would three blades work great and one burn and just not cut the wood very well?

FYI… I did fire off an email yesterday to the folks at Infinity to see what their thoughts were on this, but for a blade that has ‘won’ several blade tests by various magazines, I’m certainly not impressed with this one…


17 replies so far

View buildingmonkey's profile

buildingmonkey

242 posts in 1009 days


#1 posted 11-29-2014 01:27 PM

I bought some new blades to fit my new Hammer tablesaw, ordered from Carbideprocessors.com, they are Tenryu brand, cost about 2/3 of what Forrest cost, and they cut fantastic.

-- Jim from Kansas

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7209 posts in 2837 days


#2 posted 11-29-2014 02:02 PM

The Super General has a dual side grind and very tight side clearances, which put a lot of carbide to the edge of the wood. It’s also fussier about setup than most. Different blade parameters yield different results. In a well controlled environment, its the cleanest cutting of the 40T general purpose blades I’ve used to date, and is capable of leaving a highly polished edge, but the same characteristics that give it the ability to polish an edge can also make it more prone to burning if any component of the cutting operation aren’t dead on…. If the lumber is too thick, too moist, not flat, not straight, feed rate too slow, alignment off, saw bogs, etc., can all contribute to burning. Raising the blade can help, but sometimes it’s just a matter of a blade not having the right parameters for a given situation. It’s also possible you got a blade that’s not quite right. The Infinity Combomax (010-050) is much more tolerant of setup than the Super General.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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timbertailor

1591 posts in 885 days


#3 posted 11-29-2014 05:30 PM

I am really happy with the Freud Premier Fusion combo blade performance and long life, especially considering the very reasonable price. Forrest, Infinity, Eagle America, are all very good blades and I would not hesitate to use them again if it were not for the price difference.

-- Brad, Texas, https://www.youtube.com/user/tonkatoytruck/feed

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

5173 posts in 2656 days


#4 posted 11-29-2014 05:57 PM

I have 3 WW II blades, and find them far superior to any of the others I have….I’ve never had to send them back for sharpening (yet), but in my opinion, they out perform any of the other ones I have, like Freud, Delta (old blades), and a few others….I clean them quite often, and they just keep on keeping on…Kind of like that pink rabbit beating the drum…....

-- At my age, an "all--nighter" is not having to get up and pee...!!!

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4853 posts in 2274 days


#5 posted 11-29-2014 06:05 PM

You were ripping rough lumber? If that’s the case, I’m surprised all the blades didn’t leave burn marks. I would joint the boards and try again before I assumed the blade was at fault. If the edges are not straight enough to joint, try establishing a straight edge at the bandsaw first.
If the boards are not milled to at least S3S they shouldn’t be cut on the tablesaw.
My apologies if I misunderstood your post.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View wbrisett's profile

wbrisett

201 posts in 1810 days


#6 posted 11-29-2014 08:59 PM

pintodeluxe: The lumber is rough (I get it direct from a sawyer). I have a sled I built that I hold the rough lumber on to get a straight edge. From there I take it to the jointer to get a perfect edge. Then I’ll face plane one side and run through the planner. I’ve been doing this long enough to have it down to a science. ;)

I’ve never had issues doing this with any blade except the Super General. Even with lumber in the S3S state, I get the burning, so I don’t think that’s it. Anyhow, I hope that helps explain what I’m doing a bit more. I do agree with you by the way that unless you have a sled like I made, it’s not wise to cut rough wood on a table saw.

View Mike79's profile

Mike79

1 post in 1829 days


#7 posted 12-06-2014 08:36 PM

I have a full kerf Super General and ran into the same issues as you did – really excessive burning and higher than average force required to push the wood through the blade vs. other blades. As knobscott noted, the blade is exceptionally finicky with your TS setup. I went back through my full TS setup and noticed my riving knife was ~.001-.002” out of spec vs. that blade. (I didn’t have issues with other blades with my previous setup.) When I went back through my full TS setup, the burning was greatly reduced, but the feed pressure was still greater than comparable blades (Forrest WWII, Freud Fusion, etc.). WRT cut quality, it didn’t seem greatly improved vs. Freud Fusion or Forrest WWII. I’ll admit that due to the feed pressure I also don’t like the “feel” of my TS cut with the Super General.

I don’t have the time to continue to tweak my TS setup or cut technique (feed speed, etc.) to make the blade perform perfectly so I’m purchased another blade (Ridge TS2000). I’ve used the Ridge on a buddy’s saw & it performed great. Hopefully it will work as well on mine.

In the end, this is just my opinion of the Super General. A lot of people seem to like the blade. I, however, can deal not having the most pristine cut in the world to have a much more forgiving blade that “feels” better.

View SCOTSMAN's profile

SCOTSMAN

5839 posts in 3046 days


#8 posted 12-06-2014 09:52 PM

Why not try it out on other species of wood to see how it cuts more generally I would.And if it is below par for all woods tried then demand your hard earned poppy back pronto.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View wbrisett's profile

wbrisett

201 posts in 1810 days


#9 posted 12-06-2014 10:21 PM

I’ve had conversations with the folks at Infinity… I promised them I would go through things again and then see how it looked.

I went through my saw today and with a Masterplate installed checked and went over everything with a fine tooth comb. On my Delta X5, the best alignment I could get was .001… (it was .005 off). I don’t know about you, but I think .001 should be well within tolerance (we are talking wood here). Double-checked the squareness of my Incra fence, made some minor adjustment so everything was perfectly square. Cut a 1×1 piece of pine and checked with calipers. it was 127/128… That’s good enough for me. However, I still noticed a wee bit of burning on pine! Put in a piece of Oak and it was smoke city. :(

Either I have a bad blade, or it’s pine only for this blade. As I mentioned, I’ve got three other blades, none of them leave marks like this. I think it’s simply a matter of this blade not being the blade for me. I’m either going back to the WWII, or I might just stick with the Guhdo Gmaxx for a while and see how I like it. (I hadn’t used it up to this point, bought it on special and tucked it away … and promptly forgot I had it).

Based on my conversations with Infinity, they will make it right. I’m just disappointed that this blade didn’t work out for me.

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

13713 posts in 2080 days


#10 posted 12-06-2014 10:33 PM

I love knotscott’s reply. Excellent info there.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View wbrisett's profile

wbrisett

201 posts in 1810 days


#11 posted 12-08-2014 10:01 AM

I decided to document this via photos showing first that my table and fence are square on the Delta X5 cabinet saw and thus that shouldn’t be the issue (I went back and realigned my top again on Sunday and got it to within .0001 front and back… you can’t ask for much more than that!).

First, here’s showing that my blade is aligned at 90 deg.
Front:

and Rear:

and parallel to the mitre gauge..

Front:

and Rear:

Next was my fence. Again, front first:

and rear:

and after all that, here’s what the Infinity thin kerf Super General Blade that I have did in a piece of scrape mesquite (I stopped about ¾ of the way through due to all the burning):

Switched out the blade and put in the Guhdo Gmaxx and this is the result:

So, either something is wrong with this blade, or it’s balsa and pine only for the Super General blade.

Unless somebody here see’s something I’m missing in my setup of the saw. (I did check runout as well, but didn’t post photos of it. That’s fine as one might expect on a 10 year old cabinet saw that isn’t used daily).

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3667 posts in 1182 days


#12 posted 12-08-2014 05:57 PM

That’s perplexing, I’ve never had any blade perform so differently in hardwood over softwood or vice versa. For me either a blade cuts poorly in both, ok in both or great in both. I’ve cut thick hardwood and softwood (nearly the limit of my Unisaw) and never experienced burning like what you have pictured. I run Delta combination and ripping blades and a few Freud thin kerf and combination blades.

View wbrisett's profile

wbrisett

201 posts in 1810 days


#13 posted 12-08-2014 06:32 PM

Andrew at Infinity has contacted me and they believe I might actually have a bad blade. As he stated, it’s very rare, but they have a couple from the past 10 years that were bad. They are shipping me a new blade. He did mention that my photos of my setup were very helpful and my saw is in tighter tolerance than the one they tested the blade in that they are sending me.

So, we’ll see what happens when I get the new blade. I’ll update this thread when it arrives.

Wayne

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2523 posts in 2899 days


#14 posted 12-08-2014 06:39 PM

I joint and plane my wood pieces before using them primarily for these reasons.

1. It will be a problem with fitting things down the road as I build.

2. Things bind and burn in the saw unless they are straight. If you’ve got a good fence that is aligned to perfection a bowed piece of wood through it will totally negate it. A bowed piece of wood is as bad as a bowed fence.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View wbrisett's profile

wbrisett

201 posts in 1810 days


#15 posted 12-08-2014 06:48 PM

I think people have misunderstood what Ive been doing. I get lumber from a local (semi-local) sawyer. I build a sled that lets me get one straight edge, joint that edge, then square the other edge. Then plane the boards. Sometimes I find it necessary to plane the wood before squaring the other side. Just depends. Maybe I didn’t state more clearly how I’m doing this and should have.

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