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SawStop jobsite saw mentioned in FWW's Shop Talk Live

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Forum topic by Rob posted 11-14-2014 04:02 PM 1775 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Rob

704 posts in 2538 days


11-14-2014 04:02 PM

The latest Shop Talk Live podcast includes an interview with a Ryobi defense attorney, as well as an interview with Steve Gass about the soon-to-be-released SawStop jobsite saw. If I remember correctly, the price is going to be $1299—yikes!

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/115195/stl-72-another-tablesaw-lawsuit

-- Ask an expert or be the expert - http://woodworking.stackexchange.com


12 replies so far

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David_H

90 posts in 785 days


#1 posted 11-14-2014 11:59 PM

I honestly wonder how much that system costs to produce, I have no idea, but I would think that if Steve Gass was truly concerned about saving people’s fingers he would find a way to get it into more shops. The vast majority of people are not going to pay 1,300 for a job site saw. Before anyone brings up capitalism or the his right to make a buck, I think at one point in this nations history, before we eschewed corporations any ounce of public responsibility there was a time when companies did the right thing because it was the right thing to do. I am not saying he should give his system away, but if the price point was accessible I am sure through royalties he would be making more money than he is now. /end rant, getting off my soapbox now.

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JADobson

682 posts in 1578 days


#2 posted 11-15-2014 12:36 AM

I would hazard a guess David that you are viewing the past with rose coloured glasses. Sure there may have been a few companies that tried to do good for good’s sake but there a few around today that (I think) try to do the same (e.g. LV, LN come to mind for woodworking companies) But people don’t really change, they were just as greedy back then as they are now and did anything for money. Just look at the history of railways or mining or any large industries. They were out to make a buck.

Back on topic, $1200 is a ton of cash for a job site saw. However, having it should lower insurance premiums and possibly offset that cost.

-- James

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David_H

90 posts in 785 days


#3 posted 11-15-2014 01:50 AM

I have read A People’s History of the United States I am well aware of big business’ sins but I really do believe that it is much worse now.

Sawstop does make some great saws should be interesting to see it.

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MrUnix

4244 posts in 1666 days


#4 posted 11-15-2014 02:13 AM

I seriously doubt that using a SawStop would lower insurance premiums at all.. there are a lot more real and serious dangers at a job site than getting cut on a table saw. As for the mechanism.. seems like it would be pretty simple to incorporate a basic GFCI type circuit connected to a high speed solinoid, which is basicall all that the SawStop is. My guess is that the patents are so vague that anyone who tried would wind up in court for years, and the market (and demand) is not large enough to warrant the expense involved.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Redoak49

1959 posts in 1455 days


#5 posted 11-15-2014 02:34 AM

I do not think it would be so simple as a solenoid is not going to be fast enough or strong enough to do what the SawStop can do. In addition, there is a great deal of electronics involved in the cartridge. If it were so simple, then the other saw companies would have invented their own. In addition, the mechanism needs to pull the blade below the table and also be strong enough to withstand the shock loading. Sounds so simple…...

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Rob

704 posts in 2538 days


#6 posted 11-15-2014 09:48 PM

I haven’t looked closely at my brake in a while but in the podcast Gass said there’s a heavy-duty spring that pushes the aluminum brake into the blade when the wire compressing the spring is vaporized by high current upon flesh contact detection. Once the brake touches the blade, physics does the rest, including transferring the blade’s angular momentum to a different axis, pulling the blade below the table. Presumably the complicated part is fine-tuning the software in the brake cartridge to trip upon flesh contact while minimizing false trips.

-- Ask an expert or be the expert - http://woodworking.stackexchange.com

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bonesbr549

1176 posts in 2534 days


#7 posted 11-15-2014 11:33 PM

I love these threads. People always talk to greed “it should be cheap” Hell that’s the thinking that’s got all tools made in freakin china.

“If the inventor truly wanted to help he should take less money to get it out there” So lets see you go to work, and agree only to take just enough in wages to buy your food so it can get it out there. You’d say take a hike.

The amount this guy spent in R&D and legal, and patents, and his heart and soul into making his vision come to life has to be recouped. Plus he put it on the line, if it had failed he would have too, so now he’s got that better mouse trap. Add to all that he only gets exclusive use for a period then anybody can make it. Cudo’s Go for it.

1200 for a job site saw is expensive? For a professional this is squat. Amortize the cost of that tool over it’s life and it ain’t all that much. Compare that to what one trip to the emergency room. Add to that the life altering event of losing your livelihood.

I would have loved to have paid not as much for my ICS, but I don’t begrudge the owner of sawstop one bit. He tried to get the other companies to usem, and when no one would he did it himself. Now they are all crying. Too bad.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

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MrUnix

4244 posts in 1666 days


#8 posted 11-16-2014 12:21 AM

I would have loved to have paid not as much for my ICS, but I don t begrudge the owner of sawstop one bit. He tried to get the other companies to usem, and when no one would he did it himself. Now they are all crying. Too bad.

I don’t really see anyone crying.. In 2007, an estimated 700,000 to 800,000 table saws were being sold a year in the U.S. (source: CPSC meeting on safety initiatives for table saw operation held May, 2007). In May of 2014, SawStop reported selling it’s 50,000th saw, with it’s first being sold in 2004. Based on those numbers, SawStop has averaged around 5,000 saws a year; which works out to less than 1% of the total U.S. market.

Not much demand for a ‘better mouse trap’ when the old ones did the job just fine.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Senorbutt

11 posts in 1202 days


#9 posted 11-16-2014 12:56 AM

I recently read that during a lawsuit filed against Ryobi, lawyers for Ryobi voiced concerns about using the Sawstop license because it would raise the cost of their low end cost saws by around $100.

Read about it here

I really want a Sawstop but just can’t swing the $3500 cost for the model I want.

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Redoak49

1959 posts in 1455 days


#10 posted 11-16-2014 03:53 PM

I love the article about the lawsuit as it was posted by a lawyer group looking for clients and asking people to contact them if they have a potential lawsuit.

While I am an advocate of the SawStop technology, it would really be great if the other table saw producers did research and try to come up with a way to make a table saw safer.

Of course the greatest safety is education, using the current guards and safety equipment and doing things the safest way. Unfortunately, a lot of people have been doing things which have a small risk of major injury and doing it for a long time with no problems. It only takes a one in 10,000 or so type of incident to have an accident.

Be Safe Out There

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runswithscissors

2192 posts in 1492 days


#11 posted 11-16-2014 09:52 PM

As I’ve said before, in another thread, all that’s needed is to have the blade drop instantly below the table. No need whatsoever to stop it if it’s no longer exposed. To me, the mechanism’s function is like stopping your car by driving into a tree. Or better yet, by driving a powerful harpoon or anchor into the asphalt to do the job.

Any entrepreneur has a right to harvest whatever profit he can from his innovation. But that doesn’t mean that we OWE it to him (or her). The innovation has to succeed in the market on its own merits, not to satisfy the needs and desires of the inventor. I’m talking about Gass’s suit against others claiming lost profits that they somehow owe him. Of course he’s a lawyer, so it’s to be expected.

One comment on this site reported recently that other manufacturers are developing, or have developed a rival technology. I hope they succeed.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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MrUnix

4244 posts in 1666 days


#12 posted 11-16-2014 11:41 PM

As I ve said before, in another thread, all that s needed is to have the blade drop instantly below the table. No need whatsoever to stop it if it s no longer exposed. [...] One comment on this site reported recently that other manufacturers are developing, or have developed a rival technology. I hope they succeed.

Several years ago, the PTI developed a system that does exactly that. Unfortunately, it most likely will never see the light of day. From a CPSC report regarding a proposed table safety rule:


Gass has been awarded 78 patents related to his invention. In 2009, the Power Tool Institute was awarded a patent for a safety mechanism that retracts the saw blade below the table on contact, without engaging the blade with a brake mechanism. Any of the companies that are members of PTI can use this technology. But PTI, Gass and CPSC have all acknowledged that any implementation of a device that met the conditions of the rule would result in lengthy litigation over the patent claims held by Gass.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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