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Craftsman rabbet plane fence-rod hole

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Forum topic by Brett posted 10-28-2014 03:00 AM 2187 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Brett

660 posts in 2146 days


10-28-2014 03:00 AM

I took my recent-vintage Craftsman rabbet plane (a Stanley 78 clone) to Lowes and determined that the hole for the fence-rod is threaded for a 1/4-28×2 bolt. Can anyone with a genuine Stanley 78 tell me whether the hole for their plane’s fence-rod has the same diameter and thread count? I want to buy a replacement fence assembly and i need to know whether a Stanley fence rod would fit a Craftsman rabbet plane. Thanks.

-- More tools, fewer machines.


17 replies so far

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#1 posted 10-28-2014 01:53 PM

I was curious about this compatibility thing myself. With a known, definitely correct rod, I tested my 78s to see what fits where. All of the Stanley 78s had the same 1/4-28 hole. Mine are from all different eras, too. Ditto an ‘Edge-Rite’ made in Canada. My Craftsman, still unused in its original box, also fit the rod perfectly, and vice-versa. (my Craftsman is made in England).

Now for the real weird stuff: A Record 078 did NOT fit, and neither did an unbranded 78 with a horn and a circular nicker. (See 2nd pic.) These two did accept a weirdo screw with a 25 TPI count. These screws were in a fastener bag from some kind of knock-down furniture, I bought these screws at H4H and have no idea where they come from, but absolutely they are #25 TPI. I assume they gotta be Metric, and wouldn’t bet the farm on it unless I can take a screw from a sealed package from a hardware store and spin it in tight.

I’d cautiously agree, the Craftsman will accept the Stanley hardware, but if it has the circular nicker instead of the clover…I’d hold off. There are variations!

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#2 posted 10-28-2014 03:50 PM

I forgot to add, the rod diameter measurements were .277 to .281 inch. Some just a bit sloppy but a nominal 9/32” across the board and so goes the bore of all the fences.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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bandit571

14575 posts in 2146 days


#3 posted 10-28-2014 05:27 PM

The one with the “horn” is a Sargent version. Different threads.

I have a Wards 78, but it was made by Stanley.

There is also a Millers Falls version out there.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#4 posted 10-28-2014 05:41 PM

Thanks, bandit!

I’d like to get my hands on a Millers Falls #78, and see what the threads are.

Sargents in general are few and far between here in Canada. But it’s interesting that Craftsman 78s have been provided by both Stanley and Sargent over the years, I’ve seen Craftsman 78s with the disc-type nickers. The horned plane in the pic came to me without any cutters or lever caps, I had no idea what brand it was.

I guess I’ll put together a set of metric bolt examples just for comparative sizing. I’ve got a thread gauge, but it doesn’t help with internal female threads.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#5 posted 11-01-2014 02:54 PM

Hope somebody found this info useful…..

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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oltexasboy1

240 posts in 1168 days


#6 posted 11-01-2014 03:18 PM

The record is made in England and the thread is probably Wentworth, as an old retired mechanic I have run into them before.

-- "The pursuit of perfection often yields excellence"

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poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#7 posted 11-01-2014 03:37 PM

@oltexasboy: Yes, I’m familiar with Whitworth threads used on some old British machinery.

Here’s a chart: http://www.motalia.co.uk/Html/Charts/bsw_chart.html

According to my thread gauge, the odd screws found in the Record and Sargent are definitely 25 TPI, and the 24 TPI gauge is definitely a no-go, so I’m ruling out Whitworth in this case. Metric remains the untested possibility.

I’ll see if I have any metric screws, I can hardly trust any fastener in my mixed-bolt bin to be what I think it is,

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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realcowtown_eric

565 posts in 1400 days


#8 posted 11-02-2014 02:01 AM

Stanley started making planes long before thread specifications were standardized, and continued to use their own peculiar threads forever as lfar as I know.

Some years ago there was quite a discussion on this very topic on the oldtools listserve, the archives of which go back about 20 years on this very subject. Unfortunately, if you search for stanley threads, you get the links to every message that had a thread about stanley. ARRRRGH

Beware ..Stanley threads are unique to them as far as I know.

eric

-- Real_cowtown_eric

View Don W's profile

Don W

17962 posts in 2031 days


#9 posted 11-02-2014 11:56 AM

http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24090

There is some thread info I posted including 2 pdf files with the Stanley thread sizes.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#10 posted 11-02-2014 03:42 PM

Thanks, Don!
The Record info link you posted will be a great reference for me.

Oddly, the Record #78 or #078 is not included in the thread list or parts list.

I’m still mystified, however, the post rod on my Record #078, and the other horned plane, will accept my weird 25 TPI screw. So, the screw is either a Whitworth, or a Metric. I will go to our old-school hardware store today, and buy a bunch of each metric sizes just to get a hands-on test fit for future reference.. I’ll ask about Whitworths, I’m sure there is an assortment of them under the cobwebs in their basement.
My bin at home of 1/4” X 20 screws has lots of things mixed in which I probably sorted by sight long ago. I’d guess maybe a fourth of what’s in the bin is NOT truly 1/4 X 20. I’d assumed it had to be 24 or 28 tpi stuff, but now I’m wondering…

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Don W's profile

Don W

17962 posts in 2031 days


#11 posted 11-02-2014 03:46 PM

Millers Falls uses 1/4×20. I made a new fence rod out of a bolt. The bolt diameter is a bit small but it works.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#12 posted 11-02-2014 11:17 PM

Okay, a bit further now….
I have metric bolts now. NONE really fit the fence rod holes of my Record or horned mystery plane. Well, an M5 kinda would allow itself to be threaded in, but it was too wiggly wobbly to be considered a correct, seated fit. Though indeed, the thread pitch gauge does indeed say 25 tpi for this metric bolt, there is the slightest bit of daylight showing at one end of the gauge. It’s not right.

It’s not USS. It’s not SAE. It’s not Metric. I concur with oltexasboy. Whitworth, I’m guessing. Now I’ll have to scan eBay for an assortment of Whitworth bolts. Wish me luck.

Thanks to all who participated!

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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tenpennyguy

3 posts in 649 days


#13 posted 02-26-2015 05:06 PM

Thanks for the great research & info.

I was able to progress the rehab on two (made in Can) sweetheart Stanley 78’s by (carefully!) using a 1/4” – 28 tpi tap to clean out the threads on the rod holes, and am now off to the local metal mart for some stock to make fence rods.

My one surviving fence rod on the sweetheart Stanley 78 comes out at 1/4 – 28 thread with a shaft diameter of .271 inches.

Has anyone fabricated thumscrews or fences and can share experiences / suggestions?

-- a plane a day keeps boredom away

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TerryDowning

1053 posts in 1581 days


#14 posted 02-26-2015 06:05 PM

The miller’s falls number is #85 for their duplex fillister plane.

I also have a Sargent made Craftsman, sans fence and depth adjusters. The only place I could find replacement parts was NH Plane Parts, and the replacement to complete the plane were twice the cost of getting a complete MF #85 on e-bay.

The #85 also has the improved depth adjuster that the craftsman did not have. I have retired the Craftsman to a shelf in my office at work and happily use the MF #85.

-- - Terry

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poopiekat

4225 posts in 3198 days


#15 posted 02-26-2015 10:43 PM

Oh, I remember now…

I’m still wondering why the original poster never followed up, I mean did he solve his thread problems?
Dunno, he never came back to this thread with a follow-up.

I do have the full regalia of thread gauges now, and even Whitworth fasteners of all known sizes, just in case I have a thread identification project.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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