Japanese tools: plus and minus?

I don’t have any experience with the planes and chisels but you’ld have to fight me for my Japanese dovetail saw. I think the only way to know is to try both styles.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

Hi Lalaland;
—-first question should be; ’how is’ and ’what condition is your back in’ ?
And I’m not trying to be funny or smart with my reply here, but if we of the western world are going to adopt, explore and delve into the eastern mindset of woodworking, then I believe a lot of us might want to get a ‘new back’.

Also when we talk of Japanese tools, lets not forget the Chinese and Koreans….there truly is so much to explore here in this area of ‘western’ and ‘eastern’ woodworking. In some articles I have read as I have studied herein, there seems to be the thought that the Japanese learned or re-fined their learning from the Chinese and Koreans….and then also there is evidence that dates some planes back to China and Rome. The Japanese may have taken ‘the art of hand tooled woodworking’ and then went on and refined the tools some more. Why even their way of working the steel has history all wrote in it. There is the history of when the tradition according to the samurai was banned, in the Meiji period of rule and some tool makers turned to now using their knowledge of steel to make woodworking tools….

As far as to your question of ‘use’, well that is somewhat open to interpretation….’western’ thought has made the saws and planes to work on the push stroke, while ‘eastern’ thought has made the tools to work on the pull stroke….see why you may need a ‘new’ back. Which then brings forth my question of, ‘are you willing to re-think how you do woodworking’ and ‘how much time do you have’ ?

For myself, I still use western chisels and gouges, since I still do a lot of pounding with mallets and such and these seem to stand up well to the energy I put into them….and yes, there is also the price factor and I just cannot replace and start over. I also do like the ease of being able to drive the miles when I need a chisel like right now! When it comes to the saws, I find that eastern saws are the far better way to go, thinner kerf and the ability to be able to drive the saw as it starts the cut. And I know that many talk of how that with the thinner kerf, the pull saws will not hold up as well in hardwood as to their teeth. What I have found is that, if you ‘respect’ the wood and the saw, then both will give ‘quality time’. When it comes to sharpening the saws, well I don’t sharpen since I have found the steel holds a good edge….and then I also ‘respect’ those saws and they hold up well. When the saw does wear out, for the price of a new saw, I can just go buy again rather then re-sharpen. Of course if I was buying one of these from Misugi Designs then I might be inclined to look into getting my saws sharpened.

As far as the planes go, well I’m still sitting on the fence on this one….and cannot help you out much here beyond what I have read. I do not use planes that often, and some folks just stare at me and scratch their heads when I explain that what I learned of ‘wood joinery’ comes by way of what I have learned as a timber framer. I mean by this, that when it comes to the planing of wood, I’m still back in the time frame and mindset of the 1700’s….when I go to plane in the rough or for fine woodworking, I still go and grab my broadax….ha!; only a timber framer would understand that.

As far as the tools go, the best advice I can give you is just as Bob has said up there in his comment,”try both styles” and spend some time in your workspace. Folks will often tell you much and then the much can be very good information, but in the end you have to form your own opinion….which I have found comes from learning the tool. Names of tool manufactures don’t mean much to me since I first learned dovetail cutting, with an inexpensive Stanley miter saw, and that one was second hand that I found in a deserted cabin. I all-ways tell folks, it’s not the name of the manufacture, not the name of the tool and neither is it the names of all those who use some certain brand….woodworking is a reflection of how your hands have come know the tool you are using, just as that tool must come to know your hands and then both of you can start to ‘work the wood’.

Hope I helped some here….but then what do I know….only my two cents….

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

I have several Japanese handsaws and they work great. Thin kerf and they cut on the pull. David Charlesworth has some good info about Japanese chisels in his book furnature making techniques.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

I haven’t tried any chisels or planes yet, but someday (mostly due to price at this point). I own a couple different pull saws, and you won’t be able to pry those out of my cold dead hands! I find they are quite useful and quick, in so many applications that western saws and common power tools just aren’t up to. Probably among the most used tools in my toolbox (after my marking knife)

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

I having never had much success with English pattern saws (push stroke), dearly love Japanese saws. In a pinch, I use a coping frame with the blade installed teeth forward for the Japanese effect. I have no planes, but I like the fact that the Japanese chisels are hand forged and laminated, and the hollowed backs make lapping the back easier.
My 3mm mortising chisel is a go to for tiny spots. Love ‘em!

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Wow, thanks for all the responses. Sounds like the saws are indespensible, Would love to hear more if anyone has input. I thank you Frank for your well thought out response. My back certainly is a consideration. No matter how much I continue to kid myself, it just ain’t working like it used to. Ha. But, the quality of the tools certainly is something to take notice of, even if I don’t use them for cost or other reasons.

I was given a set of Tasai Chisels about 10 years ago and have acquired a pair of planes.

In all honesty, I’ve not been able to tune the planes so that they are useful. It took me many years to properly tune a western style plane; I do believe that a high level of commitment would be required for the Japanese planes to be useful. I am using these two planes to adorn a small display in my shop, so they look really cool there.

The chisels are top notch. If I compare sharpening to its western counterpart, these chisels are easier to sharpen, and hold an edge better.

-- Nicky