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Forum topic by ja6ke posted 09-01-2014 10:37 PM 939 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ja6ke

49 posts in 1037 days


09-01-2014 10:37 PM

I find myself in need of a new DC as my old grizz ate the impeller. I have read through the Bill Pentz web site and think I have narrowed my options.

Given my budget, I am considering either the 3HP Grizz G1030Z2P or the 2HP PSI DC2000BCFS. Here is my thinking, please straighten me out or flat out tell me I am wrong.

In either case I don’t think I can get to true fine particle collection for <= $500. I have some existing 4” pipe sufficient to get to most of my machines but getting enough 6 or 7” pipe would seem out of reach. I think I will go with one of the above two and rely on an older air filter plus cobble together a second more powerful air filter from CL scraps.

The Grizz would allow me to slowly replace with 7” trunk as funds become available but it looks like the PSI is possibly significantly quieter , has a steel impeller and has the filter. (I can’t actually find db rating for the grizz with leads me to believe it is bad since other grizz have it listed on the web site) In either case I would look to eventually go to wynn nano or similar. It seems like the grizz would allow me to evolve over time to a system that gets closer to find collection so that “potential” is probably over influencing my decision.

Of course I keep scanning CL in hopes someone sells a nice system at a ridiculous price.

Thanks


11 replies so far

View ducky911's profile

ducky911

237 posts in 2255 days


#1 posted 09-01-2014 11:18 PM

The G0548ZP 2HP Canister Dust Collector with Aluminum Impeller is more compairable to the Penn state DC you are looking at.

Though I like the idea of the 3hp, the filters you are choosing with it should not be in the shop. Of course it all about budget and piping can cost about half of a dust collection project. Grizzly makes a 3hp with better filters.

I had the above 2hp dc for years untill I upgraded to a Clear Vue. Sold it in one day on craigs list for $200.

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ja6ke

49 posts in 1037 days


#2 posted 09-02-2014 01:02 AM

Yea, I started looking at PSI and then noticed the much bigger grizz for the same prices essentially. The bags are junk imo and would need replacing first. In a way I am kind of glad the old one expired. I had the standard bag on that an am horrified at what that must have been spewing into the shop. I did considered the 3hp grizz with filters but that seemed like throwing extra money away if I was aiming to replace them with wynn as soon as possible.

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Manitario

2402 posts in 2349 days


#3 posted 09-02-2014 05:07 AM

realistically neither of those machines would support 7” pipe. They both have essentially the same impeller size however the 3hp will give you a bit better performance however the 2.5 micron bags will do a great job at filling your lungs with the dust you’re trying to capture.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

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English

517 posts in 943 days


#4 posted 09-02-2014 12:43 PM

Don’t rely too much on the PSI sound spec. They must run those tests in the middle of an open factory with no walls or ceiling close to the machine. I have the 2.5 hp PSI cyclone. Spec said 74 DB, out of the box it was at 92 db. It took a lot of work to get it back into the 70’s.

-- John, Suffolk Virgina

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buildingmonkey

242 posts in 1013 days


#5 posted 09-03-2014 02:50 AM

I’d prefer a 3hp dust collector. Gets your cfm ’s up. Check impeller size. Be nice to have 14.5 or larger. Have read you can get bags that filter down to 1 micron. 3hp is big enough to add a cyclone separator and stlll have enough cfm’s to work a good system.

-- Jim from Kansas

View exelectrician's profile

exelectrician

2327 posts in 1893 days


#6 posted 09-03-2014 04:00 AM

Put the filter outside, that way NO dust gets inside, no filter on the market is this effective. Zero dust IN your shop.
The only downside to this setup is, when you run the system you pull clean cold air in from outside.
I put on layers of clothing to suit the season. Dust is my enemy, and I win!!

-- Love thy neighbour as thyself

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ja6ke

49 posts in 1037 days


#7 posted 09-03-2014 03:05 PM

Wow, tons of information out there and the more I dig in the less I seem to know. Based on the feedback (thanks all) and the additional reading/pondering I seem to have confirmed (at least in my head) that effective Fine Dust collection is not possible in the sub $500 category (1).

The additional reading and thinking has helped to further refine the goal. I think I can stay under $500 by using using a good mask in addition to whatever Chip collection I get but this means the shop becomes a place where my kids can’t join me. At that point I start to seriously ponder dumping all my equipment and going back to golf.

So… beg the CFO for a doubling of my budget? Sell a kidney? Really stuck trying to decide a course of action…..

I recognize the possibility of externally venting some affordable single stage (assuming I can get enough CFM to pull fines), do it yourself pipes, lots of work to increase capture at the tools and some build it yourself air filter but I am a bit concerned that the war on dust might become a full time job and the only thing I ever work on.

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MrRon

3926 posts in 2709 days


#8 posted 09-03-2014 09:44 PM

Fine dust collection is possible <$500 if you duct the exhaust directly outdoors without filters. One way you can solve the problem of exhausting heated air is to place a small electric space heater in line with an air intake opening through the shop wall. Electrically, you can use relays to turn on/off the heater when the DC is running. This is known as the balanced air system, used on ships and places where air temperature and flow has to be controlled. It’s a bit more expensive. I just don’t like filters because they have to be replaced and canister filters are costly. Think about how a filter works. If the filtering media is fine enough to block 1 micron particles, then larger particles, say 5-10 microns will also be stopped, but will start to block the air flow quickly. Filters go down in efficiency as soon as you start using them. As efficiency drops, air flow also drops.

View crank49's profile

crank49

3981 posts in 2437 days


#9 posted 09-04-2014 01:15 AM

HF 2HP $170 with coupon from any woodworking magazine.

Wynn Environmental 35a cartridge filter. About $160.
10 times the surface area of the original bag, 0.5 micron particle capture instead of 5.0 micron.

30 gallon trash can with two duct connectors, about $30. This goes near the source of dust to catch chips and debris before it goes to the fan. Also much easier to empty than the plastic bag on the collector.

This system can handle a 5” duct just fine.

$170 + $160 + $30 = $360.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

View ja6ke's profile

ja6ke

49 posts in 1037 days


#10 posted 09-04-2014 02:58 AM

Michael,

ok now it is my head spinning… I have read so much stuff but the one thing that stuck out was 1000cfm for fine dust collection. Are you saying a 2hp single stage will get me there if I have 5” duct?
v/r
jake

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crank49

3981 posts in 2437 days


#11 posted 09-04-2014 03:56 PM

The CFM is a voulme measurement..
The volume of air has less to do with what type of dust gets collected than the velocity at which the air is moving.

Example: An enclosed router base can be purged of all dust and chips with 50 CFM; easily. But, the key is getting the velocity of the air coming across the bit flowing faster than the bit is trying to project the dust and chips out. It takes flow velocity and a well designed enclosure to make this work. You could build a big shroud around the router table with a 4 ft bt 4 ft opening and you would need 6400 CFM to do the same job. It’s all in the design of the capture hoods.

In general I would rather have to collect fine dust than coarse dust if my air volume were limited. It takes less flow to capture and convey light fine dust than it does heavy dense dust. Air movement across a dust generating source needs to be between 50 to 1000 FPM depending on the density of the dust and the velocity of the dust. Every type dust has what is called the “Capture Velocity” which is the minimum flow rate that will keep the dust in suspension and convey it.

Imagine throwing ping pong balls into a strong head wind. The balls are most likely going to come right back at you. Now throw steel balls of the same diameter into the same wind. They are most likely going to go a long distance and eventually fall to the ground and sit there. The capture velocity of ping pobg balls is way liwer than steel balls.

I’m just saying there is no blanket statement of an air volume that is needed to catch fine dust. Depends on the design of the hood and the capture velocity of the dust.

ja6ke, I’m just saying the HF collector can be modified to capture fine dust just as well ans any other collector. I have one and it does a nice job for me, but I also know its limitations. I have to be more diligent in my hood design. Some dust sources, the above mentioned router for instance, won’t work with any dust collector at all because it takes over 100 inches of static pressure to generate the needed velocity. Takes a vacuum to get that kind of pressure.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

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