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carbide cutters or scrapers?

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Forum topic by REO posted 08-31-2014 06:43 PM 1107 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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REO

889 posts in 1533 days


08-31-2014 06:43 PM

Hi, I have been turning a few years now. I have used carbide for wood turning many years. I have looked at many of the tools out there that are available from inexpensive to the most outrageous costing. For the most part in videos I see that the inserts used are used more like a scraper and in some cases a “shear scraper” The inserts I use are ground for cutting aluminum with no hone or flat spot at the cutting edge. The first carbide tool I used was an insert straight off the lathe for cutting steel and took quite a lot of tool pressure to get it to cut and then the cut was rough so I did some homework and found that the cutting edge of the tool was micro honed to flat on the edge so that it wouldn’t chip the lip of the tool in use. The cutters for aluminum were sharpened to a sharp edge with no hone and cut smooth and clean. Now people are talking about sharpening the tools bu running them flat on the top to sharpen. This means that they are in fact using them as a scraper not a cutter as there is no chip relief on the cutting edge. No wonder so many people get discouraged with the performance of carbide for turning wood.


13 replies so far

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

1879 posts in 1594 days


#1 posted 08-31-2014 08:02 PM

Big selling point for carbide tip tools no need to sharpening just replace the cutter when dull. What gets your attention is a new cutter can cost over $30 with shipping. (CiO/ Round Carbide cutter #4400 $17.99 + $12.95 shipping). Found this info at EasyWoodtools.com.

Your square and almost square cutter are for roughing designed for scrapping mode. Some of the round finishing cutter leave a rough surface unless angle the tool into shear scrapping mode.

Are carbide tip tool easier & faster than conventional turning tools? To me depends upon what your turning (wood species, dry or wet wood and skill level.) At the end of the day cannot turn with dull tools. Only takes me seconds at the grinder to touch up and edge with traditional turning tools. Might take me more time rotating a cutter or replacing one.

Bottom line not enough info at when sites selling carbide cutters, buying and trying gets expensive even if find less expensive vendors.

I and folks with more experience than I have feel carbide tools great scrapping tools and right carbide disc make good shear scrappers in some applications but nt all.

-- Bill

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3122 days


#2 posted 08-31-2014 10:10 PM

I have a couple of carbide tools … only use them for roughing. More often that not, I use an 18mm radius (square) cutter.

Once I get some wood hogged off, the carbides go back in the drawer and I reach for the HSS tools.

I just don’t share other turners’ infatuation with carbide tools. I know many think they are the best thing since sliced bread, but I can get a much better cut with HSS tools.

The most common reason I hear for people opting for carbide tools is the lack of any need for sharpening. It took me a while to get the hang of sharpening, but I am convinced that anyone can learn to do it.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Rick M's profile (online now)

Rick M

7901 posts in 1839 days


#3 posted 08-31-2014 10:47 PM

I’m not familiar with carbide cutters for aluminum. I googled it but there are many different types. Can you post a pic REO?

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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Wildwood

1879 posts in 1594 days


#4 posted 08-31-2014 10:48 PM

Pen turners that turn a lot of antler, corian, horn, tru-stone, and dense exotic woods love their carbide cutter tools until they dull.

Starting to see a lot of talk on sharpening carbide cutters on message boards. Instruction that came with my Sorby carbide shear (external/ internal) scrapers recommends using diamond card file. I am like lot of folks that tried sharpening them, looking for less expensive replace ments.

external
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=108811C&Category_Code=tools-srby-shear

internal
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=108810C&Category_Code=tools-srby-shear

I actually get better results shear scraping with turning tools (bedan, gouge & skew) or regualar scrapers.

-- Bill

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REO

889 posts in 1533 days


#5 posted 09-01-2014 12:01 AM

I have never had any of the “wood turning” carbide inserts in my hand to look at. On ebay I have purchased round and diamond cutters. The last I purchased was about four years ago and I got two 10 packs of 10 3/8” dia cutters for twenty five dollars. If you do a search for carbide insert nomenclature you will find information on Many combinations of numbers and letters that correspond to the faces of the insert. one of them is the edge prep. this can vary from “sharp” to a sizable hone or flat spot on the edge. Sharp is used for metals like aluminum because if you used a “hone” on the cutting edge it would smear the aluminum instead of cut it off. the edge itself is sharp but there is no chip relief. this can be a good thing for learners as it limits dig in as does the relief angle of the outside of the cutter. the more the relief and the chip breaker the easier it is to feed but it is also easier for catches to happen and takes more control. just the same as using a gouge that is sharpened to a different bevel angle. For the most part everyone accepts what “everyone else” uses for bevel angle but in some cases more or less of an angle can be beneficial such as the diameter of the turning, how fast it is turning and whether there is an interrupted cut. Look over the nomenclature list and see if you can determine what insert you actually have.

View FancyShoes's profile

FancyShoes

506 posts in 823 days


#6 posted 09-01-2014 01:16 AM

I have come across a few videos on youtube of people turning giant logs or stumps, but have yet to find a lathe that looks like the ones they use. all the ones I see for sale seem to do only small stuff. What are the bigger ones?

I dont mean to hijack your thread, just a quick question

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3122 days


#7 posted 09-01-2014 01:19 AM


I have come across a few videos on youtube of people turning giant logs or stumps, but have yet to find a lathe that looks like the ones they use. all the ones I see for sale seem to do only small stuff. What are the bigger ones?

I dont mean to hijack your thread, just a quick question

- FancyShoes

Suggest you start your own thread.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

1879 posts in 1594 days


#8 posted 09-01-2014 11:07 AM

First man to introduce woodturners to carbide tools any way nice read & video on scraping and finish turning with carbide tools and prices not bad.

http://www.thingswestern.com/3.html

-- Bill

View REO's profile

REO

889 posts in 1533 days


#9 posted 09-01-2014 01:07 PM

he may have introduced turners to carbide but we were using them in the sixties. I dont sell a line of tools or machines. 15.00 a pop for a replacement cutter is pretty steep. Captain Eddie knocks that price to shreds!

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4448 posts in 3420 days


#10 posted 09-01-2014 01:58 PM

Even Capt. Eddie will tell ya that there are places for carbide use as well as not.
REO is correct about Eddie’s prices and quality.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

825 posts in 1189 days


#11 posted 09-01-2014 03:14 PM



First man to introduce woodturners to carbide tools any way nice read & video on scraping and finish turning with carbide tools and prices not bad.

http://www.thingswestern.com/3.html

- Wildwood

I watched the video on that site. Had to wear my earplugs…. I was impressed by his lathe… ........ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson)

View REO's profile

REO

889 posts in 1533 days


#12 posted 09-01-2014 05:11 PM

here I use carbide:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwTwU9FNb4M&list=UUtMgLoQKJ43jvd8nPfjACKA

here I use tool steel:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PycgbO4tK0&list=UUtMgLoQKJ43jvd8nPfjACKA

View Rick M's profile (online now)

Rick M

7901 posts in 1839 days


#13 posted 09-01-2014 06:20 PM

I’ve ordered from this guy:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291038225206
his website:
http://azcarbide.com/

Captn Eddie is a tad cheaper but I wanted a variety in small quantities. I’ve been very satisfied with these cutters.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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