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Stanley 271 Counterfeit

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Forum topic by kb9jlo posted 08-24-2014 06:22 PM 636 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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kb9jlo

12 posts in 135 days


08-24-2014 06:22 PM

I purchased a Stanley 271, well I thought it was, off eBay. It was obviously dirty and kind of “yellowish” looking in the two photos. Which some older nickel plated dirty Stanley tools get that yellow tinge to them.

Well, it came today and it’s bronze, not nickel plated cast iron. And the markings are very vague and hard to make out (like a copy would be). You can just barely make out the 271 and the USA… You can tell that the Stanley logo is there but only by looking at a photo of a “real” 271. The “screws” are slotted head screws and were extremely difficult to get out. Not thumb screws as they should be. There were (2) 1/4” blades and one is wore to nothing. I believe the dirt is really casting sand. It’s on there like concrete (like casting sand would be). I don’t even think it’s all that old.

I’m not a collector, I only want it to use it. I didn’t give a lot for it (cheaper than a St. James Bay copy, but not much) but it was advertised as a Stanley 271. Should I keep it or file a case with eBay and get my money back. I wish I’d only given about half of what I gave for it… I am, as a good eBay’er, talking with the seller.

Dan Reynolds
Central IL
<><

-- Dan -- KB9JLO <><


16 replies so far

View JuniorJoiner's profile

JuniorJoiner

448 posts in 2130 days


#1 posted 08-24-2014 06:39 PM

does it function? I am all about results, and i do have a plane that is a forgery, but i find it performs better than then real thing. Plus, not being genuine, there is no worries about destroying it’s value by modifying the tool to suit your needs. So adding better thumbscrews or buying a fresh blade does not detract from it’s collect-ability.
Casting bronze is not cheap, so i have to believe whomever made it, it was not to deceive, but to improve upon.
so, try it, see if it works.

-- Junior -Quality is never an accident-it is the reward for the effort involved.

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2959 posts in 976 days


#2 posted 08-24-2014 06:44 PM

Sounds like a recondition job. I’d try to get the money back if it’s a dud when you clean it an use it. I try to stay with only original Stanley. I have them from 4 to 9 in excellent shape. You can get a vintage 1940’s plane at antique stores. Cost from $20 to $40 but you have to clean and sharpen first.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

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Don W

15245 posts in 1257 days


#3 posted 08-24-2014 06:45 PM

First I’d just contact the seller and see what they say. They may have no idea it wasn’t real. They may cut you a deal.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View kb9jlo's profile

kb9jlo

12 posts in 135 days


#4 posted 08-24-2014 07:27 PM

The seller did contact me and offered to refund my money if I returned it. I decided against it.

I already have a thumbscrew made and I sanded down the sole. It was flat and square with the cutter. He told me it was old – that his father-in-law’s grandfather used it. Of course that doesn’t stop it from being counterfeit but I want it to use not collect. So, that’s why I decided to keep it. And now it has kind of a history.

I’m not a hand tool fanatic but I want to start using hand tools. I’ve been collecting stuff for years and years. I have an old #5 that needs rebuilt, a #8 jointer with corrugated sole that needs cleaned up good.
I’ve recently eBay’d a pretty decent #45, #75.
I bought a Chinese spokeshave and once you flatten the sole (and get the paint off the sole) it seems to be pretty darn good. I’ve also bought all the HF planes. I know they’re not great but they’ll be good enough for me most likely. And if the #4 copy doesn’t work great I’ll turn it into a scrub plane.
I just want to make a few small things, a tool box or two, some keepsakes and work with my hands a little.

Thanks for the comments. I’ve been lurking here for a couple of years now.

-- Dan -- KB9JLO <><

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RussellAP

2959 posts in 976 days


#5 posted 08-24-2014 07:30 PM

Years ago, hardware stores used Stanley planes slightly altered as their ‘in store’ brand. This is likely one of those.
For further research take some photos and ask DonW about it. He’s our resident plane expert.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View Don W's profile

Don W

15245 posts in 1257 days


#6 posted 08-24-2014 07:36 PM

I’ve seen a lot of cast router planes, many that looked just like a Stanley (it’s possible Stanley stole the design from somebody else as well) but I’ve never seen one with a Stanley logo.

Would you post some pictures? I’d like to see it.

I’ve never really figured out how one goes about finding out if a plane is a prototype, but I see a lot of them listed in antique books.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View kb9jlo's profile

kb9jlo

12 posts in 135 days


#7 posted 08-24-2014 07:43 PM

Don thanks for asking! I’ve seen your posts on other planes. I have a #45 that I just love. It’s a weird model too. An early 1900’s in between model. But I won’t change the thread here on that.
I honestly don’t think the guy knew it wasn’t real. I’ll warn you – you have to use your imagination to “see” the logo, 271, Made In, and USA. But they’re there. I think someone just decided to make some copies.
I cleaned it up some today. And made the thumbscrew fit. I plan to put a stop collar on the bit to control the depth. It’s kind a rough looking but like I said the cutter is square to the base. And the base if pretty flat so what else do I need. I’m planning on making me a larger router out of wood ($5 router plane plans).

-- Dan -- KB9JLO <><

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

3675 posts in 2424 days


#8 posted 08-24-2014 08:38 PM

You can file an eBay claim; ”Item significantly not as advertised.”
You have 45 days from receipt to file this.
Write factual info, do not rant or call names.
You should be refunded in full and not penalized for shipping expense either way.
that is one ugly copy, looks like somebody’s garage foundry work.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

10054 posts in 1308 days


#9 posted 08-24-2014 08:45 PM

I’d return it without hesitation. You want a #271, get a #271, not that glob. Kinda harsh, I release, but don’t settle. You were mislead, and that fact shouldn’t be allowed to stand. My .02

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

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kb9jlo

12 posts in 135 days


#10 posted 08-24-2014 08:46 PM



that is one ugly copy, looks like somebody s garage foundry work.

- poopiekat

I agree but I’ve kind of gotten attached to it. It works fine so far. It’s just a hunk of bronze and it’s square so I think I’ll keep it. It sure has a story anyway. Plus, it sort of matches me and my abilities! :-)

-- Dan -- KB9JLO <><

View Don W's profile

Don W

15245 posts in 1257 days


#11 posted 08-24-2014 09:54 PM

that looks like something I’d make ;-)

It’s different and unique, and definitely not a prototype.

I can’t believe somebody sold it as a Stanley!

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Loren's profile

Loren

7739 posts in 2338 days


#12 posted 08-24-2014 10:02 PM

I doubt it’s a forgery strictly speaking.

Guys who worked in pattern shops would often make
planes from Stanley castings. That may be why
it’s bronze.

Personally I think it’s kind of cool to get one of
those craftsman made copies.

They are usually just a little smaller than the
originals owing to shrinkage. The originals
shrunk too but they were made from larger
wood patterns.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View kb9jlo's profile

kb9jlo

12 posts in 135 days


#13 posted 08-24-2014 10:25 PM

Yeah it’s so ugly I kind of like it. I also got a good deal on a small veritas on eBay today. It is an addiction.

-- Dan -- KB9JLO <><

View upchuck's profile

upchuck

247 posts in 355 days


#14 posted 08-24-2014 10:46 PM

I agree with Loren. I think because of it’s simplicity that the #271 is the most directly copied of the Stanley planes. Instead of using a wooden pattern for the mold the founder/copier/patternmaker just used an original #271. There is always some shrinkage of the casting from whatever pattern is used and bronze/brass shrinks at a different % than cast iron. If you get a chance to hold yours up to an original #271 I think that you will see/feel a few percentages difference in size.
What to do about it is strictly your choice.

View DocBailey's profile

DocBailey

391 posts in 1050 days


#15 posted 08-25-2014 12:06 AM

Loren has the most probable explanation

In my years of tool collecting I have encountered many patternmaker copies of mass-manufactured tools.
The most common examples being No. 80 scrapers and 71 and 71 1/2 routers.

Here is an all aluminum No. 80—never made by Stanley.

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