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update on Ridgid r4512 trunnion replacements

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Forum topic by horseman308 posted 08-07-2014 01:28 AM 1012 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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horseman308

9 posts in 114 days


08-07-2014 01:28 AM

I read through this thread http://lumberjocks.com/topics/57129 yesterday while trying to research any recent updates on the r4512 trunnion/blade shift issue.

I wondered if anyone (BeeFarmer in particular) could chime in about whether they’ve got any updates with that saw using the newer, beefier trunnion than was originally put on those saws. Any problems keeping alignment over time?


15 replies so far

View Mark Shymanski's profile

Mark Shymanski

5115 posts in 2437 days


#1 posted 08-10-2014 02:39 AM

Does your saw have or need the trunions replaced?

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

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horseman308

9 posts in 114 days


#2 posted 08-12-2014 11:21 PM

No, it’s not that. I haven’t bought one yet. In doing my research, that’s the big problem with that particular saw, and it seems that if you get a saw without the alignment/trunnion issue then it’s a fantastic value.

So, I was just wondering if (before I take the gamble) anyone had any recent updates about recent production saws that might have the thicker/beefier trunnion that BeeFarmer mentioned and whether it has held alignment or otherwise fixed the problem.

View paxorion's profile

paxorion

777 posts in 770 days


#3 posted 08-13-2014 12:12 AM

Have you taken a look at the Delta 36-725 from Lowes? Similar price point, but so far it seems to be better received.

-- paxorion

View toolie's profile

toolie

1770 posts in 1353 days


#4 posted 08-13-2014 03:02 AM

before I take the gamble

what gamble. it can be returned , no questions asked, within the first 90 days of ownership. it weighs< 300 lbs, so moving it isn’t an impossible feat of superhuman strength. what’s the big deal?

Have you taken a look at the Delta 36-725 from Lowes?

there’’s a lengthy thread on LJ about that new delta saw, but the fence on one i saw in a lowes the plate that held the clamping handle FELL off the fence at the welds. the welding job wasn’t impressive.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Crank50's profile

Crank50

107 posts in 301 days


#5 posted 08-13-2014 04:41 PM

I have read miles of threads on that new Delta and looked at the parts list and drawings in the manual.
I know its an induction motor because it has a starting capacitor, but it sure is not a standard NEMA motor.
I think you would only be able to buy a replacement from Delta. It’s made like a universal motor with a square, cast aluminum housing.
That would be a negative vote from me.

I do have a Craftsman 21833, which is the same saw as the R4512 from Ridgid.
My saw has the alignment issue. Pain in the ARSE.
I would consider replacing the trunnion assembly if I knew for sure what to buy.
And for the cost of this saw it would be a hell of a bargain if it didn’t have the flaw.
But, they really pissed me off by not ever admitting the saws were defective in the first place.
There should have been a recall but they knew they could not fix them, only replace them so they just left half their customers hanging out on a limb.
That speaks volumes about what their warranty and ethics are worth, IMHO.

View mramseyISU's profile

mramseyISU

91 posts in 270 days


#6 posted 08-13-2014 09:59 PM

I’ve got one of those saws. It was a floor model I bought a couple years ago so I’m sure the greatest care wasn’t taken in assembling it. What I can tell you about the alignment is I picked up one of those woodpeckers saw aligment tools and set the blade within .003 of the miter slot and forgot about it for about 10 months. I found this website and started reading up on all the issues people have had so I decided to check my alignment. The saw was reading in at .005 between the blade and the slot. That’s pretty darn good in my opinion for a $500 saw sure if I’d dropped a couple grand on a unisaw I’d want it dead nuts all the time but I don’t need anything that good. I really like my saw even though I know people have trouble with it.

-- Trust me I'm an engineer.

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crank49

3481 posts in 1696 days


#7 posted 08-13-2014 10:06 PM

In fact, I’d like to know why Ridgid or Craftsman could not be held liable in a class action lawsuit for the way they just continued to dump these defective machines onto the market and deny there is a problem.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

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mramseyISU

91 posts in 270 days


#8 posted 08-14-2014 04:48 PM

Mostly because from a legal definition it isn’t defective. This is advertised as a saw for cutting wood. Nowhere in the packaging does it say that the saw is held to certain tolerances nor does it say that the owner will be able to hold certain tolerances. The only way you could expect a lawsuit to hold up in court would be to either demonstate that there is a safety issue with it that is unusual for that type of product (ie you can’t sue a knife company because you cut yourself chopping a potato) or that the product claims to hold accuracy up to a certain level. You’ll see the accuracy thing pretty commonly on machining centers and also on measurement devises. I’ve got this saw and the manual and nowhere in the literature does it say that you’re going to be able to make cuts accurate to XXX. My day job is in product development and knowing how that works somebody with the title of product manager put together a spec that probably states accuracy to a certain level at a cost target aiming for a profit margin of about 30%. That spec and cost target is probably based on some sort of market research and got ranked in order of importance. What happened after that is the product engineer or manufacturing engineer looked at the spec and said that if you hold a tolernace of X it’ll cost this much, if you give me a little more tolerance I can save you a little money. After going through and getting the first pass at the design done I’m guessing the cost was over the target and like things often do the development team had to go back and find ways to hit their target. Safety things generally don’t get touched but opening up a tolerance by .005-.010 when it doesn’t effect assembly happen all the time. I’m not trying do defend them all I’m saying is when you have a cost target (and everything does) you have to make comprimises in performance or quality and at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

-- Trust me I'm an engineer.

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Crank50

107 posts in 301 days


#9 posted 08-14-2014 08:17 PM

Oh I certainly understand the product development process and advertizing chicanery involved, but this does not change my opinion about the overall quality of this or any other Ridgid power tool.

And the “you get what you pay for” comment is so true. But why is it so damn hard to get other people to see this.
It’s like,”oh I know some people said this saw is a POS and hey, what’s the problem if you can return it in 90 days, it only fills the back end of a pickup truck and only weighs 300 lbs. If you get a good one it’s a real bargain.” Really?

View jonah's profile

jonah

453 posts in 2023 days


#10 posted 08-14-2014 09:22 PM

The blade shift is pretty obviously a serious safety issue. If it shifts towards the fence at the rear of the blade, for example, it will pinch workpieces between the blade and fence and cause kickback.

Honestly, if someone was seriously injured or killed as a result of the blade shift issue, with all the information about it that’s out there, Ridgid would most likely lose the resulting lawsuit. As they should.

I love my TS3650 and the rest of my Ridgid tools, but this product is just shoddy. They should have recalled them two years ago.

View paxorion's profile

paxorion

777 posts in 770 days


#11 posted 08-14-2014 10:39 PM

I look forward to the day they replace this iteration of the cast iron saw.

-- paxorion

View crank49's profile

crank49

3481 posts in 1696 days


#12 posted 08-15-2014 12:59 AM



I love my TS3650 and the rest of my Ridgid tools, but this product is just shoddy. They should have recalled them two years ago.
- jonah

Why two years ago?
I have been struggling with this POS for over 5 years.
Well, in all honesty, my Craftsman 21833 was on the market about 9 months before Ridgid started selling them.
But still, there was plenty of evidence that the machine was defective and it absolutely is a safety hazard.
And, you know what, there was not one single warning anywhere on this thing advising me that I should avoid cutting anything using the fence when the blade alignment shifts.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Matt's profile

Matt

81 posts in 143 days


#13 posted 08-15-2014 01:52 AM

I just bought one of these saws. No alignment issues for me. The beefarmer thread thru me for a loop too. I have found no other thread on the web indicating anyone will just send out a trunnion. Or any other part. He magically got them to do it. Or he bought it.

Here is a tip if you buy the saw: dont follow the assembly instructions. Get the main saw part out and on bench, install a blade and align it. Run it up and down. Check the alignment. If bad return it, otherwise build it. Don’t wait till the end to find out cause it takes 4 hours to put together. Wasting that time is way worse than having to bring it back,

I worried alot over mine when I purchased it, but I’m very happy with it now.

-- I do this for fun.

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Matt

81 posts in 143 days


#14 posted 08-15-2014 01:55 AM

I just now looked at the delta. I have to say that with all the issues on the ridgid I would have gone for the delta had I known it existed, just for piece of mind in buying it. In the end it doesn’t matter for me.

-- I do this for fun.

View matt352's profile

matt352

2 posts in 106 days


#15 posted 08-15-2014 02:30 AM

I picked up the Craftsman version in April and read everything I could find and it looks to me like the problems have been resolved at the factory. My saw has an updated minor model # (218331), the updated stamp on the trunnion, and no alignment issues. (You do need to back out a quarter turn after fully raising the blade.)

I agree w/toolie, there’s no risk, you can check it and return it if you get a bad one.

No regrets here, it’s a nice saw.

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