LumberJocks

Toy box lid....question for those with experience

  • Advertise with us

« back to Designing Woodworking Projects forum

Forum topic by Razorburne posted 08-05-2014 03:28 AM 1242 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Razorburne's profile

Razorburne

41 posts in 886 days


08-05-2014 03:28 AM

Hey guys. I’m in the process of building a toy box for my little girl – so far I have the entire bottom portion completed and the project is going along very well. The lid is my next step. It will be made out of dimensional pine boards that I will join together with pocket hole joinery on the underside and fill in with flush-cut pine plugs. I planned on adding 2-3 cleats on the underside of the lid for added strength/support.

So the first question: is there anything special I should know about adding the cleats, or is it as simple as countersink/boring holes and attaching the cleats?

2nd question: I plan on using a piano hinge and two spring-loaded lid supports to ensure no little fingers get pinched/crushed by a falling lid. The lid supports come in different pound ratings which you calculate to determine what size you need. Part of the calculation requires you know the weight of your lid. This might be a very stupid question, but without a scale in my home, how would I go about determining the weight of the lid? Is there a trick or do I really need to find a scale somewhere and weighing it?

Thanks for helping out a noob!


13 replies so far

View jmartel's profile

jmartel

6576 posts in 1617 days


#1 posted 08-05-2014 04:02 AM

Razorburne,

I’m building a blanket/hope chest right now, which is basically the same thing as a toy box. Just fancier. My plans that I’m following calls for screwing the cleats in with countersunk holes. No glue, as the wide panel top will expand and contract based on the seasons, and glue joints would break and cause problems.

As far as your second question, Pine’s density is 22-37 lbs/cubic feet. So to figure out your lid weight, you would calculate it like this. Assuming your measurements are in inches, you also need to convert to cubic feet by dividing by 1728 (12 to the third power):

Weight = Length x Width x thickness x Density/1728.

So, if your lid is 22”x45”x3/4”, then your weight would be 10-16 lbs depending on density. You then divide it by half the width in inches to find the rating needed. If it’s clear with no knots, I would assume closer to the lower end.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

View diverlloyd's profile

diverlloyd

1450 posts in 1324 days


#2 posted 08-05-2014 04:05 AM

You need to know what it is made out of and the square feet or square inches with the thickness. Then check on the net for pounds per sqft or sqin of the material. That’s how I calculate most of the metal sculptures I make. Or you could just wing it since the moisture content would need to be in the calculations to. I would just wing it. If you need something laying around that has a known weight for you to compare a US gallon of water is a tad over 8 1/3 pounds if memory serves me right which is less then a imperial gallon. Useless knowledge my not be so useless. Like I said I would just wing it close to what you think the weight is and I think most of the hinges have a little adjustment to them.

View diverlloyd's profile

diverlloyd

1450 posts in 1324 days


#3 posted 08-05-2014 04:06 AM

You beat me to it Martel

View jmartel's profile

jmartel

6576 posts in 1617 days


#4 posted 08-05-2014 04:22 AM

I’m an engineer. I do weight estimates for a living.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

View SuperCubber's profile

SuperCubber

875 posts in 1751 days


#5 posted 08-05-2014 08:17 AM

One thing to keep in mind, if you get the lid supports for a heavier weight, it will put some serious strain on the top, and may even break it. I had to return the first set I bought when I built my dayghter’s toy box, because I guessed at weight and figured, “bigger must be better.”

-- Joe | Spartanburg, SC | "To give anything less than your best is to sacrafice the gift." - Steve Prefontaine

View Razorburne's profile

Razorburne

41 posts in 886 days


#6 posted 08-05-2014 10:58 AM

Wow! Thanks for such quick responses you guys.

@ jmartel—> thanks for so much detail. That’s exactly the info I think I would need.
One further question: is there a general dimension used for a lid cleat (1×4, 2×2, etc)?

@super cubber—> thanks for the heads up on the lid supports. At first I thought bigger would be better but after second thought i realized 1. The lid may not close if the support is too strong relative to the lid weight and if it did close, it may only be under significant strain and cause problems as you suggested. That’s why I wanted to make sure to closely approximate the lid weight. That way I don’t overdue it with too strong if supports or underestimate and get something that will not hold.

View Razorburne's profile

Razorburne

41 posts in 886 days


#7 posted 08-05-2014 11:01 AM

I was planning on going with the lid supports from Rockler – not the real expensive torsion hinge and lid support in one, but rather the less expensive lid support and pair it with a piano hinge that would run the length of the entire piece

View jdh122's profile

jdh122

879 posts in 2284 days


#8 posted 08-05-2014 11:27 AM

Concerning the cleats: generally it’s not a good idea just to screw them to the top. The problem is that you then have wood in cross-grain orientation and as the top tries to expand and contract seasonally it won’t be able to because of the cleats and it can (will) crack eventually. You’re using pine, which is relatively stable, and depending on how wide the top is you might get away with it, but I wouldn’t try if it were me.
The solution is to drill elongated holes in the cleats (sort of a little slot) for the screws.

-- Jeremy, in the Acadian forests

View Jake's profile

Jake

850 posts in 1098 days


#9 posted 08-05-2014 11:49 AM

For a relatively short piece like you probably have I might not worry about elongating the holes – just because elongating holes by a 1/8 or 1/4 might be somewhat of a pain.

If it was me I would just make the holes 1/8 or 3/16 bigger than the screws (depending on your screw head size), so you will effectively have some play built in and with pine I would think that is enough.

-- Measure twice, cut once, cut again for good measure.

View Razorburne's profile

Razorburne

41 posts in 886 days


#10 posted 08-05-2014 01:48 PM

@Jake—> so you are saying to screw the cleats down tight but to make the countersink hole a tad bigger than I normally would?

View jmartel's profile

jmartel

6576 posts in 1617 days


#11 posted 08-05-2014 02:36 PM

Razorburne,

He’s saying that for the holes you are drilling into the cleats, make it a larger diameter than the screw. That way there’s some room for the screw to move around in there when the top expands and contracts.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

1471 posts in 2105 days


#12 posted 08-05-2014 02:47 PM

[edit – Sorry, he asked for those with experience. :) ]

View Razorburne's profile

Razorburne

41 posts in 886 days


#13 posted 08-05-2014 05:31 PM

Thanks everyone. I think I got it. I appreciate all of your help

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com